Clone Wars Rewatch-Season 4: Episodes 19-22

Darth Maul lives—and he's angrier than ever. The Season 4 finale of The Clone Wars pulls no punches, as we explore Maul’s brutal return, the fall of the Night Sisters, and the shifting moral code of Asajj Ventress.

In this episode, we unpack:
 – Maul’s transformation from silent killer to tragic monster
 – Savage Opress and the twisted bond of blood
 – Zombie warriors, green mist magic, and Talzin’s dark powers
 – Ventress' surprising redemption—and team-up with Obi-Wan

Revenge, trauma, found family, and total destruction—this is Star Wars at its darkest.

Follow us on social media @TheSWSShow. Once we get our poodoo together, you'll find show clips, behind-the-scenes shenanigans, Star Wars news, memes, updates, and more!

For full episodes to include pre and post-show randomness, join our Inner Circle at patreon.com/circleofnerds

For questions about affiliate opportunities, guest booking, public appearances, or collaboration, reach out to us at [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right Coming up this week bad guys helping good
guys, bad guys fighting bad guys, bounty hunters, sith Night
sisters you know what's comingnext Dogs and cats living
together, Mass hysteria.
All of that and more.
This was one hell of a seasonfinale, and we have some bonus.
Tales of the Empire All thatand more this week.

(00:25):
It's a a lot.
We've got a lot to unpack.
Boys, all right, let's run itall right.
Hey there, star warriors.
Welcome to star wars safe space.
You're not toxic, low sodiumstar wars show.
That doesn't make you feel badfor not knowing that sam went
All right.
Hey there, star Warriors.
Welcome to Star Wars.
Safe Space.
Your non-toxic, low-sodium StarWars show.

(00:46):
That doesn't make you feel badfor not knowing that Sam Witwer,
who provided the voice for ourman Darth Maul, is also the
voice of Palpatine and portrayedStarkiller in the Force
Unleashed games and was onBattlestar Galactica.
He is a certified nerd and ifyou think you know more about
Star Wars than Sam does, you aresorely mistaken.

(01:09):
You are.
I don't think George Lucashimself knows more about Star
Wars than Sam does.
Maybe Dave Filoni Maybe, Idon't know All right.
So whether you're a hardcoreStar Wars fan or just a little
swarzy curious.
This is your Star Wars safespace, so welcome.
We are the Circle of Nerds andwe do absolutely love Star Wars,
even if we don't always like it.

(01:31):
So let's meet the crew, shallwe so?
Pilot of the infamous ParmaFlyer.
It's Crash.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Hey everybody, S-Foil's locked and let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
I don't know if I want to fly with someone named
crash.
That seems counterintuitive but, I survive.
Very true, it's like calling asurvive.
Well, yeah, yeah, another happylanding, and from parts unknown
.
It is t to the oni, oni, oniwelcome back to the galaxy,

(02:05):
everybody aka jedi master baloni.
We haven't used that in a whilewe have not right and I'm sorry
, all right.
So what are we doing?
Well, very simple.
We are on a mission to watchall of the canon star wars films
and tv shows in chronologicalorder, breaking them down,

(02:27):
connecting the dots and learninga bit more about star wars, and
maybe even about ourselves.
So if you're, uh, ready to goon this ride with us and jump to
light speed, please be warnedall you would be star warriors.
There will be spoilers, sowe're going to get into it.
We've got a lot to unpack.
So this week we are again.
We're talking about season 4,episode 19 through 22, plus

(02:52):
episode 1 of tales of the empire, which slots right in there
between episode 19 and 20.
So it's's episode 19, and thenepisode one, tales of the Empire
, and then we've got 2021-22.
Well, before we get into it,crash, you said you've got some

(03:13):
news for us.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Right now, star Wars Celebration Japan is starting to
take shape and, if you'repaying attention, or if you're
lucky enough that you want to beable to head out there, the
guest lineup is starting to takeshape Alan Tudyk, anthony
Daniels, ashley Eckstein a lotof the regulars that you see at
celebrations the last few yearsDiego Luna and Oscar Isaac what

(03:36):
Kymir?
I can't ever say his last name.
Great dude Can't say his lastname.
Anyways, they're all going andas you get closer to the artwork
, the exclusive artwork for theconvention, some of those were
released.
I posted one on our Facebookgroup.
You know us, we love thatUmbara arc and I saw that one

(04:00):
and it was just like damn, joe.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Crony, I'm buying somebody else's work for once.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Um, the badge artwork looks great.
Very, very japanese century.
You know there's a lot of style, japanese style artwork being
incorporated into it.
If you get a chance, go on theofficial website, look it up.
There's some really great stuffyou'll you'll find something
for your wall, trust me um, keeptalking about it.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
I'm gonna try to grab it.
Keep keep talking.
Look it up, there's some reallygreat stuff.
You'll find something for yourwall.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Trust me, keep talking about it.
I'm going to try to grab it.
Keep talking, I'm going to grabit and pull it in.
If you haven't been to a StarWars celebration before, a lot
of times there's so manyexclusives that it's hard to
keep up with the artwork's great.
You start to meet some of thenew artists that work regularly
with Lucasasfilm.
I'm a big joe caroni fan.
I've been friends with him foryears.
Uh, on one of my other wallsI've got one of his prints from,
uh, the chicago con.

(04:50):
It was a rogue one.
Uh, my, my crush for jenner, sothere was no bounds.
I finally bought the big printof that.
It's up there.
Um, immediately, you know theactors from the shows.
Like I said, said Ashley is allover the place.
Celebration brings out the bigguns.
If you're a Star Wars fan, yeah, that's the Umbara one.

(05:11):
There it is.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
That is gorgeous All of our podcast listener.
I'm sorry you can't see this,but do head over to our YouTube
channel and you can check thisout.
As you you know, we do love,love, love, love the umbara arc
and this I mean that is justabsolutely gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
I can't.
I didn't catch the name of theguy who did it though I when I
posted I just copy pasted, but Imean that I want to look up his
other.
His other work is this is justbeautiful yeah, it looks like
joe hogan joe, that's it, joehogan the name of the artist.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
I think that's what's on there joe hogan okay, um so,
yeah, all right, that's uh.
God, I wish I could go.
I've always wanted to go tojapan and to go to celebration
in japan.
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
I wouldn't come back I did and london was a big deal
for my family went with me, mysister and I.
We went to the convention.
We left mom and dad at thehotel and said, okay, we're
going.
We came all the way to europe,we're still going to star wars
convention and I mean, they'rejust a blast yeah, I my my first
and only celebration uh wasgermany, so that was.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
That was really really cool and I was.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
I was rocking my my rex and, uh, I dropped my helmet
twice once once about likemaybe 20 minutes before the
costume contest and a collectivegasp from everybody around you,
because once you hear thatplastic crunching sound,
everybody knows what that meansit was, yeah, like I had been.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
I had been in rex since about seven o'clock in the
morning and I had meant to,like you know, kit down, but
because of the way the panelswere lined up and there was
there were different photo opsand things like that, I, I just
and the the costume contest waslater on in the day, I was
dehydrated, I was fatigued, Ithe, and the helmet that I have

(07:07):
is one of um is one of the backoff helmets from kevin weir of
um imperial armory, which thefinest clone armor on planet
earth bar none.
If so, this he does not sponsorus in any way, but, um, do
check out kevin weir's.
You will not find fineranimated clone trooper armor

(07:28):
anywhere on planet earth.
I promise you that, um.
But uh, I was, you know, withother buckets.
You know you can hold itanywhere and it's fine, but
because it has the back off mod,it's it's meant to seal tighter
on your neck.
So when you put it on the backof, it is held on with like a
piece of velcro and it pops openso it can get onto your, your

(07:48):
melon, and then it snaps backinto place with magnets, because
with other buckets you can seeup into the bottom, but of
course in clone wars that's likeeverything is snug to the neck.
Um, so I was again.
It was at my.
The first drop happened at thecarrie fisher panel.
I grabbed the back of it andthe velcro pulled loose and the

(08:08):
whole thing just hit the ground.
No, no damage.
I was like all right, cool.
So I put it back and then, likewe were outside getting some
fresh air and I did the, I didthe same thing again and the the
little frankenstein bolts thatare on rex's helmet, those
popped off.
So I had to run the hotel, getthe glue gloom back on and I was

(08:32):
able to make the contest, likewith like 10 minutes to spare,
if that.
And I got second place, so nice, behind an incredibly stupid,
accurate boba fett, an esb boba,um, but he's a good guy, he was
, he's a, he's a member of the,the, uh, the british garrison.

