Today’s episode of the Sports Business Classroom Audio Experience is hosted by Head of Marketing at NBA Summer League, Sergio Millas, who sits down with former Wizards President and executive leadership coach to discuss what makes a great leader. With decades of experience across the NBA, Tommy shares his journey from PR and Communications to becoming President and GM of an NBA franchise, highlighting the importance of humility, hustle, and human connection.
In this episode, they discuss:
As Tommy shares the key moments that shaped his career trajectory, he offers a blueprint for sustained growth and purpose-driven leadership, whether you're already leading a team or aspiring to break into the basketball industry. He reflects on his work with SBC students and the next generation of basketball leaders, emphasizing the value of strong foundations and the role of coaching in helping professionals navigate change. Through it all, Tommy reinforces a powerful message: true development comes from embracing the journey, not rushing toward instant gratification.
In this episode, they discuss:
- Why going the extra mile is a mindset, not a task
- How leadership is about listening, not just directing
- The daily habits and mental health practices that keep him grounded
- Why embracing the journey matters more than instant gratification
As Tommy shares the key moments that shaped his career trajectory, he offers a blueprint for sustained growth and purpose-driven leadership, whether you're already leading a team or aspiring to break into the basketball industry. He reflects on his work with SBC students and the next generation of basketball leaders, emphasizing the value of strong foundations and the role of coaching in helping professionals navigate change. Through it all, Tommy reinforces a powerful message: true development comes from embracing the journey, not rushing toward instant gratification.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to the Sports Business Classroom Audio Experience. Today,
we're honored to be joined by longtime NBA executive Tommy Shepherd.
With over two decades of front office experience, including his
tenure as president and GM of the Washington Wizards. Tommy
has built a reputation for cultivating strong organizational cultures, empowering teams,
(00:23):
and developing talent both on and off the court. In
this episode, Tommy shares powerful lessons on leadership, communication, self awareness,
and decision making at the highest levels. Whether you're an
aspiring executive, a current leader, or simply passionate about the
business side of sports, this conversation is packed with insight
(00:44):
and inspiration for you. Let's dive in. Tommy. So good
to be here with you. Appreciate you making the time.
This is the SBC podcast and as you know, most
of our listeners are either young, working in sports or
trying to break into sports. So if you could just
(01:04):
give us a little bit about your background, how you
broke into sports, and just what your career trajectory has
been so far.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hey, I'll tell you what sir. You first and foremost,
welcome back. Thank you. It was for twenty five great
podcasts of Sergio that have been buried in time, and
we have to dig them out because you know there's
some gold in there. Well, welcome back, and I'm I'm
glad to be here today. A little bit about myself.
I was in the NBA for twenty nine years. I
(01:31):
was the luckiest person in the world. I enjoyed every day.
I started out right out of college. I played football
at the Mexico State, which is a really bit of
a misidentifier. I was an asked back, you try to
get on the field, coach, tell you get your ass
back here. I enjoyed football. It was fun, it paid
the bills. I got an opportunity to have school paid for.
But when I graduated, my first job out of college
(01:53):
was working at UNLV and Media Relations as an assistant SID.
I went from there. My first job in the NBA
was with the Denver Nuggets. I started out as their
PR director. I was there for nine years. I've worked
all through pretty much every position you can have in
basketball operations. Then I got an opportunity to work with
the Washington Wizards. I was there for the last twenty
(02:17):
years and started out as assistant GM. I became vice
president and I was the president and GM for the
last four years, so it's been a wonderful ride. I
enjoyed the NBA absolutely along the way. I just can't
stress the amount of relationships, the amount of networking that
it's been able to bless me with so many great
(02:37):
opportunities in my life.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
What would you say was the key? I mean, it's
not normal for anybody to go at least these days.
It's not normal from going to from working in PR
and communications to eventually becoming a president in GM. What
was the key in being able to get there?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
In my belief, because it's always about teamwork and being
a great teammate and really trying to do whatever job
needed to get done, you know, with simple advice when
I tell people breaking in, you know, go to the
office a half hour early in the morning, stay an
hour late at the end of the day, because that's
when crisis usually happens, the first thing in the morning
or the last thing at the end of the day,
(03:16):
and if you're there, you're gonna get pressed into service.
That started out that dawned on me right away when
I was at UNLV and really hasn't failed me all
the way through since if you were available, Amazing things
happened up here and you get opportunities to have some
experience on something that maybe you weren't ever trained for
or knew much about, but you were available and you
(03:38):
learn and that's been the wonderful thing. And I can't
stress enough, Sergeill, when you're starting out in this industry,
the people that you're meeting, you may not believe it,
but you're going to be keeping in touch with them
for the next thirty years. You know. When I was
at UNLV, Jared Tarkany was the head coach and his
assistant coach, Tim berg Rich No coach gerg gave me
my He gave me my career basic. They helped me
(04:00):
in the NBA. We ran an NBA camp. He put
an NBA camp together with Bob Peter that was in
Las Vegas with the NBA coaches players for over twenty
five years. I was lucky enough to be a participant
with that for that camp. And then we had Really
mass Amino his assistant coach with Jay Wright, and Jay
Wright's one of my closest press for that whole entire time.
(04:22):
I got to Denver, my first boss was Bertie Bickerstaff
and was hired by Tim Laiwiki and I keep up
with those guys to this day. So the generation just
just keep coming and pile it on because the people
that you meet way back when, it just they really multiplies,
and you meet their peer groups and you meet more
and more people, and you share friends and share information.
(04:44):
It's just a wonderful place. Yes it is, but I
would stress highly networking is so important. I know that's
a big part of SPC.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yes it is. No, I appreciate those insights. Where do
you think your willingness to kind of obviously going the
extra mile has been huge to your career?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You said come in early, stay late. Where do you
think that came from?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I credit my parents, you know where. They were hardworking
people led by example, and they never really had a
time clock that you punch in and punch out, and
it's like you finish when the task get done and
there's no work left and we need everybody. And so
that stayed with me, and I worked for some really
wonderful people all along the way. I think another piece
that really helped me in my career, Sir Jill, was
(05:28):
I did a lot of volunteer work and that helped
me catch all with the United States Olympic and Paralympic
Committee work three Olympic Games for the uso PC. And
you know, obviously I was with USA basketball for a
great deal of it, but I also worked with USA swithering,
track and field, pretty much any sport that was up
for gold medal during the ninety six, two thousand and
(05:49):
two thousand and four Olympics, I was there that night
trying to help that athlete, help their media needs and
help keep their competition areas sterile as they say, And
you know, just so many opportunities came just because of
networking and keeping up with people and being available.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah no, I mean, listen, it's I tell young people
all the time that are asking me for advice, like,
the best ability is availability, right, And you'd be shocked
at just being there at the right right place, right time. Right.
I'm sure you've got some stories as it relates to that,
but right place, right time, and you know, you get
(06:26):
put into the game and then it's time to perform.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think the opportunities like such as whatever PC,
the opportunities that are offered there, I think that prepares
people very well for life's suddenness. When a job opens
and somebody met you at SPC and they recall the
conversation or how you present it, or just questions that
you ask. It stays with people, resonates, and they'll search
(06:51):
back and try to find you if they have a need.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So one of the we've known each other for about
fifteen years now, and we recently got up again because
of some of the work you're doing with SBC right
now as it relates to leadership coaching, and you're coaching
some of our students as far as you know, just
I actually, you know what, let's back up, Okay, what
is it that you're doing with our students at SBC.
(07:18):
I know that you know, we it kind of lives
under the frame of leadership coaching, but I'd love to
hear a little bit more from you as far as
the work that you're doing with those students.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You know, since I left the NBA, something I became
extremely passionate about and aware of just a need for
executive leadership coaching. You know. I had a little bit
of that when I was in Washington, and I see
a space now not just in the NBA, but in
all professional sports. And certainly athletics where people need a
little bit of extra mentorship, leadership opportunities to learn to
(07:51):
grow and develop their own developmental leadership skills. And I
kind of took it to an extreme. I got an
opportunity to enroll the Hudson Institute in Santa Barbara. It's
a leader executive Leadership coach, a program that's been around
for about forty five years before the Gold Standards and
business executive coaching, and I felt really strongly calling called
(08:12):
to that to learn that skill, particularly in Hudson Institute
in the way that they develop leadership coaching, because I
really do see a need and it's not just for
players or coaches, executives and support staff, but you can
do micro coaching with teams, you can do team coaching
with several people at once. There's all kinds of things
(08:33):
that really help people work together solve problems. And the
one thing that's really interesting about the Hudson Institute their way.
