#12 Ruan Willow – Exploring Female Sexuality, Finding the Clitoris, Erotic Novels, Sex Toys, Orgasm, Kink, & Relationships Part 1 - STAG

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
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(00:24):
Thanks for your support. Now here's the interview ruin.
Let's just go for this. Thank you so much for taking the
time to speak with me today. One thing we did not talk about
is how much time you are willingto invest tonight in this

(00:44):
conversation and what the parameters of that might be.
So if, if we, I guess we'll justvibe it out and if there's a no
fly zone, you just call it out as we're going.
Is that fair? I'm pretty open and flexible.
Yeah, yeah. OK.
So how about we start with like how we always start the show and

(01:08):
just maybe tell everybody who you are a little bit about
yourself and kind of what circumstances, events and
alignment of the moon, stars andthe planets have brought you to
this moment here in time. Well, yes, my name is Ruin
Willow and I'm doing everything I never thought I'd be doing,

(01:31):
which is totally wonderful. I am a writer, I'm an author.
I write spicy stuff. I write erotic romance and
topics on sexuality. I'm a podcaster.
I have a podcast that has been around for about four years, a
little over 4 years, and it's doing amazing.

(01:52):
And also an audio book narrator.So I do that.
And I also am a Blogger, so I doall these different things and
they're all kind of tied into sexual health, sexuality, sexual
Wellness, intimacy, pleasure, enjoyment, relationships,

(02:13):
relating with an intimate partner, that kind of stuff.
So that's all I focus on. And I love, love, love to focus
on. A lot of my writing is focused
on female pleasure focused and the amazing array that is being
a woman in her sexual awareness,in her liberation and her
freedom enjoyment. So I guess in a nutshell, if you

(02:36):
want a short little answer, that's that's what I do.
That's amazing. So you, you, you got a lot on
your plate. You do a lot.
I do and I, I constantly look atwhat I'm doing and I never ever
in my life would have thought I was doing audio stuff right.
And I've done well over 90 booksnow.
I've narrated for myself and forother authors and I've done over

(02:59):
600 podcast episodes, which really blows my mind that I have
done that much audio and it's just, it's amazing.
It just keeps growing and I'm learning so much and it's
completely changed my life. That's super awesome.
And I mean, like there's so manythreads I want to pull here and
there's, I guess my, my initial interest is in, you know, of all

(03:24):
the things that you've just mentioned, which, which one of
those is your favorite? Like what is it that you enjoy
doing the most out of all of it?If you had to.
Choose one. It is very hard to choose.
I like to create. So, you know, I, I've one of
those people that have been writing since I was a young
child, Like I was one of those little kids that would pull out
a notebook and like write a story, right?

(03:45):
And my nose was always in a book.
I wanted to I I consumed books like they were air and I've
written throughout my life, but I've taken a lot of breaks and
back in about, oh, I don't know,maybe 2016 I started writing
romance and I really enjoyed that.
I wrote some some why a contemporary romance, which is
basically, you know, teenagers and young love.

(04:09):
And I started to feel like I really wanted to have the full
story, you know, and I wanted towrite adults about adult
relationships in adult relationships have sex and I
wanted the full story, right, Like I want to know the full
story. I want the open door.
I don't want this door shut and I only get a partial story.
I personally believe that you can learn a lot about someone

(04:29):
when they are in their most intimate moments and that goes
with characters as well. So for me, I want to know the
full story. And so I started really writing
romance that had sex in it and sexuality, open door topics and,
you know, scenes in those books because to me that's more real
to life. To me, the most important things
to write about in the world are love, relationships and sex.

(04:51):
And so I guess first and foremost, I love to write.
So I really consider myself to be a writer and author as the
top thing and all the other things kind of support that kind
of come around that. But in in if I were to pick one,
it would be a writer and author.And I've written many, many
books, many stories. And I also write non fiction.
So I don't only write sexy stuff.

(05:13):
I write other things as well. Fair enough.
What I mean, the the relationship aspect in wanting
to uncover more of the human condition and the relationships
that are more intimate and private is very clearly noted in
the sexual expressions and the sexuality that you explore.
But it what, what is it about that that kind of anchors you in

(05:34):
that world? Because you seem to have some
kind of a like a pull towards that, correct.
A lot of what you do right now is in the realm of that.
What, what is it about that expression of sexuality,
especially from a female perspective, that drove you to
kind of really just put it out in the forefront as something

(05:57):
that you that you kind of identify with?
Like many women, I feel like throughout my life I have felt
kind of suppressed and oppressedwith my sexuality.
Like, you know, for many years Ididn't feel like I could explore
it. I didn't feel safe.
I felt shame. I felt like, oh, that's bad, I
shouldn't do that. You know, I had a lot of
teachings and pressures in my life and that prevented me from

(06:20):
exploring that area of my life. And now that I'm in my midlife,
I kind of don't care. And I am in doing what I want
and I'm enjoying it and it's exploding for me.
So for me, I kind of feel like I'm kind of kind of young in my
sexuality, if that makes sense, because I was so suppressed and
oppressed for so many years. I feel like maybe maybe what

(06:43):
other people felt when they wereyounger.
And so for me, it's just on fire.
It's passionate, it's amazing, it's exploding, it's incredible.
All the things I'm finding out about myself, my body and
sexuality. It's just like this whole
amazing blossoming world that's just wonderful.
And, you know, and I think part of a experience for a lot of
women is they feel like they're not supposed to do this.

(07:05):
So they're not supposed to enjoysex yet their partners obviously
want them to have sex with them,right?
So there's just weird pressure for a lot of women.
And, and, and I don't think it is as common with men as it is
with women to feel these kinds of things.
And so I feel like we're like behind, like, and I think it
causes a lot of friction betweenthe sexes, honestly.

(07:25):
Right. And, and I think that's, that's
something that I really wanted to explore with you in doing
this, having this conversation with you is the way that it
relates to men, right? Because I want them to hear this
side of it, right? Because it's, it's like where
the dudes are. It's, it's a lot of Dicks and
fart jokes and, and like scorekeeping on, you know, the

(07:46):
notches in the belt and all of that.
And then I don't know about other dudes, but for me, when I
got older, like I hit a certain point and it was, it wasn't even
my age. It was an event that happened
that made me realize like, you know, I lost somebody that I
really cared about. And it was like, wow, I'm just
kind of fucking around a lot. And like, this doesn't actually
mean anything. And the things that are
important to me as a human and amale, they're not even aligned

(08:11):
with the stuff that my friends are aligned with for the most
part. And I see some of them come
around to like the family side and the provider and the
protector role. And so I want to understand from
your perspective how much of what you were experiencing
because it's it's, it's notable,it's palpable.
And as a male, I see it even. And how much of that is?

(08:37):
If. Would you say that it's like
male driven, like suppression ofsexuality?
Because it's to add to that, it's like dudes cannot pretend
that like chicks don't like fartand burp.
You know what I mean? Like not to just like level this
and kill all the boners that were just like happening right
now, but like it's like we, we don't, we know that like chicks

(09:00):
take dumps. We know that like, you know,
chicks sweat. We know that like, we know all
of that because they're human too, Like you, you guys are
human too, obviously, right? And I think that once you get
past the roles and the, the, thegender division and, and it's a
lot of, it's just so made-up. And it even even from a
conservative front, it's so made-up.

(09:21):
And oh, for sure. So I, I want to explore that
with you. So I guess if there's kind of
not a question mark there, but maybe you can, you can take it
from there and explore a little bit.
I think that some women feel like they can't explore their
sexuality like they're not supposed to, Like it's not for

(09:42):
them, like they feel like it. You know, I think that that
maybe if men treat women more like a human and like you said,
yes, they take a jump, you know,they they can orgasm, you know,
and make it be normal and not weird and be like, you know,
you're just like me. And, and I think one thing too,
a lot of women feel like they need to be for the man's

(10:08):
pleasure rather than the other way around.
And I think the best way to get a lot of women out of their
shells sexually is to prioritizeher pleasure.
If you make her come first, if you make it so important, your
obsession, your passion to make her climax, she is going to see
that and it's going to make a huge difference.

(10:29):
She's going to realize, oh, oh, he's OK.
If I'm a human, he's OK, maybe he even likes us.
He likes to make me climax. He thinks that's a priority, you
know. And, and so I always think in
this and most of my characters are this way in my books too,
the male character generally makes her climax 1st and is very

(10:51):
interested in that and is because a lot of women feel a
lot of shame. And if you make her not feel
gross, if you make her not feel icky in any way, if you support
her and everything is wonderful,you are going to have such a
better sex life. I can, you know, prioritize her.
And The thing is, too, a lot of women and young girls are not

(11:12):
encouraged to explore their sexuality.
They're shut down. I was shut down.
Like, I, I always tell this story on my podcast.
I remember this story and I was like in 4th grade, right?
I was so excited. I had been in my room and I had
been touching myself. I was so excited and I was like,
Oh my gosh. I ran to my mom and I was, I was

(11:35):
genuinely excited. Mom, when I touch between my
legs, it feels really good. She looked at me and she said
you shouldn't be doing that. It, it colored my sexuality for
literal, literally years becauseI was shut down and shamed like,
oh, that was bad. I shouldn't have done that.

(11:57):
Whereas a lot of people treat itdifferently for young boys.
Like they make jokes. Oh, it's in the shower.
Ha ha, ha, ha, what's he doing in there?
And it's like a joke. Women don't get that.
They get the shame. They get that.
Right. And generally speaking, not to
cut you off, but it. Oh no, go ahead.
In just nudity in general, right?
And we see this in in film all the time, right?

