Speculating the New Jedi Order era | Force Collector Book & TROS Hints What's To Come? - Star Wars Escape Pod

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Time to abandon ship!

(00:05):
Oh no!
Here we go!
Can I persuade you to join us for a drink?
It's a tradition.
Here, here.
Jar Jar, homie, my main man, quickly.
Before the separatists attack, get into the escape pod.

(00:28):
Hey!
This is escape!
Then we're the pod!
This is the pod!
Welcome back to Star Wars Escape Pod,
and our special episode this week.
We've got our old friend Francis back here with us
as a special guest to join us in a chat

(00:51):
about the new Jedi Order,
which is an era that has been announced
and it's official,
and there's a movie coming or two,
and we're just gonna be doing some speculation
based on what stories we have to work with
and draw some comparisons with the old new Jedi Order
from the old expanded universe
and see what kind of things would be cool
if they brought over.
So, without further ado,

(01:12):
let's join our co-host Blake
in the escape pod and dive right in.
I'm a solo, I'm high solo, I'm a solo, I'm a solo.

(01:35):
Another happy landing.
all right welcome back uh hello blake ahoy ahoy i was just thinking it's been a hot minute since
we heard the the original soundtrack to the podcast yeah it's been uh three three weeks
yeah oh my goodness it feels like a while yeah yeah and uh i still have a preference to it if

(01:57):
i'm honest yeah yeah that's fair that's fair i mean 300 episodes in to be fair i mean uh you
know who wouldn't right but welcome back francis hello hello hello hello it's been a little while
when was the last episode that people heard you on oh good god um was that a lightsaber episode
it would either be lightsabers or when we talked about the um top books oh yeah i i think that may

(02:22):
have been it actually like it was like the top uh tops top star wars books in our in our opinions you
know yeah i think that was the end of december right yeah yeah yeah okay all right cool um so uh
uh today we're i mean we're kind of talking about more books and stuff like that um yeah uh but uh

(02:43):
it's it's sort of all-inclusive you know we're talking a little bit about books talking a little
bit about movies a little bit about um some uh plans that they have you know coming at us
and uh you know thought it might be interesting to dive right into this stuff so um you know first
things first uh some uh some small um thing to note is uh the uh the disney canon era if you will like

(03:11):
you know star wars uh star wars.com i think it was it was like a year or two ago that they revealed
this uh timeline you know of uh of eras and uh it's on the star wars.com website where you can
see like the names for the different eras and uh i think what's this one called is it uh oh here you

(03:33):
go so if you go to star wars.com and then you go to databank you click eras at the very bottom
and all the names for all the eras are there so there is dawn of the jedi the old republic the
higher republic follow the jedi reign of the empire age of rebellion the new republic rise of the first
order and new jedi order so those are all the eras uh and in the old expanded universe it was uh it was

(03:57):
a little different like they had like different like labels for the different eras and stuff like
that um except the new jedi order era was always very uh it's kind of the same like the they kept the
name very very much identical to how it was before um even the logo is actually very kind of reminiscent
as well but um you've read some of the old expanded universe new jedi order era books before the disney

(04:20):
takeover right yes yeah so um like in a nutshell just like um what what did you think of that series
and like you know like just how did you like that that book series oh god it's been a hot sec
um did you enjoy using vong start simple yeah yeah because they're a little out of left field
the first book in the series is called vector prime and uh it's uh yeah it's written by r.a

(04:48):
salvator and it came out on october 5th 1999 and it introduces the use and vong and their plans to
to dominate the galaxy so yeah they did feel um i remember reading those books it's been a couple of
years now but i remember reading them and thinking who the hell are these people yeah yeah they never
seemed like star wars to me but yeah i get they're trying to change it up it really felt like they

(05:12):
were trying to at first kind of like shoehorn them in and kind of make it it kind of felt like um
what a lot of um modern stories are doing and it's kind of it kind of felt like they were doing their
own story that they that they wanted to write and their own kind of like little universe but they
couldn't get it approved so they chose to do it in star wars and it kind of just felt like

(05:35):
we made this really cool story um but we're gonna put it into the star wars universe just to kind of
like shoehorn it in use the ip yeah exactly um but i i think like um i think as it progressed
it definitely came together a bit better um after after reading more of it um it was generally

(05:55):
i think it got better written as the books went on yeah there's some uh good authors like james
lucino wrote um one two three four five uh like the fourth and fifth book in the series um they had
matthew stover who's uh known as the author of revenge of the sith and novelization he wrote one of the
books in the middle of the series there as well uh by the way this is a really long series of books

(06:19):
like this was between 19 and like 21 books or something like that and these are like adult
yeah these are adult books they spanned from october 99 uh so the same year that the phantom menace came
out uh and hit i did not know that and it went all the way until uh 2000 actually i say all the way

(06:40):
it went until 2003 so it went for a couple couple how many books in four years it was like like almost
21 books i'm gonna be honest i didn't know there were 20 books i read like six or seven
you're probably not alone that's a lot of books yeah it is a lot and then troy denning capped off
the era with the dark nest trilogy so and those technically are in the the era that's uh the troy

(07:03):
denning darkness one two and three um but they kick things off with a bang uh r.a salvatore with
vector prime um right out of the gate this is the book that is known inside the eu as the book that
killed chewbacca oh right and they crushed him with a moon yeah like a planet net landed on him
yeah that's like so well known across just like the fan base yeah it's so ridiculous it is yeah

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so uh they did what it made its way into an article in star wars insider number 83 called the 20 most
memorable moments uh across the expanded universe and uh i think at some point it might be worth like
looking into that i i heard a story about this about why they picked chewbacca because they
apparently they asked lucasfilm they said like they want to have a big moment they want like a

