Dawn of the Jedi (Explained) | The Earliest Star Wars Legend - Star Wars Escape Pod

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Time to abandon ship.

(00:05):
Oh no!
Here we go!
Can I persuade you to join us for a drink?
It's a tradition.
Here, here.
Jar Jar, homie, my main man, quickly.
Before the separatists attack, get into the escape pod.

(00:28):
Hey, this is escape.
Then where's the pod?
This is where the pod is!
Welcome back to Star Wars Escape Pod, and we have a very interesting chat this week
about Dawn of the Jedi, which is an era in which is getting a movie, allegedly, and officially announced,

(00:55):
but you never know what'll happen to these things.
James Mangold is the director, and we are chatting about the potential possibilities
that could come out of this movie based on what we know from the source material in the
expanded universe long before the Disney acquisition took over in a comic called Dawn of the Jedi.
So we have Darian joining us this week, as well as Kirk, and of course your co-host Blake.

(01:23):
Let's get into it.
Another happy landing.

(01:47):
Alright, hello there.
Ahoy hoy.
Good to see you.
You as well, sir.
Chopper and the Falcon, Wookiee at my side.
Oh, that's right.
I guess that makes you my Wookiee.
Alright, and welcome back, Darian.
How are you doing, man?
I am well, how are you?
Oh, good thanks, yeah.

(02:09):
We're getting a bit of a later start this evening after some tech issues, haven't we?
Yeah, my computer's old and busted.
Better late than never.
Nothing like a driver update to destroy your computer.
Oh yeah, nothing like a good old hardware glitch, software glitch.

(02:32):
We also have Kirk joining us, although he is not with us right now.
So we will bring him in later, or soon.
Whenever he comes back.
Whenever he comes back, yeah.
But yeah, tonight we are having a bit of a chat about a movie down the road called, well,
it could be called Dawn of the Jedi.
But the actual era that this movie takes place in is also called Dawn of the Jedi.

(02:56):
And this has been confirmed through the official Star Wars timeline,
which was revealed at the last celebration that took place.
Not this year's 2025 Japan one, but the one before that.
In England.
Yeah, I think it was in England.
Yeah, I think it was, yeah, the London one.
I think so.
So yeah, we're talking a little bit about this particular era,

(03:19):
the movie which is being helmed by James Mangold.
And I say allegedly, and I say take it with a grain of salt,
because we went as far as like, do you guys remember Rogue Squadron?
The game?
No, the movie.
Yeah, I remember the Disney plus series.
No, it was a movie by Patty Jenkins.
You recall what I'm talking about, right Darian?

(03:40):
Yeah, she did the thing where she was rollerblading out by the jets.
This coming, we're doing it, men.
And definitely postponed.
And I gotta say, this is the movie I'm most looking forward to being
definitely postponed.
Interesting.
The Rogue Squadron one.
No, the...
Dawn of the Jedi.
The start of the Jedi, the Dawn of the Jedi.
I really wanted to see the Rogue Squadron one.

(04:01):
I did too.
I was very disappointed that one got postponed.
Yeah, Bryce was pretty bummed about that too.
I think an X-Wing specific movie would be awesome.
Could be really cool.
Like a Top Gun style?
Yeah.
That'd be so cool.
So, Dawn of the Jedi, I think we've all got some initial impressions now
because at least the three of us here, we've all got our own progress so far

(04:25):
with how far we got into it or how far we could get into it.
But we've all gone into the Tales of the Jedi Volume 1 Omnibus.
Now, I'm just going to explain a little bit about what this is for those
who are listening that don't know.
For the last couple years now, Marvel has been republishing a lot of the old

(04:46):
expanded universe comics, the old Legends continuity,
which a lot of those comic books are published by Dark Horse.
So, Marvel has been taking a lot of those and binding them into these kind of
semi-mini omnibuses called Epic Collections.
So, they're not full omnibuses.
They're more or less like a chapter of an omnibus, if you will.

(05:07):
So, about two to three or four of these Epic Collections would make an omnibus,
essentially.
So, in total, Tales of the Jedi Volume 1 of the Epic Collections series
contains the entirety of the Dawn of the Jedi comic book series
published by Dark Horse.
So, those comics are called, and they did a couple mini-series,

(05:32):
Dawn of the Jedi Force Storm, Issues 1 through 5,
Dawn of the Jedi Prisoner of Bogan, Issues 1 through 5,
Dawn of the Jedi Force War, Issues 1 through 5,
and finally, Dawn of the Jedi Issue 0, which is, I guess, a one-shot.
And the story takes place more than 25,000 years before the saga of the Skywalkers.

(05:53):
So, it's before lightsabers, before hyperspace travel,
before the Jedi's message spread in the galaxy,
when connections of the Force were, like, new,
and people colonizing planets was new,
and there was just, like, a lot less in the galaxy, I guess.
The galaxy was a much bigger place and also a much smaller place at the same time.

(06:15):
So, seeing as the James Mangold movie might actually take a lot from these old EU connections,
it could take absolutely nothing.
Is that where you placed your bet?
Well, that's kind of why we're chatting about it this evening,
because now we've all, at least, you know, you've read a few pages.
Darian, you said you made it to, like, page 300 out of 3...

(06:37):
What is it? 300 out of 377, was it?
That's pretty good.
I got to 327.
327. Okay, so you're almost done. That's awesome.
I think I made it to 15.
Yeah, you made it further than I did.
I made it to... I finished the first three series, I think, or the first two series.
So, I'm at, like, page 217 or something like that.

(06:58):
I'm, like, two-thirds of the way through, basically.
Here I felt bad, because I was like,
oh, I'm not going to be able to finish it in time,
and they're going to be like, oh, yet again, Darian doesn't know the whole thing.
No, man, you're a rock star here.
You went the extra mile.
I think, you know, based on what we all have read, though,
I think we all kind of have somewhat of an idea, you know.

(07:19):
And at the very back of these epic collections, there is, you know,
if you skip to the very, very last few pages,
there is, like, this really helpful guide of, like, you know,
some of the concept artwork that they came up with when designing this story.
And there's, like, write-ups on different things,
which are, like, explanatory kind of areas.

(07:40):
And maybe we can go through them, like a few of them,
just to kind of get a sense, you know,
to everyone listening out there who hasn't read this comic,
just to give you an idea of, like, you know, what things were like.
We can talk a little bit about, you know, the story,
and then maybe just come up with some theories about, like, you know,
could it be in the movie? Is it worth having in the movie?
Like a flying Rancor?

(08:02):
Yeah, because, you know, don't forget, like,
the canon has also introduced a lot of, like, variables to this discussion, right?
Like, you know, with The Last Jedi and such,
coming up with something called the First Jedi Temple on Ahch-To,
you know, and with the Prime Jedi.
Like, all that stuff is all new canon stuff.
It's not at all related to this.

(08:23):
So, you know, perhaps that might actually be another discussion to have tonight.
But, you know, what I thought I would start off by doing here
is just kind of giving a sense of, like, what this story is about
and kind of the origins of the galaxy
and just what the Jedi are like.
And then I would love to get, I guess, Darian,

(08:44):
you read a lot more than I did.
We'll get your, like, detailed take on, you know,
what you've read so far.
And, you know, we can kind of make connections to what we think.
So I'll start off by saying this.
This story is over 36,000 years before the Battle of Yavin.
That's what the Tho-Yor is,
which this comic takes place with a flashback to the origins of everything.