(12:20):
And it's with women it's it's, it's beauty and oppression.
And with men it's humor and power.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, for sure.
I just interviewed a dude on my podcast and he is a
photographer, a nude photographer.
But he does it in the sensual way.
It's not sexuality. And we were talking about how a
lot of people, especially in America, cannot separate nudity

(12:42):
from sexuality. Like being nude is automatically
assumed as being sexual. And it's not true, you know?
And I like the, I like the attitude of a lot of the
European countries where they have nude beaches and stuff and
it's just natural. It's just okay, you know, that's
your body, okay, you know, okay.But here it's like so different
and there's so much more shame. And so as, yeah, it's a total

(13:03):
different experience. But I think that that's part of
our problem. We can't seem to separate nudity
from sexuality. They can be separate and they
they they don't have to be tied together every time.
Yeah, it it definitely is probable that there's this like
a massive entanglement and there's no, we can't seem to to
read or or find the lines between of separation between

(13:27):
that which is culturally acceptable, culturally not
acceptable and that which is like state of nature
acceptability, right. Right.
So how much of the the suppression of sexuality and
maybe the oppression of sexuality for females would you
say comes from females? I think it comes from a lot of

(13:50):
places and this is part of the problem.
I think it comes from other females.
I think it comes from males. I think it comes from our
culture. It comes from religion, it comes
from our education. Look at our sex Ed, you know,
and I always talk about this on my podcast.
You know, the parts that were talked about, people talked
about a penis, right? They talked about an erection
for girls. They never used the word
clitoris. They never used the word.

(14:11):
They didn't even use our body part.
A real legit ananovy. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't remember that being a thing.
Yeah. No, it was talked about, you
know, prevention of prevention of diseases and menstruation
period then, then that was it, right?
I mean that that sends an impressive message in itself,

(14:32):
right? That it does.
Male is more important in that sense.
Yes, yes. Yeah, it's fascinating.
I never thought about that. Yeah, and and you know, I went
most of my life not even knowingthe word clitoris.
And it's a body part. It's my legit body part.
I've talked with a lot of peopletoo, who, you know, they have

(14:53):
these models, like say you go toa doctor, they have these models
and they don't even have the body parts on the model.
It's not even an it's not even anatomically correct for a
female, but it is for a male. Why is that?
Why is our body part secret and treated like a dirty word?
It's a body part no different than a finger or your forehead.

(15:13):
You know, like, it's just. And so this also implies shame.
I'm not supposed to know that word.
I'm not supposed to say that word.
I'm not supposed to think about that word.
Oh, and then I'm not supposed totouch it either.
Then you get with a partner who wants to explore sexuality with
you, and you've got all these roadblocks and you're like, wait
a minute, he wants me to do these things.

(15:34):
See the disconnect? Right, right.
That's it's, it's fascinating tounderstand that, especially with
the when we bring it back down to like sex Ed and how that that
builds into right or even childhood from like a female's

(15:55):
perspective where you know, immediately you're met with
shame for exploration and, and with with dudes.
It really is you. I think you nailed it.
It really is not the same even younger ages and and I think
that that seems to be something that is constantly being
highlighted now. And what do you think?

(16:18):
Do you think there's any conversations that are being
that are actually productive in in the world right now that are
helping to kind of emerge this even more outside of like the
feminist movements? I do because I interview so many
people and I'm in that space. I see a lot of people doing
that. But, you know, and I think part
of the problem is too, especially some older women,
they're more they shut down morequickly.

(16:40):
Like a lot of them might be afraid of trying a sex toy or,
you know, they think it's like taboo or, you know, and really
it's just a tool. Like you don't make a, you don't
make a table with your bare hands, right?
You use tools. You know these are.
Just I mean there was a whole movie like franchise about a
dude fucking a pie like. And that wasn't a problem.
Right. And so we go back to like, if

(17:02):
it's comedic, it's like, not a problem.
But you can't make pussy funny for a lack of better words,
right? Right, right.
Yeah. Nobody goes there.
Nobody goes there. And and I think it's really sad.
And and then the thing that I think is the worst, the part
that bugs me the most is that there's all these women out
there who don't understand what their bodies can do.

(17:23):
They don't, they may not even beclimaxing.
They are not multiple orgasming.They are missing out on so much
because of all of this pressure and oppression and suppression
is so it's just, Oh, no, I mean,we're humans.
Why can't we just be humans In in we were meant we weren't
given these organs and these sensations for no reason.

(17:44):
We were meant to enjoy sex. It's like I always talk about
how, you know, we touch a wall and we would touch it's soft,
right? It's, you know, or right now I'm
touching a soft wall because I'min my sound room and it's foam.
So, you know that sensation is OK in the culture to touch
something soft. Any sensations down in the
genitals all of a sudden? Oh no, Oh no, that's no you.

(18:05):
That's a different bodily sensation.
Why are people treating it differently?
It's still a bodily sensation. Yeah.
Do you think that this is, I mean, this has a lot to do.
Do you express this a lot in in your your writing?
I do. I really, I really like to focus
on female pleasure in my writingbecause it's not in our culture.

(18:28):
And I actually did a a series onmy podcast recently called The
Healing Power of Smut, because so many women I.
Listen to it. Actually, I did.
I did 7 and seven installments now of that and talked to seven
different people. Four were women, three were they
were men and it was just amazingthe different.

(18:49):
Did you listen to all them or just one or two?
I just your last one, yeah. OK, yeah, yeah, it.
And it's amazing to me to talk to all the different
perspectives that people had andhow it changed our lives.
Some people were writers of it, some people's were readers of it
and how it released them, how ithelped them explore, help them
release shame. And even the men, there were men

(19:11):
that that said the same thing. And it just feel like there
isn't enough talk about female pleasure.
Oh, where was my .0? Yes.
Saying that women love to to read this and the reason they
love to read it is because it's a safe place to enjoy thoughts
about sex. In reading a story, listening to
something, there's no pressure. It's also a way to work through

(19:34):
maybe trauma or ideas of that's a taboo fantasy.
I should I have that right? Like that's a dark fantasy and I
think it helps women. And then I'm not just going to
focus to some of them work through those thoughts and
fantasies and be like they're I'm not alone.
I'm this is a lot of other people that have the same exact

(19:55):
fantasy. So it helps them release shame.
It helps them work through it. It helps them work through
trauma. It helps them like open them up
and be like wow, it's a safe place to enjoy and think about
it. Yeah, I imagine you have male
listeners and readers as well, correct?
I do, I do and every it's reallyweird because every platform is

(20:18):
different. Like for instance, on Spotify,
it's largely men, but you go to some other platforms and it's
largely women. It's so weird that in platforms
are different based on the the gender of people that listen to
me. It blows my mind.
I think, you know, like, that's so bizarre.
Yeah, what do you think the men who are listening to your

(20:38):
podcasts or reading your books are are looking to explore?
A lot of them are looking to enjoy, to explore their own
sexuality. They sometimes are in oppressive
relationships themselves. They're sometimes in sexless
relationships. Sometimes they just enjoy
reading a story with sex in it Because men, you know, this is

(20:59):
the other thing that I think is a fallacy.
I got to say this. So many people in our culture
think that men like sex better than women.
This is not true. The reason it is, is because a
lot of women feel shame. But someone like me, I love sex.
I think sex is wonderful and I know a lot of women like me.
So it's a fallacy to think that men like sex better than women.

(21:20):
That's not true. I think that the people who have
released the the women who have released the shame and stuff
from our culture and have embraced their sexuality, they
can express and and live the reality of they like sex as much
as men. Yeah, I think a lot of this
stuff I, I know that we're like super generalizing most of what
we're talking about and I think that's it's, it's fine.

(21:43):
You know what I mean? No, I, I'm OK with it because
it's, it's so hard to deconstruct this stuff and
really get like into the, the weeds of things.
And because you're, you have to like peel back so many layers to
get to a resolve on one thing. And it's only a tiny, tiny grain

(22:03):
of sand on a beach. You know, when it comes to this
topic, and especially when it comes to the bridging the topic
between males and females. And I, to your point, I'm just
want to like, you know, highlight that like it, it seems
to be this like the, the, the Johnny Cochran defense, right,
where it's like, if the glove don't fit, you must acquit.
And that's how like those littlelike those sayings kind of get

(22:25):
caught in the minds of the culture.
And that's like guys like the culture.
And then it's like all women don't like, or men like sex more
than women. And it's like, I've never met a
female who didn't like sex more than like some of the dudes that
I know. Like it does go both ways.
And it still blows my mind that there is this oppressive culture

(22:46):
or understanding or, or spirit of, you know, some like vision
of purity because for women froma male's perspective, because
it, it strictly comes from like the male end of things, right.
And it's, it's this bizarre thing where most dudes, not all
dudes, most not progressive dudes tend to put women on a pet

(23:11):
on this like gargantuous pedestal where they become
almost like a goddess. And then they spend the entire
fucking lives trying to knock that damn thing down.
And then when, and then when they they finally level the
playing field, they realize thatthe other person is human and
shit goes awry and it's the funniest shit in the world.
It's, it's like really sad. It is.