You know, when I say coaching in sports, we all
think clipboard whistle, it comes to the guy, right. This
is not that you know. They're coaching is very much
leading from behind and teaching the person, the client. So
to really you have the wherewithal to solve these problems,
(08:57):
and let's channel our energy to figure out what it
is that needs to be solved and how to get there,
and you really help them develop the roadmap to face
a lot of different crisis, a lot of different things
that come up. It can be anything from trying to
get a job, doing a job interview. It's really changing
in transition from one career to another. There's all kinds
of different places to be involved in. It's been extremely
(09:19):
gratifying to help people as they go along that I
worked with sports Leadership with SBC trying to imprint that
on younger people. I think it's really important as they
come into the industry to have some fundamentals, some foundational
knowledge of leadership skills. And hopefully we're growing leaders at
SBC and I think that'll be something we'll all see
(09:42):
in about ten to fifteen years, they'll be leading organizations
and I think we'll know where when that all started
was that SPC.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
No question? What is leadership? Tommy? Tell me what is
your definition of leadership?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I believe it's really helping a core group of people
realize they're dreams. I mean, that's kind of a short
and suitet opportunity to just open this discussion about leadership.
But you know, people tend to follow somebody if it's
good for them, and in organizations, a lot of times,
you know, titles are given from above, but leadership is
(10:16):
earned from below. And somebody that's kind of put in
charge of a group, you know, that's a very big responsibility,
and I think it's something that we need to really
kind of let's take it apart and look at and
what does that involved, And that very involves their very best,
you know, what their future holes could be kind of
(10:38):
in part of that group that we were trying to
execute to a to a common goal certainly, but over
long term, what is it that we're trying to produce,
what's the outcome that we want and how are we
going to get there? I think having somebody that has
to be kind of the front and center on that
that seems to be the typical way that we do things,
and leadership is often not just necessarily the person in
(11:01):
front of the room, but all the people that are
in the room helping that person execute the plan. And
so I think it's just so important that everybody understands
you can lead from wherever you're at. Some people are
going to be a lot better leading from a role
versus being made in front and center. And I think
there's room for all that. But identify what leadership needs
(11:22):
that every single entity, I think is very important and
then being able to describe it. Have everybody on the
same page, have everybody in step and align is very important.
But there has to be feedback and you have to
have psychological safety for everybody in your group to understand, Hey,
we want your feedback, we want to know how can
(11:44):
we get better and give them that space to speak.
You know, I don't think anybody wants to work for
an entity where they don't have a voice in anything, right,
I don't think that's valuable for your future.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
When you're doing sessions with I know that you're doing
some coaching with both individuals and organizations. How do your
sessions normally start, like, what are the types of questions
that you ask to get them to open up about
the things where you could potentially help them.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, certainly everybody brings something different there we call, but
it can be anything. Like I said, sometimes some people
want to find to get a new job. Sometimes it's
we're working on, we're going to have to downsize and
they're going to be bad news. How do I deliver that?
What do I need to do? But there's it could
be just about anything. I think a typical sessions about
an hour long. We always start out with basically it's
(12:35):
kind of a social contract. What is it that you're
bringing today? What would you like to work on? And
then be able to douce the topic and then we
kind of just start the conversation and a lot of
it is letting the client speak, letting them express what
is on their mind, asking some probing questions, not leading questions,
(12:56):
but really trying to get them to establish the timeline
maybe looking back, how did this process start? What have
we tried? What haven't we tried? What should we try?
You know, there's all kinds of different ways to attack issues,
and I think really just giving people that space to
speak it out loud, to go through a checklist, how
can we get from point A to point B? And
(13:19):
knowing that, hey, there's an element of time, you know,
And that was really hard from you, honestly to start
in this industry where the term coaching is used. Can
I come from a background been around coaches my entire life.
But it's been a sports This is not that, as
I said, So you have to be really, really attentive
to the needs of somebody across from you. You have
to be an amazing level of listening and a listener
(13:42):
that can really take that information without asking for a
lot of context and hold a mirror up to the
client and say, you know, where exactly do you think
this needs to be? What would that look like? You
have this issue right now, if it was to be
solved in a year's time, how would it have been solved?
What would be the perfect outcome? And you start to
(14:03):
see if people really do have an idea of what
it is they want, and sometimes it's just helping them
through the hurdles, and most of the hurdles tend to
be mental versus a physical thing that's holding them back.
So that's been really gratifying to see the transformation and
a lot of these people that I'm working with.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
How does one become a good leader.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I think it's repetitions. I think it's tons of experience.
Sometimes it is innate, right. Sometimes people just like to
take charge and really dial it up for other people
to follow. I don't know that there's one set way
to do it or do. I just know, if you
really want to know who the good leaders are, ask
everybody that works with them and they'll tell you what
(14:46):
the qualities that they want. And you know, I teach
a class in sports leadership Master's program at Georgetown and
that's one of the classes. One of the first things
that we touch on in the seal of business what
is a leader? What is the leader? And you can
develop a huge thought cloud of different things and everybody
has a different you know, some leaders are great visionaries,
(15:07):
some leaders are very compassionate, some people are very creative,
whatever it is, and you'll end up with about I
don't know, pick these sixty different adjectives up there describing leadership.
So you know a lot of people think about leadership
in a totally different way. You have to be careful
to make sure that there's enough diversity and thought, enough
(15:27):
diversity and leadership that everybody feels they feel heard and
they feel that they have a place in that group.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, that's very interesting. I mean I listen to a
podcast that you were a part of APU Edge where
you were talking about leadership. You were talking about listening,
giving people space to be able to communicate their thoughts,
and I just I think it's fantastic what you're doing
with the students taught me, you know, I want to
(15:56):
acknowledge all that because many of our students here at
us be see are on different places in their past, right,
And I'm sure that you're you're working on different problems
with everybody. And I appreciate what you said as far
as needing to be a good listener, right. I think
we talked about this earlier. Asking good questions and really
(16:16):
listening to somebody is a master key. And a lot
of times people think that the leader is the person
that's the loudest person in the room, right. I think
that many times that's that's that's how people think of leaders,
when truly, you know, I think I think it's the
people who listen right and are really paying attention to
(16:38):
what's going on in the room with their team that
really can can make the biggest impact.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Oh, there's no doubt. And if you again, we're going
to talk about sports since this is the SBC right
Sports Business classroom, but I would tell you that in sports,
most sports teams, most of the players on the team
will tell you the best player bears tell them the
best leader, right that the best player usually leads by example.
That and to be a little bit more introverted because
(17:05):
they have so much on their shoulders. There's usually somebody
in the room that can communicate, from the coach to
the players. Execute everybody has their role. Let's make sure
that we celebrate people who do their role. Let's uplift
those who fail in their role and get them better.
You know, there's so many different things that lead to success,
and there's so many. As they say, success has a
(17:27):
ton of investors and failure has zero, right. It's just
it's funny how that balance goes. But as you go
through life, I think you look back and you reflect
and you remember all the great people who touched your life,
and they had a little bit of of I think
they pass along some of the leadership qualities that you want,
that you really admire about that person, you kind of
(17:47):
take them and make them your own. And for me,
you know, one thing I always admired, and it started
with coach Gerr was just that amount of investment emotionally
in relationships with it with players, in this case NBA players,
and that impressed me so deeply, and that's something I
think I took and with my twenty nine years in
(18:08):
the NBA, I think that was I was most proud
of was my relationship with NBA players and certainly with coaches,
and might have the greatest empathy in the world for
a head coach in any sport, but particularly in the NBA.
That's the hardest job in the franchise is to be
a head coach, And just the relationships that started and
have continued to grow throughout my career was really just
(18:29):
becoming emotionally available for people that are really trying to
do something that's extremely hard. It's easier to win power
Ball than it is to play in the NBA, and
be able to be available for those people as they
grow and hold them accountable. Certainly be a great listener,
but be there sometimes just being present, just making sure
(18:50):
they're seeing and heard. I think those are things that
you know, maybe not show up as a as a
leadership handbook, but it's something I think everybody that is
in would appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
You mentioned coach gerg Who are some of the other
leaders that have influenced your thinking and your leadership style.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Man there's too many to count, you know, my Olympic
experience and being blessed to be around Rudy toms Adavitch
and to be around Coach k has two totally different
leaders two hos, totally different leadership style and both have
gold medals. You know. It's motivating people where they're at
figuring out which buttons to push. So those coaches were
(19:29):
really huge in my life, but just so many people.
