Cantina Banter #2 | Rian Johnson Talks Return To Star Wars? | Is Star Wars Loosing Hype? | LEGO Shrinkflation - Star Wars Escape Pod

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Subscribe, leave a voicemail, and share the show with a brother.

(00:21):
Star Wars Escape Pod is the pod for you.
There's the Republic's choice of podcast anywhere in the galaxy.
If you are tuning in right now, don't go anywhere.
Leave a review and make it a good one.
Empire today.
Empire today.

(00:43):
I thought that was a pretty good take.
Pray I don't alter my performance any further.
All right, welcome back to Star Wars Escape Pod
and our second episode to Cantina Banter.
With your co-host, Blake.
Welcome back, sir.
Ahoy.
Good to be back.

(01:04):
And this is an impromptu banter episode.
Yeah, impromptu indeed.
Because of scheduling mishap on my part,
we didn't actually get our guest this evening.
So look forward to hearing us speak with Francis next week.

(01:24):
Yeah.
Which, when it airs,
it'll be the best.
It'll be the best.
The week after.
That's true.
So anyway.
Okay, cool.
But yeah.
Hey, this is what Cantina Banter's for.
That's right.
This is why we have these intros.
These awesome intros.
To, you know, laid back.
Laid back style.

(01:46):
Yeah.
All right.
So believe it or not,
we do have like a few things on the soft roster here.
The soft schedule.
Penciled in, if you will.
I don't know about these soft pencils.
Spontaneously come,
come up with the subjects, I guess.
Uh, uh, it came up with the subjects.

(02:09):
What I meant to say.
Uh, yeah.
Anyway, man, this, this tune goes hard, doesn't it?
It goes for a long time.
All right, there we go.
Uh, okay.
First thing, uh, you know what?
No, I like it.
It would ever float your boat.
That's why you got it.
Yeah, we'll leave it coasting for a little bit.

(02:30):
Uh, Ryan Johnson.
Big news of the week.
You remember that guy?
I do.
Didn't he direct some sort of Star Wars movie?
I think he directed one of them.
I think, and there was a plan for him to do three more, if I'm not mistaken.
I think so.
Not that anyone saw those or maybe even knew about them.

(02:51):
I feel like maybe.
I feel like it was pretty hot topic on Twitter for a good while.
It was a hot topic on Mike Zero.
I think that's where it was.
It was a hot topic.
Man, I forgot about Mike Zero.
It's been a while.
He's still making stuff, man.
He's good for him.
That's awesome.
Yeah, still churning stuff out.
Before episode seven, I think I watched him quite often.

(03:12):
Yeah.
Man, that was like 10 years ago.
Oh, man.
Those were the days.
Those were the days when we were like grasping at straws, you know?
Grasping at straws.
They were pretty tight-lipped about episode seven.
Yeah, they were.
It wasn't really.
I don't know if I read it.
I didn't read anything that was accurate.
It was all just nonsense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was a speculation.

(03:32):
Yeah, a lot of speculation.
A lot of guessing.
Yeah.
A lot of wanting something to talk about to that day at lunchtime.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, Star Wars was such a hot topic.
It was just like the biggest clickbait thing you could do.
Oh, yeah.
There was just nonsense articles every day.
Yeah, for sure.
Oh, yeah.

(03:52):
Oh, yeah.
Like so much, so much stuff, you know?
But.
But here we are all these years later.
I mean, you know, it's a different time.
It is.
It feels slower.
Is that just me?
I feel like maybe it's the energy level.
The energy level feels lower.
I think it is the energy level.
I think it's like the excitement around stuff is like less.

(04:15):
Okay.
Is that like you've been feeling that too?
Because I've been very busy in my personal life last few years.
So I don't know if I just haven't had the time to invest like I have in the past.
Yeah.
Or if the vibe actually is lower.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Like burnout or or what?
I know people have talked a lot about having Marvel fatigue.
Yeah.
And I wonder.
I'm completely there.

(04:36):
I'm not interested in watching any more.
Yeah.
And I just wonder maybe if like Star Wars fans are a different kind of fan in the sense
where like, you know, once a fan, always a fan.
Like you're always going to appreciate stuff.
They survive the dark times.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's different in the sense of like, okay, you're still people are still people.
Right.
So like if you flood the market with like all this stuff.

(04:57):
I think like there's inevitably going to be some sort of, you know, emotional slowdown
with the excitement in the air, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, that's kind of how George played it.
Right.
Because it was really big with the original trilogy and then quiet.
And then the prequels were massive.
I don't think there was a toy on Earth that wasn't represented by Star Wars at that time.

(05:18):
Yeah.
And especially the Phantom Menace.
No, it's true.
And it's crazy.
You can tell that there's a different cultural change around how media is coming out nowadays.
Because those movies relied heavily on sponsors for product placement and also toys.
And ads on kids' television channels.
Yeah.
For a lot of that.

(05:38):
Especially, yeah, ads of like Pepsi and stuff.
Oh, yeah.
Pizza Hut.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, 100%.
I think I sent you guys, did I send you a video recently about the Star Wars Pepsi vending
machine by any chance?
I think we talked about it.
I don't remember a video.
Okay.
All right.
Because it jogs my memory now more.
Recently, they've, in the line of Disney's recent habits, making partnerships with the

(06:03):
Coca-Cola company, they're doing a whole lineup of Star Wars Coke cans now, right?
Oh, cool.
Which is neat.
Is that just for any specific series or show?
Or is it just for fun?
It's just like Coke cans with the characters' faces on it.
It's just a promotional thing.
It's weird that not being a push for some media thing, though.
Yeah.
And like, you know, I don't know why it's now.

(06:26):
Because like, there's nothing new.
There's nothing new coming out, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So I don't really know why it's now as opposed to later in the year or earlier, or maybe
when High Republic was coming out.
It could have been with Andor.
Yeah, yeah.
It could have been done at any point.
It could have just done it like six months ago and it would have been more hype, I guess.
Yeah, totally.
But no, yeah, it's before the Disney buyout, Lucasfilm had different partnerships, different

(06:51):
companies that they would-
Like Pepsi instead of Coke.
Like Pepsi instead of Coke, yeah.
And so someone-
Pizza Hut instead of Pizza 73.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Someone, someone, someone's-
I don't think that's true.
I'm making that up.
Yeah.
Jabba the, Jabba the Hut, Pizza Hut.
Yeah, it was Pizza the Hut.
Yeah, it was.
Which is funny because baseballs had a Pizza the Hut.
Someone, someone made this video of the Star Wars episode one Pepsi vending machine.

(07:16):
And here, let me just play this little short here.
That's awesome.
Oh, it's miniature.
Yeah.
It's got the George Lucas, John Trooper getting a soda.
Yeah.
Oh, my goodness.
It's battery operated with a light inside.

(07:38):
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, it's super sweet.
It's a replica.
It's a miniature replica version of the episode one Podracer Pepsi vending machine.
And yeah, this thing is like, this thing is crazy.
Like, like, I don't, I don't know if you've ever seen these in person.
A miniature one?
No.
Like, a full size one.

(08:01):
I remember the ads.
I don't know if I, I don't know if we had them in Canada.
There was, uh, yeah, here, here, here is an ad from like a long time ago here.
Pepsi commercial.
Mmm, that cheeseburger you do not want.
I do not want that cheeseburger.
Those fries give Yoda.
Here, have my fries.

(08:22):
Your drink desire you not.
The Diet Pepsi.
I do want.
Want you not.
Do not want.
This summer, grab a Diet Pepsi and see Star Wars Episode 3, Revenge of the Sith.
Just a great commercial, you know, like.
It was fun.

(08:43):
Yeah.
Well, I didn't realize it was Episode 3 until I saw CG Yoda.
Yeah, they had a Pepsi thing going on for the whole prequel trilogy.
And, uh.
Did they do a Yoda ad in, in, for Phantom Menace with the, like, burnt out looking Yoda?
I, uh, oh, man, I, I, I don't know.
The new puppet they made for Phantom Menace was, like, super sketchy.
Yeah.

(09:04):
Oh, man, that would be crazy.
I, uh, I, I saw this.
I, I'll, I'll try and, if I can remember, I'll, I'll put a link in the description below.
But, uh, this channel here, The Collector's Outpost, uh, YouTube channel on YouTube, uh,
this video that they did about the, uh, mini Pepsi Star Wars vending machine, uh, was just
a great video to watch.
Uh, they also talked a little bit of, uh, historical value as to why somebody made a

(09:28):
mini vending machine for Pepsis.
I'll just play, like, 20 seconds here, and then, uh.
Here's a good question.
Here's a good question to why he made that in the first place.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.
In a galaxy far, far away known as Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, at the Mount Washington Fire

(09:49):
Station lies a relic of a Pepsi vending machine.
This Pepsi machine is so popular that the fire department actually upkeeps the maintenance
on this, and Pepsi has actually donated money to the fire department in show of support.
Since 1999, this Phantom Menace Star Wars Pepsi machine has sat there for Star Wars
fans to come and enjoy.