(23:32):
It is. He's just as human as he is.
Exactly. I know exactly what you're
saying and it's so true. Yeah.
And it like the other part of that too is that the the
increasing like in cell like culture happening and that's not
even that's new, that's newer for the US specifically, right.
But like somewhere like, you know, China, it's it's been a

(23:55):
prevalent thing for a while. And it's I don't like that we
are both increasingly becoming more progressive in in like in
equalizing our understanding of,you know, male and female
dynamics And and more specifically, like raising up
and opening the doors for femaleprogression, while

(24:16):
simultaneously there are due to are increasingly becoming like,
you know, gave people. Right, right.
I mean, I think the, the, the bottom line we need to really
nail into people's brains is that we're all human.
And yeah, you know, and I, I just think it's such BS The, the
whole thing about how women onlylike the top percentage of men,

(24:39):
that's just BS. But people are believing it, and
that's horrible. I I don't know how we stop that.
You know, like if you assume that no one's going to like you,
you're not. You're already setting yourself
up for failure. Yeah, I, I have kind of like a
grim view on, on the way that weconnect with relationships.
And it, it just sounds grim and it's not supposed to be.

(25:03):
And it's, I think that there's alot of trappings of the mind in,
in these spaces and in most spaces.
And so it's like, I mean, there's 8, what, 8 billion
people in the world, right? It's romantic to think that you
found your soul mate in the samecity that you were born in, and
you never. Left and.
And all of that. It's romantic, right?

(25:24):
But. Like 8 billion people, chances
are, like there's, there's more,there's multiple compatibility
there. You're going to find somebody
else. Everyone.
I hate the idea that everyone's replaceable, but indeed everyone
is indeed replaceable. Right and.
And our interactions are what wemake of them.
And it's it, it's increasingly interesting to me why some

(25:46):
people are choosing to not interact with people, not
explore. And, and then on your front,
your efforts are to encourage people to interact, to explore
and especially with themselves. And what you said about earlier
that you, you mentioned this approach to exploring female
sexuality for males and females.And it was like, it was the

(26:08):
equivalent of kind of like, you have to love yourself first
before you can love another human being, one of those
things. And I thought that was super
fascinating. Do you think that that's the
like, the equalizer for like, women coming into like a more
mature understanding of themselves?

(26:29):
Yeah, I, I really, I, I always encourage women and to, to
actually explore their, their bodies on their own, like before
they eat. Because.
And I think this goes back to how we're raised and the, you
know, the whole thing of, you know, having sex with a pie or,
or spending extra time in the shower.

(26:50):
And that's OK from, for boys andnot for girls.
We're not encouraged to play. We're not encouraged to explore
that side of ourselves. And so if you're a female that
has experienced that, take this time, get yourself some sex
toys, spend a lot of time on your own.
Do you, do you probably they probably don't even know what
feels good to them. So how can they communicate that

(27:12):
to a partner if they don't even know if they like strong
pressure, soft pressure, like itin this spot and not that spot
and they, you know, like they can't even communicate it.
So here we have these, these a lot of men are wanting to know,
what should I do? I want to turn you on.
I want to make you cum. What can I do?
The women are afraid to talk about it.
And some of them don't even knowwhat they're, what they could

(27:35):
even say because they don't knowtheir bodies, they don't even
understand themselves. And they're afraid to share
their fantasies. And I think that's one thing,
that's a huge thing. A lot of people are very afraid
to share their fantasies. And if they don't feel safe,
they're not going to do it. Right.
And so I guess how would you, I mean, have you had a situation

(27:56):
where, you know, I'm, I'm sure happens all the time, but where
you had a partner perhaps and you tried to introduce toys or
something and it was kind of weird.
How do you, how do you have thatconversation?
How do you even start to do that?
How? How would you, what would you
suggest for a dude out there listening that like, hey, this

(28:17):
is how you should approach this?I think that one thing is to.
I think that this this might be kind of offensive to some men
to, to think that their penis isall that OK.
A lot of women actually boards towards the 90.
I don't know 95th percent, I don't know what the exact things

(28:38):
are of women come from clitoral stimulation, not penetration,
not from G spot stimulation. So what makes men come?
Penetration is not what makes women come.
Women need clitoral stimulation to come.
So there's a disconnect there. And so if, if, if men think that

(29:00):
sex is only insertion, you she'salready out.
She's already out of the picture.
She's not even in it anymore, right?
You have to include the clicks. If you do not, she likely is not
going to come. I'm I, I don't know the exact
percentage, but I'm thinking it's like 95 to 98% of women
need clitoral stimulation. And the other problem is people

(29:22):
don't understand the anatomy. They don't understand what it
even looks like, right? Like, and myself, I didn't even
know what the clitoris organ looked like until I was in my
40s. I didn't even know.
Like it was never even shown to me.
It's actually almost as large asa penis.
It's mostly internal, but the most sensitive part is the outer

(29:43):
external part that is very small, the clit head, which is
very analogous to the penis head.
I'm learning so much right now. I mean, it kind of looks like an
it kind of looks like weirdly like an octopus.
OK, so kind of like a wishbone, but like a double wishbone.
And this is what I think is fascinating.
And I think a lot of people don't understand this.

(30:03):
And when I found this out, because I've interviewed a lot
of sexologists, I might not be answering your question, but
I'll come back to it. I'm just like, I'm like on this,
I got to say. Yeah, after, after the the clit.
The clit is like a penis. I'm never having sex again so
it's fine. No, it's erect.
I'm just kidding. I totally.
Understand. But The thing is, it's erectile
tissue, just like the penis, andpeople, a lot of people don't

(30:24):
understand. Some dudes out there who are
going to take that as it's a penis and it just, it cracks me
up. All right, go ahead.
Sorry, I'm sorry. But it it is the reality.
It's it's many of them are as large as a penis.
It's just inside her body. And so that's why there's AG
spot because part of that is internal.
And so there are these lobes andit kind of looks like a double

(30:46):
wishbone sort of. And they, they have like these
arms that stretch down inside her.
And the reason women can have multiple orgasms is because all
those different compartments fill up with blood in the
erection, the clit erection. And This is why you can have
multiple orgasms because there'smultiple places of blood fills
up. Like for a man, it's just one,

(31:06):
it's the column, it's a penis. That's it.
And it's done. And someone can have multiple
orgasms. But for women, This is why we
can have so many because there'sso many compartments and they
can fill. And this is amazing to me.
The, the I listened to this one podcast, this woman who's a
sexologist and she said the female clitoral complex 10

(31:29):
circuit. Oh, I'm trying, I'm trying to
remote it. It's 238 times in a day.
Holy cow. Now I have reached probably
around 65 myself, but I haven't really tried to go higher.
I have talked to women who have done 100 in a day and this is
amazing, right? Like that.
You can climax this many times and they're not all the same

(31:50):
strength. Some of them are more mild, some
of them are stronger, some of them are full body.
There's a gradient that you can have, and This is why women can
climax multiple times because ofour complex and there's so many.
None of this is taught, right? People know this.
People come on podcasts, my podcasts, and talk about this
stuff, but it's not widely distributed.

(32:13):
People don't know. Yeah, I mean, this is like
there's so much fascinating information that I'm sure that
like you just schooled a lot of people in, in like 2 minutes on,
on just this alone. And it's, I mean it because it,
it is true. It's like if we just go back to

(32:33):
the sex Ed conversation, it's like we didn't even acknowledge
the clitoris, right? And I mean that, that amazing
sound bite of yours earlier is like, you have to include the
clitoris, like, right? If, if, if we want it, we were
not even speaking the same language to begin with with our,
with our body parts. And, and it's like, we have to

(32:54):
be able to at least like understand the lexicon here and,
and get a blueprint of what's happening so that we can get to
a place of like bridging that gap, right?
And I think. That it's.
Encouraging when when somebody breaks it down like that.
And yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
I was just going to say that this really blew my mind even

(33:15):
though I knew all this stuff. Recently I was listening to a
podcast of a doctor and he studies female sexuality and
they have, they have documented this, that you know how men have
multiple erections throughout the night and they wake up with
a morning wood. This same phenomena happens to
women with a clitoris, only we don't know it because you can't

(33:35):
see it. It's inside our body.
So this is this also proves thatwe're really not that different.
It's just a presentation and thearousal potential, the
stimulation potential is very, very different.
And so if you're not paying attention to her clit, you are

(33:57):
not likely actually making her climax.
She might be faking. And a lot of women feel like
they have to fake. Why?
Because they want to feed their man's ego.
They want, they want their man to be satisfied.
They want him to be like, oh, it's the best sex ever.
But often she gets left and think, I cannot tell you how
many people I've talked to that women that they'll they'll have

(34:19):
sex with their husband or their befriend and then they'll go and
have use sex toys because they didn't climax during sex.
Like this should not be happening, right?
Right. And then there's, I guess
there's a, there's another part of this too, right?
Where how, what if like some people are just like not

(34:40):
sexually compatible even though that they're like true
romantically compatible? True, very true.
Right. And so then in those situations,
how do you even is it like more play time?
Is it like it? What?
What is the? What is the cure there or the
fix? I mean, yeah, the fix might be,
you know, I think the fix might be you need to be OK with your

(35:02):
partner going and doing something without you, like
perhaps watching porn or using asex toy.
The problem, the thing I, I personally believe that, you
know, religion aside, I really do feel like people should have
sex before they get married because for that very reason,
you don't know if you're sexually compatible.
The other issue though, throughout time, our fantasies,

(35:23):
our sex lives, our drives, what turns us on will change.
If you can change with your partner, if you can modify and
grow with your partner even as they change, you are going to
have success. If you shut down and cannot grow
or adapt with your partner, likely you're not going to have
success in your relationship. You bring up a massive point

(35:47):
because people are not static and and it's not and I've never.
I'm really glad you brought thisup because I've never in my life
have thought about the idea thatthe the fluid, dynamic nature of
human beings throughout their lives also applies to their
sexual encounters and the way that they explore and engage

(36:09):
sexuality. I've never even thought about
that until right now. A.
Million percent you are right, but people don't think about
this. They don't understand this.
And this is, I think this is a huge reason why, why a lot of
divorces happen because people aren't open to, to, to modifying
to being fluid with their partner.
And we're seem to be OK with it or like, oh, oh, now no, oh, OK,

(36:30):
all of a sudden you're into golf.
OK, go play golf. OK, honey, bye bye now.
And we'll play with that. But when it comes to sexuality,
we can't. A lot of people can't seem to do
that. I mean, it's, it's hard because
there's so many types of people out there, right?
So it's hard to kind of point a single kind of like example
here. And we'll, I mean there's the

(36:51):
the hyper conservative religioustypes, you know, they live by a
code and it is what it is. We're not talking to those
people, obviously. And then there's there's people
outside of that who are maybe, you know, interested in
exploring something new but don't know how to approach it.
And then maybe some who are, youknow, can't even find the
clitoris first, that we're not even getting there yet.

