James – Atheist, Blogger, Dad, and Podcaster - STAG

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
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(00:24):
Thanks for your support. Now here's the interview.
All right, James, welcome, Sir. I appreciate you doing this last
minute. It's always fun when I can
connect with somebody, you know,the day before and then just
kind of go for it and figure it out on the fly.
Because I think a lot of momentsin life or just kind of, you

(00:45):
know, pivoting and learning to pivot and being good on your
toes, just so to speak. Can you help us start by
explaining who you are, where you're from, how you got to this
point in time? Go for it.
Yeah. So a million different answers
there. I am a yeah father, husband in

(01:14):
my early 40s. I live in Arizona currently,
kind of bounced bounce back and forth around the country a
little bit. Yeah, more of a working class.
We're working class upbringing and definitely more of like a

(01:38):
upper class lifestyle now. Cool.
You said you're in your early 40s and before we were speaking
on Live, we were talking about you're about to be a dad, right?
About, yeah, about to have. So my wife is due I think on

(01:59):
Monday or Tuesday. So, yeah, so she could, she
could go into labor any moment now.
That's so exciting. I mean, are you excited?
Yeah, excite. I've come around on the idea.
No, no, I'm not excited, but I think I'll be fine.
You know, like babies are extremely disruptive and so I'm

(02:21):
not really looking forward to having my entire life being
disrupted. But like I said, I think I think
in the long run, I don't know too many parents that are like,
damn, I wish I never had that kid.
So I mean, like, I like, I realized kids are, are a lot
more rewarding and, and beneficial or, you know, you

(02:48):
know, whatever. Like all like the selfish
reasons, right? Like, like, like the kids give
back, you know, more and more asthey get older and you know, you
have different, the relationshipchanges.
But yeah, baby just, you know, it's very, very disruptive.
So I'm, I guess I'm selfishly looking forward for like the
babyface to be over. Oh, gotcha.
OK. So it's the, it's the babyface

(03:10):
specifically that you're you're not looking forward to.
I mean, that's part, yeah, that's part part of it, you
know, like I'm not really excited about losing sleep.
The. How dare you?
Even even just like the repetitive cycle of the, you
know, the two to three hour repeat cycle is a bit tedious

(03:34):
for me. But like I said, I mean, this is
like this is someone that has a really good life complaining
about something that's pretty petty, so.
Yeah, but there's a lot of people out there who, I mean, I
agree with you. I I mostly find I don't have any
issue with, you know, being a father or anything.

(03:55):
I don't I'm not now, but I find babies, most babies are
extremely fucking ugly and extremely fucking annoying.
And then when they kind of grow up a little bit and they're like
they hit the like toddler age. They're they're kind of
adorable. But then it really it's like
once they're older, they tend togrow personalities and not be so

(04:17):
fucking annoying. But baby phase, I think is the
most annoying thing in the world.
And there's other people out there and respectfully, I guess
I'm saying that I'm not I'm not like cold blooded about it.
And that in in this like black hearted, I hate babies thing.
But there's people out there who, who fool themselves in line
just because it's socially acceptable and it's some kind of

(04:39):
a social norm to be like, Oh, look at your adorable baby, How
beautiful. Or Oh no, being a parent is the
best thing that ever happened tome.
I love suffering so much. And the reality is that that's
not, that's not always the case,like with anything else, right?
It's like there's, there's people who are not, it's not,

(04:59):
they don't enjoy it, they're notfor it and what not.
But so it's, it's refreshing to hear somebody just be honest
about it, especially a dude likespecifically around like
fatherhood in general. Like, was this something that
was planned? Was it by accident?
Do you guys all get surprised when when you found out what
you're like, oh, shit. Well, my life's about to really

(05:22):
change? Or were you like, excited, minus
the baby side of, you know, having to deal with those tasks?
How were you kind of engaging or, you know, existing with all
this news? So I was an adult that didn't
want to have kids. I was interested in in adopting
as a possibility, but but I was anti like biological offspring.

(05:48):
So my first, my daughter's 7, she was born and my wife was on
an IUD. So we're one of those one in
1000 couples that get pregnant with an IUD.
And so the, the first time was anew experience.
And so I think a lot, you know, like I, I think the novelty of

(06:13):
it made, made it just completelydifferent.
Whereas this time I already knoweverything that's going to
happen. There's the, I have no sense of
novelty whatsoever. So it definitely, it's
definitely not something that I'm excited about as I already
mentioned. OK, so it's not your first

(06:34):
child. Yeah.
It's not no, no, no, it's my second, OK.
And, and, and, and my wife was trying, she had tried a couple
years ago as well and it didn't happen.
And so I, I just, you know, I just kind of assumed that it
wasn't going to happen. You know, we're, you know, we're
both a little older. She's she's a bit young, younger

(06:54):
than me, but you know, you know,we're kind of older.
And so I just kind of assumed that I just kind of assumed it
wasn't going to happen and then it did.
And so it's kind of taking it, taking it day by day to kind of
enjoying the last days without the baby.

(07:16):
You know, I mentioned my daughter 7 and that's like a
really awesome stage. Like she's getting a lot of, you
know, like she's almost at that age where we could leave her
home. She's got her own personality,
as you mentioned, you know, she's very functional.
She knows how to read. You know, she, you know, we play
chess, you know, we do things traveling.

(07:36):
She's like an awesome traveler, which in.
Yeah, so just like starting overdoes is starting over does seem
like I don't know the right wordfor it, but yeah, it's it's
definitely like I said, you know, like all those, all those
emotions that you can clearly, you know, see that that that

(07:57):
kind of tie together. Yeah, that's interesting that
your feelings towards kind of like doing this again was so it
was seems like it was kind of planned, but it it was also a
surprise. Is that am I reading that right?
Yeah, it's more like, like my wife was definitely planning to

(08:18):
do it and I just was in that thing like, yeah, you know,
maybe it won't happen, you know,like I was just just living in
my God fantasy world, you know, and.
You're like, knock yourself out.It's not going to happen.
Yeah, I mean, like as as a guy, like I'm all about, you know,
opportunities to have more sex in life.
So I was like, yeah, cool, you know, let's have sex.

