Do you ever feel like you’re living two lives—one back home, and one here?
If you’re an expat or immigrant woman in the U.S. grappling with cultural adjustment, identity shifts, or the quietness of starting over, this episode speaks straight to your heart.
In this episode Sophie unpacks the emotional rollercoaster of leaving home, reshaping identity, and finding a sense of belonging in a place where nothing feels familiar.
In this episode you'll discover:
- What no one tells you about the emotional transition of immigration, and why feeling “caught between cultures” is more common than you think.
- Hear how Sophie navigated the pressures of adapting to a new culture without losing her authentic self—and how she learned to build meaningful community in a foreign land.
- Gain inspiration from her candid reflections on motherhood, entrepreneurship, and the silent courage it takes to create a new life abroad, even when you feel unprepared.
Download now to hear lived experiences from people like you who have overcome challenges of international relocation.
To share your own migration story or feedback email guest@Theplaceswecallhome.com
This compelling podcast dives into Expat and immigrant women (and men) stories. Those who immigrate to the USA, tackling the struggles of homesickness, identity crisis, and culture shock in the USA while adjusting to expat life and navigating cultural differences. Through conversations on starting over, reinventing yourself, and finding purpose, it highlights success stories of women's tenacity, and the resilience of expats in the USA. It offers insights into bicultural identity, language barriers, and the challenges of living overseas. The podcast emphasizes the importance of a strong support system and wellbeing for women in pursuit of the American dream.
https://www.instagram.com/theplaces_wecallhome
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Good morning, listeners.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Places We CallHome podcast.
You're an English bird.
I am.
I'm a Londoner.
What was life like in London foryou growing up?
People who've made the move to adifferent country or are
thinking about moving back totheir country of origin.
They're all transitions awayfrom familiarity.
It takes a lot of courage.
Do you feel American or do youstill feel Brit?
(00:26):
I don't feel American and that'sbecause I have never felt more
English living in America.
I think, I didn't really noticeor understand my identity as a
British woman.
People are very good at talkingabout the times that they've
(00:46):
struggled.
I'm human and that should beenough.
But actually, no, I think Imight need to go back because
I'm not sure I can sustain this.
If I was to turn the clock backa few years, I would make more
time to discover more of thecountry I live in.
I am sitting with the lovelySophie Davis.
Sophie is a Brit based in theSan Francisco Bay area, and
(01:08):
she's somebody who lovesbuilding community, especially
to support professional women.
She is a very busy woman.
In fact, I refer to her as a bitof a maverick.
She's the founder of PrimeMarketing and Copper Culture.
She's a group facilitator, anevents and programming producer,
(01:29):
and she blends all of that withher background in PR, marketing,
branding, and delivering eventsin both the UK and the US.
Sophie runs a business club at ashared workspace, Ground Floor,
in Marin County.
But that's not all.
She also programming and eventsfor a private community of C
(01:52):
level execs in HR and finance.
She lives in Marin Countyherself, which is in Northern
California with her husband andtwo teenage kids.
It's my absolute joy to havethis time with her.
So grab your tea and your sconesbecause you are going to have.
a lot of fun.
(02:18):
you've invited me into yourgorgeous home and we are sitting
in your office looking out thewindow onto a view of trees and
fields and it's very tranquil.
Today is a lovely day.
How are you feeling?
I'm feeling good.
I'm a little tired this morning.
I've been struggling with a bitof insomnia for the last few
days, but the sun's shining andit's a beautiful day and I'm so
(02:42):
pleased that you're here andwe're sharing a nice cup of tea
today.
We are sharing a lovely cup ofTetley's tea and some banana
bread why don't we start withyou just sharing a little bit
more about yourself, so me andour listeners can get to know
you a little bit.
Start by telling us where youwere born and what brought you
here to the us.
I was born in Kent.
(03:05):
and grew up in South EastLondon.
I'm the daughter of twoimmigrant Irish parents who
moved from Ireland to the UK inthe early 60s.
You're an English bird.
I am.
I'm a Londoner.
What was life like in London foryou growing up?
What was that like?
(03:26):
The pace of life was very slow,I would say, in the suburbs of
London.
I'm always excited to jump on atrain and go up to central
London and hang out around Sohoand soak up the vibrant energy
and creativity.
(03:46):
I was obsessed by fashion.
I was a fashion student and Iused to love going to People
Watch.