(08:52):
Uh, super cool guy.
And you know, I mean, if you'regonna, if you're gonna lose
first place to anybody, I'm, I'mgood that it's boba.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
So my pilot costume.
I had a helmet.
I had a gold leader shadowsquashing colors helmet A little
easier to carry.
I never wore mine.
I always had it in the NASApromo photo tucked under the arm
.
I always had to hear what wasgoing on at events.
Once you put those things on,it is like radio silence.

(09:23):
I'd always have it tucked undermy arm, or a lot of times I just
left it at home.
You know, the beauty of therebel pilots was, yeah, we don't
have to have our helmets on.
So I was like you know.
I remember when we did acelebration orlando, and it was,
you know, the big group photoday, everybody's in their best
gear.
And afterwards I was like, okay, I'm gonna walk two blocks down

(09:44):
to our hotel strip into streetclothes and come, I had to take
a rickshaw back.
I was so exhausted from thehumidity and the hike, I was
just like no man, I'm notwalking back.
I'll pay the 20 bucks the kid.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
This guy can pedal me oh, yeah, yeah, I, I'm actually
thinking about putting togethera rebel pilot, because I've got
it, I've got a tie pilotalready and I'm kind of, you
know, because of modern dayevents, I've really become kind
of disillusioned with the empire.
You know, most people are drawnto the empire because they just
look cool, you know?

Speaker 2 (10:16):
oh, I was supposed to have a tie pilot.
Yeah, my first costume wassupposed to be a tie pilot and
for various reasons it turnedinto a death star trooper.
Which turned into I never wearit.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Which turned into I like the orange better yeah,
yeah, and that was that was mine, that mine was, mine was a um,
the uh, um imperial crewman,because it's just, it's
basically the tie pilot, butwithout the, the bucket and the,
the chest box and all that.
Yeah, so did that while I waswaiting on the purchase of the

(10:47):
bucket and the, the chest piece,um, but yeah, it was, it was.
It's cool.
I mean, that's the thing.
You know, bad guy gear alwayslooks cool.
But now I'm kind of like, oh,I'm kind of, you know, leaning
more towards the, uh, the, theplucky rebels, and you know
their sense of hope.
Because, brothers and sisters,guys and gals and non-binary

(11:11):
pals, do we need a little hoperight now?
Yes, we do All right.
We do.
What's that?

Speaker 2 (11:20):
We're going to hope we should get into this episode.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yes, we should.
Yes, we should.
One more bit of news we do havea brand new Facebook group.
So if you would like to join usthere, just look for our
Facebook group.
It's just called Swarzy CuriousS-W-A-R-S-Y Curious, and you'll
find us there.
It is a private group and weare wanting to keep it, um, very

(11:45):
, very, uh tightly maintained.
We don't want, uh, these salty,toxic, fandom menace folks in
there.
So, if you enjoy the show, ifyou, or if you know, if you
don't listen to the show I don'tknow how you're going to find
out about this without listeningto the show but, uh, if you
just want that non-toxic, lowsodium star wars environment

(12:06):
where you can be free to askquestions and people aren't
going to make you feel like anidiot, you know you can talk
about how much you love theacolyte and no one's going to
make you feel bad for it.
You can, you know you canmisquote something.
You can, you know, misrepresentsomething you know, not on
purpose, of course.
Don't misrep something.
You can, you know, misrepresentsomething you know, not on

(12:26):
purpose, of course, don'tmisrepresent anything.
But you know, if you say, youknow leia was in cell block, you
know, ab25, it's okay.
It's okay, someone will correctyou, um, but but not make you
feel stupid for not knowing it.
So again, star wars, safe space, uh is is for folks that just

(12:48):
legit need uh a safe space to uhto hang out.
You know, and talk about starwars their way, without hate.
Without hate, you can critique,of course, always critique, but
you don't have to shit onpeople because they don't
believe the same things that youdo.
So exactly.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
You're allowed to have your own opinions.
You're allowed to have your ownhot takes.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Just don't show anybody else's, absolutely 100,
all right.
So let's get into it.
Man, we do have a lot to unpack.
So this was two arcs kind ofwoven together.
Uh, I would say they're.
They're.
They're two separate ish arcs,but they are so.

(13:34):
But we get to see.
We, this is our first, uh, ourfirst look at um, um, morgan
Ellsworth, uh and uh, thetragedy of of her and uh, the
rest of, uh, her clan, um, and Iassume the mountain clan as
well, maybe, but then again,maybe not, because the mountain
clan they were kind of, uh, shewas kind of on her, uh, on her

(13:57):
business.
So so we're looking at massacre, path of Path of Fear and
Bounty.
Those were kind of the onesthat kind of go together.
So we're seeing that and if youguys have anything that you
want to talk about, definitelyjump in, because these were all

(14:19):
very, very heavy episode.
So the order that you reallywant to watch these is episode
19, then tales of the empire,episode 1, and then 20, 21 and
22, in that order, and thenyou'll get that whole, that
whole nice story there.
Um, we, we are seeing a.

(14:40):
We're seeing dooku throwing atemper tantrum, basically
because he got embarrassedPretty much he got embarrassed.
So he wants Asajj dead, hewants Mother Talzin dead, he
wants the Night Witches wipedout.

(15:02):
But is that because he wasembarrassed or is it because he
knows what kind of a threat theyare to him?
What do you guys think?

Speaker 3 (15:14):
I mean, I think it's a little bit of column a, I
think it's more column B.
Yeah, I mean, my onlyfrustration with with Duku in
this particular thing is you cansay, oh, she betrayed me.
She betrayed me, dude, youbetrayed her first.
Like yeah, like what the fuckman?

Speaker 1 (15:34):
and it's.
That's pretty typical bullybehavior, though, right, I mean
they don't, uh, they don't wantto.
You know they, they want topile it, but as soon as you
start trying to make a comeback,they're like no, no, no, we
can't have that.
But we got to see the voodoostuff.

(15:58):
I mean, the voodoo stuff wasmaking me, I was laughing my ass
off.
I mean, that was, it's like youdon't, you don't expect it.
Sherry and I were watching thisand even sherry was like whoa
wait, what?
What?
Um, daca we had zombie nightsisters, can we just please talk

(16:19):
about the absolute terror ofzombie night sisters please?

Speaker 2 (16:25):
yeah, it was kind of an interesting new twist.
You know, we've always had thisconcept of the force and this
energy field that connectsliving things, but after they're
dead you sort of assume, likewe all kind of believe, like
that's sort of the end of thatcycle.
Apparently for the nightsisters they can dabble in

(16:46):
things that some would considerunnatural and it's interesting
to watch us.
You know you were saying withdooku acting like a bully.
Remember, he's the apprentice,he's the number two ego, he's
the number two in thisrelationship.
But I think in these episodesyou see him trying to flex his

(17:11):
authority, his ownership of theConfederacy, and I think it was
a lot of.
He's making deals with MotherTaliesin behind Palpatine's back
and I think when she's startingto become a player in the Clone
Wars, that's going to rufflePalpatine's feathers eventually

(17:35):
and I think that's why I think alot of this was just taking a
player off the board.
Ventress was sort of collateraldamage.
Take my kid to work day.
She was never really a Sithapprentice, she was always sort
of just a Force-sensitiveassassin, mm-hmm.
And when he turned on her andbetrayed her and you know all of

(17:57):
this started, you know it wasreally.
You could tell this was Dookutrying to preserve his place in
the hierarchy, to borrow DwayneJohnsonism.
You know he's the number two,he's the apprentice to, you know
Palpatine.
And it's just like okay, thesechicks step that a line, I'm

