September 25, 2025 • 62 mins
Jessica Sanders takes us behind the judicial bench to reveal the path that led her from tough prosecutor to compassionate district court judge. With disarming honesty, she shares the delicate balance between upholding the letter of the law and honoring her own sense of justice – sometimes making decisions that feel personally difficult but legally necessary.
Having served Autauga County for over two years as District Court Judge after a decade-plus career as a prosecutor, Jessica offers a rare glimpse into what makes an effective judicial temperament. "I have to continue to study for the rest of my life," she admits, dismantling the notion that judges have all the answers. Instead, she emphasizes being studious, candid, and committed to service as foundational to administering justice fairly.
Beyond her professional insights, Jessica reveals how her relationship with her special needs brother has shaped her worldview and given her perspective on life's true priorities. Her dedication to servant leadership shines through as she describes wanting to be "the leader that will take the trash out at the end of the day" – a philosophy that guides both her courtroom and her community service through organizations like Rotary and Lions Club.
Perhaps most compelling is Jessica's perspective on personal responsibility – what she would change about the world if given one wish. "It seems like human nature for us to always have somebody else we want to blame," she reflects, advocating for a return to individual accountability as the path toward positive change. Her message of balancing faith, discipline, and service offers wisdom applicable far beyond the courtroom.
Whether you're fascinated by the justice system, seeking leadership inspiration, or simply drawn to authentic conversation about finding purpose through service to others, this episode delivers profound insights wrapped in warm, accessible storytelling. Join us for this memorable discussion with a remarkable woman who's making a difference one judicial decision at a time.
Music "STOMP" used by permission of artist Donica Knight Holdman and Jim Huff
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm walking all alone down my yellow brick road and I
stomp to the beat of my owndrum.
I got my pockets full of dreamsand they're busting at the
seams, going boom, boom boom.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to Stacked Keys Podcast.
I'm your host, amy Stackhouse.
This is a podcast to featurewomen who are impressive in the
work world or in raising afamily, or who have hobbies that
make us all feel encouraged.
Want to hear what makes thesewomen passionate to get up in
the morning, or what maybe theywish they'd known a little bit
(00:42):
earlier in their lives.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Grab your keys and stomp to your own drum.
Whatever you do, it ain'tnothing on me, cause I'm doing
my thing and I hold the key toall my wants and all my dreams
Like an old song.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Everything will be alright when I let myself go.
Well, I'm pretty excited today.
I have known our guest a littlewhile through my husband and
through a civic club Rotary andso if any of you listeners are
familiar with that, then youalready know that we are going
(01:36):
to be talking with somebody whois a doer and who is out there
in the community and who cares alot about people as individuals
.
So today I welcome JessicaSanders.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Hi, welcome.
I'm so glad to be here.
Thank you very much for havingme.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh, I'm really excited and you know it's funny
because I'm a spouse of aRotarian and so I just get to
see you on the festive andoccasions when Rotary is doing
something.
But I know that there are somany people who know you so
right out of the gate.
Let's get started with.
How do people know Jessica,both professionally and
(02:17):
personally?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So I would say in our community I'm most well known
as being a former prosecutor.
That's what, like my, uh, myjob was for more than 10 years.
So, professionally, I kind ofjust you know you, you become
what you do sometimes.
So I um was a.
I was a prosecutor in Otago,elmore and Chilton counties for
(02:42):
over 10 years and people knew meas a tough prosecutor.
That was it.
I was always tough but fair.
I had great opportunities tomeet law enforcement around our
community, to meet businessfolks and, just, you know,
regular folks, people who findthemselves in the court system,
not necessarily because theywant to be there.
Maybe their house has gottenbroken into, maybe their car has
(03:04):
gotten broken into.
So you have an opportunity tomeet a lot of people.
And when you are a prosecutorfor that long, I can't tell you
how many times I'm at thegrocery store now and people
don't know if they recognize me,like how they recognize me, and
then we talk for a minute andthey're like, oh, I was on a
jury.
So you know, I was a triallawyer for a long time.
So I've, you know, dealt withhundreds of people who come in
(03:27):
to serve on jury duty and youspend, even if it's a day, if
it's three days, whatever itmight be, you spend time with
people.
You just have an opportunity tohave that connection in our
community.
So I am now our district courtjudge.
So I have been our districtcourt judge in Autauga County
for January was two years, so alittle over two years now.
(03:50):
So now they know me as that.
But I still think people youknow sometimes when they see me
they don't necessarily know thehow or the why, they just
recognize a face.
And I think I'm at adisadvantage on that because I'm
a single face and there arehundreds of faces.
So I'm always at a disadvantageand sometimes leave.
(04:11):
Well, my husband will leave meon one aisle of Walmart and he
will be four aisles over justbecause he's unsure of how we
might know somebody.
But so professionally peoplehave known me for years to be
around the courthouse Personally.
My husband Russ and I have gosh.
We have called Prattville homefor so long.
(04:31):
I have been out of law schoolnow for 20 years and I've always
worked in Prattville.
For a short period of time Idid go into Montgomery and work
as an assistant attorney general, but even then we still had our
private connections and myhusband Russ was working in
private at that time.
So when we swapped, when I wentto Montgomery to work for a
(04:53):
little bit, he was in privateworking as the assistant parks
and rec director.
So people know Russ from theballparks, people know me from
the courthouse, but so you know,that's just kind of how they
know us.
And we love Prattville, loveeverything about it.
Russ is actually serving inanother capacity now, he's on
(05:14):
city council, so they still kindof know us in that way.
I was so glad to meet yourhusband Tom and I've been
Rotarian.
Well, russ and I, husband Tomand I've been Rotarian.
Well, russ and I together wehave been in Lions Club, for I
(05:37):
think they gave us our 15-yearpin, which was it?
I can't exactly remember, itwas 10 or 15 years, but it has
flown by.
So we had the honor of gettingthat this past Christmas.
That's how long we've been inLions Club.
But I joined Rotary, I guessabout three years ago, and have
loved it.
So, yeah, while you and I seeeach other at the Rotary
Christmas party, I might bepicking up trash on the side of
the road with your husband as weadopt the mile out near.
(05:57):
You know, target and Academy.
That's our mile that we cleanup out there.
So we love service, we love ourchurch, love our friends and we
love our work.
So that's Jessica and Russ.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, that's a full life.
Yeah, tom has us go by andcheck the mile that y'all pick
up and there's sometimes Iliterally think he's going to
pull over and start picking someup, if it's not when y'all are
going right out there.
Well, you guys are busy.
I mean you lead quite a lifeand sometimes that can pull you
(06:32):
in so many different directions.
And I got a little tickled ifhe goes four aisles over because
he's not sure how he knowssomebody.
We have a rule in our family oflike if you don't immediately
introduce or whatever, the otherone needs to step up, because
we absolutely can't rememberwhere we know somebody from.
Because it's you know, a lot ofpeople have a very personal
(06:55):
connection to you, but you areout there doing so much on a
daily basis.
So did you have any idea whenyou entered law school that this
is the direction and where youwanted to land?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So I knew I wanted to be an attorney.
For a very long time I was thatperson that even I don't know
about as a little girl, can'treally remember as a little girl
what I said.
But as I was a teenager I waslike I want to go to law school.
I want to go to law school.
It's what I wanted to do.
I grew up with my mom intraining.
She taught me to be a very goodlitigator.
She and I would argue aboutabsolutely everything, all
(07:31):
during my teenage years.
So I say my mom was training meto be the best attorney I could
be long before law school.
So I did know that I wanted togo to law school, so much so
that I kind of had that dream, Ihad that desire and I rushed to
college.
So I did college in three yearsinstead of four.
I went back home to do summerclasses and then I would
(07:55):
overload a couple of semestersbecause I was like I've got to
keep going to school after this.
I don't want to go four andthen three.
I was like let's shrink down asmuch as we can.
So I did, and Russ and I werealready.
We were already dating at thattime.
We've been married for a verylong time.
So not that I was trying torush life, but I was just trying
to get you know goalsaccomplished.
(08:16):
So I did college in three yearsinstead of four.
And then Russ and I got marriedthat summer.
So he and I got married thesummer, actually the week before
I started law school.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah.
So we got married and then Istarted law school, finished
that in three years and I loved,absolutely loved being a
prosecutor, loved courtroom,loved everything about it.
But I did know, it didn't takeme long to realize, I really did
think that being a judge, beingon the bench, was something
that I was cut out for.
(08:47):
I feel like I am just a youknow, a candid, real person.
That is good about gettingconnections with people and in
the role that I serve right nowdistrict court, I do juvenile
court, I do traffic court, I dosmall claims, misdemeanors,
evictions so a large part of thepeople that are in my courtroom
(09:09):
are not always represented byattorneys.
You know they're representingthemselves and you know people
might joke and say, well, yeah,that's the people's court or
what.
You know that kind of thing,and sometimes it really is.
But I just feel like that'swhere I'm supposed to serve.
I feel like I can, you know Ican set the standard high, for
(09:30):
we're going to respect courtroom, we're going to do all that.
But I can also be real andunderstand that most people in
there don't want to be there andwe're going to handle business.
You know the best that we can.
Yeah, what makes you a goodjudge?
That we can, yeah.
(09:50):
What makes you a good judge?
Oh, I would say that I thinkthat a lot of being a judge is
the temperament.
Yes, absolutely.
I have to continue to study forthe rest of my life, so it's not
anything that I'm ever going toknow all the answers to, and
any judge or attorney that tellsyou they have all the answers
is wrong, because there'sinevitably going to be something
that comes up where you're likeyou know, I don't know if
(10:11):
you're allowed to do that inthis scenario.
Let me go see what the law saysand you have to dig and research
.
So, always being studious butbeing candid with people and
being committed to service andcommitted to the law, that
creates a temperament for ajudge.
That's important.
(10:32):
I think that a judge'stemperament can make or break a
case, in that you know, if youfeel like your judge is not fair
, if you feel like your judge isnot really even being a servant
of the law, not willing tostudy and look it up, if you
feel like you don't have thatkind of judge, then you're not
getting justice.
(10:53):
So I think the fact that I amwilling to always study, give
people my absolute best and befair.
I think those are things thatmake a great judge my absolute
best and be fair.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I think those are things that make a great judge.
Yeah Well, you know, in societyyou hear so much about the word
unfair and you probably hearabout it more than the average.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
When you hear the word unfair, what do you think
of?
Well, I cannot help but thinkum.
So, as a Christian, um, I youknow, I know I've probably said
this to people you know thatlife is unfair, um, and and as a
Christian, we're not meant tounderstand every part of the
life being unfair, Um, but itsimply is, and and I can say
(11:45):
it's very different today.
Sometimes, when I see juveniles, this is something that I think
our culture has kind of shiftedto, and I'm not saying this
like in a bad way, but sometimesI might see a 15-year-old who
has constantly been in trouble.
I've got the 15-year-old andtheir parents there and I might
say to that 15-year-old who iscomplaining or you know, I've
(12:09):
actually had a child tell mewell, they didn't ask me what I
wanted for breakfast and theydidn't.
You know all these things.
And I look at the child.
I'm like I don't know if yourealize that the whole world
isn't really about you.
You are, like one of the mostimportant things in our world,
but the whole world isn't aboutyou.
And I think they give me thislook like I'm the first person
(12:29):
in the world to have ever toldthem this.
You know, like I'm the firstperson in the world telling you
life isn't fair and everythingyou want doesn't matter.