It's very vibey and if you wantto see people just rocking their
own trends, just wearingwhatever they feel like wearing,
however they feel like wearingit and just making a statement,
a personal statement about thisis me, this is my style.
(04:09):
You're going to go to Soho andchill out and see that.
I can't wait to walk aroundSoho.
Oh my God.
It's funny.
It changes so much.
When I was there last summer, Ioften get off the plane at
Heathrow and it's the start ofthe day.
And I've been awake for 24hours.
And.
(04:29):
All of a sudden my jet lagdisappears because I'm caught up
in the vibrancy and what's goingon, the new stores, new cafes,
enjoying my favourite food.
You just want to jump back intoit, it's that excitement, what
have I missed, what's going onin London?
Exactly, listening to the music.
And going back to London in the90s, dance music was a very big
part of my life and my friendslives.
(04:51):
And we used to love going uptownat weekends and going clubbing.
Oh my gosh.
We were clubbing kids.
Yes, you and me both, Sophie.
Did you ever go to car wash?
We did.
Oh my gosh.
At university, me and my friendsused to leave.
Thursday night, we used to leaveuniversity 7pm to get up to
(05:14):
London, have some cocktails andhave some dim sum, and then get
into carwash by 10 o'clock.
And we would be wearing ourplaids and our flares because it
was all 70s vibe.
You had to dress up like.
Soul Train.
Yes.
It's that kind of vibe.
Everybody's dressed up in their70s gear and we are in that club
(05:36):
and we are dancing till threeo'clock in the morning, jumping
the car Friday morning, peggingit back to university to start
our first lecture at 9am.
And we did that.
every single week.
So you just reminded me of thatwhole clubbing vibe.
I want to hear about youclubbing in the nineties.
(05:57):
The clubs that we used to go towas the WAG.
Oh yes, I remember the WAG.
The bar.
Just you talking about wearingflares and the whole seventies
vibe.
There was a big movement inLondon called Acid Jazz.
Yes.
There were bands like The BrandNew Heavy, Syncognito,
Jamiroquai that were really big.
And they were bringing that kindof 70s vibe back with a new
(06:19):
twist.
We would hang out quite often atthe Ministry of Sound.
My flatmate at the time, hisbrother was head of security at
the door.
So you got in?
We would get in.
It's crazy to think about howThat club did not open until
midnight.
And that was the start of ourevenings.
(06:39):
Then we'd come out at 6am,sunglasses on.
The day would just be beginning.
All the Italian cafes would beputting all their tables and
chairs out.
And we'd go get our littlecoffee.
Oh my gosh.
Sophie, Sophie, Sophie.
You're taking me back there.
I love it.
It's so much fun.
So when you land And go home fora visit, do you head straight
(07:02):
into town?
I either go to Windsor and hangout there, or go straight into
town and there's a really greataffordable hotel chain called Z
Hotels, or Zed Hotels as we callit, in these little cute areas,
there's a place right on OrangeStreet just off Haymarket.
(07:22):
And that's it, I'm in the middleof everything.
I can go walk and get my teafrom Fortnum Mason.
I can go and have a look aroundthe perfume department and the
flowers of Liberty of London.
Oh, I love that place.
I can go check out sneakerstores on Carnaby Street and
Newburgh Street.
You're right in the centre ofeverything there.
(07:43):
I'm in heaven.
I know.
Okay, so you left London howmany years ago now?
So we moved from London 2007because my husband had the
opportunity, it came at theexact moment that we were ready
for a change.
We were at that stage 10 yearsinto our career.
And I had built a fantasticcareer in public relations in
(08:07):
the fashion industry.
I learned a lot.
It was a huge learning curve.
Had a very exciting but veryhard working and tiring 10 years
and was feeling a little burntout So we were ready for a
change and we got the newsConfirmed when we were away
getting married at the time onthe island of Ibiza and all of a
(08:28):
sudden Were you clubbing?
It was just, it was, we got it,we went up May time, just before
the clubs were opening.
So we had an outside, we had anoutside party in this beautiful
place called Kangal.
The translation is House ofCobb.
Beautiful agro tourism, there'sonly certain parts of the island
(08:49):
of Ibiza that has fertile land.
So if you have a property there,you have to feed off the land.
So we were having orange juicesfrom the orange grove, olives,
manchego cheese, everything.
We found out the news that itwas confirmed because we had to
jump through a lot of hoops.