(10:09):
To this day, decades later, Star Wars fans still travel out to this just to go there
and take selfies with.
And as a Star Wars fan and collector like myself, it's a little hard to, you know, see
something like that out in the wild and not say,
Oh, I want that in my life.
Where do I get one?
You know, I'm not even sure how many of those things actually exist in the world.
However, if you are a collector and you do want this vending machine, I might have the

(10:32):
next best option for you.
So, go and check out his video.
It was, uh, it was really great.
He holds up the little miniature vending machine there, and that was what we were watching
a short on.
But, uh, really cool stuff.
It's, it's, it was, it was big.
You know, Pepsi was big back then.
And, uh.
Is Pepsi not big now?
No, well, it was, is, I mean, I feel like it may have been bigger back then.
I don't know.
They had a lot more ads.

(10:54):
Yeah, they did.
And, uh, they, they certainly had the partnership with Star Wars, which, you know, it's not
around anymore.
So, uh, why don't we start talking about Pepsi again?
Oh, oh, yes.
We went on a tangent here.
Okay.
So, we were talking about the culture shift, right?
So.
Yeah.
But that originally spun out of us talking about Rian Johnson.
Right.
Yes.
We'll get back on track eventually as, as Cantina Banter goes.

(11:17):
This is how it is.
Uh, but, uh, yeah.
So, the culture shift is, um, a couple.
A couple words here.
One Lego set for Skeleton Crew.
One Lego set for Andor.
Man, I'm so bummed.
Four Lego sets for Ahsoka, right?
Like, like, we're talking hours.
And the Andor set was a downsize from the Rogue One version.
Yeah.

(11:37):
We're talking, well, I mean, okay, we'll talk about that later, but like with the shrink-flation
of Lego, but, um, as far as like the availability of merchandising and products and kids related
stuff, uh, which, you know, let's be honest, like a lot of adults are buying that stuff
too.
Um, it's just, it's just kind of shrinking away.
You know, it's almost like the need to have the money come in from products and toys and

(12:00):
stuff is just becoming less relevant now, uh, because they're making money through other
means.
Right.
And these are shows that are being developed for Disney plus.
So they're acquiring this, the financing for these projects in other, other ways.
Right.
Right.
Cause it's not independently owned.
Yeah.
And it's affecting other things.

(12:21):
Like it's affecting like what you, what you see on the shelf at the Lego store.
It's affecting like what kind of action figures are looking at at Toys R Us.
I always thought the, at least the Lego stuff, I thought the designers really got like a
lot of creative control of which things they wanted to make.
I think they do.
Um, I, I do believe that Lucasfilm has like a part to play in like what kind of sets are

(12:44):
released at what point when it comes to what the, what the sets trying to capture here.
Yeah.
Like there's, there is definitely a, a line of communication between, uh, them giving designs
for, uh, like a ship or a, a set or something like that in which the Lego designers that
take that make a set based on something along with minifigure designs.

(13:07):
And that goes through many months of progress.
And that's usually probably overlapping the production of a show.
Right.
I would think.
Yeah.
Cause a lot of times it launches like shortly after.
Yeah, exactly.
I think skeleton crew was one of the few sets that launched.
Weirdly a couple of months before the show came out.
Yeah.
That was pretty bizarre.
It was really strange, but, but that's what I mean.
Like this show pushed or is that just like a weird, no, I think, I think it may have just

(13:30):
been like a weird circumstance kind of thing, but I didn't think it released late.
I thought that it seemed like it was on schedule.
Yeah.
And they get this zero accolade Lego at all.
Nothing true.
Nothing at all.
Do you think this also has to do with like, you know, land or I guess ruins, I was gonna
say like age of the show, but and or sort of older audience and they made a set for that.
And I still got one.

(13:51):
I got one.
Yeah.
One between two seasons.
Right.
So it's not a lot.
I think they're still putting out stuff for Clone Wars and the original trilogy though.
Clone Wars was like the greatest gift George ever gave almost in some ways.
Like it's like feeding the fandom forever.
You know, there's always saying is George figure I had a way to make profit forever.

(14:13):
Yeah, I think so.
I think, I think, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was the idea.
You know, eight seasons.
What if, what have gone forever?
It's all like forever.
It's great because the kids get old and they don't want anymore new kids come up and they
just give me their money.
So then they get old and then some more kids as I grow up and they give me their money.

(14:35):
So it just, it just endless money.
It's great.
That's when you make a sequel show like the Bad Batch and you, you make a little more
capture the next generation of kids.
Where's that?
Where's the button?
Which, which button?
The yogurt button.
Okay.
The yogurt button.
The yoga, Yoda button.
Yogurt.
Yogurt.
For space balls.

(14:56):
Oh, merchandise.
That's the one.
Oh man.
I think, uh, I don't think I have this on the soundboard.
Actually.
I got to put that on there.
Yeah.
It's on, it's on our discord.
It's on our discord soundboard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I haven't learned anything.
All right.
I'll be one.
Calm down.
Calm down.

(15:17):
Uh, but, uh, yeah.
Anyway.
So, uh, big culture shift, loss of Pepsi, all that stuff.
Anyway.
Um, so how do we get onto this from Ryan Johnson?
I forget.
Vibes.
Yeah.
It's all Ryan Johnson's fault.
I'm just kidding.
Well, it's kind of semi-related because I feel like the toy sales, I think the sequel
movies undersold the toys they were expecting.

(15:38):
And now a lot of toys companies I think are more hesitant to make stuff for anything new.
That's why they keep putting us.
I was going to say that while they keep putting all this stuff for like the Clone Wars era
or original trilogy.
Yeah.
They're always, always all this new stuff coming out.
It's like they're, they're afraid to risk new product.
Right.
I thought, you know, I think so.
And you know, it's a shame because like, not that I have room for more stuff around here,

(16:00):
but like it's, it's nice to see, uh, the excitement around Star Wars, which is at its, uh, in
its historical track record.
Um, a lot of the excitement has been generated from the sale of merchandising.
Oh yeah.
You know, it's like going back to like the direct Empire Strikes Back.
Right.
Yeah.
Like I feel like

(16:21):
Was it New Hope?
Uh,
Cause then toys came out after the movie.
They had a rushed production.
Right.
So I guess, I guess there's been no ads except for the movie itself.
I knew Hope had less, but like, I feel like, yeah, it was like, it was like a huge thing
for Empire, like tons of toys.
Right.
And then,
Cause that's when George realized that's where the money is.
Yeah.
And, and also I think at one point between the two movies, I think Star Wars came back

(16:42):
into theaters again and they, they rescreened it again before, before Empire came out.
That was when it was, um, renamed, I believe.
Oh really?
Okay.
I think so.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Feel free to call me.
I don't know if that's, if I got the wrong year, but, uh, but yeah, that's, uh, I think
that's when it was given the, a New Hope title and, um, episode four.

(17:02):
So cool.
Yeah.
So anyway,
So there's news about Ryan Johnson.
Yeah.
There's news about Ryan Johnson.
Um, maybe you can give some historical value to, uh, why we're talking about Ryan Johnson.
Well, it was announced that he would do his own.
Trilogy.
And then after the sequels finished, just kind of faded into the shadows and a lot of

(17:25):
people didn't thought they were just secretly shelving it and just didn't want to say anything.
But no matter what Ryan Johnson, he held, he stuck his heels down and he never gave
away.
If anyone asked, he said it was coming out, he was still working on it.
So is there finally an update?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is there, is there, um, definitely worth looking at the original interview for the role, uh,

(17:48):
the, the original interview is on rolling stone.com.
Uh, so go to the link down in the description below and we'll have a link to it there.
Um, but, uh, the, uh, the takeaway here is a question that, that they, they asked Ryan,
uh, when they were talking, talking to him about stuff, uh, the question is what happened
to, uh, or with the other Star Wars trilogy that were, uh, talks of you doing.

