July 27, 2025 • 53 mins
In this episode of Starter Girlz, Devon Kerns—known as the King of Curiosity, Chaos, and Stillness—shares how emotional chaos and deep personal loss became the catalyst for his greatest transformation. As a transformational guide, speaker, and entrepreneur, Devon has helped countless individuals find clarity, healing, and purpose through curiosity and inner work.
This conversation explores the power of curiosity, the role of psychedelics in emotional healing, and why chaos is often the first step toward awakening. Whether you're feeling stuck, navigating grief, or seeking deeper meaning, Devon offers a powerful perspective on how to turn discomfort into growth and healing.
What you’ll learn:
✅ Why curiosity is a powerful tool for healing
✅ How emotional chaos can trigger spiritual awakening
✅ The role of psychedelics and plant medicine in transformation
✅ How to sit with discomfort rather than escape it
✅ The link between presence, consciousness, and AI
✅ Why love, connection, and stillness are core to growth
Devon’s insights are grounded in lived experience and radical honesty. This episode is both thought-provoking and inspiring—perfect for anyone navigating the messy but meaningful path of personal growth.
🔗 Learn more about Devon:
www.devonkkerns.com
🎧 Love this episode?
Subscribe to Starter Girlz for more stories, strategies, and inspiration to thrive in all areas of life.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Devon Kerns (00:00):
I really had some big questions, and so I walked
into libraries and I startedpicking up business books.
I walked into spaces where Ijust wanted to absorb and learn
more, and I had people come intomy life that were influential
as well, both in spiritualityand everything else from 18 to
21.
Had incredible mind-bendingencounters with animals and
(00:21):
beings and just nutty stuff thatwe might dive into.
But at the end of the day, Ireally started finding this fire
in me to build something and tolead in the world of
entrepreneurship, because onething that I had discovered and
still feel a fire for is nomatter how bad it gets, I still
can hold on to the dream,because the dream is bigger than
(00:42):
what I'm doing.
And so when people ask me today, like, what do you do?
Jennifer Loehding (00:49):
Welcome to the Starter Girlz podcast, your
ultimate source of inspirationand empowerment.
We're here to help womensucceed in every area of their
lives career, money,relationships, and health and
well-being while celebrating theremarkable journeys of
individuals from all walks oflife who've achieved amazing
things.
Whether you're looking tosupercharge your career, build
(01:11):
financial independence, nurturemeaningful relationships or
enhance your overall well-being,the Starter Girls podcast is
here to guide you.
Join us as we explore thejourneys of those who dare to
dream big and achieve greatness.
I'm your host, jenniferLoehding, and welcome to this
episode.
(01:35):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Starter Girlz podcast.
Wherever you are tuning intoday, we are so glad to have
you, and I always like to saythis show is, you know, about
celebrating the disruptors andthe people that are defying the
norms and all of those goodthings.
So I think this is going to bea fun episode today and I want
to open up with this I thinkit's going to be great.
(01:57):
So today's guest is one ofthose rare voices who doesn't
just talk about change.
He embodies it.
While the world is busy tryingto become somebody, my guest has
chosen a different path, onerooted in service, humility and
transformation.
His approach isn't about titlesor recognitions.
It's about being fully present,deeply human and radically
(02:19):
honest, and that's exactly what,I think, makes Sim
unforgettable, and so we lovethat on Starter Girls because we
like people that areunforgettable right.
And so you guys are going to, Ithink, get to hear some great
dialogue today.
I'm so excited to chat with him.
But before we do that, I doneed to do a quick shout out to
our sponsor.
This episode is brought to youby Walt Mills Productions.
(02:40):
Need to add excitement to yourYouTube videos or some expert
hands for editing?
Look no further.
Walt Mills is the solutionyou've been searching for.
Walt is not only your go-to guyfor spicing up content.
He's the force behind athriving film production company
with numerous titles in thepipeline.
Always on the lookout for rawtalent, Walt is eager to
collaborate on film and internetproductions.
(03:02):
With a background deeply rootedin entertainment and promotion,
walt Mills leverages years ofskills to give you the spotlight
you deserve.
Want to learn more about Waltand his work?
Head on over towaltmillsproductionsnet and let
your content shine All right,and with that I do want to make
a mention to head back over tostartergirlz.
com.
I know you guys hear me say thisevery single week.
(03:24):
But it's so important that youget over there, and why?
Because if you have missed anyepisode, you can catch up with
all of them, even the really badones in the beginning, they're
still out there.
And then, of course, you canalways keep up with what's going
on, so you won't miss anepisode, and keep up with our
newsletter, community happenings, all that good stuff.
But also, if you are a you know, maybe an aspiring entrepreneur
(03:50):
, or maybe you've already beenout there doing your thing and
you want to learn what yournumber one subconscious block is
that may be hindering yoursuccess, well, I have created a
fun two minute quiz over there.
It's fun, free, you can take itand it will give you some
insight into what may beimpacting your success right now
.
So head on over tostartergirlscom and take care of
business.
All right, let's get our gueston today.
So my guest today Devon Kerns,an entrepreneur, speaker and
(04:13):
transformational guide, oftencalled the king of curiosity,
chaos and stillness, which Ilike this title.
I want to talk about that.
With more than 25 years ofexperience launching companies
in wellness, tech andsustainable development and over
11,000 hours spent coaching andleading high-impact individuals
, Devon doesn't just inspirechange.
(04:33):
He embodies it From psychedelicexploration to conscious
capitalism.
Devon weaves together business,spirituality and human
evolution in a way that's raw,real and radically
thought-provoking.
So I have a feeling thisconversation is going to be like
a fun back and forth and I haveno idea where it's going to go.
But, devin, I want to welcomeyou to the starter girl show
(04:57):
thank you.
Devon Kerns (04:58):
I always get nervous with that kind of
introduction, um, because now Ifeel like the standards are
really high and you know what,sometimes I'm just boring.
Jennifer Loehding (05:07):
Yeah, but hey , boring is good sometimes, but
you know what I think sometimesjust being you don't always have
to be like crazy to beinteresting.
You know what I mean.
I think sometimes the calm andthe still is good too and
interesting.
Right, I mean, think about it.
You talk about people, you know, like when you, when you see
people that are just not doing,saying anything, and you wonder
(05:30):
like what's going on in there,right, like what are they
thinking, you know, and so I'mexcited to chat with you.
I think it's going to be a goodconversation today.
Devon Kerns (05:38):
Same.
Yeah, I enjoyed getting to knowyou and I'm excited for this
one.
Jennifer Loehding (05:42):
Yeah, all right.
So let's talk about this likewhat you got going on because
you know, like it's thisconversation that we were kind
of addressing before we gotonline here is that we go out,
we meet people and they're like,hey, what is this that you do?
You know, and I sometimes feellike, you know, I walk into
these networking events and it'slike you got 10 seconds to try
to tell somebody what you do andI'm like we're going to have to
(06:10):
have a conversation because Igot a lot more depth than that
20 words that I just told youright there.
So I want to know from you and,you know, enlighten our
audience a little bit about whatis, who is Devon, and what is
this all about that you're doing?
Devon Kerns (06:19):
You just said how hard that was, and then you
asked the question.
Jennifer Loehding (06:22):
I question I know right, but you got more
than 20.
You get more than 20 words,that's the cool thing.
Devon Kerns (06:27):
Oh, perfect, okay, good, um, man, the the summary
is is, I think, fairly simple.
Um, I have experienced a lot ina very what I would deem short
period of time, or feels prettyshort.
It's been 47 years.
But I was very fortunate togrow up here in Colorado.
(06:49):
I had a dad who was anentrepreneur.
He was number one in realestate here in Denver, president
of the Denver Metro Board ofRealtors, president of the
Kiwanis Club, and so for atleast the first five years I
don't know if I kind of had thattrickling into my brain at a
very young, open age I'm sure Idid.
(07:11):
We had, you know, like thefounder of Remax over for
barbecues and things like that.
So I was always around it and Isaw the success that it brought
.
We were pretty fortunate at ayoung age, or at least I grew up
in a very fortunate space and Ialso saw the consequence of it.
I saw that dream get rippedfrom my dad because of external
(07:34):
environments right, because ofthe marketplace in the 80s and
the crash and real estate justgot tanked here in Colorado, and
I watched the light dim fromhis eyes and how lost he was
because he'd been soself-dependent since he was
really 16 years old and so Iwatched that fade and I watched
(07:55):
him deteriorate and his mentalstate and he at one point was a
pretty hardcore alcoholic for afew years.
He was abusive, he was lost andI was really the only one let
in when he was diagnosed withbipolar at that time because he
had been sleeping well and nottaking care of his brain and I
(08:15):
would sit with him in thesestates of depression and I would
sit with him in these states ofenlightenment.
I deem them enlightenment.
Today we call that manic.
He was getting lots ofdownloads and not all of them
made sense to us logically, butI'd look at him and I saw that
you could kind of see this lightin his eyes and confusion
(08:41):
because he couldn't figure outwhat was happening in his body,
in his mind.
And confusion because hecouldn't figure out what was
happening in his body, in hismind.
And I say all that because, ifI fast forward to 13, from about
5 to 13 years old, weexperienced all this chaos and
ended up moving to Florida andjust watching him fall deeper
and deeper down that hole.
He ended up taking his lifewhen I was 13 years old and then
(09:03):
, within about a six-monthperiod, I lost about six other
people family members to cancerand murder and all kinds of
crazy things.
It was wild and, as you canimagine, at 13, 14 years old,
everything is flipped upsidedown at that point in time and
(09:23):
really two things happen.
I faced our world and oursystems with raging curiosity as
to why it felt so broken.
And yet people were projectingthe same things on me Go to
school, get good grades, blah,blah, blah.
(09:44):
And I never understood school.
I never understood any of thosethings.
I could never get a straightanswer from a teacher or a
parent as to why grades mattered.
I looked at my older brothersand they were off doing whatever
they were doing, and I'm like,they don't even know what
they're doing and they're older,right, and I questioned
(10:05):
religion.
They don't even know whatthey're doing, and they're older
, right, and I questionedreligion and I questioned
everything.
I grew up in a Christian homeand I was looking at these
pastors who were telling meabout God and here I just lost
all these people.
And yet I could feel somethingthere.
There was something profoundand deep for me, but the dogma I
didn't get and I was really ina state of like what is
(10:25):
happening, and so all I did wasgo to the beach in Florida and
sit or go into the ocean andswim, and I'd skipped school for
a long period of time.
I figured out and calculatedhow to break the rules but break
them well, how to break therules but break them well, and
by the time I was 18 and I facedthis time to go off on your own
(10:52):
, but it's time to go to collegeand do more of the thing that
you don't really want to do.
I really had some big questions, and so I walked into libraries
and I started picking upbusiness books.
I walked into spaces where Ijust wanted to absorb and learn
more, and I had people come intomy life that were influential
as well, both in spiritualityand everything else, from 18 to
21, had incredible mind-bendingencounters with animals and
(11:17):
beings and just nutty stuff thatwe might dive into.
But at the end of the day, Ireally started finding this fire
in me to build something and tolead in the world of
entrepreneurship.
Because one thing that I haddiscovered and still feel a fire
(11:37):
for is no matter how bad itgets, I still can hold on to the
dream, because the dream isbigger than what I'm doing.
And so when people ask me today, like, what do you do?
No matter what I'm touching,I'm focusing on the human
capital.
