William – Art and Drugs: Addiction, Clinical Depression, SI, and the Willingness to Preserve - STAG

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
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(00:24):
Thanks for your support. Now here's the interview.
Yeah, tell me. Yeah.
So the four definitions of masculinity are the hegemonic.
And the definition for that would be the dominant socially

(00:44):
idea, idealized form of masculinity in a given culture
characterized by traits like aggression, emotional
suppression, and heterosexuality, which serves to
uphold men's power and privilegeover women and other subordinate
forms of masculinity. And then subordinate would be

(01:19):
definition for that is forms of masculinity that are devalued,
marginalized and positioned lower then hegemonic masculinity
in a social hierarchy. So.
A cook. Yeah, 100% cook.

(01:39):
Yeah, Forms of masculinity that are devalued.
So, you know, probably, probably, you know, toxic
masculinity for, for example, would probably be a form of
subordinate masculinity that would be devalued because people
don't like to, you know, value that complacent and marginal

(02:06):
complacent is. That's where we're at bro.
Most people are there, most deeds are there. 100% just.
Fucking observers bro. Bleach your seeds.
Bleach your seat. Masculinity, bro.
Yeah, it's a passive adherence to non challenging acceptance.
Yeah, hegemonic masculinity. The first one, the dominant

(02:28):
stereotype form of male behaviour that allows men to
benefit from the social system without actively participating
in oppression. Yeah, Free rider.
Yeah, Free rider. Masculinity, Yeah.
Yeah, the let me just hop on your back and and go across the
finish line. Yeah.
Basically, yeah. And and the Dick writing and and

(02:51):
marginal masculinity would be, let's see, forms of male
identity and expression that aredevalued, oppressed or excluded
because they do not conform to the standards of hegemonic
masculinity, the dominant societal idea of male behavior
and roles. So this is like, you know, I

(03:16):
feel like I'm would be in a lot of like a lot of my traits would
be marginalized masculinity justbecause it's not, it doesn't not
like so and so conform to the like standard of like what a
male should be, you know? Yeah, but wouldn't that be like

(03:38):
also an alpha trait though? That's I think that that's why I
get a lot of like confusion about the the traditional alpha
machismo like existence of masculinity, right?
Because it's just like it's justlike excessively violent and
inconsiderate, right? Like.
And. And it's like, OK, so like
you're, you're kind of like a Machiavellian and like marching

(04:01):
forward kind of to the beat of your own drum.
But like you, you do that, right?
But you, you're not, I don't, I don't think that you're like a
inconsiderate person, so to speak, right?
But like you kind of just March to your own drum.
And if like that is alpha, then what?
What does it matter whether thatflavors, you know, the what,
what is traditionally seen as like, you know, maybe like the
image of the cowboy or something, right?

(04:22):
Or, or like the fucking patriot or whatever.
And it also is that the punk rocker bro, like, you know what
I mean? Like that?
That's an alpha like flag too. Like they're all planting these
alpha flags. They just look different.
Yeah. I think it's, I think the
oppressive part of that we're we're we're talking about like

(04:42):
the more dominant traits. That's not like that's like what
a lot of like, in my opinion, society wants men to be is like,
do not cry, be strong, have these dominant personalities
when you know what I mean, success, money, you know, all
all those things that are like push on to US and and formed as

(05:05):
masculine. But then you see women doing all
those same traits as well. So is that really in my eyes,
like masculinity or is that something different?
You know, I think like collectively in that area be

(05:29):
being an alpha is being someone who can nurture and protect in
my eyes. You know, you think about
animals, you know, and also likealpha like emotionally as well

(05:49):
because you can have all those things and be masculine in all
those ways. But like if your emotional
regulation and your emotional intelligence is low?
Yeah. None of those things matter.
Right, because you're just checking the fucking perimeter
like a dog all the time, bro. That's, that's, that's fucking
traditional alpha, right? Just perimeter checking bro all
day. Right, and so I think you bring

(06:16):
up a really good point about thealpha masculinity and in like
emotional intelligence, because that's that's one thing that I
highlighted a lot in this and this show, just generally
speaking is, is the emotional adolescence, right and the lack
of emotional intelligence and we're even just spatial
proximity awareness of oneself, right?
Like like, where the fuck are you in the world?

(06:37):
Most people don't know their head from their ass, right?
And and then like these people are like trying to like, like
exist in the world as some kind of authority or something.
And it's like how, how you don'teven know where you're at.
And so I appreciate that you even highlight like, whoa.
It's also, it's also true to saythat you must be like, you know,
quote alpha in, in the way that you engage your emotional self

(07:03):
into the world, right? And what is that?
What is that? But other than being your higher
self, right? Just generally speaking, right?
Yeah, I mean being your authentic self in a way of like
and I I've I've seen, I've looked up to like the the men in
my life that I've looked up to the most haven't been the

(07:26):
traditional like, you know, manly types, right.
Right, like time out. All right, William, before a few
minutes ago, we were talking about a number of things which
I'm just going to end up plugging in here at some point.
But you started saying a number of the men that you looked up to

(07:51):
in your life were not traditional.
And and I want you to clarify what you meant by that as far as
not being the traditional masculine type or what you were,
where you're going with that. And then I want to start to
pivot into the way that we always start this interviews,
which is like, who are you? Where are you coming from?

(08:12):
How did you end up? Like if you're on a map, you're
looking yourself at a map like you are here.
Where is that? How did we get here?
Go for it. Cool.
So that last note we were speaking about, obviously, you
know, my family and a lot of thepeople in my family, I've, I've

(08:32):
had like a number of role modelsto look up to in negative ways
and also positive ways, right? And in in reference to like, you
know, the one person in my life who've I've kind of shaped my
life around was my grandfather. And he, you know, was a

(09:02):
completely emotionally like available but silent person in
the way of to describe that more.
You know, I have always respected a man who can use his
words selectively to have meaning and power and to use his

(09:25):
body language selectively to have meaning and power and to
guide and to foster in an environment where you know, the
people with that. Like, you know, you're teaching
in specific elders to the youth,teaching like positive coping

(09:47):
strategies #1 or positive like interaction with other humans
and in society and in being witheach other.
I've had a lot of examples in mylife.
You know, I've had the tough love cold shoulder from my
father, who's not very emotional, who's not very super

(10:08):
loving. He's more, you know, thanks for
the Hallmark card. You know, when when emotional
things are said and you know, wewe bond more on like sports and
and dude things per SE, right. And then my grandfather, who was

(10:32):
a musician and he, you know, theloudest things he would ever say
would be would be a silence. And, you know, in terms of what
kind of man I want to be in the world is, I don't want my my
words to harm others. And I want to lead in a way

(10:55):
where people willingly want to, you know, be in my presence.
I think that means a lot to me. And real masculinity and real,
you know, fostering that energy in a divine way is more so,
like, you know, what kind of, like person do you really want

(11:19):
to be? What kind of memories do you
really want to create? What kind of environment around
you? Because, I mean, we're the, you
know, critics of our environment.
Everything around us is traded, but.
What do you think about because you mentioned your grandpa and
your grandfather and, and your dad and how different they were

(11:41):
and, and not only in, in the waythat they may be like we're
leaders and maybe the way that they were fathers, maybe the way
that they were mentors and, and the what is it specifically?
I guess let's let's go with all three, right?
Like who? Who between the two men that had
the most influence on you? Is these two men correct?

(12:03):
Yeah, and and my stepfather. And stepfather, OK, so would you
say that maybe between 3 all three of them growing up or you
got specific parts of like what it meant to be like male or man
or or what it is to be masculine?
Do they all offer different parts to complete a whole per

(12:24):
SE? Like was one more of a father
and more one more of a mentor than or one was more of like a
buddy? Like how did that work out?
Like, which one did you view as like, you know, the pinnacle of,
like, you know, manhood or and whatnot?
Yeah, really, if I was going to be fully honest, like my
grandfather, I I see him as my father.

(12:46):
I see my father as more of my buddy, my friend and my
stepfather is kind of like an impressor, but not in like a but
more of like my young early likemolding in the way that it like,
you know, his type of like, you know, reprimandment would be

(13:11):
physical and stuff like that. You know, so that's kind of like
as a young kid, like your, your brain and your mind and your,
your heart is so shaped by your environment around you that, you
know, a lot of the traits that you acquire are from that time.
A lot of like the thought process that you acquire are

(13:32):
from that time. And a lot of the coping
strategies you get are from thattime.
And also like trauma passes downtrauma, right?
The body keeps the score. And, you know, you learn, you
learn a lot of the, you know, traits of fatherhood, of
masculinity by the male role models in your life.
And, and I'm grateful for all three of them.

(13:57):
You know, I think the most important part about that is
that like, I don't look at, you know, each one of those as like
something that was negative for my transformation, for my
creation of me becoming the person I am today.
I think they were all necessary for my development.

(14:18):
And I mean, like you've always said, you're always where you
need to be when you need to be there.
And you know, experiencing everything I have experienced
has showed me what I want to be and what I don't want to be and
what I am regardless of what I want or not sometimes.

(14:39):
Yeah, I I would paint you, you know, it's interesting that you
kind of led with that, that thatstatement before we got started
was about like, you know, the men that they were not
traditional, they're all different kind of thing.
And because when I think about you, you're very much an
eccentric human being. You're you're kind of an artist.

(14:59):
You're out there and you're different.
You you go Instagram. But I don't, I've never really
viewed you as a somebody who I would say like that's, that's a
feminine dude, right? I, I can acknowledge that maybe
you have some, a very strong, empathetic, supportive side of
you, but I wouldn't call it feminine.

(15:20):
Or if you, if you can, if you want, that's fine too.
But I wouldn't, I wouldn't traditionally align that with
what people might think is like,like something that would be
like a weakness or something. And I'd, I'd like, you know, cut
territory, right? Like that's not what I'm talking
about. And so, but I've always viewed
you as somebody who kind of likewas like a dude, you know, like,

(15:45):
like, and so my question is like, do you, did you ever, did
you ever struggle with your identity as a man, like
masculinity and like, you know, what it meant to be a man and
how, how a man carried himself? And maybe maybe like with, you
know, the three different men that raised you or, or you were
in proximity to or maybe other other mentors or friends or

(16:06):
anything like did you ever struggle with that like an
identity as far as a male goes? Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, and kind of like to touch on something you just
said, what I really believe, Like my feminine parts of me, I
feel like are some of the most like masculine parts of me, if

(16:27):
that makes sense in any way. Yeah.
To be fair, some of my, my like metal heroes, like the dudes
that I care about the most are, you know, my, one of my
grandfathers. He, he guy was very sensitive.
He, he was very hard. He was very, he was very strict.
He's very, very fair, but he wasvery sensitive to and then like

(16:48):
carrying an understanding also. And I mean like someone like
Marcus Aurelius, right? Like we, we take away his
writings, we don't take away hisfucking like, I mean, we, we, we
acknowledge the brutal nature oflike how he acted right?
And like, but like, it's fascinating.
Go ahead. My bad.
No, absolutely. In response to your question,
struggling like with my identity, absolutely,

(17:09):
absolutely. I mean, my first struggle with
my, my role and my like purpose and my, my, my place in life
was, you know, as a kid, like both my parents were addicts,
right? And I had this like very, very
deep rooted low self esteem because I have like 1 memory of

(17:34):
my biological father from childhood up until about 13 or
14 years old when I met him. But I remember hearing that from
those around me and my family, etcetera, that he wanted to be a
drug, drug addict more than he wanted to be my father, right?