Bertie Bickerstaff gave in my first opportunity the NBA is
legacy that he when he carved out his career in
the NBA as a assistant coach, a coach, of general manager,
and certainly as a mentor to sold many people in
the NBA. Being able to be blessed to be around
(19:51):
people like that and watch their impact. Assistant coaches Dwayne
Casey Harry Stotts were they both became very successful head
coaches as well. But their humility to be assistant coaches
and to be the very best at their job, I
think just just constant reminders and how much the humble
(20:11):
servant can really impact the lives of people in the NBA.
I think that's behavior always wanted to model. Got a
lie out of those guys. Good job, Mike Brown. Yeah right, No,
it's and again a lot of that stuff started at
coach Girk's camp, Mike Brown and watching his his career
and everybody kind of acknowledging that, and we took a
(20:31):
little bit from each other and form this kind of
a leadership idea where you're going to invest in people
every single day, and that amount of equity in those
relationships truly matters in the dark moments. You can really
drop on that.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
No question. You've mentioned that coaching helps leaders, you know,
elevate their teams, navigate change, sharp enough decision making. Could
you talk a little bit about which of these areas
you see leaders struggling with today the most.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I think it's just really trying to convince, you know,
and none of this is a it's just an observation surgery,
I would tell you, but that there's just that instant
gratification doesn't always need to be their first thing. You
don't need to get the first dream job the first
time that you go out and apply for something. It's
okay to fail. Failure is a great propeller forward in life.
(21:26):
It's a great navigational tool when you fail you learn
and you pay much more attention to great details and
so many other things that impact you. But I think
there's an s on the end to do and I
think that's something that we got to really impress on
you old people. And there's so many more options and
sports out, so many more opportunities to work in so
many different areas. It's a fantastic place. But it doesn't
(21:49):
necessarily mean that, hey, I should take a new job
every six months and bounce around, bounce around, bounce around.
I'm not knocking people that do that, but I do
think you know, our job as leaders's gip people roots
and let's give them wings. Let's let's make sure that
they stay loyal and they understand the business before they're
ready to move on or where they are. Here's the wings,
go out and go go do some great things. And
(22:11):
I've seen that, you know, and that I look at
Albert Hall's story and where Albert Hall started, answering pholds
of the Stallas SuperSonics and the partner with Ward of Lagarry.
But the NBA's most important off season property in the
Vegas Silver League, tees me as a hell of a transition,
a hell of a climbing step by step by step
by Albert that I think people can look at for
(22:33):
inspiration at any time.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, roots and wings, Like you said, roots and wings
so important, and so is that some of the work
that you're doing with young folks is helping give them
if they don't have roots, helping them establish roots and
then kind of coach them through how to establish their wings.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I think so, I think giving them the idea and
having them kind of state it back to what does
leadership look like to you? What his career development needs
to you, How do you think you can develop your career?
How best do you move forward? And really starting to
impress upon people how important it is to really plan
things out and have a structure, but also be flexible
(23:11):
because sometimes, you know, a lot of times the opportunities
come to you, Sergio, and they really don't look like
an opportunity. It looks up a lot like a dead
end or man nobody else wanted that job, But shoot,
that should be the job that she sees upon because
it's going to give you a spotlight to do something
maybe other people tried and failed. What if you succeed
now all of a sudden, that's something you can really
(23:32):
build off of and if it's a dead end job,
unfortunately you tried it, it didn't work, but you got the
experience of trying, so you know. I just try to
encourage people to try and try to go do something,
step outside yourself. Do give up after the first call
isn't returned, or you don't get a job off of LinkedIn,
or you didn't walk out of Summer League with a
(23:52):
GM job. Like it's kind of unlikely. I never crushed
people's dreams. I was one of those dreamers. I wanted
to run down a bat, but I actually was able
to do that. I think anything as possible if you're
willing to put the time in and you're lucky enough.
But I would tell you what I've been working with
with people that are coming into the industry, I try
to impress upon them there is an ess up there
to do. I actually work with a lot of people
(24:13):
that are that are older than me as well, and
trying to see that transition where you spent so much
part of your life, every part of your life is
acquiring wisdom and really becoming experience, and then I think
you reach a point in your life where you just
want to distill that wisdom. I think I'm somewhere that
between that right now, you still always learn it and
(24:34):
still stay curious, but I really want to impart wisdom
the people coming into this industry, maybe saying up some
part eight, maybe giving some ideas of where there's a
great a great place to start.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
No, And you're doing a fantastic job. And when you know,
in preparation for this interview, I was shocked at the
amount of things that you have done, the amount of
organizations you've been a part of. You know, I'm I'm
I'm a father of two, and I know you're a
father of is that right?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Seven?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Right? So just the mere fact that you've been able
to accomplish all of these things is just absolutely incredible,
and I marvel at it. I appreciate everything that that
you're doing, especially with our students, because, like you said,
you know, everybody's looking for instant gratification today, Tommy, and
I think part, you know, part of the problem is
(25:23):
that instant gratifications easy, right, But the fact of the
matter is it's not. It is absolutely not. The path
towards greatness, right, Greatness and becoming a better version of
yourself is a day to day grind and and you know,
it's like you said, it's having vision, it's having a plan,
(25:45):
it's executing on the plan, and it's learning when you fail.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Right, Absolutely, I think sustainability, to your point about instant gratification,
is very difficult to sustain. Something might break for you
right out to shoot. That's great, and I celebrate that congratulations,
but you might face disappointment a little bit later, and
you want to be equipped and you want to be
(26:09):
able to drop on that experience that there is a
disappointment coming ahead, that you remember how it felt, and
you can kind of prepare yourself as you transition from
one thing to the next. You know, learn from I
always say take the good, leave the bad, and move forward.
You know, you learn from everything. And I really do
believe that it's very very important to celebrate the good
(26:31):
days and make sure that people that you are weird,
that everybody's the acknowledged for the good things that happen.
Everybody's consoled with things, so grow their way and they'll
be better days. I just hate to see people give
up on something just because the time wasn't you know
it was two time or intensive. It takes time. You know,
I get this. A lot surge of people say I
(26:52):
want to do what you do, and I said, well,
you want to do what I do, you should do
what You're gonna have to do what I did, right,
you know, which was a lot of time away, a
lot of time at the office, a lot of travel,
a lot of you know, honestly, a lot of damage
to my family because they didn't see me for a
long time. And I can't get those years back. But
I can really try to help, certainly now be present
in their lives, but help other people realize that there
(27:13):
has to be that balance and have boundaries. And I
can point to places in my life where I could
make an example that hey, you know what I did
do these things. And I really want you to listen
because of the experience, I add, you can learn from me.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
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(27:49):
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Speaker 1 (28:07):
Do you have any habits that I mean, we all
have habits, but do you have any like daily rituals
or habits that you know you you've stuck to over
the years that have really served you.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yes, certainly. One of the first things that is when
I when I was I left the NBA, I realized
I was pretty much chronically sleep DEPRIVEDE. So I really
started everything with how important sleep is. And I know
I'm not going to bore you with all the details,
but I've been to some pretty high level medical symposiums
(28:37):
and I get there and I add my notebook and
they're going to tell you that feed of life and
get ready to write it down and it guy looks
o out the doctors' sleep and then start to pull
some sleep. I don't care where you go, you're going
to keep hearing get your sleep right. So I try
to have great sleep sanitation. I get up first, I
get up early, I journal, I have my time to ground,
(29:00):
mustself meditate, and I take care of we have a
bit of a farm. We've got some animals that take
care of horses and chickens and ducks and dogs, cats,
And that's my first hour of the day is tending
to that. Then I have a workout routine that I
stick too with my wife, and then I have client calls,
do different things during the day. I do a lot
of consulting with some different teams different leagues around the world.
(29:24):
I keep up with basketball at every level. And then
I have a big yoga practice. I try to adhere
to you at least four times a week. I mean,
you know those things that you can do for yourself.
I think it's okay to be selfish when it comes
to self improvement in the health area and to try
to do the best you care.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I think health and mental health, right, I mean, at
the end of the day, or if you can't bring
your best self to the table, then you're not going
to go as far as you could, right.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
But I think I would rip on that too, Sergio.