I'm focusing on the humansthemselves, because, even with
(11:58):
AI, right Today, in this worldwhere AI is going to replace the
vast majority of workers, today, in this world where AI is
going to replace the vastmajority of workers, I can't
help but think what liberationthat is for us to explore
humanity at a level to which wearen't wasting 40 to 80 to 100
hours a week to work and doright.
That doesn't mean not create,it just means we don't have to
(12:27):
be the doer of it all because wecan leverage tech right.
And I am an optimist, but I'mmore of an idealist, and so I
really just love working withthe humans and keeping that
light in their eyes and theirmind, coherent with their heart
and leading from the heart space, not the mind.
The mind, to me, is a servant ofmy purpose and if it ever takes
(12:49):
over control, I feel out ofalignment and I have to do the
work and the practices that I'vebeen doing for years to realign
back to that heart knowledgeand that spirit knowledge that
drives me beyond what my mindthinks, and it always ends up
being this or something more.
It's always greater than what Iwould imagine, so my hope is
(13:11):
that I can show as many peopleas possible.
That's part of the reason I'meven doing podcasts.
I don't people ask me all thetime.
So what do you want to get outof this?
I'm like a different world,like I don't know.
I'm not delusional enough tothink that I'm that special, but
at the same time, if I'm notdoing it, I'm not playing my
role and I'm not answering mycall Right?
So how are we getting people tounderstand the game we've been
(13:32):
playing may not be the game thatwe need to be playing from this
point forward say on this?
Jennifer Loehding (13:39):
First of all, I got chills listening to you
because I don't know if anybodyelse I know there are going to
be people out there hear thisand it's going to totally
resonate.
They're going to hear it Like Iget exactly what you're saying
and it's interesting becausethis is, I think, where you and
I are doing similar work.
Our methods and all themethodologies of things we're
(14:00):
doing may be different, but thecore at the center of the human
condition, like right, that's atthe center of it.
And that's what I was, you know, like in the entrepreneur space
.
Like I was telling someone theother day like people are like
what is your ideal client?
Like who comes to you, and I'mlike, oh my gosh, that could be
anybody.
That could be a person walkingin the door that needs keto
coaching.
It could be a person walking inthe door that needs podcast
(14:23):
coaching.
It could be a person walking inthe door that simply needs life
coaching.
It could be.
The other day I got a call froma mother that's trying to help
her daughter learn how to doketo right, and I'm listening to
her talk and all the things I'mgoing through.
You know, when I'm listeningI'm thinking this is not just
about one person.
This is about the dynamicsgoing on in her world, her
(14:44):
family, everything right.
And so what I told her when Iwas going through all this is
that it wasn't just aboutworking with teaching the keto.
It's about helping theindividual, the person, the
human right, because nothing wedo is really going to stick or
change unless we get right withus.
We have to get right with ourpurpose, our calling, what's
(15:05):
important to us, because that'sreally what's driving everything
, and if it's not in alignment,no matter how logic our brain is
to tell us to do things,they're not gonna line up.
You're gonna fight it.
So all of this that you'retalking about, on so many levels
, it's like, oh my gosh, likethis is what I'm talking about.
It might work Like.
This is what I'm talking about,and this is why I bring all of
you on here, because you guysare really, you're just at the
(15:27):
core of what I'm saying.
But a lot of people are comingon, are really the extension of
all these pieces that I'mtalking about, because we could
all day say you know, I'm goingto get better at being a better
financial.
You know, better with myfinances, better with my
relationships better with all ofthese.
But it's really it starts withus, it's all about us, and when
(15:52):
we get us right and healthy andI like to say thriving right,
satisfaction, all of thosethings, I feel like all those
other things get easier tonavigate in life, right?
Less emphasis on those externalthings, it becomes a little
smoother those external thingsit becomes a little smoother,
fluid, I think.
So I love everything you'retalking about, yeah, and I also
want to even say you know all ofthese things that you, these
things that you had experienced.
(16:13):
You mentioned early on thecuriosity and I've had.
You know, so many people comeon here and they've referenced
you know all of this isdifferent light seekers,
different types of people.
But here's something I hadsomebody the other day that was
she was a doctor that you know,early 50s.
She had a private practice fora while and then got burnt out.
And we were talking aboutleading with curiosity, that you
(16:36):
always need to be leading withcuriosity, and I think that
there are some of us that, froma very young age, question
everything, like I've alwaysbeen that way, like if you tell
me something, I don't like thedogma of something.
So if you're telling mesomething and you can't back
that up a hundred percent, youbetter believe I'm going to go
question, I'm going to go lookat it myself and I will.
I may be wrong, I may be deadwrong, devin, at the end of the
(16:57):
day, but I have to figure thatout for myself and I need to
know that.
You and I need to know thathave that answer.
And so when you're talkingabout all this curiosity, I
think that's what provokes a lotof that deep searching, that
you had these experiences thatforced you to question humanity,
question everything we knewgrowing up, and to start going
(17:18):
on your own spiritual journeyand figuring out some of those.
And do we have all the answers?
No, I don't know that we everwill, right.
Devon Kerns (17:36):
But it gives us the path to keep questioning and
looking.
You know, curiosity andquestions are going to be the
key for any individual from thispoint forward, and it's always
been important in terms of theevolution of whatever you decide
(17:58):
you want to create in the world.
But even when I look at usingthe technology and we brought up
AI a little while ago the moreyou can structure potent
questions using a tool that hasbasically or soon to be infinite
(18:19):
knowledge, you don't need toknow anything anymore.
Yeah, and you know the simplestway of looking at this, I guess
(18:43):
, even though it'sincomprehensible to me, I have
some idea around this and I'vebeen sitting with people you
know who are on ethical AIboards and working with the
government for ethical AI, andsome are really concerned.
Some believe what I believe,which is it's going to be pretty
liberating for us.
There's going to be someheaviness around it for a period
(19:09):
of time, but at the end of theday, if anything you wanted to
know could not just be known butresearched and cross-referenced
within nanoseconds, so if I'mthinking about God and we ask
the question about God,researched and cross-referenced
within nanoseconds yeah.
So if I'm thinking about God andwe ask the question about God,
tell me the framework, in 10different paragraphs, of all
(19:35):
perspectives that you can findaround, who God is, something
that's so ethereal and sountouchable ethereal and so
untouchable.
And within literally 15 seconds, you have this format laid out,
with these 10 paragraphs,breaking down from science to
(19:56):
the craziest religions andpinpointing all the common
denominators between all thosewhich, by the way, somebody has
done and many people are doingit now.
But what do you think is thesingle most common word used in
all spiritual contexts when itcomes to God and spirituality?
Most common word, the number oneword across the board, I want
(20:22):
to say God.
That's also maybe one of themost obvious.
Jennifer Loehding (20:24):
I want to say God, but is it something else?
Love, love, oh yeah,interesting.
You know what?
Oh, that raises a whole otherthing, a whole other, oh my gosh
.
But go back to this AIconversation that you're talking
about here.
I agree with you because whenyou I was just having a
conversation with somebodyyesterday on how to use AI
(20:45):
because I use it for everythingpretty much, like I mean, I do
go back and, like you know, I'mnot going to copy and paste
everything from AI to somethingright, but what I use it for is
for brainstorming, a lot likegetting ideas, like trying to
craft my ideas, because a lot oftimes I will have something
like you're talking about here,about finding the different
paragraphs about God.
But it may be something where,like we'll give you a good
(21:07):
example Talking to one of myfriends yesterday and she's
trying to figure out how tobrand, she's been with a company
, a singular company.
Now what she's doing is kind oflike we're doing where we've got
different things going on andit's like how do you now brand
Devin?
Or how do you brand Jennifer?
Because if I just said Jenniferhas keto coaching, that's here
Jennifer can do nervous systemtraining.
(21:28):
Over here Jennifer can do lifecoaching.
That's a lot right.
So we're trying to pull it inon how do we unify that.
And so I told her you just gotto go into the chat GPT and
you've got to get really good atasking questions, and what I
mean by that is, if you don'tlike something, ask it another
question, keep doing it till youget what the answer is that you
want.
You know, you just keep askingthese questions, it will respond
(21:50):
, it will talk back to you.
I mean, you know, and so thatwas the thing.
And so, yeah, I'm with you inthat.
I think there is a lot of gooduse in it, that it could really
help us, you know, work smarter,be more effective.
But you know what I think?
People are so like hesitant alot of times because it's change
(22:10):
, you know, and it's when newthings, when new things come out
, people just automaticallypanic and they don't want to
embrace the new.
But I'm like you.
I think if something's workingbetter, we need to learn to
pivot and embrace, you know, andthere I mean yeah, yeah, we've
always.
Devon Kerns (22:28):
We had concern about tv, right, and then we had
concern about cell phones andall those things, this one yeah,
yeah, exactly now, this this isI mean this fundamentally is
different, right, the deeper yougo down the rabbit hole of
really understanding what iscoming, particularly when you
add things like willow, thequantum chip and all these other
mind-bending um consciousstates that technology will
(22:56):
reach, um, I get the fear.
Yeah, right, I understand why.
That would actually be fearfulfor people who who've created it
right, and most of them whocreated it, are like at this
point, we kind of don't knowwhere this is totally going.
Yeah, we have some concerns, wehave some guesses.
(23:16):
Unfortunately, most of them havea doom and gloom outlook to it
um, I actually again, I I getthe doom and gloom and I get the
fact that human beings there is, unfortunately, really bad
people on the planet that willharness this in ways that are
not good.
The fear of AI itself, meaningwhen AI takes over, that concept
(23:43):
is fascinating to me becauseit's a human projection onto
something that doesn't have thefundamental human fear that
drives most of our darkness.
Yeah, right, our fear tosurvive creates tribe and our
tribe creates.
You're different than I am andso therefore, because you're
different, I don't know what todo of you, with you, and so'm
afraid of you and you'rethreatening my survival.
(24:04):
So I need to eradicate that.
Right.
Right, this technology has nofear.
It cannot die, and because itcannot die and because it has no
fear of death, it has no needto control things, and so that's
where I'm coming from, from.
A fundamental like AI may notbe the thing we need to fear.
People with AI could be thething we need to fear.
(24:26):
People with AI could be thething we need to fear and how we
use it to your point right nowis a tremendous tool.
But the deeper you go with thisthing and the more curious and
the more you actually challengeit, the more you can see that
it's changing on a rapid basisto become a self-thinking and,
in many ways, a very connectedstate of consciousness.
(24:49):
That's where it's going to getvery interesting for all of us.
And so you know I don't.
I have a deep empathy forpeople who live in fear of
anything and at the same time,at some point we got to break
for you this shit.
You know what I mean.
I know it's driven so muchstuff on our planet.
Jennifer Loehding (25:08):
Yeah, you can spend your whole life being
fearful of everything, right, Ifyou really sit and think about
it, go down a rabbit hole.
And if you're curious enough todo all that, you know sometimes
you just have to.
You know, I guess, buckle upand, you know, put the straps on
and go.
You're not going to be able tocontrol it anyways.
Right, it's kind of how I feelabout my, you know, like I told
you, my son buying a motorcycle.
You know, at some point you'vegot to stop trying to control,
(25:30):
You're not good at control yeahwe've never actually been in
true control.
Devon Kerns (25:34):
No individual has.
Yeah exactly, and there'salways balance.
There's always balance on theplanet and I believe in that
wholly.
