August 22, 2023 • 32 mins
This episode is devoted to trade with Canada. Part 2.
Our guest is Maria Guzman, a Senior International Market Consultant at Ontario Ministry of Economic Development.
Maria has 15+ years of experience in international business development with Government & Export Development sector, private Companies and Non/for profit organizations.
In the second part of the interview with Maria we will discuss:
- how to approach buyers and clients in Canada
- is it worth using chambers of commerce and trade shows in Canada
- decision making process and communication culture
- business culture differences between the provinces
- how to get initial trust and build long term partnerships
- how to calculate price of your products before talking to local buyers
- and much more...
You can listen the first part of the interview in the Episode 3 of the Season 2.
Subscribe to the Start Global Insights podcast on all major platforms and YouTube.
Speakers LinkedIn Profiles:
Guest, Maria Guzman https://www.linkedin.com/in/-mariaguzman-/
Host, Dmytro Shvets https://www.linkedin.com/in/dshvets/
Please, give us your feedback on Apple podcasts or write to the email: podcast@start-global.biz
Create your international expansion strategy with Start Global, your guide to foreign markets. https://www.start-global.biz/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, I'm Dmytro Shvets, your host at The Start Global Insights, where I interview experts
(00:11):
in different countries about local business secrets and international expansion experience.
This is the second part of the conversation that we had with Maria Guzman, a senior international
market consultant at Ontario Ministry of Economic Development with 15 plus years experience
of working with the expert development sector and helping various companies to expand to
(00:33):
international markets and enter the Canadian.
We finished the previous part of the interview with describing the buyer's expectations
from the supplier and we will proceed investigating their needs and approaches that will help
you to sell your products to companies in Canada.
So Maria, last time you said that prior to contacting the potential client, you actually
(00:55):
need to study the company, its products, existing suppliers, prices and roles inside your potential
client.
And it looks like that you need not only develop your expert strategy, but also to develop
your sales strategy to the particular company and even to the particular person, because
there are people behind the roles.
(01:15):
A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
That's my main advice for my companies and for everybody.
Like, don't forget we're dealing with people.
We're not dealing with equipment.
You may have the most amazing solution.
You may have the most amazing product, but you're dealing with people and you need to
(01:36):
be able to present your product virtually because you don't have the opportunity to
go like before, get a coffee with somebody, talk about your life, get the connection,
then present your product.
That's something that we don't have right now.
But you have the beauty of internet, you have the beauty of technology.
(01:57):
I also create opportunities with virtual meetings to visit the factories.
Sometimes we do inspection virtually.
So you have to be very creative.
Think out of the box and always think that the other side, it's a person who's very
busy.
It's very grumpy sometimes, not because of you, because she's receiving or he's receiving
(02:22):
tons of emails.
And that's basically the way we're dealing with people.
How good is the idea to call directly, like to find a mobile phone and to call to the
provider?
So that's the cold call.
We call the cold call.
We never get into anything.
I have experience calling massive companies, small companies.
(02:47):
I never pass the receptionist.
I never pass the voicemail.
I never get into that because they don't have the time.
They don't have time.
And if we're gonna make a call, it has to be no more than two minutes, like blah, blah,
blah, blah, done.
So the speeches has to be short and to the point.
(03:09):
So I feel like it's easier to communicate through emails.
It's harder to get the emails because sometimes we find 1-800 number and then we call and
we escalate the call and we ended up finding the phone from the direct buyer, but they
never respond.
So emails are very effective.
You are willing to take time to think about the wordy, the body of the email, the introduction,
(03:35):
body and conclusion, very short, very assertive.
And that's it.
Once you get that, it's easier to move forward.
And what about the business associations or chambers of commerce, how effective they are?
Maybe it is better to get this connection to potential clients via these associations.
(03:58):
Yes, sometimes the business associations help us.
Sometimes a cluster help us.
Sometimes chambers of commerce.
It depends of the specific chambers of commerce and association.
They have directories.
They're not very targeting.
They're more abroad.
(04:18):
So if you have an inquirer, they will send your information to their members.
And if somebody respond, it will be a lucky day for you.
I mean, yeah, I understand that this was like a shooting in the air.
But for example, if I found a buyer in LinkedIn from a particular company and I understand
(04:44):
that he is a member of some business association or a chamber of commerce, and I would like
to get this chamber of commerce to introduce me to this buyer, would that way be effective?
It could be.
It could be one way because there's not only one way to do things.
It can be a different way to do things.
(05:06):
You can send the email directly.
You can support yourself with the chamber of commerce.
You can support yourself with somebody from inside the companies if you already know sometimes
to target in one person.
But it happens that somebody else can guide you to that person.
So sometimes it's easier to get to the lower side to go up instead of go up and find that
(05:29):
a specific contact.
This is a life hack that I sometimes use when you contact, I don't know, some very junior
manager and then you are writing to the top executive saying that this guy from your company
recommended me to contact you.
So you are not introduced directly, but you are already like inside of the company.
(05:52):
And this is not, it's a more warm approach, right?
Because you get the contact directly to the CEO and they send you back to the manager
because the CEOs, they don't deal with the companies directly.
Go back to my manager, go back to my producer, whatever it is.
So yeah, so there's some, it's like a sneaky job, I say it.
(06:17):
It's like a detective job as well.
It has to do with a lot of strategy behind.
Sometimes you're very blessed, you find a customer right away in a trade show, sometimes
you don't.
But by my experience, it's all about the differentiation as you present yourself.
It doesn't matter the sector.
(06:39):
It can be food, it can be apparel, it can be technology.
It's a matter of being assertive with your wording and getting the attention.