(18:13):
And Ryan says, this is his reply.
Nothing really happened with it.
We had a great time working together and they said, let's keep doing it.
I said, great.
I would kick ideas around with Kathy.
The short version is knives out happened.
I went off and made knives out and was off to the races, busy making murder mysteries.
It's the sort of thing if down the line, there's an opportunity to do it or do something else

(18:36):
in Star Wars.
Uh, I would be thrilled, but right now I'm just doing my own stuff and pretty happy.
And uh, they asked how far did you get in terms of an idea?
Was there a whole thing mapped out?
Or at least, uh, what were the first of those would be?
And he says, it was all very conceptual.
I made knives out fairly quickly after, uh, there was never any outline or treatment or

(18:59):
anything.
And then they followed up with the question, are there certain kinds of movies that you
have not yet made that you would like to make?
And then he says, yeah, absolutely.
I would love to do a musical at some point.
I'm a big musical fan, uh, any kind of, uh, movie I haven't made yet.
I would like to make, it's a little bit of a, you know, I think it goes on about a musical
and stuff like that.
So, uh, yeah, it's, that was it.

(19:21):
That was all he said.
And, um, I feel like the Brian Johnson star was trilogy kind of sits in this bin of, uh,
unused ideas.
So cause some stuff did they publicly announce they've announced that they've shelved stuff
before.
Yeah.
They they've shelved officially.
They've shelved two things.
They've shelved Rangers of the new Republic, the TV show or the Disney plus show.

(19:43):
Then they've shelved, uh, rogue squadron X-Wing shows.
The Patty.
Jenkins, uh, movie that would have come out.
And I think star fighter is technically kind of a stand in for rogue, like the spiritual
stand in.
That's what it kind of seems like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In a different era, of course.
And if it does well, maybe we'll get our rogue squadron or something.
Yeah.

(20:04):
Different director and everything like that.
I feel like whatever happened with Patty Jenkins though, like, you know, I don't remember hearing
any negative reason as to why it fell through.
Yeah.
I feel like it was all completely scheduling and, and this and that, and maybe just try
to get a script off the ground, but they did a huge promotional like video for it and
everything with Patty Jenkins getting into an X-Wing fighter and talking about how her

(20:26):
dad was in like the mill, the, the air force.
Oh man.
You know, that's pretty cool.
That was that celebration.
Cause I remember them talking about it at celebration.
Yeah.
It was like, I think they did it for celebration or, um, or maybe it was for a comic con or
something like that.
Like that.
Maybe.
Um, here I got, I got it.
I got the audio right here.
Here we go.

(20:47):
It's a one minute and 30 second little like blurb here, so let's take a listen.
I love to move fast and speed of any kind.
I think that that's because I grew up the daughter of a great fighter pilot and every
day I would wake up and go outside and look up and see my father and his squadron taking

(21:11):
off and their F4s roaring across the sky.
And it was the most thrilling thing.
Still I've experienced in my entire life.
So when he lost his life in service to this country, I, it ignited a desire to in me to
turn all of that tragedy and thrill into one day making the greatest fighter pilot

(21:34):
movie of all time.
But try as I might and look as I did, I couldn't find the right story ever.
I kept looking and looking, but I just couldn't find the right one until now.
Okay.
Now I found a movie about two things I love, so I'm going to see you very soon.
She just puts on an X-wing helmet and an orange jumpsuit and she's walking over it's an X-wing.

(22:11):
Yeah.
And then the title card Rogue Squadron.
I still think it's a good idea.
It's kind of.
Honestly, a little bit brutal that like did this heartfelt thing for her and then just
nothing happened.
Yeah, I know.
It sucks.
Like, I mean, I, I wish, I hope that the movie happens for her is just, it just seems so
unlikely at this point that when you have to come back around to the original trilogy

(22:32):
era of shows, which I guess they just did and or, but yeah, I mean like, I don't think
anyone would be opposed to it or anything, but it's just like, you know, these, these
kinds of things happen where time goes by the moment has passed.
And you know, the idea kind of fades.
Right.
And it's just like, okay, well now we've got these other things on the roster.
We want to do these other projects.

(22:52):
What's funny is I feel like I'm personally more interested in that Rogue Squadron movie
than some of the other announced stuff.
Yeah.
Cause now they've announced multiple projects.
They've got the Dave Filoni movie, Ahsoka season two in the works.
Dave Filoni.
The movie.
They've got the Star Wars Squadrons movie filming this fall.
They have the Mandalorian and Grogu coming out next year.

(23:13):
They have the, uh.
Yeah.
They have, um, the, uh, Dawn of the Jedi movie, theoretically possibly happening with
James Mangold, the helm of that.
And then they have the new Jedi order Ray movie that's being helmed, you know, allegedly
by, uh, the director of the Marvel Miss Marvel show.
And Daisy Ridley would be returning to show, uh, to star in that movie.

(23:38):
So the, you know, they have a, a, a pretty full schedule.
Yeah.
I don't know.
They would fit that in.
Those are all.
Are they movies?
Those aren't shows?
Uh, well, Starfighter, new Jedi order, Dave Filoni's movie and the James Mangold, Dawn
of the Jedi.
I think those are all movies.
So that's four with a fifth being Mandalorian and Grogu coming out next year.
So we know nothing about this Dave Filoni movie other than he's just making a movie.

(24:01):
It'll very likely take place in, uh, as a stand in for, uh, spiritual successor for
Ahsoka and Mandalorian and, and most likely take place within the new Republic era.
Right.
So that's the penciled in outline at the moment.
Right.
So adding another thing back into that, it's like, okay, where do we fit this in?

(24:24):
Disney's planning years in advance.
I mean like their, their Marvel, uh, brand brings in so much box office on an annual
basis.
Still.
Still.
I mean like it's less, but still, still brings in a lot of money.
So, uh, you know, they have to plan these, these release dates, like, you know, years
in advance.
And they obviously don't want it competing with one of their own.

(24:44):
Right.
Yeah.
Within a few weeks.
It's extra tricky.
Once you have a monopoly in the film industry and you're competing with yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're competing with themselves essentially.
And then, and then it's also like, you know, it's one of those things like, okay, what
are we competing against?
Because you know, the weekend that say, uh, Lilo and stitch kits, the theater, you know,
what else can people look, uh, if they're only going to buy one ticket, you know, what,

(25:08):
what else would they, would they go to see, right.
Tuesday only comes around once a week.
Yeah.
You don't want to go to the movie on Tuesdays.
Let's be honest.
Well, and some people just don't go to the theater as much anymore or, or, or not at all.
And anyone's sad.
Sad decade.
You can almost argue that what broke the pattern was COVID COVID COVID is the reason that the
theaters have not quite recovered yet.

(25:30):
Um, do you think it's coming?
I feel like because so many young people grew up in that period of not going to the theater,
they also just don't have an interest in going to the theater.
Yeah.
It is sad.
I mean, you know, I hope that there's a resurgence for her going to the cinema.
But, um, and, and I, I think like some of these CEOs are having to get really creative
with how they make, um, an entertainment multiplex, you know, like, like you're seeing arcades

(25:55):
and other things like restaurants and, uh, certain services, like in other, other things
for like VIP theaters or you can like 19 plus, you can have drinks and alcohol and, and your
dinner, like with the movie in a heated reclinable seat, you know, like there's like, see, it's
the same thing with Lego.
So there's a lot of things they're doing so they can't really be like, Oh yeah, we
can't make the movie because we're not getting paid enough for that.

(26:16):
So, you know, it's, it's a lot of work and it's, it's just like, you know, it's a very
good thing that they're making this movie.
I don't know if the great stuff is that they're putting out these extra expensive sets.
They're now catering to the audience that still shows up.
Right.
Cause they're all older.
Yeah.
That's what they want.
They want to have a drink and recline.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And then there's also, um, you know, like screen acts, which is like the peripheral
vision theater, you know, you got screens on the left and the right and the front
by Elon Musk.
No, it's just, it's actually a company that, that does screen X, not, not nothing to do

(26:39):
with Musk.
Uh, but I'm sure he would probably buy it in a heartbeat, at least the license, the
name.
Yeah, exactly.
Uh, but yeah, I mean like they have to get more creative, right?
Like they have to get, and even still they have to keep pushing the demands of the audience
to try and, uh, it sucks because I feel like it's harder now to keep someone's attention

(27:01):
and, um, more so now than ever, cause there's so many ways to entertain somebody.
Well, so much more competition.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like nowadays you can go to a VR arcade, you know, and like have an entire room to yourself
with like seven other friends and like compete in a, in a, uh, zombie survival shooter game
for the same price as going go-karting for an hour and a half or 45 minutes, um, or something