And so, yeah, I just, and whenyou don't get triggered by those
fears, you can help create thatbalance.
(25:57):
You can help play a role in theother side of the equation when
so many people are driven byfear and the density that comes
from that.
Jennifer Loehding (26:00):
So yeah, yeah , well, you're definitely
interesting.
I want to touch upon, because Imentioned a little bit in the
intro about the psychedelics,and I had another girl on my
show I think I shared this withyou a while back.
She was a news, I think, a TVanchor, and then she grew up,
she was a preacher's daughterand then something happened to
her and then she started bingedrinking and so she was going to
(26:23):
her job, successful, on theoutside, binge drinking, and so
she was, you know, going to herjob, successful, you know, on
the outside, binge drinking onthe back, and she started doing
like micro dosing to help herheal and that's kind of her
thing now and so I don't, I knowyou, we mentioned that, like I
said a little bit, I wanted youto talk just a little bit about
that, cause this is like an Ifeel like it's not a new thing,
but it is kind of a new thingfor people and it's different.
(26:44):
You know what I mean.
So maybe share a little bitabout you know you can.
Just you know what yourexperience is with that or
however you want to take that.
Devon Kerns (26:52):
I'll go as far as you want to go.
I probably won't go too deep,unless, unless you're asking the
questions.
But on my end, I don't know howto micro things, so I macro
this, I don't understand themicro.
Jennifer Loehding (27:08):
I don't know how that all is either.
No.
Devon Kerns (27:11):
I'm partially kidding, but I do full ceremony
experiences, right, I'm not justdoing it for a mental health
capacity.
I have seen some stuff andreally opened up some windows to
states of consciousness thatare far beyond anything that I
was prepared for.
It was 2017 when I did my firstayahuasca journey, and, for
(27:33):
those that may not know,ayahuasca is a blend of a root
of a tree and a vine, of a treeor a vine and a leaf in the
Amazon, and there are variationsof this.
One is known as Yahe, one isknown as Ayahuasca, one is in uh
.
Yahe is from Columbia,ayahuasca is predominantly from
(27:56):
Peru, but now it's kind of allover, right, um and the the
purpose, my intention.
You know a lot of people gointo these ceremonies and these
experiences for the sake ofhealing.
I've done a lot of healing in mylife.
I've worked with a lot ofpeople to do a lot of healing.
(28:16):
I know that there's always moreto release I'll kind of put it
that way but I don't believethat we are actually broken.
I think that it's our judgmentof oneself that leads us to more
brokenness, right, and so I'vereally worked hard to look at
expansion instead of judgmentand brokenness, and so when I
(28:36):
went into this ceremony, I asked, from a hypothetical
perspective, if this medicinereally does what I'm being told
that it can do and give meaccess to states of
consciousness, or maybe evenaccess to the creator and source
itself, deities and beings orwhatever else wants to come to
me.
Show me how big this game is,show me how big we can play,
(28:58):
show me what this humanexperience is all about.
I wanted expansion, notcontraction and healing, not
contraction and healing, and Iwas.
I can tell you I went frombelieving that we are one and
that we are connected to allthings in this universe to a
definitive knowing.
And when you can leave anexperience, not only with a lot
(29:22):
of work being done meaning thethings that were in my way of
experiencing something that bigwere removed there's this
purging experience during anayahuasca ceremony, where you're
releasing things energeticallyand physically that may be
blocking you from expansion.
And when you can move intoknowing, you become unshakable.
When you can move into knowing,you become unshakable, and that
(29:47):
unwavering aspect of youchanges people without having to
do anything.
It changes you on a consistentbasis because you can't forget
what you just experienced,particularly when you're
focusing on the integration.
A lot of people will go do themedicine, have this peak
experience or a lot of healing,but then they lose themselves
(30:08):
afterwards and they go back tothe habitual nature of where
they were and they feel likethey have to do it all over
again.
I've done now this weekend willbe my 40th ayahuasca
journey-ish hundreds ofpsilocybin journeys and other
medicines.
I lean towards plant-based, eventhough that seems to trigger
(30:30):
people more.
I think if it came from theearth might be more interesting
than man-made.
I don't always trust man-made,but I have had incredible
experiences on LSD and ketamineand different things.
But the reason I've gone backis because it's like chapters of
a book.
For me it's been the next layerto the embodiment of my
(30:53):
spiritual practice into my cells, into my very bones, so that I
am a walking, living, breathingexample of how to be human, not
how to be spiritual.
My biggest takeaway from thisentire experience is that I know
nothing and that I absolutelylove devening.
(31:20):
I love being human.
My most anxiety today and Iheard this on some guy who was
it was a clip from an interviewhe did on his podcast on a
podcast and I felt it so deeplyhe goes.
Anxiety is not from us losingourselves in our mind, it's the
(31:45):
idea that your spirit came hereto human.
And particularly in thespiritual community we see so
many people trying to spiritinstead of human, and I get it
because for me, I tell people ifthis game is true, I'm willing
to admit maybe we just turn todust and nothing happens and I'm
okay with that too.
(32:05):
But at the end of the day, Ithink I have experienced
differently and I know somethingelse is there and I'm certain
that I was spirit before I camehere.
I will be spirit when I leaveand I am spirit embodied in
human, and because of that myspirit came to human, which
(32:28):
means my goal isn'tenlightenment, my goal is to
human as best I can, to screw itup and put it all back together
again, to give myself fullpermission to allow that which
came here for the roller coasterride that we call human to ride
it as great as possible in allthe things that occur, knowing
that all those things are why Icame here and when you can fully
(32:50):
embody that.
I can't tell you how liberatingthat is and, more importantly,
the synchronicities and the flowof life, regardless of the
circumstance I don't mean joyand happiness and it's good all
the time.
I mean in the depth of the pain.
You can sit there andappreciate it, because this is
(33:11):
the ride that I came for.
The tears are it the emoting,the states of being that 100% is
the part of the entire process,and to run from any of that is
what creates that anxiousness.
It's the wanting to disconnectfrom the human experience that
(33:32):
creates that mind that spiralsout of control and beats itself
up into oblivion.
And I think that our world isin a chaotic state right now for
no other reason than to shakeup the foundation of our truth,
so that we can start askingthese powerful questions and
move into curiosity and discoverwhy we're here.
(33:54):
And it is to purely be existinghere and now and enjoying that
process and all that comes withit the density, the lightness,
the pain, the joy.
And when we can immerseourselves in it, the whole
entire game will change.
And when we can eradicatejudgment, judgment is the key.
(34:16):
Judgment and resistance are thekey to suffering.
Jennifer Loehding (34:19):
Yeah, devin, that was good.
You know what I got everythingyou were saying and you know
what.
There are people that are goingto listen to.
There are people that are goingto listen to this and they're
going to totally feel everythingyou just said they're going to.
It's going to resonate andthey're going to be some of the
people are going big wordyperson.
I would say.
It's this knowingness of whoyou are, what you're doing and
(34:50):
and being okay in your skin.
That's what I hear when I hear.
All of this is just this, thisfreeness to experience the human
condition being okay withoutthe judgment being and I and I
would take this so far becauseI've had this conversation you
know, when we talk about regrets, let's talk about regrets Like
I'm a no regret person, like Ithink that everything happens
(35:12):
and I've had some not like you,but I've had some really crappy
things.
I mean.
I was married to a guy that wasin drugs and abusive and I left
that, went into another one andthen I, you know, I've had, you
know, bad things happen withinmy family, different things that
have happened over the years,but here's what I will say about
(35:32):
this.
And I did that because I gotdiagnosed with two rare health
conditions that doctors don'teven know what to deal with and
I've had to learn to navigatethem.
I don't regret any of thethings that have happened in my
life.
If you'd asked me this question, maybe you know, 10 years ago,
before I went on this, probablythis kind of journey like you
started, where I startedquestioning why was, why was I
(35:54):
chosen to have these thingshappen to me?
You know, I now know andrealize that I have a voice and
I think that I was givenpermission to speak to people
and give people an opportunityto understand that you can live
this human condition we'retalking about and survive, and
you're going to have bad things,you know, but you can survive
(36:15):
right.
So I don't have regrets.
I don't have regrets and Ithink that the reason I'm okay
with that now is because I'mokay with where I am and what
I'm doing and who I am and I'mokay with the good and the bad,
and I know that that's going tohappen, and so I think it's a
knowing, I think it's a wisdomthing.
(36:37):
I don't know when people hitthat journey and I don't know
that everybody does.
I think those of us that arecurious, ask questions, go soul
searching, do the deep work, allof that there's like a cross
point.
They, there's some, there's a Idon't know where that line is,
but it's crosses over and andyou have a different.
You have a whole different viewof life.
(36:58):
You just look at things verydifferently, you know.
And so that's why, like whenyou you mentioned something
about the pain and all that.
This is why I say, even in thedepths of junk, like the bad, if
you really get in there and youdig, you can find something in
there.
You can find something fromthat that you needed to learn,
you needed to know, you neededto grab from that experience.
And that's how I approach lifeand, like you, I don't say it's
(37:23):
always happy.
I get mad, I get frustrated,sometimes I get unhappy, but
most of the time, overall, Ifeel like I wake up every day
content.
I wake up feeling okay, youknow, we got a little thumb.
We got thumbs up in our deal?
Devon Kerns (37:38):
I don't know, what that came from.
Jennifer Loehding (37:42):
Somebody liked it we were talking about
we'd be talking some good stuffhere.
So I just want to say I getlike I can feel totally and hear
what you're saying and I thinkit's a beautiful thing, it's a
comfortableness, it's an okaywith where you are and what
you're doing, and that's why youmentioned early on no matter
what you do, it doesn't matter,because it's the human condition
(38:02):
.
That's what we're talking about.
We've talked about AI, allthese different things, but it's
really at the core about beinghuman, asking questions, being
curious, embracing life,enjoying it.
Where you are asking questions,being curious, embracing life,
enjoying it where you are.
Devon Kerns (38:15):
You know, I do feel I mean.
What's hitting me right now too, in this conversation is and I
understand this point of view alot of people are like well, but
what about the suffering on theplanet?
Right, it's easy to have thisconversation when we live over
here in America and go oh, thepain is, you can work through it
when there's bombs dropping,right.
Jennifer Loehding (38:36):
Right, exactly.
Devon Kerns (38:37):
And I don't.
I will never pretend tounderstand that.
I'm never going to sit here andgo.
I get it, but there's no amountof suffering that I can induce
within me that will solve thatproblem.
What I need to do is capitalizeon the place that I can induce
within me.
That will solve that problem.
What I need to do is capitalizeon the place that I live in
this current moment and be awalking, living, breathing
(39:00):
example of the gift that we have, living in some of these
countries, like the US andothers, that have the ability to
raise our consciousness, to dothis work and to be an example
in the world and then takeaction to create that change.
Because nothing, nothing, thereis zero amount of my deep
(39:21):
empathy and sadness for what'shappening in this world and
getting lost in that.
That's going to shift any of it.
It is only the opposite of that, and so I want to honor those
who feel that so deeply.
And what are we going to doabout it?
Are we stepping up as leaders?
Are we replacing the moronicmindset, the delusional
(39:45):
leadership that we have on bothsides, on all?
Jennifer Loehding (39:49):
sides.
I agree.
Devon Kerns (39:50):
The leaders of the companies that are out there
Cool, right, awesome, good job.
