March 17, 2025 • 24 mins
ABS Special Events Licensing Manager Roddy Aguirre and Parks Activation Director Mike Coppersmith join host Jocelyn Rawat to discuss upcoming Montgomery Parks festivals with alcohol, Parks rental facilities, and the ABS special events licensing program. Play along as guests take a quiz about which events need a license. Wedding reception? Block party? Concert? HOA meeting? Grand opening? The answers might surprise you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to Spirited Discussions, a podcast by
Alcohol Beverage Services,exploring alcohol products,
trends, and policies inMontgomery County.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
Thanks for joining us.
I'm your host, Jocelyn Rawat.
And today our guests are goingto help us understand alcohol
service at special events likefestivals, fundraisers, and
personal celebrations.
So do these events need analcohol license?
And if so, what kind?
What are the host'sresponsibilities?
So to help us with that, fromABS, we have Community Outreach
(00:32):
Manager, Radhi Aguirre.
And Radhi oversees the SpecialEvents Licensing Program and
supervises a team of inspectorsthat help organizers have
successful events.
So welcome, Roddy.
SPEAKER_03 (00:43):
Hey, good to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
So we're also joined by Mike Coppersmith, who is the
director of Parks Activation forMontgomery Parks.
Mike's Activation team isresponsible for creating
signature regional and localspecial events in parks across
Montgomery County.
So hi, Mike.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Hi, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
So Mike, I want to start with you.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about Montgomery Parks and
the special events that youhost?
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
Yeah, so Montgomery Park's a pretty diverse park
system.
We have 419 parks in MontgomeryCounty, so there's literally
room for events and programs nomatter where you live, work, or
play in the county.
That's over 37,000 acres,roughly, of parkland.
One of the driving forces forMontgomery Parks and our events
(01:26):
is to create social interactionsand connections through events.
That's kind of one of ourdriving visions for the parks.
And so we do that through oursignature local and regional
events.
The Parks Activation Team, whichI'm part of, is just one of the
many groups who do activities inparks.
There's really something foreverybody.
We have our Brookside Gardensdoes events and programming, our
(01:48):
nature centers, our historicalfacilities.
So we've really got kind of awide swath of land to cover.
And we put out a lot ofdifferent types of events.
Some of those events are lastMay.
We did our signature, ourinaugural Sligo Creek Fest down
(02:08):
on the Sligo Creek Parkway downin Silver Spring.
We do the Parks Ale Trailannually at Rock Creek Regional
Park in Lake Needwood.
The Harvest Fest at theMontgomery County Agricultural
Park.
And then, you know, this yearwe've got the butterfly
experience, which is coming backto Brookside gardens, uh, the
garden lights at Brooksidegardens and, um, you know,
Josiah Henson and museum do, uh,events throughout the year as
(02:30):
well.
So there really is, uh,depending on what your interest
and background is, you know,Montgomery parks probably has an
event or program that would be,uh, be of interest to you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Wow.
That's even more comprehensivethan I had realized.
And I thought it wascomprehensive.
Okay.
So which of these special eventsinvolve alcohol?
SPEAKER_02 (02:46):
So, uh, We've got a fair amount that involve
alcohol.
One of our more popular ones isthe Acoustics and Ales series.
And so that pairs togetheracoustic musical performances
and then working with a fewlocal breweries, meaderies to
provide the alcohol content atthe event.
So we've got one coming up onApril 4th at Elm Street Urban
(03:10):
Park.
And then in May, we'll be downat Flower Avenue Urban Park in
Tacoma Park.
And, you know, there we try topair, you know, food and drink
together with, you know, thelocal community, food vendors.
And then Sligo Creek Fest, whichis our, you know, will be in the
second year this year.
That's on May 3rd.
And that really highlights theopen parkway program in
(03:32):
Montgomery County.
So we basically almost a wholemile of the open parkway is
closed.
Sligo Creek Parkway from DennisAvenue to University Boulevard.
And again, We have a couplestages of entertainment.
We're going to have five or sixdifferent breweries this year,
seven or eight different foodvendors, and also about 15-plus
(03:53):
Montgomery Parks and planningorganizations that really
highlight the work that's goingon in the county.
One of the most importantingredients in beer is water.
So the resource analysis team isdown there.
Last year, they were doingelectrofishing to look at what's
in our waterways, a nice tie-inwith beer.
see the eels and everything thatare actually living in the
creek, something I was not awareof.
(04:14):
I won't be walking in the creekknowing that now.
But there's a lot of differentstuff, kids activities and
entertainment down there.
And then the Parks Ale Trail,which I mentioned, Lake
Meadwood, Rock Creek RegionalPark.
Beer is a focus of the event,but it also ties in hiking.
And so we have two differentareas.
We have kind of the mainfestival area with a large stage
(04:35):
of entertainment, beer vendors,food vendors, and then there's
an over one mile hike to wherethe Needwood mansion is over
near the Needwood golf course.
So wraps around the lake andthere's some onsite activities
and activation.
We had roving entertainers lastyear, accordion player, a living
statue that kind of popped outof people on the trail and then
(04:56):
another beer garden over there.
And so it's really kind of a wayto highlight the amenities.
You know, we talked about thediverse parks in the County, the
rockery, you know, Lake Needwoodand you know, have alcohol as
part of the event, but notnecessarily the sole focus of
the event.
So you can come have a beer, goon a hike.
The kids can go tree climbingwith our arborist.
(05:17):
There's a lot of differentactivities to kind of get
involved in for that.
So those are just a few of ouractivities that highlight beer
at the parks.
SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
Yeah, so I want to kind of carry on from that.
You talked about alcohol being apart of the event, but not
necessarily the event itself.
And I don't necessarily rememberparks events having alcohol.
alcohol over the years?
Is this something that's new?
How or why has Montgomery Parksevolved to include alcohol in
its events?
Is this something that peopleare asking for?
(05:44):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
I think it's something we're hearing from the
public and they're asking for.