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character to die and so they asked lucasfilm for a list of which characters they're allowed to to
kill in this moment and for some reason chewbacca was on the list of eligible characters to be killed
and so naturally they took chewbacca yeah of course because why wouldn't he if he's there
he's like the biggest one on the list i know like i feel like that was a mistake i feel like maybe he

(08:13):
acts like maybe maybe it was the other way around maybe they made a list they're like hey anyone not
on this list it's like chewbacca and hot and it's like they forgot about chewbacca it's like how they
forgot to give him a medal that's right that's what is it about chewbacca that people keep he's like
massive dude how can you miss him honestly this just keeps happening i can't help but feel like

(08:33):
george does not care about chewbacca as much as we do as fans definitely not definitely uh but yeah
so anyway uh vector prime sort of set this this idea of like okay this is going to be a dark era
this is going to be a dark period of time for luke's new jedi order you know which he has been building

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in the previous uh era in the expanded universe which uh was the um new republic uh era i believe
and that also was the same era that they had the young jedi knights series uh take place that was the
kevin j anderson rebecca most uh uh books it was like a young adult series of um jason and jana solo

(09:19):
uh as kids in luke's jedi academy and i read uh two volumes of these books and they were fantastic
they were really really good uh so like this is what follows that up so we're going going like
taking a real dark turn to this before we go too far i do want to ask francis one question about the
using vong era and because i heard this somewhere but i don't i don't know if it was true for this or

(09:42):
it was some other thing i heard about i was when the using vong show up from outside the star wars
galaxy yeah they're from outer like the outer um what's it called wasn't one of this beyond yeah
beyond the outer rim the unknown regions the unknown regions yes yes but i heard the story that the
reason why palpatine made the empire is because he sensed that was coming was that part of that or

(10:04):
this is just something else entirely this is ringing a bell in my head yeah because it was like
admittedly i thought that was a really cool storyline if that is i think it is it's either
a really popular theory it might just be a theory this rings a bell when but with the new thrawn books
yeah it's ringing a bell yeah the new thrawn books i think was introducing the idea that um there was

(10:28):
an alien race that the chists were fighting off called the grisks i think it was it was the grisks i
believe it was and uh that's why he wanted thrawn because it was like this connection to the uh the
the workings outside of the the normal area of the galaxy that he was familiar with so he wanted an
advisor in a way that was like kind of able to to aid him in that in that way right that's why he's

(10:52):
like one of the only non-humans that work in the empire um was that he had like it's also just super
competent yeah but he also had something that no one else could offer in that sense and he had like a
connection to this this this place and you know so um that might be what you're thinking of
possibly no i don't think so but okay i i i mean i'm pretty sure it was a user thrown around quite a

(11:14):
bit over the years um because it's a cool idea and i feel like it it adds this like a little bit of
humanity to palptine is it just being evil for the sake of being evil well because i know that like
in some of the earlier um legends books um we're talking about like old republic era
um there was um um there was kind of that prophecy that was like that something from beyond the galaxy

(11:40):
was um coming and um the old jedi thought that it was like the return of the sith and like they kind
of rewrote it so that it was like the sith emperor um but there was always kind of like hints that there
was something beyond him from from beyond the outer rim so i think it's i think that idea just keeps
coming back because it's really interesting um so i think that a similar kind of thing may be

(12:02):
applying here interesting okay yeah i think there's always been theories about palpatine's
like premonitions about you know there's always been something greater than uh than himself that
he's always wanted to defend himself against you know like obviously he was a little shaken i think
when he discovered that the chosen one had been brought into the jedi order and this is the guy
that's supposed to bring balance to the force like what does that mean for a sith lord right

(12:25):
right so like what better way to combat that than to corrupt the guy and make him an asset
right and like that's that's just the way of things and that's that's how he does things so like
um he's a you know he's he's a not a courageous fellow you know he's a he's a fellow he's like
he's a guy that essentially lives in fear so he drenches himself in it you know and it's like um

(12:46):
palpatine yeah i don't know if i ever saw him as fearful i think i think he is a fearful guy i think
like i think that's why a lot of sith lords become sith lords is because they are uh afraid you know
like they're palpatine's whole thing at least in canon is just that he just loves power and just
being evil for the sake of evil that's why i like this kind of this extra this eu storyline yeah i

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mean there's that too um i've i've always looked at him as a guy who was like deep down like deep down
he was afraid you know i think he was he was always afraid of like what could like topple him over
right i would agree with that because a lot of um palpatine's stories are about him
kind of facing his own more mortality and um one of his big motivations and a lot of um and um some

(13:30):
of the sequel books from the like the original trilogy is him um like and then a lot of his
conversation with like darth plagues is him trying to find ways to become immortal and to live forever
because he didn't want to ever be without power or he didn't want to ever have someone who was greater
than him it's also just a classic sith move too though that's true it's true it's like we also

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have what he says like all who gain power are afraid to to lose it right yeah even if any and
he uses it against anakin as a as like even the jedi right but he is he's also he lives by that like
he is also afraid to lose his power you know like he's he is afraid because he also made all those
clones he also made like oh besides just the clone initiative um not like the the clone clones i mean

(14:15):
like the clones of him yeah um and um rise of skywalker clones yeah exactly yeah um there were
a lot of other like projects behind the scenes that he was doing to make big one way or another
for him to come back and to return and to to never die to never lose um the empire that he built yeah
um so i think i think there is an aspect of like fear with um him losing it but i think it is deep down