Where it's so important that leaders do that because of
the example it sets, right, and you're giving other the
people permission they observe, and this person's their mental sanitation
is on display. It's okay to meditate, it's okay, to
take a moment, It's okay. How do you communicate? Some
(30:13):
days needs to be edited, right, There's a lot of
self editing that goes into behavior. Now. I think we
all are aware that there's there's just so many elements
now that when you have some mental how would you say,
just some some noise in your life. Sure, there's so
many resources that are available, and I think it's so
(30:35):
important that leaders take advantage of those resources and encourage
everybody to take care of those resources at your office,
at your house, whatever it is, and for your children's sake,
you know. And that's a huge passion project for me.
It's the mental performance space for everybody in the NBA certainly,
and you know now that I'm in the executive coaching
(30:56):
world that I think that's something I really try to
work out with.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Can we go back to the journaling thing. What does
your journaling practice look like?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I'm I'm interested in this stuff, Tommy, because I'm a
huge self improvement junkie guy. If I'm not getting better,
I'm not happy, and so you know, I definitely resonate
with the journaling, the meditation that almost just taking time
to pause to see what's going on around me? Right? Like,
(31:29):
obviously there's we both have a lot going on. There's
people who look up to us, there's people who report
to us, there's people we report to. And I think that,
you know, not enough is being said, especially in sports,
as it relates to just taking the time to reflect
whatever it might be, right, journaling, meditation, just spending time
(31:50):
to really see, like what is the quality of my thoughts?
Are these leading me to the place that I want
to be? So I'd love to hear you talk about that.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Well. I just found over the years my turnally practices
it changed. I think when I first started, I thought
it was a performance theater, like someone's gonna find it right,
it'd be like the notebook script that'll make a movie.
It's none of that, you know. Really, what I try
to do every day is write down ten things I'm
grateful for. And sometimes they're the same every day. Sometimes
it's say, I'm so grateful my new granddaughters. Sometimes they
(32:22):
ten eggs this morning from chickens and ducks, you know,
but finding little things that can really flip that light
switch of things to be grateful for. And then I'd
like to write out here's five things I'd like to
accomplish today. You know those lists that I have twenty
five tasks on, if those are just for somebody else,
but that still look good, that's not realistic, right, What
can you sincerely attack today and whittle down on that
(32:45):
will have an impact on your life and on the
other lives of others. And then I take a little time.
I started some scripture that I just really write out
to myself. These are the things I'm grateful for. Here's
some things I love to work on. Here's some people
that I'm really thinking of of them sending the best
vibes to and here's or a better day. And the
(33:06):
more that you do it, the more it becomes part
of your routine. Because you know, sometimes your your rituals
can get broken because of travel or whatever. But you
want to get back to your routine, to your practice,
something that you can do that's sustainable. And then it's
really important, you know, go back at the end of
the Mud and read all the good all the stuff
(33:26):
that you've written, and there'll be patterns, you know, as
you go through. Then there's a couple apps that I
kind of I'll register, you know, you check in during
the day, what's your emotion now, high level, lower level energy,
those kinds of things, and I think those are valuable
little snapshots that you got to reflect on, do the
download and start to see patterns of your life. You know,
(33:49):
there's so many things that we can let go of, right.
I think we carry around a lot of joke at
a lot of inviasible baggage that comes with you and
you bring to your next bot, your next spot. You
keep wondering why does this stuff keep showing up? It's
because you don't let it go right, And so generally
that's something that really helped me look forward now backward.
I think some of these apps that kind of charge
(34:12):
your moods and things that maybe that you're doing and
what affects your mood, let's help you really start to realize,
you know, in a real perceptible way, how you show
up every day right, and how you show up is
so important. You leaders can't have a bad day, sir.
You know how you show up every day when you
(34:32):
walk into two meetings, into boardrooms and the practices, into
equipment room, wherever you touch. I'm thinking your typical day,
it's some really I've never seen you have a bad day,
even though I know it's an awful day. Maybe because
you're always smiling, you're always you're always trying to solve problems.
That's a big quality of leadership.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, no question. I mean, last question, how prevalent do
you think these practices are at dis point across professional
sports organizations? I mean, I've never worked in the front office,
but you know, as far as just the acceptance of listen,
I'm a human being, I have ebbs and flows. Self
(35:15):
care is important, not because I'm indulgent, but because I
want to bring my best self to the table. I'd
love to hear you speak as to kind of what
the state of all that is and how we can
improve upon that.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I think nowadays, especially you know it started with the
Martin Rose and Kevin Love. A lot of people come
aboard with some of the struggles they were having. That
starts to remove a little bit of the stigma. I
look at a lot of the things that you and
not just discussed, maybe like a New Year's resolution. How
many people make through your resolution a lot? How many
(35:50):
people keep them not a lot? And so what strips
you up It's just kind of that accountability to yourself.
Maybe having an accountability partner that goes through same journey
with you, that helps a lot. But I think really
when you have the best intention, go on a step further,
make sure you give yourself the tools to do it,
the time to do it, and make that time. It's amazing.
(36:13):
We'll make time for a meeting that you know you
have to be at, but you won't do something for yourself.
You know, over time you're going to be more important.
Your health is going to be more important to you
than those meetings, you know, And I think you have
to resolve that a start now while the investments can
still come in in a great amount, versus later when
maybe you don't have the great health anymore and you
(36:35):
wish you had the time to fix it. So I
really look at that. I think in the NBA there's
a great deal of thought leaders and waymakers that are
showing a healthy lifestyle physically and mentally, and there's a
great deal of resources that are out there, but it's
still making sure that people actually take advantage of them,
know where they're at, know hout and use them and
(36:56):
then checking in and seeing how it's going. And I
think that's something that we can all challenge each other
a little bit better out what was your sleep hours
last night? Did you jourdled today? You know, make that
part of your morning discussion. I think it's kind of fun.
I know, working in sports, everybody loves a good challenge,
everybody loves to win. So creating health challenges, I think
is a real positive way to start.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
No question, I appreciate that, Tommy, and you know, this
is a topic we've never talked about, but for years
I've been tweaking my rituals right just to figure out, okay,
how how how do I bring the optimal version of
me to my work, to my family, to just all
the different roles that I need to play. And so,
(37:38):
you know, never having had this discussion with you, it's
it's definitely refreshing to see that somebody of your level
of success and in the NBA, frankly you know, just
has had it, has implemented these things successfully. But I'm
a true believer. I mean, you and I both have
a mutual friend and mentor and George Raveling and just
(38:00):
constant improvement and self reflection. Right, if you just implement
those two things on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, whatever
it might be and actually pay attention to what's going on,
like that's that's the impetus to growth, right, And it
sounds to me like you are serving as that person
for a lot of people and in this next kind
(38:21):
of stage of your career and your current venture.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Well, and I feel obligation for all those who did
that for me. You know, I can't speaking up about
hort Le Garyot. You look at Ward's career where he started,
all the different things he's done. But if you put
all the people in a room whose lives he improved,
whose lives he touched, you know, you'd have a pretty
good voting a very large state. And so you know
(38:46):
those kinds of people, they make such a depression on
you that you certainly want to have that same kind
of impact. It's your way of paying it forward. And
I really believe the self edity is a very powerful tool.
There's things that you could look back on it and said, now,
I really wasn't happy the way that turned out. I'm
not happy the one I was in that situation or
in that period of my life. It's okay to self
(39:08):
bed it. It's okay to learn from that, make a
tubrit for that certainly, but move on, it doesn't serve
you anymore. Let it go, move towards those horizons. Coach
Dravisan Tat look at his life story. All these people
that are so successful that we admire, they've had some darkness,
they've had tough days. So I think it's really the
access that you have to those kind of people to
(39:29):
hear their stories and ask questions of how they change.
I think most people will tell you somebody else helped
them and add all that, and so that inspires you
to do the same for everybody else. So I admire
what you guys are created with SBC because I see
the impact moving forward on so many young lives, and
that's something I really admire. I want to be part of.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
So I appreciate this, Tommy, we appreciate you. And that
term self editing. I have, you know, the hundreds of
thousands of books that I've read or podcasts that listened
to on this subject, I've never heard the term self editing,
So you might want to go trademark that. But is
there anything else we want to cover before we get done?
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I don't think yet. No. I would love to revisit
maybe some other time, you know, this better not be
the twenty sixth than Fintal podcast. We should have this.
You've got a great way, man. We've got to put you.
