KOTOR Revisited, A Retrospective | Special Guest | Mike (Switch2ThePast) - Star Wars Escape Pod

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Time to abandon ship!

(00:05):
Oh no!
Here we go!
Can I persuade you to join us for a drink?
It's a tradition.
Here, here.
Jar Jar, homie, my main man, quickly.
Before the separatists attack, get into the escape pod.

(00:28):
Hey!
This is escape.
Then we're the pod!
This is escape pod!
Welcome back to Star Wars Escape Pod and another special guest episode.
We have Mike from Switch to the Past on the escape pod this week
with our other co-host Darian.

(00:50):
And we are going to be chatting about KOTOR,
the Glory Days, revisiting such a legendary game
that has had a lasting impact on Star Wars gaming culture
and so many other things.
So, without further ado, let's get into it.
Let's get into it.

(01:27):
Another happy landing.
all right welcome back uh and uh first up welcome back uh darian um thank you for
jumping on and uh doing this uh doing the co-hosting from uh from a little ways away
thank you for having me sorry to everyone if my audio is worse than even usual i tried my best

(01:47):
amazing uh well uh well i mean we can hear you loud and clear so so that's good and uh big special
welcome to mike from switch to the past yeah thanks for having me josh uh always excited to
be on here to talk about star wars i'm always down for some star wars talk just so that our
listeners our audience knows um where you're coming from and maybe also tell them a little

(02:08):
bit about switch to the past well so switch to the past is a podcast i co-host with uh my friend neil
uh i've been doing it for a while now uh done a different couple different variations we started
with the gamecube was cool podcast which is where we looked at all 555 gamecube games on uh in north
america on the console uh and now we've kind of moved over to more general nintendo talk but

(02:31):
sometimes we talk about things like star wars which were you were on for josh when we did the
revenge of the sith game uh for i think game boy advance is what we talked about it maybe a little
bit ds as well um for the 20th anniversary of that yes and welcome to our neck of the woods oh yes yeah
yeah welcome to our neck of the woods so uh where star wars is just on the menu every week

(02:51):
but uh yeah so i guess when um because we're we're we're kicking things off with a with a game called
uh knights of the old republic which launched in 2003 on july 15th and this game has had a pretty
lasting impact over over the star wars gaming community in fact it's had such a lasting impact

(03:14):
that uh its legacy continues on today in the form of a mmo called the old republic so uh it's it's
kind of a sequel uh in in some respects um a long-awaited sequel i guess by uh bioware but uh it was a
continuation of the story that left off in kotor 2 and it kind of it kind of evolved i guess as mmos do

(03:40):
but uh a lot of uh every every few years you know they'll drop another story package and they bring
characters back and uh most recently they did some crazy rev in plot line which i have no idea how
or what the premise is behind bringing that character back and if he's actually even back or
not but uh you know it's uh it's completely not canon and uh you know i think a lot of people just

(04:02):
have fun playing in the star wars galaxy as a as a character and uh discovering the story there
so knights of the older public really introduced a lot of people to the i guess the concept of of
of a role-playing game in that respect and i guess what was your experience like when you played this
game for the first time and uh you know what platform were you on and what year was it and

(04:23):
you know what's the story there with kotor for you sure yeah so for me the the first time i
actually played this game would have been very shortly after it launched in 2003 um my cousin who's
a bit older than me he loved star wars and and and his dad my uncle uh was a huge star wars fan from
back in the day and it's one of the reasons i got into the franchise and uh my cousin had kotor it had

(04:48):
just come out and he had it on his pc i was over there for christmas uh and we i was watching him play
it and uh i played a little bit of it as well but you know i i was so daunting to me i was like whoa
this is like such an adult game right like i'm like maybe nine or so at this point and i'm just
used to like playing i don't know my mario karts and my my my revenge of the sith ds or i guess not

(05:12):
revenge of the sith my attack of the clones uh on on my game boy advance at this point so um it was
such a different kind of game i had never really played uh this kind of role-playing game before
um so i i only maybe got in a couple chapters in i didn't play for that long until my cousin was just
oh i'll take it back i'm gonna do it so i watched him play it and played a lot of it and that was my

(05:34):
first kind of introduction to it and it wasn't until it wasn't until years later actually during
the pandemic that a friend of mine wanted to get into it and it had just come out on switch and i
thought you know what like this actually would be cool to play on switch um i've i've always wanted to
go back to this game and play it so i finally got to do that um yeah during the pandemic playing it on

(05:57):
the nintendo switch and i loved it like i i was so excited to play this and get back into this
universe again there were like little things that i did remember from uh watching my cousin play it and
and i'm me playing it myself too so it was it was a really cool experience to play on the switch
i i we're gonna get into this i'm sure but i i feel like the pc is probably still the better way to