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just driven by the greed to take it all yeah that too i mean like i i'll frequently like think of the
scene where he encounters yoda and then he says like if so powerful you are why leave you know like
he tries to run in that fight he tried to run you know like that wasn't just an act like it was like
he he didn't want to fight yoda because he's like i'm afraid i'm gonna lose this fight and he barely

(15:03):
won so it was like it's always been like that like he's always been like the guy that's just like
lived in fear of the jedi and that's why he wants to get rid of them all since since we're talking
about that moment i just gotta quickly say the best uh shot is when they're in palpatine's office
and uh i think the force energy rebounds uh it's either that or yeah or he already does a force push

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and that's when palpatine like flips over his chair he has ropes and legs right there just looks so
ridiculous yeah it's the best shot it's so good and like i think it's like it's also up for
kind of speculation as to whether or not he was pretending to be afraid when mace windu disarms
him yeah i always wondered about yeah and that that one's always like don't let him kill me yeah

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yeah right like it's like was he acting was it legit but if it's legit like you know he was really
pleading there and then when he and then when vader finally tosses him down that hole he was like
screaming all the way down yeah so i mean i don't think he's a very courageous guy at all i think
he's a he's he's a very he's an afraid kind of person you know and yet but he isn't he's a guy

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who has so much power and yet you'd think a guy with so much power would be it would would not be
afraid right but it's actually the rebels like it's like the people like and or who are so not afraid
you know like they like face death in the face and just run to it because it's what they believe in
you know they have they have like a something else about it's for a cause it's for a cause right like and

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and he has nothing to fight for like he's just got power he's he's only fighting he's accumulated so
much power yeah exactly so i think now he went from accumulating it to just trying to keep it right
exactly and he lives in fear in that sense and so when i think when it comes to the views on vong i
think there's probably a good support for that theory that you were just talking about when when
it comes to like why did he build the empire in the expanded universe one of those reasons could be

(16:56):
well he's been living in fear of something greater than himself that can you know destroy planets
and and like come in and wipe us out like you know like of course you know yeah he's the kind
of guy that would probably build up an empire to fight that you know um so that he can keep his power
yeah i mean he is also a very like arrogant person yeah i mean like his his lightsabers are made out

(17:17):
of electrum which um only jedi masters are allowed to use and he it's fully made out of that gold material
because he's that cocky with um yeah with his power yeah exactly he just wants to to show it off
is that canon it is actually yeah i think it is yeah yeah his four is so mace windu's um the kind
of like gold at the top of his it's electrum and only masters of like a certain form of um uh of i

(17:42):
think form seven are allowed to use electrum on their sabers um but his were cast entirely out of
electrum cool yeah yeah that's why he's got like he's got two of them look gold yeah yeah yeah so it's
like anyways um okay so the new jedi order was kind of crazy back in the eu you know like
yuzan vong alien race coming in fight the whole galaxy kind of thing chewbacca dies all that sort

(18:03):
of thing um in the new disney canon of course like it's been a bit of a different trajectory with the
stories and uh i guess what we have coming at us from the new jedi we still have clone palpatine yeah
we still got clone palpatine yeah don't remind me uh somehow palpatine returned again no way
from the eu we we've got we've got two movies coming out um there's uh one that's definitely

(18:30):
confirmed that's coming out in two years it's called starfighter uh with ryan gosling and uh
ryan gosling really you didn't know that this is like news back in celebration japan a few
months ago back in april i guess yeah they had them on set and everything like stage so they're
they're shooting i've been busy in fall yeah no kidding production starts this fall in a couple

(18:53):
months like they're the script is green lit ready to go uh it's happening sooner than the ray movie
that they announced a few years ago which is kind of the weird really yeah damn because the ray movie
they keep losing their writer and the things keep shifting on that front so i think that's why they
haven't fully figured that movie out but that that's the other movie that we're going to be getting

(19:13):
that takes place in this time period is the post episode nine ray movie that that eventually we
might see poor daisy ridley yeah done so dirty yeah if you've seen some of her other stuff she's a
fantastic actress oh yeah such great work 100 i think everyone on those sets were just done dirty
100 you don't need to remind me man like uh i totally believe it um so yeah we got two movies

(19:38):
coming out uh yeah i always feel worse for finn but anyway finn yeah oh man yeah so anyway um tv shows
nothing on the forefront of the new jedi order era but um we have had a few books in recent history that
have actually dropped a few hints as to what we can expect you know from this new uh jedi order because

(20:01):
like i think the biggest question that episode nine left us with at the very end was sort of the same
question of how what ray thought of the resistance in episode eight was like how do we rebuild from
this right and she has the lightsaber the broken lightsaber in her house like how do we how do we
come back from this she has the jedi texts yeah she had the jedi texts all that stuff and and uh and

(20:22):
episode nine sort of posed the same question except like the the real question being like how do we
rebuild the jedi from this you know like like ray is now the last jedi like she is she's it uh at that
you think that they'll title it that i think here we go again yeah yeah who knows yeah uh but yeah
she's legitimately probably the last jedi in the galaxy at that point in time and uh and it got me

(20:46):
was at one point right so yeah yeah and then i guess is that still true because ahsoka's around well
technically i don't know she wasn't the last jedi because like ahsoka was around so was um ezra
yeah um and then by extension oh you're talking yeah you're talking about like ot at like
original trilogy era yeah yeah he has kanan yeah but what about like right after like return of the

(21:11):
jedi cal castus um yeah right after the return of the jedi not many i mean like very very few right
like ahsoka being being one of them uh one of the few sabine now technically right yeah ezra
right it's really just what we've seen from the ahsoka series yeah pretty much what we've seen
from the disney plus series i think that's all that's left right i mean there's probably still