You got to put a DJ in the quarter, have
a couple of hype guys behind you, but you got
you got the voice for it. Man, It's great.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I just you know what, I appreciate talking to great people. Tommy,
you know, I raally do it you that's you, bro, No,
I really do like listen. I just you know. In closing,
I want to say thank you for for for taking
the time and just being being an example to all
of us. I've always appreciate our relationship and you know,
we've got it. We've always We've gotten to know each
(40:50):
other a little bit better over the past few months
here and uh look looking forward to keeping things going.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I appreciate you so much, Sir Joan, thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
For joining us for the special episode of the SBC
Audio Experience featuring Tommy Shephard. We hope his insights on leadership,
culture and personal growth gave you a deeper understanding of
what it takes to lead at the highest level in
professional sports. If something stood out to you from this episode,
we'd love to hear it, Tag us on Instagram at
Sports Business Classroom and share your favorite takeaway. And if
(41:22):
you haven't already done so, be sure to like, subscribe,
and leave us a review. It helps others discover the show.
Thank you, we'll see you here again soon
Welcome back to the Sports Business Classroom Audio Experience. Today,
we're honored to be joined by longtime NBA executive Tommy Shepherd.
With over two decades of front office experience, including his
tenure as president and GM of the Washington Wizards. Tommy
has built a reputation for cultivating strong organizational cultures, empowering teams,
(00:23):
and developing talent both on and off the court. In
this episode, Tommy shares powerful lessons on leadership, communication, self awareness,
and decision making at the highest levels. Whether you're an
aspiring executive, a current leader, or simply passionate about the
business side of sports, this conversation is packed with insight
(00:44):
and inspiration for you. Let's dive in. Tommy. So good
to be here with you. Appreciate you making the time.
This is the SBC podcast and as you know, most
of our listeners are either young, working in sports or
trying to break into sports. So if you could just
(01:04):
give us a little bit about your background, how you
broke into sports, and just what your career trajectory has
been so far.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hey, I'll tell you what sir. You first and foremost,
welcome back. Thank you. It was for twenty five great
podcasts of Sergio that have been buried in time, and
we have to dig them out because you know there's
some gold in there. Well, welcome back, and I'm I'm
glad to be here today. A little bit about myself.
I was in the NBA for twenty nine years. I
(01:31):
was the luckiest person in the world. I enjoyed every day.
I started out right out of college. I played football
at the Mexico State, which is a really bit of
a misidentifier. I was an asked back, you try to
get on the field, coach, tell you get your ass
back here. I enjoyed football. It was fun, it paid
the bills. I got an opportunity to have school paid for.
But when I graduated, my first job out of college
(01:53):
was working at UNLV and Media Relations as an assistant SID.
I went from there. My first job in the NBA
was with the Denver Nuggets. I started out as their
PR director. I was there for nine years. I've worked
all through pretty much every position you can have in
basketball operations. Then I got an opportunity to work with
the Washington Wizards. I was there for the last twenty
(02:17):
years and started out as assistant GM. I became vice
president and I was the president and GM for the
last four years, so it's been a wonderful ride. I
enjoyed the NBA absolutely along the way. I just can't
stress the amount of relationships, the amount of networking that
it's been able to bless me with so many great
(02:37):
opportunities in my life.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
What would you say was the key? I mean, it's
not normal for anybody to go at least these days.
It's not normal from going to from working in PR
and communications to eventually becoming a president in GM. What
was the key in being able to get there?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
In my belief, because it's always about teamwork and being
a great teammate and really trying to do whatever job
needed to get done, you know, with simple advice when
I tell people breaking in, you know, go to the
office a half hour early in the morning, stay an
hour late at the end of the day, because that's
when crisis usually happens, the first thing in the morning
or the last thing at the end of the day,
(03:16):
and if you're there, you're gonna get pressed into service.
That started out that dawned on me right away when
I was at UNLV and really hasn't failed me all
the way through since if you were available, Amazing things
happened up here and you get opportunities to have some
experience on something that maybe you weren't ever trained for
or knew much about, but you were available and you
(03:38):
learn and that's been the wonderful thing. And I can't
stress enough, Sergeill, when you're starting out in this industry,
the people that you're meeting, you may not believe it,
but you're going to be keeping in touch with them
for the next thirty years. You know. When I was
at UNLV, Jared Tarkany was the head coach and his
assistant coach, Tim berg Rich No coach gerg gave me
my He gave me my career basic. They helped me
(04:00):
in the NBA. We ran an NBA camp. He put
an NBA camp together with Bob Peter that was in
Las Vegas with the NBA coaches players for over twenty
five years. I was lucky enough to be a participant
with that for that camp. And then we had Really
mass Amino his assistant coach with Jay Wright, and Jay
Wright's one of my closest press for that whole entire time.
(04:22):
I got to Denver, my first boss was Bertie Bickerstaff
and was hired by Tim Laiwiki and I keep up
with those guys to this day. So the generation just
just keep coming and pile it on because the people
that you meet way back when, it just they really multiplies,
and you meet their peer groups and you meet more
and more people, and you share friends and share information.
(04:44):
It's just a wonderful place. Yes it is, but I
would stress highly networking is so important. I know that's
a big part of SPC.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yes it is. No, I appreciate those insights. Where do
you think your willingness to kind of obviously going the
extra mile has been huge to your career?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You said come in early, stay late. Where do you
think that came from?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I credit my parents, you know where. They were hardworking
people led by example, and they never really had a
time clock that you punch in and punch out, and
it's like you finish when the task get done and
there's no work left and we need everybody. And so
that stayed with me, and I worked for some really
wonderful people all along the way. I think another piece
that really helped me in my career, Sir Jill, was
(05:28):
I did a lot of volunteer work and that helped
me catch all with the United States Olympic and Paralympic
Committee work three Olympic Games for the uso PC. And
you know, obviously I was with USA basketball for a
great deal of it, but I also worked with USA swithering,
track and field, pretty much any sport that was up
for gold medal during the ninety six, two thousand and
(05:49):
two thousand and four Olympics, I was there that night
trying to help that athlete, help their media needs and
help keep their competition areas sterile as they say, And
you know, just so many opportunities came just because of
networking and keeping up with people and being available.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah no, I mean, listen, it's I tell young people
all the time that are asking me for advice, like,
the best ability is availability, right, And you'd be shocked
at just being there at the right right place, right time. Right.
I'm sure you've got some stories as it relates to that,
but right place, right time, and you know, you get
(06:26):
put into the game and then it's time to perform.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think the opportunities like such as whatever PC,
the opportunities that are offered there, I think that prepares
people very well for life's suddenness. When a job opens
and somebody met you at SPC and they recall the
conversation or how you present it, or just questions that
you ask. It stays with people, resonates, and they'll search
(06:51):
back and try to find you if they have a need.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So one of the we've known each other for about
fifteen years now, and we recently got up again because
of some of the work you're doing with SBC right
now as it relates to leadership coaching, and you're coaching
some of our students as far as you know, just
I actually, you know what, let's back up, Okay, what
is it that you're doing with our students at SBC.
(07:18):
I know that you know, we it kind of lives
under the frame of leadership coaching, but I'd love to
hear a little bit more from you as far as
the work that you're doing with those students.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You know, since I left the NBA, something I became
extremely passionate about and aware of just a need for
executive leadership coaching. You know. I had a little bit
of that when I was in Washington, and I see
a space now not just in the NBA, but in
all professional sports. And certainly athletics where people need a
little bit of extra mentorship, leadership opportunities to learn to
(07:51):
grow and develop their own developmental leadership skills. And I
kind of took it to an extreme. I got an
opportunity to enroll the Hudson Institute in Santa Barbara. It's
a leader executive Leadership coach, a program that's been around
for about forty five years before the Gold Standards and
business executive coaching, and I felt really strongly calling called
(08:12):
to that to learn that skill, particularly in Hudson Institute
in the way that they develop leadership coaching, because I
really do see a need and it's not just for
players or coaches, executives and support staff, but you can
do micro coaching with teams, you can do team coaching
with several people at once. There's all kinds of things
(08:33):
that really help people work together solve problems. And the
one thing that's really interesting about the Hudson Institute their way.
You know, when I say coaching in sports, we all
think clipboard whistle, it comes to the guy, right. This
is not that you know. They're coaching is very much
leading from behind and teaching the person, the client. So
to really you have the wherewithal to solve these problems,
(08:57):
and let's channel our energy to figure out what it
is that needs to be solved and how to get there,
and you really help them develop the roadmap to face
a lot of different crisis, a lot of different things
that come up. It can be anything from trying to
get a job, doing a job interview. It's really changing
in transition from one career to another. There's all kinds
of different places to be involved in. It's been extremely
(09:19):
gratifying to help people as they go along that I
worked with sports Leadership with SBC trying to imprint that
on younger people. I think it's really important as they
come into the industry to have some fundamentals, some foundational
knowledge of leadership skills. And hopefully we're growing leaders at
SBC and I think that'll be something we'll all see
(09:42):
in about ten to fifteen years, they'll be leading organizations
and I think we'll know where when that all started
was that SPC.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
No question? What is leadership? Tommy? Tell me what is
your definition of leadership?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I believe it's really helping a core group of people
realize they're dreams. I mean, that's kind of a short
and suitet opportunity to just open this discussion about leadership.
