Clone Wars Rewatch-Season 4: Episodes 15-18

When Obi-Wan Kenobi fakes his own death, the Jedi may win the battle—but lose Anakin Skywalker’s trust forever. This four-part Clone Wars arc is where the cracks start to show, and Palpatine starts to win.

We break down:
 – Anakin’s grief and rage after Obi-Wan’s “death”
 – The ethical trap of "The Box" and the bounty hunter code
 – Palpatine’s manipulation at its finest
 – Why Qui-Gon Jinn might have been the key to saving Anakin

Deception, loyalty, betrayal, and the long shadow of Darth Vader—all in one arc. Subscribe and dive in.

Follow us on social media @TheSWSShow. Once we get our poodoo together, you'll find show clips, behind-the-scenes shenanigans, Star Wars news, memes, updates, and more!

For full episodes to include pre and post-show randomness, join our Inner Circle at patreon.com/circleofnerds

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm just happy that we're not going to record an
entire episode, and I realizedthat it wasn't recorded, so let
us never speak of that again.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
That was, that was a dark day.
That was a dark day for thegalaxy and for the Republic.
All right.
Coming up this week, palpatinepulling strings, and is Anakin
inching closer to the dark side.
It's the clone wars season four, episodes 15, 16, 17, and 18,.
Right here on your Star WarsSafe Space.
There we go.

(00:41):
Hey there, star Warriors,welcome to Star Wars Safe Space,
your non-toxic, low-sodium StarWars show.
That doesn't make you feel badfor not knowing that James
Arnold Tyler provided the voiceof Obi-Wan Kenobi and his
undercover alter ego, the bountyhunter, rocco Hardeen.
He is such a good voice actor.

(01:01):
So, whether you're a hardcorefan or just a little swarzy,
curious, this is your Star Warssafe space.
We are the Circle of Nerds andwe do absolutely love Star Wars,
even if we don't always like it.
So let's meet the crew, shallwe?
Shall we?
If I can push the right buttons, as per usual, there we go.
Pilot of the infamous ParmaFlyer.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
It's crash how you doing everybody s foil's locked
and ready to go there we go.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
There we go, and hailing from parts unknown, it
is t to the oni welcome back tothe galaxy, everybody.
Let's get going yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm that guy, tommy d,
okay.
So what are we doing here?
Well, it's very simple.
Our mission is to watch all ofthe star.
Let's get going.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm thatguy, tommy D, okay.
So what are we doing here?
Well, it's very simple.
Our mission is to watch all ofthe Star Wars canon films and TV

(01:51):
shows in chronological order,breaking them down, connecting
the dots and learning more aboutStar Wars and maybe even a
little bit about ourselves alongthe way.
So a word of warning to all youwould-be Star Warriors out there
there will be spoilers.
So, please, warning to all youwould-be star warriors out there
there will be spoilers.
So, uh, please, please, please,be aware of that.
Um, and, of course, today weare discussing season 4, episode

(02:13):
15, 16, 17 and 18, a very, verycool little arc where we see
obi-wan going undercover as abounty hunter to try and foil a
plot to kidnap and ransom offchancellor palpatine.
And, uh, there was, there was alot going on in this arc.

(02:36):
That was a great arc, greatstory arc.
Um, we had obi-an having to fakehis death, obviously because he
has plot armor.
I think we all knew that hewasn't actually dead, of course,
but it was very interestingthat Anakin was not brought in

(02:59):
on this and we're going tocircle back around to that.
But my first question that Iwant to ask the crew here is
should the jedi council havetold anakin from the start like,
should like, at the very leastlike they like, like obi-wan

(03:21):
said?
You know he needed an Anakin tosell it.
He needed Anakin to not know tosell it so that Hardeen would
believe it and buy it.
But could they at least havetold him when Obi-Wan was
getting his plastic surgery done?
Or did the council and Obi-Wanmake the right choice?

(03:44):
Tony, what do you think?

Speaker 1 (03:49):
I think they should have told him.
Um, I mean, obviously you know,like obi-wan was correct in
that, don't tell him as it'shappening, but like once it's
done.
Yeah, he needs to know becauseI mean he very easily could have
fucked that whole shit up likehe's got a bit of a time, if
will be if will be one.

(04:09):
Didn't grab him like he didn'tand you know, basically give the
game away like, yeah, he likehe would have fucked some shit.
That could have been a wrapthat could have been a wrap.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
That could have been a wrap.
But you know what, anakin?
Anakin kind of got his asshanded to him quite a bit during
this arc.
I mean he was, he was gettingbeat up, I mean he got.
I mean he got, he got zapped.
He was unconscious.
He was on his back more oftenin this arc than I think we've
ever seen him uh so far.
Uh, he was really.

(04:45):
He was really eating the humblepie this time around.
So crash, what do you think uhwas the?
Was the council right in, uh,keeping him out of the loop, or
should they have, like, cluedhim in a little bit?

Speaker 3 (05:00):
I.
I agree that it helped sell theinitial death moment, but
afterwards I really think thatand this is a precursor for what
we'll see later on whereAnakin's mistrust of the Council
that Palpatine exploits theysort of brought it on themselves
.
You could have easily broughthim in after the funeral and

(05:26):
just said hey, he's doing anundercover thing, play it cool.
Because even Ahsoka at thefuneral was like my boy ain't
right.
He hasn't said a word since ithappened.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
I'm worried about Anakin.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
I think this record set an episode for nervous looks
by Ahsoka.
Every time Anakin just wentwanted to go postal on somebody,
whether it was at the diner or,uh, the good morning, you know.
On on now, Huda, yeah, it wasjust like he was off the leash
and Ahsoka is just there going,Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
But he's still.
He's still restrained himself,and I, I thought, I thought that
was when he first grabbedhardeen, who was, of course, was
obi-wan at the time, when hewas passed out in the back room.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Anakin could have sauced him right then and there
yeah but he said the man youkilled wanted you to go to jail
he was trying to be the betterman for the memory of his master
.
And then when the council,especially once they took the
bounty off and it felt like abetrayal of we're not going to
bring this guy to justice forkilling my master, I could see

(06:34):
the strains on the relationshipbetween Anakin and the council
forming already and, like I said, you know so, yeah, my favorite
moment was when theyintercepted them on the ships
and, like you said, anakin'staking a beating because he's
trying to take on three guys andhe's in over his head and you

(06:57):
can see Obi-Wan literally liketrying to throw the game a
little bit so he doesn't getAnakin killed.
And it was just Anakin keptwalking into punches because he
wasn't, his head, wasn't in thegame until Obi-Wan told him who
he was.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
And that's something while Sherry and I were watching
it, you know, we we kind of sawthat, as powerful as Anakin is,
you know one thing about Anakinthat seems to be different than
other people who are, you know,going down the dark path is
that the dark side doesn't givehim focus.

(07:35):
It makes him even more of aloose cannon than he already is.
I mean, he becomes almost, andhe already is.
I mean he becomes almost DarthMaul Savage, like not quite to
Maul's level.
But you know when, during theduel between him and Dooku, I

(07:56):
mean there's no style andDooku's easily handling him,
initially, you know, at firstDooku's handling him because
anakin's just enraged and thereis no form, there is no focus.
But then then he I mean there'sa.
There was a scene it wastowards the end of the fight

(08:16):
where dooku has got like thischair up and anakin pushes him
back and the look on on dooku'sface is like oh shit, oh shit,
this motherfucker is serious andhe is powerful.
And of course Papa Palpatine isjust grinning like a fucking

(08:37):
fox in a hen house, like yeah,that's my boy.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
This was a test.
We always talk about PapaPalpatine.
I love this whole kidnappingplot.
Dooku may have been theringleader of it, but obviously
Palpatine knew of the plot.
He probably orchestrated theirside to make it easy for them.
The balls of Count Dooku sitthere in the Theed Palace in the

(09:03):
dining room Chilling, justchilling, and knowing that
they're're gonna come right tohim, I was like you, crafty
little bastard, like I knowyou're in on both.
Palpatine's got it in on bothsides and this was a the first.
Okay, whoever wins, I win.
If Anakin kills Dooku, I win.
If Dooku kills Anakin he wasn'tready I win it's, absolutely

(09:24):
it's absolutely it's a no losesituation for for Palpy.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
So now let me ask you this this entire, this entire
situation here, this entire plot, what was the purpose?
Was this specifically allmasterminded and and
orchestrated to drive wedgesbetween Anakinakin and obi-wan
and the council?
Was it designed to push him alittle bit closer to the dark

(09:51):
side?
Or was it orchestrated to maybeshow the ineptitude of the
council or or some?
Was it something else, likewhat do you guys think was?
Because really it accomplishedseemingly nothing.
It seemed like it was pointless.
We know that Palpatineorchestrated the entire thing,
but why?
That's what I'm curious about.

