Jakub – Big Tech Startups, Bad Breakups, Casual Sex, Mental Health, and Esoteric Spirituality Awakenings - STAG

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
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(00:24):
Thanks for your support. Now here's the interview.
All right, Jacob. So we're just going to go into
it from here. And absolutely.
Why don't we just start where? Where you are in the world as a
person, as a human and geographically, like, how old
are you? What do you do for work?
All the standard meet and greet you do with anybody you you are

(00:46):
trying to introduce yourself to.So why don't we start there?
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
So my name is Jacob. Jacob.
I live in UK, London. I'm 42 years old.
I'm in sales. I'm a chief commercial officer
at the London startup. We do hardware products, product

(01:06):
development, stuff like that. I've been here for eight years
now, so I'm a dual citizen, British Polish.
I've recently broken up with my girlfriend.
It was a whole thing. We can double click on it maybe
a bit later, but that kind of snowballed into a, a, a, a very

(01:33):
rapid process of, of rediscovery, self growth,
reinventing myself. So I'm in a very scary but
exciting place in my life, just trying to kind of live every day
to the fullest. And yeah, I, I, I'm happy to

(01:54):
share my story with you, with you, with your audience.
Yeah, exciting to be here. Yeah, I know that's super
exciting. That's a that's pretty cool.
It's a Polish the we are definitely going to touch on the
the breakup thing because that seems to be a theme with some of
the dudes I'm talking to just generally.

(02:15):
And it seems to be the long termrelationships that end in like
complete disaster. And then the men are kind of in
this situation where they're trying to like reorient
themselves in the world and kindof like pick up their, you know,
their ass from the floor really and kind of just find a path
again. And I find that there's

(02:36):
something really interesting about that because I think I've
been there on some level, But I want to get back to like the the
cultural part here. And you said you were Polish.
And I know that like most cultures kind of shape some kind

(02:56):
of identity of manhood. And there's like this, you know,
this, this coming of age thing that happens like a ritual
within within specific cultures.Does does the Polish culture
have one of those? Well, no, I, I guess maybe let,
let me kind of step back from the question because it's, it's
fascinating and a question that I, I think about a lot.

(03:19):
You're absolutely right. A lot of tribal, more kind of
primal cultures, more kind of cultures connected to the earth
have these rituals. And I think in the Western world
we have completely forgotten about them.
Maybe the Jewish community has something with the bar Mitzvah.

(03:39):
Yeah, definitely. I don't think Christianity,
well, Christianity has has its version, but I don't think it's
as celebrated. So yeah, to to maybe kind of
summarize, no, Poland doesn't really have anything of of the
sort. Yeah.
So then I guess maybe as do you,do you see that maybe like your

(04:04):
your background in is your like how you want yourself in the
world and how you come into the world as a Polish man just in
and you're in London now, correct, you said.
Yeah. How does that is, do you see any
like like maybe feeling like an outsider at all in in London as

(04:24):
a Polish man? Totally.
OK, so this this is going to be a bit weird.
I will now answer the question that you answered.
Asked me a second. Ago.
I think, I think this is a greatquestion about like coming of
age and, and my journey as a manin general.

(04:44):
So it wasn't like it wasn't an official ritual, but it was just
something that happened sort of.So I lived with my parents up to
the age of 28. And.
We probably we won't have time to go over.
I know primary school, secondaryschool, whatever.
But at the age of 28, I just gottired of of the the social

(05:08):
circle I was part in. Same party, same faces, week in,
week out, same hobbies, same conversations.
I. Found that to be very kind of
tiring and I just didn't know how to place myself in that
context. I, I, I, I, I was lost.

(05:30):
I was kind of disconnected. I, I, I know, I started to kind
of look down on my friends. I didn't kind of hate them, but
just like I felt out of place. So I I travelled to to Prague,
Czech Republic. I got a job there.
I worked for Oracle as a business development consultant.

(05:53):
The tech company Oracle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, nice. I wonder that I've seen the news
a lot recently, so one of the same.
So I was like a top of funnel sales Rep that was responsible
for qualifying opportunities formore senior salespeople.
I. Was reasonably successful in

(06:15):
that role and got promoted and went to Dublin, Ireland.
I was appointed A-Team leader. I was granted a team of I
believe 13 people at the time. I was nowhere near ready for
that role. I was completely out of my

(06:35):
depth, which kind of led me to being made redundant.
So just to kind of give you a bit of a timeline, in Prague I
spent I think six months in Dublin close to a year after
being made redundant. I took the redundancy money and

(06:56):
pursued an MBA in University College Dublin, Smurford
Business School. I moved to Cork, Ireland.
The MBA was a huge kind of dreamof mine.
It went OK. I, I, I passed, I, I graduated.
I think I graduated with either first class owners or or second
class owners, I forget. That's awesome.

(07:19):
Yes, but I also felt out of place.
I also, it was as as not sure how much you know about an MBA
situation, but it's a very network focused place.
You, you, you go there, you socialise.
You want to build those lifelongfriendships and and
relationships. I mean, I think that's the most

(07:40):
the useful part of college, justgenerally speaking.
Yeah. Everything, everything else is
kind of like, it doesn't really mean much.
It's the it's it's the. The connections you get out of
it are really. Absolutely.
The worth of it all, Yeah. Especially in an NBA.
No 100%. And I guess spoiler alert, what
what I've recently discovered about myself is I'm likely no

(08:04):
divergent of some sort and so autism likely undiagnosed.
So as you can probably imagine, any such social context is
really difficult for me to navigate, which which
contributes to this feeling of disconnection or or just being
always the outlier wanting to connect but not really knowing

(08:27):
how to. Yeah.
And you, you don't have a properdiagnosis on that, right.
So this is just you're just venturing to guess that maybe
you you might be on the spectrumsomewhere.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm just kind of noticing
the the symptoms myself and I'm also speaking with my ex
girlfriends now and that's a that's a kind of strong
suspicion. But at my age getting a

(08:49):
diagnosis doesn't seem to be productive.
I don't think it will change anything.
Even, Right. That's where I'm at with that,
Really. Yeah.
Yeah, Even if I am, I'm reasonably highly functioning.
So I, I don't want to kind of put myself in a box in a label.
I've, I've gone like this for like 42 years.
I can do 42 more. It's not a problem.

(09:13):
Yeah, I mean, I was, I was, theytalked to this student the other
day and we were talking about the ADHD and it's like that it
was kind of just label, label thrown on a lot of kids when I
was younger, not as much, but like more.
It's prevalent now and, and it'slike I never, I never had the,

(09:35):
the like the medication and the whole like prescription fucking
thing that came with that. I didn't like that wasn't my
story. And it seemed to be pretty under
control until I became like tillI became more of an adult.
And then they kind of came back in a weird way.
And it's less less to do with the fidgetiness and more to do

(09:56):
with the, the mind wandering andlike the inability to sit still.
And it, it really is to me was like a really, if I just put my
energy towards something, then Ican just kind of, you know, keep
it tamed. And, and to your point about
like being diagnosed as an adult, I always wonder what that
because, you know, sometimes I think we'll like, maybe there's

(10:19):
some other shit going on with me, right?
And there's a lot of dudes who kind of sympathize with that or
empathize with that and just kind of find themselves in a
situation where like, you know, maybe there's something else
going on here. And and then it's like, well, is
it worth getting looked at? And, you know, for me, it's like
I'm I'm I'm cautious to get intolike the world of prescriptions

(10:43):
and as the fix and I'm more likely to take a holistic path
to understanding how do I balance myself?
And so it doesn't make sense forme.
But maybe somebody whose life iskind of being absolutely, you
know, torn apart by something that might be a way different
story. Oh.
So yeah, 100. Percent I think you, you touched

(11:04):
on a very important point like we, we over medicate kids, we
over medicate ourselves. I, I don't want to judge.
That's not what I'm saying. I think if someone needs the
help like use all of the tools 100.
Percent, yeah, that are out there.
And like I, I actually talked with my, my, my, my another
ex-girlfriend in, in Poland whenI was there like a week ago or

(11:25):
something. She just feels such a huge kind
of, I don't know, darkness or oror depression during winter
months that the, the the pills just just help and like, why
shouldn't she take them? If, if, if it makes her more
functioning, more happy, whatever.
So yeah, more power to you if you needed to do it.

(11:49):
But I think we need to be careful, yeah.
No, 100%. I remember they I was on
something as a kid for maybe like a two weeks or something
and it just turned me into a robot and I did not like it.
It was I did not feel human. It was a terrible experience.
Yeah. And then coming off of that
stuff was even worse. And, you know, I was young.

(12:09):
I was, you know, like 10, which is wild.
So like you're mentioning ex girlfriends and you seem to have
the relationships with with yourexes.
I'm I I'm a person that doesn't for multiple reasons.
But do you, are you like, do youend these relationships in good

(12:33):
terms and, and everyone kind of just shakes hands and walks
away? Is it like amicable?
Amicable, you know? Well, So what you are.
Seeing is essentially survivorship bias.
So I slept. I slept so casual sex and and so
forth with I think 32 women. I I that either 30 or 50, I

(12:59):
don't quite remember at this point, it's not really relevant.
So I I keep in contact with two actively that I consider my
friends and maybe. I.
Once or twice every like 2 years, check in with one or two
sort of kind of. So I know someone someone around

(13:23):
the numbers on that so that the percentages aren't that kind of
crazy. Like I know one percent 10.
Percent, whatever. So 2.
Of them remained friends and andthen every now and then you just
kind of put some feelers out there to see if.
Yeah, but not not. Even like I, I have like one,
one person that I'm thinking about now that we had a good
connection, but we just kind of grew apart.

(13:45):
I I have fun feelings about her,but otherwise my life was filled
with like meaningless casual sexa lot of the time.
What do you? Think that was so like OK, so
you. So you.
You were living at home until 28and so like was this like
meaningless casual sex? Was that happening like at home

(14:06):
with your parents? Like I mean not with your
parents but like at your parentshome?
Or was this like after you left?Yes, pretty much.
So a lot of that, a lot of that happened when I was living in my
with my parents. Let me just kind of briefly

(14:26):
remember. And what was driving that?
What was like? Because it sounds like you
weren't. Exactly like looking for love.
You were looking for some not toput like words in your mouth,
but it seems like it. This was driven by searching for
something and trying to fill a God's eyes, God's eyes, your

(14:49):
heart with something else. Totally.
I'm I'm just trying to give you an answer that is not not that
because I guess it's for anyone that is listening.
I think it's pretty obvious thatI was trying to fill a hole.
I want to give you a bit more kind of sort out answer yeah.
And I. Don't want to just come off like
I'm just like, like straight outjudging you.
I mean, I think the I recognize it because that was something

(15:12):
that I, you know, I, I partake in like partook in myself,
right. When you're just kind of chasing
tail and, and, and you don't know why.
And actually it's no. No deeper I, I don't know why.
OK. I guess what I'm trying to say
is if if we pull on that string,we'll we'll sit here for for a

(15:32):
while. Let's do it, brother.
Let's. Pull on that.
String. What was going on?
Oh. Shit, man, buckle.
Buckle up. OK, yeah, I'm.
Strapped in bro. OK, so, so let's let's just go
back to the beginnings. I will just start with with my
relationship with my with my parents.