I think one of the things thatwe noticed, I've been at
Montgomery Parks just over threeyears now, and coming out of
COVID, during COVID, we saw thebreweries around the county You
know, people were coming out oftheir homes and looking for a
(06:06):
way to get outdoors.
And so we saw that definitely inthe parks throughout the county
through our parks visitation.
We saw numbers, you know, gothrough the roof.
I think the brewery saw that aswell.
If you had an outdoor space, ifyou had an indoor space, more
industrial, it maybe wasn't as,you know, the return wasn't
wasn't necessarily there as anoutside space.
(06:27):
And so taking kind of elementsfrom those outside breweries and
then bringing people into thepark space.
That's really what theactivation team is tasked with
is just bringing people intothese parks.
And sometimes they've beenunder-programmed or haven't been
used for events before.
So looking at those parks andbringing them in there.
To answer your question aboutwhat the public's asking for,
one of the pieces of feedback iswe had our summer concert series
(06:49):
last year and we didn't havealcohol at all of those
concerts.
And we were getting feedbackfrom our attendees that, you
know, we would like to have anoption of, you know, having a
beer, having a glass of wine atthese events and knowing that
with the regulations, you can'tbring it, Roddy, from the
outside is that you've got to,you know, we need to offer it on
(07:10):
site and have those protocols inplace.
That's one of the changes thatwe're making for this year.
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
Okay.
So I imagine that the part ofthe reason that this is popular
in the parks department is thatthat people know that it's going
to be a safe environment.
So can you talk a little bitmore about what Montgomery Parks
is doing to make sure that youare serving alcohol responsibly?
SPEAKER_02 (07:30):
Yeah.
So, I mean, I think, you know,we have an obligation to be a
responsible host.
I mean, I think we want toexecute our events.
We want the attendees, you know,attendees, staff, vendors,
participants, everyone to have asafe, enjoyable time and be
accessible.
We try to take a close look atthe type of events that we're
doing.
So it makes sure that it fitsfor what kind of our
(07:51):
organization mission is and kindof the directive, you know, from
our leadership and that it'sgoing to put parks in a positive
light and result and servingalcohol responsibly is a huge
part of that.
One of the other things we'lllook at is what are the hours of
our event?
You know, traditionally ouracoustics and ales will be five
to seven 30 at night.
If it's a, if it's a eveningone, 11 to two, if it's during
(08:13):
the day.
So not going into all hours ofthe night.
Making sure that if there'sgoing to be alcohol at an event,
that there is an opportunity forfood purchases, that we've got a
wide variety of food so peoplearen't just consuming beer, that
they've got food alternatives inthat.
Working with the vendors in thealcohol community in Montgomery
(08:35):
County at the differentbreweries, making sure that
they've kind of got the samevision in terms of serving
responsibly that we do.
And so coordinating kind of whatour expectations are, serving
times, wristbanding, IDing, allof those things that kind of go
into that.
We'll look at the design of theevent and the content, making
(08:56):
sure that the content isappropriate for the event,
making sure people know thatthere is no outside alcohol
before they come.
And having staff visible on siteis kind of key as well, is that
You know, staff just easilyidentifiable, walking the
perimeter of the event, makingsure people aren't taking it
outside of the different areas.
And then if they have aquestion, they can find staff.
(09:19):
And having a solid relationshipfor us with our park police
department, you know, really apartner for the event.
They're in tune with what we'redoing, what our hours are, what
our safety plans are.
As part of the permittingprocess and submitting, you
know, our license application tothe commissioners, is developing
an event safety plan.
(09:41):
What protocols are we puttinginto place?
How are we going to make surethat it is 21 and over?
We have to stop serving early.
Kind of all the differentvariables that would go into
that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:51):
And how do you make sure that people are 21 and
older?
I heard you say wrist banding.
Are you checking at the gate orwhat's happening?
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
Yeah, so depending on the...
One of the unique things aboutour events is that we are
completely out in the open.
We're not in a facility...
So we don't have the benefit ofwalls and doors.
So trying to replicate that asbest we can.
So we'll do wristbanding whereit's appropriate, but then also
ensuring that the vendors arechecking IDs at their sales
(10:19):
areas as well.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Okay.
So if you're attending a parksevent, do bring your ID.
Don't bring your own personalalcohol.
SPEAKER_02 (10:25):
Correct.
UNKNOWN (10:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Okay.
So, Roddy.
There are lots of differenttypes of alcohol licenses for
lots of different types ofthings that people are doing in
Montgomery County.
But for the purposes of today'sdiscussions, I just want to talk
about the ones that governspecial events, meaning things
that occur once or over thecourse of just a couple of days.
So what are the special eventslicenses?
SPEAKER_04 (10:48):
So, I mean, I just want to give a kudos to Mike and
his team over at Montgomery ParkState.
Do a phenomenal job.
I think, you know, every classhas a model student and parks
would be
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
one of those.
I can see that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:59):
They, I mean, they just do a phenomenal job in
making sure that they'refollowing an alcohol plan and
they do their best to work withvendors as well as to work with
our offices.
But to your question to one daysand festivals, these are
licenses that are given tononprofits that want to have an
event where there's going to bean alcohol event.
It's either served or beingsold.
And specifically, there's atransaction of money and it's
(11:21):
open to the public.
So Acoustics and Ales or theAles Trail, those are events
that are open to the publicwhere people can come in and
listen to music and have a glassof beer if they want.
But in order to do that, theyneed to have a license.
So The difference between a oneday and a festival license is a
one day, the nonprofit isactually going to be doing the
sales of the alcohol, where in afestival license, the nonprofit
(11:43):
is going to be hosting differentvendors to be able to sell that
alcohol.
So for example, MontgomeryParks, they have their acoustics
and nails and they'll bringvendors, whether that's a state
approved vendor or one of thevendors that we have here in
Montgomery County, they focus onwho the vendor will be and they
will actually bring thosevendors in.
One days are your typicalnon-profits.
(12:04):
You can think even of likehomeowners association or
churches that want to have anevent.