(09:08):
That's very confusing.
Yes. So it's called the Tho-Yor.
And over 36,000 years before the Battle of Yavin
and the destruction of the first Death Star,
eight ancient pyramids called the Tho-Yor traveled throughout the galaxy.
They look a little bit like mortis, like a pyramid shape,
except they're not mortis.
And they're almost like UFOs in a fictional alien story.

(09:30):
They gathered individuals who were strong in the force.
So they were just abducted people and brought them to this planet.
Kind of, but they invited them, not like necessarily abducted them.
They just landed on the planet and people would...
Entice them.
Yeah.
Seduce them even.
Yeah, yeah.
So basically it's the Republic symbol.
So everything's all right under that.
Yeah. I noticed that.
Yeah.

(09:51):
They all have like a big Republic logo on this pyramid thing itself.
So yeah, I thought that was kind of interesting.
So maybe I should get into it later,
but did they ever explain where those things came from?
No.
Okay, because that was my first question when I saw them.
Like this is the beginning of how everything came to be.
Where did these things even come from?
I think that's a question like mortis too.

(10:14):
We only know that mortis was created by the father to contain his children,
but it's like, where do beings like that come from?
Right.
Like they're basically immortal.
Like who made them?
Right.
I think with the Tho-Yor in this continuity,
I think it's safe to say like, okay,
we don't really know who made the Tho-Yor,
but maybe it was like the Wills or like whatever.
Maybe they've always existed.
Who knows?

(10:35):
Like it's a fictional story.
Also never referenced by the Jedi.
It's kind of inferred that the Kwa sent them out as a reaction to the Vatans.
Say that again?
There's a faction that are extinct in the main storyline,
and they find a holocron and they're called the Kwa,
I believe it was, K-W-A.
And it seems like they sent them out because they were like the great builders of the galaxy.

(11:02):
They had built basically-
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.
Were they the ones that made the Star Forge?
It's the Rakatan.
They're the ones that gave the tools to the Rakatan to make that Star Forge?
I think it's pronounced Rakatan.
Rakatan?
Oh, that's right, yeah.
Okay, yeah.
I could totally be wrong, so just don't take my word for that.
Yeah.

(11:23):
I guess that's another thing is like this was a,
we can get into it again, but like-
It's in KOTOR.
If you want to find a sound reference.
Yeah, it was very complex.
Lots of words I've never seen before.
And yeah.
Okay, so these Tho-Yor, they collected warriors, scientists, philosophers, priests, artisans from many worlds
and were brought to the planet Tython in the deep core.

(11:45):
Once on Tython, the ships orbited a ninth larger Tho-Yor
and after some time dispersed to various regions of the planet.
The four sensitive sentients from many different species who settled on Tython
became known collectively as Tythons.
So Tython is in the canon.
We've seen it now in live action as well.

(12:07):
We've seen it in the Mandalorian of all shows.
Is it still a crazy planet that has ridiculous weather systems?
No.
It's the planet where he takes Grogu to the seeing stone
and those droids abduct Grogu and it's a sunny day.
Boba comes back.
Doesn't necessarily mean it's not then in the long run.
No, I don't think-

(12:28):
It had a nice day.
At least nowhere in the news stories have I come across a reference
to how Tython used to be in the old expanded universe like here.
So we don't know if the Jedi eventually left
because regular people just kept dying there
because they couldn't survive without the Force.
Yeah.
Just the elements were so powerful there.

(12:50):
Yeah, do you want to talk about that for a minute?
That's about all I can say.
Okay.
Yeah, Darian, do you want to talk about Tython for a minute?
They did actually say in there that regardless of the weather,
the creatures and whatnot of Tython actually were driving people to leave
because they couldn't survive there even with the Jedi's help.
Yeah, it was like the balance of the Force plays a big part

(13:12):
in the way that the planet reacts weather-wise, it seems.
If something really bad is about to happen or is happening,
the planet also has an emotional reaction.
Volcanoes erupt or storms happen or whatever.
To me, I was like, wow, that's kind of weird.
But also, this is supposed to be very abstract,

(13:33):
this whole story, the origins of the universe essentially.
It is supposed to be very strange, I guess.
Yeah, and it sounds to show how much power that one character had
that it completely brings a continent out of balance,
that one person versus the million people that are probably on that continent.
Yeah.

(13:54):
So, the deep core.
In the center of the galaxy, in a region 7,000 light years across,
the galaxy's oldest stars orbit a massive black hole.
The gravitational pull of the black hole on the stars
and their close proximity to one another warps space and time within the core,
which causes hyperspace lanes to collapse,
making hyperspace travel difficult and dangerous.

(14:15):
In this era, Tython is a wild and primordial world rich with the force.
Breathtakingly beautiful, it can also be harsh and dangerous.
Naturally, occurring force storms tear the skies
and fantastic creatures roam the forest jungles.
So, yeah, this is where the very earliest of where we find in the story,

(14:36):
which flashes forward a couple thousand years
after we kind of see the beginnings of the Thoyor
dispersing different types of species across Tython and other worlds.
We see the very beginnings of the Jedi, which is spelt differently.
It's J-E and then apostrophe and then D-A-I-I.
Jedi.
The Jedi.

(14:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Any opinions on that?
I thought it was interesting that they mentioned the Bendu at one point
and they just completely glossed over it
and then they're like, yeah, we'll just re-spell Jedi,
even though they're really the Bendu at this point.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the Bendu, I think, were the individuals that got on one of the Thoyor, I think.

(15:25):
So I'm not super knowledgeable about the Bendu,
but they were always the people in the middle.
They are what the Jedi actually think that they are.
The Jedi think that they're balanced,
but they're really just like light side.
In this comic, the Jedi are more balanced,
but I still think they lean towards the light side.
So I found that really interesting,

(15:46):
but I thought it was a good way to express why the Jedi later on
think that they're the good guys.
Yeah.
What's also interesting about this organization of the Jedi at the time
is they also don't completely shy away from their emotions
or using the dark side of the Force.
They actually have a different code.

(16:09):
Yeah.
From the Jedi we know.
They do.
Yeah.
So this is the...
Republic era.
Yeah.
This is the ancient Jedi code.
It's like half Sith and half Jedi.
Yeah.
So there is no ignorance.
There is knowledge.
There is no fear.
There is power.
I am the heart of the Force.
I am the revealing fire of light.
I am the mystery of darkness.

(16:31):
In balance with chaos and harmony,
immortal in the Force.
So yeah.
It's a bit like kind of half and half in a way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I really like that.
I thought that was interesting because that is actually balance.
It's not denying one or the other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So...
Which we also got in canon from the new version of the Bendy, right?
In Rebels?
Yes.
That is very true actually.

(16:52):
Yeah.
And he also demonstrated some...
Light and dark, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because he turned into a Force storm himself.
It's true.
He started like blasting lightning down on, you know, from the heavens kind of thing,
right?
So yeah.
Let me see here.
Here is one thing about the Jedi.
All Jedi are Tithons, but not all descendants of the Tithons are Jedi.

