October 9, 2025 • 36 mins
In this solo reflection, we look at the mind’s “stickiness”—how craving pulls us off-center—and explore nonattachment as freedom, not austerity. Drawing from the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Buddha, and the poets, we unpack the ever-flowing river / ever-full sea image and land it in everyday life: work, family, food, phone use, and the little bargains we make with desire.
In this episode
- Nonattachment vs. renunciation: letting nothing own you
- Why the relief after “retail therapy” comes from the end of wanting, not the thing
- How to be with cravings without white-knuckling (the “just for now” approach)
- Welcoming withdrawals—insomnia, anxiety, vivid dreams—as teachers, not enemies
- The ocean image across traditions: steady in the middle of many rivers
Try this
- Pause the impulse: when a craving hits, wait a few minutes and feel it fully—no negotiating, just noticing
- Choose not now: you don’t need a lifetime vow; postpone once and re-check later
- Be gentle: meet slips with curiosity, not shame; begin again, like a river returning to the sea
Texts & voices referenced
James 1; Ecclesiastes; Jeremiah 17; John 4; the Bhagavad Gita; teachings of the Buddha; Rumi; Meister Eckhart; St. John of the Cross.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jacob (00:02):
It's really not attachment or renunciation, it's
not about owning nothing.
It's about nothing owning you.
Hello, everyone, and welcomeback to the Standing Nowhere
(00:29):
Podcast, a space for real-lifemysticism, an honest reflection
on the human experience.
I am Jacob Buhler, a courier, adad, and a lifelong seeker.
This podcast is about slowingdown, facing our suffering and
joy, and exploring wisdom fromevery tradition, not to escape
(00:52):
life, but to meet it more fully.
So let's take a breath andbegin.
Today I'm going to be talkingabout attachment and desire.
And I wanted to start off bytalking about what attachment
actually is.
The way you can think ofattachment, because this is a
term that was coined by theBuddhists, it's a sort of
(01:15):
stickiness of the mind.
It's our tendency to cling orget stuck on something, what we
want, and resist what we don'twant.
It kind of goes both ways.
It is a it's kind of a desirefor what you don't have or a an
(01:36):
aversion to what you do have.
But in a sticky sense, um, itcan be considered an addiction
to control, whereasnon-attachment is a trusting in
the flow of things.
And you'll hear, I'm sureyou've heard the term
(01:56):
renunciation, and to manyWestern ears, renunciation is
sort of akin to or sounds likeliving the monastic lifestyle as
a monk or a nun or living in acave somewhere, and that's not
what renunciation is.
Renunciation is something thatyou can consider as more of
(02:20):
non-addiction, living fullywithout being enslaved by your
cravings.
It's it's really non-attachmentor renunciation is not about
owning nothing.
It's about nothing owning you.
Think of it in terms of beingattached is grasping, but being
(02:46):
free is to let things come andgo without you losing your
balance.
There's a verse by the brotherof Jesus, his name was James,
where he says, Each person istempted when they are dragged
away by their own desire andenticed.
(03:07):
Then, when that desire hasconceived, it gives birth to
sin.
And sin, when it is full grown,gives birth to death.
Now I want to clarify somethingon that.
When you hear the word sin inmodern times, there's a
(03:28):
connotation that you have donesomething wrong and you should
feel guilty about it and youshould atone and all of that.
But I'm here to say that thatis not what the original
understanding or definition ofsin actually was at the time
that it was spoken.
You see, in Aramaic, and Iforget the word, but sin, even
(03:50):
in Greek as well, is understoodas a directional statement.
In Greek, many of you arefamiliar with the definition
that it means to miss the mark.
And in Aramaic, it was similar.
It was sort of like we've beentalking about with attachment,
where you are, like it says inthe opening of that verse, when
(04:14):
you are tempted, you are draggedaway by your own desire.
And even that word temptationin Aramaic was more akin to like
sort of when you lift somethingup.
Think of when you're eating ameal and you lift something up
with your fork, and there'ssomething attached to it that
comes along with it.
That's what temptation means,is that something is moving in a
(04:37):
direction in life, and you'resort of stuck to it, or sticky
your stickiness of mind isattached to it and dragging you
away with it, as he says inthat, as James says in that
verse.
Now, what happens is when itsays desire has conceived and
gives birth to sin, he's sayingthat like that word is a
(05:01):
directional statement.
So you are essentially notcentered on your being, on the
present moment, that yourawareness is being carried away
by something, like it's stuck toit.
You see how it's attached, it'sin that same line of attachment
as the Buddhists talk about.
(05:23):
And the death that he refers toin that verse is not a literal
death, but more of a spiritualdisconnection, not like divine
punishment, that you aredisconnected from your source.
There's another word, which I'msure you're familiar with,
which is repent.
In Hebrew, that is pronouncedshuv, which means to turn back.
(05:44):
It is also a directionalstatement.
It is a um what's the word I'mlooking for?
Uh another way it's anotherdirectional statement like sin,
where it whereas sin you areoff-centered and carried away
with something, and shoe orrepent is to turn back and come
(06:05):
back to your center again.
So non-attachment is basicallylearning to come home again and
again and again.
That's actually what repent orshoe means to turn back, to come
home, to come back to center.
And we need to talk about theburning of desire.
(06:29):
Because desire, it's a naturalenergy in all of us, but it can
either liberate you or enslaveyou, depending on the type of
desire, and if we follow thatdesire.
So desire is a natural energyin all of us, but depending on
(06:54):
the type, as I mentioned before,it can either liberate or
enslave.
Now, many of you are familiarwith the term nirvana or in the
Pali canon nibana.
Nirvana means to blow out theflame of desire, the flame of
craving.
You can think of it as theexhale after gra after grasping
(07:17):
or uh sort of reaching out hasextinguished.
Think of it as like a sigh ofrelief, like, ah, there's a
verse by John in the NewTestament of the Bible where he
says, Everyone who drinks ofthis water will be thirsty
again, but those who drink ofthe water that I will give them
(07:40):
will never be thirsty.
The water that I will give themwill become in them a spring of
water gushing up to eternallife.