So say they have a house ofworship that wants to have a
bingo night and they want tohave wine as well.
Well, they would have to applyfor a one day license because
that event would be open to thepublic and there'll be a
transaction of money for thealcohol being consumed.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
Okay.
So your team is responsible foreducation, administration, and
regulation of these types oflicenses, but you don't actually
approve the licenses.
Is that right?
That's the liquor board?
SPEAKER_04 (12:33):
Yeah, that is 100% correct.
So we process thoseapplications.
We help to develop the alcoholplan in case somebody needs an
alcohol plan.
We help to regulate it when wedo an inspection.
So we educate all of our onedays and festival licensees But
ultimately, it is the Board ofLicensed Commissioners that
approves those licenses.
So the Board of LicensedCommissioners is a
quasi-judicial board that isactually appointed by the county
(12:55):
executive.
And so there are five memberswho sit in a hearing room and
they hear all of these one daysand festival applications and
they will approve them.
So that is why we ask everysingle person who's applying for
a one day or a festival licenseto submit it 14 days in advance
because it needs to be approvedby the board and the board only
meets twice a month.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
Okay.
Well, that's interesting.
So I'm thinking about that.
You're talking about nonprofitorganizations and the liquor
board also approves licensesthat would be for a restaurant
or a beer and wine store,somebody who is more of a
professional in the alcoholindustry.
So you're going to assume thatsomeone who runs a restaurant
has some level of expertise inserving alcohol.
(13:35):
But someone who works in anonprofit organization or who is
a volunteer in their communityassociation, that person might
not necessarily be an expert inserving alcohol.
So what do you do to make surethat someone who means well
actually has the skills to dowell when it comes to serving
alcohol responsibly?
SPEAKER_04 (13:54):
That's a great question.
So we educate, educate, educate.
Whenever an application comesin, my team reviews the
application and they see thatthey have to submit an alcohol
plan.
So they review that alcohol planand they use their skill set to
be able to say, yes, thisalcohol plan actually makes
sense.
So obviously, if you have anevent that's only 50 people, And
(14:16):
the 50 people includes children.
It's going to be very differentthan if you have an event that's
10,000 people where there's alsogoing to be children.
Right.
So if your alcohol plan for10,000 people is like, well,
we'll just check IDs.
We'll have a lot more questionsto ask because it's 10,000
people.
How are you going to secure theperimeter?
Right.
So like, for example, Montgomeryparks, you do a great job.
Obviously they're outdoors, butthey have signs around the
(14:37):
perimeter that says no alcoholbeyond this point.
So we want to see things likethat.
Of course, you know, The bestway to learn is to get educated.
And so my team actually goes outand do the inspections.
In case there's something thatneeds to be rectified, in case
there's some sort ofmiscommunication, my team will
actually go there and justeducate the licensee or the
(14:57):
festival holder of the licenseso that they can actually
address the issue while theevent is happening.
And then the next time theyapply, they are ready and set
with that added educationalpiece on their part.
SPEAKER_01 (15:09):
Okay.
So that's good to know you'reactually on site.
It's not just set it and forgetit.
Correct.
You're there making sure thatthere's some compliance
happening.
SPEAKER_02 (15:15):
I think too, if I could just add, you know, I
think that's been one of thebenefits for us is that it's the
relationship with ABS and theinspectors and that it's not
from a, we got you standpoint.
It's a, what are you seeing?
What do you recommend for us?
And what can we do better?
You know, we have our events andwe try to get out to other
people's events and check outwhat the Roddy and the team, you
(15:38):
know, they're at events andprograms throughout the county.
So be able to provide thatfeedback to us is extremely
beneficial.
Love a good partnership.
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
So I want to go back to the beginning of this
conversation where you said thata license is needed any time
that someone is selling alcohol,but that private events don't
need a license.
And that seems like it should bestraightforward.
But when you start addingspecial circumstances and other
types of parameters, I think itisn't always so clear.
So would you mind playing alittle game with me where I give
(16:08):
you some scenarios and you tellme if it's going to need a
license or not?
Yeah, let's do it.
Okay.
And Mike, you can play alongtoo.
I think you might know some ofthese answers since you're a
power user of the program.
SPEAKER_02 (16:18):
I'll do my best.
There you go.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
All right.
So in the first scenario, ahomeowners association is having
a cocktail reception in thecommunity clubhouse after the
annual meeting to welcome newmembers.
They're providing one drink perperson.
SPEAKER_04 (16:34):
Yeah, it seems like you would need a license, but
actually because it's an eventwhere they're only providing one
drink per person only to thosemembers, it is a technically a
private event.
So they wouldn't have to have alicense for that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:45):
It's a private event.
Okay.
So sticking with the homeownersassociation, because I think
this is a lot of times whereit's not necessarily so clear.
Let's say that now they're goingto have a street festival to
celebrate the community'sfounding.
And as a part of the streetfestival, they plan to have
children's activities, craftvendors, and a local restaurant
(17:06):
that's going to be selling foodalong with their signature
margaritas.
SPEAKER_04 (17:10):
Oh, yeah.
Not only would they need analcohol license, but they
probably want to talk to DPS aswell to get a few more licenses.
It's open to the public, right?
There's a street festival, so wewould require a festival license
for that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Okay.
And if they need help, they cancome and talk to Mike.
Okay.
Okay.
So switching gears, let's saythat a couple is having a
wedding reception in theirbackyard.
They've invited 50 guests andthe family plans to do all of
the cooking and bartendingthemselves.
SPEAKER_04 (17:36):
Yeah, we actually get this question asked a lot.
They call our offices and theyask, hey, I've been told that I
need a liquor license.
And we asked them, what type ofevent are you having?
And most of the time they say,well, we're having a wedding and
it's, you know, it's a privateguest list.
We're like, hey, well, that'skind of your answer because it's
a private event.
You don't need a license.
some of these venues willrequire is to have an alcohol
(17:58):
license of some sort.