(17:55):
And in turn, that made me view myself, my identity as we're
like almost worthless. You know, I thankfully, I had
like a good family around me, mygrandparents.
My mom was struggling a lot of the time, but like, I had my
grandparents as my structure. But, you know, I really
struggled with, you know, that consistent role in my life.

(18:23):
And I was adopted when I was sixyears old by my mom's new
husband. He adopted me to be his legal
father, his legal son for. And that, you know, lasted for
about 6 or 7 years until I finally moved in with my
grandparents. But my identity was ravaged from
that. It was, it was torn, you know,

(18:44):
because I, I didn't know where to turn to and moving roles from
like, you know, Daryl's son to George's son to Jeffrey's, you
know, grandson. It was a lot of change in those
times. And you know, I didn't have like

(19:08):
that super firm basis of like who I am and who I was raised
by, right? I was kind of passed up, passed
around by the males of my family.
And I'm really grateful for all them because like, even when I
was around like 12 or 13 before I met my father, my grandfather

(19:28):
sent me to New York with my uncle Jason, who I, I really
didn't have any memory. But that man was like one of
the, you know, biggest inspirations to like the kind of
person I want to be, the kind ofdad I want to be.
He's a father of three girls. And, you know, he kind of was
like, you know, you're the boy that I always wanted, right?

(19:52):
And, you know, learning from himand seeing, you know, his
struggles and what he went through in his life and the kind
of father he was and the kind oflike role model he was willing
to be to me, you know, really helped me with my identity.

(20:13):
He helped me find like the musicI was interested in.
He helped me find, you know, artthat I was interested in and
help me find passion and. And those are the things that
are like most important to me, you know, and when I look define
like a man's success, right, Because I can't really like

(20:36):
speak on anything else then thenthat because that's my reality,
right? Because I am male.
You know what, what I just, you know, define a success in that,
in that way with identity is, you know, finding those passions

(20:59):
and finding those like goals inside of you and accomplishing
them no matter what the outcome is.
You know, like when I was younger, I used to look up to my
grandfather and him as a musician.
I really had only one goal in life was to write a record that
was entirely me, that wasn't like infused by all the outside

(21:21):
sources and by what was popular at the time, you know, and
during COVID is when I finished that record.
And like, I've, I've never felt more successful in my life, more
purpose driven, more just full, Like my cup was full.

(21:41):
And it wasn't because I even released the music and it still
hasn't been released. It was because I set out to do
like what I wanted to do and theresults are like, you know, up
to the universe with everything,you know.
But my, the caretaker part of me, the protector has always

(22:05):
been a big identity in me. Having a little sister and, you
know, having to step up for my family when my grandfather died
and be the man of the house is really like the things that have
put me and catapulted me into the person I am today.
So what was it about, Jason, that that kind of shifted you

(22:27):
specifically into a kind of likelike what was the light bulb
that went off with with visitingyour uncle?
Well, how? Was that, how was that different
from like maybe your grandpa? So at the time, like, you know,
my, my grandpa knew exactly whatI needed, which was like a new
experience, right? I needed to be out of my comfort

(22:53):
zone. And that was really
uncomfortable actually, you knowwhat I mean?
But like out of like my traditional like home space and
like where I was and at the timeI I was dealing a lot with like
suicidal ideation. How old were you I?
Was about 12 or 13 and was around.

(23:14):
The time you moved to your grandparents, right?
Yeah, yeah. And my mom was in prison at the
time and me and my stepfather, you know, that relationship was
just really rough. There's a lot of like physical
violence and, you know, a lot oflike fist fighting.

(23:35):
And I mean, I was a 12 year old kid, you know, and I was
defending myself and I was, you know, on the attacking side as
well because of like the anger Ifelt inside.
And my, my uncle Jason, you know, I went out to New York and
like, me and him, like really connected on music.

(23:57):
And like my, my family's always been about music.
But like, the thing about Jason was, was like, he showed me that
like, you know, life could be different than what it currently
was. That there was like this entire
world out there that I hadn't like been exposed to because I
was so trapped. My, my own thoughts, my own
circumstances, you know, and it was really like our, like his

(24:22):
love for the band Tool. Like we've talked about this so
many times that like really opened me up to, you know, the
possibilities of like, things being different.
Right. And experiencing like summer out
there was like, you know, I was taken from like a really

(24:42):
volatile like home living situation into like a loving
home where like none of that washappening.
You know, I wasn't like in fightor flight mode constantly.
I had a chance to like be a kid,you know, And, you know, he took

(25:05):
me to concerts and he took me tolike art museums and he just
like, he just like loved the fuck out of me.
And he just hugged me and just was there for me.
And, you know, that changed my life, man.
It really did. Yeah, and I imagine, I mean,

(25:28):
with your home life being so crazy, Mom's in jail or in
prison, Stepfather's a nightmare.
Real dad's still using at this point, I believe.
Right. He was actually, he's actually
sober at that time. But I, I had, I hadn't met him
yet. Yeah.
Oh, because you didn't meet him until, like, 14 or so, Right.
Yeah. OK.

(25:49):
And then and then you go out there and grandparents send you
off and you're hanging out. It's like, it's like, is it fair
to say that you kind of got likea peek behind the curtain?
You're like, oh, there's anotherway to live.
Absolutely. And it was just like a breath of
fresh air. Yeah.
And you're just like, holy shit,dude.
Like what? What is?

(26:10):
Did you feel weird like when somebody like is showing you
kindness and and like love and compassion and and caring and
and sharing and. I felt like or.
Did you welcome it or were you resistant to it or?
Well, it was definitely awkward in the way of like, you know, it

(26:33):
wasn't what I was, like, used toat that moment.
But I mean, I always had that grandparents and I want to like
firmly like put that. Yeah, in retrospect, because
like without my grandparents, I think my outcome and my, you
know, my life today would be a lot different.
And safe to say, like even with like my grandparents love and my

(26:56):
the people in my family that arelike really have been there for
me. Like I've still turned out
pretty fucked up some some of these times.
You. Know, and, and, and that's all
on me #1 but like, regardless oflike your upbringing, you know,
we all have the choice to like make our own decisions and be
the people that we want to be, you know, right, so.

(27:18):
Was your was your home life? Do you remember like even before
going out to meet your uncle in New York or whatever, Like do
you remember a time when life just wasn't fucking crazy or, or
was it always just crazy for youas far as you can remember,
dude, Like do you have a happy memory when you were a kid Like.
Yeah, I mean, I have nothing. I mean, baseball was fun.

(27:43):
Like skateboard, like baseball. Yeah.
Yeah. And like skateboarding.
And like I had, I had a best friend named David that I met
when I was like our moms met when I was like 1 years old and
he like, you know, 2 like 3 or something.
And before I, when I grew up in Oxnard, like he was like my best
friend and I would be able to like escape my house.

(28:05):
Like, and I'd go over to his house every, almost every we can
and stay for, you know, 3-4 daysat a time.
And we would skateboard and like, that was like my like,
peaceful area because like, I wasn't with my parents.
And you're an adventurer. Yeah, like I was, you know, and
like. When you were with Jason, you

(28:26):
were on an adventure. Exactly.
And like during the summertime, I'd go stay at David's house for
like weeks at a time. And you know, like, but like a
lot of my childhood is like, it's, it's a mix, you know, just
like life is today. You know, I, I really, you know,

(28:47):
personally for me to like, discredit, like the good times
of my childhood would be unfair to like me and to anyone who
hears this because like, you know, I've heard a lot of people
say like, oh, my childhood was horrible and like all these
things, right. And like, I know that like as a

(29:13):
kid, I still had that outlook asa young kid of like wonder and
curiousness, you know, and I hadthat regardless of my
circumstances. And I think the more time goes
on in reality kind of sets in. You're you're, you become
accustomed to like being let down and being, you know, a

(29:35):
little less curious by by each like moment that comes by, you
know, but dude, like I, I wouldn't go back and change my
childhood. I wouldn't go back and like,
dude, fishing on the boat with my grandparents the best times,

(29:56):
you know, catching a fish, you know, like go in and see, you
know, I remember when I was about 5 years old, my, my
grandfather was a live conductorand he drove me to Reno, Vegas
and Reno, NV. I mean, and I got to see him
like conduct a live orchestra onstage.

(30:17):
And I mean that, that kind of stuff like you can't.
Well, it's. Interesting.
Yeah, You're bringing this up and like, it's like, well, the
man's up there moving people andsounds.
He's not saying a word. Right.
And one of the one of the first things you highlighted about
your grandfather was, is how, how, how much power he carried

(30:39):
in, in silence. And and you, you got to in
something that you're painting as almost like, you know, as an
analogy for what you're speakingto about, you know, the strength
of his character. And I find that just super
fascinating. What was what was your mom in
prison for? Was it drug related?
I mean, she, she had been arrested a bunch of times, but

(31:01):
primarily it was for an assault robbery.
You know, it wasn't that crazy. I mean, she, she just had, you
know, I relate to my mother likeshe's my mom.
You know, I relate to my, with my struggles in life so much.
And you know, I think she she just made a bad decision at the
time and was stealing from a store and ended up like punching

(31:24):
a security guard and got like assault, robbery and went to
prison for three years. Oh wow.
You know, your life can change in like a blink of it high.
It's not like she was out like hurting people, you know what I
mean? But like in that turn, like,
that drastically changed. Judgment right and.
It drastically changed my life and my little sister's life and

(31:47):
the life of my family. And, you know, in that moment,
like I lost my mom, not only didI lose my dad before that, but I
like lost my mom in that moment too, you know, And like I've
always been super protective of her.
And I've kind of formed my identity around that as a
protector as like the, you know,shaping myself to be like the

(32:11):
self selfless son and selfless brother and selfless grandson,
almost to the point where it's like affected me negatively.
And I haven't been able to fulfill that role at points in
my life, you know, But her strength and her her time

(32:35):
through that was, you know, a really, really crazy thing to
experience with her, you know, because you think about like
people that have family that arein the system and in locked up,
you know what I mean? It's not just like the person