(10:13):
Tony, what are your thoughts onthat?

Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean, I think you hit on it.
I think, from Palpatine's pointof view, the biggest thing was
driving a wedge between Anakinand the Council, giving him that
sense of distrust that he couldthen continue to manipulate
until the time was right Now.
To be honest, I don't thinkthey did a very good job of

(10:37):
showing it in the episodes.
I'm still a little confused asto how much Palpatine knew about
Obi-Wan going undercover tobegin with, like obviously he
eventually figures it out, right.
But I don't know that he wasaware that the Jedi Council was
doing that, because it soundedlike he and Yoda and Mace were

(10:58):
at odds about that particularpart of it.
But once it was in place, andespecially once he knew that
they didn't tell anakin his, hisimmediate response was okay.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
This is how I'm going to use this to my advantage
okay, so you're saying that youknow maybe palpatine, you know
he orchestrated this, you knowthis kidnapping plot for some
other reason.
But then you know, you knowPalpy being Palpy, he was able
to quickly pivot and, like yousaid, use it to his advantage.
But I mean also who knows howlong you know Obi-Wan was bugged

(11:32):
, at least from the time that hereceived that sniper rifle.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Right.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
But who's to say?
Who's to say that Palpatinedoesn't have devices hidden all
over the fucking Jedi temple?
Doesn't have devices hidden allover the fucking jedi temple?
I mean, there could be, hecould just know everything, like
always, at all times.
True, crash, what do you?
What do you think?
What do you think about this?

Speaker 3 (11:53):
I.
I think it was a case where,like I said, the council was
reacting to a plot, but I thinkpalpatine was playing both sides
of it.
You know the security plan hadto be approved by him.
You know he's got Captain Rex,you know, while Anakin's off,
you know, chasing down Obi-Wan'smurderer, he's got Rex
chaperoning him.

(12:13):
So clearly.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Rex was a bro.
Rex was a bro, even the mace,even the mace and Yoda.
He was like sorry, sir, I can'ttell you that yoda.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
He was like sorry, sir, I can't tell you that.
Yeah, brett is the bro and Ithink you know again, he's
obviously instructing dooku onhow to proceed because cad bane
was one of his boys.
We've seen him in past episodes.
That palpatine had a directline to cad bane for, for jobs,
yep.
So, however, dooku and cad baneget teamed up and we haven't't
even touched the fact that themiddle part of this arc was a
great case study in the world ofbounty hunters.

(12:51):
The box episode, I think, isthe best episode of the three
because you see what the worldof bounty hunters, outside of
Jango Fett, there's people outthere, just you know, trying to
earn a living doing this thingand they get sucked into this
plot.
But of course, schmuck Bane sawus just for his hat.

(13:14):
I was like, oh, come on.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
And you know what?
I love that?
Because that is so Bane, thatis so Cad Bane.
But to be honest, I liked hisnew hat better.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
And, like Ahsoka said , who else wears a hat?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
that way and she was just so disgusted by it, like
who else wears a hat like that?
And I didn't like the hat.
It looked like he was going togo plant heirloom tomatoes in a
garden somewhere.
I liked the other one.
It had like the cool greeblieson it.
It had a little range finder onit, a little antenna.
I was like all right, that'skind of cool.

(13:47):
His outfit was kind of dorkybut that hat was freaky smooth.
I kind of want that hat for my.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, that is one of my notes.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
What was in your notes, Tony?

Speaker 1 (14:01):
It's.
One of my notes in theseepisodes was I don't ever want
to see cat bane without a hat,like I don't.
I don't know if it's just theshape of his head or what, but
like when he is not wearing ahat, he looks like a nothing.
Like he looks like a weak,ineffectual nothing.
But he puts the hat on, it'slike okay, yeah, he's a badass,
yeah and now he's.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Now he's that gunslinger, but without without
it.
He just has this big old fivehead.
It's not even a forehead, he'sjust got this big giant dome.
But you know, yeah, becausethen he just looks like any
other Duros out there that we'veseen, but he's a bad dude.
He's a bad dude and I can'tremember the name of the actor.

(14:44):
Now it's gone.
It was in my brain, it'sevaporated.
Corey Burton, yeah, he does.
The voice of Captain.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
He does Dooku and Captain.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, when I was watching the credits I saw that
role.
I was like holy crap, james isdoing Hardeen and Obi-Wan, and
then what's the other guy's name?

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Corey Burton.
Corey Burton and these are likeextremely different types of
characters and it just shows youthe amount of talent that Dave
pulled together to make thiswork, because it's just so good,
it's just so good and this is afun arc for james, I think,

(15:27):
because a lot like you said heplayed oh, he's played obi-wan
since the start of the series,but a lot of actors in this show
and dave troney, dave felonialways describes it as his trust
tree.
You know the people he bringsin.
Yeah, this was the episodewhere james kind of and he's
done it a couple of times, butin d bradley does it every
episode but you get to explore adifferent character through a
different voice, even thoughyou're playing the same guy,

(15:50):
like I love the whole face off.
You know, oh, just swallow thisthing and your voice magically
sound like the guy and I'm surefor an actor like james that's
just like candy right and it'scool because he also in in in
the episode.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Uh, when he reports back, you know, he says I'm
rather enjoying playing thevillain and I, you know, and and
obi-wan said that as hardeen.
But I wonder if that was reallyjames like admitting that as
well, like james is, like he's,he's enjoying playing the bad

(16:28):
guy.
But and it was cool because itwas, you know, as I was
listening, you know, even thoughhe was doing hardeen's voice,
he still had obi-wan's like toneand different inflections and
his little, his little sarcasmthat he has.
So I thought that was reallycool.
So I like how his code name wasben and yes, yes, oh,

(16:55):
interesting fact about that youprobably already know um, that
was supposed to have beeninitially ben, was supposed to
have been the affectionate petname um, between satine and and
obi-wan, like that was going tobe her little pet name for him.
But uh, feloni was like Ididn't seem right.

(17:16):
And then the writers for thisepisode said hey, can we use it
as his code name, which justmade sense because that carries
over as his codename later on,as we see.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
I know a little something about having an alias
that people know you by.
So, yeah, I thought that was alittle masterclass in a little
bit of Obi-Wan's psyche Duringbusiness hours.
It's Obi-Wan Kenobi Off hours.
It's Ben Wan Kenobi off hours.
It's Ben.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
It's Ben yeah, or or it's just that that is the code
name that he uses.
So when he's undercover, likehe was on Tatooine all those
years he was, he was Ben Kenobi.
Of course, no relation toObi-Wan Kenobi.
Kenobi is apparently just avery it's like Smith.

(18:10):
It's a very common galacticname, I guess.
And of course, we do see Satineand Mon Mothma at his funeral
and I feel bad.
I feel like when Satine findsout that it was all just a ruse,
I feel like she smacked theshit out of him.
I feel like she would that hurt?