And so what we tell them is,hey, we can give you a license,
but, you know, try to reach outto a caterer so they can provide
the alcohol for you.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
So let's say this same wedding reception, instead
of having in the backyard,they're going to have it at
Brookside Gardens.
Does that change anything?
SPEAKER_04 (18:14):
Yeah.
So, you know, because it's adifferent place, even though
it's going to be held in adifferent place, it is still
technically a private event.
Now, some places that Somevenues that host wedding
receptions or other sort ofgatherings, they might require
an additional license that couldcome from as a caterer's
license, but they wouldn'tnecessarily need a one-day or a
festival license from us.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Okay, so if it were at Brookside Gardens, then I
assume that Montgomery Parkswould have some of your own
regulations in place.
SPEAKER_02 (18:42):
Yeah, so this is something that comes up at
Brookside Gardens a lot becausethey do do a lot of weddings and
celebrations, retirement partiesthere.
And so one of the requirementsat Brookside is that you hire a
professional bartender, providea TIP certification, to make
sure that they're certified toserve the alcohol.
We don't allow clients andguests to serve alcohol
themselves.
And then one of the additionalthings is there's an event
(19:05):
coordinator there that'll helpyou navigate the process
depending on what you want to doat Brookside Gardens to work
with the licensing.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Okay.
And that's probably fairlytypical.
I would think of private venues,right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:15):
That's correct.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (19:16):
Okay.
All right.
So this is the one I think of aslike the double jeopardy
scenario because there's a lotinvolved in it.
So let's say that we have afresh up-and-coming band that's
working with a promoter.
And together, they've rented aprivate event space for a
concert.
They plan to charge admission atthe door and have a cash bar.
SPEAKER_04 (19:36):
Yeah, there's a lot of layers there, right?
So first, it's an up-and-comingband.
We want to support our bands,right?
Especially if you were in agarage band like I was back in
the day.
But the reality is that it's nota nonprofit, right?
Because there's no nonprofitthere, even though they're
wanting to get funds forsomething, they cannot get a
one-day license.
They cannot get a festivallicense for us.
(19:58):
So though they are planning tocharge, which is what one of the
requirements for a one-daylicense would be, because
they're a nonprofit, theywouldn't qualify for a one-day
license or for a festivallicense.
So typically what we would do iswe would refer them to, hey,
have you thought about bringingsome sort of licensee with
Montgomery County to help youwith the process and to help you
with the alcohol sales here?
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Okay, so maybe it could be a couple of ways that
they could go with that.
Not that they can't have theirconsort, but they could partner
with somebody who has an annuallicense, like a restaurant.
Correct.
Or they could probably partnerwith a nonprofit, right?
SPEAKER_04 (20:31):
Yeah, they could also partner with a nonprofit if
they want to do
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
that.
Raise funds for cats and dogs orsomething like that, right?
Okay.
All right, so I'm on to the lastscenario here.
So let's say that a house ofworship is hosting a wine
tasting event to raise money foryouth programs.
They're selling tickets inadvance.
of the event.
And those tickets include snacksand two glasses of wine.
SPEAKER_04 (20:54):
That sounds like an awesome event and kudos to them
for doing something like that.
Because they're selling thetickets, right?
There's already a transaction ofmoney over there and the ticket
price actually giving you twoglasses of wine.
So by definition, they are doinga transaction of alcohol because
the house of worship and mostlikely will be a nonprofit and
therefore they would need to geta one day license for us.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
Okay.
So yeah.
So as we think through thesescenarios, The answers really
aren't necessarily so easy.
So if people are still unsureabout their events, what can
they do to learn more?
SPEAKER_04 (21:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
So they can go to our website,montgomerycountymd.gov slash
abs, but they absolutely cancall 240-777-1999.
And they will actually get tospeak to one of our community
outreach inspectors who worktheir nine to five on processing
these applications.
They can ask more specific andnuanced questions for their
(21:49):
specific event.
SPEAKER_02 (21:51):
And I can vouch for that, that they will answer the
phone and they will call youback and provide answers that
you need.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Okay, that's good.
That's always
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
good to hear.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
So Mike, so I'm wanting to come to all of these
events that you've mentioned,but that was a lot and we've
only been talking about it for afew minutes and I've already
forgotten because the list is solong.
So what's the best way to stayinformed about upcoming events?
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
We have a very active social media, Facebook
and Instagram.
It's at Montgomery Parks.
Montgomeryparks.org online has acalendar listing of all of the
events.
Everything from Nature Center toBrookside Gardens to park
activation events to anythingthat's happening in the parks
will be on those calendars.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
OK, and what about renting the parks for special
events like we talked about withthe retirement parties or the
weddings or something like that?
How would people go aboutrenting an event where they
would want to serve alcohol?
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
So we have Brookside Gardens, which you could, you
know, from that from MontgomeryParks dot org, you can reach out
to Brookside Gardens from theirpage.
We also we have a couple ofdifferent event centers.
We have Rockwood Manor and thelodge at Seneca Creek.
You know, those are more weddingtype facilities for those
retirement parties.
The other thing we do is we havepark activity buildings, which
for birthday party celebrationskind of fit.
(23:08):
You know, they're scatteredthroughout the county in
different park locations.
And for those, you can contactour permits office.
They'll also navigate youthrough the through the
permitting process as well withwhat Montgomery Parks
requirements are as well.
And you can contact them at301-495-7000.
2525 and they'll get you headedin the right direction.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
Okay.
Lots of ways to have fun.
Thank you, Roddy Aguirre andMike Coppersmith for
participating in today'sspirited discussion.
SPEAKER_02 (23:34):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
If there's a topic you'd like us to cover on the
podcast, email us atabs.spiriteddiscussions at
montgomerycountymd.gov.
And thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_00 (23:48):
Alcohol Beverage Services is the alcohol
wholesaler of beer, wine, andspirits for Montgomery County,
and it operates neighborhoodretail stores.
ABS also manages alcohollicensing, enforcement, and
education for more than 1,000businesses.
Its profits are used to pay forresident services that otherwise
(24:09):
would be funded by county taxdollars.