(17:15):
Because at the time, you know, reproduction is also like a thing.
Yeah.
Right.
Some of them are born without Force.
Like there is squibs essentially.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So the Jedi, at this time, with the spelling, is an amalgamation of two ancient Dai-Bendu
words.
Ja, meaning mystic, and Dai, meaning center.
So the word comes from two ancient words that say mystic center, signifying that the Jedi

(17:39):
concentrate their study on balance within the mystical energy they call the Force.
There are five levels of attainment for the Jedi, Padawan, Journeyer, Ranger, Master,
and Temple Master.
Those are the different ranks.
So that obviously changes a lot.
In the Republic era, not much, but enough that Journeyer and Ranger are kind of amalgamized

(18:01):
as knight, I guess, in the new way of things.
And at the beginning, you know, we have Padawan, that's still the same, Master, and then Temple
Master.
They don't really use that term, but I guess Grand Master could be considered, perhaps.
Probably like the equivalent of being a master that's on the council.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Darian, how did you find the setup for just like the Jedi Order and how they have various

(18:28):
different temples for different things?
It seemed like they had a temple for learning combat.
They had a temple of knowledge, which is like the library.
They had a temple of the arts, which was for calligraphy, dancing, drawing, sculpture,
cooking, music, theater, all that kind of stuff.
They had a temple of science, which was also used as some kind of like a forge.

(18:51):
That's where they like made various things.
They had a temple of healing.
Like what do you think about all that?
I thought it kind of made sense as a society, especially after post-war.
It didn't really tell you if that was something that was always around or something that they
had done in response to the war, but I had no problem with it.
It was kind of interesting.

(19:11):
It showed that the Jedi were more active in different pursuits than the Jedi were used
to.
So I thought that was kind of interesting.
Yeah.
Something that stuck out to me was a species that, among other species that present itself
in these stories, was the species of the Sith, which, you know.

(19:32):
Yeah, I saw them.
I was very surprised by that.
Yeah.
And, you know, in some, I guess it's not talked about often, but I guess for those who didn't
know, you know, the Sith, really, they get their name from a people rather than like
just a word to signify something, right?
So the Sith were a species of people.

(19:52):
And by the time of the movies that you're familiar with, they just no longer exist.
They've gone extinct.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I really liked that.
I was surprised by it, too.
Something I wanted to point out before we even got started tonight was this is the first
comic I've ever read from Star Wars that the race of the people was never held against
them.

(20:13):
Like, Wrath, at no point had anybody been like, well, you're more prone to anger because
you're a Sith or the Zabraks or whatever, whereas everywhere else, like, oh, you're
a Zabrak.
You get angry easy.
You see that all the time in other media.
Yeah.
Always the bad guys.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So even when they're the good guys.
Right.

(20:34):
There's like prejudice, right?
Like there's like a prejudice against them being affiliated, I guess, with a certain
alignment within the force.
And yeah, we're reading it in a time of which everyone is kind of like all these different
peoples that have been brought to this one place called Tython and they are all Titans.
So like it's it's the one moment in history which they're all kind of unified as one people.

(20:57):
Even though it's multi-race, it's like it's kind of like a one cultured place that's building
and growing.
And so this is because of the timeline.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's no like history for people to have biases.
Right.
And this is a to give you a sense of time.
This is a millennia before the Sith homeworld of Korriban is conquered by dark lords who
eventually take the name Sith for their religion.

(21:20):
So that's just to give you a sense of like where this takes place.
You know, this is like a long time before things go south for the Sith.
Yeah.
Okay.
So here's I guess that covers the Jedi, the temples, Tython, the main stuff.
Okay.
So let's talk a little bit about the villains in this story.
Yeah.

(21:41):
Darian, you want to talk a little bit about the, what'd you call the Rakatans?
I think it's Rakatan.
I've heard other people refer to it that way.
I think in Force Unleashed, they were talking about the Rakatan Infinite Empire.
The Rakatans.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So basically like they're the ultimate predatory race that relies solely on the dark side and
bends everyone to the dark side throughout their empire.

(22:04):
Well, that was interesting because it's like, what if Yoda's race was truly evil?
Yeah.
They're amphibian like in physical physique, I guess.
Biped looking creatures with-
Like toad eyes.
Yeah.
Eyes that stick out on either side.
Yeah.
Or like snails, I guess.
Yeah.
And they're-

(22:25):
Hammerhead.
Yeah.
Hammerhead.
Yeah.
I was going to say like Gary.
And made them really skinny and then took their eyes and stretched them out to the sides
of their head, you know?
So they were like-
Okay.
Yeah.
It almost-
And gave them ridiculously sharp teeth.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And gave them like fang teeth.
Yeah.

(22:45):
So they're a bit scary looking and they're known for three things.
One being their empire, which they call the Infinite Empire.
The second thing is they have built a galaxy marvel called the Star Forge, which anyone
who's played KOTOR will be familiar with what the Star Forge is and what it can do.

(23:05):
This Infinite Empire of people created that thing, that structure.
The other thing that they've created is something called a Force Saber, which is essentially
a proto-lightsaber weapon.
It uses laboratory grown crystals, creates a glowing energy blade, and the principles

(23:27):
are essentially the same later used in the lightsabers by the Jedi.
Although the difference is the activation and channeling of the energy in the weapon
itself is completely dark side.
So it is turned on and I guess stays on with channeling the dark side into this weapon
that has no on switch.

(23:48):
So that's like-
Didn't Zesh and Locke find their crystals on that planet?
Isn't that why they went there?
They didn't create them there.
They found them and then used Sith alchemy to hone them into what they were.
Yes, they went to a planet.
They didn't like find them in the middle of nowhere though.
They like talked to a guy who had them.

(24:09):
So I think because this is I'm just reading off of like the very end resource pages in
the back of the comic book here.
So I imagine maybe those were crystals that were lab grown or something that maybe he
had like a bit of a collection growing, I guess, of these gems.
Well, he said that they were rare, so they would be missed.
So that says to me that they were found and like catalogued.

(24:33):
Yeah, possibly.
That's certainly possible.
I do wonder why it says laboratory grown crystals here.
I guess maybe the majority of them have lab grown crystals, but that is something I guess
the old EU is known for is like lab grown crystals.
For the Sith.
For the Sith.
Specifically.
Yeah, specifically the red ones.

(24:53):
Yeah.
All right.
And then-
It is funny though that this is a point where the Jedi were just wielding regular swords
and then they're fighting these aliens with lightsabers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, so that's something else to note is the Jedi at this time are still using like
metal swords as weapons.
And the, what is it?
What was it?

(25:14):
Rakatan?
Yeah.
Rakatan?
Rakatan.
I keep messing it up.
The Rakatans, they've invented this weapon and they're using it to essentially conquer
worlds.
And I guess the big role that they have in this story at large is that they are moving
from world to world, taking slaves, making slaves out of force adepts, like essentially

(25:39):
people who are force sensitive, and they're pitting them against one another, having them
fight to the death.
And then they are basically taking them on as what they call a force hound, which is
a very dirty term for what becomes later a Sith apprentice.
So they're calling them force hounds because they're essentially like, yeah, it's a way
of saying like, you know, like a dog, right?
Like they're like force using dogs.