So you know, as adults that'skind of like it sounds so
negative to say it, but asadults that's kind of like it
sounds so negative to say it,but as adults, I think that it
is incumbent upon us to instillthat in our kids, because it
(12:51):
creates a life outlook, Like itcreates the whole outlook for
life.
On whether or not you have thismentality of all these things
are happening to me or I can bein control of something.
And so it's important for kidsto know things will inevitably
happen to you.
Bad things are going to happento you.
They will happen to everybody,even people who you think are
(13:13):
living a perfect life.
Bad things will happen to themand whether they pull the this
isn't fair or I've got to figureout how to overcome this.
That's a life outlook, and soit's important for us to teach
kids that, and I think a lot ofpeople are missing that.
A lot of people are missing theability to overcome bad things
(13:34):
as they happen.
Adversity is 100% going tohappen.
It's just how you handle it.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, I think that's true and a lot of people in
situations don't realize it.
Well, I guess Tom and I did apretty good job.
We told our kids there werethree kinds of fair in the world
.
It was the World Fair, theState Fair and the County Fair.
And the World Fair is notaround anymore.
Just this yeah, life isn't fair.
(14:02):
But you probably see some ofthe whining.
You know that a lot of us don'tsee.
And then you probably see someof the things that are terribly
unfair and yet hard to doanything about.
Well, what are you most proudof in your day to day?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
What are you most proud of in your day-to-day?
I think I'm most proud ofhaving the opportunity to serve.
So I've been in stategovernment for a long time and I
know that that can sometimeshave bad connotations in and of
itself, but I really do.
I have a heart for service andI'm proud of and it gives me a
(14:48):
ton of satisfaction that youknow.
People come to me with aproblem and I'm going to do it
in accordance with the law, butI still get to be a problem
solver sometimes.
So I'm proud of that.
I'm proud of the fact that youknow I've just had this
opportunity to serve and helppeople overcome problems in
(15:09):
their life.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Well, you know you talk about the study and the
research and the ways in whichwe research have changed.
Do you like that or do you findthat you still have the classic
books you go to or the?
You know?
There's just so much moreinformation at our fingertips
now that you know that can be anoverload.
(15:32):
How do you handle that aspectof your career in person?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Well, there's no going back, so let's just adjust
to where we are now.
Well, there's no going back, solet's just adjust to where we
are now.
And I am not afraid to say thatGoogle research is.
You know, it's not the absoluteworst.
What you have to worry about,what you have to worry and hope
that we're training our kids todo now, is sort through the
information, because access toinformation is there.
(16:02):
It has never been easier to getinformation than it is right now
.
And so you know, you may havean attorney that's going to
Google something, to start withat least, like hey, let's Google
and see what this is.
But then you have to know howto digest it and know how to
sort through.
All right, these articles areleading me here, let's go there.
So I like having easy access toinformation.
(16:26):
I like that the public has easyaccess to information.
But it's always a matter of dothey know how to digest it, do
they know how to put theinformation to good use, and
also not just kind of going downthe rabbit hole of believing
everything that's available inthat information.
So I like it.
(16:47):
I do.
I'm in my office, you can see.
Let's see over here.
You see the books.
Yes, so I do still have thebooks, but I think the computer
gets the majority of our time.
It's, you know, it's easier, itis easier to, and of course we
have, you know, great legalresources where all those books
(17:08):
they're actually in a legalservice that we use.
So don't?
I don't want it to sound likeI'm like a Google judge or
anything like that.
I don't want it to sound likethat's the extent of my research
, but I think the computerdefinitely has changed the way
that we research things.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Well, it's just, I like what you say because it is
figuring out how to digest andthen use it, if you're just
pulling all information in andit just gets that overload and
then you don't apply it.
You know, my degree many, manyyears ago was applied
communications and I wish thatthey would go back to that
(17:50):
because it's like, yeah, youhave all these different aspects
of communications, but applied,yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
And the most successful people now, I think,
will be the ones that know howto digest the information,
because we've got to be our own.
You know we're competing withAI and artificial intelligence
is there.
Artificial intelligence canconsume the data, put it
together logically and make itwork, but we as humans have to
(18:17):
do that too.
So I think that you're exactlyright, and I know that I guess
education as a whole might havechanged a little bit toward that
.
It had to, you know it has tohave.
It can't be the same methods ofteaching that we used to have,
because learning is different.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, definitely.
We've been in some conferenceswith some professors and there
was one in particular that did apresentation about AI, and she
was saying that one of thethings that she does to students
is she gives them an assignmentand says I want you to use
nothing but AI, and so theycompletely do it that way.
And then she comes back andsays all right, now I want you
(18:58):
to take apart everything withinthis and find some hard research
that backs up what AI says.
And she says it shows them thatit's not always right and it
makes them angry.
She says they get literallyangry that they trusted
something, and I think to methat is an incredible way to
(19:21):
teach, because you've givenpermission for it and now you're
like disprove it.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, that's a great lesson and the fact that the
students are experiencingfrustration over that and you
know I trusted that how was thatnot right?
That definitely is a majorlesson in sorting through the
information.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I really, really liked it.
You know you have to deal withtrust issues.
People trusting you to be whatyou're supposed to be on your
day in and day out, and then allthe things that you're involved
in personally require trust.
Are you a trusting personimmediately?
Do you have a trust meter?
(20:00):
Do you know how to gaugewhether you can trust a
situation?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
meet or do you know how to gauge whether you can
trust a situation?
I guess you asked me earliersomething I'm proud of.
That could be another thingthat I'm proud of, but I'm also
grateful for it.
I have a very strong ability toread people I always have and
of course you can't judge a bookby its cover that's not
anything about what's happening.
But I can read a situation.
I can walk into a room.
I can you know?
See, there's 10 people, this iswhat's going on, this is what's
(20:32):
happening.
I have the innate ability toread what's happening, figure it
out and kind of know where theproblems are, know what we're
looking for, and I think that Ithink that that sometimes causes
me to not be trusting because Iam, I guess, evaluating.
I feel like I'm alwaysevaluating in the background,
(20:57):
kind of what's going on.
But the majority of my notbeing overly trusting probably
comes from the prosecutorbackground, Just seeing and
experiencing so many things.
But at the same time, you know,my husband, my dad, would
always tell me you know, Jessica, you're a little too trusting
in that.
Do I lock my car every singletime?
(21:17):
No, I do not.
And have I been to Walmart at,you know, 1030 at night because
I needed something by myself.
Yes, I have been.
So I am able it doesn't affectme like just in everyday living.
I am able to forget about thefact that bad things happen and
can happen and I just live mylife.
(21:38):
I don't watch too many videosthat cause you to be scared to
be in public.
I don't watch too many videosthat cause you to be scared to
be in public.
You know I don't do that.
I'm able to put it out of mymind and live life casually, but
not too casually.
So I'm very thankful for that.
But I think the question abouttrusting it is so important for
(22:01):
me to earn and keep people'strust that I sometimes probably
do overshare, even from thebench, like even if I'm in a
case and I'm talking to theparties, I may let them know hey
, this is the one.
I think that on this issue, thisis how I will rule.
But I need to go look at thisother issue and figure out what
the law says.
(22:22):
But the only way I think youcan really keep people's trust
is to be committed to the law.
There are times when I have torule in a way that is not what
my feelings might say, and so.
But you know the public shouldwant that in a judge.
The public should absolutelywant a judge that will rule with
(22:42):
what the law says and not whatthe judge wanted or what you
know might seem fair.
I mean, that's the truecommitment to the law.
That brings consistency and itreally upholds the whole
judicial system Like people cantrust.
You know well, I trust that shewas studying and she did what
the law said to do, not justwhat people might want to do.
(23:04):
So, there have been times whereI've been required to rule in a
way that I might not have wantedto, and people always say if
everybody leaves the courtroomand nobody's happy, that's when
the judge did a good job.
So I know.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I know.
Okay, so how do you protectthat heart?
I mean you could be torn uphalf of your week listening to
and I mean you.
A lot of times I ask thequestion to people do you listen
with your heart or your head?
And a lot of times you have toput your head completely,
(23:40):
whether you want to or not.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, I mean, you better be listening with both.
I am listening with bothbecause you can't to me.
I can't turn either off.
But there are times where youknow I have to overcome the
disappointment of this is whatthe law says, even though this
might not seem like the solutionI would have wanted, even
though this might not seem likethe solution I would have wanted
(24:06):
.
I mean, I'll kind of give anexample of something.
Well, you know, you might have acase where the parties are in
front of you, they have argued,everything there is to argue,
and you go back and look andthis is how the law says this
case is to be proven.
You know you have to meet thisburden, you have to do this, and
if the people did not meet thatburden, then I'm obligated to
(24:28):
rule in a certain way.
There have been times where Iam obligated to dismiss a case
that I might not have otherwisewanted to dismiss.
But that is just a commitment,and I will say that that
commitment is the hardest partof being a judge that you cannot
expect or anticipate.
Until you're in that moment youthink, okay, I can do this, I
(24:49):
can be a judge.
I've been a great lawyer, youknow I can do this Absolutely,
but when you're in that momentof you know the law says this
it's not what I want, it's notwhat I would have, you know,
necessarily picked, it's not thewhat seems like the best case
scenario, that commitment toupholding the law is the hardest
part.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
So how do you take care of Jessica?
What do you do?
You leave sometimes and go to aworkout and punch a punching
bag, or I mean, how do you?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I will not say that my, my yard looks fabulous, but
I definitely can see that I'mgetting to the to my flower era.
So you know I'm doing flowersand I'm working outside.
I don't I don't necessarilyhave I enjoy outdoors, but I
don't necessarily have a hobbythat like I enjoy outdoors.
But I don't necessarily have ahobby that like has kind of
(25:44):
stuck around forever, but I justI just stay busy with other
things.
You will also.
I am a judge that you will seearound town shopping.
So you know, if you see me inTJ Maxx or Ross and I seem
disconnected, it's probablybecause I am just shopping
(26:05):
through the aisles aimlessly,you know, not thinking about
anything from work that day.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So where do you go when you need to solve a problem
?
Do you have a mentor?
Do you have just a way toreground?
Speaker 3 (26:23):
And we're a match in that.
So Russ is definitely my go-toperson.
You know, jessica, you need tosimmer down or you need to.
You know he will joke and saythat he's been on trial for the
(26:45):
last 20 years of his life, butthat's not true.
He's the only person that willkeep me grounded and, you know,
bring me back to reality whenI'm a little, too, you know,
hot-tempered about something.
But professionally we like I'mvery thankful to have come in at
(27:07):
a time Our circuit has had alot of judge turnover, so we've
got many judges that retired,we've got new judges that came
on and it has been a pleasure tobe able to call on judges who
have retired, call on theirexperience.
You know I used to practice infront of these judges, so it
feels different sometimes thatI'm calling them as more of a
(27:29):
mentor in a role that they haveserved.
So, but I'm very blessed tohave that opportunity to still
call on them and say, hey, thisscenario is coming up.
You know, how would you handlethese situations?
Or even just administrativethings, administrative things
about running the office, or doyou find that court works better
when you're doing it this wayor this way?
(27:50):
Both our judges now who are mycolleagues and the ones that
have retired, have been amazing.
We can call on each other andwe solve problems together, not
specific to a particular case,just in general.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Are you a self-talker ?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Explain.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Exactly.
Do you talk yourself up or doyou talk badly to yourself?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I'm like yes I think I am.
I didn't, I didn't know thatwas a thing, but yes, I think
the answer to that is yes yeah,that's a thing.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's a thing and you're supposed to, you know,
say encouraging things, and alot of people do gratitude
journals and that kind of thingto kind of refocus themselves.