This podcast is brought to youby County Cable Montgomery, your
source for news and informationfrom the Montgomery County
Government.
Connect with us via cable,Facebook, Instagram or YouTube
by searching for County CableMoCo.
Welcome to Spirited Discussions, a podcast by
Alcohol Beverage Services,exploring alcohol products,
trends, and policies inMontgomery County.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
Thanks for joining us.
I'm your host, Jocelyn Rawat.
And today our guests are goingto help us understand alcohol
service at special events likefestivals, fundraisers, and
personal celebrations.
So do these events need analcohol license?
And if so, what kind?
What are the host'sresponsibilities?
So to help us with that, fromABS, we have Community Outreach
(00:32):
Manager, Radhi Aguirre.
And Radhi oversees the SpecialEvents Licensing Program and
supervises a team of inspectorsthat help organizers have
successful events.
So welcome, Roddy.
SPEAKER_03 (00:43):
Hey, good to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
So we're also joined by Mike Coppersmith, who is the
director of Parks Activation forMontgomery Parks.
Mike's Activation team isresponsible for creating
signature regional and localspecial events in parks across
Montgomery County.
So hi, Mike.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Hi, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
So Mike, I want to start with you.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about Montgomery Parks and
the special events that youhost?
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
Yeah, so Montgomery Park's a pretty diverse park
system.
We have 419 parks in MontgomeryCounty, so there's literally
room for events and programs nomatter where you live, work, or
play in the county.
That's over 37,000 acres,roughly, of parkland.
One of the driving forces forMontgomery Parks and our events
(01:26):
is to create social interactionsand connections through events.
That's kind of one of ourdriving visions for the parks.
And so we do that through oursignature local and regional
events.
The Parks Activation Team, whichI'm part of, is just one of the
many groups who do activities inparks.
There's really something foreverybody.
We have our Brookside Gardensdoes events and programming, our
(01:48):
nature centers, our historicalfacilities.
So we've really got kind of awide swath of land to cover.
And we put out a lot ofdifferent types of events.
Some of those events are lastMay.
We did our signature, ourinaugural Sligo Creek Fest down
(02:08):
on the Sligo Creek Parkway downin Silver Spring.
We do the Parks Ale Trailannually at Rock Creek Regional
Park in Lake Needwood.
The Harvest Fest at theMontgomery County Agricultural
Park.
And then, you know, this yearwe've got the butterfly
experience, which is coming backto Brookside gardens, uh, the
garden lights at Brooksidegardens and, um, you know,
Josiah Henson and museum do, uh,events throughout the year as
(02:30):
well.
So there really is, uh,depending on what your interest
and background is, you know,Montgomery parks probably has an
event or program that would be,uh, be of interest to you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Wow.
That's even more comprehensivethan I had realized.
And I thought it wascomprehensive.
Okay.
So which of these special eventsinvolve alcohol?
SPEAKER_02 (02:46):
So, uh, We've got a fair amount that involve
alcohol.
One of our more popular ones isthe Acoustics and Ales series.
And so that pairs togetheracoustic musical performances
and then working with a fewlocal breweries, meaderies to
provide the alcohol content atthe event.
So we've got one coming up onApril 4th at Elm Street Urban
(03:10):
Park.
And then in May, we'll be downat Flower Avenue Urban Park in
Tacoma Park.
And, you know, there we try topair, you know, food and drink
together with, you know, thelocal community, food vendors.
And then Sligo Creek Fest, whichis our, you know, will be in the
second year this year.
That's on May 3rd.
And that really highlights theopen parkway program in
(03:32):
Montgomery County.
So we basically almost a wholemile of the open parkway is
closed.
Sligo Creek Parkway from DennisAvenue to University Boulevard.
And again, We have a couplestages of entertainment.
We're going to have five or sixdifferent breweries this year,
seven or eight different foodvendors, and also about 15-plus
(03:53):
Montgomery Parks and planningorganizations that really
highlight the work that's goingon in the county.
One of the most importantingredients in beer is water.
So the resource analysis team isdown there.
Last year, they were doingelectrofishing to look at what's
in our waterways, a nice tie-inwith beer.
see the eels and everything thatare actually living in the
creek, something I was not awareof.
(04:14):
I won't be walking in the creekknowing that now.
But there's a lot of differentstuff, kids activities and
entertainment down there.
And then the Parks Ale Trail,which I mentioned, Lake
Meadwood, Rock Creek RegionalPark.
Beer is a focus of the event,but it also ties in hiking.
And so we have two differentareas.
We have kind of the mainfestival area with a large stage
(04:35):
of entertainment, beer vendors,food vendors, and then there's
an over one mile hike to wherethe Needwood mansion is over
near the Needwood golf course.
So wraps around the lake andthere's some onsite activities
and activation.
We had roving entertainers lastyear, accordion player, a living
statue that kind of popped outof people on the trail and then
(04:56):
another beer garden over there.
And so it's really kind of a wayto highlight the amenities.
You know, we talked about thediverse parks in the County, the
rockery, you know, Lake Needwoodand you know, have alcohol as
part of the event, but notnecessarily the sole focus of
the event.
So you can come have a beer, goon a hike.
The kids can go tree climbingwith our arborist.
(05:17):
There's a lot of differentactivities to kind of get
involved in for that.
So those are just a few of ouractivities that highlight beer
at the parks.
SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
Yeah, so I want to kind of carry on from that.
You talked about alcohol being apart of the event, but not
necessarily the event itself.
And I don't necessarily rememberparks events having alcohol.
alcohol over the years?
Is this something that's new?
How or why has Montgomery Parksevolved to include alcohol in
its events?
Is this something that peopleare asking for?
(05:44):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
I think it's something we're hearing from the
public and they're asking for.
I think one of the things thatwe noticed, I've been at
Montgomery Parks just over threeyears now, and coming out of
COVID, during COVID, we saw thebreweries around the county You
know, people were coming out oftheir homes and looking for a
(06:06):
way to get outdoors.