(27:27):
like that.
Or going to see two movies in the theater where you're sitting.
And that might not necessarily be the kind of thing that you and your social group want
to do because you are just sitting in a dark room together watching a movie, right?
So yeah, there is a lot of harsh competition out there for entertainment now.
Yeah.
I mean, just thinking back to our era, if there was nothing good on, on television because
it was all on a set schedule, you couldn't pick what you wanted, then you'd throw in

(27:50):
a Star Wars VHS.
Yeah, exactly.
Or you go to the video store, you go, you go to the blockbuster or, you know, and you
rent, you rent something.
Like there's an entire.
There's an entire business that has been, uh, just trampled over by streaming services
because of, uh, you know, just them wanting to, I mean, it's just, it's at the end of

(28:12):
the day, it's the answer is money, right?
You know, it's a, it's a, it was a money-making idea and it was a successful money-making
idea that now all these other companies are being competitive over to try and grab your
attention to be their consumer for, for that money-making idea.
Right.
Um, so it's like for creatives in the entertainment industry.
For people like Ryan Johnson here, you know, to, to be, um, at, uh, essentially subject

(28:36):
to that on top of, uh, release schedules, money available to make the project that he
wants to make as well as, uh, creative interests in what are these movies about?
What kind of era are we like making these movies in right now?
Like, does it work with our strategy for developing a new Jedi order and a donut of a Jedi era

(28:58):
simultaneously?
Man, there's a lot of hurdles.
There's a ton of hurdles.
Right.
And so like on the one hand, it's like, it doesn't surprise me that it's not happened,
that nothing's happened yet.
Yeah.
But on the other hand, it's like, will it happen?
You know?
And like the answer is probably like most likely not.
I think they know they just never wanted to say anything official because they always
wanted to leave the door open.
Yeah, I think so.
I think that's, and that's probably the best way to leave it and put it really is like,

(29:21):
you know, anytime that this comes up, it's like, it's in the same state that it was,
you know, two days ago is the same state that it was in two years ago.
And, uh, you know, the short answer is like, yeah, they're just,
leave them the door open in case they ever want to do it again.
And the kind of news that gets around, I feel like that kind of news of Ryan Johnson doing
a Star Wars trilogy, um, would not be news 15, 20 years ago.

(29:41):
Like that would be behind closed doors, but now everything's very public, right?
Like everything's, everyone knows everything now.
So it's, uh.
Yeah.
It's hard to keep that stuff under wraps.
And when we're listening or when you're reading the quote of Ryan replying, I couldn't help
but think how many times has he been asked this in the last like eight years?
Yeah.

(30:01):
Probably too many.
Probably a lot.
Probably too many times.
Yeah.
He, um, he does go on to give his opinions about some things in the rise of Skywalker
as well as, uh, some questions that they asked about, uh, the last Jedi all these years later,
you know, like, um, and I feel like it's one of those things, you know, Star Wars is for
anyone who even touches Star Wars is the gift that keeps on giving because it's a conversation

(30:23):
starter.
So, you know, here he is, uh, how long has it been since his movie came out?
Like eight years, six, seven years, maybe.
Somewhere in there.
Seven, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh, 2017.
So what's that like?
Yeah.
Eight.
Yeah.
Like eight years.
Yeah.
So eight years.
Absolutely.
Uh, so, uh, yeah.

(30:43):
So like all these years later and they're still asking him about like what inspired
you to, uh, put a ship into hyperspace into another ship, you know?
And like, there's, there's like this, the questions like that are still being asked
and it's like, okay.
Eight years later.
Yeah.
And, uh.
Oh my gosh.
And it's here in the article.
It's funny.
Like George was asked his entire life and I feel like he just got like, so over it.

(31:04):
Yeah.
I feel like it was just like everyone who works on a Star Wars movie that just takes
on the mantle of like what George had to deal with.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Um, so yeah, I feel like it's the gift that keeps on giving you never so much has come
out since then that you think people would have moved on to whatever the new thing is
and ask, ask questions about that.
Yeah.

(31:25):
Yeah, definitely.
Um, but you know, that's the thing is like, like Star Wars is just such a special thing
like it's never not going to go away.
Like once you touch it, it's like, it just sticks with you forever.
It's like, uh, it's like glue, um, especially for all these, these directors that are there,
they're tied to it.
Their whole career in the future after they do a Star Wars movie is tied to the, uh, to

(31:46):
the outcome of, of those movies, you know?
Uh, so yeah, it can be a very nerve wracking thing to do.
Was Ryan Johnson, uh, did he play a part like a small part in Rogue One?
Cause I thought he traded with Gareth Edwards.
Am I crazy about that?
Yeah.
He cameoed in the last Jedi.
Yeah.
But did they do it the other way around?
I thought it was some thing between them.
I don't know.

(32:06):
He may have cameoed in the, in, in Rogue One.
It wasn't as like direct though.
Right.
But he was kind of fun.
I'm just thinking, sorry, I'm gonna go off with Gareth Edwards cause, cause he also was
the one who got the plans for Vader, right?
He played that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he did that.
And he was episode eight.
It was like the same character.
Yeah.
Just like didn't age.
Oh man.

(32:26):
Like a time Lord.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, anyway, that's the, that's the Ryan Johnson news this week.
I mean, like anytime I see him on it behind the scenes, he's always such a like happy
jolly guy.
Yeah.
It does always seem like he's in a good mood and considering how much flack he got online,
like it's, it's unfortunate, you know, like that he got all the flag, like it, like it's

(32:48):
good on them for like keeping a good attitude.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I mean, it's, it's, it sucks that he was delivered.
The one segment of a story.
That he was delivered because I feel like if I was, if I was to watch a Ryan Johnson
star Wars movie where he had creative Liberty to like do whatever he wanted to do and not

(33:10):
necessarily be limited by the ending of somebody else's movie to set up his movie.
Yeah.
It's hard to be right.
And direct the middle part.
Yeah.
And also to, to set it up so that someone can finish off a trilogy for your story, you
know, like it's like, it's a tough thing to do.
And, and.
You know, I feel like even though force awakens was a successful financial hit, um, it was

(33:34):
still not widely accepted by just everybody, right?
Like
Well, I had the same story arc as Phantom Menace first came out and everyone was very
excited about it.
Then over time people started to nitpick it and then the tides turned, right.
It was like identical to the Phantom Menace.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
You know, in, in many ways, um, it had the same kind of, uh, energy behind the audience.

(33:57):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I maintain to get fan approval across the board, at least majority of the sequel trilogy,
they just need to make an additional trilogy and then everyone will be upset with that
one.
And suddenly what we have wasn't so bad.
The sequel sequels.
That's right.
Uh, all right.

(34:17):
So, uh, we're going to transition here, uh, because, uh, I think we do have, uh, two other
things that we wanted to bring up, but, um, yeah, one, one thing, uh, a little bit of
a more light, hard thing, um, uh, friend of yours, friend of ours asked a question, uh,
personal head cannon.
Okay.
What Canon legends material isn't included in your personal head cannon is included is

(34:41):
or isn't, uh, included in your personal head cannon.
And why I got an easy one, Darth Plagueis, just going to say Darth Plagueis, the novel
by James Luceno easily considered.
Yes.
In my head cannon.
This entire book happened.
It ties so much together.
The fact that it hasn't been recanonized.
Yeah.
It's ridiculous.
I know.
I know.
It's, it's, it's stupid.
Honestly.

(35:01):
I was like, I kind of, I kind of wished that they, I kind of hope that they don't continue
telling the Darth Plagueis story in the acolyte, because I know that it's not going to live
up to the Darth Plagueis book.
Right.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, it's like, do you think that's where they're going to go with it?
I think they were going to read, retell a story with Darth Plagueis in that time period

(35:22):
and make it the Canon version.
I think they were going to completely ignore any events of that book.
Which then would have upset a lot of people.
Myself included.
Yeah.
Yeah, it would have.
It would have upset a lot of people.
It would have upset me.
You know, and I think it wasn't, wasn't, wasn't great on top of the existing stigma around
that show in the first place, you know, and then to maybe if they did get her season two

(35:44):
and did get a chance to tell more with Darth Plagueis, like as cool as that could be, I'm
also kind of worried that it would like drastically negatively affect, you know, Star Wars fans.
I feel like everyone would be really mad because everyone loves that book.
It is a really good book.
Everyone.
Not if Star Wars fan I've met hasn't read, like hasn't loved that book.
If people read it.