It sounds like you might nothave time for that.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Well, I was going to say my self-talk is a lot less
focused than what you described.
My self-talk is running througha to-do list, like in my head,
you know, like really quick,while I'm getting ready in the
mornings hey, you have to dothis, this, this.
Or you know, jessica, you'vegot this or you walk into the
big room and there's 300 peoplethere and you know it's going to
(29:02):
be an incredibly long day and Iquickly tell myself just get it
done and sit down, just get itdone.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Wow, do you hate reality TV that goes into the
courtroom and that shows,because it gives us all this
picture that may or may not beaccurate.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
So I guess maybe I'm indifferent.
I don't feel strongly toward it.
I've always been a Law Orderfan, so I am a Law order girl,
which is not reality TV, but Iwill watch a law and order
marathon with the best of them.
The fact that I said law andorder marathon it probably dates
(29:44):
me, so I need all the listenersto know that I'm not as old as
that sounded, so I'm definitelynot as old as that sounded.
I caught it when I said it outloud.
But so, and when I would talkto a jury of an IRA, I would
tell them I'd say, hey, how manypeople want to watch Law Order?
They're like yeah.
How many people know thatthat's not real life?
(30:05):
How many people know that theyhave solved a crime?
Done this, done this, done thisall within 50 minutes?
Everybody's like yeah, andEverybody's like yeah.
And I'm like, well, I just Ineed everybody to realize that
we're going to, we're about toenter real life and so, while
that's enjoyable and some of thethings will, might help you
think through the problems youwill encounter we're about to
enter real life and I needeverybody to just be on board
(30:27):
with that.
So so I've I've I've lovedshows like that for a long time.
I don't have a reality show thatnecessarily that I follow my
husband Russ does.
I'm outing his business.
He's always been a fan of, youknow, On Patrol Live or the
court cams, and so I'll hear itgoing on in the background at
(30:49):
the house and I catch bits andpieces of it, or if something is
really hilarious, he'll call meover to watch it, but that's
not something we necessarilywatch together.
I've had enough.
I've had enough for the day.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
Yeah, I mean I have kids thatare involved in things that are
portrayed in drama and I meanyou can't even sit and watch it
with Tori because she'll go.
That was not the way it happens.
And you're like, yeah, we knowthat, but there's times that it
(31:27):
has such a public impact that itcan make your job more
difficult.
To have to undo some of that, Iguess.
But what do you think is thebiggest waste of time, both
personally and professionally?
Both maybe that is a waste oftime for you, but a waste of
time that you see peoplegenerally do.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Honest, I mean, if I were being 100% truthful, and I
find myself guilty of it too.
Social media is probably thelargest waste of our time.
Like it, it consumes us.
We find ourselves attached tothe phone and scrolling.
So, yeah, if I'm waiting inline somewhere, I'm doing it
also, you know, but away fromthe fact that you may be in a
(32:09):
doctor's office or that you maybe standing in line.
If you're away from that, itjust consumes you.
It consumes you, you know, andthings that need to be done,
things that you even wanted tobe done, don't get done because
it consumes us.
So I think that probably is ourbiggest waste of time, that
we've really got to work on somediscipline on how to manage
(32:33):
that in life, Because it will itwill consume too much of our
lives.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, and it's not always true.
I mean you, you see all thesethings that you think, but
they're just a perception ofsomeone's reality that they want
to put out there.
Do you?
Are phones and things a problemin the courtroom?
I mean, do?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
you.
So phones are not allowed inour courthouse.
There's been an administrativeorder for quite some time that
phones are not allowed.
So while I personally am notdisturbed by phones if they were
there, there's just a standingrule no phones allowed.
So but I will occasionally Imean we, you know, if I'm in a
(33:18):
traffic court day and peopleneed to bring in proof of their
insurance or proof of theirvehicle registration, they're
like it's on my phone, I'll handout a phone pass, like a hall
pass.
I'm like go get your phone,bring it to me.
They'll bring it to me and showme, because that's how you know
, that's how we live now.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, we live now.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah, I might still have an insurance card in my car
, but not everybody else does soyou know, it's just, it's on
our phones, so I don't.
I don't find it being adistraction, because it's just
not something we allow, I think,and it's different across the
state.
Some places do and some placesdon't allow it places do and
(33:59):
some places don't allow it.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah, Isaac lost his phone and then it ended up being
stolen and he kind of waswatching it ping around places
and he was without for a week orso and in that time he had to
fly.
Well, your ticket andeverything, your check-in and
all of that is on the phone, andso he was having to kind of
work with us to help him do someof those things.
(34:20):
But he said he loved beingwithout it.
He said there was this freedomof just I can't If you take a
trip without it.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I can imagine that is absolute freedom, because if
you think about going on a trip,whether it's airport or
anything, you're constantlylooking at the phone to see like
where do I go when I get offthe plane?
Where do I go here?
I recently did a cruise and Imean I'm looking on the phone to
see, oh well, what thisactivity, this activity, so it
(34:52):
would be, it would be verydifferent, but you would be
forced to pay attention, right,yeah, like look around you.
You would be forced to that isso true.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
All right, let's go down that road of going on a
cruise.
So is this something youenjoyed?
Are you a cruise family?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
family?
No, I do not think we have been.
So I have a special needsbrother who turned 40 last year
and he's always been a bigDisney person.
We have done Disney before andhe had always asked.
He would say, sissy, can we doa Disney cruise?
(35:35):
I want to do a Disney cruise, Iwant to do a Disney cruise.
And then he would always alsosay I want to do a Disney cruise
with me and my friends, I wantto do a Disney cruise with me
and my friends.
So I convinced my parents andthe whole family that we're
going to do this for his 40thbirthday and we did.
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, my brother Ross .
Speaker 3 (35:52):
So yeah, my brother Ross, three of his very close
friends my mom, dad we took offand we did a Disney cruise and
it was amazing.
So we didn't.
That's not something that wenormally do, but we probably
will do it again in the future.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, that's so cool.
All right, so that probably hashaving someone in your family
that you needed to pay attentionto in a different manner.
Has that made you part of whoyou are?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
um, I would say yes, uh, and, and having so, I had
two young, I'm the oldest, knowbig, just the fact that I'm the
oldest sister, that can probablytell all the psychologists a
lot about my personality,without even, without even
beating me, the fact that I'mthe big sister.
But I think, yes, that.
(36:48):
So, having Ross in my life,I've always cared and had a
different outlook, a differentperspective on things, cared and
had a different outlook, adifferent perspective on things.
But it's also something else,just to keep me real, you know,
like to keep me real aboutwhat's important, what's not
important, recognizing what wethink is important.
I don't sometimes it feels likea curse, but I have a ton of,
(37:11):
like self-awareness, not that Ialways make the right decisions
or do the right thing, you know,yes, I mess up, but I have a
ton of self-awareness, not thatI always make the right
decisions or do the right thing,you know, yes, I mess up, but I
have a ton of self-awarenessabout, okay, this is not really
important, I'm just feeling thisis important because blah, blah
, blah, and so it just gives youa different outlook on life and
it's an outlook that Isometimes probably frustratingly
(37:32):
to others, try to portray onothers Like why don't you see it
this way too?
You know so, but even Irecognize people, don't?
see things the same way becauseof our life experiences.
So, yeah, I think having Rossin my life definitely shapes
some things all for the better,in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah Well, I mean, you're taking what you have,
what you deal with and havedealt with, and then we all look
through the eyes of whateverwe've experienced and um, so
that that is a pretty goodself-awareness.
What do you define as beingstrong?
I mean I, I immediately thinkyou know, um, you, you're a
strong woman, you've got strongopinions, you're in leadership
(38:15):
roles.
So I can give you my definitionof strong.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
What's yours.
So I think mine is largely madeup of the amount of
self-discipline somebody has.
So if I look at a person thatis very disciplined in their
life, I mean in many things, notnecessarily just one thing, but
in many things if somebody isvery disciplined in their life,
(38:45):
I just look at that person withadmiration of wow, they are so
strong.
But then I mean, of course, youknow, you can throw in all the
other things, like beingphysically strong, emotionally
strong and all that, but if Irecognize self-discipline in
someone else, I automaticallyhave admiration that that's a
(39:06):
very strong person.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah, that's good, and you've probably watched a
lot of leader positions aroundyou, both personally and
professionally.
What's your idea of a goodleader?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
A servant leader, that's.
You know.
I've joked with people that Ihave always wanted to be the
leader that I will take thetrash out together on the end of
the day.
We'll come in in the morningand do whatever we need to do.
I have recognized that in otherleaders in my life that I've
(39:47):
had the opportunity to be withand I knew that was something
that was just a priority for meand it's easy to recognize.
It's easy to recognize peoplewho will lead by, by serving.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, that Tom is that kind of leader and from my
perspective and and I watch Imean you know, a lot of times
people will say, oh wow, I meanhe's in charge, and it's like,
yeah, he he'll, he'll empty thetrash.
Oh wow, I mean he's in chargeand it's like, yeah, he he'll,
he'll empty the trash.
And you know, it's like youdon't want to discredit the role
(40:21):
but at the same time he can getthings done by having people do
it with him, and I think that'show he leads in our family.
It's how our kids have seen andgrown up and and they've
assumed leadership roles.
But there's still a lot ofthings that you in a leader
position can just really makeyour brain hurt and you surround
(40:45):
yourself with some people thatcan help with those aspects.
What subject makes your brainache?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
makes your brain ache .
So I think if you've ever beena part of I don't admit probably
anybody in a leadership rolehas done this you know the
personality studies that theyput you through, where they tell
you, hey, you're either youknow all your numbers and your
colors are in this area, thatkind of thing what really, I
guess, grinds me or gets me justall kinds of upset.
And it's funny that I say it butit's bureaucracy, like the idea
(41:27):
of processes, that I don'tunderstand.
And I recognize that I work ina courtroom and that people are
having to fill out forms andthat you know, I mean, I
recognize that, but just theidea of unnecessary processes,
oh my goodness, I can't standthe thought of it, I can't stand
(41:50):
participating in it, I can'tstand doing it.
You know so what it's.
It's funny, I mean it, and andso I try to be very for all the
people who have come into mycourtroom and you think, oh my
gosh, that was way too muchbureaucracy.
Please, I need a feedback boxbecause I want to shrink that
down as much as possible just totake care of business.
(42:13):
I know there's, there is a levelof it that you just simply
cannot avoid.
But in the multiple differentstudies that I've counted, those
personality things that I'vedone, and I see it on a daily
basis If there is some processin place that I can't understand
the purpose of the process, orthat it seems to be a useless
process, or that the processserves like there are no results
(42:35):
that come about because of theprocess, oh I can't stand it, it
irritates me.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
That's funny.
And yeah, I mean you're right,there's some of that you can't
do anything about, no matter howhigh up you are on the
establishment, it just doesn't.
It's not something you can fix.
That's funny.
What always makes you smile?
You have a day that can bereally, really tough, but yet
(43:04):
there's something that's alwaysgoing to make you smile.
What might that be?
Speaker 3 (43:11):
I think family, yeah, so it's just family.
It's coming home and you know,seeing Russ or talking to my
brother, it's family powerfulwoman in a profession and you
bring that to your relationship.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Sometimes that's hard for people to handle.
So what kind of relationshippointers would you have for
(43:49):
somebody who is trying tofulfill their role as a woman?