And so we saw that definitely inthe parks throughout the county
through our parks visitation.
We saw numbers, you know, gothrough the roof.
I think the brewery saw that aswell.
If you had an outdoor space, ifyou had an indoor space, more
industrial, it maybe wasn't as,you know, the return wasn't
wasn't necessarily there as anoutside space.
(06:27):
And so taking kind of elementsfrom those outside breweries and
then bringing people into thepark space.
That's really what theactivation team is tasked with
is just bringing people intothese parks.
And sometimes they've beenunder-programmed or haven't been
used for events before.
So looking at those parks andbringing them in there.
To answer your question aboutwhat the public's asking for,
one of the pieces of feedback iswe had our summer concert series
(06:49):
last year and we didn't havealcohol at all of those
concerts.
And we were getting feedbackfrom our attendees that, you
know, we would like to have anoption of, you know, having a
beer, having a glass of wine atthese events and knowing that
with the regulations, you can'tbring it, Roddy, from the
outside is that you've got to,you know, we need to offer it on
(07:10):
site and have those protocols inplace.
That's one of the changes thatwe're making for this year.
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
Okay.
So I imagine that the part ofthe reason that this is popular
in the parks department is thatthat people know that it's going
to be a safe environment.
So can you talk a little bitmore about what Montgomery Parks
is doing to make sure that youare serving alcohol responsibly?
SPEAKER_02 (07:30):
Yeah.
So, I mean, I think, you know,we have an obligation to be a
responsible host.
I mean, I think we want toexecute our events.
We want the attendees, you know,attendees, staff, vendors,
participants, everyone to have asafe, enjoyable time and be
accessible.
We try to take a close look atthe type of events that we're
doing.
So it makes sure that it fitsfor what kind of our
(07:51):
organization mission is and kindof the directive, you know, from
our leadership and that it'sgoing to put parks in a positive
light and result and servingalcohol responsibly is a huge
part of that.
One of the other things we'lllook at is what are the hours of
our event?
You know, traditionally ouracoustics and ales will be five
to seven 30 at night.
If it's a, if it's a eveningone, 11 to two, if it's during
(08:13):
the day.
So not going into all hours ofthe night.
Making sure that if there'sgoing to be alcohol at an event,
that there is an opportunity forfood purchases, that we've got a
wide variety of food so peoplearen't just consuming beer, that
they've got food alternatives inthat.
Working with the vendors in thealcohol community in Montgomery
(08:35):
County at the differentbreweries, making sure that
they've kind of got the samevision in terms of serving
responsibly that we do.
And so coordinating kind of whatour expectations are, serving
times, wristbanding, IDing, allof those things that kind of go
into that.
We'll look at the design of theevent and the content, making
(08:56):
sure that the content isappropriate for the event,
making sure people know thatthere is no outside alcohol
before they come.
And having staff visible on siteis kind of key as well, is that
You know, staff just easilyidentifiable, walking the
perimeter of the event, makingsure people aren't taking it
outside of the different areas.
And then if they have aquestion, they can find staff.
(09:19):
And having a solid relationshipfor us with our park police
department, you know, really apartner for the event.
They're in tune with what we'redoing, what our hours are, what
our safety plans are.
As part of the permittingprocess and submitting, you
know, our license application tothe commissioners, is developing
an event safety plan.
(09:41):
What protocols are we puttinginto place?
How are we going to make surethat it is 21 and over?
We have to stop serving early.
Kind of all the differentvariables that would go into
that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:51):
And how do you make sure that people are 21 and
older?
I heard you say wrist banding.
Are you checking at the gate orwhat's happening?
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
Yeah, so depending on the...
One of the unique things aboutour events is that we are
completely out in the open.
We're not in a facility...
So we don't have the benefit ofwalls and doors.
So trying to replicate that asbest we can.
So we'll do wristbanding whereit's appropriate, but then also
ensuring that the vendors arechecking IDs at their sales
(10:19):
areas as well.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Okay.
So if you're attending a parksevent, do bring your ID.
Don't bring your own personalalcohol.
SPEAKER_02 (10:25):
Correct.
UNKNOWN (10:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Okay.
So, Roddy.
There are lots of differenttypes of alcohol licenses for
lots of different types ofthings that people are doing in
Montgomery County.
But for the purposes of today'sdiscussions, I just want to talk
about the ones that governspecial events, meaning things
that occur once or over thecourse of just a couple of days.
So what are the special eventslicenses?
SPEAKER_04 (10:48):
So, I mean, I just want to give a kudos to Mike and
his team over at Montgomery ParkState.
Do a phenomenal job.
I think, you know, every classhas a model student and parks
would be
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
one of those.
I can see that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:59):
They, I mean, they just do a phenomenal job in
making sure that they'refollowing an alcohol plan and
they do their best to work withvendors as well as to work with
our offices.
But to your question to one daysand festivals, these are
licenses that are given tononprofits that want to have an
event where there's going to bean alcohol event.
It's either served or beingsold.
And specifically, there's atransaction of money and it's
(11:21):
open to the public.
So Acoustics and Ales or theAles Trail, those are events
that are open to the publicwhere people can come in and
listen to music and have a glassof beer if they want.
But in order to do that, theyneed to have a license.
So The difference between a oneday and a festival license is a
one day, the nonprofit isactually going to be doing the
sales of the alcohol, where in afestival license, the nonprofit
(11:43):
is going to be hosting differentvendors to be able to sell that
alcohol.
So for example, MontgomeryParks, they have their acoustics
and nails and they'll bringvendors, whether that's a state
approved vendor or one of thevendors that we have here in
Montgomery County, they focus onwho the vendor will be and they
will actually bring thosevendors in.
One days are your typicalnon-profits.
(12:04):
You can think even of likehomeowners association or
churches that want to have anevent.
So say they have a house ofworship that wants to have a
bingo night and they want tohave wine as well.
Well, they would have to applyfor a one day license because
that event would be open to thepublic and there'll be a
transaction of money for thealcohol being consumed.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
Okay.