(26:01):
Slaves.
Slaves.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like weapons, right?
That they use against for their own nefarious purposes.
Not everybody's a hound.
It seems to me like the hounds were specifically for searching out worlds, like sniffing them
out.
Yeah.
They were used as, well, they could be used as scouts because we do see another hound

(26:23):
who isn't a scout, rather she's like sent off to collect one of the hounds that has
gone missing.
But, but yeah, like I guess they're just sent on errands, right?
Like they're sent on doing like stuff.
Well, they, they alluded to that was her job, but she wasn't the best at it.
Whereas Zesh was.
Yeah.
That's very early on.

(26:43):
Yeah.
I read that part.
Yeah.
And Sesh, like you mentioned, Darian is sort of the main character of this whole story.
He is a force hound who is, I guess, sent to Tython and I'm blanking on exactly what
happens.
Does he betray his masters, kills everybody and then crashes on Tython?

(27:05):
Is that what happens?
So the further you get into the story, it keeps going back to that moment and you find
out more and more.
Do you want me to spoil it?
Yeah.
Go for it.
Yeah.
Hit the alarm.
Okay.
So.
All right.
Lister's even born.
Spoiler territory.
So it turns out that Zesh was always the master predator's spy, even, even when what's her

(27:32):
name Silk?
Oh yes.
The other hound?
Is it Trill or something?
That's right.
Yeah.
Well, that's it.
Yeah.
Even when Trill and him fight and they're supposed to be like brother and sister, it
seems like even at that point, he might be the spy for the predator above the one who's
actually serving.
So when Trill can conceive of this world that most of this is set up in later and she can't

(28:00):
figure out where in the galaxy it is, she gets her basically brother to go back and
find it.
And he does right away.
So they do this like brainwashing thing on him where he betrays the predator.
It's hard not to say predator.
I know.
I did that too.
The predator above him, he betrays him, blows up his ship, steals his escape pod and lands

(28:23):
on the planet.
And like weaves his way into the Jedi as over time and like becomes their kind of hero.
But it's all the secret plan that even he doesn't know about where he eventually betrays
them.
Gotcha.
Okay.
Well, there you have it.
Very confusing storyline to follow there.
So does that lead into the creation of what becomes the Sith?

(28:44):
Is that the idea?
This schism?
I don't know.
It didn't get that far, but there's a couple like there's back and forth that I just kind
of lost over and like combined.
Like his sister's pretty heavily involved.
They're not like brother or sister biologically, but they're called like brood siblings or
something.
Yeah.

(29:05):
Like inquisitors?
Like close, close friends, both the same age, raised kind of in the same, you know.
They have like a bond of some sort, but it's never really explained.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They don't really talk about it.
Yeah.
They bring it up like three times and then it's just kind of like very vague.
It's a MacGuffin sort of idea.
It helps you get the story, but I don't think it was actually necessary.

(29:27):
Fair enough.
Yeah.
So, and there's a lot more to all of this story.
I mean, like, I mean, I just saw a page where someone talks about they know who created
the Thor, Thor, Yor and why, but yeah, it's, I guess like from what we're able to take
away from all of this is really just a general idea for like, if they took stuff from this

(29:51):
comic book and put it into the movie, like what, you know, what could that look like?
Like what, what do you think Darian, like is usable from this comic or do you think
none of it is usable?
Do you think like, it's completely just like, you know, bad, I don't know, like what's your
take on all of this?
I guess.
I enjoyed the story.

(30:12):
It was, um, I'm surprised so much of it that I actually knew from other things I've read
because like this story, a lot of other stories have borrowed from and mentioned things within
it, not the characters or, or like the specific ideas from it.
It's a pretty dense story.
Actually.
I was really surprised by that.
So they could, I don't think that they're going to follow this story to be honest, because

(30:36):
the four sabers, for example, that it seems like the backpack sabers that come after these.
It seemed like a massive backstep in technology.
There also seemed to be a few anachronisms I don't like that it knowing the larger picture
of this timeline, I've never read anything this far back in the timeline.
So it was kind of interesting, but yeah, it was, there's, it's, it's one of those, like

(31:00):
we'd almost have to go page by page with this to go through how many ideas we'll put in
place.
There's a lot.
Yeah.
I was talking to Josh before we started recording in the best way I could describe it.
We're talking, we're trying to explain it to Kirk is to me, it felt like I was reading
the similarian.
It was like, it's just this really, really dense, like kind of convoluted backstory.

(31:21):
A lot of words you can't pronounce very easily on a names of stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There was a lot of that of like, I'm not even going to read that word.
Cause I don't know what it would sound like.
Yeah, exactly.
So yeah.
Blake, what do you, what do you, what's your, I guess your initial thoughts on what you
were able to read?
Well, well my main issue is it was so dense and everything.

(31:43):
It was just hard to, hard to get into.
Yeah.
It was also hard to just follow because of that.
I got far enough that I pretty much just passed the part we're talking about here with, with
Trill and the other guy.
Yeah.
Sesh.
Sesh.
Uh, at which point, uh, cause I mainly read that really dense part at the beginning.
It was like, uh, I don't think I'm going to make it cause there's a lot to go and that

(32:04):
just, that section just like burned me out.
Yeah.
But as far as, uh, stuff for the movie, it's a good question because there's a lot of this
stuff cause you can also include things around like KOTOR and the TOR online game, right?
Because a lot of what's in this comic, uh, I, I believe the game came first.
So it would have been pulled from the game into this comic.
So I didn't realize until we started this that the Rakatan empire was like the first

(32:29):
like really big empire.
Yeah.
So they could pull stuff like that cause that's stuff that's pretty established in EU canon.
But I guess they didn't, cause what was the deal around TOR?
I believe it was the, it was considered legends, but they still were going to produce new stuff
for it.
That was the idea.
Um, the older public MMORPG.
Yeah.
Uh, that one.

(32:49):
Yeah.
It's, it's the main, uh, story that they have constructed is I guess aligned with the continuity
of the legends world, you know, like the old continuity is actually still the only ongoing
thing that, uh, that is perpetually not canon that is in existence.
That's still like putting out new content is still going now, uh, other than Star Wars

(33:13):
visions, the anime, but, uh, yeah, it's still, still going.
That's crazy.
Yep.
So, um, yeah, I don't know if there's any big updates coming anytime soon, but you know,
it's, it's, yeah, the, the story is a sequel to the other, the other games I guess.
Um, but yeah, I, you know, I think, you know, if I guess the Star Wars galaxy being the
Star Wars galaxy, like this story is as like what Darian was saying, like the earliest

(33:36):
story that you could possibly read, um, within the, the, uh, the EU and within Star Wars
in general, like in the Canon so far, the, the earliest that you can read is the high
Republic technically.
Uh, so like, this is a story that takes place way before everything.
And it's still not like the origins of the universe or anything like that, but it's like
kind of at a point in which it's not even to the origins of space travel.

(33:58):
No it's not.
So like still like a huge chunk of time before.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's kind of where the story kind of jumps in.
It does give you a flashback to how different peoples came to live on the same planet, but
then it flashes over all that time of which they figured out like how to travel between
worlds and invent technology like that was my question was, does this, did hyperspace

(34:21):
exist in this series?
I didn't get far enough to find out.
Uh, well it, like what I was, uh, I think when I read in the, from the back of the comic
book there, like it does, it's just people don't do it because it's very, very, very
dangerous.
So people just do like long, slow travel basically.
I guess so.
Which is kind of unbelievable.
Like crossing the ocean on a sailboat.