That would be helpful, or maybeeven advice that you would have
given yourself, you know, 20years ago, 30 years ago.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
So, while it absolutely I'm aware that it's
not the popular opinion, Ibelieve in you know Christ's
role for the man and woman andif you are serving and seeing
yourself as a woman in that role, you can be successful.
(44:27):
But it's not necessarily aboutthe you know, oh, I'm a female.
This because if you're, if you,if you focus on being the kind
of woman that Christ would wantyou to be, then then it just
fits like every part of yourlife fits.
And yeah, you know, a strongpersonality is gonna, it's gonna
(44:50):
get you in hot water sometimes,you know, but quick temper and
those things, absolutely they'regoing to, you know, they're
going to cause a rub at times.
But if you can, if you can putyourself aside and go back to
what kind of you know what kindof Christian woman servant
(45:11):
should I be in this scenario andput yourself aside, then it's
going to work.
It's going to work in everyrelationship.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
How about defining servant for me?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
How do you define it?
Being selfless and selfless,being selfless, putting others'
needs ahead of your own and justreally paying attention to
needs.
If you're paying attention toneeds and then working toward
(45:44):
meeting somebody else's needs,that's serving.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Do you have to practice listening?
Speaker 3 (45:54):
I don't think I practice.
I have to sometimes make myselfcontinue listening.
So there I would be.
You know, at times I findmyself I have listened Like I
listen intently.
The lines on my face actuallyare very good I listen intently,
(46:15):
I listen intently, I listenintently, speak intently, and as
I look at photos of myself,like even when I'm not unhappy,
I appear to look unhappy andthat's because I'm listening
very intently.
So I listen.
I don't have to practicelistening.
(46:38):
But you know, maybe there comesa certain time in the
conversation or whatever itmight be, where I have to force
myself to continue listening.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, you've already gone to the judgment or the
decision.
Even personally, I mean, I canlike there are times when you
are listening and it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you can't say that, right,you can't say it with your face,
you can't say it with the words, so, but in relationships, you
are in relationships all day andthen you're in relationships at
(47:12):
night.
Relationships all day and thenyou're in relationships at night
.
Do you have a sign between youand Russ that's like I'm peopled
out, I'm listened out, I can'tdo anymore.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
No, actually no.
I think that I think I've tonedit down a little bit.
I've always been the one wherewe come home and I'm the one
about straight 10 minutes.
Let me tell you about my day.
You know, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and it's just
unloading everything.
I don't think that that happensas much as it used to.
(47:42):
So maybe the fact that I amtalking to you know hundreds of
people throughout the day.
Maybe I don't feel the need tolet me just unload everything,
but I still am.
Okay, let's go through the day,let's talk it out.
So I think it's probably toneddown and maybe that's just, you
know, getting older, I don'tknow.
(48:02):
But we both still will talk itout when we get home.
Not every Some days are just baddays.
Everybody has bad days, but forthe most part we'll still.
We both will talk, Probablymostly me doing the talking.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Tom and I have this thing that sometimes it's awful
because he's like, he can callme and he goes.
Well, you must have had ahorrible day, because my day has
been wicked, because we alwaysit's like this, we don't take
turns and it's.
I guess it's good, because thenwhen you both have a good day,
you're having a great day, butthen it's like it's hard to
balance each other, becauseyou're like me too, and we've
(48:44):
gotten to the point now where alot of times you can just say
yeah, me too, and yes, and thenwe can move, move on.
Um, what place would you goback to tomorrow, whether it's a
physical place or a place inyour mind, a place in your
career?
What would you go back to?
Speaker 3 (49:02):
I would be at the beach every day if I could.
I'm a beach person, so it'shard for me not to say you know
that I wouldn't be on the sandevery single day say you know
that I wouldn't, I wouldn't beon the sand every single day.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Well, can you tell when you need an adventure, when
you need to go, go do somethingand put your I won't say put
your hand head in the sand, butmaybe your toes in the sand?
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Um, no, I, um, and you know, Russ and I have never,
we've never had the luxury ofdoing like many vacations.
You know, vacations are a lot,so I can survive without it and
still be okay.
I don't.
There's not a point where I'mlike, hey, I've got to go, got
(49:46):
to get out of here, but I findexcitement when I know I'm going
.
So I think I manage okay inthat he's not required to take
me every so many months, youknow, and I can talk about by
the beach house all that I wantto talk about, but he's not
getting it for me.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
So well, we can talk about it, and then a storm comes
through and it's like, yeah,I'm good.
Well, you know, we all do a lotof a lot of people do a lot of
dreaming, a lot of wishing.
But do you think there's adifference and I'm sure in your
courtroom you might, might seethis as well but do you think
(50:25):
there's a difference betweenwishing and realizing your
dreams, and maybe what thatmight be?
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yes, and it's always work, that's.
You know, I don't everdiscredit someone who and you're
right in court, I do see a lotof.
I see a lot of people who mightbe at their lowest of lows.
Maybe they're struggling withaddiction, you know, maybe their
whole life is falling apart forsome other reason, you know.
(50:54):
But I see people at the bottomof their rope, so to speak, and
I honestly believe you know themajority of those people when
they say this isn't what I want,this is not where I want to be,
I want to do this, or, you know, I want to get my children back
(51:15):
.
I believe that they believe whatthey're saying.
I don't doubt that that is whatthey want, but it comes down to
the ability to realize it, andthat's always going to be work.
I mean, it's not, you know.
I mean and I tell people I'mlike this will be the hardest
(51:35):
thing that you've ever done, butyou can do it, and so it's just
.
And that looks different inevery scenario, whatever it
might be.
But when people dream about orwish things were different, or
say that they want things to bedifferent, I believe that.
I believe that's an actualdesire that they have, but
(51:57):
making it happen is a wholeother thing, and the connecting
piece to me is work.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Wow, that is a very concrete pathway between those
two words.
I like that.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Yeah, and it doesn't.
I mean sometimes you know it'sthe worst of the worst scenario,
whether it's whether it'saddiction or whatever it might
be.
But then I mean, even you know,personally, I mean I think
about, okay, I can dream about,you know, having that back
bedroom cleaned up, or I candream about this, but say that I
really want this, I'd reallylike to paint that other room,
(52:35):
and I believe you know, yes,that is a desire, but in order
for it to realize itself,there's got to be work, and so
it has to be.
It has to be a willingness andcommitment to put in the work to
make it happen, whether it'ssomething small or something big
.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Do people tell you, Jessica, that you are a
no-nonsense kind of person?
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I think so.
Yes, but I'm also pretty fun.
But I think you can beno-nonsense and fun.
You can be both those things.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Yeah, I like that.
If you could say a specialthank you to someone in your
life, who would that be and whatwould thank you be?
Speaker 3 (53:23):
I recently lost my dad, in January, and so, yeah,
that will be.
This is the part where it'sreally hard to answer, but I
think it's my dad.
He instilled in me my workethic, you know, just the desire
to be an honest person and tolive in all the right ways.
(53:51):
He was an amazing Christian manin all the right ways.
He was an amazing Christian man, and so he inspired me in ways
that I didn't even realize thatI was being inspired.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Oh, wow, wow.
That is amazing when you startlooking back and going oh, that
was that pathway.
Yes, well, just from myperspective, what a fabulous
influence he's been.
He has definitely been.
If you could change one thingabout the world and there's so
(54:27):
much going on in the world todayand you see kind of the
underbelly of some of it so ifthere was one thing you could
change in the world, what wouldit be?
Speaker 3 (54:38):
I might answer this question differently on any
given day, but I think I wouldjust make personal
responsibility a thing again.
It seems like and it is humannature for us to always have,
you know, somebody else that wewant to blame for something, or
(54:59):
nothing's ever my fault.
But if I could wave a magicwand, it would be to bring back
personal responsibility, becauseif people have personal
responsibility, I think itreally it changes, changes the
whole world.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
Yeah, personal responsibility would take it off
of the shoulders of somebodyelse.
Speaker 3 (55:18):
Yeah, I mean, people have an expectation that the
government or the church orwhatever.
People have an expectation thatthose things fix things.
Those things don't fix anything, you know.
They're designed to help makepeople better, but it's personal
responsibility that reallychanges things.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
And personal responsibility,you know it comes through living
life.
I mean you kind of figure outalong the way.
But you know I can look at yourlife and people can look at
your life and go man, jessica,you have not had any boulders
whatsoever.
You are like just you've gotthis dream of what you're going
(56:01):
to do, what you're going to be,you have a direction.
You had the three years ofschool, you know, making sure
and taking a load.
I mean you just you had a plan.
You executed boom, boom, boom,boom, boom.
Are there any boulders that youjust hit and have to either go
around or go through or dealwith?
Speaker 3 (56:29):
I mean I guess in so my parents divorced when I was
like 12.
I mean, I guess in so myparents divorced when I was like
12.
And that's obviously somethingthat impacts your life.
We were I mean, my parents wereboth amazing, but we were not a
silver spoon family.
We were a working family thatdid school shopping once a year,
(56:51):
you know like just barely, youknow kind of getting by.
And so, yeah, I mean people canlook from the outside and say,
oh, you've had it easier, you'vehad this.
But I consider myself just a100% regular person that had
tons of experiences some good,some bad growing up and still,
you know, people still haveadversity and things that go on
(57:15):
in your life.
So just regular person.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
If this were your platform and you could just talk
about anything, any subject,loudly, and everybody would hear
you and maybe make a change orput in what you say.
What's your platform?
What would you shout?
Speaker 3 (57:36):
Let's turn it around everybody and get back to God.
I'm going to end it with that.
Like you know, everybody, putyourself aside, let's get back
to God.
It's the only thing that willsustain us.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
There you go.
If people wanted to get intouch with you for a reason, is
there a way they can?
Speaker 3 (57:57):
Sure, so my office number is 334-358-6820.
And you can call anytime.
Let us know what you might need, except the folks that call
about cases.
Don't call about an individualcase.
I won't be able to talk to youby yourself about that, but for
anything else that you mightneed, just call.
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Okay, that's awesome.
We've talked about so manydifferent things, jessica, and
it's been fabulous.
Is there anything that wedidn't talk about that you want
to make sure that we coverbefore we close out?
Speaker 3 (58:31):
I don't think so.
I appreciate it so very much.
I have enjoyed it.
Luckily, you're easy to talk to, so thank you.
Well, good I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
I have one more question, and that is if you had
a superpower, any superpower,whatever superpower you'd like
to choose, what would it be?
You can have it for 24 hours,you can use it personally or
professionally, or both, and whywould it be your choice?
Speaker 3 (58:59):
I think mind reading.
Um, because I want to.
I want to test my accuracy, butI want to be able to turn it on
and off, so I want you know, II think that I'm good at reading
people, so I would want to goall natural, read a situation
and then turn on the mind readerto know was I right?
Did I nail it?
Speaker 2 (59:24):
I love that.
That is so funny.
You're going to test yourself.
You're not just going to take afreebie, you're going to test
yourself.
So I love it.
Thank you, jessica, it has beenan absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Thank you so very much.
I hope you have a fabulous day.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
Thank you, I got my pockets full of dreams and
they're busting at the seams,going boom, boom, boom to my own
(01:00:01):
song.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Find Stacked Keys Podcast on Spotify, soundcloud
and iTunes or anywhere you getyour favorite podcast listen.
You'll laugh out loud, you'llcry a little, you'll cry a
little, you'll find yourselfencouraged.
Join us for casual conversationthat leads itself, based on
where we take it, from family tophilosophy, to work, to meal
(01:00:24):
prep, to beautifully survivinglife.
And hey, if I could ask a bigfavor of you, go to iTunes and
give us a five rating.