(08:40):
You know, I like that idea. And yeah, you just kind of
assume that that things will go,you know, will go your way.
Yeah, just kind of very much just living in in the moment, I
guess. Do you think that, I mean, you
said your daughter's 7 and you're in your 40s.
Do you think that waiting a little bit longer in life like

(09:03):
you know, did that help you think you're maybe your feelings
or stability or anything like that as far as being a father
versus if you maybe had her whenyou were in your 20s?
Yeah, I think there's definitelytrade-offs there, but I would, I
would assume and imagine that for the large majority of people

(09:27):
at least at least in this day and age, maybe like maybe like
early to mid 30s is probably peak, peak time.
You're you're definitely older. You have it, you know, a solid
decade of adult experience. And I think 40s is too old.
I mean to be honest, like. Really.
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm going to be I'm going to be like 60 years

(09:49):
old when this next kid graduateshigh school.
That's kind of, I don't know. It seems kind of kind of weird,
like going sitting, you know, going, I don't know.
But you know, I'm hoping to be an active healthy 60 year old.
But but yeah, so I would say 40sa bit too old, but like early
30s is is is probably peak like you, you, you, you know, you

(10:10):
have the experience, you're older, mature.
I mean, I think all all those things are huge.
Been been benefits, I'm not surelike where the tipping scale
kind of goes. Obviously being more wealthy is
a huge benefit for the, you know, the children as well.
So but yeah, I do think at some point, I mean, also just just in
general, the older the parents are, you know, the more likely

(10:32):
you have things like, you know, whatever, you know, the
neurological disorders and and other, you know, type types of
disorders. So, So as far as like the kid
you like biological success? Yeah, probably like early 30s.
Early to mid 30s I would suspectwould be like peak got.

(10:53):
You you're talking about like the the risk factors of
birthing. Yeah.
I mean, you know, like it's smaller, but still like like the
like the all around package, youknow, like like getting educated
parents optimal biological DNA type type of thing.
I I would suspect that like mid to early 30s would be the ideal

(11:16):
time. You said you used to be a
teacher, correct? Yes.
What did you teach and how long ago was that?
Was that your first like career out of like college thing?
Yeah, pretty much. I, I joined the military after
high school and then from the military I went to college.

(11:36):
And then after college I joined the Peace Corps.
And I, I taught two years in thePeace Corps, English as a second
language. And then that's when I, I
decided to, to go full on being a teacher and I taught English
language arts. So after that, when I got home
from the Peace Corps, I, I went back to college again so I could
very cool English as a language.Why are you enjoying the

(12:01):
military? Yeah, it's a good question.
One one I've been thinking about.
It'd be nice if I would have wrote some stuff about it.
At the time I think partially I didn't have any idea what I
wanted to do with my life and so.
Right. That was a way to to do

(12:23):
something and not have to commit.
I was patriotic. I had a high school teacher that
was a very patriotic and I had him for a, a double class.
Like he, he taught me my Englishand, and history for my junior
and senior year. So I was, I spent a lot of time
with him. He, he definitely probably

(12:45):
influenced me. I had an uncle who was, who was
in the military and he, he kind of rubbed off some positive
ideas about about it as well. So I'm not sure if how much of
it was filling a duty, but I think it was more just wanting,
I, I wanted to go to college eventually and I knew that

(13:10):
military would would be a way that I could pay for college.
And so that was probably part part of it as well.
But yeah, I mean, this is hindsight.
This was over, this was over 2020 years years ago now.
So right. Yeah, a combination of those
things, I think. I think I did want the status as

(13:30):
well. I wanted the status of being a
military person. I, I was under the impression
that that women were going to love me and, and other things
like that that I think I got from the, the misconceptions of
what it means to join. Whereas society holds, society

(13:52):
has a fairly high, I guess a fairly high status of, you know,
like we, we do decent, you know,for we're subsidizing the
financial costs like the military doesn't pay much, but I
think society does compensate a bit for like status.

(14:14):
So that was probably at least partially weighing into
something. I mean, I obviously I wasn't
consciously thinking about that at all at the time.
Yeah, because they think the military is.
Those are a lot of the reasons why I was looking to join when I
was around 17. And it's just, you know, if
there's dudes out there, you know, coming out of, you know,

(14:35):
high school who have no idea what to do.
And honestly, if you have some inkling or idea of like maybe
I'm going to go to college lateror I'm just trying to do
something or participate in anything or find it.
Military is not a bad route. I I don't think, I mean, even if
you're just in for four years and and then you're done, do you

(14:56):
know some people make a career out of it?
I know plenty of people who stayed and are doing is super
awesome in life. And I know other people who, you
know, just did their four and got out and are doing a pretty
good and we're better off because they did it.
And I'm not saying people have to go to the military, but you
know, given the choice and, you know, rewinding the clock for
myself, I would definitely have have taken the opportunity and,

(15:19):
and and done that. Did you?
You didn't have any like troubles in your like teens or
anything. You weren't like particularly
struggling. Home life was OK.
All the all the above. I, I think, I think my home life
was a little bit of a mixed bag.I think like earlier on would
have been a little more abnormal.

(15:40):
But by the time I was in high school, I think fairly normal
definitely didn't have any any troubles.
I had maybe like a 3.6 or 3.7 grade point average in high
school. So I was, I, I was one, one of
those kids. Like I did all my assignments.
I, I didn't care about learning.I just kind of did what like I

(16:01):
was really good at following instructions and doing what I
was supposed to be doing. So I had probably a
significantly above average responsibility.
And my parents were, I mean, they, they said we should get
good grades and whatnot, but I had a younger brother and he

(16:21):
didn't follow the rules and the actual consequences weren't
really there. So, so it was one of those
things like I was kind of following my parents, but I also
knew that it wasn't, I mean, my parents weren't checking to see
if we did our homework. Like they would say like, oh,
make sure you do your homework, But then they didn't know if we
did our homework or not. I did mine and my brother.
And so like, as far as you know,so it wasn't that big of a

(16:45):
difference. I ended up being in, I ended up
getting into an honors class andacademically I reading level
wise, like I should never have been in that class.
But I think just because I was well behaved and I got good
grades, I just, I ended up in there somehow.
The class was a lot harder for me than most of my peers.

(17:06):
But like, like I said, I, I was someone that, you know, did what
I was supposed to do. And so I think the teacher
probably like inflated my grade a little bit, you know, because
I tried hard, but definitely, definitely didn't care about
learning, but was fairly responsible.
And yeah, I mean, I didn't applyto a single college.