(32:55):
that's in jail. It's like the whole and the
entire family and that loves them, right?
Part of them is is in there too,you know.
Yeah, did you? So you mom's in prison, Real dad
is. You haven't met yet.
And stepfather's nightmare. You're living with grandparents

(33:17):
still. How did you end up navigating
you're dealing with suicidal ideation?
How did you? And you just came back from
summer with, you know, in New York.
And it's like it changed your life perspective about like,
maybe there's something else to life than just getting your ass
beat and feeling like shit and wanting to die, right?
Like, and how did you navigate out of like maybe your teen

(33:41):
years and into your emerging adulthood?
Like what was it? Did it get better?
Did it get worse? Did you, did you have another
profound experience that something happened that maybe
put you on another path that youdidn't think you were going to
go on? Did you know how did those
relationships kind of unfold in in, in your passing through that

(34:02):
time? Yeah.
So like, I mean, around that time was when I, you know, kind
of started getting like a littlebit hopeful for for my future
and for, you know, the chance toactually be alive and

(34:23):
experiencing things. And, you know, the whole time I
was really just reaching for spiritual experiences.
I was reaching for like a connection to something outside
myself. I was reaching for, you know,
peace and stillness and warmth. And you know, in turn, like

(34:48):
around that time, you know, psychedelics and, and drugs
probably actually saved my life,you know, and actually, you
know, I, I really believe that like if I did not self medicate
during the times of my life whenI have, I wouldn't have been

(35:10):
able to properly deal and I probably would have made some
pretty bad decisions in terms oflike not being here anymore.
Interesting. You know, I mean, I kind of had
the experience. I was like 14 years old and I
and I, I did DMT as like my first psychedelic.

(35:32):
Which was straight to the top. Yeah, which was not like, I
don't necessarily recommend thatfor people, but it kind of just
like rocked me beyond belief in the, in the fact that like I had
an experience of healing and I had a different experience than

(35:54):
like the normal reality. That was kind of, in my eyes,
the dimension that we live in. And like what's actually here
and what's actually going on in that like energy is real and our
spirits are real. And, you know, I kind of like
after that, I just really be anywhere else than where I was,

(36:19):
right. And that's followed me like a
lot of my life, you know, being anywhere else than where I am at
the curtain and. Why do you think that is?
What, what is it? What is it that you think is not
important in front of you? What is there something else

(36:39):
that's more pressing out there somewhere?
Is that or is it like what is it?
What is it that like, kind of draws your attention away from
the present moment? I feel like just like real
emotional clarity for me and feeling like it probably is

(37:01):
never going to get better, right?
No matter what I do. And anxiety of the future kind
of thing. Yeah, and just, and simply, just
like none of it really matters. None of it really is worth it in
the end because at the end of the day, it's just like, you

(37:22):
know, it's just nothing. It's just void.
And I think that's like a commonphrase in my life of like, I'll
try really hard at things. And even if I accomplished
things, like, I'll feel that emptiness and I'll feel that
like worthlessness that I've hadto like, battle out of.
Right. And going back to like the

(37:44):
beginning of our conversation, like when I said like the thing
with my father when I was like 4or five years old and hearing
that like he didn't show up to be a father and where that like
kind of like rooted myself esteem.
And I've had to like really do like self work on that to where

(38:05):
I stopped victimizing myself andand started embracing like every
part of me and, and really believing like that feelings
aren't always facts, right? And that like who I am isn't
determined on like the self worth that I thought I was 1015

(38:27):
years ago that I had 10-15 yearsago, you know, because it's a
lot of different today. I had a lot of experiences, you
know, in, you know, coming to terms with the, the truths of my
experiences in my life and taking accountability for like
my side of things. And really like seeing that a

(38:49):
lot of life isn't personal, you know, it's.
Really Not, yeah. Like, I've always taken things
so deeply and so personally. And I think that's like really
like, you know, made me bitch and moan, made me a, you know, a
cock. It's made me like somebody who

(39:11):
just like, doesn't take, you know, strength and pride in like
my weaknesses. You know what I mean?
Who walks around moping? Who walks around pouting?
Poor me. Poor me, you know.
The was, the was are me, Yeah. Yeah.
And it's just it's, it's non productive and like.

(39:32):
A woe man bro. That's what I started calling
it. Woe, man.
Yeah, no. And and that's the thing, it's
like once I finally took accountability for like my own
feelings, right. And what I mean by that is like,
my mom didn't make me this way, My dad didn't make me this way.

(39:52):
Like my experiences didn't make me this way.
Like my reaction me this way. Right.
My choices, right? Yeah.
And like once I was able to change those like my like the
kind of man I wanted to be started coming to fruition and
the kind of like person I wantedto be started becoming an actual
reality, you know, and I actually like gained a lot of

(40:13):
self worth through that and gained a lot of like passion.
I gained a lot of like. Actual energy to like be the
person I wanted to be and be theprotector that I wanted to be
and show up for, like my grandmother, like we discussed
before when my grandfather died and and it afforded me the
ability to be that person, you know?

(40:36):
Right. So you made it out of your teens
and into adulthood by the grace of DMT.
And Oh yeah, it's interesting because when you're describing
it, it kind of reminded me of like a situation where, like,
you know, a cancer patient has to take something way worse than
fucking cancer to, to make sure that they're OK and have a

(40:57):
chance of survival, right? Like the, the chemo is
effectively killing them so thatthey can eradicate themselves
from this fucking horrible mess that is inside of them.
And it sounded like the suicidalideation was the cancer you were
dealing with and the DMT was theanswer in response to or the
psychedelics just generally speaking.

(41:19):
And that seemed to afforded you an opportunity to kind of keep,
you know, putting 1 foot in front of the other.
And it did some did anything else change?
Like like once you hit adulthood, did everything get
better? Like did you just kind of like,
you know, you don't deal with that stuff anymore?

(41:40):
Because like most artists deal with like, you know, the, the,
the, the, I don't even know whatit is.
It's like it's some weird dream to be part of the 27 club,
right? And it's like, and it's like
every artist does and I don't know why it's, it's kind of
funny. And I don't know that it's like
it maybe it's just like a, some weird like zeitgeist kind of
like vibe that just kind of consumes artists.

(42:02):
Just they're like, it's in the periphery of like what could
happen if like you make bad choices and don't do good
things. And if you get carried away or
something, I don't know what it is, but like you can talk to any
artist, bro. And most of them are like aware
of it. And, and so like, did you kind
of, you know, get through that? Like, how did you, how did you

(42:22):
navigate outside of, you know, coming out of, into going into
your adulthood into, you know, your 20s and like, was it all
smooth sailing? Did you start a family?
Did you become a father? Did you not?
Did you do more drugs? Did you, you know, get an
awesome job? How did your life fare from
there? And, and really quick just so we
go back to like the childhood thing for one second.

(42:42):
It's like, did you have any ideaof what you wanted to be when
you grew up? Did you, did you have a thing
that was like, I'm going to do this?
It's, it's really been like music, man.
That's the only thing. And not even for a profession
or, or to be successful in it. Like I just thank God.

(43:04):
Yeah. And just like just to do music,
you know what I mean? Regardless if that was like my
job or not, Like I don't then inthe day, I really like what we
make monetarily. At the end of the day, it's like
for me, what I can help for myself is that like I can
tolerate it enough to do it for my family and to and to bring in
the cheddar and to like support the people around me.

(43:27):
Aside from that, like just because I have a job doesn't
mean I can't have passions as well, fans outside of the job.
Yeah. But in reality, like when I met
you when I was 19, like, you know, life was so crazy.
And when I started like using heavily and started like using

(43:48):
Ivy use heroin at like 15. Because I mean, through that
like stretch of psychedelics where I was like trying to
connect to God and trying to find purpose and feel dislike
aliveness in my life. Like it got too much and it got
way too scary and it got way tooreal.
And I needed something to like fully quiet me down and fully

(44:10):
quiet my head down. And that's where like all that
self medication came in. And that's like where it's, you
know, and, and the time where mylife really changed is in like
where I finally actually grew upis when I got sober at 19, you
know, and I was sober for seven years and in total for that

(44:35):
time. And, you know, during that
entire time, I still struggled with SI like, you know, I took
you took away the self medication and it came back even
worse. And, you know, I put my energy
into like, work, getting a girlfriend, you know, like, like

(44:58):
overworking myself, like ignoring like the pressing
issues of like, what I needed tochange inside myself.
And I'm really good at, like, white knuckling my life.
I'm really good at, like, I havea lot of willpower.
So I don't. Yeah.
And it's funny when you talk about willpower, you know, and

(45:19):
like, you know, because it comesfrom like, power, right?
And then like having the will tolike carry that power throughout
my, you know, early adulthood, Ireally formed accountability and
like really the ability to take care of myself.

(45:40):
And I think that's like, like doing that was one of the most
essential things for my life because I learned to be self
sustainable. And in turn, being self
sustainable in my eyes was beingself loving.
You know, like I cared enough regardless of what I was going

(46:02):
through emotionally, regardless of what was going around me, I
cared enough to like wake up andkeep a roof over my head and
keep, you know, my bills paid and it keeps truck and even in
that way. Hey, you're loving yourself.
Yeah. Absolutely nobody.
All right. Yeah.

(46:23):
You know, in in inside for that 27 club.
It's funny, like the night that I turned 27, I had AI purposely
put a white lighter in my pocket, which is funny because
that's been one of like the legends of that.
Right. I've really, I've really tried
to die in my life. I really have like in, in

(46:47):
different ways. Like I've always been adrenaline
seeking and I've always done like really crazy things and
been in like really strange accidents.
You know, like in 2017 I flew like 30 feet head first into a
truck on on my Harley and like totaled my bike and went face
first into the side of a truck and didn't even like spray in my

(47:07):
neck. And like I've always like
secretly wished for, like, you know, something to Take Me Out
right, And I've put my like bodyand put myself in situations to
like have certain things happen to me.
And it just like, you know, I finally have like, you know,

(47:32):
gotten to a place in in life where I'm like, all right, I
give up, dude, like, cool, I'll be here.
Fine control and you know. And that control and letting go

(48:08):
of that, like almost like the Super alpha mentality of like,
I'm going to control everything.I'm going to do everything and
thank God. Yeah.
Just like thinking that I'm someGod, like, makes me so it, it
emasculates me. Yeah.
Makes you weak. Yeah, At least I think so.
Yeah. I mean, for myself, that's true,
right? Because I'm then I'm.

(48:28):
I'm at the fucking mercy of everything that won't bend to my
will. 100%. Right.
And then I'm saying that I'm, I'm an alpha with no emotions
and here I am crying about everything not going my way,
right. You, you see dudes, big dudes,
right? All the fucking time, bro, just
on fucking rampages about like how they're not getting their
way. And it's like, it's just a big
like pissy fit bro. It's it's hilarious.