(36:05):
Yeah.
If people have read it.
I'm surprised Dave hasn't done anything and taken any steps to canonize it, even through
the Clone Wars and stuff.
I think that would be one of my like 10 questions.
If I had 10 questions I asked Dave Filoni, like that would definitely be on the list.
Dave, what's wrong with you?
Why haven't you canonized this book yet?
Well, I don't know.
Yeah.
Disney bought us.

(36:25):
Yeah.
One of the canceled arcs.
I think like, you know, another, another thing that is, I'm, I'm, I'm of the mind that everything
that they do, it, it just, it happened.
You know what I mean?
Like some people have the ability to be like, no, I can just forget about that story.
It's like, it's dead to me.
It just never happened.

(36:46):
You know?
Cause like.
Even in the EU you're talking?
Yeah.
It's just like, no, not EU, but just like canon storylines.
Official canon.
Okay.
Official canon.
You know?
Yeah.
Like the Asajj revival.
Yeah.
Even the Asajj.
Yeah.
Even the Ventress.
Ventress revival.
Like, I feel like, okay, I'm not happy about it, but at the same time I'm like, okay, well

(37:06):
it happened.
It means that they're planning on bringing this character back.
I guess we'll wait and see, but some people are able to be like, you know what?
I just hate the sequel so much.
I'm going to forget that they ever existed, you know?
And then they just refuse to, and they just like, they're okay with that.
And I'm like, I don't know how.
Well, we can get away with it for now.
Because let's be honest, the sequels and the original trilogy, even though they take place

(37:29):
right after one another, it doesn't, the way they made the sequels, it doesn't feel that
connected.
So you can kind of get away with it, at least for now.
Yeah.
And like, you know, it's, it's, I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Crack that open.
Yeah.
I feel like it's one of those things that just, it puzzles me a little bit because I

(37:51):
wish I could turn that part of my brain off.
That, you know, nags at me when I don't like something because it exists, they make drugs
for that, but Star Wars is different.
You see, because if you look at DC or you look at Marvel, those mythologies, if you
will, are ever growing, they're ever expanding and it's easy enough for a storyteller to

(38:17):
come in kind of like James Gunn comes in and he hits the reboot button and he just tells
a whole new story.
And then he goes all over again with different cast, keeps the bits that he wants to make
and just calls it a different universe.
Right.
Right.
And it, the same thing with Marvel.
And it's like, you got three Spider-Mans, you got three Spider-Mans told across say
like 15, 20 years of worth of movies.

(38:38):
And they all got to be in the same Spider-Man movie.
And it was a blockbuster hit, it made a billion dollars and it's like that kind of, that kind
of storytelling.
In animation you mean?
No.
In live action, like Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield, Tom Holland.
When was that?
When was this?
Yeah.
Like, like three years ago.
I don't think I watched that one.
Okay.
Well, it was one of the best Spider-Man movies ever made.

(39:01):
Oh, I should watch it.
Cause I actually like Spider-Man, but.
And I can't believe I spoiled that for you.
Isn't it like Spider-Man, no work from home or something?
It's yeah.
It's a Spider-Man.
Homework battle.
Yeah.
No, no, no way home.
Okay.
Yeah.
I got to think about that for a second.
But yeah.
His names are so generic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(39:21):
And then there's, and then there's there's other mythologies like that, that don't necessarily
do well under a reboot, you know, there's mythologies like the Lord of the Rings or
even Harry Potter.
Right.
Where.
I think often it depends on how good the original was because that bar for both of those are

(39:42):
so high.
Yeah.
And exactly.
And you keep asking yourself, like, how is it possible for anyone to remake this cinematic
blockbuster masterpiece in a better way?
At all?
It can't really be done.
It can't really be done.
And, and so with, that's why I'm still like, I mean, we're not a Harry Potter podcast here,
but like, I'm still puzzled as to the possible miserable downfall of this HBO series that

(40:06):
they plan to do.
They're doing it because it's been so long since the other movies to keep the fan base
like growing, they need to redo it to make it allowed to grow with another younger audience.
Well, see, like that's where the fantastic beast movies came in.
Yeah.
They just did not catch on.
They didn't.
And they could have, they could have shifted.
They could have pivoted and shifted gears and changed how they were doing prequel Harry

(40:29):
Potter movies.
Right.
It should have just been at Hogwarts.
It could have just been different kids.
They could have done anything.
They could have done fine.
They could have done anything in that same world.
And I don't know about that because to be honest, this is my opinion.
If it's not at Hogwarts, it doesn't feel like Harry Potter.
It can be in the wizarding world, but it just feels like a generic magical fantasy movie.
I guess.

(40:50):
So I guess that's why I probably agreed with you, which is why the fantastic beast movies
like didn't do as well financially.
Right.
But, but it was also the COVID kind of killed the series as well because the third one came
out during the pandemic.
Right.
So I couldn't, well, it was like they were filming, right?
So they also had to film people independently or something.
Well, it, it released during the pandemic.
They were, they were done filming, but it released during the pandemic.

(41:11):
All post-production was in during pandemic and you know, that definitely affected the
sales a lot.
And they took a huge hit from that.
But the theme parks, the merchandise.
There's Warner Brothers.
Yeah.
The Lego sets.
Yeah.
Warner Brothers.
Yeah.
Everything is all based on the live action film.
So you've built up this idea of how things look and how things feel.
Right.
And now it's going to be completely different in this other retelling.

(41:32):
Right.
And it's just.
Are they aesthetically changing it quite a lot?
Like have they released pictures or anything?
If I was to guess, I would say yes.
Like it's not going to necessarily.
So this is speculation is what you're telling me.
This is speculation.
Well, I mean, first off, there's a new kid who is not Daniel Radcliffe, right?
But like.
Yeah.
I would imagine that everything will be different to go along with that.

(41:52):
I think the castle will look slightly different.
I think it'll have the same idea behind it.
Kind of like if I play Hogwarts Legacy, the video game, like it looks like Hogwarts and
it has the same silhouette and everything, but it's different, you know, and it's it's
fundamentally different than the one that I'm used to from the movie.
So I feel like that's what the show is going to be like.
And I feel like Star Wars is one of those series that you can go into it with this idea

(42:14):
that let's hit the reboot button eventually when people get completely utterly sick of
it or done it done with it and they want to, you know, kind of like Star Trek.
Right.
But even Star Trek was in a different universe.
Right.
And it was like, you know, parallel to they don't want to make everyone mad.
That's why.
Yeah.
And it's like, how how do you do that with Star Wars?
Like it's it's it literally is a growing mythology in modern day.

(42:39):
Like it's the one point there was rumors that Disney was going to hit the reboot and like
start over like how they did, like the X-Men first class.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, again, that's a comic book thing.
Like it's in the in the literature from like like the mythology of the comic book universe.
Star Wars allows for that to happen.
But yeah, exactly.
It doesn't it doesn't work with Star Wars like it's it's never it's never going to work

(43:01):
with Star Wars.
Right.
And so because of these characters are tied to those actors, it would not be the same.
But I guess you could argue the same thing with Daniel Radcliffe.
But and like what happens with that?
The other way to look at it is like Disney has made their investment back like they've
clearly made billions of dollars on.
On whatever they paid for the Lucasfilm as a company and the Star Wars rights.

(43:22):
You know, like they've got the theme park set up.
I did that from the first movie.
They've yeah.
Like they've brought in however many hundreds of millions of dollars to Disney parks because
of Star Wars.
Right.
They have brought in so much money from merchandising.
They've brought in however many millions upon billions of dollars from both Disney Plus

(43:42):
stuff.
And even though Disney Plus doesn't really make any money at the moment, but, you know,
the idea being it's going to be, it's going to be profitable.
New imagery in front of people that sell new toys and products.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So like they've definitely made their money back.
Like Force Awakens paid it back like almost half instantly.
Yeah.

(44:03):
Right.
And it's like, OK, you know, the sequel trilogy paid for that was what the sequel trilogy
was for.
It was to pay for the company.
And yeah, it makes sense.
Yeah.
That sucks to think of it like that.
But that's that's what it was for.
So we're in this period of time now.
Where it's like we don't have the hype of getting an episode seven, eight, nine.
So like, where do they take it?
You know, and it's it's a weird spot.

(44:24):
Yeah, it is.
And we've totally fell off the headcanon train here.
But entirely.
Darth Plagueis.
Yeah.
Sweet spot.
That's a good one.
Can you think of anything else?
I know they're going to be more than I feel like I personally until we see it take place
on screen, which feels like that's where it's going, but I don't really know, I would still

(44:46):
argue.
And I think the Throne Trilogy is accurate in my head.
Yeah, OK.
It's altered slightly now like Ahsoka and stuff, but I feel like the big story beats
could still fit the spirit of the story.
Yeah.
Yeah.
OK.
All right.
It was kind of kind of yeah.
Makes sense to you in your head.
Yeah.
I'm also going to say that Boba Fett still has clone cancer.