(17:26):
I didn't take the Sats. I was a little, I was definitely
self-conscious about the Sats because I was a well below
average, like I, I may have beenlike a standard of standard
deviation below the national average in reading.
So that, so that was something that like I had a stigma about.
I I was never liked reading growing up.

(17:46):
And, and it was one of those things that I was self-conscious
about to the point where I didn't even take the Sats and no
one was in inland and I didn't have anyone really influencing
me telling me I should, you know, my parents didn't give me
any guidance about going to college or what I should do.
They didn't want me to join the military.
But but you know, like I said, they were working class.

(18:09):
My dad never graduated high school, my mom never.
My mom's when a person's like, never read a book in her entire
life. So yeah, it just just didn't
really have the influences that most of my peers, you know, that
do go to college. You know, most of my college
peers didn't have the same type of background as them.

(18:31):
Right, what? What did?
If you don't mind me asking, What did your parents do for
work? So my my dad originally was
mixer truck driver, you know, solike driver, truck, truck
driver. And then he.
He transitioned later in life. He he worked for a nonprofit at

(18:51):
a high school, not the one I that, that I went to, but a
different high school. So he eventually was like an
admin at a high school. He he was a scheduling
coordinator is what is what theycalled it.
And then my mom worked at a bankand then she eventually
collected student loans. So, yeah, I mean, you know, just

(19:14):
like we're working class, just work, work, work, work in class
positions. My, my, my dad got the job at
the school through the unemployment program because he
was done. Like he didn't want to get dirty
anymore. He, he was tired of getting
dirty and he just wanted to likewear, wear a tie, a shirt and
tie. And he had and he had sold cars

(19:36):
in in between there as well. Yeah.
So they're just kind of making it work, right.
I was just curious to see if there was a like a reason why
they were apprehensive about youjoined.
The military, so there wasn't a war going on at the time.

(19:57):
But yeah, I, I don't recall exactly, but they were, I, you
know, I think they could see through the, you know, the
recruiters. BSA lot.
I mean, I couldn't, so that's probably partially it.
Yeah, there is some salesmanshipon that end for sure.
Oh, absolutely. You said that your, your your

(20:19):
childhood was a little bit tumultuous, right?
Wait, what about it? You said teens were good, but,
you know, before that was not sogood.
What what about it was kind? Of awesome.
So I, I think I had a great child childhood.
I, I think the things where people might dis OK, so a bunch
of different layers to this, this as well.

(20:41):
We, we lived kind of isolated, you know, down dirt roads and we
lived in a single wide trailer that had a, you know, so always
had plenty of food. Like never was never hungry.
My, I think my mom probably worelike second hand clothing, but
we always at least had a couple outfits, you know, brand new

(21:03):
whenever school started. So we had, we, we had plenty.
My, my dad, I, I didn't realize this at the time, but like my
dad was a drug addict and, but like, from my perspective, it
was fun. Like he used to bring, like he
used to dumpster dive, he used to raid garage sales and you
know, so he was constantly bringing home like boxes of
broken toys or like old, you know, like Atari or Sega, you

(21:27):
know, get like, so he, there wasjust a constant flux of just
like junk. But as a kid you don't realize
like that's weird and it's just kind of cool and really funny.
So, and so my dad was, and he was also very much into me and
my brother's interest. So like we, my dad never played
sports, never liked sports, but that was like my brother and I's

(21:48):
life. And so he got really into that.
He would, he got into baseball cards and, you know, sports
cards with us. We eventually got into comic
books. He, you know, so he so he was
very much involved in our interest.
And in hindsight, it's kind of it's, you know, it's kind of
obvious the ways that him being a drug addict was affecting

(22:09):
things around the family. But it was just so normal to me
that, that it, it, it never occurred to me, even though even
when I was well old enough to understand and to realize it, I
still didn't quite put the pieces together.
I was probably close to 3rd, 30 years old before I finally
realized, oh shit, dad was a drug addict.

(22:30):
And it's like blatantly obvious he was type of thing.
Yeah. You know, what's really funny
about that is I, my stepfather who raised me, that was a
similar situation. And, and there's this weird
thing that you're describing that I remember feeling as a kid

(22:51):
that like this guy's a wacky person, but like he's fun,
right? What a, what a fun wacky person
because they're doing really random things that are engaging
to my level at, at that time, right?
And it's like, but now as an adult, I would recognize that as
complete addict behavior, right?Like doing really like, because
like my dad, my stepdad would, his thing was like tinkering

(23:15):
with cars and, and, and modifying all that stuff, right?
And, and so like, I was like, oh, this guy's fun.
And he's like, no, he's on meth and he won't stop doing
projects. You know what I mean?
Like, but like from an outsider as a kid, I didn't know that,
right. And, and so when you're
describing this, I think that's so funny.
It's my childhood and it's a fascinating, the level of

(23:36):
engagement that is kind of associated with that behavior
where I, I don't even know. I don't know if I obviously I
can't speak for your dad, but for mine, it was like it sounded
like he was trying to be engagedor from what I recall and like,
I don't know, it's it's fascinating and.
Just like, you know, to tie it back to parenting.

(23:57):
Parenting's probably a lot funner when when you're on meth
all the time. Don't do math.
But yeah, probably. I don't know.
I don't. I've never done.
Math, that's the thing like, like is, but is, is, is
parenting being fun like the gold standard?
Probably not. You know, probably like being a
responsible parent is probably alittle better than just like
having fun being a parent the whole time.

(24:20):
Well, yeah. Well, you know, what's
interesting is since we're on this topic, I was I was
listening to a podcast the otherday and I usually don't
reference podcasts on here, but the topic is is similar and I
can't remember which I don't want to name drop, but it is a
podcast. It's pretty big.
It's not Joe Rogan and there wasa porn star on there or adult

(24:45):
sex worker or whatever was on there.
And she was talking about, you know, having so much money and
all this. And she had some conservative
lady like kind of grilling her or whatever.
And and the, you know, the lady was like, hey, but like, don't
you think that like you, you know, I want to be a parent one
day And then like, how do you feel about that?
And your kids are going to know And she's like, I don't know.
I'm going to be able to provide them.

