Send us your Questions for Jeremiah and Dan
Discover the secrets of powerful vacuum technology with industry veteran Dave Krendl. With over 40 years of experience, Dave sheds light on the evolution of vacuums, revealing how advancements have enabled these machines to tackle even the hottest climates. Our conversation uncovers essential safety features like vac savers and safety output elbows, designed to protect both operators and environments from the incredible force these machines can exert. Learn how these innovations are transforming insulation removal and other applications, ensuring safety and efficiency in both residential and commercial settings.
Dave takes us on a fascinating journey through the engineering marvels behind high-speed vacuums, sharing compelling stories that highlight the need for rigorous safety measures. From rat bones being shot through the air to the importance of donning face shields and hearing protection, we delve into the meticulous engineering and materials, such as AR-500 steel, that make these machines safe and durable. With safety mechanisms like limit switches and safety flappers, Dave underscores the critical importance of designing vacuums that balance immense power with reliable safety.
We then shift focus to practical tips for operating large vacuum equipment safely and efficiently. Dave offers anecdotes and insights into best practices, such as maintaining a safe distance, ensuring proper ventilation, and wearing appropriate personal protective equipment. The episode also touches on the critical role of maintenance, emphasizing the need for regular equipment checks and the proper handling of collection bags. Whether you're dealing with insulation, restoration after natural disasters, or other specialized tasks, these insights provide a valuable guide to maximizing both the safety and efficiency of vacuum equipment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dan (00:00):
uh, so dave, I guess jumping right into it.
If you could go ahead andintroduce yourself, tell us a
little bit about what you'redoing, how you got started in
all of this, and uh, yeah, takeit away okay, uh, thanks for the
invite and I'm glad to be ableto help uh improve some safety
out there with these vacuumswe're talking about today.
Dave Krendl (00:21):
But yes, my name is is Dave Krendl.
I've been in the industry alittle over 40 years, kind of
dating myself there a little bit.
I spent 10 years as anindustrial arts teacher in a
high school in Columbus, ohio,before I came back in my
father's business, the CrandallMachine Company, and I ran the
(00:41):
company and designed theirequipment for about 18 years.
And I ran the company anddesigned their equipment for
about 18 years before I kind ofwent out on my own back in 2002.
So we've been cool machines,we've been at it for about a
little over 20 years now and oneof our fortes is we have
several thousand machines in thefield.
We probably got severalthousand vacuums out there in
(01:02):
the field right now, and so myforte has been the kind of the
design person to help move thesedesigns forward.
Uh, we manufacture here at coolmachines.
Um, in the last 20 we makeequipment, uh, mostly dedicated
to the insulation blowing market.
But we have some equipment inuh in the movie industry for
(01:22):
special effects making snow.
We have some equipment in theaerospace industry that blows
ceramic fibers into a recipemixture for heat shields.
We are pretty big in designingequipment that puts fiber into
asphalt roads and we've kind ofgot a little bit into making
(01:46):
some equipment for the oil spillbusiness.
So anything fiber we've beendoing for quite a many years, um
so.
So that's kind of my background, um, over the last 40 years of
this uh running and designingequipment in this field a little
bit, since jeremiah doesn'thave his little dog clicker to
keep me in line.
Dan (02:05):
Uh, so when we're looking at this, we want to look at, you
know, safety and all thedifferent factors that go into
using these vacuums.
And we can even get into theseblow-in machines a little bit,
because we're going to have alot of people listening that
cross over into that field.
All you know of doing both theremovals and the reinstalls,
whether it be be with foam orblow in or any other inferior
(02:25):
product to foam that they wantto talk about.
Not that we're biased over hereor anything, but you know some
of the things I think that areapparent to touch on with this,
of course, is the high velocitycoming out.
The back end of those vacuumshas created a lot of issues for
people that aren't doing thingsproperly.
(02:46):
We get into the first thingwe're doing climbing into these
attics and stuff.
Where it's used for a lot isconfined space entry, which
we've hit that on a few previousepisodes also, so we don't need
to talk about that a lot.
You know there's air qualityissues, there's maneuverability
issues, going through all thisstuff, but let's just start on
(03:09):
the equipment side of safety andjust get to the very basics, if
you would, dave, and let usknow, like where we should start
and where people should avoidand what equipment they ought to
have to keep it safe.
Dave Krendl (03:22):
Okay, well, one thing let me just preface the
discussion on.
We've seen a movement over thelast 12, 15 years in vacuums,
going towards larger and biggervacuums.
We started out with some evensmall, little six horse units
and they keep growing bigger andbigger over the years because
of the heat issue and the safetyissue in the attic.
(03:44):
So you're down in Arizona orTexas or down in Florida, you
know it's 150, 160 degrees in anattic and typically about an
hour of that is about all youwant to take up there in the
attic like that, and then mostcompanies like to get in and out
of there in an hour.
Ok, on an average, the smallerhome.
But so right now we've expandedthe realm up into the 37 horse,
(04:08):
soon to be 40 horse vacuums, 25horse diesel.
These are all truck mounts.
They run a single hose up withtwo hoses in the attic with two
people up there.
So that's kind of where themarket's going right now and
that's created a lot of otherissues.
And when it comes to safety,because these vacuums are so
powerful right now that they cansuck up golf balls, I mean some
(04:34):
pretty large projectiles thatcan get into that system and it
can be fairly dangerous if youdon't have the right equipment
equipment.
So we've we've basically have afive point safety procedure
design that we try toincorporate in in the, in the
design of the vacuums and theaccessories that make it more
(04:54):
safe.
Okay, so the first thing thatwe encourage is a vac saver on
the front end of your vacuum,and what that vac saver is is a
box that either mounts on thevacuum chamber or it sits out in
front and it's got a deflectorsystem in it.
So as your fiber goes throughfrom the attic with all the
garbage you're going to see,including tools and Christmas
(05:17):
tree ornaments and all that,because you can't see that that
those objects in that fiber pile, so as they're sucking that
stuff up, when the objects hitthe deflector plate, it bounces
it out of the airstream and thefiber continues through the box
separation into your vacuum.
So now we're getting rid of 90%or 95% of all the dangerous
(05:38):
projectiles that can comethrough there.
On the output side, we offer andhighly recommend using a safety
output elbow, and what thatsafety output elbow is is it's a
90 degree turn that points itdown towards the ground as the
flow comes out.
There is a two or three inchsection beyond the 90 degree
(06:01):
curve that we call it acatcher's mitt.
That product fills up in thatchamber or that deadhead area
and it forms a cushion like.
So any little screw or littlething that may pop through it
softens it down and slows thevelocity down coming out into
the hose in the bag.
Because I've seen it so manytimes if you go a direct hose
(06:23):
off the exhaust of that chamberand you get just the littlest
nail or a screw or something,it'll shoot right through that
hose and possibly hurt somebodyand or cause some damage to a
vehicle next door to it orwhatever.
So we want to make sure thatwe're putting on the intake and
the exhaust Safety mechanismsare going to mitigate that high
(06:46):
velocity projectile goingthrough the vacuum.
Dan (06:49):
Dave, while we're talking about velocity, just to give
everybody perspective, what kindof velocity do you see coming
out of the back of those vacuums?
Are we?
You know?
Well, let's talk about.
I don't know.
Their diesel is a beast, theirdiesel is a badass is what they
are.
Jeremiah (07:04):
Yeah, that diesel is man.
Dave Krendl (07:06):
I have seen them throw things through the hose
and stick into the side of a cardoor.
Yeah, I saw that.
Jeremiah (07:12):
I saw a rat bone whiz by me and stick into a car door
one time myself.
Into a metal car door, Into ametal car door yeah, Whiz by me,
I was standing.
I started hearing them so Istood in front of the helper and
I got.
You know I'm wearing thecarhartt jacket.
Dan (07:30):
thankfully I got hit and I watched one hit the car door and
just go right in dang.
Now we know why.
He's in the special effects inthe movie industry thing.
There you go.
They're doing cool stuff likethat, yeah, awesome well, yeah,
so a hand or something in theway is shredded.
Dave Krendl (07:41):
That's not good, yeah well, yeah, you know, when
we back up a little bit here andnot talking just about the
vacuum design accessories, wealways recommend uh, wearing, if
you're the person on the groundaround the vacuum, you should
be wearing a face shield andhearing protection.
Okay, there's not that muchdust to worry about, but, uh,
like you do in the attic, whenyou're up there, but on the
(08:03):
ground, you should have a faceshield on and hearing protection
, because, again, it's the beltand suspenders approach.
We can do what we can on thedesign and accessories, but we
also need, on the other hand, aperson to have something in
place in case there's, as a fail, safe mechanism.
Okay, yeah, so, so, uh, so, um,let me let me go back and
(08:26):
address about the speed.
Okay, velocity.
I can tell you that the tipspeed of these vacuums, on these
larger blades, is about 250miles an hour, okay, so.
So, when you were turning that,so many inches per second going
out of there, I have to assumethat those blades turning a tip
(08:48):
speed like that are going tothrow something out there at 200
mile an hour plus, right, soit's nothing to be fooling
around with, so, and what I'lldo is I'll move on to.
Okay, we talked about the vacsaver on the front end.
What I'll do is I'll move on to.
Okay, we talked about the vacsaver on the front end.
We talked about the uh, the um,uh output safety elbow that
(09:09):
directs both directs the productdownward, so it's not going to
hit anything, plus slows it down, and then um, uh, in addition
to that um, we put a um theconstruction of the vacuums that
we build now I don't know aboutthe other suppliers out there
vacuums, but we use AR-500 steel.
(09:31):
Now if you're familiar, ifyou're a gun guy, you're on a
shooting range, that armorplating you're shooting at.