(21:32):
like stragglers um on the galaxy that there always seems to be more jets five or 66
it's the last jedi oh wait no there's also that guy and now we're on the last jedi yeah there's
another five guys over there that's already such a huge change from the eu because i'm pretty sure
luke was the only one and he had he had to rebuild it and that's where a lot of like the

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jedi academy games and everything's based off of so there was a book that um well it came to my
attention a few years ago but i hadn't read it until recently and um ironically enough one of the
first guests that um we've ever had on this podcast uh is a shout out to ian in england uh we've had
ian on a number of times for uh book reviews and you know this and that um he frequently also uh

(22:18):
chats on the star boars podcast and uh you know great guy and um he came on as a guest for talking
about a book called force collector and this was back in 2019 when the rise of skywalker was just
about to hit theaters and they did much like the other two movies in the sequel trilogy had a

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literature marketing push with a few things that came out that year before the movie with a subtitle
of journey to star wars and then either the force awakens the last jedi the rise of skywalker etc
right like stuff like that and so um this particular book fits in the rise of skywalker

(22:59):
journey to star wars kind of sub-series that they did along with like two other books that it was a
very small push they'd had like resistance reborn and then there was like another one about uh ray and
finn and poe and stuff like that um and this one was really different though because it didn't take
place between episode eight and nine like the other books did it took it takes place before episode seven

(23:22):
and it's like two years before episode seven when this book takes place and it features characters
that you've never heard of or seen of before and um i always thought like i always wanted to read it
you know because it was like i fascinated me though why would this be relevant like why would this be
relevant to episode nine right and finally i read it and finally i figured it out um so uh this book

(23:42):
is about the protagonist called uh his name's car car nookson but you can just call him car and uh
he is a natural born um uh psychometry uh force sensitive guy so like what that means is like nobody's
taught him how to use the force but uh he gets splitting headaches when he touches something that

(24:06):
might be relevant to someone somewhere and uh he gets like a a vision through the force of to the
memory of that object kind of like how quinlan vos is able to do this in the clone wars cal castus
does it in the video games now ahsoka can do it all of a sudden uh so like uh he has just this ability
to do it and he has no idea what it is he comes from a planet and a family that has told him nothing

(24:29):
about his origins where what like who his relatives are uh nobody even believes it's quinlan's son
nobody nobody even believes that the jedi exist on this planet like he he is of the stage in this
world that he's from that the jedi are a myth maybe they never happened stuff like that right so he goes

(24:50):
on this adventure with a friend of his from school who is this uh like comes from a wealthy family and it
turns out that her dad is actually a officer in the first order uh but apparently not a bad guy
he's just that's they never are yeah who could be a bad guy without being bad guy right so uh his
daughter basically like lets him use like one of their family ships and he goes you know bopping

(25:16):
around the galaxy to different planets with his uh his kind of cobbled together medical droid which
it's basically a protocol droid that that he looks after car whenever he faints from one of these
visions or whatever he also wears gloves that his grandmother made him so that he doesn't touch an
object and you know faint or anything like that um because it happens a lot and uh he starts to use

(25:39):
his ability to try and piece together the past so the whole idea of this book is that he's going around
trying to find old jedi artifacts to recover the memory of the jedi order so that he can piece together in
his mind what actually happened because he believes that the jedi did exist and his and his grandmother
has told him what she is allowed to tell him based on what his parents told her not to tell him and his

(26:04):
parents are basically like stay out of that stuff you don't you know you don't touch it you know you
don't want to know all that kind of stuff so uh we see some really cool moments in this book like
uh uh him finding the staff of the guy from udapau who originally greeted obi-wan kenobi when he gets
to that's so and he like and he rehears that same conversation that you hear in the movie

(26:29):
you know like you know if you have lawyers now is the time like that right like drawn out thing right
they should have done like it was the uh one of those little alien dudes are like gassing up obi-wan's
ship anakin's pod racer the one who gets farted on in the face maybe oh my goodness no yeah like
like little grito yeah yeah yeah uh car also encounters um some familiar character he does

(26:55):
he does have an encounter with uh maz kanada who obviously is um uh supposedly an intimidating
character when you hear that she's a pirate lord and then she feels nothing like it when you meet her
right she feels like everyone's grandmother or something like that yeah um but uh anyway lots
of familiar characters to sort of this um adjacent degree but no direct legacy characters that you

(27:18):
would be familiar with and it keeps it very interesting in that sense because you're you're
basically looking for the first time ever you're looking at sort of this historical perspective of
the jedi story from somebody who knows nothing about it so it's almost like how they approach the
story of harry potter you know it's like you're you're you're this innocent kid who knows nothing
about this world and you're being brought into it for the first time and you're seeing it through

(27:41):
harry's eyes and that's basically hukar for star wars so it was very very cool reading that part of
the book and that's the first like three quarters of the book and then after he discovers enough of his
story or of the story of the jedi he just starts to discover more about himself and he starts to
discover more about his family's legacy and uh this is where it starts to get into his family legacy

(28:04):
like who his grandfather who his great grandfather is and uh basically goes to where this person might
be and everything and uh i like i don't fully want to spoil it for you guys but like this person
was a jedi it is not someone you're gonna have to just talk about it put the spoiler button
all right you've been warned if you plan to read the book skip ahead to the last page

(28:34):
so it is stamp something or other it turns out his great grandfather was a jedi like was what is
yeah was a jedi and has not has not been a jedi for quite some time like he is like obi-wan
given up he's like he's basically how obi-wan was when the purge came but this guy gave up

