#14 Max – Father, Husband, Brother; Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Comfort

#14 Max – Father, Husband, Brother; Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Comfort

Max is a Father, a husband, and a brother—and everyday man. He shares some laughs and insight on the troubling nature of low self-doubt, home instability, divorce, and death in the family. Max shares about his tendencies to over analyze his behavioral interactions and engagements in the world and how life manages to unfold in peculiar ways—life, liberty, and the pursuit of something familiar and comfortable.

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STAG is a podcast for men. We interview everyday men just like you who share their journey and experience with failure, strength, and courage.

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Guest content and links are not an endorsement.

If you or a man you know may benefit from mental health or addiction services, please visit this great resource to find help:

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Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Welcome to Stag, a show where weinterview everyday men just like
you who share their journey and experience with failure,
strength and courage. If you'd like to share your own
experience, please visit [e-mail] where you
can sign up to be a guest on theshow.
Links are also available in the description.
And while you're at it, drop us a review.

(00:24):
Thanks for your support. Now here's the interview.
Max, thank you so much for doingthis interview with me, Sir.
I appreciate your your time and your willingness to participate
in this project. And so I'm going to start this
interview the way that I startedthis interview with everybody
else that has come before you, Sir.

(00:46):
And it is who is Max? How did you get here?
What if ends, things, people, places have transpired,
conspired and what not? What What has unfolded to put
you here in the present moment with me?
Who are you, how did you get here, etcetera.

(01:06):
Well I'm 6 foot 2 green eyes andI love long walks on the beach,
but essentially it's just a floating speck of matter that
ended up here amongst random occurrences.
Is there? It's quite the compelling story,
Sir. Yeah, no, I may have thought

(01:32):
this was something different, but it's OK.
Be quiet. Wait, what do you mean?
I was fucking around. I apologize.
Oh yeah, so OK. Do you mind sharing maybe how
old you are? Yes, I'm early 40s.
Early 40s. Early 40s, was there anything

(01:58):
looking back on your life that has maybe shaped or created
anchors in your life that you can maybe highlight and touch
on? You know, maybe broad strokes,
bullet points of like, you know,I'm four years old, and these
are the events that I think haveshaped me as a human being or as
a man in life. Without going into like very

(02:22):
specific detail, growing up in arather big family, it was just
constant chaos and you kind of have to adapt to get through it.
And then you learn to live amongst the chaos.

(02:42):
Well, obviously, you know, causing your own.
And I guess that that'd be a wayto they kind of shaped me is
just living through craziness when you have so many people in
a house at one time, like when Iwas young, there was eight of us

(03:02):
in the house. And then as I got older, you
know, siblings moved on and everything.
But still growing up, there was always seem to be constant
people, constant flow, brothers having friends over, you know,
parents having company over, just always a constant flow of
people and just just adapting topersonalities and and conflicts

(03:31):
because there was a lot of conflict and learning to stay
sane through all that conflict in chaos and self adaptation,
self-reliance and also existing within a community.

(03:59):
You brought up your your your childhood immediately when I
asked the question. And so there must be something
that is very profound there withyour experience as in most
people, right, most people's childhood to help shape who they
are in some sense, right. But you highlighted the maybe
chaos quite a bit and I'm, I want to understand if maybe that

(04:22):
was good chaos, bad chaos, what that look like.
So, so the bigger family said mom, dad, both in the picture
and you have, you know, how manybrothers, how many sisters, how
many siblings, good pets, right?So like all of the above.
And if you want to, you know, I'll just get the names and use

(04:43):
your names or not use names. That's fine.
But maybe just a general pictureof like what kind of environment
we're dealing with here? OK, so in the immediate family
there was parents, five brothersincluding myself, one sister,

(05:04):
and we, when I was just coming into consciousness 5-6 years
old, my older siblings were in high school and middle school.
And so they had a constant full of friends over always just
people. It never seemed.
You never seemed to have like a fucking moment to yourself.

(05:25):
So you really had to find it, you know, if you were looking
for it. So there was sibling arguments,
fighting about a lot of different things.
I never did well with the yelling.

(05:45):
So it kind of felt like you weretrapped because you had nowhere
to go to where it was quiet, right?
You know you sharing rooms up until you're teenager so.
OK, so maybe what kind of like, was it a big house?
Was it a small house? Was it a, you know, medium sized

(06:05):
house like a golden box house, right?
Like. We lived in between kindergarten
and my senior year of high school.
We lived in about 19 different houses, so there was no real a
moved around a lot. Yeah.
OK, so when we're saying, OK, there was chaos, a lot of chaos
and trying to adjust the chaos, we're talking about not only

(06:28):
just the the the the dynamic of,you know, relationships within
the family and siblings, but also the constant moving around.
And I would imagine that that would cause a lot of turbulence
and, and maybe difficulty to anchor as, you know, a child.

(06:48):
And then with constant bodies coming in and out of, you know,
the, the home. It's a lot to adjust to what,
what was the, what was causing the moving around a lot?
And how did that make you feel as a, as a, you know, as a young
man kind of growing up in this environment outside of like

(07:09):
feeling chaotic? There's a lot of turmoil between
my parents at times, so they cansplit and get back together,
split, get back together, split,get back together.
That was part and the reasons for the moves, but a lot of
other factors went into it. You know, my dad's job, my
brother playing college football.

(07:33):
Sometimes it was just to get thefuck away from other family, you
know? So it was just, it was just a
lot, a lot. And then going to new schools,
you know, you'd meet friends andthen they were gone.

(07:55):
You were gone, you know, So it was hard to have like a real
foundation anywhere. You never really felt like
you're, you were settled. Your feet were never grounded.
And did you were you guys movingaround a lot within like maybe
this like same city or was it like you guys were moving to

(08:17):
different cities in different states or different?
Countries. No, not different countries.
The same state. California, throughout Central
Valley, CA and Northern California and then eventually
to Southern California. I want to say between

(08:38):
kindergarten to high school 1/2 345 and we settled down say say
yeah I mean I wasn't over exaggerating on it but more of

(09:01):
the moves came later on after high school but I was about 9
moves before we settled in the one house and actually had some
normality. Yeah.
And so like it was all kinds of factors contributing to that.
And then like you're, you're kind of like emerging as a young
man and into your teens and and as through high school and

(09:22):
stuff. And like, how are you coping
with this and, and what impact do you think that that had on
your adulthood? Oh, it made me into a huge smart
ass because I never knew how long I was going to be around
anywhere. So I never took anything really
fucking seriously. You know, eventually it's like,

(09:46):
OK, I can tell these people whatever the fuck I want because
who who cares? You know, I'm probably not going
to be here that long. And then so we just basically
fucking storyteller, you know, sitting around the campfire
telling bullshit, making up stuff.