(34:42):
When they're on the dark moon and they find out that that guy had the jet fighter, like
he's got a couple of days head start on us.
It seems like they're able to travel from planet to planet in a matter of days.
Right.
Cause it's pretty much simultaneously they're finding their crystals.
Yeah.
It's like that episode of the Mandalorian where he travels with sub light only between

(35:02):
that one planet and the next one.
And uh, it takes a while, like he actually goes for a full on sleep and everything like
that.
Right.
So yeah, it was, it is kind of interesting.
And I think that's why the story is contained to a certain select amount of planets that
are within and around Tython, uh, in the deep core rather than like going super far out.
Uh, while we're on the topic though, uh, we did at some point in the story, get a little

(35:26):
glimpse at Tatooine in its prime, like while it's like an ocean planet and stuff like that.
Uh, cause it's got like, you know, lots of plants and oceans and, and all that stuff.
And this is like, obviously alluded to in the book of Boba and Mando and just canon
in general.
I feel like a lot of people are familiar with the idea that's like, yeah, this desert world
like used to be a livable place.
Hospitable.

(35:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was, it seems like they're leading up to the Rakatan or the ones that ruined that.
Right.
Yeah.
So I feel like there are very like cool things about this story.
Um, I think in my own opinion though, it doesn't really fit all that well with where they would
probably take this story.
It does have a lot of that eighties, nineties more fantasy than sci-fi and like that old

(36:11):
school fantasy that's just really dense.
Um, like, like for example, if you want to pull another thing, star Wars, something similar
to that would be what we got with the Ewok adventures movies.
Right.
Yeah.
It feels like it fits more in like a, like a willow than it does in star Wars.
So the crazy thing is the start date for this comic book series was in 2012.
So it's actually not like crazy old, but it's stylized to be a certain way.

(36:36):
Like it's stylized to be very like epic, retro fantasy.
Yeah.
Like epic and grand.
And, and it's like, yeah, I dunno, I guess the inspiration for perhaps the feeling of
that story was rooted in, in that maybe those older eighties and nineties, like kind of
fantasy sci-fi narratives.
Like, like I don't, I don't really know if maybe that's what they were going for or what,

(36:56):
but um, but yeah, it's like some of it does feel like that.
Um, I don't really feel like this story like fits in very well with the Canon.
Um, like in the Canon we have actually, no, it's a really good example.
What's the name of it?
The dark crystal.
Like it's very like that depth of like fantasy writing, like rich allure.
Yeah.
We're just like crazy names for things.

(37:17):
Yeah.
Like you have to, you'd have to take a course at a community college to really understand
what's going on.
Cause it's just, it's just so dense.
Right.
Right.
I didn't, I didn't find it that bad, but it's definitely like, I kind of wish I had taken
breaks every chapter or so because I feel like a lot of it just kind of leeched out
of my brain trying to shove more in.

(37:38):
That's fair.
Yeah.
I agree.
I agree.
It's like, I think for me it's like, it's harder to remember names that are like hyphenated
words that I've never seen in my life.
And it's just like, Oh, like, like who's that?
What's that guy's name again?
Like who's she, you know, like it's just, you just try signing your own names.
So like Gerald and Katrina, it is a lot, it's a lot to take in.

(38:00):
Both Trill and Sesh being force hounds, like their, their names are, come from the letter
that's called that, like, like Sesh is the, the, the Arabic, Arabesh, yeah, Arabesh, yeah.
So like Sesh is the name for that, the letter on his, on his face that, that he has in purple
face paint.
So yeah, it's like, it's a bit like that where all of these force hounds just are given a

(38:25):
letter, right.
But in Arabesh, like that's how they do it.
Like every, every letter has like a word.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the prime Jedi back to stuff like that doesn't work.
When do we get dark Jedi and then eventually that breaking off into the Sith?
Oh yeah.
Well that's in volume two.
That's in Tales of the Jedi volume two.

(38:45):
And that flashes forward like many thousands of years later to the Ulluk Kual, Ulluk Kual
Drama story and the Exar Kun storyline.
Like it kind of goes into that and that's where it really breaks off where you get this
like civil war within the Jedi and then you get the Sith branching from, from that event.

(39:09):
But this story, because it's so far back, it's like, here's this crazy story of the
dawn of the Jedi and like the balance of the force.
Like that's pretty much all it was.
And just the setup for things like the Star Forge and you know, some of the, I guess the
origins of like evil and good, you know, in the galaxy and how species kind of disperse
across other planets.

(39:29):
Okay.
The more we talk about it, the more I really feel like for this to be what my, I should
say my personal thoughts on what I think would be needed for this to be done really well
is for it to be written by Dave Filoni because he's the only person I would trust to write
something that is like good, but abstract.

(39:50):
Yeah.
Like the Mortis trilogy, for example.
Because it's, it's something that I think wouldn't be easily done.
A lot of people would think they could do it, but because it's so abstract, it's really
hard to piece it together well into the lore and do it in a way that is so accepted by
the majority of fans.
I think that's a huge task.
But I got a question for you guys then, like, what would you want out of a movie called

(40:14):
Dawn of the Jedi?
I would enjoy a side plot of creating the first lightsaber that is like revealed in
the show somewhere.
Like it would be like a part of the plot of the movie that a lightsaber becomes a, okay.
Maybe the temple of science.
Maybe in the first five minutes, like the first lightsaber is created or something.
No, no.

(40:35):
It's got to be revealed for the final battle, tinkering on it for the whole movie or something.
Here's an idea.
What if it was like, kind of like a fellowship of the ring?
Like you get like a history of middle earth style flashback before everything, bringing
the first kyber crystal.
They're like, I don't know, like they show like pieces and bits of what we are familiar
with from this story, but they adapt it for the canon.

(40:57):
So like maybe the Tho Yor is a thing and maybe they like, you know, some Cate Blanchett
voiceover is like talking about, you know, the origins of how people were brought up
in these Tho Yors and dispersed into Tython.
And from there, the Jedi were like born and, you know, created to bring peace and stuff
like that.

(41:18):
And, and then it kind of goes into like the lightsaber creation thing.
And, you know, maybe it transitions like that into the movie and then, and then we just
kind of move on.
If we're going that route, to be honest, I feel like my gut feeling is, it's going to
be more related to the mortis gods.
Okay.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Like I, I don't know what to expect, but I can, I can, I can definitely tell you this.

(41:39):
Like if I was to have my ideal dawn of the Jedi movie, it would probably be like what
Darian was saying.
Like, I think a smart way to do it would be to feature that separation of the, of the
Sith.
Yeah.
I think so too.
Yeah.
Which I think is a little bit misleading.
Cause it sounds like it's the beginning of the order.
Cause it's like, where did the bending come from then?