We do have one very important show that is called Collision.
We have it in Ontario, all technology, all the startups.
(06:59):
That is a very good way, a good show to get contacts because you have the contacts there.
It's very expensive for us to go as a, so the ticket can be in between $500 for any
participant, not for the audience.
So it's not an open show that everybody can go.
(07:21):
So who pays $500 to go to show is because he has interest and he's looking for solutions
and services.
And that's why you should be prepared before very, very subtle because then you need to
understand whom to contact, why to contact, what to talk, how to present, to have this
elevator pitch at the meeting and so on.
(07:43):
So to make this $500 the most efficient that you can.
Correct.
That's the whole idea to be ready because sometimes the buyers appear in a dinner or
appears next to you in an airplane.
It doesn't matter where you are.
You always have your mindset ready to sell your company, your products, your services.
(08:06):
And you said about timing when we were talking about different regions.
How formal and long is decision-making process usually?
And if it differs from parts of...
It differs.
So Ontario takes longer because the cultural mental setup is actually depending on the
(08:28):
buyer and the company, right?
But my experience shows that in Ontario and the English-speaking provinces takes longer.
The culture from Quebec and the French provinces, it's more dynamic and they respond faster.
And they're more straightforward to you.
I don't like it.
(08:48):
I like it.
The politeness of the English-speaker provinces is there.
So it's like, okay, maybe no.
But when they say no, it's no.
And when they say yes, it's yes.
I am very impressed that the relationship that we create with the clients in Canada
and Ontario, Montreal, whatever it is, it's a long lasting relationship for business.
(09:12):
It's not one time unless we fail in something as a company or we don't deliver or the prices
go wrong, whatever, something may happen in between.
But the culture is to look for business long lasting relationship.
And how about to establish this lasting relationships?
How big is this level of trust of the first meeting?
(09:37):
How easy going can be the conversation with people when they see you the first time?
So I'm going to give you an example of Canada as a cultural country for talking about trust.
We go to the gas station and this is something that the Americans laugh at Canadians.
We fill the car.
(09:58):
We get down.
We fill the car with gas and then we go inside and pay.
And Americans laugh at that because they said, okay, guys, they used to be like that in US
before.
That you filled your car and you can live.
You can live.
You can live once but you cannot live twice because Canada allows you to get the trust
(10:21):
of the beginning.
If you lose this trust, it's impossible to get it back.
But trust is an issue that they expect to from any company, any client from around the
world to be truthful of what you're telling.
Not talking too much about your product and what amazing it is, one of a kind.
(10:44):
We tend to do that all the time.
It's the best of the best.
It's one of a kind.
You're never going to find that so cheesy.
We don't do that.
We tend not to do that because it's not worth it.
It's not truly what it is.
So it's very valuable to say from the very beginning, what are your strengths and your
(11:07):
challenges and your opportunities?
So you don't need to fake.
You don't need to lie.
You just need to tell the truth.
Listen, my product has this, is very good in this.
However, we are working in having this solution in the second part.
It is amazing when I talk to my companies in Ontario and they all keep telling me this.
(11:29):
Maria, my products are amazing in this, but they're lacking on the other part.
Very straightforward from the very beginning.
So we don't waste time.
They don't waste time.
The buyers don't waste time.
But always looking for a solution.
Don't tell yes to everything.
Don't, oh yeah, price.
Oh yeah, for sure.
(11:50):
That's a tendency.
Oh, the products are $40.
Oh, my products are $25.
No, you won't be able to do it.
Don't get that opportunity just to get it because you will lose it.
So the bargaining is not the custom in Canada?
No, it's not.
Because when we talk about price, they will respect the price.
(12:14):
If you mention, why did you come up with the price?
If you said, okay, my price is so high because this, this, this, and this.
If we can agree in something in between, if we can agree in something that can support
you and you can support me, it's a very mature way of doing business.
Very mature.
If there, if there isn't a discount, then you should be, you should explain why this
(12:38):
discount appears.
Yes.
So this is.
Yes.
Obviously an increase.
Sometimes it happens that the, the, the, the, the dollar went up or your money, this change
rate is changing.
So it has to be very open.
It has to be on the table, nothing hiding.
I'm going to tell you a story that I always tell my clients because it's a, it's a reality.
(13:01):
We work in this, in this opportunity for three years.
It was, it was lingerie.
It was a textile company from one country in South America trying to get this, La Senza,
which is now Victoria's Secret.
Everybody knows Victoria's Secret.
So Victoria's Secret was a client, was a buyer.
(13:23):
It took us like three years back and forth with samples, with this, with color, blah,
blah, blah.
Finally, they make an order.
It was like for Valentine's day.
So the order was one year ahead, eight months ahead.
And the company from this country, a provider in South America didn't buy enough fabric.
(13:45):
So the red that the buyer was selecting, it was very specific.
It was a red that they created for that specific garment.
So they decided by themselves, solving the solution, getting a new red and thinking that
the buyer wouldn't see the difference.
(14:06):
They put the whole boxes.
It was a massive, massive, it was like a more than $5 million order.
Because they buy here, but they sell it all around Europe and Asia and everywhere.
So it was a massive order.
It was the cherry on the top for that producer company.
(14:28):
The boxes came.
They called me and said, Maria, this is what's happening.
We opened the boxes and half of the production have a different red, just tiny.
What happened?
They said, well, I don't know.
Let me find out.
Back to the company, they make their own decisions.
They never contacted the buyer.
(14:51):
They never told the buyer.
So what happened?
They missed that opportunity.
All the boxes went back.
Not even the right ones were able to sell.
