How to Set Soul-Aligned Boundaries in Everyday Moments with Suzanne Culberg

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:01):
Joy, hey, beautiful soul, welcome to spirit
speakeasy. I'm Joy Giovanni,joyful medium. I'm a working
psychic medium, energy healerand spiritual gifts mentor. This
podcast is like a seat at thetable in a secret club, but with
mediums, mystics and thespiritual luminaries of our
time. So come behind the velvetropes with me and see inside my

(00:24):
world as I chat insider stylewith profoundly gifted souls, we
go deep, share juicy stories,laugh a lot, and it wouldn't be
a speakeasy without greatinsider secrets and tips. You
might even learn that you havesome gifts of your own. So step
inside the spirit speakeasy.
Hey, beautiful soul. Welcome toanother episode of spirit

(00:46):
speakeasy. My guest this week iscalled the nope coach, like N,
O, P, E, nope, not having it.
Her name is Suzanne Colberg. Sheis a new friend from Sydney,
Australia, and she really opensup and has this amazing
conversation with us. I you'llhear me mention in the episode.

(01:06):
I've been on her newsletter fora little while now, and I really
love the way she so openlyshares and suggests and we
really get into it aroundboundaries, understanding, you
know, why they're so important,why it's important to start
understanding our own boundariesand taking responsibility when
possible, earlier inrelationships. But we also
really unfold boundaries withour kids, boundaries in small

(01:29):
ways, with friends, with giftgiving and receiving. The
difference between asserting aboundary or stating a boundary
and being rude, like we reallygo into it quite a bit. And I
just love this conversation. Icould have talked to her for
hours and really just continueto unfold this idea around
boundaries. I know a lot of usas sensitives, as empaths, as

(01:50):
intuitives, and just as humansouls, we tend to want to please
people and want to make otherpeople feel comfortable and
happy. And we really talk abouthow both things can be true at
the same time, we can want tonurture others and set things up
in a way that's going to feelwin win for everyone, but that
we get to have our feelings tooand be a priority as well. So

(02:12):
without further ado, I'm soexcited to welcome you into
spirit speakeasy and welcome youinto this conversation with
Suzanne Colberg, and of course,all of her wonderful links are
in the bio. Join me right nowfor this conversation with
Suzanne Kohlberg, the nopecoach. Hey, beautiful souls,
welcome back for another episodeof spirit speakeasy. Our guest

(02:35):
today is Suzanne Kohlberg. Sheis known as the nope coach who
helps over givers and peoplepleasers learn to set boundaries
and say no without feeling likea bitch or a mean person,
whatever you like in there.
Suzanne is known for being adirect AF and of course, for her
wacky T shirts. She lives inSydney, Australia with her

(02:56):
husband and two awesomechildren, and as you will soon
learn, she is a self proclaimedsweary fairy. Welcome in,
Suzanne, thanks for being herewith us today.
Thank you so much joy. I waslike, what t shirt do I have on
today? Intro, to unite, perfectseparately. So down the bottom,
it's likeintroverts unite separately. I
love it that is perfect for alot of our listeners and friends

(03:20):
of the pod. I would love it ifyou would just kind of start by
sharing a little bit of yourstory. You have such an
interesting, multi facetedbackground, I'm curious how you
got to be the nope coach. Butwhen people say that, it's like,
where do you want to stop?
Seriously,let's start with you were on
track at one point to be amedical physician?

(03:43):
Oh, okay, yes.
When I yeah, I went to medicalschool, and I knew in like the
first week that this wasn't forme. I think a lot of times
people stick at things for avery long time, but when you've
really asked them or reflectthey know, at the outset, like,

(04:05):
but I wasn't the no coach, thenI didn't stand my ground or
speak up for myself. And myparents were like, oh, but you
worked so hard to get in. Like,you know, just, just give it a
couple of years. Like, it willget better once you start seeing
patients, once you're out ofthis clinical, school, uni
setting, you know, it didn't getbetter, and at the time, it's
since changed, but you used todo it was a two degree program

(04:28):
here. So the end of the fourthyear, you get your Bachelor of
Medical Science, and then theend of your sixth year you get
the Bachelor of Medicine,Bachelor of Surgery. So I agreed
to stay for the four years.
That's quite a bit of hangingin. And
then one time I got to the endof the fourth year, my parents
like, it's only two more years.
You've already done four What'sthat? So I actually did fifth
year. So I stayed for one extrayear, and then I was done. And

(04:50):
everybody always fascinatespeople. They're like, but you
were so close, you only had ayear to go. And I was like,
Yeah, to be a doctor of nothinglike when you. Medical School,
yes, you have MD, yes, you havedoctor in front of your name,
but you need to do an internyear, and then residency, which
is a couple of years minimum,and then registrar, which is
usually up to 10 years. Soyou're looking at a decade

(05:12):
before you're like a physician,unless you become a general
practitioner. It's shorter. ButI didn't want to follow that
path, you know. But I was like,why am I here? So I think, you
know, technically, that was thebeginning of like, nope, nope,
I'm out. And I was just like, Idon't want to do this. And I
think sometimes people like, oh,but what about the time you've
spent? And then they have thissunk cost fallacy and whatever.

(05:34):
But yeah, you the money's beeninvested in going to this
school, and whatever the money'sdone, I can't get it back, and
the time is gone. Can't get thatback either, but continuing to
spend more time and more moneyand more energy trying to turn
around the Titanic when we knowthat ship sinking, yeah, not a
good use. So I actually hadn'tmade that connection, but great

(05:55):
question I probably was thebeginning of me going like, No,
this is not for me. It'ssuch a powerful lesson. And I
feel like so many people,whether it's medical school or
maybe a relationship that wefelt like we were supposed to be
in to follow our family'sexpectations, or a job that we
have time in and a field thatwe've been like trudging along
knowing somewhere deep insidemaybe it's not quite a fit. I

(06:17):
I've actually, you don't knowthis about me, but I've been
criticized quite a bit in mylife for jumping ship or being a
quitter, quote, unquote. Ialways look at it as counting my
losses sooner than later when Irealized something's like,
really not for me, but I justlove that you have this as part
of your experience. I think it'sso powerful. And saying like,

(06:38):
Hey, it's okay to, you know,take, take that ship and turn it
a different direction. I alsothink
it's fascinating when people areso quick to label people as
quitters or this or that, like,are you really a quitter? Or do
you have the strength to go? Idon't want to be in this space,
so I'm removing myself from it.
I think it takes so much morewherewithal to leave than it
does to hang out in somethingthat's not serving you

(07:02):
well. There's those layers offear and people pleasing and
expectation. And I lovingly callmyself a recovering people
pleaser. As you know, a lot ofus here are, and we recognize
some things in ourself thatwe're working on and creating
better boundaries around. But Idon't know about you, but for
me, it feels like sometimessomething will come in so
sneakily from the side and it'slike, oh, man, I didn't even

(07:24):
realize that I was doing that.
I've been loving yournewsletter, your weekly I think
it's more than, more than once aweek that you send out,
sometimes a little a littleblurb or a little writing about
your experience. And I just lovethat those are so honest and raw
and real. And one of the thingsI'm so drawn to about your work
is that it's not about achievingsome standard of perfection or

(07:44):
doing it right. It's about beinghuman and adjusting along the
way, right? Well,I don't know. I can't speak for
everyone, but from myobservations, the people who
have achieved that level ofperfection that we aspire to?
Are you usually miserable? Like,and then we can't understand it.

(08:05):
We're like, but you're rich, oryou're famous, or you're
successful, or you've made it,or whatever, like, you should
like, if I was that, and it'slike, but they're not. And I
think the level is big,honestly, it's like, actually, I
got this thing. I've reached thepinnacle, and it sucks. People
being honest about that, ratherthan talking it up into

(08:27):
something like I remember havingmy kids, and I said to my
parents, like, you didn't tellme how hard this would be. And
they're like, Oh, if we told youhow hard it be, you might not
have had them so funny, andit's, it's just a little bit
more honest, rather than becauseI think so many people get down
on themselves or second guessthemselves, or beat themselves
up because you think you're theonly one and you're not. It's

(08:49):
just people aren't talking aboutit in whatever it is, about how
hard it is,it's so true, either it's so
hard, or we realize once weachieve the thing or the
certificate or whatever it is,like, Oh, I'm still missing the
thing that I thought this wasgonna cover. I'm
still me. I've loved the wayI've met the man I've got the

(09:09):
kids I bought the house, and I'mnot suddenly magically self
confident and loving everysingle day, like there's still
work to do. Nobody told me this.
All the internet gurus told methat I just need to do this
stuff, and then I'd ride offinto the sunset. Like, where's
my sunset?
I know. Will you share the partof your story that I read about?