(10:08):
What's interesting about that, that statement you're saying
about how you like the the response to a chaotic and ever
fluid environment was taking it not seriously essentially.
And I was talking to somebody the other day about sexuality

(10:29):
and promiscuity and how, you know, maybe this like this
culture of like, you know, Tinder culture and, or you know,
especially with males with like the pickup artistry that once
happened and like they're like thousands and all that shit.
And like this constant like, right, the needing to like just

(10:49):
constantly get laid and, and just put numbers up and, and
that kind of thing. And we were, we were talking
about specifically how she was mentioning how like for females,
it doesn't really like lend to creating intimate exploration of
oneself or with a partner. And I, I was conveying to her
that like when I was kind of just in, in the, in the, the

(11:14):
Tinder world and just doing, youknow, random hookups and, and
all that, it's like that was onething that it just became this
mechanical thing that happened. And it was, I didn't, you
couldn't, you can be respectful to the people you were with and
you can be honest and open with them, But like you couldn't, you
couldn't anchor yourself into some intimate like

(11:35):
understanding. And so like there was no,
there's no fundamental meaningfulness that came from
it. And it's like, it kind of
tripped me out when she mentioned all of this and we had
that conversation. And now I'm seeing how like
there's on the regular side of the world outside of the sexual
stuff. It's like there are moments like

(11:55):
that too, right? Where and maybe I'm just seeing
parallels or, or, you know, coincidences or, or something,
right? And where when people come and
go and you're in an environment where people come and go.
And this is where I was getting at.
It's like it's hard to just establish a foundation or or
really put that much effort intosomething where the face is

(12:19):
going to be gone before you havea chance to know it.
Right. Yeah, I mean, that's essentially
what life is nowadays. Dude.
It's just one big game of fucking FarmVille.
You go online, you, you, you, you know, find somebody you want
to be friends with. You go and pick their crops and
water their yard and and then, you know, you've had, you've

(12:41):
done what you needed with them and then they're gone single
serving, you know, it's just. And then unless you really find
the person you want to connect with and but there's no real,
it's not really organic anymore.You know, it's just all it's,

(13:02):
it's a fucking menu with these apps is what you're, it's like
you're sitting in a fucking restaurant and, and you're
picking what you want for the evening.
And when you start associating people, human beings with that,
you're going to disassociate andyou're not going to fucking, you
know, you're going to start because obviously we're all our

(13:23):
own main character in this fucking story world that we're
living and we kind of live life through that, that lens.
And if you don't connect and andlearn that people are fucking
real just like you, you know, you, you, you, you just start to

(13:45):
think of it as a game. Yeah, I mean, and it's not, it
doesn't seem super far fetched in a world where everything is
disposable, Why, why wouldn't itbe logical that people would
follow suit with with the way that we treat others, right.
And and, and sometimes I don't think that it's on purpose

(14:06):
either. It, it might be like some kind
of a cultural kind of coming to because of just how fast-paced
and accessible everything is, right.
And so they, when you open the door to accessibility and reach,
then you don't. But I think about like fish
farms, right? And the tragedy of fish farms

(14:26):
and how we have an abundance of fish, but like the, the, the
possibility of disease and illness that comes from that is,
is exponentially higher than that of, you know, the state of
nature. And it's by virtue of creating
accessibility and abundance in away that it's not supposed to
happen. Everything in our in our

(14:48):
evolution has has been making needs easy to obtain
convenience. So we developed through
convenience, making our life easier, you know, taking the
pain out of, of, of gathering and hunting and all this shit.
You know, if you wanted meat back in the day, you'd have to

(15:10):
go out and shoot your family cowthat you've had for three years
and been feeding and, and whatever.
Now you just go to the grocery store and you don't need to
fucking think about it at all. Think about that.
It was once a living being that you're eating and, and, and all
that shit, you know, and it's the same with people now.
We don't have to have a connection, a long developing

(15:34):
history to commit to somebody for even a night or an evening
or whatever. You can kind of just sign up and
head out and do it, which is is neat in in some aspects, but it
kind of takes away from what we are, you know, and, and our our

(15:55):
desire to. I don't know where I'm going
with this, but if if you understand what I'm trying to
say about. Yeah, No, I mean, I think that
like the that that that sense ofbeing disposable, there's no
consequence, right? Because, because for the same

(16:18):
reason, it's, it's like the ideathat it should be freeing to
know that nobody cares about youand that there's 8 billion
people on this planet. And so if you get dumped, that
then there's likely another person who is a better or or at
least similar compatibility and match, right?
But then there's also the fact that like we'll fuck this person
because there's 8 billion peoplein the world, right?

(16:40):
And it's a double edged sword inwhich we we're like, right.
And so I understand that, but I'm curious, like when we bring
it full circle to your, you're experiencing emergence as a as a
young man and to an adult where everything is seemingly chaotic.
And the response is I'm I'm going to forego intimate strong

(17:06):
connection with human beings because they're just going to be
gone. And now the environment kind of
mimics that on a digital front. Did you ever have any sense of
like I like a struggle with identity construction and we're
or specifically like as a male, did you ever struggle with I

(17:27):
mean like the question of like what it means to be a man and am
IA man or anything like that? As.
You know, as you were growing upand maybe in your adulthood.
I think The thing is too is whenI, when I say I became a good
bullshitter is I start bullshitting myself too, to
believe certain things about myself.
And then what I am, you know, I'm a tough guy.

(17:49):
I'm a big guy, you know, and youknow, nobody's going to fuck
with me or whatever. And you, you lie to everybody
else, but you also lie to yourself.
But I was also fortunate, you know, having a big family.
I did have those constants and you know, I did have friends

(18:10):
from the younger days that I wasstill in contact with.
So I still had them to communicate with.
But as far as myself, yeah, I was, I was fucked with a lot of
like what I would think I shouldbe or who I should be or should

(18:31):
I just listen and, and do what others tell me to do?
And that's kind of where I just fucking fell in.
I just started, you know, everything was so crazy and I
didn't really have a fucking understanding on how to handle
it. I just decided, you know what,
I'm just going to go with the fucking flow and, and see what
happens. And you know, that's not the

(18:54):
best course of action. It wasn't for me.
But it's kind of just survival at that point.
You know, they're just like, OK,I'm just going to do this
because it's expected of me. Yeah.
I'm curious, where did that, where do you think that pressure
came from or that sense of pressure?
Because I, I don't imagine that anybody specifically said, hey,

(19:18):
Max, we're going to need you to act this way and this is how
you're going to get along, right?
No one, no one, no one sat you down and said, son, this is OK.
So where do you, where do you? It was very visceral.
It was very real for you, right?And you're expressing that.
And it's very clear that at somepoint you realize that like
there's a pressure from the outside and I'm expected to

(19:40):
perform a certain way. And, and so like you assume this
role, but I'm, I'm curious wherethat role came from because you
are in a unique situation compared to a lot of the other
men that I've spoken to who don't, they didn't have males
like siblings and a big family, or they didn't have a father

(20:00):
figure or male role models at all.
And, and so it's, it's fascinating to hear from
somebody who was immersed around, you know, just male
energy. And and it there was this
pressure to just kind of be a certain way, but that pressure

(20:22):
was never like actually ascribedspecifically by somebody wasn't
a request. It wasn't like any of that,
right? No, it was just kind of what
others have done. So I should follow, you know,
it's following in footsteps and and because I didn't really have
any idea on what the fuck I wanted to do, I just kind of did
that. You know, another thing too is

(20:45):
like football is a big thing in our family.
You know, my older brother played college ball.
Family loves it, you know, and Ijust so happened to be a rather
large individual, you know, so it was always expected of me, at

(21:05):
least to me, how I feel like, OK, you're going to play
football, you're going to go to college and play football,
you're going to go, you know, and, and then that's what you're
going to do. Because I was a big dude, you
know, I was, you know, 6 foot two, 280 lbs coming out of
junior high, you know, muscular.I, I, you know, I, I did decent

(21:31):
in the weight room and, and stuff like that, but like a deep
down inside, I didn't give a fuck about football whatsoever.
I had no real desire to be thereotherwise.
Well, my friends are playing andeverybody else is kind of
playing. My family played, so why the
fuck not? And then I noticed people

(21:56):
changing around me when I started the play.
They were nicer to me. You know, I started making more
connections, and I did this thing that I hated because I
thought it made me fit in. And I thought, you know, OK,
this is, you know, what I shoulddo.