So your team is responsible foreducation, administration, and
regulation of these types oflicenses, but you don't actually
approve the licenses.
Is that right?
That's the liquor board?
SPEAKER_04 (12:33):
Yeah, that is 100% correct.
So we process thoseapplications.
We help to develop the alcoholplan in case somebody needs an
alcohol plan.
We help to regulate it when wedo an inspection.
So we educate all of our onedays and festival licensees But
ultimately, it is the Board ofLicensed Commissioners that
approves those licenses.
So the Board of LicensedCommissioners is a
quasi-judicial board that isactually appointed by the county
(12:55):
executive.
And so there are five memberswho sit in a hearing room and
they hear all of these one daysand festival applications and
they will approve them.
So that is why we ask everysingle person who's applying for
a one day or a festival licenseto submit it 14 days in advance
because it needs to be approvedby the board and the board only
meets twice a month.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
Okay.
Well, that's interesting.
So I'm thinking about that.
You're talking about nonprofitorganizations and the liquor
board also approves licensesthat would be for a restaurant
or a beer and wine store,somebody who is more of a
professional in the alcoholindustry.
So you're going to assume thatsomeone who runs a restaurant
has some level of expertise inserving alcohol.
(13:35):
But someone who works in anonprofit organization or who is
a volunteer in their communityassociation, that person might
not necessarily be an expert inserving alcohol.
So what do you do to make surethat someone who means well
actually has the skills to dowell when it comes to serving
alcohol responsibly?
SPEAKER_04 (13:54):
That's a great question.
So we educate, educate, educate.
Whenever an application comesin, my team reviews the
application and they see thatthey have to submit an alcohol
plan.
So they review that alcohol planand they use their skill set to
be able to say, yes, thisalcohol plan actually makes
sense.
So obviously, if you have anevent that's only 50 people, And
(14:16):
the 50 people includes children.
It's going to be very differentthan if you have an event that's
10,000 people where there's alsogoing to be children.
Right.
So if your alcohol plan for10,000 people is like, well,
we'll just check IDs.
We'll have a lot more questionsto ask because it's 10,000
people.
How are you going to secure theperimeter?
Right.
So like, for example, Montgomeryparks, you do a great job.
Obviously they're outdoors, butthey have signs around the
(14:37):
perimeter that says no alcoholbeyond this point.
So we want to see things likethat.
Of course, you know, The bestway to learn is to get educated.
And so my team actually goes outand do the inspections.
In case there's something thatneeds to be rectified, in case
there's some sort ofmiscommunication, my team will
actually go there and justeducate the licensee or the
(14:57):
festival holder of the licenseso that they can actually
address the issue while theevent is happening.
And then the next time theyapply, they are ready and set
with that added educationalpiece on their part.
SPEAKER_01 (15:09):
Okay.
So that's good to know you'reactually on site.
It's not just set it and forgetit.
Correct.
You're there making sure thatthere's some compliance
happening.
SPEAKER_02 (15:15):
I think too, if I could just add, you know, I
think that's been one of thebenefits for us is that it's the
relationship with ABS and theinspectors and that it's not
from a, we got you standpoint.
It's a, what are you seeing?
What do you recommend for us?
And what can we do better?
You know, we have our events andwe try to get out to other
people's events and check outwhat the Roddy and the team, you
(15:38):
know, they're at events andprograms throughout the county.
So be able to provide thatfeedback to us is extremely
beneficial.
Love a good partnership.
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
So I want to go back to the beginning of this
conversation where you said thata license is needed any time
that someone is selling alcohol,but that private events don't
need a license.
And that seems like it should bestraightforward.
But when you start addingspecial circumstances and other
types of parameters, I think itisn't always so clear.
So would you mind playing alittle game with me where I give
(16:08):
you some scenarios and you tellme if it's going to need a
license or not?
Yeah, let's do it.
Okay.
And Mike, you can play alongtoo.
I think you might know some ofthese answers since you're a
power user of the program.
SPEAKER_02 (16:18):
I'll do my best.
There you go.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
All right.
So in the first scenario, ahomeowners association is having
a cocktail reception in thecommunity clubhouse after the
annual meeting to welcome newmembers.
They're providing one drink perperson.
SPEAKER_04 (16:34):
Yeah, it seems like you would need a license, but
actually because it's an eventwhere they're only providing one
drink per person only to thosemembers, it is a technically a
private event.
So they wouldn't have to have alicense for that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:45):
It's a private event.
Okay.
So sticking with the homeownersassociation, because I think
this is a lot of times whereit's not necessarily so clear.
Let's say that now they're goingto have a street festival to
celebrate the community'sfounding.
And as a part of the streetfestival, they plan to have
children's activities, craftvendors, and a local restaurant
(17:06):
that's going to be selling foodalong with their signature
margaritas.
SPEAKER_04 (17:10):
Oh, yeah.
Not only would they need analcohol license, but they
probably want to talk to DPS aswell to get a few more licenses.
It's open to the public, right?
There's a street festival, so wewould require a festival license
for that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Okay.
And if they need help, they cancome and talk to Mike.
Okay.
Okay.
So switching gears, let's saythat a couple is having a
wedding reception in theirbackyard.
They've invited 50 guests andthe family plans to do all of
the cooking and bartendingthemselves.
SPEAKER_04 (17:36):
Yeah, we actually get this question asked a lot.
They call our offices and theyask, hey, I've been told that I
need a liquor license.
And we asked them, what type ofevent are you having?
And most of the time they say,well, we're having a wedding and
it's, you know, it's a privateguest list.
We're like, hey, well, that'skind of your answer because it's
a private event.
You don't need a license.
some of these venues willrequire is to have an alcohol
(17:58):
license of some sort.
And so what we tell them is,hey, we can give you a license,
but, you know, try to reach outto a caterer so they can provide
the alcohol for you.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
So let's say this same wedding reception, instead
of having in the backyard,they're going to have it at
Brookside Gardens.
Does that change anything?
SPEAKER_04 (18:14):
Yeah.
