February 6, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of Spotlight Vancouver, host Doug Varenas speaks with Lacey J. Faught, founder and CEO of Spry Social Media Management and Consulting. They discuss the evolution of social media, the importance of consistency and presence for small businesses, and strategies for effectively engaging with audiences. Lacey shares her journey as an entrepreneur, balancing work and family, and emphasizes the need for businesses to have a purpose. They also delve into the issue of misinformation on social media and introduce the three-click method to help users verify information before sharing.
Takeaways
Lacey J. Faught is the founder of Spry Social Media Management.
Social media has evolved from organic reach to a more advertising-centric model.
Consistency and presence are crucial for small businesses on social media.
Understanding your target audience is key to choosing the right platform.
The three-click method helps combat misinformation on social media.
Investing in your brand's purpose can lead to long-term success.
Community engagement is vital for local businesses.
Social media can amplify in-person community efforts.
Digital literacy is essential for navigating social media effectively.
Misinformation can be mitigated through intentional sharing and verification.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Lacey J. and Her Journey
10:13 The Challenges of Starting a Business Young
12:10 Evolution of Social Media and Its Impact
17:38 Social Media Strategies for Local Businesses
21:43 Leveraging Social Media for Authentic Engagement
23:37 Strategizing Social Media for Small Businesses
29:30 Promoting Digital Literacy and Combating Misinformation
41:55 The Heart and Soul of Entrepreneurship
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. This week, I talked to Lacey J. Fott of Sprye,
(00:06):
Social Media Consulting. And I really think it's the best conversation, one of the best
conversations I've had so far on the show. Incredibly interesting, we talked about the
social media landscape here in Vancouver specifically. We talked about what small businesses need
to do on social media to be successful and what sometimes they do that isn't really working.
And because Lacey's so passionate about disinformation on social media, she gave us a really convenient
(00:31):
three-step way that we can combat misinformation on social media. So like I said, I really
think it's one of the best conversations we've had on the show and I hope you enjoy it.
Hey, everybody. Hello and welcome to the Spotlight Vancouver podcast. I'm your host, Doug Varenes,
Jason's real estate agent in Washington and Oregon. And today on the show, I'm back with
(00:55):
a guest and not just any guest, a lovely guest, Lacey Fott, aka Lacey J. She is the founder
and CEO of Sprye Social Media Management and Consulting. She's also the co-author of the
book Down the Rabbit Hole, Slowing the Spread of Misinformation and Propaganda on Social
(01:19):
Media. And she's also been involved in negotiating Nittie's piece recently. No, I just...
She has not.
That last part, you've done so much. That last part was not true, but the book and the company
is true and it's a lot. And I want to congratulate you on your success and being a CEO and a
badass boss because especially in a city the size of Vancouver and kind of being a smaller city,
(01:46):
I just think... I just admire anyone who can start a business and have it be successful and
having kind of done that myself and still going through that process. I think that's fantastic
and I just... I want to congratulate you on your success.
Thank you. Now, listen, I might not be a peace negotiator, but I do do some other hard things.
One interesting fact you might not know about me is I dance for the Portland Winterhawks
(02:08):
ice hockey team too. There's a dance team called the Rosebuds Dance Team and we dance on ice at
the home games. So, I mean, that's not a peace negotiation, but it's pretty hard to dance on
ice. I'll tell you that. You know what? It's hard to be violent or have those kind of tendencies
when you're dancing, I find. So, I think maybe it is kind of a peace negotiation. I saw that on
(02:29):
your social media. I saw you dancing and that's great too. That's cool. Yeah, it's fun. I've been
a lifelong dancer, danced all the way through college at Washington State University where I
went to school and got my degree in broadcast news and political science as a Crimson Girl at
Washington State University. So, took like eight years off when I had kids and then came back to
(02:50):
do something that I love. That kind of can keep me focused in my work if there's something that
I'm really passionate about that I'm doing on the side as well. Yeah, and we were talking a little
bit about that before we started recording that you were a broadcast major and I mean, it makes
sense that it sort of led you to this point in time where you founded this company that does
(03:14):
social media management and consulting. So, are you from Vancouver? You're from the Washington
area originally? Yeah, I grew up in Battleground, Washington. Oh, okay. So, super local. And then,
I also was wondering if you were a digital native as they say because I'm kind of, you know, I'm
like Gen X. Nobody talks about Gen X anymore, but I grew up without internet. Ooh, that's crazy. And
(03:39):
so, I was wondering if you, you know, grew up in immersed in sort of being online and having
social media be part of your life. Well, I'm an elder millennial. Okay, so I still had to write
my papers in high school using Encarta encyclopedia, you know, like the disk that you would put into
the desktop computer that the family shared in the kitchen area. But then, you know, as I'm in
(04:03):
high school, we're getting AOL and I was on Instant Messenger with my friends and social media really
rolled out while I was in college. So, I was at WSU from 2006 to 2010. And I'll tell you what, I got
very good at social media stalking. Like, you meet one person and you know only their first name and
I could find my way to getting connected to them. And those skills have just continued to flourish
(04:29):
as I've used them in my career too. Yeah, that relationship status, man. I was all over that.
Like, that was a genius move. I'm like, oh, I got to go back and find out. You know, this is kind
of towards the end of college. But yeah, it was, it's a, it was a different ballgame, you know?
So, I've seen it, I've seen it go from nothing to like, you know, kind of required for people,
(04:52):
especially businesses. And when I was in college getting my broadcast news degree, there was no,
there was no education on social media at that time because it wasn't something that was used
for business marketing at all at that time. So, what I found really interesting is what we were
really doing in broadcast news was figuring out how to take something big and complicated that
(05:13):
people care about and package it down into something small, succinct that can get a message
across quickly. And that's really exactly what we're doing in social media with all of the businesses
and organizations that we're working with is we're learning all about their brand personalities,
their business objectives, their target audiences. And we're breaking that down into, you know,
(05:33):
two to five sentence posts that have to move people towards action. And it's worked out very
well. So, and as we've continued having more video content and podcast style content, I've been able
to apply everything that I learned into my career, which I'm very grateful for.
Yeah, not a lot of people can do that. Like I'm a geography major and I'm not even good at
(05:56):
like following a map. Oh, it's fun. I like to travel and, but it didn't really work out as far
as a career because it went towards like computers. Actually, it's a really good career now because
if you get into like computer mapping, obviously, it's everywhere. But I was one of the last classes
that did pen and ink map making. So, wow. Exactly. You're telling me. You're a cartographer.
(06:20):
He's an ancient cartographer. I rolled out a scroll in my pen and ink quill and wrote it down.
Yeah, and I wrote a dinosaur to school too. So, were you always, I know, it was adorable. It was
a little cute, one of the little cute ones. Were you, did you, majoring in that, were you more
on the social media side? Was that your interest or was it more broadcast like being in front of a
(06:42):
camera or a microphone kind of like a talking head, you know, kind of way or was it more social
media? I thought that I was going to go into sports journalism and be a face of broadcast news.
So, that was my overall goal. I had my internship at Fox Sports Northwest and was able to go to
the Mariners Games and interview Felix Hernandez and Ken Griffey Jr. I mean, it was, that was
(07:06):
super cool and I really enjoyed that. That is cool. It was fun and there's a part of me that,
that wonders what my career could have been like going that path, but I just didn't even end up
looking for work in that once I got my degree. I just wasn't sure that the lifestyle was going
to be what I wanted and so I started looking for jobs in marketing with my communications degree
(07:29):
and the first job that I ended up getting was in digital marketing, doing website development and
SEO and I worked there for eight months and that company kind of fell apart a bit, but I learned
so much and built such good relationships with some of the clients that I started my business
immediately after that eight months of working with that company and that's all I've done for the
(07:50):
rest of my career. So, this is my 14th year of having my business and started with,
Oh wow.
Yes, so started with website development and SEO, but as social media became something that was
used for businesses, I started from the very beginning that it was even an option to use for
businesses and started selling that service and then got rid of all the other ones as the business
(08:12):
evolved. Yeah, because 14 years is it's like me and my dinosaur. That's true.
That's like my space. I guess I was still Facebook, but I mean, you saw a lot of websites come and go,
a lot of companies come and go and I think that's interesting that you were on the back end first,
like the SEO marketing stuff because now you're more on the front end, but having that experience,
(08:35):
I imagine is like super, super valuable to have that just know about that back end stuff, that
powers social media campaigns and
You'd be surprised how
Why the scene?