It's time for change.
Jennifer Loehding (39:58):
Get over it look at the grand landscape,
right, like the overarchingthing that's going on here, and
I got my arms moving.
So you know I'm getting excited.
But we start talking about theoverarching issues here and you
(40:20):
and I know you mentioned, youknow, when you went through all
the whatever, how manyparagraphs on AI of finding out
the different religions, andlove was at the center.
These are that's a basic needthat we all need and we get away
from that.
And if we all came back tounderstanding that we're all
here, humans, having a humanexperience, we tend to get so
(40:40):
fixated on our differences asyou mentioned earlier about the
tribes, right.
We get so fixated on ourdifferences and how we're not
alike, instead of recognizingthat we all have a core,
fundamental need that we allwant love.
We all want to be appreciatedand valued and experience love
at some level.
And if we spent more timelooking at the big picture
(41:01):
instead of the minutia and Iknow that's easier said than
done, but I think that we missso many of the big things by
hanging on to the thing, theclinging on to the minutiae
things, and that's why we getinto these patterns of back and
forth.
And so I want, I want to tellyou thank you for bringing up
the paint that you know aboutthe other, the other countries,
(41:22):
whatever, because we are notsitting here on any level saying
we understand what somebody isgoing through.
I will never say I know how youfeel, devin.
I will never say how anybodyfeels.
What I will say to people isthat I recognize that, whatever
it is you're going through, it'shard, and I tell my clients
that Even when I work withpeople, I never try to put
myself in a position to say, oh,I know what you're going
through.
No, because unless you walk theperson's shoes, you never do,
(41:48):
and so I think that's good thatyou said that.
Devon Kerns (41:50):
Yeah, I think it's important and you know just all
of these concepts, right?
My fundamental perspective iswas it working?
Yeah, all right.
And that question in any system, in any part of education, in
(42:11):
any religion, in anything, ifpeople were joyous and happy and
the children were being fed,and we weren't at war and you
weren't anxious and you weren'tdepressed and we weren't
consuming all thesepharmaceuticals and we weren't
doing all these things, I wouldgo yeah, we got this thing
nailed, man, we got this dialedin.
The problem is when we moveinto righteousness about my
(42:34):
minutia and my point of view,thinking that that was right,
and then I turn around and askyou well, is it working for you
or is it working for thosearound you?
And your answer is no.
Jennifer Loehding (42:46):
Got a question right.
We got to look at things.
What are we doing here?
Devon Kerns (42:51):
I agree.
So, then, change is necessary,and at that 30,000-foot view,
everyone is asking for changebecause everyone is exhausted
with the way it's been, and theirony is that the mantra on one
side is we want change but wedon't, and the other one is we
(43:14):
want change but go don't, andthe other one is we want change
but go back to the way it was.
I'm so confused as to whatwe're even talking about right
now.
But the confusion is going tolead people to the conclusion
that you and I are coming to, ifwe are sitting in our curiosity
and sitting in the need tounderstand that what was just
(43:36):
isn't working anymore.
It wasn't perfect.
It's always getting better, butcan we let go and start
accepting the changes that areoccurring Not all of them and
the ones that you don't agreewith?
Explore what is within thatthat we're all really asking for
, instead of staring at thewords, although words are
(43:59):
extremely powerful.
Look at what the aim is, what'sthe intent, and not do you
agree with it, but are you doingsomething about it?
Jennifer Loehding (44:11):
Yeah, Okay, devin so good when I get ready
to get this whole title for thisshow.
I'm going to have so much funwith this one because this is
like totally just a thought.
I knew it was going to bethought provoking when you came
on here and I love it because Ithink you're raising questions.
These are things I talk aboutall the time.
I probably drive my husbandcrazy with them because I'm
always doing this, like I'malways probing and saying but
(44:33):
this thing, this we talk about,doesn't even make sense and why
are we still hanging on to thisif it doesn't the big, I think,
overall message in this entirething we've talked about so much
, but it's really about I'mgoing to get back to the
curiosity, right, curiosity, ifsome look at what we're doing
and this applies, we could takeit all the way down to, let's
(44:54):
say, fundamental.
It could go back to just how youdo your business and how you do
your parenting, right.
I mean, think about it.
If something is not working,you got to stop and you got to
put double downing on this andbeing righteous and saying,
maybe, just maybe, that maybeworked at one time, but maybe
today it doesn't, maybe we needto reassess what's going on and,
(45:16):
I think, if we all try to learn.
I do think you know you have tostay true to your values and
your principles, but I do thinkthat we always should be
investigating and looking andasking questions about
everything.
And besides, if we weren't, howboring would life be if we
weren't Think about it, devin,if you and I weren't out here
probing and asking questions andbeing disruptors and, you know,
(45:37):
just kind of being not goingalong with the status quo, I
mean, our lives would be boring,would they not?
Like I'd be bored, so boring,so boring.
Devon Kerns (45:48):
And I couldn't agree more.
I couldn't agree more.
I think you know the thing I'dadd to the curiosity is and the
reason you know, within that funtitle that you read off, which
is chaos and curiosity, right Iscuriosity is necessary in the
chaos, right?
Yes, chaos is actually thefirst stage to all
(46:09):
transformation, to alltransformation.
And so whatever's happening inyour personal life, whatever's
happening in the world, chaos isthe beginning of true
transformation.
And when you can look at thatfrom an open space, from a place
of curiosity and I don't meanwhy is this happening?
To me, that's one of the worstphrases you could ever ask yeah,
(46:32):
why, I've just eliminated outof my vocabulary in general.
Sorry, simon Sinek, um, but whenI, when I go, how can I, what
can I, what is what's reallygoing on here?
Right, it can pop you up tothat place of creativity or down
(46:55):
to that place of curiosity andcreativity.
Technically, it's from thatsacral chakra, and when you can
play in that creative center andallow for that to open up, you
begin to see things with neweyes and you begin to take on
that pressure of the chaos,whether it's yours or society's,
(47:15):
and you start to feel that fireand the bubbling up of what
you're really here to do in theworld, because you're in a state
of expansion and curiosity andquestions are containers and
expansive and when you unlockthat, something happens within
you and that little flame that'sthere begins to turn into that
(47:37):
fire and you end up finding yourpurpose within the entire game
and it's a beautiful thing to do.
But to honor the chaos and thenmove into curiosity, I think,
is the key to those things.
Jennifer Loehding (47:49):
You can move into curiosity but then get
paralyzed by chaos and itdoesn't really do anything Right
, right, no, and I think a lotof what you talked today you put
it in a really great way.
It's different, you know,because I say a lot of the same
things you're saying, I just sayit differently.
And so I love this, becausesomebody listening to this may
hear this and this dialogueresonates.
(48:10):
They pick up on this and gothat's what he's taught.
That's what it is.
You know, because I've hadpeople ask me that it's like I
think it was.
My husband asked me one day.
I had this conversation.
I said something about when youget to a place of sort of
knowing yourself, you trust yourintuition, and this is what
we've all been saying here iswhere you get okay with this
(48:31):
your human experience.
You recognize that you're goingto screw up and you're not
going to beat yourself up for it, because it's part of the human
condition, right?
You're going to say the wrongthings.
You're going to walk the wrongway.
You're going to put the wrongclothes on.
You're going to make the wrongbusiness decision.
You're going to hang out withthe wrong people.
You're going to say the wrongthing to your kid.
It's going to happen, right,feel paralyzed by making those
(48:51):
mistakes.
What I say to that is I and I'mokay, saying Devin, yeah, I
messed that up, I don't feel badabout myself.
I messed that up.
I made a poor choice, I messedthat up, but it's no longer tied
to my worth as an individual,because I'm okay with me.
And so my husband asked me oneday he's like how do you know?
(49:12):
And I said you just know, youjust wait, I don't.
I don't know what the line is,I don't know.
When you hit that point, youjust get to a place where and I
say this because I know what itfelt like to not be that way I
know what it felt like to be onthe other side, where I was
doubting myself all the time andfeeling insecure and my
achievements were tied to myself-worth and I had to be doing
all these things.
Now I do things because theyhave a purpose and a calling.
(49:34):
Like I told you about thisnetworking thing I'm starting
and all of us can start anetworking group.
Like I'm not excited about that, it's more about what we're
creating, what we're trying todo with it, the mission behind
it.
Right there's, we're in Dallas.
There's networking every day ofthe week, if you want it,
probably all at all hours, Imean maybe, except three o'clock
in the morning.
You know nobody needs anotherone.
But we're trying to create amovement.
(49:56):
We're trying to do somethingdifferent, because that's what
my purpose is and my calling isis I want to make a difference.
I don't want people just goingout and handing business cards.
I want people developingrelationships, because I know
when we get people bonding onsomething other than work, we
get them connecting on adifferent level.
They're pets you and I talkedabout pets, kids, whatever that
(50:19):
is Then they're going to want tobuild relationships.
That's going to be bringingbusiness.
That's going to be creatingmore than us just going hey,
what do you do?
Hi, I'm Jennifer, I do this.
So this knowing, I think, comesfrom all of this dialogue you
and I've had here.
Right, it's, it's it's thatgetting to that place of and
(50:40):
it's not a destination, I thinkit's just you evolve into it and
you get.
I guess people maybe call thatwisdom right.
Like you, you just startgaining wisdom and knowledge.
So I'm excited.
Devin, you're an awesome.
You're awesome.
I love what you're doing.
I know you've got things to do,so here's what I do want to ask
you how do our, how do mypeople get in touch with you?
(51:01):
Somebody here may want tofollow you, connect with you,
might want to learn more aboutyour work.
Where do we want to send them?
Devon Kerns (51:09):
Two of the post on Instagram a lot, but you can
find me easiest places, I'd say,are Instagram.
I don't there, which is atDevon Kearns.
Just my first and last name andthen email me.
It's DevonKKerns at gmailcom.
People don't, right?
(51:29):
I've done hundreds of podcastsnow and who knows how many
people we've reached.
Right, I've put I've donehundreds of podcasts now and who
knows how many people we'vereached.
But uh, at the end of the day,10 people reach out and you're
like cool, so do it, Just reachout.
Yeah, I do follow your page.
Jennifer Loehding (51:45):
Yeah, I follow your page and I tell you
I like it cause it's actuallycomforting, it's a calm, it's a
calm energy and I like itbecause it's very just because
I'm a very high energy, fastpaced person and so if you know
anything about I've talked aboutthis here in workshops about
the nervous system we have highenergy and low energy people and
I tend to have to reallypractice work on practicing
(52:09):
calming.
So I do, you know certaintechniques, nervous system,
things like that to just makemyself force myself.
I study transcendentalmeditation, do a lot of these
things just to make myself takethe calm.
And so I've been on your pageand I'm like, oh, this is nice.
It's just in a busy world wherewe have so much going on, so
much stimuli all the time, it'svery nice.
(52:31):
So for our listeners, if theyneed that definitely can go
check out your page and take thebreather.
So, devon, this has been fun.
I appreciate you, I appreciatewhat you're doing in the world
and to make the world a betterplace, and I know it's not
always easy to be out there andput yourself out there.
But my thing is, if you enjoywhat you're doing and you feel
(52:53):
led to do it, then you're in theright place.
Devon Kerns (52:55):
You know you're thriving and that's cool, so I
just want to commend you on thatand say thank you, same you,
for what you're doing in theworld and bringing people
together and creating that kindof connection.