(45:06):
I'd be down for that.
I think that's a good story arc.
I wish they would do that.
It's it's really unique.
It is a good.
It's something that only he would have happened to him because he was a villain.
I mean, he was like, Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because he was created in a lab.
See, I'm very different in that sense where I'm not able to fit a lot of Legends material in my head anymore.

(45:29):
But like Tor.
You played Tor, right?
Tor is...
I have played Tor.
Tor is one of those games that is so far behind the narrative of modern...
Like time gap, you mean?
Yeah, like modern canon books.
Like the earliest of canon books and the stories that they share is still like that game takes place way before then.

(45:50):
So like...
And I've never been overly attached to Tor as far as the narrative goes.
But like...
It got pretty out there by the end.
Yeah, like if elements of it were to be kept canon and the villains...
And I know they have like canonized some people from before that game takes place like Darth Bane.
And maybe it's after that game takes place.
So close to getting Revan.
So close.

(46:11):
But yeah, like some things have like been recanted.
Canonized, which, you know, I'm aware of.
But...
The original KOTOR game is canon in my head, for sure.
Like Revan and stuff.
Revan.
Yeah, the whole narrative of Revan.
I feel like I'd be down with that.
Like I'd be okay...
It fits really well.
Yeah.
And like until it's overwritten by something else, I feel like in my head it can still exist.

(46:33):
With the Thrawn trilogy, like you were saying, how you're able to kind of parallel that with everything else.
I don't...
Like I'm not really able to do that just because like there's so much stuff that happens after...
Episode 6.
And it's almost hard to believe that...
Right.
That that like scale of narrative would have been able to fit in amongst all these other stories.
It's not as big as you think.

(46:55):
Well, like the whole like...
Basically Thrawn, he finds experimental Star Destroyers that can be used remotely, basically.
Like drones.
And he uses that to fight the New Republic with like unmanned ships, basically.
Like a really small Imperial faction.
Well, I guess like there's parts of it that...
Like that would fit fine.

(47:16):
But wasn't like Mara Jade in it?
Mara Jade did exist, yes.
And that guy, Jacaerys, what's his name?
Sorry?
Was that guy Jacobob?
Oh.
The wizard.
Yeah, yeah.
You're talking about the clone Jedi.
Yeah, the clone Luke or something, right?
No, he clones Luke.
Oh, he clones Luke.

(47:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, man.
See, that kind of stuff, right?
Like that kind of stuff that I'm like...
I'm mostly thinking about like specifically Thrawn.
The story arc.
Okay, okay, okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's fair.
That's fair.
Like pieces and bits of it.
But maybe we'll get that story in...
I would like Mara Jade to be canon.
I mean, I feel like...
There's still technically no reason for her not to be.

(47:56):
Dude, technically it could still happen.
Yeah.
It could still happen.
If they can...
They still have time between...
She could die and then...
Maybe that's the real reason why Luke was depressed.
Yeah, maybe.
Maybe that...
Maybe the...
Maybe that is her gravestone he's looking at.
The Ben thing was just the last straw.
Yeah.
And the...
No, don't forget our Lando book with him and Luke.

(48:18):
Luke is in the Lando book.
This is a non-canon?
Shadows of the Sith?
No, it's a canon book.
That's canon.
Okay, okay.
We're talking about non-canon.
That's what I was trying to think we were talking about.
Well, between...
Well, like talking about like fitting that story into canon.
Like I feel like there's enough time between that book
and the last time that we see him in canon
that they could throw her in.
Kind of like how they like managed to cram Thrawn into the Rebels era.

(48:42):
Right.
Like there's still time...
There's still time that they could put her in
and get rid of her before the sequel trilogy
and the narratives that we've had so far with him
and books with Lando and stuff like that.
At least until we get these films coming out soon.
Yeah.
The rest of Mandalorian stuff and...
Right.
Dave Filoni's movie.
Like the gap was closing.
So like time...

(49:02):
Quickly.
Time was running out.
Come on.
So, you know, get her in there.
Yes.
Still not hope.
Exactly.
But yeah.
I had another one.
Well, I would say like Exar Kun
and a lot of like the old Sith.
Oh, yeah.
Super, super ancient stories.
Yeah.
And like the splitting of the Jedi and the Sith.
Oh, I was going to say Durge.
And to be honest,

(49:22):
as you're going to be so upset with me, Josh,
but the 2D Clone Wars,
it's still canon in my head.
Because it's awesome.
Especially because in the 3D,
they never successfully finished it.
So they never got to do the attack on Coruscant.
That's true.
Which is like the best part.
It is true.
The 2D Clone Wars does tell stories
that the 3D Clone Wars does not.

(49:42):
Yeah.
The 2D Clone Wars stories
could still somewhere fit in the narrative.
You know what I mean?
The only thing that I know for sure wouldn't fit
is that Asajj Ventress dies.
Originally dies.
But she falls to her death.
So you never actually see her die.
No.
But then in the 2D Clone Wars series,
they never bring her back either.
No.
But it was a micro series.
I mean, we're talking like...

(50:03):
And after that,
I think it jumps to closer to Revenge of the Sith.
Yeah, it does.
There's two volumes.
We're talking like a total of maybe
like two and a half hours worth
of content that's supposed to span
three years worth of Star Wars narrative.
Yeah.
I feel like you could slot them in.
There's definitely like areas
to slot those stories in for sure.
So, yeah.
And I'm still chapped that Clone Wars

(50:25):
never like made a story that
how Anakin got his scar.
I know, man.
I'm still chapped about that.
How did they miss that?
I don't know.
Because like I rewatched...
I thought it was from the Asajj fight.
But I rewatched it.
It's not.
He just comes back from battle
at some point.
He just has the scar.
Yeah.
And he's like, oh, what happened?

(50:45):
And he just kind of like looks away.
Well, you know what?
You know why the lore exists
that he got it from Asajj Ventress
is because in one of the visual dictionaries
it lists his scar as given to him
by Asajj Ventress.
Okay.
Because that makes the most sense to me
where it would come from.
Yeah.
It was from...
I think it was the Revenge of the Sith
visual dictionary.
That was where we first learned about that.

(51:06):
Okay, good.
So, I wasn't crazy.
I thought I might have just...
No.
Yeah, you're not crazy.
No, it's been a thing for a while
that's remained...
Fairly, you know, ambiguous to figure out.
And back to why I brought it up.
Durge.
Durge is awesome.
Durge is awesome.
He is such a cool character
that actually seemed formidable to a Jedi
who wasn't a Force.
It's honestly, I think,
one of Clone Wars'

(51:27):
The Clone Wars 3D animated series.
One of their biggest shortcomings
was definitely not including Durge.
I don't know why they didn't.
I don't know why they didn't either.
It's just like he would have been
such a sick bounty hunter to put in there.
Yeah.
They had so many bounty hunters in that show
and they never included him.
I could have asked Dave that.
He must have just had a bone to pick with Durge.

(51:48):
Yeah.
They could have done a crazy cool story arc
where he would have been like
this boss level bounty hunter
when the Separatists put like...
Like Cad Bane was a pretty ruthless guy.
He was able to hold his own
against Quinlan Vos and Obi-Wan, right?
So like...
And he mentions in that episode
that the Separatists have got
a million credits ahead bounty hunt...

(52:10):
bounty on any Jedi that's killed, right?
Yeah.
As long as you can bring proof,
you get a million credits.
So I feel like Durge is one of those guys.
Yeah.
He could have been in there.
He could have been in there.
They could have kicked off the arc
with him like hunting down a Jedi
and killing him, right?
Right.
And then it like gets going
and you know,
it could have been like a three or four episode
kind of like how they did
the crazy Pong Krell story arc on Umbara.

(52:34):
Never saw that arc coming in Clone Wars at all.
Like I don't think anyone expected them
to do something like that.
Like Durge could have been one of those story arcs
where we just had something super gritty
and like...
I feel like he fits well as like a bad guy though.
Yeah.
He would have been the bad guy.
Like he would have been the villain of the...
Kind of like maybe the Grievous Intrigue storyline

(52:54):
where you know,
like you get a lot of Grievous
and his you know,
dumb droids and stuff
and you know,
then there's like the younglings
and Ahsoka and stuff like that, right?
Like it could have been...
It could have been interesting.
It could have been interesting.
Like if they had him as a main character
at some point.
Even if it was just four episodes.
Would have been awesome.
I'm okay with him also just being for like...
Just like one season.
He was just like the villain.