You'd be surprised how much the website and social media technical back end play into each other,
you know, to be able to get more specific audiences, you have to install a pixel on a website to
(08:57):
start gathering IP information for the people who are visiting your website and what you can do with
that. And so being able to have that lexicon and that understanding of how and why things work on
websites has translated very well into being able to run successful social media campaigns.
Yeah, that's such an advantage and I'm not sure, you know, I don't think a lot of people have that
(09:18):
because they might be good at the sort of showy upfront stuff and making a catchy campaign, but
they don't know the technology that goes behind it and sort of how you can tweak the metrics to
have an increased chance of getting it seen.
Yeah, like a holistic view of the whole ecosystem.
Yeah, and 14 years, I did not know you had been in business that long. Shame on me.
(09:46):
14 years and a...
Most people look at me and would not think that that's true, you know what I mean? Most of the time
when I say that number, people's jaws kind of drop as a, you know, a younger woman, I'm like 36.
And so I started this business when I was 22. And so anytime that I dropped that 14 year number,
people are just kind of shocked, which to me feels great. That's like a little bit of an ego
(10:11):
boost to me every time. I'm like, yeah.
Taking as a compliment, I just think being in business for 14 years and then at 22,
what was that like starting your own business at such a young age? I mean, 22, I was pretty
clueless. I was, you know, I took care of myself, but I wasn't starting a business. So I'm curious
on what that process was like for you. You know, it was really hard. I would, I'm glad I did it,
(10:34):
and I would do it again 100 times because of the freedom that I've been able to have as an
entrepreneur. But it was really hard. I was having babies at that time too. So I got married when
I was 21 and I had my first baby at 23, my next at 25. And I was on my own for my business for my
first six years too. So when I was in labor with my first baby, I'm on sales calls, you know,
(11:01):
I'm like swaying back and forth through a contraction and I'm talking to one of my partners
and he's like, what do you think about this? I'm like, okay, I can, I think it could probably be
in this range. I can put an estimate together next week for you. You know, I behaved in a way that
I would, I would never let my employees do that now. You know what I mean? Like my employees who
(11:23):
have had babies working for me, you know, they're off at least, you know, two weeks before their
delivery and they've got six weeks after. And I didn't take a day off, you know, and I'm not
proud of that. I'm not proud of it. I that's a regret that I have is the way that I treated
myself as a resource within my business in the early days when it was just me. But I can't go
(11:46):
back and change it. So I just move forward and I try to treat my employees now with the level
of care that I wish that I would have treated myself with at that time. Yeah, that's something
that I, because you really were doing it all there. And I think sometimes we like to celebrate the
hustle culture, but there's, there's a price to be paid for owning your own business and being the
(12:09):
boss. So I like the freedom and, but there's also, yeah, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of business
owners have regrets about things they miss because they were really, they're working on building that
business. What? I mean, being in business that long, how has the social media landscape changed
in your, in your estimation? What like what's going on? I know it's a lot of time to buffer, but
(12:31):
it's had such an evolution. You know what I mean? When we're talking about the first few years,
it was kind of this really untapped resource where you could just, as long as you were there and you
were doing something, you would get some organic reach, you'd start to build community and you
didn't even have to be that creative or fun. You just had to be there. It's like, I don't know,
(12:52):
I don't have a good, a good, but as it continued to evolve and as each platform becomes more saturated,
then your strategies have to change. You can't rely on organic anymore. You have to start getting
more adept at advertising, which is a whole different set of skills than creating good
organic social media content. So we go from being really good at creating consistent content to being
(13:19):
very creative with content to being adept at advertising. And then above and beyond everything
else is this like flexibility that you have to have in social media because everything is constantly
changing. So you really never master anything. You just learn and adapt and learn and adapt.
And the biggest thing that has mattered through the entire time is consistency and presence. That's
(13:45):
probably the one thing that has not changed is being consistent and being present. The type of
content you create has changed. The skills you need to do advertising has changed. But above
and beyond anything else is just the importance of consistency and presence. And probably if we
were going a little bit more detailed, like intentional presence, especially as small businesses,
(14:09):
we can't be everywhere all the time. So we have to identify this perfect conjunction between the
social media channels that we are most adept at being on, right? Whether that means somebody is
good at being on camera or they're happy to be in photos or they're good writers and they have
(14:30):
good content that can translate to writing. So which platform they're most suited for,
multiplied by what platform their target audience is actually spending time on.
And that's where that intentional presence comes in. Is that factor between where you're good at
showing up and where your audience cares to be already. And that's a constant.
(14:51):
Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned the advertising because I mean, I'm still in my social
media presence, I still relying on organic and like it's been kind of hit or miss. So it's
interesting that you've mentioned like it's moved towards a more advertising centric model.
Yeah. It's just so much for a business. Right. And it's such a science now that I can see businesses
(15:18):
and even myself in my social media, like a lot of people will just are making content, but
you know, maybe it's unfocused. They're kind of just like throwing stuff up, but it's not as
intentional as they'd like. And I see that a lot in real estate and as well as other industries.
But I think that's really interesting your viewpoint on just how it's gone to that
(15:41):
advertising model. Because I don't run a lot of social media ads because I'm like, I can get,
you know, I'm trying to get organic because it's free, but you know, maybe that's not the strategy.
So yeah, it's constantly changing. Well, there's like in order of least to greatest
ability to get organic reach on Facebook, you will get nowhere without ads. Zero. You will get
(16:04):
nowhere. You know, your reach will be such a small percentage that on Facebook, if you're not doing
some sort of ads, it's almost a waste. Next I would put is Instagram. Instagram,
there is still some room to get organic, especially if you're willing to do some hard work of what
we would call presence management, where you're, you know, looking for other places where your
(16:26):
target audience is and you're engaging with them there. And that's drawing them over to your profile
without you having to pay for them. And then TikTok, TikTok, you know, who knows with that
platform right now, but. Oh, we dodged a bullet on that one. That's a TikTok's back, baby.
Well, you can't download it still. It's just on your phone. If you have already downloaded it,
it's still there, but you can't download it. I've already got it. I didn't, it's in like a moratorium.
(16:49):
It's in, it's in the app jail or something. Yes, you got it. And then the one that is,
the platform that is the most fertile ground for organic reach right now is LinkedIn.
And on LinkedIn, that's where if you have zero ad budget, that's your place, because you can still
make a really good amount of impact on LinkedIn with no ad budget.
(17:12):
I've heard Gary V talking about LinkedIn and, and live shopping recently. It's been,
man, you know, I gotta love Gary V. I don't know. Sure you do. Why not?
I mean, why not? I take him or take him or leave him, but you know, I, I was like, LinkedIn, okay.
Is the social media landscape different in this area? Like, does the Northwest have
(17:33):
a specific vibe that works better for businesses? Or is there something that businesses need to
keep in mind that's region specific when it comes to social media? I know social media goes out
everywhere, but you know, for local businesses, they're looking to attract an audience that's
local. Have you seen any difference between what's working in like, or Manhattan or a bigger
(17:55):
market or something? And then kind of, is there any reason specific things business owners need
to know about social media? That's such a good question. I've never gotten that question before,
but I love it. What I would say is people have to always remember that social media is not just
like its own ecosystem all on its own. It's a part of the community that it represents. Okay.
(18:17):
So if you think about social media just as like a digital room where things take place,
just like this conference room that I'm sitting in, you know, then what you think about is whatever
is happening in your community here, it is reflected on social media. So communities that are smaller,
more tight knit, more connected through associations, networking groups, clubs, schools, Facebook,
(18:43):
city or county pages, you know what I mean? Like those kind of intertwined personal connections
that happen in real life are reflected in social media behavior as well. So for an example,
we do have a lot of like community based business groups in Clark County. There's tons of them,
(19:05):
and they are things that people have used for decades to grow their business. And when you get
on to social media, if you can take those in-person things that you're doing and amplify them using
social media, that's something that will work here that probably wouldn't work as well in Portland
or in Tigard because they don't have the same type of community and network that we've built in Southwest
(19:29):
Washington. That's why one of the things that I think is so the lowest hanging fruit for business
people is just to take advantage of whatever in-person things that you're doing and show that on social
media too. When you're at a nonprofit fundraiser dinner, you're taking a picture with people and
then you're tagging those people on social media. It's like, you know, it's the most easy thing to
(19:54):
really be able to do and most people know that they should do it, but they're just not exactly
sure how to implement it and they don't want to look stupid and like asking someone to take a picture
with them is kind of vulnerable sometimes or something. But those are the things that really
make a huge difference with social media, especially in our region. So you're sort of
(20:15):
amplifying your involvement in local events in the community and showing that you're a part of it.