(06:19):
play this game but um it was the switch was still a really good experience yeah that's awesome it's
great to see these games being kept alive in in this uh in this uh franchise i guess you know because
um one of the issues i have a lot with just media these days is that everything's been digitized and
and nothing's on analog anymore so it's very easy for something to no longer be compatible with a new

(06:45):
piece of hardware or uh it just gets lost forever and there's you know and this happens with movies
now too with streaming services and uh things go the way the toto when they write it off as a as a as a
tax you know thing and and they take it off the service and then no one can watch it anywhere um
and it's like it's it's good so it's good to see such an influential game like this like come to

(07:08):
pretty much every platform known to man like this this game has been re-released on when on windows
xbox mac ios android linux and switch like there's almost no platform that you can like not play this
game on which is which is pretty amazing so you know if you have the phone in your pocket you can
play this game so it's pretty amazing so uh yeah yeah yeah darian what was your uh exposure to this

(07:32):
game when um back when it so this was like yeah i was just out of high school when this game came out
and it was the first real role-playing game you could play on a gaming system because like
everything before this was they called them role-playing games you made decisions that
affected the story but you couldn't customize your character really so this is the first game where
you could take dnd stats and port them right into the game and customize your character to play the

(07:56):
way you wanted so i was insanely addicted to this and i probably played it six playthroughs through
the first year it was out so i played it on the xbox because you know that was the
only decent gaming system at the time but uh hey hey hey what's the gamecube come on
you guys did have the rogue squadron that didn't get released anything else i was always jealous of

(08:20):
that that's right but uh yeah yeah this honestly when i this game was brand new my impression was
it was a response to the backlash of the rule of two that was introduced in phantom menace where
where star wars fans were expecting there to be thousands of siths like there were thousands of
jedi and we wanted to see that war between a ton of sith and a ton of jedi this seemed like hey you

(08:44):
might not like the way the movies are going but we're still going to make you happy as fans
that's a good point i never thought of that actually but that's that's probably definitely
what happened in terms like in the writing room yeah i love that because this is this is exactly what i
wanted to see i didn't want to be the only jedi or the only sith i wanted to explore a world where

(09:05):
the opportunities were endless and this i still feel like this is probably the closest we ever got
there was um a bit of a multimedia project around this too like dark horse had published some comic
book series that took place before kotor launched uh launched and uh you know just curious like did uh
did you guys end up reading those by any chance like at any point in time or were those kind of uh

(09:26):
i guess a mystery to you for me it was kind of a mystery i never got into them but i like i knew
people who were reading them and i like i knew some of the lore and kind of like i i should actually
mention i did know a spoiler already of like i mean i know if we're spoiling stuff on this show but
with darth revan and like it being you right like that i knew that already um before i played it like

(09:51):
um in 2020 so i knew a lot about like the backstory of nights of the old republic i knew
some like the lore so to speak that that lucas um arts had really been kind of pushing with this
multimedia media project like you said uh and it was always something that was like super and still is
super interesting to me i would like to read those comics at some point because i think it's like when

(10:12):
you set something like 4 000 years before like the prequels you kind of leave yourself open to
able to do anything you want and that's that's something that's always fun right yeah and uh
you know it's um i think as time's gone by as well you know there's been novels that have come out
with the old republic label on it and uh you know do have kind of those ties to the the nights of the

(10:34):
old republic series but uh yeah what about you darian did you did you end up doing any reading uh
any old republic stuff no i didn't find out about any of that until years later and i didn't really
feel gravitated to go and get it because at the time marvel comics had not been doing a good job
in the star wars universe so to go out when i was when you live in a small town and try and find a

(10:56):
comic store that might carry a star wars title was a lot of effort and i had already beaten the game so
i knew the mystery for that that got revealed that i didn't see coming so the appeal of the comics just
didn't grab me at the time so yeah so something about this game that i guess um if anyone hasn't
played it was uh uh kind of wondering about the alignment system that you were talking about

(11:18):
uh darian like making choices that affect the game uh this was something that was pretty new to
i think most games is that you know choosing certain things would have an impact on the story
on the character and on your alignment and you would have like a little tracker that kind of
lets you know as a player i guess if you were aligned with the light side or the dark side and i think
it was maybe i mean you know tell me if i'm wrong but possibly the first time in a star wars story

(11:42):
that we were introduced to this idea of like gray jedi um but uh yeah what like how did you uh like
that mike like when you played that for the first time like what did you think of the alignment system
well as first as a kid playing that like that is the coolest thing on earth right it's like that's all
a kid ever and adult honestly but that's all a kid would ever want to do right it's just like