(37:13):
And those guys, those guys are listening.
They're like, hell yeah. We just learned a shit ton.
I'm going to figure this one out.
Maybe go to explore. I mean, would you encourage
dudes to go what, what, Like what, what resources would you
encourage dudes to go find or look at to kind of understand
female sexuality or how would they approach that conversation?
We'll start there and then we'llmove from there.

(37:35):
I think, you know, podcasts are a huge place for that.
I think that's a great place. And and I think listen to an
erotic romance audio book, read a book, you know, you can see
what interests them, you know, and there's so many different
things you could do. And I think that some women are
open to porn, some are not. But there's also softcore porn

(37:56):
or porn that is more like ethically made that women might
be more interested in if you could.
The thing I think is really great is say, say, say you want
to introduce an idea of a kinky thing with your partner, right?
But you don't want to look at them be like, Hey, will you tie
me up and, and, and, you know, put a ball gig on me?
It's really hard to say to your partner, right?

(38:18):
But if you say, hey, what if we read this book together or we
listen to this audio book? And then you just casually said,
what did you think of that? It is an, it is an introduction.
You're getting their assessment.It's a slow introduction.
It's not direct. It's a what do you think about
that? It opens the discussion without

(38:38):
putting somebody on the spot andthey think that that is huge.
I think that people can also, I think that if, if, if men learn
more about the female body, likethe some of the things I said,
they maybe will understand it better and realize that that we
really aren't that different. Our organs really aren't that

(38:58):
different. They actually start out with the
same, to be honest, before we differentiate.
When you're a fetus, they actually start out the same and
they're actually all kind of like the female.
And the only thing that makes them grow into a penis is the
introduction of hormones, right,Right.
So this is how it differentiates.
I think the first thing you haveto accept when you said earlier
that people were going to be offended by the fact that the

(39:19):
clit is like a penis, they need to get over that.
They need to get over this. Well, anatomy question this,
this thought and realize that that she is just a human just
like he is, and that that is herbody part and that is actually
erectile tissue. It's just you can't see it
because it's inside her body. This also makes it harder to

(39:41):
access, right? So you need to find out what
gets her off. Since it's in her body, it's
harder to arouse until she understands it, until you
understand it. You know, I have this this toy
that I think it's just OK, this is this is this, this blew my
mind. OK, I have like probably 7080
sex toys. I've tried them all.

(40:01):
They're all amazing in differentway.
There's this one called the Zoomio, and it's kind of like a
pen, OK? It looks like a big pen and
that's really targeted vibrations.
Ultrasonic, I don't know what you call it vibrations or
motions at the tip of it and it's so pinpoint that you can

(40:23):
put it in different spots and, and I had a discussion this was
a fabulous interview I had with a woman who is a a doctor and
she teaches about intimacy and sexuality.
We talked about how this is how finite you can get with the
clit. You can actually think of it as
a face of a clock, and if you take a toy like this that is
very pinpointed, you can find spot on the clit, even as small

(40:47):
as it is, that is the strongest for her.
Interesting. Find out I mean, it's like a
face of a clock, you know, I'll,I'll share mine.
Mine's the right side. The right side of my clit is
much stronger than the other stage right, stage right.
And, and we talked about this and she knows about this too.
And, and it's part of her study.And the fact is study that that

(41:08):
this is something most people donot even remotely understand
that as small as the clit is now, and I'm going to explain
this to the, the external head of the clit can be anywhere from
the size of a grain of rice up to a kernel of corn.
That's pretty small, right? Right.
It's hard to find. This is why it's when people
talk about it being hard to find.
But if you watch her reaction when you touch all around there,

(41:31):
you're going to know when you hit it and when you don't.
Yeah, and now like there's so many and it's it's it's
interesting because like there'swomen who still haven't.
You said you didn't really emerge into your sexuality until
about 40, right. So I mean, that poses right.

(41:53):
That's. A problem.
Yeah, right. Because now we're like more
stable relationships aren't evenhappening until older age and
it's multiple partners are less like I would, I would imagine
I'm not sure that this is the truth, right?
But I would imagine that there'snot enough time to fully explore
yourself with another human being.

(42:14):
If you're if if you're exploringwith multiple partners, maybe if
you have repeat customers, maybemaybe that'll work right.
But if? She understands her body.
I think if she understands her body and can communicate that
and doesn't feel shame about communicating it, it the you can
communicate that to any partner but she has to understand her

(42:35):
body. Like I didn't understand my
body. Like I didn't even really.
I went a lot of chunk of my lifenot even understanding what it
felt like to climax like. Right.
I didn't even understand it like.
Even as a dude, though, you know, that's like, I, I, when I
was sleeping with multiple people or just, you know, and

(42:56):
like it, it, it was never, it was just a thing to do and it
became a vain act and there was no time to kind of like
understand, like this is what I like.
And I think that's what I was trying to come to with that,
like that statement, right? And it was like, it has less to
do with like the, the, the female side of that because that
I can't, I can't even talk aboutthat, right, because I don't

(43:17):
have an understanding of that. But from a perspective, it's
like even trying to to explore, you know, each other's bodies as
an intimate setting. There's only so much depth in
that short period of time and toengage in and, and it's almost
like not worth it. There's no incentive to really,

(43:39):
like, explore some with somebodyif I know they're going to be
gone tomorrow. Right.
Well, that's true. Yeah, I can understand that.
Yeah. And so with women, I guess my
question is, like, would it be the same?
And then it's like, if women already are not exploring
themselves, and then you have a situation where, like sexuality

(44:00):
isn't really emerging maturely until later, then what happens
when everybody realizes shit? I like different things.
Right. This is a problem.
And This is why I This is why the way we raise people and our
culture is is is is messed up. I don't know if I can swear.

(44:22):
I was about to swear but. Oh yeah, all of it's good, yeah.
It's fucked up the way we raise people is fucked up because
women and and and I talked to somany people because I am, you
know, I am in midlife and I talked to so many women that
come into their sexuality in midlife.
They finally can shed that shamethat finally can focus on

(44:42):
themselves. They finally can be like, oh,
oh, I know how to, I can exploremy own sexuality and they shed
this stuff. And so there is a huge
disconnect between that because and I and I, my hope is always
that younger women today are better than I was back then.
And I don't know if that's true or not, but I really hope it is.

(45:05):
But like you're saying, if if you it's kind of shallow sex, if
you just have sex and then you move on, right?
You know, and, and I think, and I often think, you know, I mean,
people have done studies on this.
Generally in hookups, women do not climax.
It is very low that women climaxin this in the hookups.
Why, Why does it even happen then?

(45:25):
Does it make them feel better? It makes them feel maybe that
makes them feel affirmed. Maybe it makes them feel sexy.
What about it's done in different ways?
How about he, he compliments her.
How about he maybe makes her feel sexy or loved in a
different way than the hookup. And so this is where everything
is just, it's, it's a huge disconnect and it's messed up.

(45:47):
But I, I just hold hope that younger people are not like I
was, you know, like, like I just, I just wish this for young
women. And, and I've talked to a few
enlightened people. Like I talked to one woman who
her mom gave her a vibrator whenshe was in high school to, to
help her teach her about her body.
I'm like, that is that is the way it should be.

(46:10):
You know why what you know learn.
And she said to her, she said, learn your body before you go
with any partner, learn your body.
Takes a certain type of like person.
Or a parent. Right.
Because yes, I, I grew up in an environment like a household

(46:32):
where we just didn't talk about bodies and sex or any of that.
It was like really taboo. It was really taboo.
It was, it was shameful even forme as a dude, like it was
shameful. You weren't allowed to do
anything as far as like, or like, you know, even even if a
pair of tits came on that like on the screen, it was like cover

(46:52):
your eyes like, and you know, and it's like, it's weird.
Like, why is that so taboo even for dudes?
I don't know if other other maleI should I should ask the next
guy I talked to you because I I don't know that other males have
ever had a situation like that. I've don't remember talking with

(47:12):
friends ever in my life about, you know, weird type of
situations. And unless it was like, you
know, in the realm of like this might be gay, right?
This might be gay. And like, that's the only thing
dudes talk about when it comes to like sexuality.
It might be gay. Also, What's your body count?
Those are the two things. It wasn't gay.
Did you get laid? Right.
That's it. That's all dudes care about.

(47:35):
And it's, it's kind of annoying because it it, it kind of like
breaks it down into this like weird transactional thing that
doesn't mean anything. And it's just like stuff.
It's just stuff you collect. And then like for me that wasn't
enough because when there's nothing in this world that when
I die, I'm going to take with me.
So it's, it's, I don't need trophies for anything.

