State of Star Wars Books & Ratings | Vaders "True Father" Article Debate - Star Wars Escape Pod

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Time to abandon ship!

(00:05):
Oh no!
Here we go!
Can I persuade you to join us for a drink?
It's a tradition.
Here, here.
Jar Jar, homie, my main man, quickly.
Before the separatists attack, get into the escape pod.

(00:28):
Hey!
This is escape!
Then where the pod?
This is escape!
The pod!
Welcome back to Star Wars Escape Pod and another bantering episode
here with your favorite co-hosts and guests

(00:50):
and everyone here at Star Wars Escape Pod that you might like.
So we got Blake and possibly Darian popping in the show as well
and as you know, I mean, you probably guessed it from the title already.
We're going to be talking about some Star Wars books
and not just any particular book.
We're going to be talking about the last five years
just the strategy, the elements involved in making a multimedia universe like Star Wars

(01:17):
and so many other things.
The success of some of the projects that have come out of such strategies,
the public opinions on some of these books as well as general rankings
of some of the stuff that came prior.
So much stuff packed in.
So let's get the ball rolling here, shall we?
Another happy landing.

(01:53):
Another happy landing.
All right.
Now it's very, very rare that we start a show off with the main theme, but I feel like...

(02:18):
I don't know.
Have we ever?
Or has it been like years?
Dude, I don't know what it is about the main theme, but it always gives me so much joy
when I hear it, you know?
Yeah, it's like the adventure is about to begin.
Yeah.
And I feel like, you know, okay, can you believe it's been five years since...
Why is this not our alarm?
Let's just start the day right, you know?

(02:39):
That's a good point.
Okay.
Just imagine yourself sleeping, right?
Okay.
Right.
And then...
Woo!
Man, I've never been a morning person, but maybe I can be.
Hell yeah!
Time for eggs and bacon, yo!
That's right.
Yeah!
Pancakes!
Well, I feel like it's probably closer to a new hope because all of this is like super

(03:04):
like fancy and exciting music and then it, you know, pans into life and you just Luke
on a farm harvesting water.
He's kind of like go back to reality.
Yeah.
Gotta have those waffles.
All right.
So we have...
Well, it's just us for now, but we have some big stuff to chat about.

(03:29):
And it's more just like a chill kind of week.
And, you know, we did one of these, well, a bit more sort of unscripted, chill chat last
week with Bryce.
So if anyone hasn't caught up with that, that was a fun chat, you know, catching up with
Bryce because it's been a little while since we've had him on the show.
Yeah, it's been a while since we had him on.
So it's nice just to hang out and kind of catch up.

(03:52):
Yeah.
It's always a good conversation, you know?
Yeah, for sure.
And like, you know, that's one of the reasons that we started a Star Wars podcast, right?
Yeah.
To be honest, I kind of thought we'd do it more.
Yeah.
Instead of...
There's just been so much coming out all the time.
We haven't had just chill episodes.
You know, it's been a blessed thing in a way because like we don't need to really plan
anything.
Like we always just, you know, we hit the ground running with whatever's current and

(04:17):
whatever's happening, whatever's coming out.
And, you know, we've been lucky to have so much stuff come out on Disney Plus and this
and that.
It's weird though.
There's been so much so quickly that drastically cut down on my rewatch ability of stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, you know, at least for me, like it's easy to forget, you know, why or at least what
started this, you know, it's just like just the interest in having an unplanned conversation

(04:41):
about Star Wars.
And it can be a little nerve wracking sitting down doing a podcast about nothing.
But, you know, Seinfeld did it for 10 years.
And they're all very wealthy now.
Yeah.
Especially Jerry.
Heck, why not us?
But, you know, it's not to say that we shouldn't go in with a bit of a inkling as to kind of

(05:03):
how we'd construct the conversation.
For the record, we have a conversation to talk about.
We're not just doing this on the fly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
But it just it does.
It did make me wonder.
But anyway, we're going to be doing a few more of those, I think, in the coming weeks
because we were chatting about it on a on a chat.
And I think we're on like fan.
Yeah.
Hang out.

(05:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we'll see how it goes, you know, and it's not going to have in crazy amounts of
editing or anything like that.
We're going to give it a series name just to kind of keep it, you know, semi aware for
people just to say, oh, I like this.
This is the format that they're going with for this episode or that episode or whatever.
So I think we're going to call it like cantina chatter or cantina chat.
Something like that.
Yeah.

(05:45):
Something like that.
You had pitched earlier.
I think we'll do some of those, you know, in the coming weeks.
And as as we go forward through the summer and summer this summer, you know, it's like,
you know, I don't think anyone wants to sit down and plan anything super hardcore or anything
until visions volume three comes out when we'll, you know, do some after show for that.
And then and then, you know, nothing really comes out after that again.

(06:07):
So for the rest of the year, I think, you know, we're going to see how this goes.
We'll just take it slow.
Take it easy.
Intermittently.
We do have some planned stuff.
So it's kind of.
Yeah.
Keep an eye on the titles for which ones.
If you enjoy specific conversations, if you like this new alternate kind of format,
let us know.
Yeah.

(06:28):
And and if you haven't subscribed to Star Wars Launchpad, definitely go and and check that
out because Launchpad has been interesting.
It's been sort of an experiment, to be honest, like see to just to see how how generative
AI can come up with a conversation.
And, you know, people might roll.
Even I do it like I like any time I hear the word, the two letter word, I'm like, like roll

(06:51):
my eyes, you know.
But but it's been fascinating to see the technology advance.
And, you know, there's no escaping it.
So the first eight episodes more or less are sort of newsworthy type episodes where they've
been recapping some sort of articles from Star Wars dot com or other official sources.
But the last two episodes, I've kind of tried something different.

(07:13):
The ninth episode of Launchpad, I did a deep dive book review of the book that we had a podcast
about here on Star Wars Escape Pod about the reign of the Empire of the Mask of Fear.
So we did one here and then I had the A.I. one do one as well.
So it was kind of interesting to see how their conversation was constructed versus like what

(07:34):
the things that we talked about here.
So, you know, if anyone's curious being a big contrast.
Yeah. Like it was just I don't know.
It's just interesting.
And, you know, they sometimes it does have a very surprising outcome with the things that it can come up with.
Like things to talk about, because I'm literally giving it the book, you know, to say, like, OK, read this book, the entire thing and then come up with a conversation.

(07:58):
So that's what it's doing.
And, you know, we're doing the same thing over here, except we're people.
So and then for the Bad Batch Grand Overview, that was episode 10 that just came out on the 20th of June.
That one was like just I had a massive like deep research sort of thing for the entire three season show of the Bad Batch.
And I just plugged that in and just said, come up with a conversation, a chat about this show as an overview and just sort of make a conversation out of the events that happen in this show.

(08:25):
So any Bad Batch fans out there might actually really enjoy the deep dive between Clone Wars and A New Hope, focusing on the Bad Batch events.
And that was in Launchpad as well.
And I think in a year from now, we just also recently talked about this.
We'll maybe do another sit down and do a rewatch of the Bad Batch.
Yeah, we've been talking about that.
Yeah, because I think next year it'll be five years.

(08:46):
That's crazy.
From when the first season came out.
Yeah.
Yeah. Pretty crazy.
Man, I still feel like Rebels is new.
I know, right?
It's kind of nuts.
All right.
So but our focus today is is going to be.
Oh, actually, first, before we get into it, I just I just noticed our friend Darian has just dropped in.
So let's open the blast doors.

(09:08):
We want to hit the button over there.
Hit the button to the door.
Yeah.
Okay.
There we go.
Thank you, Blake.
What did I do?
Yeah.
You hit the button to open the door.
Oh, you're welcome.
All right.
Looking around for something.
Yeah.
All right.
Welcome back to the show, Darian.
Thank you very much.
Chut-chut.
Chut-chut.
Chut-chut, sir.

(09:29):
Well, we have.
Oh, before I wrap up the the sort of the news and headlines for the week,
I also just want to say we had a special guest on a few years ago.
Not even a few years ago.
It was like, well, OK, it was maybe like two years ago.
His name is Jason.
Jason Eaton.
He came on to talk about a model that he'd built for Lucasfilm for specifically for StarWars.com

(09:53):
and for their YouTube channel to do a highlight on what was it called?
The big space station.
Like lights beacon or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Starlight.
Starlight.
Yeah.
The High Republic space station from phase one.
Right.
So Jason Eaton.
Very talented guy.
He was recently featured on Adam Savage's tested YouTube channel.

(10:14):
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
So, yeah, he was featured on there for a recreation of the classic Rebel transport ship
that he like made from, you know, model kits and everything like that.
But reference material on how to make this thing is like incredibly scarce.
So he had to do a ton of research.
That's like the big bubble thing with the canisters underneath.
Yes, exactly.

(10:35):
Yeah.
So, so much lost detail.
Like, you know, it has to like, hey, what was in that crevice and what was in this crevice?
Oh, man.
That thing is crazy.
So, yeah.
There's so much detail on those two.
Dude, it took him years.
It took him like two years to make this thing.
It was crazy.
I believe it, man.
So, go and check that out.
Did he kit bash it or 3D print?
It's a combination of two things.
Yeah.
A combination of modeling plus kits and, you know, and, you know, you should just like watch

(10:59):
the video, listen to him talk about it.
It's a, it always blows me away.
People who do this craft because like, so cool.
It's crazy.
Right.
So, yeah, go and check that out.
He had the rebel transport.
He also did some, so one of his own creations, which is like this Imperial tank thing.
He also had another official vehicle, which I'm totally blanking on what it was, but he

(11:21):
had like three or four miniatures that he had, or, you know, models that he was featured
for.
And one was the rebel transport, but, uh, definitely go and check that out.
Also orbit key giveaway is over.
So congrats again.
Uh, as we mentioned last week to, uh, to our winners that, that did win, uh, for, for
one of the names, sadly, we did have to do a redraw cause that person still has not replied.