But you know, people tend to follow somebody if it's
good for them, and in organizations, a lot of times,
you know, titles are given from above, but leadership is
(10:16):
earned from below. And somebody that's kind of put in
charge of a group, you know, that's a very big responsibility,
and I think it's something that we need to really
kind of let's take it apart and look at and
what does that involved, And that very involves their very best,
you know, what their future holes could be kind of
(10:38):
in part of that group that we were trying to
execute to a to a common goal certainly, but over
long term, what is it that we're trying to produce,
what's the outcome that we want and how are we
going to get there? I think having somebody that has
to be kind of the front and center on that
that seems to be the typical way that we do things,
and leadership is often not just necessarily the person in
(11:01):
front of the room, but all the people that are
in the room helping that person execute the plan. And
so I think it's just so important that everybody understands
you can lead from wherever you're at. Some people are
going to be a lot better leading from a role
versus being made in front and center. And I think
there's room for all that. But identify what leadership needs
(11:22):
that every single entity, I think is very important and
then being able to describe it. Have everybody on the
same page, have everybody in step and align is very important.
But there has to be feedback and you have to
have psychological safety for everybody in your group to understand, Hey,
we want your feedback, we want to know how can
(11:44):
we get better and give them that space to speak.
You know, I don't think anybody wants to work for
an entity where they don't have a voice in anything, right,
I don't think that's valuable for your future.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
When you're doing sessions with I know that you're doing
some coaching with both individuals and organizations. How do your
sessions normally start, like, what are the types of questions
that you ask to get them to open up about
the things where you could potentially help them.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, certainly everybody brings something different there we call, but
it can be anything. Like I said, sometimes some people
want to find to get a new job. Sometimes it's
we're working on, we're going to have to downsize and
they're going to be bad news. How do I deliver that?
What do I need to do? But there's it could
be just about anything. I think a typical sessions about
an hour long. We always start out with basically it's
(12:35):
kind of a social contract. What is it that you're
bringing today? What would you like to work on? And
then be able to douce the topic and then we
kind of just start the conversation and a lot of
it is letting the client speak, letting them express what
is on their mind, asking some probing questions, not leading questions,
(12:56):
but really trying to get them to establish the timeline
maybe looking back, how did this process start? What have
we tried? What haven't we tried? What should we try?
You know, there's all kinds of different ways to attack issues,
and I think really just giving people that space to
speak it out loud, to go through a checklist, how
can we get from point A to point B? And
(13:19):
knowing that, hey, there's an element of time, you know,
And that was really hard from you, honestly to start
in this industry where the term coaching is used. Can
I come from a background been around coaches my entire life.
But it's been a sports This is not that, as
I said, So you have to be really, really attentive
to the needs of somebody across from you. You have
to be an amazing level of listening and a listener
(13:42):
that can really take that information without asking for a
lot of context and hold a mirror up to the
client and say, you know, where exactly do you think
this needs to be? What would that look like? You
have this issue right now, if it was to be
solved in a year's time, how would it have been solved?
What would be the perfect outcome? And you start to
(14:03):
see if people really do have an idea of what
it is they want, and sometimes it's just helping them
through the hurdles, and most of the hurdles tend to
be mental versus a physical thing that's holding them back.
So that's been really gratifying to see the transformation and
a lot of these people that I'm working with.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
How does one become a good leader.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I think it's repetitions. I think it's tons of experience.
Sometimes it is innate, right. Sometimes people just like to
take charge and really dial it up for other people
to follow. I don't know that there's one set way
to do it or do. I just know, if you
really want to know who the good leaders are, ask
everybody that works with them and they'll tell you what
(14:46):
the qualities that they want. And you know, I teach
a class in sports leadership Master's program at Georgetown and
that's one of the classes. One of the first things
that we touch on in the seal of business what
is a leader? What is the leader? And you can
develop a huge thought cloud of different things and everybody
has a different you know, some leaders are great visionaries,
(15:07):
some leaders are very compassionate, some people are very creative,
whatever it is, and you'll end up with about I
don't know, pick these sixty different adjectives up there describing leadership.
So you know a lot of people think about leadership
in a totally different way. You have to be careful
to make sure that there's enough diversity and thought, enough
(15:27):
diversity and leadership that everybody feels they feel heard and
they feel that they have a place in that group.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, that's very interesting. I mean I listen to a
podcast that you were a part of APU Edge where
you were talking about leadership. You were talking about listening,
giving people space to be able to communicate their thoughts,
and I just I think it's fantastic what you're doing
with the students taught me, you know, I want to
(15:56):
acknowledge all that because many of our students here at
us be see are on different places in their past, right,
And I'm sure that you're you're working on different problems
with everybody. And I appreciate what you said as far
as needing to be a good listener, right. I think
we talked about this earlier. Asking good questions and really
(16:16):
listening to somebody is a master key. And a lot
of times people think that the leader is the person
that's the loudest person in the room, right. I think
that many times that's that's that's how people think of leaders,
when truly, you know, I think I think it's the
people who listen right and are really paying attention to
(16:38):
what's going on in the room with their team that
really can can make the biggest impact.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Oh, there's no doubt. And if you again, we're going
to talk about sports since this is the SBC right
Sports Business classroom, but I would tell you that in sports,
most sports teams, most of the players on the team
will tell you the best player bears tell them the
best leader, right that the best player usually leads by example.
That and to be a little bit more introverted because
(17:05):
they have so much on their shoulders. There's usually somebody
in the room that can communicate, from the coach to
the players. Execute everybody has their role. Let's make sure
that we celebrate people who do their role. Let's uplift
those who fail in their role and get them better.
You know, there's so many different things that lead to success,
and there's so many. As they say, success has a
(17:27):
ton of investors and failure has zero, right. It's just
it's funny how that balance goes. But as you go
through life, I think you look back and you reflect
and you remember all the great people who touched your life,
and they had a little bit of of I think
they pass along some of the leadership qualities that you want,
that you really admire about that person, you kind of
(17:47):
take them and make them your own. And for me,
you know, one thing I always admired, and it started
with coach Gerr was just that amount of investment emotionally
in relationships with it with players, in this case NBA players,
and that impressed me so deeply, and that's something I
think I took and with my twenty nine years in
(18:08):
the NBA, I think that was I was most proud
of was my relationship with NBA players and certainly with coaches,
and might have the greatest empathy in the world for
a head coach in any sport, but particularly in the NBA.
That's the hardest job in the franchise is to be
a head coach, And just the relationships that started and
have continued to grow throughout my career was really just
(18:29):
becoming emotionally available for people that are really trying to
do something that's extremely hard. It's easier to win power
Ball than it is to play in the NBA, and
be able to be available for those people as they
grow and hold them accountable. Certainly be a great listener,
but be there sometimes just being present, just making sure
(18:50):
they're seeing and heard. I think those are things that
you know, maybe not show up as a as a
leadership handbook, but it's something I think everybody that is
in would appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
You mentioned coach gerg Who are some of the other
leaders that have influenced your thinking and your leadership style.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Man there's too many to count, you know, my Olympic
experience and being blessed to be around Rudy toms Adavitch
and to be around Coach k has two totally different
leaders two hos, totally different leadership style and both have
gold medals. You know. It's motivating people where they're at
figuring out which buttons to push. So those coaches were
(19:29):
really huge in my life, but just so many people.
Bertie Bickerstaff gave in my first opportunity the NBA is
legacy that he when he carved out his career in
the NBA as a assistant coach, a coach, of general manager,
and certainly as a mentor to sold many people in
the NBA. Being able to be blessed to be around
(19:51):
people like that and watch their impact. Assistant coaches Dwayne
Casey Harry Stotts were they both became very successful head
coaches as well. But their humility to be assistant coaches
and to be the very best at their job, I
think just just constant reminders and how much the humble
(20:11):
servant can really impact the lives of people in the NBA.