Jennifer Loehding (53:05):
It's so important today, so thank you,
thank you All right and, ofcourse, to our listeners.
We hope that you find thisepisode, or found it both
inspiring and informative.
That's always the game here isthat we want to inspire you to
do better things and make changesmall change, but if you did go
, do all the things, hit thelike, the share, subscribe,
comment, so that we can keepsharing all of this amazing
(53:27):
content and our message.
And as I always say, in orderto live the extraordinary, you
have to start.
Message.
And as I always say, in orderto live the extraordinary, you
have to start, and every startbegins with a decision.
(53:50):
You guys, take care, be safe,be kind to one another and we
will see you next time.
Thank you.
I really had some big questions, and so I walked
into libraries and I startedpicking up business books.
I walked into spaces where Ijust wanted to absorb and learn
more, and I had people come intomy life that were influential
as well, both in spiritualityand everything else from 18 to
21.
Had incredible mind-bendingencounters with animals and
(00:21):
beings and just nutty stuff thatwe might dive into.
But at the end of the day, Ireally started finding this fire
in me to build something and tolead in the world of
entrepreneurship, because onething that I had discovered and
still feel a fire for is nomatter how bad it gets, I still
can hold on to the dream,because the dream is bigger than
(00:42):
what I'm doing.
And so when people ask me today, like, what do you do?
Jennifer Loehding (00:49):
Welcome to the Starter Girlz podcast, your
ultimate source of inspirationand empowerment.
We're here to help womensucceed in every area of their
lives career, money,relationships, and health and
well-being while celebrating theremarkable journeys of
individuals from all walks oflife who've achieved amazing
things.
Whether you're looking tosupercharge your career, build
(01:11):
financial independence, nurturemeaningful relationships or
enhance your overall well-being,the Starter Girls podcast is
here to guide you.
Join us as we explore thejourneys of those who dare to
dream big and achieve greatness.
I'm your host, jenniferLoehding, and welcome to this
episode.
(01:35):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Starter Girlz podcast.
Wherever you are tuning intoday, we are so glad to have
you, and I always like to saythis show is, you know, about
celebrating the disruptors andthe people that are defying the
norms and all of those goodthings.
So I think this is going to bea fun episode today and I want
to open up with this I thinkit's going to be great.
(01:57):
So today's guest is one ofthose rare voices who doesn't
just talk about change.
He embodies it.
While the world is busy tryingto become somebody, my guest has
chosen a different path, onerooted in service, humility and
transformation.
His approach isn't about titlesor recognitions.
It's about being fully present,deeply human and radically
(02:19):
honest, and that's exactly what,I think, makes Sim
unforgettable, and so we lovethat on Starter Girls because we
like people that areunforgettable right.
And so you guys are going to, Ithink, get to hear some great
dialogue today.
I'm so excited to chat with him.
But before we do that, I doneed to do a quick shout out to
our sponsor.
This episode is brought to youby Walt Mills Productions.
(02:40):
Need to add excitement to yourYouTube videos or some expert
hands for editing?
Look no further.
Walt Mills is the solutionyou've been searching for.
Walt is not only your go-to guyfor spicing up content.
He's the force behind athriving film production company
with numerous titles in thepipeline.
Always on the lookout for rawtalent, Walt is eager to
collaborate on film and internetproductions.
(03:02):
With a background deeply rootedin entertainment and promotion,
walt Mills leverages years ofskills to give you the spotlight
you deserve.
Want to learn more about Waltand his work?
Head on over towaltmillsproductionsnet and let
your content shine All right,and with that I do want to make
a mention to head back over tostartergirlz.
com.
I know you guys hear me say thisevery single week.
(03:24):
But it's so important that youget over there, and why?
Because if you have missed anyepisode, you can catch up with
all of them, even the really badones in the beginning, they're
still out there.
And then, of course, you canalways keep up with what's going
on, so you won't miss anepisode, and keep up with our
newsletter, community happenings, all that good stuff.
But also, if you are a you know, maybe an aspiring entrepreneur
(03:50):
, or maybe you've already beenout there doing your thing and
you want to learn what yournumber one subconscious block is
that may be hindering yoursuccess, well, I have created a
fun two minute quiz over there.
It's fun, free, you can take itand it will give you some
insight into what may beimpacting your success right now
.
So head on over tostartergirlscom and take care of
business.
All right, let's get our gueston today.
So my guest today Devon Kerns,an entrepreneur, speaker and
(04:13):
transformational guide, oftencalled the king of curiosity,
chaos and stillness, which Ilike this title.
I want to talk about that.
With more than 25 years ofexperience launching companies
in wellness, tech andsustainable development and over
11,000 hours spent coaching andleading high-impact individuals
, Devon doesn't just inspirechange.
(04:33):
He embodies it From psychedelicexploration to conscious
capitalism.
Devon weaves together business,spirituality and human
evolution in a way that's raw,real and radically
thought-provoking.
So I have a feeling thisconversation is going to be like
a fun back and forth and I haveno idea where it's going to go.
But, devin, I want to welcomeyou to the starter girl show
(04:57):
thank you.
Devon Kerns (04:58):
I always get nervous with that kind of
introduction, um, because now Ifeel like the standards are
really high and you know what,sometimes I'm just boring.
Jennifer Loehding (05:07):
Yeah, but hey , boring is good sometimes, but
you know what I think sometimesjust being you don't always have
to be like crazy to beinteresting.
You know what I mean.
I think sometimes the calm andthe still is good too and
interesting.
Right, I mean, think about it.
You talk about people, you know, like when you, when you see
people that are just not doing,saying anything, and you wonder
(05:30):
like what's going on in there,right, like what are they
thinking, you know, and so I'mexcited to chat with you.
I think it's going to be a goodconversation today.
Devon Kerns (05:38):
Same.
Yeah, I enjoyed getting to knowyou and I'm excited for this
one.
Jennifer Loehding (05:42):
Yeah, all right.
So let's talk about this likewhat you got going on because
you know, like it's thisconversation that we were kind
of addressing before we gotonline here is that we go out,
we meet people and they're like,hey, what is this that you do?
You know, and I sometimes feellike, you know, I walk into
these networking events and it'slike you got 10 seconds to try
to tell somebody what you do andI'm like we're going to have to
(06:10):
have a conversation because Igot a lot more depth than that
20 words that I just told youright there.
So I want to know from you and,you know, enlighten our
audience a little bit about whatis, who is Devon, and what is
this all about that you're doing?
Devon Kerns (06:19):
You just said how hard that was, and then you
asked the question.
Jennifer Loehding (06:22):
I question I know right, but you got more
than 20.
You get more than 20 words,that's the cool thing.
Devon Kerns (06:27):
Oh, perfect, okay, good, um, man, the the summary
is is, I think, fairly simple.
Um, I have experienced a lot ina very what I would deem short
period of time, or feels prettyshort.
It's been 47 years.
But I was very fortunate togrow up here in Colorado.
(06:49):
I had a dad who was anentrepreneur.
He was number one in realestate here in Denver, president
of the Denver Metro Board ofRealtors, president of the
Kiwanis Club, and so for atleast the first five years I
don't know if I kind of had thattrickling into my brain at a
very young, open age I'm sure Idid.
(07:11):
We had, you know, like thefounder of Remax over for
barbecues and things like that.
So I was always around it and Isaw the success that it brought
.
We were pretty fortunate at ayoung age, or at least I grew up
in a very fortunate space and Ialso saw the consequence of it.
I saw that dream get rippedfrom my dad because of external
(07:34):
environments right, because ofthe marketplace in the 80s and
the crash and real estate justgot tanked here in Colorado, and
I watched the light dim fromhis eyes and how lost he was
because he'd been soself-dependent since he was
really 16 years old and so Iwatched that fade and I watched
(07:55):
him deteriorate and his mentalstate and he at one point was a
pretty hardcore alcoholic for afew years.
He was abusive, he was lost andI was really the only one let
in when he was diagnosed withbipolar at that time because he
had been sleeping well and nottaking care of his brain and I
(08:15):
would sit with him in thesestates of depression and I would
sit with him in these states ofenlightenment.
I deem them enlightenment.
Today we call that manic.
He was getting lots ofdownloads and not all of them
made sense to us logically, butI'd look at him and I saw that
you could kind of see this lightin his eyes and confusion
(08:41):
because he couldn't figure outwhat was happening in his body,
in his mind.
And confusion because hecouldn't figure out what was
happening in his body, in hismind.
And I say all that because, ifI fast forward to 13, from about
5 to 13 years old, weexperienced all this chaos and
ended up moving to Florida andjust watching him fall deeper
and deeper down that hole.
He ended up taking his lifewhen I was 13 years old and then
(09:03):
, within about a six-monthperiod, I lost about six other
people family members to cancerand murder and all kinds of
crazy things.
It was wild and, as you canimagine, at 13, 14 years old,
everything is flipped upsidedown at that point in time and
(09:23):
really two things happen.
I faced our world and oursystems with raging curiosity as
to why it felt so broken.
And yet people were projectingthe same things on me Go to
school, get good grades, blah,blah, blah.
(09:44):
And I never understood school.
I never understood any of thosethings.
I could never get a straightanswer from a teacher or a
parent as to why grades mattered.
I looked at my older brothersand they were off doing whatever
they were doing, and I'm like,they don't even know what
they're doing and they're older,right, and I questioned
(10:05):
religion.
They don't even know whatthey're doing, and they're older
, right, and I questionedreligion and I questioned
everything.
I grew up in a Christian homeand I was looking at these
pastors who were telling meabout God and here I just lost
all these people.
And yet I could feel somethingthere.
There was something profoundand deep for me, but the dogma I
didn't get and I was really ina state of like what is
(10:25):
happening, and so all I did wasgo to the beach in Florida and
sit or go into the ocean andswim, and I'd skipped school for
a long period of time.
I figured out and calculatedhow to break the rules but break
them well, how to break therules but break them well, and
by the time I was 18 and I facedthis time to go off on your own
(10:52):
, but it's time to go to collegeand do more of the thing that
you don't really want to do.
I really had some big questions, and so I walked into libraries
and I started picking upbusiness books.
I walked into spaces where Ijust wanted to absorb and learn
more, and I had people come intomy life that were influential
as well, both in spiritualityand everything else, from 18 to
21, had incredible mind-bendingencounters with animals and
(11:17):
beings and just nutty stuff thatwe might dive into.
But at the end of the day, Ireally started finding this fire
in me to build something and tolead in the world of
entrepreneurship.
Because one thing that I haddiscovered and still feel a fire
(11:37):
for is no matter how bad itgets, I still can hold on to the
dream, because the dream isbigger than what I'm doing.
And so when people ask me today, like, what do you do?
No matter what I'm touching,I'm focusing on the human
capital.
I'm focusing on the humansthemselves, because, even with
(11:58):
AI, right Today, in this worldwhere AI is going to replace the
vast majority of workers, today, in this world where AI is
going to replace the vastmajority of workers, I can't
help but think what liberationthat is for us to explore
humanity at a level to which wearen't wasting 40 to 80 to 100
hours a week to work and doright.
That doesn't mean not create,it just means we don't have to
(12:27):
be the doer of it all because wecan leverage tech right.
And I am an optimist, but I'mmore of an idealist, and so I
really just love working withthe humans and keeping that
light in their eyes and theirmind, coherent with their heart
and leading from the heart space, not the mind.