Speaker 3 (18:21):
We know they've been teasing their relationship so
far.
Right, they have a past and youknow padme's been there for
with anakin, you know for sinceforever and it's but it's for to
have satine, you know, broughtin immediately like, yeah, I
don't think this was like a.
It's not like when the popedies and they go through a week,
or I mean obi-wan dies, theyhad, they must have had the

(18:41):
funeral, like the next day andjust and for her to like come in
last minute notice for her dearfriend, boyfriend funeral had
to be gut-wrenching yeah, I meanand then to find out it's all
fake and find out it's all fake.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
But I, but at the same time I feel like for satine
being a politician, I thinkinitially she'd have some words
for her, her dear, her dear Obie, but I think she would get it.
I think, of of all all of thewomen in his life, I think she
would, she would be the one thatthat would get it, because I'm

(19:18):
sure that she's.
You know, she understands the,the role of political intrigue.
I mean, she herself has had togo undercover once or twice.
So I mean, yeah, I think shegets it.
I I want to talk a little bit,just briefly, about Ahsoka,
because you had mentioned Ahsoka.
You know, her, her looks likelike geez, annie, geez, oh my

(19:39):
God, master, what are you doing?
But despite all of that, therewas, there was a scene that I
felt was very powerful.
I don't know, maybe it was justmore more me than than maybe it
was meant to be, but, um, whenthey were on nal hudda, and

(20:01):
again and again he gets on hisback, but you know, he gets this
time he gets choked out, hegets put to sleep by obi-wan,
you know, and she, she didn'tsay shit, she was just like the

(20:36):
love, like that's not just apadawan protecting her master,
that's, that's familial love.
I mean, that is, maybe I'moverreacting, I don't know.
What do you guys think aboutthat?
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
I thought that scene was just beautiful thoughts no
no, I was like tony, you got oneso I mean, I that that scene is
definitely in my notes too, andI, first off, like it seems
pretty clear to me that thathappened after she did her

(21:10):
training with rex and his boys,because, like I mean, this is
going against cad bane andpresumably two other people, but
you know, at the moment cadbane's the only one actually
shooting at her, but she is likeshe's not blinking an eye,
she's just deflecting every lastshot back and like I know cat
says, like you're, you know,you're lucky that we got to get

(21:31):
out of here.
And I'm like, no, I think youguys are lucky right now.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Like she would fuck you up because she's gone.
This is not the first time thatshe's she.
She's gone toe to toe with Bane, you know, and this was this
was different, though.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Well, you know, I call my sister snips because of
our relationship and when Ahsokacame I was like that, that that
snarkiness, that banter that'sus.
And I remember when thisepisode came out, we were
watching it together and ahsokawent into beast mode and I just
looked at snips and went that'show you fight, if I ever go down

(22:13):
that is how you cry becausethat was just a great ahsoka
moment where you know she stillis a friend but you can see
their relationship growingalmost to equals.
Like Obi-Wan and Anakin weretowards the later end of his
training, where they're notstudent teacher, it's their
brothers, and with Anakin andAhsoka, the brother sister.

(22:36):
And when the brother went downthe sister just went savage.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
She really did Like and it was, it was so powerful
because she didn't, she didn'ttry to attack she was total
defend mode totally.
She was in fuck around and findout mode.
She was like you know what, youguys, come, fuck around, fuck
around and find out what's gonnahappen.
I, two weeks ago, I decapitatedfour mandalorians.
Bring it, bring it.

(23:03):
I got something for you and Igot two of them for you.
Oh, my god, and you know what?
And it's like this.
This particular scene is is oneof the reasons that I I feel
that rosario dawson capturesthat side of ahsoka just so well
.
You know she just captures thatmature, grown Ahsoka, but she

(23:29):
still has that level of loyalferocity you know where.
She will obliterate anythingand anyone in her path in order
to do what's right.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
And when you see her fight, you see rosario fighting
hayden in the in the the otherworld sequences, there's a
little bit of that.
You can see that, like she, shecan go to toe to toe.
You know, anakin's a tank, he'sa.
He swings for the fence and shecan give just as well as he can
and it's.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
It's also interesting to see that as as there, they
are very, very quickly almostbecoming equals.
And I think anakin especiallynow in season four anakin is is
really coming to trust her more,to to rely on her more, and
she's almost becoming for lackof a better term a caregiver to

(24:27):
him.
She's there to keep him out oftrouble.
You know, I mean, how manytimes have we heard, you know,
hey, keep an eye on Anakin.
You know, I mean, it's not justObi-Wan.
And you know, mace and Yoda, Imean other people have said, hey
, keep an eye on Anakin.
You know, make sure he doesn't.
You know, and yoda, I mean,other people have said, hey,
keep an eye on him again.
You know, make sure he doesn't.
You know, but and she and shedoes it like without hesitation,

(24:49):
without a second thought, andit's just such a beautiful
relationship and it just gets mechoked up because I know what's
coming and it just it hurts myheart anyway moving on.
Moving on, um, a couple ofstandout moments.
I want to know what yourstandout moments are.
I had a couple um one thisnight the uh uh, the size

(25:15):
noodles I can't talk the sizenoodles cameo where she's coming
out of the bar.
I I still just I love sizenoodles because she just
continues to live her best life.
I thought that was just great.
And the other we had a bobafett cameo which was a little
awkward.
Why do we have a child inprison with with grown folks?

(25:37):
I maybe the republic's a littlemore loosey about that sort of
thing, but it just seemed odd tome that that you've got this
young, this adolescent youngster, in prison and also who's are
some of the clones on the take,because we have those two clone

(25:58):
troopers.
Bring hardeen to go and seewhat's his name in Cad Bane and
then he called for them to takehim away.
So, like you know, the guy waslike yeah, I have a lot of
influence in here.
Does he have influence over theclone troopers?

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Well, again Palpatine's orchestrating the
plot to kidnap himself.
I could imagine he has.
Especially, I've always feltlike and I have no canon back to
basis but the Red branded yeahthey're the Imperial groupers,
yeah.
They're always around Palpatine.
I don't know if that's hisprivate detachment or whatever,

(26:40):
but when I saw them running theprison, my first thought was
okay, these guys are in on it.
You know they're there to keepthe prisoners in place.
But I have a feeling you getthe right prison guard and all
of a sudden this place isShawshank.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Right.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
The crooks are on the inside and you think about it
that way.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Even some of their brothers getting sauced in the
escape attempt didn't matter tothem yeah, yeah, and it's like
you, we, you know, we, we liketo think that the clone troopers
are all you know of, of goodmoral fiber and incorruptible,
but they're still all they'rehumans, and I think we've, we've

(27:21):
, we've pretty well establishedthat, that that we can consider
them human, with all the samestrengths and weaknesses, um,
but I, I agree, I think you have, you have a great point there.
I think that you know these, theimperial, well, not the
imperial, but the, uh, thesenate, well, they're not,
they're not even the senate ones, but uh, I know they become the

(27:43):
imperial.
You know they're, uh, you knowthe red ones, the red guys, yeah
, um, they're taking orders,maybe directly from palpatine
himself.
So if he was like, yeah, letthis guy go see this guy,
they're gonna be like, you know,you got it, sir, and then so
they might not be on the take,maybe necessarily, but uh,

(28:04):
they're just following orders,right, but could they be on the
take?
Maybe necessarily, but uh,they're just following orders,
right, but could they be on thetake, do you think?
I mean, could they be?
I think?

Speaker 3 (28:12):
that problem?
Yeah, I don't know we can be.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Uh, I mean, you know, I mean we see it, you know,
that's not that we, like youknow you talk about too much,
but I mean we see it in, youknow, in prisons, in our current
reality where, like you know,yeah, there are some people who
are underpaid and and will takeadvantage of getting a kickback
or whatever from the criminalelements on the inside to let
them get away with certain shit.

(28:38):
So, I mean, you know, in thegreater aspect of things, does
it make you wonder a little bit?
Yeah, but I wasn't surprised byit.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
All right, that's fair, I do.
I wonder now are they justfollowing orders from their
superiors, or are some of themtaking bribes?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Well, you remember, slick betrayed his own unit on
Christophsis, betrayed his ownunit on Christophsis.
I think it's fully possiblethat there could be a couple
clones, a handful of clones, abatch of clones that are for
lack of a better term on thetake with the criminal element,

(29:19):
because to them, what's thepoint?
We're bred as these disposablesoldiers for this war we didn't
start, and if somebody'soffering them a chance at maybe
getting out of this life, maybethat's a very tempting offer for
some.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, very true, because they are.
We do see how the clones, theydo become disillusioned.
They do question orders, notdirectly, butusioned.
They do question orders, notdirectly, but amongst themselves
they do question orders.
They're still driven by thesense of loyalty and brotherhood
and honor and they have theircodes.
Um, but the uh on, um Umbara,when we've got fives and Rex

(30:02):
talking about it, the clones inthe background, we're starting
to take sides amongst themselves.
You know, they were questioning, you know, krell's bullshit not
to him directly, of course,because they're still there's,
they're, they're stillstruggling with the fact that
they want to be good soldiers,but they're starting to realize

(30:22):
that they're, that there's moreto life than just that.
I, like I, I love how, how this,this series, shows the
complexity of the clones.
It's not just, they're notdroids, they're.
You know, they've got feelingsand thoughts and emotions, and
some of them have dreams.
Some of them may want a lifeafter the war.