You're active and you're participating and you're not just kind of blasting out stuff that's, yeah.
And most... Well, that makes a lot of sense for... It makes a lot of sense for... Sorry, go ahead.
Most business owners who have been in business for a while understand that concept in real life.
(20:39):
You know, they have been a part of these organizations for a long time because of the
way that it has improved their business and kept a steady stream of leads coming to them over time.
So if we can just get across to people that the exact same process is happening digitally,
if you use it, that's when a light switch can turn on for business owners and they see it as not so
(21:02):
much of a complicated algorithm and more like an extension of what they're doing within their
community already. Right. And it takes the burden off them having to create content rather than just
sort of reflecting what they're already doing, which I find to be super refreshing because it's
just more... I'm just showing what I'm doing rather than artificially creating something that I want
(21:23):
you to watch. Yes. And I think for... I think people value that maybe more in the Pacific
Northwest. I think of people like... They're always talking about community and giving back and...
I mean, it's not just here, but I feel like that's a big part of the Northwest culture is community.
And so that makes a lot of sense just to reflect you're already involved in the community.
(21:47):
And then the science behind... I mean, there is science behind it too, because when you take
that picture with somebody and then you go on to LinkedIn and you tag the other people and you tag
the organization that put it on, especially on LinkedIn, anytime you tag them, it's going to
increase that overarching reach. And then if that person engages, all of a sudden all of those people's
(22:08):
connections are going to get that piece of content in their feed too. So it ends up yielding a huge
amount more organic reach than if you were just creating a post that was selling your services
because it's amplifying this network that already exists for you. So it's easy and it makes sense.
And also it just yields a much higher return. I think it feels better for everybody too,
(22:33):
because I have struggled personally with authenticity. That's like I'm a buzzword now. I want to get
out there and I want to get my services out in the community, but how do I do that in a way
that's true to me and doesn't feel like I'm in a performance or something? So I think that's a
great insight because the consumer is super savvy now. They can see through your spiel about,
(23:02):
you know, in your highly edited stuff on social media. I feel like it's just a more authentic
way to reach people. So I think it's a great insight. Or your chat TPP captioned. Oh yeah.
Yeah. I can't say I haven't used. I know. It's such a, I can't say I haven't used AI to create
(23:24):
a title to something, but that's fine. That's good. It's a balance. I think you got to go back
and edit it. You can't just turn out the stuff and just feel like people aren't going to be able
to pick up on that. So we talked about it a little bit, but the strategy for small businesses here,
like if I'm a small business and I want to get started in social media, but I have no clue where
(23:48):
to start, what would be the first thing I could do? Because I don't think it's an option anymore.
Social media, I mean, I feel like as a business you have to do it. Yeah, I think so too.
So step one is figuring out and just really identifying who your target audience is.
That target audience understanding will allow you to pick which platform you should spend your
(24:08):
time on. Because if you're just starting, you don't have time to throw spaghetti noodles everywhere.
You got to throw one noodle in one mouth and make the, you got to make the basket.
Oh, you're going, oh, you can, you combine so many things. Just let it go. Like sports metaphor
with food. Oh yeah, that's in there. Okay, so that's the most important thing. It's a lot of times
(24:31):
it's broken down based on age, simply age. And then a lot of time it's also broken down based on what
your hopeful call to action is. Okay, so if we've got, if your target customers are over 50,
you're just going to go on Facebook. That's your best option. If your target customers are between
20 and 40, Instagram is going to be a great place for you. TikTok could also be a great place for
(24:55):
you. If any of your work is business to business, LinkedIn is going to be a good platform for you.
Sometimes I get even more granular. Sometimes people don't necessarily think about YouTube
as a platform too. I was just going to ask about YouTube. We haven't, we haven't talked about YouTube
very much. We also work with like a lot of our clients, our industrial clients. Surprisingly,
we've got a lot of welders and fabricators and erectors. It's an interesting industry because
(25:20):
they have really cool projects to showcase. You don't sell a bridge, you know what I mean,
but you've got to connect with the right people in your industry. And by showing off your projects
and capacity, you can do that. But the people who are your target audience aren't scrolling Instagram
looking for some sort of business opportunity, but they may very well be spending time on YouTube,
(25:42):
researching or learning something and having your YouTube short or a little ad in YouTube is going
to speak way better to this more male in 35 to 50 range who's going to be on YouTube and is not
going to be scrolling Instagram reels. So-
I would stop if I saw some welding though.
See, that's what I'm telling you.
I would stop the scroll for, I'm interested. I think it's cool. If people have welding videos,
(26:05):
I'd be all about it. I would stop because you don't see that very often.
Yes. So then you have to think about what kind of behavior you want to get out of your target audience.
Are you trying to connect with them so that you can increase your network? Are you trying to drive
traffic to your website? Are you trying to get more followers and build a greater community?
Each platform is a little bit better at any of those goals. And so we have to figure out that on
(26:32):
top of it. So that's the two things that you're really looking at when you're trying to pick a
platform. And then I like to recommend a minimum viable product for social media is having your
profile set up properly. You have a nice profile photo. You've got a clear bio. You've got a clear
link to your website. And then minimum viable product, if you're posting twice a month on there,
(26:58):
that's fine. You know what I mean? It's something to do and get done. And it means that when somebody
searches you up, they're going to see that you exist. They're going to see that you're posting
fairly consistently. And you've got some social proof there. Okay. If you're just trying to do
the minimum possible to get yourself on social media so that when people look you up, they don't
think that you're like permanently closed because you don't exist on social media, you can get away
(27:23):
with two posts a month and be fine. Yeah, there would be that consistency point that you mentioned.
Consistency doesn't mean necessarily every day. It just means consistency at whatever
pace that you're able to. And I liked in the beginning when you mentioned having a clear
value proposition. I find that's the thing. If you can't explain what you do in a sentence,
(27:48):
it's going to get really confusing for people. And I've seen this happen a lot where I'm just like,
I don't know. You see it in websites, but I also see it on social media. I'm not sure.
Sure. What's the deal? What are you doing? What's the business? So I appreciated that point too.
But yes, it sounds like you need to get the foundation started. You can't build the house
(28:09):
without the foundation, right? With the spaghetti. You can't throw your spaghetti. Shut up. Shut up
about the spaghetti. Open your mouth and build the foundation is what I would also say. One time,
I have a client actually who's in the office behind me here. She does HR. Shout out to Gorge HR.
She's been my HR for God six years, 10 years, maybe. And we did a photo shoot with her once
(28:36):
where we had spaghetti noodles. And I pre-cooked these spaghetti noodles. I tested whether them warm
or cold would stick better to a window. And we've got this photo shoot of her throwing
spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. And that was one of my favorite shoots ever.
Nice. Well, you have kids too. So you probably knew that already. You know exactly that it sticks.
(28:56):
It needs to be a little bit cool before it sticks. You know, I have kids too. I have a little bit
of a temper sometimes. So it might be me throwing the noodles at a time or two. Oh, look out everybody.
But my therapist helps me. My therapist helps me. I'm learning all the grounding techniques.
We're all learning. I'm taking deep breaths. I'm... That's another show. Yeah. I actually...
(29:18):
I got to have my therapist slash coach on. She's a little camera shy. But I want to get into your book
because it's interesting because you work on helping businesses scale and create social media
plans. But you also give back to the community and one of the... Well, you give back by providing a
(29:41):
valuable service. But part of that is, you know, you wrote this book called Down the Rabbit Hole.
You co-wrote it. Slowing the spread of misinformation and propaganda on social media. So...
Which is a big topic because I want to get your take on how you would frame that because I feel
like that's... It's such a... It's such a minefield. Yeah. I was hoping that we would get here next.
(30:06):
You talked about the... I don't know, impressiveness of having a business with the longevity of,
you know, 14 years. And I will say, I think the only way that I've really been able to
accomplish this long in business is by ensuring that my business always has a soul. Like, there
(30:27):
is a soul that is beyond the service in spry. And we have called that social media for good.