(15:54):
It's usually where it starts, Mum.
Yeah, yeah. Well.
Actually not well, mum, mum, yes, but not in a not in a
negative way. So, so don't please don't go
there. I, I, I love my mum dearly and
and she kind of moved heaven andearth for me.
So it's not like that. But OK, let me, let me just kind
of do my story and then we can talk.

(16:17):
OK. So my parents are still
together. So it's a, it's a, it's a
complete and a fairly stable home.
So it's not like I know there wasn't really abuse or, or or
violence or alcoholism or, or nothing of that sort.
Yeah. And your parents are still
together? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wow. That's like a It doesn't happen
anymore. No, not sure of.

(16:39):
That you're like the old ideal where everything's fine and the
parents are still together. That's awesome.
Congratulations. Thank you, thank you.
And like everyone has the issuesand and like there is there are
obviously ups and downs and thenthings to figure out, but they
they are still together. So OK, just to maybe cut things

(17:01):
short, my dad came from. He he wasn't military.
Himself, but his grandfather, his father was military.
So as you can imagine, very structured, kind of dominating,
not a lot of freedom, very regimented and he.

(17:22):
Kind of came. Back from came from that kind of
background. And also this is not the US.
This is this is communist, socialist Poland in the 60s,
sixties, seventies, 80s. So there is.
This whole situation is is overlaid with with freedom, with
Poland's fight for freedom, the fall of communism, censorships,

(17:47):
beatings, I know a secret policespying on you.
There's a lot of kind of stuff, Cold War.
Hysteria. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So my dad turns out based in kind of based on all of that, he
turns into a very kind of critical person, potentially

(18:08):
also autistic himself. So I can, I can never do good
enough well enough. So I'm always criticized.
I've always kind of, I know, notshouted at, but the only emotion
I see from him is is anger and frustration.
He can't really kind of communicate properly.
He can't. Oh.

(18:28):
Gotcha. Do you think that was autism?
My my. Mom suspects as as much or or
just like not not being able to communicate his needs, not being
able to emphasize to understand my needs as a kid as a child
child and stuff like that. So so that's one of the ones
that go ahead. Yeah.

(18:48):
I mean if that that. Whole generation had autism, all
those men that I mean that explains a lot.
Well, they. Didn't.
I'm making a. Joke, but I mean, because I it
seems to be like that was that was a common trait in men in
that that period, right? Like there was just like that
old school, like just kind of nut up and and they don't really

(19:09):
show emotion and they're not really there, but the the home
is stable and there's, you know,they're providing in a different
way. I I wouldn't.
I wouldn't go that far. I, I think if we talk about
specifically autism, I think we we are more familiar with it now
and we potentially over diagnoseit in in days past it.

(19:32):
It was more kind of. I know, as you say, not up be a
man stop crying type of situation.
I don't these are two different things.
OK, so so that's not. What you're saying, you're
saying that this was, this was different than that?
No, no. He, he, he.
Very. Well, might be autistic OK, but.
But that's one. Thing and on top of that, he's

(19:53):
been raised by a very dominatingfather who who kind of beat him
down and got you in proper love.So these these are two kind of
separate streams I understand. Now.
So OK. But let's let's put my dad to to
the side. Suffice to say critical.
I couldn't really express myselfproperly or or he didn't really

(20:13):
show me love on the one hand. On the other hand, you have my
mum who's very caring, dotting, spoiling me, always available
emotionally. That's very loving, very warm,
but almost to a fault, very protective, overprotective as I

(20:36):
said, like I love her daily and she enabled me to to kind of
pursue a lot of passions, education and and so forth.
So I'm very privileged in that way.
But that. What that leads?
To is is me. Now go on.
Oh, no, no. OK, just listening.
OK. Yeah, So what that that leads to

(20:57):
is when I entered the dating market, I have no clue what to
what to do with myself. I follow the the kind of
traditional adage of like, be yourself, be respectful, be a
nice guy. I don't know, just bring flowers

(21:18):
to the date, whatever. And it just doesn't stick.
It doesn't work. I get fucking ghosted.
I get I get rejected, I I get laughed at.
I don't know. Just like nothing works.
Part of the game, brother. We all we.
All deal with that, even even the even the quote like Don
Juan's man, like everyone deals with it.

(21:41):
Yeah, yeah. Fair enough.
But like, I know as as a kid, asa language, your dad, your dad
didn't. Kind of like sit you down and
kind of like show you the ropes.Nope.
Nope. So he did you ever did you ever
approach? Him OK, so.
You were embarrassed about. It.
And so. Our household was not like that.
We didn't. We didn't.

(22:03):
Talk about it. No, no.
Not. Not even that.
We just didn't talk about emotion.
It was very task driven. Do this, do that.
How was it at work? I've done this, I've done that.
Nothing about feelings. How do you feel?
Are you angry? Are you sad?
No one told me they love me whenI was a child.
So I don't really have the wiring.

(22:24):
What does? Love.
Feel like I have to explain it to myself on a kind of logical
level. So no, my dad, although he was
present physically, he withdrew from my life at age like 6, so
he was quite absent from my lifeand my mom pretty much raised me
all by by by herself. Interesting.

(22:46):
So would. You say, is it fair to say that
even though you had both your parents in your life and they
were together and there was no divorce, there was no abuse,
none of that, Would you say thatyou felt like you grew up
without a father? I wouldn't go that far.
I know people whose fathers committed suicide or died in a

(23:06):
car crash or or or something andthat sort of trauma is just
unimaginable. Gotcha.
Imagine. I don't know, finding your dad
hanging in the in the garage or something like.
That just fucks you up. Yeah, but I, I don't think that
one's parent has to be absent inthat regard to not be president,

(23:31):
but like. Yeah, no.
I guess I don't want to kind of complain that I, I think I'm,
I'm very privileged, you acknowledge.
The privilege of having a fatherin the home and a Staples home,
but if. There there was some.
Kind of withdrawal from your relationship like the the
relationship with between you and your father wasn't like the
ideal correct Yeah and. Like I can imagine.

(23:54):
That other children from family homes can can relate and that
also everyone has their own thing.
Like I know that in the US Army,brats are a are a kind of topic
or a thing where a lot of movingaround.
You can't put down roots, lots of travel.
So that's the problem in of itself.

(24:16):
But also an experience in like apositive can be seen as a
positive. OK, so you were having.
Trouble. Getting with the ladies.
Yes, let's. Get back on track on topic for
sure yeah. So I don't I, I, I can't form
relationships. I go into sex somehow I'm I'm
good at it. I don't know.

(24:37):
I've always had this mentality that I can be a good lover, a
giving lover and just kind of obviously a horny teenager.
How? Did you know you were good at it
though? Did like, did you have like a a
score sheet? Or.
Or like. Did you get feedback?
I I got. Feedback.
But like, it's, it's the weirdest thing sometimes you you

(24:57):
just know, yeah, that. You're just.
Like self assessing here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're
scoring. Yourself.
But also like I, I guess you have the, the like a self-image.
I, I'm, I'm a good musician, I'ma good painter.
I'm a good, I know Carpenter, whatever.
I'm just good at sex. Like a confidence.

(25:21):
Yeah, yeah. Confidence and just I don't
know, obviously holiness, testosterone, buzzing all of
that, but but that that confidence is is paired with the
inability to really pick up women, form relationships women
and obviously I want to be loved.
I want to love, I want to connect, I want to have a

(25:42):
girlfriend. Yeah, well, I guess it like.
OK, really quick. Let's just touch on it.
So we have some kind of definition based on this
conversation. It's like what it what does it
mean to be? What is love to you?
And then what does it mean to beloved as a man?
OK. Maybe you can tell me, I'm still
trying to figure this out. Just.

(26:08):
Generally speaking to me. I think.
Yeah. I mean, I, I have my definition.
I'm, I'm trying to understand yours in the context of this,
because I mean, you're claiming that we're stating that you,
you're, you know, looking for love and, and trying to be loved
and feeling loved and want to beloved.
And, and there's, it's coming upa couple times.

(26:29):
And and so I want to understand from your perspective, what is
it that you're chasing when you say you know the feelings of
love, right? Because there's a difference.
From. What?
What Dad? You know, dad didn't share love.
And then here's another situation where, you know, mom
loved you, but then now we're inthe dating world and, you know,

(26:49):
getting laid. And it's like I'm looking for
love even though, like, it wasn't always on the table.
So I'm trying to understand. OK.
Well, like, what was it that love that you were missing with
your father? What kind of?
Love Was that expressing itself into the world?
Like what does that look like versus, you know, maybe the love
that mom was giving you versus the one that you're chasing but

(27:10):
can't find? And you know what I mean?
I hear you. So it says 3 iterations of.
Love that I've heard so far. Yeah, yeah.
And then so like what is what are those?
And then what would it be to youideally?
What does that look like? OK, so.
I think firstly, great question.Secondly, my understanding of

(27:33):
love has evolved over time, obviously.
So I will really struggle to kind of go back in time and, and
tell you, oh, when I was 20 something that, that was my
definition of love. I would like to go back to my
initial answer that I I I reallystruggled for the longest time

(27:54):
to even understand what that means.
Part of. My the the reason for my breakup
with my with my ex is. That she was a.
Very loving person and a very kind of giving person that had
this passion for love and, and she loved me dearly.
And then potentially she, she still, she still do to to some

(28:16):
extent, but she was looking to for, for someone to reciprocate
and and love her as much as she.Loves me.
And me. I just.
Didn't have that wiring. Didn't have that programming I
like. I can't explain love to you on a
factual basis, but it I really struggle with actually feeling

(28:38):
it. So.
Let me let me kind of give you my explanation and I I think in
pictures actually so so I I willkind of give you keywords and
and ideas. Images so for me, love.
Is is family? Is, I don't know, a warm meal on
the table when you come back from work.

(28:59):
Is is is support? It's it's.
Children. It's the, it's the white picket
fence. It's the Labrador in the suburbs
is a is a camping ground in the summer tent.
It is hiking together in the I know the Appalachian Trail or or
the Rockies or or whatever. So.

(29:24):
Would you say, is it safe to saythat it's like a a shared sense
of community and belonging? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, it's, it's absolutely it'sbrotherhood, it's fatherhood.
It's it's, it's motherhood, it'sit's unity across generations.
It's. It's passing on your.
Your culture, your values. But this is the thing.

(29:49):
Like if you actually listen to me, I don't think it's it's love
love. I'm describing just family, I
guess, and maybe this what I'm trying to do is actually fill in
the whole of family that I didn't get from, from my parents
and then then father, right? But mostly your.
Father, right? Because we've established that

(30:11):
mom, mom was doing a good job. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so so the. The to answer your question like
yeah. I I still.
Struggle with kind of giving youan an answer.
No, that's fine. I mean.
It doesn't I think. I think that like, I think
mostly people don't take the time to understand the like the
definitions of the things that they're doing, wanting, knowing,

(30:33):
chasing, seeing, tasting, feeling, though it like the way
that we construct our world and the way that we operate and be
in our proximity and of our environment and with people.
And like all of this stuff, it's, I find that a lot of the
time it's just like borrowed knowledge and borrowed
behaviors. And it's never something you
like people actually choose. It's just something that was

(30:55):
taught to them. And, and so they inherit all of
these ways of being. And then then somebody asks them
like, what does the law mean to you?
And it's like, wow, I fucking, Ihave no idea.
And it's like, and to me, I wishsomebody would have asked me
those questions when I was younger, you know, because then
it's like, Oh shit, you know what?
I've never actually thought about it.

