July 17, 2025 • 47 mins
Mysticism isn’t magic—it’s the direct experience behind every label. In “The Moon, Not the Finger,” we explore how names, borders, and even inches are useful fictions; why doctrines and measurements can’t touch what’s real; and how to recover clarity through mindfulness. Drawing on the Tao Te Ching, Rumi, Kabir, Meister Eckhart, and more, we look at the dance of opposites (hard/soft, good/evil), the veil of maya and the Eden story, and a fresh reading of “I AM” as living from being itself. Expect vivid examples (the equator, a ruler, a candle flame), the music/dance metaphor for purpose, and a simple practice for building “continuity of mindfulness” so life feels lighter, truer, and more spacious. We close by reading Rumi’s “The Guest House” as a daily guide to meeting whatever arrives—joy, shame, or sorrow—with presence and love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jacob (00:00):
So, Welcome to episode four of Standing Nowhere.
I'm your host, Jacob.
And this episode, I wanted todive into something that I've
(00:21):
found really interesting overthe last three years, and that
is mysticism.
What does that mean?
For those who are not familiarwith the word mysticism, it can
sound like something out of aHarry Potter movie, almost like
magic or something.
But I assure you, it is nothingof the kind.
In fact, it is the most basicthing.
(00:44):
But before we jump in toexactly what it is, I thought it
would be helpful to talk aboutkind of what caused the idea of
it to emerge.
There's kind of this dance ofopposites.
You can't have hard withoutsoft, or you wouldn't know what
you meant by hard unless youknew what soft meant.
(01:04):
Well, with mysticism...
It's sort of like if you livein the desert and it's really
hot out, you're going to need anair conditioner.
It creates the demand for anair conditioner.
So what created the demand forthe mystics, or why did they
emerge naturally from alldifferent various faiths and
backgrounds?
(01:24):
I mean, mystics came out ofChristianity.
They came out of Judaism.
They came out of Islam and theMuslim religion.
They came out of AdvaitaVedanta and Hinduism.
They came...
The entire path of Buddhism andthe Dharma, you could consider
mystical.
Same thing with Zen, especiallyTaoism, Lao Tzu.
(01:47):
So where did this, what causedthis to arise?
Well, I thought we would startwith that.
So let's dive right in.
The one thing that you have tounderstand about the way that
you see the world is that we areall taught right from a young
(02:10):
age to start labeling things, tolooking at the world through a
conceptual filter, if you will.
If I look at a tree and then Itell my son, look, that's a
tree, his mind is going to startto layer over that with tree.
That's a tree.
(02:31):
But a tree is nothing of thekind.
When we say tree, that's aword.
That's a concept.
But a tree is just what yousee.
When you see it, when you hearwind passing through its
branches and leaves, when youtouch the bark of a tree or
(02:52):
maybe feel sap on your fingers,this experience goes beyond
words, but we put words over it.
Another example would be theequator.
We know that the earth hasimaginary lines that we've drawn
all over it, lines of latitude,longitude, the equator, the
(03:15):
very concept of north, south,east, west.
These are all useful, no doubt,but they're not real.
They're not really real.
For example, if we walk to theequator line, I can say, well,
where is it?
Can I grab the equator?
(03:36):
No, it's not really there.
It's useful, but it's just aconcept.
In the same way, if you look ata ruler, you could say, okay,
this is a 12-inch ruler.
It measures a foot.
But what is a foot or 12inches?
What is an inch?
(03:56):
Okay.
You might say, well, it's this.
And you can hold up yourfingers approximately to an
inch.
What you'll find, and thismight be unsettling for some of
you listening to this, but thereactually is no such thing as an
inch or any measurementwhatsoever.
Huh?
How can that be?
I'm looking at my ruler rightnow or whatever.
(04:19):
And follow with me here becauseI'm going to take you on a
little journey to look at whatyou already know and what you
think to be real but is not realat all.
We all know that you cantheoretically comprehend things
(04:40):
in larger and larger scales andsmaller and smaller scales to an
infinite variable degree,right?
So if you zoom in on an inch,you will find that there is no
fixed starting point for aninch, a starting point of where
this inch begins and where thisinch ends.
For practical purposes, we canmake rulers that all generally
(05:04):
speaking have the same inchmeasurement when we put them
next to each other.
And from our perspective, theylook like they match.
Architects can design buildingsusing measurements.
They have to in order for themto stand.
However, again, when we zoom inand zoom in and zoom in, we
find that there is no fixedstarting point for the beginning
(05:27):
or the end of an inch or anymeasurement for that matter.
There is no limit to how smallsomething can get.
In the same way, there is nolimit to how large something can
get.
There are no pixels in reality.
Like when you zoom in, you'renever going to find, okay,
there's the solid edge of apixel.
(05:48):
There is where an inch begins.
That does not exist.
Astrophysicists, any, anyonewill confirm this.
All measurement essentially isan illusion.
The reason I'm We sort of liketake the United States.
(06:11):
There's a clearly outlined, ifI say picture the US in your
mind, you can picture the UnitedStates, the 48 contiguous, and
you can picture Alaska and theshape of it and everything like
that.
But you and I both know thatthere is actually no line in the
sand that is shaped like that.
(06:32):
It is a concept.
It is a filter that we havelayered over the earth saying
everything inside this imaginaryline.
is the US and everythingoutside of it is not the US.
I hope that this is makingsense.
These concepts are useful, butfundamentally, in reality, they
(06:53):
do not exist.
They only exist in our minds.
If all humans were to dieovernight, what would happen to
all the territories that we'vedrawn on the ground?
You know, they would go withus, right?
I mean, there'd still be mapsand things like that.
Now, Other things that we canpoint out like this would be...
(07:14):
Well, let's take...
Let's take another conceptwhich creates division is your
political party, for example.
Some people will labelthemselves as a Democrat.
Some will label as aRepublican, Marxist, whatever it
(07:37):
is.
These are also labels thattechnically do not exist.
They do point to things, yes.
So it is useful as a socialconvention.
It shouldn't be dismissed.
I'm not saying...
all concepts and ideas arefalse.
They just aren't really real.
I hope you guys are followingwith me here.
(07:59):
Like when we look at the sun,we call it the sun, but the sun
doesn't call itself the sun.
We just put a label on that.
The word sun.
Let's say that out loud a fewtimes.
You ever notice, this is alsowhat I'm getting at.
When you say a word over andover again, it loses its
conceptual value in your mindand and suddenly the word will
(08:22):
sound funny.
Like in that movie Black Sheepwith Chris Farley and David
Spade and some of the nitrousoxide was like leaking from the
back of a cop car that theystole and they start getting
really high and they're likeroads, roads, roads.
That's a funny word.
(08:43):
Roads, roads, roads.
Keep saying any word over andover again and it eventually
loses its conceptual meaning andyou just hear the vibrations
and it sounds funny.
That's when your mind sort ofgoes beyond the concepts.
It peeks above or peeks behindthe curtain that we've all, the
(09:03):
veil that we've put overreality.
There's a culture, the Hindus,who have a name for this veil
that we've veiled reality withand they call that maya or maya,
the illusion of dividing theinfinite into parts.
The Judeo-Christians have atradition as well that calls it
(09:29):
the, well, they call it the fallof man.
In the Garden of Eden, when Eveand Adam bite into the fruit of
knowledge, this is pointing tothe same thing as maya, the
illusion of dividing things.
As soon as Eve bit into theeverything else.
(09:51):
Even the concept of yourself isa concept, and ultimately, on
the ultimate fundamental realitylevel, is not real.
And notice that's why she feltnaked and grabbed clothes, and
God's like, who told you youwere naked?
Essentially like, who told youyou were separate from
everything?
Notice that it was when theygained knowledge that they were
(10:12):
thrown out of the garden.
So in the Hindu tradition, theylabel this maya.
So they They say maya isessentially an illusion.