The more people who rate us,the more we get this podcast out
there.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
All my dreams.
Like an old song Everythingwill be alright.
Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
When I let myself Go with the night.
Gotta stomp to my own drum.
Stomp to my own song.
Stomp hey.
Gonna put all my boots in theroom.
Gotta stomp to my own drum.
Stomp to my own zone Stomp hey.
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Ooh, ooh, ooh.
Gonna sing it out loud and sayit real proud.
Nobody's gonna step on my cloud, cause I stomp, stomp To the
beat of my big drum.
I got a big drum.
Whatever you do, it ain'tnothing on me, cause I'momp
stomp to the beat of my big drum.
I got a big drum.
Whatever you do, it ain'tnothing on me, cause I'm doing
my thing and I got the key.
Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
Stomp to my own drum.
We'll see you next time.
(01:02:27):
Bye.
I'm walking all alone down my yellow brick road and I
stomp to the beat of my owndrum.
I got my pockets full of dreamsand they're busting at the
seams, going boom, boom boom.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to Stacked Keys Podcast.
I'm your host, amy Stackhouse.
This is a podcast to featurewomen who are impressive in the
work world or in raising afamily, or who have hobbies that
make us all feel encouraged.
Want to hear what makes thesewomen passionate to get up in
the morning, or what maybe theywish they'd known a little bit
(00:42):
earlier in their lives.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Grab your keys and stomp to your own drum.
Whatever you do, it ain'tnothing on me, cause I'm doing
my thing and I hold the key toall my wants and all my dreams
Like an old song.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Everything will be alright when I let myself go.
Well, I'm pretty excited today.
I have known our guest a littlewhile through my husband and
through a civic club Rotary andso if any of you listeners are
familiar with that, then youalready know that we are going
(01:36):
to be talking with somebody whois a doer and who is out there
in the community and who cares alot about people as individuals
.
So today I welcome JessicaSanders.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Hi, welcome.
I'm so glad to be here.
Thank you very much for havingme.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh, I'm really excited and you know it's funny
because I'm a spouse of aRotarian and so I just get to
see you on the festive andoccasions when Rotary is doing
something.
But I know that there are somany people who know you so
right out of the gate.
Let's get started with.
How do people know Jessica,both professionally and
(02:17):
personally?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So I would say in our community I'm most well known
as being a former prosecutor.
That's what, like my, uh, myjob was for more than 10 years.
So, professionally, I kind ofjust you know you, you become
what you do sometimes.
So I um was a.
I was a prosecutor in Otago,elmore and Chilton counties for
(02:42):
over 10 years and people knew meas a tough prosecutor.
That was it.
I was always tough but fair.
I had great opportunities tomeet law enforcement around our
community, to meet businessfolks and, just, you know,
regular folks, people who findthemselves in the court system,
not necessarily because theywant to be there.
Maybe their house has gottenbroken into, maybe their car has
(03:04):
gotten broken into.
So you have an opportunity tomeet a lot of people.
And when you are a prosecutorfor that long, I can't tell you
how many times I'm at thegrocery store now and people
don't know if they recognize me,like how they recognize me, and
then we talk for a minute andthey're like, oh, I was on a
jury.
So you know, I was a triallawyer for a long time.
So I've, you know, dealt withhundreds of people who come in
(03:27):
to serve on jury duty and youspend, even if it's a day, if
it's three days, whatever itmight be, you spend time with
people.
You just have an opportunity tohave that connection in our
community.
So I am now our district courtjudge.
So I have been our districtcourt judge in Autauga County
for January was two years, so alittle over two years now.
(03:50):
So now they know me as that.
But I still think people youknow sometimes when they see me
they don't necessarily know thehow or the why, they just
recognize a face.
And I think I'm at adisadvantage on that because I'm
a single face and there arehundreds of faces.
So I'm always at a disadvantageand sometimes leave.
(04:11):
Well, my husband will leave meon one aisle of Walmart and he
will be four aisles over justbecause he's unsure of how we
might know somebody.
But so professionally peoplehave known me for years to be
around the courthouse Personally.
My husband Russ and I have gosh.
We have called Prattville homefor so long.
(04:31):
I have been out of law schoolnow for 20 years and I've always
worked in Prattville.
For a short period of time Idid go into Montgomery and work
as an assistant attorney general, but even then we still had our
private connections and myhusband Russ was working in
private at that time.
So when we swapped, when I wentto Montgomery to work for a
(04:53):
little bit, he was in privateworking as the assistant parks
and rec director.
So people know Russ from theballparks, people know me from
the courthouse, but so you know,that's just kind of how they
know us.
And we love Prattville, loveeverything about it.
Russ is actually serving inanother capacity now, he's on
(05:14):
city council, so they still kindof know us in that way.
I was so glad to meet yourhusband Tom and I've been
Rotarian.
Well, russ and I, husband Tomand I've been Rotarian.
Well, russ and I together wehave been in Lions Club, for I
(05:37):
think they gave us our 15-yearpin, which was it?
I can't exactly remember, itwas 10 or 15 years, but it has
flown by.
So we had the honor of gettingthat this past Christmas.
That's how long we've been inLions Club.
But I joined Rotary, I guessabout three years ago, and have
loved it.
So, yeah, while you and I seeeach other at the Rotary
Christmas party, I might bepicking up trash on the side of
the road with your husband as weadopt the mile out near.
(05:57):
You know, target and Academy.
That's our mile that we cleanup out there.
So we love service, we love ourchurch, love our friends and we
love our work.
So that's Jessica and Russ.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, that's a full life.
Yeah, tom has us go by andcheck the mile that y'all pick
up and there's sometimes Iliterally think he's going to
pull over and start picking someup, if it's not when y'all are
going right out there.
Well, you guys are busy.
I mean you lead quite a lifeand sometimes that can pull you
(06:32):
in so many different directions.
And I got a little tickled ifhe goes four aisles over because
he's not sure how he knowssomebody.
We have a rule in our family oflike if you don't immediately
introduce or whatever, the otherone needs to step up, because
we absolutely can't rememberwhere we know somebody from.
Because it's you know, a lot ofpeople have a very personal
(06:55):
connection to you, but you areout there doing so much on a
daily basis.
So did you have any idea whenyou entered law school that this
is the direction and where youwanted to land?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So I knew I wanted to be an attorney.
For a very long time I was thatperson that even I don't know
about as a little girl, can'treally remember as a little girl
what I said.
But as I was a teenager I waslike I want to go to law school.
I want to go to law school.
It's what I wanted to do.
I grew up with my mom intraining.
She taught me to be a very goodlitigator.
She and I would argue aboutabsolutely everything, all
(07:31):
during my teenage years.
So I say my mom was training meto be the best attorney I could
be long before law school.
So I did know that I wanted togo to law school, so much so
that I kind of had that dream, Ihad that desire and I rushed to
college.
So I did college in three yearsinstead of four.
I went back home to do summerclasses and then I would
(07:55):
overload a couple of semestersbecause I was like I've got to
keep going to school after this.
I don't want to go four andthen three.
I was like let's shrink down asmuch as we can.
So I did, and Russ and I werealready.
We were already dating at thattime.
We've been married for a verylong time.
So not that I was trying torush life, but I was just trying
to get you know goalsaccomplished.
(08:16):
So I did college in three yearsinstead of four.
And then Russ and I got marriedthat summer.
So he and I got married thesummer, actually the week before
I started law school.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah.
So we got married and then Istarted law school, finished
that in three years and I loved,absolutely loved being a
prosecutor, loved courtroom,loved everything about it.
But I did know, it didn't takeme long to realize, I really did
think that being a judge, beingon the bench, was something
that I was cut out for.
(08:47):
I feel like I am just a youknow, a candid, real person.
That is good about gettingconnections with people and in
the role that I serve right nowdistrict court, I do juvenile
court, I do traffic court, I dosmall claims, misdemeanors,
evictions so a large part of thepeople that are in my courtroom
(09:09):
are not always represented byattorneys.
You know they're representingthemselves and you know people
might joke and say, well, yeah,that's the people's court or
what.
You know that kind of thing,and sometimes it really is.
But I just feel like that'swhere I'm supposed to serve.
I feel like I can, you know Ican set the standard high, for
(09:30):
we're going to respect courtroom, we're going to do all that.
But I can also be real andunderstand that most people in
there don't want to be there andwe're going to handle business.
You know the best that we can.
Yeah, what makes you a goodjudge?
That we can, yeah.
(09:50):
What makes you a good judge?
Oh, I would say that I thinkthat a lot of being a judge is
the temperament.
Yes, absolutely.
I have to continue to study forthe rest of my life, so it's not
anything that I'm ever going toknow all the answers to, and
any judge or attorney that tellsyou they have all the answers
is wrong, because there'sinevitably going to be something
that comes up where you're likeyou know, I don't know if
(10:11):
you're allowed to do that inthis scenario.
Let me go see what the law saysand you have to dig and research
.
So, always being studious butbeing candid with people and
being committed to service andcommitted to the law, that
creates a temperament for ajudge.
That's important.
(10:32):
I think that a judge'stemperament can make or break a
case, in that you know, if youfeel like your judge is not fair
, if you feel like your judge isnot really even being a servant
of the law, not willing tostudy and look it up, if you
feel like you don't have thatkind of judge, then you're not
getting justice.
(10:53):
So I think the fact that I amwilling to always study, give
people my absolute best and befair.
I think those are things thatmake a great judge my absolute
best and be fair.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I think those are things that make a great judge.
Yeah Well, you know, in societyyou hear so much about the word
unfair and you probably hearabout it more than the average.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
When you hear the word unfair, what do you think
of?
Well, I cannot help but thinkum.
So, as a Christian, um, I youknow, I know I've probably said
this to people you know thatlife is unfair, um, and and as a
Christian, we're not meant tounderstand every part of the
life being unfair, Um, but itsimply is, and and I can say
(11:45):
it's very different today.
Sometimes, when I see juveniles, this is something that I think
our culture has kind of shiftedto, and I'm not saying this
like in a bad way, but sometimesI might see a 15-year-old who
has constantly been in trouble.
I've got the 15-year-old andtheir parents there and I might
say to that 15-year-old who iscomplaining or you know, I've
(12:09):
actually had a child tell mewell, they didn't ask me what I
wanted for breakfast and theydidn't.
You know all these things.
And I look at the child.
I'm like I don't know if yourealize that the whole world
isn't really about you.
You are, like one of the mostimportant things in our world,
but the whole world isn't aboutyou.
And I think they give me thislook like I'm the first person
(12:29):
in the world to have ever toldthem this.
You know, like I'm the firstperson in the world telling you
life isn't fair and everythingyou want doesn't matter.
So you know, as adults that'skind of like it sounds so
negative to say it, but asadults that's kind of like it
sounds so negative to say it,but as adults, I think that it
is incumbent upon us to instillthat in our kids, because it
(12:51):
creates a life outlook, Like itcreates the whole outlook for
life.
On whether or not you have thismentality of all these things
are happening to me or I can bein control of something.
And so it's important for kidsto know things will inevitably
happen to you.
Bad things are going to happento you.
They will happen to everybody,even people who you think are
(13:13):
living a perfect life.
Bad things will happen to themand whether they pull the this
isn't fair or I've got to figureout how to overcome this.
That's a life outlook, and soit's important for us to teach
kids that, and I think a lot ofpeople are missing that.
A lot of people are missing theability to overcome bad things
(13:34):
as they happen.
Adversity is 100% going tohappen.
It's just how you handle it.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, I think that's true and a lot of people in
situations don't realize it.