(11:43):
Um, but, uh, we're hoping that, uh, orbit key does end up sending you all tracking info
and get that stuff shipped out to you as soon as possible.
Um, yeah, uh, that's, uh, out of our hands now.
And we want to thank everyone for, uh, following us on blue sky, Twitter, uh, or X or whatever
you want to call it YouTube, you know, entering your, in the giveaway and, and, uh, and, you

(12:04):
know, getting in touch with us.
So that was, and thank you to over key for reaching out to let us, uh, spread some cool
star Wars stuff to the fan base.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So thank you again to them.
Um, all right.
So the meat and potatoes today is, uh, the state of star Wars books and just the industry,
how it's been for the last five years.

(12:26):
Uh, you know, what we're looking at is like a very rich, a library of, of very different
strategically driven content that, uh, we have not seen in, in a long time, uh, probably
since the nineties with the multimedia project and everything like that.
And, and now here we are with the higher public being probably one of the biggest ones they've
ever done.
Yeah.

(12:47):
And the fact that it, I guess, barring the acolyte was just like exclusively literary.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, uh, you know, I'll start off with something light here before we dive deep.
Um, Darian, was it, what's some of the last, what's some of the, the most impressive star
Wars books you've read in the last five years?
Uh, ideally books that have been published in the last five years, but if not, then maybe just,

(13:08):
you know, let us know what year it was published.
I have not enjoyed the last five years of books and I, I'm trying not to be a downer,
but I just, every time I've tried jumping into something that's been written recently,
I just have not enjoyed it.
All right.
I mean, that's fair.
Okay.
Well then what was the last great thing that you read?
Yeah.
What's the last one you enjoyed?

(13:29):
He's like, ah, it was like 1980.
There was this book.
It was the empire strikes back novelization.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I read that.
Thrawn trilogy.
I read that Darth Maul one recently.
The one where, um, and I ended up getting the audio book where the guy who does Darth Maul
in Clone Wars.
Oh, Sam Witwer.

(13:50):
Narrated.
That's cool.
Yeah.
That was the last one.
Wow.
So you, you read.
That one was really great.
Was it, uh, was it the, uh, what's it called?
It was like the, the one on the cover where he's like in a bunch of chains.
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm totally blanking on the title of that.
Is that a new one that's come out very recently?
I think it was like 2012 or something when that came out.

(14:12):
Oh wow.
Okay.
Now that's a while back.
Was that still under the Canon Disney banner then?
No, that was before.
Just before.
It was just before.
Yeah.
Shadow Hunter.
Oh, Shadow Hunter.
I'm thinking of Lockdown.
That's the one by Joe Scriber Lockdown.
Is your, your, your, uh, Shadow Hunter you say?
Yeah.
Okay.
I just found the cover.
So.
Oh yeah.

(14:33):
That one was recently republished as a essential legends book.
This is a really old one.
This came out, uh, 2001, uh, just a year after the, or two years after the Phantom Menace.
Uh, so that's cool.
Okay.
Cool.
Yeah.
And they just republished it within the last few months.
Yeah.
They, they republished it as a, as, as an, so it recently did the Disney umbrella as
you know, new books go, um, they, they get canonized, right?

(14:54):
Like within the Canada, any of the old books that happened before Disney, uh, they're being
printed with a gold label called the essential legends collection.
Now there is definitely, there's still, I thought you should just say legends.
Uh, it does it.
Well, the, the banner officially is legends, but, um, and some of them do still have the
legends, the gold legends banner.
But now what they're doing is they've created a new reprint of even those ones and they're

(15:20):
calling them the essential legends collection.
And in a way to sell the book again, they've given it all new, all new.
Yeah.
Third time they've given all new artwork on the cover.
So they've been hiring artists to make new covers for these things.
And then they're all getting printed with the same unified.
Are they stealing the idea that like they do for comics?
So they just release a bunch of different covers.
Yeah.

(15:41):
Someone has to buy like three versions.
Yeah.
That's exactly what they're doing.
So this is a bit, they're basically, they're basically slowly going through the catalog of
legend stuff and, and like publishing, you know, three at a time.
Yeah.
And, and that way, if somebody did want to buy all the old stuff, like they can essentially
have this very nice looking.
Yeah.
They're going after the OCD people that needed all the look like the same.

(16:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally.
So, um, anyway, that's, uh, yeah, you can buy this one for, uh, yeah.
Are they at least releasing your hardcovers?
Like you get another chance to get a hardcover version?
No, I think, I think these are all paperback, paperback prints.
Yeah.
So that's at least the cool part of it being re-released.
You can get the hard, hardcover version.
Yeah.

(16:23):
I think, I think it, uh, yeah.
So I think all of the republishings, the legends and the, um, essential legends, uh,
have all had, uh, just like paperback, uh, reprints, um, with a few sort of set aside
being in like a rare, uh, case of being reprinted without that, you know, format and that look.

(16:44):
And, and usually it's like a different, different publisher altogether and, and stuff like that.
So, you know, the really, the really special ones, I think.
But, uh, anyways, um, I guess I should, I realized just now, before we get too deep into it, I
should share when I first pitched the idea of doing an episode on this, it's because I
was at a bookstore.
I think it was Kohl's.
Oh yeah.

(17:05):
And I was trying to find the sci-fi section for star Wars.
Yeah.
And they didn't have a single star Wars book in the whole store.
And that made me, got me wondering, like, is this just maybe with so much stuff coming
out, people just got fatigued or whatever.
And there just hasn't, I was wondering if the sales are really down.
So like bookstores are pulling back.
Yeah.
I'm wondering to pitch this idea in the first place.
Right.
I know that during phase two of the old Republic or the high Republic, it was the all time

(17:31):
lowest sales of star Wars books.
So I think a lot of stores started panicking.
Hmm.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So in my opinion, uh, at least when it comes to the higher public stuff, I think it was
a really bad idea to, to do the higher public in the order that they did, which was phase

(17:52):
one being the beginning of the, at least what we thought was the era phase two came around
and it was actually a prequel era to phase one.
Phase one.
So phase one of the higher public was say like three to 400 years before Phantom Menace.
Mm hmm.
Phase two was like five to 600 years before Phantom Menace.
And then phase three was the conclusion to the, to the story that phase one was telling

(18:15):
you.
That is very confusing.
Yeah.
So they did it basically in the order of how the star Wars trilogies were done.
And I think that's always very messed up.
Like if somebody does that intentionally, like it's like, okay, the movies were not intentionally
done to be watched in that order.
Like it was, you know, done from like a technology point of view.
Yeah.
Right.

(18:36):
But it's like, if you have the ability to tell a story chronologically, you know, please
do it because it never, it never turns out as good.
You know, when you tell a story out of order, you know, we also witnessed this with the acolyte
as well, you know, with two flashback episodes, like just in my own opinion, I think it's always
a worse idea to do it like that.
The flashback episodes depend on the story.

(18:57):
Sometimes that you can even reveal that way, but I wouldn't do like a whole, the way that
like that many books and stuff trying to do that with such large numbers of things being
released is very confusing.
Yeah.
And I think, I think they, they, they sort of set themselves up for failure of like in
doing that.
It just made it very confusing to follow the story, especially when you have a multimedia

(19:18):
project like the higher public, which spans across, uh, adult novels, young adult novels
and junior novels as well as comic books.
And that's two comic book publishers being Marvel and dark horse.
Right.
So there's like five different avenues plus a sixth being, they made a few audio exclusive
stories that were only like just for audio book listeners.

(19:41):
The one we listened to of that was pretty good though.
Yeah, it was.
Yeah.
And then the seventh way is also in the star was insider magazines.
They do publish short stories, which, uh, one comes out with every single insider.
And ever since the Disney era, those have also been Canon, um, which during the higher
public multimedia project, a lot of those short stories were higher public short stories.

(20:02):
So, uh, there's like seven ways to catch all of this media.
And that doesn't include the acolyte TV show or Jedi survivor, the video game or the tales
from the galaxy's edge VR video game that also had a flash, you know, like sort of segment
of the higher public in there.
Uh, there's so many ways, you know, to catch this era and it's just like, okay, please tell

(20:23):
it in order.
It was spread out.
And the other thing that was cool at the beginning, but it quickly became hard to manage
and keep up with is the fact that these stories did overlap quite a lot.
Yeah.
And so if you're not following everything, then you're missing stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Um, okay.

(20:44):
Well, uh, that's, yeah.
So your story inspired, yeah, you're, you're, you're being in a bookstore, not seeing any
Star Wars stuff on the shelves.
That's, I've never been to a bookstore and they didn't have a single Star Wars book.
Same here.
Same here.
That's a bit of a shocker.
I kept wandering around the store, like looking different areas and like go back and like,
it should be right here.
Right.
The way their system is.
And there was nothing.
And you're pretty convinced that it's not because people bought all the stuff.

(21:08):
Well, especially now where everything's online retailers, like stuff in store, you're
just going to have that.
Yeah.
People are buying a lot of.
I mean, I think it has a lot to do with what Darian said.
Like the last five years have not been stellar, you know, for the, for the Star Wars book,
uh, field.
And, uh, you know, that might have a lot to do with it.
Um, if we're looking at the five years before, and I just want to recap sort of the five

(21:30):
years before the higher public stuff, because that was basically when Disney took off with
this whole canonicity of new books coming out, there was a lot less of it in those five
years, uh, which sort of bridged between force awakens and the rise of Skywalker.
It was still a lot.
I know I couldn't keep up.
There was a lot because there was, uh, there was the comic books, junior novels, young adults

(21:52):
and adult novels, right?
Um, somebody on Goodreads ranked most of them.
This isn't all of them, but I would say this is most of like the, the Del Rey sort of adult
stuff.
And the, their top three, sorry, I'll, I'll, I'll do the top six picks.
The top six picks were, uh, the first Thrawn Timothy Zahn book, the Ahsoka book, Lost Stars,

(22:14):
Master and Apprentice, Bloodline and Resistance Reborn.
Um, I've read all of those except for Master and Apprentice.
I started reading that and then I had to put it down for some reason, but it was really
good.
And then I just forgot to pick it back up and I still have to reread it.
I thought we both read that one.
No, we didn't.
Yeah.
Well, if you did, then I didn't finish it.
I need to read it.
Um, so that's just a taste of kind of the first six on that list.