(12:02):
it's fun to be the bad guy it's fun to to be able to choose like uh to to do these kind of uh actions
that will make you more sith or more like more dark side more light side it was just such a natural
thing that i'm i was kind of surprised that this wasn't showcased in any star wars game before
this considering the amount of star wars games that were out uh at this point um i i loved it and i

(12:27):
loved it playing it in modern day as well like it's i and it's also makes it more replayable
right like i've played it now two or three times where i've gone full full dark side full light side
and then often kind of just like trying like a almost gray jedi type um character and i mean i
always prefer going full dark side that's just i play fallout the same way like i'm i'm that guy for

(12:52):
sure but it's it's fun to see kind of what changes and for again for a 2003 game like there's a ridiculous
amount of stuff that can change based on the your choices and it was funny because i was playing
this and maybe very soon after i was playing hogwarts legacy a completely different franchise i know
by a modern game and in hogwarts legacy they're constantly giving you these dialogue trees that

(13:15):
end up really just being nothing like nothing happens out of it and the cut scenes don't change
your character doesn't really change and then i'm playing this 2003 game at the same time where like
you can have complete control and command over how you want your story to progress and i thought that
was just so cool to have that comparison to see um that this game holds up so well still yeah that's

(13:36):
a great point like i mean i was just so i don't know this crazy coincidence but i was just because
i loved hogwarts legacy but but that was the one thing one of the few things actually that i thought
man this really could have been different like i i would have loved for there to be some sort of
consequence for you know the moment in the game when you finally unlock avada kedavra you're just going

(13:56):
around one shotting massive trolls and then just taking off in the broom and you're supposed to be
this like 15 year old kid going to school and it's like there's got to be some kind of like
psychological impact here like you know what i mean and uh and i thought to myself like man like this
is crazy and then the other day i read an article about hogwarts legacy 2 and how this is a

(14:17):
potentially rumored game that they're probably working on most likely because you know the game
made a lot of money and uh that was something that a lot of i guess a lot of people are hoping
for is that with the second game that they do have some sort of alignment system kind of like
kotor is that um whatever you end up choosing to do with your combat abilities and certain spells and

(14:38):
certain uh dialogue choices i guess would affect your reputation or your uh for being a good or a dark
wizard and then uh of course a lot of people have been really missing the house point system
completely different thing but here but like uh you know if you're like in gravenclaw you kind of you
know you're rooting for your house right but if you do some sort of dark stuff uh then at least the

(14:59):
teachers can like if they get wind of it maybe they take away some points or something like that so
i like that there's some consequence there and uh blake and i just played most recently we had a chat
about a studio called quantic dream and we just played through uh detroit and uh and uh a game called
beyond two souls and uh the the entire narrative of the game is constructed around the player

(15:22):
with the freedom to choose what you want to do and what you want to say and it actually is built to to
do that it's built around the the possibility of you saying this so then it does this and the story
goes there and there is 40 different ways that this game can end and uh that blew me away like it was the
first time that i'd experienced anything so sort of narratively realistic but also responsive to

(15:43):
someone's choices and uh very much more advanced than the the kotor thing but we're talking to get
out a game that came out in 2003 so it's it's incredibly impressive that they managed to do
this yeah um and it's bioware right and like the bioware really showing their chops here and of
course bioware making mass effect uh series immediately after this which is really mass effect
is the spiritual successor to kotor because kotor 2 is not bioware i forget who um who made it but

(16:10):
bioware didn't have any uh really anything to do with it at that point the team was already
uh creating mass effect because i'm not sure if we're going to talk about this josh but
um i know that bioware presented mass effect to lucas arts and was like hey star wars and they're
like no and they're like okay we're gonna do our own thing and that's just like always such a

(16:31):
a huge miss like imagine if mass effect was star wars themed oh man it'd be incredible that's crazy
crazy yeah because mass effect is such a huge like gaming title still like you know yeah that's
amazing i didn't know that that was supposed to be a star wars thing that's crazy yeah yeah they
they assumed that they were gonna like a lot of these you know smaller devs they assume that the

(16:53):
the bigger company the publisher is going to keep them on and i mean nintendo did this with rare as we
know too like they these publishers kind of lose sight of that they see they put something out that's
profitable but then they want to just do the same thing over and over again and obviously good
developers don't want to do that they want to make original ideas and uh in the end we got mass effect
so that's great because that's a great series but yeah it's just it's like another like what if

(17:17):
yeah yeah 100 uh yeah darian what what would you say about this game having an impact on star wars
culture like um in the way of or just even just in cultural in in general like have you noticed like
a pattern with games going forward after this game came out do you notice anything within star wars
itself that kind of shifted after this game anything like that oh definitely i would say