Fill out a lot of paperwork.
It was a good six months ofwaiting to find out what was
(09:12):
going to happen.
We were there with our immediatefamily, closest friends, the
news was confirmed, it becamevery real.
Being in that scenario with allmy nearest and dearest.
Felt really beautiful becausethis was like our last hurrah,
and it's interesting because alot of my close friends were
doing similar things.
Another couple of our friendswent to Dubai.
(09:35):
There were a few of us going offto Sydney.
We were all spreading our wings.
And people were movingdifferent, to different areas,
Canada.
All different areas of theworld.
So it was a very exciting time.
I remember Getting very excitedabout the prospect of moving to
San Francisco, the option wasSan Diego or San Francisco.
(09:56):
I had been to neither.
My only experience of Americawas going to New York for New
York Fashion Week.
Adam had been to both places andhe knew that San Francisco would
be a better fit for us, in termsof being closer to more culture.
It was more similar.
And the diversity.
Yes.
As close to London as you'd liketo get this time.
(10:17):
I'm not an outdoorsy girl.
I'm not a surfer or a big hiker.
San Diego probably wasn't theright fit, but San Francisco was
the fit for us.
Oh, fabulous.
So here's a question that I'mcurious about.
So you were excited about themove.
You were ready.
You were at that place in yourlife where you needed something
new, something different, right?
And this opportunity came up,you got it, and you grabbed it.
(10:41):
And what was that?
What was actual transition like,emotionally, getting on the
plane, saying bye to your folksat Heathrow or Gatwick, saying
bye, knowing that you are reallyin a way leaving your life, your
original life behind, what didthat feel like?
(11:01):
Gosh, there was so manydifferent emotions running
through my body, and I think Iwas just in logistics mode.
I came back from Ibiza, from ourwedding, and I remember having
the conversation with my boss heknew when I Asked for the
meeting.
He said there was either twothings.
You're either pregnant or You'removing.
(11:23):
Oh, you're decided to startanother life.
And I said, well, we've got thisopportunity to go to San
Francisco And we have to takeit.
This is a once in a lifetimeopportunity and he was very
excited for us So I just had toliterally wrap up this career of
10 years working at this agency,starting handing over that the
(11:43):
reins to my different managers.
I was a senior director, so Ihad to start to get those
managers comfortable runningthose client meetings and
handing those things over.
Then I had to figure out thelogistics of Renting out our
house.
We had bought a house a coupleof years prior that we had
renovated ourselves.
So we decided to rent it out,get a family in and transition
(12:07):
the house from a home.
Pack everything up and ship itall to San Francisco we were
really lucky.
That company, Adam's, workactually organized, most of the
move for us.
They organized the shipment ofall our furniture and boxes.
They sorted out the flights, weeven got our cats.
Our cat came with us as well.
(12:28):
You'll be surprised to know thatthe cat has to have a passport
and safety checks.
I've only learned that recently.
And her ticket was moreexpensive than our plane
tickets.
No way, are you serious?
What for the cat even needs aticket?
Yeah.
You have to buy it.
The cat is not sitting on aseat.
No, no, no, no.
Down in the car, Gary.
That's right, but why?
(12:49):
Yeah, they have to.
Well, that's new.
Didn't know that before, now youknow.
So there's a lot of logisticsand I was just swept up in all
of that and didn't realise thatmy body was telling me something
very different.
I remember packing up loads ofboxes and feeling like this
strain in my neck.
I was like, have I pulled amuscle in my neck or something?
(13:09):
I just feel really run down allof a sudden and I didn't realize
I had tonsillitis.
So my body was telling me, slowdown.
This is a huge transition and itdidn't really hit me until we
were on the plane.
I was quite sick on the plane.
A good friend of ours who worksfor British Airways made sure we
(13:29):
had the royal treatment and gotfree champagne and I couldn't
touch a drop of it.
You deserve it.
It wasn't until we actuallyarrived.
That I was like, oh my goodness,I've been so obsessed and
distracted with moving our lifefrom London to San Francisco,
that I haven't actually plannedwhat I'm going to do once I get
(13:52):
here.
Tell me Sophie.
Tell me, so the wholepsychological thing just
descended on you.
It just hit me.
As you stepped into your newflat here.
Yes.
And your husband had gone towork and you were left with
reality.
Oh, what now?