The conceptual filters, Ipronounce that weird,
conceptual, conceptual filtersthat we've layered over reality,
that fundamentally is not real.
(10:34):
In a way, it is as natural andas organic as a flower because
we live in a universe that hasflowers and they came about
organically.
And conceptual filters, all ofthem, also came about
organically.
When I call myself Jacob, I amnot the word Jacob.
(10:56):
I am beyond words.
Everything is beyond words.
Words are useful.
They point to things, but theyare not the things themselves.
For example, in the Buddhisttradition, there's a saying, all
spiritual traditions are likefingers pointing to the moon,
(11:17):
but they are not the moonitself.
The moon is not the finger.
In order to see the moon, onemust see beyond the finger.
In the Christian tradition, forexample, when Paul is writing
his epistles, I forget which oneit is, he says, the peace that
surpasses all knowledge, allcomprehension, all
understanding, all mind.
(11:38):
That word is basically mind inGreek.
And there are various spiritualteachers throughout the
millennia that point to goingbeyond knowledge, to
experiencing what is.
And that, my friends, is whatmysticism is all about.
(12:01):
It is the experiential natureof reality, of the divine.
And notice, when we gainedknowledge, that's when Eve
labeled herself as a Mysticism,when we try to look beyond the
(12:22):
concepts of self and other, itemphasizes unity and union with
the divine.
And this is echoed throughoutthe millennia from various
mystics of all spiritualtraditions, be it Buddhist,
Taoist, Christian, Islam, youname it, Hindu.
(12:44):
They all point to union withthe divine.
Yoga Yada, yada, yada.
It's almost like...
(13:06):
we're looking through a windowor a looking glass at the sun or
at the sky.
But instead of just seeing thesky, we sort of layer over that
glass with an image of the sunor an image of the horizon.
And then we don't actually seethe full light that comes
through the glass.
(13:26):
We're sort of blocked by ourconceptual ideas about reality,
about ourselves.
So mystics and mysticism ingeneral, the emphasis is direct
experiential nature of thedivine.
So how do we do that?
That brings in the processes ofthings like mindfulness and
(13:49):
meditation, looking at the worldwithout filters.
But before we get to that, Iwanna also talk about one of the
major, major conceptual filtersthat we put on life.
And this of course ties intothe purpose of life.
What is the meaning of life?
And...
This is where you can put areally dark filter on your life
(14:16):
and yourself if you're notcareful.
There are some who have theconceptual model that the
universe is random, that allenergy is blind and it's bumping
into each other, and somehowout of that randomness, we
popped out of it.
It's a very dark way of lookingat things.
It's echoed in Shakespeare'sMacbeth.
(14:39):
A tale told by an idiot full ofsound and fury signifying
nothing, something to thateffect.
Like it's all meaningless.
What's the point?
Because we are taught from ayoung age that there is a
purpose to life, that we'regoing to get to that end and
(15:02):
you've got to struggle andstrive to get there as opposed
to just being exactly where youare with what is, each moment is
meaning unto itself.
Let me give you an example fromthis, and I'm going to pull
from Alan Watts again here,where he points out when you
listen to music, you are notthinking to yourself the purpose
(15:26):
of this song is to get to thevery final note.
You don't think that way atall.
When you listen to music, youare in love with every note.
Assuming you're listening tomusic that you enjoy, you're
enjoying the verses that thechoruses, the bridges, the
solos, whatever is coming up inthe music, you're with it at
that moment.
And it's complete into itself.
(15:49):
That to me shows you that inour deepest of deepest self,
that life is a game.
It's a fun play.
It is not meant to be takenseriously.
And I don't mean life isn'tserious like...
(16:09):
Who cares?
Another word, a better word,which I like, again, from Alan
Watts when he describes howmusic is not for the purpose of
getting to the end of the song,but...
He says that life isn'tserious.
It's something that's sincere.
So you play your partsincerely.
(16:31):
If you're a father, if you'rewhatever position you are in
your vocation in life, that youdo it sincerely.
But it's not serious.
It's not heavy.
Like G.K.
Chesterton said, the angels flybecause they take themselves
lightly.
So the purpose of life is notto get to the end of life.
(16:52):
It's to dance while you're inthe middle of it.
of it, just like a dance.
We don't dance to get to thelast spot on the floor.
The dance is the purpose initself, being with it.
When we're at those shows, Ican just feel myself letting go,
whether it's bobbing my head orjust jumping up and down.
My daughter, when she was noteven a year, about a year old,
(17:13):
we're all watching Frozen withher and she's doing the cutest
little bobbing where she does alittle half squat and then she
stands up, half squat, standsup, just to the music you know
and it's not something that sheneeded to be taught she just
instinctually knows that life isa dance it goes up it goes down
(17:35):
even the sound waves that arecoming at you right now from
this podcast are waves wavesthat crest and then they they go
down to the the valley or thetrough they come back up
everything is now you see me nowyou don't don't but when we
when we try to make sense of allthese vibrations all these
(17:58):
waves all these things happeningin life we label everything
which again is useful but we canmiss the forest for the trees
we can we can take the conceptstoo literally and that's that's
sort of the opposite ofmysticism is literalness too
(18:22):
much emphasis on literalness andI'm sorry.
When I was brought up in theChristian tradition, there were
people who would argue aboutGenesis, the book of Genesis,
whether it was literal orwhether it was metaphorical or
more poetic, like mythopoetry.
Some people, when they hear theword myth, they cringe like
(18:44):
it's a falsehood, when reallymyth is a powerful way of
describing and making sense ofthe universe, and not in a way
where it's false, But in a wayfor us to understand.
Now, if you look at that andyou say, well, Jake, you're kind
(19:29):
of silly.
The universe is not a rubberballoon, sir.
Thank you very much.
Obviously not, but it's auseful metaphor for
understanding the way thatthings are.
In similar fashion, the variousspiritual traditions, they use
metaphor and parable forunderstanding the way things are
(19:51):
in the universe.
In the Judeo-Christiantradition, tradition, they look
at whatever you want to callthis life as a father.
And why not?
I think I mentioned on anotherpodcast, you had a father, his
father had a father, and so onand so forth, all the way back
to the Big Bang.
So why not look at it as auniverse with a personality?
(20:15):
After all, you are the universeand you have a personality.
So that personality that is youwas already there encoded in
the big bang.
So you can shift your mindsetfrom life is work and life is
hard to life is playful thing, aplayful presence you can be
(20:38):
with.
And yes, sometimes it will havedown moments.
Sometimes there is the minorfall before the major lift in
the song.
That's what makes music sobeautiful.
If the whole song is just allup notes, high notes, there's no
down notes to contrast Andbefore I move on, I also wanted
(20:59):
to note that the illusion ofconstancy is also demonstrated
in music.
For example, when you arelistening to a quote song,
that's another concept.
The reality is there are notescoming at you in the present
moment, one after another, thatcreate the illusion of
continuity of a song.
(21:19):
When you look at a candleflame, it looks like a static,
solid thing, but it's nothing ofthe kind.
It's a constant stream ofoxidation of the wick as it is
burned up by the flame.
And it looks constant, but it'snot.
Just like a song, just likeyou.
But we take things to be solidand constant and forever lasting
(21:41):
when they're really not, atleast in the material world.
So the etymology of the wordmysticism, it implies going
beyond what can be said, quoteunquote, shutting up in order to
truly see.
It's the same root as mystery,and even the colloquial mums the
word.
Mystics in various traditionshave often used those who use
(22:03):
words against themselves.
That is, they speak, but onlyto prompt you towards what lies
beyond speaking.
Think of them as guides whosay, don't take my word for it.
Look for yourself.
So I want to read to you.
I want to read to you guys acouple of verses from the Tao Te
Ching.
This is a book written by a mannamed Lao Tzu who is considered
(22:26):
a mystic.