Well, I guess Tom and I did apretty good job.
We told our kids there werethree kinds of fair in the world
.
It was the World Fair, theState Fair and the County Fair.
And the World Fair is notaround anymore.
Just this yeah, life isn't fair.
(14:02):
But you probably see some ofthe whining.
You know that a lot of us don'tsee.
And then you probably see someof the things that are terribly
unfair and yet hard to doanything about.
Well, what are you most proudof in your day to day?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
What are you most proud of in your day-to-day?
I think I'm most proud ofhaving the opportunity to serve.
So I've been in stategovernment for a long time and I
know that that can sometimeshave bad connotations in and of
itself, but I really do.
I have a heart for service andI'm proud of and it gives me a
(14:48):
ton of satisfaction that youknow.
People come to me with aproblem and I'm going to do it
in accordance with the law, butI still get to be a problem
solver sometimes.
So I'm proud of that.
I'm proud of the fact that youknow I've just had this
opportunity to serve and helppeople overcome problems in
(15:09):
their life.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Well, you know you talk about the study and the
research and the ways in whichwe research have changed.
Do you like that or do you findthat you still have the classic
books you go to or the?
You know?
There's just so much moreinformation at our fingertips
now that you know that can be anoverload.
(15:32):
How do you handle that aspectof your career in person?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Well, there's no going back, so let's just adjust
to where we are now.
Well, there's no going back, solet's just adjust to where we
are now.
And I am not afraid to say thatGoogle research is.
You know, it's not the absoluteworst.
What you have to worry about,what you have to worry and hope
that we're training our kids todo now, is sort through the
information, because access toinformation is there.
(16:02):
It has never been easier to getinformation than it is right now
.
And so you know, you may havean attorney that's going to
Google something, to start withat least, like hey, let's Google
and see what this is.
But then you have to know howto digest it and know how to
sort through.
All right, these articles areleading me here, let's go there.
So I like having easy access toinformation.
(16:26):
I like that the public has easyaccess to information.
But it's always a matter of dothey know how to digest it, do
they know how to put theinformation to good use, and
also not just kind of going downthe rabbit hole of believing
everything that's available inthat information.
So I like it.
(16:47):
I do.
I'm in my office, you can see.
Let's see over here.
You see the books.
Yes, so I do still have thebooks, but I think the computer
gets the majority of our time.
It's, you know, it's easier, itis easier to, and of course we
have, you know, great legalresources where all those books
(17:08):
they're actually in a legalservice that we use.
So don't?
I don't want it to sound likeI'm like a Google judge or
anything like that.
I don't want it to sound likethat's the extent of my research
, but I think the computerdefinitely has changed the way
that we research things.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Well, it's just, I like what you say because it is
figuring out how to digest andthen use it, if you're just
pulling all information in andit just gets that overload and
then you don't apply it.
You know, my degree many, manyyears ago was applied
communications and I wish thatthey would go back to that
(17:50):
because it's like, yeah, youhave all these different aspects
of communications, but applied,yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
And the most successful people now, I think,
will be the ones that know howto digest the information,
because we've got to be our own.
You know we're competing withAI and artificial intelligence
is there.
Artificial intelligence canconsume the data, put it
together logically and make itwork, but we as humans have to
(18:17):
do that too.
So I think that you're exactlyright, and I know that I guess
education as a whole might havechanged a little bit toward that
.
It had to, you know it has tohave.
It can't be the same methods ofteaching that we used to have,
because learning is different.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, definitely.
We've been in some conferenceswith some professors and there
was one in particular that did apresentation about AI, and she
was saying that one of thethings that she does to students
is she gives them an assignmentand says I want you to use
nothing but AI, and so theycompletely do it that way.
And then she comes back andsays all right, now I want you
(18:58):
to take apart everything withinthis and find some hard research
that backs up what AI says.
And she says it shows them thatit's not always right and it
makes them angry.
She says they get literallyangry that they trusted
something, and I think to methat is an incredible way to
(19:21):
teach, because you've givenpermission for it and now you're
like disprove it.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, that's a great lesson and the fact that the
students are experiencingfrustration over that and you
know I trusted that how was thatnot right?
That definitely is a majorlesson in sorting through the
information.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I really, really liked it.
You know you have to deal withtrust issues.
People trusting you to be whatyou're supposed to be on your
day in and day out, and then allthe things that you're involved
in personally require trust.
Are you a trusting personimmediately?
Do you have a trust meter?
(20:00):
Do you know how to gaugewhether you can trust a
situation?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
meet or do you know how to gauge whether you can
trust a situation?
I guess you asked me earliersomething I'm proud of.
That could be another thingthat I'm proud of, but I'm also
grateful for it.
I have a very strong ability toread people I always have and
of course you can't judge a bookby its cover that's not
anything about what's happening.
But I can read a situation.
I can walk into a room.
I can you know?
See, there's 10 people, this iswhat's going on, this is what's
(20:32):
happening.
I have the innate ability toread what's happening, figure it
out and kind of know where theproblems are, know what we're
looking for, and I think that Ithink that that sometimes causes
me to not be trusting because Iam, I guess, evaluating.
I feel like I'm alwaysevaluating in the background,
(20:57):
kind of what's going on.
But the majority of my notbeing overly trusting probably
comes from the prosecutorbackground, Just seeing and
experiencing so many things.
But at the same time, you know,my husband, my dad, would
always tell me you know, Jessica, you're a little too trusting
in that.
Do I lock my car every singletime?
(21:17):
No, I do not.
And have I been to Walmart at,you know, 1030 at night because
I needed something by myself.
Yes, I have been.
So I am able it doesn't affectme like just in everyday living.
I am able to forget about thefact that bad things happen and
can happen and I just live mylife.
(21:38):
I don't watch too many videosthat cause you to be scared to
be in public.
I don't watch too many videosthat cause you to be scared to
be in public.
You know I don't do that.
I'm able to put it out of mymind and live life casually, but
not too casually.
So I'm very thankful for that.
But I think the question abouttrusting it is so important for
(22:01):
me to earn and keep people'strust that I sometimes probably
do overshare, even from thebench, like even if I'm in a
case and I'm talking to theparties, I may let them know hey
, this is the one.
I think that on this issue, thisis how I will rule.
But I need to go look at thisother issue and figure out what
the law says.
(22:22):
But the only way I think youcan really keep people's trust
is to be committed to the law.
There are times when I have torule in a way that is not what
my feelings might say, and so.
But you know the public shouldwant that in a judge.
The public should absolutelywant a judge that will rule with
(22:42):
what the law says and not whatthe judge wanted or what you
know might seem fair.
I mean, that's the truecommitment to the law.
That brings consistency and itreally upholds the whole
judicial system Like people cantrust.
You know well, I trust that shewas studying and she did what
the law said to do, not justwhat people might want to do.
(23:04):
So, there have been times whereI've been required to rule in a
way that I might not have wantedto, and people always say if
everybody leaves the courtroomand nobody's happy, that's when
the judge did a good job.
So I know.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I know.
Okay, so how do you protectthat heart?
I mean you could be torn uphalf of your week listening to
and I mean you.
A lot of times I ask thequestion to people do you listen
with your heart or your head?
And a lot of times you have toput your head completely,
(23:40):
whether you want to or not.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, I mean, you better be listening with both.
I am listening with bothbecause you can't to me.
I can't turn either off.
But there are times where youknow I have to overcome the
disappointment of this is whatthe law says, even though this
might not seem like the solutionI would have wanted, even
though this might not seem likethe solution I would have wanted
(24:06):
.
I mean, I'll kind of give anexample of something.
Well, you know, you might have acase where the parties are in
front of you, they have argued,everything there is to argue,
and you go back and look andthis is how the law says this
case is to be proven.
You know you have to meet thisburden, you have to do this, and
if the people did not meet thatburden, then I'm obligated to
(24:28):
rule in a certain way.
There have been times where Iam obligated to dismiss a case
that I might not have otherwisewanted to dismiss.
But that is just a commitment,and I will say that that
commitment is the hardest partof being a judge that you cannot
expect or anticipate.
Until you're in that moment youthink, okay, I can do this, I
(24:49):
can be a judge.
I've been a great lawyer, youknow I can do this Absolutely,
but when you're in that momentof you know the law says this
it's not what I want, it's notwhat I would have, you know,
necessarily picked, it's not thewhat seems like the best case
scenario, that commitment toupholding the law is the hardest
part.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
So how do you take care of Jessica?
What do you do?
You leave sometimes and go to aworkout and punch a punching
bag, or I mean, how do you?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I will not say that my, my yard looks fabulous, but
I definitely can see that I'mgetting to the to my flower era.
So you know I'm doing flowersand I'm working outside.
I don't I don't necessarilyhave I enjoy outdoors, but I
don't necessarily have a hobbythat like I enjoy outdoors.
But I don't necessarily have ahobby that like has kind of
(25:44):
stuck around forever, but I justI just stay busy with other
things.
You will also.
I am a judge that you will seearound town shopping.
So you know, if you see me inTJ Maxx or Ross and I seem
disconnected, it's probablybecause I am just shopping
(26:05):
through the aisles aimlessly,you know, not thinking about
anything from work that day.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So where do you go when you need to solve a problem
?
Do you have a mentor?
Do you have just a way toreground?
Speaker 3 (26:23):
And we're a match in that.
So Russ is definitely my go-toperson.
You know, jessica, you need tosimmer down or you need to.
You know he will joke and saythat he's been on trial for the
(26:45):
last 20 years of his life, butthat's not true.
He's the only person that willkeep me grounded and, you know,
bring me back to reality whenI'm a little, too, you know,
hot-tempered about something.
But professionally we like I'mvery thankful to have come in at
(27:07):
a time Our circuit has had alot of judge turnover, so we've
got many judges that retired,we've got new judges that came
on and it has been a pleasure tobe able to call on judges who
have retired, call on theirexperience.
You know I used to practice infront of these judges, so it
feels different sometimes thatI'm calling them as more of a
(27:29):
mentor in a role that they haveserved.
So, but I'm very blessed tohave that opportunity to still
call on them and say, hey, thisscenario is coming up.
You know, how would you handlethese situations?
Or even just administrativethings, administrative things
about running the office, or doyou find that court works better
when you're doing it this wayor this way?
(27:50):
Both our judges now who are mycolleagues and the ones that
have retired, have been amazing.
We can call on each other andwe solve problems together, not
specific to a particular case,just in general.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Are you a self-talker ?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Explain.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Exactly.
Do you talk yourself up or doyou talk badly to yourself?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I'm like yes I think I am.
I didn't, I didn't know thatwas a thing, but yes, I think
the answer to that is yes yeah,that's a thing.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's a thing and you're supposed to, you know,
say encouraging things, and alot of people do gratitude
journals and that kind of thingto kind of refocus themselves.
It sounds like you might nothave time for that.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Well, I was going to say my self-talk is a lot less
focused than what you described.
My self-talk is running througha to-do list, like in my head,
you know, like really quick,while I'm getting ready in the
mornings hey, you have to dothis, this, this.
Or you know, jessica, you'vegot this or you walk into the
big room and there's 300 peoplethere and you know it's going to
(29:02):
be an incredibly long day and Iquickly tell myself just get it
done and sit down, just get itdone.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Wow, do you hate reality TV that goes into the
courtroom and that shows,because it gives us all this
picture that may or may not beaccurate.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
So I guess maybe I'm indifferent.
I don't feel strongly toward it.
I've always been a Law Orderfan, so I am a Law order girl,
which is not reality TV, but Iwill watch a law and order
marathon with the best of them.