(09:31):
Sometimes we call it like a downin your knees. Moment, your
bathroom stall. Moment, I lovethis story. Do you
want me to share it, yeah, Iwould love it. Yeah.
Okay, so this, technically, isthe nope coach. Like, it's
funny, you try and come up withthat pivotal moment, or whatever
it is, and this is the one thatI came to, but the medical

(09:52):
school one might have also beenone. I think none of us have one
pivotal moment. We have a lot ofthem. You have a lot of the bits
that are just kind of likeknocking at your door, that. You
ignore. But so basically, I whenI had my oldest child, I met a
bunch of women who were alsohaving children, and we formed
like this, mum's group, and oneof them didn't have a car. And

(10:15):
when I was like, driving with mydaughter to wherever it was, I'd
see her pushing her son in thepram. I think you guys call it a
stroller, but anyway, yeah, andI was and a couple of times I'd
see her coming home from thesupermarket, like the grocery
store, with all the bags tiedaround the stroller. And I was
like, that must be so hard. So Isaid to her, Would you like me
to take you to the shop, likethe supermarket once a week when

(10:36):
I go and we can get ourgroceries? And she was like, oh
my god, I'd love that. And thatto me, like, that's being
generous. And I think a lot ofus people pleasers were like,
Oh, I'm not a people pleaser.
I'm just generous. So if you'redoing something anyway, I'm
going to the supermarket. Wouldyou like me to pick you up?
You're on the way. That'sgenerous. So once a week I pick
her up. She put her son's carseat in off. We go. When we buy
the groceries, put them in theboot. You guys are caught the

(10:58):
trunk. Her bags would be open.
My bags would be tied off. So weknew who's was, who was fun. It
was efficient. We had the besttime. Then what started to
happen was, like, in the middleof the week, she'd be like, Oh,
I've run out of nappies. Can youquickly run me to the shop? Or,
Oh, I've got to, you know, getthis. And that is not generous.

(11:20):
But once again, I didn't say no.
It was only one extra time. It'snot a big deal. Sure
you're building a relationshipwith this person, and there's
you're cultivating a friendshipa little bit. So I'm probably
lent you more to doing it andsaying yes, a
couple of times. It was twice aweek, then it become three times
a week, and then it became everyother day. And I think for us,

(11:41):
you know, recovered peoplepleasers, or people who are
still in people pleasing thing,it doesn't start the way that
you end up. And I think that'swhere a lot of us it's like,
Well, I never said no, or Inever did this. If I met this
person, and from day one, she'slike, every other day I want you
to run me all over the place.
No. It's so easy to say no then,but it's not how it starts. It
starts so insidiously. And thenher family, like we call

(12:04):
ourselves, I can't remember, butmost of us had family
interstate, so her family wascoming to visit. She's like, can
you pick them up from theairport? The airport's over an
hour from my house, and I didn'tthink to say no, they were
catching a flight that landedjust after 6am so here I am
driving an hour and, you know,all these little things. Then it
was her kids first birthdayparty. Can you take all the
stuff down to the park then,because the parents were here?

(12:27):
Oh, well, I can't. I'm going togo and hang out with them, so
then I'm washing up all theitems from her kids birthday
anyway. It got ridiculous. Itgot ridiculous, but in the back
of my head, there was a littlebit of resentment, if I'm being
honest, like, you know, but Inever said anything. And I think
this is a point too, like, Ididn't speak up. So one day,
we're at a mum's group meeting,hang out. I'm in the toilet, so

(12:48):
I'm in the bathroom stall, andshe's at the sink with another
friend, and the friend's like,do you want to come to whatever
this is? And then the friendslike, oh, actually, you don't
have a car, so sorry, you know?
And she's like, Oh no, Suzannewill take me. She's my little
bitch. And I'm sitting in stall,and I just feel like my chest

(13:09):
tighten and my shoulders sag,and I feel like, oh my gosh,
like she doesn't value me atall. She just called me her
little bitch. Like, I don'tthink I was mad as much as I was
hurt. Yeah, and I think you'resaying the truth hurts, like
that was the moment it I was andI didn't handle that in any way

(13:31):
the way I would now, like, it'sbeen many years, and I've worked
a lot on this, and now it's mycareer, but that friendship was
kaput, and yeah, it just, itreally, really hurt. And I
realized that in my bid to be agood friend, I was a doormat.
And they call people pleasers,sometimes exploding doormats,

(13:53):
like, you take it, you take it,you take it, until you don't
yeah. So yeah, that's kind ofhow that went down.
That, I mean, it's so many, it'sso multi layered, right? Because
it is hurtful, because youthought you had a different
friendship with this person thanclearly what their intention
was. And it's probably yourealizing, Oh, I've been being
manipulated to some degree here,but then I could feel in there

(14:14):
that evaluation too, of like,oh, well, I did say yes to these
things, and I did, like, Ididn't say no. So if someone is
hearing this and realizing like,Oh, I'm kind of doing that with,
you know, either another parentat school or someone in my
workplace, what do you feel likeare the first steps for someone
when they're identifying like,oh, yeah, I kind of am agreeing
to things that I don't reallywant to be agreeing to, and

(14:37):
maybe I am having poorboundaries for being taken
advantage of beforeI get to the first step. The one
thing I want to say is, if youare like me, and you kind of
blow up, or you kind of bring itup in a way that's not healthy
in the beginning, and that'sokay. You haven't got the skills
yet, sometimes the person willlaugh it off, and that's what
did happen. Like a few people, Ididn't get into this on my
website, and people havemessaged me and said, so what?

(14:58):
Happened, like, when you raisedit and she laughed it off and
she said, Oh, it was just ajoke. It wasn't a joke to me.
And I think sometimes people cankind of get around their shitty
behavior by like, Oh, it's justtrying to be funny. So it's
like, no, no, it's not funny toyou. So being able to speak up
and say, but to your point,like, when you notice, oh, gosh,

(15:19):
this is happening. The thingthat I do now always, if anyone
asks me for anything, exceptunless I have it right here,
like, if I'm holding my pan andjoy, you're like, can I borrow
your pen? You're sure, here yougo. Like, it's right here.
You're like, Suzanne, can youbake cakes for the stall? Can
you like, oh, recently, my kidsfooty team, they want me to be
the goal umpire. I'm like, Ican't think if anything worse,

(15:39):
like, what if I make the wrongcall? But any sort of request,
I'll get back to you. Like, Ineed to check my diary. Like,
never make a decision in themoment ever. I don't even do
this on a sales call. Like, youcan go into things on business
and people, like, if you makethe call now I'll give you. I
don't care if you give me. Idon't care what you give me. I
need to sleep on it. And, youknow, and just like, don't make

(16:03):
the decision, right? Then it'slike, yeah, I will get back to
you. I'll check my diary. Or ifyou know straight away that you
really don't want to do it, butyou kind of feel awkward about
saying no, you say somethingalong the lines of, I'm at
capacity this week. If you stillneed help with this. Come back
to me next week, or come back tome next month, or whenever, put
the ball back into their court.

(16:25):
Because a lot of the times, thepeople like this woman wanting
someone to go pick up herparents at the airport, or
wanting to pick up hergroceries, nappies,
prescription, whatever it is,they need that done urgently. So
when you kind of say, like, notright now, they're going to go
to the next sucker in line. Sothey're not going to come back
to you, because they need thisthing done. Stat. So basically,

(16:49):
by saying, Actually, not rightnow, I'm busy this week, come
back to me next week, orwhatever, then they're going to
move on to the next person. Youdon't really even need to have
any form of awkwardconversation. This
is such a good tip. This one hasworked for me for years, because
I feel like I get reallyanxious. Is typically my first
response. I do often quicklyknow if I could technically do

(17:12):
the thing or couldn't do thething. But I think for me, I
tend to want to say yes tothings, or want people to like
me or want to, you know, helpwith the thing. And I often in
the past, still, sometimes now,if I'm honest, will find myself
agreeing to things and then evenbefore the conversation is done,
I'm like, Oh, I don't I didn'twant to do that, or I wanted to

(17:35):
have that hour to myself, orwhatever it is. So I think it is
such an empowering tool to justsay, like, can you just pause
and say, Can I sleep on that? Orlet me get back to you tomorrow
about that, or whatever it is,just to give some spaciousness,
even if it's just to, like,exhale and evaluate, like, how
do you actually feel about thisrequest? Right?
And the next tip after you'vedone that, or if that one's not

(17:58):
open to you, so, like, with mydaughter's football team. Can
you be the goal umpire? I'drather die. It's kind of like,
that isn't the best use of myskills. Or, like, you know,
whatever it is, what else do youneed done? It's kind of like, is
there another job open? Andthey're like, oh, we need
somebody to cook the barbecuedown. I can do that. I can stand

(18:20):
there some sausages. That's notthat hard. But you know what I
mean, it's kind of like, or, ifthe school wants me to sell
chocolates or bake cakes orwhatever, what else do you need
done? Like, what other jobs arethere? Or like, whenever the
school asks me to sellchocolates, like fundraising,
let's, let's break this down.
The chocolates are $4 a box. Theschool maybe makes 50 cents.
They give me 50 boxes, sothey're going to get like, $25

(18:41):
we know that's going to be $200worth of chocolate in my house,
because I'm not going to let mykids door knock, and I can't
sell them to their friends,because their friends go to the
same school, so they have theirown chocolate. So I'm like,
let's just cut out the middleman. Here's 30 bucks donation to
the school. They're $5 ahead.
Everyone's happy. So I'm not outof $200 and 1000s of calories.