(30:42):
They question, when the war isover, what happens to us, you
know, and I can't imagine whatthat would be like, you know,
for these men who are giving itall literally, and then to
consider that one day theirshelf life is going to reach its
expiration date.
And then what happens?
Where do we go?
What are they going to do withus?

(31:03):
Are we expendable?
We know we're expendable on thebattlefield, but when the war
is won, what happens to us, youknow, and that's got to be, it's
got to be pretty anxietyproducing for them, you know.
Oh yeah, I mean we do know thatsome of them go on to become
trainers in the stormtroopercorps, but, um, but not

(31:25):
certainly not all of them, youknow.
So, man, I love this show.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
It's got so many layers.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
It's got so many layers, um.
So the big thing I wanted totalk about too was this the
stuff that's going on between anPalpatine and the Jedi council.
You've got Jedi arrogance andlies and manipulation alongside

(31:55):
Palpatine's manipulations andlies, and in this arc we saw him
being just especially slimy andjust really getting that
disinformation out there.
It's like oh, I can't believethey don't trust you and you
know, it's just, he's justplanting these little poisonous
seeds.
So, given all of this, do youthink that anakin ever had a

(32:24):
chance of not going to the darkside?
I mean, was it at this point?
Is it just inevitable?
Forget what we know about?
You know his future, but atthis point, is he fighting
because he fights to be good?
We see that that struggle inhim, but is it pointless?

(32:44):
Like, does he have a chance atall to not turn to the dark side
?
What do you guys think?

Speaker 1 (32:52):
So, as somebody who has not seen anything beyond
what we have discussed, I thinkthe only real chance that he had
that he would have had to notend up as Vader.
Is this something similar towhat we know ends up happening

(33:12):
to Ahsoka happened to him If hejust, if something happened to
make him just walk away from theorder of Period, right, maybe
he could have had a life and nothave become Vader.
But so long as he is a Jedi, heis doomed to that path.
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Crash.
What do you think?

Speaker 3 (33:37):
There's a great line from one of the books the more
recent current canon books, Ilike it goes like that it it
matters which side we choose.
I don't turn towards the lightbecause it means someday I'll
win some sort of cosmic game.
I turn toward it because it isthe light and that was said by

(33:58):
qui-gon jinn and I think thatexemplifies.
You know, they always refer tothat fight in Phantom Menace as
the duel of the fates and laterthey came out and said the duel
was for Anakin's fate and Ithink it just shows that
Palpatine, you know, let Maulkill.

(34:20):
Qui-gon had to die.
Qui-gon would have been theperfect master for Anakin.
He would have raised him to thelight.
He would have raised him theright way, regardless of what
the Council thought and did.
So you have to kill the goodinfluence, the good little angel
on your shoulder, so that thebad little devil on your

(34:42):
shoulder can influence you onboth sides.
I think that the Jedi we'veseen already on this show and we
know later on, you know, maceWindu had reservations about
trusting Anakin and that led tothings.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
But it shows that the council screwed up in not
trusting Anakin and lying toAnakin Just almost as much as
Palpatine lying to Anakin, justalmost as much as Palpatine lies
to Anakin and manipulatesAnakin, and I think it's the two
sides playing him the wrong waythat lead him down this path.

(35:18):
I agree with Tony.
The only way he even had achance of not becoming Vader
would have been to leave theOrder and just go off with Padme
and have babies and live a life.
But I don't know if that wouldhave been enough.
I think he needed a good rolemodel, like Qui-Gon Jinn Obi-Wan
tried.
He even says I was wrong, Itried to train him, just like

(35:44):
you know.
You know I was wrong.
Qui-gon, I think, would havebeen the only one that could
have kept anakin on the straightand narrow and that's why he
had to die yeah, but I thinkqui-gon would have had to leave
with anakin.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
I don't think that he could have trained and raised
anakin properly in thatenvironment.
I think that he would have beenstopped or stymied by the
council.
Palpatine would have continuedto manipulate Like they would.
The two of them would have hadto, like straight up, dipped out
to Tatooine and been cavehermits there and studied, you

(36:20):
know, in in the living force andand then maybe when, when
Anakin was ready, then come backand assume his role as the
Chosen One, because under theinfluences that were there
currently, that was, I don'tknow Tony.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
So I agree with your sentiment.
That being said, I thinkQui-Gon and another reason why
he had to go I think Qui-Gon'sthe one person who would have
eventually seen throughPalpatine.
Oh, I think Qui-Gon and anotherreason why he had to go.
I think Qui-Gon's the oneperson who would have eventually
seen through Palpatine.
Oh, I agree 100%, no doubtabout it.
I don't think necessarilyQui-Gon would have had to dip
out.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
I think it would have ended up being Qui-Gon and
Anakin versus Palpatine, andthat would have been the battle
yeah, eventually, as opposed tomace versus palpatine, right
without getting on the sidelinebut it would have had to come 10
years later though, at leastyou know, or maybe even more,
maybe 20 years later, but yeah,I agree, that would have been a
hell of a fight.

(37:16):
That would have been a hell ofa fight.
So then I mean, really, if youthink about it, that wasn't and
I'm assuming that palpatineknows that as well.
So qui-gon being killed wasmore of an assassination than
anything else like that.
That may have been palpatine'splan the entire time, like we're

(37:36):
gonna get rid of qui-gon, thisperson who would be his, would
be anakin's anchor you knowwould have been.
You know that, that, that thattouchstone for him.
So we need to assassinate thisguy.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
I forget where I heard it, which, if it, which
book which?
But I think there were therewas.
There've been sort of rumblingsthat palpatine saw qui-gon as a
threat yeah, more so than theJedi Order as a whole.
But because Qui-Gon had adifferent philosophy about the
Force and everything that didn'tnecessarily play into

(38:13):
Palpatine's manipulation, he sawabove the BS.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, You're right, because he wasn't blinded by
arrogance.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
He didn't have that arrogance to just just think
that he knows he's right, rightjust because I'm a jedi, that
means I am all wise and allknowing and I know what's best
because the will of the forcetells me.
So you know, and it's, it'salmost like the difference
between like, uh, like, aconservative christian and a
buddhist.
You know, it's like, you know,you've got that, that attitude,

(38:49):
and you've got that arrogance onone side, but then on the other
side you've got that, that,that, that vision, that sight,
you know, that clarity thatallows you crash, like you said,
to see above and beyond all thebullshit.
You know, to cut through and toreally examine the force for
what it is.
And and we see that by qui-goncoming back you know and then

(39:14):
teaching the others how to comeback.
You know that's, that'spowerful.
I mean you talk about a pureconnection to the force.
I mean that guy had it, man whyis my boy?
qui-gon man.
He was oh, so good, so good I'm.
I wish we could have gottenmore.

(39:34):
Hopefully we'll get more.
I'd love to see more in likeanother, like tales of the jedi,
and see more of qui-gon comingup and the tales of jedi was
great with the way they, youknow, interspersed little
connections I love.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
One of my favorite episodes in that whole thing was
when Qui-Gon runs into Yaddleand Dooku at the elevator.
Yeah, which, again, you know, Iknow you're big on talking
about these things in a timelineorder.
That was a glue moment.
Phantom Menace there were gapsin the story because we go to
other places and we see otherthings To show Qui-Gon while he

(40:14):
was alive, knowing that he wasin the temple, while young
Anakin was in there and goingthrough the test and all this.
It just sort of adds that extralayer of nuance to the story
where it's not just about wherethe camera's pointing in the
movie.
There's things happening off tothe side and there's other
branches in this story that arehappening, that are relevant,

(40:37):
that you can tell later on.
In a show like Tales that justadds so much more depth to it.
I love Reistow's Howard Yaddleadds so much more depth to it.
I love, you know, Rice Stiles.
Howard Yaddle adds so much towhat was just a background
Muppet in the movie.
Right.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
And ended up giving her not just a voice but a very
important story.
You know you're talking aboutall this connective tissue, you
know, and she was a big part ofthat.
I mean she because of Yaddle.
We actually got to feel forDooku for a moment and see his