Okay. So over the last... This book is one part of that. And that's... This was our big project last
year. But even prior to writing this book, starting in like 2016, we started this social media for
(30:50):
good concept. And the first iteration of this was us going into elementary schools and we
did assembly presentations. We would send out a form ahead of time, like a survey. And all the
students would take this survey and they would give us information like how long they're spending
on social media, what type of social media they're using, how much oversight they're getting from
(31:11):
their parents, what they would tell their parents about their social media use and their cell phone
use if they could. So we've been gathering data about this for getting close to 10 years. And that
was the very beginning of this. I started looking at social media and seeing how addictive it was
and thought like how can we be a positive force for good so that this platform and this type of
(31:38):
media remains relevant. Because if it continues to spiral towards addictive, divisive behavior,
then it's going to collapse and it won't even be useful anymore. So it was really from that point
that I made sure that SPRI was always a digital literacy advocate. Wanted people to know how
(32:01):
it works, why it works, why it's addictive, what they can do to change their behavior so that it
becomes a positive for them so that social media is always a force for good for people and not
something that's negative. Go ahead. Yeah, because social media is a technology and there's certain
design aspects that are made to keep you on it. But like anything else, it's sort of like it can
(32:24):
be good. It can be incredibly good or it can be incredibly destructive. So and most of the time
that comes down to literacy, people think about literacy as the ability to read so often. They
don't exactly understand that literacy has to do with all the context surrounding the information
that is given to them. So that's really the biggest, I have the book right here, that's really the
(32:47):
biggest reason that we wrote this book is to be able to increase digital literacy among Americans
so that the information that they received, they could suss out the legitimacy of it and they could
use the tools and platforms in a way that would benefit themselves and their communities and
not have it be used on them to manipulate and control. I'm very like as soon as I start,
(33:14):
as soon as I start talking about this, I always, my heart rate kind of increases and I can feel
the energy in my body because it's something that I just feel so strongly about and care so much about.
The passion is coming through. I think it's a, it gets kind of talked about, but not really. And
I don't think we're teaching kids those tools of how to identify, you know, at least check things,
(33:41):
like at least, you know, kind of verify. I mean, my brother was on social media during the holidays
and he's like, Morgan Freeman died. And I was like, oh, that's weird. I didn't hear anything about that.
Come to find out. Not even true. So it's just, there is a lot of misinformation out there on,
you know, everywhere of all kinds. And are you guys still going into schools or what's your role
(34:03):
these days with promoting like literacy for social media?
So right now we're doing a lot of guest lecturing at the collegiate level. So we're going into
collegiate communications class, social, social classes and political science classes.
And the long term goal for this book is to get it in college curriculum as well as we're working
(34:26):
towards getting it in any sort of high school or middle school curriculum as well. It's written
in a very approachable way. We tried to write it at about a sixth grade reading level so that
anyone could take it and apply the information as much as possible. The thing that is the most
kind of unique element and the most applicable element for people is something that we've called
(34:49):
the three-click method, which this idea evolved. We didn't have a name for it back in 2020, but
this idea evolved at that time because you can imagine as social media managers through before
pandemic, through pandemic, through the entire last five years, we saw this huge shift happening
(35:10):
on social media where it really changed into a polarized place where people were looking for
reasons to fight with each other and rage bait was everywhere. And what we saw, which was really
interesting was obviously we had to start taking pictures of people in masks and showing that.
And when we would say something about the mask mandates that was what the restaurant was going
(35:34):
to be having because of the guidelines that were coming through, we would start seeing
these comments coming on these posts that were like a specific phrase or an image that had
a boot on someone's face, an American flag in the background. And as we're in our production
meetings where all of us who are managing 50 social media profiles, I say I'm seeing this
(36:00):
and then someone else says they're seeing it too. And so all of a sudden we start saying,
okay, that doesn't seem normal. And we click through and look at the profiles that are posting
these and we're finding that these are bot comments. They're not real people. They're posts that have
been made by accounts that have been hacked that are driving these arguments. And so we're
(36:23):
seeing these arguments and they're not even real people driving the arguments. And so that's where
this concept of the three-click method came up, which is very simple. It's like the most simple
way that we could come up with to verify information quickly. Do you want to hear it?
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay. So let's say you're scrolling through your feed, maybe you're on Facebook and you're scrolling
(36:45):
down your feed or you're on Instagram and you're going through your stories feed and you see
the video that's shared. Okay. When somebody shares a piece of content, some of the context is
missing right away, like the caption either gets put below or the caption is hidden and all that
they're sharing is the visual. And so click number one is to click to view the entire post that
(37:08):
you're looking at. Okay. So you click to see the post and read the caption. Okay. That might take
30 seconds. Okay. You're reading the whole post. Click number two is to see the profile of the person
who published this piece of content. So now all you have to do is click on the name or the profile
photo. That's the second click. And now you're on that profile. And there you can look and see
(37:32):
what the bio says. You can scroll through the other content they're posting to see, okay, is this
type of content stuff that I agree with? Do I think it looks legitimate? What other types of
things are they posting about? And then click number three, only the smartest people are going
to do click number three. Okay. We're only at about 45 seconds of effort here, but the smartest
(37:55):
people will do click number three. You who wrote dinosaurs to school got to be among the smartest.
I would like to think so. We'll see. Click number three is looking at the about info on a profile.
In the book, we have diagrams that show exactly how to get there on Instagram. There's like three
(38:16):
dots at the top of a profile. And you can click that and see about this account. And that opens up
and shows you the date that that profile was created. It also shows you the country of origin
for that profile. And it shows you any former usernames like has this profile ever been called
(38:38):
something else before. And those are your three clicks. That's it. And all you really have to do
is before you share whatever it is that you saw or even before you let yourself feel really big
emotions about what you've seen, you do those three clicks. It's going to take you about 60
seconds. And then you can decide whether you want to invest your emotions and or amplify that content
(39:00):
by sharing it or engaging with it as well. Yeah. And it doesn't take a lot of time. I guess my,
I hope people would do that. But I mean, I just know in this like
world, I hope people will do that. But I know it's so easy to hit that share button right away
because you're you're fired up. But I like the point of just like taking a minute to be like,
(39:22):
this doesn't have to have control over me. I don't have to get fired up about this. Like maybe,
yeah, maybe take a few seconds before. Well, yeah, I mean, it and it's out of context possibly.
So exactly. I mean, I love the idea of just kind of like sitting on it for a few seconds and being
like, is this something like, is this something I even want to like take in? Is, you know,
(39:42):
does that make sense? Yeah. So if you can see like the tagline of this book being slowing the spread
of misinformation and propaganda, that's what this three click method allows us to do.
And I honestly think that if 40%, God, even if 15, 20% of the people on social media used the
three click method, that the rate at which misinformation would spread would decrease
(40:06):
so substantially. If you just spent that few seconds to decide if it's worth investing your
emotions into, if it's worth amplifying that message, if you trust that creator enough to
amplify that message. And I don't care exactly what the message is, I just want you to be intentional
about whether or not you want to share that, or are you being coerced to share that by the factors
(40:31):
in the content as well as the factors in the platform that make it so easy to share without
checking? Right. I love that because it covers all the bases because misinformation can come from
any side and it is, you know, it doesn't, it's not political. I've seen misinformation on all
sides and thankfully Morgan Freeman is still alive as far as I know. Thank goodness.
(40:52):
Yeah, I was like, oh, that kind of bummed out. But if my brother would have done that and just
checked on it, you know, we wouldn't have had that misinformation being spread even if it was just in
our little house area. So I appreciate the fact that you have that as a part of your business,
like having, you know, you're helping people amplify their message, which is a good one,
(41:15):
I'm assuming you're not helping anybody that's got a horrible product. But at the same time,
you're teaching us all how to just kind of like take a pause before you share something because
that share is powerful. Yeah. And if we're bringing this all the way back to like small businesses
and business ownership and entrepreneurship, one of the biggest pieces of advice that I think I would
(41:37):
give to entrepreneurs is to ensure that your brand has some sort of soul and be willing to invest in
it. You know, I've, I have, I spent $20,000 last year to get this book made and published. And
that doesn't include the salary time that Adrienne and I spent working on the book as well. And the
(42:00):
time we spent to go on a little writing retreat, you know, like I was willing to put a significant
amount of investment into something that means something to my heart and my soul. And if I don't
do that, then my work is just work. And I could go work for somebody else at any time. But instead of
that, I entwine my heart into my purpose and the work that I do. And that's the only way that I
(42:27):
survive being an entrepreneur for as long as I have been and going through everything that it takes.
Right. Being mission driven is everything. And I think that's a good place to kind of leave it
for now. I want you to let people know where they can find you if they're looking for your services
or want to reach out because it truly is a valuable service for small businesses. Where can people
(42:51):
find you? Thank you. My profiles personally, if you look up Lacey J. Fott on any social media,
that's where you'll find me. My business is Sprye, but our handles are ThinkSprye everywhere on social
media. And our domain name is ThinkSprye.com. And then if you are looking for this book at all,
(43:11):
you can DM me on any of my social media channels, but it's also available on Amazon. So if you look
up down the rabbit hole book, and if you struggle to find it, you can add Lacey J. onto there as well.