(53:16):
Yeah.
I guess the main issue probably was
that they had Cad Bane
and they didn't need to
but they were pretty different characters.
Right.
Yeah.
They were...
And they're so different, right?
Like he...
I don't know.
Like maybe...
They could have done some really cool stories.
That's what I'm saying.
Like all I'm saying is like
I think it was a missed opportunity but...
Especially if it was jousting.
Speed or jousting.

(53:37):
It doesn't make any sense
but it was cool.
It was cool.
And you know,
to this day it remains
one of the coolest designs
is Sideshow Collectibles
recently did a statue of Obi-Wan
on the speeder with the...
With the full armor?
With the clone helmet
and the armor and stuff
and he has the big pole.
That's cool, yeah.
I think they did a statue for that.

(53:57):
Yeah.
Like a cloak over his head.
Yeah, he's got the cape.
Or a kimono or something.
Yeah.
It's not a kimono.
It's gonna be a poncho or something.
It was like a brown cape
with like the...
Like pinned to his chest.
Right.
Yeah, that's what it was.
Yeah, it's really like Roman.
Yeah, it was sick.
Anyway.
I think there was...
Oh, I was gonna say...
It technically doesn't fit
which is too bad
but I much prefer their take on Grievous

(54:19):
both being a just like
skillful sword fighter and a badass
who just like slaughters
a whole bunch of Jedi so easily.
Yeah.
But also it explains
how he gets the cough and the rasp.
Right.
Which was from Mace Windu.
Yeah, that was another thing
that just went over.
Instead they just gave to him
the very beginning
of the 3D Clone Wars

(54:39):
when in the original 2D
he didn't get it
until like the very end.
Yeah.
Right before.
Like literally right before
Revenge of the Sith starts.
I would have been really happy
if they like included that
as a piece of the story
but just even if they shifted it earlier.
Like it's just...
It's just a move
that Mace Windu pulls
against Grievous
at some point.
And Grievous would have been
more cool in the 3D series

(55:01):
if he was at his full capability.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
I don't know.
Yeah, missed opportunity.
It seems like you want to move on.
I'm gonna ask you one last one.
Starkiller.
Force Unleashed.
Ah, man.
You see,
in this day and age
with Inquisitors
I really struggle with Starkiller.
Well, yes,
but he would have been
specifically under Vader.

(55:22):
Whereas the Inquisitors
are more of a council
that worked for the Emperor.
I can see it maybe still being
a possibility to fit in.
But I think the depiction
of his level of power
would have to be way toned down.
Yeah, I feel like that comes up
every time this character is brought up.
And that's what made him awesome.
Right?

(55:42):
That's what made him super cool
was that he could pull a Star Destroyer
out of space
and fry someone with insane lightning
and just all these insane things.
I liked his bubble attack.
I thought that was cool.
Yeah, and I think the cherry on top
was the design of the character
looked amazing.
Shout out to Sam Witwer.

(56:04):
Who is literally exactly the character.
I mean, his costume.
You know, like his costume.
Which one?
He had a different costume
in every level.
There was some great skins.
So the default one was cool.
Like he's very raggedy.
Right.
Yeah, the Imperial looking one.
And then there was like
the Sith Starkiller version,

(56:25):
which his helmet is in Andor.
That's right.
Such a cool nod to the head.
Does that make him canon?
I don't know.
Everyone thinks he's awesome.
That's why they put it in there.
The designs are really cool.
Yeah, and then his Jedi robes.
I think they're called Jedi Adventure robes.
Jedi Unleashed like redeemed version.
Yeah, those robes were super cool.
Yeah, they're very Assassin's Creed.
I think came out around the time

(56:46):
of Assassin's Creed.
So right.
Maybe a little bit.
Yeah, like every design was like
out of the ball,
like just out of the park,
like just knock out of the park.
So yeah, I don't know.
I'm like indifferent to that one,
I guess, but I still struggle with it.
I think they would have to really
make adjustments to make it work.
Well, the helmet's there, man.
So it's got to be true.
It's in my head now.

(57:06):
Oh, geez.
OK, let's move on
to our one last thing here.
Which, you know,
as Cantina Banter goes,
we kind of like pulled this up last minute,
but you wanted to mention
shrinkflation has been a bit of an issue
with Star Wars Lego recently.
Yeah, I feel like
just the cost of production of stuff now

(57:27):
is they're having a hard time
putting out the same value.
They could have the same same dollar.
The stuff that used to be like 40 bucks
is like 80 bucks.
The stuff that used to be $100 is $200.
And so I think they're compensating
by making the sets smaller.
But they're tricking the buyers
by still having a high part count,
but they're way smaller pieces.

(57:48):
So the numbers look similar on the box,
but you're getting a much smaller product.
Right.
I think this has been a bit of an issue
for quite some time.
And it's been it's been slow,
slowly progressing, right?
It's gotten worse and worse.
But as they re-release the same
like vehicles and ships and stuff,

(58:08):
like a second, third time, whatever,
I feel like from the last time
to this time since like maybe last year,
maybe mid.
Yeah, since like the clone turbo,
not the turbo tank,
the clone, the other tanks,
the hover tank.
Oh, the like the Battlefront 2 tank.
Yeah, yeah.
I feel like that was like the first one
where we saw significantly reduced in size

(58:30):
from the previous versions.
Right.
And it's just everything they've done since then.
I shouldn't say everything,
but a lot of the stuff that they've done since then
have all been shrunk versions.
Right.
So I'm looking at so we were exchanging
some photos the other day
and I'm looking at a picture
of the old V-19 Torrent Clone Wars Starfighter,

(58:50):
which is one of the new ones just came out.
Yeah, it's like got the it's basically got it
when it's in the landed position,
all the wings kind of fold up
and the one in the middle,
which when it's flying,
it's facing downwards.
It completely does like a 180 over the cockpit.
And this is the only ship that's Republic
that the clones use that does not exist
in attack of the clones.

(59:10):
Oh, Revenge of the Sith.
Right.
It's like exclusively Clone Wars animated series
animated series thing in both 2D and 3D.
Oh, is it in the 2D?
It's in 2D as well.
Yeah.
I don't remember that.
Yeah, it's in I forget which volume,
but anyway.
So yeah, the new one.
Man, it's such a huge difference.
It's tiny, dude.
Like it's like it looks like an A-wing,

(59:32):
but somebody like stapled some extra.
Yeah, that's about right.
How I would describe it.
I mean, OK, I'm kind of digging the arm printing.
Yeah.
The compensating.
I will say they have been compensating
with like new minifigs that are pretty solid.
And that Obi-Wan with the clone armor is awesome.
Yeah, that's definitely the best one they've done.
For sure.

(59:53):
Yeah, because they normally don't include
the arm printing on.
I think that's the first clone pilot
that has the actual clone pilot helmet.
Oh, I think I've got one actually.
Is it the actual helmet though with no fin?
You know what?
No, you're right.
They've never done a custom mold for him before.
You're right.
I think I have a fan on mine.
Yeah.
They because they just did the same one.
They just put yellow on it.

(01:00:13):
Oh, man, that is cool.
OK, so the minifigures are pretty sick.
The ship sucks.
That's the problem, though.
If you go to the third one,
the third picture you have there,
which is from the show.
So I had heard online that even though the the ship is smaller,
this is more accurate to Canon for scale.
I mean, this is a minifigure would say otherwise, though.

(01:00:33):
I don't know, man.
Look at that.
If you picture that clone is a minifig.
Yeah.
And then go back.
I feel like that's roughly the same height as the minifigure.
But I feel like like the original one is a better scale, though.
Like this definitely is more to scale than this.
When I'm looking at that picture.
I don't know, because like the top of the clone's head
should go roughly to the top of the cockpit.

(01:00:54):
Well, like height wise, they're both kind of the same.
But well, actually, that was quite a bit taller.
This one has a stand that it's on.
It has landing gear.
Yeah.
The new one doesn't have landing gear, which is really lame.
I feel like it's the new one is more accurate,
except for the wings are too short.
Well, look at the height of the wings, though.
The wings go like way up like this.
Right.

(01:01:14):
And then this one is just like four minifigures tall.
Whereas like, I don't know.
I don't know about the scale.
I feel like it should be like maybe 15, 20 percent bigger.
Yeah, I can agree with that.
But but I think that's why this one to me just feels like really good.
And maybe maybe it is like a hair too big.
But at the same time, it's like it feels more satisfying.
Satisfying.