(47:57):
What do I need? Them for can you Can you imagine
if if what dude said to each other is so did you make her
climax? Did she come?
Yeah, no that. Instead of how many how many
have you had? Yeah, no, I would never hear
that from it. I can't think of a single friend
this. Is the problem.
This is why this is our culture and This is why it's a problem.

(48:17):
And I love hearing about other cultures.
I think it's like Amsterdam thatis the most progressive,
enlightened about sexuality, andI love hearing about what they
do. They're teaching kids about
consent and pleasure and relationships with the sex Ed,
right? And our country is trying to
take it away from kids. We're making it worse when it's
already shitty. Yeah, it's all of those things

(48:41):
are definitely an issue. And, and then we, we throw porn
into it, which is something you mentioned.
And so before we get into the porn aspect of this and the way
that that might interfere with our our relationships on the
sexual front and on the other side.
But did have you ever had a situation with like a exploring

(49:08):
tools in the bedroom and you're like that that offered a dude a
not like super? So like most dudes are insecure
about like toys in the bedroom. Was there one that was like this
one's cool, Didn't didn't intimidate them kind of
situation? Yes, I, I have had a kind of
both situations and I can tell you the shutdown ones, it just

(49:32):
was dead. Like the, you know, the ones who
are fascinated and want to explore.
I mean, wow, what an amazing thing to not feel threatened.
And I always compare it to like building building something you
you're not going to build a a table with your hands.
Why are tools seen as bad? Why do men, it's a good analogy,

(49:56):
right? Like why do some men get
intimidated by? Inadequacy is why, right?
But you know what? And I have to say the the G spot
for most women is about two to three inches inside her vagina.
Length does not matter, right? Especially when women can come

(50:16):
from clitoral external pressure alone and stimulation alone.
It it length does not matter. It does not matter.
And men and people, men get hungup on their cock and their cock
is all that and end all, be all.And so I think that they need to
get off of their egos and not beso fragile about it and be more

(50:37):
focused on what's bringing pleasure to both of us and not
thinking, oh, it's not my cock making her cum.
And you know what I mean? Like you have to realize that a
lot of women don't come from penetration.
Right. Well, I talk about this and I
don't know if I brought it up onthe podcast at all yet or if it

(50:59):
was awful off air or something. I don't remember, but I, I just
liken everything to like most dudes are just fucking Larping
everyone's live action role-playing.
And, and on top of that, it's, it's the, the, my biggest pet
peeve is that it, it usually thethings that make you a quote man

(51:20):
are the things that are like, they're not hard to obtain.
It's never like, oh, if you go to the moon, you're a man.
Right? So now my joke is like, yeah, my
joke is like my threshold for what a man is, is someone who's
gone to the moon, right? And it's like, because it's so
it's so ridiculous and unattainable that like there's
no men. And, and it's like on on the

(51:40):
more grounded level, it's like, well, you know, get laid and
then have a family. And that's like, well, those two
things don't require much of anything.
You, you're not even saying respectfully.
Get laid and be civil about it. Marry the person or have a civil
engagement that is appropriate and then have a child and raise

(52:00):
that child properly. And you know, and, and all the
things they're not even explaining that they're just
like eat a steak and you're a man.
It's like that isn't what the fuck does that mean?
Like none of those thresholds are even the right.
It's so stupid. And that extends into the
bedroom to your point about likethe cock thing.
And it's like, I've been there, dude.

(52:20):
I've had the list and I've done the bucket list and I've like
wanted to like get laid all overthe world and do all that stuff
and like, it just made me not feel fucking awesome about
myself. And.
Like at all. And it was just this
transactional thing that didn't go anywhere.
And it made me wonder like why dudes do it and why I was doing

(52:41):
it. And for myself, I know that I
was feeling a massive void in my, in myself because of a a
great devastating loss that I had.
And I was convinced that I was going to be single for my, the
rest of my life and I was going to, you know, just get laid and
like do that thing. And but it's so empty.
It is. Because even if I look at it

(53:01):
from your perspective, it's like, even if I just explored
sexuality in an honest way, not that I wasn't being honest, but
like in a way that was less superficial, right?
Because the way that you you explore sexuality and present
sexuality is more meaningful, purposeful and and has a

(53:23):
grounding to it where the way that most dudes and I was doing
it at one point in my life, my younger, you know, age is like,
it is more like the Charlie Sheen of it.
All right. It's just like the fucking
nonsense that comes with it and the notches on the belt and like
it's those two are very different.
Yeah, that's the machoism. The, the, the fronting, the, you

(53:44):
know, I I'm all that, you know, do do many women really like
that? The answer is no.
Yeah. I want someone who wants to be
with me and pleasure me. If you come at me and you want
to make me cum, you want to makeme have sexual pleasure.

(54:05):
You care about my pleasure. That isn't.
It I mean, now that you're making it a point, and I'm glad
that that's you've already answered the question.
I was going to say what what does a man mean to you?
I guess that's what it is. There's a dude who makes a chick
come. Someone who cares about my

(54:25):
pleasure because I've had experiences where I was not,
that was totally not prioritized, not even like
attended to. Which goes back to the it's
almost like this, this oxymoronic, like duality where
dudes put chicks on a pedestal and and then they spend their
entire life breaking that down so that they can hate them.

(54:47):
Quote. Not, not actually hate them, but
dislike them or whatever. But, and then but it's funny
that, like, to your point, it's like, well, if you really were
trying to be a man, you would just pay attention and pleasure
me. Yeah.
Yeah, to me, that is the secret of what a man would drive me

(55:08):
crazy. I'd be devoted to.
I would be obsessed with you. And The thing is, the more he
wants to pleasure me, the more Iwant to pleasure him.
It is reciprocal. And then there it is, a
beautiful circle. Right, yeah.
So then I guess we can go into where does porn fall into this

(55:28):
because it seems to be a problemfor for both females and males
for different reasons. What is your What is your
relationship with porn or understanding of porn with
females? I'm a very interesting case
because I spent, you know, probably the first, I don't

(55:50):
know, maybe 38 years of my life being offended by porn,
thinking, oh, oh, if he likes that, then he doesn't like me.
I would compare myself. I wasn't good enough.
He needed more. I wasn't this, I wasn't that.
So it became a threat. It became a, a sentence, a

(56:11):
statement. You're not good enough.
Right. And did you did?
It seem like cheating when a when a male would look at porn.
I think I viewed it that way more back then.
Yeah, yeah. And and I don't see it that way
now. So I'm a very, I guess I'm a
very interesting study because Ihave completely flipped, you

(56:31):
know, I've done the complete opposite.
And I think back then it used tobe more like.
And then I think I think the other thing is too, if you're in
and I was in a relationship where I was not made to feel
sexy. I was not made to be.
I wasn't my arousal didn't matter.
I wasn't my Eroticism didn't matter.

(56:52):
It didn't it, it was more an obligation to have sex.
It was to make a baby. It was to have children.
It was not about me. And so it it, sex has become so
different for me now in in my past.
And and they think that a lot ofwomen feel like porn is more
it's a threat, it's an insult, you're not good enough.

(57:15):
And if but if you make her feel sexy, I can tell you she
probably will feel different about it.
You know, I can't guarantee that's going to happen overnight
or initially, But if you make her feel like the sexiest woman
in the world, no fucking porn watching is going to matter once
she gets over that. If she can't get over that
there, you know, obviously there's going to be some women

(57:35):
that can't get over that. But now to me, I just see porn
as it's a kink. It's a, it's almost like a tool,
like a sex toy that you can use to get off.
And it doesn't define me. It doesn't insult me, it doesn't
tell me I'm less. It's a tool.
It's a tool is purely a tool, just like a sex toy, just like

(58:00):
anything else that gets you off.I don't know a pillow you know
you're going to grind on a pillow or a chair, I don't know
whatever you're going to grind on.
It's females, right? I don't know how many dudes were
grinding on a on a a chair. No, and and this I forgot to say
earlier. I think this is a really
interesting point. I forgot to say it earlier.

(58:21):
Back when my mom told me that, guess what I started to do?
I I didn't give up trying to I, I still try to pleasure myself
even though I didn't understand it.
I became a grinder because I wasn't touching.
Oh, interesting. Also very funny that that's a,
that's an app for guys. But yeah.
It's here are so many women thathave done this and grinding on
something you know and like you have to have the right the right

(58:43):
kind of pillow. It can't be too squishy.
It has to be firm enough, has tobe the right firmness or it's
just like as useless. Yeah, there's like a whole
grinding culture, isn't there? Like a.
Whole, yeah, yeah. And that thing is a little bit
similar to humping, right? Like it's a little bit similar
to that, but not quite. It depends on if the clit's
getting hit or not. Right.
I know that the the porn world has, there's been a an emergence

(59:05):
of women who just are grinding on things.
And I think it's aimed at women.It is, but this also comes from
something called like vagin. Vagin.
I can't say this word vaginosis.Vaginosis where insertion of
something somehow painful to them so they don't want to
insert anything. So they just basically focus on

(59:26):
external pleasure. And but there's a whole group of
women out there and doctors and therapists that help women,
pelvic floor therapists that help women overcome this.
And that's a huge movement. I just am fascinated by all
these doctors. I know several women doctors who
have left medicine like a hospital to create their own

(59:46):
female business to help women prove their pelvic floor and get
rid of this tightness, this painwith penetration.
And it's like physical therapy for your uterus, for your
pelvis, for your pussy. You know this is.
Amazing. Yeah, yeah.
And there's like a whole like movement around this.
This is wild. I mean, but I can see how that