(41:11):
conflict and see his regret andhis hesitation to do these
things, but he's twisted by thatversion of the greater good.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
And it was so easy to write.
Yeah, christopher Lee is, wasis a great actor, was a great
actor and it was so easy towrite.
Christopher Lee was a greatactor and we all know him from
Lord of the Rings and all theDracula movies.
It was really easy to write offhis character as like the
spooky Sith character.
But to see that there was aconflict in him and, I dare I
say, a little bit ofjustification in the episode

(41:44):
when him and Mace areinvestigating and Mace gets the
promotion and he gets turnedaside, you almost kind of go.
That's where Palpatine got athim.
Oh, 100%, that was the plotarmor that he dug under and said
hey, the Jedi Order screwed you, come with me and we'll fix the
galaxy, we'll make it right.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Well, and Palpatine is great about'll, we'll make it
right.
Well, and, and his andPalpatine is great about this.
But using someone's painagainst them and that was
something that I really likedfrom tales as well is seeing um
Duke, who was hurt by thepassing of Qui-Gon Jinn.
I mean, he, he, he's very stoic, you know he, he's very stoic,

(42:26):
you know he's.
He is count dooku, he is thatguy.
But man, you felt it.
You, you felt that he felt thatloss and I think that was
another chink in his armor thatpalpatine was able to exploit
which is yet another reason whyqui-gon had to go.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
I mean, if qui-gon hadn't gone, palpatine might
have not gotten Dooku.
Man what?

Speaker 2 (42:47):
if you know this thing, we could talk about what
ifs all day.
But what if?
What if Dooku and Qui-Gon hadboth trained Anakin like, and
then the three of them wentafter Palpatine like whoo?

Speaker 1 (43:00):
yeah, yeah, I'd be done.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I can't imagine that.
That would be a hell of a fight.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
That would be a hell of a fight, but I mean a reality
where Dooku, qui-gon, obi-wanand Anakin are all on the same
side.
That's a wrap.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, that's a wrap.
I mean, whoever's comingtowards you, it's a wrap.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
And not to get too far ahead.
But Ahsoka.
Hugh Yang tells Ahsoka shecomes from a very unusual line
of Jedi Dooku's part of thatchain.
He trains Qui-Gon, and Qui-Gontrains over, and you go on and
on, but it's just again thepotential of that branch that,

(43:42):
had it not been broken off byPalpatine's manipulating it,
yeah, it could have drasticallychanged the story and it's just
amazing.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
It's amazing to see all these threads and how
everything is so connectedthrough the force and how
palpatine is just out there,like, like um, what is it like
in greek mythology, the fateswith you know pulling threads
and snipping threads and youknow weaving different threads
together, and palpatine's doingthat, I mean, and he's doing it

(44:13):
with master strokes and it'sjust.
If he wasn't such an asshole itwould be a pleasure to watch
him work.
But man, man, fuck you guy.
I mean you Palpatine shit.
He's just so kind of reminds meof somebody else.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Current history.
But anyway we'll get it becauseyou know, politics has no place
in star Wars.
I've been, I've actually beenseeing that a lot on like on
social media, in differentforums, different groups.
They're like keep politics outof star wars.
I don't know, it's like you,dumb motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Star wars is politics like morality tales are about
politics and doing.
You know, it's literally areyou doing right or are you doing
wrong?
And guess what, if you findyourself on the wrong side, you
can, you can't, you can't excuseit with, just say, well, your
politics are different.
No, there's a great lot ofsocial media.

(45:14):
I mean, you know, we don't.
I don't disagree with you aboutpolitics.
I disagree with you aboutmorality, yeah, and there's just
things that are right and wrongand how we, we live our lives
and we go back.
You know, do we choose, like Isaid, do we choose the light
because it's the light or do youchoose something else because
of your politics?
And Palpatine plays people'spolitics to get them to not

(45:37):
choose the light, and it's justit's.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
It's.
It's interesting too becausewhen we look at Star Wars
throughout the years, especiallythe original trilogy, you know
George was very political.
You know the original trilogy,the very first Star Wars film,
it is a cautionary tale.
It is a cautionary tale to helpus recognize what fascism looks

(46:04):
like.
It's to help us recognize whatfascism looks like.
It's to help us recognize whata dictatorship looks like.
There's a reason why the empirewas based off of certain real
life elements and why the RebelAlliance was based off of the
Viet Cong.
As we grew up watching Vietnamwar movies and things like that,

(46:26):
you know here in the us thevietcong were considered the bad
guys.
You know I grew up with that.
You know watching vietnam warmovies.
They're the bad guys.
You know our boys are the goodguys.
But in the grand scheme ofthings, you know they were a
ragtag group of individualsdefending their homeland against

(46:48):
a superior colonizing force.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
So it's like oh man, it's, it's very, it's very
complicated.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
It's like you don't, you know, my, my uncle, was a
vietnam war veteran.
You know, and you know I, I, Ican't, I can't, you know, and as
a veteran myself, I can't notthank him for his service and
his sacrifice.
A lot of our boys went overthere, not of their own, free
will, by the way, as we know,many, many, many people that
went to uh participate in that,uh, that conflict.

(47:21):
They were drafted.
You know, join the army or goto jail, go down range.
Join the army or go to jail, godown range.
Go to Vietnam or go to jail.
You know that was, that was achoice they had.
They didn't want to be there,you know, but it was, but we.
That's the thing.
That's what star Wars isshowing us.
Star Wars is showing us thatthe empire, from George's vision
, from his point of view, thatwas kind of the US, that was

(47:45):
kind of the US Empire at thetime, and our plucky band of
rebels, that was.
I mean, he even said thatGeorge has come out to say that
he based the rebels off the VietCong.
So it's Star Wars is politics.
You can't have Star Warswithout politics and lightsabers
.
You just can't.
It just doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
And the same is true with Clone Wars.
Dave's doing some masterfulstorylines in the political
realm.
The Ryloth arc was aboutliberating local people but also
a fear of being exploited byyour liberators, and we're going
to get a little not to get tooahead of the game, but we're
going to see a little taste ofthat later in Bad Batch.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Oh, and there's even more to come in Rebels.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Yeah, you guys were talking last season, that was
Lux Von Terry.
When they go to the Separatistcapital, not everybody's a big
fan of the Republic and they gotsome legitimate beefs.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
They do.
They do so it's the While withGeorge there is, there are
clearly defined lines betweenlight and dark, but it's not
always clear who the good guysare and who the bad guys are.
You know it's like Yoda saidit's always you know, or an

(49:10):
Obi-Wan you know.
It's always from a certainpoint of view, you know it.
It just it just depends, youknow.
And even even with George andwe hear that we hear that great
line, line you know, in theprequels, where obi-wan says
only a sith deals in absolutes.
You know there are really noabsolutes and that's why the

(49:31):
sith fail and that's why thejedi fail, because they kind of
pigeonhole themselves into theseabsolute light and dark sides
and that doesn't work for any ofthem.
Ever like it never works out,like you adhere to the, to the
light side.
That didn't work out.
You must adhere to the dark sidethat didn't work out, because

(49:53):
now we got the rule too and andone of them is going to kill the
other one, that's just like no,that doesn't work.
And then we see, then we seeahsoka, ahsoka's walking that
middle path.
We see much, much later on it'snot canon anymore.
But we see the Imperial Knights.
They're neither light nor dark.

(50:14):
They serve the Fel Empire, buttheir lightsabers are white,
they're neutral, and all thatand you know, these are the
things that I think georgereally wanted us to understand
is that you know, you find thatmiddle ground.
You know you, you walk thatmiddle path.
You know there's, there's lightand dark in all of us, you know,

(50:35):
and we, we, we get to see moreof that in in rebels, and rebels
gets deep, rebels gets deep,and I haven't seen all of it.
So I'm looking forward to it.
We've still got three.
We've still got three seasonsof clone wars to knock out, and
then we're going to be divinginto rebels, and I'm really
looking forward because Ihaven't seen all of rebels in
its entirety, like you know,back to back to back.

(50:58):
So I'm definitely lookingforward to that.
Um, do you guys have anything?