(18:21):
gonna send grievous and thedroids and we're just gonna wipe
them off the board.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, and that's exactly what happened,
unfortunately, um, despite that,I mean and you bring up a good
point about their, uh, theirmagic you know obviously that
it's, it's in some wayforce-based, but, um, when they
reanimated those corpses youknow, I think that you know the

(18:45):
the, those ladies had moved oninto the force or whatever it is
that they believe it's justthey're rotting corpses that
were left.
It was terrifying, but it wasvery interesting.
It's interesting to see otherpeople in the galaxy wield this
power in a different way and,arguably, in a potentially more

(19:10):
powerful way.
But it's it also.
I mean, it's kind of a giveaway.
You can find it.
Just follow the green mist andthen there you go.
So it's not I mean otherpractitioners of the force, it's
it also.
I mean it's kind of a giveaway.
You can find it.
You just follow the green mistand then there you go.
So it's not I mean otherpractitioners of the force, it's
invisible, you don't see it.
It's just all of a suddenyou're getting choked out.
But yeah, with the, with thenight sisters, you can kind of
follow them back to their, theirhidden lair.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
And you gotta love Dave.
You guys have covered Ahsokawhen it came out.
But we see a little bit of thatlater on with the night sisters
and Ahsoka.
You know the the night troopersthey call them are basically
the same as you know these nightsister zombies under those
buckets, yeah, so when they makethat, that, that screeching
sound, and the eyes are glowinggreen, you know my first thought

(19:54):
was oh man First off, longgreen.
You know my first thought wasoh man first off.
Dave does remembers everything.
You know.
Filler episode is prologue tohim right.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
This is a great thing .

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Call back to the night sisters later on in ahsoka
when they can bring deadtroopers back to be basically
just self-regenerating redshirts and you know, and that's,
and that's what's interestingabout dave too.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
It's like I really feel like dave is sitting around
the kitchen table sometimes andhe's like man, what can we do
for a series?
Or what can we do for anepisode?
You know what?
Let me, let me go back to theepisode with jar jar and you
know he's, he's on rhodia andyou know what?
There was a guy in thebackground that was just.

(20:38):
He was just a placeholder.
Let's go ahead and make anentire story around this guy and
make him the brand newprotagonist and of this new
series.
Yeah, that'll be great andthat's dave.
I feel like that's how his, hisbrain works, like it was, it's
like unintentional prologue, Ithink.
A lot of times he's like thisis just one and done.
You know we're just gonna putthis guy looks cool, you know

(21:01):
he's just in the cantina orwhatever.
And then 15 years later now ourheroes are fighting that guy.
So now let me ask you this we,we at the at while this is
happening, I assume that duringthe time that Grievous was on

(21:22):
his way to find Mother Taliesin,that's maybe when he
encountered Morgan Ellsworth,because we don't see them
directly tied to Mother Taliesin, so they're potentially a
different clan completely.
So so along his way he runsinto them and and then all that

(21:44):
happens.
So so with.
This is my question with with.
Oh, hold on, I had anotherquestion.
I'm sorry, I'm all over theplace tonight.
Um, you had mentioned dookubeing the apprentice.
So my question is knowing whatwe know about dooku and knowing

(22:05):
you know his, his dealings, hislittle, his little side hustles
and things it's expected for theapprentice to, to sauce the
master and take on their ownapprentice, do you think dooku
would have done that eventually?
Or would he have just stayed aloyal apprentice and palpatine

(22:27):
knew that, which is why he had.
Well, I don't want to jump toofar ahead, but you know we, you
know he had things happen.
But do you think that Duke, whohad it in him to actually
betray and murder Palpatine sohe could become, you know the

(22:47):
true, you know dark Lord of theSith?

Speaker 3 (23:00):
so I would say no, because he, like the last
episode of this podcast that wejust did is when he could have
done it.
Yeah, like if he was gonna, ifhe wanted to take off palpatine,
that was the time to do it andhe had ample opportunity if that
was his intention.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Okay, so just more faithful number two, with maybe
no ambition to take that numberone spot.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
I just think he realized just how powerful
Palpatine is to have gotten tothe position that he's in the
long term planning.
I think he just knows he can'tbeat Palpatine.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
All right, crash.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (23:38):
I think he was a loyal number two in that,
whatever Palpatine sold him onthis idea of starting the Clone
Wars, I think Dooku'sarrangement was that he would
become the public face of theConfederacy and he would run the
Confederate government and then, when they broker a deal with

(23:59):
the Republic to split and theyjust sort of go their separate
ways, Dooku would run Camp A andPalpatine would run Camp B Plus
tell him what to do.
So I think he never had anyambitions to betray his master,
but I have a feeling he wantedjust this.
I said he had this comfortablepower hierarchy within the

(24:21):
confederacy, and ventress andmother talzin are a threat to
that right, yeah, that makessense.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, I agree, I don't.
I don't think that he ever hadhis eyes on the prize of being
like the sith lord.
I don't think that that was.
I think that he there was.
There was a symbioticrelationship between the two of
them.
Palpatine needed duke, whoseinfluence and you know his, his
power, but I think duke, whoalso legitimately wanted to see

(24:53):
an end to the, the corruption,and then just the, the rotten
core that was the republic.
But you know, of course, youknow he got.
He got twisted by palpatine andstarted doing things the wrong
way.
But I, I really don't thinkthat that he was ever really had
his, his sights set on becomingthat evil, dark lord.

(25:14):
He just wanted things to be theway that they were supposed to
be in his mind, the way thatthey were supposed to be.
So now, seeing morgan, we sawwhat happened with, of course,
asajj.
She once again narrowly escapesum same thing with morgan and

(25:34):
we're going to see a lot more ofher, not as much as I would
like, because she's a greatcharacter.
So I, I would, I would haveliked to have seen more.
But do we have knowing now ifwe're watching everything
chronological or this is yourfirst time meeting Morgan, so we

(26:05):
don't want to go too far aheadin that, but do you feel genuine
sympathy for these two women,knowing the route that they've
taken?
Especially Asajj, I mean, shehas been a thorn in the side of
the Jedi and the Republic.
She's killed a lot of clones.
She's killed a lot of clones,um, but we see that you know,
this desire to be part ofsomething, part of something
bigger, you know this, this needfor to be part of some sort of
a family unit, um, it's reallywhat drives her, seemingly.

(26:31):
You know, we, we got a littletaste of that, and it's not
canon anymore, I know, but inthe 2D micro series she wanted
so badly to be part of this Sithconclave with Dooku and
Palpatine and of course, sheends up getting betrayed by them

(26:51):
again, them again.
But, um, so, yeah, do you, afterthese two episodes, are you
feeling any sympathy?
Do they deserve sympathy, thesetwo?
For, uh, I mean morgan, wereally, you know, at this point
I would say yes, but um, butwhat about asajj?
What do you guys think aboutthat?

(27:12):
Like, is she still deserving ofa little sympathy?
Or it's like nah, fuck that kid, she deserves everything she
gets.
What are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (27:21):
I think so.
This is the part where AsajjVentress starts to become more
than just a trope.
You know, she was in the microseries.
She was just the Sith chickwith two blades, something
different than we've seen.
Sith chick with two blades,something different than we've
seen Even in the beginning ofthis series.
You know, okay, she's Dooku'sassassin, she's got two blades.

(27:44):
What we see later there's a bitof a flirtiness between her and
Obi-Wan, even as adversaries,much less allies, temporarily.
I love that.
That's great, we'll get intothat.
We'll get into that one.
But it's the kind of thing wherein this arc, you start to see
where she was being mistreated.