(19:01):
So it's kind of like, there isthere an alternate thing? So I
think, you know, sometimes,especially if there's a
friendship, like, say, forexample, you're like, Suzanne, I
want to go and see, I don'tknow, like, Downton Abbey or
something, and be like, oh joy.
Thank you so much for invitingme to the movies. I'm not really
into, like, period drama. Whatelse is there showing that you

(19:21):
want to see? It's like, I wantto spend time with you, or I'm
not really a movie buff. Whatelse could we do? Oh, do you
like bowling? Let's go. So Ithink sometimes we feel this
anxiousness is in like, Oh myGod. It's this or nothing, and
then this level of honesty. Solike, or if you invite me to,
like, a Tupperware party orwhatever it's like, I don't
really like plasticky kind ofstuff, but if you have a candles

(19:43):
party, I'll be the first personthere. So I think, yeah, that
rejection is just a redirection.
Because what tends to happen,you invite me to Tupperware
party. Oh, no, not this week.
The kids have so power. And thenyou ask me next time. I've got
no intention going, so you askme next time. Oh. Oh no, my
husband is away, and then everytime, and then the person's
like, I think she just doesn'twant to hang out with me. And

(20:04):
it's like, I want to hang outwith you. I just not interested
in plastic. So people like, Idon't want to be rude by saying
this. And it's like, but are youbeing more rude by going next
time, next time, next time, whenyou have no intention of it?
Well, it's so true. And then Ithink for some people, for
myself at times, even just thetrying to negotiate, like, Okay,
well, I don't really want to dothat. It feels a little

(20:27):
confrontational in some way,even though it's not so I love
having that extra half step oflike, is there something else
that you want to do, especiallyas I kind of toe that line, or
can flex between introvert andextrovert? I just had a friend
last week. It was her birthday,and I said, you know, can I take
you to lunch? And she wasalready having lunch with some
friends, and my immediate, like,internal gut response was like,

(20:49):
I don't know them. I'm gonna beintruding. This is awkward. What
if they wanted special timewith, like, this whole laundry
list of probably people pleasingthoughts. But it's funny,
because I kind of slipped justinto what you said, and said,
You know, I just, since I don'tknow them, maybe I could meet
them a different time, and I'dlove to take you to coffee
another time. Let me know what,what feels spacious for you has
been a phrase I've been using alot with people. So I love that

(21:12):
little. It's like a half step,if it's too big of a step to say
no, or let me, let me look at mycalendar. Or, like you said,
with the soccer, it's like, orfootball, it's right away,
right? It's like, right now. Soyou can get on the think about a
time, and I've got a storywhere, okay, I'll give a story.
And then my mom, one time forMother's Day, I purchased her

(21:34):
white linen perfume. I don'tknow why, like, part of me is
like, I don't tend to buyanyway. I don't know why I
bought her this, but anyway, shewas like, spraying it on
everywhere she's coating on. Ohmy God, my mom loves this.
That's where I went to It's likeshe's using it all the time.
She's spraying like there's notomorrow. So in my head, I was
like, my mom loves it. So everymother's day, every birthday,

(21:55):
every Christmas, I was like,Here you go. Here's your next
white linen. I thought I was thebest daughter in the world.
Anyway, fast forward till I havemy own child. So this is how
long I've been buying her thisstuff for. Oh gosh, first
Mother's Day School, my littlekindy child. So she's like, four
or five comes and gives me this.
I don't know what it is. Andanyway, I am like, oh my god,

(22:16):
it's awful. And I'm like, mydaughter's name is Anthony. I'm
like, Sandy, thank you so much.
I love that you went to Mother'sDay store and bought this thing,
and I really appreciate it.
Mummy doesn't like smelly,scented things, which is true.
I'm very, you know, I said, Soin future, could you get me a
sticker or a card or, you know,like, I gave her a list of

(22:38):
things that I'd like, but notanything that has a scent with
it. And she's like, Okay, mommy,and off she totals, and
everyone's happy. And my mom iswatching this interaction, and
the second she's out of earshot,she's like, You're the worst
mother in the world. I'm like,Excuse me, just, how dare you
tell your daughter you don'tlike her present? I'm like, What
do you mean? Just, do you knowhow many years I've been wearing
white linen? And I'm like, solike, who is the back part? I'm

(23:00):
sure that shit was expensive,and I was saving up, and I
thought that you loved it. Ithink sometimes, in our people
pleasing ways, we don't speakup, we don't say I don't like
this or whatever. We're justlike and like. I've had clients.
I remember I had lady in myPatreon. I can't remember what
episode I was talking about. Ihave a solo podcast, and she

(23:21):
was, she relayed this story, andshe was like, my grandmother
bought me this jumper that washideous, like, absolutely
hideous. And I would just like,you know, crack it out whenever
she came over and make sure Iwear it whatever. And then she's
like, she moved away orsomething. I was like, Oh, I'm
not going to see her again. Soshe's like, I donated it to,
like, the op shop or whatever.
But then she was like, coming tovisit. She's like, so I'm

(23:42):
driving from op shop to op shopto buy this job. And anyway,
then the grandmother asked aboutit, and she was honest, and she
said, Look, I didn't really likeit. And she's like, Well, why
didn't you tell me? Like, Iwould have people when they're
giving you a gift or wanting tospend time with you. Like,
imagine, like, I wonder how manyrelationships, friendships break
up for this very thing, like myhusband, I have been together 23

(24:02):
years now, and from the get go,I was like, I don't I don't like
Japanese animation. I love that.
You love it, but I'm not goingto sit through this pretend and
then five years into ourrelationship, be like, God, can
we watch something that I wantto watch? So it's like, you do
something they're not saying notever, like, if my kids play
sport, I'll go watch them playsport, even if the sport doesn't

(24:25):
interest me, because that's mebeing there for them. But if
they're like, What do we want todo together? I'm not going to
go, let's go to a sports match.
So, yeah, I think it'sso interesting. So maybe part of
it when it's possible, or whenwe've kind of worked on in a
little bit. It sounds like thebest way to do it is start
boundaries earlier in arelationship, or at least saying
your opinion, kind of like, Idon't, I don't love this anime,

(24:47):
but, like, I'll do it sometimes,whatever it is, but if we're I'm
excited to ask you about this,because I struggles, maybe not
the right word, but I strugglewith this a little bit, like, if
I'm receiving a gift. I'm sograteful that someone has like
gone through the time and thethought, and even if it's a
lovely gift that's very special,but maybe not something I would
ever use or like or want towhere's that line of offending

(25:11):
someone or hurting theirfeelings, or, you know, saying
it when it's unnecessary orrude, versus this boundary of
like, I like you said with yourmom, like, I so appreciate you.
You know you doing this, butactually, I'd really rather not
have something that's has ascent.
I think, personally, it's kindof the meaning of cruel to be

(25:34):
kind. It's in like, if, if, ifsomebody gives you something,
you can be thankful that theythought of you like. You can be
like, thank you so much. Iappreciate the gesture, or I
appreciate you know, so like,not a gift as such, but a lot of
my clients, a lot of myfollowers, a lot of my people,
write books, and I love to read.
And in the beginning, if peoplewould send me a book, I feel so

(25:56):
obligated to read it, because,like, they sent it to me, and
what happens is, if I don't likeit and I'm stuck reading it,
that's like 10 hoursacross the room right now, like
this. So it'skind of like now what I say to
people, and also, too, beforeyou give somebody something,

(26:16):
depending on how it is, askthem, do they actually even want
it? Like, if it's their birthdayand you've given them a gift,
but like, gift, but like inbusiness, people will give you
stuff all the time in hopes thatyou will shout it out or mention
it or whatever. But you know, ifyou haven't been clear, like,
there's been some times wherepeople have written back to me
and go, Well, you shouted outthis person's book and I sent
you mine, but there was noworded contract here. So it's

(26:37):
kind of, if someone says to me,Hey, I've written a book. Can I
send it to you? What I will sayto them is, I'd love a chapter.
Like, send me a chapter, becausethen I can read it and go, Oh,
that's awesome. Joy. Send me therest of your book. I'd love to
do, or whatever. But, like, onechapter doesn't take me that
long. But I think, you know, weif it's someone's birthday and

(27:00):
we're giving them a gift, are wetaking the time to see what they
actually like? Are we givingthem what we would like or what
we think they should like, andthen getting annoyed? So if
anyone gives me any day call formy house and I don't like it,
I'm not displaying it. I'm notputting in the cupboard and
pulling it out when joy comesover. It's just like, I didn't
ask for this. And I thinksometimes we get all offended

(27:23):
and bent out of shape, but theperson has clearly said what
they like, like, in the days ofgift registries and stuff,
there's really no excuse ifsomeone's like, oh, you know,
here's you, I'm getting married,here's my wedding gift registry.
Oh, I don't want to get himsomething off that I want to get
in this. I had this happen formy wedding. My goodness,
friend, I love registry. Like,please give me a registry. She