(22:18):
Yeah, which is, which is really interesting that you describe a
sense of, hey, I'm going to, I'mgoing to just do this thing
because I think it's the like there's an outward pressure to
do it. And, and no one's actually
telling me or asking me to do it, but I'm going to do it

(22:39):
because it's kind of like it feels like the direction I
should head in based on what I think everyone is expecting.
And and then that extends into into like, I mean, in this, in
this case, football, right. And was there ever any point
where you're like, hey, Dad, I Ijust want to be a ballerina or
something, right? Like, hey, Dad, I actually want

(23:01):
to just like be a businessman orhey, Dad, I want to do I want to
be an artist or like, was there ever any kind of that or, or
like, did anyone ever say like, hey, real proud of you?
We always thought you were goingto be a football player and here
you are making us proud. Or do you see what I'm saying?
Like, was there any open conversation about like what was

(23:22):
happening? The thing was, this is there.
There were. And honestly, had I told them
one day that I didn't want to fucking play anymore, I really
don't think they would have gavea shit.
But for some reason for me, I put this shit in my own mind
that it was a requirement for meor it was what I had to do, you

(23:46):
know, to make people proud. And, you know, my family would
have supported me doing whateverthe fuck, you know, I wanted.
But going back to like the moving and not having any solid
footing, I was just really kind of fucked in the head, man.
And I didn't know what I wanted.So I was just kind of just
making shit up as it goes. You know, it was, it was like

(24:10):
like putting myself into a a fucking movie scenario where,
you know, you got to do this or,you know, if you everybody's
relying on you and you know, andand that wasn't the case, but I
was just kind of fucked in the head.
Yeah, but when you say you were,you know, quote fucked in the
head, was like, are you insinuating that maybe like, was

(24:36):
it like a, was there like a genuine like issue or concern
about mental mental health or was or do you mean more like I
was just kind of like doing a thing and I don't even know
where that came. Oh, no, yeah.
I mean, that's that's I definitely have issues with

(24:56):
mental health and it was probably at the beginning of it.
And a lot of the shit that, you know, came out through over the
years, that part of my life had a lot to do with it And, and,
and, you know, creating scenarios and, and creating
things that weren't there. And I don't know, it was, is it

(25:22):
just, it was, it was weird because it just it, it, I put
more pressure on myself than anybody else would have.
Like I said, if I told everybodyI didn't want to fucking play, I
don't think they really would have cared yet or, or they would
have just asked, you know, why, what's going on?
And, and, but for some reason, in my own little fucking mind, I

(25:47):
created this whole little different world of, of what
needed to be and what had to be.And it's funny because you're
surrounded by all these people all the time, but you're still
kind of by yourself because it'sall, all the chaos, you know?
So you kind of, and then with the interchanging shit all the

(26:08):
time, with the moving and everything and no subtle
grounding, you kind of just create your own little fucking
world, your own little play place in your head.
Gotcha. Do you feel like maybe the like
you're a background character? A lot of the time, yeah.
Yeah. And so was there like some
disassociation based on that like?

(26:32):
This that idea came much later in life, and I've kind of
embraced that. But then it was just like if I
wanted to be important, I neededto make myself important.
But I didn't know if I wanted tobe important or if I wanted to
be fucking anything. I had no idea what I wanted to

(26:55):
fucking be. And I never really had a
conversation with anybody about what I wanted to be.
Or I would bring things up and, and maybe have a little bit of a
motivation, but I had no real backing on it.
Like they would support me, but it was kind of just left to my

(27:16):
own ideas on how to do it and what to do, you know?
And then with my mind, I just, you know, OK, I don't know what
I'm doing. This is stupid.
And so that's that. Right, right.
And so it's, it's there's like anumber of things sounds like
there's going on and, and, and it sounds like there's, there's

(27:39):
a, a lack of support for you, but not, not on purpose.
No, no, not at all. Right, Too much going on.
Right. And so like, that's why I asked
about the, you know, do you feellike a background character And
what, because like, what you're describing to me sounds like,
like a person went through a thing that would otherwise be

(27:59):
normal, but but somehow manifested into a traumatic
event. Do you see what I'm saying?
And, and, and whether purposefulor not, which doesn't sound like
it was on purpose. It just sounds like something
that emerged. And then that your engagement
with the events that happened seem to have transpired into a
in a manner that has LED you to kind of shape and fill the this

(28:27):
void with some role and expectation on what others
perceive. And you're and is it wrong to
think that you're kind of alwayshave feelers out there trying to
like understand what, how you'resupposed to be acting in the
moment and like for people? Yeah, I'm I'm very self aware

(28:49):
when I'm around new people in particular and kind of just like
over analyzing everything and and and trying to.
Fill in the blanks and, and then, you know, kind of just

(29:10):
move my way in there and then and, and fit, fit in and you,
you when you're going through high school and all that shit
and you're just, you don't know what the fuck you're doing.
You know, you have your friends and everything.
And then it's, you know, people you've known for a little while,

(29:32):
but then you have all these other people and all these other
things going on and new trends and new bullshit.
And so I would immediately see something that somebody I
thought I would get along with doing, and then I would try to

(29:52):
adapt to that to try and you know which, which I think is
kind of normal. Yeah, that's what I mean.
I was. About to say man.
Like a lot of what you're describing, honestly, like is is
not only fairly normal, but I know that I experienced it a lot
of that and sometimes I still doand.
But it's it's and and that's thething.

(30:13):
Like I overanalyze it. I'm not like this shit is, is,
is, is essentially basic stuff. But I'm thinking about it still
to this day on why I did certainthings certain ways and then
then why I did it this way. And, and you know, if I didn't
do it this way or, or did it this way, would things be

(30:33):
different? And I think that's that's my
biggest issue with with a lot ofthis shit is the over analyzing
things. Do you think that that sense of
insecurity had? Well, let me let me ask you this
really quick. Was there something you wanted
to be when you were growing up, like, you know, like a fucking

(30:54):
astronaut or an artist or a movie star or a football player
or like, did you like have you know, anywhere between, you
know, the time you were child tothe time you were an adult?
Was there something that you're like, I'm going to be that?
Do you have like some kind of aspiration or dream to be
something? Not really.

(31:17):
Really. Yeah, I just, all I knew is I
wanted to just make enough moneyto where I could live
comfortably and not be bothered.Yeah.
Like like to be able to take myself out of the the world for

(31:40):
a little while if I had to. Right.
So a sense of of belonging and asense of.
Peace and that. And I also wanted to be Macho
Man Randy Savage. I mean, yeah, I mean, that's a
good character, you know what I mean?
That's a solid character to if you, if you had to pick one.
I mean, it's not the worst one. That you could be gold dust.

(32:03):
Yeah, gold dust. Gold dust was fucking awesome.
Gold dust was awesome. That character, holy shit.
My goodness. And and so OK, and so, so like,
let's take these ideas. So now you're faced with this,
this constant sense of like insecurity for lack of better

(32:27):
words and instability rather, I think that's better sense of
instability. I'm sure maybe there's some
insecurity as well if you've gotfeelers out there.
But then, right And I, I feel like both of these are fairly
normal, right? These things kind of keep us on
our toes and kind of like keep us moving in a direction that
might create some kind of an abundance or at least some kind
of moment that allow us to like eat, you know what I mean?

(32:50):
And so. I think, I think, sorry to
interrupt you, but I wanted to bring this up.
I think it's watching people kind of effortlessly glide
through life and everything kindof happens to them and you're
wondering and I think, you know,everything seems to just not

(33:12):
work out for yourself or, or whatever.
You you kind of start stacking those doubts on yourself.
Gotcha. So yeah, go ahead.
Oh, no, no. It's just, you know, that's
another thing I wanted to bring up is watching life happened so

(33:33):
effortlessly to some people, andthen to have Watch Live just
collapse onto fucking people. And then there's me who's just
like there, you know what I mean?
Yeah. Which which one do you think
that you'd fall under if since you've categorized that into
like or have you other Jew? In the middle I, I I'm.