(28:06):
She was being manipulatedbecause she desired a family
unit of some kind besides theNightsister.
I have a feeling Dookuoku.
I don't know if this wasofficially canon, but I always
got the sense that whateverpartnership talzin and dooku had
, she was sort of the player tobe named later and added yeah,

(28:26):
she becomes his assassin as partof whatever partnership they
had.
So she, she was traded awayfrom her family to dooku, who
betrays her.
She comes home and we see thisBasically, they're reintegrating
her into their coven and sheeven said this carnage, this

(28:48):
army that's coming here isbecause of her.
She brought it on her own.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
She did and she felt bad for that.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
I mean she felt bad for that.
Yeah, I mean she felt regret.
I mean that's not.
Regret is not a trait of thesith no the sith, have no
regrets.
They just, they're just forcesof nature.
They, they do what they do.
And regret is a weakness.
Tony, what do you think?
Sympathy, sympathy, to yourname.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
So for Morgan, definitely at this point, I
don't, at this point have enoughto say that she was on an evil
path to begin with.
But hey, when your home getsinvaded for something that you
had nothing to do with and yourentire family and clan is killed
off, yeah, you're going to havesome anger, you're going to

(29:39):
gonna have some resentment.
I don't blame her in theslightest for that.
Now, obviously, what we willcome to learn about her role in
the future it becomes kind of awell, if you're siding with the
Empire and they're the ones whoultimately are responsible for
that well, that's kind of fuckedup.
But at this point, yeah, I'vecertainly got some sympathy.
As for Asajj, I definitely likethese episodes and that story

(30:04):
that they're telling certainlygive me some empathy and
sympathy for her.
I just at this point.
I mean, if you recall, backwhen we first started getting
into this and we watched Talesof the Jedi, there was a lot of
talk about how I love thecharacter of Dooku and that

(30:28):
backstory and how he became whohe is.
Right, and now with these, Ireally want to see that same
thing for her, because I thinkshe is.
There is a lot more depth toher character now than what
we're used to seeing and whatwe've seen in the past and,
depending on how that goes, shemay be a very sympathetic

(30:48):
character.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
I just don't know yet , right right and you know what,
and let's build on that as wego into the episode Bounty, we
really get to see there was alot of fan service in this
episode.
We got to see Bossk.
We got to see Boba.
I've never been a fan.
What's that?
We got a little bit more Embo.

(31:12):
I've never been a fan of youngBoba in the Clone Wars.
I love Boba Fett, but I've just.
I mean he's, he's just such anangsty teen.
It's just like dude, you're soemo, just dial it down a notch.
I get it.
You saw your dad beheaded.
You're angry dude.
But he just is like giving offlike trust fund brat vibes.

(31:35):
It's like you're the bratbounty hunter.
Just relax, the man is capable,the young man is capable.
We could, we've seen him fight,you know he's, he can handle
himself.
Um, but I'm just like, oh god,he just irks me.
I just want to like and thenlike seeing asajj's interactions
with him.
I love it.
Like sheen is like that bigsister or just someone needs to

(31:58):
smack this guy in the mouthsomeone.
Oh, but shut up, shut up.
So, but seeing asaj in this,this like, for me anyway it
gives.
Now she's definitely earningsome sympathy points.
You know she's.
She's earning some empathypoints because from the get-go
bosk, dengar and uh, lots, rizzy, razzy, uh, they were kind of

(32:24):
like strong arming her, and I'mwatching this and I was like you
know, gang, she could likesauce, you like in five seconds.
You're not bullying her, you'renot scaring her, she just she
needs you right now, kind of.
But I thought that was funny.
I thought you know, bosk, youknow trying to threaten her and
pressure, pressure her.

(32:45):
And then boba trying tothreaten her.
I'm like, come on, kid, notjust just knock it off, just
it's not gonna happen, becauseshe really could have taken all
of them out and then just donethe job herself, but she didn't.
And then, once she's faced withthe job and she finds out the

(33:05):
truth, the double cross happensand, dare I say, does she have a
foot on the path towards thelight side at this point?
Does she have a foot on thepath towards the light side at
this point?
Like, what are, what are yourthoughts on that?
Because this is I.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
I was like, oh all right, asajj, I'm, I'm feeling
you, I'm feeling you so I willsay this particular episode for
me asajj was giving um jacksparrow vibes.
Okay, not like, not notnecessarily bad, good, just
doing their own thing, all right.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Self-interest.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
There's that line that kind of got glossed over a
little bit, where you find outhow he became who he is and he
says people aren't cargo.
And that very much reminded meof this, where once she realizes
what the package is, she saysyou know what?
And to be fair, we can say,yeah, well, she also did it to

(34:04):
get a second payday, but she didWell she did the right thing.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
She did the right thing.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
And she even gave them the.
You know she only took her cut.
She could have taken the wholecase and like split yeah, yeah,
she got her cut and a littleextra.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
So I mean she, you know.
So I mean yeah, so that was, itwas nice.
So she got like a double ransompayment, you know, and that's
cool.
So, yeah, I get it.
Yeah, that's a, that's a goodpoint.
Tony, a little jack sparrowvibes, but she has a moral
compass surprisingly yeah, crash.

(34:44):
What's your take on it?

Speaker 2 (34:45):
um, I thought again, this is one of those you know
filler episodes prologue, youknow, and and with her we're
seeing she.
She doesn't quite know her path.
She knows she doesn't likeshe's given up on the Dooku path
.
The Nightsister path has beentaken away from her.
I liked at the end when she'stalking to Bosk and the guys

(35:09):
about, like I've been where youare now, you guys, I think
you're these hot bounty hunters.
You can just go and do what yougotta do.
You know somebody, everybodyworks for somebody.
It was a line they used in salt, like akira uses in solo, and I
think ventress was very um hipto the fact that, okay, these

(35:31):
these bounty hunters thinkthey're the, the, the big guy
dog on campus, but you alwaysyou work for somebody and and if
and if that somebody is not thebest, you know moral character.
You know you're taking bad jobs.
You're risking your life forbad jobs because you need
credits and right, yeah, becauseshe could have just fallen in

(35:51):
with this crowd and andliterally become the new alpha
in no time oh, she could have.
Yeah, she could have 100, takenthat crew over, no one would
have stopped her and and thenjust put a little little angsty
boba in his place and, you know,run the show.
But I think she, you know shewas very reluctant to sort of

(36:12):
get burned again.
You know, she needed, she took,she took the job because she,
you know, okay, she killed oneof their guys and they basically
were going to blackmail herinto doing this gig.
But it doesn't mean she has tojoin the band, it doesn't mean
she has to stay with them.
And then, once she realized themoral murkiness of what the

(36:33):
cargo and what the job entailed,I love the fact that she pulled
the switch on them to base and,and you know, and didn't let
them open the case until she wasgone and and that's, that's a
very slick way of screwing overthe bad guy, really.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
I'm just going to say this, and I don't know if it's
a hot take or not, but massageis just sexy, and I don't even
necessarily mean that in asexual way.
I just mean like she's sosmooth, she's so sarcastic,
she's just, she's one of thosequote unquote villains that you

(37:10):
love to hate.
But I'm really not even gettingvillain vibes from her anymore.
I'm getting very close toanti-hero, very close.
She's not quite there yet, butwe've got a couple people
watching.
Uh, let us know what you thinklike.
What are your thoughts on missasajj ventress?
You know, is she, is she justthat jack sparrow type character

(37:35):
, or is she on the path to beingmore of an anti-hero?
Because you could, even withjack sparrow, you could, argue
that he's.
He's got a moral compass, but Iwouldn't even say he's an
anti-hero necessarily.
He's maybe not quite there yeteither.
So I don't know, let us, let usknow all of our viewer, let us
know uh she's got the riz, shereally does, she really does

(37:58):
like.
If.
If I were making her acharacter in in any sort of rpg,
she would have to have at leastlike an eight charisma at least
, if not more, you know, but uhand she's such a great foil to
ob-Wan Some of the bestvillain-hero relationships.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
There's obviously opposite genders.
There's a quote sexual tensionthat people like to read into
these things, but I think justas straight-up
character-to-character shecounters his flirty, witty snark
.
It's Fred and Ginger.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
They have this, this difference between them even
when they're fighting, and shecan out snark obi-wan, I mean
that's.
And like again, sherry and Iwere watching this and it's, so
that's a great segue.
Let's, let's move on intobrothers, because that's where,
um, that's, was it Brothers orwas it Revenge?