(48:50):
So shit. Is pathetic, yeah.
It's a, it's A at the very leastentertaining, you know?
Yeah. Like, somebody's got to be that,
you know, somebody's got to be the, the crybaby, you know?
And I mean, everyone has their place, though.
I think like, you know, when youthink about friendships and

(49:11):
like, oh. So no one's perfect, but yeah,
go ahead. Like conditional friendships,
unconditional friendships, love,not loving people hate like I
think everything in the universehas its like rightful place
here. And you know if if you know at
times in my life, I've been the crybaby.

(49:31):
I've been this. I like, I choose on a daily
basis like which you know, whichperson I want to be, you know,
because just because I've, you know, equally in the retrospect
of like the person I was for those like 7 years of sobriety
and the amount of self work thatI did on myself, you know, like
equally the next five years after I relapse, I was like in a

(49:54):
deeper, deeper hole than I ever was.
I was in hopeless hole than I ever was.
I was like, you know, accepting like, you know, an alcoholic
death in a way and giving up, like my aspirations, giving up

(50:14):
the person I wanted to be, you know, I didn't have any like,
choice anymore. And I was like, more than like,
not even like in terms of masculinity or like being
emasculated in that. Like, I was like just ripped
away of everything I had. And my identity became that too.
You know, like the outside worldis so much stronger than I am

(50:39):
that if I try to control in any way, I always lose.
You know, I'm curious because there seems to be a thread here,
but you said you started using IV heroin at 141515.

(51:01):
Yeah. How the fuck did you even get
there? Like what happened?
Like how, how did, like, how does that happen?
Because I, I've never used hard drugs like that, right?
Like, and so, but like, I'm like, how do you, especially at
that age where like, because I, I've, I've been around people,
not you. Other people went back when like

(51:23):
I used to like drink and stuff and partying and like, it's like
when you're, when I, I was in like the wrong circles, like big
time. I like, I've already alienated
myself from all my friends. I'm in the fucking, you know,
like last times on the block kind of thing, bro, like on the
opposite end, right? And it's like, and then here

(51:44):
comes the fucking people who aredoing like the drugs, bro.
And it's like, and I, I remember, like I remember being
in this room with these people and I'm like, I've, I've made a
mistake. What the fuck is happening?
And I I just kind of like made anote of it and I never, you
know, got involved with any of that, thankfully for myself,
right, it's just never appealing.

(52:06):
But like I was an adult, like I was, I was an adult adult, like
I'd already been in my career stage of drinking pretty good,
right, And like, and the self destruction pretty well.
And it's like, it took me a minute to find it, like by
accident. And then so like at 15, how do
you even like Mosey on into a fucking situation where it's

(52:29):
like, you know, because I can see if it's like, you know,
cocaine or something, somebody say hey, bump, like, oh, OK.
But it's like there's just this whole setup and ritual for the
other stuff that it's like, how does that happen at that age and
how did you get there? Well, it's, it's for me it was
like pretty simple like, I mean,I, I grew up watching like my,

(52:52):
my mom use, you know, specifically like heroin gotcha
on and off. And you know, once I started
like. So it was normal.
Yeah, absolutely. Like it was, it was really like
it was a solution, right. And even like in my head, and I
didn't really didn't know it at the time, like suicide at that

(53:14):
time was a solution as well. Like there's, there's so many
solutions to changing how you feel right in the world, whether
it be like food, sex, you know, music, you know, there's so many
different ways to like feel different.
But like my surroundings and like what I saw and like I was

(53:36):
always curious about it. I was always curious why my
father, you know, gave up fatherhood to do this.
You know what I mean? Like, what's the catch, right?
And, but what really like started me in on it was I had
like a, an accident when I was in, I think like between like

(54:00):
4th and 6th grade, I was around like 11 or 12 years old and I
broke my leg in a couple places.And like, just like so many
stories of like other Americans,like I, I was introduced to like
Vicodin in Norco at that age. And I remember being able to

(54:21):
like, finally breathe the. Goddamn doctors bro.
Every fucking time bro. That pathway is always the
fucking opiates through prescription bro.
It is, you know, and like I didn't really understand what
was going on at the time becauseI was still pretty young, you
know what I mean? I didn't really understand like
why I was feeling that way. And it was because of my pain

(54:41):
medication taking, you know, started like smoking weed and
drinking a little bit and started becoming like a little
educated on like what drugs were.
I knew I remembered like that, even if it was subconsciously
opiates give me that feeling, right?
And it was, it was really like an like an old buddy here.

(55:04):
I think he was like a senior in high school and he was like, I
think I was like 13 or something.
And he, I got in the car with him and he was smoking heroin
and I tried it and, and like, I instantly like really liked it
and didn't touch it again for about like a year and a half.

(55:24):
And I think it was when like my,my mom was either just getting
out of prison or, or just got out into like a halfway where I
was in. Halfway, yeah, you're cutting
out a little bit. No, sorry, it was possibly when
like either my mom was getting out of prison or getting put
into a halfway house. OK.

(55:47):
I had the opportunity again withanother older friend to do it
when I was like turning 15. Around that time, and I mean,
within six months, I was an IV user.
Within like a month, I didn't really have a choice to like use
or not because of physical withdrawal.

(56:07):
And I was like, so at the time, like I didn't have any money.
You know, to get the most bang for your buck, you shoot it, you
know, And that's like, really where that took me so quickly.
And then once I crossed that like imaginary line, crossed
that like level of drug addiction at such a young age, I

(56:31):
pretty much just like fucked myself.
Yeah, you're off to the races until you said 19.
Yeah, yeah, for like 4 years. What changed?
Like how bad did it get? Like how it like did you go to
Skid Row bro? Like where you were pitching
tents with other fucking drug users?
Like how like was it really bad that you or did you just kind of
just wake up when you're like I'm done?

(56:53):
Like what changed? It was really bad for a long
time, but what really like drastically affected me was like
I was, I was 19 and I was like living in my car and I and later

(57:13):
on in life, I, it took me a while to like admit this, right?
But like, I was kidnapped and sexually assaulted and like,
that experience in my life was so impactful and so destructing

(57:34):
that like after that for months on and I was trying to like kill
myself through the drugs. How old were you when that
happened? I was 19.
So is that the tail end of like you're stopping abusing?
Yeah, I mean, that's really whatbrought me to like, to like my

(57:59):
sobriety. Like I, I couldn't, I couldn't
handle anything emotionally anymore.
And the way the way I got myselfinto that situation was like I
at the time, I was living on like my mom's like my mom had an
apartment at the time in Van Nuys.
And I was like in a, in a place of like, fuck you, mom.

(58:22):
This is what you did to me. I'm a victim, right?
And I was like living in my car.And we like, we're like walking
a 711 to get me cigarettes something.
And somebody asked us for a ride.
You know, this is before Uber. This was like they didn't have a
phone. They asked me for a cigarette.
And like, me and my mom just kind of like wanted to help this

(58:44):
person and that person ended up being a user as well.
And so I ended up like going andmeeting up to like, just get
high. And, you know, the night was
fun. We went to like a strip club and
it was an older dude and like, everything was cool.
And, you know, I was bored. And I was like, in a place of

(59:05):
like, I don't have anything elsebetter than to do than to like,
hang out with people on the samevibrational frequency as me.
You know what I mean? Right.
And, you know, so like a flip switch from the dude's brain, it
was like really, really scary. And he got super violent, super
quick and like, threatened to kill my mother because he knew

(59:25):
like, where her apartment was. And, you know, essentially I
went through that entire experience, you know, and like,
didn't run or like get myself out of it for almost a week
because of fear of my mother getting hurt and.

(59:47):
Yeah, you're a hostage. Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, it was, it was like one of the things in my
life where I like I felt so silenced and so just like just
thrown away in a way. But like the light at the end of

(01:00:11):
the tunnel was like I felt. Useful in protecting my mother
and that like kind of stems backto like my myself identity in
like a world where like I've, you know, like a lot, a lot of
my identity being a you're breaking up a bit there.

(01:00:32):
Can you hear me now? Yeah, a lot of your identities.
What? Is stemmed from like being a
brother, being a son, being thatlike provider, that protector,
that person who you know, is there for them.
And in those moments of like incredible abuse, I was able to

(01:00:53):
find, you know, soulless, reallylike, I don't really know how to
explain it in a way that like could really come across like
the emotion behind it. But like I was able to find like
acceptance in those moments because it was worth something.
And that's like what's protecting my family.

(01:01:16):
And I don't know if that if thatdidn't happen to me, I don't
know if I would have gotten sober.
I don't know if I would have been like where I was in life
after that because that really catapulted me into wanting help.

(01:01:42):
Yeah, dude, I mean, I honestly want to thank you like a lot for
for sharing that. That's because it's a really,
really fucking crazy thing to gothrough for anybody.
That's that's a really insane thing to have to contend with.
And then also to kind of feel silent about.

(01:02:02):
And then on top of that, you know, just generally sharing
that is is really difficult. And it takes a lot of courage to
kind of especially as, as a dude, to, to be open and honest
about, you know, without gettinginto details and stuff, right,
like it just to be honest and open about the situation of
something that happened to you that was really real.
Because I don't, I don't think that a dudes realize how much

(01:02:28):
stuff like that, like the sexualassault and stuff between dudes
happens like a lot. Absolutely.
And I've, I've shared, you know,with you and, and others before,
right? That like I, I was sexually
abused as a child for multiple years.
And it's like there, there's nothing you can do about it,
dude. Like, and, and you just kind of,
you kind of try not to let it shape the way that you, you

(01:02:48):
identify as, especially in a world that where we're so
especially with dudes, right? Where it's like we're talking
about like the alphas, the betasand like, you know, everything
in between. And like the spectrum of like,
you know, male masculinity and how it, you know, there's this
traditional standard and like, and it's like, no, dude, but
this stuff has been going on forever.
Like go read a fucking book on the Greeks, bro.
They've been doing this shit forfucking ever, right?

(01:03:10):
Like they every like it really is holes are holes when it comes
to dudes. I don't know what the fuck it
is, bro, but like, and it's fucking it's I know, dude, but
it's like it, the assault part is the what we like males do not
acknowledge enough and there's alot of dudes out there who like
exist in absolute fucking silence, bro.