(22:38):
And, uh, you know, you can find it by going to Goodreads and you know, um, you know, you
can find rankings for these things.
But, um, in short, like the worst two on this list, 33 and 35, 34 is missing.
Okay.
Well, 33 and 34, uh, are the two Battlefront books, uh, Twilight Company.
That was such a slog.
I didn't even bother with the second one.
That first one was rough.
Yeah.

(22:59):
That was the first Star Wars book that we were trying to review that I think I didn't
finish.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was.
Darian, did you read anything in those five years between, um, like 20, uh, 2015 and 2020
or 2014, 2019 kind of thing.
Yeah.
I read aftermath and infernal squad or at least half of infernal squad.
It wasn't bad, but it didn't grab me either.

(23:22):
And I just realized that I read, uh, the new Jedi book, uh, battle scars, Jedi.
That one was pretty good.
Oh, okay.
It was weird to have a first trap Star Wars book though.
Yeah.
Was that Luke with his shirt off or.
Yeah.
I was the, uh, the, the, it was like the, uh, what was it?
Marin and, and Cal, right?

(23:43):
No, it wasn't.
Well, it was Marin and the, the chick that was trying to be a storm trooper.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
That was all very, um, that was all very confusing.
I remember, uh, I remember not because I'd played the game.
I think, I think I played the game before I read that or maybe vice versa.
But anyway, to me, it just didn't really fit the story.
At least that I was experiencing in the game.

(24:05):
If that makes sense.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, I remember to be fair.
Yeah.
It was supposed to run games.
It's that it always feels like kind of irrelevant.
Yeah.
It was supposed to bridge the gap between the games where it was, it was kind of setting
you up for the second game.
But honestly, I don't think that story, like, even though I enjoyed it, it really didn't
need to exist.
Right.
Yeah.

(24:26):
Yeah.
No.
And I feel like it didn't do a good enough job bridging the gap to really need to exist
as a book.
I don't know.
Yeah.
No, if anything, when I got in, when I got into the second game, the book actually confused
me more cause it was like, Oh, so a lot more happened in a lot less time.
Yeah.
Would have required like a big swing.

(24:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like it's almost like the, the stories, the people building the story over at EA or respawn
or whoever's doing the story, uh, didn't exactly communicate with the author who was
writing the book.
Probably worried about leaks.
Yeah.
Maybe.
I don't know.
It was just like, there's issue with that around toys and stuff too.
Toys come out for a movie that the thing is no longer in the movie or the colors are

(25:11):
wrong.
Yeah.
It was like, they're on secrecy, right?
You don't want anything getting out and then it kind of backfires on secondary things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's kind of unfortunate, but all right.
Um, so I like, we have, we have a huge long list of, uh, of stuff here, but I'm just
going to read the, a paragraph of, of text here.
And, uh, you know, it, hopefully it kind of sets us up for, for the next little segment

(25:34):
of our conversation.
So, uh, we have a whole report generated over the last five years of Star Wars books.
Uh, this report offers a comprehensive inventory of every Star Wars book published since January
1st, 2019, marking a significant era in the franchise's literary evolution.
The year 2019 is widely recognized as the inception of the modern canon period in Star Wars publishing.

(25:57):
Uh, seeing as it is the last five years, we're talking about a more recent kind of modern era.
Um, characterized by a more cohesive and strategically organized release schedule across diverse formats.
This shift represents a deliberate progression from earlier, more experimental phases of the Disney canon, which was, uh, 2014 through 2018, which
initially focused on establishing a new narrative foundation.

(26:20):
The transition to this modern approach indicates a mature and coordinated publishing strategy, actively building interconnected narratives across various media,
including novels, comics, and audio dramas.
This integrated approach serves to maximize fan engagement and expand the universe in a structured manner, reflecting a sophisticated understanding of how to cultivate and sustain a vast multimedia franchise.

(26:43):
The diversification of product offerings encompassing long form trilogies and audio productions also demonstrates a conscious effort to cater to different segments of the Star Wars fan base,
thereby broadening market appeal and deepening immersion for a wide array of consumer preferences.
Now I'm glad I brought this up because, um, you know, looking at 2014 through 2018, the Disney canon, I think we talked about this at one point.

(27:08):
A lot of the books other than the aftermath trilogy and maybe the alphabet squadron trilogy, a lot of the books are kind of staple single novels.
They are. Yeah.
And they were kind of shotgunned all around the timeline as well.
Yeah.
And, uh, and other than random character miniseries that they did through Marvel and they, they still do a lot of those, but they're, they were doing more of them.

(27:31):
Uh, there was really only two ongoing series, which was the main Star Wars series that bridged a new hope to empire.
And then there was the Darth Vader series, which lasted 30 something or 40 issues, uh, that bridged, um, uh, a new hope to empire as well.
And, and those would overlap.
And eventually coming off of that, we would get the ongoing Dr. Aphra series.

(27:54):
Right.
And, uh, she became a fan favorite.
Yeah.
She became a fan favorite.
And then from that, we also had like, you know, smaller kind of things developed around that, that time period.
And then, and then that success kind of graduated to other things, you know, between episode five and six, they also did some Vader series after right after episode three.
Um, and, uh, now we're in the post episode six era, um, literally a new era for the new Republic.

(28:20):
Um, as they've been telling, um, you know, all these ongoing series, uh, after this big, huge battle at Endor leading up to the battle of Jakku and going onwards.
That was before, okay.
Because I know there's the aftermath trilogy, which takes place over that.
Like this is pre immediate after return.
Yeah.
But in that era.
Yeah, I know.
And it's kind of weird, you know, me saying this basically in short, they've kind of come full circle.

(28:43):
Because it's the first book they put out or close to.
Yeah.
One of the first main books that they put out was aftermath from Chuck Wendig.
And now they're really going back to that time period again and telling new stories across the Marvel publishing units, you know, with that time period.
Right.
And, and, uh, kind of approaching that space within Disney plus that they've crammed all these stories in like Mandalorian and skeleton crew and Ahsoka and all that.

(29:09):
Um, so yeah.
So that's what really separates the first five years from the, the modern five years, which is mostly people will remember the last five years to be mostly high Republic material.
Right.
That's crazy.
That took five years to get that whole series out.
Yeah.
That's a long time.
It is.
It's not for that many books, I guess, if you think about it that way, I mean like wheel of times over like 30 years, but.

(29:32):
Oh, for sure.
But I, um, I'll, I'll read off another little section here for anyone who might be less familiar with the pre 2014 era.
Like we're talking about the last five years specifically.
And then the five years before that was a brief mention, but anyone who doesn't really, you're not really familiar with star Wars books, you know, prior to 2014, like this is for you.

(29:55):
So a pivotal moment in star Wars storytelling occurred in 2014 following Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilm in 2012.
Uh, this decision involved reclassifying all previously published star Wars literature with the exception of the films and the clone Wars TV series as legends from 2014 onwards, all new material contribute to a unified Canon directly integrated with the cinematic and television narratives.

(30:18):
Uh, something that we have debated about time and time again, the period commencing in 2019 represents a mature phase of this Canon.
The establishment of a continuous Canon integrated with all films and TV shows and its subsequent evolution into the modern Canon signifies a deliberate arch architectural choice in narrative construction.
This approach ensures consistency and minimizes contradictions, a challenge that frequently arose within the sprawling legends community, uh, continuity, sorry, centralized control over the narrative allows for a more synchronized storytelling across various media, providing a coherent universe for audiences to explore this commitment to narrative consistency directly addresses a common desire among dedicated fans for a cohesive and immersion, uh, immersive experience.

(31:06):
By coordinating new stories, by coordinating new stories to prevent contradictions, the publisher was aimed to enhance engagement, encourage fans to delve into different types of media within the same universe and potentially boosting sales across all literally category category categories.
Uh, uh, what do you, what do you think about that Darian?
Cause I know we've had discussions about, you know, even modern Canon stuff and, uh, just in general, the last 10 years worth of Disney Canon, uh, being at times very contradictive to the stuff that they end up coming out with on Disney.

(31:36):
Disney plus, whether it's a, you know, whether it's a, you know, a show or even, you know, like what you were just saying about a game, like a tie in novel to a video game, uh, and just the questions that it generates because of the, uh, the rough, uh, you know, translation going between some of these various things.
Like how successful do you think that this effort has been?
I don't think it's been a very successful at all.

(31:57):
And I think this is where a lot of fans get frustrated with when, when we re-approach things in live action and cartoons because fans have a certain expectation.
And then Dave Filoni and, uh, Favreau are really good at giving us the, the general broad strokes of the Canon we're used to.
But every once in a while, there's something where it's like, that's not at all what we've had in our heads for a decade now.

(32:23):
It's like, that's always been a problem with Star Wars and just kind of like big franchises that then expand themselves.
So it's hard to, uh, keep up with what people's expectations are.
But I think it's just a little bit more obvious right now because we're hitting it at a much faster speed.
Right.
Yeah.
You got anything to build on there?
Like they're creating so much content.
Yes.
Uh, yeah, they, they were, they were creating a ton of content.

(32:44):
I mean, like, you know, it's, it's, uh, I mean, in some ways, I guess they, you know, and I guess maybe some ways to compare it would be to take the last 10 years and compare it to the 10 years before.
And just to see like, you know, the difference of how much got pumped out.
Right.
Cause 10 years at this point is basically pre Disney, right?