(31:16):
And to some people, you know, you say it's it's the family,
it's the camaraderie, it's the belonging, the shared
experiences, the ideals, the generational understanding of a
path forward and like this. And then you say.
Well, you know, I'm just describing family and it's like,
but to some people, that actually is the definition of

(31:37):
love, right? And and.
OK, so. It could mean whatever.
It means to you, and that's OK, right?
And you could not know and you maybe it's something that might
be superficial to somebody else,right?
Some people's ideal of love is not actually family, it's, you
know, money. And that's OK.
And some people are honest aboutthat and some people are not.

(31:58):
And then, you know, some people don't care about those things.
And then some people are still like, you know, maybe it once
was family and now it's, you know, you know, just
experiencing stuff, right, Having experiences or trying new
things and, you know, exploring.Yeah.

(32:19):
I, I I. Completely get you and I guess
that's part of my growing up process also, so I gave you an
answer. Like, let's say up.
To up to January this year, now I'm, as I said, I'm going
through a kind of very rapid process of, of rebuilding
myself, rethinking myself, a metamorphosis.

(32:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do, I do.
And I am unlocking a more kind of spiritual, connected side of
myself. Who?
Who? Understands.
Love as as essentially boundlessconnection and.
And trust. And vulnerability.
And joyfulness. Cheerfulness, belief, honesty,

(33:04):
faith, a life of service, surrender.
There we go. Now you're in my.
Realm brother like that's that'swhere I'm at because if you ask
me like it's it's super simple. It's because if you take.
If you get rid of. Like if you closed your eyes
right now and you got rid of, you got rid of, you know, all

(33:26):
the. Fuck all the pussy, all the
cars. All the family like, all of it.
If you got rid of all the riches, all of it.
And then? Right.
You're not chasing tail anymore,so you can't fill that hole
anymore with with that. You're not, you don't have a
family, so now you can't fill itwith that.
You don't have all the all the fancy stuff, so you can't fill
it with that. When, when, when you're just

(33:47):
alone in the dark, in the world,just you and the silence.
Like how do you experience love?Right.
And it's. Like to me that answer is, is
usually through service And, andit, it really is love to me is,

(34:08):
and I've said it before, it's just the closest I can be to God
and whatever that might be, right?
So long as I understand that I'mnot God, whatever that is
outside of that is like you can serve the wrong God, obviously,
but it's like something greater than myself that's worth
pursuing and in my service in, in, in motion to that and in in
proximity to that. So let.

(34:30):
Me. Let me ask.
You this because I think this isa super interesting topic that
we try. I grapple with also beautiful
answers by the way, amazing you say that you are not God.
How how do you how do you understand the concept of of the
Christian Catholic Trinity, the the Father, the Son, the Holy
Spirit? That's.

(34:51):
An interesting question that. That I.
Probably would not be able to answer like on the fly here.
This would be something that I have to just kind of sit with
for a minute and kind of. Really.
Like disentangle, I think it on some level it.

(35:16):
It's the different. Forms of being and in being in
the state of nature as a spirit in in kind of like the same way
that you know water can be ice gas and.
And solid. You know what?
I mean like, it could be. It could be.

(35:37):
Ice. It could be gas, it could be
liquid it like in in that form, right.
And then that form, we exist in all forms and that's, I think
that has a lot to do with it. And obviously we.
Get into like reincarnation and,and the in the states of being
and in all states of being it, it, it fundamentally comes down

(35:57):
to some, some form of being present.
And, and in each of those states, there is a fundamental
way of being present in those forms.
And when you're in alignment andwith all forms, then you are,
then you are in total presence. And when you're in total
presence, then you can see truth.

(36:18):
And when you're operating in truth, then then everything kind
of just aligns in a moment to unfold to the next one.
And so I don't think that we ever become like, and, and what
I mean by that is like we're constantly emerging as people
and we're never, we're never, there's not a finish line.

(36:38):
There is just like this. One domino.
Leading to the next. And that line of dominoes never
ends. It's a never ending like fall of
dominoes. And so you know, I'm like, if
I'm being present right now, then that moment's already
passed. Now we're now it's a new moment
of presence. Now it's a new moment of

(36:59):
presence. That is a new moment.
I am not ever the same person and that's.
Those states of. Being kind of all just fold onto
each other to to present that. And so that's kind of somewhere
in the realm of like where I would say that that the
importance of that lies. I think that's as.
Close to a perfect answer as as you might arrive at like you can

(37:20):
sit with it for sure for howeverlong you want, But that's that's
pretty on point. So my understanding is pretty
much exactly what what you just described for me, the the
Trinity means that we are I was I was baptized.

(37:41):
I now consider I I I consider myself more kind of Buddhist or
or searching currently, but I'm also I'm I'm I'm finding that
the Bible has a lot of very meaningful meaning, like not

(38:04):
literal. I don't necessarily agree with
everything that said their verbatim, but I think there is a
lot of like very powerful messages that that that we
should kind of live our lives by.
Yeah, definitely the parables inthere, they do.
They do hold a lot of wisdom that that is accessible.
It's accessible. Wisdom is what it is, exactly.

(38:25):
So just just maybe to close the the Trinity angle, I believe we
are divine and this is what the Trinity means to me.
Is, is that you as as well as meand as well as anyone else hold
the spark of the divine within them, the Holy Spirit, which is
God, which is the Son. And when we talk about love and

(38:50):
and then boundless connection, omnipotence, omnipresence, just
being beyond time, beyond, I don't know, beyond.
I think that's it. Yeah.
I mean. I I know that I just went on a
tangent. I, I agree mostly with with and
not wholeheartedly, but not 100%, but mostly with what you

(39:12):
just said. I'm kind of in that realm as
well. And I, I could be wrong about my
own assessment, right? And it's like, the thing with
that is like. You could, literally.
Say anything and I would be like, yeah, you're right,
because it has no bearing on me,right?
As a, as a human being. And I on most good days, I think

(39:33):
we're literally in a simulation and it's mostly like I'm in a
simulation and you're a version of me that exists and I'm just
trying to understand you by speaking with you.
And it's just like this constantlike fractal, like reflection of
states of being. And so like a person is kind of
just always being at the same time.

(39:53):
And the only reason it's a, it'sexistence, like it's because of
observation, right? And so like, you're only there
because. I'm observing.
You in some way, shape or form. And so your form comes to
physicality. And then now we're having a
conversation so that I can understand myself, which is the
whole reason the podcast started.
No, no. Totally.
Where, where are you getting this these kind of keywords and

(40:17):
and and metaphors reflection. OK, OK.
Yeah. Let's just meditate on a silly
question a lot. And I just, I just kind of go
for and think about things and kind of step, step aside for
myself so that I can understand what it is I'm engaging and in

(40:37):
how I'm engaging the environmentand world around me and what
those things actually mean. Everything is just words,
brother, Like, right. Like we'll take something simple
like. A lot of like the.
Arguments that people will have about like gender, race
equality, and like all of this stuff.
A lot of it seems so silly because it's.

(40:59):
It not. Because the the the underlying
mechanism for what brought thosequestions into play are silly.
Because they're valid. It's.
It's it's meaningless. Yeah.
Because it's so much like asked backwards, like hypocrisy within
it. Because no one understands what
culture, ethnicity and race are on their own.

(41:19):
No one understands what ancestral background and
heritage mean. And they don't.
They all think that all of thesethings are on the same level.
It's the same category, right? So when somebody's talking about
race, somebody else is actually talking about culture.
When someone's talking about ethnicity, they think they're
talking about race. It's not the same thing, right?
Nationality is different than race than culture than right, as

(41:40):
an example, right, because that's a prominent topic.
And so we argue past each other,right?
And and we do that with ourselves is so.
When you're in. Meditation.
It gives you a moment to kind oflike, sit.
With a question. Sit with an answer.
Sit with an in a space where youcan actually deconstruct the

(42:02):
nonsense and kind of understand like, oh, this is what it
actually means, right? Like, think about any word that
you've ever learned, right? And it's like, have you ever
taken the time to go look up a word that you may or may not
understand? And then like you go look at the
definition. It's like that's not what that
means at all. Interesting.
You know, so the, the, I, I think what you're saying makes

(42:26):
complete sense and, and I wholeheartedly, wholeheartedly
agree. The why I picked up on the
concept of reflections is that Ithink in Buddhism there is this
concept that we are reflections of a, of a higher consciousness,
like network of, of perils or something.

(42:46):
So it's it's super interesting that you use those words.
I mean like I do, I just starteddabbling into to the Buddhism,
but I haven't gone that far to and I don't even know where to
start to be honest, brother. Like I have a book on on
Buddhist teachings from the 1960s actually that it's been
sitting in my bookshelf that I found at a thrift shop and it's

(43:10):
from 1967. Dude, I don't even know 1966 and
it's like I'm just kind of reading it and I don't, I
haven't gotten that far. You know, I'm on like page 10.
And so I don't know anything about that realm of spiritual

(43:31):
being. I just know that if you meditate
long enough and you ask a question, like an answer kind of
shows up. And.
The only thing that has made sense to me not to like, hijack
this whole conversation because it's it's.
Supposed to be about. You.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that if.

(43:51):
If I'm not God? Then something else out there is
and, and if there's only God andthat's or one thing in the
universe that exists, then that thing is going to try to
understand itself. And the only way it can do that
is through me and through you. And if we are all one, then we
are all God, and God is just. The only reason any of us exist

(44:14):
is so that God can exist, right?Because the only way that God
exists is that if, if God is being observed and it God cannot
be observed if if there's no oneto observe it, right?
So when you go into even like Christianity, right where like
these weird angels and cherubims, like they all have
like multiple eyes and like whatis that for?

(44:35):
What do eyes do? They observe.
Right, so. God creates.
These creatures so that he can. See himself or itself or
whatever it might be. And that might just be an
experience, that might just be amoment, that might just be a
thought. I don't know.
I don't know what that is. That's super.
Interesting. Yeah.
I, I, I'm, I'm speechless. I think you you just are saying

(44:59):
quite profound things. Yeah, and it's.
Like there's no way to prove it right?
Yeah, if I get. Hit by a meteor, right?
Now and a meteorite right now. And like, I'm wrong then I'm
wrong, right? But at least I thought about it.
And I think, I think the the path to discovery or the path to

(45:20):
trying to understand it can be destructive.
And you see that like in the movie The fountain, right, where
he's trying to search for Nirvana and this answer so hard
that he becomes and consumed by like the the vegetation and, and
life and everything. And it's like, but that's also
the point. You're supposed to chase
something that you want and loveso bad with truth that it kills

(45:42):
you. 100%, I think that's, I think that's what we are missing
as. Because.
As a society. There has been so much push back
against religion and there's a lot of religious extremism in
the world, like evangelizing andand using religion as a stick to
beat people with. And and we've turned.

(46:05):
It out turned away from religion, which I think is a
mistake generally. Yeah, what you, what you are
saying is, is absolutely correct.
I think if you approach life with with truth, with with
honesty, with love, with kindness, with mindfulness, when
your intent is pure like, thingswill happen and you will live a

(46:26):
full and happy life. If your if your life.
Is, I know, tainted by anger, hate, racism, whatever else.
Then like you, you are spreadinghate and you are spreading this
kind of like nasty energy and and your life will never, never
be fully complete. 100%. Brother and I really think that

(46:49):
like it is gets really, really complicated for no reason,
right, like you have people are like I'm so unhappy and like I
don't know how to be. It's like be happy dude, just be
smile. Stop being.
Miserable. And it's like, well, I feel this
way. And it's like, but you aren't
the feeling. The feeling is the response to a
stimulus that you're feeding it.Yeah, you know if.