Exactly, we had a littletemporary apartment in the
(14:12):
Castro, which was a fun, great,vibrant place to be hanging out.
As we started to anchorourselves and figure out, okay,
where do we actually want tolive?
I was checking out all thedifferent neighbourhoods and
Figuring out the vibe, I thinkit was at least a month in that
I got the realization that thisis not a vacation.
I now live in the dollar, notthe pound, and this is my
(14:35):
forever home, or at least thehome for the next two to three
years.
That's what we told all ourfamily and friends, that we were
going to make this move, try itout for two to three years.
If it didn't work, we couldalways come back and we still
had the house.
I found myself in a verydifferent culture.
I found that people weren'tunderstanding.
(14:56):
The people here?
The people here didn'tunderstand me very well.
What do you mean?
Just asking for very simplethings like, could I have a
bottle of water?
Please.
Huh.
So I had to rephrase the waythat I spoke, the way that I
greeted people coming fromLondon.
Back then we used to say, Areyou alright?
as a greeting and I noticed thatAmericans did not understand
(15:19):
that way of being greeted.
They're like, what do you mean?
Of course I'm alright.
So I had to rephrase and figureout My own place in this very
different culture, You weretalking about having to
acclimatize to the culture hereand I actually find it a little
(15:39):
bit surprising when you saidthat people here couldn't
understand you Is it that Iguess it's two things first of
all you understanding theculture and how they speak, how
they interact with each other,what that feels, sounds and
tastes like.
But then again, perhaps them nothaving a lot of exposure to the
(16:00):
British culture.
So when you came along and youwere like, Hi, you alright?
That's just completely foreignto them.
It's a foreign language.
How did you deal with that?
Initially, we found ourselves ina social group with a lot of
expats.
I was lucky enough to have anold college friend who had moved
(16:20):
out here a couple of years priorwith her husband, and they had
English friends, Canadian,Colombian friends, So we hung
out with this tight group ofpeople that were in the same
boat as us.
They understood that we didn'tquite belong yet.
And then as I was finding myway, I decided, Okay, I'm going
(16:42):
to try something completely newfor work.
I want to find out Who's in myneighborhood?
I want to meet new people.
As I was checking out thedifferent neighborhoods, I got
chatting to a lot of smallbusiness owners.
Asking them lots of questionsabout what it's like to run a
business in San Francisco.
What are the ups and downs?
(17:04):
It was something I wasn't veryfamiliar with because my
previous work in the fashionindustry was predominantly with
global brands.
Big, mostly Italian brands likeUnited Colors of Benetton,
Esprit.
I started falling in love withindependent small businesses and
as I got chatting to one of theowners, she was interested in my
background and she wantedsomeone to help run her
(17:26):
business.
So I started managing thisbusiness on her behalf and a lot
of the time I was working thefront desk.
And I started to just learn howto greet people and customer
service in America, which isvery different.
And I just found that I had tostep into almost like a new
identity.
(17:47):
How would you describe thatidentity that you had to step
into?
Were you happy about doing that?
Did it feel like, to do that,you've got to be prepared to be
able to morph yourself intosomebody else.
That's not easy to do.
A lot of people have to put on aparticular professional facade
when it comes to customerservices.
(18:10):
Very much in America, I waslistening to a podcast recently
and a couple of English hostswere talking about how jarring
they found the coverage of theMet Gala.
on the red carpet.
British TV presenters were verysurprised by how disingenuous
and disconnected the whole vibewas.
(18:30):
There is so much politeness andwarmth from some people but also
a disconnect from others I hadto learn to step into that
different way of talkingapproaching people and learning.
the level of customer servicethat's expected in America.
So you're having to step intobeing very polite, very
friendly, but not deeply.
(18:52):
Yes, and that was verySuperficial.
Yeah, it was ingrained in me Iobviously came from public
relations, so I love meetingpeople.
I'm a natural connector andcommunity builder, and I'm very
curious about meeting new peopleand asking questions and finding
out more about them.
So that kind of firstintroduction to working for a
small business, progressed intoworking for a couple of startups
(19:16):
and then creating my ownbranding and marketing agency.
I've had to, over the years,shapeshift a little bit into who
Sophie is in America.
And then I have to shapeshiftagain to being Sophie in the UK
when I go back to visit familyand friends.
When you go back to the UK, doyou automatically fall back into
(19:39):
your authentic self?
It takes a few days.
Yeah, it takes a few days.