(01:00:09):
that would change the game for somebody, right, Who's like
who's experiencing discomfort inthe world of sexuality and then
to get over that and hump like intended.
Say you're with a man and it hurts to be penetrated.
That's like a nightmare, right? Like you need a physical
therapist to help you overcome that, improve those muscles,

(01:00:31):
improve your pellet floor so that you can.
Who doesn't want to have that intimacy of penetration, right?
Like most women I know want their man to come with
penetration. They know that's how they come.
But if it hurts that, that's a disconnect that doesn't work.
So from like a health perspective, the the sexuality

(01:00:52):
and the emergence in of, you know, like these spaces, do you
think that that's an overall netgood for for women just
generally speaking? Yeah, and, and I see a lot of it
on Instagram and I follow several women who they're trying
to launch this to help and realize they don't have to have

(01:01:12):
pain during sex. They can, you know, do this like
actual physical therapy on theirtheir genital organs to try to
get rid of that pain and enjoy sex and penetration again.
Like how, how awful would that be to know that you can't except
a penis and then it hurts. Like that's, that's awful in my

(01:01:33):
opinion. Like that's, that's awful.
Right. I mean, it's like, it's like
like Ms. of like sex. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just like constantly in fucking pain.
It it just sucks to do anything.And it's like, that would be
terrible. Like no one would like also like

(01:01:54):
it, it especially because it's such a culturally relevant
thing, right? And it's like you're just
immediately outed from this space where you get to feel like
a a person in a, in a place froma perspective where you're
already like oppressed and suppressed.
And and here's another thing to come overcome.
Yeah, No 100. Percent right?
And what do you think that like the, the, the political

(01:02:20):
landscape at like, do you think that that's hurt or helped at
all, you know, in the last like 10 years for the emergence of
maybe like exploring sexuality? I think the past, like, yeah,
year or so has been very harmful.
And, you know, there's been a lot of states trying to pull
their sex out that they're trying to, you know, prevent

(01:02:42):
knowledge. They're trying to prevent women,
you know, like I've even seen some states because I'm in the
book writing business, some states are trying to like,
prevent romance books. Like seriously, like they think
that that's a threat and I'm thinking this is where a woman
enjoys something and is startingto learn and open up to

(01:03:03):
sexuality and romance and relationships and you're trying
to shut this shit down. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Yeah, also like First Amendment like.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Not even touching that. First Amendment is first.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
That's I mean, that's that's I don't know, my role is usually

(01:03:27):
like if it's not harming anybodyor yourself, right, You know, it
is what it is, dude, you got to just let it fly.
There was man, there was a really awesome question that I
had that just totally slipped mymind.
And I think we were going to talk about it was in the realm

(01:03:48):
of porn. Yeah.
I don't feel like we fully, fully finished that
conversation, right? Like I feel like there was still
more to be said. I I guess I can say that right
now I'm a, I'm an avid user of user of porn because I don't
compare myself to it. To me, it's now become a tool
for myself. And I've accepted that I can

(01:04:09):
even I can have fantasies on my own that I don't share with
anyone that I can use with porn to get me off.
Just because you like something doesn't mean you want to do it.
And that's OK. Sometimes some fantasies stay
personal. Sometimes fantasies just stay in
watching porn. Some are shared with your
partner. And they think that women need

(01:04:31):
to accept that and be like, you know, it's it's it's about
accepting who you are. And I think there's a whole
discussion around kinks in what turns us on.
And a lot of it actually happensfrom what happens to us in our
lives. So we really don't have a lot of
control over what our kinks and turn ONS are because so much of
what happens to us shapes that. And so there's a lot of women

(01:04:53):
especially that feel guilty about dark fantasies.
Right. And This is why dark romance is
exploding. I don't know if the in your
world realizes, but dark romancefor women is huge.
I mean, like, this is what the women want.
This is what the women are seeking because it helps them
enjoy it in a safe space. It helps them explore.

(01:05:16):
Maybe. Oh, I like that.
Maybe you know this character likes that too.
Maybe I'm not bad. Maybe this is just a kink and it
doesn't define me as a sexual being.
This is where people get confused too, where actual
sexual acts do not define your sexuality or your orientation.
You can have a kink that has nothing to do with your

(01:05:38):
orientation. They are not always tied
together. Yeah, no, for sure, that's like
1 where like dudes would for sure say like Nah, right.
And, and I think that that's oneof the biggest differentiators
between like the, the male exploring sexuality and the

(01:05:59):
female exploring sexuality. And whether in from a dude's
perspective, it's whether it's it's with a female or not, it's
there's some things that are just thought out of bounds right
from for most. Right.
And and then it's interesting that you're bringing up this,
this dark emergence of sexuality.

(01:06:21):
And so it would you say that it's, it's a healthy thing that
is happening or would you say that it's an unhealthy thing?
Because if the kinks are are coming in from or emerging, if
the kinks emerge from from life events or something like that,
experiences as you mentioned, would that not mean that more

(01:06:43):
people are experiencing similar things?
Yes, and I think that what's interesting is there's a dude
called Justin Lee Miller and he did this whole giant study of
what the most common kinks are and fantasies are.
And it was very commonly collected AS7 topics and some of
them are very dark. And this was across men and

(01:07:03):
women. And I think that when people
engage in porn or dark romance or anything that's.
What I wanted to compare it to, yeah, go ahead.
Yeah. Yeah, they and for some people
it's going to be a healing experience.
Say they were maybe raped or attacked or abused.
It might be a way for them to emotionally work through that in

(01:07:26):
in a safe space where maybe the characters, maybe the characters
go to a bad place, but then maybe they go to a good place
and it's a place of positivity and growth and healing as they
read this. And for some people, it can be
just a dark cake that is maybe atrigger.
OK, then it's a fantasy. It's a role play.
It's not real. Yeah, so you're what I'm picking

(01:07:49):
up on is like maybe it's for theones that are healing.
It's more like an exposure therapy then.
Gotcha. Yeah, because the the when you
originally brought it up, immediately it my mind went to
dudes with porn who who take it overboard and suddenly they're
desensitized and their relationships are in the fucking

(01:08:10):
gutter. They're in the right.
They can't they can't hold sexual relationships correctly
and they're the romantic relationships.
Ships suffer for it because it'sjust so unhealthy.
And I think that's what I was trying to understand, because I
don't know anything about that world.
Right. The the emerging dark kinks or
and and and literature around that.

(01:08:31):
I have no idea. Well, and they think people need
to realize that porn is entertainment, it's not
education. So there's people out there that
think, oh, if I, if I watch thisporn and the woman is getting
off and I go turn around and do that to my partner, you need to
communicate that you can't just all of a sudden do that to your
partner and assume they're goingto like it.

(01:08:53):
You need to talk about this. And just because someone is
turned on by something also doesn't mean they actually want
to do it in real life. Sometimes, sometimes you just
stay in your head and you don't want to actually do them.
For instance, for some people who are fascinated by BDSM and
and spanking and you know, you know, being tied up in in so

(01:09:13):
tight that you can't move. Some people find that erotic,
but the actual reality of that would bring pain, and they're
not turned on by pain. Some people are turned on by
pain, but some people aren't. So and and let that be OK for
your partner. If your partner is turned on by
that, use it to make your intimacy better.

(01:09:35):
Don't shame them for it. Right consensually.
Right, right. And some people really want a
legit do it. I mean, you know, and then some
people are like, no, I don't want the pain, but that turns me
on. Right.
So I'll read a book, I'll watch a porn video, I'll listen to an
audio book, and I can get it that way without having bodily
physical pain, the mental activity.

(01:09:58):
Right, right. And so the kind of like a
voyeuristic proximity to the experience rather than an
immersive experience to the gotcha.
Right, right. Like, and I, I've interviewed,
I've interviewed this woman who's a porn.
She's a, she works in a dungeon in LA and she talked about

(01:10:18):
spanking and her big thing is she likes to be spanked, right?
And she likes to be spanked a lot.
And, and she talked about this one video she did.
Well, there was three different women.
One was very new to spanking, one was kind of in the middle.
And then there was her apparently she said with all the
spanking she's had, her skin is thickened.
So they compared the three assesof the women and it was unreal

(01:10:42):
the difference in the skin of the, the, the, the woman who
knew the spanking to the middle to her.
It takes her a lot to have any sort of even evidence of being
spanked. You see the woman in the
beginning, the one that's barelybeen spanked at all and her and
she's like red, like inflamed, like you're just looking at her
like, Oh my gosh, you know, likethat's crazy.
But there are a lot of women whomight be turned on by spanking,

(01:11:03):
but don't actually want to experience that actual pain.
And So what do you think they'reactually for like those types of
people out there? Because I think there's dudes I
know, I know for myself even, right, like there's, there's
things that I am like, well, that's an interesting type of
porn and it's like it, but it's not something I want to
experience, right. But it's, it's like there's
something bizarre about it that might be like arousing.

(01:11:27):
And and so like in those situations, like, I mean, you
know, for the the woman who wants who like in it's in
proximity to the spanking, but doesn't actually want to like
receive that kind of play, then like what do you think that
person is trying to actually receive?
What do you think they actually get?

(01:11:48):
Well, I've actually, I've, I've interviewed so many people, like
I've interviewed probably over 3-4 hundred people about
sexuality and one, OK, so I've, I've seen several different
things. 1 is like a, a, a woman who is maybe spanked as a child
and she's trying to work throughwhat does this mean?
And in, in, in, in how do I reconcile this?