(28:54):
before the purge this guy gave up before the clone wars like that that's how old this guy and he's
still alive his grandmother's dead but his great grandfather is still alive he's human yeah he's
human i don't know about that i think the force has blessed him with long life he's like a hundred
yeah yeah but uh what's crazy is like he i think that he's like car at this point is now like

(29:18):
a fan boy of the jedi like he's like oh man like well you're not gonna say who it is no i'll say
i'll put the spoiler button well no i i don't like you wouldn't know who he is like i can tell you his
name but it's not building it up yeah yeah yeah but also to be fair like obi i'm pretty sure obi-wan
at some point did say that like some jedi can meditate for like weeks on end without eating any food

(29:40):
yeah because the force sustains them yeah so i mean a jedi master of that caliber that age can just
keep it going yeah also so this guy is like low-key like rogue from the x-men he wears the gloves
doesn't touch anything right it's like yeah totally 100 that's that's kind of the idea i think yeah
um and uh i just so this guy he's not he's not important like like the guy the great grandfather

(30:05):
he's he's not a character that i had ever heard of before he's like high republic or something
he's just like he's just a jedi he just used to be a jedi and he gave up being a jedi
when the republic and the jedi order started to merge with the politics and this was before the
clone wars like he left a long time ago you know so um sounds like you should have been qui-gon's

(30:30):
master yeah like he has one last kind of chat with car before he basically just drops dead like and and
in the in the his own place kind of thing and he like lives in the boonies on some planet that no
one's ever heard of kind of thing right and uh it's kodor he gives
so car car finds uh he finds a packet of jedi robes from the prequel times

(30:55):
he takes the lightsaber of course that this great grandmother's grandfather still had and then they
they blow up the house at the request of um his grandmother who said if you ever go and find your
great grandfather like leave nothing behind if there's anything there and uh and then they then
they go off so okay grandma we'll just nuke great grandpa's house yeah yeah exactly there's there's

(31:17):
like there i'm very much like streamlining it here for you to get the idea of the story but um
basically now there's this guy with this ability and he now knows the full story the full truth of
the empire the betrayal of palpatine and the jedi and everything like that he knows all that stuff
he knows that there were two skywalkers one from one time one from later he knows that one of them

(31:39):
might still be alive which at that point before the force awakens luke is and uh he has a lightsaber
and uh he also has i forget he's got a few other little knickknacks that he's like collected along the
way and now the memories that come with it and uh and i just thought to myself like at the end of
the book he has this moment of realization that he's not meant to become a jedi like he he like

(32:01):
fully knows this he like fully comes to accept this is not my path like i'm not meant to wheel
the lightsaber and you know like take down the bad guys and stuff like that um but he does come to
accept his role of what he realizes he's meant to do and that is to collect it's like and that's why
the book's called force collector and it's like this idea that he is basically the new like jocasta new

(32:26):
basically like this guy he's the new archivist he's the new archivist yeah and he is basically like
been put on a journey i think through the force to like to to to salvage uh what came before so that
they can teach a whole new generation of jedi man it just just dawned on me now so you know in uh
force awakens right at the beginning poe is talking to that guy in the hut but like before the first

(32:49):
order comes down like burns everything right i always felt like the i'm blanking on the guy's name
he's from the family line like the church the church of the forest or something like i thought
this family like created like he's like a descendant of the family that created all the star oh he's
a yeah he's a he's a descendant of the family that that did a lot of star mapping yeah back in

(33:11):
the day like they were like the high republic's version his family's actually in the high republic
stories and that that family was known to the santecas santeca thank you yeah that's how
there's a roundabout way for me to get his name so yeah i always felt like the character that was
santeca should have been a character like you're describing okay someone who like that would have

(33:33):
been that would have been was like a like a force collector had like was wasn't a jedi but had kind
of morally brought your describing through uh basically like archaeology whatever is now become
like wise in this and that's why poe and them yeah we're going to talk to him yeah information right
yeah and like that's why i love the story because it was like it had a lot of things in it that was

(33:54):
like oh man that's so cool like it was just a really good interesting book that was like not
about any main character that actually hinted something as to what's to come you know and it
got me thinking like what does this new era look like for the disney canon like what is it what is it
going to be you know how is it going to be told now that we've seen the outcome of the sequel trilogy

(34:17):
now that we've been able to like take a look at a book like this which kind of hints like you know
like maybe there is somebody that's going to be able to help ray you know piece together uh you know
a new order right the past from based on the past and you know like what what would like raise raise
never worn proper jedi ropes right but like now car has jedi ropes from qui-gon's time so like is it

(34:41):
going to come full circle are we going to get a new jedi order movie that because he's collected
something like this and knows how they should be like is that what it's going to be like is it
going to be actually like kind of a new jedi order like how it how you might expect a jedi order to
look like based on the prequels you know or is it going to be radically different you know we're
going to be like a little shack in the woods kind of thing you know it's a good question it gives them

(35:04):
an excuse to go back to that style yeah it would it would yeah it's a good excuse to roll back the
you know the clock yeah
i mean i feel like what they should do with ray is what like kind of luke's original story was in
the eu like basically radicalizing um the jedi not like not radicalizing but like accepting love and

(35:27):
accepting partners and accepting attachments and like all that and like really balancing um the
jedi's lives that's what i was talking about last episode we gotta bring back mary jade yeah
yeah yeah i feel like ray should do that like
too bad kylo's gone what would you like to see from a new jedi order movie that's like you know

(35:51):
now that we have a few little details of like you know the pieces coming together here um what would
you like to see as far as a villain oh like assuming that we only get one movie right that's why they
brought palpatine back right like like one of them palpatine returned a third time again how does
he keep doing this he made a bigger death star here's another thing to like keep in mind is that