Speaker 1 (51:03):
I've got.
I've got a few notes here thatwe didn't go over yet.
Let's do it.
First off, another counter onthe lame naming of bad guy
characters for Moralo Eval.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
That's his name.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Just a terrible name.
Just a terrible name.
Secondly, I don't recall seeingthis character before, but I
want to see more of them.
Embo, oh yeah, we've seen himbefore.
I wasn't sure.
He reminded me of one of thecharacters from one of the
episodes from one of the lastseasons where there was a band

(51:42):
of bounty hunters.
I wasn't sure if that was thesame character or not.
It is.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
It was a very Seven Samurai type of episode where
the bandits were coming afterthe town he was one of the
bounty hunters that the localshired to fend off Hondo's gang.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
He became an instant beast mode Captain America with
a hat.
I remember when they firstintroduced him and everybody was
like this is going to be.
There's always that fan thingof who's the new fan favorite
going to be, and there was astretch where, with Clone Wars,
embo was going to be the guy youknow, the new Boba Fett, the
new boba fett, the new.

(52:23):
I know we didn't get much ofhim.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
We only got a few, a few times with him, but he's so
cool yeah, great character likehe's like.
He's like captain america, likehe did that little slide, he was
like using his hat as a sledand as a shield and he's just a
bad dude, he, because he's gotthose samurai vibes and so it
was perfect to have him in thatepisode.
That was based on the sevensamurai and we see that again in

(52:46):
the Mandalorian the TV series.
I think it's the first seasonwhen him and Cara, when when Dan
and Cara go to that little townwith the blue shrimp and they
teach them how to how to fightand all that.
That's another seven samuraitheme, but of course that's Star
Wars.
Star Wars is based off of AkiraKurosawa films and all that fun
stuff.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
So what else you got?
And then the.
And then the last big note thatI have here is it's just, it's
a plot hole, that that leads tosome other questions.
What exactly was the plan forthe original, for the real reiko
Hardeen?
Okay, so the Jedi caught himpretty quickly, knocked him out,

(53:28):
made Obi-Wan into him, but thenjust left his body laying there
.
What was the plan?
No, they took him, because thenObi-Wan finds him, turns him
into other clones who wouldpresumably go wait, we already
have this guy in custody.

(53:49):
What the fuck?
But that didn't happen.
So either they were on the takeand knew about the plane, even
though, even though anakindidn't, or what, or they're just
not asking questions.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
They're like oh, it's the jedi again, let's just take
him.
Oh, no, but, but hardeen is inguantanamo bay right now.
That's.
I mean, that's as I don't knowwhat happens to him.
I haven't looked it up and Idon't want to look it up, I
don't.
I mean, I kind of do, but I Idon't know if we see him again.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
I don't think we, they may have, they may have
held him at the jedi temple.
We saw an acolyte that they,you know they had detention
cells of their own.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
And that would make sense.
Except if they were going to dothat, why not do that there?
Why was he left for Anakin tofind?

Speaker 2 (54:31):
What if?

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Anakin didn't find him.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
That was Obi-Wan.
They had already made theswitch.
That was Obi-Wan because Anakintook him to jail.
So when he was found drunk,that was already Obi-Wan had.
Or, yeah, anakin took him tojail.
So when, when he was founddrunk, that was, that was
already.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Oh, okay, all right, in that case, nevermind, I, I
thought that was like, I thoughtthat was two separate things.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
No, no but you're not .
You're also not wrong.
We don't.
We don't really get any closureon Hardeen, on the real guy,
like where is he?
It's just like, oh well, fuckthat dude, we don't care.
Because, uh yeah, we don't.
I don't know.
I'm sure it's on a wiki,somewhere it's on wikipedia.
I'm sure we can look it up.
But, um, at the moment I don'tknow what happened to that guy.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Maybe we'll see some more of him.
I don't recall ever seeing himever again um I mean, presumably
you wouldn't, unless you knowhe's yet another one that that
they managed to escape fromprison.
But you know he's in, he's yetanother one that they managed to
let escape from prison.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
He's in some intergalactic Gitmo right now.
He's somewhere in GuantanamoBay on the Outer Rim.
That's where they got him.
They put him in the deepest,darkest place because they can't
have him talking, and that waskind of my thing Again.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
I didn't realize that they had already made the
switch and that person thatAnakin found was not actually.
I thought Anakin found theactual Hardeen after they'd made
the switch, I thought they didwhatever and just left him to
rot, as opposed to getting ridof him and replacing him right
then and there no, they took hisass out of circulation.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
They needed to.
Well, that makes sense.
But and also I'm wondering ifthat because, uh, anakin does
mention feeling a connection andonce it's revealed who obi-wan
is, you know, I'm wondering ifhe felt it in that room, which
is why he didn't really fuckinggo go ham on this guy, because
maybe he felt something wasthere you think his

(56:24):
midichlorians were kind of likehold up, hold up maybe.
Oh, and speaking ofmidichlorians, when uh hardeen
goes into the bar and that girlat the bar was like I'd like to
check his midichlorian count,that was like such a corny line,
like really like everybodyknows about midichlorians, I
really thought that it was kindof just like a jedi like thing,

(56:47):
but um, I guess any random chickat a bar knows all about
midichlorian counts and I guessthat's uh a test of virility, I
suppose she wanted a littleforce in her.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
That's all right.
Right, oh nice.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Maybe she's into the force choking.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I'm pretty sure Padme is,because she's a dummy mommy with
her breakups.
We'll talk about that thoughlater, because that was terrible
.
It was terrible.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
All right, crash, you got anything, we kind of
bookmarked around it, but I wantto know what you guys thought
about the episode with the boxchallenge, because I thought
that was the best of the art wereally didn't talk about that,
did we?
And just from, like I said,from the fact that this season

(57:37):
was hinted at about being youknow, introducing us more to the
bounty hunters of the galaxy.
I really thought this was a youknow, after a story arc like
Krell, where it's focused aboutclones, I thought that was a
great the whole plot thing of.
Okay, now we're going to dabblein the lives of bounty hunters
and we're going to drawdifferent.
It's almost like that classiclineup from Empire Strikes Back

(58:00):
where we knew about Bosk andIG-88.
There was this group ofunaffiliated bounty hunters who
have to learn how to work as ateam and, to your point, I think
, obi-wan doing you know, weknow the sniper case was miked,
but I think just the fact thathe was doing so well in the

(58:20):
early tests I think that was thefirst eyebrow raise for Dooku,
that something was shady.
And you can see it in his facewhere he's like, oh, the new guy
keeps doing well.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
And he keeps saving people, and he keeps saving
people.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Because, like they say later on, obi-wan the Jedi
can't help themselves.
Even Obi-Wan undercover hecouldn't let bounty hunters die
in a death match, because it'sjust not in his nature.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
That was something that I considered, because when
he drops down and finds apathway underneath, part of my
mind is going.
Obviously we know Cad Bane's agiant thorn in the side.
He's done a lot of bad shitalready.
We know he's going to do morefor sure.
Outside of Embo.
I'd never heard of most of theother characters, but again,
they're all bounty hunters.

(59:14):
They've all done some bad shit.
All Obi-Wan had to do was notsay anything and just crawl away
and they'd all be gone rightnow.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Very true, very true.
All away and they'd all be goneright now.
Very true, very true.
I did feel that um eval wastrying a little too hard to kill
everybody, because it's likemotherfucker, you still need
five people for this job youstill need a notions team and
you're trying to off half ofthem.
Right, and he's like yeah, don'tworry, the next one, we'll
definitely kill people.
It's like dude, fucking, relax.

(59:46):
I mean, you still need somedudes to pull this fucking.
Yeah, like you said, it's anoceans movie, it's a.
It's a heist, it's a caper.
You still need your, your crewand you're letting.
You're letting your ego get thebetter of you.
But I agree, I thought it was agreat episode.
I like that.
It was something different.
It was you know we're seeinghow the underworld operates.

(01:00:10):
You know just how and howlittle Dooku thinks of any of
these people.
You know you're all just toolsfor me to achieve my master's
ambitions, you know, and agendas, so I don't give a fuck who
wins.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
I just need five of you pieces of shit to go do my
job and presumably, if, if youknow, I have to imagine that
duke's plan was, if more thanfive survived, somebody was
going to get killed.
Yeah, well, like anybody thatthat was not chosen was going to
get killed, because you can'trisk, you know, a loose, loose
lip well, and they and they saidthat um, you've all said that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
He said that you know any anyone who's left over?
And you'll be silenced for theprotective of the plan right,
yeah, so because when they go tothe final round, we've got six
people and I was like, oh, Ifeel bad for one of you, um, yes
, but I do find it interesting.
Um.