(27:46):
gaveme this stuff. I didn't like it,
and it was just like, it was soawkward. But it's like, that's
something you wanted to displayin my house. I'm not going to
put it up just because you'recoming over. And I think the
more we have this kind ofconversations with love, with
care and in terms of starting toset boundaries, as you said
earlier, in the relationshipwith people you don't know,
like, I was so bad. I was such ayes person. If I went anywhere,

(28:07):
would you like a side of corn?
Yes. Would you like a bag? Yes.
Would you like some I buyeverything like I would be the
sucker for the add on sale. Ifyou're like me, start with that.
No. Thank you. I brought my ownbag, you know, yeah, in the
littlest place, and thencelebrate that. Like, yes, gosh,
and it's funny to people whodon't have an issue with this,
like, my husband's never had anissue saying no. He's like, What

(28:28):
about Earth? Why are you happythat you said no to the corn? If
you'd wanted corn, you wouldhave ordered it.
This is such an important thing,though, because so many of us
are conditioned or taught that,like, it's rude to say no, or
it's rude to not accept a gift,or to not engage, and truly,
what you're saying is, is right.
We should be able to haveboundaries with total strangers,

(28:48):
of course, and then maybegraduate to those that are
closest to us. It's rudeto Is it rude to have boundaries
or whatever, or say no to agift? What is the intention
behind the gift, like the numberof people who give my star my
podcast a five star rating, Ilove that. Thank you so much.
And if they say I also have apodcast, I may or may not choose
to listen to it, but this hasbeen one occasion where someone

(29:11):
sent me things, so I gave you afive star rating. Here's my
show. You can give me one.
Anyway. I looked at it, and Iwas like, This is not a topic I
have any intention of listeningto. So I was like, thank you so
much for your five star rating.
I really appreciate it. That'snot in a in a niche that I'm
interested in listening to, butI wish you all the best for the
show. They wrote back and go,well, in that case, I've chained
my five to one. And I was like,that's good for you, like people

(29:34):
holding you over a barrel, yeah.
And for me personally, when I goto look at something. I don't
look at five or one starratings. I look at three. That's
where you're going toget the real interesting. Yeah,
I look at both, but I want tosee, what are they like? What's
the one over? You know what Imean? Like, is there something
ridiculous?

(29:57):
You can just give people things.
It's like, yeah, if you don't.
This for me, I'm going to giveyou a bad rating on Google.
Okay, cool. That's reallymanipulative. And I think
sometimes, as people, pleaserstend to attract narcissistic or,
like, bodies, yeah, givers needto have boundaries because
takers don't have any. So it'slike, and I just think the
little permission thing is inlike, I have this. I'd like

(30:20):
this, are you open to aninvitation, not a demand, right?
Sometimes we get demanding,like, I got this for you, and
you should like it, and you'regoing to hang it up and you're
going to wear it every day, andit's like, no,
yeah. I mean, that's it makessense when you say it like,
sometimes in this situation, itcould feel a little different.
So how does someone go from Isit as simple as starting to

(30:42):
implement with strangers in yourday to day? What's the next step
from that to kind of okay? I'vepracticed saying no to the bag
or the upgrade. What's the nextlayer of that? I'd think
about it as in, if you weregoing to the physical gym and
you see the really fit peoplelike bicep curling. The
dumbbells are like, you know, 20or 40 pounds, and you can't even

(31:04):
lift that off the rack. You needto start down in the one pound
section and start where you are.
So sometimes you listen to apodcast, read a book, whatever,
and go, Oh my god, boundaries, Igot this. And then you go and
try and implement it. You'relike, oh my gosh, I don't got
this. And then you beat yourselfup and add, add to the evidence
of how you can't do this. Yeah,but if you're going to the
physical gym, you wouldn'texpect to be able to curl those
curls because you're notphysically fit enough yet. And

(31:25):
it's the same boundaries, and nomuscle needs to be built. So
every time that you say no tothe bag or no to the upgrade,
or, you know, no thanks toschool chocolates or whatever,
or ask for an alternate,celebrate that, like, let that
grow, and look at how many timespeople aren't offended or
affronted or whatever. Like, Iremember times where I've sat in

(31:46):
something, I've been so coldbecause I'm too scared to ask,
can we bump thermostat up acouple? Or I've dropped my
cutlery on the ground and beinglike, I can't ask for another
set. Why not? It's like, everytime that you start to speak up
or you start to like, have youwatched Ted lasso? Joy,
yes. Oh my gosh. What an amazingshow. Remember the

(32:08):
scene where he goes to theIndian restaurant? He says, Make
it like your family has it, andhe doesn't know, and then he's
there eating it. And then Troy,whatever his name is, it's like,
I can't eat this. And he's like,put it on my plate. We can't
offend them. So, yeah, cryinglike that was me. That would be
me. I was like, Oh my gosh. Iremember going to dinner at a
friend's place. They invited usover for this, um, I'd never had
an Indian meal before, and itwas something similar to that.

(32:30):
But also, too, there wasn't alot of food. And I thought, Oh,
okay. I didn't realize there'slike, 10 rounds of this. So I
was so full that I'm just stilleating, because I couldn't dare
say, Oh my gosh. So it's kind oflike start to speak up, and
every time that people don'tpush back or don't make you feel
crap about yourself. Just noticethat the majority of the things

(32:50):
in our head that they're goingto go say, do be like the person
who's like, I'm going to giveyou a one star. Then that's been
one person. I've only had 50 ofthose emails, so probably got
hundreds of views on my show,and don't define your entire
life by one person like you saidhow much you love my emails
earlier in this call. I love Iappreciate that. At least once a
week somebody will write backand say, Fuck off. Stop sending

(33:11):
me shit. I kid you not. Theysign up. I don't go around
stealing emails off theinternet. So it's kind of yeah,
there's always going to bepeople who have their stuff
going on, but it's very littleto do with us. Well, I
think it's such a good pointtoo, that it's like, yeah, make
sure you're also tallying thetimes when the world didn't
implode, or the person justsaid, Okay, that's fine, and

(33:32):
moved along with their day. Andbecause I do think we exhale on
those. But for me, anyway, I'mmaybe not as mindful of like,
okay, let's look at the actualrecord here. Maybe one person
you know, got offended oversomething, but the vast
majority, we do tend to hold onto that one negative or
challenge or versus, you know,really checking in on like,

(33:53):
okay, historically, how's thisgoing? Sorry.
Like, your response when I saidwishlist, a registry, you're
like, I'll give me a registry.
Most people who are giving yousomething want to give you
something that you like, unlessthey have an agenda, and then
it's not really a gift. Then isit right? So it's kind of like
when you say to somebodyactually like, it's funny. For a
long time, pink was my favoritecolor. Now it's purple, and

(34:15):
people would always buy me pinkstuff. And I love this. This is
great, awesome in future. I likepurple now and then, oh, noted
it's not, I didn't drop it onthe ground and stomp on it. I
didn't throw it back at you andsay, it's awful. I can
appreciate this. And kind oflike, you know, same as, like,
chocolate I used to love. Idon't know if you have it there.
It's called Cadbury creamegg. It was, I know, yeah, we do

(34:35):
have Cadbury. It is a thinghere. And I ate it for years and
years and years and years andyears and years, and then I
moved into state. When myhusband, I got married, and I'd
know my tastes changed. I don'tlike it. My family every year,
when we did Easter we don'tanymore, I kind of lovingly
remind them I don't actuallylike this anymore. Oh yeah, next
year they'd forget. I didn'tthrow it back, I didn't stop it,

(34:56):
I didn't eat it. They didn'tknow that. So receiving the
thing that. Kind of lovingly,gently educating them, the same
as like, I run an onlinebusiness, so I don't work a nine
to five. My dad, if he tries toget hold of me during the day,
he'd ring me. So I get off acall like this, and I look at my
phone, I have 15 missed calls,and my thought would be like,
who died. That's where my braingoes. So saying, Dad, if I don't

(35:19):
answer, just send me a text, orin the morning, say, I want to
chat today when you breakbecause he's retired that and
sometimes, like setting theseboundaries, people don't get it
straight away. And I thinkthat's what we don't want to
impose, or we don't want to berude if you've been doing if
you've been living your lifethis way up until now, if you've
been sitting through Japaneseanimation with your husband
because he loves it, and belike, I can't stand this. And

(35:40):
you kind of say to him, that isnot really my jam. And he'll go,
yeah. And then you have to tellhim about 10 times. It doesn't
mean that he doesn't value you.
It's just that you've developedthis habit, and now you need to
develop a new one. And also,too, whenever you have a
conversation about a boundary orsomething, make sure you have
the person's full attention. Ican ask my husband for the world
when he's playing his Xbox, andhe'll say yes, and then he'll

(36:02):
have no recollection of itbecause he wasn't paying
attentionto me. He wasn't there, really.
So how do you if someone doesfeel or hear themselves in this
conversation and say, yeah,actually, with my partner, there
are some things I'd like to justcreate a new boundary around.
How does someone I'm singleright now, so I don't have this