I think that's behavior always wanted to model. Got a
lie out of those guys. Good job, Mike Brown. Yeah right, No,
it's and again a lot of that stuff started at
coach Girk's camp, Mike Brown and watching his his career
and everybody kind of acknowledging that, and we took a
(20:31):
little bit from each other and form this kind of
a leadership idea where you're going to invest in people
every single day, and that amount of equity in those
relationships truly matters in the dark moments. You can really
drop on that.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
No question. You've mentioned that coaching helps leaders, you know,
elevate their teams, navigate change, sharp enough decision making. Could
you talk a little bit about which of these areas
you see leaders struggling with today the most.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I think it's just really trying to convince, you know,
and none of this is a it's just an observation surgery,
I would tell you, but that there's just that instant
gratification doesn't always need to be their first thing. You
don't need to get the first dream job the first
time that you go out and apply for something. It's
okay to fail. Failure is a great propeller forward in life.
(21:26):
It's a great navigational tool when you fail you learn
and you pay much more attention to great details and
so many other things that impact you. But I think
there's an s on the end to do and I
think that's something that we got to really impress on
you old people. And there's so many more options and
sports out, so many more opportunities to work in so
many different areas. It's a fantastic place. But it doesn't
(21:49):
necessarily mean that, hey, I should take a new job
every six months and bounce around, bounce around, bounce around.
I'm not knocking people that do that, but I do
think you know, our job as leaders's gip people roots
and let's give them wings. Let's let's make sure that
they stay loyal and they understand the business before they're
ready to move on or where they are. Here's the wings,
go out and go go do some great things. And
(22:11):
I've seen that, you know, and that I look at
Albert Hall's story and where Albert Hall started, answering pholds
of the Stallas SuperSonics and the partner with Ward of Lagarry.
But the NBA's most important off season property in the
Vegas Silver League, tees me as a hell of a transition,
a hell of a climbing step by step by step
by Albert that I think people can look at for
(22:33):
inspiration at any time.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, roots and wings, Like you said, roots and wings
so important, and so is that some of the work
that you're doing with young folks is helping give them
if they don't have roots, helping them establish roots and
then kind of coach them through how to establish their wings.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I think so, I think giving them the idea and
having them kind of state it back to what does
leadership look like to you? What his career development needs
to you, How do you think you can develop your career?
How best do you move forward? And really starting to
impress upon people how important it is to really plan
things out and have a structure, but also be flexible
(23:11):
because sometimes, you know, a lot of times the opportunities
come to you, Sergio, and they really don't look like
an opportunity. It looks up a lot like a dead
end or man nobody else wanted that job, But shoot,
that should be the job that she sees upon because
it's going to give you a spotlight to do something
maybe other people tried and failed. What if you succeed
now all of a sudden, that's something you can really
(23:32):
build off of and if it's a dead end job,
unfortunately you tried it, it didn't work, but you got the
experience of trying, so you know. I just try to
encourage people to try and try to go do something,
step outside yourself. Do give up after the first call
isn't returned, or you don't get a job off of LinkedIn,
or you didn't walk out of Summer League with a
(23:52):
GM job. Like it's kind of unlikely. I never crushed
people's dreams. I was one of those dreamers. I wanted
to run down a bat, but I actually was able
to do that. I think anything as possible if you're
willing to put the time in and you're lucky enough.
But I would tell you what I've been working with
with people that are coming into the industry, I try
to impress upon them there is an ess up there
to do. I actually work with a lot of people
(24:13):
that are that are older than me as well, and
trying to see that transition where you spent so much
part of your life, every part of your life is
acquiring wisdom and really becoming experience, and then I think
you reach a point in your life where you just
want to distill that wisdom. I think I'm somewhere that
between that right now, you still always learn it and
(24:34):
still stay curious, but I really want to impart wisdom
the people coming into this industry, maybe saying up some
part eight, maybe giving some ideas of where there's a
great a great place to start.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
No, And you're doing a fantastic job. And when you know,
in preparation for this interview, I was shocked at the
amount of things that you have done, the amount of
organizations you've been a part of. You know, I'm I'm
I'm a father of two, and I know you're a
father of is that right?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Seven?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Right? So just the mere fact that you've been able
to accomplish all of these things is just absolutely incredible,
and I marvel at it. I appreciate everything that that
you're doing, especially with our students, because, like you said,
you know, everybody's looking for instant gratification today, Tommy, and
I think part, you know, part of the problem is
(25:23):
that instant gratifications easy, right, But the fact of the
matter is it's not. It is absolutely not. The path
towards greatness, right, Greatness and becoming a better version of
yourself is a day to day grind and and you know,
it's like you said, it's having vision, it's having a plan,
(25:45):
it's executing on the plan, and it's learning when you fail.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Right, Absolutely, I think sustainability, to your point about instant gratification,
is very difficult to sustain. Something might break for you
right out to shoot. That's great, and I celebrate that congratulations,
but you might face disappointment a little bit later, and
you want to be equipped and you want to be
(26:09):
able to drop on that experience that there is a
disappointment coming ahead, that you remember how it felt, and
you can kind of prepare yourself as you transition from
one thing to the next. You know, learn from I
always say take the good, leave the bad, and move forward.
You know, you learn from everything. And I really do
believe that it's very very important to celebrate the good
(26:31):
days and make sure that people that you are weird,
that everybody's the acknowledged for the good things that happen.
Everybody's consoled with things, so grow their way and they'll
be better days. I just hate to see people give
up on something just because the time wasn't you know
it was two time or intensive. It takes time. You know,
I get this. A lot surge of people say I
(26:52):
want to do what you do, and I said, well,
you want to do what I do, you should do
what You're gonna have to do what I did, right,
you know, which was a lot of time away, a
lot of time at the office, a lot of travel,
a lot of you know, honestly, a lot of damage
to my family because they didn't see me for a
long time. And I can't get those years back. But
I can really try to help, certainly now be present
in their lives, but help other people realize that there
(27:13):
has to be that balance and have boundaries. And I
can point to places in my life where I could
make an example that hey, you know what I did
do these things. And I really want you to listen
because of the experience, I add, you can learn from me.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
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(27:49):
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Speaker 1 (28:07):
Do you have any habits that I mean, we all
have habits, but do you have any like daily rituals
or habits that you know you you've stuck to over
the years that have really served you.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yes, certainly. One of the first things that is when
I when I was I left the NBA, I realized
I was pretty much chronically sleep DEPRIVEDE. So I really
started everything with how important sleep is. And I know
I'm not going to bore you with all the details,
but I've been to some pretty high level medical symposiums
(28:37):
and I get there and I add my notebook and
they're going to tell you that feed of life and
get ready to write it down and it guy looks
o out the doctors' sleep and then start to pull
some sleep. I don't care where you go, you're going
to keep hearing get your sleep right. So I try
to have great sleep sanitation. I get up first, I
get up early, I journal, I have my time to ground,
(29:00):
mustself meditate, and I take care of we have a
bit of a farm. We've got some animals that take
care of horses and chickens and ducks and dogs, cats,
And that's my first hour of the day is tending
to that. Then I have a workout routine that I
stick too with my wife, and then I have client calls,
do different things during the day. I do a lot
of consulting with some different teams different leagues around the world.
(29:24):
I keep up with basketball at every level. And then
I have a big yoga practice. I try to adhere
to you at least four times a week. I mean,
you know those things that you can do for yourself.
I think it's okay to be selfish when it comes
to self improvement in the health area and to try
to do the best you care.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I think health and mental health, right, I mean, at
the end of the day, or if you can't bring
your best self to the table, then you're not going
to go as far as you could, right.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
But I think I would rip on that too, Sergio.
Where it's so important that leaders do that because of
the example it sets, right, and you're giving other the
people permission they observe, and this person's their mental sanitation
is on display. It's okay to meditate, it's okay, to
take a moment, It's okay. How do you communicate? Some
(30:13):
days needs to be edited, right, There's a lot of
self editing that goes into behavior. Now. I think we
all are aware that there's there's just so many elements
now that when you have some mental how would you say,
just some some noise in your life. Sure, there's so
many resources that are available, and I think it's so
(30:35):
important that leaders take advantage of those resources and encourage
everybody to take care of those resources at your office,
at your house, whatever it is, and for your children's sake,
you know. And that's a huge passion project for me.