(33:04):
If you go more than 10 years.
Yeah, exactly.
I would say that there's more content in the last 10 years than the 30 years before it.
The only, I think you're probably right, but I know there's a huge push around 99 with Phantom Menace and kind of through the prequels.
So I'm not sure.
It definitely didn't go for as long as the, as the full 10 years.

(33:25):
This last 10 years kind of was like a consistent push and didn't really feel like it ever slowed down.
Whereas around the prequel era, there was a huge push, but then it kind of, it slowed down quite a bit through like the era of the Clone Wars show.
Was mostly about the show with like some novels, but not nearly as many as definitely Menace.
I think, I think after, especially after Revenge of the Sith, there was a bit of a dry 10 years that came after that.

(33:48):
Yeah.
You know, leading up to, um,
Probably close to Force Awakens.
Yeah.
Leading up to Force Awakens.
The announced Force Awakens.
Yeah, basically.
Um, but you know, it's, it's at least when I think of, of that time period, you know, during when the prequels are coming out, like I have some very fond memories and I still have my books, but, um, very fond memories of childhood scholastic book series that were coming out.

(34:11):
The junior novels, if you will.
Um, you know, I've read like a, a five or six part Boba Fett, like a young Boba Fett, uh, story, which the books weren't that long.
Like we're talking like thin paperback, 30 page ones, right?
30 chapter books.
30, 30 pages.
No, no, no, no.
It was like, you know, like maybe like half an inch thick, like maybe like 27, 30 chapters, 20 chapters, 40 size font, 25 chapters.

(34:38):
Yeah.
Like, like, I mean, if somebody was a fast reader, you could get through one and like, maybe like, you know, an hour and a half or something, you know, but like, yeah, like they're not huge.
They're not massive, right?
Like they're, yeah.
They're junior novels.
They're junior novels.
Yeah.
Like they're, they're fairly quick to get through, but they weren't bad because they were short.
They were, they're really good in fact.

(34:58):
And, and they were really good about keeping a narrative that bridged from one book to the next book.
So if you put them all together, you'd have a fairly normal size adult novel, perhaps, you know, like in a, in a series, um, the Jedi apprentice series started doing this before Phantom Menace or around the same time that Phantom Menace was coming out.
And I think that series lasted like almost 40 books.

(35:19):
It was like 30 something, 40 books, something like that.
Uh, then they did, uh, the Jedi quest books, 10, 10 books with, uh, Obi-Wan and, and Anakin.
Um, and then, uh, the last of the Jedi, which was, uh, Ferris Olin and, and Obi-Wan after episode three.
Uh, so like, you know, I, I have solid memories of all these series that came out and, uh, that was a ton of books.

(35:42):
If you count each and an individual, one of them.
Right.
And, and a lot of dark horse comic books came out during that time as well.
The Republic series was big, pretty big at the time.
Um, and, uh, you know, uh, other stuff.
I don't know.
There's some X-Wing series that came out around then too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dark horse is big, but, uh, but now we're, we're kind of back to that, but just in a, in a matter of story that, that, that, that no one's really familiar with because it only exists in the literature.

(36:10):
I think that, I get why they did that because they were kind of testing the waters, I think.
But I also feel like that didn't draw a huge interest because of that, if we're referring to the High Republic stuff.
Yeah.
Because like the big push that made those junior novels you're talking about in the Phantom Menace era so popular is that all these kids had just seen this movie in the theater.
Mm-hmm.

(36:30):
Yeah.
So, um, here's some, here's some just general stats for you.
Uh, this is, in, this is encompassing resource books, uh, that's like visual dictionaries, stuff like that.
Uh, junior novels, young adult novels, audio, um, like published for audio book, you know, which is only like six, um, the, uh, young adult novels as well as adult novels.

(36:52):
And, uh, I think, uh, this is also encompassing like maybe comic books possibly anyway, 239 over 239 total publications in the last five years to 2019 to the present day.
Um, the modern Canon era, uh, that's how much stuff has been published, you know, since January, 2019, 40 plus High Republic titles.

(37:15):
Uh, that's books like main books, um, with, uh, and that's, you know, to me, that's insane.
Um, a good, uh, infographic is like, at least like showing me that it's actually pretty evenly distributed between, well, majority of it is comics, but a lot of it's evenly distributed between novels and reference books.

(37:35):
So there's actually been a lot of like non-story related books that they've done as well.
Uh, being like, you know, like that book that I have on the shelf over there, like year by year, a visual dictionary or a visual history or, or like the acolyte visual dictionary.
Yeah.
I saw that one on Amazon just, just recently when I was doing research.
Yeah.
So like, there's definitely been stuff that they've come out with that Star Wars publishing has come out with.

(37:57):
That's like, how much of this stuff would we have had prior to the Disney era?
You know?
Um, I remember those big visual dictionaries when the movies came out.
Do you remember those?
Like I can still imagine the episode three one in my head with Yoda on the cover or Grievous on the cover.
I don't know if I saw these.
Yeah.
Darian, do you remember the visual dictionaries from DK?
I have one of the smaller ones that wasn't any one movie in particular.

(38:18):
It was kind of all, all nine.
So I love them.
They're great, but they're not curated super well.
Okay.
All right.
Well, hopefully the new ones are a bit better, but, um, yeah, anyway, I just, I just remember those.
So, so we're counting like all that stuff too, but, um, yeah, uh, pretty nuts.
Um, let me think here.
Uh, novel releases saw a peak in 2019 driven by ties to the rise of Skywalker.

(38:41):
Um, anytime that a new movie came out, they always also did have a bit of a ramp up with
titles that had the journey to the force awakens or journey to the last Jedi or journey to the
rise of Skywalker.
Skywalker, um, tie tie long movie.
Yeah.
Like tie in books, tie in material of some kind.
Um, and you ever do a novel about broom boy?

(39:04):
Nope.
We're never going to know what happened to that poor broom boy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, so yeah.
Uh, the rise of audio dramas took place within the last five years to the first being in
2019 with Dooku Jedi lost.
That one was fantastic.
Uh, they had an adaption of the first two volumes, I think of the Dr. Afro Marvel series.

(39:25):
Um, they did, uh, the higher public Tempest runner with the Nile villain, Lorna D, which
expanded out the, uh, the way the phase one, uh, of the higher public.
And then they also did one called the higher public, the battle of Jedha, which was, uh,
depicted as a pivotal peace conference that descends into chaos.
Um, that one was January, 2023.

(39:45):
So they've done a number of these like audio drama exclusives that have been written to
be like a dramatized adventure story that, that then, you know, when they publish the
script, it's just published like a script in a novel form.
So it's not actually written to be a novel at all.
It's written to be a, uh, an audio adventure, but, um, tons of higher public stuff.

(40:07):
So I looked it up on Reddit, you know, and, and, uh, 10 months ago, there was a big thread
saying, is star Wars, the higher public, a success in terms of sales and economic impact.
And, uh, like Darian said, like, you know, possibly the second wave being like the most
negative, you know, when it comes to sales.
And I don't know where the information is confirmed or where, where we can actually confirm

(40:29):
any of that information.
But like, you know, I, I would believe it, you know, if somebody, you know, like you said,
Darian, like, I think it's, you know, a fairly accurate, uh, sort of guesstimation to
make because like, since that point, we, like you said, like, like, you know, walking
with a bookstore, where's all the star Wars stuff.
It's weird.
Right.
Right.
And to tie directly to that, I actually pulled up on Amazon, the light of the Jedi higher

(40:51):
public series.
And just looking at the number of reviews you can just see.
So not even like the review itself, cause it's pretty consistently about four and a half
stars, but the total number of people who review it, the first one, which was light
of the Jedi had just shy of 2000 reviews.
And then the next one actually was a step up at 14.
And then there's a huge drop off to 3000 and it just keeps dropping from there.

(41:16):
Do you think, uh, I wouldn't be surprised.
Go for it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the books picked up sales later, but I remember it being on the
news that, that there was one or two books from that era that during phase two were in
like hundreds of sales and for, for a month or two and people were like, are they going

(41:37):
to cancel the series because nobody is buying it?
It's pretty crazy.
Like I'm just looking at here when you get farther down, not even that far.
So like you get to book six, uh, on Goodreads, there was 222 reviews on Amazon.
There was 69 reviews.
Yeah.
It's not a lot at all.
It's not, not even a hundred.
And that there's several books that come after that.
Is this on Amazon.ca?

(41:59):
Um, that's a good question.
I don't, I think they converge reviews though.
I don't think it matters.
It's pretty consistently around like 30 reviews.
So whereas the 2015 Star Wars Tarkin novel, which came out in the first five years of the
last 10 Disney, Disney Canon era has, uh, over almost, almost 5,000 reviews.
It's got 4,789.

(42:20):
So like clearly, you know, oh, and then the third Thrawn book from, uh, 2024, almost 9,000
ratings, uh, but that's, that's last year.
So I wonder maybe, is it just higher public stuff?
But that is the majority of Star Wars over the last five years in the novel area though.
Yeah.
Which would explain like a large percentage of drop off, drop off for books in general.

(42:43):
I mean, they committed hard to it, right?
So, oh, they did.
Yeah.
Cause I know if you look at the authors, a lot of the authors that were writing stuff in
the kind of return to the Jedi or even like empire strikes back era over five years ago,
they rehired all of those authors to write the higher public stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm just curious how many of that, uh, the high Republic did each of you guys read?

(43:06):
We read a good chunk of phase one.
Phase one.
Yeah.
We read most of it.
Yeah.
We haven't read anything in phase two or three.
Um, but, um, I did read, we fit the graph.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, like, um, I think at least for, for the, for us, let me, let me just, let me just
bring up a, let me just bring up a list here.
Star Wars, uh, phase, phase one, higher public.