(36:24):
situation right now, but howdoes one say, Okay, I want to
create the space and time andfocus for this conversation, but
I don't want to do the thingwhere I make it seem like a big
deal. Or how do we do it in away that doesn't feel
accusatory, that feels verygentle and easy, but we're still
making sure we have like thatcarved out focus. It
will depend on your relationshipand how they'll receive it. So

(36:46):
like, for me, for Suzanne, ifanyone says to me, we need to
talk, yeah, to me, oh my god,I'm about to get fired. Like,
oh, like, sometimes I'll get anemail subject heading about your
newsletter, and I'll be like, OhGod, what tire rate are they
going to go down? Yeah, somy kids know they have to text
me with everything is fine, butI need to talk or whatever. Yes,

(37:07):
callsand you see that number, and I'm
like, hello, and they mostoffice ladies or gentlemen,
usually ladies will say it'ssuch and such from a school, the
kids are fine and they can feel,you know, but sometimes they
don't, and you do, and you'renot listening, because you're
waiting for, have they fallenoff a screen, right, exactly. So
it's kind of like, what kind ofrelationship do you have with
the person, with the friend, thepartner? So like, with my

(37:30):
husband, he's very he's anengineer. He's so, okay, I'll be
like, I'll be like, we need tohave a conversation. And he'll
be like, Okay, let's schedulethe time like he's not me, but
if he says that to me, alarmbells will be going. You don't
need to be the same as in, likehow you approach but if you're
approaching somebody like me,everything's fine, it's your
thing, yeah. But I want to havea talk, or a serious talk, or a

(37:52):
heart to heart, or however youword it when you be available,
like a schedule a time, becausesometimes we've built this up in
our head. That's really whateverfor us. We don't know what
they've got going on. So, like,even with your friends. So with
my friends, I'm so introverted.
Don't call me as in, like, Don'tring without texting me first.

(38:15):
Hey, yeah, one of my friends isa raging extrovert. She's like,
I didn't make friends with you.
You You didn't make friends withme. I adopted you. And just
recently, I rang her, and sheanswered with, what's wrong? And
I was like, that's fine. Andshe's like, You never ring
without texting first. And I waslike, I was out for a walk. And
the kid, you know, that was justso funny, though, because we've
developed this thing. So how youapproach the thing is in whether

(38:37):
it's, you know, we need to talklike I could do with my husband.
He'd be fine or nothing's wrong,but I want to make some changes.
I want to have a chat, or aheart to heart or whatever, so
that you can schedule the time,so that you can both not have
your distractions, so yourphones are on silent or whatever
it is, and you could be you sitat a table, you go for a walk,
you sit on the couches, talk onthe phone, whatever it is, but

(38:59):
having that time so that they'reprepared for it as well, or on
board, or giving you theattention and then deciding how
you talk about it. Becausesometimes I think people are
scared to set a boundary,because they're like, oh my
gosh, this person will be somad, or whatever. A boundary
means you want to continue therelationship. A boundary is a
good thing. If you didn't wantyou know, you wouldn't bother so

(39:21):
it's kind of like and then whenyou start the conversation, I
always begin them with up untilnow, so you acknowledge this is
how it's been happening up untilnow. Whenever we watch
something, it's always beenJapanese animation. Honestly, I
love you. I don't actually lovethat as much as you do. So I'd
like to find something that is amiddle ground, or something that

(39:41):
we both enjoy. So from here onout, can we try some new things
or whatever, and it's just, it'sas simple as that. Up until now,
you can do this in business.
I've had a number of like, Idon't do DMS in my business in
any way, shape or form. I thinkunsolicited DMS, the dick pics,
the social media world. I hate.
Don't want to. So with myclients, up until now, I've

(40:02):
answered via whatever platform.
And also, too, I don't knowabout you, but I can't keep
track. Did I message them onFacebook or Instagram or
WhatsApp or tell it?
No, it's so much, yeah, it's alot kind of like,
and from here on, yeah. Andalso, how does that land for
you? Like, what do you think?
What are your thoughts? You'rebringing them in so I can think

(40:23):
of a very personal exam example.
It's got to do with my kids. Mydaughter has anxiety. I have
anxiety too. I'm not surprised.
Um, and she for me, what wouldhave been ideal is that she'd
tell me immediately afterschool, like, this is what's
happened. And what would happenis she come to me at like, 10
o'clock at night when I'm aboutto get into bed. I'm, like,

(40:44):
brushing my teeth, and sheshould be in bed, and then she'd
offload, and then I wouldlisten, but then I can't go to
sleep after that, like, I'd tuckher in, and she would have got
rid of all this stuff, and offshe'd go to sleep. And then I'm
like, Oh, I'm the world's worstmom and this and that. And
you're in like, damage controlmode, yeah. 2am unpacking my own
emotions. So I'm like, up untilnow, I've talked about this.
Whenever you want to talk aboutit, I can't have these

(41:08):
conversations so close to bed,because also my son gets up.
He's on the spectrum, so he getsup really early. So anyway, so I
want to have these conversationsimmediately after school. And
she's like, okay, okay, okay,okay. And then after school, she
wouldn't say anything. And thenthat night, it'd be 10 at 10pm
again, so having to hold thatboundary and say actually no,

(41:29):
the first night, I was like, I'mthe worst mom in the world. But
then what happened is, overtime, I started checking in,
because the thing is, she wasn'tso and what we worked out was,
after school, it was too soonfor her. She had, she hadn't
unwound enough yet, but in theevening is too late for me. So
it ended up being around 7pm sowe've had dinner, kind of like

(41:50):
that, wind down time. And then,you know, some of this boundary
you can have, like for me,ideally, after school, it didn't
work. So it changes over time,and you have these conversations
with the people that you love,but then you need to hold the
boundary when it's 10pm and sonow what happens is it's about
seven. I check in each day,anything you want to unpack. No,
you know that if we don't unpackit now, it's got to wait till

(42:11):
tomorrow. I know, because thenthey'll just keep doing the same
thing if you let it. So it canbe really hard in the beginning,
but people get it, and then yougrow together. Well, it's a
greatpoint too, because it's a work
in progress. It's some of itsounds like it's about knowing
your audience, the person thatyou want to talk to. Maybe they,
maybe they're not good beforethey've had a cup of coffee in
the morning, or whatever it is.

(42:33):
So that's me. So maybe there issome consideration on both
parts. It's funny, you mentionedthis. I'm having a little
boundaries thing with mydaughter. She's oh my gosh, 24
now, and she likes to only text.
We both have our own anxietystuff and our own processing
stuff. So she prefers to text.
She prefers things in writing. Ihave a challenge when it's a

(42:56):
serious conversation, I feellike I'm being asked to put it
in, like, a social media post oflike, put this very serious
response to this dramatic event,yes, exactly. And I'm like,
Okay, this is not working forme, because she's not hearing my
tone. She's not and when I'mdirect, because I tend to be
very soft around the edges withpeople I care about. If I'm

(43:18):
direct, people tend to read itas I'm angry I'm being me,
whatever it is. So how would youaddress it if people have
boundaries that are a little bitat odds? It sounds like that's
kind of what happened with yourdaughter, where it's you
preferred one time she preferredanother. And we kind of kept
stepping around each other untilwe could massage it enough and
meet in the middleif you have different
communication styles. So that'sanother example. Like, I prefer

(43:40):
talk, because, as you said, youcan hear tone, and you can hear
the pauses, everything. If Ihave to write something, it
takes me 10 times as long, yeah,because then I need to rewrite
it, then oh, what if I hear itlike this? Like, if I say no, oh
no, you know you can say ohyeah. She thought about No,
two different inflections there.

(44:02):
It's having the conversation. Somost of my one on one clients, I
do Voxer like voice message withand there is one client, and for
whatever reason, she'svenemently opposed, she won't do
a voice message. Okay, cool. Butthen I said to her, I said,
Look, when I write email, I canlook really direct. I don't do
the hi joy, like I'm justanswering your question. So it's

(44:26):
like, don't listen to it, thetone, the way that I speak. It
looks clipped. It looks direct.
So like having the conversationwith your daughter. It's like,
the reason this doesn't work forme is, you know, like it takes
me so much time, or, yeah, Ifeel really restricted. Or I
feel like you're going toscreenshot it and send it back
to me like evidence. So it'skind of like maybe finding a a

(44:46):
ground of like, if you're goingto insist that I communicate
like this, I'm not doing thepleasantries like of high buy
whatever. Or we can communicatelike this however much time, but
once a week. We talk on thephone, or finding some sort of
middle ground, because, yeah,like, it's, there's, it's funny,
my my husband was actually mysister's friend first, because

(45:09):
he was friends with her husband,and they were, they were friends
and whatever. When we met, shewas like, Why does he always
email you back? He never writesback to me, you know, and I
asked him about it. We weren'tdating, we were just friends at
time, whatever he's like,because she never asked me a
question. She's like, you alwaysask what's

(45:30):
very engineering minded, youknow, period, yeah, and it's
funny too. Like my son, he's onthe spectrum, so it could be
that. But like last term, heplayed soccer after school on a
Thursday. He didn't want to doit this term, so I was planning
to pull him out, which, youknow, which we did. And then the
school said. School Principalsaid, Oh, customer, we're
changing the soccer fromThursday to Tuesday. Will that