So the boxes went back.
The order went back.
It was a total mess for both sizes because this company from America was waiting for
(15:12):
Valentine's Day.
The biggest selling day for the products.
There was an opportunity loss as well.
Everything was lost.
So be honest.
They should call the company and say, listen, we only can produce half of the order because
this issue, is that okay with you guys if we send you a sample?
(15:32):
And do you agree or not?
And this is what it is.
Done.
So be...
Even if it is not okay, then you still have the door open for the future agreements.
And now they don't have any chance to come back.
And when they happen, when it happens with that specific country, the whole country goes
(15:54):
in the mind of the buyers and the people in the company.
It's the country.
It was not in the specific company.
It's a whole country.
So we have to keep in mind that we as the producers represent companies and companies
represent countries and society and values.
Yeah.
This is always what I say to my clients that keep in mind that you are not only selling
(16:16):
your product, you are selling the whole country.
True.
You said that it took them three years to sell.
Is it always so long journey?
Because what I hear from companies that are now willing to go for new opportunities, new
markets, they say like, we need to sell quick.
(16:40):
So we need money.
We need to sell in three months.
Well, in this case was very long because it was a very delicate product that it has regulations
because it was a panty.
So when you deal with specific products that comes with regulation and health regulations
(17:01):
and security and also certifications, it takes longer.
It depends on the product, but nothing happens in three months.
That's for sure I'm going to tell you.
The cycle is around one year.
One year.
Yeah.
So nothing happened.
In this case, it was different because as I said, the product needed more work and needed
(17:23):
more certifications and so on.
And one year is because of this trust establishment.
Correct.
You need to create the trust and also keep in mind you have more competitors.
Sometimes they're looking more than one at the same time.
When they close the other one, you have the road open for yourself and they tell you that.
(17:45):
They won't play around with you.
They won't give you the opportunity and then suddenly close it.
If they close it, they will tell you why.
Maybe sometimes they stop the process because something internally happened, but doesn't
mean they close your opportunity.
So if you get the answer and we are not interested, then it is okay to ask them for some clarification.
(18:06):
Correct.
It's okay.
It's always in this culture, always is acceptable to have a review.
Why?
What happened?
What did I read wrong?
Exactly.
Now that's something that we are open to all of that.
We are open to say, why did you reject my application?
Why did you reject my company?
(18:27):
Why did you not open the door for me?
It's okay.
That's something that we are open to do.
Cool.
So until now, it sounds that Canada is a paradise for exporters.
Great sources of information for market research, open, transparent people with feedback.
Well, a bit long it will take, but if you decide to go to Canada, it's quite a good
(18:54):
opportunity.
You know why?
Because it's an open country for importers.
We need products.
We don't produce products, but it's also very competitive.
That's the main thing because it's open, it's competitive.
So you have to compete.
If you get an appointment here with a potential client, you go to the meeting and it's exactly
(19:14):
the looking for a job, you get in the waiting area, 10 more companies like you, and you're
just going to present your products in person or you're going to present your services or
you're going to present something.
So it is like that.
Who gets the attention, who gets the right prize, the right timing, the right production
is the one who moves forward.
(19:35):
It's a competition.
Sometimes it's not only who's the best, it's always who can continue and keep up with the
rhythm of back and forth.
So you should show that you are not just one time lucky guy that entered the room, but
you can keep entering this room for a long term.
(19:57):
That's why I mentioned the best, the success meetings that I've seen in any sector is the
one that the potential buyer is well educated about the buyer and the company.
Even the meetings and everything you start with, this is what you do, this is how I offer
for you, this is your need, this is the solution I give you.
(20:19):
Those are the best meetings for selling that I've been seeing in my whole life.
What about the marketing and communication?
Are there any usual channels that are used?
For example, in the UK, and in Denmark as well, you still have these paper catalogs
(20:41):
that are sent to houses.
No, we don't.
For here, everything is digital basically.
Yes, we tend to send the barcode and everything is there.
Use of telephone is very massive here.
So people is always working on the phones, on the tablets.
So everything that we produce as a marketing material has to be adaptable for tablet and
(21:07):
cell phone, not only for computer.
Everything for us is more like we're very sensitive to the environment.
So basically when you come and said, oh, I don't give you a catalog paper because I'm
sensitive to the environment, I give you the catalog virtually and electronically.
(21:27):
So yes, they tend to live by what they preach.
What they preach is the companies tend to live on that one because there's been a lot
of bad fire coming from suppliers when they don't do the due diligence.
At one point they will go to the factory, at one point they will go to your office and
they will visit you because the relationship is very important.
(21:52):
Because this is long-term.
So this is kind of a long-term investment and you need to know your partner actually.
So this is also what I tell to my clients that you are not looking for a client, you
are looking for a partner.
And I keep saying that partner, partner, they say like, what?
We are not partnering.
So we are just selling.
(22:13):
No, no, no, this is not a one-time sale.
This is a long-term relationship.
This is like marriage.
You are looking for a partner for your life and that needs to be prepared.
Imagine how difficult for a buyer is to do all this process, all this process hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of times.
(22:36):
Because they want life easier.
They want to get a partner and they say like, okay, you understand my needs.
I respect your needs as well.
You can support me in my needs.
You can find solutions for what I'm looking for and I can also be more open with what
you're offering.
So that's where I stand.
(22:57):
So the value is not in the product actually here.
The value is in the relationship.
In the relationship at the beginning, but the product is finally what it's going to
be selling, right?
Yeah, but the product is like the must-have.
So the product must be good, needed in the market and the good quality and the price
(23:18):
related.
But everybody has it.
So everybody can have this new one.