So the first verse that I wantto read says, the Tao that can,
oh, and Tao means the way, theway of things.
Kind of like if you watch waterroll down an object or a
mountain, it takes the path ofleast resistance.
There is a way of things in allthings in reality, including
(22:47):
you.
So the Tao that can bedescribed is not the eternal
Tao.
The name that can be spoken isnot the eternal name.
The nameless is the boundary ofheaven and earth.
The named is the mother ofcreation.
Freed from desire, you can seethe hidden mystery.
(23:10):
By having desire, you can onlysee what is visibly real.
Yet mystery and reality emergefrom the same source.
This source is called darkness.
Darkness born from darkness.
The beginning of allunderstanding.
And when it says darkness here,he's not talking about literal
(23:34):
darkness like scary darkness.
The darkness he's talking aboutis that...
How do I put this into words?
Because it's beyond words.
It's the mind when it's notthinking about anything or
(23:55):
thinking at all in terms ofconcepts, labels.
It's just experiencing what is.
And he calls it darknessbecause there's really no
description for it because itgoes beyond description.
Description beyond description.
So I wanted to read anotherverse from this guy.
This is written about 500 BC,and this touches on what I was
(24:19):
talking about earlier, how youwouldn't know hard without soft,
et cetera, the play ofopposites.
So he says here, and this isverse two, when people see
things as beautiful, ugliness iscreated.
When people see things as good,evil is created.
Being and non-being Difficultand easy complement each other.
(24:48):
Long and short define eachother.
High and low oppose each other.
Fore and aft follow each other.
Fore and aft means front andback for those who didn't catch
that.
Therefore, the master can actwithout doing anything and teach
(25:11):
without saying a word.
Things come her way and shedoes not stop them.
Things leave and she lets themgo.
She has without possessing andacts without any expectations.
When her work is done, shetakes no credit.
That is why it will lastforever.
And then I only want to readone more from Lao Tzu.
(25:35):
And I'm going to read in thissegment of the episode, I'm
going to read from a couple ofdifferent mystics just so you
can see how they all point tothe same thing.
They all say the same thingthrough their various traditions
Here's the other verse I wantedto read.
This is verse 11.
And this is really key becausethis is the point of the show,
essentially.
(25:55):
When you see the cover of thisshow and you see those two feet
standing on nothing, that'ssomething that you can actually
experience firsthand.
I can talk about it, but metalking about it and putting it
into words is a concept.
I have to point to it and youhave to try it.
If you can maintain continuityof your mindfulness, of your
(26:18):
day-to-day activities, you willstart to feel like you are
floating, just like that image.
And it feels really good.
I'm just forewarning you now.
I don't mean to tell you howyou're going to feel.
You'll feel it when you feelit.
When you make spiritualpractice or a practice to stay
rooted in your experiencesthroughout the day, essentially
(26:41):
to lessen your thinking and yourconceptual mind, you'll start
to feel like you're floating.
Like you have this great energyin you.
And I think in the Zentradition, they have a saying,
the student who experiencesSatori, which is a word
describing that feeling, goes tohell as straight as an arrow.
And what they mean by that isyour first attempts to kind of
(27:04):
take flight, experiencingmindfulness, especially when you
start to lengthen thecontinuity, essentially how long
you're mindful, longer andlonger bouts, you'll start to
feel the that weightlessfeeling, almost like you're
floating a few inches off theground and everything is just,
you're in that flow state.
But when you feel that, it canbe exciting and that will pull
(27:29):
you back into conceptualreality, like, whoa, that felt
really good.
Oh, darn, I'm thinking again.
Anyways, that's why they callit practice, spiritual practice.
And this is really pointing tothat, this next verse.
It says, there are 30 spokesjoined together We mold clay
(27:52):
into a pot, but it is theemptiness inside the pot that
makes the vessel useful.
We fashion wood for a house,but it is the emptiness inside
that makes it livable.
(28:12):
We work with the substantial,but it is the But the emptiness
is what we use.
So you see, what he's saying isconcepts are useful.
The spokes on a wheel, theymake the wagon move.
(28:32):
But it is that spaciousness inthe center that makes the entire
wheel possible.
In the same way, if you don'thave that spaciousness inside of
you, then life's going to berough.
You got to work on creatingthat space.
And the way you do that is bytethering yourself to the
(28:54):
experiences of every singlemoment.
Wherever you are, whateveryou're experiencing right now is
exactly what you need to getfree.
And this might seem like we'reputting thoughts down or saying
that thoughts are bad, andthat's not what I'm trying to
(29:15):
say.
This is a counter measure.
Like I said in the beginning ofthe episode, I wanted to talk
about what created the need formysticism or why mysticism
naturally arose out of eachspiritual tradition.
And that is because in eachtradition, people get lost in
(29:38):
the words and the concepts toomuch.
They get shackled by them.
There's verses all throughouteven the Christian Bible, for
example, where it says Godlaughs at the wisdom of men or
the wisdom of man makes Godlaugh or something in that vein,
I'm pointing out how all ofthem have these traditions and
we lose the thing that they'repointing to for the words
(30:04):
themselves.
And I'm really hammering thishome because even this podcast
episode, you can hear it and itmight ring a bell of truth in
you, but if you don't make aneffort to tether yourself to
your experiences on amoment-to-moment-to-moment
basis, you're going to keepgetting sucked up back into your
(30:25):
skull and thinking aboutconcepts and things like that.
Think of a child.
We put them in a school, andwhen you walk into a school,
what do you see?
Letters and numbers linedaround the ceiling.
The whole idea of school is tolabel everything.
And again, that is useful, butwe are not taught any to slow
(30:47):
down, breathe.
You'll hear bits of it try tocome through in the culture,
like stop and smell the roses,or our grandparents when they
used to just sit on the porch inthe front yard and just kind of
watch the trees sway in thewind.
We've lost touch with that.
And now we have smartphones inour pocket, for the love of God.
(31:10):
You can pull up anything inyour pocket at any time.
I don't know if you guys haveever struggled I'll go with
this, but I'll be watching amovie and I'm like, I got to
know how old this person is.
I got to know who that actoris.
Let me pause the film and lookit up.
It's real easy to get dominatedby the conceptual mind.
And if you don't flex yourexperience muscle, your
(31:34):
spiritual practice muscle,you're going to live a life
that's very stressed out andvery dark and very depressing.
And that is what all thesepaths point to.
Like if you read the book ofProverbs, for example, Solomon,
who wrote the book of Proverbs,talks about just watching every
(31:56):
step you're taking and lettingYahweh handle the rest.
And you'll notice the name ofGod, Yahweh, means to be, to
exist, I am, being.
In other words, when he saystrust in Yahweh, he's saying you
can literalize that andpersonify that, like trust in
(32:18):
the person God.
But you can also look at itfrom the meaning of his name,
because all Hebrew names have avery important or deep meaning,
typically, especially the nameof God from Exodus, I believe,
3.14, when he says, I am that Iam.
I don't think that ancientHebrews could simply write I am,
(32:38):
but that's what that means.
I am, to exist, to be.
So when When you hear Solomonsay, trust in Yahweh, trust in
your being.
Trust the moment.
Be completely with what is.
I had another thought on thatand I lost it.
Or take Jesus' name.
(32:59):
His actual name is Yeshua,which means Yahweh saves or is
salvation.
So if you look closely at whatthat name means, to be, to
exist, I am, is salvation.
And oh, that's what I was goingto say.
Jesus, he evoked the...
name of God as, in Aramaic, asa way of stating this.
(33:22):
Like, you can look at I am theway, the truth, and the life,
which many people love to use asa conceptual model of we're in
the in-group, everyone whodoesn't believe in Jesus is the
out-group.
But another way you can look atthat is Jesus was speaking from
the I am, the being in him thatwe all share, which he's said
(33:44):
many times in the gospel, I amis the way, the truth, and the
life.