(43:29):
Um, okay.
So we started off with the light of the Jedi.
Um, we did also read the into the dark young adult novel.
Um, we also read, um, a test of courage, which was a junior, junior novel.
Um, I, I personally did read, uh, some of the Marvel comics, I think, uh, at least most

(43:52):
of the time leading up to the second Del Rey novel.
Uh, we did read the rising storm, which was the second big novel in that first phase.
Um, I read, I read race to crash point tower, which was a junior novel.
Um, I think I can't remember if we read out of the shadows.
Yeah, we did.

(44:12):
Did we?
Okay.
Uh, I definitely listened to Tempest Runner, the, um, audio adventure.
I don't know about you.
I think I did too.
We did not read Mission to Disaster, but we did read The Fallen Star, which was the third
and final book to that trilogy.
Uh, Midnight Horizon, we skipped that one as well.
And, and then that, and then there was the Tales of Light and Life, which was, uh, like

(44:33):
a bunch of short stories all combined into one book, which we didn't read.
Did we read The Eye of Darkness?
Because I recognize the cover.
Um, the comic book series?
Um.
No, it's book four of the, the adult, adult series.
So maybe that's, was that the first book of phase two?
Book four?
Sorry.
Is it a blue cover?
Yeah.
Blue label?
Blue label is phase two.
Well, black label.

(44:53):
Black label is phase three.
So no, we didn't, we didn't read that.
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.
They separate phase one, two, and three.
Phase one is, uh, gold labels.
Phase two, which is the prequel, is, is blue.
And then phase three, which is, um, the conclusion of phase one is black.
I think they already used that artwork then, because I recognize it.
That's, uh, that's the marquee on row.

(45:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So he's, he's shown up a lot.
So you, you would have seen him at some point in maybe a comic book or something.
Um, so yeah, so in general, Darren, like, yeah, well, like, I feel like between the
two of us, we read like the majority, almost all phase one phase one.
Yeah.
Okay.
So putting aside the attempt at a Tarantino style timeline, what about the series made

(45:35):
you Peter off reading it?
I'm just curious as I never read any of it because there were some basic concepts to
this timeline.
I didn't want to read.
Okay.
I, like my short version answer to that is it was just too drawn out.
I think they could have avoided publishing so much material across multiple different

(45:56):
reader formats, uh, which was the junior, the young adult and the adult novels.
Like there was just so much stuff plus the, plus the comic books and the audio adventure.
Um, and then on top of that, the story towards the middle point, which was the rising storm
novel, neither of us liked very much.
That one was a bit of a grind.
Yeah.
That one was a huge grind.

(46:17):
Um, and the next one was better though.
The next one was great.
Yeah.
Fallen star was good.
Uh, rising, rising storm was, was rough.
Uh, so like, I think for us, it was the fact that the, the center point, like the middle of
that first segment of the story was just slow and uninteresting and, um, mostly about politics.

(46:39):
And because it's such a big event that they're trying to convey, uh, uh, um, like two multiple
version, like multiple different types of readers.
You start to, uh, come across a lot of repeat materials.
So like, for example, towards the middle point of the rising storm, uh, this giant galactic
fair is happening and then it gets attacked by pirates and things go wrong.

(47:02):
And a lot of people die.
And if you go to the junior novels or the young adult novels, which are telling different perspectives
with different characters, but taking place at the same time during the same event, you
just have to essentially read the same story all over again, but with different people doing
different things.
And even though it's a different story, the actual event, if it doesn't interest you at

(47:26):
all, you know, affected everything across the board.
And, and that included the comic books as well.
So I feel like it was only towards the end of phase one where, when it got interesting
again, that it was like, okay, this is going to be a long haul of rollercoaster.
And then when phase two hit, and it was actually a prequel to phase one, my interest in reading

(47:46):
just the backstory of what already felt like a good, uh, didn't know it needed a prequel.
It didn't, it didn't need a prequel.
A lot of the backstory was political backstory as well as just completely.
Unrelated stories about other Jedi a hundred or 200 years before in this time period, setting
up kind of the modern Republic politics system and this and that, and exploring the outer

(48:11):
rim and, you know, kind of sending people out.
Um, and it was like just unrelated to the story they were telling in phase one, which
is why it made no sense that it was phase two.
Right.
And, you know, maybe someone who's read phase two can like give me a list of reasons why
phase two is relevant, but I felt like just from what I saw, most of it was not.

(48:31):
And then, um,
It was like a detour in the middle.
Yeah.
It was like a detour in the middle.
And, and I think at least for me, that was a huge deterrent to read phase two stuff.
And then I would consider reading some phase three just to see the end of the story.
I think I would too.
But the thing is that we've just been, so much stuff happened within the last year and
a half when phase three was coming out that I feel like neither of us really got around

(48:53):
to it.
And then on top of that, there's still non higher public books that did come out as well
that we had an interest in reading.
Yeah.
You know, including that battle scars book that you read Darian along with, uh, you know,
we watched, we read that one with the Jedi council.
Yeah.
The, uh, the living force, you know, that, that came out as well.
Uh, we also did, uh, the reign of the empire book more recently.

(49:16):
Um, you know, there's been, there's been stuff, uh, over the last, uh, couple, you did
the inquisitor book.
Yeah.
Rise of the red blade, the inquisitor book.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
That one was, uh, that one was interesting.
Um, yeah.
So there's definitely been some stuff that has come out, you know, over the last year,
which, which has not been specifically higher public material.

(49:36):
I'm curious to just look up if that has a, like a bigger read count and just compared
to some of the public stuff.
The Obi-Wan Anakin book, Brotherhood.
That one was decent.
I looked at it first.
There was also that, um, pride of the Jedi audio book.
Which one?
Sorry.
That one was, there was a pride of the Jedi audio book with Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan.

(49:57):
That one was pretty interesting.
I don't.
Oh yeah.
Um, uh, what was that called again?
I forget.
Pride of, Pride of the Jedi, I think.
Oh, hold on.
No, that doesn't ring a bell.
Um, I know which one you're talking about though.
Uh, I just can't.
Padawan's Pride.
Padawan's Pride.
Padawan's Pride.
Oh, Padawan's Pride.
Yeah.
I did not read that one.

(50:17):
Brian Stu Miller wrote it.
Okay.
Yeah.
So that's, yes.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah.
The audible, uh, the audible, uh, original, uh, that's, uh, uh, Obi-Wan and, and, um, Anakin,
uh, story between, uh, episode two and three or one and two, sorry.
Um, written by, uh, written by Brian Q.
Miller.
Um, so yeah, I still need to listen to this one.

(50:39):
I just interject here.
Comparatively, uh, Brotherhood had about 2,300 reviews on Amazon and then Goodreads had 10,000.
So it's kind of back into that, uh, original median.
And that was, and that was 2022.
So that was only, uh, 23 actually.
Oh, 2023?
Mm-hmm.
So that was only like two, two, two and a half years ago?
I think it's almost exactly two years actually.

(51:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Oh, we also did Shadow of the Sith, uh, from Adam Christopher.
That was that book about Luke and Lando that had the really weird ending.
Yeah.
Don't tell me anything about that.
That's, I just like that.
Okay.
You'll enjoy the ending.
Let us know about the ending.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, we did a full review on that one.
Um, yeah.
So, uh, and then there's been a ton of, ton of Powerpublic stuff.

(51:24):
So, uh, I guess in conclusion, um, you know, I do have a little bit here that I'll, uh, that
I'll read out, um, because there has been a ton of stuff.
Uh, let's just see here.
So since January 1st, 2019, Star Wars Publishing has entered a robust, strategically coordinated
modern canon era.
The sheer volume and diversity of releases across adult, young adult, and junior novels, comics,

(51:49):
manga, reference material, all demonstrate a comprehensive approach to expanding the universe.
A consistent and diverse output since 2019, spanning multiple formats and targeting different
demographics indicates that the modern canon has evolved into a self-sustaining narrative
ecosystem.
It no longer solely relies on film releases to drive literary content, but actively generates

(52:12):
new storylines and characters that can be adapted or expanded upon in other media, creating
a continuous cycle of content creation and consumption.
The focus on initiatives like the higher public coupled with ongoing series and multimedia
adaptions underscores a commitment to both deep lore expansion and broad audience engagement.
The notable shift towards audio dramas further exemplifies the franchise's adaptability to,

(52:36):
uh, new consumption formats.
This period reflects a mature and confident publishing strategy, ensuring that the Star Wars
literary galaxy continues to grow and captivate fans for years to come.
With many exciting titles already announced for the future releases, the consistent announcement
and release of future titles demonstrates a proactive strategy to ensure the long-term narrative

(52:57):
longevity of the Star Wars franchise.
By continually building out new eras and exploring different corners of the timeline, the universe
is actively being expanded, ensuring a steady stream of new stories and maintaining fan
interest well beyond the current film saga.
This strategic foresight is crucial for a multi-billion dollar intellectual property, uh, on the,

(53:19):
in that part, I agree.
Um, in the part of, uh, engaging fans and keeping fan interest beyond the current film sagas,
I feel like that's kind of split depending on how you look at things.
You know, uh, I don't think the higher public really kept fan interest at all.
And I feel like the, the show that they did make for that time period turned fans away.

(53:39):
That's actually a good question.
I'm wondering, when we look at the amount of like number of reviews, at what point did
the acolyte come out?
Uh, the, the acolyte, well, the phase three is just wrapping up now, like just last two
weeks ago or last week or whatever it was, the final novel came out, um, for phase three
of the higher public, but the acolyte got released.

(54:00):
Yeah, it got released sort of between phase two, phase two and phase three kind of coming
out.
I think phase three had already just started to come out.
Okay.
No, cause the drop off was during phase two.
Okay.
Yeah.
This is before acolyte even came out.
So drop off was phase two.
Acolyte came out, didn't do any favors.
Phase three came out.
It was a short lived phase.