The fact that I said law andorder marathon it probably dates
(29:44):
me, so I need all the listenersto know that I'm not as old as
that sounded, so I'm definitelynot as old as that sounded.
I caught it when I said it outloud.
But so, and when I would talkto a jury of an IRA, I would
tell them I'd say, hey, how manypeople want to watch Law Order?
They're like yeah.
How many people know thatthat's not real life?
(30:05):
How many people know that theyhave solved a crime?
Done this, done this, done thisall within 50 minutes?
Everybody's like yeah, andEverybody's like yeah.
And I'm like, well, I just Ineed everybody to realize that
we're going to, we're about toenter real life and so, while
that's enjoyable and some of thethings will, might help you
think through the problems youwill encounter we're about to
enter real life and I needeverybody to just be on board
(30:27):
with that.
So so I've I've I've lovedshows like that for a long time.
I don't have a reality show thatnecessarily that I follow my
husband Russ does.
I'm outing his business.
He's always been a fan of, youknow, On Patrol Live or the
court cams, and so I'll hear itgoing on in the background at
(30:49):
the house and I catch bits andpieces of it, or if something is
really hilarious, he'll call meover to watch it, but that's
not something we necessarilywatch together.
I've had enough.
I've had enough for the day.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
Yeah, I mean I have kids thatare involved in things that are
portrayed in drama and I meanyou can't even sit and watch it
with Tori because she'll go.
That was not the way it happens.
And you're like, yeah, we knowthat, but there's times that it
(31:27):
has such a public impact that itcan make your job more
difficult.
To have to undo some of that, Iguess.
But what do you think is thebiggest waste of time, both
personally and professionally?
Both maybe that is a waste oftime for you, but a waste of
time that you see peoplegenerally do.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Honest, I mean, if I were being 100% truthful, and I
find myself guilty of it too.
Social media is probably thelargest waste of our time.
Like it, it consumes us.
We find ourselves attached tothe phone and scrolling.
So, yeah, if I'm waiting inline somewhere, I'm doing it
also, you know, but away fromthe fact that you may be in a
(32:09):
doctor's office or that you maybe standing in line.
If you're away from that, itjust consumes you.
It consumes you, you know, andthings that need to be done,
things that you even wanted tobe done, don't get done because
it consumes us.
So I think that probably is ourbiggest waste of time, that
we've really got to work on somediscipline on how to manage
(32:33):
that in life, Because it will itwill consume too much of our
lives.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, and it's not always true.
I mean you, you see all thesethings that you think, but
they're just a perception ofsomeone's reality that they want
to put out there.
Do you?
Are phones and things a problemin the courtroom?
I mean, do?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
you.
So phones are not allowed inour courthouse.
There's been an administrativeorder for quite some time that
phones are not allowed.
So while I personally am notdisturbed by phones if they were
there, there's just a standingrule no phones allowed.
So but I will occasionally Imean we, you know, if I'm in a
(33:18):
traffic court day and peopleneed to bring in proof of their
insurance or proof of theirvehicle registration, they're
like it's on my phone, I'll handout a phone pass, like a hall
pass.
I'm like go get your phone,bring it to me.
They'll bring it to me and showme, because that's how you know
, that's how we live now.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, we live now.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah, I might still have an insurance card in my car
, but not everybody else does soyou know, it's just, it's on
our phones, so I don't.
I don't find it being adistraction, because it's just
not something we allow, I think,and it's different across the
state.
Some places do and some placesdon't allow it places do and
(33:59):
some places don't allow it.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah, Isaac lost his phone and then it ended up being
stolen and he kind of waswatching it ping around places
and he was without for a week orso and in that time he had to
fly.
Well, your ticket andeverything, your check-in and
all of that is on the phone, andso he was having to kind of
work with us to help him do someof those things.
(34:20):
But he said he loved beingwithout it.
He said there was this freedomof just I can't If you take a
trip without it.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I can imagine that is absolute freedom, because if
you think about going on a trip,whether it's airport or
anything, you're constantlylooking at the phone to see like
where do I go when I get offthe plane?
Where do I go here?
I recently did a cruise and Imean I'm looking on the phone to
see, oh well, what thisactivity, this activity, so it
(34:52):
would be, it would be verydifferent, but you would be
forced to pay attention, right,yeah, like look around you.
You would be forced to that isso true.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
All right, let's go down that road of going on a
cruise.
So is this something youenjoyed?
Are you a cruise family?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
family?
No, I do not think we have been.
So I have a special needsbrother who turned 40 last year
and he's always been a bigDisney person.
We have done Disney before andhe had always asked.
He would say, sissy, can we doa Disney cruise?
(35:35):
I want to do a Disney cruise, Iwant to do a Disney cruise.
And then he would always alsosay I want to do a Disney cruise
with me and my friends, I wantto do a Disney cruise with me
and my friends.
So I convinced my parents andthe whole family that we're
going to do this for his 40thbirthday and we did.
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, my brother Ross .
Speaker 3 (35:52):
So yeah, my brother Ross, three of his very close
friends my mom, dad we took offand we did a Disney cruise and
it was amazing.
So we didn't.
That's not something that wenormally do, but we probably
will do it again in the future.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, that's so cool.
All right, so that probably hashaving someone in your family
that you needed to pay attentionto in a different manner.
Has that made you part of whoyou are?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
um, I would say yes, uh, and, and having so, I had
two young, I'm the oldest, knowbig, just the fact that I'm the
oldest sister, that can probablytell all the psychologists a
lot about my personality,without even, without even
beating me, the fact that I'mthe big sister.
But I think, yes, that.
(36:48):
So, having Ross in my life,I've always cared and had a
different outlook, a differentperspective on things, cared and
had a different outlook, adifferent perspective on things.
But it's also something else,just to keep me real, you know,
like to keep me real aboutwhat's important, what's not
important, recognizing what wethink is important.
I don't sometimes it feels likea curse, but I have a ton of,
(37:11):
like self-awareness, not that Ialways make the right decisions
or do the right thing, you know,yes, I mess up, but I have a
ton of self-awareness, not thatI always make the right
decisions or do the right thing,you know, yes, I mess up, but I
have a ton of self-awarenessabout, okay, this is not really
important, I'm just feeling thisis important because blah, blah
, blah, and so it just gives youa different outlook on life and
it's an outlook that Isometimes probably frustratingly
(37:32):
to others, try to portray onothers Like why don't you see it
this way too?
You know so, but even Irecognize people, don't?
see things the same way becauseof our life experiences.
So, yeah, I think having Rossin my life definitely shapes
some things all for the better,in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah Well, I mean, you're taking what you have,
what you deal with and havedealt with, and then we all look
through the eyes of whateverwe've experienced and um, so
that that is a pretty goodself-awareness.
What do you define as beingstrong?
I mean I, I immediately thinkyou know, um, you, you're a
strong woman, you've got strongopinions, you're in leadership
(38:15):
roles.
So I can give you my definitionof strong.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
What's yours.
So I think mine is largely madeup of the amount of
self-discipline somebody has.
So if I look at a person thatis very disciplined in their
life, I mean in many things, notnecessarily just one thing, but
in many things if somebody isvery disciplined in their life,
(38:45):
I just look at that person withadmiration of wow, they are so
strong.
But then I mean, of course, youknow, you can throw in all the
other things, like beingphysically strong, emotionally
strong and all that, but if Irecognize self-discipline in
someone else, I automaticallyhave admiration that that's a
(39:06):
very strong person.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah, that's good, and you've probably watched a
lot of leader positions aroundyou, both personally and
professionally.
What's your idea of a goodleader?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
A servant leader, that's.
You know.
I've joked with people that Ihave always wanted to be the
leader that I will take thetrash out together on the end of
the day.
We'll come in in the morningand do whatever we need to do.
I have recognized that in otherleaders in my life that I've
(39:47):
had the opportunity to be withand I knew that was something
that was just a priority for meand it's easy to recognize.
It's easy to recognize peoplewho will lead by, by serving.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, that Tom is that kind of leader and from my
perspective and and I watch Imean you know, a lot of times
people will say, oh wow, I meanhe's in charge, and it's like,
yeah, he he'll, he'll empty thetrash.
Oh wow, I mean he's in chargeand it's like, yeah, he he'll,
he'll empty the trash.
And you know, it's like youdon't want to discredit the role
(40:21):
but at the same time he can getthings done by having people do
it with him, and I think that'show he leads in our family.
It's how our kids have seen andgrown up and and they've
assumed leadership roles.
But there's still a lot ofthings that you in a leader
position can just really makeyour brain hurt and you surround
(40:45):
yourself with some people thatcan help with those aspects.
What subject makes your brainache?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
makes your brain ache .
So I think if you've ever beena part of I don't admit probably
anybody in a leadership rolehas done this you know the
personality studies that theyput you through, where they tell
you, hey, you're either youknow all your numbers and your
colors are in this area, thatkind of thing what really, I
guess, grinds me or gets me justall kinds of upset.
And it's funny that I say it butit's bureaucracy, like the idea
(41:27):
of processes, that I don'tunderstand.
And I recognize that I work ina courtroom and that people are
having to fill out forms andthat you know, I mean, I
recognize that, but just theidea of unnecessary processes,
oh my goodness, I can't standthe thought of it, I can't stand
(41:50):
participating in it, I can'tstand doing it.
You know so what it's.
It's funny, I mean it, and andso I try to be very for all the
people who have come into mycourtroom and you think, oh my
gosh, that was way too muchbureaucracy.
Please, I need a feedback boxbecause I want to shrink that
down as much as possible just totake care of business.
(42:13):
I know there's, there is a levelof it that you just simply
cannot avoid.
But in the multiple differentstudies that I've counted, those
personality things that I'vedone, and I see it on a daily
basis If there is some processin place that I can't understand
the purpose of the process, orthat it seems to be a useless
process, or that the processserves like there are no results
(42:35):
that come about because of theprocess, oh I can't stand it, it
irritates me.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
That's funny.
And yeah, I mean you're right,there's some of that you can't
do anything about, no matter howhigh up you are on the
establishment, it just doesn't.
It's not something you can fix.
That's funny.
What always makes you smile?
You have a day that can bereally, really tough, but yet
(43:04):
there's something that's alwaysgoing to make you smile.
What might that be?
Speaker 3 (43:11):
I think family, yeah, so it's just family.
It's coming home and you know,seeing Russ or talking to my
brother, it's family powerfulwoman in a profession and you
bring that to your relationship.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Sometimes that's hard for people to handle.
So what kind of relationshippointers would you have for
(43:49):
somebody who is trying tofulfill their role as a woman?
That would be helpful, or maybeeven advice that you would have
given yourself, you know, 20years ago, 30 years ago.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
So, while it absolutely I'm aware that it's
not the popular opinion, Ibelieve in you know Christ's
role for the man and woman andif you are serving and seeing
yourself as a woman in that role, you can be successful.
(44:27):
But it's not necessarily aboutthe you know, oh, I'm a female.
This because if you're, if you,if you focus on being the kind
of woman that Christ would wantyou to be, then then it just
fits like every part of yourlife fits.
And yeah, you know, a strongpersonality is gonna, it's gonna
(44:50):
get you in hot water sometimes,you know, but quick temper and
those things, absolutely they'regoing to, you know, they're
going to cause a rub at times.
But if you can, if you can putyourself aside and go back to
what kind of you know what kindof Christian woman servant
(45:11):
should I be in this scenario andput yourself aside, then it's
going to work.
It's going to work in everyrelationship.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
How about defining servant for me?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
How do you define it?