(47:10):
I eat a diet. Of, of like McDonald's every
day. And I feel unhealthy.
It's because my diet and to refuse to see that it's my
actions. It's, it's kind of, you know,
it's kind of nonsense. Yeah, no, I get.
What you're saying it's easy? I'm not saying it's easy.
Totally. And and like I I I guess I what
I want to highlight is that. I understand what you're.

(47:34):
Saying and I agree, but like it's like saying to someone like
don't be gay or I don't know, just be yourself like, but I'm
not, I'm not saying. That being gay is wrong or no,
No, no, no, no. That's, I guess if if someone
feels such deep unhappiness thatthey are considering suicide,
let's say, and you tell them, oh, just be happy.

(47:57):
It's not really productive because that advice is just so
removed from from their, their, their context.
That is, is just unhelpful, right?
But we're not. Yeah, no, I mean, that's in to
to place it into context. I'm not talking about somebody
being, you know, you know, dealing with mental health

(48:19):
issues, right. We're talking about, I'm talking
about people who are in the normative of things.
But it's it's it's. A It's a spectrum like you can,
you can be feeling burnout, You can be feeling, I know, sadness,
depression, dealing with a breakup, whatever.
And like you, you come to them and say, hey, just be happy,

(48:39):
like chin up, be a man or whatever.
It it, it's really not productive and I don't, I don't
mean it in a kind of negative way towards you.
I think I think your happens in a in a right place, but
sometimes these. Comments We.
Make and and we we we mean them in a in a good way.
Hey, everything's been going to be OK.
You smile. Whatever.

(49:00):
Sometimes that the message just doesn't land because it just
it's not the right time. You and I seem to be kind of
connected, maybe a bit more elevated.
I'm not. I don't.
That's fair. Yeah, that's.
Fair. I don't want to be.
Kind of arrogant about it, but but you've thought about it.
I've thought about it. And then we came to a conclusion
that it's easier than than maybepeople think.

(49:22):
But a lot of people are just kind of stuck in the in the
yeah. No, I mean, I, I get where
you're coming from and it's a, it's a valid, it's a valid
argument 100%. It's just at some point like how
we feel, what we think and all of those things despite even if
we want to go into the realm of mental illness and all of this,
it's like we're, we're suggesting that like a person is

(49:44):
being irrational. And and then I kind of go back
to, well, well, that depends on whether that person is being
rational or irrational in a rational or irrational state of
environment, right. So if if I'm being an asshole in
a room full of assholes, I'm notbeing irrational, I'm being a
rational asshole if I'm being anasshole in an in.

(50:04):
A room full of like. Nuns that I am being an
irrational asshole right and so if I'm.
Mentally. Ill in a in a psych ward.
I'm not out of place, I'm where I should be in.
Perspective in. In proximity to a, what is quote
a functional normal society, right.
But if the whole world is a bunch of nuts, then who's

(50:25):
actually a nut? Nobody.
And so it's like, my point was, if I somebody who used to deal
with alcoholism, it's like if I wanted to not get drunk, then I
just don't drink. And it's like, well, that's it's
not that easy. No, it actually is that easy.
And that was my point. It's like if I want to stop
being miserable, then I just stop being miserable.

(50:46):
And so that is not to state. That one should not.
Explore what are the what are the things that had contributed
to that state of being? And is it something that is
constantly being like like a like a toxin?
Is it is there like some kind ofa environmental stimulus toxic
and like like some kind of succubus of like energy or

(51:09):
anything like and not to be likeit Woo woo about the energy
part. I mean, just like my state of
being. Is it like, am I contributing to
that? Is it something outside of
myself? Right?
Because if I if I'm just like having a bad day, then I'm just
having a bad day because of my expectations on what that day
should look like. Or something that happened.
That didn't meet my expectation.But if I'm dealing with
depression, severe depression like that comes from somewhere,

(51:33):
I'm not saying that that shouldn't be explored.
I'm saying that like, stop beingdepressed.
And if that means that. I have to go look and do the
hard work so I can stop being depressed.
Then I have to go do that. And if I that means that I need
help, then I have to go do that,right?
Yeah, no. I agree with you, I think.
Yeah, we. We mean the same.

(51:54):
Thing maybe we express it slightly differently.
Yeah, I mean I, I. Definitely just reduced it to
like a yeah. Just flip a.
Switch and make it happen. But and it definitely.
It's it's a process. It's, it's, it's 100% a journey.
Like you, you don't go to Tibet to meditate if it would be like
easy, right? Exactly, exactly.

(52:17):
OK. So we're just like so far off
the trail around that. I I'm, I'm.
Surprised. Like I knew.
So you were chasing tail? And you were searching.
For love. I will search.
OK, yeah, so I guess maybe just in summary, I was, I was

(52:39):
definitely feeling trying to fill a hole.
I couldn't find the real connection.
Firstly, I didn't know what realconnection feels like.
So I was searching for it without an improvement for it.
So obviously, kind of in hindsight, no shit I couldn't
find it. And yeah, and.
Then what else I guess. Where do you want to?

(53:05):
Take this we can, we can go downthe professional route or we can
go down the the seduction route.So I, I will just for the
benefit of your audience, my my search led me to the to the pick
up artist community just is that.
As an adult or like when you were younger?
No. Well, that.
Was. 20 something like I guess between 23 years of age.

(53:33):
So you're still living at? Home.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that was that was the
the, the period of my kind of sexual promiscuity, trying to
find that connection, living a life of frustration as like I'm
this good boy. I do all the things that my mom
told me. And nothing is.
Working, but I've always had hersupport to to kind of.

(53:56):
Look. Search for myself study she she
kind of enabled a lot of the kind of funding needed for for
these type of trainings. So I was able to complete a
couple of courses, paid for courses in Poland with
neurolinguistic programming likemanipulation, negotiation, sales

(54:19):
task force that. Is pickup artist specifically?
It was. It was professional development.
Just generally speaking, it was.It was I guess a bundle.
Is the the? The the best way.
To put it there was a group of for like 2 guys that were
conducting these these trainings.

(54:40):
They were doing a couple of professional focused trainings,
but they also tacked on the seduction, the pickup artistry
on top of it. Because did your mom know that?
She was paying for the pickup artist classes or did she?
Did she think it was more professional development it?
Was both. I think it started as

(55:01):
professional. Development.
And then it morphed into pickup artistry.
Interesting. But.
But yes, she she did knew. She didn't know.
There was actually a scene whereI had I I was wearing a bright
Ferrari red T-shirt at home withthe words SEDUCTION trainer on

(55:23):
the back. Fascinating.
At home. So yeah, yeah, they, they, they,
they knew. But she was quite supportive.
She he's he's, he's finding, he's trying to find himself.
Yeah. Dad was.
Like questioning who who would do that?
Why, why? Why would you do that?
So yeah, that's that's that's the story.
All right, so then so. Then what really drove you?

(55:47):
Like OK. So.
You left at home at 20. 8 What was?
What was the? What was the?
The catalyst for that specifically, like what was the
the impactful catalyst that was like, OK, it's time to time to
leave the nest. What's going on there?
So I I touched on this. Previously just same people,

(56:08):
same situations, same clubs, same conversations, right?
Alcohol. Obviously to like to access, so
a lot of money spent. Kind of.
Drugs also coming home, I don't know, at like 6:00, seven, 8:00
in the morning on a Saturday night or a Saturday morning.

(56:33):
So just like, I don't know, Yeah.
So you're just going? For it, you're going to the
wall. Yeah, yeah.
And it's just like I, I know I, I firstly, I got, I got tired.
I, I felt the emptiness of it all.
And it was just time, all right?So you needed.
A change. You were you.
You've had enough. Yeah, yeah.

(56:54):
I think, I think you. Asked.
You opened this interview with this question of, of coming,
coming of age. Yeah.
And for me it just. Happened.
It was just kind of like fuck it, this is it.
My life can't can't be looking like this anymore.
Now were you scared? When you left home at that age,
or did you feel like maybe therewas something calling you so

(57:16):
much like? The sense of.
Adventures Collins and it like it just was.
It was bright. I'd like to say.
That it was so kind of beautifuland romantic, but what it wasn't
so because of all of the promiscuity, the, the, the
alcohol, the parties, the expensive vacations, travels, I
was in depth. So I, I had that kind of credit

(57:39):
line that I had to pay, pay off at that time.
I so you're you're going. You're digging a a debt hole
during all of this, Yeah. Not not, not nothing like crazy.
Like I wasn't like it was under control but gotcha.
At at the. Time before the financial

(57:59):
crisis, it was 2008, money was cheap and and they were giving
out credit to to really everyone.
So I kind of like that, yeah. So just just to kind of give you
in perspective with, I don't know, being a being a clerk in
an office, I could get a credit card for like 5K USD at the

(58:19):
time. And that I would need to party
girls, drugs and and some vacations.
But I had to, obviously on a monthly basis, I had to kind of
pay back by the way, a set amount, right?
You you didn't leave home and then move in with a girl
immediately, did you? No, no.
So. I so how how it worked.

(58:41):
I lost a job in in Poland and I got a job.
I I I was unemployed for a while.
I was interviewing and then got a job in in Oracle they paid
for. A relocation?
So. So that was, I guess easy in a
sense that I just picked up a suitcase and went to Prague,

(59:04):
stayed in a hotel for a month, which was paid by Oracle, and
then they started paying my my salary.
I just rented and and on it went.
Gotcha. So it was.
It was the IT was the job that took you away from home.
Well, yeah. Yeah, well.
Yeah, I guess so. It was, it was just like a

(59:27):
situation that happened, right? Out.
Of my own making, the the excessive partying, drinking,
the credit. So did so did that help you kind
of just refocus your energy on like maybe buckling down,
getting, getting down to business and just working?
Did the partying stop? Did it get worse?
No, no. So the.
The partying stopped absolutely because I was kind of taken out

(59:51):
of of that environment. I I was left alone in Prague.
I had to form new relationships.Being introverted and and
autistic, that didn't come easy.So I didn't really kind of go
out party. It was more more about kind of
gaming League of Legends, crypto, stuff like that.

(01:00:14):
And then, but it it wasn't somehow this was not the the
kick I needed. Like I still was underperforming
at work. Well, performing
underperforming. It's not.
I stopped the. Partying and then, like settled
down. But I was, I was thrust into a
very lonely world because, like,living in a city, you don't know
anyone. You can't Relationships.

(01:00:36):
Yeah, yeah. Can you speak to like, sorry,
I'm a firm believer that the, your environment has a massive
contributing role in, in kind ofjust habits and perceptions,
perspectives. Like it, you kind of become like

(01:00:57):
your environment is part of likethe, the whole conglomerate of
the tribe thing. And and so when you left, did
you feel like a massive shift inmaybe your thinking, your
perspective and all of that? Obviously leaving helped your,
your, your quote bad habits, right.
And so like, did you see any outside of like, you know,

(01:01:20):
finding yourself to feel lonely?Any benefits from that, like
just that move of just leaving and just like a false like
separation from that terrible environment?
Yes, it's a very. Interesting question.
So let's maybe spend some time on this.
Absolutely. So once you leave your comfort

(01:01:41):
zone, and that actually comes back to your question of of the
coming of age ritual, like boys are thrust into the jungle and
they have to kind of survive there for like a day or two or
three, whatever, without the help of the tribe.
So metaphorically speaking, that's exactly what happened.