(01:03:31):
Like and it, it really bothers me because it's so important to,
you know, and women have their own thing that they'd contend
with and like the me too shit and all that, dude.
And like, I, I can't imagine what any of that shit must
fucking feel like, right? Like, and, and then it's like,
well, I can, because I was, I was a victim of, you know, a

(01:03:51):
male sexual assault. And it's like, it's, it's, it's
fucking hard to live with probably like, and, and then you
kind of you see a light at the end of the tunnel and you, you
can't change the past, but you can, you can understand the
things that have happened, whatever.
And then in hopes to kind of cleanse all of that is, you

(01:04:12):
know, just sharing with others so that like other dudes might,
might understand like, oh, it's not just me.
Yeah, this happens. And like, I, I fucking dude, it
happens a lot. Like, and it goes underreported
like a motherfucker. And actually in more recent
years, like in the last decade or so, we're having more reports
of, you know, males talking about it.

(01:04:33):
And males are obviously more prone to, to, to being the
aggressors, right? But I, I don't know that like, I
mean, more recently we're seeingwomen being coming aggressors,
especially towards children, right?
And it's like, I, I think it's just that the way that things
are being reported and discussedreally.
And I think that there's just something that happens out there
sometimes and. Yeah.

(01:04:56):
Yeah, yeah, it's. Just like people are actually
starting to speak about it. I think right, right.
And it's unfortunate this stuff happens.
Like for real. I held in my just, like, like
you just said, like when I was six or seven, like, older kids
in the neighborhood molested me when I was young, before I even
knew what sex was, you know, Right.

(01:05:18):
I held that secret until I was, like, 19 or 20 years old.
Yeah. And I think that's, like, very
apparent in, like, what I've gained from, like, speaking
about this kind of stuff is like, making others feel less
alone in it, which is, like, entirely a beautiful thing.
I've had like guys in my life where I've kind of like mentored

(01:05:41):
in a way, at least during that like sobriety process who have
specifically heard me like sharethose stories on a public level,
right? And have asked me for help in
that way. And I would like able to be a
safe place for them to tell me about what happened to them and

(01:06:05):
just to give them that space. You know what I mean?
And like, I hope, I can only hope that that, you know, really
impacted their lives in a positive way because like, like
you're right, you can't change what's happened, but you can
change how you process it. You know what I mean?
And like, it took me, you know, what, 12 years to even bring it

(01:06:32):
up in therapy and until what, four months ago, really actual,
do actual work on it. And like, and I did some work on
it and it was terrifying. And you know, I did this process
called EMDR and on specifically like one of the moment during
that time when I was 19 and I had to replay the image over

(01:06:53):
and, and I mean, I was like hysterically crying afterwards.
It was rough because so much energy was like stuff down into
that place, right? And you know, it's like, it
really doesn't matter, like the gender, like sexual assault

(01:07:16):
happens all the time. This shit happens regardless if
you're male, regardless if. Oh, your shit's breaking out
fucking bad, bro. I don't know what's going on
over there. I think your connection or
something. Is it better now?
It's, I mean, I can hear you right now, but yeah, I mean
regardless of of gender, what not you were saying regardless

(01:07:36):
of species animal. Regardless of any of these
things, you know, for you know, I'm sure since the beginning of
man people have been not respecting others physical
boundaries, you know, and I think especially for men on this
topic, like yeah, it is suppressed.

(01:07:57):
It's shut up. That didn't happen.
You don't be a man about it. Don't buddy, don't let anyone
show your weakness. Don't let anyone, you know, you,
you don't have the right to healfrom that because you know what
I mean? And, and in turn, a lot of like
the men that this happens to, like trauma gets passed down and
they do it to others, you know? Yeah, One thing I I experienced

(01:08:23):
was like when I would talk to dudes about it, it was like I
was like, I was like out, like out, like ousted, right?
Like I was in part of the like, I was like viewed down like a
fucking like in contempt, right?Like, yeah.
Like it was, it was crazy, dude.It was really weird.
And I think one of the craziest part about that was like my

(01:08:44):
relationships with men really fucking shifted.
Like, like it was, it was reallyweird.
And I had a really hard time like being friends with dudes,
like my fucking bonds with, withmen, especially because like I
grew up with, you know, a, a, a father situation similar to

(01:09:07):
yours, right, where it's like it's kind of a fucking free for
all as far as the dads went. And it was like, you know, you,
you put that against, you know, sexual assault and it just
compounds the fucking, the, the non existing relationship to
ever be at right. Like it just doesn't work.
And so there's no way to build trust, rapport or, or, you know,
fucking camaraderie or like anything.

(01:09:27):
And it's just like, yeah, I don't know if you had that, that
that problem too. Absolutely.
I mean, I've I mean, especially after like when I was younger,
like it relationships with like I feel most most vulnerable and

(01:09:50):
comfortable with women. You know, I have so many like
and even like when you were saying earlier, like, like you,
you view me more as like a dude,right, or like, or like that,
like masculine, you know, qualities are probably a little
bit more prominent. But also like in ways of like

(01:10:12):
the friendships I have in my life, like my with women are
like my, some of my most important relationships, me and
my growth to like so necessary and firm.
And I'm able to be that friend for a lot of women, which I
think is really fucking cool because like bringing up the
topic of like, like a lot of people really actually do view

(01:10:36):
like men and women can't be actual friends, which is like
funny because like there's plenty of women in my life that
there's like really no ulterior motives behind our friendship.
You know, there's no like sexualmotive behind their friendship
like it is. And I think that's hard for a
lot of men and I and in retrospect, like I think true

(01:11:01):
masculinity is being able to have that as well.
Yeah, it definitely comes with asense of maturity too, right?
Like. Yeah, right.
Word. There's not out there just
fucking scoping the field all the time.
Like at some point you just kindof grow out of that.
And and some people never do, though.
Some people. That's true, yeah, Yeah.

(01:11:21):
And more often not like a lot oflike people, like from what I've
experienced, at least in my surroundings, like it's really
not that way for them. Like they like a lot of guys,
like they'll have female friends.
They ever got ants would do something, you know, And not to

(01:11:43):
go off to like on a tangent about that, but like those that
shapes my identity as well as a person and like, you know, some
of my best friends in life were women.
So when you, you, you had to cope with all this stuff and it

(01:12:03):
kind of came to a head and, and you're just like, OK, well,
fuck, time to get sober. And so, so at 19 you went
willing. Well, well, how did you approach
this? Yeah, so I really like, I'd been
to rehab a couple times before and before this and there it was

(01:12:25):
all unwilling. I mean I tried AI, tried
committing suicide by police force when I was like 15.
Jesus Christ. And, you know, I like called the
Sheriff's Department, that wasn't my first time into like a
rehab facility with my mom called the Sheriff's Department
on me. And then I called them in, armed

(01:12:47):
to the teeth with weapons and explosives and.
You told them that. Yeah, yeah.
Because I knew the response I had to get, you know, and I, I
really, I really didn't want to be here anymore.
And so they surrounded my house.They thought I had weapons, you
know what I mean? And they, you know, broke in
through my windows and play with, you know, on my chest.

(01:13:11):
And like in that moment, I very easily could have, you know,
made a sudden movement. But you know, that was my first
introduction rehab facility was through like a psych ward where
I spent like 2 weeks there when,when I was like 15.
And but when I was 19 and after all this happened, I was so

(01:13:33):
empty inside. Like I just, I couldn't go one
more day feeling the way I was feeling.
And I, I checked myself in somewhere and that was like the
first time that I as a person, like really asked for help, you
know, help was forced upon me. And I really think to happen
personally inside myself, like Ican't be pushed to do anything.

(01:13:57):
It has to come from internally. Right.
And even to this time, like I like, you know, a lot of my
story, anybody listening doesn't.
But in February I got sober again.
And I mean, I had knew I needed help for a while.

(01:14:20):
I relapsed after seven years sober and I was using fentanyl
for five years and I lost the power of choice in that matter,
really. And, you know, I had one of my
really close friends living withme and he had just gotten out of

(01:14:41):
out of jail. You went to prison for a couple
years. And I tried helping him out and
giving a home afterwards becausehe didn't have anywhere to go.
And, you know, within two months, you know, one night he
was going through a lot and he ended up like relapsing and
using him. I woke up and he was he was

(01:15:01):
dead. And I went through that
experience. He said one morning you woke up
and he was dead. Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, fuck. And that like, you know, I've
had, I've lost a lot of people to drug addiction, to accidents,
to just plain old life happening, you know, cancer.

(01:15:27):
Like, I've lost really close people around me, lost people to
suicide, like one of our close friends, you know, and all of
those really, really hurt. But this was like a different
type of hurt because you know, the powerlessness I felt in that

(01:15:50):
moment of not being able to and.Not being able to what?
Help him. It destroyed me, you know, and
you know, that experience, that traumatic experience of finding
my friend who passed away, you know, really, really, you know,

(01:16:18):
put me in a place where I was just like, I can't continue to
live the way that I'm living, even on with all myself
knowledge that I had and what I was doing to my family and those
around me. The fear that I put into like
the lives of others around me just for like what I was doing

(01:16:39):
to my, my personal self, You know, that experience of losing
him, you know, like I stepped into the shoes of like others
around me and I saw myself in him.
And you know, that like, like, no matter what I was like in

(01:17:04):
that, in that moment, needing tolike make somewhat of a change
because not only did I go through that, but like this
happened in my grandmother's house.
And my grandmother first hand lost somebody that she loved
dearly. And that was really there for
her as well. And like, you know, we lived
together and, you know, I hate when people use tragic accidents

(01:17:34):
like this as like motivations toget better, right?
Because I really believe that like, you know, people always
use like events like that to like be better or like, oh,
learn a lesson, you know what I mean?
And like tragic accidents are just tragic accidents, you know,

(01:17:55):
like these things aren't meant to be like super life lessons.
It's just like sometimes it's just plain out like sad and
terrible and horrendous and coming from that I, I couldn't
be a part of that like world anymore.

(01:18:16):
Knowing who I am inside and meeting my friend's son for the
first time after past, you know,and seeing someone who lost
their father, you know, talk about fatherhood, right?
Meaning somebody who lost their father and like I lost a friend

(01:18:40):
and he lost his dad. Like it, it just moved something
in me that like I just couldn't,I couldn't fathom that kind of
stuff anymore. I couldn't continue like being a
part of something like that anymore because of that pain,

(01:19:00):
you know, And I asked for help again, man, you know, a couple
weeks after that, you know, and.I feel like it might have been a
really, really gnarly situation to like kind of Orient you
towards maybe seeking something different and as a friend, I

(01:19:23):
mean, I, you know, that I'm gladthat that you're doing well now
and that you're sober again. And, but is, is somebody who's
not stepping outside of that fora second.
It's like that situation alone is just like, it's a gnarly
situation to go through, you know, and it's your grandma's
house And, and the, the way thatyou, you paint that picture is

(01:19:44):
like, you know, I lost a friend,but this kid lost a dad like
that. So it just really puts it into
perspective of like what the destruction of it is and, and
how how their choices really do affect other people and how, how
real they are, right? And they're not just real in one
moment and wrinkle of time, right?
It's like it's, it's like our instance of time.