(17:37):
that all star wars games added role-playing elements of them after this except for maybe
the most like hardcore shooters but even if you look in battlefield and stuff there is character
development in there that i don't think we would have seen without kotor but what i'd say it
affected more than anything was all of a sudden the books were no longer just talking about the main
three characters from the original star wars trilogy or or the clone wars now all of a sudden you're

(18:03):
you're starting to see all these different time periods and that's where they go back and talk
about the introduction of the jedi and cosplayers all of a sudden are now coming up with their own
new star wars characters for like the set of the jedi and whatnot and not just following the movies like
i feel like this made star wars fans realize that they could make star wars their own thing that they

(18:24):
could represent themselves how they want it rather than just trying to play luke leia ham and dark maul
right yeah yeah like there's some yeah there's some investment there in i guess your own journey
like your own story and uh i don't i guess in some ways like when i play a game like jedi fallen order
or something like that like i'm very invested in the character that i'm playing um and uh yeah i don't know

(18:47):
like i mean i didn't play a whole lot of games like kotor or like um first person action adventure
games like jedi way back then because you know i was glued to my game boy but uh which is a bit of a
different experience uh but uh but yeah i mean i i don't know i think i think this game probably did
have some big cultural impact there and and uh you know amongst amongst the dev community i'm sure

(19:10):
this game really sort of rocked the boat so to speak you know and left an impact um elsewhere it's
interesting too because this game like it's a lot of people kind of now will characterize it as having
a lot of archaic design elements in it which is kind of like it is correct but i feel like that's
something that um this there's so much like story and heart and things in this game that that you

(19:34):
can look past those elements i feel um like from a dev perspective if you're thinking that because
like developers when this came out i assume were probably like wow like this is really good but like
it's interesting that you're using this kind of like full turn-based attack mode um in an action
rpg like that's that's that's in 2003 that is a bit of uh an old thing to be doing even then

(19:56):
yeah yeah a lot of people seemed upset by that when it was new like hey we got rid of this a while ago
because we found it with players weren't engaging and now you brought it back and like doubled down
on it if anything yeah so i really think for that it's just the ease of development right like
bioware small studio they they had created this massive world and probably worked so hard to

(20:19):
create this game and its environments and everything the characters the decision trees
like there's so much that they had to do and then they're like okay but what do we actually do for
gameplay because like we cannot like create a full just action adventure game like we need to make it
like this turn-based style and i think that's i think that's the only thing that will stop some people

(20:39):
from wanting to play it and uh and get into it more uh in present day which is why i would love
to see this game remade i know they're supposed to remake it no idea what's happening there but
yeah what what's your what's your thoughts on that well yeah darian let me start with you uh
what are your thoughts on the remake i want to see it so bad especially because like i recently started

(21:01):
playing kotor again just to familiarize myself with the story because you never know i was like 20 a
time and well probably not even that old and my interpretation is probably entirely different now
i remember the good and bad system the dark and light was a little chunky in the first one and the
second one they got a little bit better but i want to see them just give us better graphics make

(21:22):
the games play smoother so all the glitches aren't there that you know we're very forgiving of now
nobody sits and complains about the glitches of that game but they're pretty much constant like
especially when you're getting in and out of battles things disappear and reappear so it's yeah
i i don't see that being a failure in any way i don't know why it's taking so many different

(21:43):
studios to try their hand at it to get it to work it seems like a pretty easy port especially with
halo one and two being ported over to a newer uh system where they're running two systems at once
it's not a game that requires a lot of hardware to run so just give us an overlay of better
graphics and and do some voice acting and whatnot but i'm not really a tech guy so that comes from

(22:06):
a complete place of ignorance there was um this same year that uh kotor came out there was actually
a lot of stuff that did happen in star wars um i think it was the the gandhi tardavoski uh clone wars
series had started to yes launch uh so that introduced a lot of fans to uh asajj ventris which
was a bit of a game changer kind of like what you're saying darian how there was this rule of two

(22:30):
and some people were maybe a little little jaded that they didn't get to see more dark side people
and and that so that that same year you know not only do we have kotor with this concept of uh
thousands of sith kind of a thousand years before the movies but we also had this idea that in the
modern day story that we're watching there there is still sort of these this backstabbing idea that

(22:51):
you know one apprentice could betray the master if they took on their own assassin so to speak and and
trained them up well enough to to become their apprentice uh so so that was a big thing that
year and uh there was another thing that came out that year which was uh jedi knight jedi academy that
came out in in september of 2003 uh this was uh i don't know i don't want to call it a similar game

(23:15):
but this was you know still very much a i guess an action rpg story driven narrative uh that also came
out on on a few platforms and uh the same year i think it was the mmo at the time called star wars
galaxies uh in the first week 125 000 customers uh sign up to live out the virtual life in the star