Okay.
But coming back to the channels, social media, websites, LinkedIn.
Social media, website, LinkedIn, all the electronic opportunities.
We don't do TikTok too much.
(23:40):
TikTok is kind of banned here.
The B2B is more mostly I think in LinkedIn.
Yes, B2B more.
But at the same time, e-commerce is a big trend.
Big trend.
E-commerce is moving forward more and more every time.
Remember that when it's too cold here, especially for the rural areas, everything is e-commerce.
(24:03):
Everything is online.
So opportunities and e-commerce, they're always growing.
And yeah, so basically the regular ways to promote your product.
So the digital footprint is quite important in this case.
Yeah.
So before contacting somebody, you need to be normally present on the internet because
(24:26):
they will Google you.
Of course.
It is important for you to have your website, important for you to be with your email that
is not Hotmail or Yahoo or Gmail because my company is not Gmail.
You have to have your own.
They trust very much into your website and the extension of your email because that's
(24:47):
a company.
You cannot be maria.com Hotmail because that's not the professional way to present a company.
And also the presence with your website, your LinkedIn, they're going to look for you to
profile.
They're going to look for you and see what you do, what you have done before.
(25:09):
So everything has to be very accurate and organized.
Okay.
Okay.
From your experience working with foreign companies that are entering Canada, what are
the typical and the most awful mistakes that they do?
I'm going to tell you how to lose a buyer.
I have classified five main things in my life that this is for me.
(25:34):
How to lose a buyer.
Failure to answer the emails promptly.
Failure to respond to the emails.
How promptly?
I'm going to tell you.
So if you said tomorrow, I will give you the response.
It has to be tomorrow.
If you don't respond tomorrow for any reason, you can send an email and say, I'm sorry,
(25:56):
I'm not going to be able to give you the response, but bear with me in two more days or three
days, whatever time you need.
Everything that you say, it has to be accountable.
Everything that you claim, it has to be accountable.
If you said my product is bio, whatever, protected universe, it has to be accountable.
(26:17):
At one point you have to prove it.
If you said, I'm going to send you the price list in a week, it has to be in a week.
So if they send you an email, we prefer a response between 24 hours, regularly.
No, it's not going to take a week.
The second thing that we said, the product quality and everything that you claim is inconsistent.
(26:41):
So everything that you have said, as I said, it has to be proof.
So the quality of your product, the quality of the services where you are selling, it
has to be consistent.
It has to be real.
The third one is attempt to change prices after the negotiation process.
(27:02):
When that happens, sometimes you need to go back because sometimes happens, right?
That you miss a calculation something or you were able to not be accurate with the exchange
rate, you have to tell as soon as fast after the negotiation is happening.
So if you said my product is $5, they're going to calculate right away $5 plus if it's a
(27:27):
FOB, it's a different way of chipping, they're going to calculate right away.
The taxes, the importing taxes, everything, they have the final price already in five
seconds for you.
But if you change it, everything, the equation change.
So when you go to price negotiation and you don't know what can you offer, it's better
(27:51):
for you to say give me time, I will get back to you with my accurate price list.
Failure, the number four, failure to meet supply orders on time.
So that's another killing of the negotiation if you said, because as I said, timing is
very important in Canada.
And the number five is the lack of knowledge in chipping and labeling.
(28:18):
They're not going to teach you anything.
Some buyers are very more generous in time and they will let you know more.
If they have to have a specific qualification for chipping, they will let you know, but
you have to know everything before entering the negotiation process because it's part
(28:40):
of the pricing, it's part of the negotiation.
And this information is available on all these websites that you said, you have the governmental.
Yes.
All the information is available on the government website.
And of course, the last one is to talk more about the reality, to say more about what
(29:01):
you get capable for.
They're not looking for Superman and Superwoman, they're looking for partners, people who can
respond, people who can go for vacation and be sure that the order is going to be there.
People who's going to be calling you and you respond.
And if you have any problem, you tell them what is the problem, how to solve that.
And not a big problem for them.
(29:22):
Nothing like it's going to be extra for them.
And just a quick question about the pricing.
You're talking a lot about that.
Yeah, so this is important.
So you know from your experience, what is the usual margin that is expected by distributor
or the discount from the end price?
So for FOB, I always create my own formula based on my experience.
(29:47):
You come to Canada or you go to the website of a product, you see the final price FOB
without the tipping and you divide it by five.
So let's see, you go to the website or anything, I don't know, cereal and the cereal is $5,
(30:07):
you divide it by five, meaning the FOB price is $1.
So this is what the distributor expects from you.
So you should pay like a get $1 per this cereal.
$1.
Does the product ended up FOB $1?
So that's the mistake the companies do.
They come here, they look prices or they go internet and said, oh, the cereal is $40.
I can do better than that or $5.
(30:29):
I can do it for four.
So listen, it's not for four, it's going to be for one.
So always divide the final price between five.
Sometimes six depending on the buyer.
Sometimes they're very, very cheap.
They tend to put the price very low because they're comparing with China.
But right now with everything happened with China in Canada, it's not looking good for
(30:50):
the products from the Chinese market.
So opens another opportunity for other countries.
Okay.
Yeah.
So Maria, that was amazing conversation.
I say yes.
At least for me, this was extremely interesting.
I hope that the listeners will also value that information.
(31:12):
And I think that we could talk more hours, more further, but we are already talking quite
out of time.
So unfortunately, we need to finish this lovely conversation.
Thank you, Dimitri.
Thank you for this opportunity once again.
I hope it was useful.
(31:32):
I hope the companies get a little glimpse of what's happening right now and also open
their eyes for opportunities and potential opportunities into the market.