And this is what it looks like. It's got a one thing we didn't mention is it's Alice in Wonderland
themed down the rabbit hole. And so each section has a little bit of a Alice in Wonderland allegory
(43:37):
to it to make it really nice and approachable for people too. So very cool. Well, thanks for all
you do, Lacey. It's been an absolute pleasure talking with you today. And good luck to you in
the future. It's a great service that you provide. Thank you, Doug. And thank you for having me on.
I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you. And we'll see you next time. Okay.
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. This week, I talked to Lacey J. Fott of Sprye,
(00:06):
Social Media Consulting. And I really think it's the best conversation, one of the best
conversations I've had so far on the show. Incredibly interesting, we talked about the
social media landscape here in Vancouver specifically. We talked about what small businesses need
to do on social media to be successful and what sometimes they do that isn't really working.
And because Lacey's so passionate about disinformation on social media, she gave us a really convenient
(00:31):
three-step way that we can combat misinformation on social media. So like I said, I really
think it's one of the best conversations we've had on the show and I hope you enjoy it.
Hey, everybody. Hello and welcome to the Spotlight Vancouver podcast. I'm your host, Doug Varenes,
Jason's real estate agent in Washington and Oregon. And today on the show, I'm back with
(00:55):
a guest and not just any guest, a lovely guest, Lacey Fott, aka Lacey J. She is the founder
and CEO of Sprye Social Media Management and Consulting. She's also the co-author of the
book Down the Rabbit Hole, Slowing the Spread of Misinformation and Propaganda on Social
(01:19):
Media. And she's also been involved in negotiating Nittie's piece recently. No, I just...
She has not.
That last part, you've done so much. That last part was not true, but the book and the company
is true and it's a lot. And I want to congratulate you on your success and being a CEO and a
badass boss because especially in a city the size of Vancouver and kind of being a smaller city,
(01:46):
I just think... I just admire anyone who can start a business and have it be successful and
having kind of done that myself and still going through that process. I think that's fantastic
and I just... I want to congratulate you on your success.
Thank you. Now, listen, I might not be a peace negotiator, but I do do some other hard things.
One interesting fact you might not know about me is I dance for the Portland Winterhawks
(02:08):
ice hockey team too. There's a dance team called the Rosebuds Dance Team and we dance on ice at
the home games. So, I mean, that's not a peace negotiation, but it's pretty hard to dance on
ice. I'll tell you that. You know what? It's hard to be violent or have those kind of tendencies
when you're dancing, I find. So, I think maybe it is kind of a peace negotiation. I saw that on
(02:29):
your social media. I saw you dancing and that's great too. That's cool. Yeah, it's fun. I've been
a lifelong dancer, danced all the way through college at Washington State University where I
went to school and got my degree in broadcast news and political science as a Crimson Girl at
Washington State University. So, took like eight years off when I had kids and then came back to
(02:50):
do something that I love. That kind of can keep me focused in my work if there's something that
I'm really passionate about that I'm doing on the side as well. Yeah, and we were talking a little
bit about that before we started recording that you were a broadcast major and I mean, it makes
sense that it sort of led you to this point in time where you founded this company that does
(03:14):
social media management and consulting. So, are you from Vancouver? You're from the Washington
area originally? Yeah, I grew up in Battleground, Washington. Oh, okay. So, super local. And then,
I also was wondering if you were a digital native as they say because I'm kind of, you know, I'm
like Gen X. Nobody talks about Gen X anymore, but I grew up without internet. Ooh, that's crazy. And
(03:39):
so, I was wondering if you, you know, grew up in immersed in sort of being online and having
social media be part of your life. Well, I'm an elder millennial. Okay, so I still had to write
my papers in high school using Encarta encyclopedia, you know, like the disk that you would put into
the desktop computer that the family shared in the kitchen area. But then, you know, as I'm in
(04:03):
high school, we're getting AOL and I was on Instant Messenger with my friends and social media really
rolled out while I was in college. So, I was at WSU from 2006 to 2010. And I'll tell you what, I got
very good at social media stalking. Like, you meet one person and you know only their first name and
I could find my way to getting connected to them. And those skills have just continued to flourish
(04:29):
as I've used them in my career too. Yeah, that relationship status, man. I was all over that.
Like, that was a genius move. I'm like, oh, I got to go back and find out. You know, this is kind
of towards the end of college. But yeah, it was, it's a, it was a different ballgame, you know?
So, I've seen it, I've seen it go from nothing to like, you know, kind of required for people,
(04:52):
especially businesses. And when I was in college getting my broadcast news degree, there was no,
there was no education on social media at that time because it wasn't something that was used
for business marketing at all at that time. So, what I found really interesting is what we were
really doing in broadcast news was figuring out how to take something big and complicated that
(05:13):
people care about and package it down into something small, succinct that can get a message
across quickly. And that's really exactly what we're doing in social media with all of the businesses
and organizations that we're working with is we're learning all about their brand personalities,
their business objectives, their target audiences. And we're breaking that down into, you know,
(05:33):
two to five sentence posts that have to move people towards action. And it's worked out very
well. So, and as we've continued having more video content and podcast style content, I've been able
to apply everything that I learned into my career, which I'm very grateful for.
Yeah, not a lot of people can do that. Like I'm a geography major and I'm not even good at
(05:56):
like following a map. Oh, it's fun. I like to travel and, but it didn't really work out as far
as a career because it went towards like computers. Actually, it's a really good career now because
if you get into like computer mapping, obviously, it's everywhere. But I was one of the last classes
that did pen and ink map making. So, wow. Exactly. You're telling me. You're a cartographer.
(06:20):
He's an ancient cartographer. I rolled out a scroll in my pen and ink quill and wrote it down.
Yeah, and I wrote a dinosaur to school too. So, were you always, I know, it was adorable. It was
a little cute, one of the little cute ones. Were you, did you, majoring in that, were you more
on the social media side? Was that your interest or was it more broadcast like being in front of a
(06:42):
camera or a microphone kind of like a talking head, you know, kind of way or was it more social
media? I thought that I was going to go into sports journalism and be a face of broadcast news.
So, that was my overall goal. I had my internship at Fox Sports Northwest and was able to go to
the Mariners Games and interview Felix Hernandez and Ken Griffey Jr. I mean, it was, that was
(07:06):
super cool and I really enjoyed that. That is cool. It was fun and there's a part of me that,
that wonders what my career could have been like going that path, but I just didn't even end up
looking for work in that once I got my degree. I just wasn't sure that the lifestyle was going
to be what I wanted and so I started looking for jobs in marketing with my communications degree
(07:29):
and the first job that I ended up getting was in digital marketing, doing website development and
SEO and I worked there for eight months and that company kind of fell apart a bit, but I learned
so much and built such good relationships with some of the clients that I started my business
immediately after that eight months of working with that company and that's all I've done for the
(07:50):
rest of my career. So, this is my 14th year of having my business and started with,
Oh wow.
Yes, so started with website development and SEO, but as social media became something that was
used for businesses, I started from the very beginning that it was even an option to use for
businesses and started selling that service and then got rid of all the other ones as the business
(08:12):
evolved. Yeah, because 14 years is it's like me and my dinosaur. That's true.
That's like my space. I guess I was still Facebook, but I mean, you saw a lot of websites come and go,
a lot of companies come and go and I think that's interesting that you were on the back end first,
like the SEO marketing stuff because now you're more on the front end, but having that experience,
(08:35):
I imagine is like super, super valuable to have that just know about that back end stuff, that
powers social media campaigns and
You'd be surprised how
Why the scene?
You'd be surprised how much the website and social media technical back end play into each other,
you know, to be able to get more specific audiences, you have to install a pixel on a website to
(08:57):
start gathering IP information for the people who are visiting your website and what you can do with
that. And so being able to have that lexicon and that understanding of how and why things work on
websites has translated very well into being able to run successful social media campaigns.
Yeah, that's such an advantage and I'm not sure, you know, I don't think a lot of people have that
(09:18):
because they might be good at the sort of showy upfront stuff and making a catchy campaign, but
they don't know the technology that goes behind it and sort of how you can tweak the metrics to
have an increased chance of getting it seen.
Yeah, like a holistic view of the whole ecosystem.
Yeah, and 14 years, I did not know you had been in business that long. Shame on me.
(09:46):
14 years and a...