To be, to exist, to rest intoyour being will guide your
steps, as it says in Proverbsand every other book in the
Bible.
And he also uses that I amstatement in many other ways.
Like, I am the vine, you arethe branch.
Being is the core vine ofeveryone.
(34:05):
And our various masks that wewear, I'm Jacob, you are Joe,
and he's Bill, these masks thatwe wear are the branches that
all extend from the same being,the indivisible being.
Because going back to what wesaid earlier, all measurement is
illusory, including the idea ofyourself being separate from
(34:30):
all of everything that is.
And that's one of the greatthings about mysticism is the
more you rest in being and yourexperiential nature, the more
you grow the continuity ofmindfulness, the more you will
feel intuitively beyond wordsthat you are absolutely one in
the same with everything elsethat is.
(34:50):
You are one with God.
You are not separate from him.
Some people might hear that andsay, well, does that mean I'm
God?
A better way to say it wouldbe, there is only God, or
whatever word you want to usefor God, and that you,
technically you exist, but justlike an inch, an inch doesn't
(35:14):
really exist.
It's a useful socialconvention.
You can consider when I say I,it's a point of view, it's a
perspective.
In the same way that you cancover your right eye and then
look through your right eye andsee darkness, and then close
your right eye and look throughyour left eye and see what your
left eye is seeing you can openboth eyes and one eye can see
(35:36):
one thing and the other eye isseeing something completely
different in the same way all ofthe eyes on earth or any other
planet are all seeing which isin in the field of awareness of
one single thing that is awareof everything at all times
everywhere all at once greatmovie too by the way um But
(35:59):
again, everything I'm sayinghere is conceptual.
So the best thing you can do isnot take my word for it.
That's where doubt becomesuseful.
See for yourself.
That's why I did in episodethree kind of a little bit of a
mindfulness meditationwalkthrough.
See for yourself.
Try to rest in the spacesbetween words, between thoughts,
(36:23):
and rest in that and experiencethat.
And don't try to conceptualizeit.
You cannot grasp it.
this with knowledge.
Just as water cannot exceed thelevel, its maximum level, the
mind cannot conceive of itsmaximum level.
The only thing you can do islet go and trust.
That's why the word faith isthe same meaning as trust.
(36:46):
Trust what is.
You came out of it.
If you look at the universe asseparate and other than you,
that conceptual layer, thatmodel will make you very fearful
in life.
You'll feel very small in a biguniverse.
But let's read some of theother mystics here because I
think you guys are going to lovethese.
So I've read to you Lao Tzu inthe Taoist tradition.
(37:09):
Now let's look at Jalal al-DinRumi, a 13th century Sufi from
Persia.
I'm going to read a poem fromhis later in the podcast.
But for now, I want to read alittle bio description.
It'll only take a moment.
It says, Rumi is one of theworld's most beloved mystical
poets.
He was born in 1207 inpresent-day Afghanistan, which
(37:31):
was then part of the PersianEmpire.
He was an Islamic scholar who,after meeting the mystic Shams
of Tabriz, became a passionateSufi, a lover of God in the form
of beauty and love.
Rumi's poetry overflows withthe idea of union with the
divine.
He saw God in everything, everyperson, every experience, even
(37:54):
the painful ones.
One famous Rumi saying, quote,Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing
and rightdoing, there is afield.
I'll meet you there.
See, this captures his sensethat truth lives beyond our
dualistic judgments.
We draw lines betweeneverything.
(38:16):
So let's fast forward.
I'm going to come back to Rumi.
I have a really great poem Iwant to read you from him called
The Guest House, which some ofyou who are familiar with him no
doubt have heard that poem.
And it's wonderful.
It's a great philosophy for youto live your life by.
Honestly, just hearing the poemcan change the way you live
your life.
(38:36):
It's literally life-changing.
Let's see.
Another one I wanted to talkabout was Kabir.
He was a 15th century mysticpoet from India.
And some people argued whetherhe was Hindu or Muslim.
He claimed that he was neither.
There is a quote from him thatsays, the Hindu says Ram is
(38:59):
supreme.
The Muslim says Rahim issupreme.
Then they kill each other.
And then he says, but tell me,brother, who created Ram and who
created Rahim?
And then he says, It says, inKabir's eyes, God was one and
found in all.
He says, quote, I am not aHindu, nor a Muslim am I.
He sings, I am this body, aplay of five elements, a drama
(39:24):
of the spirit, dancing with joyand sorrow.
So he describes, or he declaresthat he identifies only with
the fundamental reality commonto us all, the lila, the play of
life.
So let's pull another quote ofhis.
He says, quote, all know thatthe drop emerges into the ocean,
(39:48):
but few know that the oceanmerges into the drop.
In other words, we typicallythink of the individual soul
dissolving into the infinitelike a drop into the sea.
But the mystic realizes theinfinite also resides within the
individual.
The entire ocean of divinitycan be found inside each drop of
(40:12):
creation.
Such words beautifully conveythe non-dual idea that God is
not separate from the world orfrom us.
Now, the mystics from theChristian faith have wonderful,
wonderful things to say.
And I want to read to you thislittle description of Meister
(40:33):
Eckhart here.
He writes here in a quote, myeye and God's eye are one eye,
or I'm sorry, it says the eyewith which I see God is the same
eye through which God sees me.
My eye and God's eye are oneeye, one seeing, one knowing,
one love.
This stunning quote illustratesNow there's other Christian
(41:01):
mystics, wonderful ones, likeSt.
John of the Cross.
I want to read you a quote fromhim real fast.
So here he's saying thatanything you can possibly So,
(41:23):
it's easy to misunderstand themystics or mysticism in general
for putting down concepts orputting down theology.
There's another quote that'sattributed to Meister Eckhart
(41:46):
that says, "...theologiansargue, but mystics all speak the
same language." But whatthey're doing is not putting
down beliefs or concepts.
They're saying that beliefs areladders.
Concepts are ladders to beclimbed up and then let go of
when you reach the roof.
Or in Buddhism, they sayspiritual traditions are like a
(42:10):
boat that you use to cross tothe other side of the river, to
reach the other shore.
When you get to the othershore, you don't pick up the
boat and carry it on your back.
You just live the reality ofit.
When Jesus was asked, how willthey know we are your disciples?
He said, they will know you aremy disciple by the love that
(42:33):
you have for one another.
So he didn't say by how manyverses you memorized.
They didn't even have the Bibleback then.
The Gospels weren't writtenuntil many decades after him.
Even Paul's epistles, you know,Jesus just said, love everyone.
Or John Lennon, all you needneed is love.
(42:53):
It's not complicated.
Take an active interest in yourlife and what you are.
We're pulling close to thefinish line here, guys.
So I am going to leave you witha wonderful poem.
But before I read this poem toyou, I just wanted to give you a
little call to action.
If this episode has spoke toyou or any other prior ones,
(43:18):
please consider following theshow, leaving a review, or
sharing it with someone whomight need it.
It's You can also support thepodcast at patreon.com slash
standing nowhere podcast.
And you can connect with us inour growing Discord community or
by email.
All the links are in thedescription.
And we're also on the socialsif you want to follow along
there.
So let's close out with a Rumipoem.
(43:39):
This is a poem that couldpossibly change the way you
experience your life.
So listen close.
The Guest House by Rumi.
This being human is a guesthouse.
Every morning, a new arrival, ajoy, a depression, a meanness.
(44:02):
Some momentary awareness comesas an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all,even if they're a crowd of
sorrows who violently sweep yourhouse empty of its furniture.
Still, Treat each guesthonorably.
He may be clearing you out forsome new delight.
(44:25):
The dark thought, the shame,the malice.
Meet them at the door laughingand invite them in.
Be grateful for whoever comesbecause each has been sent as a
guide from beyond.