What he's pointing to is athirsting or craving for
external objects and pleasureversus an inner spring of
(08:00):
contentment resting in thecenter of your being, like that
word shoe or repent.
I don't know if some of you areaware of this, but there's
something out there calledshopping therapy or retail
therapy.
When you buy something orpurchase something, you are not
experiencing joy or a cessationof your suffering from the
(08:23):
object itself, but by theextinguishing of the wanting of
the thing.
Like when I was a kid, I usedto, there was a short period of
my life where I would dream ofgetting a Super Nintendo.
I really wanted it.
When I finally got it, sureit's fun, but the happiness that
(08:44):
I got was not from possessingthe object finally, but the
cessation of my desire for thething.
This is echoed in the book ofEcclesiastes, uh, when the
teacher writes, Whatever my eyesdesired, I did not keep from
them.
I kept my heart from nopleasure, and behold, all was
(09:09):
vapor and a chasing after wind.
So the relief essentially comesfrom the end of your craving,
not the object itself.
That is why retail therapy doesnot work, or buying things does
not work.
As you probably noticed, inAmerica, we are rapidly turning
(09:29):
material into junk at a veryextreme pace.
You know, there is thisconsumption or consumer
mentality that when I buy thisthing, then I'll finally be
happy.
But as many of you listeninghave already learned, that is
not the case.
You'll get a temporarycessation of that burning
(09:50):
desire, but that's not realhappiness.
Real happiness comes from thecessation of the desire in the
first place.
One of the big ones that I'vestill struggled with to this day
is energy drinks.
I love to have an energy drinkin the morning when I go out and
drive or start when I used tostart my shift in sales.
I love the taste of an energydrink and the little boost that
(10:13):
it gave me.
I've since let it go.
And it's interesting now, Idon't have any craving or desire
for energy drinks.
So I'm saving money and I stillfeel just as alert in the
morning.
And in fact, the more that I'vebrought awareness to my habit
of energy drinks, I've noticedthat I've actually felt better
(10:37):
not having them.
Because when I did have them,it would increase my
irritability, especially when Ididn't get one on time.
Or the knowledge that I wasspending $150 to $200 a month on
them.
But now that I've dropped that,you know, it's wonderful.
Food is one that I stillstruggle with to this day.
(10:57):
You know, my routine stillinvolves having a pizza at the
end of the day.
Um, beer and uh alcohol was abig one.
I've actually kicked thathabit.
The same thing with cannabis.
I always looked forward to um alittle beer at the end of the
day, not every day, but severaltimes a week.
Cannabis was a daily habit forme, which I've spoken about on
(11:20):
several past episodes.
You guys can go back and hearthat.
I think it was around, I wantto say episode five or six when
I finally kicked the habit ofcannabis.
And when I looked closely at mycannabis use, I noticed that it
was really based on the onavoiding facing the
(11:42):
uncomfortable truth that Ireally missed my son when he
moved out.
I started smoking again, and itwas like six months later that
I finally kicked it when Ifinally sat down to face the
fact that I just missed my son,and I needed to sit with that
and be with that and let thatprocess so that I could kick the
habit once and for all.
(12:04):
Another one that I struggledwith was uh training.
Um I used to back in the daytrain pretty hard three times a
week on the barbell.
Uh some training programs werefive or six days a week, and I
was really obsessed with mynutrition, uh, tracking every
gram of protein, making surethat everything was just
(12:26):
perfectly in line.
You know, you know, smartphonesare another habit that I've
kicked, thankfully.
I simply uninstalled all theapps that didn't have anything
to do with productivity.
I only have work apps on there,uh, things that will actually
benefit my day in some way.
I don't have any social mediainstalled on them.
(12:46):
And I've been all the betterfor it.
And I know a lot of peoplestruggle with that, but we'll
get into that more uh later inthe episode.
But productivity is a big onefor me that I still cling to.
Like this podcast is an exampleof a good desire or a good
motivation to push me towardssomething productive that will
(13:07):
help other people.
However, it can quickly devolveinto something that I am
clinging or attached to in termsof it being perfect.
I have had periods where I feltthe compulsion to go back and
edit past episodes to make themmore perfect.
(13:30):
Because in the beginning, Ididn't know anything about
editing or how to edit really.
You know, the first episode Idid was aptly named I Don't Know
What I'm Doing.
And at the time I had no cluehow to edit the podcast, just
the basics of getting itpublished and getting it out
there.
And now that I do, I've hadthis temptation to go back and
edit, which I think isappropriate, but there's this
(13:51):
fine line between clinging toperfection and not being
attached to the product beingperfect, that I can put my
authentic voice out there, trustthat it's okay that it's not
perfect, and move on.
But there's this passage in uhJeremiah, which talks about
(14:17):
blessed are those who trust inYahweh.
They shall be like a treeplanted by water, sending out
its roots by the stream.
It shall not fear when heatcomes, and its leaves shall stay
green.
In the year of drought, it isnot anxious, and it does not
cease to bear fruit.
(14:38):
And I love that verse becausethe opening line says, Blessed
are those who trust in Yahweh.
Yahweh is a word that means Iam, to be, to exist.
So that opening line is sort ofsaying those who trust in their
being.
You know, you can personify itas a Lord figure, or if you
choose not to use that language,that's fine.
(14:59):
Substitute that with your ownbeing.
It's the same thing.
Blessed are those who trust inbeing.
This points to not seekingexternal objects to make you
happy, or that you can trust into bring you happiness, that you
are planted in the here andnow.
And this points also to or thistrust in our being is at the
(15:31):
core of one of the reasons thatwe do suffer.
Because when we are attached tothat which is impermanent, that
is that which is outside of ourbeing, we experience suffering.
So you can't hold on toanything.
That's a recurring theme, I'msure that you guys have noticed
(15:51):
on this podcast is to let go.
Let things come to you and letthem go when it's their time to
go.
Uh, there's a saying in the uhin in Buddhism as well that's
whatever is the object of yourattachment brings suffering when
it changes or ends.
So learn to let it flow intoyour life and flow out of your
(16:14):
life.
You know, this is echoed in thebook of Ecclesiastes where uh
one of the opening lines says,Vapor of vapors, says the
teacher, a generation goes and ageneration comes, but the earth
remains forever.