Speaker 2 (38:58):
It was Revenge it was Revenge.
Brothers was mostly the Savagefighting.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Then we'll circle back.
Since we're on this, the, thisdance that we've seen, you know,
since the very beginning, sincethe Clone Wars movie, we've
seen this, this dance betweenthe two of them, and it's just
fun to watch and I so badlywould have loved to have seen

(39:26):
maybe not the two of them in a,in a romantic relationship, but
almost like a, like a buddycomedy sort of thing.
You know, I I would love tolike.
I think we're getting a Kenobiseason two, I believe that's.
That's either happening or it'sin the works.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Everything from it's in the talks to there they may
be.
There may be a cameo by Ewan inseason two of Ahsoka like so
does that count?
Yeah, cover the, you know we'llfind out.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Nothing's been formally announced yet.
Once the celebration japanhappens, we might get some new
information oh, we're gonna getnew information in japan, for
sure that's gonna happen.
I I really, really hope that weget asajj somewhere in live
action, because she's not dead,she won't die and we, we need it

(40:23):
and and what better than to puther in the kenobi series?
you know, I mean, like I I wasreally hoping in season one of
kenobi that she would have foundhim down and out, um, but
that's, that's gotta happen.
I mean I just that's thetrailer.

(40:46):
I mean that's the trailer forseason two.
Obi-wan is sitting in a market,in a cafe, somewhere, and then
in the background, all you hearis kenobi and that's it.
Like that's it.
You don't even have to show heryou, it's just the way she says
his name.
It's just it's like a fine wineor like a port.

(41:08):
It's just kenobi.
It's like lover I'm have.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
I'm getting way more respect it needs to be a dax
designer and she walks in.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah there you go, there you go, and again we don't
even, don't even have to seeher.
Just it's like a slow uh youknow, like a slow crawl towards
obi-wan's face.
He's just sitting there,contemplative, thinking about
everything, um, and as the asthe camera gets closer and

(41:39):
closer, he's just kind of likestaring down at his jawa juice,
and then you just hear it in thebackground, kenobi, and he just
looks up the only trick's gonnabe, with with, uh, lars thron,
you almost gotta find the voiceactress and you almost gotta see
if you can put her in enoughmakeup, whatever you gotta do to

(42:00):
make her look like Ventress.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
I know a lot of shows .
They sort of draw the character, sort of to resemble the actor,
just like with Thrawn.
That voice is what really soldit.
The crossover from animation tolive action and the other way
around with Bo-Katan, where it'sjust like oh you gotta it has

(42:24):
to be, because it is the voiceand the attitude and all of that
.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
I think you could find an actress to do that.
I mean you know it's.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Rosario's done a great job with ahsoka.
You know she's not ashley, butshe plays a much older version
of ashley, yeah an older version.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Um, so I think that, yeah, I think if we could have,
we could have that, because, ohgod, that would be so great, and
then that could potentiallyeven be an opening for more
quinlan voss, because quinlanand asajj were they were, they
were knocking boots, they weredoing the no pants dance, I

(43:07):
believe.
So, um, that would be veryinteresting.
Um, I don't do we know if, ifvos is alive at this time, I
don't know, I, I don't really, Idon't.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
I haven't there.
There's a mention of him inobi-wan kenobi as part of the
path right, but we don't see him.
We don't know if he's, like,currently alive at the time he's
mentioned, but yeah, he's beenreferenced and even the
difference between him in thecomic books.
He's a much gruffer kind of guyversus as we see him in Clone

(43:47):
Wars.
He's more of like a mellowsurfer dude it's going to be
interesting yeah, yeah, he'scool and I think that he's a
good.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
He's a good match for asajh, because she's she's very
flirty and playful, but she'salso she's a little stiff, and
quinlan is like you said thathe's that surfer dude and I
would, uh, I would love to see alittle romantic comedy with

(44:19):
them.
I'm not a fan of rom-coms, but,uh, I'd watch that take that
plus, right, but no, we got it.
We got to see a stage in dealingwith kenobi in some way.
So so, yeah, so we're we'relooking at, we're talking about
revenge, the episode revenge andshe comes to save the day, and

(44:39):
it's like you said this, justtheir quips, they're just,
they're back and forth, it's.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
It's so amazing to watch, it's so well written and
and, and I know we're going tocome back to the, the first half
of that arc, but it was.
This was big I we were talkingbefore the show.
I remember I was at Celebration6 in Orlando and they had a red
carpet premiere for the newseason because everybody was

(45:06):
jazzed about Darth Maul beingback and I had to go digging
through the archives.
I still got the poster.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Oh, look at that.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
And it's just beautiful.
And this was it.
It was the Maul brothers.
Back in action.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Lift it up a little bit more.
What's on the bottom?

Speaker 2 (45:28):
It's got the Clone Wars logo.
They had a new day and time.
I can't remember when itoriginally aired.
It was like a.
They moved to like Saturdaymorning, I think, and that was,
like you, that was primetimecartoon time, because this is
when the show was really cookingand they wanted a good time
slot.
But this idea that a guy who wethought was dead in episode one

(45:53):
is coming back.
He'd been in some coolnon-canon alternate universe
stories like Vision and stufflike that.
They had a thing with him withthe prosthetic legs and there
was all sorts of great thespider look that we first see
Darth Maul in.
Everybody was excited becausethere was all this cool art that

(46:15):
we had been seeing for years.
Dave went.
I'll take a little bit of that.
I'll take a little bit of that.
I'll take a little bit of that.
Double it all together.
I got a brother, so now we gotthe master and apprentice of
these two they hadn't quitefigured out that hierarchy yet,
but just two horned badass dudeson a trip for revenge.

(46:37):
It was going to be Kenobi andmaul the rematch and so.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
So now let's, let's circle back to that.
Let's get I mean we, because wecould, we could do an entire
episode on the vibe that isasajj and kenobi.
But, um, we, even we, theepisodes even started hard with
they.
They changed their color yeah,the red logo.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
I mean, it's just like whoa, wait a minute.
Something's about to happen,and it was all about the mall
man, it was all about mall andand tip of the hat to sam.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Sam crushes it.
Sam brought something, becausemaul was a very one-dimensional
character.
You know, he was just ahenchman.
He was just that guy he was.
He wasn't known as a talker.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
You know he didn't have a lot of lines in the movie
because they had a dub rayparks weird voice right and you
know to get sam who justmasterclassed it.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah, Cause in the in the live action.
We you know we don't get muchfrom mall.
I mean, you get he's.
He's a Darth.
We know that he's.
He's Sidious, is number two,but he just felt more like a,
like an attack dog than anactual Sith partner.
I think that's exactly what hewas meant to be.
He was just that.

(48:00):
You know that club, you knowthat Palpatine was using.
But when Sam got his hands onthis character and he just plays
that, that trauma and that,that disconnect from reality and

(48:20):
and we see it when, when we getback to when, when Savage gets
him, gets him back to Dathomir,and mother Towson is like
literally pulling the chartsyeah, she's pulling the trauma.
I was like that's better thantherapy.
I mean, can I?

Speaker 2 (48:39):
mother give me some of that you booked me an
appointment.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
I mean, can you pull some of that shit out of my head
too?
But it's just um, oh, speakingof towels and I'm sorry again,
I'm all over the place when shemade that collect call to dooku
coming out of his fucking bodyto facetime him like, are you
kidding me?
We, we always talk about vader,how he's able to force, choke

(49:06):
people across the tv.
You know he did that to amaraozzel and all that right.
We, you know, we've seen that.
But this was a cross.
Wherever duke who was, it wasnot right next door and she, she
did a, she did a luke.
When luke force projected youknow to to fight kylo.
But but tausend did that andcaused him physical pain, came

(49:31):
up out of his guts like, ah, andyou're a bad witch.
You are one bad witch.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
The zombies, the Night Sister, voodoo this was
some dark Imagery for somethingthat Was getting a reputation.
Again, people were early on.
This is a cartoon.
We're getting deep people we'regetting dark.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Sorry.
So, coming back, so we find, wefind mall in the cave, we've
got spider mall and it's just, Ialmost felt bad for him.
I almost felt bad for himbecause of, because of his, his
psychosis, you know.
But also, you know, dude,brought on yourself, but as a,

(50:19):
as a man, I can, I, I can feelthat, you know, I could, because
he got his lower half choppedoff and he didn't get it back so
he lost his saber.
You know what I mean.
I mean, he lost his, yeah, helost his little saber.
I mean I don't know if it waslittle, I'd like to think that
darth maul was packing, but buthe, he lost his, his buddy.