(33:58):
You're right in the middle. I'm creating my own
interference, you know, by by over analyzing and self doubt.
I mean, we, I've had chaotic shit happen, chaos and and and

(34:19):
and traumatic shit happen and it's, it's rough.
Yeah. But I know the yelling process,
you know, I know eventually painfades and, and, you know, you
keep on moving. But I've also had friends and
then people in my life who have just very successful, you know,

(34:43):
and I'm watching them do it. And we all did the same shit.
And you just start questioning, well, what the fuck am I doing
wrong that's not working? Yeah, right.
Ends. Yeah.
How do you you, you grew up around a lot of people and you

(35:07):
obviously had some interests andyou so you had the sense of
like, all right, Well, I know that I, I, I don't know what I
want to be, but I know that I want, I want to feel comfortable
and have a sense of peace and and enough stability that don't
have to worry about things if I don't have to.
Did you have like a hero outsideof Macho Man?

(35:28):
Ready, Savage. Did you have somebody you?
Looked up to maybe maybe it's not even a God, right?
Maybe it's a it's a human being.Did you like maybe because
you're you're around a lot of people.
Did any of those people have a significant influence on you
that like you kind of hung onto and kind of aspired to be?

(35:49):
I, I took aspects from, I, I tried to take the best aspects
from the people that I love and,and use those to, to better
myself. But you also watch amazing
people have flaws and, and that's what I've learned is no

(36:12):
matter how great the appearance,there's always flaws.
There's always things that that make this person no less a great
fucking person, but how they handled them would either
elevate or or or push them down a little bit on how I viewed

(36:33):
them. And my brothers, you know, my
oldest brother, football player,bunch of friends, second oldest
brother, rock star musician, youknow, 3rd oldest brother,
absolute stellar wrestler, sister artist, poetry, all kinds

(36:59):
of shit. You know, my youngest brother,
complete smart ass dickhead, buthe was very talented in his own
way. But every little bit of them,
you know, I would watch and I'd have appreciation for what they
did. But then there was always a

(37:24):
downfall, a negative aspect to it.
And I kind of like starting putting that on to everybody,
you know? So I would realize, OK, this
person that they're showing on the TV or whatever the fuck.

(37:45):
Is this perfect person you know,does everything right and
whatever, But I know that's bullshit because I know there's
something there that's either being hidden or not talked
about. Because if you, if you, if you
are a flawless person, you're a fucking robot.

(38:06):
You know like the IT it doesn't exist, right?
You know, what's interesting is I want to ask you really quick
though, you, you mentioned theseaspects of and these ways to
describe maybe your siblings and, and people you looked up
to. And it's like, my question is
how? How would how would you describe
yourself? You know those floaters you get

(38:35):
in your eye and you wonder wherethe fuck they came from?
That's kind of me in human form.I'm just like, where the fuck
did I come from? No, I mean, I'm I'm.
I'm a kind person, a loyal friend, absolutely adore my

(39:01):
kids, love your. Father.
Yeah, yeah, husband. And I just want to be as
positive of an impact in their lives that I can be.
While I'm like, I, I don't, That's the thing.
I just like for me, I, I don't care.

(39:25):
It's it's, it's the important people in my life that I want to
be important to. Yeah, and it's really funny
because I was just talking to somebody about how we, we have
all of this like energy that goes outward and we try to, you

(39:47):
know, do certain things with life and all of this shit.
And we, we, we aim towards thesegoals and stuff that are like
handed to us or we are, they're perceived as something that is
handed to us or some objective that has no alignment with our
actual true selves or nature or our core values or dreams or
desires or any of that. And we, we, we fucking full send

(40:09):
in some direction and then realize, holy shit, I'm here and
this is to be. I actually miss my fucking train
back there with all the things that I actually care about and.
And what me and this gentleman concluded was that it really is
like the the most meaningful, one of the most meaningful
things you can do is, is first get honest with yourself as a

(40:30):
human being, as a person, as a man, and then do the things that
make you fucking happy. Because like you will literally,
if you literally get hit by a bus right now, it's over.
And and if you didn't do any of the things that made you happy,
what the fuck was the point? Right.
And it's just like, and so like,and like him and I were having
conversations about like, what is?
And so I'm going to ask you like, what is this thing that

(40:52):
that like keeps us guilty as fuck for, for choosing the
things that make us happy? Because you're telling me like,
you know, I, I was kind of like floating around and I was living
in chaos. I didn't know what to do and,
and, and the stuff and, and thenand, and in the same breath,
you're also telling me like, youknow, I have, I'm a father, I'm
a husband, I'm kind and I'm caring, I'm loyal and I'm, I'm

(41:17):
unapologetic about that. And but you're also stating
like, I don't know what I'm doing.
And it's like, it sounds like you're doing the thing that you
should be doing. Right I am, but I doubt it.
Why? Every fucking I have no clue
why. Right, because there's there's a

(41:37):
lot of men who feel the same way.
I felt that way sometimes too, and even even today.
And I just, it's just, I don't know if it's just, I don't know.
It's just you do what you feel is right and you think you have
the fucking answer, man. And you're happy and you're

(41:58):
living life and you know, you'redoing it.
And then all of a sudden that little voice pops in the back of
your head and starts asking these questions and you start
doubting why you're doing or what you're doing it, You know,
and I think the biggest step forus in human evolution is going

(42:20):
to be telling ourselves to fuck off, telling our brains to fuck
off because that's that's our our biggest limitation.
And then my own experience is, is my own brain telling me, OK,

(42:40):
you're doing this, but are you really need to do this?
Why are you doing this? What's what's the point?
You know, you, you, you're doingthis for yourself.
You're doing this to have fun. You're doing this for whatever
reason. And you, you all of a sudden you
just got like this Jewish motherin your fucking head telling you
how bad you are for, for doing something that you, you know,

(43:05):
enjoy. I think that's normal though.
Oh, I think. It's normal, like for myself, I
can only speak for myself like and I, I know I've talked about
that. I'm not trying to set myself up
on this unique fucking snowflakepedestal or whatever, I'm just
explaining how I'm thinking and I I do understand that it is

(43:26):
completely normal and that's kind of like the process, but
it's still fucking weird. Yeah, no.
And there's there's a lot of dudes who who who feel that way
and think that they're alone. And you know, I, I'm one of like
my biggest critics ever. Like there's, there's probably
nothing that you can tell me that's going to hurt my feelings
more than the fucking feelings that I've hurt myself on.

(43:47):
You know what I mean? Like I I do pretty good job of
but there's. Nothing.
You're going to tell me that I haven't fucking told myself 10
times worse already, buddy. So have.
Yeah, yeah. And it's just like this, this
self doubt as dudes. I think that like it's, it's
normal to contend with that and it's also normal to like, you

(44:09):
know, kind of check yourself along the way.
I mean like, hey, like, why am Idoing this?
Because if I'm doing it for the wrong reasons, maybe that's a
good indicator and a good time to fucking be like, hey, maybe I
should do something else by timeand energy, right?
And and then on top of that, there is this other thing that
you've identified that seems to be also a constant in the way
that we and we're mostly generalizing here, right?

(44:31):
But like in how how we seem to be able to so effortlessly
construct people into that thesethese magnificent gods and and
we've and it's like the minute that we view them as humans,
it's like such a fucking disappointment.
And it's like, but yeah, but it wasn't like they were ever gods.