That word vanity or vapor is ahevil.
(16:36):
It's an old Hebrew word thatmeans vapor, breath, something
that's transient, not permanent.
In Buddhism, I believe the wordis anika or anica, which means
impermanence.
Everything comes and everythinggoes.
But this is not this iscommonly understood in modern
(16:57):
times as sort of a downer ordepressing verse, but it what
it's really saying is thateverything is so valuable and
wonderful and exquisiteprecisely because it is
fleeting.
If everything lasted forever,nothing would matter.
(17:18):
This is a fundamental truth ofthe universe, of existence.
Nothing lasts.
And it's precisely becausenothing lasts that everything is
so wonderful.
These are different scriptures,but they're the same breath.
And I like to highlightdifferent traditions because
(17:40):
it's so wonderful to heardifferent thinkers from
different time periods indifferent parts of the world all
pointing to the same truth.
And we can have we canexperiment in letting go, and
this is a great way to practiceletting go, doing little small
(18:04):
experiments every day.
For example, I'm really hookedon ice cream.
I love ice cream at the end ofthe day.
I have been buying those littlecartons for like two or three
or two or three bucks you findat the grocery store, and it's
just enough where you can eathalf and not feel too guilty or
(18:25):
the whole thing if you're reallyhaving a tough day.
But one of the experiments youcan do is find something that
you really crave on a dailybasis that you might feel that
you're attached to, and delaythe craving just for a few
minutes.
Just before you want to takepart in it.
Say maybe you scroll too muchon your phone.
(18:46):
But before you open your phoneto look at it, just delay it for
a few minutes and sit with thatdesire.
Bring your awareness to thedesire for the thing that you
want, the thing that you may beattached to.
Just for a few moments and sitwith the desire.
(19:08):
Notice the desire.
What does it feel like withoutputting it into words?
Be mindful over um be mindfulover the entire feeling, top to
bottom.
What is it what does it reallyfeel like to want this thing?
Just sit with that.
(19:29):
And and perhaps you want tomake a declaration that you're
not gonna do it for the day.
Just for that day, say, I'm notgonna scroll on my phone, and
I'm gonna I'm gonna have acuriosity mind.
What does it feel like to wantto do this thing and not do it?
And don't fight or resist thefeeling, just embrace it
(19:53):
completely.
There's a strategy by uh AlanWatts, which I really love and
really helped me as well, whichis to not tell the devil your
plans.
In other words, don't tellyourself your own plans.
Maybe just a little bit.
Don't say to yourself, I wantto permanently give up ice cream
(20:14):
for the rest of my life, or Iwant to permanently give up
scrolling on social media therest of my life.
Don't do that.
Because when you do that, thedevil will immediately, or your
mind will immediately say toyou, okay, you want to give up
scrolling, huh?
Well, guess what?
You're gonna have to give it upfor thousand hundreds of days
to get through the rest of thisyear to make good on that, or
(20:34):
thousands of days for the restof your life.
Instead, just say, just notnow.
Just for right now, I'm notgonna do it.
And and really authentically,you know, don't say to yourself,
I'm I'm not just gonna give itup right now.
I'm actually gonna give it upmy whole life, but I'm just
telling money.
Don't go through that mental,just say, literally, right now,
(20:57):
I'm not gonna do it, and that'sit.
Just right now.
And notice how long the desirelasts and fades away.
And you might notice that, wow,it's gone.
I don't even want to browse myphone anymore.
And before long, it's a habit.
But use that strategy just fornow.
(21:18):
Just for today, I'm not gonnadrink.
Just for today, I'm not gonnahave cannabis.
And play with those otherexperiments as well.
If you do indulge, be mindfulof it.
You know, when I was giving upcannabis and struggling with
giving it up, I would bring myawareness into it, you know, as
I would pack the bowl, take thehit.
(21:40):
How did I feel after indulging?
Did I feel any better?
My mindfulness was all over theplace.
I would lose myself inthoughts, all kinds of anxiety.
I was mindful the next day,noticing how my anxiety would
increase.
It didn't feel good.
(22:00):
I valued being aware and beingcentered and being mindful more
than the temporary pleasureboost that cannabis was giving
me.
And I gave it up.
And when I gave it up, Ibefriended my withdrawals.
And this is something that Itold uh to somebody on Reddit
(22:22):
online a few months or yearsago, and they said it actually
helped them immensely and togive up cannabis use as well.
And I my comment got a ton ofupvotes.
So this is something I want totell you guys as well.
Another strategy is to befriendly with your withdrawals.
Choose curiosity over judgment.
(22:43):
Awareness itself is thefreedom.
So when you, let's say you'retrying to quit cannabis like I
was, some of the withdrawalsthat I had was insomnia.
It was really hard for me toget to sleep at night.
Really hard.
And sometimes when I'd getasleep, I'd wake up in the
middle of the night and Icouldn't get back to sleep, or
(23:04):
I'd have vivid dreams, or I'dhave increased anxiety the next
day.
My my my withdrawals are not assevere as some uh more heavy
users, but they were stillthere.
Same thing with drinking.
I look forward to that at theend of the day.
Take the edge off, have a drinkor two.
Alcohol is something that muchmore people use, so maybe you
can relate to that.
(23:25):
But I would be I would befriendmy withdrawals.
You know, I wasn't laying thereat night tossing and turning,
like, oh, I can't get to sleep,gosh darn it.
Yeah.
No.
Insomnia is present.
Hello, insomnia.
Please come in.
(23:46):
Won't you have some tea?
Make yourself comfortable.
Oh, heightened anxiety for afew days.
Hello, anxiety.
How are you?
This is what anxiety feelslike.
How curious.
Don't resist your withdrawals.
Embrace them and remember thebigger picture that you you are
(24:09):
aiming to be free of theseclingings, these attachments
that are stuck to you.
That you are centered, that youhave turned back, come home,
and welcome in theseuncomfortable feelings.
Because, as we've been talkingabout, nothing is permanent.
(24:29):
These will not last.
They will come, they will stayfor a while.