(01:01:09):
Another really good point aboutthis episode, um, is that we we
actually get to see some of cadbane's morality yes you know
and I thought that wasinteresting because he's not
like this unscrupulous, amoralbastard.
He has a code.

(01:01:29):
He wants to fight somebodystraight up, he wants to look a
Jedi in the eye.
He's not impressed that youjust sauced a Jedi with a sniper
rifle.
You want to impress me?
Do it face to face, toe to toea jedi with a sniper rifle.
You know you want to impress me.
Do it face to face, toe to toe.
You know you're not going touse all these little, the little
tricks from the box to fightthis guy.

(01:01:50):
You're going to do it like aman and he saves obi-wan who he
hated the whole time he didn'twant to bring him along, he
hated him on the trip.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
He wanted to ditch him the first time and then, by
the time, you know, becauseobi-wan, you know, by solving
the first couple puzzles hesaved his ass.
He did, and I think there was alittle bit of respect there by
cabane and it showed a littlebit of weakness in marvel, where
it was just like okay, you maybe this grand strategist, but
you don't have a, you don't havea code, you don't have any

(01:02:22):
honor, even among thieves, rightyeah, right, and I think that
that's that was interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Cad bane is still very much a bastard and he will
still.
He'll save your life today anddrill you in the gut tomorrow
and double cross you for somecredits but you'll see it coming
and and that's the thing.
You may not see the double cross, but you'll see.
When he points that, thatblaster at your gut and, like he

(01:02:52):
said, fills you full of holes.
So I have I have a a bit morerespect for cad bane and he is
still, in my opinion, thegreatest bounty hunter in the
galaxy he like to to date.
To date he is still a superiorbounty hunter to to boba fett.
Boba fett got all the attention, but bane is superior to boba

(01:03:15):
fett in every way if jango hadlived, who do you think would be
the alpha?
bane.
Okay with, without a doubt,because I I think with the Fets.
The Fets are, I don't thinkthat they are necessarily as
ruthless.

(01:03:36):
They are both of them, djangoand Boba alike.
They are cool, they are smooth,they are calculating, they are
smart.
They are.
They are cool, they are smooth,they are calculating, they are
smart.
They are very, very good atwhat they do.
They also have their codes ofhonor.
Um, whether that comes from amandalorian code, we still don't

(01:03:56):
know, because we still haven'thad any confirmation that j.
I mean, we've got a, that thatbroken chain code, and that's
pretty much all we have.
No one has really come out tosay that the fango was in the
following right, right.
So non-canon sources?

(01:04:17):
Yes, we, we have he.
He was in fact a mandalorian,but you know.
But anyway, um, I think, at theend of the day, I think cad
bane would come out on top.
I think that he is.
The fets are more noble, ifthat makes sense.
They're scoundrels, but theyhave this, they have this sense

(01:04:38):
of nobility about them.
They're almost like.
They're almost like ronin, Iwould say.
They are masterless samurai,you know they are.
They are knights that don'tnecessarily have, you know, they
don't serve a king, you know,but they still have this, this
code in some way.

(01:04:58):
And cad doesn't really havethat.
You know, he has his own moralcode and but it's more his ego.
He's like I'm not a littlebitch that's gonna snipe someone
.
You know, I'm the big dog, I'mgonna take you out eye to eye,
but I I I did watch last week'sepisode.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
When I was away last week at megacon I did watch the
episode.
I liked it.
You finally a little chink inyour armor with Mandalorians.
Pre-vizsla Cad Bane's almostpre-Vizsla he doesn't have that
code.
He does not have that.
Pre-vizsla is all about thewarrior side of Mandalorian but

(01:05:39):
he doesn't have the balance ofthe nobility of Mandalorians
that others do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
And the thing with pre pre visla, I think he's
another one where his intentionswere just, but he got lost
along the way and straight upbecame a terrorist.
You know, like he, I think thehe has a twisted version of the
mandalorian code of honor, youknow, but it's just.

(01:06:09):
He's so far gone and he's been.
He's been manipulated by dookuand palpatine as well, you know.
And the other, and you know, soit's, you know, yeah, so he's,
yeah, that guy, fuck that guy.
He gets what he gets and I'mhappy about that, but fuck that
guy.
But at the end of the day, ifyou're talking about the baddest
bounty hunter in the galaxy,it's Cad Bane, 100%, because

(01:06:33):
he's the only one who's stillworking.
You know we and we he's stillalive.
I know the events at the end ofyou know the mandalorian, you
know he's, he's still kickingthat dude's still alive.
And boba fett is semi-retired.
You know he's kind of retiredinto a life of.

(01:06:54):
You know a leisurely crime Lord, just kind of hanging out
kicking it.
And yeah, it's, you know,interesting.
You know, before we wrap up,I've watched um the uh.
A couple of days ago I watchedthe clip with, uh, boba Fett
fighting the storm troopers.
When we see him in theMandalorian and um, first he's

(01:07:18):
you know he's doing it with thisgaffy stick, and then he sees
his armor inside din's ship, andthen we see him again, he's
like fully kitted up and he justfucking wrecks everybody and
it's like that's the boba fettthat everyone wanted.
But then we do end up seeing adifferent side of him where it's

(01:07:39):
like, you know he, he did whathe had to do in that moment and
it's like he did.
He's not soft, but he doesn'tnecessarily want to be that guy
anymore.
You know, doesn't mean he can'tdo it Like don't you know he's,
don't don't mistake his, hiskindness for weakness.
You know, don't mistake hiskindness for weakness.

(01:07:59):
Just because he's not going tofucking put a saber dart in your
eye right now, that doesn'tmean he won't do it later.
It'd be interesting to see howCad Bane would respond to being
chucked down a sarlacc for acouple months.

Speaker 3 (01:08:16):
That's a life-altering moment for him.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
I will say that had that been Cad in the belly of
the beast, he wouldn't havesurvived.
There's no way.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
The armor is what saved him, just mentally.
You're right, cad Bane, he'sstill living the life because
that's all he knows and that'sall he wants.
Boba, we're getting way offtopic here.
I know Bob what wanted out.
I think we wanted out maybebecause his dad wanted more for
him than just being another himright, yeah right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Boba kind of reminds me like a john wick type
character, or it's the.
I've had my moments, I've beenthe badass.
I don't want to do that anymore.
But if you push me, it's allstill there and I will bring it
to force yeah, I agree 100.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
I think that at this he's at that point in his life
where he's made it.
This is like I know a lot ofpeople were upset about.
You know, we got to see bobafett in the mandalorian being
boba fett, being the fuckinghardcore badass that we always
knew that he was.
But then in the book of bobafett we see him so much more, I

(01:09:26):
guess, docile, you know, stillvery capable, of course, but
it's just not.
He just doesn't want to be thatguy anymore.
He wants to fucking retire.
I think he deserves it.
I mean, dude, has gone throughsome shit.
I just I do hope, and I don'tknow if it'll happen or not, but
I would love, love, love, loveto see a scene between boba fett

(01:09:52):
and han solo.
I just want, I want to see themin a cantina somewhere.
I want to see harrison ford andtem just at a bar, boba fett,
han solo, just two oldadversaries having a drink, and

(01:10:13):
I don't know.
There's a in one of the books.
There's a cool scene like that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
Um well, in one of the books, boba gives him a
gauntlet.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
He gives him mandalorian weaponry, for you
know, because it's like he's,he's, it's like I caught you,
but you're still the one thatgot away, you know.
So it was just god.
I would, even if it's a short,even if it's not even a part of
anything else, I would just loveto see the two of them together
in the same scene, sitting at abar somewhere.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
Harrison, if you're watching, because we know you're
watching if you could do RedHulk you could do.
We'll do a Tales.
Just come and do some voicework.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Tales of the Bounty Hunters.
It can be one episode, just thetwo of them.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
No, I want and I know he doesn't want to do it.
I want and I know he doesn'twant to do it.
I want live action.
And Harrison, I know he doesn'twant it.
He's wanted Han Solo dead sinceEmpire Strikes Back.
He's wanted him dead and I getit.
I understand, harrison, we loveyou.
But I'm telling you, man FordMorrison at a bar in their gear

(01:11:18):
gear, just for one scene, evenif it's like a post credit scene
, just do it Just doing the like.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
the dark night rises like across the bar, just like
the head nod, you know like okay, it's over.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Even that would be great.
Yeah, you know, han raises hisglass, fett just does his, his
infamous nod fade to, just doeshis infamous nod Fade to black
Done, the Star Wars fandom wouldfucking implode.
I promise you it would be animplosion.
It would be like the Death Starexploding and then imploding.