(45:52):
be a problem for you? He's like,No, it's no problem. And I said,
did you say to her, you're notplanning to come because I don't
want to do it off, but shedidn't ask that. She asked, Is
that going to be problem? Yeah,no, it's not gonna be a problem
because I'm not doing itanymore. So you could be like,
Oh, that kid's, you know, do youknow what I mean? So it's kind
of like sometimes these failuresto communicate. Like, if you

(46:12):
said, if, if you're assumingyou're gonna keep going with
this thing, like, I'd be like,oh, so he's, she says, no
worries, but he has no worriesbecause he's not coming. So it's
kind of like when we have thisthing, if we say to the person,
like, I said to my daughter, Ican't do 10 o'clock at night
because I'm exhausted and Ican't get to sleep. And then she
didn't voice it, I'm like, I'mguessing. And she nodded that

(46:33):
3pm is too early for you becauseyou haven't processed it yet.
Yeah. But then sometimes atseven, like, and there's so many
like examples of things where inour people pleasing attempt,
we're not helping the person.
We're enabling them. If I keeptalking to her at 10 o'clock at
night, that's not helping her,that's enabling her, things same
as my son, as I said, likeanother like dumb example. One

(46:54):
day I was going to the city towatch Hamilton love that show,
so when I dropped him at school.
Um, he'd forgotten his schoolbag. Now, in the past, I would
have gone home, picked up hisbag, just missed my show,
because if you get to liketheater here, they lock you out
an office over there. But I'mlike, dude, you've forgotten
your bag. Like, you're gonnahave to ask people to borrow a

(47:14):
pencil and a rubber and a rulerand, oh, sorry, you guys call it
a razor. I did ring the canteenand organize a lunch for him. I
didn't make my kids starve, butit's kind of like I'm not going
to put myself out to make itmore convenient for you. And
guess what? He's never forgottenhis bag again, whereas, if I
kept running home, he keptforgetting it because he knew

(47:35):
mum would save him. Sosometimes, in our people
pleasing rescuer tendencies, wearen't actually teaching anybody
anythingwell. And in some ways, I guess,
like, if it's not a kiddo, butmore of like a colleague or an
employee, we're not holding thatstandard for them to become the
best of themselves and andreally take, I've
got an old example that made mereally unpopular. Yeah, my I

(47:58):
live in Sydney, so we have a lotof international sports games
and stuff. My family's fromTassie, the tiny island down the
bottom. My sister was coming tovisit. She was hiring a vehicle,
so she had a higher car. Anyway,she's gone in the netball. And I
said, Whatever you do, bookparking, you will not get
parking on the day like serieslike this. And I said to her

(48:18):
joy, at least three times, maybefour. Book parking. Have you
booked parking yet? Have youbooked parking yet? She got here
was on the day or the daybefore, and I said, Oh, did you
book the parking? And she'slike, Oh, no, I didn't. I said,
Oh, you need to catch a train.
She's like, I'm not catchingpublic transport. I don't know.
The problem is, I love publictransport, but you're each their
own. She's like, you can justdrop me off. And the thing is,
in the past, I would have and Iwas like, I've got to work. Is

(48:40):
all your work for yourself. AndI'm thinking, you want me to
cancel my clients the day beforebecause you didn't book the
parking that I told you to book.
So we kind of had thisloggerheads thing about it. And
I was like, you know, I told youto book parking. You didn't book
it. You need to catch a train.
And she's like, I don't want tocatch a train. Her not wanting

(49:00):
to catch a train is not myproblem. I was like, right?
Catch an Uber, then I don't wantto pay for an Uber. So, like,
often, you know, we're trying toproblem solve for people who
don't want to be inconvenienced,but they don't have any problem
inconveniencing us.
That's so true. And I think alot of caretakers, people
pleasers, we do try topreemptively, you know, okay,

(49:21):
make sure you do this and makesure you have this and make sure
you organize the parking and andmaybe people are used to us
being a little bit permissive.
And how did she react when youput your foot down and said,
like, I've already told you, shewas pissed. Like, there's often
the biggest pushback from yourclosest people, course, and
also, I'm the youngest when Igrew up like, I think sometimes
when you move away, you'refrozen in time to them. Like,

(49:43):
the first year I moved away, Iorganized two surprise parties
for my family interstate andflew down for them, and all this
sort of stuff, like I was so,you know. And then the fact that
it has even said to her how youneed to book the parking, and
mentioned a couple of times pastme would have booked the parking
and I hadn't even made the.
Action, but maybe joy, that'swhat she was expecting. Oh, I
would have just booked it forher, yeah, but it's just kind of

(50:04):
like no letting people have thenatural consequence of their
actions. Provide it's notdangerous, like I wouldn't say
to my kid, don't walk into thestreet. Oh, no, of course, of
course. It's kind of likeanother one, like helping my
kids with their homework. Theyknow they need to ask me by this
time. And I remember one time mydaughter coming once again, 10
o'clock at night. I've got, I'vegot to build a diorama I'll call

(50:26):
when by tomorrow, you're goingto fail them crying. And she's
like, Yo, you're the worst momever. Oh, my goodness. Now,
whenever she gets a project thatday, that day, I've got this
Jew. It's this far out, yeah,because me doing her project for
her is not setting her up forreal life when she's got to go
to a job or an interview orsomething, and wondering why she

(50:46):
doesn't get it because her mom'snot there to do it for her.
It's so true, and some of it isespecially with kids. It's a
consistency thing, like my kidsknew, do not ask me if you can
do something, if it's right now,like it's a no. I need to know
the day before. I need time toprocess. I need to do research,
or whatever it might be. I needto meet these parents, you know,

(51:07):
whatever it is. So I think thatfor me, was an easier one to
hold. But sometimes it is likewe feel pushed in a corner, and
what's the easiest or best ormost successful way to kind of
hold that boundary whensomething's happening without
going into an overreaction, isit just restating? It's just
kindof like it it's noticing the
pushback and noticing the thehurt people may very well feel

(51:32):
hurt. We're not responsible forpeople's emotions like it's just
reminding yourself of that, butthey are not harmed. Like my
sister, she didn't want to catchthe train, okay? For whatever
reason. She don't like publictransport, that's fine. She
didn't want the hurt or thesting of having to pay for an
Uber okay, but it's kind oflike, but none of these let
people have their reactions, Iguess, yes, and not make it mean

(51:55):
anything about you, becausepeople do have reactions. Like,
I have reactions all the time.
I'm like, you know, but as kids,it's funny, young kids have a
tender temper tantrum, throw itaround, and then they're fine.
There's an adult, they just tendto sit on it and see and sit on
it and see, and it's kind oflike whatever reaction they're

(52:16):
having, they're they're entitledto it. That doesn't mean you
literally need to witness or beon the receiving end of it, and
also to, like, a boundary withpeople. It's kind of like, if
you raise your voice, I willhang up the phone. Like, I won't
be yelled at, although I'm asweary fairy, I also won't be
sworn at, like I swear but yes,we're at so it's kind of like,

(52:38):
and I give people the onewarning you're yelling at me. I
won't be spoken to like this. Ifthis continues, I will end the
call, right and then ending thecall, and then it's funny,
sometimes too, ending the call.
If they ring straight back now Idon't answer, because sometimes
before I've answered and they'vebeen like, nobody hangs up on
me. But it's kind of like, yougot to look after yourself first

(52:58):
self first. Isn't selfish. So ifyou don't want to be yelled at,
if you don't want to be thissort of stuff, and also, like
your feelings are your own too.
So it's like when you start tosay, You made me feel as I don't
know I felt like this inresponse to and sometimes we do
over give and over deliver andoverride our own boundaries,

(53:19):
because we can't handle how wefeel when they have that
reaction, but over time, butletting holding the ground there
and letting that reactionhappen, like next time my sister
visit, she sure she'd bookedparking,
has an Uber or something. Well,like you said about that other
mom, that you were kind ofdriving around town. It's at
some point, I think thatresentment that festers in us

(53:43):
when we're either not saying ourboundary or being a pushover or
people pleaser, enabling others,eventually we get to decide that
our feelings matter equally toeveryone else, or some version
of thatexactly and also too, if you
want something like to say now,if a friend actually, I would
not drive to the Sydney Airportor live in Sydney. Now for
anything, not even for my ownfamily, I don't even drive there

(54:05):
for me. I can't stand it. Itcreeps me out. It's scary. It's
too busy, like, so I just Uberit, baby. I hang the expense,
you know, or train, yeah,because I don't mind the train,
but it's kind of like, if youwould do it to say they wanted
me to take them to somethingelse, and it was an hour away,
and I might, but I would say,Well, you know, you're covering
the petrol, or whatever it is,or fuel, whatever you call it

(54:28):
like, what, what is the hang uppoint for you? Because sometimes
it's kind of like, it's, it's anexpense, not just energy and
time, but it's also money. Orit's kind of like, if, you know,
if you go out for dinner, likemost of my friends, I shout this
time you shout that time, it'skind of, it is what it is. But
I've got a couple of friends whoare real, like, line by line
item, yeah. And so it's kind oflike, will you just pay you a
half an iPad? Like, what is it?