Insomnia will stay for a while,a burning desire to have
another drink, it will stay fora while.
Don't turn away from it.
Face it directly, not in aconfrontation, but as a
welcoming, a curiosity, afriend, and before you know it,
(24:51):
it will leave you.
It will leave you in peace.
Now when you are free and youhave unconditioned yourself from
these things, there is a peacethat will wash over you, and
(25:13):
there is a convergence ofscripture that I wanted to point
out from three different timeperiods and sources across these
scriptures there's this imagewhich I found really fascinating
of an ocean.
It just kept appearing, and I Ihad to mention it.
Not just as nature poetry, butas a map of our consciousness.
(25:36):
And the first is also fromEcclesiastes.
It says all rivers run into thesea, yet the sea is not full.
Unto the place from whence therivers come, thither they return
again.
(25:57):
So you see, this this Hebrewsage is watching the futility of
grasping.
It is awareness withoutsugarcoating.
Watching the flow, theimpermanence of everything.
(26:17):
Everything is flowing,everything is changing.
There's no point in graspingit.
Let it flow.
This is echoed again by Krishnain the Bhagavad Gita.
Same imagery.
He says, as rivers enter theever full sea, yet it remains
(26:41):
unmoved.
He attains peace, not the onewho strives to satisfy desire.
So he's turning the awarenessinto a discipline of
non-attachment, steadiness amidthe inflow.
I love how these imagesconnect.
(27:06):
So this this third one is fromthe Buddha, which says just as
the great ocean stands unmovedthrough countless rivers pour
into it, so too the mind of thenoble disciple who has realized
the Dhamma remains unshaken.
(27:27):
So the Buddha here is showingwhat it feels like when
non-attachment ripens intofreedom.
Awakening that calm depthinside of you.
This shows that perhaps peaceis not the absence of these
(27:50):
flowing rivers, but the depththat can receive them all.
The spaciousness that I talkabout on all of these episodes
that you cultivate insideyourself.
Can you make space for allthese desires?
Let them flow in and out.
This is echoed by the Christianmystics.
(28:11):
Meister Eckhart, he says to befull of things is to be empty of
God.
To be empty of things is to befull of God.
Saint John of the Cross echoesthis as well, another Christian
mystic.
He says, the soul that isattached to anything, however
(28:36):
good, will not attain thefreedom of divine union.
And it's very important toemphasize that to overcome these
attachments, you need to bringa gentle release.
(28:58):
We talked about thoseexperiments before, but do it
with gentleness, non-judgment,and your being, and that depth
inside you will open up toembrace them all.
Simple methods, you know,noticing, pausing, breathing,
(29:21):
showing gratitude even when youfail.
As I mentioned earlier, I amstill struggling with things.
Yes, I've quit alcohol andcannabis, and I have no desire
for them anymore.
Yay, that's great, but I stillstruggle with other things, but
I don't beat myself up about it.
(29:42):
I don't judge myself for beingstill clinging to it.
I see it, I smile at it, and Istart again.
And today, I'm just putting itout there I am going to start to
try to break away.
From these habits of ice creamand frozen pizza.
(30:03):
I'm gonna try to eat better atthe end of my day.
Because I eat healthy usuallyfor the first or most of the
day, and the end of the day iswhere I struggle.
Because I'm I gotta tell you, Iam coming off um really intense
work days this episode 63hours.
Crazy.
(30:28):
Well, I'm not addicted topeace, but i it's something that
you can cling to.
(30:48):
I had a moment where after uh Ifinished a meditation, was it
yesterday?
I have a picture of Jesus andMaharaji or Neem Karoli Baba on
my puja table, and in betweenthe two photos, I saw a little
green bird, and he was justlooking up at me, dancing and
(31:09):
playing, and I just had thisdeep gratitude for the peace
that I have been cultivating inmyself.
And then my day proceeded tosort of kick me and prod me.
And this episode I'm trying toplan in a 63-hour work week, you
know.
So I have to be gentle.
I can't cling even to peace orthe ability to plan episodes
(31:32):
like I want to, or that thisepisode will even be good.
I can't cling to that idea orbe attached to it.
I have to understand that I'mgonna do my best, and it may not
come out all right.
And it's difficult for me.
These are things that I stillstruggle with.
I want each episode to be thebest it can be, to see if it can
reach out and help someone.
(31:53):
And at the same time, I have tomake sure that I don't cling to
the podcast as an idol, if youwill, where the purpose of the
podcast becomes the podcastitself, where I become obsessed
with views and getting likes orshares or whatever.
This has to remain a genuinespace for not only myself to
(32:17):
share struggles that I gothrough, but also people
listening or people that Iinterview, for them to have a
genuine space to share theirexperiences in life and how they
are continuing the strugglewith them or how they overcame
them, spiritual practices, etcetera.
So I am not perfect.
(32:39):
I am still going through theseongoing struggles, and I want to
really hammer home that it'simportant that you be gentle
with yourself as you try torelease these things.
Use the experiments that I gaveyou before, but do it with
gentleness.
That noticing, you know, thatbreathing, gratitude, even when
(33:02):
you fail, just smile at it.
Keep keep starting again.
I may not succeed in quittingmy ice cream habit.
I'm just putting it out therenow.
I'll give you updates on thenext episodes if I'm able to.
So remember that as we movetowards the finish line here,
(33:26):
that happiness does not arisefrom getting what you desire.
It arises from the ceasing ofthe desire itself.
So don't chase after happinessby external objects.
Instead, shift your awarenessto that desire in the first
(33:50):
place.
And you'll start to notice thedifference between healthy
desires, like wanting to start apodcast that will help others,
or you know, um taking up ahealthy hobby versus the the the
burning desires, the lust forthis or that, the greed,
(34:11):
awareness.
So I'm gonna close out with uhreading from uh Rumi and Paul,
but before I do, uh if thisepisode gave you a little space
or a little piece or helped yousee life a little bit
differently, I'd love it if youcould follow the show and share
(34:35):
it with one friend who mightneed it.
It really helps this um findthe people who could use a
breath.
So to close out, I want to readto you a poem from Rumi.
It says, When I run after whatI think I want, my days are a
(34:58):
furnace of stress and anxiety.