(25:07):
I have so much money. I'm going to be able to provide
them anything they want, whatever they want to do,
whatever they want to go, I'm going to be able to be around
them and do all those things. And she didn't say it, but I was
thinking like, hey, like an active, engaged parent who's
there and can provide. Is that regardless of of her
background as far as how she made her money, it's like, is
that not what is it about society that wouldn't say that

(25:30):
that's probably, she's probably a better parent for it than
people who can't provide. And, and I find that to be
fascinating and an interesting topic that I think that the the
lines of of how the story behindthings is how we kind of measure
it's worth not really the thing that we're trying to obtain in

(25:53):
this case. We're like parenting is not just
parenting. It's it's also the story of how
it came to be. So without having heard that in
an interview and just just a fewthings there.
So obviously society does have ahuge stigma against that those
professions. So that's like that's definitely
going to influence the kids regardless as well.

(26:15):
I think the other, the other idea too, is, is how much of the
mother's identity is going to bearound whatever she's doing now.
Like how much of her identity ishaving, you know, 10 million
followers, You know, I'm not sure, but, but there could be
aspects of that profession in, in aspects of, of what it makes
her become that could make some challenges for, for being a

(26:37):
parent. If, if, you know, if she can't
just like retire and that part of my life is gone.
I'm moving on. And now I'm cool with being
whatever this new phase is, you know, so, so, so obviously I'm
not sure. I've never been in that
industry. And I think it's a lot different
for women and and men as well, as far as you know the

(26:59):
differences. It's true.
It's never too late, James. Never too late.
Well, yeah, it's definitely too late, but.
All right, so, so you had a, a dad was a drug addict.
She didn't know. So childhood was kind of
affected by that. Is that what you were trying to

(27:19):
get at with you know? No, I wasn't actually.
I was just. I didn't pick getting that,
yeah. No, no.
So, so I think this, this is the, this is the aspect that,
that an outsider, like, let's say my, my friend's from, from,
from the Peace Corps, OK, most of my Peace Corps friends both

(27:40):
have like college educated parents and they went to private
schools or like their parents had to pay for them to go to
college, you know, like, so likethey're not getting any, any,
you know, grants at all to go tocollege.
Whereas like my background is like my friends that went to
college, like we all got like grants and stuff, you know, so,
so like, just like a different background.

(28:01):
So like, so for my Peace Corps friends to, to hear about my
upbringing, like they would think like, that's like
terrible. Oh, your dad's a drug addict.
You live in a trailer, you're ondirt roads.
But you know, like, so I don't see it that way because it, you
know, I, it's my childhood. I'd like, I like, I get it
there. I have this like possession over

(28:22):
it, But I, I like where, where Iam in life.
I like, I like who I am. I realize how much my childhood
had to do with that. If I had the ideal childhood
that I would give to a child. I don't know where I am today.
I mean, maybe I'm doing better. It's most likely I probably am,
but I'd be a completely different person.

(28:43):
It's hard to say. So, so I wasn't trying to say
that that it was bad. I think it's very good because
there was, you know, you know, it's all trade-offs, but there
were, you know, there were some things that.
Yeah, yeah. It's just hard to, OK, it's hard

(29:05):
to, it's hard to change anythingabout my childhood because,
like, what does that effect havetoday?
So like, because I'm content with who I am today, I wouldn't
change anything about my childhood, even though, like,
I'll be the first to admit that there's a lot of unideal
aspects. Like one of them is like books,
like we didn't have books in thehouse.
I don't ever remember my parentsreading to me.

(29:26):
We got to watch as much TV and play as many video games as we
wanted. I don't ever remember a bedtime.
It's like that's kind of cool and fun.
If you're a kid, you can watch as much TV as you want, play as
much video games as you want. And your parents never say it's
time for bed. Or if they do say it's time for
bed, they don't actually follow through on whether you go to bed
or not. So like that's so that's not

(29:47):
ideal, but. There was no.
Yeah, I mean like it was they they just.
And I think it's probably it hasto do with their experiences.
Like my dad's childhood was, I would say, terrible, you know,
like his, like domestic violence, you know, like his, he
never knew his dad. He was, you know, he was in

(30:07):
foster care for maybe a couple, a couple, a couple of his first
five years, you know, so I mean,he had, he was able to pretty
much drop out of school when he was in fifth grade, you know, so
like he had a way Wilder, crazier upbringing than me, so
compared. Like, and they were probably
working their butts off too, right?
To keep the roof over your guys's head and stuff.

(30:28):
You know, I, I don't know exactly.
I mean, you know, they, I don't remember any of them ever having
22 jobs. So, you know, we weren't, you
know, like, like I said, I thinkwhen I was younger, we qualified
for a reduced lunch. So, you know, we, we didn't get
free lunch, you know, so, so like we weren't that poor.
But I actually, I also paid fullprice for lunch because I was so

(30:50):
ashamed of being poor that I, soI was like the kid on reduced
lunch that paid the full price because I didn't want, even
though no other kid is paying attention to how much you pay
for lunch. But like, this is just how you
know, Like this is the way it was.
Isn't it interesting how self aware you can be at that age
and, and have those thoughts andhave that kind of understand the

(31:12):
totality of what's kind of happening and, and exhibit some
kind of a shame over your circumstances that are outside
of your control? Because I was the kid on free
lunch, right? And like my life today looks
like way different than from what I grew up in, right?
And a lot of that's you know, things to, you know, my shitty
circumstances and and I rememberfeeling that way too.

(31:36):
I remember being super ashamed of my circumstances and super
ashamed of my story, super ashamed of my upbringing.
And like today I'll tell you like trailer dude, I would live
in one right now with my circumstances now, why wouldn't
I? Yeah, it's not.
Bad. It's cheap.
Yeah, it's fucking solid housing.
It's just shelter. The world is outside of your

(31:57):
home anyways, right? Why do I don't My my my like?
Cost effectively, it makes so much sense.
Yeah, 100%. And there's plenty of nice
places to live that offered those kinds of living
arrangements, right. They're not all just like broken
down like, you know, the, the quote, you know, trailer park
situation and it's there's, there's nice places to live that

(32:19):
offer trailers. Yeah.
So like that was the difference for us.
There's there's definitely no shortage of trailer parks and in
the region of where I grew up, but we weren't in a trailer
park. We, we had, we had about 5 acres
and then we lived in a trailer. So it was like we were on a dirt
Rd. It was like country area.
And yeah, I mean, it's probably a lot different like inside a

(32:41):
trailer park. Like, like I know some some kids
from high school that lived in trailer parks and it's just a
way different level of chaos within those trailers.
Yeah, I mean, in in that situation where you're you're a
trailer plopped on some some land, I mean, that's that's even
a better situation with a trailer.
It's better for sure. But but even that like, like I

(33:02):
was very much ashamed of that. You know, like we used to, we
used to call them, like most people call call them trailers,
but we called them modular homesbecause that's like the
technical fancy word. So like that's what I would say,
yeah. Because you know, just like what
what what I'm assuming we're probably about the same age.
I'm I'm not sure how old but. Late 30s or?