(44:51):
They were always human. You just like, didn't see it
that way for some reason. And suddenly it's like the
perfectionism is gone. And it's like, but why do we
constantly strive for perfectionism, even like in the
idea that God constructed the world in his image?
And he only says, like, it was good, right?
Like he, he, he made, he made the world and everything he

(45:12):
constructed as good enough. And it was never like, that was
perfect. It was just good, right?
And, and so we're constantly like searching for this like
state of Eden, right? Like the Garden of Eden and and
like, like it's some place you go to and then you sit there
and, and what really it is and is like it's a state of being

(45:34):
rather than a place of being. No, yeah, it's it's.
And when you come down to it andyou think about it, that shit is
going to be the most boring fucking place you've ever been
into your entire life. After about a week or so.
The best time you're ever going to fucking have in your life is

(45:56):
with the people that you're surrounded with, Building that
even. Right.
And the times you spend with them and, and the conversations
you have and, and you know the life you live amongst that time
as you're building it. And you're not building the Eden
for yourself. You're building it for others,

(46:18):
for the, the future to have it easier.
And, but, and that's, that's another thing too, is like we
talk about perfection and perfection is different in the
views of every single person. So no matter how great or how
perfect you get it, somebody's going to want to change.
It right, and in a world where everything's like, most things

(46:40):
are just like socially constructed and social contracts
and, and just relative handshakes between people to
keep and and maintain order, it's like we're just literally
fucking warping on everything, right.
And so everything really is subjective.
And, and so it's fascinating to kind of try to have this

(47:02):
argument in, in the social, likein the public sphere about, you
know, how we should be living our lives and how people should
be living and like getting on the same fucking train or
whatever. And, and I don't think that like
that really is constructive way of going about it because we're,
we're basically arguing about, you know, which fucking ice

(47:24):
cream flavour is better instead of like trying to like really
buckle down on the, on the fundamental stuff, the things
that are important, right, like.Like do people?
Have housing. It's like well fuck the housing
bro, what colour is it going to be?
And it's like, well, that's stupid.
That's a Is there going to be HOA?
Yeah, I'm out. And I'm definitely.
I have no fucking part of that. But no, it's it's it's it's

(47:49):
situation should be. Hold on, like HOA is Oh my God,
dude, don't get me started. I I don't want to, but like HOA
should be illegal under the 13thamendment.
I'm just saying. Oh yeah, life happiness or life
liberty, The pursuit of happiness and decent HOA.

(48:12):
It's decent HOA, no HOA is fucking God.
Anyways, but I didn't tell. Really.
No, no, it's fun. But we, we, you know, we talk
about Eden, but it's going to have to be constructed like a
fucking Disney theme park because not everybody's going to
be the same. Yeah, somebody's going to want,

(48:33):
you know, s'mores every day and then some people aren't and then
somebody's going to want a fucking orgy pit and some people
are not going to be around sex at all.
So, you know, it's all going to be different, every little
aspect. So you're, you're, you're
literally building. If you're going to build Eden,
you need the subsection into 8 billion different places because

(48:53):
that's that's pretty much how it's got to be.
You said Garden Eden has needs aSection 8, is that what you
said? A.
Section 8. Yeah, and Garden of Eden.
No, I said subsections. Subsections, yeah.
Gotcha. 8 billion subsections. 8billion subsections.

(49:16):
Gotcha. I thought you said Section 8.
I was like, oh that's an interesting take, fuck you.
Gotta get that it's not free housing and even took us a lot
of time and money and resources to build it now come on.
What? So, OK, so you're, you're

(49:37):
looking for sort of some sense of, of equilibrium.
You're trying to find homeostasis, you're trying to
balance everything out and you're and you're doing it in a
manner that you know that with some understanding that shit's
just constantly chaotic. But and then there's like this

(49:58):
outside external pressure to perform and and there's also
like the keeping up with the Joneses shit and all of that.
And so you mentioned that you'remarried, so your husband and
then you have children. And how, how does that like, how
did that come about? Like was.
Well, you see, when a man, yeah.Yeah.

(50:22):
He gets a special feeling and you know, there's some friction.
No, it's just, you know, I was. Was it, was it like first time,
first time, you know, first timewe went on a date that was the
one or, or did it take some, some trial and error and you
know. Oh, no.
There, there was trial and error.

(50:43):
But I knew when I met her, it was, it was a different
experience than than everybody else I've been with.
Yeah, there was. It was just, and it was, it was
just, it felt like she honestly felt the same way I felt about

(51:06):
her. She felt about me the same way I
felt about her. And in that aspect, it kind of
just all fluid, you know, It just kind of all fell into place
that way. Do you, do you think that I
mean, like, were you looking or,or was it just kind of one of

(51:28):
those like your head fell out ofyour ass one day and you're
like, oh, the keys were in my pocket the whole time.
No, yeah. I mean, it was just, it started
out as a just a regular date and, you know, it just worked.

(51:48):
And, and you, you find that comfort when you find that
comfort with another individual,you know, you want to, you know,
keep them around. Yeah, you know you want to
shout. Oh, you'll hang out on the show.
And then OK, so then you and when they.
Do a yeah when they do a duet and karaoke, it's all fucking

(52:09):
open. Did you get married like young?
25 years old, 25. Years old and you knew at 25
this is the one. Yeah, I mean, I knew that I

(52:33):
didn't care to look for anybody else after her.
So, you know, and she, she lovedme.
How did you know? How did you know that she loved
you? She went out of her way to take
care of you. Instead of just, you know, take.

(53:00):
She actually went out of her waywhen I got sick.
She would come over and help me when I was dealing with shit.
She would talk to me and it was always a shared communication
and always on the ground we werefinding with one another and we
could talk about things that happened in our lives without

(53:22):
judgment and and still want to be around you one another when
those conversations were over. Would you say that that maybe a
good partner or the right type of partner sees the humanity in
you like the actual like person and engages with that?

(53:44):
Because I always think that like, you know, the ideal
partner is the way that I describe it is like the closest
to God I've ever been, right? And it's such a it seems like
the only appropriate way to describe it for myself.
Yeah, it's just, you know. Did you know that you always

(54:04):
wanted to be a father? Not necessarily.
I knew if like I had kids, it was fine.
If I didn't have kids, it was going to be fine.
And so just, you know, one of those go with the flow aspects
of it, you know? Yeah.

(54:24):
How old were you when you becamea father?
26 years old. Oh, so you guys just went for
it? Yeah.
Yeah. Were you excited?
Yeah, were you? Scared was there.
Fear, terrified and more scared too, because she was premature.

(54:45):
And so like, Oh my God, I was working about 400 miles away at
the time and she was staying outhere with my, my mom and I was
up, up in the Central Valley working.
And I got a call that she started labor and it was about

(55:07):
two months early. And so, you know, I jumped in
the car, headed up and I got there and I got to the room and
the hospital was just fucking a mess.
They didn't know, they didn't seem to know what they were
doing. I'm guessing they didn't know
what they were doing. But it just, you know, when
you're not in that fucking mindset, everything is like

(55:28):
irritating you and you're concerned about your kid, you're
concerned about your wife. And then so they take her in.
They had to do AC section. They take her in, I'm in there
with her. They get the baby out and they
tell me, you know, OK, everything's OK.
And then my daughter's tiny and they put her into the NICU and

(55:52):
they will are in there. And I, you know, I tell my wife
I love her and I go into the NICU and I'm sitting with my
daughter and all of a sudden we get a loud code blue in the
fucking in the NICU and I hear anurse run past me and says, Oh
my God, the wife. And so I am like, I've never

(56:18):
felt such a like sadness and anger, like every fucking
emotion run through you like crazy.
And I'm just like, fucking like thinking about everything that's
going to fucking happen now, youknow, because I'm thinking my
wife is, you know, what the fuckis going on there?