(50:43):
That would make me crazy too,not just the fact that that
kenobi cut him in half, butkenobi caused the loss of of his
butt and, uh, I, I could, Icould almost, I could almost
feel for the guy at that point,because you just know.
And then, when, when towntalzin gave him his new legs I

(51:07):
don't think she gave him a new,like robo welly, I thought it
was interesting.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
When she did that, you know, she, she, she
reassembled him and using droidparts, you know, and just
stripping what she needed, youknow, the bare raw materials out
of these, these droids who justwiped out her coven.
And and I always, you know,whenever I watched that episode,
you know that scene, I'm always, I fall, I fall into, do my bad

(51:33):
.
Forrest Gump every year magiclegs.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Cause you know that was that was.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
That was a very popular look in the alternate
divisions where he had thespring loaded legs and he could
run real fast.
He could do all these coolthings with these legs and I
like the fact that they showedhim when he first stood up.
It wasn't like a perfect, likeoh sure, this is just my new leg
.
He wobbled, he had to readjust,he got that shit in seconds.
He first stood up.

(52:00):
It wasn't like a perfect, likeoh sure this is just my new look
.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
He wobbled, he had to readjust, he got that shit in
seconds.
I mean that vengeance.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
Maul's such a Mary Sue, you know.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
I mean just to be able to do that, but that only
works one way, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Right, oh my God, yeah, he adapted very quickly
and let's give him credit.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
You know Clancy Brown carried that first episode it
was just Savage trudging alongwith this stupid snake.
Was that Ken Cha?
I can't.
Can we look up who played thesnake in that episode?

Speaker 3 (52:37):
His name was Ben Diskin.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
Yes, ben Diskin.
We look up who played the snakein that episode.
Uh, his name was ben diskin.
Yes, because at first I waslike man you're.
You're sounding a lot like lopan there from, uh, from big
trouble, little china.
But uh no, it was.
Yeah, it was.
I looked him up, but you knowso clancy brown, you know who.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Again it's got a very just iconic voice.
You know, hear Savage Oppressed.
I'm in Highlander mode, I'm in.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Mr Krabs mode.
I'm just like, oh, that's MrKrabs.
I don't like Highlander as well, but I'm like that's Mr Krabs.
That's a hell of a range, isn'tit?
You're Mr Krabs and then you'reSavage Oppressed.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Yeah, and he was really the lead-in to let sam
just do his thing and and andthe two of them together just
have a great repertoire betweenthem already they do, they do,
and I I'm finding that I'mfeeling bad for savage because
again he's.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
He's lost, he's been so used and manipulated.
He wasn't a bad guy and that'sthe thing with Savage.
Savage was tempered and forcedinto all of this.
Savage was 100% violated and hebecame this beast, this animal.
But he just wants thisbrotherhood, he just wants

(54:00):
family in any way that he canget it, and I feel so bad for
him because maul doesn't give afuck about that.
He doesn't give a fuck at all.
At this point he's just likeall right, this is, this is
another, you know, a tool that Ican use to get back at konomi I
mean not to my, you know allthat's true.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
I will also say you know he was told he was going to
get to marry asajj and I knowwhere my mind would go with that
and yet he didn't get that.
So that's right, plenty ofreason to be angry.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
I forgot about that, that's right.
Oh yeah, I'd be a little upsetabout that too, and it's
interesting.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
In the later fight.
You know when Asajj comes tothe rescue, you know they trade
off.
Maul was doing a great job ofunsettling Obi-Wan.
He brought up Qui-Gon, he gothim off his game and they
switched dance partners.
And all of a sudden you knowAsajj is fighting with Maul and

(55:03):
Kenobi's fighting Savage and thehate shifts.
You know everybody's got tobeef with somebody else and then
they switch dance partners inthe middle of the fight.
And that was a really cool insuch close quarters.
Kind of okay, there's a lot ofoverlapping, we're getting
telenovela here in as there's.
There's a lot of overlapping.
We're getting telenovela herein a set.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, there's a lot of overlapping storylines it's,
it was cool because we do see um, um in that scene.
Like you say, we might as welljump to that episode too.
Now we're going all over theplace anyway, but um, the
choreography in that scene wasgreat and I don't know if this

(55:43):
is ever intentional, but it's.
It's something that I'veobserved.
You know, palpatine always saysyou know, well, he doesn't
always say but he, he said thatyou know, your hate your anger,
it gives you focus.
Hate your anger, it gives youfocus.

(56:05):
But every time we see someone instar wars fighting from a place
of rage and anger, they're verysloppy and it they, it doesn't
actually give them focus,whether they're walking on the
dark side or the light side.
And we see this with obi-wan.
Obi-wan is a professionallightsaber master.
He is good, you know, he maynot be the best, but he is still
very, very good.

(56:26):
Um, and he was like you said,he was off his game, but he, he
tapped into his anger and itmade him less technical, it made
him more sloppy, and I thinkthat's what ultimately gave, you
know, the brothers a leg up,because otherwise I think that I

(56:47):
think obi-wan may have beenable to handle one um, but the
two of them together was just itwas too much, but I, I'm sorry,
go ahead did you notice when hefirst showed up on that planet?

Speaker 2 (57:01):
you know, maul says, you know, sends the was just, it
was too much, I'm sorry, goahead.
Did you notice when he firstshowed up on that planet?
Maul sends the message to sayoh, come face me.
And then you know, I'm kidding,and let's you know, we talked
last week about how you knowAnakin, you know no matter what
you know you killed children,man, that's not redeemable.
Maul did it with glee.
Maul did it with intent,because he knew that would be

(57:23):
what draws the Jedi's attention.
And I'm like you, bastard.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Anakin did it out of a misplaced fear of loss.
He did it to save Padme.
Still inexcusable what he did,but at least there was a
selfless sort of selflessmotivation behind it.
He wanted to save padme's life.
But does anakin want to savepadme for padme or does anakin

(57:54):
want to save padme?
for him right and I don't meanin like a possessive way, but he
knows he's trying to protecthis heart.
He can't save anyone that heloves and that's always been.
Anakin's greatest downfall ishis love, ironically.
But with Maul, no, it was justbait to draw out Kenobi so he

(58:16):
could slaughter Kenobi and hewiped out an entire fucking
village men, women, children,the little droid, that little r5
.
We see how the fuck does adroid get ptsd.
Because that droid was like ah,the things I've seen.
And it's like that poor droid.
I was like what?

(58:36):
So I it just shows thedifference between.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
There's always been a very you know fans like to
compare darth maul versus darthvader, right and and yeah, darth
vader, is this the icon movieicon of evil?
Darth maul's just a bad dude.
Yes, yeah, and for whatever hisdamage is, I mean he don't hold
back?

Speaker 1 (59:02):
no, and we, and we, you know, we've nerds have
debated this for years and yearsand years.
You know who would win in afight, you know, darth vader or
darth maul, and you know I, I'mof the belief that vader would
win it because he has morecontrol and maul is just a rabid
dog, you know, and I, I mean wesee that all the way up to the

(59:23):
end.
He's just a rabid dog, he, helives like a dog and he dies
like a dog.
So I mean, he's just it all theway through to his core.
He's rotten, um, but uh, eveneven knowing that, even though
we know how rotten to the coreDarth Maul is, fuck man, I, I

(59:44):
didn't see it coming that hewould wipe out.
Is he capable of doing it?
Yes, but I mean those hostageshe had on the hollow.
Uh, presumably he decapitatedall of them in one shot.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
That was, yeah, they, they.
They played the camera anglewell to get it by a network
sensor, but it was clear hepublicly live streamed, executed
them for the Jedi.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
He did, he Talibaned them.
Tony, you were going to saysomething you mentioned.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
It's a debate about who would win, maul versus
versus vader.
I got a question for you guyswho would win maul or savage?
Because, like you know,obviously maul is force
sensitive and whatnot, but butsavage has his own extra

(01:00:37):
abilities.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
It would be Maul, it would be Maul, because Savage
has, he has love for Maul andthat would be his undoing, that
would be his weakness.
He would let his guard down.
Brother, I don't want to fightyou.
Yeah, he'd be trying tonegotiate to stop the fight.