(54:50):
And that could, it doesn't needto be across the board for
everyone in your life. It couldbe for some friends, we you do,
I do, and for other friends tobe like, you know? And like,
there'll be some people too.
Like most. People know, don'ttouch stuff off on my plate.
Like, I have got through the kidthing where people so it's kind
of like, if you want that, orderit yourself, especially if you
go somewhere, like, it's funny,my sister and I went on a
cruise, and I like chips, youguys call them fries. And she's

(55:12):
like, she doesn't like chips,but she does, but she'll just
pinch mine, and I'll be like,order your own. We're not paying
for them. We've already paid forthe trip. But it's kind of like,
you know, what is the boundary?
I don't like people, I get thefood that I like unless we go
somewhere and we decided aheadof time we're having a share
flight or something. But like,don't just assume and

(55:34):
communicating that. And peoplelike, oh yeah, don't. Don't
touch this food. That's sofunny well, and I think it's, a
good part of learning aboutourselves. I would imagine it's
probably a lot of what you helpyour clients with in coaching is
really just understanding, likeyou said, Well, what's the
sticking point for you here? Isit that you're spending your
gas, your petrol? Is it thatyou're taking the time like
deducing it down to exactly whatthe feeling is, maybe, or the

(55:57):
resistance, and then creatingthe boundary around that is that
right? 100%it's a case by case basis. Like
people often ask me, why don't Ihave a formula, or why don't
have a blueprint? I want to havea structure or six steps,
because there isn't that. Everyperson, every scenario, is
different. I have differentboundaries with my kids than I
do with my extended family thatI do with people I don't know.
And also, it's funny, like whenpeople get to know your

(56:18):
boundaries, my son, he, as Isaid, he's very literal. He had
this homework, and it said, Yourmum has 12 chocolates. You asked
for six. How many chocolatesdoes your mum have? And he wrote
12. And the teacher marked himas wrong. And I actually had to
say, and it was so funny. It'slike, my mum doesn't share.
Like, do the math. It was like,if you want him to go 12 minus

(56:40):
six, or your mom gave you six.
Like, but how do you phrase thequestion? Yeah, because it's
like you phrased the question.
You asked for six. How many doesshe have? She still has 12,
baby, because she said, No,it's such a good such a good
point to really be minding theway that we communicate and
making sure the other person isreceiving what we're
communicating and maybe evensaying it back so we can make

(57:02):
sure we're on the same justbecause I say it
when we design, it's such agreat thing. Like, what did you
hear me say? Not in a Did youhear me say, court of law kind
of thing? But yeah, because thenit's like, I heard you say you
don't want to go to lunch withme. Like, maybe that's not what
you said. You just said, like,can we just pick our own food?
Yeah. How does that land foryou? Or, you know, so that they

(57:24):
that you're on the same pagelike I, as I said, my friends
text me first, and they sosomething my friends do is they
go, you got spoons, which means,have you got availability to
listen to my event today? Itwasn't that long ago. Friends
said, You got spoons. I had somuch stuff going on with the
kids I couldn't see above water.
And I'm like, not today. Hit meup next week. Yeah, anyway, and
come back to me, they've brokenup with their fiance. I was

(57:46):
like, oh my god, I would havemade spoons for that. Yeah, that
was a big category for ourcommunication because, like, you
got spoons. I thought you justwanted to vent about your boss
or something. I didn't realizeyour whole life was changing. So
Well,that's such a good point asking
that person like, Are youavailable? I have kind of the
other side of that coin where Iam often saying, okay, pause, do
you need me to just hear youright now? Are you looking for

(58:08):
some brainstorming solutions? Itend to be, like, very solution
oriented, and that's often whatpeople are coming to me for.
But, like, my kiddos often justwant to, like, emotionally vomit
the thing, and that's also fine,but I just need to know so that
they're feeling supported aswe're having the communication.
How can I support you right now?
It's an amazing sentence. I say,sometimes people just want to be

(58:32):
heard as you said, Yeah, andlike, with my friends or
whatever, I'll be like, do youwant the coach answer, or do you
want the friend answer? Yeah,he's an asshole,
and which house, yeah? Orif they send me something, as I
said, like, Do you want acheerlead? Oh, this is amazing.
Or do you want what I reallythink? And most people will say
both and then. So it's kind oflike you can say that there, but

(58:54):
I think sometimes choosing youraudience for who you go to as
well. Like, to never ask my dad,what does he think of something,
because he has no filter. He'llalways just say exactly what he
thinks. And sometimes I justneed to be told it's amazing. So
then I'll go to a friend and gotell me, I'm amazing. Do you
mean you having that littlewherewithal too, of knowing how
you respond to things? Becauseyeah, I also am a fixer person.

(59:16):
You go to an emergency, butsometimes people don't want
fixing. Most of the time. Peoplejust want to be heard
well. And it's a big part of, Ithink, taking our own
responsibility too, to say,like, hey, Suzanne. Like, I
just, I know you really aregoing to want to help me with
this, but actually, I just wantto complain for five minutes, or
you have five minutes for that.
Like, it's kind of both takingresponsibility for the
relationship really, yeah, 100%because I love what you said

(59:40):
that if, if you're, if you'rewanting to make a boundary with
someone's because you're wantingto continue the relationship
just with maybe some moreboundaries. Yes,
boundaries aren't a good thing.
Aren't a bad thing, they're agood thing. We want to keep this
going, but I want to keep itgoing in a way that's a win,
win, not a way where I feelinghave to compromise myself
constantly. Yeah. Because, like,I'm very direct. I'm also very

(01:00:01):
Aussie, so a lot of my clientsare American, so sometimes I
have to have one. This mighthave been Aussie ism or it's
like, so, like, it's funny. Theother day, I had a client, and
she was coming up with a newplatform thing, and she wanted
to put the same thing on substack, medium Patreon, and test
where she's going to get hermost traction. And I was like,
Oh, so you can put the same shiteverywhere. And then I was like,

(01:00:23):
Oh, hang on, I didn't mean, andshe's also Australian, so she's
like, No, I get you, yeah, yeah.
But if I said that to perhaps anAmerican guy, they might be
like, Oh my gosh. You sayingthat works bad. And I'm like,
No, the same shit everywhere isin the same content. So it's
kind of, is it a cultural orlanguage or like, however your

(01:00:43):
brain is processing the thingversus, you know how you word
it? So when people that's why Iliterally say on my bio
everywhere, I'm a sweary fairy,stuff's gonna come out. Yeah, so
don't be surprised. I remembermy mom when I first, my mom's
now passed, but when I firstbecame 100% me in my business,
like, I don't have the makeupphotos on my site because I

(01:01:04):
don't wear makeup. I've got thesame shirts and stuff I wear
every day. And she's like, Whathappens when people read your
swear words on your homepage?
You'll be like, it'll preparethem for when I say I'm in
session.
I really loved that about yourwebsite, and that, especially
the way that you, you know,write those newsletters that I'm
now raving about to everybody.
There's a realness in it. It'skind of a stripping away, which,

(01:01:25):
in my perspective, as a littleAmerican over here, I do have
some amazing Aussie friends, andyou guys do tend to be very who
you are for the most part, whichI really love, because it just
gives other people permission toknow how to come to the party
with you. And like you wouldeven one section of like, Hey,
you can wear your pjs to ourmeetings. I am, it's fine, like,
it's, you know, I just, I reallylove that realness. And I'm sure

(01:01:46):
a lot of people are drawn to youbecause they don't have to
pretend, yeah.
And it's funny, I did the DISCprofile, or whatever that
personality one like, I paid andgot it done professionally, not
okay. And they said I was theonly person that ever seen like
the profiler whose profile wasexactly the same for personal
and business. Like, usuallyinteresting, yo. And I was like,

(01:02:07):
because, because who I am so Iam like, I don't, I don't edit
my business. I don't in my life.
And it's funny, people willoften tell you how you got to be
like, You can't do this unless.
And I was like, according to whodid Moses write that in stone?
Like, yeah, exactly. Like, yes.
Follow the letter of the law,wear your seat belts, drive the
speed limit, all that sort ofstuff. Don't drink and drive.
But a lot of the things that youshould do in business are just

(01:02:28):
told by someone who's trying tosell you something. Anyway,
everyone who complains about howmy podcast is unedited is
usually the people who run apodcast editing service and are
trying to sell me their shit.
That's sofunny. I mean, you had my heart
the minute we emailed, because Idon't edit either. And I'm like,
Oh, this is amazing. Like, Ijust very little front and back
and nothing in the middle,because that's just not my jam
either. And you'll just to yourpoint earlier about how we were

(01:02:52):
talking about you'll get one ortwo stray emails back about not
liking your emails and yourstorytelling. And it's like,
well, those people weren't foryou anyway, and you know, bless
them, on their way and, oh,something that will trigger
someone like, sometimes it time,reader, there'll be somebody
who's been on my list for a longtime, and whatever I said that
day hit too close to the mark.