(01:20:05):
It's like it's, it reverberates forward into the future of like
our decisions, right? And, and now this kid really is
going to grow up without a father, right?
And who knows what that looks like, right?
And, or how that impacts his life.
And you know, how, how easy or harder his life may have been
because of it or not, right? And.

(01:20:27):
And you're viewing this right and just making a decision like,
you know, maybe it's fucking time, bro.
Yeah, it's amazing. It had been time for a long,
long while. But that experience and that
pain, I just, I couldn't imagineinflicting that on anyone else.

(01:20:48):
What? What was it about?
Because you went, you went 19 and then sober seven years and
then you were out on the field 5.
Yeah, five years I I was. What what was what was it like
what? What wasn't working?
What what did you do that made you or like what happened?
That was like, all right, I'm going to go use again.

(01:21:11):
Like what changed? Were you unhappy?
We'll Simply put like I 100% like.
Because you identified that it got worse than the first time
for sure. Absolutely.
Right. OK, so I'm.
Just curious why someone would choose that.
Yeah. And that's saying a lot because

(01:21:33):
the first time was. Was really bad.
Yeah, like I like the first timebefore I got sober, like like
the instances that brought me there, like the kidnapping, all
that kind of stuff. Like it was, it was a really bad
situation to be in. It was a really bad head to be
in. And getting getting sober didn't
necessarily take away all my problems.

(01:21:54):
It really, you know, made my emotional problems bigger, but
my physical problems a little bit better, right?
And in turn like working like 12step programs and like all
things. And you know, I really believed
in life that like if I did these12 step programs and if I just

(01:22:15):
stayed sober, that like my life was.
Your life was what? Going to be OK.
OK. Ignoring the fact that I, you
know, diagnosed with like clinical depression, PTSD,
anxiety, and like all these, youknow, outside issues and dual

(01:22:36):
diagnosis that I particularly wasn't like ready or willing to
like go to fucking therapy for. Right.
And that like just built upon itself, you know, for years I
got you. I white knuckled my depression
and I white white knuckled my SIand my anxiety and my PTSD and

(01:23:00):
like, you know, my, my sexual trauma and like all that stuff.
I just like pushed it down more and more and more and affected
like abstinence of substances tobe the answer.
You're carrying all the monkeys on your back.
Yeah, and I had freedom from substances.
Don't get me wrong. I didn't want to like anymore

(01:23:23):
that, but I got to a place when I was like 26 years old that
like nothing was of that like nothing like held substance.
There wasn't like any sort of purpose anymore.
Like my sobriety didn't matter my I.
You're what? You're sobriety didn't matter.

(01:23:44):
And you're what? And if I was like using that
didn't matter either. I, I ended up like I was, I did
a cross country road trip duringlike September of COVID and
that's like right when I have a new year sober and that's.
When you had about 7 years sober.

(01:24:04):
Yeah. And I recorded a record, and I
was in New York, and I was back into another headspace where I
really did not want to be here anymore again.
And these feelings were so strong and so extreme.
I was, like in a subway system. And I, like everything in my

(01:24:29):
body was telling me to jump in front of a train.
And the only thing that, like, Icould make sense of in my brain
in those moments after, you know, lives in Manhattan, like a
couple stops away from where I was.
And she's with your sister. Yeah.

(01:24:51):
My little sister. She was living in New York City
at the time. And the only thing I could,
like, think of as a reason why not to, you would have to like,
ID what body would be left afterthat?
And it was like the only thing of like, I can't do that to her.

(01:25:11):
I don't matter. But I can't do that to her, you
know? And I mean that mindset just
continued and it was like almostinescapable to the point where
like I, I made the choice like Ineed to self medicate or
something drastic going to happen again.
So you're jumping in front of train isn't an option.

(01:25:32):
But like, what I'm I'm curious is like, what was causing that?
Like what happened that suddenlyyou're doing the things that you
want to be doing. You're on a road trip.
Rd. tips are mostly fun for mostpeople, I suppose.
And you're getting, you know, you said that music was the only
thing you ever really give a shit about.
And here you are doing, you know, making this album and you

(01:25:53):
know, and your best thinking is like, well, maybe it's time to
die. So like, what?
What the fuck happened? Like what was causing that?
That's the, that's the like curious crazy thing about like
depression and actual like real clinical depression is that like

(01:26:14):
no matter what's going on, like things could be so good in life,
you know what I mean? Like your brain finds a reason
to not like, be OK, right? Yeah.
It wasn't like anything pertinent.
I just like felt this like incessant need to like not be in

(01:26:35):
my body. Oh, interesting.
And I just, I was tired, man. I was really tired.
I was really tired of like. Holding it together.
Yeah. Yeah.
Playing the role it's. Like when your fucking pants
don't fit, bro. Yeah, it's just, you know what I

(01:26:56):
mean? Like in 2018, my grandfather
died and I moved in with my grandmother and I took care of
her for, you know, those three years up until this happened and
like, and after as well. But like, I was really
overloaded. Like my life wasn't really mine.
I, I had like a lot of like shoes to fill, big shoes to fill
in my family and I, I just overloaded, man.

(01:27:19):
And I was tired and I was tired of doing so many things to like
just to be at the same level as everybody else, just to have
like a chance at life, right? Because of all the stuff that I
deal with. And, and honestly, like for the
temporary time, like using like again, once again, like it did

(01:27:40):
when I was younger, saved my life because it really quieted
my head down. It made all those feelings go
away, you know, for a short period of time.
And then that stopped working and I was stuck again, you know
which five years ago. Temporary relief of of you
having to contend with the fact that you just left all your

(01:28:02):
responsibilities on the table, right?
100%, yeah. Yeah.
And the more time goes on, the more of those responsibilities
are left on the table. The more of those
responsibilities weigh on your heart, the harder it is to crawl
out of that hole. And that's why I like, it's

(01:28:26):
really for anyone dealing with like mental health issues, like
simple fact of like opening yourmouth about it is huge.
Talking about it is huge. And like, let alone going and
doing something about it, it's gigantic, man.
Because I've everyone deals withthis kind of stuff, you know
what I mean? Like we're not robots.

(01:28:49):
We're humans with emotions. Like everyone's dealt with being
depressed in some way. Everyone's dealt with sadness,
with joy, you know what I mean? Like there's like just because
like. Experiencing life on life's
terms. Yeah, 100% in like it's not
necessarily like a disadvantage or an advantage in a lot of
ways, but your reaction to it iswhat dictates how much hold it

(01:29:13):
has over your life, right. And I don't know man or at.
Least the caliber of consequences you're going to
contend with for sure. Yeah, absolutely.
So, so you're you, you're out there doing the thing and and
did you start using their where you were out there or like, did

(01:29:35):
you, did you go back home after the album thing got done?
And and then no, I didn't care about the album after that.
Like what? How did you end up back into the
midst of the throes of nonsense again?
And. So I leaving New York like I I
didn't use immediately. I, I picked up a buddy in, in
the city and when we decided to like drive to Yellowstone and on

(01:29:59):
the West Coast and we made it down to like Houston, TX.
And I was at a red light and andI got hit by a trash truck,
totaled my car, ended up in the hospital and just like got on a
plane back to Los Angeles, you know, And I tried to drink on
the plane. And it was funny because like,

(01:30:21):
the universe was telling me like, you know, no, because it
was during COVID, right? And I tried to like order a
drink on the plane and they toldme no.
Oh, interesting. And I remember kind of like
sitting there in my head going like, oh, really?
Like the one time that I'm actually making this decision,

(01:30:43):
I'm getting denied, you know, And it was kind of like a sign,
right, that I should have taken that heed.
But yeah, no, I got off the flight.
It was 8:00 AM and I, I had likethe, the cutest drink ever.
It was a vodka cranberry. And I, I really believed at this

(01:31:05):
time that I was just going to drink alcohol and like smoke
weed. I really believed it just.
Just to get the edge off right. Yeah, just to just like just to
survive myself a little bit, youknow, I'm just going to smoke
weed. And that lasted like 2 months,
you know? Two months and then you're back

(01:31:28):
on heroin or fentanyl. Yeah, I mean, at this point,
there wasn't heroin anymore. It's like epidemic, you know,
the United States really. And like, you know, there wasn't
really heroin anymore. That's like the only option you
had. So if you, like, survive the
first week of using it, you knowyour tolerance goes up and then
you're just fucked. Yeah, and so then you're off to

(01:31:52):
the races with fentanyl for fiveyears.
Yeah. You just thought it was going to
be little, little booze and a little weed.
Yeah. Fuck.
Yeah, man, it I know deep down to my side myself, I knew it was
always opiates, you know, I knewthat it was going to go back to
that, but I didn't want to like telling myself that.

(01:32:15):
I was trying to like convince myself that it wasn't that I
wasn't going to entirely give upeverything that I loved, that I
wasn't going to give up everything worthwhile in my
life, my relationships, my, my role I had in life, my, you
know, passions, my creativity, my, you know, everything

(01:32:36):
worthwhile. Within a year it was like the
only thing I cared about was notbeing physically sick.
Right. You know.
Anything in my in my warpath, you know, was, was getting
pushed out of the way. If you got in the way of that,

(01:33:01):
you know, and during that time, I mean, I went through every bad
emotion you can go through and every empty emotion and every
experience that someone could experience that through from
psychosis to like utter hopelessness to just, you know,
not wanting to be here, like in such extreme methods.
And, you know, I survived it. A lot of people haven't, you

(01:33:26):
know, my friend didn't survive it at my house.
You know, it's, it's the reality.
It's the reality of today in ourworld.
You know, like I've seen young people die from it personally,
like known so many people, you know, I've watched somebody die

(01:33:46):
from it in front of me. You know what I mean?
Like it's. Right.
Yeah, this shit does not discriminate for sure.
It doesn't. It really doesn't.
You know you know, and then we had our mutual friend, right?
Shout out Brize man, fuck it. Dude was one of the most
incredible human beings I've ever known.

(01:34:07):
Is fucking shame. But the impacts and this, he, he
was one of those guys that also I wanted to bring him up because
it's like he's one of those dudes that like showed you like
the, the totality of what, like the disease is, right.