(01:01:04):
Mall would just shred him about.
A second thought mall caresonly about mall and getting his
revenge on kenobi.
That's it.
Any, any power play that hemakes, any alliances he forges,
it doesn't matter.
It's all about his obsession.
And I I think that, and that'swhy I feel bad for savage, is
because he just he wants abrother.
If, if I think, if savage hadit his way, the two of them
would just go out and like, opena cantina somewhere, they would

(01:01:25):
just kick it in the outer rim,have a little camp, a little
dive bar cantina somewhere andjust chill.
But um, I won't allow it well,and we'll see later.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Yeah, without giving too much away, savage sees
themselves as equals, you know.
He sees themselves as brothers.
Maul immediately goes for thathierarchy, you know, like we
were saying about dooku andpalpatine I'm the alpha, you're
the beta.
Right, I'm the master, you'rethe apprentice, and it's just
they had different goals whichyou, which is a great way to

(01:01:58):
play off those two characters.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
And you know, and Maul, again, he is despicable,
but we do see with him amasterclass in manipulation.
He learned from the best,though.
He learned it from PapaPalpatine.
But he knows, and I'm sure hesenses Savage's weakness that is
love, and he uses it tobasically gain control.

(01:02:24):
It's like one one rabid dog,you know, holding the leash of
another rabid dog and he's goingto use.
He's going to use Savage as hisblunt instrument.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
And notice there are moments and there'll be moments
later where maul is was privy topalpatine's plant.
Yeah, when he's told that theclone wars are going on, it's
like, oh.
It's like when you miss a weekof your favorite episode, your
dvd show, and you're like, oh,that thing happened that so it.
So it started, and it startedyeah, and, and you can tell he

(01:02:57):
was.
He was a man who sort of missedthe boat in in in this grand
scheme of Palpatine's and hewants to find a way back in.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Yeah, I mean he misses.
I'm sure that he misses hisplace in the hierarchy, but I
think, more so, he misses hispenis.
I think that is.
I mean it's it's revenge onkenobi for chopping his penis
off.
I think that is.
That is the takeaway.
It's not being talked aboutenough.
I don't think it's ever beentalked about enough, and I think

(01:03:26):
that's a disservice tostorytelling and it's a
disservice to maul's penis.
I feel that, uh, I would bethat crazed and angry as well.
I think, uh, his, his penisdeserves a place in the
spotlight.
That's added to the wall ofremembrance we should add dark
penis to the wall of remembrance.

(01:03:47):
Yes, you are, you are correct,I don't even have here.
Where's uh?
Um, I darth maul's penis isgoing on the wall of remembrance
.
Poor little guy.
Poor little guy probably wastattooed up and everything
anyway.
So that's it.

(01:04:09):
That's the end of, uh, thatseason four wrapped up really
really well, really really well.
We see, uh, we see asaj outthere loose in the galaxy, you
know, trying to find her, hermoral compass and she has one.
It's nice to know that.
You know the the brothers areout there just going to be

(01:04:31):
wreaking havoc along the way.
Um, and then the rest of thegang is just, uh, prepping for
season five, as will we, uh, soit's.
I always tell people, seasonfour, just get through it, get
through the first three seasons,and season four is where you're

(01:04:52):
hooked.
I mean I, I don't want to sayskip seasons one, two and three,
but but I mean if you were on adesert island and you can only
take one box set with you, Idon't know, it might be, it's,
it's a toss-up between four andseven, because seven's a damn
good, damn good fucking seasonas well.

(01:05:12):
Um, but we're getting there,all right.
So season five is coming upnext.
Let's show just because it isso good looking.
Let's show that, uh, thatdarkness on umbara image again,
man, man, that's going to be astar wars celebration, japan
exclusive.

(01:05:32):
But I'm gonna steal it from theinternet and print it out and
put it in a frame, because damnI I'm sure it'll be available
somewhere else too.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
But look at it, it's a great example of what this
season did, in that it you know,it took, you know the format of
an animated Star Wars show andbrought it to the level of a
live action drama.
This was a very We've beengoing on and on about how much
we love this arc.
This was when the Clone Warsgot dark.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
And I'm going to say it and I know the gooners out
there and the fandom menace.
They're going to shit on me butthis was dark and gritty.
This was a dark and grittyseason.
Prove me wrong if you don'tagree.
Prove me wrong.
Why was this season not darkand gritty?

(01:06:27):
And I'll tell you all thereasons why you're wrong.
Because, uh, we've got death,dismemberment, torture.
It's just there's some suicidein there, there's some
self-saucing, I mean it's andwe've got some new and we've got
some new players.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
You know the night sisters.
Yeah, mother talzin is going tobe a force to be reckoned with.
We talked about cad bane.
We've talked about, you know,the bounty hunters in general.
You know, like, okay, young boaand his, those guys are out
there but they're not reallyinvolved in the war, but they
will be involved in futurestories and they're players in
this drama now and again CadBane, the greatest bounty hunter

(01:07:10):
in the galaxy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Tony, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
I did want to ask you guys because I know you've seen
this before, whereas for methis was the first time, having
now seen Mother Taliesin assumethat missed form.
Essentially to you guys,because I know you've seen this
before, whereas for me this wasthe first time, having now seen
Mother Taliesin assume thatmissed form.
Essentially, for me, seeing itfor the first time, it reminded
me of the Mother and Acolytedoing the same thing.
And I'm curious for you guys,who had seen this first, if you

(01:07:37):
had made that connection or not.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Yeah, because you've got their, their witches, the,
the accolade they were, theirwitches they're employing.
You know they have a similarconnection to this.
It's, you know, a differentform of the force.
So they do have that connectionand I thought it was really
cool to see that.
You know, I I don't think theywere on dathomir, though I can't

(01:08:03):
remember the name of the planetthat they were on, but they
definitely weren't on dathomir,but like there was an
interpretation that they werewhere they were because they
left somewhere else right and atthat point would that have been
dathomir or?
because there was clearly a a anight sister purge on dathomir.
So it's entirely possible that.

(01:08:23):
Well, but this is like 100years before that, so it
wouldn't have been that purge,but they were escaping from
something and, and there wereschisms.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Even the jedi knew of witches and other force
sensitive wielding cultures.
We'll find out we'll see someones later on in rebels that
even the Zebs race has a veryspiritual connection to.
You know the Ashland they callit and it was just sort of the

(01:08:55):
same way.
You're right, and the Acolyteshowed a little bit of it, and
that there's more than just Jediand Sith, there are other
cultures.
The Force may be allencompassing the universe, but
everybody interprets the Forcedifferently, much like, for me,
a lot of real world religions.

(01:09:15):
We all have the same idea, wejust give it different names.
Right, we're in for same idea.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
We just give it different names.
Right, we're in for a ride.
Season five coming up next.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
I did look it up while we were talking, quinlan
did survive Order 66 and, at abare minimum, was at least alive
until 9 ABY.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
All right, so he and Asajj could be kicking around
and they could still be alive.
Because I mean, we arebasically in the Mandoverse era
currently.
I mean that's where SkeletonCrew takes place.
Yes, that's the same time frameas the Mandalorian.
So we are currently in theMandoverse era, so post-E in the

(01:09:59):
Mando verse era, so post empire, you know, pre new order.
So Quinlan and massage there.
They're out there somewhere.
Yeah, maybe we'll meet theirkid how cool would that be.
The child of Quinlan Voss andAsajj Ventress?