That dings every time.
That's AR-500 steel.
So it's very hard, very hard topenetrate through.
So our, our, our band aroundthe chamber where the objects
can pop through or when it wearsthrough.
(09:51):
On the regular units we use aquarter inch thick AR 500 steel.
On the bigger units the 27horse, the 37, the 25 diesel we
use a double band there of halfinch AR 500 steel because if
anything flies loose anywhere,we want it not to be able to
penetrate out the radius of thatchamber, okay, so so that's the
(10:16):
second thing, or the thirdthing that we have in our five
point safety mechanism is thatthe construction is a very hard
abrasion resistant steel and inthe construction process,
especially on our blades and ourlarger blades 23 horse and
larger we use an ar 500 on thatalso, but we also use a gusseted
(10:37):
blade.
So we come in behind that bladeand we weld support behind it
so that it's structured andwelded secure enough that a
blade can't break loose when ithits an object.
They're pretty durable the waythose blades are made.
So the construction itself ofthe blade and the chamber are
important in the safety.
As we move forward here.
(10:58):
Any questions as we move onthere.
Dan (11:03):
No, yeah, I'm like it's cool to know that guys are out
there putting that kind ofengineering into these fans,
because so many people are justoh crap, and the thing just
started up.
Let's go, let's get our buttsin there and get going.
Dave Krendl (11:16):
Not all of them.
This is a self-promotion thinga little bit, but we don't.
We want to be able to sleep atnight and not worry about it.
Dan (11:23):
Exactly.
Dave Krendl (11:25):
But not all of them do it.
But I would say that anyonewho's looking to get a vacuum,
that's a very important aspectto the construction of that
vacuum.
Ok, the other things that arepretty standard in the industry
that we deal with we put both asafety flapper on the intake so
that when they're turning it onit automatic, with no hoses and
(11:46):
automatically, the flapper shuts.
But that's that's kind of afrilly thing what we really put
on there to make it effective aswe put limit switches on the
intake and the exhaust.
I don't know how many timesI've been out in the field and
the guys open up that flapperwhen they got on and say let see
how strong that is, and theyhold their hand in front of the
(12:07):
tube.
You know I'm great, yeah, anddumb and dumber and uh.
So the way we've been doing thislast several years now is the
hose has to come up against thelimit switch and or the, or the
um, it's like a little flapper,uh, it has to depress that
before allow the engine to start.
(12:28):
And the same thing goes on theexhaust, because if you turn
that on and you don't haveanything on the other end of
that tube and something getssucked in there by accident.
It's flying out at a couplehundred mile an hour.
So so we put a safety limitswitch on the exhaust also.
It can be another thing thatcan go wrong, but we'd rather
have it go wrong and have totroubleshoot it in the field
(12:48):
than have people playing aroundwhen running these things
without without having any hoseson the intake and output right
and getting a finger sucked intothat thing and uh, it's
happened.
You know there's been peoplethat have lost a finger, a digit
, a little finger because it gotpulled in and they're lucky,
that's all they lost.
But, like I said, we are tryingto look at this and say what
(13:09):
can we do within regular meansto make this as safe as we can?
And the last thing that we needto have a discussion on and
deal with is static electricity.
Dan (13:24):
Oh yeah, no, my people love to talk about that.
Dave Krendl (13:26):
Yeah, grounding out on an aluminum ladder two
stories up.
I've had guys tell me in theattic when they're using these
hoses sometimes if they havesteel-toed shoes on, the spark
will jump from the hose downthere by their feet under their
steel-toed shoe.
Jeremiah (13:47):
All right, oh yeah, I've had that happen.
I've had that happen.
Dave Krendl (13:51):
Yeah, you can imagine they're jumping around a
little bit, yeah, just a littlebit.
Yeah, they're testing thedrywall out to see if it's going
to hold.
But in any event, in thatregards, certain times of the
year when the air is dry,there's not a lot of moisture in
the air the static is worse.
All the fibers cellulosefiberglass, rock wool they all
(14:23):
create some sort of static inthe right atmospheric conditions
.
And what a lot of thecontractors do to mitigate that,
if that's, that's an issue.
Now some people tell me theynever had a problem.
You know other people.
It's a real problem.
But, um, what's been done overthe years is they will take the
steel connectors between thehoses and they'll run a wire and
ground each one back to thevacuum.
Then they'll run a ground wirefrom the vacuum because, keep in
(14:43):
mind, the vacuum itself issitting up on the ground, on
rubber tires or rubber wheels,so it's not on the ground.
So what they'll do is run aground wire from there to either
a water spigot on the house,which is usually grounded, or
they'll take just a long shankscrewdriver and connect the wire
onto that and stick it in theground, or crack in the concrete
(15:05):
.
They'll stick it down as deepas they can get it, and that
usually will drain off all thestatic.
Now when you're spraying orblowing fibers with an
insulation machine, it's thesame thing.
You can get static, but withsome of the fibers, because of
the dust, they'll use a wettingsystem.
So anytime you put moisture inthe product a little bit, you
(15:25):
don't have a static issue so thebut we'll just kind of break
this up into components, I guess, of the job.
Dan (15:33):
But so we have somebody on the ground and I I'm guessing
you recommend having somebodythere monitoring the vacuum all
the time, not, oh, just ditch itand everybody hop up in the
attic.
But, ppe and task wise, what doyou tell the people on the
ground to wear and to watch forand where to be and what to do
(15:53):
with this vacuum?
Why they're just on the groundas bags are filling and stuff.
Dave Krendl (15:58):
Okay, good question .
And let me just say this, otherthan what I mentioned on the
face shield and hearingprotection, knowing where to
stand and where to be isimportant, ok, so obviously you
know when you're handling a gunyou're not pointing it around
your head, ok, right, yeah, yougot to remember that the the end
(16:22):
of the gun or the end of thevacuum exhaust is a dangerous
place to be.
So so want.
We don't necessarily want tohang around out there and and
you don't need to be there youcan be back watching the vacuum
work and be ready to change thebags, because on these big
vacuums, every five to 10minutes they're changing a bag.
We have a disc diverter thatallows you to fill a bag and as
soon as that bag's full, youjust channel to the next bag and
change bags.
(16:42):
You're never shutting down, but, with that said, most of the
people that are filling thesebags don't need to be in and
around the bag at all.
Normally we recommend having adischarge hose of about 15 to 25
feet away from the vacuum.
That will go either into a dumptrailer or into some sort of
(17:04):
trailer, or it can go into adumpster, but you don't need to
be around that watching thatarea of the, of the, of the, of
the process.
Yeah, so that's all the PPE.
I don't know that we needsteel-toed shoes down there, but
it'd probably be nice becauseyou don't know when you're going
to drop something on your feetwhen you're dealing with
(17:24):
equipment that weighs a couplehundred pounds.
Right, exactly, we've alwaysused basic gloves, ones or
whatever.
They can usually protect yourhands because, again, we're
dealing with hose clamps and onsome of our vacuum hoses there's
a wire that goes through themand it's sticking out, sometimes
(17:47):
an inch or so, and it canimpale your hand a little bit.
So, yeah, wearing a pair ofleather gloves would certainly
be recommended.
It probably might help mitigateany static issues too be
recommended.
Dan (18:01):
It probably might help mitigate any static issues too.
Jeremiah, what's the worstplace?
You've seen anybody set up avacuum before?
Because we've got carbonmonoxide issues, we've got heat
issues, we've got all kinds ofstuff.
You had to have run intosomething that made you want to
slap people across the head well, I it was.
Jeremiah (18:13):
It was actually one of one of dave's machines.
When I first took a job not toolong ago.
You know I had these guys.
You know I took a job as CEOwith a company to clean it up
and stuff.
And Dan, you're aware who thiscompany is, but Dave, I'll leave
him nameless.
But you know I go on this rigand it's a box truck, dave, and
the box truck is full ofinsulation bags and what's
(18:35):
leaning against all theinsulation bags running with no
ventilation, kind of midway inthe truck, one of your no
ventilation, no anything, justrunning balls to the wall Excuse
(18:57):
my language, yes, to me, that's, you know.
And there's a fire on thattruck because they didn't listen
.
So you guys can't have this.
You got to move it out of here,you got to get it, you know,
you got to have ventilation.
It's a gas engine, you know, ina closed space and they didn't
listen so it caught theinsulation banks on fire yeah,
(19:18):
two issues.
Dave Krendl (19:19):
I can see it's a problem and let me kind of
expound on that is that most ofour vacuums, up to including our
27 horse, are all portable onwheels, so they should always be
really taken out of the vehicleand run outside.
Jeremiah (19:35):
It's not a lot to ask, dave.
When the machines move veryeasily and when you have three
to four got grown men on site,it's not impossible to do the
right thing.
Dan (19:44):
It's really nice when the tires are still left on the
vacuum.
Jeremiah (19:48):
That was another thing .
One had no tires and that wastheir excuse.
I'm like, well, there's four ofyou and it's not that heavy.
Pick up the vacuum and put itwhere it should be.
Yeah, it's.
That's honestly like I said.
Dave Krendl (20:02):
I'll say this the mufflers get pretty hot and if
you're stacking bags aroundthese things and or even if you
put it away too early, like well, let's say, we're done running
after three or four hours, thatsucker's hot.
I would do all my uh, you know,clean up and all the everything
first while that thing'ssitting down, cooling and that
(20:22):
would be the last thing I put inmy vehicle and absolutely make
sure that there's nothing thatcan fall down on the muffler,
because it can.
Jeremiah (20:30):
Yeah, exactly yeah it sounds like common sense.