Most people look at me and would not think that that's true, you know what I mean? Most of the time
when I say that number, people's jaws kind of drop as a, you know, a younger woman, I'm like 36.
And so I started this business when I was 22. And so anytime that I dropped that 14 year number,
people are just kind of shocked, which to me feels great. That's like a little bit of an ego
(10:11):
boost to me every time. I'm like, yeah.
Taking as a compliment, I just think being in business for 14 years and then at 22,
what was that like starting your own business at such a young age? I mean, 22, I was pretty
clueless. I was, you know, I took care of myself, but I wasn't starting a business. So I'm curious
on what that process was like for you. You know, it was really hard. I would, I'm glad I did it,
(10:34):
and I would do it again 100 times because of the freedom that I've been able to have as an
entrepreneur. But it was really hard. I was having babies at that time too. So I got married when
I was 21 and I had my first baby at 23, my next at 25. And I was on my own for my business for my
first six years too. So when I was in labor with my first baby, I'm on sales calls, you know,
(11:01):
I'm like swaying back and forth through a contraction and I'm talking to one of my partners
and he's like, what do you think about this? I'm like, okay, I can, I think it could probably be
in this range. I can put an estimate together next week for you. You know, I behaved in a way that
I would, I would never let my employees do that now. You know what I mean? Like my employees who
(11:23):
have had babies working for me, you know, they're off at least, you know, two weeks before their
delivery and they've got six weeks after. And I didn't take a day off, you know, and I'm not
proud of that. I'm not proud of it. I that's a regret that I have is the way that I treated
myself as a resource within my business in the early days when it was just me. But I can't go
(11:46):
back and change it. So I just move forward and I try to treat my employees now with the level
of care that I wish that I would have treated myself with at that time. Yeah, that's something
that I, because you really were doing it all there. And I think sometimes we like to celebrate the
hustle culture, but there's, there's a price to be paid for owning your own business and being the
(12:09):
boss. So I like the freedom and, but there's also, yeah, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of business
owners have regrets about things they miss because they were really, they're working on building that
business. What? I mean, being in business that long, how has the social media landscape changed
in your, in your estimation? What like what's going on? I know it's a lot of time to buffer, but
(12:31):
it's had such an evolution. You know what I mean? When we're talking about the first few years,
it was kind of this really untapped resource where you could just, as long as you were there and you
were doing something, you would get some organic reach, you'd start to build community and you
didn't even have to be that creative or fun. You just had to be there. It's like, I don't know,
(12:52):
I don't have a good, a good, but as it continued to evolve and as each platform becomes more saturated,
then your strategies have to change. You can't rely on organic anymore. You have to start getting
more adept at advertising, which is a whole different set of skills than creating good
organic social media content. So we go from being really good at creating consistent content to being
(13:19):
very creative with content to being adept at advertising. And then above and beyond everything
else is this like flexibility that you have to have in social media because everything is constantly
changing. So you really never master anything. You just learn and adapt and learn and adapt.
And the biggest thing that has mattered through the entire time is consistency and presence. That's
(13:45):
probably the one thing that has not changed is being consistent and being present. The type of
content you create has changed. The skills you need to do advertising has changed. But above
and beyond anything else is just the importance of consistency and presence. And probably if we
were going a little bit more detailed, like intentional presence, especially as small businesses,
(14:09):
we can't be everywhere all the time. So we have to identify this perfect conjunction between the
social media channels that we are most adept at being on, right? Whether that means somebody is
good at being on camera or they're happy to be in photos or they're good writers and they have
(14:30):
good content that can translate to writing. So which platform they're most suited for,
multiplied by what platform their target audience is actually spending time on.
And that's where that intentional presence comes in. Is that factor between where you're good at
showing up and where your audience cares to be already. And that's a constant.
(14:51):
Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned the advertising because I mean, I'm still in my social
media presence, I still relying on organic and like it's been kind of hit or miss. So it's
interesting that you've mentioned like it's moved towards a more advertising centric model.
Yeah. It's just so much for a business. Right. And it's such a science now that I can see businesses
(15:18):
and even myself in my social media, like a lot of people will just are making content, but
you know, maybe it's unfocused. They're kind of just like throwing stuff up, but it's not as
intentional as they'd like. And I see that a lot in real estate and as well as other industries.
But I think that's really interesting your viewpoint on just how it's gone to that
(15:41):
advertising model. Because I don't run a lot of social media ads because I'm like, I can get,
you know, I'm trying to get organic because it's free, but you know, maybe that's not the strategy.
So yeah, it's constantly changing. Well, there's like in order of least to greatest
ability to get organic reach on Facebook, you will get nowhere without ads. Zero. You will get
(16:04):
nowhere. You know, your reach will be such a small percentage that on Facebook, if you're not doing
some sort of ads, it's almost a waste. Next I would put is Instagram. Instagram,
there is still some room to get organic, especially if you're willing to do some hard work of what
we would call presence management, where you're, you know, looking for other places where your
(16:26):
target audience is and you're engaging with them there. And that's drawing them over to your profile
without you having to pay for them. And then TikTok, TikTok, you know, who knows with that
platform right now, but. Oh, we dodged a bullet on that one. That's a TikTok's back, baby.
Well, you can't download it still. It's just on your phone. If you have already downloaded it,
it's still there, but you can't download it. I've already got it. I didn't, it's in like a moratorium.
(16:49):
It's in, it's in the app jail or something. Yes, you got it. And then the one that is,
the platform that is the most fertile ground for organic reach right now is LinkedIn.
And on LinkedIn, that's where if you have zero ad budget, that's your place, because you can still
make a really good amount of impact on LinkedIn with no ad budget.
(17:12):
I've heard Gary V talking about LinkedIn and, and live shopping recently. It's been,
man, you know, I gotta love Gary V. I don't know. Sure you do. Why not?
I mean, why not? I take him or take him or leave him, but you know, I, I was like, LinkedIn, okay.
Is the social media landscape different in this area? Like, does the Northwest have
(17:33):
a specific vibe that works better for businesses? Or is there something that businesses need to
keep in mind that's region specific when it comes to social media? I know social media goes out
everywhere, but you know, for local businesses, they're looking to attract an audience that's
local. Have you seen any difference between what's working in like, or Manhattan or a bigger
(17:55):
market or something? And then kind of, is there any reason specific things business owners need
to know about social media? That's such a good question. I've never gotten that question before,
but I love it. What I would say is people have to always remember that social media is not just
like its own ecosystem all on its own. It's a part of the community that it represents. Okay.
(18:17):
So if you think about social media just as like a digital room where things take place,
just like this conference room that I'm sitting in, you know, then what you think about is whatever
is happening in your community here, it is reflected on social media. So communities that are smaller,
more tight knit, more connected through associations, networking groups, clubs, schools, Facebook,
(18:43):
city or county pages, you know what I mean? Like those kind of intertwined personal connections
that happen in real life are reflected in social media behavior as well. So for an example,
we do have a lot of like community based business groups in Clark County. There's tons of them,
(19:05):
and they are things that people have used for decades to grow their business. And when you get
on to social media, if you can take those in-person things that you're doing and amplify them using
social media, that's something that will work here that probably wouldn't work as well in Portland
or in Tigard because they don't have the same type of community and network that we've built in Southwest
(19:29):
Washington. That's why one of the things that I think is so the lowest hanging fruit for business
people is just to take advantage of whatever in-person things that you're doing and show that on social
media too. When you're at a nonprofit fundraiser dinner, you're taking a picture with people and
then you're tagging those people on social media. It's like, you know, it's the most easy thing to
(19:54):
really be able to do and most people know that they should do it, but they're just not exactly
sure how to implement it and they don't want to look stupid and like asking someone to take a picture
with them is kind of vulnerable sometimes or something. But those are the things that really
make a huge difference with social media, especially in our region. So you're sort of
(20:15):
amplifying your involvement in local events in the community and showing that you're a part of it.
You're active and you're participating and you're not just kind of blasting out stuff that's, yeah.
And most... Well, that makes a lot of sense for... It makes a lot of sense for... Sorry, go ahead.
Most business owners who have been in business for a while understand that concept in real life.
(20:39):
You know, they have been a part of these organizations for a long time because of the
way that it has improved their business and kept a steady stream of leads coming to them over time.