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
What sort of hellish abomination might that be the
child of the goth girl and thesurfer boy.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Love it.
All right, hey, let's do some,oblig, obligatory pimping.
Um, oh, homework, no homework.
Just to catch up on our, ourpast episodes.
Um, and we're gonna end uptalking about when we uh, we're
gonna take a little two-weekbreak, we're gonna come back and
then we're gonna do, uh, our,we'll talk, you know, we'll prep

(01:10:51):
for season five and we'll talkabout the state of star wars.
Uh, we'll do that on our nextepisode as we uh kick off season
five of the clone wars.
So again, homework.
Uh, check out our past episodes, tell your friends, tell your
enemies, let them know.
And, uh, we are going to uh dosome pimpage.

(01:11:14):
We got some neat.
Look at that Circle of nerdscomslash merch for all of your
nerdy swarzy needs.
And, of course, if you'relistening, check us out on
YouTube if you want to watch us,or wherever you get your
podcast and let everyone know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
You guys got anything on the way out.
One thing I always like to saywe said during Skeleton Crew
we're going to get ready for anew season of Clone Wars.
When you're doing your homeworkand you start watching these
episodes, and if we bounce intotales for certain stuff, enjoy
the ride.
That's, I think, the biggestthing at this point in this
particular series and just StarWars in general.
Enjoy the ride.

(01:11:56):
Don't overthink it.
You know that's our job.
We'll overthink it, we'llexplain everything to you.
Just have fun with it.
That's what Star Wars reallyshould be about as fans, and
just enjoy the ride.
Well said.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Well said, tony, you got anything.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
I'm just going to say I know I've seen it all over my
social media feeds, but Ireally now want to see a Star
Wars musical.
Any of our fans listening haveheard the.
Ai take on that.
I think it's a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
I can't do it.
I can't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
I survived a Star Trek musical, but I don't know,
I just saw that and I lovedevery second of it was.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
It was great.
Surprisingly, I was.
I'm looking forward to the newseason, um, but I, uh, I love
that show.
It's a great show, but I can't,I can't, you can't no, not, not
with my star wars.
I can't do it.
No, I'll watch.
I'll watch the marvel.
You know the avengers musical.
Um, I'll watch that turkey.

(01:13:03):
I know it's fake, but I would.
I would watch that before Iwould watch a star wars musical.

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
Please, don't just take that back tony, like just
don't even take it back.
I mean, to be fair, it's not somuch a musical as it is like a
rock opera, but but absolutelynot.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
I, I just I can't, I can't do it, no, no all right,
all right, hey, teach their own,it's okay geez, oh man.
What's happening to the world?
No, I, if that happens, if weget a star wars musical, I'm I'm
joining the fandom menace.
It's going to happen overnight.
Overnight.
I will pledge my loyalty to thefandom menace.

(01:13:42):
I will bend the knee to thoseguys and just walk away from the
whole thing.
No, I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Oh man, we were on such a positive note thanks for
bringing open down productionwith the musical number and all
the dancing on stage oh, I'veseen it, yeah that, that's your
fear.
That's what I've seen.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
No, my fear is turning into the.
Uh, what is it that star warsdance party for the connect?

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
do you guys remember that game it came out for like I
never played it, but I sawenough of it to go oh my god,
this is, this was a bad idea itwas so.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
I've never heard of this performance?

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
oh, just look it up, it up.
It was an Xbox game, itutilized the Kinect technology
and it was basically like thosedance games where you have to
mimic the moves on screen.
But they took pop songs butthen swarzyed them out.
They changed the lyrics, oh God.

Speaker 3 (01:14:53):
Okay, yeah, okay, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
Yeah, we don't want that You're seeing, and it's
like you're seeing Boba Fett andHan Solo like doing, like club
moves and it's just and stormtroopers in the background.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
They need to do, cause, like we, we have those
types of dance, dance revolutiongames.
Right, we have, um, you know,the the beat saver game for the
virtual reality system, which isawesome.
Yeah, yes.
Why don't they combine thosetwo and just teach us the
choreography for these fightscenes?

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
yeah, yeah, I would absolutely be down for that
would be a game like if we hadlike.
So instead of instead ofcopying dance moves, we're
copying the fight choreographyfrom like, like the duel of the
fates.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
Yes, exactly I'd play that, I play that they messed
around they had.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Vader had a game where it was one of those
virtual reality gigs where youhad to put the visor on.
You're literally like like Luke, you got this big, clunky visor
on, you got a joystick that'ssupposed to be your lightsaber
and you react to what'sprojected in your field of view.
I couldn't do it.
I had to trip several times.

(01:16:07):
I'm just such a klutz, I didthat one time in Vegas, in one
of those balls where you'resupposed to walk, and I tripped
like three times.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
No, you just can't do it.
There's been so many.
There was like the Masters ofTerracasi game.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Oh, nintendo Wii had a Clone Wars game where you
could literally fight as AnakinObi-Wan, ahsoka, ventress
Grievous.
I think Yoda, it was a MortalKombat, it was a fighter, yeah,
and all you were doing was thisI don't want that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
I don't want that.
Force Unleashed was one of thegreatest Star Wars games ever
made.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
The original Battlefront was just cinema.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Battlefront 2 wasn't bad.
What is it Jedi?
The jedi order game jedisurvivor.
Yeah, calcestis, those aregreat games, um, and we should
do that.
We need to do like a star warsgame episode where we kind of
like run down our top picks ofstar wars games, the best and

(01:17:13):
the worst.
We're talking worse.
I can go back to Super Nintendo.
There was an Empire StrikesBack game.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
I don't remember that game.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Oh my god, I majored in the old PC X-Wing and TIE
Fighter games.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Remember those.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
Oh, those were great.
Those were great.
Those came out about the sametime as, I think, Wing Commander
.
I've got that game on thislittle those were great those
were great.
Those came out about the sametime, as, I think, wing
commander, yeah, yeah.
I've got that game on thislittle guy oh well I remember
the star Wars arcade game whereit was like the black and green
wireframe.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Oh yeah, the original trench game.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Yeah, that was rough.
It was rough, all right.
All right, we're going to wrapit up.
Thank you, guys.
So, thank you everyone fortuning in this week.
We appreciate you.
We do know that, of course, youcould always spend your time
somewhere else, but you chooseto spend it with us.
We've got a few people watchingus live today on YouTube.
We appreciate you for takingthe time to watch us.
If you're just now popping in,sorry, we're about to wrap it up

(01:18:13):
, but, uh, go back and watch itanyway.
Like once, once this publishesout, watch it, it'll be cool.
So, uh, that's it.
We also want to give a veryspecial thanks to our active
duty military members andveterans for their service and
sacrifice.
Um, things are weird for themright now.
Uh, weird for everybody rightnow, I mean to be honest.
So, um, I will say that there's, there's a lot going on, um, in

(01:18:37):
the world today.
So what I will, I will suggest,is that you, you seek joy, seek
out joy and pace yourself.
You don't have to try toconsume all this media that's
coming in.
Things seem overwhelming rightnow.
You're getting hit with a lotof information, both good and
bad, all over the place.
Take your time, take a breath,disconnect sometimes, seek joy,

(01:19:01):
seek the company of like-mindedindividuals and just breathe.
It's a marathon, not a sprint.
Just breathe and remember thethings that star wars has taught
us.
There is always hope, no matterhow dark things may seem, there
is always hope.
Even if it's just from a smalllittle, under equipped ragtag

(01:19:21):
band of of bright-eyed hopefuls,there's always hope.
And, uh, even against the, thebig, the big, bad empire,
there's always hope.
So just, uh, keep that alive.
And and remember, depending onwhat side of the fight you're on
, you know, being joyful is aform of resistance, because

(01:19:43):
right now, people want you to bemad, they want you to be scared
, they want you to disassociateand just be completely
overwhelmed and demoralized.
Seek that joy, don't let themdo it.
That's how you resist, that'show you fight back, without
going to the next level.

(01:20:03):
But there you go, that's it.
So if no one's got anythingelse, everybody good, that was
perfect, all right.
So that's it.
So always remember folks.
Uh, in addition to all that, mystar warriors, if no one does
anything nice for you, dosomething nice to yourself, and
we're gonna see you next seasonas we discuss season five, and I

(01:20:26):
am so, so looking forward to it.
So, all right take care, we'llsee you guys in a couple weeks,
maybe, whenever I get thisposted.
Yeah, alright, bye, bye you.