(33:26):
OK. Yeah.
So like close enough, but like you do like being poor back in
the 90s and 80s was a lot different than being poor today,
you know? Yeah, it.
Was, was now it's almost like a badge of honor, you know, like
now that, you know, you're a, you're a diversity status, you

(33:47):
know, you know, increases whereas, yeah, it just kind of
sucked. You know, like, like, I don't
know how much other people were thinking about it, but like
internally it sucked. Being poor.
You like that. Like you learned that from
watching TV. You learned that from
everything. Like being poor was not.
Was definitely not. Cool.
Yeah, No, it really was. I, I don't know about you, but

(34:08):
my circumstances, I the worst part of my circumstances in my
poverty was in in hindsight, understanding the story, it was
all self induced poverty. Like we weren't, we weren't
doing super stellar, but it was,it was a direct result of the
drug habit from my stepfather. Like 100%, like 100%.

(34:29):
And I had to obviously do some work and get over that because
but in my life, I don't know howit would have shaped it
differently. But yeah, you're right, it was
it was different being poor backthen than it is now.
Now if if you're not poor, it's it's usually contribute some
kind of fucking privilege or something.
And it's like, yeah, it is a privilege that I worked my
fucking ass off to get out of poverty to get here just so I

(34:50):
can be fucking like judged for it.
And in more power to you do it from the fucking sidelines,
right? And I also particularly remember
a lot of a lot of windbreakers in the 80s and 90s, a lot of
when you were moving. That's fun times.
So I mean, just just to clarify,like I like I was probably, I

(35:12):
mean, I definitely wasn't livingin poverty, like, right.
So I mean, we were yeah, we, we were probably like lower on, on
the economic, like definitely below average for like, probably
like the first part of my childhood.
Yeah, yeah. Like I think what they would
identify probably elementary fornow.
Yeah, it's like like elementary school, like we were below
average for sure. Like we definitely weren't in

(35:34):
the poverty zone, you know, and then, and then by the, by the
time I got to high school, you know, my, both my parents had
fairly stable jobs. And by that by then I was
probably a bit above the, you know, the national average or
so, or at least like close to it.
Like, you know, like close to middle class.
But like we still lived in a trailer down down a dirt Rd.

(35:57):
Yeah. OK.
Well, that's cool because it sounds like in your situation,
like do you think that like thathad to do with time also like I
don't know how older your parents were between those those
two instances, right. You're right.
And like we get older, we kind of settle down and we quit
making stupid mistakes and we kind of get a feel for things
and kind of mature a bit and andstabilize.

(36:21):
You think that added? So this is another thing.
Yeah. I mean, definitely like, like,
like my mom made a lot more money being older.
She was pretty good at collecting loans.
So she she made like, she made like, maybe probably twice as
much as my dad mean like my dad was close to probably the he he
wasn't at the minimum wage, but,you know, he's like making
significantly less money. And and so part, yeah, part part

(36:46):
of it is that it, you know, I never really thought of this
before, but yeah, my dad had stopped doing drugs around high
school or junior high. And I kind of like, I know when
it happened because he started drinking and he, I don't
remember him drinking growing up.
And this is like another like, dead giveaway, right?
Like, all of a sudden my dad becomes an alcoholic out of
nowhere. Well, he stopped doing drugs.

(37:08):
Like, yeah, he's, you know, likehe stopped, he stopped doing
drugs and he needed to do something.
And so he started drinking and yeah, it's just like, weird
that, you know, it took me a long time to to piece those
things together. But yeah, so like, that's the
other part of it too. Like drinking an 18 pack of beer
is a lot cheaper than being addicted to meth.

(37:32):
Yeah, yeah. That's.
That's probably partially partially it as well.
That's funny. Did you ever talk to him about
it? Not really, no.
So, so my dad has passed away. He's yeah, thanks.
Never, never specifically talkedto him about it.

(37:53):
He he, you know, he's definitely, he definitely shared
things. But yeah, it's kind of, it's
weird. I guess our relationship just
wasn't really talking about that.
And with him being around, there's no sense of urgency.
Maybe also me being older now and thinking back on childhood,

(38:14):
that was never, I never really thought or reflected much about
my childhood when when he was still around.
So, so yeah, just never really came up, you know, to really,
you know, to specifically ask him questions about it.
Yeah. Did you did your dad ever give
you any kind of like quote fatherly advice?

(38:37):
Did he ever share, partake with?You know, like growing growing
up, growing up. I don't really remember getting
anything significant as an adult.
I, there's there's at least one time I was it was it was my
first love. I was a bit of a late, late
bloomer. Fell in love for the first time.
I was probably like 27 range andit was a very short

(39:00):
relationship. I had a, a pretty tough, tough
recovery from it. And and like my dad did give me
some advice, you know, then and it was, you know, and I kind of
see that there was some wisdom there where I never, I never

(39:21):
thought of my dad as being a smart or wise guys.
He he was, he was always kind oflike what you mentioned, like he
was always a weird dude. I always knew my like, really
funny guy, really funny, really good socially.
Like everyone liked my dad, but I always knew that he was weird.
And so I never really thought ofhim as anything but weird until
later on. And so, yeah.