(01:02:02):
I was I was alone in a city, hadto figure shit out on my own,
didn't speak Czech, had to go tothe Czech Bureau.
Of. Doing Czech things and I know
register for, I don't know, a flat or or something like just
crazy stuff like very typically very difficult to do.

(01:02:25):
Even with. People there it is just you just
kind of navigate this, this alien landscape almost, but it's
it's exhilarating. You are.
You are just out there on your own doing shit, building
something. And yeah, it's.
It's quite exciting, I can't lie.
It's it's amazing. Gotcha.

(01:02:48):
Yeah, yeah, it just it's like itseems like it it's always like
some some form of like the hero's journey and like that's
just kind of like this wheel andrat race where in or you know,
that that called adventure and then the design of the Avenger
and and all of that. It feels very much.

(01:03:08):
Like that's kind of what it is. And the minute that you're like,
this is really uncomfortable, I'm going to do it anyways.
Whatever that I'm going to do itanyways, right the IT.
Seems to have. A a significant impact on
people's lives. I know it for myself.
It did. I've, you know, and that's
usually where that saying of courage is simply fears that

(01:03:28):
have said their prayers comes in, right.
Well, we're not absent of fear, but we're just kind of leaning
into it and you kind of being courageous in in, in doing so.
And sometimes being courageous is just like taking a job
somewhere else, right? And maybe that might not be
like. You know the image of.
Like Hercules or something, right?

(01:03:49):
But or resonate with that, but it's like it kind of is on some
level, right? Because you're, you're taking an
adventure and leaving everythingbehind just so you can explore
something, you know, that might be and you might be wrong,
right. And so my question is, was, was
it wrong to kind of take that adventure on?
Is is that a question to me? Yeah.

(01:04:12):
Yeah. How did that play out?
No. Well.
OK, so maybe let me let me park that answer for a moment.
I think you're absolutely right.I think we.
Like are. Are are are heaped in this kind
of Hollywood pop culture culturewhere where you, you see

(01:04:34):
superheroes on the screen that the hero's journey.
Absolutely, I agree with you. Is, is, is is a tremendous story
and very inspiring. But people kind of, I don't
know. I don't know if it's
intentional. I don't.
I don't want to go down this kind of conspiracy theory.
Angle. But like, I think there is a

(01:04:54):
disconnect between I know Superman or I know Captain
America or whoever and Joe Schmowho's I know a garbage truck
driver or something. Coming back, coming back to the
stories and and context of stories and how men and just how
we how we kind of connect things.
I don't think that quite resonates.
And I like when you see a superhero on the screen, like I

(01:05:16):
don't think the messages. I don't think a lot of people.
Understand it as you can be whatever you want and you can
kind of conquer all. I think that the.
Most people react. I I will never.
Be like that. This is just so far removed from
my from my kind of context that like I just give up.
I don't know, but I agree with you.

(01:05:38):
I think, I think we, we are, we,we are all heroes and we are all
everyday heroes and we are all have everyday challenges to
overcome in our own way and. We have our own.
Victories, and we should be proud of that.
Right. I'm.
Definitely talking more in the realm of going outside of our

(01:05:59):
comfort zones and exploring whatthere else might be out there
for us. And it's not, it's not actually
very romantic or inspiring when we do so.
But right. And so like the yeah,
definitely. The the.
Superhero with the Cape thing like I that that does not
resonate at all for sure, right?That's different.

(01:06:21):
But like the story of maybe David and Goliath might resonate
with somebody where you're, you're kind of overcoming
something that seems so like such a insurmountable act or
feat and you kind of, you know, and sometimes that's a getting
up in the morning despite your depression, right?
And that's, that's the Goliath you're you're contending with,

(01:06:43):
right. So that's kind of more what I'm
talking about. Yeah.
Let me let me just give you a story.
Let me I. Need some time to.
To pull something. Up.

(01:07:05):
So you might well. Might have to cut this out.
Oh yeah, no, we're not cutting. Anything out, brother?
OK, so. So.
Recently recently I had. A bit of a kind of spiritual
awakening awakening. I had it.

(01:07:27):
I had it previously but but likea month or two ago I had another
one triggered by. By.
The the stress in my in my, so to speak, family with my
girlfriend and the stress that'sat work.
And a person. A friend, a close colleague of
mine, just told me a Chinese legend which I I think awakened

(01:07:50):
something in me. The.
And it kind of happened. In the context of the of the
Chinese New Year actually, whichactually just ended I think last
week, yeah. We're we're.
We're well into the you're the the snake, right?
You're of a snake. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So essentially. What?

(01:08:12):
What's been? What's been said, what's been
told is the the the dragon gate legend, essentially.
So I'm just going to read to youwhat what my.
What my? Friend told me.
OK, Yeah. I don't know this.
You should, you should definitely read up on it.

(01:08:34):
And I, I invite your audience todo the same.
So this is the Chinese Dragon Gate legend.
The Chinese symbology symbology is.
It's the story of 1000 of koi fish swimming upstream together
against the strong current, thousands swimming and only one
succeed. They eventually reached a huge

(01:08:57):
waterfall where most koi turned around and gave up.
However, few persevered for hundreds of years and eventually
managed to jump up the waterfallwhere the goats awarded them by
turning them into the most auspicious creature in Chinese
legend. A dragon koi, Yeah.

(01:09:21):
What? What?
What does that tell you? That tells me.
That, I mean, I, I've talked about this before with people
about especially in, in the context of education, that
there's this reality that we don't want to face and, and it,

(01:09:42):
it's like that not everybody is going to make it.
Yeah, and. So in this in the sense that
like. You have to.
Believe that you are that one fish and that you will make it.
And if you're going to give up then you've already lost.

(01:10:03):
And maybe you don't make it, butit it like.
In in the. Fucking wise words of Wayne
Gretzky. You.
You lose. You miss 100.
Percent of the shots you don't take, right and so if like, if
you, you, I don't know what likehow to explain it, right, like

(01:10:26):
the, the sense of adventure and the thing that I was talking
about earlier is, is getting up despite the fact that you don't
want to get up. It's, you know, it's that kind
of thing. It's I was not the smartest kid
in school, right. And because of that, I was and I
was told a lot that I was I was stupid and, and, and whatever

(01:10:47):
and, or I was bullied a lot and all of this stuff.
And it's like, well, Despite that and a lot of men actually
told me that I was never going to be man enough, right or that
I didn't belong and this kind ofthing, despite the fact that I
was always asked to be a part ofwhen it was convenient, right.
And So what I was, I was, I was a tool for somebody else most of
my life. And.
And it's like you. Have to believe that you're the

(01:11:10):
capacity of who you are is greater than what you think it
is in that that one one cages themselves by the boundaries of
perception and that the boundaries of perception become
your present cell and that's where you exist.
And the minute that you realize that everything around you is

(01:11:33):
really based on those imaginary boundaries that you've placed on
yourself, then you have freed yourself to understand that
maybe you are that koi fish. And then when you realize that
you are that koi fish you that makes it into the koi dragon,
then you realize that you are all of the koi fish.
And then by. By accepting that you are all of

(01:11:55):
them, then you are accepting that you are that one.
When you accept that you are that one, then it is possible
for you to emerge as that koi fish.
And, and so it's, you're like, it's like you just have to keep
trying, dude. Like, and, and not everyone's
going to make it. And if you don't make it, that's
OK because you were a part of something greater than yourself.

(01:12:16):
But you have to be part of that to even be in the race.
So agreed. I I think.
I mean, there's more to that, but yeah.
No, no. No, I, I.
Think what, what, what I'm getting at and what the, the,
the, I guess the translation that my friend gave me, it's,
it's all about strength. It's all about perseverance.

(01:12:37):
And I what? I read from it is is
collectivism. So you you gave a very you.
You gave a very Western take. I guess, like individualistic.
What I get from it is we, we arestronger together.
We need to be connected. We need to support each other
like, we need to love each other.

(01:12:58):
And like, as long as you persevere and you believe in
yourself and you believe in, in,in others around you.
You will you. Will you can.
Get through the the the weirdest, most heinous kind of
tough situations just like you can the the the human spirit can
just kind of overcome all. Yeah, there's something.

(01:13:21):
To be spoken about with the likethe human will to thrive and to
live and to persevere. And the Western perspective that
you're talking about is because when I talk about that, it's
usually in the perspective of the framing of the, the salmon
upstream, right? So, and like the idea that like
not every salmon is going to make it upstream and some of

(01:13:43):
those salmon actually get fucking annihilated by bears.
And it's like, well, it's also kind of a kind of a gift that
you get annihilated by a bear because you're, you're kind of
feeding something more. And that's, that's the whole
point to me. Is that into your point about it
being a collective movement on some level, right.
When you get into the spiritual aspects of this, it's like, it

(01:14:04):
doesn't matter if you're the onethat makes it upstream because
you're going to die anyways. At some point, you're not going
to live forever. It doesn't matter if you get
killed by the bear, because you're going to die anywhere
anyways. Yeah, and and.
Whether you're the one that. Got to make it and mate and have
this crazy thing or whatever as that salmon or you're the one
that got annihilated by a bear or you're the one that died on a

(01:14:25):
rock that didn't ever make it upstream.
Like it doesn't matter because like there's no you don't make
it out alive anyways kind of thing.
And so. It only matters what it matters
to you, and that meaning is something that you create.
Yeah, so. Actually, I, I wanted to kind of
build on this because like absolutely right.

(01:14:46):
You if, if a, if a, if a bear eats 1 salmon, that means that
the other, another salmon or 10 other salmon survives.
So we are coming back to the right service, sacrifice, right.
And also like I, I forget which one is it, but one of the one of

(01:15:07):
the American founding texts, maybe the Constitution.
Like we, we the people in the pursuit of happiness.
I I forget which. One is that.
That's that's the Constitution. OK.
So life, liberty, and. Pursuit of happiness, is that
what you're talking about? Yeah.
So. You guys were the first ones.

(01:15:30):
I think Poland was either the second or the third one that had
a very similar constitution. And I think this is.
Exactly it like. About.
Pursuit of happiness the the thethe indomitable human spirit.
And just. Pursuit of happiness, pursuit of

(01:15:51):
of success and America is great.This is the, this is the land of
opportunity. No, no question about it.
I think I think you guys are amazing.
Best country in the world? Brother.
Well, I mean, we can. We can.
Agree to disagree, but I'm goingto.
I'm going to no, no. I will die on that.
Hill No, no and. And and I do appreciate it and I

(01:16:14):
will, I would die for my for my country too, I think as as
everything ebbs and flows, I guess is what I'm trying to say,
right? And and.
On the. On the on the global.
Stage like, let's say US, China are pitted against each other
and here you have this beautifulstory of, of collectivism,

(01:16:35):
perseverance, strength, pride, and there's a lot of
similarities, I guess if you if you just kind of perhaps scratch
below the surface. And and it speaks.
To me about connection and like there's more that connects us as
humans, these kind of joint stories that the hero's journey,

(01:16:57):
there's more that connects us then divides us.
And I think often we we kind of forget about us.
Yeah, no, I definitely agree. And I mean do the.
To the life liberty. And pursuit of happiness, I
mean, it, it is something to be said also that it is, it is
written in the sense that they're inalienable rights,

(01:17:20):
right? That they're granted, they're
granted by a God or a, a, a creator or something higher than
ourselves. And that no one can take that
away from us because they're just given.
Yeah. And that that is something that
permeates in any boundaries, anyborders, any, any ideological
ideals or structures or anythinglike that, right.