So, you know, because it's adifferent place, even though
it's going to be held in adifferent place, it is still
technically a private event.
Now, some places that Somevenues that host wedding
receptions or other sort ofgatherings, they might require
an additional license that couldcome from as a caterer's
license, but they wouldn'tnecessarily need a one-day or a
festival license from us.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Okay, so if it were at Brookside Gardens, then I
assume that Montgomery Parkswould have some of your own
regulations in place.
SPEAKER_02 (18:42):
Yeah, so this is something that comes up at
Brookside Gardens a lot becausethey do do a lot of weddings and
celebrations, retirement partiesthere.
And so one of the requirementsat Brookside is that you hire a
professional bartender, providea TIP certification, to make
sure that they're certified toserve the alcohol.
We don't allow clients andguests to serve alcohol
themselves.
And then one of the additionalthings is there's an event
(19:05):
coordinator there that'll helpyou navigate the process
depending on what you want to doat Brookside Gardens to work
with the licensing.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Okay.
And that's probably fairlytypical.
I would think of private venues,right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:15):
That's correct.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (19:16):
Okay.
All right.
So this is the one I think of aslike the double jeopardy
scenario because there's a lotinvolved in it.
So let's say that we have afresh up-and-coming band that's
working with a promoter.
And together, they've rented aprivate event space for a
concert.
They plan to charge admission atthe door and have a cash bar.
SPEAKER_04 (19:36):
Yeah, there's a lot of layers there, right?
So first, it's an up-and-comingband.
We want to support our bands,right?
Especially if you were in agarage band like I was back in
the day.
But the reality is that it's nota nonprofit, right?
Because there's no nonprofitthere, even though they're
wanting to get funds forsomething, they cannot get a
one-day license.
They cannot get a festivallicense for us.
(19:58):
So though they are planning tocharge, which is what one of the
requirements for a one-daylicense would be, because
they're a nonprofit, theywouldn't qualify for a one-day
license or for a festivallicense.
So typically what we would do iswe would refer them to, hey,
have you thought about bringingsome sort of licensee with
Montgomery County to help youwith the process and to help you
with the alcohol sales here?
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Okay, so maybe it could be a couple of ways that
they could go with that.
Not that they can't have theirconsort, but they could partner
with somebody who has an annuallicense, like a restaurant.
Correct.
Or they could probably partnerwith a nonprofit, right?
SPEAKER_04 (20:31):
Yeah, they could also partner with a nonprofit if
they want to do
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
that.
Raise funds for cats and dogs orsomething like that, right?
Okay.
All right, so I'm on to the lastscenario here.
So let's say that a house ofworship is hosting a wine
tasting event to raise money foryouth programs.
They're selling tickets inadvance.
of the event.
And those tickets include snacksand two glasses of wine.
SPEAKER_04 (20:54):
That sounds like an awesome event and kudos to them
for doing something like that.
Because they're selling thetickets, right?
There's already a transaction ofmoney over there and the ticket
price actually giving you twoglasses of wine.
So by definition, they are doinga transaction of alcohol because
the house of worship and mostlikely will be a nonprofit and
therefore they would need to geta one day license for us.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
Okay.
So yeah.
So as we think through thesescenarios, The answers really
aren't necessarily so easy.
So if people are still unsureabout their events, what can
they do to learn more?
SPEAKER_04 (21:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
So they can go to our website,montgomerycountymd.gov slash
abs, but they absolutely cancall 240-777-1999.
And they will actually get tospeak to one of our community
outreach inspectors who worktheir nine to five on processing
these applications.
They can ask more specific andnuanced questions for their
(21:49):
specific event.
SPEAKER_02 (21:51):
And I can vouch for that, that they will answer the
phone and they will call youback and provide answers that
you need.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Okay, that's good.
That's always
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
good to hear.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
So Mike, so I'm wanting to come to all of these
events that you've mentioned,but that was a lot and we've
only been talking about it for afew minutes and I've already
forgotten because the list is solong.
So what's the best way to stayinformed about upcoming events?
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
We have a very active social media, Facebook
and Instagram.
It's at Montgomery Parks.
Montgomeryparks.org online has acalendar listing of all of the
events.
Everything from Nature Center toBrookside Gardens to park
activation events to anythingthat's happening in the parks
will be on those calendars.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
OK, and what about renting the parks for special
events like we talked about withthe retirement parties or the
weddings or something like that?
How would people go aboutrenting an event where they
would want to serve alcohol?
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
So we have Brookside Gardens, which you could, you
know, from that from MontgomeryParks dot org, you can reach out
to Brookside Gardens from theirpage.
We also we have a couple ofdifferent event centers.
We have Rockwood Manor and thelodge at Seneca Creek.
You know, those are more weddingtype facilities for those
retirement parties.
The other thing we do is we havepark activity buildings, which
for birthday party celebrationskind of fit.
(23:08):
You know, they're scatteredthroughout the county in
different park locations.
And for those, you can contactour permits office.
They'll also navigate youthrough the through the
permitting process as well withwhat Montgomery Parks
requirements are as well.
And you can contact them at301-495-7000.
2525 and they'll get you headedin the right direction.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
Okay.
Lots of ways to have fun.
Thank you, Roddy Aguirre andMike Coppersmith for
participating in today'sspirited discussion.
SPEAKER_02 (23:34):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
If there's a topic you'd like us to cover on the
podcast, email us atabs.spiriteddiscussions at
montgomerycountymd.gov.
And thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_00 (23:48):
Alcohol Beverage Services is the alcohol
wholesaler of beer, wine, andspirits for Montgomery County,
and it operates neighborhoodretail stores.
ABS also manages alcohollicensing, enforcement, and
education for more than 1,000businesses.
Its profits are used to pay forresident services that otherwise
(24:09):
would be funded by county taxdollars.
This podcast is brought to youby County Cable Montgomery, your
source for news and informationfrom the Montgomery County
Government.
Connect with us via cable,Facebook, Instagram or YouTube
by searching for County CableMoCo.
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