If I sit in my own place ofpatience, what I need flows to
me and without pain.
From this I understand thatwhat I want also wants me, is
(35:21):
looking for me and attractingme.
There is a great secret herefor anyone who can grasp it.
And a man named Paul wrote thisfrom his prison cell.
He says, I have learned to becontent with whatever I have.
(35:45):
I know what it is to havelittle, and I know what it is to
have plenty.
In any and all circumstances, Ihave learned the secret of
being well fed and of goinghungry, of having plenty and of
(36:06):
being in need.
I can do all things through himwho strengthens me.
It's really not attachment or renunciation, it's
not about owning nothing.
It's about nothing owning you.
Hello, everyone, and welcomeback to the Standing Nowhere
(00:29):
Podcast, a space for real-lifemysticism, an honest reflection
on the human experience.
I am Jacob Buhler, a courier, adad, and a lifelong seeker.
This podcast is about slowingdown, facing our suffering and
joy, and exploring wisdom fromevery tradition, not to escape
(00:52):
life, but to meet it more fully.
So let's take a breath andbegin.
Today I'm going to be talkingabout attachment and desire.
And I wanted to start off bytalking about what attachment
actually is.
The way you can think ofattachment, because this is a
term that was coined by theBuddhists, it's a sort of
(01:15):
stickiness of the mind.
It's our tendency to cling orget stuck on something, what we
want, and resist what we don'twant.
It kind of goes both ways.
It is a it's kind of a desirefor what you don't have or a an
(01:36):
aversion to what you do have.
But in a sticky sense, um, itcan be considered an addiction
to control, whereasnon-attachment is a trusting in
the flow of things.
And you'll hear, I'm sureyou've heard the term
(01:56):
renunciation, and to manyWestern ears, renunciation is
sort of akin to or sounds likeliving the monastic lifestyle as
a monk or a nun or living in acave somewhere, and that's not
what renunciation is.
Renunciation is something thatyou can consider as more of
(02:20):
non-addiction, living fullywithout being enslaved by your
cravings.
It's it's really non-attachmentor renunciation is not about
owning nothing.
It's about nothing owning you.
Think of it in terms of beingattached is grasping, but being
(02:46):
free is to let things come andgo without you losing your
balance.
There's a verse by the brotherof Jesus, his name was James,
where he says, Each person istempted when they are dragged
away by their own desire andenticed.
(03:07):
Then, when that desire hasconceived, it gives birth to
sin.
And sin, when it is full grown,gives birth to death.
Now I want to clarify somethingon that.
When you hear the word sin inmodern times, there's a
(03:28):
connotation that you have donesomething wrong and you should
feel guilty about it and youshould atone and all of that.
But I'm here to say that thatis not what the original
understanding or definition ofsin actually was at the time
that it was spoken.
You see, in Aramaic, and Iforget the word, but sin, even
(03:50):
in Greek as well, is understoodas a directional statement.
In Greek, many of you arefamiliar with the definition
that it means to miss the mark.
And in Aramaic, it was similar.
It was sort of like we've beentalking about with attachment,
where you are, like it says inthe opening of that verse, when
(04:14):
you are tempted, you are draggedaway by your own desire.
And even that word temptationin Aramaic was more akin to like
sort of when you lift somethingup.
Think of when you're eating ameal and you lift something up
with your fork, and there'ssomething attached to it that
comes along with it.
That's what temptation means,is that something is moving in a
(04:37):
direction in life, and you'resort of stuck to it, or sticky
your stickiness of mind isattached to it and dragging you
away with it, as he says inthat, as James says in that
verse.
Now, what happens is when itsays desire has conceived and
gives birth to sin, he's sayingthat like that word is a
(05:01):
directional statement.
So you are essentially notcentered on your being, on the
present moment, that yourawareness is being carried away
by something, like it's stuck toit.
You see how it's attached, it'sin that same line of attachment
as the Buddhists talk about.
(05:23):
And the death that he refers toin that verse is not a literal
death, but more of a spiritualdisconnection, not like divine
punishment, that you aredisconnected from your source.
There's another word, which I'msure you're familiar with,
which is repent.
In Hebrew, that is pronouncedshuv, which means to turn back.
(05:44):
It is also a directionalstatement.
It is a um what's the word I'mlooking for?
Uh another way it's anotherdirectional statement like sin,
where it whereas sin you areoff-centered and carried away
with something, and shoe orrepent is to turn back and come
(06:05):
back to your center again.
So non-attachment is basicallylearning to come home again and
again and again.
That's actually what repent orshoe means to turn back, to come
home, to come back to center.
And we need to talk about theburning of desire.
(06:29):
Because desire, it's a naturalenergy in all of us, but it can
either liberate you or enslaveyou, depending on the type of
desire, and if we follow thatdesire.
So desire is a natural energyin all of us, but depending on
(06:54):
the type, as I mentioned before,it can either liberate or
enslave.
Now, many of you are familiarwith the term nirvana or in the
Pali canon nibana.
Nirvana means to blow out theflame of desire, the flame of
craving.
You can think of it as theexhale after gra after grasping
(07:17):
or uh sort of reaching out hasextinguished.
Think of it as like a sigh ofrelief, like, ah, there's a
verse by John in the NewTestament of the Bible where he
says, Everyone who drinks ofthis water will be thirsty
again, but those who drink ofthe water that I will give them
(07:40):
will never be thirsty.
The water that I will give themwill become in them a spring of
water gushing up to eternallife.
What he's pointing to is athirsting or craving for
external objects and pleasureversus an inner spring of
(08:00):
contentment resting in thecenter of your being, like that
word shoe or repent.
I don't know if some of you areaware of this, but there's
something out there calledshopping therapy or retail
therapy.
When you buy something orpurchase something, you are not
experiencing joy or a cessationof your suffering from the
(08:23):
object itself, but by theextinguishing of the wanting of
the thing.
Like when I was a kid, I usedto, there was a short period of
my life where I would dream ofgetting a Super Nintendo.
I really wanted it.
When I finally got it, sureit's fun, but the happiness that
(08:44):
I got was not from possessingthe object finally, but the
cessation of my desire for thething.