(01:17:41):
And. So your.
Your buddy shared this story with you and what was the impact
of that on your journey? Well, yeah.
That's another. Big one, it's just, it's just

(01:18:01):
awakened something in me like. And what do you think that was
so? Not not sure if you are familiar
but I I think my heart chakra opened.
I think I've also suffered or suffered or experienced the
kundalini awakening. Which are.
Kind of very profound spiritual experiences in the, in the kind

(01:18:24):
of Eastern cultures, yeah. The energy that travels with the
spine. The serpent of life.
Exactly. Exactly.
So just a feeling of boundless love, boundless connection,
just. Like this would.
Be super fucking loopy, but doesgodhood just clarity purpose,

(01:18:46):
love strains just like I've I'venever felt like this before.
It's just an amazing feeling andI'm I'm kind of super excited to
kind of share it with you and. That that.
Story. You said it, that opened up.

(01:19:07):
Your. Perspective through the heart
chakra to to see the world in a different light.
And how does that how has that did your behaviors or your
shaped reshaped your environmentor your your engagement with
your environment or people, places, things, that kind of
thing? How's that?
Has that changed at all because of that?

(01:19:28):
Jesus Christ, man, you. Are not holding back OK.
I think you touched. On it in one of your earlier
answers or or or questions. I, I I.
Will kind of butcher this quote,but.
Like. If you are crazy in a in a Luna

(01:19:50):
bin, you are you are not out of place, but if you are crazy out
in the real world, like you are out of place.
So that's a very high level summary of of what's what's
happening. One day you are this kind of
scared introverted autistic kid that just struggles with.

(01:20:13):
A lot. Of the aspects of everyday life,
just angry, frustrated, just notnecessarily hateful, but just
like, I don't know, not not necessarily a good, I wasn't a
bad person, but I wasn't living a happy life.
Let's let's put it this way, OK?And then?

(01:20:34):
And then as Switch flips and youare just working on air and you
are just like full of energy, full of life, full of love, full
of laughter, full of joy, full of creativity, loads of business
ideas, loads of just kind of want to do stuff, travel, talk
to people, help people, live a life of service.

(01:20:58):
So you're inspired? Enlightened.
Or just touched by by, I don't know, someone, something, an
energy, whatever. And.
And this whole thing flips and now you are sending emails to
your boss or just sending weird texts to your girlfriend or, or

(01:21:20):
just something and and just people look at you like.
OK, what's? Happening.
This is freaking me out. And then, yeah, it's, it's
really difficult to kind of navigate that, let's say.
Yeah, because what you're describing is like you're,

(01:21:45):
you're operating. This is what I'm saying.
About what I was talking about earlier by constantly reemerging
in the world, I don't think we're done reemerging into this
world, right? That we're constantly shifting
and nothing is really static. And so in even with ourselves.
And so even ideas or opinions orways of being in our environment
and engagements, it does shift. And so it's like, if you're

(01:22:08):
showing up in the world a certain, like a certain way, and
your environment has been used to kind of like experiencing
that version of you and you showup a different way, of course,
that's going to be like, you know, what, what, what just
happened here, right? Like it's like getting a new
haircut. People notice, right?
And, and The thing is like, whenit's, it's not our haircut and

(01:22:31):
it's our personalities and the way that we engage, right?
That changes, right? So like if if I'm holding the
door for somebody every day and then one day I stop doing that,
it can be perceived as rude. Right.
Just whether I'm. Being rude or not and and so by
virtue of doing something that was perceived as nice, by not

(01:22:53):
doing that, something has changed.
And then you make the environment question what has
changed? Is it?
It's very clear that this. Person has changed so therefore
it couldn't possibly be my perception of what this is and
and it's actually both and then none at the same time right.
OK. So then my question to you is,
like before you had this enlightened experience where you

(01:23:15):
radically shifted your engagement with the environment,
like did something like happen, something serious happen?
Was. It was.
It the the breakup or did that come after?
Sure, sure, sure. So, OK, so this is there has
been two parts to to this awakening process.

(01:23:37):
OK, 11 happened in Ireland around like 10 years ago, so
under under tremendous emotionaland physical stress.
I had. 11 moment of of clarity and catharsis and just awakening
like we don't need to go into the details of it, but the the

(01:23:59):
the. The.
The result was just shouting, crying, just just a bad.
Time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just.
Just some stress, both emotion and physical laid on top of each
other just like that. And, and and this peaks with,
with a, with a moment of of kindof catastas clarity, just that,

(01:24:22):
that the, the, the stress of theworld kind of falls away and you
are just a pure soul and a pure being of energy.
And in that. Moment I just cry, I shout, I
just kind of breakdown I for forgive my dad.
I once. I recompose myself.
I go out into the world. The shine is.

(01:24:45):
Sun is shining. I just feel uplifted, just
clear, beautiful, so connected, so full of life, so full, full
of energy. But then kind of life happens.
This kind of feeling kind of subdues I was not in the right

(01:25:05):
place The, the, the, the context.
My context was not good like andjust life creepy and anxieties
that happened so forth. More more recently, a
resurgence. So like 2 months ago I was
actually in Las Vegas for for CES, like a technology company
conference. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And.

(01:25:26):
There was there was a moment of like jet lag, always being a
salesperson in in in our booth. It's a tech invention.
Right. That's the big one.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that that triggers. So then.

(01:25:47):
You have the the the underlying challenge of of dealing with my
my girlfriend, our misalignment on on kids, on family, next
steps. What are we doing And you So you
had the. Girlfriend while you're dealing
with this, right? She's not the ex yet.
Yeah, so. Yeah, yeah.
Let me kind of paint you a picture and just to kind of give
you an idea. So the the flight from London to

(01:26:11):
Las Vegas is I. I forget, I think. 13 hours or
something, I had to stop over somewhere and and then you have
a week of face to face meetings,living in a hotel, eating Uber
Eats, just like you are completely taken out of your

(01:26:33):
usual routine. And thrust.
Into this this world you you need to remember that you are
introverted, so a very stressfulsituation in of itself.
Then back at home you have your girlfriend which you are
misaligned on next steps family you you love this person deeply

(01:26:53):
but but. You.
You. You don't.
Kind of fully align on on a verykind of primal need that you
have then at work. You are not.
You've been there for five years, you are not fully
satisfied with with what's happening with, with your
future, with your career potential and so forth.

(01:27:15):
So like you have these like layers of stress layers on top
of each other and. Then.
You just essentially breakdown again, a moment of clarity.
Again, a moment of catharsis, these things that just fall away
and you are pure, you are just the being of energy.
You are so creative, so driven. You have these ideas.

(01:27:40):
You want to go, you want to do stuff, you want to build stuff,
you want to help people, you want to love people, you want to
connect. And obviously that happens in
the middle of the essentially inthe middle of the show floor,
which which creates, I know putspeople at, at a, at a kind of, I

(01:28:01):
know kind of what's going on, what was happening and so forth.
So. You're you're doing something.
What were you doing? I.
I don't want to go. Go into the details.
Let's just say that. Nothing major, nothing kind of
crazy. So you're just acting?
Different. So you're out of character.

(01:28:22):
Exactly out. Of character to the point where
people are. Concerned.
About it, right? Gotcha.
OK. So yeah.
So yeah. That's that's about it.
And then obviously the conference ends.
I come back to to London and then I'm put on put on sick

(01:28:44):
leave. Just to kind of.
Recuperate. Your SO then your job put you on
sick leave. Well.
I've I've been asked to take some personal time to to kind of
recompose myself. Gotcha.
So it was noticeable enough and concerning enough, the

(01:29:07):
behavioral change that the the workplace was like, hey, maybe
it's time to kind of shift this and, and kind of take a moment
for yourself and kind of figure out what's going on.
Yeah. 100% and I'm deeply grateful for for that.
And. Then you went back home and
you're still dealing with the the girlfriend at this point.

(01:29:27):
Well. Or is she an ex now?
At the you know she. She's now.
An ex we we broke up after I came back from from Las Vegas.
Gotcha. And then that's was that, was
that you that did that? No.
No, it was. It was her.

(01:29:49):
So it was it. Was it?
Was it due to, was it due to like maybe some conversations
you were having while you were in Vegas?
Or was it? Kind of.
Before that it was an. Ongoing process so like.
We've been together for 8:00. Years.
So this this wasn't like a sudden change that happened.

(01:30:13):
Oh, so eight years? OK, Yeah, yeah.
So we. Met essentially a week after we
both arrived here, so in London.So the pretty much the story of
my being She didn't break up with you.
When you were in Vegas, did she?No, no, no, no.
No, no, she's like, don't let's,let's not go there.
She's a absolutely a star, a wonderful woman.

(01:30:33):
She's my friend. She's my sister.
So like, I have no bad blood. No bad.
Oh no, no, I. Was just wondering if that had
anything to could do with no no.There there was a bit of an
implication that, that, that shemight have kind of broken up
with me in, in, in Vegas. I I No, Just no.

(01:30:56):
So yeah, she's. She's, she's a very kind soul.
She's a very good soul and very supportive.
Still very supports me sort of to this day through through this
whole process. And I think.
Yeah. Just made. 11 quick thought, I
think this is this is. What you need?
To be looking for someone that supports you through the kind of
thick and thin I think women. Are.

(01:31:24):
They are. Fighting their own fight and
they, they, they, they, they want to kind of be recognised as
as on a kind of world stage feminism and all of that.
But I think we are. Struggled together and and if if
you can find a woman that that can support you and then just
elevate you and she does that for me, yeah.
Yeah, that's OK. So you were?

(01:31:48):
You were. I do want to.
Go into the this thing where with men and relationships and.
So you you were. Doing the pickup artist thing,
you're chasing tail and then youmoved to London and you've.
You found this partner. And then boom, like you were
just in an 8 year relationship after that.

(01:32:10):
That's not quite, that's not quite the timeline.
So OK, maybe I missed something.Yeah, no, that's.
OK I I I moved countries like 5 times so it's easy to boost
track. OK, so the pickup artistry
happens in Poland between I knowmy years of age 21 and 28.

(01:32:33):
Then I moved to. Prague, right?
Then I moved. To right and you.
So you were just kind of like hanging out when you were in
Prague though, right? Like you were, you're just
basically focused on work prettymuch.
Not going out, just full isolation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I mean, I'm in Ireland

(01:32:55):
and Dublin, I have a team, right?
Right. I feel a bit more.
Connected but but you're having this awakening.
So the. Awakening was towards the end of
my stay in Dublin. I I.
Got. Made redundant, Take the
redundancy pay, start my MBA andmove to Cork.

(01:33:19):
And. Then on a weekly basis I have to
travel by bus from Cork to Dublin, which is like a 2 hour
bus ride. Because my my studies.
Were in Dublin. Cork is like down down South.
Gotcha. After that the the company that

(01:33:40):
the business unit I'm at gets sold off by Michael Dell to a.
Kind of a different company. Yeah, so you're.
Not you're not having any relationship.
Nothing are. You're seeing.
People anything like that? Nothing serious, just kind of
messing. Around, on and off, we're just

(01:34:00):
very casual. I found that at that at that
time in Ireland, there was a lotof people, Polish people and it
was difficult to to date Irish or or other nationalities
because typically the stereotypewas that the Polish man was a,

(01:34:21):
was a kind of blue collar worker.
I know a roofer or or a builder or someone like that.
Gotcha. So when you were swiping.
On Tinder, you I believe that you were looked down on.
Gotcha. Very casual.
Nothing, nothing serious. And I, I couldn't really do
anything serious. Like, once you're busy.