(23:36):
wars universe so you know that was also another thing that came up that year so it was it was a big
year for for star wars gaming um surrounding this event of of kotor um so i guess like did you guys
have any i don't know do you think you can draw any lines towards those things or like did you play
any of those other things that came out that year or was kotor kind of like the staple staple thing

(23:57):
i've only played jedi academy um for and or jedi outcast uh for the gamecube when we were doing the uh
the podcast because we of course had to play every star wars game that came out on uh the nintendo
gamecube and that was one of them um and they're good games uh there's it's there's two in the series um
but it's actually also the worst naming convention of all time uh for them because it's like what is

(24:22):
it like jedi knight 2 like jedi outcast and it's yeah yeah it's very confusing um those um yeah those
games uh were very they're they're good but they they lack the same kind of heart and attention to
detail and characterization that kotor had like i think uh for kotor you play the game for the story

(24:45):
and for the the characterizations and for like the decisions you could make like it's one of the
few games i've ever had where i genuinely will feel bad if i mess something up you know if i don't go
down like a certain path that i'm going for like oh no like i feel like i didn't want to do that um
where in the other games like it's they're again they're good games they're solid games they definitely

(25:08):
just don't hold up uh to the same level of quality that uh night sale of the old republic does yeah
yeah how about you darren did you uh did you experiment when uh with any of these others
the same year or was was kotor just the the dominant uh game on your on your list that year
well i moved to colonna just before the uh multiplayer online one came out so colonna didn't

(25:30):
have high speed internet that was reliable at the time you'd start playing and then all of a sudden
you're in a crash for two hours or you'd lag so bad that you'd all of a sudden just die because
some rancor ran up to you and killed you but you didn't know you're in a battle so you just
kept walking down the beach so i never really got into that one and it seemed like it was a really
great game yeah that's a yeah right yeah so so that made that game impossible to play and then

(25:56):
there was such a backlash for kyle katarn be a jedi master in jedi knight that my friends hated on it
so much i just figured it would be a terrible game so i didn't play that yeah i didn't play that until
way later because like the only exposure i had to kyle katarn was uh mysteries of the sif and
what was the first one anyways the where he was like this action hero kind of guy like ham solo so

(26:19):
all of a sudden he's this jedi master and it's like what yeah i forgot about that that is a whole
thing with that franchise um yeah i never i just never got into that franchise as much unfortunately i
wish i i sometimes i wish i did but at the same time like like you said darian like i i feel like
people don't usually speak that highly of it like i never hear people be like oh like outcast is my

(26:42):
favorite star wars game ever like i've never heard that sentence in my life me neither yeah i honestly
don't know anyone that's about that game on any level yeah they're not bad games um that's the thing
they're just yeah like i think you're that's what you're getting to just like they're it's just the
nostalgia it just isn't there like you've played it you're like okay yeah i think it seems like they

(27:03):
were just trying to bank on a character that people are familiar with as a touchstone and it was like
yeah you don't understand your fans enough so yeah so i guess that hasn't changed so i guess just to
put that in no that hasn't changed yeah i guess just to put it in uh in in perspective i guess
you know these are these are reasons why kotor was such a standout i guess right um yeah and it was

(27:28):
only the following year in december that the sequel knights of the old republic 2 the sith lords came
out uh as well and this was the same year that revenge of the sith was announced at comic-con with
the full title card uh this was the the same year that the first republic commando book by karen
travis called hard contact was released which then the game would follow uh the following year for that

(27:52):
series uh it was also the first expansion pack for the star wars galaxy's mmo online which was
adding starship travel and combat uh to the game so uh oh and battlefront of course a title which
also still continues to carry a very uh memorable memorable license for a lot of people these days
but um yeah did you guys play i guess we'll start with you mike like did you play kotor 2 and uh what did

(28:18):
you think of the sith lords because yeah i guess this this was the the year that the sith were really
coming back as far as like a a popular thing you know the sequel was named the sith lords we also had
a movie coming out the following year called revenge of the sith you know lots of emphasis around sort of
the dark the dark side and and this and that so what did you think of that story well unfortunately i

(28:40):
didn't really play kotor 2 i only played like maybe the first couple chapters and it wasn't anything
of like i didn't like it it was more just i played it right after kotor and i already spent so much
time in that um and i started playing kotor 2 and then i was like uh i don't know i need a break from
this and then the break just went on forever and then i went back to just playing kotor 1 so

(29:02):
i unfortunately never finished kotor 2 but i know some of the story and yeah i know very sith heavy
um and that's actually a really good point you're making there i didn't even like tie the two and two
together that yeah like this was kind of star wars pushing the the sith i guess and pushing the
fact that we're gonna have an m you know the empire's back and a lot of people's eyes for that