(36:16):
as the star wars stories like evolve and grow and they're running out of room to tell more stories
within the new republic era as well as definitely trying to cram stuff in between episode three and
four is very limited space right and uh you know the main six part george lucas story i mean that's

(36:37):
always been a complete narrative and so like i guess like what disney's trying to do is like they're
using the sequel trilogy as their version of a original trilogy that they're now able to follow
up on with a whole new story that's radically different kind of like how the prequels was very
radically different i think than what people were expecting who had come off the back of return of the

(36:58):
jedi and movies like a new hope and empire strikes back like you know going into a planet like
coruscant and seeing what the jedi temple looked like and everything's all clean yeah everything's
clean the robes are different super dirty the original trilogy and yeah yeah and the lightsabers
are different the the like the designs of ships and everything are so different and the galaxy expands

(37:20):
as those designs kind of fit in to the story later but like jedi are really political right but like
i'm what would you expect now that we know okay this is what the galaxy looks like now we've got
colorful holograms we've got ray who has her limited knowledge of what she does we've got
characters like car who are floating around collecting bits and pieces of lore from the past

(37:41):
uh we've got people like poe and uh finn right who are probably going to be around but finn's now
recently discovered he's got powers and like you know like what does ray's jedi order look like like
and what would you like to like see as a villain if this movie is like the pilot assuming that it's
like a because they haven't announced we're going to do a whole new trilogy you know like they just

(38:02):
said we're going to do one movie like what if this is the transitionary movie to like whatever is
to come after you know i would like something a little different and i've really liked uh i think
it's death troopers the zombie stories zombie stories yeah i think it'd be cool it'd be different it
doesn't have to be the main film for the whole arc but maybe uh for the first movie they could find

(38:24):
like a sith temple maybe like wherever they set up she's setting ray is setting up the new jedi order
kind of like the jedi academy games which is kind of what i feel like it would be like one of them
could stumble across some sith hidden temple thing whatever and accidentally release some virus thing
that becomes a it's like basically like a like a zombie movie i think that's kind of cool yeah they

(38:45):
would like get off planet and it's not something they got to try to contain well i also love the
hive mind aspect of yeah that's really cool project blackwing is an excellent story man it was so good
this is what i really wanted the drink gear to be yeah but they didn't do it right yeah i think
something that would be interesting is kind of what with what ray is doing what you've described with

(39:05):
like um with car um i feel like it would kind of be something kind of like modern archaeology where
um we find a lot of like old artifacts and old bones and our general first impressions are never
quite what they are and it's not till years and like later on when we find more things that piece
together those full puzzles of oh that wasn't a head that was a hip bone this is i don't know a

(39:28):
different kind of dinosaur altogether um i feel like ray and some other people are going to start
finding all of these jedi artifacts and like collecting them and like they'll make that new order but then at the
same time people will start finding like the old sith ones um and i think there's more or less going
to be kind of you're like a sith cult kind of like a south sith cult kind of like it's just like the

(39:52):
knights of rent cultists yeah i was gonna say kind of like indiana jones vibe boy band
knights of rent sucked um i was gonna say like kind of kind of like indiana jones vibe of like trying
like these people trying to like raid old sith temples and there's definitely gonna be someone
trying to like loot vader's old temple and there's like there's such things like um uh what is it the

(40:19):
mask of it starts with an m it's like mondo or something oh yeah it was in the vader comics right
yeah yeah um where like an old sith lord's mask still contained his essence and when vader put it on
like that guy took over his body and vader like saw the vision of him and like moment conversed moment
yes thank you there's a similar mask in the other novel we read with lando really same mask it was the

(40:41):
same one yeah same mask same mask um but i could definitely see someone putting on like the the mask of
moment or like they could use that as like the cult leader thing right yeah because they that's
basically what happened in that lando book it's just they yeah opted before anything came that's a
great idea like like maybe someone with force potential who all of a sudden their abilities
are amplified because that the spirit of that sith lord like takes over yeah and you know that's like

(41:06):
guiding the cult through him right and that would make a good because like my fear is that any worthy
adversary for someone who they ramped her skill level up so fast for ray is that no villain is ever
going to be able to take her on you know so like my fear is like they make a ray movie where
well she's just able to conquer all you know well then the honestly what you have to do is in the

(41:29):
first movie you have to handicap her somehow something has to happen to her or she loses her
potential or i think a good villain for her is not necessarily a person that she can defeat
but like the idea of like this collective this collective of people that want to revive the sith and
like yeah kind of worship their idea like she can't kill a cult without fundamentally killing their

(41:49):
ideals right and no matter how powerful she is she can't kill an idea yeah
yeah yeah no yeah it's true i mean like i uh yeah it's interesting to think about because um you
know i i wonder what people used to think about what episode one was going to be like you know
like when when return the jedi ended and they're like okay how did this all begin you know and it's

(42:11):
a similar structure except we don't know how it ends and and you know it could go on forever but we
don't we don't know how it ends but we know the start of it so like i guess like what is it what kind
of pattern do we have that we're able to kind of anticipate you know what does this world look like
we're gonna get a really fun starfighter movie with ryan gosling and that's gonna have nothing
to do with ray whatsoever but uh unless it does unless it does unless it does um i think like what

(42:36):
my my thought keeps coming back to is uh some of the setup that's been done with ahsoka you know and
characters like balen and shin who are like a million miles away from you talking on the planet
ezra was on yeah on paridia and uh if those characters are not completely resolved in season

(42:58):
two of ahsoka which i assume they will be but if they're not is it possible maybe they can be
brought back as the villains for ray's time period later because that's only like 40 years later right
like i would say at this point they'd have to find something on that planet to make them stronger
villains i mean yeah definitely i mean like they're getting in some pretty crazy stuff with like those