I know they will have lots of questions, so they will direct the questions directly to
you.
Do you have my information?
Do you feel like at one point anybody can contact me?
(31:56):
And also I am in LinkedIn.
You can always look for me and I'm here to support in any possible way.
If you don't mind, I will add the link to your profile to the description of the episode.
That will be good.
That will be excellent.
Great.
Thanks a lot for your time and experience.
And I hope that sometime we will proceed and actually meet in person in Canada.
(32:19):
That will be great.
Or in Ukraine.
I'm here looking forward.
Hi, I'm Dmytro Shvets, your host at The Start Global Insights, where I interview experts
(00:11):
in different countries about local business secrets and international expansion experience.
This is the second part of the conversation that we had with Maria Guzman, a senior international
market consultant at Ontario Ministry of Economic Development with 15 plus years experience
of working with the expert development sector and helping various companies to expand to
(00:33):
international markets and enter the Canadian.
We finished the previous part of the interview with describing the buyer's expectations
from the supplier and we will proceed investigating their needs and approaches that will help
you to sell your products to companies in Canada.
So Maria, last time you said that prior to contacting the potential client, you actually
(00:55):
need to study the company, its products, existing suppliers, prices and roles inside your potential
client.
And it looks like that you need not only develop your expert strategy, but also to develop
your sales strategy to the particular company and even to the particular person, because
there are people behind the roles.
(01:15):
A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
That's my main advice for my companies and for everybody.
Like, don't forget we're dealing with people.
We're not dealing with equipment.
You may have the most amazing solution.
You may have the most amazing product, but you're dealing with people and you need to
(01:36):
be able to present your product virtually because you don't have the opportunity to
go like before, get a coffee with somebody, talk about your life, get the connection,
then present your product.
That's something that we don't have right now.
But you have the beauty of internet, you have the beauty of technology.
(01:57):
I also create opportunities with virtual meetings to visit the factories.
Sometimes we do inspection virtually.
So you have to be very creative.
Think out of the box and always think that the other side, it's a person who's very
busy.
It's very grumpy sometimes, not because of you, because she's receiving or he's receiving
(02:22):
tons of emails.
And that's basically the way we're dealing with people.
How good is the idea to call directly, like to find a mobile phone and to call to the
provider?
So that's the cold call.
We call the cold call.
We never get into anything.
I have experience calling massive companies, small companies.
(02:47):
I never pass the receptionist.
I never pass the voicemail.
I never get into that because they don't have the time.
They don't have time.
And if we're gonna make a call, it has to be no more than two minutes, like blah, blah,
blah, blah, done.
So the speeches has to be short and to the point.
(03:09):
So I feel like it's easier to communicate through emails.
It's harder to get the emails because sometimes we find 1-800 number and then we call and
we escalate the call and we ended up finding the phone from the direct buyer, but they
never respond.
So emails are very effective.
You are willing to take time to think about the wordy, the body of the email, the introduction,
(03:35):
body and conclusion, very short, very assertive.
And that's it.
Once you get that, it's easier to move forward.
And what about the business associations or chambers of commerce, how effective they are?
Maybe it is better to get this connection to potential clients via these associations.
(03:58):
Yes, sometimes the business associations help us.
Sometimes a cluster help us.
Sometimes chambers of commerce.
It depends of the specific chambers of commerce and association.
They have directories.
They're not very targeting.
They're more abroad.
(04:18):
So if you have an inquirer, they will send your information to their members.
And if somebody respond, it will be a lucky day for you.
I mean, yeah, I understand that this was like a shooting in the air.
But for example, if I found a buyer in LinkedIn from a particular company and I understand
(04:44):
that he is a member of some business association or a chamber of commerce, and I would like
to get this chamber of commerce to introduce me to this buyer, would that way be effective?
It could be.
It could be one way because there's not only one way to do things.
It can be a different way to do things.
(05:06):
You can send the email directly.
You can support yourself with the chamber of commerce.
You can support yourself with somebody from inside the companies if you already know sometimes
to target in one person.
But it happens that somebody else can guide you to that person.
So sometimes it's easier to get to the lower side to go up instead of go up and find that
(05:29):
a specific contact.
This is a life hack that I sometimes use when you contact, I don't know, some very junior
manager and then you are writing to the top executive saying that this guy from your company
recommended me to contact you.
So you are not introduced directly, but you are already like inside of the company.
(05:52):
And this is not, it's a more warm approach, right?
Because you get the contact directly to the CEO and they send you back to the manager
because the CEOs, they don't deal with the companies directly.
Go back to my manager, go back to my producer, whatever it is.
So yeah, so there's some, it's like a sneaky job, I say it.
(06:17):
It's like a detective job as well.
It has to do with a lot of strategy behind.
Sometimes you're very blessed, you find a customer right away in a trade show, sometimes
you don't.
But by my experience, it's all about the differentiation as you present yourself.
It doesn't matter the sector.
(06:39):
It can be food, it can be apparel, it can be technology.
It's a matter of being assertive with your wording and getting the attention.
We do have one very important show that is called Collision.
We have it in Ontario, all technology, all the startups.
(06:59):
That is a very good way, a good show to get contacts because you have the contacts there.
It's very expensive for us to go as a, so the ticket can be in between $500 for any
participant, not for the audience.
So it's not an open show that everybody can go.
(07:21):
So who pays $500 to go to show is because he has interest and he's looking for solutions
and services.
And that's why you should be prepared before very, very subtle because then you need to
understand whom to contact, why to contact, what to talk, how to present, to have this
elevator pitch at the meeting and so on.