But once again, you know, dan,and I said this a few times you
know common sense is not thatcommon and no matter what you
put on the machine, you guys doa great job with warning labels.
Don't put your hand here.
This is going to be hot.
Even though it's a muffler,there's still a label and but
you still go on these job sitesand find these guys like doing
(20:53):
these things.
It's like it's.
You can't fix a few things, butI like, dave, I think you said
you guys do as good as you cando with the stuff when mornings
and the guys just need to listenand read once in a while more
than anything else.
Like this piece of equipment isan engine with an impeller on it
like I don't.
You know it's.
It's crazy what it does and howit works, what you guys design
(21:17):
and the things it does.
But it's in, it's a heavyequipment does, and how it works
, what you guys design and thethings it does.
But it's a heavy equipmentthese guys need to respect.
Sometimes they don't.
They go to the job site, turnit on and you know they don't
understand what they're usingSometimes.
I think that's the biggest deal.
Dave Krendl (21:29):
You know, on some of our larger vacuums we they're
not portable anymore, they'reactually mounted on the back of
the truck.
But when we do install rigshere we will plumb the exhaust
down under the truck.
So it's not in the box and butwe still.
And then a lot of the guys endup putting ventilator fans on
(21:52):
the front of their vehicles oron the side of vehicles to help
put some ventilation in there.
Because you know, again ahundred degree ambient down in
Phoenix Arizona it gets hot inthat truck when you got a big, a
big rig running in there.
Jeremiah (22:06):
So they were melting, they were melting belt, yeah,
yeah.
Dave Krendl (22:14):
And let me say we're always looking for
suggestions on making thingssafer.
I mean, if someone has an ideaout there and whoever your
listeners are out there want tohave an idea and they don't mind
passing it on to us.
We certainly are very receptiveto upgrading and changing
things.
Our poor customers, when theybuy a new piece of equipment,
(22:34):
it's probably different than itwas a year ago.
You know and learn from ourcustomers.
Jeremiah (22:41):
Well, you got to make upgrades and updates right To
improve.
Dave Krendl (22:45):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah , we, we have to think of
another reason to charge youmore money.
Yeah, just kidding.
Dan (22:55):
Okay, so let's move to the to the other end.
We've talked about the vacuumand the output side, and to fill
in bags, let's go to thesuction side.
When guys are up, uh, in anattic or whatever space, they
are actually doing a removal, um, let's go ppe.
What should they have on?
You know we've already talked alittle bit about confined space
(23:16):
, air quality issues up there,any other things like that and
any other cool tips or tricksyou've seen, dave, that will
help somebody get a job donefaster, because an efficient job
is a safer job I agree.
Dave Krendl (23:28):
Um, well, first of all, absolutely have a breathing
protection on.
I can't remember, it's a nNIOSH 95 or something like that
rated mask and and again.
And when it gets hot up there150 degrees, you know you're
you're sweating and everythinglike that, but you definitely
(23:50):
have to have a mask on.
A lot of the guys sometimeswill wear the cotton suits you
know, just to keep the any ofthe itchy stuff off of them.
Up in the attic when you do thejob is important.
We see a lot of the contractorsnow.
Even though these things make alittle bit of noise, they try
to get on the job site earlyenough, around 7.38, if the
neighbors aren't complaining,get that job done before 10 or
(24:12):
11 in the morning.
Or sometimes guys will kind ofdo their other work during the
day and come back at nightaround 7 or eight.
If they can do it until 10 andit is, try to time it so they're
not hitting the peak time ofthe day when the sun's the
hottest.
Okay, um, so, um, uh, breathingmasks, uh, probably goggles,
(24:34):
because that stuff can be youreyes.
The vacuums that we have, thecertain size ones on up, will
take bats.
So we make different devicesthat hold the hose for you so
you're hands-free holding thebats like a taco and feeding
them down the hose.
So there's a lot of that goingon.
(24:54):
The vacuums can takewater-damaged material.
We sell a lot of these to thecontractors down in Florida
right after these hurricanes andthey blow these roofs off.
So you know they like, sothey're pretty.
You know we sell a lot of themto the restoration companies.
You know, like SurfPro.
So pest control companies aregetting these things.
(25:14):
The pest control companies aregetting these things.
When you talk about the foamcontractors, you know just about
every foam contractor I knowhas a blowing machine and a
vacuum.
You know and speaking of that,we got some foam contractors
that when they cut off the bigchunks or whatever no, I'm sorry
(25:35):
, not the big chunks, but whenthey scarify the surface into
the smaller pieces, they'll takea six or eight inch hose in
there and suck up all that stuffinto a bag.
Dan (25:42):
You know, get rid of it done it like it it's a heck of a
lot better to broom.
Dave Krendl (25:46):
I'm scared as hell of those brooms, yeah uh, the
big chunks you cut with theblades, uh, they're a little bit
more of a challenge.
But uh, we have a.
They'll either run in therewith a hose, um, or they'll go
in there with an electric vacuum.
So we have we make a line ofelectric vacuums or run off a
12K generator.
So you get a generator out inyour truck or trailer, you can
(26:09):
run the electric vacuums in thehouse where you're foaming, and
we have a three foot vacuumchute that goes on the front of
the chamber and you flip the lidup and you just sweep all your
pieces to to the chute and itjust sucks them up and throws
them outside in the back.
Dan (26:22):
Nice, nice.
Now my crew will have somethingelse they want me to spend
money on yeah, there you go.
Yeah, I might my guys leaves inher yard yeah, um, so you know
you get up in those attics.
Of course the guys are climbingaround wires and you know
(26:44):
piping and duct work andeverything else like that, nails
, um, god dang, nail staples,all kinds of stuff that'll pop
up in there, and so you know Imake sure they're wearing at
least heavy jeans, uh, when theyclimb up in there.
No, no shorts.
You know you're not getting upthere in your Crocs, even though
Crocs are cool.
I don't care what everybodyelse says, crocs are cool.
Dave Krendl (27:07):
But, yeah, gloves, suits, masks, eyewear pretty
heavy duty shoes, you know,because if you step on a nail
you don't want you to, you wantto at least try to bend the nail
a little bit so it doesn't gothrough the foot all I mean
through the shoe.
You know, but you can't.
I wouldn't recommend tennisshoes, you know, if you got a
decent work shoe.
(27:28):
You know they can be low topsor whatever, but they make some
pretty durable work shoes outthere that might help mitigate
the danger of stepping on a nailup there or something Sure.
Dan (27:43):
Well, it's the coolest accessory You've seen.
Dave Krendl (27:45):
Somebody throw on the end of a hose to help pick
stuff up uh, well, first of all,uh, we do have vacuum tubes,
but they're not used very oftenbecause they're very uh,
limiting on your maneuverability.
In the attic, um, for the wallspray industry, we sell these
four foot tubes that they vacuumoff the floor and they don't
(28:05):
have to bend over to do it inthe house, pick up the recycle.
But in an attic, we've sold anumber of the two foot tubes
just to give them a little bitof a rigidity and a handle to
hang on to the hose.
But a lot of guys don't evenhave anything on the end of the
hose, they're just moving itaround.
I will tell you one thing thatthey do is they will take the
hose and they'll cut a concaveend to it so that when it's
(28:27):
sucking so hard, it doesn't keepplanting itself on the drywall,
it brings in air from the side,doesn't keep planting itself on
the drywall, you know it bringsin air from the side.
So, so, uh, but no, I mean, uh,the vacuum tubes are the
predominant thing that people douse at times.
Um, I've never seen any othertypes of.
I don't know if you havesomething to add to that oh yeah
(28:49):
, I don't know.
Dan (28:50):
Just every once in a while you run across somebody that
made some homemade gadget.
That's like God dang, that's amiracle.
Jeremiah (28:56):
I used to duct tape room handles to the end so I
could reach it back into theback of the eaves.
Because, he's right, I had thetube too.
I always use that tube andyou're right, I tried to get
some newer guys to use it andthey did not want to use that
tube, dave.
I loved it in certainapplications but I found the
thing that the guys, like I said, easy is usually what they use
and I would show some guys thatduct tape.
(29:17):
You know broomstick to the endof the hose and more guys than I
like to admit that's the waythey went, even though they had
the other piece of equipment.
You know that tube that couldget down in there.
That is really well the one youguys sell, but broomstick on
the end of a hose man.
Dave Krendl (29:33):
What I see most often is they'll take that broom
handle and they'll let the hosehang out eight inches to a foot
beyond the broom handle andthey'll tape it maybe once or
twice close towards the endbecause they want to be able to
have that hose bend short of thebroom handle so it's laying
flat across the attic.
So I've seen some guys preferto put the broom handle several
(29:57):
inches beyond the hose.
You know, because it was alwayssticking to the drywall when it
was sucking out.
But like I said, if you prepthe end of that hose with a
concave surface on it where itcan't stick to the, to the attic
drywall, OK, that's a greatidea.
stick to the to the atticdrywall.
Okay, yeah, that's a great idea.
(30:17):
But I've seen some guys usethose, uh, short extension paint
roller sticks and the otherones that are aluminum.
They'll take a four footer, youknow, and they will um tape it
onto the end of the of the paint.
They're telescoping so you canadjust them to whatever length
you want them, but, um, you know, that might give you a little
more flexibility if you need toextend it up to eight feet along
(30:39):
and tighten it down and getback further than what a broom
handle will do.
Sure.
Dan (30:46):
Yeah, jeremiah, what have you seen Other than the broom?
Jeremiah (30:52):
Oh, other than the broom.
I mean, honestly, he's right,Like they they don't.
That's what I see most.
He's right.
Most guys don't put anything onthere.