(29:24):
uh yeah it's interesting i didn't think of that definitely yeah what about you darren did you play
kotor 2 i remember kotor 2 is probably the most hyped thing i've ever seen in star wars and they
didn't spend a lot of money on the advertising it's just fans were so ravenous at hate because
my one gripe about first game is you can't truly be dark side in that game like you can make dark

(29:47):
side decisions but you are very very punished for it your most of your cohorts do not like you being
dark side whereas kotor 2 it was i feel it was perfectly balanced you can be dark side but you
got to choose these people to go with you can be good side but you have to choose these other people
to go with that was the game where they lived into their bands by far the most everything that was

(30:08):
wrong with the first game that they could with the limitations of the technology but they didn't
give it enough development time they were just so hot to get it out that they didn't give the
writers legs to make it as impactful as a story it's still a great story don't get me wrong but the
first one two-thirds of the game through you find out something that struck you in the storyline you

(30:28):
know you think you're investigating this other person and whatnot and then it's it's like uh the guy who
made signs he did those movies where there was such a weird plot twist yeah it was like that level of
plot twist in the game and nobody saw it coming yeah this um yeah just to what you said as well about
how they they kind of rushed this game i mean first off like i couldn't believe that this game came out

(30:51):
like like barely a year and a half after the first one came out and also uh it did launch with i guess
some some some issues but uh some bugs and uh i've also heard i think a lot of people who know
about this game have probably also heard that the game came out in a bit of an incomplete state
like there were some storylines i guess that were chopped or some content that was uh missing i guess from

(31:15):
the final product which they tried to polish around but was uh i guess left a bit of a bit of a hole
somewhere um i never got that far in that game to actually recognize what that was but um i do know
that uh a notable fan mod called the sith lords restored content modification uh servers is it's
an unofficial patch but they fixed around 500 remaining bugs and along with restoring most of

(31:40):
the content that was cut from the game so i don't know how on earth they did that but uh there were
you know other ways of of improve of improving uh the game a little bit kind of years later but uh that
was just kind of something i want to throw out there for that game but still i mean it still remains to
be uh a fairly highly respected game it sold a lot of copies and uh you know got good reviews and
stuff like that so i would actually say that i'll go ahead but uh i'd actually say that some of the

(32:05):
characters in kotor 2 are more iconic than kotor 1 and possibly almost any other game because like
dark nihilus is something i see every second convention i go to somebody's cosplaying dark nihilus
yeah when you watch light favorite battles on youtube somebody's always got the nihilus mask
painted on their their fencing helmet so like that's that's a character that and like when we

(32:27):
did our uh fantasy draft i had to mention specifically like nihilus is not a usable character
he can wipe out planets make the game not fun right right that was for our 400 uh anniversary game
show episode that we did recently and uh oh very cool yeah we did a bit of a uh um uh kind of a
fantasy football type game but uh you have to construct a team made up of uh certain categories

(32:52):
of of characters uh that need to break into palpatine's vault and you have to argue why they
would be a successful team uh but uh yeah that was one of the rules that darian set out was uh was
yeah you can't play as any planet universe breaking characters pair yeah yeah but yeah i uh i totally
agree i mean nihilus was uh it was a crazy character i mean i i also i've played the star

(33:15):
wars miniatures game for a long time uh but the one by wizards of the coast and uh his his character
was like it was like a hundred dollars to like buy him separately online you know he was like super rare
and uh crazy crazy like just game breaking powers like it was uh it's like borderline borderline hack
but i think like the caveat to that was that he was so expensive to play that you know you could

(33:37):
barely have like an actual army around him like it was like it's like okay yeah you're playing as
nihilist like okay you maybe get like a handful of other guys but like not very many um yeah i uh i
guess i haven't really played a whole lot of this one but uh just a backstory for me because i totally
didn't go over it was um both of these games i actually played later after they'd come out um wasn't

(34:00):
really a pc game or any like i was i was very much glued to the game boy you know back in 2003 and 2004 but
um the games eventually came into my uh onto my radar i guess when i was visiting some family in
europe and i was in this little toy store in a local mall and uh this must have been 2008 or 2009

(34:20):
uh something like that and possibly 2007 and it was it was uh so it was a while after they came out i
guess at the time but they were in the five dollar like game bin type thing but well five euros i guess
and uh it was uh it was just a stack that i brought home i brought home republic commando
kotor kotor 2 and i think that was it i think it was just like the three but um but i played all

(34:46):
them and out of the three i was enamored most by republic commando uh but uh but kotor was still
was still pretty awesome and then i had some issues playing kotor 2 but um that was just a you know
old computer stuff but uh but yeah it was uh it was it was a solid game so that's my story that's my
exposure to eventually kind of how i came to came to play the games but um yeah they the cultural