(01:03:14):
Yeah. And for whatever reason,sometimes they unsubscribe
quietly, sometimes theyunsubscribe loudly, sometimes
they come back, yeah. It's like,it's not, it's never about me.
And I think when we totallyrealize people's reaction is
very little to do with us,because I can say the same thing
to 2000 people, and one of themcan be bent out of shape, and
the others, and then you tend tofocus on that one, and your

(01:03:35):
people pleasing comes in, yeah,and then it's kind of like your
stuff gets very generic. Soyeah, it's so,
I mean, we can't water downeverything for for there's
always, I've learned the hardway so many times, there's
always going to be a few. Noteveryone's going to like me.
Some people are going to rejectme just based on the title of an
email or the way I'm wearing myhair that day. Like,

(01:03:59):
Oh, that's stuff about myeyebrows. That's so funny. I
find that interesting. Or theoffhand comments that I say,
because I'm just so direct.
Like, I said something recently,I've never meant it in an
offensive way. I was like, Doyou have imposter syndrome? Are
you just not good at it? Like,it's so funny because I got
imposter syndrome, and it'slike, but if you haven't done
the thing yet, you're not goodat it. You can't have imposter
syndrome. You have the validpiece of it. So it's just kind

(01:04:20):
of like, but I didn't mean it tobe like, I say you suck at life.
It's like, you haven't done itenough times. Yeah,
I think that's really valid. Andthe truth is, yeah, not everyone
likes to look at themselves.
People tend to be quick to lashso I just think it's so
important to keep in ourconsideration when we are making
boundaries or exercisingboundaries, like, Hey, it's okay
if they don't like it, or theyget angry because maybe they

(01:04:42):
didn't have permission to makethat boundary. Or that's usually
what it is. Yeah, you've beenaudacious enough to say
something that they're dying tosay, and when they do come back,
it's always interesting. Thenumber of people who come back,
it's usually because you saidsomething it hit. Too close to
home. How dare you say that?
Because I've always wanted tosay it, but I couldn't. Yeah,

(01:05:04):
they often don't say that, butjust that's part of the mix.
Some of the time, I want torespect your six months later, I
know that's great. I want torespect your time. I know you've
got things today. I know we'rein very different time zones.
Will you tell the people? I willlink everything in the show
notes. Will you let everyoneknow how to find you.
Definitely. Highly recommendsubscribing to your newsletter.
Bestplace to find me is my website,
Suzanne colberg.com and ifyou've got any questions or

(01:05:28):
whatever, the most funnest pagemy website, Suzanne colberg.com
forward slash contact. Anythingyou got about the episode that
you want to share, please feelfree to go there. Fill it in.
You'll know within a minutewhether I'm for you. And
depending on how you answer mycontact page, oh no, because
yeah, that's that's the biggestthing. My contact page gets a
lot of people offside. And I'mlike, yeah, it's deliberate,
that way. Funny.

(01:05:48):
Well, you've got a book andyou've got programs and you've
got coaching. Oh, I've been allthrough your website, and I love
the newsletter, like I said, Ithink it's a real glimpse into
your actual personality and andjust date like real life, day to
day, I keep thinking about theone where your your kiddo, had
the school recital. And I just,it just took me back to those
days of going to those schoolrecitals and drop offs and

(01:06:11):
where's my kid. And okay, Igotta just trust that they found
the teachers are supposed to bewith and someone's gonna
organize them. And I, too, haveone that agrees to things and
then won't come out. And so,yeah, I found that one. So thank
you for really so openly, notjust sharing here with us today,
but for those that do get onyour newsletter and kind of
integrate into your system,you're sharing real and true and

(01:06:34):
and about your real life all thetime, which I really appreciate.
Thanks for having me joy. Thankyou. I'm gonna
shift gears and put you throughour spirit Speed Round very
quickly. It's super fun andeasy, as you know. Will you
share one thing that reallyshocked you or was unexpected,
as you started to get very clearand assertive in your
boundaries,how many people weren't

(01:06:55):
affronted by it? Like, how feware people? I think it's, you
know, we tend to have onetraumatic experience or one
thing that's kind of locked inour mind. But how most people
like, Yeah, sure. Like, it's nota big deal. Like, I'm breathing
into a paper bag, even to thisday, sometimes when I ask people
for things and they're like,Yeah, it's fine. How often it's
not what you think it's going tobe, people are pretty cool with
it.

(01:07:16):
All right, that's a good one. Ifyou got to spend a day in the
spirit world, you got the fulltour. You got to spend time with
everyone who you've ever known,who's now crossed over, and it's
almost time to return to yourlife, and your guide tells you
you have one hour and you canspend it with anyone who's on
the other side. Who do youchoose and why? I actually
had this conversation with myson the other day we were

(01:07:37):
watching somebody got a half anhour ticket to spend with
anybody, and I my answer thenwas my mother. But what was
interesting, after talking him,is actually my grandmother,
because I never met her. Shepassed before I was born. And I
was like, because he said thathe's like, I'd love to meet her.
And I was like, I would too,actually, because all the
stories my mom used to share somy grandma, but

(01:07:58):
a cool conversation to have witha kiddo too. I feel like it's
nice they have, like, suchdelicious answers. Even though
we have spiritual and intuitivegifts, we have very human lives.
What's one more quirky thingabout you that people might be
surprised to learn, althoughI'm ridiculously introverted, my
very first job was as a clown.
Oh my gosh, I love it. Well,that's good. I mean, you still

(01:08:21):
people don't see younecessarily. So I could get that
you could step into a differentpersona. Will you leave us with
a pearl of wisdom? What's onepiece of advice that you wish
you had had earlier on in yourjourney?
When you stop people pleasing,some people will not be pleased.
I love it, but most like cheerleading for you, and like, oh

(01:08:45):
thank goodness, especially oneswho love you most, your friends,
your family, your partner, ifyou have one, they'll be like,
oh thank goodness she has abackbone. They like it. They
appreciate that.
Well, it gives them permissionto also say, you know, I don't
like smelly perfume, whatever.
Yeah,it's so it's so freeing to live
a life where you don't have toworry about the backlash and
stuff, because people will justbe honest with you too, and

(01:09:06):
sometimes other people'sresponses to you can sting, but
then it's like, yeah, that'sjust how they're feeling at that
given moment, nothing to do withyou. Like, don't take so much
life personally, and then lifewill be so much more joyous.
I love that. Well, I hopeeveryone will check out Suzanne
colberg.com everything's in theshow notes, you can easily just
click away and get right toSuzanne and her amazing

(01:09:27):
newsletter. Again, I highlyrecommend it. Thank you so much.
I feel like I could chat withyou for hours, but thank you for
being here and shining yourlight with us today.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you for joining me todayfor this conversation, what did
you think of Suzanne, of her wayof sharing, of her very special
way of being caring and kind,but also very direct. It's

(01:09:50):
really interesting when someonecan hold space in that way, when
someone can help us start tolearn how to extract what is the
sticking point for us in anygiven. And situation or
scenario. You guys, know, I lovethat tool about pausing, but I
love this added layer she gaveus about not just pausing and
asking, you know, can I get backto you tomorrow on that but also

(01:10:12):
that second part, that part B,of perhaps suggesting a
different activity if werealize, you know, maybe we
don't want to do that activity.
Maybe timings off that for thatactivity, but being able to
suggest an alternative activity,I really like that. And I think
we just had so many gems and somuch wisdom from Suzanne today,
if you are looking for coaching,or notice through this

(01:10:34):
conversation or just on your ownthat maybe you're wanting to
more deeply understand your ownboundaries, or work on being in
better communication aboutboundaries in your life and your
work, or just in general, Ihighly recommend checking out
Suzanne Colberg. You can findher on all the social media
platforms. She also has her ownpodcast. She wrote a book. I
will link everything in the shownotes for you. You heard me say

(01:10:57):
it so many times in thisepisode, I highly recommend her
newsletter. I have been reallyenjoying reading it, and I I
don't love reading everyone'snewsletters, if I'm quite
honest, but hers are short andentertaining, and there's a
truth that runs through themthat just really resonates with
me. So I hope you'll subscribeand let me know if you like them

(01:11:18):
as well. What were your biggesttakeaways from this episode? I
would love it if you would shareit with me. And I'd also love it
if you would share any topics orareas of the woo woo, or
luminaries or spiritual giftsthat you want to hear about. I'm
always open to hearing aboutwhat you want to learn about or
dive into next you can alwaysemail us admin at joyful

(01:11:41):
medium.com and share yourthoughts about this episode or
what you would like to hearabout in a future episode. Most
of you know I do the freemonthly community healings. I
also do a weekly reading andenergy check every week, which
releases on Friday. If you'renot already on my email list,
suggest going to my website,joyful medium.com, there's a

(01:12:01):
free course right on the homepage called sign magnet. If you
drop your info in there, youwill get on the mailing list,
and you can start coming toeither free events, getting the
readings, getting access to thepodcast just a slightly bit
earlier. And I'm so grateful tohave you as a part of our
community, whether it's for afew minutes or for many years.

(01:12:22):
Big hugs. Lots of love. Bye fornow, from inside Spirit speak
easy.

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