The mind, to me, is a servant ofmy purpose and if it ever takes
(12:49):
over control, I feel out ofalignment and I have to do the
work and the practices that I'vebeen doing for years to realign
back to that heart knowledgeand that spirit knowledge that
drives me beyond what my mindthinks, and it always ends up
being this or something more.
It's always greater than what Iwould imagine, so my hope is
(13:11):
that I can show as many peopleas possible.
That's part of the reason I'meven doing podcasts.
I don't people ask me all thetime.
So what do you want to get outof this?
I'm like a different world,like I don't know.
I'm not delusional enough tothink that I'm that special, but
at the same time, if I'm notdoing it, I'm not playing my
role and I'm not answering mycall Right?
So how are we getting people tounderstand the game we've been
(13:32):
playing may not be the game thatwe need to be playing from this
point forward say on this?
Jennifer Loehding (13:39):
First of all, I got chills listening to you
because I don't know if anybodyelse I know there are going to
be people out there hear thisand it's going to totally
resonate.
They're going to hear it Like Iget exactly what you're saying
and it's interesting becausethis is, I think, where you and
I are doing similar work.
Our methods and all themethodologies of things we're
(14:00):
doing may be different, but thecore at the center of the human
condition, like right, that's atthe center of it.
And that's what I was, you know, like in the entrepreneur space
.
Like I was telling someone theother day like people are like
what is your ideal client?
Like who comes to you, and I'mlike, oh my gosh, that could be
anybody.
That could be a person walkingin the door that needs keto
coaching.
It could be a person walking inthe door that needs podcast
(14:23):
coaching.
It could be a person walking inthe door that simply needs life
coaching.
It could be.
The other day I got a call froma mother that's trying to help
her daughter learn how to doketo right, and I'm listening to
her talk and all the things I'mgoing through.
You know, when I'm listeningI'm thinking this is not just
about one person.
This is about the dynamicsgoing on in her world, her
(14:44):
family, everything right.
And so what I told her when Iwas going through all this is
that it wasn't just aboutworking with teaching the keto.
It's about helping theindividual, the person, the
human right, because nothing wedo is really going to stick or
change unless we get right withus.
We have to get right with ourpurpose, our calling, what's
(15:05):
important to us, because that'sreally what's driving everything
, and if it's not in alignment,no matter how logic our brain is
to tell us to do things,they're not gonna line up.
You're gonna fight it.
So all of this that you'retalking about, on so many levels
, it's like, oh my gosh, likethis is what I'm talking about.
It might work Like.
This is what I'm talking about,and this is why I bring all of
you on here, because you guysare really, you're just at the
(15:27):
core of what I'm saying.
But a lot of people are comingon, are really the extension of
all these pieces that I'mtalking about, because we could
all day say you know, I'm goingto get better at being a better
financial.
You know, better with myfinances, better with my
relationships better with all ofthese.
But it's really it starts withus, it's all about us, and when
(15:52):
we get us right and healthy andI like to say thriving right,
satisfaction, all of thosethings, I feel like all those
other things get easier tonavigate in life, right?
Less emphasis on those externalthings, it becomes a little
smoother those external thingsit becomes a little smoother,
fluid, I think.
So I love everything you'retalking about, yeah, and I also
want to even say you know all ofthese things that you, these
things that you had experienced.
(16:13):
You mentioned early on thecuriosity and I've had.
You know, so many people comeon here and they've referenced
you know all of this isdifferent light seekers,
different types of people.
But here's something I hadsomebody the other day that was
she was a doctor that you know,early 50s.
She had a private practice fora while and then got burnt out.
And we were talking aboutleading with curiosity, that you
(16:36):
always need to be leading withcuriosity, and I think that
there are some of us that, froma very young age, question
everything, like I've alwaysbeen that way, like if you tell
me something, I don't like thedogma of something.
So if you're telling mesomething and you can't back
that up a hundred percent, youbetter believe I'm going to go
question, I'm going to go lookat it myself and I will.
I may be wrong, I may be deadwrong, devin, at the end of the
(16:57):
day, but I have to figure thatout for myself and I need to
know that.
You and I need to know thathave that answer.
And so when you're talkingabout all this curiosity, I
think that's what provokes a lotof that deep searching, that
you had these experiences thatforced you to question humanity,
question everything we knewgrowing up, and to start going
(17:18):
on your own spiritual journeyand figuring out some of those.
And do we have all the answers?
No, I don't know that we everwill, right.
Devon Kerns (17:36):
But it gives us the path to keep questioning and
looking.
You know, curiosity andquestions are going to be the
key for any individual from thispoint forward, and it's always
been important in terms of theevolution of whatever you decide
(17:58):
you want to create in the world.
But even when I look at usingthe technology and we brought up
AI a little while ago the moreyou can structure potent
questions using a tool that hasbasically or soon to be infinite
(18:19):
knowledge, you don't need toknow anything anymore.
Yeah, and you know the simplestway of looking at this, I guess
(18:43):
, even though it'sincomprehensible to me, I have
some idea around this and I'vebeen sitting with people you
know who are on ethical AIboards and working with the
government for ethical AI, andsome are really concerned.
Some believe what I believe,which is it's going to be pretty
liberating for us.
There's going to be someheaviness around it for a period
(19:09):
of time, but at the end of theday, if anything you wanted to
know could not just be known butresearched and cross-referenced
within nanoseconds, so if I'mthinking about God and we ask
the question about God,researched and cross-referenced
within nanoseconds yeah.
So if I'm thinking about God andwe ask the question about God,
tell me the framework, in 10different paragraphs, of all
(19:35):
perspectives that you can findaround, who God is, something
that's so ethereal and sountouchable ethereal and so
untouchable.
And within literally 15 seconds, you have this format laid out,
with these 10 paragraphs,breaking down from science to
(19:56):
the craziest religions andpinpointing all the common
denominators between all thosewhich, by the way, somebody has
done and many people are doingit now.
But what do you think is thesingle most common word used in
all spiritual contexts when itcomes to God and spirituality?
Most common word, the number oneword across the board, I want
(20:22):
to say God.
That's also maybe one of themost obvious.
Jennifer Loehding (20:24):
I want to say God, but is it something else?
Love, love, oh yeah,interesting.
You know what?
Oh, that raises a whole otherthing, a whole other, oh my gosh
.
But go back to this AIconversation that you're talking
about here.
I agree with you because whenyou I was just having a
conversation with somebodyyesterday on how to use AI
(20:45):
because I use it for everythingpretty much, like I mean, I do
go back and, like you know, I'mnot going to copy and paste
everything from AI to somethingright, but what I use it for is
for brainstorming, a lot likegetting ideas, like trying to
craft my ideas, because a lot oftimes I will have something
like you're talking about here,about finding the different
paragraphs about God.
But it may be something where,like we'll give you a good
(21:07):
example Talking to one of myfriends yesterday and she's
trying to figure out how tobrand, she's been with a company
, a singular company.
Now what she's doing is kind oflike we're doing where we've got
different things going on andit's like how do you now brand
Devin?
Or how do you brand Jennifer?
Because if I just said Jenniferhas keto coaching, that's here
Jennifer can do nervous systemtraining.
(21:28):
Over here Jennifer can do lifecoaching.
That's a lot right.
So we're trying to pull it inon how do we unify that.
And so I told her you just gotto go into the chat GPT and
you've got to get really good atasking questions, and what I
mean by that is, if you don'tlike something, ask it another
question, keep doing it till youget what the answer is that you
want.
You know, you just keep askingthese questions, it will respond
(21:50):
, it will talk back to you.
I mean, you know, and so thatwas the thing.
And so, yeah, I'm with you inthat.
I think there is a lot of gooduse in it, that it could really
help us, you know, work smarter,be more effective.
But you know what I think?
People are so like hesitant alot of times because it's change
(22:10):
, you know, and it's when newthings, when new things come out
, people just automaticallypanic and they don't want to
embrace the new.
But I'm like you.
I think if something's workingbetter, we need to learn to
pivot and embrace, you know, andthere I mean yeah, yeah, we've
always.
Devon Kerns (22:28):
We had concern about tv, right, and then we had
concern about cell phones andall those things, this one yeah,
yeah, exactly now, this this isI mean this fundamentally is
different, right, the deeper yougo down the rabbit hole of
really understanding what iscoming, particularly when you
add things like willow, thequantum chip and all these other
mind-bending um consciousstates that technology will
(22:56):
reach, um, I get the fear.
Yeah, right, I understand why.
That would actually be fearfulfor people who who've created it
right, and most of them whocreated it, are like at this
point, we kind of don't knowwhere this is totally going.
Yeah, we have some concerns, wehave some guesses.
(23:16):
Unfortunately, most of them havea doom and gloom outlook to it
um, I actually again, I I getthe doom and gloom and I get the
fact that human beings there is, unfortunately, really bad
people on the planet that willharness this in ways that are
not good.
The fear of AI itself, meaningwhen AI takes over, that concept
(23:43):
is fascinating to me becauseit's a human projection onto
something that doesn't have thefundamental human fear that
drives most of our darkness.
Yeah, right, our fear tosurvive creates tribe and our
tribe creates.
You're different than I am andso therefore, because you're
different, I don't know what todo of you, with you, and so'm
afraid of you and you'rethreatening my survival.
(24:04):
So I need to eradicate that.
Right.
Right, this technology has nofear.
It cannot die, and because itcannot die and because it has no
fear of death, it has no needto control things, and so that's
where I'm coming from, from.
A fundamental like AI may notbe the thing we need to fear.
People with AI could be thething we need to fear.
(24:26):
People with AI could be thething we need to fear and how we
use it to your point right nowis a tremendous tool.
But the deeper you go with thisthing and the more curious and
the more you actually challengeit, the more you can see that
it's changing on a rapid basisto become a self-thinking and,
in many ways, a very connectedstate of consciousness.
(24:49):
That's where it's going to getvery interesting for all of us.
And so you know I don't.
I have a deep empathy forpeople who live in fear of
anything and at the same time,at some point we got to break
for you this shit.
You know what I mean.
I know it's driven so muchstuff on our planet.
Jennifer Loehding (25:08):
Yeah, you can spend your whole life being
fearful of everything, right, Ifyou really sit and think about
it, go down a rabbit hole.
And if you're curious enough todo all that, you know sometimes
you just have to.
You know, I guess, buckle upand, you know, put the straps on
and go.
You're not going to be able tocontrol it anyways.
Right, it's kind of how I feelabout my, you know, like I told
you, my son buying a motorcycle.
You know, at some point you'vegot to stop trying to control,
(25:30):
You're not good at control yeahwe've never actually been in
true control.
Devon Kerns (25:34):
No individual has.
Yeah exactly, and there'salways balance.
There's always balance on theplanet and I believe in that
wholly.
And so, yeah, I just, and whenyou don't get triggered by those
fears, you can help create thatbalance.
(25:57):
You can help play a role in theother side of the equation when
so many people are driven byfear and the density that comes
from that.
Jennifer Loehding (26:00):
So yeah, yeah , well, you're definitely
interesting.
I want to touch upon, because Imentioned a little bit in the
intro about the psychedelics,and I had another girl on my
show I think I shared this withyou a while back.