(01:34:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, OK, yeah.
So was there a? Relationship before the London
relationship there was right? No.
Just just casual stuff, so so. Then it was the London 1 that
was kind of the long term 8 yearand then that, that's the one
that ended after, after that convention.

(01:35:02):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
And then So what, what how did like what effect did that have
on on your like understanding of?
Because you seem to be on. The spiritual journey and did
that have an impact on kind of your trajectory there?

(01:35:25):
Which which part? On maybe the spiritual
understanding of yourself in that journey.
And how long ago was this, by the way?
No, I, I. I.
I I still don't quite follow so.The the, the the.
The second episode of the of theawakening let's say happened
like 2 months ago. So this is still very fresh.

(01:35:51):
We are essentially talking in inpresent term.
OK, so the. The relationship just ended.
Yes. Gotcha.
Gotcha. And so did that have any that
motivates you to do something correct?
And that's where like the the podcast comes in.
Yeah, yeah, totally. So so like I've.

(01:36:12):
The podcast is. 11 Enterprise. I've launched.
The crypto coin. Oh, interesting.
I've. I I.
I'm looking. For investment, I'm trying to
build a business. I'm trying to be a startup
founder. I have like loads of ideas like
I go to yoga, I go to the gym, Iwalk, I cycle, I talk to people.

(01:36:38):
So yeah, there's. There's a lot of it's, it's a
very kind of massive but positive shift in my life.
Interesting. That's.
It's. Fascinating that you you you
paint it that way and that you've you've put your energy
towards doing something and it seems that like.
Just based on the. I could be completely wrong, but

(01:36:59):
there's something in your life that takes your attention and
then and then and then like workor some, some form of like
venture in the worm in the realmof work kind of supersedes it.
And, and you're kind of on this journey and then and then a
person kind of comes in and thenlike there it is.

(01:37:21):
And then now we're back to work,but.
The there seems to be. Like a massive disconnect
between you and the partner right on like very fundamental
things. And that seems to be something
that like a lot of dudes find themselves in that situation.
And it's like this understanding, like what's
something simple like like children, right?

(01:37:42):
Like, do you want children, yes or no?
And like that should be an easy,straightforward conversation,
right? And and that actually is not the
case for a lot of people. And you seem to be handling this
break up. Maybe it's just our conversation
now, but you're like, I'm going to take this energy.
I'm going to let it fuel me and I'm going to put it into things
I want to do and that I've talked to some men and

(01:38:05):
situations that were kind of similar and they don't take it
very well, especially when they're older.
And 100% once you're outside of your. 20s it seems to hit a
little bit different. Well, OK.
I can, I can talk about this, but I don't want, I don't want
this to come across as like I'm evangelizing or do this.

(01:38:27):
Don't. Do that kind of like, sure, I
can just share my story and my understanding of things and you
kind of take from that what you what you will.
OK, So let's start with with feminism.
I think what women are doing is.Brave.
And much needed I think they've they, they have been beaten down

(01:38:50):
by by society misogyny men like over the ages just to an insane
degree. Like I think it's their time
100%. Just like I believe it, believe
in it very strongly. There on the flip.
Side that societal shift is justup ending everything and the men

(01:39:20):
are struggling and you just can't don't know how to deal
with it like. One day you.
Are this and the next day you are supposed to be this.
Sometimes you need to be a during the.
Day. At work and B at home, how how
do you flip that switch so quickly?

(01:39:41):
So, so kind of I don't know on. On on a daily.
Basis on an hourly basis almost,yeah, so and especially when it
comes to, to, to parenthood children.
Like for. For me, I, I always wanted to be

(01:40:01):
a father, like from the youngestage that I can form a memory.
I, I, I always wanted that. And sure, maybe like I was
trying to fill a hole that that's fine.
Like it's neither good or bad. Like it's just a need that I'm,
I'm kind of living my truth, butI'm judging myself.
And like, if you, if you choose to judge me, then that's fine,

(01:40:22):
but that's kind of on you. And then?
Yeah, you, you meet this girl that, that, that is absolutely
amazing. And just she, she loves you and
she supports you and like she's everything.
And then she wants to do her ownthing.
She wants to do her family, the,the, the, the career and then
whatever else. And it's just like you, you

(01:40:44):
can't square that circle. Like how?
Do. You deal with such a primal need
of yours and how do you not hurtthe person that loves you so
dearly in in the process? And that was a.
Huge part of the of the breakdown, like it's just an
impossible thing to navigate. Can you repeat that?
For me, one more time, just that, that part that.

(01:41:07):
You love somebody. So much and you're trying.
So which part is the disconnect at?
Like you're trying to live a certain way and you thought this
was the person, but they're not and they're not on the same page
with you. That's what you're saying.
Yes, but they are. They are not the person through
their own fault. It's not their I'm not blaming

(01:41:28):
them, they are. They are not.
Entitled they, they are entitledto their own dreams and
happiness, like coming back to the pursuit of happiness.
Like I'm not going to fault her for trying to focus on her
career or, or just kind of find something for herself.
And I think a lot of the frustration coming from men is

(01:41:48):
that they want to control the women in their lives.
I. Yes, I think that is a big
problem and I think that's a bigpart of that.
Yeah, and exactly. So I.
So. The the situation coming back to
my parents for a second. What?
What? My parents.
Actually gave me is, is the, the, the general sense of

(01:42:12):
equality and, and, and partnership.
They had their issues, but they were on, on, on a very equal
footing. And I always were quite
supportive of, of my partner andjust like, hey, do whatever
makes you happy. I'll, I'll do as much as I can.
I'll support you as much as I can.
I failed in other areas. So I'm not like, I know I'm

(01:42:34):
going to say that I was an amazing partner or, or anything
like that. I mean nobody.
'S perfect, but yeah, no, no butlike I.
Always had this mentality of like you.
Are worthy and you are as. As good as me and like I, I, I,
I. Didn't look down on her.
Or try to control her. So it's just a coming back to

(01:42:55):
your question. I I love this.
Person so dearly and like or like to the best of my
understanding of love anyway. She supports.
Me. She's kind to me, she loves me,
but this, this peace is missing.And and she always kind of saw
it as a that is on on one spectrum.

(01:43:19):
On one kind of. Line but for me it was like 2
lines overlapping or crossing. My relationship with her is is
is one line and the love is is one line but the the the the the
need for the family is is is parallel.
And and and these things. Are are not parallel but but
actually intersecting and we we we just don't align.

(01:43:43):
So it's. I don't know.
It's just kind of at a certain point in the relationship, I
just decided I, I, I don't know.I just need to be.
Leaving my truth and I this kindof dysfunctional relationship
where we are misaligned hurts both parties.
And it's just for the. Sake of happiness for the for

(01:44:03):
for our own sake, mental health,all of that mutual respect.
Let's let's just go. And I'm, I'm thankful that she
actually broke up with me. I'm not sure I would would would
have been able to make that step.
You brought. Up something really really,
really, really, really, really important and I think that it
doesn't get talked about enough and it's something that I, I,

(01:44:26):
I'm fucking really grateful I, Iunderstood really early on
because I don't know how. I grew up in.
AI grew up in a really volatile household.
Very abusive. Stepfather I didn't know my real
father and very. Mother it's.

(01:44:50):
Actually, not that bad. I grew up.
I grew up knowing a lot of men who who tried to tell me what it
meant to be a man and none of them could even like.
Explain. What that was if they tried and
most of them were just kind of insecure dudes who were trying
to figure it out and. And it is what it.
Is man, like a lot of a lot of dudes were doing the the chest

(01:45:10):
puffing and all of that shit or like beta males trying to be
alpha males in a space where they can't compete.
And then and so it's not actually a thing where where
dudes are trying to like help another dude up.
They're actually just trying. To keep other dudes down right.
And and it's, it's kind of sad because it's actually a

(01:45:34):
disservice. And it really.
Stems from fears and insecurities of not being enough
and whatnot and so you know I, Igrew up knowing a lot of dudes
who just kind of justify their environment and their choices in
retrospect just so that they cantell themselves a story that
makes them feel good about wherethey're at in life based on the
failures that they don't want totalk about And I think the real

(01:45:55):
strength is in the failures thatwe should be talking about but
I, I grew up like with mostly women and being around women and
so my relationships tend to revolve around I like I have a
hard time having close relationships with men, which is
one of the reasons that I wantedto start this this whole thing

(01:46:19):
because I was like there's no fucking way there's like there's
got to be more dudes like me right like and there and the
problem was I was I was having Iwas trying to have relationships
with men good relationships withmen who who.
Were actually like the wrong. Types of men, right?
Which were closer. To the types of men that I grew
up knowing who were kind of leading me astray and.

(01:46:43):
And so it's kind. Of like in the in in The Lion
King, right where Scar kind of tricks Mufasa and then he tried
and he tricks Simba. And it's like, those are the
kind of men I was growing up with, and those are the wrong
type of men. And but you.
Brought up something about. How men?
Have relationships with women. And.

(01:47:05):
It's a very. I I don't even know.
How to like frame it, But to me it's a very possessive,
possessive way of having a relationship with a, with a.
With a woman. Or another partner, just a
partner in general, right? Like it doesn't.
Even have to be a woman. It could be, you know, whatever
your preference is like it and it doesn't it, it bleeds out

(01:47:27):
into our social circles where everything becomes a possession.
And I've never viewed people as possessions or objects.
I viewed people as these things that emerge and exist, not
things like in a pejorative sense, but like a spirit of God
that exists in a certain way that I observe, interact and
commune with. And so like, if I close my eyes

(01:47:51):
and I'm in a room, can't be in that room with you and I don't
feel you in that room with me ona spiritual level, like that's
how I see people. That's like, if we can't get
along on that level, everything else is just kind of taken for
granted. And like it, it's, it's just a
superficial story I tell myself if I don't want to be alone,
right? So I kind of.
Live my relationships and in a way that it's like I'm kind of

(01:48:14):
at the altar praying to God. And if you're with me here, then
then we are on in line towards the same thing.
And so then we can we can be together.
And if you're not, then that's fine.
But I'm going to. Be here doing this thing and
that's I'm I'm on a grander mission to do something and and.

(01:48:36):
So. I often tell this to my partner.
It's kind of like we're if. Our paths.
Align that we're heading to the same place, the one on the same
train heading in the same place.But there's nothing wrong with
us sitting next to next to each other and having a conversation
and like helping each other through that.
And if one day, you know, you decide maybe this is the wrong
train for me, then I will love you anyways, right?

(01:48:58):
And so that's why I often explain that she is the closest
to God I've ever felt. Because I've never left this.
Position. Of service and prayer to God.
And what she has done is she's met me there, right?
And so my interaction with her is how I understand God on the

(01:49:20):
physical plane, right? And that's, that's to me is the
purpose of church, right? It's not my relationship with
God is not for you to understand, It's for me to
understand, right? And then when you and I are, you
know, in this example, if you and I share time at a church,
that is how you and I interact and share our understanding of
God with each other and pay respects to that.