(35:08):
impact of kotor 2 is is is pretty nuts um and uh yeah i don't know like darian what would you say
about um i guess some of the other characters like like nihilus is a big one but uh there was there
was another one that was i guess pretty big from that game too right um was it uh uh scion or
something darth uh darth scion i'm just uh because i don't remember his name but there was so there's

(35:32):
actually two other sith characters that all three of them were vying to be the master of the dark side
and i'm just pulling up characters now uh korea yeah trans yeah yeah yeah and yeah they were that was
the first time where he really got to equal what the dark side did to their bodies because there's all
these stories previous to that as of like vader rotting because the dark side is destroying his

(35:57):
body that the emperor is rotting but it was just it seemed the same whereas like korea went blind
because of the force attacks and stuff uh the the guy that could not die his body was like
crystallizing and like shattering and then re coming together by pure hatred and anger yeah so
like it wasn't just that they rotted it was that their use of the dark side of the force did very

(36:20):
specific things to them based on what they were doing with their powers so you know like uh the
big guy just he had an insatiable hunger the more power he got the hungrier he got the hungrier he got
the more he killed the more he killed the more powerful and it was just like never-ending cycle
of he was his own worst enemy it wasn't just that he was rotting he became a void entirely like his

(36:42):
entire body basically becomes a void in a metaphorical sort of way because he just needs to sustain
himself by wiping out life yeah so it wasn't it wasn't just a cut and dry thing that you see in
the movies yeah big uh big impact on the lore there with you know things like powers that that the dark
side has to offer i guess that uh can only be found there so uh yeah i guess uh to kind of probably

(37:06):
it was probably the first time that you also see that you know dark side users use less energy and
and are easier to use dark side powers than the jedi you know the jedi could use certain dark side's
abilities but it would entirely drain them whereas the dark side couldn't really heal themselves and
stuff like the jedi could because that was a good side force power so they yeah i feel like that game

(37:29):
enhanced force abilities and the lore behind them more than anything else yeah yeah for sure um i guess
to start to wrap things up here um you know mike what would you say to players who are looking to
you know perhaps they're perhaps they're looking for a new star wars game to play before um before
the next big one comes out you know because it's i guess we got zero company on the roster um i don't

(37:52):
know i guess what what all the platforms are that that'll be available on but uh outlaws was the most
recently available and i think that just dropped on switch if i'm not mistaken right yeah it's on switch
yeah switch too yeah um so uh yeah what would you say to to star wars fans that are like they don't
they're they're gaming on switch and they're looking for a new star wars game they never played
kOTOR uh you know what how would you recommend the game to them i mean first of all it's almost

(38:15):
always on sale on switch um it's it's usually pretty cheap uh 15 bucks or so i think is what i got it for
um which is honestly a great investment it's i think go into the game with an open mind about combat
about um about what you're gonna have to kind of go through in terms of those quote-unquote archaic game

(38:35):
design elements that we were talking about earlier but asper who is the developer on this who who
ported the game over to switch they did a fantastic job um with the limitations of the hardware like i
think they did a really good job of bringing us to switch the game plays really nicely uh on especially
when you're playing handheld like it's it was really cool being able to play knights of the old republic

(38:59):
like on a handheld device like like 10 year old me would be absolutely uh enamored uh by seeing that
like that's that was just so cool to me that i was like playing it on the train the other day i was
oh i'm playing kOTOR in the wild this is so cool like it's it was i think that's like something that
the switch is like magical for honestly i mean and you can do the steam deck too now which is great

(39:21):
but um i think if you're a star wars fan and you like story you like characters and you haven't
played this game you need to play this game this is arguably and honestly objectively the best star
wars game uh for characterization like it's and kOTOR 2 as well i i know like they're both really good

(39:41):
for that and like the story is great the the twists are great the uh the you know the the light
dark meters fun um and you truly get invested in everything and i i wanted to bring up my uh my
favorite side quest uh um as i know a little aside here but it kind of works with my my selling
my selling point here um my favorite side quest i don't know if you guys remember it's uh i had to

(40:07):
look it up the name of it it's a sandral matt metalli feud it's like the romeo and juliette quest
you know i'm talking about on dantooine oh man i i don't think i got to that uh
did you dare you uh i vaguely remembered i think i killed them my first couple players yeah
so this is the one where it's like you're on dantooine and you come to this house and you meet

(40:29):
the daughter and then you meet the son and like they're they're from two rival families and then
they want to get together and there's so many options for dialogue that you can choose uh and
it's quite hard for you to like make it every all work out and i remember the first time i ever did it
i basically got everyone to just shoot themselves and kill themselves and that was it
and that made me like that was kind of like the tipping point for me where i was like okay i like

(40:58):
this game a lot this is a really good game like that that they they animated like the worst scenario
and then like i found out there's like 10 different scenarios for this one side quest i thought that
was so cool and it's it's not just that side quest it's like every quest that you do that there's so
much detail and care put into this and the amount of fun that you can have which is something like