She was a news, I think, a TVanchor, and then she grew up,
she was a preacher's daughterand then something happened to
her and then she started bingedrinking and so she was going to
(26:23):
her job, successful, on theoutside, binge drinking, and so
she was, you know, going to herjob, successful, you know, on
the outside, binge drinking onthe back, and she started doing
like micro dosing to help herheal and that's kind of her
thing now and so I don't, I knowyou, we mentioned that, like I
said a little bit, I wanted youto talk just a little bit about
that, cause this is like an Ifeel like it's not a new thing,
but it is kind of a new thingfor people and it's different.
(26:44):
You know what I mean.
So maybe share a little bitabout you know you can.
Just you know what yourexperience is with that or
however you want to take that.
Devon Kerns (26:52):
I'll go as far as you want to go.
I probably won't go too deep,unless, unless you're asking the
questions.
But on my end, I don't know howto micro things, so I macro
this, I don't understand themicro.
Jennifer Loehding (27:08):
I don't know how that all is either.
No.
Devon Kerns (27:11):
I'm partially kidding, but I do full ceremony
experiences, right, I'm not justdoing it for a mental health
capacity.
I have seen some stuff andreally opened up some windows to
states of consciousness thatare far beyond anything that I
was prepared for.
It was 2017 when I did my firstayahuasca journey, and, for
(27:33):
those that may not know,ayahuasca is a blend of a root
of a tree and a vine, of a treeor a vine and a leaf in the
Amazon, and there are variationsof this.
One is known as Yahe, one isknown as Ayahuasca, one is in uh
.
Yahe is from Columbia,ayahuasca is predominantly from
(27:56):
Peru, but now it's kind of allover, right, um and the the
purpose, my intention.
You know a lot of people gointo these ceremonies and these
experiences for the sake ofhealing.
I've done a lot of healing in mylife.
I've worked with a lot ofpeople to do a lot of healing.
(28:16):
I know that there's always moreto release I'll kind of put it
that way but I don't believethat we are actually broken.
I think that it's our judgmentof oneself that leads us to more
brokenness, right, and so I'vereally worked hard to look at
expansion instead of judgmentand brokenness, and so when I
(28:36):
went into this ceremony, I asked, from a hypothetical
perspective, if this medicinereally does what I'm being told
that it can do and give meaccess to states of
consciousness, or maybe evenaccess to the creator and source
itself, deities and beings orwhatever else wants to come to
me.
Show me how big this game is,show me how big we can play,
(28:58):
show me what this humanexperience is all about.
I wanted expansion, notcontraction and healing, not
contraction and healing, and Iwas.
I can tell you I went frombelieving that we are one and
that we are connected to allthings in this universe to a
definitive knowing.
And when you can leave anexperience, not only with a lot
(29:22):
of work being done meaning thethings that were in my way of
experiencing something that bigwere removed there's this
purging experience during anayahuasca ceremony, where you're
releasing things energeticallyand physically that may be
blocking you from expansion.
And when you can move intoknowing, you become unshakable.
When you can move into knowing,you become unshakable, and that
(29:47):
unwavering aspect of youchanges people without having to
do anything.
It changes you on a consistentbasis because you can't forget
what you just experienced,particularly when you're
focusing on the integration.
A lot of people will go do themedicine, have this peak
experience or a lot of healing,but then they lose themselves
(30:08):
afterwards and they go back tothe habitual nature of where
they were and they feel likethey have to do it all over
again.
I've done now this weekend willbe my 40th ayahuasca
journey-ish hundreds ofpsilocybin journeys and other
medicines.
I lean towards plant-based, eventhough that seems to trigger
(30:30):
people more.
I think if it came from theearth might be more interesting
than man-made.
I don't always trust man-made,but I have had incredible
experiences on LSD and ketamineand different things.
But the reason I've gone backis because it's like chapters of
a book.
For me it's been the next layerto the embodiment of my
(30:53):
spiritual practice into my cells, into my very bones, so that I
am a walking, living, breathingexample of how to be human, not
how to be spiritual.
My biggest takeaway from thisentire experience is that I know
nothing and that I absolutelylove devening.
(31:20):
I love being human.
My most anxiety today and Iheard this on some guy who was
it was a clip from an interviewhe did on his podcast on a
podcast and I felt it so deeplyhe goes.
Anxiety is not from us losingourselves in our mind, it's the
(31:45):
idea that your spirit came hereto human.
And particularly in thespiritual community we see so
many people trying to spiritinstead of human, and I get it
because for me, I tell people ifthis game is true, I'm willing
to admit maybe we just turn todust and nothing happens and I'm
okay with that too.
(32:05):
But at the end of the day, Ithink I have experienced
differently and I know somethingelse is there and I'm certain
that I was spirit before I camehere.
I will be spirit when I leaveand I am spirit embodied in
human, and because of that myspirit came to human, which
(32:28):
means my goal isn'tenlightenment, my goal is to
human as best I can, to screw itup and put it all back together
again, to give myself fullpermission to allow that which
came here for the roller coasterride that we call human to ride
it as great as possible in allthe things that occur, knowing
that all those things are why Icame here and when you can fully
(32:50):
embody that.
I can't tell you how liberatingthat is and, more importantly,
the synchronicities and the flowof life, regardless of the
circumstance I don't mean joyand happiness and it's good all
the time.
I mean in the depth of the pain.
You can sit there andappreciate it, because this is
(33:11):
the ride that I came for.
The tears are it the emoting,the states of being that 100% is
the part of the entire process,and to run from any of that is
what creates that anxiousness.
It's the wanting to disconnectfrom the human experience that
(33:32):
creates that mind that spiralsout of control and beats itself
up into oblivion.
And I think that our world isin a chaotic state right now for
no other reason than to shakeup the foundation of our truth,
so that we can start askingthese powerful questions and
move into curiosity and discoverwhy we're here.
(33:54):
And it is to purely be existinghere and now and enjoying that
process and all that comes withit the density, the lightness,
the pain, the joy.
And when we can immerseourselves in it, the whole
entire game will change.
And when we can eradicatejudgment, judgment is the key.
(34:16):
Judgment and resistance are thekey to suffering.
Jennifer Loehding (34:19):
Yeah, devin, that was good.
You know what I got everythingyou were saying and you know
what.
There are people that are goingto listen to.
There are people that are goingto listen to this and they're
going to totally feel everythingyou just said they're going to.
It's going to resonate andthey're going to be some of the
people are going big wordyperson.
I would say.
It's this knowingness of whoyou are, what you're doing and
(34:50):
and being okay in your skin.
That's what I hear when I hear.
All of this is just this, thisfreeness to experience the human
condition being okay withoutthe judgment being and I and I
would take this so far becauseI've had this conversation you
know, when we talk about regrets, let's talk about regrets Like
I'm a no regret person, like Ithink that everything happens
(35:12):
and I've had some not like you,but I've had some really crappy
things.
I mean.
I was married to a guy that wasin drugs and abusive and I left
that, went into another one andthen I, you know, I've had, you
know, bad things happen withinmy family, different things that
have happened over the years,but here's what I will say about
(35:32):
this.
And I did that because I gotdiagnosed with two rare health
conditions that doctors don'teven know what to deal with and
I've had to learn to navigatethem.
I don't regret any of thethings that have happened in my
life.
If you'd asked me this question, maybe you know, 10 years ago,
before I went on this, probablythis kind of journey like you
started, where I startedquestioning why was, why was I
(35:54):
chosen to have these thingshappen to me?
You know, I now know andrealize that I have a voice and
I think that I was givenpermission to speak to people
and give people an opportunityto understand that you can live
this human condition we'retalking about and survive, and
you're going to have bad things,you know, but you can survive
(36:15):
right.
So I don't have regrets.
I don't have regrets and Ithink that the reason I'm okay
with that now is because I'mokay with where I am and what
I'm doing and who I am and I'mokay with the good and the bad,
and I know that that's going tohappen, and so I think it's a
knowing, I think it's a wisdomthing.
(36:37):
I don't know when people hitthat journey and I don't know
that everybody does.
I think those of us that arecurious, ask questions, go soul
searching, do the deep work, allof that there's like a cross
point.
They, there's some, there's a Idon't know where that line is,
but it's crosses over and andyou have a different.
You have a whole different viewof life.
(36:58):
You just look at things verydifferently, you know.
And so that's why, like whenyou you mentioned something
about the pain and all that.
This is why I say, even in thedepths of junk, like the bad, if
you really get in there and youdig, you can find something in
there.
You can find something fromthat that you needed to learn,
you needed to know, you neededto grab from that experience.
And that's how I approach lifeand, like you, I don't say it's
(37:23):
always happy.
I get mad, I get frustrated,sometimes I get unhappy, but
most of the time, overall, Ifeel like I wake up every day
content.
I wake up feeling okay, youknow, we got a little thumb.
We got thumbs up in our deal?
Devon Kerns (37:38):
I don't know, what that came from.
Jennifer Loehding (37:42):
Somebody liked it we were talking about
we'd be talking some good stuffhere.
So I just want to say I getlike I can feel totally and hear
what you're saying and I thinkit's a beautiful thing, it's a
comfortableness, it's an okaywith where you are and what
you're doing, and that's why youmentioned early on no matter
what you do, it doesn't matter,because it's the human condition
(38:02):
.
That's what we're talking about.
We've talked about AI, allthese different things, but it's
really at the core about beinghuman, asking questions, being
curious, embracing life,enjoying it.
Where you are asking questions,being curious, embracing life,
enjoying it where you are.
Devon Kerns (38:15):
You know, I do feel I mean.
What's hitting me right now too, in this conversation is and I
understand this point of view alot of people are like well, but
what about the suffering on theplanet?
Right, it's easy to have thisconversation when we live over
here in America and go oh, thepain is, you can work through it
when there's bombs dropping,right.
Jennifer Loehding (38:36):
Right, exactly.
Devon Kerns (38:37):
And I don't.
I will never pretend tounderstand that.
I'm never going to sit here andgo.
I get it, but there's no amountof suffering that I can induce
within me that will solve thatproblem.
What I need to do is capitalizeon the place that I can induce
within me.
That will solve that problem.
What I need to do is capitalizeon the place that I live in
this current moment and be awalking, living, breathing
(39:00):
example of the gift that we have, living in some of these
countries, like the US andothers, that have the ability to
raise our consciousness, to dothis work and to be an example
in the world and then takeaction to create that change.
Because nothing, nothing, thereis zero amount of my deep
(39:21):
empathy and sadness for what'shappening in this world and
getting lost in that.
That's going to shift any of it.
It is only the opposite of that, and so I want to honor those
who feel that so deeply.
And what are we going to doabout it?
Are we stepping up as leaders?
Are we replacing the moronicmindset, the delusional
(39:45):
leadership that we have on bothsides, on all?
Jennifer Loehding (39:49):
sides.
I agree.
Devon Kerns (39:50):
The leaders of the companies that are out there
Cool, right, awesome, good job.
It's time for change.
Jennifer Loehding (39:58):
Get over it look at the grand landscape,
right, like the overarchingthing that's going on here, and
I got my arms moving.
So you know I'm getting excited.
But we start talking about theoverarching issues here and you
(40:20):
and I know you mentioned, youknow, when you went through all
the whatever, how manyparagraphs on AI of finding out
the different religions, andlove was at the center.
These are that's a basic needthat we all need and we get away
from that.
And if we all came back tounderstanding that we're all
here, humans, having a humanexperience, we tend to get so
(40:40):
fixated on our differences asyou mentioned earlier about the
tribes, right.