(54:21):
There was less stuff in phase three, I think than in phase two and one, but, um, yeah,
I think it suffered from the problem of they bet on this being a banger.
They were probably recorded the season for acolyte when the first phase was in publishing.
And then because of how long it took them to do all the CGI and everything, it ended up

(54:42):
coming out the worst point of sales for the phase two.
Right.
I think that's kind of what happened.
And it sounds like it suffered the same problems that the book had.
Yeah.
That's really unfortunate timing.
If that's how it all came out.
It is.
Um, now that we have like a lot of examples though, like the question going forward is
we know what they're doing now, at least within the last five years, the higher public has

(55:07):
kept star Wars literature busy with a project because there has been no films in the last
five years.
Right.
Whereas in the five years before, there's been a number of series, which arguably is more
content than a movie series.
Yes.
But I wonder if maybe they, they were too afraid to develop literature for this evolving

(55:27):
around those series specifically at the request of the creatives doing those shows.
Because managing stories that happen cross shows, like the way that Book of Boba and Ahsoka
and Mandalorian and Skeleton crew have all been telling that story.
That's already a big challenge.
So to communicate with authors and stuff, that's a good point to make tying content probably

(55:48):
was off the table.
I mean, it's kind of, it's probably the same reason why all the books that came out before
just before fan or excuse me, just before a force awakens didn't have anything to do
with force awakens.
Yeah.
Like it was all very, like very teasing, right?
Like it wasn't, it wasn't even like you could go into the force awakens and I did having

(56:08):
read every single piece of literature that they came out with prepping you for the movie.
None of it helped.
Yeah.
And I was so, that made it even worse.
Like when I went to see all that effort, I was like, dude, like, like, come on, you know,
like it just give me something here.
Like, I mean, whatever, uh, but, uh, but I, you know, I think that's probably one reason

(56:29):
for that.
So the last five years, they've been kept busy with making this era of star Wars.
And I think like, I love the idea, you know, I love the approach.
I love the idea.
I love that because there was no big event movie to kind of construct stuff around that
they looked at the last five years, uh, or at least they looked forward five years and

(56:49):
went, okay, let's, let's make a project to develop story within this time period.
And I love the approach.
I love that.
It's a great idea, right?
The execution and the final product, it's a hit or miss depending on what you're reading
and what you're looking at.
And I feel like, you know, it was very niche as far as bringing in new fans.

(57:09):
It was a very niche thing to expect maybe for the fan base to grow based on this content,
but no doubt new fans to star Wars have still, you know, I'm sure there's people out there
have been brought into the fold by consuming higher public content and really liking it.
Yeah.
I can see that.
And they may not even realize that that's huge time jump before Phantom Menace.

(57:31):
They might just think that that's around that period.
Yeah, exactly.
If you're a new fan.
Totally.
So, you know, it's not all been like a wasted effort or anything.
And now actually we have some lore that takes place in that time period, which before even
in the Legends continuity, we didn't really have anything.
So, yeah, I mean, yeah, because there's a big gap between KOTOR and the Pringles.
A hundred percent.

(57:51):
And I will, I do also really want to like give them props because they created so many
new characters, which is refreshing because sometimes it gets tired when all the novels
are kind of about the same characters we've been talking and reading about for the last
40 years.
Oh man.
And, and, you know, to build on top of that, like they had the way that they did it too.
They approached it as if it was going to be a movie.

(58:14):
They had concept artists come in, make art for these ideas, like for these Jedi, for
these characters that they were making stories for, for creatures and aliens and things that
would show up.
Ships as well.
Yeah.
And then they kept it consistent through the comic books and the novels and, and that
all worked.
That part was all super cool.

(58:34):
Yeah.
That all worked really well.
Um, I think it was, I think they had some, I know I've talked about this every time that
we've talked about the higher public, but they had some really solid ideas that I felt
like just kind of fumbled.
Yeah.
And specifically Marky on row with his like thrash metal pirates.
I thought were awesome.
Like his Viking pirates.
I thought that was such a cool concept.

(58:55):
Yeah.
And I also really liked the base and that's why like the, the base idea of the, uh, the
zombie grunge alien, the Dren gear.
Thank you.
The Dren gear.
But then they kind of dropped the ball of making them sentient when they should have
just been like, uh, almost like the zombie that they did in the death trooper novels.
That was basically, in my opinion, they would have been more interesting if they had done

(59:17):
that.
Definitely.
Yeah.
But it's a cool concept.
Like it is.
And I love how they approached that idea of building out an era with the scale that
they did.
I feel like there may have been a little too much content delivered at the end, at the end
of the day, but, uh, you know, it was a great concept idea and, and their plan and stuff
like that was, was interesting.
Um, what would you, what would you, now that you've kind of like experienced some of the

(59:39):
higher public the last five years, like what would you expect for the next five years?
We have an idea of what kind of stories they want to do.
You know, we've got a possible shelved new Republic, new Jedi order Ray movie that it's
currently supposedly shelved, but they, they still want to do it.
Then there's the Ryan Gosling starfighter movie also happening in that time period in

(01:00:01):
that era post all post rise of Skywalker, you know?
Um, and then of course they have, uh, some other projects in the works, you know, the,
the, the dawn of the Jedi James Mangold movie.
That's sort of early, early pre-production stages trying to figure out the script.
Uh, they have, uh, uh, the, the new Republic era with Dave Filoni doing a Soka season two

(01:00:23):
and a movie that takes place in that space, as well as the Mandalorian and Groku, which
could potentially turn into a trilogy.
So like, what would you expect from literature over the next five years?
Now that you know what a multimedia project of the higher public scale is like,
it's kind of tough to put anything to that.
Cause like all of it, I wouldn't suggest trying to repeat that at least in the near future.

(01:00:45):
Uh, I could see maybe trying to do that again in another like decade or so, but I think they,
it would be good to like, in my opinion, if I were doing it, I would pull back and just
do more one-off novels like they did early on.
I think that's probably the safest bet because I know for myself, so I don't want to speak
for all fans, but I've been feeling like it's just been too big and too much.

(01:01:06):
Yeah.
So maybe it's better to slow down, uh, and kind of like, you know, get your, get your legs
back underneath you again, get your fundamentals and just do some cool one-off stories.
All right.
And that could be a good way to introduce some new characters that people like in that
era.
Like, like how we got Dr. Aphra, for example.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What about you, Darren?
What would you, what would you want from literature, uh, to shift gears for the next five years?

(01:01:30):
Like what, what, what would you expect?
I always kind of wanted to see the clone's life starting on Kamino up to the battle of like
the end of the first occupation of Geonosis.
I always enjoy Clone Wars stories and that's something that really hasn't been covered well yet.
Okay.
So you want to see more built out between episode two to one and two to episode six kind

(01:01:53):
of thing.
Yeah.
I like that era.
My, my favorite part of that, where I think the storytelling got really good was just before
phase two clone armor.
That's when they're, they've ironed out all the wrinkles with all the ships and whatnot
that they're building.
And, and the GAR is really starting to make way.
Okay.
All right.
So specifically Clone Wars stuff, you want to see more, more from Clone Wars?

(01:02:14):
Yeah, I think so.
Okay.
And the Mandalorian timeline would be pretty fun.
There's some comics in there.
Like I believe they did the Mandalorian as a comic.
Yeah.
They did an adaption of the show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, what about you?
I, you know, now, now that I've experienced what a modern multimedia story initiative, like
the higher public looks like, um, in my opinion, it was just, um, you know, we already

(01:02:38):
ran over the reasons why it was good.
Uh, but in my opinion, it was just a little too much and a little too big.
Yeah.
And, uh, I think going forward when you have multiple stories being developed now for the
first time in multiple eras, uh, this is unlike anything we've experienced before with sequel
movies coming out as an episode seven, eight, nine with the two standalone side movies, which

(01:03:01):
one of them did not do as well financially for speculative reasons.
So like, you know, I feel like how they need to approach the next five years, especially
with literature, they need to be very careful about how they develop that space and like
how they market the stories that they're making.
So doing one-off novels, like what you suggest, I think would be probably to their preference,

(01:03:23):
um, for driving a sale, you know, uh, especially if they do have a movie like starfighter coming
out, uh, in, you know, a year or so or two years with, or, and Mandalorian and Grogu coming
out next year.
Um, you know, I think a great idea would be, Hey, let's do one or two novels that can send
us into the Mandalorian and Grogu, you know, like what, what kind of stories can we, can

(01:03:47):
we tell now that that movie is green lit, it's been shot, it's, it's being post-produced,
like what kind of stories are safe to develop?
That would be good stories that would be relevant to people going into this movie that we can
market this book and send them into that movie with a good story, you know, like that, that
kind of sets them up or whatever and not in, and not in a failed way, like, you know, the

(01:04:08):
pre force awakened stuff.
Yeah.
But immediately after that, I thought they did a pretty good job with catalyst leading
into Rogue One.
That was a great book.
Yeah.
That was a great, that's, that's a great point.
You know, like catalyst was awesome.
And now what that came out, it was super relevant.
Yeah.
And it came out before Rogue One, right?
I think.
Yeah, I did.
I think so.
Yeah.
So like, check that.
Yeah.
I want, I want, I want more stuff like that.

(01:04:28):
Right.
I also, I mean, I'm a sucker for Clone Wars anything.
So like, I mean, I'll take Clone Wars any day of the week, but if it has to do with the
modern sort of release of new stuff, you know, like, I think that's how I would like it is
like dial it back, produce less.
And sometimes less is more, you know, like, you know, maybe instead of 10 books a year across

(01:04:48):
junior adult, young adult, maybe dial back to like maybe two, two or of each at least, like
at the very most, you know, maybe even one of each.
And just like, I don't know.
I know, I know Del Rey likes to put out like for a year or something like rough like that,
if I'm not mistaken.
But, you know, maybe dial it back and just put more emphasis behind the story and like

(01:05:09):
the relevance of the book.
And then I think furthermore, keep it relevant, you know, like I feel like they're just too
wishy-washy with like making a new TV show, contradicting something within the canon.
They've tried to develop so hard to keep consistent.
And, you know, no one has mentioned as to who's responsible for that.
But like, it's I think like that's also an issue they have to watch out for.