So if we can just get across to people that the exact same process is happening digitally,
if you use it, that's when a light switch can turn on for business owners and they see it as not so
(21:02):
much of a complicated algorithm and more like an extension of what they're doing within their
community already. Right. And it takes the burden off them having to create content rather than just
sort of reflecting what they're already doing, which I find to be super refreshing because it's
just more... I'm just showing what I'm doing rather than artificially creating something that I want
(21:23):
you to watch. Yes. And I think for... I think people value that maybe more in the Pacific
Northwest. I think of people like... They're always talking about community and giving back and...
I mean, it's not just here, but I feel like that's a big part of the Northwest culture is community.
And so that makes a lot of sense just to reflect you're already involved in the community.
(21:47):
And then the science behind... I mean, there is science behind it too, because when you take
that picture with somebody and then you go on to LinkedIn and you tag the other people and you tag
the organization that put it on, especially on LinkedIn, anytime you tag them, it's going to
increase that overarching reach. And then if that person engages, all of a sudden all of those people's
(22:08):
connections are going to get that piece of content in their feed too. So it ends up yielding a huge
amount more organic reach than if you were just creating a post that was selling your services
because it's amplifying this network that already exists for you. So it's easy and it makes sense.
And also it just yields a much higher return. I think it feels better for everybody too,
(22:33):
because I have struggled personally with authenticity. That's like I'm a buzzword now. I want to get
out there and I want to get my services out in the community, but how do I do that in a way
that's true to me and doesn't feel like I'm in a performance or something? So I think that's a
great insight because the consumer is super savvy now. They can see through your spiel about,
(23:02):
you know, in your highly edited stuff on social media. I feel like it's just a more authentic
way to reach people. So I think it's a great insight. Or your chat TPP captioned. Oh yeah.
Yeah. I can't say I haven't used. I know. It's such a, I can't say I haven't used AI to create
(23:24):
a title to something, but that's fine. That's good. It's a balance. I think you got to go back
and edit it. You can't just turn out the stuff and just feel like people aren't going to be able
to pick up on that. So we talked about it a little bit, but the strategy for small businesses here,
like if I'm a small business and I want to get started in social media, but I have no clue where
(23:48):
to start, what would be the first thing I could do? Because I don't think it's an option anymore.
Social media, I mean, I feel like as a business you have to do it. Yeah, I think so too.
So step one is figuring out and just really identifying who your target audience is.
That target audience understanding will allow you to pick which platform you should spend your
(24:08):
time on. Because if you're just starting, you don't have time to throw spaghetti noodles everywhere.
You got to throw one noodle in one mouth and make the, you got to make the basket.
Oh, you're going, oh, you can, you combine so many things. Just let it go. Like sports metaphor
with food. Oh yeah, that's in there. Okay, so that's the most important thing. It's a lot of times
(24:31):
it's broken down based on age, simply age. And then a lot of time it's also broken down based on what
your hopeful call to action is. Okay, so if we've got, if your target customers are over 50,
you're just going to go on Facebook. That's your best option. If your target customers are between
20 and 40, Instagram is going to be a great place for you. TikTok could also be a great place for
(24:55):
you. If any of your work is business to business, LinkedIn is going to be a good platform for you.
Sometimes I get even more granular. Sometimes people don't necessarily think about YouTube
as a platform too. I was just going to ask about YouTube. We haven't, we haven't talked about YouTube
very much. We also work with like a lot of our clients, our industrial clients. Surprisingly,
we've got a lot of welders and fabricators and erectors. It's an interesting industry because
(25:20):
they have really cool projects to showcase. You don't sell a bridge, you know what I mean,
but you've got to connect with the right people in your industry. And by showing off your projects
and capacity, you can do that. But the people who are your target audience aren't scrolling Instagram
looking for some sort of business opportunity, but they may very well be spending time on YouTube,
(25:42):
researching or learning something and having your YouTube short or a little ad in YouTube is going
to speak way better to this more male in 35 to 50 range who's going to be on YouTube and is not
going to be scrolling Instagram reels. So-
I would stop if I saw some welding though.
See, that's what I'm telling you.
I would stop the scroll for, I'm interested. I think it's cool. If people have welding videos,
(26:05):
I'd be all about it. I would stop because you don't see that very often.
Yes. So then you have to think about what kind of behavior you want to get out of your target audience.
Are you trying to connect with them so that you can increase your network? Are you trying to drive
traffic to your website? Are you trying to get more followers and build a greater community?
Each platform is a little bit better at any of those goals. And so we have to figure out that on
(26:32):
top of it. So that's the two things that you're really looking at when you're trying to pick a
platform. And then I like to recommend a minimum viable product for social media is having your
profile set up properly. You have a nice profile photo. You've got a clear bio. You've got a clear
link to your website. And then minimum viable product, if you're posting twice a month on there,
(26:58):
that's fine. You know what I mean? It's something to do and get done. And it means that when somebody
searches you up, they're going to see that you exist. They're going to see that you're posting
fairly consistently. And you've got some social proof there. Okay. If you're just trying to do
the minimum possible to get yourself on social media so that when people look you up, they don't
think that you're like permanently closed because you don't exist on social media, you can get away
(27:23):
with two posts a month and be fine. Yeah, there would be that consistency point that you mentioned.
Consistency doesn't mean necessarily every day. It just means consistency at whatever
pace that you're able to. And I liked in the beginning when you mentioned having a clear
value proposition. I find that's the thing. If you can't explain what you do in a sentence,
(27:48):
it's going to get really confusing for people. And I've seen this happen a lot where I'm just like,
I don't know. You see it in websites, but I also see it on social media. I'm not sure.
Sure. What's the deal? What are you doing? What's the business? So I appreciated that point too.
But yes, it sounds like you need to get the foundation started. You can't build the house
(28:09):
without the foundation, right? With the spaghetti. You can't throw your spaghetti. Shut up. Shut up
about the spaghetti. Open your mouth and build the foundation is what I would also say. One time,
I have a client actually who's in the office behind me here. She does HR. Shout out to Gorge HR.
She's been my HR for God six years, 10 years, maybe. And we did a photo shoot with her once
(28:36):
where we had spaghetti noodles. And I pre-cooked these spaghetti noodles. I tested whether them warm
or cold would stick better to a window. And we've got this photo shoot of her throwing
spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. And that was one of my favorite shoots ever.
Nice. Well, you have kids too. So you probably knew that already. You know exactly that it sticks.
(28:56):
It needs to be a little bit cool before it sticks. You know, I have kids too. I have a little bit
of a temper sometimes. So it might be me throwing the noodles at a time or two. Oh, look out everybody.
But my therapist helps me. My therapist helps me. I'm learning all the grounding techniques.
We're all learning. I'm taking deep breaths. I'm... That's another show. Yeah. I actually...
(29:18):
I got to have my therapist slash coach on. She's a little camera shy. But I want to get into your book
because it's interesting because you work on helping businesses scale and create social media
plans. But you also give back to the community and one of the... Well, you give back by providing a
(29:41):
valuable service. But part of that is, you know, you wrote this book called Down the Rabbit Hole.
You co-wrote it. Slowing the spread of misinformation and propaganda on social media. So...
Which is a big topic because I want to get your take on how you would frame that because I feel
like that's... It's such a... It's such a minefield. Yeah. I was hoping that we would get here next.
(30:06):
You talked about the... I don't know, impressiveness of having a business with the longevity of,
you know, 14 years. And I will say, I think the only way that I've really been able to
accomplish this long in business is by ensuring that my business always has a soul. Like, there
(30:27):
is a soul that is beyond the service in spry. And we have called that social media for good.
Okay. So over the last... This book is one part of that. And that's... This was our big project last
year. But even prior to writing this book, starting in like 2016, we started this social media for
(30:50):
good concept. And the first iteration of this was us going into elementary schools and we
did assembly presentations. We would send out a form ahead of time, like a survey. And all the
students would take this survey and they would give us information like how long they're spending
on social media, what type of social media they're using, how much oversight they're getting from
(31:11):
their parents, what they would tell their parents about their social media use and their cell phone
use if they could. So we've been gathering data about this for getting close to 10 years. And that
was the very beginning of this. I started looking at social media and seeing how addictive it was
and thought like how can we be a positive force for good so that this platform and this type of
(31:38):
media remains relevant. Because if it continues to spiral towards addictive, divisive behavior,
then it's going to collapse and it won't even be useful anymore. So it was really from that point
that I made sure that SPRI was always a digital literacy advocate. Wanted people to know how
(32:01):
it works, why it works, why it's addictive, what they can do to change their behavior so that it
becomes a positive for them so that social media is always a force for good for people and not
something that's negative. Go ahead. Yeah, because social media is a technology and there's certain
design aspects that are made to keep you on it. But like anything else, it's sort of like it can
(32:24):
be good. It can be incredibly good or it can be incredibly destructive. So and most of the time
that comes down to literacy, people think about literacy as the ability to read so often. They
don't exactly understand that literacy has to do with all the context surrounding the information
that is given to them. So that's really the biggest, I have the book right here, that's really the
(32:47):
biggest reason that we wrote this book is to be able to increase digital literacy among Americans
so that the information that they received, they could suss out the legitimacy of it and they could
use the tools and platforms in a way that would benefit themselves and their communities and
not have it be used on them to manipulate and control. I'm very like as soon as I start,
(33:14):
as soon as I start talking about this, I always, my heart rate kind of increases and I can feel
the energy in my body because it's something that I just feel so strongly about and care so much about.