They're climbing back there andthey're throwing that hose like
it's a whip trying to get itwhere they want it.
So it's, it's like technique andyou know they've.
I guess more times than not,guys in their heads think you
know.
Anything else you got to put onthat hose is going to add more
(31:12):
complications to an alreadycomplicated situation.
You know, when you're in aretrofit trying to get that
attic clean the right way it'syou're trying to get in and get
out.
Most guys aren't going to takeanother piece of equipment, so
it's like your hands are themost simplest thing they can use
, like the broomstick or thepaint roller, something they
have that you know they cancarry with them if they lose it
(31:33):
or they forget it or it's stuckin the attic somewhere.
It's not a big deal, right?
Your boss isn't going to getmad if you leave a $4 paint
roller up there or a broomstickthat was broken anyway.
So you know that's the otherthing too.
A lot of times guys will leavethings up in those attics and
yeah, Especially the wirelessremotes.
Oh yeah, I stopped buying them,dave, like after a couple.
(31:55):
You're like all right guys,like if you don't care enough to
understand how nice this thingis, well, that's why we started
putting beepers on them.
Dave Krendl (32:03):
If you don't press a button within an hour, if you
have enough patience to staythere, they start beeping up
there.
Yeah.
Dan (32:09):
But let me add something the homeowners love it when a
guy leaves one of those behind.
Dave Krendl (32:14):
oh, it sounds like they're, uh, they're, they're
smoke alarm batteries dead sothat's how you screw with your
buddies.
Dan (32:22):
Now just throw one of those up in an attic and let them
worry about their smokedetectors for a week yeah, if
you want to throw 500 up there.
Dave Krendl (32:32):
Uh, let me, let me talk about uh, do you guys get
into doing bats very much?
Dan (32:37):
a little bit here and there .
I mean, like I said, we're wegear this podcast.
We kind of talk about the sprayfoam industry a lot, because
that's where jeremiah and I arereally based out of, but it's
supposed to be all encompassinganybody and everybody.
Dave Krendl (32:50):
So yeah, go ahead well, let me just say this about
the bats thing, because thesevacuums, again, the larger ones,
that will pull a full, uh batdown the hose, you know, 150
feet back to the truck.
Um, these things get a littleviolent on you when they're
going through the house andthrough around doors and door
and window frames.
So what we always recommend is,if you're going to do many of
(33:12):
the bats well, first of first ofall, if I'm holding the hose in
the attic and I'm trying tofeed a bat down there, you can't
do it because as soon as thatstarts grabbing it, the hose
recoils and pulls out of yourhand or your arm.
So that's why we make thesebrackets that you clamp the hose
to.
Then you put the double-headednail a couple of them, up on the
rafter to hold the hose for youwhile you're feeding it.
(33:34):
But that said, um, a lot of thecontractors are either taking
throw rugs or or, um, any waythey can wrap that hose around a
door frame or a window.
Um, they're wrapping it andthen they're taking a sandbag or
some weight and they'reweighting it down.
Because what'll happen?
That that hose will sometimesgyrate three or four feet in the
air and really do some damageto door frames and stuff.
(33:58):
So if you're doing a lot ofbats, secure the hoses down to
something every I don't know 15,20 feet.
Try to secure it, because theygo wild on you.
Jeremiah (34:10):
Yeah, they do, that's for sure.
We also used to use those andalso the the cardboard corners
from our pallets of plasticboxes.
We used to save and put on thecorners.
We use that against where thehoses were hitting, cause they
would they jump and they, if youdidn't have that cover on the
corner, you could it definitelywould dent that drywall.
Dave Krendl (34:37):
For sure it's got power.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Now, you know, if I had ahundred horse vacuum, they'd buy
it.
You know it's just.
You know everybody thinksbigger is better and faster.
But again, we, you know you canonly go so big and have to
worry about safety.
That we're talking about todaybecause you're getting on.
You know, something out therethat can do a lot of damage if
something lets go somewhere.
So, yeah, awesome.
Well, dave, do a lot of damageif something lets go somewhere.
Dan (34:55):
Yeah, awesome.
Well, dave, we get to thispoint in the podcast after we
talked about this and we kind oftry to do a call to action for
everybody.
You know, just to, basically,if you could say one thing to
the entire industry that usesyour vacuums to keep people safe
, what would your statement,what would your call to action
mean?
Dave Krendl (35:15):
I would say we want to use two things we want to
always use a vac saver and wealways want to use a safety
output deflector.
Those two things alone willkeep people from getting debris
and shrapnel we'll call it thatin through the system that can
(35:35):
do damage If they just would dothat.
Yeah, we're talking maybe athousand bucks for a vac saver.
We're talking three or $400 foran elbow, but those two items
alone.
People just don't, sometimesdon't want to spend the money on
it.
We're competing with everybodyelse, but we're highly
recommending.
All of our dealers that sellthese for us are pushing the
(35:55):
fact that you should have a vacsaver and a safety elbow on it.
So that's the big thing I cansay about that.
And um, back to Jeremy's pointdon't leave them in the vehicle
and run them.
Dan (36:11):
Jeremiah, what would you add for the call to action on
these?
Jeremiah (36:14):
Jeremiah, what would you add for the call to action
on these?
Just as I always say, dan, youknow, like I said, I've worked
for a spray foam manufacturerfor a long time but I still, you
know, I've been a contractorand did all these things and I
still on job sites.
When we're doing removals andretrofits and installing foam,
it's respect your equipment,just like with the high pressure
systems.
Understand what you're workingwith.
Where are the PPE that'srecommended?
You know, face shielding gloves.
If you're the guy in the in thetruck using the equipment, you
(36:40):
know got.
Like you said, dave, you guysdon't want to spend the money or
don't want to take the time,but when something goes sideways
, everyone's saying hey, whatdid you forget?
Oh, your safety glasses, yourvisor, you didn't have the
equipment.
We're wearing your PPE.
That was required and in a badsituation.
Those are all the things thateveryone's like man should have,
could have, would have.
Well, don't be the guy that hasto say that.
Respect the equipment, wear thePPE, take the time to check the
(37:00):
oil, check your coolants, allthose things that you know make
these pieces of equipment runsmoothly for long periods of
time.
Don't, you know, run it to theend of the world and wonder what
happens when things break oryou throw a rod or crack a block
because you didn't check thesethings.
Once again, take care of yourequipment, it'll take care of
you.
Dave Krendl (37:17):
I'd like to add about taking care of the
equipment for a second.
Yeah, go for it, please do.
Yes, all of these engines,except for our diesel unit, are
air-cooled engines, okay, andthat means they stay cool in hot
temperatures by the air comingacross the cooling fins of that
of the block of the engine andwhat happens is it's just like a
(37:37):
lawnmower gets grass clippingsaround the engine.
You'll bake the engine.
So I see an all well generallywith a contractor once he bakes
his engine after three months ofuse and he finds out what it
costs to replace it.
They're always cleaning theengine after that.
But if I could say anything inadvance every time you use that
(38:00):
vacuum and you get back to theshop, take a high compressed air
air hose and blow off thosecooling fins on those engines,
uh, it'll last you a thousandhours or more.
Otherwise you might get 50hours out of it and you're going
to bake your engine.
The first thing to go is thehead gasket.
But when a contractor can callthem, they say, oh, I won't
start, it doesn't have anycompression, they probably bake
their engine.
So keep them clean every.
Sometimes people say, well,once a month I blow them off.
(38:20):
That's not enough.
Every time you go out there andget back there, blow them off.
It's usually a lot better to doit when you get back to the
shop because they're cooled down.
The fibers want to stick to tothe to the engine more when it's
hot.
So we we want to let her cooldown.
Blow off that engine, good, andyou're good for the next time.
Change the oil frequently onthese things, because in the hot
(38:41):
and dirty environments themanufacturer recommends changing
the oil more often Every 50hours.
Okay, the manual says every 500hours.
Well, that's in a perfectenvironment.
I mean not our manual manualthat brings manual or whatever.
So, yeah, service and takingcare of that.
So what's that?
Jeremiah (39:02):
I said I I don't really see these things ever ran
in a perfect environment.
They're always ran in that.
You're like you said.
You have to take better care ofthem than if what the
manufacturer says right, becausethose are all tested parameters
, but these are pieces ofequipment, rooms, backs of box
trucks.
You know a hundred degreetemperatures, 10 hours a day
running.
You know it's like you have totake more precaution and more
(39:23):
care to make sure they keepgoing.
Dave Krendl (39:25):
You're right, just keep track of it In fact one of
the biggest culprits that we'vetried to get people out of the
habit of doing.
They'd always put their vacuumcollection bags five feet or put
the dip or you put the bagright on the tube of the output
of the vacuum and if that baggets a little leak in it, it's
blowing dust everywhere.
Where does it go?
It sucks it back through theengine and builds up around that
(39:47):
engine.
So we always say keep the bags,collection bags, a dumpster, 20
, 25 feet away from that vacuum,so if you get a leak somewhere
it's not going to affect therunning of that, of that engine.
Dan (39:59):
Yeah, yeah, and I guess you know my side from a guy that
does not do a lot of removals.
Um, you know, shoot, we did ourfirst one of the fall last week
.
But it's have a plan and ifsomebody on that crew is
proficient, have them write theplan for you.
If not, call somebody, getsomebody there, get, yeah, get
(40:22):
something written down.
Get an operating procedure foreverybody on there so that
nobody's in the wrong place atthe wrong time yeah, there
should be.
Dave Krendl (40:31):
In fact, now that you mentioned that, I will put
that on a decal for everybody,for you guys.
Okay, I can put a somethingtogether that has maybe a five
step or seven step procedure tofollow right on the vacuum.