(01:05:31):
And the more stuff they pump out, you know, with gargantuan multimedia things, the more stuff
that can go wrong with that kind of stuff.
I think I might need to change my response a little bit in regards to just like how much
they're putting out.
Because I did just quickly pull up, this is on Wikipedia, just how many books per year.
And to be honest, even through the 2000s, like there was a lot of books.

(01:05:54):
But I think the thing was they weren't all connected.
So you didn't feel obligated to read all the series.
You could just read the ones that you liked.
Because if you look at, like I slowed down a bit around 2006, but like 2004, I think there
must be like there's over 10 books.
Can I see the list?
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But 2004.
Okay.
Yeah.
But this is.

(01:06:14):
Yeah.
But this is a.
Okay.
We got a junior novelization for the original trilogy.
So that one, I feel like we can just discard that.
We got the first book of the Republic Commando series that year.
We got.
Best book ever.
That's a good.
Great book.
Um, Jedi Quest, the final showdown.
That was a number 10 in the Jedi Quest series.
Uh, Boba Fett pursuit.
That was number six in the Boba Fett series.

(01:06:36):
Uh, Jedi trial.
That was part of the Jedi Quest series.
Jedi Quest false peace.
That was part of the Jedi Quest series.
Jedi.
So like these, this, these are all part of Boba Fett, Jedi Quest survive.
Like those are all part of junior novel.
Um, different ongoing series.
Yeah.
Those aren't.
My point was they're not all related to each other.
No, exactly.

(01:06:57):
Yeah.
They're, they're not all related to each other, but, but I feel like if you compress those
like small books, again, these are all very small books.
Like mostly junior, mostly junior for that whole year, which is really interesting to
see, uh, with like one adult novel being hard contact, uh, sorry, two adult novels,
uh, Yoda, dark rendezvous.
That was a adult novel as well.
Um, and maybe like two or three others.

(01:07:18):
And like, there's like four adult novels that year.
The rest of it's all junior ongoing series stuff.
And that's one of the bigger release years.
Yeah.
So I want to compare that to, I think the biggest one I saw was 2022.
Yeah.
Compare it with one of the last five years, years.
And it's like doubled.
Yeah.
2022.
Yeah.
2022.
Okay.
Yeah.
So we got, uh, okay.
Fallen Star High Republic.

(01:07:39):
That's an adult novel.
We've got, um, Brotherhood.
Uh, Shadow of the Sith.
Uh, Princess and the Scoundrel.
Uh, High Republic Convergence.
I feel like that, that was, that was an adult novel.
Um, and again, then we got some young adult novels.
Um, and, and young adult and junior are now kind of, there's like three categories instead

(01:08:00):
of just the two.
Right.
You know?
So that, and then that's not even counting all the comic books that are not on this list.
No, that's just novels.
It almost looks like it's doubled.
Like, just in general, the amount of, well, the number of adult novels for sure.
Yeah.
And it's like, it feels like there's just so much more than there used to be.
Yeah.
I think that one to two year, one or two books per year, to be honest with you.

(01:08:20):
Yeah.
Like, that's where I'd be comfortable, but I'm not like a huge avid reader.
So I think I could see some people wanting two or three.
Yeah.
Maybe two is like the good middle ground for like adult novels.
And then maybe do another, like two young adults.
And then like the really simple junior ones, but I'll like, honestly, you can probably put
out like six to 10.
Yeah.
Like two adult novels, two young adult novels, and then maybe like, you know, keep it light

(01:08:42):
with juniors and keep them small.
Cause like some of the junior novels that I've read have been larger than some of the junior
novels that I used to read when I was a kid.
Right.
Yeah.
They've gotten like, for sure.
Gotten bigger.
Yeah.
They've gotten, they've gotten beefier, I guess.
Cause like maybe the age that are reading junior novels has increased to an older age.
They've had to like shift it forward a little bit with.

(01:09:02):
Right.
Reading or preferences.
Or they're paid by the word.
Hmm.
I have no idea.
Yeah.
Probably not.
But yeah, that's at least what I'm hoping for.
I hope they kind of look back at the last five years and decide to dial it back and then
also combine that with the strategy that they had from the five years before that.

(01:09:22):
Yeah.
I thought that was more successful.
It was a bit more successful when they were doing just the independent, like single stories
that are also potentially tie in material and, you know, keeping it light.
So, you know, let's, let's scale it back a little bit.
I think that's probably a good idea.
Yeah.
I agree with that.
I know that, that we did have a possible backup subject for this episode.

(01:09:42):
Did you want to bring that up?
I know it was a really short like article.
I mean, to be honest, I read it so long ago, I don't really remember any of the details.
So I'll be reading it for the first time with you again, if you wanted to go over it.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, we can like, yeah, we can transit, we can shift gears here.
Okay.
Well, uh, that closes the door on our, uh, on our, uh, Star Wars book chat for the, for

(01:10:03):
today.
So let's, uh, let's jet over and, uh, hit up this random news article here.
All right.
So this article is from gamingbible.com.
This is something that you put on our list of things to talk about a little while ago.

(01:10:24):
Yeah, I think it was something I was just kind of stumbled on.
I thought it was kind of neat.
So I'm guessing I had some talking points.
Um, we'll figure it out when we read it because I don't remember now, but, uh, it seems to
be directly related to the new, what I assume is the new canon version of how Anakin came
to be as opposed to the, uh, pre Disney era, which was canonized in the Darth Plagueis

(01:10:47):
novel.
All right.
Let's, um, it was left.
I think they, they heavily implied, but did not write, say it correctly, which is Plagueis
and, uh, Palpatine were trying to shift the force, uh, to be on average on the, uh, dark
side of the, of the, the spectrum, which is why, uh, Yoda often refers to as like being
clouded.
Right.

(01:11:07):
But the force, right.
But the force then because, uh, to counterbalance that created Anakin.
Right.
Okay.
It was supposed to bring it back into balance.
That's why he was a chosen one.
So that was, that was the, the old canon.
Okay.
All right.
Um, so yeah, do you want to, do you want to give this a read?
Sure.
Let's go through and then feel free to just stop and chat any time along the way.

(01:11:29):
So star Wars finally reveals Darth Vader's true father in quotations after decades.
And you probably missed it.
The father of Anakin has been a point of debate for star Wars fans for many years since the
prequel trilogy.
In fact, some believe he was a miraculous virgin birth while, while some theorize that
he was a product of the force.
However, it seems that star Wars confirmed one theory back in 2018.

(01:11:53):
And we all simply missed it.
A popular, uh, excuse me, a popular theory of the father of Anakin Skywalker is Palpatine
because of course it is.
Yeah.
It goes back and it goes that old Palps saw out Anakin's mother, Shmi and manipulated the
gestate, uh, gestating fetus.
I'm going to get that word, right?

(01:12:14):
Sure.
Uh, this was not only confirmed in 2018, but put into star Wars canon by writer, Charles
soul and artist, a Guisepe coming, coming, coming, coming.
Thank you.
Yes.
Apologies.
I butchered that, uh, via Darth Vader number 18.
During that issue of the comic book, we see Palpatine via the force projecting, making spell

(01:12:37):
casting hands around Shmi's pregnant belly.
This is via a memory of Vader and he sees and realizes that he was manipulated into becoming
the chosen one for the dark side of the force.
Just to take a pause here.
Does that mean that she was already pregnant though?
No.
So, okay.
So, um, I know what it's talking about cause I've read this series.

(01:12:57):
This is part of the Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith comic book series.
Um, and like you said, this came up in star Wars, uh, uh, Darth Vader issue number 18 of
the Dark Lord of the Sith.
Um, there was a, uh, sort of a, like a vision, a visionary kind of thing that happens where,
uh, you see not a flashback, but like, uh, uh, an imaginary depiction of Shmi with Anakin

(01:13:25):
in the belly, in the womb still.
And, uh, this artful depiction of Palpatine behind her with his hands in this weird for
like sort of spell casting like form.
Uh, and then on, in Shmi's belly, there was like this sort of spirally red or something
like that, if I'm remembering correctly.

(01:13:45):
And, um, I remember, I remember thinking to myself like this, this is a bit strange because
like, you know.
Who she was assuming that Anakin was either until he shows up in Phantom Menace, right?
Yeah.
And this is the, this is the picture right here.
And, uh, it, and the, the, the caption next to the image, it's unnatural.

(01:14:07):
It's something that, you know, he emphasizes in his little monologue to Anakin in episode
three.
So I feel like if anything, it was just a nod of the head, you know, to kind of depict
like that this person who has tried to be an influential, um, person, you know, ever since
he's basically been brought into the Jedi.

(01:14:29):
I think it was just kind of this weird kind of, um, depiction of, of that, because like,
as you can see from the image, Anakin is like a force ghost person in his own vision,
looking at Shmi with him in the womb, and then a vision of like Palpatine kind of like
behind, uh, almost like possessively, you know, kind of there, you know, ready to.

(01:14:51):
As like a dark spirit.
Yeah.
And then underneath there's another image of, of him in the womb with that spiral.
And then it says the chosen one, right?
I don't think it's, I think it could be a nod of the head to people who think that, yeah,
like it's that moment in the Darth Plagueis legends novel where Palpatine and Plagueis do
that thing.
And the force artistically trying to show that.