(01:01:34):
Like, yeah.
Well, we can definitely agree on is the turbo tank.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The turbo tank is awful, man.
Like technically, even the original one they made in like 2006.
That one was too small for representation in front of the movie because of the movie.
I think it's huge.
Yep.
It's like a building.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The the original one was we were just looking at pictures the other day of this.

(01:02:00):
And the new one is like dwarfed by like 35 percent of the size.
You know, it's crazy.
I don't know how they honestly justified that.
Yeah.
It's a little it's a little strange.
Oh, here's another picture of like the V-19 time.
There's like sitting in there.
It's funny how they call it that instead of like a letter than a wing action figure version.
Yeah.

(01:02:20):
I don't know.
It's cool design.
I like that ship a lot.
They've only made it once other than this year.
I think the new Ark 170 is also quite a bit smaller.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
I've seen it as well.
It's sucks.
So something that's been irking me for a while.
But if you do, you buy some of the sets that aren't real.

(01:02:40):
So like right now I'm building the Star Destroyer.
The one that comes with what's his name?
Cal.
Cal.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And when I bought it, I mostly bought it for the Cal minifig.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But as I've been building it, I've actually been pretty impressed.
They did a really good job with it.
Like proportionally, even though it's only about maybe just over a foot.

(01:03:02):
Maybe like what?
The Star Destroyer?
Yeah.
It's like probably about this long.
No way.
It's about 18 inches.
Yeah.
I'll bring it over.
I'll bring it over to some point.
How much was that thing?
I got it on sale for like 180 Canadian.
Oh, okay.
That's not too bad.
I mean, for like a thousand pieces, right?
Yeah.
I think it's like 1500.
Yeah.
That's all right.
I guess.
Yeah.
As I'm telling you, it's got lots of parts.

(01:03:22):
This is a thing they're doing.
There's lots of parts.
So it looks like it.
Like it was the same as before, but the parts are smaller.
Which you do get more detail.
Yeah.
But it's also, you know, sneaky.
I can never bring myself to get one of those ships because the scale is so off.
It is.
It is.
But the proportions that, I mean, I'm not quite done, but from what I can tell, look

(01:03:44):
like spot on to the portion from the models, which I'm very impressed with.
They were able to do that.
Interesting.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm going to get in the light quick.
Oh, yeah.
Sure.
It's getting a little dark in here.
Here.
Look at this.
Oh, did you bring that over?
I did.
For you to check it out.
Oh, man.
That's awesome.
Commander Cody.
Phase two.
Commander Cody.
Phase two.
From which set is this from?
That is from the AT-TE, but I just bought the minifig from BrickLink because I already

(01:04:09):
have an AT-TE.
Oh.
But they've never done Cody phase two, and I've always thought he looked super badass.
Oh, that's awesome.
So I had to snag that.
Yeah.
No kidding.
I think it's the only orange visor they've ever made.
Yeah.
I don't think they make them in any other color usually except for gray.
Just a gray one.
Yeah.
That's cool, though.
Yeah.
Because we got Rex now from the $16 set.

(01:04:30):
I'm like, I better get Cody to go with him.
Dang.
Yeah.
That's nice.
I'm going to come to think of it.
They might make them in blue because I think they did a 501st battle pack a while ago or
not that long ago.
And I think maybe.
Maybe the visors are blue in that.
I could be mistaken.
Okay.
Maybe they're changing them up.
Yeah.
I'm not too sure.
But that's a cool figure.
Okay.
But what exactly should they do if this shrinkflation thing is an issue?

(01:04:54):
Like if it's more expensive now to produce a set with less pieces or less size, do they
just increase the price tag on everything?
Like everything else out there?
Well, I think they were doing that until they kind of reached a point where they just couldn't
justify it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Manufacturing is that's what it is.
It's hard to believe that.
There's a lot of stuff with that issue now.

(01:05:14):
So like, like a candy bar right now, man, you get it from a grocery shop.
It's like three bucks.
It's insane.
Like, yeah, it was like 90 cents and I was grown up, man.
It's like, it's hard to believe that that a Lego set needs to cost that much, though,
is my is my thinking.
Like, yeah, I mean, it's just plastic, but I think the quality of their like the quality

(01:05:37):
control is like super, super tight.
And super strong.
And they and they hire real engineers to like design these sets.
Yeah, they do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They get turned into Lego masters.
That's right.
Let's trust the system.
Yeah.
I think it's the production cost, though.
So I think a lot of it is.

(01:05:59):
But I don't know.
I don't know.
It's just at times it's hard to believe because like they're they make so much money.
Like they're they're they're listed in like one of the most successful.
Toy brands of all time.
And they have just a monopoly over that that type of toy.
Right.
Like a brick building toy.
Almost went bankrupt in like.

(01:06:20):
Yeah.
The 90s.
Yeah, exactly.
Which is pretty crazy.
They came back from that.
Yeah.
But I mean, it could be as simple as the recent CEO is just getting every dollar out he can.
Yeah.
Are they a public company?
I don't think so.
I actually don't know.
OK, because if they are, that also explain it.
Because, you know, every quarter you got to be ahead of the last year.

(01:06:43):
Yeah.
Start running into stock problems.
Right.
Or just greed.
The whole thing, man.
The whole thing runs on greed.
It's kind of nuts.
You know, like.
I just want my little plastic guys and some ships.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
Right.
Like it just.
Man.
Yeah.
It's one of those.
It's one of those toys that like once you buy, it's like you never get rid of the bricks.

(01:07:03):
You know, even if you dismantle the set, you put them in a box.
You keep them for like the next generation or you pass them down to somebody else.
Or whatever.
Yeah.
And if you ever get an opportunity to get more, you snag it up.
Yeah.
I was at Valu Village the other day.
And I've never seen like go there because it gets scooped up so fast if it ever shows up.
But they had a couple just like random bags of stuff for like six bucks.

(01:07:25):
I got an Ahsoka in there.
What?
Yeah.
And I got a not Commander Fox, but, you know, like the Red Troopers.
And where was this?
This is Valley Village just down the hill from here.
Just like some random.
Yeah.
And they got.
Get this.
So I.
Do you know, like they made like the official Lego like chess set?
Yeah.
It was like you buy it retail for like a hundred bucks.
And now you can buy it secondhand for like three hundred.

(01:07:47):
Dang.
I got the whole thing for fifteen dollars.
Oh, my gosh.
I know.
It was very happy.
It was a good day.
That was a very good day.
The only downside is you always get a bunch of mega blocks in there.
Oh, yeah.
Throw them out.
Mega blocks.
Right.
It's like.
Come on.

(01:08:07):
It's like the bane of.
Of.
Of random Lego Lego boxes existence.
Right.
Oh, man.
All right.
I'm fumbling words now.
We should wrap things up.
OK.
What do we have to look forward to next week?
We're talking with Francis.
We're talking with Francis.
Yeah.
What are we talking about?
Francis about.

(01:08:28):
We're going to be chatting about the potentiality of what's going on post Rise of Skywalker.
Yeah.
And the hints of what we have in canon.
And what that might lead to.
Nice.
Yeah.
The new Jedi order.
And that'll be a back to our regular programming.

(01:08:49):
So hopefully you all enjoyed these cantina banters that we've been doing.
And we're going to do a lot more because, you know, got to keep things keep things fresh.
Got to keep things interesting.
Keep it chill.
Keep it chill.
Casual and unplanned.
Fly casual.
Exactly.
How come that line's not in the intro?
It's perfect.
I should put it in.

(01:09:10):
Yeah.
You know what?
Yeah.
I'll put on the soundboard.
All right.
All right, sir.
We'll see in the next one.
See you out there.
Keep flying.
All right.
Thank you so much to our audience for tuning in.
Go and check out our website.
Star Wars podcast dot C.A.
Along with all the links in the description box below.

(01:09:32):
You can find us on YouTube and X with the handle at.
S.W.
Escape podcast.
You can find us on blue sky with the handle.
Star Wars podcast dot C.A.
You can find us on Gmail and send us your questions with S.W.
Escape podcast at Gmail dot com.

(01:09:54):
So shoot us your questions.
We're going to hit them in the next cantina banter.
We'd love to get in touch once again.
May the force be with you and we'll see you in the next one.
I got stressed.
No more.

All Episodes

Cantina Banter #2 | Rian Johnson Talks Return To Star Wars? | Is Star Wars Loosing Hype? | LEGO Shrinkflation

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Cantina Banter #2 | Rian Johnson Talks Return To Star Wars? | Is Star Wars Loosing Hype? | LEGO Shrinkflation