They're in the owner's manuals,but no one, nobody knows where
they're at right now well, thatstarted the fire in the barrel
(40:54):
out front.
Dan (40:54):
That kept us warm in the morning.
Dave Krendl (40:57):
Okay, there you go.
But no, I you know, really,when I think about it, we put
all the decals saying keep thebag away from the thing, keep it
whatever.
But if there was a cheat sheet,so to speak, or a six step plan
that was pretty inclusive inthose six steps that the guys
might read if you got in frontof them, uh, you can say there
(41:18):
it is yeah, no, and again, we'vegot a whole website that we put
all this documentation on sothat everybody has like a single
landing site to go to to getthis, and this would be great to
have on there.
uh, so dave, I guess jumping right into it.
If you could go ahead andintroduce yourself, tell us a
little bit about what you'redoing, how you got started in
all of this, and uh, yeah, takeit away okay, uh, thanks for the
invite and I'm glad to be ableto help uh improve some safety
out there with these vacuumswe're talking about today.
Dave Krendl (00:21):
But yes, my name is is Dave Krendl.
I've been in the industry alittle over 40 years, kind of
dating myself there a little bit.
I spent 10 years as anindustrial arts teacher in a
high school in Columbus, ohio,before I came back in my
father's business, the CrandallMachine Company, and I ran the
(00:41):
company and designed theirequipment for about 18 years.
And I ran the company anddesigned their equipment for
about 18 years before I kind ofwent out on my own back in 2002.
So we've been cool machines,we've been at it for about a
little over 20 years now and oneof our fortes is we have
several thousand machines in thefield.
We probably got severalthousand vacuums out there in
(01:02):
the field right now, and so myforte has been the kind of the
design person to help move thesedesigns forward.
Uh, we manufacture here at coolmachines.
Um, in the last 20 we makeequipment, uh, mostly dedicated
to the insulation blowing market.
But we have some equipment inuh in the movie industry for
(01:22):
special effects making snow.
We have some equipment in theaerospace industry that blows
ceramic fibers into a recipemixture for heat shields.
We are pretty big in designingequipment that puts fiber into
asphalt roads and we've kind ofgot a little bit into making
(01:46):
some equipment for the oil spillbusiness.
So anything fiber we've beendoing for quite a many years, um
so.
So that's kind of my background, um, over the last 40 years of
this uh running and designingequipment in this field a little
bit, since jeremiah doesn'thave his little dog clicker to
keep me in line.
Dan (02:05):
Uh, so when we're looking at this, we want to look at, you
know, safety and all thedifferent factors that go into
using these vacuums.
And we can even get into theseblow-in machines a little bit,
because we're going to have alot of people listening that
cross over into that field.
All you know of doing both theremovals and the reinstalls,
whether it be be with foam orblow in or any other inferior
(02:25):
product to foam that they wantto talk about.
Not that we're biased over hereor anything, but you know some
of the things I think that areapparent to touch on with this,
of course, is the high velocitycoming out.
The back end of those vacuumshas created a lot of issues for
people that aren't doing thingsproperly.
(02:46):
We get into the first thingwe're doing climbing into these
attics and stuff.
Where it's used for a lot isconfined space entry, which
we've hit that on a few previousepisodes also, so we don't need
to talk about that a lot.
You know there's air qualityissues, there's maneuverability
issues, going through all thisstuff, but let's just start on
(03:09):
the equipment side of safety andjust get to the very basics, if
you would, dave, and let usknow, like where we should start
and where people should avoidand what equipment they ought to
have to keep it safe.
Dave Krendl (03:22):
Okay, well, one thing let me just preface the
discussion on.
We've seen a movement over thelast 12, 15 years in vacuums,
going towards larger and biggervacuums.
We started out with some evensmall, little six horse units
and they keep growing bigger andbigger over the years because
of the heat issue and the safetyissue in the attic.
(03:44):
So you're down in Arizona orTexas or down in Florida, you
know it's 150, 160 degrees in anattic and typically about an
hour of that is about all youwant to take up there in the
attic like that, and then mostcompanies like to get in and out
of there in an hour.
Ok, on an average, the smallerhome.
But so right now we've expandedthe realm up into the 37 horse,
(04:08):
soon to be 40 horse vacuums, 25horse diesel.
These are all truck mounts.
They run a single hose up withtwo hoses in the attic with two
people up there.
So that's kind of where themarket's going right now and
that's created a lot of otherissues.
And when it comes to safety,because these vacuums are so
powerful right now that they cansuck up golf balls, I mean some
(04:34):
pretty large projectiles thatcan get into that system and it
can be fairly dangerous if youdon't have the right equipment
equipment.
So we've we've basically have afive point safety procedure
design that we try toincorporate in in the, in the
design of the vacuums and theaccessories that make it more
(04:54):
safe.
Okay, so the first thing thatwe encourage is a vac saver on
the front end of your vacuum,and what that vac saver is is a
box that either mounts on thevacuum chamber or it sits out in
front and it's got a deflectorsystem in it.
So as your fiber goes throughfrom the attic with all the
garbage you're going to see,including tools and Christmas
(05:17):
tree ornaments and all that,because you can't see that that
those objects in that fiber pile, so as they're sucking that
stuff up, when the objects hitthe deflector plate, it bounces
it out of the airstream and thefiber continues through the box
separation into your vacuum.
So now we're getting rid of 90%or 95% of all the dangerous
(05:38):
projectiles that can comethrough there.
On the output side, we offer andhighly recommend using a safety
output elbow, and what thatsafety output elbow is is it's a
90 degree turn that points itdown towards the ground as the
flow comes out.
There is a two or three inchsection beyond the 90 degree
(06:01):
curve that we call it acatcher's mitt.
That product fills up in thatchamber or that deadhead area
and it forms a cushion like.
So any little screw or littlething that may pop through it
softens it down and slows thevelocity down coming out into
the hose in the bag.
Because I've seen it so manytimes if you go a direct hose
(06:23):
off the exhaust of that chamberand you get just the littlest
nail or a screw or something,it'll shoot right through that
hose and possibly hurt somebodyand or cause some damage to a
vehicle next door to it orwhatever.
So we want to make sure thatwe're putting on the intake and
the exhaust Safety mechanismsare going to mitigate that high
(06:46):
velocity projectile goingthrough the vacuum.
Dan (06:49):
Dave, while we're talking about velocity, just to give
everybody perspective, what kindof velocity do you see coming
out of the back of those vacuums?
Are we?
You know?
Well, let's talk about.
I don't know.
Their diesel is a beast, theirdiesel is a badass is what they
are.
Jeremiah (07:04):
Yeah, that diesel is man.
Dave Krendl (07:06):
I have seen them throw things through the hose
and stick into the side of a cardoor.
Yeah, I saw that.
Jeremiah (07:12):
I saw a rat bone whiz by me and stick into a car door
one time myself.
Into a metal car door, Into ametal car door yeah, Whiz by me,
I was standing.
I started hearing them so Istood in front of the helper and
I got.
You know I'm wearing thecarhartt jacket.
Dan (07:30):
thankfully I got hit and I watched one hit the car door and
just go right in dang.
Now we know why.
He's in the special effects inthe movie industry thing.
There you go.
They're doing cool stuff likethat, yeah, awesome well, yeah,
so a hand or something in theway is shredded.
Dave Krendl (07:41):
That's not good, yeah well, yeah, you know, when
we back up a little bit here andnot talking just about the
vacuum design accessories, wealways recommend uh, wearing, if
you're the person on the groundaround the vacuum, you should
be wearing a face shield andhearing protection.
Okay, there's not that muchdust to worry about, but, uh,
like you do in the attic, whenyou're up there, but on the
(08:03):
ground, you should have a faceshield on and hearing protection
, because, again, it's the beltand suspenders approach.
We can do what we can on thedesign and accessories, but we
also need, on the other hand, aperson to have something in
place in case there's, as a fail, safe mechanism.
Okay, yeah, so, so, uh, so, um,let me let me go back and
(08:26):
address about the speed.
Okay, velocity.
I can tell you that the tipspeed of these vacuums, on these
larger blades, is about 250miles an hour, okay, so.
So, when you were turning that,so many inches per second going
out of there, I have to assumethat those blades turning a tip
(08:48):
speed like that are going tothrow something out there at 200
mile an hour plus, right, soit's nothing to be fooling
around with, so, and what I'lldo is I'll move on to.
Okay, we talked about the vacsaver on the front end.
What I'll do is I'll move on to.
Okay, we talked about the vacsaver on the front end.
We talked about the uh, the um,uh output safety elbow that
(09:09):
directs both directs the productdownward, so it's not going to
hit anything, plus slows it down, and then um, uh, in addition
to that um, we put a um theconstruction of the vacuums that
we build now I don't know aboutthe other suppliers out there
vacuums, but we use AR-500 steel.
(09:31):
Now if you're familiar, ifyou're a gun guy, you're on a
shooting range, that armorplating you're shooting at.
That dings every time.
That's AR-500 steel.
So it's very hard, very hard topenetrate through.
So our, our, our band aroundthe chamber where the objects
can pop through or when it wearsthrough.
(09:51):
On the regular units we use aquarter inch thick AR 500 steel.
On the bigger units the 27horse, the 37, the 25 diesel we
use a double band there of halfinch AR 500 steel because if
anything flies loose anywhere,we want it not to be able to
penetrate out the radius of thatchamber, okay, so so that's the
(10:16):
second thing, or the thirdthing that we have in our five
point safety mechanism is thatthe construction is a very hard
abrasion resistant steel and inthe construction process,
especially on our blades and ourlarger blades 23 horse and
larger we use an ar 500 on thatalso, but we also use a gusseted
(10:37):
blade.