(01:15:13):
Yeah.
And art.
Yeah.
And the force fights back and creates Anakin, the chosen one.
Right.
So it's maybe in a way artistically trying to convey that, that moment still happened.
Yeah.
Um, but at least the way that I can also look at it is this, this person is, uh, is he,
you know, he, he's like, he's like a creep, you know, like he's ever since Anakin gets the

(01:15:37):
Jedi order.
He's like, Oh, we will watch your career with great interest.
Yeah.
And he knows that he's the chosen one because he's heard the whispers.
He's heard Qui-Gon's prophecy and his claims that like Anakin's this important guy, you
know, this prophesied chosen one.
Um, in the Darth Plagueis book, he hears those, those same whispers, like in the, in that story
as well.
Like the Plagueis actually talks to Palpatine about it, or he, he talks to Dooku about it

(01:16:01):
or something, or Duke tells him or whatever.
Like there was some indication that, uh, you know, whispers that the chosen one has arrived.
Right.
Yeah.
Cause that movie goes, or sorry, excuse me.
That book goes, uh, part, at least partway into Phantom Menace.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and another thing to know, but like context for this, this panel here is like these cards
of images of this moment, aren't like that script isn't related per panel.

(01:16:26):
Like it's like, in one of them, it just says unnatural and it's just like Palpatine doing
his thing.
And then like the chosen one, you know, beneath it.
So I think it's supposed to be very vague.
Um, I don't think it's supposed to be painting us the picture that it's confirmed that Palpatine
Palpatine specifically is creating.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think that's supposed to be the message that's like coming across here.

(01:16:48):
I think it's supposed to be kept a little vague and maybe at the very most, a nod of
the head, you know, to, to maybe the moment in the Darth Plagueis book.
That's at least the way that I look at it.
Yep.
I think, I think I would agree with that.
Um, let me just finish this article here.
See if there's anything else.
It's a bit ham-fisted and adds another complex layer to Anakin's history, but did, it did clear
up a plot point of contention that fans have discussed for years.

(01:17:11):
When I first heard about the canon, this canon point, I was a little disappointed as I felt
rather lazy.
Having the Force create Anakin is one thing as it means that creation was bigger than the
galaxy and life.
However, always treading back to Palpatine as we saw in Rise of Skywalker feels like a
cop-out.
If you're disappointed too, you could always attempt to ignore the addition to the lore

(01:17:33):
and pretend whatever you want.
After all, George Lucas made it vague when Shmi spoke on Anakin's conception with Qui-Gon
in the Phantom Menace, saying there was no father.
I carried him.
I gave birth.
I raised him.
I can't explain what happened.
Otherwise, blame Palpatine.
It's what, it's what Disney would do.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, I think in a way, like to depict it the way it did, it makes it look like Palpatine

(01:17:57):
went out to the middle of frigging nowhere.
Yeah.
Found a pregnant rando and did some weird stuff.
But that doesn't explain why she's pregnant in the first place unless she was just outright
lying.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So I feel like, you know, sometimes articles like this always get me stirred up a little
bit because it's always like, man, you're just reading too much into it.
But I don't know.
At least that's my opinion.

(01:18:18):
I think I agree with you.
Do you have any thoughts of that?
I don't really know.
I'm going to omit myself on this one.
All right.
I'll put them down to a pro.
It was Palpatine.
All right.
Yeah.
So that's, I mean, that's, thank you for sharing that.
That's a, yeah, it was worth going over.
At least now anyone listening who has seen that comic, you know, maybe this helped add

(01:18:41):
maybe a little more.
Yeah.
A little more spice.
A little more detail or, you know, I'll break it down a little bit because that, that
I'm glad you pulled up the image because from the comic because it, it does look a
bit odd.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like it's, it's a, it's an interesting depiction, you know, it's like, it's a weird way to convey
an unspoken message of some kind, you know?

(01:19:02):
And it's like, there's definitely no wrong way to look at it, but it's like, you know,
I think like whenever I look at anything like that, that revisits the George Lucas six
part saga, I just always think first and foremost, like what's the story that George
told, you know, and then secondary to that comes everything else.
So, you know, it's like, I just hate it when, whenever there's a story that goes back

(01:19:24):
and tries to rewrite what we already know and like what we've already seen.
And you know, George is, yeah, or alter it.
And George has always said like, Anakin is the chosen one, you know, he's on video speaking
those words.
And so when they did episode nine and they made Ray a second chosen one, I was like,
like, like, what is this?
What is this ad?
Is that confirmed?

(01:19:44):
Yeah, it is.
But I was like, what in the movie?
But I was like, what is, what is it?
What does this add?
You know, like, like it just doesn't add anything of value to the original six movies that already
told that story.
And I think a lot of people have that issue, you know, with, with that, with that.
Does that mean there's always an avatar of the force?
I mean, if there is, it's like, apparently it happens every 30 years.

(01:20:05):
So, you know, like, well, it could be like the avatar airbender show where it's like,
as soon as they die, like another one is born.
Maybe, maybe, you know, but, but that would be a very short lifespan potentially because,
you know, if they're all human all the time.
Right.
Right.
The other races just never get a, get a shot.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
So, you know, it's like, who's the, who's the chosen one in during the high Republic?

(01:20:25):
I don't know.
Um, so yeah, I don't know.
It's broom boy.
Yeah.
Broom boy.
All right.
Uh, well, that wraps things up for this week.
Uh, you got any last minute things to throw out there?
Um, well, let me just, let me throw, I go back to the novel thing.
I'll throw out one last question for us to close off with then.

(01:20:50):
Do you feel we should continue to make everything forced to be canon?
Or do you think that starts to make things a little bit bland?
Bland because during the high Republic specifically, that big push with all those authors trying
to work together, I felt like it really constricted how creative they could be in that negatively

(01:21:12):
affected how interesting the books were.
I mean, there are always going to be downsides to it.
Um, but I, I still prefer that initiative of keeping a consistent canonicity as much as
possible, uh, because it's, it's a lore, it's a mythology that they're ultimately trying

(01:21:34):
to build and continue building, you know, from the mythology that George Lucas began.
And, uh, the mentality that goes into that is keeping things consistent, you know, and
visions is a cool idea, but I don't think it's necessarily the way to just make any Star

(01:21:54):
Wars story, whatever they want it to be.
You know, I think like there is going to inevitably be things that we don't like and like based
on the continuity restrictions, but I think it's still the way to do it.
Fair enough.
Darian, do you have an answer to that?

(01:22:15):
I'm not a particular fan of visions, but I love the concept.
It's, it's great to have people play in the universe and push at ideas that aren't going
to work necessarily because you never know how it's going to influence the rest of the
universe.
And even if you don't like it, it might be exactly what somebody else wants.

(01:22:35):
Yeah.
So, you know, try and enjoy it.
If you can't, please don't crap on it.
Just, hey, I didn't enjoy it and you're on your marriage.
Yeah.
It's well said.
Yeah.
No, true.
I guess I bring that up because I just feel like we haven't got a lot of really interesting
new characters, like from the George era when writers are given more license.

(01:22:56):
Characters like Mara Jade or the Commandos, right?
Yeah.
Or Savage Repressed.
Yeah.
Savage.
Wait, was he from the comics narrative first?
I thought he started in the show.
Clone Wars.
Okay.
Oh, sorry.
Yeah.
Who's the other character?
No, he's my favorite.

(01:23:16):
The Dash Rendar.
Dash Rendar.
Yeah.
Right?
There's a lot of...
I was waiting for that one.
Oh, I was going to say Starkiller, like the original Starkiller, which is something that
doesn't make any sense in canon, but it's cool.
Yeah.
And it was fun.
But we don't really get anything like that anymore.
Right.
Right.
Because it has to fit in this perfect box.

(01:23:37):
I feel like, you know, so yes, that is true.
But on the other hand, we do have the Jedi games with Cal Kestis, and those have both
been great.
Yeah.
No, I agree with that.
But there's been so few things that have checked that box.
Yes.
At least in my opinion.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
What I really want to see is Iden Versio that doesn't go to the Rebellion.

(01:24:01):
Like a What If series.
Yeah, Darius Empire, man.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
Anyway, that's me just spitballing if maybe the George Lucas Cannon system was better.
Yeah.
The G Cannon.
Yeah.
You know, and it's I think it's always going to be a point of debate where, you know, it's
like how effective is trying to keep this as, you know, continuous as possible.

(01:24:23):
And yeah.
But I think I think it is still the way to go.
I think they just need to do better at maintaining that idea going into the shows and the movies.
You know, they have to look backwards at the literature rather than just thinking that
that platform is the ultimate way to, you know, retell a story that might have already

(01:24:46):
been told.
And, you know, we even saw it recently with Andor and the one shot Marvel comic, you
know, like Tony Gilroy was like, yeah, I'm not sticking to that story.
Like, oh, right.
You know, and it's like, OK, I on the one hand, I see where you're coming from.
On the other hand, it's like there's a cannon to stick to.
Right.
And and it's the principle that matters rather than this really bad one shot Marvel comic.

(01:25:09):
Yet it still exists.
So what do we do about it?
Right.
Yeah.
Well, that's that's also part of my point, though, is we're already slowly going that
direction anyway.
So might as well get good stories out of it, at least.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because like my last point, even to like Timothy Zahn, my favorite Star Wars author, his stuff
in the Disney era, none of it has been nearly as good as his pre-Disney era, in my opinion.

(01:25:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's yeah, it's partially, you know, it's definitely true.
I mean, the heir to the Empire trilogy is still king.
Yeah.
So many.
Allegiance was good, too.
We like that.
And obviously, dude, another one.
I really liked a lot.
Shadows of the Empire.
That that is the Thrawn trilogy.
All right, guys, thank you so much for joining this week.

(01:25:53):
We will catch you in the next one.
May the force be with you.

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State of Star Wars Books & Ratings | Vaders "True Father" Article Debate

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