(56:39):
Is she dying or what the fuck? Turns out somebody backed into
the fucking button in the room. Oh.
So nothing happened, like nothing was going on.
Everything was. Fine.
You're obviously we're dealing with a lot of fear and anxiety
about what's going on. Did you did you pray or what was

(57:00):
going through your head? Do you believe in God?
That was I am not a believer in any of the current organized
religions. I do not.
I'm not an atheist diagnostic, agnostic, I guess would describe

(57:24):
me a little bit better. I believe that the what is it
design is a possibility. I think there's just different
aspects to it. I don't think it's an old man
with a beard in control of everything and just, you know,

(57:47):
using US as marionettes. I don't believe that the Bible
or the Koran or the all those other things aren't just
writings of men trying to figurethings out in a world that, you

(58:08):
know, that kind of fit what was going on through the world at
their time. But I'm not against the notion
of intelligent design. And I did pray what?
Were you praying to? I don't fucking know anything
that was listening. I guess I think it was just good

(58:33):
at the time to get words out. Interesting.
I just, yeah, it's just, it was just.
Yeah. So everything was OK.
Yeah. And your daughter?
You right. Yeah, she was fine.
She's fine a month and 1/2 in the NICU and then we got to

(58:57):
bring her home. But yeah, I mean, it's just, you
know, it's weird because, you know, you bring it up and I'm
not particularly religious, but I did shout into the universe
and I did, you know, put it out there.
So, yeah, well, it's because onething I'm and it's not not to

(59:20):
pick on you, it's just because I've, I've experienced this
myself and, and it, I think in retrospect, kind of
understanding it, it really helped me kind of understand
like maybe there's something outthere.
I don't know what it is. And, and we intuitively, like in
times of distress or times of fear or times of like turmoil,

(59:40):
just generally speaking, like, you know, in times of death,
times of, but things are just sofucking out.
It's out of our control. And we don't know what to do
except like, is some, some reason God becomes or like, I
don't know, like the, the, the notion of like, I don't know
what governs this universe. But if you're out there and
you're listening, please fuckinghelp me.
Yeah, exactly. And that seems.

(01:00:02):
To play a role why I honestly have, I honestly think it's a
good thing for people to do that.
I even if it's just a therapeutic thing or if there
are, you know, beings listening or a being listening or, or
whatever. I think it's just something that

(01:00:24):
we're driven to do because the, whatever it is has gotten
outside of our control as a human, you know, and we don't,
you can't really just grab somebody next to you and scream
to their face, please help me because that's not going to
fucking do anything. You know what I mean?

(01:00:46):
You're just going to scare the shit out of some poor bastards
that next to you. But that, and that's, that's,
that's one thing I want to tell you.
Like I have absolutely 0 problems with people going to
church, people praying, people dedicating their lives to a
religion or, or, or God or, or any of that.

(01:01:10):
You know, I just have my own self doubts on the matter and
then a lot of questions about it.
And so I, I just choose not to participate because of what I'm
thinking or feeling at the time.That doesn't mean I don't talk
to the cosmos. I don't, you know, speak if it's

(01:01:30):
to myself when I'm laying in bedat night to things that I think
may or may not be out there. But just sometimes it's nice to
have somebody who, in quotation marks is listening.
Right. Without feeding you anything
back. Yeah, I mean, I've said it a
million times and I've shared about my experiences, like on

(01:01:52):
the show and stuff. And it's, I, I mean, I grew up,
I grew up Catholic and I've, youknow, you know, mostly stayed
around the Christianity stuff, but like, that only really
lasted until I was like in my teens and then, you know, I kind
of revisited as an adult, but more from a spiritual aspect.
And to me, it's, I can't, I think they're all right and

(01:02:16):
they're all wrong in their own way.
As far as religious goes, religion goes in the structures
behind like the belief structures and, and the
organization of all. And I think that just
fundamentally speaking, there's,they're like the relationship
with God is a very personal 1, whatever that may be.

(01:02:40):
And, and then the, the communitysense is how we experience God
together. And that is meant to to to
facilitate community and. Community.
Is. So fucking important.
Right, it's super important for support of all kinds, right And
but like mostly speaking like I I something it's hard.

(01:03:05):
I've seen too much evidence in my own life and maybe it's like,
maybe I'm just a fucking crazy person or maybe there's, you
know, I'm playing tricks on myself and I want to play
something that doesn't exist. I don't fucking know, man.
But like I and and with people and I openly talk about my
experiences and like highlight them when they're happening so
that when the unexplainable is or occurring that it's like I'm

(01:03:30):
not making it up. Like there's some things that I
just don't know what the fuck itwas man.
And like, and even just like people talking to me sometimes
it's like, well, it's just like a random coincidence this person
haven't talked to you at this time.
And it's like, it's just, maybe you just got lucky.
Maybe it's just serendipity. And it's like, fucking maybe,
dude. But like whatever it was, it was
so fucking impactful. It was so fucking impactful to

(01:03:53):
me that like it seriously changed like my life.
And, and it's like, I can't dismiss that.
No, I just can't. No, I and, and like, like I'm
saying then I have no disrespectfor anybody who, who does it and

(01:04:13):
and believes in it and goes for it.
I just don't like the hierarchy of the churches and how certain
people go about it and and certain religious leaders go
about it. And it just seems very fucking

(01:04:36):
manipulative. And I think, I think that's
probably my biggest issue with organized religion.
Right is. And.
Power. You see like these Joel Osteen's
or that one fucking demon eyed bastard who keeps buying planes.
And I saw one guy who locked hishis his people in the church

(01:05:00):
until they raised enough money for him to buy a new car or some
shit like this. And it's like.
Right. But it but then that can just be
a driving force to push people away from it.
And I understand that, you know,and it's it's the common man,

(01:05:22):
the individual. I want them to have their
experiences and have their religion and have their life and
their pursuit of whatever it is right.
I don't want people to feel likethey have to fucking do it,
otherwise they're going to burn in hell.

(01:05:43):
Right. I mean, I've already said it,
I've already cleared that one up.
I mean, I think people overcomplicate that shit.
And and it's like you like, I'm not going to be unconvinced
about like the path if you, if you believe in like the
Christian versions of these things.
It's like, it's like, it's very clear to me that it was Jesus
died on the cross for everyone'ssins.

(01:06:04):
And the gift, God's gift to man was like, you know, the passage
to, to fucking, you know, to heaven and the cross was like
the, the payment for any sins. And it's like in the analogy I
always use, it's like, if you and me go to fucking Applebee's
and I pick up the tab, what tab are you going to pick up?

(01:06:25):
I already paid for everything, right?
And so like this, this. And that's where like the the
structure of the church is just a fucking is, is like a non
starter for me as far as like what a person needs to do to get
into heaven, right? And now I'm going to forever
equate you to Applebee's Jesus. Well, that's a right.

(01:06:49):
Like I I imagine the Last Suppermight have taken place at an
Applebee's table, right? Oh.
Brother where he called those fucking appetizers.
Oh shit. That's so fucking funny.
That's funny. I hope somebody makes a a
painting of this at Applebee's. Jesus.
Yeah, that's fucking funny. And I just I I just can't help

(01:07:12):
but like the notion of like. Judas and the Tchotchkes
discovering his fucking Room 0. My God, I I just like the idea
that God is just such a fucking like curmudgeon dude.
Like out there in the fucking inthe cosmos, just like all these
fucking humans, you fucking, youbetter pay attention, right?