So we come in behind that bladeand we weld support behind it
so that it's structured andwelded secure enough that a
blade can't break loose when ithits an object.
They're pretty durable the waythose blades are made.
So the construction itself ofthe blade and the chamber are
important in the safety.
As we move forward here.
(10:58):
Any questions as we move onthere.
Dan (11:03):
No, yeah, I'm like it's cool to know that guys are out
there putting that kind ofengineering into these fans,
because so many people are justoh crap, and the thing just
started up.
Let's go, let's get our buttsin there and get going.
Dave Krendl (11:16):
Not all of them.
This is a self-promotion thinga little bit, but we don't.
We want to be able to sleep atnight and not worry about it.
Dan (11:23):
Exactly.
Dave Krendl (11:25):
But not all of them do it.
But I would say that anyonewho's looking to get a vacuum,
that's a very important aspectto the construction of that
vacuum.
Ok, the other things that arepretty standard in the industry
that we deal with we put both asafety flapper on the intake so
that when they're turning it onit automatic, with no hoses and
(11:46):
automatically, the flapper shuts.
But that's that's kind of afrilly thing what we really put
on there to make it effective aswe put limit switches on the
intake and the exhaust.
I don't know how many timesI've been out in the field and
the guys open up that flapperwhen they got on and say let see
how strong that is, and theyhold their hand in front of the
(12:07):
tube.
You know I'm great, yeah, anddumb and dumber and uh.
So the way we've been doing thislast several years now is the
hose has to come up against thelimit switch and or the, or the
um, it's like a little flapper,uh, it has to depress that
before allow the engine to start.
(12:28):
And the same thing goes on theexhaust, because if you turn
that on and you don't haveanything on the other end of
that tube and something getssucked in there by accident.
It's flying out at a couplehundred mile an hour.
So so we put a safety limitswitch on the exhaust also.
It can be another thing thatcan go wrong, but we'd rather
have it go wrong and have totroubleshoot it in the field
(12:48):
than have people playing aroundwhen running these things
without without having any hoseson the intake and output right
and getting a finger sucked intothat thing and uh, it's
happened.
You know there's been peoplethat have lost a finger, a digit
, a little finger because it gotpulled in and they're lucky,
that's all they lost.
But, like I said, we are tryingto look at this and say what
(13:09):
can we do within regular meansto make this as safe as we can?
And the last thing that we needto have a discussion on and
deal with is static electricity.
Dan (13:24):
Oh yeah, no, my people love to talk about that.
Dave Krendl (13:26):
Yeah, grounding out on an aluminum ladder two
stories up.
I've had guys tell me in theattic when they're using these
hoses sometimes if they havesteel-toed shoes on, the spark
will jump from the hose downthere by their feet under their
steel-toed shoe.
Jeremiah (13:47):
All right, oh yeah, I've had that happen.
I've had that happen.
Dave Krendl (13:51):
Yeah, you can imagine they're jumping around a
little bit, yeah, just a littlebit.
Yeah, they're testing thedrywall out to see if it's going
to hold.
But in any event, in thatregards, certain times of the
year when the air is dry,there's not a lot of moisture in
the air the static is worse.
All the fibers cellulosefiberglass, rock wool they all
(14:23):
create some sort of static inthe right atmospheric conditions
.
And what a lot of thecontractors do to mitigate that,
if that's, that's an issue.
Now some people tell me theynever had a problem.
You know other people.
It's a real problem.
But, um, what's been done overthe years is they will take the
steel connectors between thehoses and they'll run a wire and
ground each one back to thevacuum.
Then they'll run a ground wirefrom the vacuum because, keep in
(14:43):
mind, the vacuum itself issitting up on the ground, on
rubber tires or rubber wheels,so it's not on the ground.
So what they'll do is run aground wire from there to either
a water spigot on the house,which is usually grounded, or
they'll take just a long shankscrewdriver and connect the wire
onto that and stick it in theground, or crack in the concrete
(15:05):
.
They'll stick it down as deepas they can get it, and that
usually will drain off all thestatic.
Now when you're spraying orblowing fibers with an
insulation machine, it's thesame thing.
You can get static, but withsome of the fibers, because of
the dust, they'll use a wettingsystem.
So anytime you put moisture inthe product a little bit, you
(15:25):
don't have a static issue so thebut we'll just kind of break
this up into components, I guess, of the job.
Dan (15:33):
But so we have somebody on the ground and I I'm guessing
you recommend having somebodythere monitoring the vacuum all
the time, not, oh, just ditch itand everybody hop up in the
attic.
But, ppe and task wise, what doyou tell the people on the
ground to wear and to watch forand where to be and what to do
(15:53):
with this vacuum?
Why they're just on the groundas bags are filling and stuff.
Dave Krendl (15:58):
Okay, good question .
And let me just say this, otherthan what I mentioned on the
face shield and hearingprotection, knowing where to
stand and where to be isimportant, ok, so obviously you
know when you're handling a gunyou're not pointing it around
your head, ok, right, yeah, yougot to remember that the the end
(16:22):
of the gun or the end of thevacuum exhaust is a dangerous
place to be.
So so want.
We don't necessarily want tohang around out there and and
you don't need to be there youcan be back watching the vacuum
work and be ready to change thebags, because on these big
vacuums, every five to 10minutes they're changing a bag.
We have a disc diverter thatallows you to fill a bag and as
soon as that bag's full, youjust channel to the next bag and
change bags.
(16:42):
You're never shutting down, but, with that said, most of the
people that are filling thesebags don't need to be in and
around the bag at all.
Normally we recommend having adischarge hose of about 15 to 25
feet away from the vacuum.
That will go either into a dumptrailer or into some sort of
(17:04):
trailer, or it can go into adumpster, but you don't need to
be around that watching thatarea of the, of the, of the, of
the process.
Yeah, so that's all the PPE.
I don't know that we needsteel-toed shoes down there, but
it'd probably be nice becauseyou don't know when you're going
to drop something on your feetwhen you're dealing with
(17:24):
equipment that weighs a couplehundred pounds.
Right, exactly, we've alwaysused basic gloves, ones or
whatever.
They can usually protect yourhands because, again, we're
dealing with hose clamps and onsome of our vacuum hoses there's
a wire that goes through themand it's sticking out, sometimes
(17:47):
an inch or so, and it canimpale your hand a little bit.
So, yeah, wearing a pair ofleather gloves would certainly
be recommended.
It probably might help mitigateany static issues too be
recommended.
Dan (18:01):
It probably might help mitigate any static issues too.
Jeremiah, what's the worstplace?
You've seen anybody set up avacuum before?
Because we've got carbonmonoxide issues, we've got heat
issues, we've got all kinds ofstuff.
You had to have run intosomething that made you want to
slap people across the head well, I it was.
Jeremiah (18:13):
It was actually one of one of dave's machines.
When I first took a job not toolong ago.
You know I had these guys.
You know I took a job as CEOwith a company to clean it up
and stuff.
And Dan, you're aware who thiscompany is, but Dave, I'll leave
him nameless.
But you know I go on this rigand it's a box truck, dave, and
the box truck is full ofinsulation bags and what's
(18:35):
leaning against all theinsulation bags running with no
ventilation, kind of midway inthe truck, one of your no
ventilation, no anything, justrunning balls to the wall Excuse
(18:57):
my language, yes, to me, that's, you know.
And there's a fire on thattruck because they didn't listen
.
So you guys can't have this.
You got to move it out of here,you got to get it, you know,
you got to have ventilation.
It's a gas engine, you know, ina closed space and they didn't
listen so it caught theinsulation banks on fire yeah,
(19:18):
two issues.
Dave Krendl (19:19):
I can see it's a problem and let me kind of
expound on that is that most ofour vacuums, up to including our
27 horse, are all portable onwheels, so they should always be
really taken out of the vehicleand run outside.
Jeremiah (19:35):
It's not a lot to ask, dave.
When the machines move veryeasily and when you have three
to four got grown men on site,it's not impossible to do the
right thing.
Dan (19:44):
It's really nice when the tires are still left on the
vacuum.
Jeremiah (19:48):
That was another thing .
One had no tires and that wastheir excuse.
I'm like, well, there's four ofyou and it's not that heavy.
Pick up the vacuum and put itwhere it should be.
Yeah, it's.
That's honestly like I said.
Dave Krendl (20:02):
I'll say this the mufflers get pretty hot and if
you're stacking bags aroundthese things and or even if you
put it away too early, like well, let's say, we're done running
after three or four hours, thatsucker's hot.
I would do all my uh, you know,clean up and all the everything
first while that thing'ssitting down, cooling and that
(20:22):
would be the last thing I put inmy vehicle and absolutely make
sure that there's nothing thatcan fall down on the muffler,
because it can.
Jeremiah (20:30):
Yeah, exactly yeah it sounds like common sense.
But once again, you know, dan,and I said this a few times you
know common sense is not thatcommon and no matter what you
put on the machine, you guys doa great job with warning labels.
Don't put your hand here.
This is going to be hot.
Even though it's a muffler,there's still a label and but
you still go on these job sitesand find these guys like doing
(20:53):
these things.
It's like it's.
You can't fix a few things, butI like, dave, I think you said
you guys do as good as you cando with the stuff when mornings
and the guys just need to listenand read once in a while more
than anything else.
Like this piece of equipment isan engine with an impeller on it
like I don't.
You know it's.
It's crazy what it does and howit works, what you guys design
(21:17):
and the things it does.
But it's in, it's a heavyequipment does, and how it works
, what you guys design and thethings it does.