Being selfless and selfless,being selfless, putting others'
needs ahead of your own and justreally paying attention to
needs.
If you're paying attention toneeds and then working toward
(45:44):
meeting somebody else's needs,that's serving.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Do you have to practice listening?
Speaker 3 (45:54):
I don't think I practice.
I have to sometimes make myselfcontinue listening.
So there I would be.
You know, at times I findmyself I have listened Like I
listen intently.
The lines on my face actuallyare very good I listen intently,
(46:15):
I listen intently, I listenintently, speak intently, and as
I look at photos of myself,like even when I'm not unhappy,
I appear to look unhappy andthat's because I'm listening
very intently.
So I listen.
I don't have to practicelistening.
(46:38):
But you know, maybe there comesa certain time in the
conversation or whatever itmight be, where I have to force
myself to continue listening.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, you've already gone to the judgment or the
decision.
Even personally, I mean, I canlike there are times when you
are listening and it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you can't say that, right,you can't say it with your face,
you can't say it with the words, so, but in relationships, you
are in relationships all day andthen you're in relationships at
(47:12):
night.
Relationships all day and thenyou're in relationships at night
.
Do you have a sign between youand Russ that's like I'm peopled
out, I'm listened out, I can'tdo anymore.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
No, actually no.
I think that I think I've tonedit down a little bit.
I've always been the one wherewe come home and I'm the one
about straight 10 minutes.
Let me tell you about my day.
You know, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and it's just
unloading everything.
I don't think that that happensas much as it used to.
(47:42):
So maybe the fact that I amtalking to you know hundreds of
people throughout the day.
Maybe I don't feel the need tolet me just unload everything,
but I still am.
Okay, let's go through the day,let's talk it out.
So I think it's probably toneddown and maybe that's just, you
know, getting older, I don'tknow.
(48:02):
But we both still will talk itout when we get home.
Not every Some days are just baddays.
Everybody has bad days, but forthe most part we'll still.
We both will talk, Probablymostly me doing the talking.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Tom and I have this thing that sometimes it's awful
because he's like, he can callme and he goes.
Well, you must have had ahorrible day, because my day has
been wicked, because we alwaysit's like this, we don't take
turns and it's.
I guess it's good, because thenwhen you both have a good day,
you're having a great day, butthen it's like it's hard to
balance each other, becauseyou're like me too, and we've
(48:44):
gotten to the point now where alot of times you can just say
yeah, me too, and yes, and thenwe can move, move on.
Um, what place would you goback to tomorrow, whether it's a
physical place or a place inyour mind, a place in your
career?
What would you go back to?
Speaker 3 (49:02):
I would be at the beach every day if I could.
I'm a beach person, so it'shard for me not to say you know
that I wouldn't be on the sandevery single day say you know
that I wouldn't, I wouldn't beon the sand every single day.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Well, can you tell when you need an adventure, when
you need to go, go do somethingand put your I won't say put
your hand head in the sand, butmaybe your toes in the sand?
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Um, no, I, um, and you know, Russ and I have never,
we've never had the luxury ofdoing like many vacations.
You know, vacations are a lot,so I can survive without it and
still be okay.
I don't.
There's not a point where I'mlike, hey, I've got to go, got
(49:46):
to get out of here, but I findexcitement when I know I'm going
.
So I think I manage okay inthat he's not required to take
me every so many months, youknow, and I can talk about by
the beach house all that I wantto talk about, but he's not
getting it for me.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
So well, we can talk about it, and then a storm comes
through and it's like, yeah,I'm good.
Well, you know, we all do a lotof a lot of people do a lot of
dreaming, a lot of wishing.
But do you think there's adifference and I'm sure in your
courtroom you might, might seethis as well but do you think
(50:25):
there's a difference betweenwishing and realizing your
dreams, and maybe what thatmight be?
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yes, and it's always work, that's.
You know, I don't everdiscredit someone who and you're
right in court, I do see a lotof.
I see a lot of people who mightbe at their lowest of lows.
Maybe they're struggling withaddiction, you know, maybe their
whole life is falling apart forsome other reason, you know.
(50:54):
But I see people at the bottomof their rope, so to speak, and
I honestly believe you know themajority of those people when
they say this isn't what I want,this is not where I want to be,
I want to do this, or, you know, I want to get my children back
(51:15):
.
I believe that they believe whatthey're saying.
I don't doubt that that is whatthey want, but it comes down to
the ability to realize it, andthat's always going to be work.
I mean, it's not, you know.
I mean and I tell people I'mlike this will be the hardest
(51:35):
thing that you've ever done, butyou can do it, and so it's just
.
And that looks different inevery scenario, whatever it
might be.
But when people dream about orwish things were different, or
say that they want things to bedifferent, I believe that.
I believe that's an actualdesire that they have, but
(51:57):
making it happen is a wholeother thing, and the connecting
piece to me is work.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Wow, that is a very concrete pathway between those
two words.
I like that.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Yeah, and it doesn't.
I mean sometimes you know it'sthe worst of the worst scenario,
whether it's whether it'saddiction or whatever it might
be.
But then I mean, even you know,personally, I mean I think
about, okay, I can dream about,you know, having that back
bedroom cleaned up, or I candream about this, but say that I
really want this, I'd reallylike to paint that other room,
(52:35):
and I believe you know, yes,that is a desire, but in order
for it to realize itself,there's got to be work, and so
it has to be.
It has to be a willingness andcommitment to put in the work to
make it happen, whether it'ssomething small or something big
.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Do people tell you, Jessica, that you are a
no-nonsense kind of person?
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I think so.
Yes, but I'm also pretty fun.
But I think you can beno-nonsense and fun.
You can be both those things.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Yeah, I like that.
If you could say a specialthank you to someone in your
life, who would that be and whatwould thank you be?
Speaker 3 (53:23):
I recently lost my dad, in January, and so, yeah,
that will be.
This is the part where it'sreally hard to answer, but I
think it's my dad.
He instilled in me my workethic, you know, just the desire
to be an honest person and tolive in all the right ways.
(53:51):
He was an amazing Christian manin all the right ways.
He was an amazing Christian man, and so he inspired me in ways
that I didn't even realize thatI was being inspired.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Oh, wow, wow.
That is amazing when you startlooking back and going oh, that
was that pathway.
Yes, well, just from myperspective, what a fabulous
influence he's been.
He has definitely been.
If you could change one thingabout the world and there's so
(54:27):
much going on in the world todayand you see kind of the
underbelly of some of it so ifthere was one thing you could
change in the world, what wouldit be?
Speaker 3 (54:38):
I might answer this question differently on any
given day, but I think I wouldjust make personal
responsibility a thing again.
It seems like and it is humannature for us to always have,
you know, somebody else that wewant to blame for something, or
(54:59):
nothing's ever my fault.
But if I could wave a magicwand, it would be to bring back
personal responsibility, becauseif people have personal
responsibility, I think itreally it changes, changes the
whole world.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
Yeah, personal responsibility would take it off
of the shoulders of somebodyelse.
Speaker 3 (55:18):
Yeah, I mean, people have an expectation that the
government or the church orwhatever.
People have an expectation thatthose things fix things.
Those things don't fix anything, you know.
They're designed to help makepeople better, but it's personal
responsibility that reallychanges things.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
And personal responsibility,you know it comes through living
life.
I mean you kind of figure outalong the way.
But you know I can look at yourlife and people can look at
your life and go man, jessica,you have not had any boulders
whatsoever.
You are like just you've gotthis dream of what you're going
(56:01):
to do, what you're going to be,you have a direction.
You had the three years ofschool, you know, making sure
and taking a load.
I mean you just you had a plan.
You executed boom, boom, boom,boom, boom.
Are there any boulders that youjust hit and have to either go
around or go through or dealwith?
Speaker 3 (56:29):
I mean I guess in so my parents divorced when I was
like 12.
I mean, I guess in so myparents divorced when I was like
12.
And that's obviously somethingthat impacts your life.
We were I mean, my parents wereboth amazing, but we were not a
silver spoon family.
We were a working family thatdid school shopping once a year,
(56:51):
you know like just barely, youknow kind of getting by.
And so, yeah, I mean people canlook from the outside and say,
oh, you've had it easier, you'vehad this.
But I consider myself just a100% regular person that had
tons of experiences some good,some bad growing up and still,
you know, people still haveadversity and things that go on
(57:15):
in your life.
So just regular person.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
If this were your platform and you could just talk
about anything, any subject,loudly, and everybody would hear
you and maybe make a change orput in what you say.
What's your platform?
What would you shout?
Speaker 3 (57:36):
Let's turn it around everybody and get back to God.
I'm going to end it with that.
Like you know, everybody, putyourself aside, let's get back
to God.
It's the only thing that willsustain us.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
There you go.
If people wanted to get intouch with you for a reason, is
there a way they can?
Speaker 3 (57:57):
Sure, so my office number is 334-358-6820.
And you can call anytime.
Let us know what you might need, except the folks that call
about cases.
Don't call about an individualcase.
I won't be able to talk to youby yourself about that, but for
anything else that you mightneed, just call.
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Okay, that's awesome.
We've talked about so manydifferent things, jessica, and
it's been fabulous.
Is there anything that wedidn't talk about that you want
to make sure that we coverbefore we close out?
Speaker 3 (58:31):
I don't think so.
I appreciate it so very much.
I have enjoyed it.
Luckily, you're easy to talk to, so thank you.
Well, good I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
I have one more question, and that is if you had
a superpower, any superpower,whatever superpower you'd like
to choose, what would it be?
You can have it for 24 hours,you can use it personally or
professionally, or both, and whywould it be your choice?
Speaker 3 (58:59):
I think mind reading.
Um, because I want to.
I want to test my accuracy, butI want to be able to turn it on
and off, so I want you know, II think that I'm good at reading
people, so I would want to goall natural, read a situation
and then turn on the mind readerto know was I right?
Did I nail it?
Speaker 2 (59:24):
I love that.
That is so funny.
You're going to test yourself.
You're not just going to take afreebie, you're going to test
yourself.
So I love it.
Thank you, jessica, it has beenan absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Thank you so very much.
I hope you have a fabulous day.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
Thank you, I got my pockets full of dreams and
they're busting at the seams,going boom, boom, boom to my own
(01:00:01):
song.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Find Stacked Keys Podcast on Spotify, soundcloud
and iTunes or anywhere you getyour favorite podcast listen.
You'll laugh out loud, you'llcry a little, you'll cry a
little, you'll find yourselfencouraged.
Join us for casual conversationthat leads itself, based on
where we take it, from family tophilosophy, to work, to meal
(01:00:24):
prep, to beautifully survivinglife.
And hey, if I could ask a bigfavor of you, go to iTunes and
give us a five rating.
The more people who rate us,the more we get this podcast out
there.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
All my dreams.
Like an old song Everythingwill be alright.
Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
When I let myself Go with the night.
Gotta stomp to my own drum.
Stomp to my own song.
Stomp hey.
Gonna put all my boots in theroom.
Gotta stomp to my own drum.
Stomp to my own zone Stomp hey.
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Ooh, ooh, ooh.
Gonna sing it out loud and sayit real proud.
Nobody's gonna step on my cloud, cause I stomp, stomp To the
beat of my big drum.
I got a big drum.
Whatever you do, it ain'tnothing on me, cause I'momp
stomp to the beat of my big drum.
I got a big drum.
Whatever you do, it ain'tnothing on me, cause I'm doing
my thing and I got the key.
Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
Stomp to my own drum.
We'll see you next time.
(01:02:27):
Bye.
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