(42:00):
That's the thing is like, it could be the movie title called dawn of the Jedi, but it's
also an era.
It's also an era of dawn of the Jedi.
So like, you know, well, the reason I said specifically dark Jedi is because I think
the sequel movie would be dawn of the Sith where you go forward a thousand years and
that should be its own story.
I think, because it is such, it's such a interesting offshoot of the Jedi, um, its

(42:24):
own thing entirely.
I don't think you can tell those two stories together.
That's fair.
If they went that far, I would love to see a game of throne style series with Sith and
Jedi and the Sith kind of at a point where it's kind of like, I guess like Tor or like
pre KOTOR maybe we'd have like a proper size Jedi and a proper size Sith in there vying

(42:44):
for power.
I think that'd be pretty entertaining.
That'd be interesting.
I think Game of Thrones style with the Sith would be really good because they're betraying
each other and be very political, that sort of thing.
Yeah.
But how do you care about a Sith when they're killing each other that quickly?
Right.
Yeah.
You have to have a few good ones.
It is hard.
Entertaining.
It is hard to.
Yeah.

(43:05):
Like, and that's, I guess when I, you know, when you think about the Star Wars movies
that you are familiar with, it is very hard to, um, relate to some of the villains, not
all of them, but like, it's, it's very hard to like relate to a guy like Palpatine.
People said that about Darth Maul when all he had was Phantom Menace as well.
Yeah.
And I think, I think you can relate to Darth Maul if you watch the animated shows.

(43:27):
Exactly.
But before that he had basically no screen time and like one line.
Yeah, exactly.
And it's like a villain for the sake of a villain is like, it is tough to get into that
headspace and understand like, Hey, why do you do what you do?
Right.
So yeah, maybe a dark Jedi would be a good starting place.
Like that would be a great solution for like, here's how the Sith kind of got going, you

(43:47):
know, like they came from this ideology.
And if you look at their code, like the Sith code, it doesn't seem all that bad.
It's just like they do terrible things, but like the, the philosophy doesn't sound like
it's a criminal thing to, to, to be part of.
But I think it's designed that way on purpose because it's like when you dance with the

(44:08):
devil, it's not the devil that changes, it's you.
So you start out from this place where, Oh, it's really not that bad.
They're just kind of misunderstood.
And the more you get into it, the more you know, that thing that you weren't willing
to do before.
Well, it doesn't seem so bad.
That's just a little bit for them where you went and eventually you've, you've climbed
the mountain.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

(44:28):
Yeah.
So yeah.
Lots of interesting things to think about there.
I don't think Kirk's popping it.
I don't think so either.
It's like talking about what?
Oh.
Oh, sorry guys.
I gotta go.
I don't know if you can tell, but I'm a Sith fan, so, oh yeah, I think you may have mentioned
it before.
Um, yeah.
So I guess, um, just as a summary then, are you looking forward to this movie if it happens

(44:55):
or are you a bit more concerned as to like how this could turn out?
I'm very concerned.
I really don't think this current, uh, management of Star Wars will let Mangle make a movie
that is worthy of this story and it's not a story we need either.
That's the thing.
It's not, I don't even know any Star Wars fan that was excited when they heard that

(45:17):
they're going to do this timeline.
Right?
No, it's, it's true.
Um, I, uh, I was surprised when the acolyte, well, actually I shouldn't say, uh, I shouldn't
say I was surprised.
I should say, um, I was hoping that the response for the acolyte would have been a lot better
than it turned out.
Um, but I was, I was not surprised after seeing the show that it did get the response it got.

(45:42):
I think they picked a weird time for that.
And then we've talked about higher public a number of times, but I still stand by the
opinion that the beginning when they're dealing with the blank on their name, but the, the
pirates.
Oh, um, yeah.
I forget.
I forget.
Call now.
I would look that up.
The name of the pirates?
Yeah.

(46:02):
Yeah.
The name of the pirates.
Yes.
Pirates.
As well as then they accidentally discover the man's been too long since I read these
books.
Oh, sorry.
You're talking about the books, not the show.
Then you mean the Nihil?
Yes.
Thank you.
The Nihil or the pirates.
And then they accidentally find the drink gear.
Yeah.
All right.
Okay.
I got it.
That era.
I think actually been really, if they had done the acolyte show in that era where they're

(46:23):
maybe fighting the pirates and then they accidentally find the drink gear and admittedly I'd prefer
if the drink gear were more like zombies, which I've mentioned many times, but if they
had done that, I think that would have been a really cool storyline.
It was like, so they're fighting these pirates and maybe it's like they have to stop them
at some planet or whatever.
And then they accidentally find the drink and did that.

(46:44):
I think that would have been very interesting because it would have been, I guess, kind
of like the plot of the first Halo game.
See, I think the, the idea for that show being here, let's make a show in this time space
of which the Sith start to make their power play.
Like, you know, they really start to make their return because it's only a hundred years
before Phantom Menace, which isn't that long if you think about it.

(47:05):
But like, you know, like when I, when I saw how this is relevant is like when I saw the
response to that show, it really discouraged me for future stories, which took place before
the Phantom Menace and James Mangold's movie was announced before the acolyte came out
with its reception.
So I think it, it is kind of sad to say, but like, you know, Rian Johnson also was

(47:29):
promised a trilogy of movies that, that still hasn't happened and that's supposedly still
happening apparently.
Then there's the Patty Jenkins movie that is still supposed to happen that never officially
got canceled, but it got shelved for now, I guess.
And can I put forward an idea of why I think that even on paper the acolyte didn't work?

(47:51):
Yeah.
Why is that?
Boa Fett in Empire Strikes Back.
Why does that character really appeal to you?
It looks cool.
Just, just in that movie, he's quiet, never takes off the helmet.
He's mysterious.
You know exactly what you need to know about him, that he is quite the force to be reckoned
with, even though he doesn't wield the force.

(48:11):
Yeah.
Now, when they go back to the prequels and they show you who his father is, Django Fett
and him as a kid and everything, did that really hurt your idea of who Boa Fett was?
We actually just had an episode about this.
We did.
Yeah.
And for me, it didn't really impact it at all.
I actually thought it was kind of cool that, that there was some backstory to him that

(48:34):
I was able to like.
There's an asterisk, I think, to that.
It depends on what era you were born because if you grew up with the prequels, I think
you appreciated it.
And if you're before that, then you probably impacted negatively.
Yeah.
I appreciated it.
And I grew up with the original series and went through the dark times of the nothing,
right?
Because Return of the Jedi came out just before I was born.

(48:56):
So I had, you know, 13 years of no Star Wars.
Why I liked seeing Django as a kid was it gives him this identity crisis of, I'm trying
to live in the shoes because I'm a literal clone of this man and I have to be him.
And no amount of money I'm ever going to get is going to be enough.
No amount of bounties I ever collect is going to be enough.

(49:18):
He's got this like insatiable need to be the best.
And that's what drives Django Fett, but he can't let anyone know that he has a weakness.
So he's so rigid and quiet because of that in Empire Strikes Back.
And that's kind of what it fed that character, in my opinion, at least.
No, that's a good point.
And I think you see a lot of that through the Clone Wars in the animated series as well.