But it's a heavy equipmentthese guys need to respect.
Sometimes they don't.
They go to the job site, turnit on and you know they don't
understand what they're usingSometimes.
I think that's the biggest deal.
Dave Krendl (21:29):
You know, on some of our larger vacuums we they're
not portable anymore, they'reactually mounted on the back of
the truck.
But when we do install rigshere we will plumb the exhaust
down under the truck.
So it's not in the box and butwe still.
And then a lot of the guys endup putting ventilator fans on
(21:52):
the front of their vehicles oron the side of vehicles to help
put some ventilation in there.
Because you know, again ahundred degree ambient down in
Phoenix Arizona it gets hot inthat truck when you got a big, a
big rig running in there.
Jeremiah (22:06):
So they were melting, they were melting belt, yeah,
yeah.
Dave Krendl (22:14):
And let me say we're always looking for
suggestions on making thingssafer.
I mean, if someone has an ideaout there and whoever your
listeners are out there want tohave an idea and they don't mind
passing it on to us.
We certainly are very receptiveto upgrading and changing
things.
Our poor customers, when theybuy a new piece of equipment,
(22:34):
it's probably different than itwas a year ago.
You know and learn from ourcustomers.
Jeremiah (22:41):
Well, you got to make upgrades and updates right To
improve.
Dave Krendl (22:45):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah , we, we have to think of
another reason to charge youmore money.
Yeah, just kidding.
Dan (22:55):
Okay, so let's move to the to the other end.
We've talked about the vacuumand the output side, and to fill
in bags, let's go to thesuction side.
When guys are up, uh, in anattic or whatever space, they
are actually doing a removal, um, let's go ppe.
What should they have on?
You know we've already talked alittle bit about confined space
(23:16):
, air quality issues up there,any other things like that and
any other cool tips or tricksyou've seen, dave, that will
help somebody get a job donefaster, because an efficient job
is a safer job I agree.
Dave Krendl (23:28):
Um, well, first of all, absolutely have a breathing
protection on.
I can't remember, it's a nNIOSH 95 or something like that
rated mask and and again.
And when it gets hot up there150 degrees, you know you're
you're sweating and everythinglike that, but you definitely
(23:50):
have to have a mask on.
A lot of the guys sometimeswill wear the cotton suits you
know, just to keep the any ofthe itchy stuff off of them.
Up in the attic when you do thejob is important.
We see a lot of the contractorsnow.
Even though these things make alittle bit of noise, they try
to get on the job site earlyenough, around 7.38, if the
neighbors aren't complaining,get that job done before 10 or
(24:12):
11 in the morning.
Or sometimes guys will kind ofdo their other work during the
day and come back at nightaround 7 or eight.
If they can do it until 10 andit is, try to time it so they're
not hitting the peak time ofthe day when the sun's the
hottest.
Okay, um, so, um, uh, breathingmasks, uh, probably goggles,
(24:34):
because that stuff can be youreyes.
The vacuums that we have, thecertain size ones on up, will
take bats.
So we make different devicesthat hold the hose for you so
you're hands-free holding thebats like a taco and feeding
them down the hose.
So there's a lot of that goingon.
(24:54):
The vacuums can takewater-damaged material.
We sell a lot of these to thecontractors down in Florida
right after these hurricanes andthey blow these roofs off.
So you know they like, sothey're pretty.
You know we sell a lot of themto the restoration companies.
You know, like SurfPro.
So pest control companies aregetting these things.
(25:14):
The pest control companies aregetting these things.
When you talk about the foamcontractors, you know just about
every foam contractor I knowhas a blowing machine and a
vacuum.
You know and speaking of that,we got some foam contractors
that when they cut off the bigchunks or whatever no, I'm sorry
(25:35):
, not the big chunks, but whenthey scarify the surface into
the smaller pieces, they'll takea six or eight inch hose in
there and suck up all that stuffinto a bag.
Dan (25:42):
You know, get rid of it done it like it it's a heck of a
lot better to broom.
Dave Krendl (25:46):
I'm scared as hell of those brooms, yeah uh, the
big chunks you cut with theblades, uh, they're a little bit
more of a challenge.
But uh, we have a.
They'll either run in therewith a hose, um, or they'll go
in there with an electric vacuum.
So we have we make a line ofelectric vacuums or run off a
12K generator.
So you get a generator out inyour truck or trailer, you can
(26:09):
run the electric vacuums in thehouse where you're foaming, and
we have a three foot vacuumchute that goes on the front of
the chamber and you flip the lidup and you just sweep all your
pieces to to the chute and itjust sucks them up and throws
them outside in the back.
Dan (26:22):
Nice, nice.
Now my crew will have somethingelse they want me to spend
money on yeah, there you go.
Yeah, I might my guys leaves inher yard yeah, um, so you know
you get up in those attics.
Of course the guys are climbingaround wires and you know
(26:44):
piping and duct work andeverything else like that, nails
, um, god dang, nail staples,all kinds of stuff that'll pop
up in there, and so you know Imake sure they're wearing at
least heavy jeans, uh, when theyclimb up in there.
No, no shorts.
You know you're not getting upthere in your Crocs, even though
Crocs are cool.
I don't care what everybodyelse says, crocs are cool.
Dave Krendl (27:07):
But, yeah, gloves, suits, masks, eyewear pretty
heavy duty shoes, you know,because if you step on a nail
you don't want you to, you wantto at least try to bend the nail
a little bit so it doesn't gothrough the foot all I mean
through the shoe.
You know, but you can't.
I wouldn't recommend tennisshoes, you know, if you got a
decent work shoe.
(27:28):
You know they can be low topsor whatever, but they make some
pretty durable work shoes outthere that might help mitigate
the danger of stepping on a nailup there or something Sure.
Dan (27:43):
Well, it's the coolest accessory You've seen.
Dave Krendl (27:45):
Somebody throw on the end of a hose to help pick
stuff up uh, well, first of all,uh, we do have vacuum tubes,
but they're not used very oftenbecause they're very uh,
limiting on your maneuverability.
In the attic, um, for the wallspray industry, we sell these
four foot tubes that they vacuumoff the floor and they don't
(28:05):
have to bend over to do it inthe house, pick up the recycle.
But in an attic, we've sold anumber of the two foot tubes
just to give them a little bitof a rigidity and a handle to
hang on to the hose.
But a lot of guys don't evenhave anything on the end of the
hose, they're just moving itaround.
I will tell you one thing thatthey do is they will take the
hose and they'll cut a concaveend to it so that when it's
(28:27):
sucking so hard, it doesn't keepplanting itself on the drywall,
it brings in air from the side,doesn't keep planting itself on
the drywall, you know it bringsin air from the side.
So, so, uh, but no, I mean, uh,the vacuum tubes are the
predominant thing that people douse at times.
Um, I've never seen any othertypes of.
I don't know if you havesomething to add to that oh yeah
(28:49):
, I don't know.
Dan (28:50):
Just every once in a while you run across somebody that
made some homemade gadget.
That's like God dang, that's amiracle.
Jeremiah (28:56):
I used to duct tape room handles to the end so I
could reach it back into theback of the eaves.
Because, he's right, I had thetube too.
I always use that tube andyou're right, I tried to get
some newer guys to use it andthey did not want to use that
tube, dave.
I loved it in certainapplications but I found the
thing that the guys, like I said, easy is usually what they use
and I would show some guys thatduct tape.
(29:17):
You know broomstick to the endof the hose and more guys than I
like to admit that's the waythey went, even though they had
the other piece of equipment.
You know that tube that couldget down in there.
That is really well the one youguys sell, but broomstick on
the end of a hose man.
Dave Krendl (29:33):
What I see most often is they'll take that broom
handle and they'll let the hosehang out eight inches to a foot
beyond the broom handle andthey'll tape it maybe once or
twice close towards the endbecause they want to be able to
have that hose bend short of thebroom handle so it's laying
flat across the attic.
So I've seen some guys preferto put the broom handle several
(29:57):
inches beyond the hose.
You know, because it was alwayssticking to the drywall when it
was sucking out.
But like I said, if you prepthe end of that hose with a
concave surface on it where itcan't stick to the, to the attic
drywall, OK, that's a greatidea.
stick to the to the atticdrywall.
Okay, yeah, that's a great idea.
(30:17):
But I've seen some guys usethose, uh, short extension paint
roller sticks and the otherones that are aluminum.
They'll take a four footer, youknow, and they will um tape it
onto the end of the of the paint.
They're telescoping so you canadjust them to whatever length
you want them, but, um, you know, that might give you a little
more flexibility if you need toextend it up to eight feet along
(30:39):
and tighten it down and getback further than what a broom
handle will do.
Sure.
Dan (30:46):
Yeah, jeremiah, what have you seen Other than the broom?
Jeremiah (30:52):
Oh, other than the broom.
I mean, honestly, he's right,Like they they don't.
That's what I see most.
He's right.
Most guys don't put anything onthere.
They're climbing back there andthey're throwing that hose like
it's a whip trying to get itwhere they want it.
So it's, it's like technique andyou know they've.
I guess more times than not,guys in their heads think you
know.
Anything else you got to put onthat hose is going to add more
(31:12):
complications to an alreadycomplicated situation.
You know, when you're in aretrofit trying to get that
attic clean the right way it'syou're trying to get in and get
out.
Most guys aren't going to takeanother piece of equipment, so
it's like your hands are themost simplest thing they can use
, like the broomstick or thepaint roller, something they
have that you know they cancarry with them if they lose it
(31:33):
or they forget it or it's stuckin the attic somewhere.
It's not a big deal, right?
Your boss isn't going to getmad if you leave a $4 paint
roller up there or a broomstickthat was broken anyway.