(01:07:35):
Like it's just, it's so fucking human.
That's a such a human petty thing to do.
Absolutely. Like it's so weird.
And, and that's why I come aboutwith like the certain writings
and and shit like that. It all just comes across to me
as some asshole writing it. That's all it is, man, right?
And it's, and it's the same reason that fucking cults always

(01:07:55):
revolve around like, you know, fucking each other.
And it's just like, because it'sjust some fucking asshole trying
to like, impose his will on other people, do some fucking
backdoor thing because he's a fucking coward.
Power, it's, it's power and thatfucking thrill you get and
having control of her people and, and, and to be able to tell

(01:08:18):
somebody to do something and they fucking do it, you know?
Right. The pretending people are God's
thing. Yeah, it's super fascinating.
So you had a you had a child, your father.
Now what? You have more than one child,
Correct? Yeah, I have two, two. 222

(01:08:42):
daughters and did you kind of get a hold of the fatherhood
thing, you know, before the second one came around or like,
were you still kind of, you know, building the plane as you
were flying? Building the plane as it's
flying. But I had a lot of experiences
with siblings, children and and being around young kids a lot

(01:09:09):
because of the nephews and nieces coming over.
Right, big family and all. That family, so you always had
that shit there. You kind of knew how to hang out
with them, communicate with themand then so that kind of made
the the young part of it easier to come.
Up right. So a lot of support, how how

(01:09:32):
important. I mean, like obviously you, you,
I want to venture to guess that you had maybe some, some doubts
and securities as you know, a father, especially like a new
father, right? Even even with all the support,
maybe you know, you're like, fuck, am I, Am I doing this
whole dad thing correctly? Am I fucking up?

(01:09:54):
Did you have any of that kind ofgoing on?
Yeah, absolutely. You always think about that and
you always think about just the little things that they're doing
if they're not like at certain levels and then school or
whatever. And you start thinking, well,
how did I fuck this up? What did I do?
What do I need to do to improve it?

(01:10:14):
And then you, you start to really think about it and it's
like it's just kind of is what it is.
You know, you support them and they'll catch up and you help
them along the way to get to where they need to be.
And it doesn't really matter if it takes them a little bit
longer in their journey, just kind of get them there.

(01:10:36):
What do you what do you think? Well, two questions here.
Do you think that like a man hasto experience or be a father in
order to be like a real man? Quote No.
OK, what do you think makes a good father?

(01:10:57):
Taking everything that you didn't hear as a child that you
thought would have been good to hear and good advice and giving
that to your kids. Being supportive.
Being supportive, understanding.Tell them the things that you

(01:11:18):
wanted to hear but didn't, and know that you're going to have
their back. What do you think the role
between the father and the mentor is?
Right? Because I, I tend to view those
two as different things, right? Like the father is, is, is a
very specific role and the mentor is a very specific role.

(01:11:39):
Do you think there's some overlap there and?
There can be. I think it's just all dependent
on what the child needs in thosemoments.
They need somebody to be more ofa father, the mentor can provide
that. If they need somebody to be just
more of a Big Brother, the mentor can provide that kind of
adaptability of that type of responsibility.

(01:12:05):
It's fair enough. Was there any particularly like
particular struggle that you canidentify in your life like that
may be related to your identity as a male and as a man
specifically that you're just like, I don't know how to
contend with this maybe outside of the the things that we

(01:12:27):
identified in your childhood or just specifically like just a
gnarly adverse event in your life like that you you struggle
to overcome. Yeah, the the death of my sister
was a huge event that fucked with me for a long time and I

(01:12:47):
really didn't like people for the longest time.
After that, I kind of just disassociated.
I was kind of, I was kind of a prick in that period.
How old were you when that happened?
I was 21 years old. OK.

(01:13:10):
And I just had a lot of misplaced anger.
She was older than you. Yeah.
OK. She was 26 when she passed and
that like I was just anger, a lot of anger, you know, and, and

(01:13:34):
frustration and, and fear just kind of similar to what I was
going through with my daughter. And The thing is just kind of
all those emotions all at once. But it persisted for a while.
Something. So far it's out of your control.

(01:13:54):
Yeah, absolutely. And it persisted for a while
because those things do. And, you know, I wasn't very
nice to a lot of people in in that in that period of time.
What do you think was I mean, the loss of of, you know, a

(01:14:17):
loved one is always a terrible like Fisher in in one's life.
But what, what do you think was particularly at the heart of the
anger that you're experiencing and pain, really?
Pain, you know, pain, fear, all that shit I said before is just

(01:14:41):
it, all the accumulation of everything.
And the only way I expressed it was just through anger.
Not the necessarily that I was angry, I just expressed it
through anger. You know, I, I was angry, I was
sad. I was fucking devastated and
lost and confused and, and all those fucking things.

(01:15:02):
And so I saw it best at the timeto see fit to just say fuck you
to everybody. How did you, I mean, you, you
never really get over stuff likethis right in one shape or or
form or another. And it's.
Like it's, it's like a candle that burns in tents at first and

(01:15:24):
then slowly starts melting away.But it never the thing with
death though, is it never goes out.
It's it's always there and you remember it, but the intenseness
is is not near what it was. Right.
Was there something specific that like allowed you to maybe
heal a little bit and move forward that might be able to

(01:15:46):
help somebody who might be goingthrough something similar?
Yeah, I I stopped misplacing my anger, started reconnecting with
people and community and friendsand, you know, learning and, and
realizing that I still had my life to live.

(01:16:06):
Right. Was there ever a point in your
life where where like you were struggling to change, but you
knew you had to change as a as aman, as a person, a situation
that maybe like you're like, OK,this old version of me is just
not fucking working. And I need, you know, I need to,

(01:16:30):
I need to move in any direction.Maybe there's a new job.
Maybe it's like something in a relation in the relationship or
you know, something specific to you, your family.
Can you explain to me what that situation was and how that
unfolded? Well, let me tell you this,
There's two times in my life that I've lost over 100 lbs.
OK, over 100 / 100 lbs. OK.

(01:16:52):
One point my highest I was 427 lbs.
I went dieting lost. I think I went down to 315.
My God. And then I bucked my back up.
Wait, wait, wait. Congratulations on on the the

(01:17:13):
1st 100 lbs. Yeah, very nice, very nice.
I get collapse. Yeah, OK, continue.
You hurt your back. Hurt my back, which is, you
know, obviously from all the shit having all that weight on
me, you know, and then I went through a spot of depression and
some shit and I, I gained a lot of that weight back.

(01:17:37):
One point I was like, this shit's not going to fucking fly.
I'm not only going to fix it if I do it myself.
And then so I did the diet againand I did what exercise I could
and I went from 396 lbs to 272 lbs.
Very nice. Congratulations, Sir.

(01:17:58):
Sir. OK, so from top, top to bottom,
what did we we started at 4:00. What?
27. 4:27 to 3:00 to 3:15. Yeah, and then I went back to
390 and then I went down to 3 or278 lbs.
So we went from 427 to 278. Yeah.

(01:18:23):
Holy shit. And then I had I, I, I was one
of the moments after that I decided I wanted to change.
So I went to work and I started working at a manufacturing plant
out here where I live. It's doing very well.

(01:18:43):
Promotion, you know, all that shit.
Had my own little office space and then I had two severe
herniated, herniated discs in myneck and basically I was on the

(01:19:03):
verge of just a wrong move. That dog gets it.
I was just the wrong move, wrongturn.
I could have went paralyzed. I had a point where I was
driving home one night and my arms went completely fucking
numb. Couldn't fill them.