(01:12:09):
I was spanked as a child. OK, another woman, I was spanked
as a child, but the, the, the, the, the spankers fingers
touched my clit, right? So there's just like weird,
right? Like this is weird tie.
Yeah, we're just in like fuckingFreud territory.
Yeah, exactly. And it's not her fault, right?
It's not her fucking fault because she was accidentally

(01:12:32):
touched. Well, of course you're naked,
right? The person who's being spanked
is naked. It is not improbable to think
that the fingers went there, right?
So then she has this weird connection of pleasure with
being spanked, but yet she doesn't want to be spanked.
So she's got this weird cake that she doesn't want to
actually experience. So for those kind of women, I

(01:12:52):
think they're working through that.
They're like, OK, that turns me on, but I don't actually want to
be hit on my ass, right? But then there's other women who
find there. There's this whole culture too,
of people who maybe aren't awareof this, that there's a certain,
there's a way to spank that can stimulate the clitoris sexually
and there's a way to not. So there's a there's a right way

(01:13:14):
to spank and a wrong way to spank, right?
If you're going to get into kinks, you know, BDSM people
teach this kind of stuff. There's a right way to spank and
a wrong way to spank, first of all, and then there's a way to
arouse. Right.
So let me, I need to clarify if we're talking about like
spanking asses or spanking clitorises, right?
That's question once, right. And then two, are we talking

(01:13:36):
about like the difference between like, like, like, I feel
like we're in the realm of like pro wrestling here where when
someone gets hit, they're not actually getting hit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true.
OK, fair enough. I'll let you continue.
There's a whole gamut across that and again, it's all about

(01:13:56):
communication. You need to communicate with
your partner what you want and what you like.
But there is a thing about spanking the clit is, you know,
and I think the spanking, the clit can be hot for a woman who
now this is going to tie into anatomy and this is another mind

(01:14:17):
blowing thing, but how differentclits are as different as
fingerprints are clicks are thatdifferent, right?
So you cannot assume from one woman to the next set the clit
pressure that they want is the same because some of them are
more hooded, they were covered by flesh, Some are more open.
Some women like a little bit of a touch and they're like, like
screaming. And other women, they need to be

(01:14:38):
fucking smacked on their clit, right?
Like a fucking clit spanking. And that turns them on.
That gets them off. There's this giant gradient
again. You need to find out.
She needs to find out what feelsgood.
Clitoral spectrum is that. Yes.
It's a Spectrum 100. Percent of the spectrum.
So women need to get used to talking and there's a lot of

(01:15:01):
women that don't want to talk about sex, right?
Like they're scared to. So if you make it a safe place
to talk about sex, you're going to be in a better place.
And, and it's hard because I, I just interviewed a dude who was
606162. Nice.
And he spent his whole life withthis woman who would not talk

(01:15:22):
about sex ever. They ended up getting divorced.
I ended up being divorced and hemet a 30 year old woman, 30
years as senior and they had, they had a sexual relationship.
It blew his life out of the water because she she would
communicate where his wife wouldn't.

(01:15:43):
The communication is the key. Well, I mean, it's, I think
it's, it's pretty clear like that I'm really big into
communication just generally speaking and the way that people
communicate and the socially and, and symbolically mostly
and, and the impact that that has on our, our lives and our

(01:16:04):
meaning and in conjunction with the things that we do and
whatnot. And so like it, it was very
established from the beginning that even just from like an
anatomical perspective and like,we just do not, we're not even
built to speak the same language, right.
And so it's like when you have somebody who's like, willing to

(01:16:27):
like learn the other language and have a conversation that's
mind blowing no matter where you're at, because now you're
like, this is cool because you're not supposed to be able
to speak this language. And we can understand each other
because one of us did the effortand then not the other one is
like, well, I'm going to, I'm going to be willing to.
Yeah. Because you're in like foreign

(01:16:47):
territory. You're exploring an island no
one's been to and you're about to take this knowledge back.
And it's exciting. As a dude, it's totally
exciting, right? Like I.
Yes. Everyone has every dude that I
know has that one partner who like blew their fucking mind
and. I thought they were a good
communicator, right? I bet they were.
Right, right. And for me it was like our

(01:17:09):
regular relationship sucked and it no, it was just we were
terrible at communicating like. Yeah.
And but the sexual relationship was like mind blowing.
It was from like some different planet and it it levelled it
made the other part not matter. Right.
Oh, I can understand that. And you can have that go both

(01:17:30):
ways, right? Like you can have.
Right. Right, it can go both ways in
that way. Yeah, that's a really good
point. And So what what about that
perspective though, right? Because like, if your regular
relationship is like, you know, I don't even know how to what do
we label this like your, your, your normal relationship is
like. Your everyday relationship

(01:17:52):
maybe, I don't know. And then your sexual 1 is in in
shambles because the communication there isn't not
well. Like I feel like that's a recipe
for disaster. It is, and I think that it, I
think if you have poor relation,poor communication in either,
eventually it's going to break down.
And and what I think is super interesting is that a lot of

(01:18:15):
divorce has happened in midlife,which is when women are starting
to come into their own and starting to understand sexual
pleasure for themselves and accept it and explore it.
And this is interesting because a lot of relationships can't
handle the fluidity of that. They can't handle the transition

(01:18:37):
and it dies. And she might just decide, fuck
you, I'm out of here. You don't.
You don't want anything to know about me.
You don't want it pleasure me. You don't care about me.
Yeah, it's and that's, that's something that I talked to you
with dudes often and not from that perspective, but like my,

(01:19:03):
my observation is that when dudes hit 40, they and the the
ones that are the ones that are still insecure and having
crowded themselves as males, like they, they dig their heels
in and double down on on ego. And and then suddenly they're
the fucking man. And everything anyone does is

(01:19:26):
fucking stupid and no one knows anything because they're the
smartest person in the room and and it's fucking disgusting and
it's annoying. And and so it's interesting that
you bring up the the female sexual emergence during a period
when like, because those two people in that, in this in a
relationship would be a disaster.

(01:19:46):
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
You know, when you look at the divorce rate, it's it's most
commonly happening at midlife and it's most often commonly
instigated by a woman. Yeah, and then I don't imagine
it even has to be like a significant like change in, in
the sexual exploration or the realm of, of sexuality, right.

(01:20:09):
It could be like a small one, like I'm I'm just trying to get
fucked, like I'm just trying to fuck.
And like, even that could be intimidating if the relationship
is stale, right? Right, and and and just trying
to get fucked, but not acceptingthat she wants pleasure too.
If you both just want to get fucked and you both accept that
and you both accept that you both want pleasure, golden, but

(01:20:30):
you still have it on the other part of your relationship.
Be communication too. Like we're saying, it's almost
like you need full communicationthroughout the sexuality realm
and the everyday life realm, andif you don't, things die.
Yeah, it made me sad. But we don't have to be that

(01:20:55):
way. That's the other beautiful
thing, is that we don't have to accept that we don't have to be
that way. We can change it.
We can change the narrative, we can change how we react like.
Why do you think some people don't want to?
I think some people are so stuckin themselves or so stuck in
culture. Like I talked to this one woman
who was, let's see, I think she was like 45, right?

(01:21:17):
And she was just like blossomingin her sexuality.
She gave her husband a sexual bucket list of things she wanted
to try. Everything shut him down.
Instead of him being excited that she was giving him a list
of things she wanted to explain,he took it internally and took
it all as offense and it shut down.

(01:21:41):
Right. And so like, that's one of those
things where what do you do in like, because I know that I know
dudes who this was the question earlier with the, the toys in
the room, right? It's like, that's too much,
right? So then what happens when you're
like, you know, the partner comes in and is like, Hey,

(01:22:01):
here's the stuff that we should probably try and then like your
partner shuts down, right? And in my case, I want to
explore it from like a dude's perspective, like, you know,
example partner says, this is the things I want to try in the
bedroom and then I shut down. What?
How do you recover from that? I think that if you go into it

(01:22:24):
with a mind frame of being open,you're already good, but if you
go into it and shame her, it's pretty fucking hard to come
back. Yeah.
And then so then from a dude's perspective, it might be hard to
come back like from that side too, right?

(01:22:44):
And so it's like. Without the dynamic nature of
willing to understand that the other person, I guess there's
like this maturity that has to come with all of this, right?
And if you don't have that maturity like in your mind or
like grown into it or emerged, then like you're just going to

(01:23:05):
be a retard about it. And it's like.
Right. But you know what?
If you own it and be like I was a fucking idiot, I'm sorry I
said that shit. But that takes maturity.
It does. It does.
I was. Scared like, like I saw your
list and all I thought was I wasn't enough and I'm scared.
But if you say that to her, thatis everything.

(01:23:27):
Versus if you clam up and say nothing or shame her.
That is such a different world. Yeah, you.
Own it. You know, if you get offended
and and be a dumbass, fucking own that shit and say it.
I was a fucking idiot, you know,Like get over yourself and be
like, I was a fucking idiot. I'm sorry I made that about me.

(01:23:51):
You know, and that's something that I think that is an
important thing just generally speaking with relationships and
the, the willingness to admit you're wrong quickly or, you
know, even slowly, but get thereright, the willingness to admit
that you were wrong and, and then have a conversation about
that. And it's just fascinating

(01:24:11):
because I know that those are things that I've dealt with in
my, my life over the years and in my experiences, but I've
never thought about how that might like translate into the
realm of sexuality, right? Like, it's so fascinating to
think about it as like this other existence that is also
like a mirror image of like our normal life.

(01:24:33):
It's like exploring, it's like living in the shadow constantly
of like who we are in this like after dark version of ourselves
and trying to exist right. And it's just I've never thought
about it that way and it almost normalizes it for me just having
this conversation as AI don't know how to like.