(43:22):
mortis statues like on the ancient witch planet like i mean like this is a like insane level of like
you know deep stuff going on over there you know what i mean like and balen did already keep pace
with ahsoka so you know he is competent he is definitely competent like saber skills his real age uh at least
up until the point that ray stevenson sadly passed away he was uh 58 years old so if we count young

(43:46):
in the star wars universe yeah totally yeah so like if we if we count forward with how many years between
ahsoka and the ray movie takes place i think i would probably rough rough to make that at 40 years
because like it's 29 years between six and seven it's uh like two like two years uh total for episode

(44:09):
seven through nine and then uh and then the ray movie would be maybe like five to to something years
like between five and ten years after episode nine kind of thing so yeah i'd say like maybe like 40 years
because i think they said starfighter takes place like two to five years after episode nine so yeah like

(44:29):
we're thinking like 40 years on top of 58 so it's like 108 years old i think you can do it like
might be stretching it a little bit yeah like unless time passes slower on paridia
yeah maybe uh i don't know i don't know but and then shin i mean she's like you know she's much
younger than balen and she's still on paridia too so if they don't resolve her character arc maybe

(44:52):
she could come back as some sort of weird like you know like anti-jedice like witch lady or something
whatever i mean it wouldn't be the first time that someone's like a magical forest witch lady
right that's true yeah like they literally use them in the series yeah a lot of a lot of potential
there um anyway uh what other stories can you think of that we've kind of been given little cookie

(45:14):
crumbs to give us some hints anyone anyone got any ideas i'm trying to think what i've read in the
sequel trilogy era well this is this is kind of not in that kind of in that stream but i mean in the
asoga series we saw like the magic of dathomir um but it kind of went nowhere um but i feel like
um that could also be something um they could use in the future oh yeah maybe maybe ray has to conquer

(45:38):
the night sisters like they're coming back or something right like yeah those three ladies must
have been there for hundreds of years if not thousands you know and they have zombie slaves
so we all win yeah unless there's a lot more of them that we don't know about maybe we were only
shown three but maybe there's a lot more somewhere else that maybe they they're yeah because yeah

(45:58):
they kind of treated that whole organization of people as a um uh like they they they came and
settled in into dathomir and like they they weren't originally from around here so to speak right
like it seemed like yeah yeah so you know maybe maybe there's pockets of them kind of elsewhere and
you know it might be this growing threat of like sorcery you know coming in to conquer the galaxy

(46:22):
or something like that right like we know there's at least one on endor oh a witch on endor oh yeah
well you thought ewok adventures that's right nice what yeah she's dead you never watched ewok
adventures no they were like straight to vhs release star wars movies or the tv specials i think
they're straight to vhs um i think one or i think one of them got it uh maybe they had a very small

(46:45):
no i think they were yeah they're direct tv i think is there a night sister in ewok adventures
she was like the original pre-proto night sister kind of like how boba fett was like the proto
stormtrooper so there was like a character in one of those ewok movies that was like a
shape-shifting she could turn into a crow with a magic ring and interesting otherwise she didn't

(47:07):
really do anything like she was just like an advisor but but she was she was kind of like a spy that
had some magical transforming powers you know but in the eu they kind of retroactively made
her a night sister because it's the only thing that would have made sense once the later stories
were you know told it's like okay where does this character kind of fit like a magic ring that turns

(47:28):
you into a crow like so people just call her a night sister because it makes sense okay even though
it doesn't really make sense like why would you turn into a crow i mean like you know of all things
i like crows that are clever and like shiny things
oh geez okay well uh anyway that's uh that's my that's the spiel for today uh trying to think if

(47:52):
there's any characters that would be in the resistance show the resistance yeah yeah yeah
yeah the resistance anime series kaz kaz it'd be cool kaz could show up could be a neat to see
yeah see like that's the thing is like i feel like between episode eight and nine it was like
so much shitty woman in that like a woman who's like collecting like sith artifacts is there really

(48:15):
i totally forget about yeah there is because they it's one it's on the i guess there's only two seasons
so it's the second season dude my thing might come true yeah maybe there's a jedi collector and
there's a south collector yeah it's true yeah there you go yeah you could try to look her up if you
want because man i haven't watched that show in a long time star wars resistance i was gonna watch

(48:36):
resistance but it's good if you like early 2000s like really animatic cartoons like with the early
3d cartoons from like 2003 like from like teletune like 16 like that kind of yeah yeah exactly
okay that just dates me
you me both man that old hot wheels show oh no the old hot wheels show it wasn't hot wheels it was uh i

(49:02):
think it was matchbox the hot wheels competitor no there was a really good hot wheels cartoon too
there's a couple like really cool movies okay so the planet you're thinking of is uh ashes re
a forested planet located on the outer rim uh its sole inhabited outpost was situated next to a jedi
temple that had been built to seal the power of a sith temple beneath it during the first order

(49:27):
resistance war traveler mika gray came to ashes re seeking a relic hidden in the sith temple intending
to keep it out of the first order's hands but became trapped inside the temple as a result until she was
found and released by the colossus resistance members kaz cb-23 ila kel for two days later
um and uh in the picture uh she's holding up like this triangular holocron of course yeah

(49:55):
so it's always holocron this person's her name is that yeah mika gray so mika gray it sounds like
she maybe isn't collecting sith artifacts per se but she found one she's a fearless fearless inventive
um old treasure hunter of sorts whose aim is less about riches and more about keeping destructive and
powerful artifacts out of the hands of the first order supreme libra kylo ren indiana jones after