This is echoed in the book ofEcclesiastes, uh, when the
teacher writes, Whatever my eyesdesired, I did not keep from
them.
I kept my heart from nopleasure, and behold, all was
(09:09):
vapor and a chasing after wind.
So the relief essentially comesfrom the end of your craving,
not the object itself.
That is why retail therapy doesnot work, or buying things does
not work.
As you probably noticed, inAmerica, we are rapidly turning
(09:29):
material into junk at a veryextreme pace.
You know, there is thisconsumption or consumer
mentality that when I buy thisthing, then I'll finally be
happy.
But as many of you listeninghave already learned, that is
not the case.
You'll get a temporarycessation of that burning
(09:50):
desire, but that's not realhappiness.
Real happiness comes from thecessation of the desire in the
first place.
One of the big ones that I'vestill struggled with to this day
is energy drinks.
I love to have an energy drinkin the morning when I go out and
drive or start when I used tostart my shift in sales.
I love the taste of an energydrink and the little boost that
(10:13):
it gave me.
I've since let it go.
And it's interesting now, Idon't have any craving or desire
for energy drinks.
So I'm saving money and I stillfeel just as alert in the
morning.
And in fact, the more that I'vebrought awareness to my habit
of energy drinks, I've noticedthat I've actually felt better
(10:37):
not having them.
Because when I did have them,it would increase my
irritability, especially when Ididn't get one on time.
Or the knowledge that I wasspending $150 to $200 a month on
them.
But now that I've dropped that,you know, it's wonderful.
Food is one that I stillstruggle with to this day.
(10:57):
You know, my routine stillinvolves having a pizza at the
end of the day.
Um, beer and uh alcohol was abig one.
I've actually kicked thathabit.
The same thing with cannabis.
I always looked forward to um alittle beer at the end of the
day, not every day, but severaltimes a week.
Cannabis was a daily habit forme, which I've spoken about on
(11:20):
several past episodes.
You guys can go back and hearthat.
I think it was around, I wantto say episode five or six when
I finally kicked the habit ofcannabis.
And when I looked closely at mycannabis use, I noticed that it
was really based on the onavoiding facing the
(11:42):
uncomfortable truth that Ireally missed my son when he
moved out.
I started smoking again, and itwas like six months later that
I finally kicked it when Ifinally sat down to face the
fact that I just missed my son,and I needed to sit with that
and be with that and let thatprocess so that I could kick the
habit once and for all.
(12:04):
Another one that I struggledwith was uh training.
Um I used to back in the daytrain pretty hard three times a
week on the barbell.
Uh some training programs werefive or six days a week, and I
was really obsessed with mynutrition, uh, tracking every
gram of protein, making surethat everything was just
(12:26):
perfectly in line.
You know, you know, smartphonesare another habit that I've
kicked, thankfully.
I simply uninstalled all theapps that didn't have anything
to do with productivity.
I only have work apps on there,uh, things that will actually
benefit my day in some way.
I don't have any social mediainstalled on them.
(12:46):
And I've been all the betterfor it.
And I know a lot of peoplestruggle with that, but we'll
get into that more uh later inthe episode.
But productivity is a big onefor me that I still cling to.
Like this podcast is an exampleof a good desire or a good
motivation to push me towardssomething productive that will
(13:07):
help other people.
However, it can quickly devolveinto something that I am
clinging or attached to in termsof it being perfect.
I have had periods where I feltthe compulsion to go back and
edit past episodes to make themmore perfect.
(13:30):
Because in the beginning, Ididn't know anything about
editing or how to edit really.
You know, the first episode Idid was aptly named I Don't Know
What I'm Doing.
And at the time I had no cluehow to edit the podcast, just
the basics of getting itpublished and getting it out
there.
And now that I do, I've hadthis temptation to go back and
edit, which I think isappropriate, but there's this
(13:51):
fine line between clinging toperfection and not being
attached to the product beingperfect, that I can put my
authentic voice out there, trustthat it's okay that it's not
perfect, and move on.
But there's this passage in uhJeremiah, which talks about
(14:17):
blessed are those who trust inYahweh.
They shall be like a treeplanted by water, sending out
its roots by the stream.
It shall not fear when heatcomes, and its leaves shall stay
green.
In the year of drought, it isnot anxious, and it does not
cease to bear fruit.
(14:38):
And I love that verse becausethe opening line says, Blessed
are those who trust in Yahweh.
Yahweh is a word that means Iam, to be, to exist.
So that opening line is sort ofsaying those who trust in their
being.
You know, you can personify itas a Lord figure, or if you
choose not to use that language,that's fine.
(14:59):
Substitute that with your ownbeing.
It's the same thing.
Blessed are those who trust inbeing.
This points to not seekingexternal objects to make you
happy, or that you can trust into bring you happiness, that you
are planted in the here andnow.
And this points also to or thistrust in our being is at the
(15:31):
core of one of the reasons thatwe do suffer.
Because when we are attached tothat which is impermanent, that
is that which is outside of ourbeing, we experience suffering.
So you can't hold on toanything.
That's a recurring theme, I'msure that you guys have noticed
(15:51):
on this podcast is to let go.
Let things come to you and letthem go when it's their time to
go.
Uh, there's a saying in the uhin in Buddhism as well that's
whatever is the object of yourattachment brings suffering when
it changes or ends.
So learn to let it flow intoyour life and flow out of your
(16:14):
life.
You know, this is echoed in thebook of Ecclesiastes where uh
one of the opening lines says,Vapor of vapors, says the
teacher, a generation goes and ageneration comes, but the earth
remains forever.
That word vanity or vapor is ahevil.
(16:36):
It's an old Hebrew word thatmeans vapor, breath, something
that's transient, not permanent.
In Buddhism, I believe the wordis anika or anica, which means
impermanence.
Everything comes and everythinggoes.
But this is not this iscommonly understood in modern
(16:57):
times as sort of a downer ordepressing verse, but it what
it's really saying is thateverything is so valuable and
wonderful and exquisiteprecisely because it is
fleeting.
If everything lasted forever,nothing would matter.