Music (44:43):
This voice might fade like dust on the dial But I'm
standing nowhere and I've beenfor a while No heroes, no
headlines, no promises made Justa whisper that won't And then
(45:18):
nowhere it feels like home Noflags to wave, no need to roam
The silence speaks louder thanwar ever could And I've never
(45:41):
felt so alone static is kind itleaves me alone no orders to
follow no king on the throne thesky's turning amber the clock's
(46:08):
all reset and I haven't stoppedwalking No chains, no name, no
(46:32):
destiny.
The road dissolves, the skyturns white.
So, Welcome to episode four of Standing Nowhere.
I'm your host, Jacob.
And this episode, I wanted todive into something that I've
(00:21):
found really interesting overthe last three years, and that
is mysticism.
What does that mean?
For those who are not familiarwith the word mysticism, it can
sound like something out of aHarry Potter movie, almost like
magic or something.
But I assure you, it is nothingof the kind.
In fact, it is the most basicthing.
(00:44):
But before we jump in toexactly what it is, I thought it
would be helpful to talk aboutkind of what caused the idea of
it to emerge.
There's kind of this dance ofopposites.
You can't have hard withoutsoft, or you wouldn't know what
you meant by hard unless youknew what soft meant.
(01:04):
Well, with mysticism...
It's sort of like if you livein the desert and it's really
hot out, you're going to need anair conditioner.
It creates the demand for anair conditioner.
So what created the demand forthe mystics, or why did they
emerge naturally from alldifferent various faiths and
backgrounds?
(01:24):
I mean, mystics came out ofChristianity.
They came out of Judaism.
They came out of Islam and theMuslim religion.
They came out of AdvaitaVedanta and Hinduism.
They came...
The entire path of Buddhism andthe Dharma, you could consider
mystical.
Same thing with Zen, especiallyTaoism, Lao Tzu.
(01:47):
So where did this, what causedthis to arise?
Well, I thought we would startwith that.
So let's dive right in.
The one thing that you have tounderstand about the way that
you see the world is that we areall taught right from a young
(02:10):
age to start labeling things, tolooking at the world through a
conceptual filter, if you will.
If I look at a tree and then Itell my son, look, that's a
tree, his mind is going to startto layer over that with tree.
That's a tree.
(02:31):
But a tree is nothing of thekind.
When we say tree, that's aword.
That's a concept.
But a tree is just what yousee.
When you see it, when you hearwind passing through its
branches and leaves, when youtouch the bark of a tree or
(02:52):
maybe feel sap on your fingers,this experience goes beyond
words, but we put words over it.
Another example would be theequator.
We know that the earth hasimaginary lines that we've drawn
all over it, lines of latitude,longitude, the equator, the
(03:15):
very concept of north, south,east, west.
These are all useful, no doubt,but they're not real.
They're not really real.
For example, if we walk to theequator line, I can say, well,
where is it?
Can I grab the equator?
(03:36):
No, it's not really there.
It's useful, but it's just aconcept.
In the same way, if you look ata ruler, you could say, okay,
this is a 12-inch ruler.
It measures a foot.
But what is a foot or 12inches?
What is an inch?
(03:56):
Okay.
You might say, well, it's this.
And you can hold up yourfingers approximately to an
inch.
What you'll find, and thismight be unsettling for some of
you listening to this, but thereactually is no such thing as an
inch or any measurementwhatsoever.
Huh?
How can that be?
I'm looking at my ruler rightnow or whatever.
(04:19):
And follow with me here becauseI'm going to take you on a
little journey to look at whatyou already know and what you
think to be real but is not realat all.
We all know that you cantheoretically comprehend things
(04:40):
in larger and larger scales andsmaller and smaller scales to an
infinite variable degree,right?
So if you zoom in on an inch,you will find that there is no
fixed starting point for aninch, a starting point of where
this inch begins and where thisinch ends.
For practical purposes, we canmake rulers that all generally
(05:04):
speaking have the same inchmeasurement when we put them
next to each other.
And from our perspective, theylook like they match.
Architects can design buildingsusing measurements.
They have to in order for themto stand.
However, again, when we zoom inand zoom in and zoom in, we
find that there is no fixedstarting point for the beginning
(05:27):
or the end of an inch or anymeasurement for that matter.
There is no limit to how smallsomething can get.
In the same way, there is nolimit to how large something can
get.
There are no pixels in reality.
Like when you zoom in, you'renever going to find, okay,
there's the solid edge of apixel.
(05:48):
There is where an inch begins.
That does not exist.
Astrophysicists, any, anyonewill confirm this.
All measurement essentially isan illusion.
The reason I'm We sort of liketake the United States.
(06:11):
There's a clearly outlined, ifI say picture the US in your
mind, you can picture the UnitedStates, the 48 contiguous, and
you can picture Alaska and theshape of it and everything like
that.
But you and I both know thatthere is actually no line in the
sand that is shaped like that.
(06:32):
It is a concept.
It is a filter that we havelayered over the earth saying
everything inside this imaginaryline.
is the US and everythingoutside of it is not the US.
I hope that this is makingsense.
These concepts are useful, butfundamentally, in reality, they
(06:53):
do not exist.
They only exist in our minds.
If all humans were to dieovernight, what would happen to
all the territories that we'vedrawn on the ground?
You know, they would go withus, right?
I mean, there'd still be mapsand things like that.
Now, Other things that we canpoint out like this would be...
(07:14):
Well, let's take...
Let's take another conceptwhich creates division is your
political party, for example.
Some people will labelthemselves as a Democrat.
Some will label as aRepublican, Marxist, whatever it
(07:37):
is.
These are also labels thattechnically do not exist.
They do point to things, yes.
So it is useful as a socialconvention.
It shouldn't be dismissed.
I'm not saying...
all concepts and ideas arefalse.
They just aren't really real.
I hope you guys are followingwith me here.
(07:59):
Like when we look at the sun,we call it the sun, but the sun
doesn't call itself the sun.
We just put a label on that.
The word sun.
Let's say that out loud a fewtimes.
You ever notice, this is alsowhat I'm getting at.
When you say a word over andover again, it loses its
conceptual value in your mindand and suddenly the word will
(08:22):
sound funny.
Like in that movie Black Sheepwith Chris Farley and David
Spade and some of the nitrousoxide was like leaking from the
back of a cop car that theystole and they start getting
really high and they're likeroads, roads, roads.
That's a funny word.
(08:43):
Roads, roads, roads.
Keep saying any word over andover again and it eventually
loses its conceptual meaning andyou just hear the vibrations
and it sounds funny.
That's when your mind sort ofgoes beyond the concepts.
It peeks above or peeks behindthe curtain that we've all, the
(09:03):
veil that we've put overreality.
There's a culture, the Hindus,who have a name for this veil
that we've veiled reality withand they call that maya or maya,
the illusion of dividing theinfinite into parts.
The Judeo-Christians have atradition as well that calls it
(09:29):
the, well, they call it the fallof man.
In the Garden of Eden, when Eveand Adam bite into the fruit of
knowledge, this is pointing tothe same thing as maya, the
illusion of dividing things.
As soon as Eve bit into theeverything else.
(09:51):
Even the concept of yourself isa concept, and ultimately, on
the ultimate fundamental realitylevel, is not real.
And notice that's why she feltnaked and grabbed clothes, and
God's like, who told you youwere naked?
Essentially like, who told youyou were separate from
everything?
Notice that it was when theygained knowledge that they were
(10:12):
thrown out of the garden.
So in the Hindu tradition, theylabel this maya.
So they They say maya isessentially an illusion.
The conceptual filters, Ipronounce that weird,
conceptual, conceptual filtersthat we've layered over reality,
that fundamentally is not real.
(10:34):
In a way, it is as natural andas organic as a flower because
we live in a universe that hasflowers and they came about
organically.
And conceptual filters, all ofthem, also came about
organically.
When I call myself Jacob, I amnot the word Jacob.
(10:56):
I am beyond words.
Everything is beyond words.
Words are useful.