We get so fixated on ourdifferences and how we're not
alike, instead of recognizingthat we all have a core,
fundamental need that we allwant love.
We all want to be appreciatedand valued and experience love
at some level.
And if we spent more timelooking at the big picture
(41:01):
instead of the minutia and Iknow that's easier said than
done, but I think that we missso many of the big things by
hanging on to the thing, theclinging on to the minutiae
things, and that's why we getinto these patterns of back and
forth.
And so I want, I want to tellyou thank you for bringing up
the paint that you know aboutthe other, the other countries,
(41:22):
whatever, because we are notsitting here on any level saying
we understand what somebody isgoing through.
I will never say I know how youfeel, devin.
I will never say how anybodyfeels.
What I will say to people isthat I recognize that, whatever
it is you're going through, it'shard, and I tell my clients
that Even when I work withpeople, I never try to put
myself in a position to say, oh,I know what you're going
through.
No, because unless you walk theperson's shoes, you never do,
(41:48):
and so I think that's good thatyou said that.
Devon Kerns (41:50):
Yeah, I think it's important and you know just all
of these concepts, right?
My fundamental perspective iswas it working?
Yeah, all right.
And that question in any system, in any part of education, in
(42:11):
any religion, in anything, ifpeople were joyous and happy and
the children were being fed,and we weren't at war and you
weren't anxious and you weren'tdepressed and we weren't
consuming all thesepharmaceuticals and we weren't
doing all these things, I wouldgo yeah, we got this thing
nailed, man, we got this dialedin.
The problem is when we moveinto righteousness about my
(42:34):
minutia and my point of view,thinking that that was right,
and then I turn around and askyou well, is it working for you
or is it working for thosearound you?
And your answer is no.
Jennifer Loehding (42:46):
Got a question right.
We got to look at things.
What are we doing here?
Devon Kerns (42:51):
I agree.
So, then, change is necessary,and at that 30,000-foot view,
everyone is asking for changebecause everyone is exhausted
with the way it's been, and theirony is that the mantra on one
side is we want change but wedon't, and the other one is we
(43:14):
want change but go don't, andthe other one is we want change
but go back to the way it was.
I'm so confused as to whatwe're even talking about right
now.
But the confusion is going tolead people to the conclusion
that you and I are coming to, ifwe are sitting in our curiosity
and sitting in the need tounderstand that what was just
(43:36):
isn't working anymore.
It wasn't perfect.
It's always getting better, butcan we let go and start
accepting the changes that areoccurring Not all of them and
the ones that you don't agreewith?
Explore what is within thatthat we're all really asking for
, instead of staring at thewords, although words are
(43:59):
extremely powerful.
Look at what the aim is, what'sthe intent, and not do you
agree with it, but are you doingsomething about it?
Jennifer Loehding (44:11):
Yeah, Okay, devin so good when I get ready
to get this whole title for thisshow.
I'm going to have so much funwith this one because this is
like totally just a thought.
I knew it was going to bethought provoking when you came
on here and I love it because Ithink you're raising questions.
These are things I talk aboutall the time.
I probably drive my husbandcrazy with them because I'm
always doing this, like I'malways probing and saying but
(44:33):
this thing, this we talk about,doesn't even make sense and why
are we still hanging on to thisif it doesn't the big, I think,
overall message in this entirething we've talked about so much
, but it's really about I'mgoing to get back to the
curiosity, right, curiosity, ifsome look at what we're doing
and this applies, we could takeit all the way down to, let's
(44:54):
say, fundamental.
It could go back to just how youdo your business and how you do
your parenting, right.
I mean, think about it.
If something is not working,you got to stop and you got to
put double downing on this andbeing righteous and saying,
maybe, just maybe, that maybeworked at one time, but maybe
today it doesn't, maybe we needto reassess what's going on and,
(45:16):
I think, if we all try to learn.
I do think you know you have tostay true to your values and
your principles, but I do thinkthat we always should be
investigating and looking andasking questions about
everything.
And besides, if we weren't, howboring would life be if we
weren't Think about it, devin,if you and I weren't out here
probing and asking questions andbeing disruptors and, you know,
(45:37):
just kind of being not goingalong with the status quo, I
mean, our lives would be boring,would they not?
Like I'd be bored, so boring,so boring.
Devon Kerns (45:48):
And I couldn't agree more.
I couldn't agree more.
I think you know the thing I'dadd to the curiosity is and the
reason you know, within that funtitle that you read off, which
is chaos and curiosity, right Iscuriosity is necessary in the
chaos, right?
Yes, chaos is actually thefirst stage to all
(46:09):
transformation, to alltransformation.
And so whatever's happening inyour personal life, whatever's
happening in the world, chaos isthe beginning of true
transformation.
And when you can look at thatfrom an open space, from a place
of curiosity and I don't meanwhy is this happening?
To me, that's one of the worstphrases you could ever ask yeah,
(46:32):
why, I've just eliminated outof my vocabulary in general.
Sorry, simon Sinek, um, but whenI, when I go, how can I, what
can I, what is what's reallygoing on here?
Right, it can pop you up tothat place of creativity or down
(46:55):
to that place of curiosity andcreativity.
Technically, it's from thatsacral chakra, and when you can
play in that creative center andallow for that to open up, you
begin to see things with neweyes and you begin to take on
that pressure of the chaos,whether it's yours or society's,
(47:15):
and you start to feel that fireand the bubbling up of what
you're really here to do in theworld, because you're in a state
of expansion and curiosity andquestions are containers and
expansive and when you unlockthat, something happens within
you and that little flame that'sthere begins to turn into that
(47:37):
fire and you end up finding yourpurpose within the entire game
and it's a beautiful thing to do.
But to honor the chaos and thenmove into curiosity, I think,
is the key to those things.
Jennifer Loehding (47:49):
You can move into curiosity but then get
paralyzed by chaos and itdoesn't really do anything Right
, right, no, and I think a lotof what you talked today you put
it in a really great way.
It's different, you know,because I say a lot of the same
things you're saying, I just sayit differently.
And so I love this, becausesomebody listening to this may
hear this and this dialogueresonates.
(48:10):
They pick up on this and gothat's what he's taught.
That's what it is.
You know, because I've hadpeople ask me that it's like I
think it was.
My husband asked me one day.
I had this conversation.
I said something about when youget to a place of sort of
knowing yourself, you trust yourintuition, and this is what
we've all been saying here iswhere you get okay with this
(48:31):
your human experience.
You recognize that you're goingto screw up and you're not
going to beat yourself up for it, because it's part of the human
condition, right?
You're going to say the wrongthings.
You're going to walk the wrongway.
You're going to put the wrongclothes on.
You're going to make the wrongbusiness decision.
You're going to hang out withthe wrong people.
You're going to say the wrongthing to your kid.
It's going to happen, right,feel paralyzed by making those
(48:51):
mistakes.
What I say to that is I and I'mokay, saying Devin, yeah, I
messed that up, I don't feel badabout myself.
I messed that up.
I made a poor choice, I messedthat up, but it's no longer tied
to my worth as an individual,because I'm okay with me.
And so my husband asked me oneday he's like how do you know?
(49:12):
And I said you just know, youjust wait, I don't.
I don't know what the line is,I don't know.
When you hit that point, youjust get to a place where and I
say this because I know what itfelt like to not be that way I
know what it felt like to be onthe other side, where I was
doubting myself all the time andfeeling insecure and my
achievements were tied to myself-worth and I had to be doing
all these things.
Now I do things because theyhave a purpose and a calling.
(49:34):
Like I told you about thisnetworking thing I'm starting
and all of us can start anetworking group.
Like I'm not excited about that, it's more about what we're
creating, what we're trying todo with it, the mission behind
it.
Right there's, we're in Dallas.
There's networking every day ofthe week, if you want it,
probably all at all hours, Imean maybe, except three o'clock
in the morning.
You know nobody needs anotherone.
But we're trying to create amovement.
(49:56):
We're trying to do somethingdifferent, because that's what
my purpose is and my calling isis I want to make a difference.
I don't want people just goingout and handing business cards.
I want people developingrelationships, because I know
when we get people bonding onsomething other than work, we
get them connecting on adifferent level.
They're pets you and I talkedabout pets, kids, whatever that
(50:19):
is Then they're going to want tobuild relationships.
That's going to be bringingbusiness.
That's going to be creatingmore than us just going hey,
what do you do?
Hi, I'm Jennifer, I do this.
So this knowing, I think, comesfrom all of this dialogue you
and I've had here.
Right, it's, it's it's thatgetting to that place of and
(50:40):
it's not a destination, I thinkit's just you evolve into it and
you get.
I guess people maybe call thatwisdom right.
Like you, you just startgaining wisdom and knowledge.
So I'm excited.
Devin, you're an awesome.
You're awesome.
I love what you're doing.
I know you've got things to do,so here's what I do want to ask
you how do our, how do mypeople get in touch with you?
(51:01):
Somebody here may want tofollow you, connect with you,
might want to learn more aboutyour work.
Where do we want to send them?
Devon Kerns (51:09):
Two of the post on Instagram a lot, but you can
find me easiest places, I'd say,are Instagram.
I don't there, which is atDevon Kearns.
Just my first and last name andthen email me.
It's DevonKKerns at gmailcom.
People don't, right?
(51:29):
I've done hundreds of podcastsnow and who knows how many
people we've reached.
Right, I've put I've donehundreds of podcasts now and who
knows how many people we'vereached.
But uh, at the end of the day,10 people reach out and you're
like cool, so do it, Just reachout.
Yeah, I do follow your page.
Jennifer Loehding (51:45):
Yeah, I follow your page and I tell you
I like it cause it's actuallycomforting, it's a calm, it's a
calm energy and I like itbecause it's very just because
I'm a very high energy, fastpaced person and so if you know
anything about I've talked aboutthis here in workshops about
the nervous system we have highenergy and low energy people and
I tend to have to reallypractice work on practicing
(52:09):
calming.
So I do, you know certaintechniques, nervous system,
things like that to just makemyself force myself.
I study transcendentalmeditation, do a lot of these
things just to make myself takethe calm.
And so I've been on your pageand I'm like, oh, this is nice.
It's just in a busy world wherewe have so much going on, so
much stimuli all the time, it'svery nice.
(52:31):
So for our listeners, if theyneed that definitely can go
check out your page and take thebreather.
So, devon, this has been fun.
I appreciate you, I appreciatewhat you're doing in the world
and to make the world a betterplace, and I know it's not
always easy to be out there andput yourself out there.
But my thing is, if you enjoywhat you're doing and you feel
(52:53):
led to do it, then you're in theright place.
Devon Kerns (52:55):
You know you're thriving and that's cool, so I
just want to commend you on thatand say thank you, same you,
for what you're doing in theworld and bringing people
together and creating that kindof connection.
Jennifer Loehding (53:05):
It's so important today, so thank you,
thank you All right and, ofcourse, to our listeners.
We hope that you find thisepisode, or found it both
inspiring and informative.
That's always the game here isthat we want to inspire you to
do better things and make changesmall change, but if you did go
, do all the things, hit thelike, the share, subscribe,
comment, so that we can keepsharing all of this amazing
(53:27):
content and our message.
And as I always say, in orderto live the extraordinary, you
have to start.
Message.
And as I always say, in orderto live the extraordinary, you
have to start, and every startbegins with a decision.
(53:50):
You guys, take care, be safe,be kind to one another and we
will see you next time.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.