(50:19):
one particular two and a half year search the planet hopping archaeologist far away from you
sith relic yeah so uh but she destroys it to shake the first order operatives off her tail this might
be why she prefers to work alone so she she looks like a villain but she's actually kind of yeah she
that's why i remember her looking kind of dodgy that's why i assumed she was villainous yeah no she's

(50:41):
actually uh kind of a hero can i say it is kind of ridiculous that like in the modern era of star
wars that a lot of people don't think that the jedi were real yeah yeah and and like i think that's
kind of like it's one of those things that the clone wars as big as it was it didn't reach everywhere
i guess right and some of those worlds because there's a lot of worlds and and if you look at the

(51:04):
sequel trilogy story it's weirdly mostly in the outer rim like like the the entire war between
the first order and the resistance is like kind of strangely just out in the outer rim area no that
kind of makes sense to me because then the inner mid rim they're just propagandized which is what
palpatine is kind of doing right yeah yeah and i wish they they just i i hope at some point they

(51:30):
clarify just what's happening elsewhere in the galaxy like while most of the stuff's going on because we
have a kind of a very like simple rough idea but it's still not very clear at times like what exactly is
going on at coruscant like at this time you know like during the last jedi like what are what's some
schmuck doing you know on the at the uh the big you know pavilion that we see in andor outside the

(51:52):
senate building you know like do you wish they had actually blown up coruscant instead of that
villain planet see on the one hand like i think it would have been interesting more interesting story
choice yeah but on the other hand like it would have only made sense not to if they planned to use
coruscant again and i think they wanted like maybe they wanted to leave that door open to use it again

(52:13):
so like there's a there's another theory like what if the new jedi order era goes back to
coruscant to to try and resurrect the order within the actual jedi temple speaking of the jedi temple
and coruscant can i say it's also ridiculous that they keep building jedi temples on top of sith
temples and they get surprised that they yeah they do every time it's like guys there is clearly a

(52:35):
formula you're following that is going wrong every time yeah why do you keep doing this yeah insanity
weird yeah um that's the case on coruscant as well isn't it yeah it is yeah yeah yeah there was going
to be a clone wars arc about that and then um and then and then well then the shirt was canceled yeah
so where's dave when you need him yeah i don't know fill in the blanks exactly uh all right um

(53:01):
i think we've reached our time for this subject but um uh i i came across one small little thing just
to close us off here uh one small little thing earlier today it was uh some released images from
the upcoming shows that we have to look forward to uh like the darth maul one yeah one of them is and
that's because if you didn't know uh san diego comic-con is happening right now so we had uh

(53:25):
the first look at darth maul from darth maul uh shadow lord it looks exactly like he's from rebels i
think they actually very close it's like it's a little more detailed i feel like it's the model
from rebels but they're using the textures from clone wars yeah they kind of found a nice happy medium
in there which is which is good so yeah so we got first look at maul uh in the shadow lord

(53:46):
snatched waist oh yeah right yeah he got new robot legs much more fit and sleek yeah maul's been
doing them robot squats aerobics every morning we also got a good look at ezra bridger from ahsoka
season two uh he is wearing uh what looks to be like a new republic jacket of some kind certainly

(54:11):
looks like ezra that's for sure well it's it's because it is no but i mean like the animated ezra
who's this guy that looks like ezra yeah
i just mean it's very well casted and they
did his hair and his costume just like uh uh amon

(54:32):
hey he kind of looks like that guy that uh what's his name that that
star wars guy yeah yeah yeah what the heck looks like someone from peridia they should
have hired that guy to play ezra instead of whatever guy played him in season one
so many to read castings uh this is a soka show
well they've already requested it well they've sadly had to recast one so you know yeah

(54:57):
um joke big big moment in uh season two i wonder i do wonder how that's going to make the season two
feel i'm kind of worried about it i mean i i like i do like this actor remember game of thrones
but it's going to be weird it is going to be weird i mean i thought it was extra weird that
they recasted bail organa for andor but um yeah yeah that was a weird one i don't know i've i'm

(55:19):
i'm unsure about it you know are you gonna fix it with ai face replacement oh dude somebody already
has and it was so bad somebody did like somebody did it like a six hour job and it was like dude like
at that point i'd rather the guy who just got recasted you know it'd be funny if they replaced
it with the 3d version from rebels just right just an animated guy live action it's just a 2d guy

(55:49):
that's so good all right uh well thank you both for popping on as usual thanks francis for
coming by and lending your xp thanks from the uh yeah well just name one one thing real quick what
if if you could keep anything from the eu new jedi order sort of era what would it be
oh um death talent yeah yeah is she from new jedi order i think for sure yeah all right sure even

(56:20):
if she's not whatever let's just throw it in there i think she is showing up in uh the shadow lord
animated show yeah it might be you might be on to something maybe it's gonna come full circle maybe
what they would have done for episode 7 8 9 with georgia story they're gonna do for the ray movie
just because they they found the ins and outs of resurrecting mall bringing back talent doing it in

(56:43):
the animated show instead of the sequels because obviously they went with a different story and now
they're gonna do it all over again in another trilogy of movies how crazy would that be
come full circle and then george just comes in yeah i was um i was right not long i was right i
shouldn't listen my story is the best should listen in the beginning yeah i'm a bastard all right

(57:06):
metachlorians
we're gonna shrink down to the size of metachlorians i'm gonna go in the bloodstream
it's episode nine yeah they just don't listen
get it for fast all right we'll catch you guys later oh no we're in some bubbles bloodstream what
are we gonna do

(57:33):
all right may the force be with you all and we'll see you in the next episode of star wars escape pod
stay tuned for those cantina banters

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