(17:18):
This is a fundamental truth ofthe universe, of existence.
Nothing lasts.
And it's precisely becausenothing lasts that everything is
so wonderful.
These are different scriptures,but they're the same breath.
And I like to highlightdifferent traditions because
(17:40):
it's so wonderful to heardifferent thinkers from
different time periods indifferent parts of the world all
pointing to the same truth.
And we can have we canexperiment in letting go, and
this is a great way to practiceletting go, doing little small
(18:04):
experiments every day.
For example, I'm really hookedon ice cream.
I love ice cream at the end ofthe day.
I have been buying those littlecartons for like two or three
or two or three bucks you findat the grocery store, and it's
just enough where you can eathalf and not feel too guilty or
(18:25):
the whole thing if you're reallyhaving a tough day.
But one of the experiments youcan do is find something that
you really crave on a dailybasis that you might feel that
you're attached to, and delaythe craving just for a few
minutes.
Just before you want to takepart in it.
Say maybe you scroll too muchon your phone.
(18:46):
But before you open your phoneto look at it, just delay it for
a few minutes and sit with thatdesire.
Bring your awareness to thedesire for the thing that you
want, the thing that you may beattached to.
Just for a few moments and sitwith the desire.
(19:08):
Notice the desire.
What does it feel like withoutputting it into words?
Be mindful over um be mindfulover the entire feeling, top to
bottom.
What is it what does it reallyfeel like to want this thing?
Just sit with that.
(19:29):
And and perhaps you want tomake a declaration that you're
not gonna do it for the day.
Just for that day, say, I'm notgonna scroll on my phone, and
I'm gonna I'm gonna have acuriosity mind.
What does it feel like to wantto do this thing and not do it?
And don't fight or resist thefeeling, just embrace it
(19:53):
completely.
There's a strategy by uh AlanWatts, which I really love and
really helped me as well, whichis to not tell the devil your
plans.
In other words, don't tellyourself your own plans.
Maybe just a little bit.
Don't say to yourself, I wantto permanently give up ice cream
(20:14):
for the rest of my life, or Iwant to permanently give up
scrolling on social media therest of my life.
Don't do that.
Because when you do that, thedevil will immediately, or your
mind will immediately say toyou, okay, you want to give up
scrolling, huh?
Well, guess what?
You're gonna have to give it upfor thousand hundreds of days
to get through the rest of thisyear to make good on that, or
(20:34):
thousands of days for the restof your life.
Instead, just say, just notnow.
Just for right now, I'm notgonna do it.
And and really authentically,you know, don't say to yourself,
I'm I'm not just gonna give itup right now.
I'm actually gonna give it upmy whole life, but I'm just
telling money.
Don't go through that mental,just say, literally, right now,
(20:57):
I'm not gonna do it, and that'sit.
Just right now.
And notice how long the desirelasts and fades away.
And you might notice that, wow,it's gone.
I don't even want to browse myphone anymore.
And before long, it's a habit.
But use that strategy just fornow.
(21:18):
Just for today, I'm not gonnadrink.
Just for today, I'm not gonnahave cannabis.
And play with those otherexperiments as well.
If you do indulge, be mindfulof it.
You know, when I was giving upcannabis and struggling with
giving it up, I would bring myawareness into it, you know, as
I would pack the bowl, take thehit.
(21:40):
How did I feel after indulging?
Did I feel any better?
My mindfulness was all over theplace.
I would lose myself inthoughts, all kinds of anxiety.
I was mindful the next day,noticing how my anxiety would
increase.
It didn't feel good.
(22:00):
I valued being aware and beingcentered and being mindful more
than the temporary pleasureboost that cannabis was giving
me.
And I gave it up.
And when I gave it up, Ibefriended my withdrawals.
And this is something that Itold uh to somebody on Reddit
(22:22):
online a few months or yearsago, and they said it actually
helped them immensely and togive up cannabis use as well.
And I my comment got a ton ofupvotes.
So this is something I want totell you guys as well.
Another strategy is to befriendly with your withdrawals.
Choose curiosity over judgment.
(22:43):
Awareness itself is thefreedom.
So when you, let's say you'retrying to quit cannabis like I
was, some of the withdrawalsthat I had was insomnia.
It was really hard for me toget to sleep at night.
Really hard.
And sometimes when I'd getasleep, I'd wake up in the
middle of the night and Icouldn't get back to sleep, or
(23:04):
I'd have vivid dreams, or I'dhave increased anxiety the next
day.
My my my withdrawals are not assevere as some uh more heavy
users, but they were stillthere.
Same thing with drinking.
I look forward to that at theend of the day.
Take the edge off, have a drinkor two.
Alcohol is something that muchmore people use, so maybe you
can relate to that.
(23:25):
But I would be I would befriendmy withdrawals.
You know, I wasn't laying thereat night tossing and turning,
like, oh, I can't get to sleep,gosh darn it.
Yeah.
No.
Insomnia is present.
Hello, insomnia.
Please come in.
(23:46):
Won't you have some tea?
Make yourself comfortable.
Oh, heightened anxiety for afew days.
Hello, anxiety.
How are you?
This is what anxiety feelslike.
How curious.
Don't resist your withdrawals.
Embrace them and remember thebigger picture that you you are
(24:09):
aiming to be free of theseclingings, these attachments
that are stuck to you.
That you are centered, that youhave turned back, come home,
and welcome in theseuncomfortable feelings.
Because, as we've been talkingabout, nothing is permanent.
(24:29):
These will not last.
They will come, they will stayfor a while.
Insomnia will stay for a while,a burning desire to have
another drink, it will stay fora while.
Don't turn away from it.
Face it directly, not in aconfrontation, but as a
welcoming, a curiosity, afriend, and before you know it,
(24:51):
it will leave you.
It will leave you in peace.
Now when you are free and youhave unconditioned yourself from
these things, there is a peacethat will wash over you, and
(25:13):
there is a convergence ofscripture that I wanted to point
out from three different timeperiods and sources across these
scriptures there's this imagewhich I found really fascinating
of an ocean.
It just kept appearing, and I Ihad to mention it.
Not just as nature poetry, butas a map of our consciousness.