They point to things, but theyare not the things themselves.
For example, in the Buddhisttradition, there's a saying, all
spiritual traditions are likefingers pointing to the moon,
(11:17):
but they are not the moonitself.
The moon is not the finger.
In order to see the moon, onemust see beyond the finger.
In the Christian tradition, forexample, when Paul is writing
his epistles, I forget which oneit is, he says, the peace that
surpasses all knowledge, allcomprehension, all
understanding, all mind.
(11:38):
That word is basically mind inGreek.
And there are various spiritualteachers throughout the
millennia that point to goingbeyond knowledge, to
experiencing what is.
And that, my friends, is whatmysticism is all about.
(12:01):
It is the experiential natureof reality, of the divine.
And notice, when we gainedknowledge, that's when Eve
labeled herself as a Mysticism,when we try to look beyond the
(12:22):
concepts of self and other, itemphasizes unity and union with
the divine.
And this is echoed throughoutthe millennia from various
mystics of all spiritualtraditions, be it Buddhist,
Taoist, Christian, Islam, youname it, Hindu.
(12:44):
They all point to union withthe divine.
Yoga Yada, yada, yada.
It's almost like...
(13:06):
we're looking through a windowor a looking glass at the sun or
at the sky.
But instead of just seeing thesky, we sort of layer over that
glass with an image of the sunor an image of the horizon.
And then we don't actually seethe full light that comes
through the glass.
(13:26):
We're sort of blocked by ourconceptual ideas about reality,
about ourselves.
So mystics and mysticism ingeneral, the emphasis is direct
experiential nature of thedivine.
So how do we do that?
That brings in the processes ofthings like mindfulness and
(13:49):
meditation, looking at the worldwithout filters.
But before we get to that, Iwanna also talk about one of the
major, major conceptual filtersthat we put on life.
And this of course ties intothe purpose of life.
What is the meaning of life?
And...
This is where you can put areally dark filter on your life
(14:16):
and yourself if you're notcareful.
There are some who have theconceptual model that the
universe is random, that allenergy is blind and it's bumping
into each other, and somehowout of that randomness, we
popped out of it.
It's a very dark way of lookingat things.
It's echoed in Shakespeare'sMacbeth.
(14:39):
A tale told by an idiot full ofsound and fury signifying
nothing, something to thateffect.
Like it's all meaningless.
What's the point?
Because we are taught from ayoung age that there is a
purpose to life, that we'regoing to get to that end and
(15:02):
you've got to struggle andstrive to get there as opposed
to just being exactly where youare with what is, each moment is
meaning unto itself.
Let me give you an example fromthis, and I'm going to pull
from Alan Watts again here,where he points out when you
listen to music, you are notthinking to yourself the purpose
(15:26):
of this song is to get to thevery final note.
You don't think that way atall.
When you listen to music, youare in love with every note.
Assuming you're listening tomusic that you enjoy, you're
enjoying the verses that thechoruses, the bridges, the
solos, whatever is coming up inthe music, you're with it at
that moment.
And it's complete into itself.
(15:49):
That to me shows you that inour deepest of deepest self,
that life is a game.
It's a fun play.
It is not meant to be takenseriously.
And I don't mean life isn'tserious like...
(16:09):
Who cares?
Another word, a better word,which I like, again, from Alan
Watts when he describes howmusic is not for the purpose of
getting to the end of the song,but...
He says that life isn'tserious.
It's something that's sincere.
So you play your partsincerely.
(16:31):
If you're a father, if you'rewhatever position you are in
your vocation in life, that youdo it sincerely.
But it's not serious.
It's not heavy.
Like G.K.
Chesterton said, the angels flybecause they take themselves
lightly.
So the purpose of life is notto get to the end of life.
(16:52):
It's to dance while you're inthe middle of it.
of it, just like a dance.
We don't dance to get to thelast spot on the floor.
The dance is the purpose initself, being with it.
When we're at those shows, Ican just feel myself letting go,
whether it's bobbing my head orjust jumping up and down.
My daughter, when she was noteven a year, about a year old,
(17:13):
we're all watching Frozen withher and she's doing the cutest
little bobbing where she does alittle half squat and then she
stands up, half squat, standsup, just to the music you know
and it's not something that sheneeded to be taught she just
instinctually knows that life isa dance it goes up it goes down
(17:35):
even the sound waves that arecoming at you right now from
this podcast are waves wavesthat crest and then they they go
down to the the valley or thetrough they come back up
everything is now you see me nowyou don't don't but when we
when we try to make sense of allthese vibrations all these
(17:58):
waves all these things happeningin life we label everything
which again is useful but we canmiss the forest for the trees
we can we can take the conceptstoo literally and that's that's
sort of the opposite ofmysticism is literalness too
(18:22):
much emphasis on literalness andI'm sorry.
When I was brought up in theChristian tradition, there were
people who would argue aboutGenesis, the book of Genesis,
whether it was literal orwhether it was metaphorical or
more poetic, like mythopoetry.
Some people, when they hear theword myth, they cringe like
(18:44):
it's a falsehood, when reallymyth is a powerful way of
describing and making sense ofthe universe, and not in a way
where it's false, But in a wayfor us to understand.
Now, if you look at that andyou say, well, Jake, you're kind
(19:29):
of silly.
The universe is not a rubberballoon, sir.
Thank you very much.
Obviously not, but it's auseful metaphor for
understanding the way thatthings are.
In similar fashion, the variousspiritual traditions, they use
metaphor and parable forunderstanding the way things are
(19:51):
in the universe.
In the Judeo-Christiantradition, tradition, they look
at whatever you want to callthis life as a father.
And why not?
I think I mentioned on anotherpodcast, you had a father, his
father had a father, and so onand so forth, all the way back
to the Big Bang.
So why not look at it as auniverse with a personality?
(20:15):
After all, you are the universeand you have a personality.
So that personality that is youwas already there encoded in
the big bang.
So you can shift your mindsetfrom life is work and life is
hard to life is playful thing, aplayful presence you can be
(20:38):
with.
And yes, sometimes it will havedown moments.
Sometimes there is the minorfall before the major lift in
the song.
That's what makes music sobeautiful.
If the whole song is just allup notes, high notes, there's no
down notes to contrast Andbefore I move on, I also wanted
(20:59):
to note that the illusion ofconstancy is also demonstrated
in music.
For example, when you arelistening to a quote song,
that's another concept.
The reality is there are notescoming at you in the present
moment, one after another, thatcreate the illusion of
continuity of a song.
(21:19):
When you look at a candleflame, it looks like a static,
solid thing, but it's nothing ofthe kind.
It's a constant stream ofoxidation of the wick as it is
burned up by the flame.
And it looks constant, but it'snot.
Just like a song, just likeyou.
But we take things to be solidand constant and forever lasting
(21:41):
when they're really not, atleast in the material world.
So the etymology of the wordmysticism, it implies going
beyond what can be said, quoteunquote, shutting up in order to
truly see.
It's the same root as mystery,and even the colloquial mums the
word.
Mystics in various traditionshave often used those who use
(22:03):
words against themselves.
That is, they speak, but onlyto prompt you towards what lies
beyond speaking.
Think of them as guides whosay, don't take my word for it.
Look for yourself.
So I want to read to you.
I want to read to you guys acouple of verses from the Tao Te
Ching.
This is a book written by a mannamed Lao Tzu who is considered
(22:26):
a mystic.
So the first verse that I wantto read says, the Tao that can,
oh, and Tao means the way, theway of things.
Kind of like if you watch waterroll down an object or a
mountain, it takes the path ofleast resistance.
There is a way of things in allthings in reality, including
(22:47):
you.
So the Tao that can bedescribed is not the eternal
Tao.
The name that can be spoken isnot the eternal name.
The nameless is the boundary ofheaven and earth.
The named is the mother ofcreation.
Freed from desire, you can seethe hidden mystery.