(01:24:55):
It's like the Halloween town of fucking life.
I love that. You know, I've, I've talked
about this before on my podcast.It's because we separate
sexuality and sexual health fromthe rest of our mental health
and our lives. We put sexuality and sexual
health over on the side. We put it on the shelf, but

(01:25:16):
sexual health is integral to mental health.
It is part of our lives. We cannot put it to the side.
It is integral. And when you put it to the side,
stuff falls off, man, and stuff falling through the grates and
you're losing shit. It is integral.
And when you treat it as not integral, you're going to lose
out and your relationships are going to suck.

(01:25:39):
Yeah, I think there's just so many moving parts to this and
it's like, what? What do you think is one thing
maybe like a a male can do to maybe move the ball in the right
direction? I think.
For this for this this topic of like sexuality with, you know, a
partner respectfully. Because I think there's.

(01:26:02):
A lot of news out there disrespecting people like a
motherfucker, and that shit's crazy.
It needs to chill out a little bit.
I think anyone who if you can treat her like a human being and
treat her pleasure as important as yours, that is monumental if
it even prioritize hers. And the reason I say I'm not

(01:26:25):
trying to make her be on a pedestal.
I'm saying prioritize her because her entire life she has
not been prioritized. She has been told don't do this.
Don't experience that. You're not supposed to be
sexual. You know, like it's the whole
thing of, you know, lingerie companies in fucking Amazon can
put images of women in lingerie to sell the fucking product,

(01:26:49):
right? But someone like me who is
putting an image up there, a book cover of a woman in
lingerie that is celebrating sexuality and relationships and
female pleasure, we cannot put that image up.
Yeah, that's crazy. Sexual, but yet these fucking

(01:27:09):
idiots, these companies can put all these fucking as many
fucking images as they fucking want of women in lingerie
because they're fucking selling it.
You go on Amazon and you search up lingerie, see what you find,
but you try to go and see, I know this because I publish.
We are so restricted and it's getting worse.

(01:27:31):
We have to be very careful what kind of covers we put on our
books, and we're talking about love and relationships and kinks
and sexuality and pleasure, and we are restricted.
Yet these fucking companies thatare selling lingerie can put any
fucking image they fucking want.This is capitalism, consumerism,

(01:27:54):
and it's a double standard. Yeah, it kind of it.
It's like, it sounds like you'redescribing OPEC Plus, like we're
regulating the oil here so that everyone can have, right.
It's like they're just gatekeeping.
They're gatekeeping. Exactly.
I have so many examples of that.I I had no idea that was a

(01:28:15):
thing. I never even thought about that.
Oh my gosh, yeah. In in erotica, in erotic
writing. If you have two sexy event image
they dunge in your book. They put it where no one can
find it. Yeah, that's that's, that's
wild. I know.
That's like a big, like big, biglike genre like they it's

(01:28:36):
growing. It's grown big time over the
last 10 years, like exponentially almost.
And it's there's like not there's so much content
constantly churning on that in that field.
It's it's insane. It is insane.
It's amazing. That's a that's a really good.
That's crazy. And you know what the major

(01:28:58):
driver it is? What's that?
About 67% of things that are getting published are now
getting self published by women and they're about romance and
sex and that is driving it huge.It is taking away from the
traditional publishers because people want this content and it
is changing the landscape of publishing.

(01:29:20):
But you still have these gatekeepers like Amazon who are
I have. I have a friend who who writes.
She's very successful. And if she includes a cover of A
Woman in Lingerie or a little bit of lace, her book is
stungeent. That sucks.
I don't like. That yeah, exactly.

(01:29:42):
But yet this is the crazy thing.You cannot search on Amazon with
the word erotic. Search on the word with erotic
erotic romance on Amazon, you cannot find it.
But guess what Amazon does? If they decide a book is erotic,
they'll put it in the categoriesof what it's ranking.
But we can't use that word. We can't use the word sex.
We can't even use the word sex without being dungeoned.

(01:30:06):
That's so weird. What do you think?
Like outside of the just the general gatekeeping, what do you
think that the the point of doing something like that is?
Only thing I didn't think of wasthey're trying to please someone
who has big pockets, who is veryconservative and purity culture.
So they're trying to still make money on all of this, these
amazing, amazing self-publishingauthors who are creating all of

(01:30:31):
this content. So they're allowing them to
publish it, but they're still trying to please these big
pockets that are conservative and purity culture.
That is my theory because why doyou allow a woman in lace
lingerie for something to buy for the lingerie, but when you

(01:30:51):
have that image for a book you dungeon it it's the same image?
Yeah, that's, that's actually like super fascinating.
And I'm curious if I wish I knewsomebody over there who's making
calls like that. So I can understand why, because
that's, it's a really weird likedouble standard, like a really

(01:31:14):
big one and and then to and thento exploit it when it's like,
well, this one's making money. We're not going to let this big
fish go by. We're going to put it over here.
That's weird. Yep, Yep.
And if, if it's something you'regoing to sell a product of, but
if it's a story that's going to help people and be about romance
and relationships and fucking and sex, then they then they

(01:31:36):
gatekeeping. Yeah.
This is fucked up, right? Yeah, no, it, it really is.
I just, I feel like I'm kind of like my mind's blown a little
bit because it's such a weird standard double standard to have
over over. And people don't realize that,
like we're so indoctrinated to seeing women in lingerie, like

(01:31:57):
it's just a normal thing. Well, that's for sale.
OK, that looks good. I want to buy it.
But anytime it's related to relationships, sex, pleasure,
they shut it down. Yeah, but what about like a dude
in like maybe underwear with a fucking 6 pack?
Hey, that's. Cool.
They do that too. But you know, this is so funny

(01:32:17):
because we had this discussion like I, I'm a writer obviously.
And I, we talked about this and there was a period where Amazon
went through this thing where ifa nipple was showing, it got
dungeoned, even if it was a man nipple.
And I'm like, men walk around with no fucking shirt on like
it's normal. Why are we letting these nipple
filters come in here and shut down a fucking man chest?

(01:32:39):
It's fucked up. Yeah, What this?
Is culturally acceptable. Yeah, it just seems weird.
Like all of that just seems really bizarre.
I would, I don't know, man, there's so many things I would
probably approach that with, butlike, it's such a weird this,
the moves everyone has been making on, on like the

(01:33:00):
consumers, like the keepers of, of like products and stuff.
And just like all these corporations in the last like
five years has been really bizarre.
And it's very clear that their allegiance is to like nothing
really. And it's money.
And so whatever makes money. I I don't know, it just seems
weird that you want to have extra money coming in.

(01:33:22):
Well, look what happened with only fans.
Look what happened only fans last August.
Maybe you don't even. Know maybe I do not know what
what. Happened there.
So there was this massive movement on only fans where they
decided it was not OK to do whatthey were doing, so they were
shutting down all of these accounts that we're making.

(01:33:43):
What the credit card companies came down on, Yes.
Oh yeah. I'm fucking idiots, purity
crudes sitting on these fucking credit card companies that are
deciding what the fuck we get tofucking do and view and see and
buy. This is what's happening.
But they realized what a fuckingmistake it was and they reversed

(01:34:04):
it, but they stopped it. And people I know lost so much
money because that was their, that was their income.
That was their job, right? And they reversed it.
Thank goodness. But This is why it's happening,
because there's a fucking bunch of probably small amount of
idiot fucking prude dudes at thetop saying you're not supposed
to like that. Right, right.

(01:34:24):
That offends me, right? Fuck that guy.
Some guy pissed him off that day.
I know a woman, right? OK, so I know a woman who who is
in Onlyfans and she has friends who have a lot of spanking
videos where the man is spankingthe woman.
OK, those are OK, right? She spanks men.
She's a Dom. She's a DOMMEA female Dom.

(01:34:47):
She spanks submissive men. Her content got cut out, but the
other ones, the men speaking, the women got to stay.
What does that tell you? Is this an only fans?
Yeah, yeah. That's.
So she got hers cut because she was speaking a man.
So it tells you it's a man in charge up there saying no, you

(01:35:10):
can't do that, that's not OK. Yeah.
Is there reporting features on those?
I don't know. She told this whole story and I
was just like, Oh my gosh. So so she was getting censored,
whereas the other spanking videos were not because the
women were getting spanked. That's I don't know.
It's weird. Like crazy, it's.
Crazy, yeah. So there's dudes up there in the

(01:35:31):
top, they're like this little group of people deciding what
the fuck we get to do. Yeah, that that whole thing that
the the only fans phenomenon is just a fascinating one.
Just overall, generally speakingand how much money is generated.
Honestly, like I, I, if I was a female, I know what I would be

(01:35:53):
doing. Like the money like I've seen
come out of those places from people I know is if a phenomenal
like for what you're doing specifically, right, It's like
it's insane. And so like, I guess like what
about what about since we're on this topic, what about the the

(01:36:16):
world of sex work? What about the world of sex work
and sexuality and pleasure and how it, you know, I don't know
if you've done any of that yourself, but how does that
translate into like maybe the female emerging into her own
sexuality or exploring and how that bridges between male and
female relations? Well, interestingly, I have

(01:36:40):
interviewed Madam who is in Nevada and she yes, oh, that was
such a fascinating conversation.So she start.
So basically what happened was.

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#12 Ruan Willow – Exploring Female Sexuality, Finding the Clitoris, Erotic Novels, Sex Toys, Orgasm, Kink, & Relationships Part 1

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#12 Ruan Willow – Exploring Female Sexuality, Finding the Clitoris, Erotic Novels, Sex Toys, Orgasm, Kink, & Relationships Part 1