(39:41):
So like he definitely gave me some, some advice about like
relationships. He, you know, he like, oh, he,
he opened up and told me about some of his relationships.
And I was like the first time I was like, oh, OK.
Yeah, yeah. I guess my dad has learned some
things in life and then later onin life too.
One time I was maybe having likesome existential dread and I
was, wasn't quite I, I guess I was looking for a specific

(40:08):
meaning in life, like something,you know, like not necessarily a
grand meaning, but just more like a personal meaning.
And so I had asked my dad about that, and he gave me a response
that was almost laughable. The first time he's like, oh, I
sometimes I just think the meaning of life is mowing lawns
or something like that. And like he and, and it seemed,
it seemed like just my dad beingweird.
But now, you know, you look backand like, I still have, I still

(40:31):
have his e-mail and I read it every once in a while.
And it's like, yeah, no, that's,you know, mowing lawns can be a
pretty good, a pretty good purpose.
Like physically active, you know, it's a way for you to to
just be. It's not bad.
Yeah. But yeah.
So like little things like that,what have been when I was older.
Yeah, immediately when when you said that, my head goes to
presence, right. It's being present and finding

(40:54):
meaning in the present. And it remind me of one of my
buddies who, you know, he moved across the country, got a nice
job, bought a nice house with his family and they're doing
pretty well right now. And he was sharing once about
how every Sunday, I believe he gets up and mows the lawn and

(41:14):
how it's a thing now because allof his neighbors do it.
And so now he doesn't. And I'm like, oh, isn't that
funny how that's brought some kind of meaning to your life?
Like that's what you have to look forward to.
And it's like, so yeah, I mean, to me when when I hear something
like that, it's like, yeah, it could be right.
It's I don't know. The meaning of life is I think
it really is a personal one. And, and I think that we all

(41:36):
struggle with it for sure, and is part of the reason why I do
this thing. And I talk to people like you
and, and any other dude who willtalk to me, right?
Because there's, we, we all struggle with very similar
things and we all go through very similar circumstances and
scenarios and situations. And if, if for me, I, it clicks

(42:03):
when I realize, oh, I'm not alone.
It's not this big cosmic fuckingjoke on me.
It's, it's a big cosmic joke on everybody.
And when we talk about it, it removes the power from the fears
or the anxieties. And, and there's people who have
traversed these roads and have gotten through it and gotten and

(42:27):
became better for it. And there's people who, you
know, don't look forward to being a father and that's OK.
And they can still be good fathers or not.
And there's people who can, you know, there's just different
strokes for different folks, as they say, right?
And I think that that's important to kind of hear and
listen to and, and be like, oh, that's real, That's real.

(42:49):
I'm not alone, that's real. There's other people like me out
there and they're doing just fine.
I don't have to feel a certain way and feel less than or feel
discouraged or whatnot, or feel out of place, right?
Like there's no place for me in this world.
There's a place for everybody inthis world, right?
And I think me like really life really is is it is a journey of

(43:10):
one like, but you're forced to kind of experience it with
everybody. What do you think?
Yeah, OK. Go ahead.
Good. There's, there's, there's that
line from Ecclesiastes and it's,there's nothing new under the
sun, even though like technologychanges, you know, now Internet,

(43:31):
all that stuff. Yeah, there's, you know, you can
kind of boil it down. There's nothing, you know, our
like our problems aren't that much different than some guy
living in, in, you know, the Middle East 2500 years ago.
Yeah, no, I say that all the time.
Like, you know, you go back, sayI have buddies.

(43:52):
So we'll say like, oh, you know,life's different.
You can't buy or whatever a job can get you this or blah, blah.
And it's like, but like the problems are the same, right?
You can't tell me that in in thefucking 30s, you know, because
the arguments like, oh, back in the day, people used to have a
job and support a whole family and buy a house and have the
American dream and all this. It's like, then explain the
fucking bread lines during the Great Depression, like explain

(44:17):
why people were like, do you know what I'm saying?
Like people are struggling with the same issues because they're
not really like issues of thingsor issues of like, you know,
internal stuff. I mean, yes, they, they bleed
into the external and like the way that we connect with the
world and all of that. Yes, I, I understand that.
But fundamentally speaking, I, I, I, I tend to view it as a as

(44:40):
an internal problem with like the way that we communicate with
ourselves in the world and how we experience that.
Yeah, I would, I would agree. I think you, you can kind of
boil it down to, I think it's Maslow's basic needs, but it's
like, yeah, you need like, yeah,shelter.
And then once you get past those, now you're just talking

(45:01):
about like psychological stuff that it doesn't really matter
what you have. You still have the same like
psychological needs. And there's there, there's
different studies, but they all come to different conclusions.
But it seems like after some point, everyone like money
doesn't really help you much, you know, and like the papers,
the papers come up with different numbers as far as how

(45:23):
much that is. But yeah, like money, money's
not going to solve the psychological needs.
Right at some point it's just all quality problems and
manufactured nonsense that we wewe torture ourselves with.
What what how did you get into the can we quickly just do like
runner and Blogger situation? How did you what?

(45:45):
How did those come about? So I started running when I was
a junior in high school. More like accidentally went into
it I guess. Or ran it kind of randomly.
One of my best friends in high school join the team.
I'm not exactly sure why or how he ended up joining, but I just
kind of joined because they needed runners and he and he had

(46:05):
done it. And I love sports.
Growing up I wasn't like, I was decent at sports, but our our
school was probably 12 or 1300 students.
I wasn't good enough to really play most of the sports for at
that level. So yes, sports was like my
thing, but I wasn't that good atat sports.

(46:25):
So running was something that they needed runners and my
friend was doing it. And so I ended up doing it.
I ended up really liking it. You know, I love the workouts,
the working hard. I wasn't, I wasn't very good,
especially during high school. I got better as I was older, you
know, but just with time, you know, running is one of those

(46:48):
things, the more you run, the better you get.
And yeah, so it just kind of stuck with me.
I've been, you know, I ran for most of my adulthood.
I had a bit of a bit of a stretch when I started teaching
where exercise became less important to me.
And I had some issues with getting injured for a few years
because I kind of got out of shape and then kept trying to

(47:08):
get back into shape faster than my body could handle.
But yeah, now, now I'm kind kindof back.
I've been running fairly consistently the last two years.
And it's just one of those things I kind of missed what it
was from my young adulthood, younger, younger adulthood.
And it's all, it's almost like something spiritual where I just

(47:32):
like the, you know, I physicallylike running.
I like the way I feel when I'm running.
Yeah. It just seems like a very
mentally and physically healthy thing for me.
And I'm at that phase in life where it's just do things I
like. So I like running.
So I'm going to run. Very cool.
So are you spiritual or religious?

(47:53):
Do you have a religious practice?
Do you have a spiritual practiceoutside of running?
No, I I would for most of my yeah, for most of my adulthood,
I would probably say atheist. Now I might be converting to
agnostic, but I like I, I can, Ican see there being a God.