(01:49:45):
And you can't do that through possession and selfishness, self
seeking behavior that leads to this undue suffering, right?
Because then in those situations, it's like, well,
who's actually suffering? Right, because most.
Most men are upset, angry, and lash out at the world for the
suffering and choices that they made.

(01:50:07):
And I've been there, right? Like I've been there too, right?
Like I'm, I can be upset like, oh, fuck this.
I have to go to this job that I hate.
And it's like, well, no one's telling you to do that.
You can just stop. And it's like, well, I can't
just do that. And it's like, no, you can,
right? And so, so then it's like, if
you're going to be honest with yourself, then be honest with
yourself, right? And and so I.

(01:50:29):
On some level you become the the.
Shepherd of the things that you want to be shepherding and and
if you're the wrong shepherd, God will put you in a different
position. Yes, I think be honest.
With yourself, but also be honest with the people around
you be transparent and and be vulnerable.
I I think we. We we are just fundamentally.

(01:50:51):
Disconnected from each other, wefear connection, we we fear
being heard and we we lie to each other.
We don't tell people, hey, I need love, I need, I need touch,
I need sex. I need connection.
I need, I don't know, something and any kind of phrase it in in
different ways that just I don'tdon't resonate with people,
right. And I think.
That's what I meant though, right?

(01:51:12):
Like, because if you to your point, if you can't be honest
with yourself, then can you be honest with another human being,
right? And if they're a possession?
Then you don't have any any if if the understanding is that
they are some some kind of a possession, some object that you
pick up, put down, then there isactually no fundamental need to
even explore the idea or understanding that maybe you
need to be honest with this person and and to to piggyback

(01:51:34):
on on or to add to that, it's like the idea.
That people don't. Like they're not static, right?
So we constantly emerge. So maybe in the situation where
it like, you know, I'd never wanted to be a father.
I never wanted children. And as I get older, I'm like,
fuck, dude, do I? Maybe I do.
I don't know. Right.
And it's like my partner and I have an understanding of where

(01:51:55):
our where that is right. And so it's like, am I lying?
And it's like, no, I changed. Is that wrong?
It's like, no. And then it's like.
If. If that is my truth.
Then I should be willing to walkaway from a situation like, you
know, yes, 100. 100% right and. And.

(01:52:16):
It's it's OK to change your mind.
Yes, there there is an argument to be made that you do.
You can be changing your mind ona daily basis because there is a
need for stability of some sort in a relationship.
But yes, as long as you speak your truth in the moment and
your intent is pure and and likeyour energy is pure and like not
clouded by by by by, you know, hate or or selfishness or

(01:52:38):
jealousy or or possessiveness orwhatever else.
I think you are justified. In any really being honest and
speaking your truth 100%. Yeah, and then there's.
Another part of that too, where like men.
I I've. Known a lot of men who are like
super broken up because, you know, they're a certain age and
they don't have a relationship and, and and it's like, I don't

(01:53:02):
understand the entitlement that one should like have a
relationship because they exist.And.
And a lot of it usually stick because I, I, I had trouble with
relationships when I was younger, right?
Like I, and it's like I had to understand myself a little bit
and like what I like and dislike.
And, and if I didn't know that, how was I going to share that
with some, right? And none of my goals aligned

(01:53:23):
with having to share any of them.
I'd like I don't. I can be single.
No. Problem if I've never want to
get married or have children, there's no why would I need to
get married and have children ifI want to live a life that
aligns with being single? Do you see what I'm saying?
Like there's no advantage to anyof those things.
Like the things that come, the sacrifices and the the fun and

(01:53:46):
all the other stuff that comes with being in a relationship is
very different lifestyle than the one that comes with being
single, being able to do whatever you want, having no
accountability to anybody but yourself, right?
And like, neither one of those paths is wrong necessarily.
If that's what you want, no. A. 100% I I agree with you.

(01:54:06):
I, I, I I don't really have anything to add.
It's yeah. This has been super interesting.
Super interesting. Yeah.
OK. I guess let's go back to some
more questions really quick and then I'm just going to ask you
like straight up. Is there any?

(01:54:28):
Questions during this interview that I didn't ask that you wish
I did. OK.
Maybe. If we assume that.
We are kind of slowly wrapping up.
What I wanted to. Say is that?

(01:54:48):
Change is possible. You.
You. You.
Are absolutely on point. I think we emerge again and
again on on a daily basis on, onon, on small in kind of small
degree, small, small scale. So change is possible.
Like perhaps like, you know, Jordan Peterson is a is a

(01:55:09):
controversial person, but I've never.
Heard of him? Oh.
OK, he's quite a controversial person, but I'm just kidding.
OK. But this?
This, this is this is my my autism speaking.
Yeah, yeah. I didn't.
I didn't pick up on that. No, I'm.
I'm. It's so hard to tell over just
vocals. All right, go ahead.

(01:55:30):
But yeah. Controversial.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clean.
Your clean your room, the simplestuff every day that there is a
saying from a meal cook coke where every day I'm getting
better in every way. Just small things small.
Just wake up, do your room, shave yourself, go for a run, go

(01:55:55):
for a walk, eat clean. Just OK.
If if you, if you, I don't know,drink, drink a beer every day at
at work or after work, drink half a beer.
See what changes. And just like small, these kind
of small changes can have a veryprofound effect.

(01:56:17):
And I think, yeah. Let me be an.
Inspiration to to you guys. I'd love to if you have stories,
I'd love to hear with with talk to you hear your stories.
I do have a podcast. I will be talking about dating
relationships specifically in inLondon, but it doesn't really

(01:56:38):
matter. It can be global.
I'd love to understand how you guys.
Find it to. Today's world of dating how
your. Your your.
Kind of horror stories, ghosting, heartbreak, obviously
success stories. I'd love to hear about those.
I think there are more than enough kind of success stories

(01:56:59):
to talk about. We women are valuable, are are
great, are are human, just like you and me.
They deserve to be loved. They want to love you and I'm
I'm here to build bridges and I'm here to build the
connections and, and for myself,but also I want to kind of help
you guys. Yeah, name.

(01:57:20):
What was the, you said the this podcast is new, something you're
working on now, right? Yeah, yeah.
So it's it's. I don't even have an, an episode
published. I have a website and an idea.
I'm I'm speaking with a bunch ofpeople to to get them to to
speak with me. What is?
What is the? Website.
What is the podcast called? It's called penis in vagina, so

(01:57:43):
PIVPIV podcast the website is penis in vagina one word.
What? What drove you?
To that title. It's a it's an inside joke
between me and my my now ex-girlfriend.
Oh interesting. It's about it's about human

(01:58:04):
connection. So is it?
Named in her honour? No.
No. It's it's, it's a joke.
It's a. Mem, it's AI don't know, it's
just something to laugh about. I think we today with you, we
went quite deep. We went quite deep and I want to
take maybe a slightly more lighthearted approach.

(01:58:26):
It is just a mem. It's just a bit of fun and it's
all it like I guess the name implies sex, which is not the
intent. It's more about it's more about
the duality of man, the female and the male, how we connect,
how we communicate, how we trusteach other, how we how we form

(01:58:48):
bonds. How do we navigate hook up
culture? Is, is hook up culture OK?
Is it positive? Is it negative?
Yeah. So.
It's. Just a name.
It's it's yeah. If it offends you, if that, I
guess, I guess I know it is whatit is.
For me. It's it's a meaningful,

(01:59:08):
meaningful name. Gotcha.
Yeah, I. Just, I mean, if that's what
you're trying to convey, I I would have, if someone told me
that was the the podcast name orlike the publication name,
that's not where my head would have gone.
Well, yeah. I.
Mean, but it's it's your. Thing right like so I have.
No say on that and. No judgment.
You do your thing. I've.

(01:59:29):
I've. Abbreviated it to to PIV so
there is there are two domains actually.
So penis in vagina Co UK is 1. If you if you are somehow
offended or I know not safe for work, whatever, there is also
PIV .0. Yeah, I mean think about.
That yeah, the. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, that'd be a hard share.
Huh. Hey.

(01:59:51):
Bro, check this out. Yeah.
Yeah, but no, totally, totally. So yeah, I've, I've, I thought
about it. PIV dot London is the safer
world version. Dot London, yeah, PIV, dot
London, PIV, the PIV podcast. That's yeah, I like that one.
Yeah, that's awesome. I guess based on like we covered

(02:00:18):
so much ground here, man, I'd like we're like 2 hours in.
What do you? What do you think it actually?
Means to be a man when someone says be a man or.
To emerge as a man What? Does that what?
Does that mean to you, based on everything we've talked about
and your understanding in the world?

(02:00:41):
Good one. Just be brave, I think.
Be not in a kind of aggressive, arrogant way, but.
Just be. Vulnerable.
Pick your truth. Set goals for.
Yourself think big, challenge yourself.

(02:01:06):
Go for it. Trust for for the trust around
the the people around you. I think there is AII forgot.
I think. I think.
That the name of the movie is the Sole Sole Survivor or or
something like that with Mark Wahlberg.
There is there is a quote at thethe beginning.

(02:01:29):
It's about the Navy Seals. Anything worth doing is is worth
overdoing so. Pour.
Yourself into whatever like findyour passion, find your thing
and pour yourself into that and and you can't be unhappy if if

(02:01:51):
you find that yeah. That's solid.
Yeah. That's more and more I'm finding
that that's. Like I don't.
I don't know, like the people who don't seem to be missing or
lacking meaning in their life. It's like they found this thing
and it's, it's like their thing and they have a connection to it
and like they just do it. Whether it pays, whether it

(02:02:12):
doesn't pay, whether it sucks, whether it doesn't suck outside,
like whatever, like day or night, rain or shine, they're
they're doing that thing. That's all.
And any advice or suggestions you can give to like, you know,
a young man or just any man who might be struggling in life
right now journey maybe something you wished someone

(02:02:35):
would have told you when you were young man.
I'm not sure I. Will have to potentially get the
back on this one for for you because it's difficult for me to
answer the like of the. I think what you said earlier is
a is a is a kind of profound statement or or just something

(02:02:58):
where where my head is going. To talk to people.
Like you, you thought that you were alone, that you were
special, that you were kind of this, this I know, special being
that that has figured this all out clearly.
Well, you are special in your own way, but I'm specially in my
own way. We have a very similar kind of

(02:03:18):
way of thinking about things before I definitely.
Don't have any of this figured. Out, brother.
No, no, but. I I.
I think you are you are on the right track, but be be.
Before you before. Me.
There were there were other great thinkers, great figures,
great philosophers. Read books.
If you are struggling, read books.

(02:03:38):
Go to your local library, pick up a book, read it, listen to
podcasts. Be careful.
You be careful to what you're listening to.
Just take things that work for you.
Judge them. Some are productive, others are
not productive. So you need to be kind of
careful about who you follow as a teacher, as a mentor.

(02:04:01):
Fill your fill your life with love and kindness and and
understanding and patience and be close to God, whatever that
means. Fill your life with a, with a
life of service charity, help anolder person across the street,
like clean your room. That's, that's pretty much it.

(02:04:25):
That's solid. That's honestly, that's super
solid. Jacob, thank you so much for
taking the time to have this conversation with me.
I think it was a really impactful and profound
conversation, at least for myself.
Yeah. Best wishes on your journey.
Absolutely and. Likewise, thank you so much.

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Jakub – Big Tech Startups, Bad Breakups, Casual Sex, Mental Health, and Esoteric Spirituality Awakenings

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