(01:34:29):
And, and not just the disease, but the fucking crippling
depression and nature of that compounded by the disease in a
world where like you, you just are a fucking different person
and you don't fit in and you're trying really hard and you're
doing all the fucking things andlife is just giving you fucking
finger, bro. And, and that dude tried his ass

(01:34:52):
off bro. And like, and we both know that,
right? And.
More than I've ever seen anybodytry I.
Know dude, he wanted to get it. That was one of the saddest
things I've ever seen in my lifebro.
Like he wanted to get it so bad,he wanted nothing more to like
just to be sober and like a happy contributing member of
society and it fucking didn't work for him.
Even aside from sobriety, just to like, not feel the way he was

(01:35:14):
feeling anymore. Yeah, and and he was constantly
one of those people who was kindof battling with the, the death
thing too, right? The the, the ideations and
whatnot. And you mentioned it earlier and
I didn't stop you because I wanted you to keep telling your
story, but like, it's something that I kind of dealt with too.
I think mine was just a little bit more drama than it was

(01:35:36):
actually wanting to die. But there was times where I can
remember where I'm like, dude, when I was like deep in my
alcoholism, I was like, I reallywanted to die.
And it was just because I, I wasstuck in a fucking like trap,
like, and it was a never ending cycle, dude.
And I, I couldn't get out of it.And, and I, I like now in

(01:35:59):
hindsight, and it seemed more like an ego death that I was
trying to complete, right? And it was, it was, it was
mostly these layers of ego that needed to die, right?
And So what I'm trying to, to lay to rest is not my soul and
myself, but rather the, the false soul and self, right, is
that the shadows and the egos and the, and those things that

(01:36:21):
are just not me for real. It's all the stuff that's not
allowing me to actually like be,emerge as, as who I am or I'm
supposed to be, right? And, and I think that when for
myself, when I started doing that a lot, I started my
relationship started changing and rightfully so, right,
because I've become a different person, or rather, I become the

(01:36:42):
person I was trying to be. And, and as I, I get further and
further away from that, I'm to me, it just is this constant
shedding of ego, right? And what is stopping me and what
is what is feeling like a death and is, is usually the ego.

(01:37:03):
And so I'm curious about. So all the stuff you were
mentioning earlier, every time you had like some kind of like a
shift towards that, which was, you know, that righteous or
whatever it was like you, you'relike, I got honest, I got honest
and I got straight and I went and I did the right thing,
right? Or I did the work And and like

(01:37:24):
all of that stuff kind of just seems like, Oh, that sounds like
when you put the ego down and just kind of, you know, are of
service and like doing the rightthing kind of thing, right.
Am I am I far off on that? Is that you relate to that at
all? No, absolutely.
I mean, especially with like theego death and like just, you

(01:37:46):
know, wanting freedom from that,you know, because like in turn
with like me, a man in today's society, like your ego is like
what drives so much, right? And when you have like problems
with like overabundance of ego and over, you know, wanting more

(01:38:09):
with everything that you have, it gets really crazy, right?
And yeah, man, it's just to likekind of bring up with what we

(01:38:30):
were talking about with Bryce isthat like I had an experience
and his story changed my entire life because like, I watched, I
watched somebody like try religion, you know, self help
programs really. Bro everything.
Exercise, therapy, medication like I watched him try every

(01:38:57):
single which way in like solution that this world has to
offer. And he never have to ask it.
Never have to ask it or betterment of mental health and
he still never got better and heended up taking his life.
And I looked at myself and I'm like, OK, asshole, you've only

(01:39:20):
really tried like 12 step programs and rehabilitation.
Like you've never really tried therapy.
You've really never tried medication.
You've never really tried any ofthese things that are like
available to you because of yourprivilege and having health
insurance alone, you know, to get better.
Right. To improve your life and improve

(01:39:42):
the people that love you and thelives of the people around you.
You know what I mean? And like his story really like
like in my darkest moments have like shed light on the fact that
like I haven't fully tried getting better and I'm finally
out of place in my life where like that's important to me and

(01:40:03):
I and I'm trying to show up for that in honor of like those
principles that like I watched him up hold in his life.
You know, because it would be, you know, like, what's what's
the point if if you don't, you know, if you're not willing to
like experience and be here, what's what's the point?

(01:40:26):
I mean, that's always my argument, right?
Like I can't think of like a fucking worst.
I wish I was one of those peopledude who just just became a
fucking drone dude and like thatwas it.
But like I, I can't help but like, I don't want to find
myself at my deathbed and, and be like, Oh, well, I played it
super fucking safe the whole time and didn't, I didn't, I

(01:40:47):
didn't feel anything. It was awesome, right?
And it's like on the other end of that, it's like, well, you
want to temper that against likerunning a fucking muck and
being, you know, a reckless rioton the streets, right?
Like you don't want to be that person either, because then
you're just dealing with the fucking wreckage of that
constantly. And it's like, and it really is
this constant like balancing actof, of like of that which is

(01:41:12):
good. And that's what fucking sucks.
And then just trying to fucking find the middle of the road on
that and, and do the best you fucking can without tipping one
way or the other. Yeah, it's fucking hard bro.
Absolutely. Right, because on top of that,
once you, once you figured it out, you know, Oh yeah, I got
this. The minute you say I got this,
some crazy shit happens, right? And you had a light and you get

(01:41:33):
fucking hit by a garbage truck. Or you're on the plane and
you're not serving drinks, right?
Yeah. It's fucking hard.
Isn't that the beauty beauty of it all though?
That it's hard. Yeah, absolutely.
I don't think it's supposed to be easy, right?
Because everyone, I have conversations with people all

(01:41:55):
the time about, you know, thingsthat are like hard and, and how
the people want to give up on things.
And it's like, but like the thing you're trying to obtain
and the reason you started the journey is because it was hard,
because if it was easy, everyonewould do it, right?
And if everyone would do it, would you want to be a part of
it, Right. And like, some people are like,
yeah, yeah, you do right, All right.
But some people don't. And like in, I don't know, I

(01:42:18):
think it just, it depends on like what you're aligning
yourself with. And if you're aligning with
something that's true to you, then the everything else is just
par for the fucking course, right?
And like, and it just reminds you of the, the, the, the saying
of the if, fuck, how's it go? If we acknowledge the pain that
comes from suffering, then if weacknowledge the love which comes

(01:42:41):
from suffering, then pain is never seen as a punishment,
right? And so it's like it's part of
the fucking deal, bro. I mean, even if you take it back
to like something like Christianity, right, with like
Christ dying on a crossword, buthe out of love, like it wasn't,
it wasn't a painful choice, right?
The suffering was part of the love, right?
When, when parents do things fortheir children out of love or
whatever and like they do the sacrificing and all that stuff,

(01:43:03):
it's like it's a painful choice that comes with the, the duty
and, and, and pride and joy and love that comes with being a
parent, right? And we do with everything,
right. The things that we suffer for
don't feel like suffering and, and they aren't painful because
we love doing it. And the things that we don't, it
fucking sucks. Yeah.

(01:43:27):
How big is God in your life, if at all?
Do you, do you have any spiritual practice?
Was there like during you're going through all of this
fucking craziness, right? Like you're, you're from
childhood to, to now, your shit's all fucked up and turmoil
and there's good times and there's bad times and everything
in between, right? You're like a, like, how do you,

(01:43:50):
how do you contend with like a higher power or a God or a
religion or anything? Do you, you know, especially
somebody who dabbles psychedelics, Like, where did
you sit on that? Did that have any bearing on
your life at all? Absolutely.
And still up until this day, I struggle with it.
I struggle with like, not necessarily like the belief that

(01:44:14):
something out there is is there for me and is loving and is
bigger than me. It's more so like the struggles
I have today are like having a relationship with it because I,
I, my, my experiences in life have have shown me that there's

(01:44:38):
more to, to all of this than just like what meets the eye,
right? There's something at play that
you know, you can't just just like look at entire reality in
life and say there there wasn't something special that happened

(01:44:59):
to make all of this. You know, like it's not, it's
not just like science down to a pin.
I mean, there's a lot of scienceinvolved, but like, you know,
like I know that there's been something consistently there for
me and they're collectively for every everything else, my entire

(01:45:22):
existence here in this in this life, My struggle is just the
relationship with it. And to be honest, like I don't
make as big of an effort as I should.
I don't I don't make that a priority in my life.
And I think I've like, you know,I don't, I don't know if I've,

(01:45:46):
you know, suffered in a different way because I haven't,
because I, I don't know what a true relationship with a God in
my life would look like or feel like, you know, And so I think
like moving forward and I've been talking with like my
partner a lot about this, like her.
And I really about like trying to form a relationship with a

(01:46:10):
higher power that I can actuallylike depend on because like I
can't depend on myself anymore in in ways of like I can depend
on myself to like get up and do do the mandatory things of life.
But like I can't depend on on myself to take care of
everything anymore. To be that like that masculine

(01:46:33):
protector force, you know, because it's just not realistic.
It's not, you know, it can be somuch more fruitful and abundant
with help. You know, I think like realizing
that and like accepting that is like the true path for for me to
like grow into like that role, you know, and I, I hope I can,

(01:47:02):
you know, actually form that relationship soon at some point
more than I already have, you know what I mean?
And I think that relationship isalways there.
I just need to like to listen toit and to like really trust it.
And I think that's where it comes down to it for me is like
the best part. Well, here's a good, here's a
good question to follow up on that then, because I now it

(01:47:23):
actually made me really curious,what do you think is the best
way to to honor or to foster that relationship?
Is to I think. Honoring myself and those around

(01:47:47):
me in alignment with what I knowis is like, right.
Not saying that I'm going to like continue to like always
behave in correct ways, but you know, divine love, energy and

(01:48:11):
divine just like I really think like if, if there is a God,
there's it's empathetic, it's supportive, it's embracing,
it's, it's loving, it's, you know, all those things, it's

(01:48:32):
protective. It's like all those things in
one. And if I can like have a
relationship with myself and show all those qualities to
myself, then I think that relationship will blossom on its
own. And.
The farther, you know, away I get from that and the the more I

(01:48:53):
treat myself bad and and live inunhealthy ways and and really
like foster a negative relationship with self, I think
the farther away from that I'm going to get, regardless of its
existence in my life or if it's always there regardless, you
know, right, You know, I think it's really like the simple

(01:49:16):
steps that come about like love thy neighbor.
It's like so simple down to the T of like be of service.
Yeah. To yourself and to others.
Yeah. Treat people how you want to be
treated, except responsibility. Like fucking definitely tend to

(01:49:38):
like, complicate the shit out ofthings, don't we?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you'd like live on
those like small simple principles, I think that's like
a great starting point for anybody.
Yeah, I'm definitely a firm believer in in like it just
fucking lead with service man. And like, but the kind of
service, not the kind of servicethat you post on Instagram

(01:49:59):
because you did it right. Like the, the kind of service
where you just fucking do it andthere's no, it's a selfless,
fucking thankless job, bro. You just did it because no one
else would fucking do it or, or whatever, right?
Like, yeah. And you're not telling anybody,
you're not posting about it. You're just fucking doing it.
You picked up a piece of trash and threw it in the fucking
trash can because it was the right thing to do, right?
Because you're watching and God is watching and that's it.