(48:14):
I don't think it's necessary. So I definitely don't think it's
a necessary condition to have a universe that has living beings
in it. And so that makes me want to say
atheist. And then but I can envision a
God. I have no idea what probability
to put on it because a God wouldbe outside of time and space.
And I have 0 information outsideof the time and space of this,

(48:38):
of this world. So I mean, like, I really don't
know how possible it is, but like, I just can't imagine it
being anything like any religiontoday.
So the fact that I'm, I'm fairlyconfident that all religions are
factually not true. And so that kind of makes me
want to just say atheist as well.

(49:00):
So like somewhere like somewherelike some somewhere probably
like probably agnostic is probably a little better
accurate description, but but I kind of identify with with just
saying atheist for the for the reason reasons I shared.
Fair enough. What did you?
What did you hope to accomplish with the blogging?
What was your goal there? I'm not sure when I first

(49:23):
started it. It's probably been like 10 or 15
years. I, you know, you know, you know,
let me take that back. I, I backpacked around Europe
after college for a summer and Ikept A blog while I was there.
You know, I probably like every two or three days I made a blog
post and they were very much like, this is what I did on this

(49:45):
day, you know, So very much it'slike a summary of like two or
three days. And then, so that was my first
one and then I kept another. I kept A blog when I went to the
Peace Corps and it was a lot more reflective and thoughtful.
And so I think, I think I probably just wanted a place to,

(50:07):
to think and write about ideas. And so I probably just randomly
started 1/1 day because I wantedto write something and it was a
place kind of, yeah, it's almost, it's almost like a diary
for me. Not, not that some of my posts

(50:27):
are just reading responses like literally like I'm reading this
and I make, you know, make a little response about it.
Some some of them are just deeper reflections on
conversations I've had with friends.
Sometimes I'll yeah. So it's kind of it's it's
somewhat random and I don't knowthe exact, yeah, maybe just like

(50:48):
to keep a record of thoughts I guess would to specific
specifically answer your question.
OK. Just something to reflect back
on and kind of see where you're at, like a thermometer of life.
Kind of. I, I mean, I think it's for
whatever reason, I do like goingback and reading stuff that I

(51:09):
wrote. I, I bought a journal when I was
maybe 18 or 19 when I was in themilitary and I wanted to keep a
journal. And then my idea was maybe I
would write a book someday like that.
Like this is an idea I had when I was 18 or 19.
I still have the journal. I only wrote in it like 3 or 4
times. Oh yeah, yeah.

(51:31):
So I, I took the same journal with me when I joined the Peace
Corps and I wrote in, maybe I end up writing in maybe 2/3 of
the book while I, while I was doing that service.
But I had a blog and the blog was eventually I had an Internet

(51:52):
or we, we had, we had access to the Internet my second year.
And so I think what happens, I just started writing online
more. Gotcha.
So in on a computer more so, yeah, it, it was one of those
things like I, I was right when I first, when I first left for
the Peace Corps, I didn't take acomputer with me like I didn't

(52:14):
want to. I wanted to be like
disconnected. I very much wanted to be a lot
more like outdoorsy and, and, and live and live the cliche
third world type type aspect. And so I didn't even take, take
a computer. So that's probably when I wrote
in most of the 2/3 of the of thejournal.

(52:36):
And then eventually, you know, boredom kind of caught up and I,
I had my parents buy and send mea laptop.
And so that's, I probably started writing a lot more
digitally from that point. And so yeah, the journals still
not full. Yeah, it sounds like the the
Peace Corps was pretty impactfulfor you too, right?
What And that's it's got to be an awesome experience.

(52:57):
I've known other people who've done it and they and I've never
heard somebody who said I've never met somebody who said the
Peace Corps is the worst fuckingthing I've ever done.
They all loved it. What?
What drove you to that? There's, there's definitely some
out there, probably more likely to be women that had some type
of like physical assault or, or you know what not, but, but no,

(53:19):
I mean, for the most part, like most, yeah, most, most Peace
Corps volunteers, it's, it's a, it's a lot different than the
military. It's, it's a lot more enjoyable.
It's a little, definitely a lot more meaningful.
I so I was indoctrination is notthe right word, but, but I was
definitely influenced by my college professors a lot.

(53:40):
And so I went pretty far left while through my college
experience the first time. So I was, I was, yeah, like I
was like your typical college kid, fairly far left.
And so I was anti America at thetime.
You know, I was very much capitalism.
I, you know, I wanted to save the world.

(54:02):
You know, I, I was all about social change.
I was already kind of leaning towards getting into education
for that same reason. I wanted to help people and I
wanted to change people and I wanted to be a positive
influence and all that. And similarly with with joining
the military, I just, I just wasn't ready to commit to
something. And so it was something I could
do. Keeps my resume strong and gives

(54:23):
me another two years to have funbefore I have to figure out like
what what I'm going to do next. And so I taught in the Peace
Corps and that kind of solidified teaching for me at
the time. And I did, I started reading a
lot in the Peace Corps. Like, like I said, boredom was
was a definite thing. So I read a lot.
I started, I went back and read most of the books I was supposed

(54:45):
to read in high school and I hada yeah, I guess I got a
transform formative experiences just like with reading, just
just. And so I wanted to, I wanted to
teach literature. And so that's kind of what, what
I did. So yeah, but but, but to answer

(55:06):
the, the question, pretty much Iwas, I was just pretty far left.
I on, on the, on the politics side and I wanted to change the
world, but I also selfishly wanted to travel and experience
a new culture, a new language, you know, like I wanted to find

(55:27):
myself and all that stuff. So like so I I was on a selfish
journey hoping to do good along the way.
Fair enough. In your opinion, what is the
one? What is the most important
contribution a man can make to the world before he dies?

(55:50):
I don't think there's an I, I, so I suspect that you would
agree with this part, but I think everyone has to figure
that out for themselves. So I, I think, I think whatever,
whatever, whatever answers someone, I don't, I'm not sure
I, I would say for right now, I feel like my duty is to my

(56:11):
family. I don't contribution to the
world. I don't feel responsible for
making any contributions to the world anymore, I think.
I think if you would have asked me about 10 years ago when I was
first started teaching or beforewhen I was wanting to pursue
teaching, I would have probably said something like to make the

(56:33):
world a better place. But but to be honest, I don't.
I don't feel any of that. I think, I don't think like, I
don't think there's a real answer there.
And I think if someone comes up with an answer like that's fine.
I think if you come up with something crazy like like to
kill all Jewish people, then you're probably off the rocker
though. Yeah, that you'd probably be way

(56:55):
out of line on that if if that was your mentality.
You probably yeah, that's that'sfucking wild.
But it's your point about like maybe taking care of your
family. You're you're focused on your
family. Would you, would you say even
from like a less idealistic, youknow, to end world hunger or

(57:16):
whatever, right, like that Miss American pageant kind of answer.
Do you take care of your family?Would that not relieve society
as a whole from the duty to haveto take care of your family?
Would that not be a sufficient contribution to say, your
immediate social circle as far as like, you know, your city,

(57:36):
state or whatever is that? Yeah.
I mean, yeah, completely agree. But like the best contribution
or or was was that your originalword or like the greatest or
like whatever the. Most important.
I think like most important, OK,so like it's like that's like
that qualifier. Most important is the is the
aspect that I'm kind of pushing back against.