(49:40):
He's trying to aspire to his dad's level.
He wouldn't even wear the hat.
Yeah, you see it a bit.
And I think that they pulled back from it the right amount because they gave you a little
bit more to let you know he's still around to leave you wanting more.
I think maybe they went just a hair too much, but not very too much.
And then when Book of Boba Fett came out and you get to see him be this like 80s sitcom

(50:03):
TV show, that kind of ruins the character, at least for me.
How do you guys feel?
I mean, we've talked about this too.
Yeah, we've talked about Book of Boba and like, I don't know.
I've tried to see, you know, there's a lot of things about the show that I do like, but
there's definitely a handful of things that I, you know, wish wasn't done or could have

(50:25):
been different.
And we had an episode talking about how they kind of had to, it feels like at least they
had to adjust his storyline because the EU Boba story was pretty close to what they did
for The Mandalorian.
Maybe not, you know, point for point, but close enough that they can't just make a second
show that's that similar.
So, okay.
But that you get what I'm getting at, that what you had in your mind, it wasn't, we hadn't

(50:50):
that show for sure.
Well, but it's, it's better to you because it's based on your biases that you don't know,
but you, you theorize about it.
That's that you've got this very capable person that you want to know more, but you're not
given everything.
Whereas the acolyte, it's like, okay, you know that the Sith are building and scheming

(51:12):
and everything at that time, but actually showing us that and showing us their failures
and everything, it kind of ruins it.
I think like it's, it's a time that should never have been touched.
Phantom Menace is, is the earliest at that time period you should have gone.
If you give us like, I don't know, a thousand years in between them, like a, some, a time

(51:32):
period where nobody's still alive, say like KOTOR or something, that's a time period you
should go in because the technology is similar enough that you don't have to re-explain the
universe to people, but you can do anything in that storyline and there's enough time
that anything can be fixed in between them.
That's a valid point.
I will say one thing that I think does break that mold a little bit, but it's close to

(51:54):
the Phantom Menace that maybe doesn't count is the Jonath Plagueis novel.
Yeah.
Which we both really like a lot.
And you know, I would say this about the acolyte as well.
The reason that I personally didn't quite get on board with the majority of the show
wasn't actually for the Khmer Sith storyline.
It was actually for the Jedi storyline that I didn't really like.

(52:16):
I didn't like the mystery stuff with Osha and all that.
Like that, that for me was actually the drag rather than Khmer.
I thought Khmer was actually a bit of a highlight actually in the show.
You know, I enjoyed the fight, enjoyed the, the duels, I guess, and thought they were,
they were pretty cool.
I just think there was a lot of wasted time that could have made it even better, you know,

(52:40):
for him as a character and for, I guess, the plot, the time that we spent in that show
definitely could have felt like it could have been utilized a lot better.
But I don't know.
Maybe that's just me.
But I can totally see what, like your point, like being like, I guess, expectations in
general are built up.
And then once you see it unfold in someone else's vision, once they've made the story,

(53:01):
they can be a bit disheartening, right?
Especially if you've been a fan for, you know, like 40 years now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wasn't sure what to expect about the accolade.
I think, I think we, like, I personally didn't have any, any thought as to how that show
would be until I saw the trailer and thought like, oh, like, okay, now I got some idea.
But like before I never really had any idea what they were doing because most of the higher

(53:24):
public stuff is so like broad, like it's just so different.
Like most of the stories in there, it's like, okay, you got man eating plants.
You got pirate Vikings, you know, there's like numerous things that they could have
done with a show that takes place in the time period.
But it was teased that they would introduce the Sith as an element in that, in that storyline.

(53:45):
And I don't know, I guess, I guess, I guess it didn't go the way they thought.
But I guess, yeah, I guess what you were getting at the beginning of this is it, which kind
of leads into this whole topic about, you know, pre-Phantom Menace stuff coming out
is it is an era that I personally really would like more media in, whether it's animated
or they're live action, but it is tricky to do.

(54:07):
I think earlier is better, the farther from Phantom Menace, which I think is everyone's
kind of agreeing with here, right?
Just gives you more room to do stuff and not have to tie up directly these kinds of extra
storylines.
Yeah.
Like I loved The Stranger, Manny Jacinto, Grimeer, whatever we want to call him.
That was a great character, but his existence in that time period, him trying to get his

(54:30):
own apprentice and everything already adds a bunch of complications to an already complicated
storyline of Plagueis and, um,
That I agree for sure.
Yeah.
And it's like, none of it needs to be there.
It just showed, it was like a push too much together too quickly.
And then it was just done like, there's so many great parts about it, but then there

(54:54):
was so many poorly done parts about it.
Mainly, I think the thing that really killed it was its marketing because it was marketed
as a mystery.
And it's like, I knew in the previews, I'm like, oh, that, that Asian dude, he's going
to be the one that's the Sith, like, he's the only person in this thing that could be
the Sith.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, no, I, I, I totally, I totally see your point though.

(55:15):
I agree.
I feel like it was a bit stuffed for, uh, for where a time in which I would have been
happy just to see a Plagueis story unfold, to be honest.
Um, but, uh, but yeah, like, you know, going back to Dawn of the Jedi, I feel like it is
a fairly safe, very broad time era of which they could put any story in there.
And as long as it's a good story, it just needs to be good.

(55:37):
Like it doesn't need to connect to almost anything.
Like that's why when we were talking a little bit earlier, I kind of mentioned if they're
doing something like really deep in like, you know, demigods, whatever creation sort
of thing, like other than Dave, I don't really trust them to do that in a way that I think
for me would be satisfying.
So I'd rather it be more just like mundane, I think, a mundane take on it.

(56:01):
Gotcha.
So not like too fantastical.
Right.
Yeah.
I, uh, I certainly hope they get his input, you know, if they do anything like that.
Um, I do think seeing James's mangled style, uh, that it will be a simple movie.
Like it's, I don't think.
Which I think is the safe way to go.
Yeah.
I don't think it's going to be an epic or a fantastical looking thing or some, you know,

(56:24):
very abstract, um, I'm looking for a pitch black, not a Chronicles of Riddick.
I mean, hey, hey, hey, hey, Chronicles of Riddick was the best one in that trilogy.
All right.
I agree.
I disagree.
I have not seen any of them, so I can't form an opinion there, but, uh, yeah, I, you know,

(56:45):
I, I, I feel like having seen some of his films and maybe you guys might agree with
this or disagree with this, but, um, I feel like what we can expect from James Mangold's
dawn of the Jedi is it will be simple.
It will be kept to the point and it will not have a lot to do with the Scott Walker saga
at all.
I think that's the idea.
Yeah.

(57:05):
And he has said something about that in an interview.
I think he said something about how the, the draw of doing a movie in that timeframe was
that he didn't need to worry about anything else.
I was like, okay, well that's.
I get.
I completely agree.
It's, it would be really nice to get away from the Skywalkers entirely at this point.
Like I love Anakin.
He's one of my favorite characters, but it kind of sucks when the whole universe constantly

(57:26):
revolves around one set of family.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I feel like, you know, dark horse with all their amazing, crazy stories that they
did over the nineties and over the, over the years, um, a lot of them have had nothing
to do with the Skywalkers at times.
And that's essentially what's kept fans going.
Like, you know, like in the dark times and in and around where there was no Star Wars

(57:47):
movies or shows coming out, like they did some pretty cool stories and some of it had
nothing to do with a Skywalker.
People love the KOTOR games and that's entirely different era characters that are better.
The races are familiar, but none of the names are.
Right.
Yeah.
And KOTOR is something that people have been asking for, for live action or cartoon or

(58:07):
whatever forever.
Like, I don't know a single person that doesn't love the KOTOR timeline.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know why they've been so hesitant on that.
I guess just focusing on stuff that people are familiar with, but now I think would be
a good time to try something like that.
So I doubt that's probably too late for what Mangled would do, but something in at least
that kind of vein, I would be very happy with.