(23:10):
By having desire, you can onlysee what is visibly real.
Yet mystery and reality emergefrom the same source.
This source is called darkness.
Darkness born from darkness.
The beginning of allunderstanding.
And when it says darkness here,he's not talking about literal
(23:34):
darkness like scary darkness.
The darkness he's talking aboutis that...
How do I put this into words?
Because it's beyond words.
It's the mind when it's notthinking about anything or
(23:55):
thinking at all in terms ofconcepts, labels.
It's just experiencing what is.
And he calls it darknessbecause there's really no
description for it because itgoes beyond description.
Description beyond description.
So I wanted to read anotherverse from this guy.
This is written about 500 BC,and this touches on what I was
(24:19):
talking about earlier, how youwouldn't know hard without soft,
et cetera, the play ofopposites.
So he says here, and this isverse two, when people see
things as beautiful, ugliness iscreated.
When people see things as good,evil is created.
Being and non-being Difficultand easy complement each other.
(24:48):
Long and short define eachother.
High and low oppose each other.
Fore and aft follow each other.
Fore and aft means front andback for those who didn't catch
that.
Therefore, the master can actwithout doing anything and teach
(25:11):
without saying a word.
Things come her way and shedoes not stop them.
Things leave and she lets themgo.
She has without possessing andacts without any expectations.
When her work is done, shetakes no credit.
That is why it will lastforever.
And then I only want to readone more from Lao Tzu.
(25:35):
And I'm going to read in thissegment of the episode, I'm
going to read from a couple ofdifferent mystics just so you
can see how they all point tothe same thing.
They all say the same thingthrough their various traditions
Here's the other verse I wantedto read.
This is verse 11.
And this is really key becausethis is the point of the show,
essentially.
(25:55):
When you see the cover of thisshow and you see those two feet
standing on nothing, that'ssomething that you can actually
experience firsthand.
I can talk about it, but metalking about it and putting it
into words is a concept.
I have to point to it and youhave to try it.
If you can maintain continuityof your mindfulness, of your
(26:18):
day-to-day activities, you willstart to feel like you are
floating, just like that image.
And it feels really good.
I'm just forewarning you now.
I don't mean to tell you howyou're going to feel.
You'll feel it when you feelit.
When you make spiritualpractice or a practice to stay
rooted in your experiencesthroughout the day, essentially
(26:41):
to lessen your thinking and yourconceptual mind, you'll start
to feel like you're floating.
Like you have this great energyin you.
And I think in the Zentradition, they have a saying,
the student who experiencesSatori, which is a word
describing that feeling, goes tohell as straight as an arrow.
And what they mean by that isyour first attempts to kind of
(27:04):
take flight, experiencingmindfulness, especially when you
start to lengthen thecontinuity, essentially how long
you're mindful, longer andlonger bouts, you'll start to
feel the that weightlessfeeling, almost like you're
floating a few inches off theground and everything is just,
you're in that flow state.
But when you feel that, it canbe exciting and that will pull
(27:29):
you back into conceptualreality, like, whoa, that felt
really good.
Oh, darn, I'm thinking again.
Anyways, that's why they callit practice, spiritual practice.
And this is really pointing tothat, this next verse.
It says, there are 30 spokesjoined together We mold clay
(27:52):
into a pot, but it is theemptiness inside the pot that
makes the vessel useful.
We fashion wood for a house,but it is the emptiness inside
that makes it livable.
(28:12):
We work with the substantial,but it is the But the emptiness
is what we use.
So you see, what he's saying isconcepts are useful.
The spokes on a wheel, theymake the wagon move.
(28:32):
But it is that spaciousness inthe center that makes the entire
wheel possible.
In the same way, if you don'thave that spaciousness inside of
you, then life's going to berough.
You got to work on creatingthat space.
And the way you do that is bytethering yourself to the
(28:54):
experiences of every singlemoment.
Wherever you are, whateveryou're experiencing right now is
exactly what you need to getfree.
And this might seem like we'reputting thoughts down or saying
that thoughts are bad, andthat's not what I'm trying to
(29:15):
say.
This is a counter measure.
Like I said in the beginning ofthe episode, I wanted to talk
about what created the need formysticism or why mysticism
naturally arose out of eachspiritual tradition.
And that is because in eachtradition, people get lost in
(29:38):
the words and the concepts toomuch.
They get shackled by them.
There's verses all throughouteven the Christian Bible, for
example, where it says Godlaughs at the wisdom of men or
the wisdom of man makes Godlaugh or something in that vein,
I'm pointing out how all ofthem have these traditions and
we lose the thing that they'repointing to for the words
(30:04):
themselves.
And I'm really hammering thishome because even this podcast
episode, you can hear it and itmight ring a bell of truth in
you, but if you don't make aneffort to tether yourself to
your experiences on amoment-to-moment-to-moment
basis, you're going to keepgetting sucked up back into your
(30:25):
skull and thinking aboutconcepts and things like that.
Think of a child.
We put them in a school, andwhen you walk into a school,
what do you see?
Letters and numbers linedaround the ceiling.
The whole idea of school is tolabel everything.
And again, that is useful, butwe are not taught any to slow
(30:47):
down, breathe.
You'll hear bits of it try tocome through in the culture,
like stop and smell the roses,or our grandparents when they
used to just sit on the porch inthe front yard and just kind of
watch the trees sway in thewind.
We've lost touch with that.
And now we have smartphones inour pocket, for the love of God.
(31:10):
You can pull up anything inyour pocket at any time.
I don't know if you guys haveever struggled I'll go with
this, but I'll be watching amovie and I'm like, I got to
know how old this person is.
I got to know who that actoris.
Let me pause the film and lookit up.
It's real easy to get dominatedby the conceptual mind.
And if you don't flex yourexperience muscle, your
(31:34):
spiritual practice muscle,you're going to live a life
that's very stressed out andvery dark and very depressing.
And that is what all thesepaths point to.
Like if you read the book ofProverbs, for example, Solomon,
who wrote the book of Proverbs,talks about just watching every
(31:56):
step you're taking and lettingYahweh handle the rest.
And you'll notice the name ofGod, Yahweh, means to be, to
exist, I am, being.
In other words, when he saystrust in Yahweh, he's saying you
can literalize that andpersonify that, like trust in
(32:18):
the person God.
But you can also look at itfrom the meaning of his name,
because all Hebrew names have avery important or deep meaning,
typically, especially the nameof God from Exodus, I believe,
3.14, when he says, I am that Iam.
I don't think that ancientHebrews could simply write I am,
(32:38):
but that's what that means.
I am, to exist, to be.
So when When you hear Solomonsay, trust in Yahweh, trust in
your being.
Trust the moment.
Be completely with what is.
I had another thought on thatand I lost it.
Or take Jesus' name.
(32:59):
His actual name is Yeshua,which means Yahweh saves or is
salvation.
So if you look closely at whatthat name means, to be, to
exist, I am, is salvation.
And oh, that's what I was goingto say.
Jesus, he evoked the...
name of God as, in Aramaic, asa way of stating this.
(33:22):
Like, you can look at I am theway, the truth, and the life,
which many people love to use asa conceptual model of we're in
the in-group, everyone whodoesn't believe in Jesus is the
out-group.
But another way you can look atthat is Jesus was speaking from
the I am, the being in him thatwe all share, which he's said
(33:44):
many times in the gospel, I amis the way, the truth, and the
life.
To be, to exist, to rest intoyour being will guide your
steps, as it says in Proverbsand every other book in the
Bible.
And he also uses that I amstatement in many other ways.
Like, I am the vine, you arethe branch.
Being is the core vine ofeveryone.
(34:05):
And our various masks that wewear, I'm Jacob, you are Joe,
and he's Bill, these masks thatwe wear are the branches that
all extend from the same being,the indivisible being.