(07:43):
So to make this $500 the most efficient that you can.
Correct.
That's the whole idea to be ready because sometimes the buyers appear in a dinner or
appears next to you in an airplane.
It doesn't matter where you are.
You always have your mindset ready to sell your company, your products, your services.
(08:06):
And you said about timing when we were talking about different regions.
How formal and long is decision-making process usually?
And if it differs from parts of...
It differs.
So Ontario takes longer because the cultural mental setup is actually depending on the
(08:28):
buyer and the company, right?
But my experience shows that in Ontario and the English-speaking provinces takes longer.
The culture from Quebec and the French provinces, it's more dynamic and they respond faster.
And they're more straightforward to you.
I don't like it.
(08:48):
I like it.
The politeness of the English-speaker provinces is there.
So it's like, okay, maybe no.
But when they say no, it's no.
And when they say yes, it's yes.
I am very impressed that the relationship that we create with the clients in Canada
and Ontario, Montreal, whatever it is, it's a long lasting relationship for business.
(09:12):
It's not one time unless we fail in something as a company or we don't deliver or the prices
go wrong, whatever, something may happen in between.
But the culture is to look for business long lasting relationship.
And how about to establish this lasting relationships?
How big is this level of trust of the first meeting?
(09:37):
How easy going can be the conversation with people when they see you the first time?
So I'm going to give you an example of Canada as a cultural country for talking about trust.
We go to the gas station and this is something that the Americans laugh at Canadians.
We fill the car.
(09:58):
We get down.
We fill the car with gas and then we go inside and pay.
And Americans laugh at that because they said, okay, guys, they used to be like that in US
before.
That you filled your car and you can live.
You can live.
You can live once but you cannot live twice because Canada allows you to get the trust
(10:21):
of the beginning.
If you lose this trust, it's impossible to get it back.
But trust is an issue that they expect to from any company, any client from around the
world to be truthful of what you're telling.
Not talking too much about your product and what amazing it is, one of a kind.
(10:44):
We tend to do that all the time.
It's the best of the best.
It's one of a kind.
You're never going to find that so cheesy.
We don't do that.
We tend not to do that because it's not worth it.
It's not truly what it is.
So it's very valuable to say from the very beginning, what are your strengths and your
(11:07):
challenges and your opportunities?
So you don't need to fake.
You don't need to lie.
You just need to tell the truth.
Listen, my product has this, is very good in this.
However, we are working in having this solution in the second part.
It is amazing when I talk to my companies in Ontario and they all keep telling me this.
(11:29):
Maria, my products are amazing in this, but they're lacking on the other part.
Very straightforward from the very beginning.
So we don't waste time.
They don't waste time.
The buyers don't waste time.
But always looking for a solution.
Don't tell yes to everything.
Don't, oh yeah, price.
Oh yeah, for sure.
(11:50):
That's a tendency.
Oh, the products are $40.
Oh, my products are $25.
No, you won't be able to do it.
Don't get that opportunity just to get it because you will lose it.
So the bargaining is not the custom in Canada?
No, it's not.
Because when we talk about price, they will respect the price.
(12:14):
If you mention, why did you come up with the price?
If you said, okay, my price is so high because this, this, this, and this.
If we can agree in something in between, if we can agree in something that can support
you and you can support me, it's a very mature way of doing business.
Very mature.
If there, if there isn't a discount, then you should be, you should explain why this
(12:38):
discount appears.
Yes.
So this is.
Yes.
Obviously an increase.
Sometimes it happens that the, the, the, the, the dollar went up or your money, this change
rate is changing.
So it has to be very open.
It has to be on the table, nothing hiding.
I'm going to tell you a story that I always tell my clients because it's a, it's a reality.
(13:01):
We work in this, in this opportunity for three years.
It was, it was lingerie.
It was a textile company from one country in South America trying to get this, La Senza,
which is now Victoria's Secret.
Everybody knows Victoria's Secret.
So Victoria's Secret was a client, was a buyer.
(13:23):
It took us like three years back and forth with samples, with this, with color, blah,
blah, blah.
Finally, they make an order.
It was like for Valentine's day.
So the order was one year ahead, eight months ahead.
And the company from this country, a provider in South America didn't buy enough fabric.
(13:45):
So the red that the buyer was selecting, it was very specific.
It was a red that they created for that specific garment.
So they decided by themselves, solving the solution, getting a new red and thinking that
the buyer wouldn't see the difference.
(14:06):
They put the whole boxes.
It was a massive, massive, it was like a more than $5 million order.
Because they buy here, but they sell it all around Europe and Asia and everywhere.
So it was a massive order.
It was the cherry on the top for that producer company.
(14:28):
The boxes came.
They called me and said, Maria, this is what's happening.
We opened the boxes and half of the production have a different red, just tiny.
What happened?
They said, well, I don't know.
Let me find out.
Back to the company, they make their own decisions.
They never contacted the buyer.
(14:51):
They never told the buyer.
So what happened?
They missed that opportunity.
All the boxes went back.
Not even the right ones were able to sell.
So the boxes went back.
The order went back.
It was a total mess for both sizes because this company from America was waiting for
(15:12):
Valentine's Day.
The biggest selling day for the products.
There was an opportunity loss as well.
Everything was lost.
So be honest.
They should call the company and say, listen, we only can produce half of the order because
this issue, is that okay with you guys if we send you a sample?
(15:32):
And do you agree or not?
And this is what it is.
Done.
So be...
Even if it is not okay, then you still have the door open for the future agreements.
And now they don't have any chance to come back.
And when they happen, when it happens with that specific country, the whole country goes
(15:54):
in the mind of the buyers and the people in the company.