The passion is coming through. I think it's a, it gets kind of talked about, but not really. And
I don't think we're teaching kids those tools of how to identify, you know, at least check things,
(33:41):
like at least, you know, kind of verify. I mean, my brother was on social media during the holidays
and he's like, Morgan Freeman died. And I was like, oh, that's weird. I didn't hear anything about that.
Come to find out. Not even true. So it's just, there is a lot of misinformation out there on,
you know, everywhere of all kinds. And are you guys still going into schools or what's your role
(34:03):
these days with promoting like literacy for social media?
So right now we're doing a lot of guest lecturing at the collegiate level. So we're going into
collegiate communications class, social, social classes and political science classes.
And the long term goal for this book is to get it in college curriculum as well as we're working
(34:26):
towards getting it in any sort of high school or middle school curriculum as well. It's written
in a very approachable way. We tried to write it at about a sixth grade reading level so that
anyone could take it and apply the information as much as possible. The thing that is the most
kind of unique element and the most applicable element for people is something that we've called
(34:49):
the three-click method, which this idea evolved. We didn't have a name for it back in 2020, but
this idea evolved at that time because you can imagine as social media managers through before
pandemic, through pandemic, through the entire last five years, we saw this huge shift happening
(35:10):
on social media where it really changed into a polarized place where people were looking for
reasons to fight with each other and rage bait was everywhere. And what we saw, which was really
interesting was obviously we had to start taking pictures of people in masks and showing that.
And when we would say something about the mask mandates that was what the restaurant was going
(35:34):
to be having because of the guidelines that were coming through, we would start seeing
these comments coming on these posts that were like a specific phrase or an image that had
a boot on someone's face, an American flag in the background. And as we're in our production
meetings where all of us who are managing 50 social media profiles, I say I'm seeing this
(36:00):
and then someone else says they're seeing it too. And so all of a sudden we start saying,
okay, that doesn't seem normal. And we click through and look at the profiles that are posting
these and we're finding that these are bot comments. They're not real people. They're posts that have
been made by accounts that have been hacked that are driving these arguments. And so we're
(36:23):
seeing these arguments and they're not even real people driving the arguments. And so that's where
this concept of the three-click method came up, which is very simple. It's like the most simple
way that we could come up with to verify information quickly. Do you want to hear it?
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay. So let's say you're scrolling through your feed, maybe you're on Facebook and you're scrolling
(36:45):
down your feed or you're on Instagram and you're going through your stories feed and you see
the video that's shared. Okay. When somebody shares a piece of content, some of the context is
missing right away, like the caption either gets put below or the caption is hidden and all that
they're sharing is the visual. And so click number one is to click to view the entire post that
(37:08):
you're looking at. Okay. So you click to see the post and read the caption. Okay. That might take
30 seconds. Okay. You're reading the whole post. Click number two is to see the profile of the person
who published this piece of content. So now all you have to do is click on the name or the profile
photo. That's the second click. And now you're on that profile. And there you can look and see
(37:32):
what the bio says. You can scroll through the other content they're posting to see, okay, is this
type of content stuff that I agree with? Do I think it looks legitimate? What other types of
things are they posting about? And then click number three, only the smartest people are going
to do click number three. Okay. We're only at about 45 seconds of effort here, but the smartest
(37:55):
people will do click number three. You who wrote dinosaurs to school got to be among the smartest.
I would like to think so. We'll see. Click number three is looking at the about info on a profile.
In the book, we have diagrams that show exactly how to get there on Instagram. There's like three
(38:16):
dots at the top of a profile. And you can click that and see about this account. And that opens up
and shows you the date that that profile was created. It also shows you the country of origin
for that profile. And it shows you any former usernames like has this profile ever been called
(38:38):
something else before. And those are your three clicks. That's it. And all you really have to do
is before you share whatever it is that you saw or even before you let yourself feel really big
emotions about what you've seen, you do those three clicks. It's going to take you about 60
seconds. And then you can decide whether you want to invest your emotions and or amplify that content
(39:00):
by sharing it or engaging with it as well. Yeah. And it doesn't take a lot of time. I guess my,
I hope people would do that. But I mean, I just know in this like
world, I hope people will do that. But I know it's so easy to hit that share button right away
because you're you're fired up. But I like the point of just like taking a minute to be like,
(39:22):
this doesn't have to have control over me. I don't have to get fired up about this. Like maybe,
yeah, maybe take a few seconds before. Well, yeah, I mean, it and it's out of context possibly.
So exactly. I mean, I love the idea of just kind of like sitting on it for a few seconds and being
like, is this something like, is this something I even want to like take in? Is, you know,
(39:42):
does that make sense? Yeah. So if you can see like the tagline of this book being slowing the spread
of misinformation and propaganda, that's what this three click method allows us to do.
And I honestly think that if 40%, God, even if 15, 20% of the people on social media used the
three click method, that the rate at which misinformation would spread would decrease
(40:06):
so substantially. If you just spent that few seconds to decide if it's worth investing your
emotions into, if it's worth amplifying that message, if you trust that creator enough to
amplify that message. And I don't care exactly what the message is, I just want you to be intentional
about whether or not you want to share that, or are you being coerced to share that by the factors
(40:31):
in the content as well as the factors in the platform that make it so easy to share without
checking? Right. I love that because it covers all the bases because misinformation can come from
any side and it is, you know, it doesn't, it's not political. I've seen misinformation on all
sides and thankfully Morgan Freeman is still alive as far as I know. Thank goodness.
(40:52):
Yeah, I was like, oh, that kind of bummed out. But if my brother would have done that and just
checked on it, you know, we wouldn't have had that misinformation being spread even if it was just in
our little house area. So I appreciate the fact that you have that as a part of your business,
like having, you know, you're helping people amplify their message, which is a good one,
(41:15):
I'm assuming you're not helping anybody that's got a horrible product. But at the same time,
you're teaching us all how to just kind of like take a pause before you share something because
that share is powerful. Yeah. And if we're bringing this all the way back to like small businesses
and business ownership and entrepreneurship, one of the biggest pieces of advice that I think I would
(41:37):
give to entrepreneurs is to ensure that your brand has some sort of soul and be willing to invest in
it. You know, I've, I have, I spent $20,000 last year to get this book made and published. And
that doesn't include the salary time that Adrienne and I spent working on the book as well. And the
(42:00):
time we spent to go on a little writing retreat, you know, like I was willing to put a significant
amount of investment into something that means something to my heart and my soul. And if I don't
do that, then my work is just work. And I could go work for somebody else at any time. But instead of
that, I entwine my heart into my purpose and the work that I do. And that's the only way that I
(42:27):
survive being an entrepreneur for as long as I have been and going through everything that it takes.
Right. Being mission driven is everything. And I think that's a good place to kind of leave it
for now. I want you to let people know where they can find you if they're looking for your services
or want to reach out because it truly is a valuable service for small businesses. Where can people
(42:51):
find you? Thank you. My profiles personally, if you look up Lacey J. Fott on any social media,
that's where you'll find me. My business is Sprye, but our handles are ThinkSprye everywhere on social
media. And our domain name is ThinkSprye.com. And then if you are looking for this book at all,
(43:11):
you can DM me on any of my social media channels, but it's also available on Amazon. So if you look
up down the rabbit hole book, and if you struggle to find it, you can add Lacey J. onto there as well.
And this is what it looks like. It's got a one thing we didn't mention is it's Alice in Wonderland
themed down the rabbit hole. And so each section has a little bit of a Alice in Wonderland allegory
(43:37):
to it to make it really nice and approachable for people too. So very cool. Well, thanks for all
you do, Lacey. It's been an absolute pleasure talking with you today. And good luck to you in
the future. It's a great service that you provide. Thank you, Doug. And thank you for having me on.
I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you. And we'll see you next time. Okay.
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