(01:11:55):
It would be like one of JangoFett's seismic charges.
That's what would happen to thefandom.
It's like ah, you know what?
I'm gonna reach out to dave.
Let's reach out to feloniousand uh and say come on, dave,
can you please make this happen?

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
everybody, just get on your phones, let's text dave
right now and just make thishappen, make this this happen.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
You need to make this happen, make this happen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
I mean, we need to find a convention where both of
them are there and we can justshoot it ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
It's fine, that's fine.
But Harrison doesn't doconventions.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
We were talking about this Snips and I were talking
about this on the way back fromMegacon.
I love Harrison Ford hasreached a point in his life
where he don't give F, like eventhese people doing the Captain
America press tour.
They're giving him some kind ofsilly softball questions and
you can just tell he's like youknow well, did you feel silly
doing the motion capture?

(01:12:52):
I saw it and he goes it'scalled money, that's what the
money's for.
That's what the money's for.
That's what the money's for.
I think, yeah, he's got thatvery casual matter-of-factness.
That's great.
But I don't know if he would,he or we or collectively all of

(01:13:13):
us could emotionally survive.
You've all seen those people inline at cons that ask this
silly question and got it in theand they got to tell their life
story for like 45 minutes.
You know it's like the bro,wouldn't I?
I would need weed to survive.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Being in line with these people would just there
would be a lot the, the.
It would be rivers of nerdtears because harrison would not
have the patience.
He's a nice guy, but he's afucking smart ass.
He is a.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
He is harrison, fucking ford and and half the
comments afterwards would be hewas so glad.
You know, he just brushed meoff.
Well, yeah, you acted like adummy in front of him, right?

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
just be cool, just say, hey, how's it going?
Can you sign this?
Great job.
Loved you and everything you'vedone.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
I know we're all about the positive energy and I
try to be like even at cons Itry to be supportive of people
when you see them and they'regetting all.
It's exciting to meet thesepeople.
Ron Howard was at Megacon and Iwas just there for a phone call
.
I was just there for a phonecall.
I was giddy because I'm like Ilove his work, but you just got
to again.
if you're listening, if you'renew to the concert, let me

(01:14:25):
explain.
When you meet these people,Ashley Exide does this great
breathing exercise where youtake a deep breath for three
seconds, hold it, let it out,have a little mantra, do it a
couple times, Chill the F outwhen you meet these people in
public, because they're justpeople like us.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
Ashley's a rare one, though I mean she's she really
does know how to connect withthe fans, because she herself is
a fan.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
And we were talking about before the show.
She is so good to the peoplethat come see her because she
appreciates them and I thinkwith clone wars the whole cast
james matt ashley d.
When they're out on the circuityou can kind of tell they're
not on the level of a mark orgod help us a.
Harrison carrie was great.

(01:15:15):
He was our everybody's crazyand we call her the space mom.
Yeah, I firmly believe thatwhen we lost Carrie to the force
, ashley is the new space mombecause she's a.
She's a accepted fandom andjust welcome them in and she
takes care of them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
She's our big sister.
I feel like she's likeeverybody's or she snips, big
sister, little sister, she snips, you know she's.
But you're right, carrie wasthe crazy aunt that everyone
wants to hang out with.
Like she's.
Like she's the one that youwould get your first sip of beer
from.
Like you know, without yourparents about it.
You know, yeah, and Carrie gotme drunk.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
I got a photo with her and Mark Hamill and she just
grabs my arm like arm and justwrap me around her.
In between the two of them I'mlike in a headlock from Carrie
Fisher.
I'm just going.
This is the greatest moment ofmy life Of course I.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Only I never got to meet her, but I did get to see
her at Celebration Europe.
She did a panel or she was upon stage, I think she was up on
stage with Mark and it was verycool.
It was very, very cool.
So she'll tell us she'll alwaysbe royalty.
All right On that note, do youguys?

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
have anything else about these episodes.
No, it was a good arc.
If we were giving blast report,I would say this was a very
solid story arc I agree, I agree, we've got.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
We've got some more coming up.
We've got some more coming up.
So, homework, homework, alittle bit different this week,
a little bit different this week, a little bit different this
week for homework.
So you're going to be watching,in this order, episode one,
tales of the empire Episode oneis very important, just that.
And then you're going to watchclone wars, season four, episode

(01:16:52):
19, 20, 21 and 22.
So we've got a little extra,we've got five episodes to watch
this week and that'll wrap ourseason, uh, next week.
But, um, so, remember tales ofthe empire, episode one.
Go no further than that.
Just tells him episode one,because it ties in directly,
chronologically, with clone wars, episode 19 through 22.

(01:17:13):
So there you go, um, and, ofcourse, uh, while you're after
you do all that, catch up on allof our past episodes, be sure
to tell your friends, tell yourenemies, to give us a listen or
to give us a watch on YouTube orlisten to whatever podcast
platform you like.
And, of course, now it is timefor the obligatory pimping that
that Tony has been so subtlyhinting at.

(01:17:35):
It's on my notes, I've got it.
I've got it.
I've got it.
But thank you for reminding me,because sometimes I do forget,
um.
So, yeah, check us out on allthe social medias, primarily
youtube and tiktok at the swsshow, and be sure to subscribe
to our podcast and to ouryoutube channel.
And if you'd like to get someof that swell merch that you see
t to the only wearing rightthere, head on over to our

(01:17:56):
website circleofnerdscom.
I need to do a little bling uphere on the screen.
Uh, circle of nerdscom, slashmerch and you can grab some
t-shirts, some hoodies, all thatgood fun stuff.
I got a hoodie, I lost it.
I don't know what happened toit, so I got to order another
one, which is fun, first try.

(01:18:17):
Yeah, I have them labeled thistime.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
So I just finally got her out of the labeling nice
only after like 30 episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
30 episodes, it's fine, all right, uh, so yeah.
So check us out on the website.
You can also see what's comingup.
I'm thinking I'm gonna put ourthe full chronological timeline
up on the website.
So I mean it's going to be, Imean everything.
It will show everything inorder.
For the most part, with clonewars, we're kind of out of the

(01:18:48):
weeds of jumping around.
There's still a few episodes,but there's still going to be
some other things mixed in.
So I think maybe I'll put thatfull roadmap up and maybe break
it down for our seasons.
I don't know, we'll see.
I say I'm going to do thingsand I don't do them because I I
forget or I end up playingfallout meanwhile, this video
will be available on youtube injune ish, ish, god, shut up, man

(01:19:14):
.
I know, I know I'm like fiveepisodes behind, I know, I know
I'm so bad, okay, if?

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
anybody's watching on the YouTube.
I am the G Cricket.
I'm the one posting in thecomments on the episodes.
I don't.
I'm like oh, I missed thisepisode.
I got to talk to the guys inthe comments that one guy we
were having a live stream battlewith.
If you want to come at me, bro,I'm always in the comments on
the youtube, have fun yeah, thatguy hasn't come back, so, but
we also haven't posted anythingsince then, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
So, everyone, thank you so much for tuning in the
this week or whenever you'reyou're finally listening to this
when I finally get it uploaded.
Um, we absolutely do, thank you.
We know that you could spendyour time anywhere else and you
choose to spend it with us.
So, thank you, thank you somuch and, of course, as always,
a very special tip of the hat toour veterans and active duty
military members for theirservice and their sacrifice.

(01:20:02):
So, thank you so much for that.
And, as always, star Wars,remember if no one does anything
nice for you, do something niceto yourself and we will see you
next week.
Yeah, next week, maybe, allright, it's going to be going
very interesting.
Episode next week maybe, allright, it's gonna be a good one.
Very interesting episode nextweek.

(01:20:22):
I think we've got some, uh,we've got some, uh, some some
death of mary witches happeningnext week.
Nice, yeah, we've got some.
We've got some stuff going onwith the brothers mall, so
interesting, interesting,interesting.
So tune in for that, do yourhomework and we'll see you next
week.
So tune in for that, do yourhomework and we'll see you next

(01:20:42):
week.