It's the country.
It was not in the specific company.
It's a whole country.
So we have to keep in mind that we as the producers represent companies and companies
represent countries and society and values.
Yeah.
This is always what I say to my clients that keep in mind that you are not only selling
(16:16):
your product, you are selling the whole country.
True.
You said that it took them three years to sell.
Is it always so long journey?
Because what I hear from companies that are now willing to go for new opportunities, new
markets, they say like, we need to sell quick.
(16:40):
So we need money.
We need to sell in three months.
Well, in this case was very long because it was a very delicate product that it has regulations
because it was a panty.
So when you deal with specific products that comes with regulation and health regulations
(17:01):
and security and also certifications, it takes longer.
It depends on the product, but nothing happens in three months.
That's for sure I'm going to tell you.
The cycle is around one year.
One year.
Yeah.
So nothing happened.
In this case, it was different because as I said, the product needed more work and needed
(17:23):
more certifications and so on.
And one year is because of this trust establishment.
Correct.
You need to create the trust and also keep in mind you have more competitors.
Sometimes they're looking more than one at the same time.
When they close the other one, you have the road open for yourself and they tell you that.
(17:45):
They won't play around with you.
They won't give you the opportunity and then suddenly close it.
If they close it, they will tell you why.
Maybe sometimes they stop the process because something internally happened, but doesn't
mean they close your opportunity.
So if you get the answer and we are not interested, then it is okay to ask them for some clarification.
(18:06):
Correct.
It's okay.
It's always in this culture, always is acceptable to have a review.
Why?
What happened?
What did I read wrong?
Exactly.
Now that's something that we are open to all of that.
We are open to say, why did you reject my application?
Why did you reject my company?
(18:27):
Why did you not open the door for me?
It's okay.
That's something that we are open to do.
Cool.
So until now, it sounds that Canada is a paradise for exporters.
Great sources of information for market research, open, transparent people with feedback.
Well, a bit long it will take, but if you decide to go to Canada, it's quite a good
(18:54):
opportunity.
You know why?
Because it's an open country for importers.
We need products.
We don't produce products, but it's also very competitive.
That's the main thing because it's open, it's competitive.
So you have to compete.
If you get an appointment here with a potential client, you go to the meeting and it's exactly
(19:14):
the looking for a job, you get in the waiting area, 10 more companies like you, and you're
just going to present your products in person or you're going to present your services or
you're going to present something.
So it is like that.
Who gets the attention, who gets the right prize, the right timing, the right production
is the one who moves forward.
(19:35):
It's a competition.
Sometimes it's not only who's the best, it's always who can continue and keep up with the
rhythm of back and forth.
So you should show that you are not just one time lucky guy that entered the room, but
you can keep entering this room for a long term.
(19:57):
That's why I mentioned the best, the success meetings that I've seen in any sector is the
one that the potential buyer is well educated about the buyer and the company.
Even the meetings and everything you start with, this is what you do, this is how I offer
for you, this is your need, this is the solution I give you.
(20:19):
Those are the best meetings for selling that I've been seeing in my whole life.
What about the marketing and communication?
Are there any usual channels that are used?
For example, in the UK, and in Denmark as well, you still have these paper catalogs
(20:41):
that are sent to houses.
No, we don't.
For here, everything is digital basically.
Yes, we tend to send the barcode and everything is there.
Use of telephone is very massive here.
So people is always working on the phones, on the tablets.
So everything that we produce as a marketing material has to be adaptable for tablet and
(21:07):
cell phone, not only for computer.
Everything for us is more like we're very sensitive to the environment.
So basically when you come and said, oh, I don't give you a catalog paper because I'm
sensitive to the environment, I give you the catalog virtually and electronically.
(21:27):
So yes, they tend to live by what they preach.
What they preach is the companies tend to live on that one because there's been a lot
of bad fire coming from suppliers when they don't do the due diligence.
At one point they will go to the factory, at one point they will go to your office and
they will visit you because the relationship is very important.
(21:52):
Because this is long-term.
So this is kind of a long-term investment and you need to know your partner actually.
So this is also what I tell to my clients that you are not looking for a client, you
are looking for a partner.
And I keep saying that partner, partner, they say like, what?
We are not partnering.
So we are just selling.
(22:13):
No, no, no, this is not a one-time sale.
This is a long-term relationship.
This is like marriage.
You are looking for a partner for your life and that needs to be prepared.
Imagine how difficult for a buyer is to do all this process, all this process hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of times.
(22:36):
Because they want life easier.
They want to get a partner and they say like, okay, you understand my needs.
I respect your needs as well.
You can support me in my needs.
You can find solutions for what I'm looking for and I can also be more open with what
you're offering.
So that's where I stand.
(22:57):
So the value is not in the product actually here.
The value is in the relationship.
In the relationship at the beginning, but the product is finally what it's going to
be selling, right?
Yeah, but the product is like the must-have.
So the product must be good, needed in the market and the good quality and the price
(23:18):
related.
But everybody has it.
So everybody can have this new one.
Okay.
But coming back to the channels, social media, websites, LinkedIn.
Social media, website, LinkedIn, all the electronic opportunities.
We don't do TikTok too much.
(23:40):
TikTok is kind of banned here.
The B2B is more mostly I think in LinkedIn.
Yes, B2B more.
But at the same time, e-commerce is a big trend.
Big trend.
E-commerce is moving forward more and more every time.
Remember that when it's too cold here, especially for the rural areas, everything is e-commerce.
(24:03):
Everything is online.
So opportunities and e-commerce, they're always growing.