(57:56):
Gotcha. Yeah, I mean, I have plenty of
answers to for this, right? But it's, I think one of the
most important things a person can do is take care of
themselves. And and that's it.
Like if I just take care of myself, no one has to take care
of me. And that's that's enough.
I think that's enough. Because if everyone does that,

(58:17):
that's that's that's a massive relief on, on all of our
resources. And it doesn't have to be super
complicated or idealistic, right?
It could be, it could be uncomplicated and selfish,
right? I'm going to take care of me.
And, and I think that most people don't see things that
way. And you know it is what it is.

(58:37):
And I mean, and logically, practically, you can't really do
anything else if you're not taking care of yourself.
So it's kind of like the starting point for anything.
Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of people out there who you know,
that I meet every day who don't.They're not self-sufficient.
They don't have a job, even if it's a shitty job, they don't,

(58:59):
they can't. They don't know where they're
going to get their next meal. They don't know.
They don't have a home. They're homeless.
They, you know, asking for couches to sleep on or look for,
you know, a semi safe space out in the streets.
Yeah, dude, being self-sufficient is kind of is.
Shit's important. Do you have any advice that you

(59:22):
can give a young man just starting off on this journey?
Maybe coming out of high school,going into adulthood?
Maybe something you wish someonewould have told you when you
were a young man. Oh, I'm tempted to say I
probably wouldn't have listened to myself as a young man.
Which which makes me. I guess I'm a little hesitant on

(59:43):
advice as well because I don't think blanket statements to
would be all that useful. I mean, this is a boring answer.
I'm sorry. But yeah, like without knowing
anything specific about the young man, I don't feel like I
could say something cliche in the young man would see right
through it. Maybe something that that the

(01:00:07):
young man might listen to you. I don't know.
I mean, yeah, like, yeah, man, I'm really not sure.
Especially like in this day, in this day and age.
Like give me OK, so, so like maybe like a High School
graduate, someone like like the most average male American

(01:00:27):
possible. Sure.
Yeah. I I would maybe advise against
the extremes. Maybe, you know, a moderate see
maybe something that could kind of get them to value learning
and and knowledge. But I don't know, doesn't that

(01:00:49):
just seem like like such cliche answers?
Yeah, well, I mean it technically, it's all, it's all
bullshit. Do you know what I mean?
It's. Yeah, I mean, that's like that's
the problem, right? Yeah, right.
Like no one, no one goes and reads like, you know, I I don't
know, fucking, you know, Ego is the Enemy, which is a fantastic
book by Ryan Holiday. And and it's like immediately,

(01:01:10):
like, all right, I'm fucking I'mdone.
I've made it right. No one goes and reads the Bible
and it's like I'm cured. I'm done.
No one goes to read like it's all it's all just like snippets
of things that help us make better decisions or maybe
influence the way that we view the world or change our decision
making. I promise that anybody who I
asked this question to, maybe one person and so many might,

(01:01:34):
you know, take it literal or whatever, but I don't, I don't
think that anyone's going to listen to me like, oh, OK,
that's it. That was what I needed, right?
That my whole life has changed. But it might change the
trajectory of somebody for a moment and maybe kind of help
them pull their head out of their ass or maybe seek a path
they didn't intend to seek. And, and I think that there's

(01:01:54):
this grandiose kind of like, oh,people are listening to this and
I'm going to affect people's lives and it happens.
And but it's not, I don't, I don't, I don't ask the question
to find a cure. I asked the question to to maybe
help someone Orient to their thinking a little bit different.
Well, if I could talk to myself,I think I would talk about

(01:02:17):
running. I think that would be the way I
might be able to reach myself orexercise in general.
I think. I think I would.
I think I would, you know, or you know what, let me start
over. If I could talk to myself, I
would try and get myself to pursue mathematics.
Math was something that I was naturally pretty good at without

(01:02:38):
ever caring or trying or wantingto be.
And I would maybe try and push myself.
I, I would maybe tell, tell myself something along the lines
of like I like, I would try and whip up the quickest.
Like math is cool. This is what you can do with
math and you're really good at math and you might be able to do
something more with math. Like like I would give myself

(01:03:01):
that pitch and because no one else ever did.
I think if someone, if, if someone that, let's say my, you
know, my running coach was also my math teacher.
I, I, maybe he told me somethingabout math and I just completely
blew it off. And I don't remember, but I
don't remember him ever saying anything about math.
And that's like one, one of those things I, you know, I'm,

(01:03:24):
I'm someone that that's interested in physics and
economics. And so like those are two things
where I could have, I, I think Ireally could have liked to
pursue either of those majors and professions.
And yeah, when I realized that Iliked those topics, it was kind
of too late. I mean, it wasn't literally too
late, but practically for my ass, you know, point, I'm not

(01:03:48):
going to go back and and start over.
I'm just not that interested in in those topics.
But when I was younger, those those are two things where I
probably could have, you know, Iprobably could have pursued them
and who knows, like it it it would have been nice to have
tried type of thing. Right, gotcha.
So more math at. Least like, like, no, like, hey,

(01:04:11):
you're, you're really good at math.
You should check it out. Like try it out.
Is there anything during this interview that I didn't ask you
that you wish I did ask you? No man, I think this was good.
I actually I actually am runningout of time.
Yeah, I know, I know. We have a heart out in 3
minutes. So thank you James so much for

(01:04:32):
taking the time to speak with metoday on such short notice.
And best luck to you and your new baby coming soon.
I wish you all the best on your journey, Sir.
OK, cool. Thanks a lot.
Appreciate it.

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James – Atheist, Blogger, Dad, and Podcaster

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}James – Atheist, Blogger, Dad, and Podcaster