(01:19:24):
Scared. This is all.
This is all out of weight related.
Well, weight related. Part of it, yeah, because I was
so heavy for so long and but theneck injury is partly of that.
But it's also some type of catastrophic thing that I did at

(01:19:45):
some point. And I don't know how or when I
did it, but yeah. So I had to go in for immediate
surgery. I had to put pins in my neck and
and metal in my neck and kind ofjust went back in through all

(01:20:05):
the bullshit. And so, you know, I'm back at a
new starting point where I have to start making changes again
and doing things again. You know, it's, it's and doctors
advised me not to do anything really fucking physical.
Sitting in a chair for long periods of times is just fucking

(01:20:27):
insufferable. But you know, I'm trying to do
different things now, like swimming and, and, and all that
shit. So it's just, it's, it's another
back step on the roller coaster that I've, I've been living.
But I'm going to get back down to it again, you know, because I
know I will. Yeah, I mean, that's got to be

(01:20:51):
particularly devastating, right?In, in the sense that like when
we're talking about health issues, just generally speaking,
we can even just, you know, pickone, right?
We, if we pick even like the, the weight side of this or, and,
or if we just pick, you know, the devastating debilitation
that comes with, you know, herniated discs and, and, and,

(01:21:14):
you know, musculoskeletal issues, right?
Those, those by themselves are, are pretty gnarly and, and hard
to deal with depending on the severity and most in, in it on
the extreme side, it's, it's particularly difficult to deal
with and to cope with. But to combine those two
together and, and we're talking about quality of life on top of

(01:21:35):
like meaning and purpose and theway that we engage in the world.
Like how do you, how do you dealwith that?
Like how? Baby sex and like, is it you got
to just you just one step at a time, just keep your legs
moving. That's all you really can
fucking do. You know, it's just you

(01:21:56):
visualize moving your legs and just keep moving them and moving
them. No matter what you're doing, how
how it's going, just keep movingand you're going to deal with
shit you really don't want to fucking deal with or don't have
the energy to deal with. But you got to keep your legs
moving them. Yeah.

(01:22:21):
And there's, there's this on thethe other side of this.
It's like you're, you're dealingwith health issues, you know, on
the weight side, it's something that could, you know,
potentially just take you out atany point.
And it's like, do you think about that as a father and as a
person and. Like the way that.

(01:22:42):
You engage with family because family is so close to you.
Yeah, that's the reason I lost 100 lbs twice.
That's the reason I'm going to lose another fucking 100.
You know, it's just that's that's the main fucking reason.
Because if it was just me, I don't think I'd really give a
shit. You know, it would just, it'd
be, yeah, I may do it. I may not do it just depends on

(01:23:03):
my motivation for the day. But for the girls, for my wife,
you know, for my family, yeah, I'll do it again.
And I'll keep fucking doing whatI have to do until I reach a
point where I'm a semblance of OK.
Yeah, it's, it's fascinating that you bring up, you know,

(01:23:27):
this analogy of life being kind of a roller coaster because it's
like some people will be like, yeah, life's a roller coaster.
And like it, it comes from an aspect of like life kind of
sucks. And then and then there's other
people, you know, that are like,oh, life's a roller coaster.
You just kind of put your hands up and enjoy it.

(01:23:47):
Right. So it's.
It's like it's a fascinating. There's some people who don't
understand why they're on the fucking ride at all.
There's some people who are on the ride and they fucking
absolutely detest it. There's some people who are on
the ride and they're enjoying every little fucking bit of it.

(01:24:08):
And the reality of it is what weall got a kind of look at it is
is it's all a ride. You know, to quote Mr. Bill
Hicks, just a ride. You know, there's the UPS, the
downs, the drops in the stomachs, the kicks in the nuts,

(01:24:32):
you know, or yeah, it's just, it's, it's kind of like a ride.
We're here, we're on it. Might as well enjoy it while
we're here best we can, you know?
Fair enough. If life ended for you right now,

(01:24:57):
how do you think you'd be remembered?
I'd be remembered well by my loved ones.
I think there's a lot of positive things in my life that
we've all experienced together. Anybody else?

(01:25:18):
I don't know nor really care, but my girls would miss me, my
wife would miss me, my family would miss me.
And yeah. What do you think is the biggest

(01:25:40):
lesson you learned as a man in your life?
As a man, As a man, try your best not to shit on other people
because you just don't know whatthey're going through in that
fucking moment. You know, a smile or a dirty

(01:26:02):
look can go a lot of different fucking ways for somebody in one
moment. So like, stay in your lane.
Like stay in your lane. Don't go out of your way to be a
fucking prick. That's fair, yeah.
Yeah. Is there anything you're in

(01:26:27):
good? No, just don't go out of your
way to be a prick. Don't go out of your way to get
in people's fucking business. Do your best to prop folks up
and and and make life better. Just in general.
Is there anything in your life that you feel like you need to
accomplish before you die? No.
No, you're just, you're on the, you're on the ride.

(01:26:49):
You're doing the thing. I'm doing the thing, man.
And I just, you know, if something positive happens, it
happens. If something negative happens,
it happened. In your in your opinion, then,
what is the most important contribution a man can make to
the world before he dies? Competing and winning a chili
cook off. That's the best thing I've heard

(01:27:16):
so far for that question. That's funny.
Yeah, I mean, you compete and you achieve your manhood because
you did it. You competed, you win, and then
you ascend to that top fucking level of manhood, man.
You got your fucking ribbon. You got, you know, people
talking about your food, all youget asked for it.

(01:27:41):
It seems it seems fair. What does it mean to have or to
live a good life to you? What does that look like?
Contentness and no matter what it plucking is just if you're,
you know, fading away into the darkness and you look up and say
I'm fine with it, then you're good brother.

(01:28:05):
Any any advice or suggestions you can give a young man who's
just starting out on his his life's journey and who may be
listening to this and may be struggling with his own issues
or or or maybe struggling to find direction?
You're always going to doubt yourself no matter what you

(01:28:26):
know, and if you're not doubtingyourself, you may want to take a
step back and re evaluate some things.
Self doubts, good, but you can'tlet it stop you.
You can't let it be the thing that keeps you from doing the
things you want and the stuff you want to achieve.
If that's important to you, go for it.
Keep your legs moving. I don't.

(01:28:48):
Is there anything you're you're working on, any, any, anything
you're trying to put out there into the world and any social
media you want people to follow you on?
No, I don't do social media. I hope everybody has a pleasant
life and I just, you know, it's like fucking Bill and Ted's
excellent adventure, man. Just be excellent to one

(01:29:08):
another. Be kind to be giving, build your
community, make things good around you and that you know
vibrates throughout the rest of the world just starts starts at
home. Yeah, here's a good one.
In your experience as a man, wasthere ever anything that was

(01:29:33):
like the biggest lie about what it means to be a man?
Like, for example, like if you don't lift, if you can't bench
press 400 lbs, you're not a man,Right?
It's like, do you remember any of those things?
Does one stick out particularly to you or like, men aren't
supposed to cry or things like that?
Yeah. That type of bullshit man, like
the don't cry, hide your emotions and all that shit.

(01:29:57):
Now. I don't mean, you know, go and
be fucking screaming at the world with tears in your eyes
because shit's not fair because that's just nonsensical.
But it's fucking OK to cry. It's OK to let the world know
you're in pain and it's OK to bein pain.

(01:30:19):
You just be aware of it and be be aware of how you're feeling
and express it. And just like, yeah, if you
can't bench 400 fucking pounds, dude, people don't know how hard
that is. Jesus Christ.
Then like fuck, it's difficult. Is there anything during this

(01:30:44):
interview that I did not ask you, that I wish that you wish I
would have asked you? No, I just, you know, enjoyed
our time together. It was, it was fun talking with
you, man. It's fun to just sit down and
and kind of just let the voice go, you know, let whatever
stream of consciousness come outof you.

(01:31:05):
And, and I enjoyed this. I enjoyed this a lot.
Awesome. Any, any final words of wisdom
or any final thoughts you'd liketo share before we we wrap up
here? Reflect that chili recipe, my
man. It'll change your life.
Max, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your

(01:31:29):
experience as a man in this world.
I sincerely wish you and your family all the best on your
journey ahead, Sir. Absolutely, man, it's been a
pleasure to be here with you. Peace and prosperity to you and
to your listeners and to everybody else.
And, you know, love one another.