And yeah, so basically the regular ways to promote your product.
So the digital footprint is quite important in this case.
Yeah.
So before contacting somebody, you need to be normally present on the internet because
(24:26):
they will Google you.
Of course.
It is important for you to have your website, important for you to be with your email that
is not Hotmail or Yahoo or Gmail because my company is not Gmail.
You have to have your own.
They trust very much into your website and the extension of your email because that's
(24:47):
a company.
You cannot be maria.com Hotmail because that's not the professional way to present a company.
And also the presence with your website, your LinkedIn, they're going to look for you to
profile.
They're going to look for you and see what you do, what you have done before.
(25:09):
So everything has to be very accurate and organized.
Okay.
Okay.
From your experience working with foreign companies that are entering Canada, what are
the typical and the most awful mistakes that they do?
I'm going to tell you how to lose a buyer.
I have classified five main things in my life that this is for me.
(25:34):
How to lose a buyer.
Failure to answer the emails promptly.
Failure to respond to the emails.
How promptly?
I'm going to tell you.
So if you said tomorrow, I will give you the response.
It has to be tomorrow.
If you don't respond tomorrow for any reason, you can send an email and say, I'm sorry,
(25:56):
I'm not going to be able to give you the response, but bear with me in two more days or three
days, whatever time you need.
Everything that you say, it has to be accountable.
Everything that you claim, it has to be accountable.
If you said my product is bio, whatever, protected universe, it has to be accountable.
(26:17):
At one point you have to prove it.
If you said, I'm going to send you the price list in a week, it has to be in a week.
So if they send you an email, we prefer a response between 24 hours, regularly.
No, it's not going to take a week.
The second thing that we said, the product quality and everything that you claim is inconsistent.
(26:41):
So everything that you have said, as I said, it has to be proof.
So the quality of your product, the quality of the services where you are selling, it
has to be consistent.
It has to be real.
The third one is attempt to change prices after the negotiation process.
(27:02):
When that happens, sometimes you need to go back because sometimes happens, right?
That you miss a calculation something or you were able to not be accurate with the exchange
rate, you have to tell as soon as fast after the negotiation is happening.
So if you said my product is $5, they're going to calculate right away $5 plus if it's a
(27:27):
FOB, it's a different way of chipping, they're going to calculate right away.
The taxes, the importing taxes, everything, they have the final price already in five
seconds for you.
But if you change it, everything, the equation change.
So when you go to price negotiation and you don't know what can you offer, it's better
(27:51):
for you to say give me time, I will get back to you with my accurate price list.
Failure, the number four, failure to meet supply orders on time.
So that's another killing of the negotiation if you said, because as I said, timing is
very important in Canada.
And the number five is the lack of knowledge in chipping and labeling.
(28:18):
They're not going to teach you anything.
Some buyers are very more generous in time and they will let you know more.
If they have to have a specific qualification for chipping, they will let you know, but
you have to know everything before entering the negotiation process because it's part
(28:40):
of the pricing, it's part of the negotiation.
And this information is available on all these websites that you said, you have the governmental.
Yes.
All the information is available on the government website.
And of course, the last one is to talk more about the reality, to say more about what
(29:01):
you get capable for.
They're not looking for Superman and Superwoman, they're looking for partners, people who can
respond, people who can go for vacation and be sure that the order is going to be there.
People who's going to be calling you and you respond.
And if you have any problem, you tell them what is the problem, how to solve that.
And not a big problem for them.
(29:22):
Nothing like it's going to be extra for them.
And just a quick question about the pricing.
You're talking a lot about that.
Yeah, so this is important.
So you know from your experience, what is the usual margin that is expected by distributor
or the discount from the end price?
So for FOB, I always create my own formula based on my experience.
(29:47):
You come to Canada or you go to the website of a product, you see the final price FOB
without the tipping and you divide it by five.
So let's see, you go to the website or anything, I don't know, cereal and the cereal is $5,
(30:07):
you divide it by five, meaning the FOB price is $1.
So this is what the distributor expects from you.
So you should pay like a get $1 per this cereal.
$1.
Does the product ended up FOB $1?
So that's the mistake the companies do.
They come here, they look prices or they go internet and said, oh, the cereal is $40.
I can do better than that or $5.
(30:29):
I can do it for four.
So listen, it's not for four, it's going to be for one.
So always divide the final price between five.
Sometimes six depending on the buyer.
Sometimes they're very, very cheap.
They tend to put the price very low because they're comparing with China.
But right now with everything happened with China in Canada, it's not looking good for
(30:50):
the products from the Chinese market.
So opens another opportunity for other countries.
Okay.
Yeah.
So Maria, that was amazing conversation.
I say yes.
At least for me, this was extremely interesting.
I hope that the listeners will also value that information.
(31:12):
And I think that we could talk more hours, more further, but we are already talking quite
out of time.
So unfortunately, we need to finish this lovely conversation.
Thank you, Dimitri.
Thank you for this opportunity once again.
I hope it was useful.
(31:32):
I hope the companies get a little glimpse of what's happening right now and also open
their eyes for opportunities and potential opportunities into the market.
I know they will have lots of questions, so they will direct the questions directly to
you.
Do you have my information?
Do you feel like at one point anybody can contact me?
(31:56):
And also I am in LinkedIn.
You can always look for me and I'm here to support in any possible way.
If you don't mind, I will add the link to your profile to the description of the episode.
That will be good.
That will be excellent.
Great.
Thanks a lot for your time and experience.
And I hope that sometime we will proceed and actually meet in person in Canada.
(32:19):
That will be great.
Or in Ukraine.
I'm here looking forward.
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