So you know that's the otherthing too.
A lot of times guys will leavethings up in those attics and
yeah, Especially the wirelessremotes.
Oh yeah, I stopped buying them,dave, like after a couple.
(31:55):
You're like all right guys,like if you don't care enough to
understand how nice this thingis, well, that's why we started
putting beepers on them.
Dave Krendl (32:03):
If you don't press a button within an hour, if you
have enough patience to staythere, they start beeping up
there.
Yeah.
Dan (32:09):
But let me add something the homeowners love it when a
guy leaves one of those behind.
Dave Krendl (32:14):
oh, it sounds like they're, uh, they're, they're
smoke alarm batteries dead sothat's how you screw with your
buddies.
Dan (32:22):
Now just throw one of those up in an attic and let them
worry about their smokedetectors for a week yeah, if
you want to throw 500 up there.
Dave Krendl (32:32):
Uh, let me, let me talk about uh, do you guys get
into doing bats very much?
Dan (32:37):
a little bit here and there .
I mean, like I said, we're wegear this podcast.
We kind of talk about the sprayfoam industry a lot, because
that's where jeremiah and I arereally based out of, but it's
supposed to be all encompassinganybody and everybody.
Dave Krendl (32:50):
So yeah, go ahead well, let me just say this about
the bats thing, because thesevacuums, again, the larger ones,
that will pull a full, uh batdown the hose, you know, 150
feet back to the truck.
Um, these things get a littleviolent on you when they're
going through the house andthrough around doors and door
and window frames.
So what we always recommend is,if you're going to do many of
(33:12):
the bats well, first of first ofall, if I'm holding the hose in
the attic and I'm trying tofeed a bat down there, you can't
do it because as soon as thatstarts grabbing it, the hose
recoils and pulls out of yourhand or your arm.
So that's why we make thesebrackets that you clamp the hose
to.
Then you put the double-headednail a couple of them, up on the
rafter to hold the hose for youwhile you're feeding it.
(33:34):
But that said, um, a lot of thecontractors are either taking
throw rugs or or, um, any waythey can wrap that hose around a
door frame or a window.
Um, they're wrapping it andthen they're taking a sandbag or
some weight and they'reweighting it down.
Because what'll happen?
That that hose will sometimesgyrate three or four feet in the
air and really do some damageto door frames and stuff.
(33:58):
So if you're doing a lot ofbats, secure the hoses down to
something every I don't know 15,20 feet.
Try to secure it, because theygo wild on you.
Jeremiah (34:10):
Yeah, they do, that's for sure.
We also used to use those andalso the the cardboard corners
from our pallets of plasticboxes.
We used to save and put on thecorners.
We use that against where thehoses were hitting, cause they
would they jump and they, if youdidn't have that cover on the
corner, you could it definitelywould dent that drywall.
Dave Krendl (34:37):
For sure it's got power.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Now, you know, if I had ahundred horse vacuum, they'd buy
it.
You know it's just.
You know everybody thinksbigger is better and faster.
But again, we, you know you canonly go so big and have to
worry about safety.
That we're talking about todaybecause you're getting on.
You know, something out therethat can do a lot of damage if
something lets go somewhere.
So, yeah, awesome.
Well, dave, do a lot of damageif something lets go somewhere.
Dan (34:55):
Yeah, awesome.
Well, dave, we get to thispoint in the podcast after we
talked about this and we kind oftry to do a call to action for
everybody.
You know, just to, basically,if you could say one thing to
the entire industry that usesyour vacuums to keep people safe
, what would your statement,what would your call to action
mean?
Dave Krendl (35:15):
I would say we want to use two things we want to
always use a vac saver and wealways want to use a safety
output deflector.
Those two things alone willkeep people from getting debris
and shrapnel we'll call it thatin through the system that can
(35:35):
do damage If they just would dothat.
Yeah, we're talking maybe athousand bucks for a vac saver.
We're talking three or $400 foran elbow, but those two items
alone.
People just don't, sometimesdon't want to spend the money on
it.
We're competing with everybodyelse, but we're highly
recommending.
All of our dealers that sellthese for us are pushing the
(35:55):
fact that you should have a vacsaver and a safety elbow on it.
So that's the big thing I cansay about that.
And um, back to Jeremy's pointdon't leave them in the vehicle
and run them.
Dan (36:11):
Jeremiah, what would you add for the call to action on
these?
Jeremiah (36:14):
Jeremiah, what would you add for the call to action
on these?
Just as I always say, dan, youknow, like I said, I've worked
for a spray foam manufacturerfor a long time but I still, you
know, I've been a contractorand did all these things and I
still on job sites.
When we're doing removals andretrofits and installing foam,
it's respect your equipment,just like with the high pressure
systems.
Understand what you're workingwith.
Where are the PPE that'srecommended?
You know, face shielding gloves.
If you're the guy in the in thetruck using the equipment, you
(36:40):
know got.
Like you said, dave, you guysdon't want to spend the money or
don't want to take the time,but when something goes sideways
, everyone's saying hey, whatdid you forget?
Oh, your safety glasses, yourvisor, you didn't have the
equipment.
We're wearing your PPE.
That was required and in a badsituation.
Those are all the things thateveryone's like man should have,
could have, would have.
Well, don't be the guy that hasto say that.
Respect the equipment, wear thePPE, take the time to check the
(37:00):
oil, check your coolants, allthose things that you know make
these pieces of equipment runsmoothly for long periods of
time.
Don't, you know, run it to theend of the world and wonder what
happens when things break oryou throw a rod or crack a block
because you didn't check thesethings.
Once again, take care of yourequipment, it'll take care of
you.
Dave Krendl (37:17):
I'd like to add about taking care of the
equipment for a second.
Yeah, go for it, please do.
Yes, all of these engines,except for our diesel unit, are
air-cooled engines, okay, andthat means they stay cool in hot
temperatures by the air comingacross the cooling fins of that
of the block of the engine andwhat happens is it's just like a
(37:37):
lawnmower gets grass clippingsaround the engine.
You'll bake the engine.
So I see an all well generallywith a contractor once he bakes
his engine after three months ofuse and he finds out what it
costs to replace it.
They're always cleaning theengine after that.
But if I could say anything inadvance every time you use that
(38:00):
vacuum and you get back to theshop, take a high compressed air
air hose and blow off thosecooling fins on those engines,
uh, it'll last you a thousandhours or more.
Otherwise you might get 50hours out of it and you're going
to bake your engine.
The first thing to go is thehead gasket.
But when a contractor can callthem, they say, oh, I won't
start, it doesn't have anycompression, they probably bake
their engine.
So keep them clean every.
Sometimes people say, well,once a month I blow them off.
(38:20):
That's not enough.
Every time you go out there andget back there, blow them off.
It's usually a lot better to doit when you get back to the
shop because they're cooled down.
The fibers want to stick to tothe to the engine more when it's
hot.
So we we want to let her cooldown.
Blow off that engine, good, andyou're good for the next time.
Change the oil frequently onthese things, because in the hot
(38:41):
and dirty environments themanufacturer recommends changing
the oil more often Every 50hours.
Okay, the manual says every 500hours.
Well, that's in a perfectenvironment.
I mean not our manual manualthat brings manual or whatever.
So, yeah, service and takingcare of that.
So what's that?
Jeremiah (39:02):
I said I I don't really see these things ever ran
in a perfect environment.
They're always ran in that.
You're like you said.
You have to take better care ofthem than if what the
manufacturer says right, becausethose are all tested parameters
, but these are pieces ofequipment, rooms, backs of box
trucks.
You know a hundred degreetemperatures, 10 hours a day
running.
You know it's like you have totake more precaution and more
(39:23):
care to make sure they keepgoing.
Dave Krendl (39:25):
You're right, just keep track of it In fact one of
the biggest culprits that we'vetried to get people out of the
habit of doing.
They'd always put their vacuumcollection bags five feet or put
the dip or you put the bagright on the tube of the output
of the vacuum and if that baggets a little leak in it, it's
blowing dust everywhere.
Where does it go?
It sucks it back through theengine and builds up around that
(39:47):
engine.
So we always say keep the bags,collection bags, a dumpster, 20
, 25 feet away from that vacuum,so if you get a leak somewhere
it's not going to affect therunning of that, of that engine.
Dan (39:59):
Yeah, yeah, and I guess you know my side from a guy that
does not do a lot of removals.
Um, you know, shoot, we did ourfirst one of the fall last week
.
But it's have a plan and ifsomebody on that crew is
proficient, have them write theplan for you.
If not, call somebody, getsomebody there, get, yeah, get
(40:22):
something written down.
Get an operating procedure foreverybody on there so that
nobody's in the wrong place atthe wrong time yeah, there
should be.
Dave Krendl (40:31):
In fact, now that you mentioned that, I will put
that on a decal for everybody,for you guys.
Okay, I can put a somethingtogether that has maybe a five
step or seven step procedure tofollow right on the vacuum.
They're in the owner's manuals,but no one, nobody knows where
they're at right now well, thatstarted the fire in the barrel
(40:54):
out front.
Dan (40:54):
That kept us warm in the morning.
Dave Krendl (40:57):
Okay, there you go.
But no, I you know, really,when I think about it, we put
all the decals saying keep thebag away from the thing, keep it
whatever.
But if there was a cheat sheet,so to speak, or a six step plan
that was pretty inclusive inthose six steps that the guys
might read if you got in frontof them, uh, you can say there
(41:18):
it is yeah, no, and again, we'vegot a whole website that we put
all this documentation on sothat everybody has like a single
landing site to go to to getthis, and this would be great to
have on there.
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