(01:50:21):
That's all that matters. That's crazy.
Or you can, or, or you can be a fucking Dick in the world, you
know? You can be an asshole.
You can treat people like where that gets you, you know?
Yeah. Some people, some people, it
gets them really far. Yeah, these retarded trust fund

(01:50:41):
babies on fucking YouTube bro. Yeah.
Or TikTok. Yeah.
Who knows, Like who really knows?
Like all I know from a personal standpoint is that like, I feel
better and the people around me feel better and feel like
there's nothing better than likebeing a good friend or being a
good partner, being a good husband or whatever it is, you

(01:51:04):
know what I mean? Like, and like having that other
person feel loved and supported,you know, I mean that like for
me, like there's like really no other better feeling because
like I know, like how it feels to not be those ways.
And I know how it feels to like,be loved and like be supported.
And if I can be that for other people, that's, that's awesome,

(01:51:24):
man. It's the goal.
It's the goal, bro. It's the goal, you know?
That's success to me, to put it in a nutshell.
Solid. I was going to ask you, but now
I guess I'll ask you a better question as we start to like
wrap things up here. My name, my name.
I'm really curious like if, if life ended for you right now, in

(01:51:44):
this moment, how do you think you'd be remembered?
That's a good question. I feel like in some ways some

(01:52:16):
people would look at my life as unfortunate in a way to where I
never really got to a place of emotional like, you know,
success in in with those around me, right?
A lot of my life, a lot of the people in my life have seen me

(01:52:39):
like put myself through like, just like constant like struggle
and, and suffering and emotionalpain.
And like in reality, it's all done to me by me, right?
A lot of people would, I feel like, Remember Me as being just

(01:53:06):
a good friend, being there for them in most times where a lot
of other people wouldn't. I think I would just be
remembered that as as somebody who like, who tried and like
showed up for others and really like showed the people around me

(01:53:31):
how much I do care and I do lovethem.
That's all I can really ask for.You know what I mean?
That's all I really want to be remembered for is somebody who,
like, cared. I mean, it's solid.

(01:53:53):
I can't say that I can disagree with you on that.
I mean, if you asked me the question, I would have probably
said the same thing about you, about me.
Is that different? I'm fucking.
I have nothing but terrible words for myself.
Sir, in your opinion, what is the most important contribution

(01:54:14):
a man can make to this world before he dies?
Fatherhood because I mean, in reality, the way we father our

(01:54:37):
children is how like our children's futures are going to
be like defined by if we contribute to like creating a
safe place for our children to grow up into, into loving and
experience this like one life. You know what I mean?

(01:54:58):
Like we really, we really are the decision makers, the way we
treat our world, the destructionwe do to it.
You know what I mean? Like in reality, like you see a
lot of kids like, you know, withour problems, especially like
out here in America, like with school shootings and stuff and

(01:55:18):
like right in parenthood and like stuff like that, like
fostering anything really like as a, as a man, it's really
important to be that stable, like teacher, you know?
Right. That's important.
And everything else is like, not, not up to us, not up to man

(01:55:41):
where we're at, you know, the will of the universe.
Yeah, I mean, they're the the troubling with the youth and
whatnot. And especially like young men
and boys, right. Like that's, that's really, it's
kind of been a topic apparently or something.
I don't know, some people swear they don't know anything about

(01:56:02):
what's going on. But do you, do you, do you see
an issue with like young, young,young dudes and, and young men?
And like, is it something to be concerned about?
Is like, I mean, you highlightedthe school shootings and stuff
and it's like we've had some in the past, right?
But it does seem more prevalent now and that's probably maybe

(01:56:26):
like are the least of our worries right now, at least from
my opinion. But from my perspective.
And is there anything that you're kind of like, you see it
happening out there in the worldwith, with young men and boys
and you're just like, why isn't anyone talking about this?
Well, I mean, like, you look at our childhoods, right?

(01:56:49):
You're, you're your age and in the kind of same age bracket as
you in our 30s. And, you know, I grew up a lot
different than kids grow up nowadays.
Yeah. I wasn't like, you know, flooded
with information like kids are these days.
Like we're not. Yeah.

(01:57:11):
You know what I mean? Like it's just social media and
in the Internet really is like opened up so many channels for
like children to see like all like the dark solutions that can
be had. You know what I mean?

(01:57:32):
Right? Literally go on the Internet and
see like a body Cam footage of like people shoot like mass
shootings. You know, right.
You can access all this information like you don't need
a dad to teach you things anymore.
Right. You can just fucking Google
something, you know what I mean?You want to learn?
You just fucking go. Like you don't ask your dad

(01:57:53):
anymore, like you don't fucking have a book, you know what I
mean? Like you just go on your fucking
device that's in your pocket. You got, you got fucking AI to
fucking give you an answer, likeright, you know what I mean?
Like it's crazy. I think there's a YouTube video
called like, Dad, will you teachme?
Yeah. Or some shit, yeah.

(01:58:14):
I think that's like, you know, Idon't know, like the way I raise
my children like hopefully is going to be a lot different than
kids are being raised right now,you know, because like it's so
easy to be manipulated by that. Think for yourself, question

(01:58:34):
authority, right, ask question. But like, what is your
authority? Is it, is it the Internet?
You know what I mean? Like people like see something
online and they just automatically believe it because
it's what there's. Yeah, it's a critical thought,
right? The absence of it.
Yeah, it's just like point A, point B Information,
information, information. It's not like experience,

(01:58:57):
experience, experience. You know what I mean?
Some of my greatest life lessonshave been through just
experience. See, I, I, I think we're pretty
much fucked. I mean, it seems to be, yeah.
Yeah, and it's all right. You know what I mean?
More people are going to die, more people are going to fucking

(01:59:19):
hurt. More people are going to love
more people. I mean, it's the same thing in
like in future generations are just going to look at back and
look at it as stupid as fuck. You know?
There's going to be like, wow, why the fuck did they do that?
What? What were they thinking?
You know? But yeah, I mean, that's just
going to be our part of history.That's really it.

(01:59:41):
You know, our, our generations are like changing history in the
most insane ways. We're the start of it all
technologically at least. So like you look at like 1000
years from now, if we haven't just completely destroyed our
Earth and like there's those generations are still alive and
kicking, you know? Yeah.

(02:00:04):
Any advice or suggestions you can give a young man maybe out
there who's struggling, or maybehe was, he's in your shoes or
you know, or he was in your shoes or vice versa.
Like get on late to your story. Fucking maybe he's just starting
out. Get honest.
The only thing that's always consistently saved me is honesty

(02:00:27):
and how I feel and what I'm doing and how I'm living.
You know, like no secret is too big to hold by yourself,
especially with like some of thestuff that we've talked about on

(02:00:48):
this during this conversation, you know, Yeah, I want to like
embrace the fact that, like anything that's happened to
anybody is, is worth discussing with another person.

(02:01:09):
And if you're, if you're struggling with like, you know,
SI, like I just hope that anybody can like actually have
the strength to just like do your best today, you know, and
then talk to somebody, you know,And if and if you don't have
people to talk to, like in your immediate circle, you know,

(02:01:33):
there are resources, there are people out there that you don't
know that are willing to listen.So.
Yeah. Yeah, and every episode in the
short notes, I put mental healthresources links so that anybody
who's actually struggling with anything and can't find any
information, they can always check out that resource.
And and if they, I mean, AI is agreat tool to maybe find some

(02:01:58):
some numbers or something, you guys can always e-mail the show.
I mean, and I mean, it's we're going to go through the
resources and stuff, but like, yeah, there's information out
there to talk to somebody literally, literally fucking
anybody. Just say, Hey, I need help.
I don't know what the fuck to do.
My shit's fucked. How do I, how do I navigate
this? Yeah, I know for me even like

(02:02:18):
even when times like where I wasstruggling really bad and I
didn't know what else to do, I just went to a fucking a, a
meeting, even if I wasn't or like any kind of anonymous
meeting, like it doesn't matter.Like it's just being around
people and hearing, you know, other faces or seeing other
faces and hearing other problemsand talking to people just

(02:02:39):
fucking helps, man. And then it just kind of opens
another door for, for some, you know, another day.
Absolute, absolute fucking lutely.
Yeah. Is there anything else that
you'd like to share before we start wrapping things up here?
Any anything you got to put out there, any, any plugs, any

(02:03:02):
anything like that? I love you man and and give
everyone, give yourself grace. That's it.
Here's a good question before wefucking call this quits, was
there any anything I didn't ask you during this interview that

(02:03:23):
you wish I did ask you? I don't really like, you know, I
think everything that you asked me was meant to be asked in my

(02:03:44):
own brain. Like I, I don't feel like
anything was left out because like what, what was said on this
conversation was meant to be said.
You know what I mean? In retrospect, like, yeah, I

(02:04:08):
mean, I, I think we, we've always had no conversations and
I, I'd love to do it again. I just let you know.
I'm just proud of you for continuing your your journey and

(02:04:28):
for being the person that you are.
Thank you for thank you for being here, man.
Thanks man, appreciate that means a lot coming from you.
You know what I'm going to do since you're going to be episode
22, actually. Hilarious.
I know it was really weird how that worked out bro.

(02:04:49):
I did I it wasn't planned, it probably just by accident, but
September 1st, bro, I was going to read the daily reflections I
was sent in to you, but yeah, I figured we just fucking read it
out here. If more willingness to grow.
September 1st, if more gifts areto be received, our awakening
has to go on as Bill sees it. Page 8 sobriety fills the pain,

(02:05:15):
the painful quote hole in the soul that my alcoholism created.
Often I feel so physically well that I believe my work is done.
However, joy is not just the absence of pain, it is the gift
of continued spiritual awakening.
Joy comes from ongoing and active study, as well as
application of the principles ofrecovery in everyday life and

(02:05:38):
from sharing that experience with others.
My Higher Power presents many opportunities for deeper
spiritual awakening. I need only to bring into my
recovery the willingness to grow.
Today, I'm ready to grow. Doesn't that slap?
It does slap. What the fuck, dude?

(02:05:58):
Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, thank you for having me.
Thank you so much for being on the show and for sharing your
experience, strength and hope and allowing me to change things
up a little bit here during thisdiscussion.
And I just, I really admire you for all your continued efforts,
your courage and all of your hard work.

(02:06:20):
And I, I hope that the world sees some, some, some sliver of
how special I know that you are and what an incredible human
being friend you are. I wish you all the best on your
best of luck really on your journey.
Ahead, Thank you, man. I love you dearly, and you mean

(02:06:42):
more to me than than you'll everknow.
Appreciate you.

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William – Art and Drugs: Addiction, Clinical Depression, SI, and the Willingness to Preserve

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}William – Art and Drugs: Addiction, Clinical Depression, SI, and the Willingness to Preserve