(25:36):
And the first is also fromEcclesiastes.
It says all rivers run into thesea, yet the sea is not full.
Unto the place from whence therivers come, thither they return
again.
(25:57):
So you see, this this Hebrewsage is watching the futility of
grasping.
It is awareness withoutsugarcoating.
Watching the flow, theimpermanence of everything.
(26:17):
Everything is flowing,everything is changing.
There's no point in graspingit.
Let it flow.
This is echoed again by Krishnain the Bhagavad Gita.
Same imagery.
He says, as rivers enter theever full sea, yet it remains
(26:41):
unmoved.
He attains peace, not the onewho strives to satisfy desire.
So he's turning the awarenessinto a discipline of
non-attachment, steadiness amidthe inflow.
I love how these imagesconnect.
(27:06):
So this this third one is fromthe Buddha, which says just as
the great ocean stands unmovedthrough countless rivers pour
into it, so too the mind of thenoble disciple who has realized
the Dhamma remains unshaken.
(27:27):
So the Buddha here is showingwhat it feels like when
non-attachment ripens intofreedom.
Awakening that calm depthinside of you.
This shows that perhaps peaceis not the absence of these
(27:50):
flowing rivers, but the depththat can receive them all.
The spaciousness that I talkabout on all of these episodes
that you cultivate insideyourself.
Can you make space for allthese desires?
Let them flow in and out.
This is echoed by the Christianmystics.
(28:11):
Meister Eckhart, he says to befull of things is to be empty of
God.
To be empty of things is to befull of God.
Saint John of the Cross echoesthis as well, another Christian
mystic.
He says, the soul that isattached to anything, however
(28:36):
good, will not attain thefreedom of divine union.
And it's very important toemphasize that to overcome these
attachments, you need to bringa gentle release.
(28:58):
We talked about thoseexperiments before, but do it
with gentleness, non-judgment,and your being, and that depth
inside you will open up toembrace them all.
Simple methods, you know,noticing, pausing, breathing,
(29:21):
showing gratitude even when youfail.
As I mentioned earlier, I amstill struggling with things.
Yes, I've quit alcohol andcannabis, and I have no desire
for them anymore.
Yay, that's great, but I stillstruggle with other things, but
I don't beat myself up about it.
(29:42):
I don't judge myself for beingstill clinging to it.
I see it, I smile at it, and Istart again.
And today, I'm just putting itout there I am going to start to
try to break away.
From these habits of ice creamand frozen pizza.
(30:03):
I'm gonna try to eat better atthe end of my day.
Because I eat healthy usuallyfor the first or most of the
day, and the end of the day iswhere I struggle.
Because I'm I gotta tell you, Iam coming off um really intense
work days this episode 63hours.
Crazy.
(30:28):
Well, I'm not addicted topeace, but i it's something that
you can cling to.
(30:48):
I had a moment where after uh Ifinished a meditation, was it
yesterday?
I have a picture of Jesus andMaharaji or Neem Karoli Baba on
my puja table, and in betweenthe two photos, I saw a little
green bird, and he was justlooking up at me, dancing and
(31:09):
playing, and I just had thisdeep gratitude for the peace
that I have been cultivating inmyself.
And then my day proceeded tosort of kick me and prod me.
And this episode I'm trying toplan in a 63-hour work week, you
know.
So I have to be gentle.
I can't cling even to peace orthe ability to plan episodes
(31:32):
like I want to, or that thisepisode will even be good.
I can't cling to that idea orbe attached to it.
I have to understand that I'mgonna do my best, and it may not
come out all right.
And it's difficult for me.
These are things that I stillstruggle with.
I want each episode to be thebest it can be, to see if it can
reach out and help someone.
(31:53):
And at the same time, I have tomake sure that I don't cling to
the podcast as an idol, if youwill, where the purpose of the
podcast becomes the podcastitself, where I become obsessed
with views and getting likes orshares or whatever.
This has to remain a genuinespace for not only myself to
(32:17):
share struggles that I gothrough, but also people
listening or people that Iinterview, for them to have a
genuine space to share theirexperiences in life and how they
are continuing the strugglewith them or how they overcame
them, spiritual practices, etcetera.
So I am not perfect.
(32:39):
I am still going through theseongoing struggles, and I want to
really hammer home that it'simportant that you be gentle
with yourself as you try torelease these things.
Use the experiments that I gaveyou before, but do it with
gentleness.
That noticing, you know, thatbreathing, gratitude, even when
(33:02):
you fail, just smile at it.
Keep keep starting again.
I may not succeed in quittingmy ice cream habit.
I'm just putting it out therenow.
I'll give you updates on thenext episodes if I'm able to.
So remember that as we movetowards the finish line here,
(33:26):
that happiness does not arisefrom getting what you desire.
It arises from the ceasing ofthe desire itself.
So don't chase after happinessby external objects.
Instead, shift your awarenessto that desire in the first
(33:50):
place.
And you'll start to notice thedifference between healthy
desires, like wanting to start apodcast that will help others,
or you know, um taking up ahealthy hobby versus the the the
burning desires, the lust forthis or that, the greed,
(34:11):
awareness.
So I'm gonna close out with uhreading from uh Rumi and Paul,
but before I do, uh if thisepisode gave you a little space
or a little piece or helped yousee life a little bit
differently, I'd love it if youcould follow the show and share
(34:35):
it with one friend who mightneed it.
It really helps this um findthe people who could use a
breath.
So to close out, I want to readto you a poem from Rumi.
It says, When I run after whatI think I want, my days are a
(34:58):
furnace of stress and anxiety.
If I sit in my own place ofpatience, what I need flows to
me and without pain.
From this I understand thatwhat I want also wants me, is
(35:21):
looking for me and attractingme.
There is a great secret herefor anyone who can grasp it.
And a man named Paul wrote thisfrom his prison cell.
He says, I have learned to becontent with whatever I have.
(35:45):
I know what it is to havelittle, and I know what it is to
have plenty.
In any and all circumstances, Ihave learned the secret of
being well fed and of goinghungry, of having plenty and of
(36:06):
being in need.
I can do all things through himwho strengthens me.
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