It's the mental performance space for everybody in the NBA certainly,
and you know now that I'm in the executive coaching
(30:56):
world that I think that's something I really try to
work out with.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Can we go back to the journaling thing. What does
your journaling practice look like?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I'm I'm interested in this stuff, Tommy, because I'm a
huge self improvement junkie guy. If I'm not getting better,
I'm not happy, and so you know, I definitely resonate
with the journaling, the meditation that almost just taking time
to pause to see what's going on around me? Right? Like,
(31:29):
obviously there's we both have a lot going on. There's
people who look up to us, there's people who report
to us, there's people we report to. And I think that,
you know, not enough is being said, especially in sports,
as it relates to just taking the time to reflect
whatever it might be, right, journaling, meditation, just spending time
(31:50):
to really see, like what is the quality of my thoughts?
Are these leading me to the place that I want
to be? So I'd love to hear you talk about that.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Well. I just found over the years my turnally practices
it changed. I think when I first started, I thought
it was a performance theater, like someone's gonna find it right,
it'd be like the notebook script that'll make a movie.
It's none of that, you know. Really, what I try
to do every day is write down ten things I'm
grateful for. And sometimes they're the same every day. Sometimes
it's say, I'm so grateful my new granddaughters. Sometimes they
(32:22):
ten eggs this morning from chickens and ducks, you know,
but finding little things that can really flip that light
switch of things to be grateful for. And then I'd
like to write out here's five things I'd like to
accomplish today. You know those lists that I have twenty
five tasks on, if those are just for somebody else,
but that still look good, that's not realistic, right, What
can you sincerely attack today and whittle down on that
(32:45):
will have an impact on your life and on the
other lives of others. And then I take a little time.
I started some scripture that I just really write out
to myself. These are the things I'm grateful for. Here's
some things I love to work on. Here's some people
that I'm really thinking of of them sending the best
vibes to and here's or a better day. And the
(33:06):
more that you do it, the more it becomes part
of your routine. Because you know, sometimes your your rituals
can get broken because of travel or whatever. But you
want to get back to your routine, to your practice,
something that you can do that's sustainable. And then it's
really important, you know, go back at the end of
the Mud and read all the good all the stuff
(33:26):
that you've written, and there'll be patterns, you know, as
you go through. Then there's a couple apps that I
kind of I'll register, you know, you check in during
the day, what's your emotion now, high level, lower level energy,
those kinds of things, and I think those are valuable
little snapshots that you got to reflect on, do the
download and start to see patterns of your life. You know,
(33:49):
there's so many things that we can let go of, right.
I think we carry around a lot of joke at
a lot of inviasible baggage that comes with you and
you bring to your next bot, your next spot. You
keep wondering why does this stuff keep showing up? It's
because you don't let it go right, And so generally
that's something that really helped me look forward now backward.
I think some of these apps that kind of charge
(34:12):
your moods and things that maybe that you're doing and
what affects your mood, let's help you really start to realize,
you know, in a real perceptible way, how you show
up every day right, and how you show up is
so important. You leaders can't have a bad day, sir.
You know how you show up every day when you
(34:32):
walk into two meetings, into boardrooms and the practices, into
equipment room, wherever you touch. I'm thinking your typical day,
it's some really I've never seen you have a bad day,
even though I know it's an awful day. Maybe because
you're always smiling, you're always you're always trying to solve problems.
That's a big quality of leadership.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, no question. I mean, last question, how prevalent do
you think these practices are at dis point across professional
sports organizations? I mean, I've never worked in the front office,
but you know, as far as just the acceptance of listen,
I'm a human being, I have ebbs and flows. Self
(35:15):
care is important, not because I'm indulgent, but because I
want to bring my best self to the table. I'd
love to hear you speak as to kind of what
the state of all that is and how we can
improve upon that.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I think nowadays, especially you know it started with the
Martin Rose and Kevin Love. A lot of people come
aboard with some of the struggles they were having. That
starts to remove a little bit of the stigma. I
look at a lot of the things that you and
not just discussed, maybe like a New Year's resolution. How
many people make through your resolution a lot? How many
(35:50):
people keep them not a lot? And so what strips
you up It's just kind of that accountability to yourself.
Maybe having an accountability partner that goes through same journey
with you, that helps a lot. But I think really
when you have the best intention, go on a step further,
make sure you give yourself the tools to do it,
the time to do it, and make that time. It's amazing.
(36:13):
We'll make time for a meeting that you know you
have to be at, but you won't do something for yourself.
You know, over time you're going to be more important.
Your health is going to be more important to you
than those meetings, you know, And I think you have
to resolve that a start now while the investments can
still come in in a great amount, versus later when
maybe you don't have the great health anymore and you
(36:35):
wish you had the time to fix it. So I
really look at that. I think in the NBA there's
a great deal of thought leaders and waymakers that are
showing a healthy lifestyle physically and mentally, and there's a
great deal of resources that are out there, but it's
still making sure that people actually take advantage of them,
know where they're at, know hout and use them and
(36:56):
then checking in and seeing how it's going. And I
think that's something that we can all challenge each other
a little bit better out what was your sleep hours
last night? Did you jourdled today? You know, make that
part of your morning discussion. I think it's kind of fun.
I know, working in sports, everybody loves a good challenge,
everybody loves to win. So creating health challenges, I think
is a real positive way to start.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
No question, I appreciate that, Tommy, and you know, this
is a topic we've never talked about, but for years
I've been tweaking my rituals right just to figure out, okay,
how how how do I bring the optimal version of
me to my work, to my family, to just all
the different roles that I need to play. And so,
(37:38):
you know, never having had this discussion with you, it's
it's definitely refreshing to see that somebody of your level
of success and in the NBA, frankly you know, just
has had it, has implemented these things successfully. But I'm
a true believer. I mean, you and I both have
a mutual friend and mentor and George Raveling and just
(38:00):
constant improvement and self reflection. Right, if you just implement
those two things on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, whatever
it might be and actually pay attention to what's going on,
like that's that's the impetus to growth, right, And it
sounds to me like you are serving as that person
for a lot of people and in this next kind
(38:21):
of stage of your career and your current venture.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Well, and I feel obligation for all those who did
that for me. You know, I can't speaking up about
hort Le Garyot. You look at Ward's career where he started,
all the different things he's done. But if you put
all the people in a room whose lives he improved,
whose lives he touched, you know, you'd have a pretty
good voting a very large state. And so you know
(38:46):
those kinds of people, they make such a depression on
you that you certainly want to have that same kind
of impact. It's your way of paying it forward. And
I really believe the self edity is a very powerful tool.
There's things that you could look back on it and said, now,
I really wasn't happy the way that turned out. I'm
not happy the one I was in that situation or
in that period of my life. It's okay to self
(39:08):
bed it. It's okay to learn from that, make a
tubrit for that certainly, but move on, it doesn't serve
you anymore. Let it go, move towards those horizons. Coach
Dravisan Tat look at his life story. All these people
that are so successful that we admire, they've had some darkness,
they've had tough days. So I think it's really the
access that you have to those kind of people to
(39:29):
hear their stories and ask questions of how they change.
I think most people will tell you somebody else helped
them and add all that, and so that inspires you
to do the same for everybody else. So I admire
what you guys are created with SBC because I see
the impact moving forward on so many young lives, and
that's something I really admire. I want to be part of.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
So I appreciate this, Tommy, we appreciate you. And that
term self editing. I have, you know, the hundreds of
thousands of books that I've read or podcasts that listened
to on this subject, I've never heard the term self editing,
So you might want to go trademark that. But is
there anything else we want to cover before we get done?
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I don't think yet. No. I would love to revisit
maybe some other time, you know, this better not be
the twenty sixth than Fintal podcast. We should have this.
You've got a great way, man. We've got to put you.
You got to put a DJ in the quarter, have
a couple of hype guys behind you, but you got
you got the voice for it. Man, It's great.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I just you know what, I appreciate talking to great people. Tommy,
you know, I raally do it you that's you, bro, No,
I really do like listen. I just you know. In closing,
I want to say thank you for for for taking
the time and just being being an example to all
of us. I've always appreciate our relationship and you know,
we've got it. We've always We've gotten to know each
(40:50):
other a little bit better over the past few months
here and uh look looking forward to keeping things going.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I appreciate you so much, Sir Joan, thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
For joining us for the special episode of the SBC
Audio Experience featuring Tommy Shephard. We hope his insights on leadership,
culture and personal growth gave you a deeper understanding of
what it takes to lead at the highest level in
professional sports. If something stood out to you from this episode,
we'd love to hear it, Tag us on Instagram at
Sports Business Classroom and share your favorite takeaway. And if
(41:22):
you haven't already done so, be sure to like, subscribe,
and leave us a review. It helps others discover the show.
Thank you, we'll see you here again soon
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