Because going back to what wesaid earlier, all measurement is
illusory, including the idea ofyourself being separate from
(34:30):
all of everything that is.
And that's one of the greatthings about mysticism is the
more you rest in being and yourexperiential nature, the more
you grow the continuity ofmindfulness, the more you will
feel intuitively beyond wordsthat you are absolutely one in
the same with everything elsethat is.
(34:50):
You are one with God.
You are not separate from him.
Some people might hear that andsay, well, does that mean I'm
God?
A better way to say it wouldbe, there is only God, or
whatever word you want to usefor God, and that you,
technically you exist, but justlike an inch, an inch doesn't
(35:14):
really exist.
It's a useful socialconvention.
You can consider when I say I,it's a point of view, it's a
perspective.
In the same way that you cancover your right eye and then
look through your right eye andsee darkness, and then close
your right eye and look throughyour left eye and see what your
left eye is seeing you can openboth eyes and one eye can see
(35:36):
one thing and the other eye isseeing something completely
different in the same way all ofthe eyes on earth or any other
planet are all seeing which isin in the field of awareness of
one single thing that is awareof everything at all times
everywhere all at once greatmovie too by the way um But
(35:59):
again, everything I'm sayinghere is conceptual.
So the best thing you can do isnot take my word for it.
That's where doubt becomesuseful.
See for yourself.
That's why I did in episodethree kind of a little bit of a
mindfulness meditationwalkthrough.
See for yourself.
Try to rest in the spacesbetween words, between thoughts,
(36:23):
and rest in that and experiencethat.
And don't try to conceptualizeit.
You cannot grasp it.
this with knowledge.
Just as water cannot exceed thelevel, its maximum level, the
mind cannot conceive of itsmaximum level.
The only thing you can do islet go and trust.
That's why the word faith isthe same meaning as trust.
(36:46):
Trust what is.
You came out of it.
If you look at the universe asseparate and other than you,
that conceptual layer, thatmodel will make you very fearful
in life.
You'll feel very small in a biguniverse.
But let's read some of theother mystics here because I
think you guys are going to lovethese.
So I've read to you Lao Tzu inthe Taoist tradition.
(37:09):
Now let's look at Jalal al-DinRumi, a 13th century Sufi from
Persia.
I'm going to read a poem fromhis later in the podcast.
But for now, I want to read alittle bio description.
It'll only take a moment.
It says, Rumi is one of theworld's most beloved mystical
poets.
He was born in 1207 inpresent-day Afghanistan, which
(37:31):
was then part of the PersianEmpire.
He was an Islamic scholar who,after meeting the mystic Shams
of Tabriz, became a passionateSufi, a lover of God in the form
of beauty and love.
Rumi's poetry overflows withthe idea of union with the
divine.
He saw God in everything, everyperson, every experience, even
(37:54):
the painful ones.
One famous Rumi saying, quote,Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing
and rightdoing, there is afield.
I'll meet you there.
See, this captures his sensethat truth lives beyond our
dualistic judgments.
We draw lines betweeneverything.
(38:16):
So let's fast forward.
I'm going to come back to Rumi.
I have a really great poem Iwant to read you from him called
The Guest House, which some ofyou who are familiar with him no
doubt have heard that poem.
And it's wonderful.
It's a great philosophy for youto live your life by.
Honestly, just hearing the poemcan change the way you live
your life.
(38:36):
It's literally life-changing.
Let's see.
Another one I wanted to talkabout was Kabir.
He was a 15th century mysticpoet from India.
And some people argued whetherhe was Hindu or Muslim.
He claimed that he was neither.
There is a quote from him thatsays, the Hindu says Ram is
(38:59):
supreme.
The Muslim says Rahim issupreme.
Then they kill each other.
And then he says, but tell me,brother, who created Ram and who
created Rahim?
And then he says, It says, inKabir's eyes, God was one and
found in all.
He says, quote, I am not aHindu, nor a Muslim am I.
He sings, I am this body, aplay of five elements, a drama
(39:24):
of the spirit, dancing with joyand sorrow.
So he describes, or he declaresthat he identifies only with
the fundamental reality commonto us all, the lila, the play of
life.
So let's pull another quote ofhis.
He says, quote, all know thatthe drop emerges into the ocean,
(39:48):
but few know that the oceanmerges into the drop.
In other words, we typicallythink of the individual soul
dissolving into the infinitelike a drop into the sea.
But the mystic realizes theinfinite also resides within the
individual.
The entire ocean of divinitycan be found inside each drop of
(40:12):
creation.
Such words beautifully conveythe non-dual idea that God is
not separate from the world orfrom us.
Now, the mystics from theChristian faith have wonderful,
wonderful things to say.
And I want to read to you thislittle description of Meister
(40:33):
Eckhart here.
He writes here in a quote, myeye and God's eye are one eye,
or I'm sorry, it says the eyewith which I see God is the same
eye through which God sees me.
My eye and God's eye are oneeye, one seeing, one knowing,
one love.
This stunning quote illustratesNow there's other Christian
(41:01):
mystics, wonderful ones, likeSt.
John of the Cross.
I want to read you a quote fromhim real fast.
So here he's saying thatanything you can possibly So,
(41:23):
it's easy to misunderstand themystics or mysticism in general
for putting down concepts orputting down theology.
There's another quote that'sattributed to Meister Eckhart
(41:46):
that says, "...theologiansargue, but mystics all speak the
same language." But whatthey're doing is not putting
down beliefs or concepts.
They're saying that beliefs areladders.
Concepts are ladders to beclimbed up and then let go of
when you reach the roof.
Or in Buddhism, they sayspiritual traditions are like a
(42:10):
boat that you use to cross tothe other side of the river, to
reach the other shore.
When you get to the othershore, you don't pick up the
boat and carry it on your back.
You just live the reality ofit.
When Jesus was asked, how willthey know we are your disciples?
He said, they will know you aremy disciple by the love that
(42:33):
you have for one another.
So he didn't say by how manyverses you memorized.
They didn't even have the Bibleback then.
The Gospels weren't writtenuntil many decades after him.
Even Paul's epistles, you know,Jesus just said, love everyone.
Or John Lennon, all you needneed is love.
(42:53):
It's not complicated.
Take an active interest in yourlife and what you are.
We're pulling close to thefinish line here, guys.
So I am going to leave you witha wonderful poem.
But before I read this poem toyou, I just wanted to give you a
little call to action.
If this episode has spoke toyou or any other prior ones,
(43:18):
please consider following theshow, leaving a review, or
sharing it with someone whomight need it.
It's You can also support thepodcast at patreon.com slash
standing nowhere podcast.
And you can connect with us inour growing Discord community or
by email.
All the links are in thedescription.
And we're also on the socialsif you want to follow along
there.
So let's close out with a Rumipoem.
(43:39):
This is a poem that couldpossibly change the way you
experience your life.
So listen close.
The Guest House by Rumi.
This being human is a guesthouse.
Every morning, a new arrival, ajoy, a depression, a meanness.
(44:02):
Some momentary awareness comesas an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all,even if they're a crowd of
sorrows who violently sweep yourhouse empty of its furniture.
Still, Treat each guesthonorably.
He may be clearing you out forsome new delight.
(44:25):
The dark thought, the shame,the malice.
Meet them at the door laughingand invite them in.
Be grateful for whoever comesbecause each has been sent as a
guide from beyond.
Music (44:43):
This voice might fade like dust on the dial But I'm
standing nowhere and I've beenfor a while No heroes, no
headlines, no promises made Justa whisper that won't And then
(45:18):
nowhere it feels like home Noflags to wave, no need to roam
The silence speaks louder thanwar ever could And I've never
(45:41):
felt so alone static is kind itleaves me alone no orders to
follow no king on the throne thesky's turning amber the clock's
(46:08):
all reset and I haven't stoppedwalking No chains, no name, no
(46:32):
destiny.
The road dissolves, the skyturns white.
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