(58:29):
Yeah.
My theory is if it goes well, that they do follow it up with an old Republic era movie,
having the backbone of James Mangled's world having taken place before, you know, to really
keep going.
So like do like a movie and then do a time jump and then do either another movie or a

(58:50):
series or something.
Yeah, in a different era.
Yeah.
That's what I think that could be a worthwhile plan, you know, assuming they get around to
doing any of this, of course.
But I, you know, it does make me a little sad that the next big theatrical release is
the safe, again, it's all with the safe ones.
It's like, let's fast track the Mandalorian and Grogu, right?
It's like you got all these crazy ideas for like, crazy isn't like cool, right?

(59:14):
Like I mean, well, first off, like they have the Dawn of the Jedi movie.
They've got the new Jedi Order movie.
They've got the, they did have the older Republic on the timeline.
No movies announced there yet.
Okay.
I'm glad to know it's at least written down somewhere official.
Yeah.
They had, they have the, well, the other Dave Filoni movie that's in the new Republic.
But I guess, you know, they went with the safe title, which was like, okay, what do

(59:38):
people, what do people know and love right now?
And it's like the Mandalorian and Grogu, right?
And I feel like we saw this mindset before with the Force Awakens, like, what do fans
really like?
They like 1977 says Star Wars, right?
Let's make that again.
You know?
So it kind of makes me sad that they're still kind of keeping that habit up.
But I guess on the other hand, it's like, okay, they did try things like Solo.

(01:00:00):
They did try things like the Acolyte, Bokobo, whatever.
There's been a number of things that I guess, didn't go the way they expected.
But some things went really well.
Like Rogue One went really well as well as, um, yeah, Rogue One, pardon?
Rogue One competes for one of my favorite movies in the Star Wars universe.
It's so well done.
And if you read the original script, it wasn't going to be that good.

(01:00:23):
Somebody leaked the scripts years ago and you can see in that movie where they were
originally going, but the reshoots that they did where it was like 40% of the movie or
something totally and completely made it on the level of Empire Strikes Back, in my opinion.
And I don't think you're alone in saying that either.
I think a lot of people really like Rogue One a lot.
Yeah.

(01:00:43):
And that had nothing to do with the Skywalkers.
It's Ben's favorite Star Wars movie.
There you go.
Like, you know, it's a very well made movie, right?
Like, it's like, I, you know, I think they have the ability and potential to do it right.
They can make a good Star Wars movie.
But I feel like we've seen more success with the shows so far.
So I guess the return to theatrical is because, you know, two of the five that they've done

(01:01:08):
have been, you know, would you argue, I guess maybe other than Acolyte, but that's kind
of a, it's tied to Phantom Menace.
Maybe it still fits my kind of my theory here.
Does it almost feel like the more unique stuff that isn't, doesn't have as pre people's previous
opinions connected to it seem to do better?
You could almost see like Obi-Wan wasn't as popular, Boba Fett wasn't popular, but Mandalorian

(01:01:32):
was really good.
Nobody knew who he was before he came out.
Yeah.
I'd say the same thing with the Rogue One characters.
I mean, Solo, people knew him before, so, you know, still fits the mold.
And the sequels.
It seems 50-50.
Yeah.
Yeah, it does.
But that, that is, um, I can see that pattern being, uh, you know, I can see that, I can
see that sort of playing a part in it for sure.
Because I would argue the same issue with the sequels kind of all lumped together because

(01:01:54):
people kind of had a pre-established idea of what should it be happening and it didn't
fit to that.
Yeah.
Um, and then Andor people, that was a new creation and that did really well.
Yeah.
But it's been off of Rogue One, which already was well.
And then Ahsoka was, um, I feel like that also did pretty well, um, but it was also
a continuation of stories that we had left off with Rebels, right?

(01:02:15):
So, so there was a lot of familiarity going in there as well.
So, and that one, I feel like.
That one probably, uh, breaks the mold.
I think the most.
Yeah, I think so.
Because it was more well-received, but it was also more minor characters.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I guess Luke's in it, but as far as like compared to like, uh, live action stuff
going on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I mean, like it, it, it is, um, it is an interesting thing to think about, uh, like

(01:02:37):
I guess we'll have to see how well this Mandalorian and Grogu.
Oh my God.
Sorry.
You mean Anakin was in it?
Yeah.
I was actually thinking of the scenes from when Ahsoka shows up in Mandalorian.
Oh, in, in Book of Boba, you mean?
See what I mean?
It's just all one big story in my head.
One big lump.
Yeah.
You can't tell them apart when you're getting the specifics like that.
Yeah.

(01:02:57):
Yeah.
All right.
Cool.
Um, well we've gone, uh, we've gone pretty long now, so I feel like we should wrap things
up here.
Um, we can save the other, uh, the other subjects for another day, but, um, yeah, I guess anyone
who is curious in reading the Dawn of the Jedi, uh, you know, go and check it out.
You can find it in the epic collections of the new republished Marvel legend, uh, the
Dark Horse republished by Marvel Star Wars legends stuff.

(01:03:21):
Tales of the Jedi volume one, uh, it compiles all the Dawn of the Jedi stuff all in one
book.
I would say if you're a fan of the storyline of, of KOTOR or the TOR game, you want some
backstory related to that.
It's worth checking out.
Yeah.
Especially, you know, seeing as it does cover things like the, you know, Star Forge and
stuff like that.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.

(01:03:42):
Yeah.
Um, cool.
Thank you so much for joining us this week as, as always, uh, always good to hear you.
Thank you for having me.
I'm happy to always toss in those attention deficit, the grenades that I do, and, uh,
the season two for Andor preview looks amazing.
It did.

(01:04:03):
Yeah.
Um, it did.
It did.
It did look amazing.
Looking forward to that.
We'll have to, we'll have to do a breakdown soon of that trailer.
And, uh, you know, we gotta, well, you gotta watch it first.
I'm halfway in.
It's not my fault.
One minute.
We'll lose service.
All right.
We'll catch in the next one.
We'll see you out there.
Keep flying.

(01:04:27):
All right.
Thank you so much to all of our listeners out there.
Really appreciate you all.
Uh, if you haven't checked our second show, uh, it is called Star Wars Launchpad.
Link is in the description below.
It is a bit of an experiment.
Uh, it is completely at a hundred percent generated by AI.

(01:04:49):
And we feed it articles from starwars.com and other major news sources to, uh, to get
the discussion that it comes up with.
It's interesting.
It's interesting to hear.
And, uh, we are not going anywhere with skate pod.
It is a bit of a side thing.
So if consuming AI content is in your, uh, realm of activities these days, go and check

(01:05:11):
it out.
Give it a follow.
Give it some five stars.
It's kind of funny to listen to.
And uh, you can follow us on X blue sky with the handle at SW escape podcast.
You can also use that handle to locate us on YouTube and subscribe there.
And he likes are much appreciated.
And we've got a number of stuff coming your way this year, along with celebration around

(01:05:35):
the corner.
Things are looking good.
We will see you in the next one.
May the force be with you.

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Dawn of the Jedi (Explained) | The Earliest Star Wars Legend

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dawn of the Jedi (Explained) | The Earliest Star Wars Legend