(41:18):
that really kind of shows you that um there's a lot of great game playing here it's also not like a
super long game i think i beat it in 20 25 hours like fully after like going through every everything
so it's it's a good game that's not going to eat up all of your time and you'll have a lot of fun
amazing yeah uh darian how would you uh sell this game to a star wars fan uh i don't know

(41:40):
necessarily it might might sell it's perfect but there are two games that can give star wars fans
two very different satiations for the star wars universe the first one has such depth in character
development and plot and you can do what you want with your character and discover how you affect the
universe in in such an interesting way and it's such a d game but it requires patience because there is an

(42:05):
incredible amount of reading in that game it's way before they could just do voice lines for it yes
the only downside to that game is you can't truly be dark side so if you want to be dark side you want
to you want to get out your evil star wars power fanity play koltor 2 because that game doesn't have
nearly the character depth but you can play that exactly how you want customize your companions to be

(42:29):
as helpful to whatever your goals are that you want them to be and and you can truly do it so that
that game gets that in space it's it's less reading there's still quite a bit of reading in that game
but i didn't find that it was taking me out as much so that's my honest opinion of if you should play
those games or not perfect all right well uh thank you guys so much and uh mike where can people listen

(42:53):
to switch to the past and how can people follow you on uh on uh on an x or blue sky or whatever you're
on these days sure um i did want to say also sorry before i i give my pitch to my own channel and
myself uh one more pitch for my sales pitch to add uh is if you're tired of all the fan service basically

(43:14):
and a lot of these star wars shows and things where it's like look it's yoda you know or like look
it's i think kotor does a great job of giving you a completely new universe where you're not
constantly hit with like hey remember that guy from that movie so yeah right that's my other
but it's also while it's a new universe and they're all new characters everything is familiar
and almost everything feels like the used star wars universe we're used to right exactly love it

(43:38):
see together we created a great sales pitch there you go there you go yeah amazing amazing way to
end it um but yes uh switch to the past that's me um i'm mike uh half the show the other half is
neil who also loves star wars but he hasn't played kotor and i keep telling him he should play kotor
but that's okay he just needs to listen to this and then he'll be sold exactly he'll be sold now

(44:02):
and now he can he'll be sold he'll play it and we can do it on our own show uh at some point that
would be really cool but um yes uh switch to the past uh mostly where we post um for the socials is
on instagram we are at switch to the past that's the number two um and we post over there you know
quite often show what we're doing what episodes we're doing uh we usually do three episodes a

(44:27):
month uh or so just depending on on how life is going um right now or we had just put out uh
the yakuza episode uh because the all the yakuza games just came out for switch uh which is very
exciting and uh we're going to be doing a couple more episodes this month uh and next month i should
say uh kirby air riders oh yeah is coming out for the switch and so we're going to do the kirby air

(44:50):
ride uh the original game and we're going to do that episode for uh gamecube and talk about that a
lot but yeah thursdays usually every week or every other week that's when we put content out and then
check us out at on instagram at switch to the past amazing thank you so much mike and uh thank you
darian for joining and uh i and also darian you just started up a youtube channel yourself right

(45:13):
yeah i am the mandarian on youtube if you are ever curious as to how to spell that type in the
mandalorian and remove the el neo awesome perfect ah clever hey that's actually another thing mandalorian
stuff in this is this the first time that mandalorians were shown in a star wars game
this is the first time you could at least play them i think you could uh show the umpire had boba

(45:38):
fett and whatnot but this is where you actually have to experience the mandalorian culture and i believe
it's the first reference to the mandalorian war where they try to take over the galaxy yes yeah
yeah it was uh it was cool playing it like now and i was like wait a minute mandalorians
yeah this is so old it's become an even bigger thing now yeah yeah it's just kind of almost a

(46:00):
throwaway like you i think they're on dantooine there's there's a mission with them that you have
to do um and it's like relatively prominent in the game so that that kind of i just remember it now
in kotor 2 you get mandalore the great with you he he travels with you he's the head of the
mandalorians and part of your party oh that's cool really really cool that pager pascal was able to uh

(46:21):
to lend his voice uh early on there yeah all right guys thanks so much for uh for joining and uh we'll
see you in another episode thank you for having us this is the way good this is the way thank you so
much all right thank you and uh thank you to our audience for joining in this week uh don't forget

(46:44):
to follow mike switch to the past and darian as well links are all in the description may the force be
with you and we will see you in the next episode of star wars escape on
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KOTOR Revisited, A Retrospective | Special Guest | Mike (Switch2ThePast)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}KOTOR Revisited, A Retrospective | Special Guest | Mike (Switch2ThePast)