I only see my family and friendsonce a year.
There's some old friends thatI've had since college, a couple
of girlfriends I've known sincemiddle school, that I just, we
just slipped back into where wejust left off.
It's comfortable and I can bemyself and we can be a bit silly
(20:02):
but it's a challenging thingwe've talked about this before,
about that kind of sense ofbelonging.
I feel like I've been reallyexploring this subject more I'm
coming to this realization thatidentity roles we play, and they
change over years, affect thecommunity of people that we
(20:24):
surround ourselves.
And as a result, it changes inour sense of belonging.
The identity that you adoptimpacts the people you're
around, or is it the other wayaround?
The people you're around impactYour identity, who you become.
Oh, that's a very good question.
(20:45):
I would say two examples wouldbe a year into moving.
No, I would say a year and ahalf into moving to the States,
I became a mum.
And when you become a mum, youstep into a new identity and
then you're around other mums,other mummy friends.
You are immersing yourself inthis mummy and me kind of
(21:09):
culture, and you're going to allthese play dates.
I was one of those people thatevery day my son had a little
activity that we would do everyday.
To keep busy and keep out of thehouse.
Then, that shifted when I becamea business owner.
All of a sudden I was wearing anew hat.
A business owner hat.
I was part of a businesspartnership.
(21:29):
My business partner was in thecity.
I was in Northern Marin.
Our halfway point was a coworking space and we started to
discover the power of communityand being around other business
owners that helped us feel lessalone and overwhelmed in
starting a new business,particularly in that first year.
(21:49):
I started to feel myselfshapeshift into this new
business owner who was hangingout in this new community of
business owners.
Do you think that ability toshift yourself from one state of
being to another is required tolive in America, to survive, to
(22:10):
thrive?
That's a good question.
I think it's probably the caseanywhere that we live.
Wonder if it's more so inAmerica because, I don't know,
Sophie in England, the Sophieyou are, your original authentic
self would she have done whatyou've done?
(22:32):
This is a strange questionbecause you are yourself, right?
Yeah.
Could that Sophie live inAmerica the way you do?
Because you're somebody elsewhen you're here.
Yes.
I'm very thankful that we weregiven the opportunity to move to
America because it is the landof opportunity and it is the
land of the American dream thatyou can work hard.
(22:57):
And be whoever you want to beand do whatever you want to do.
You're not restricted so much bythe class system.
As you are in the UK.
I noticed that growing up in aworking class family, and then I
also noticed a shift in the 90s,particularly in England and the
UK, where all of a sudden a lotof working class people were
(23:20):
becoming quite successful in,The art world, fashion, music.
That's right, and we don'treally have so much of a class
system here.
I have changed in a huge wayliving in America.
I have opportunities to build alife that I want to have here.
(23:43):
That I don't know if I wouldnecessarily have in the UK.
I think in the UK I would havestuck to a more Traditional
career pathway of working forsomebody else.
Working hard, being successfuland well known in that role,
rather than being a founder, adriver to other people's
(24:04):
success.
I say that now, but that's just,my opinion.
But I know from looking onInstagram and following a lot of
communities and people in theUK, that there is an
entrepreneurial.
spirit, also in London.
If I was to ever go back, I'msure that there'll be co working
spaces and communities that Icould be part of, I just don't
(24:26):
think I had access to it.
Back then.
So has life in the US turned outthe way you had planned you came
and you just jumped into it.
Yeah, it's funny, when I lookback I think, what was I
thinking?
I had no plan at all.
I remember sitting down with, Ithink it was the first meal on
the second night of arriving inSan Francisco and my friend's
(24:48):
husband turned to me and said,Okay.
So, what are you going to donow?
What's the plan?
What's the plan?
And I was like, oh my god, Ihave no plan.
I don't know.
I'm just spontaneous.
And I think that's not a badthing, is it?
Would you do it the same wayagain, do you think?
Gosh.
Would you advise anyone to do itthe way you did it?
(25:12):
I would recommend researchingand planning it more than I did.
What sort of things would yourecommend researching?
Back in 2007, we were just inthe infancy of social media.
I think it was the first summerthat people in the UK were
getting on Facebook.
And it definitely wasn't beingused for businesses back then.
(25:32):
But now we have such access,such windows into people's lives
and neighbourhoods and thedifferent communities within
neighbourhoods that You can justgo on Instagram and find out
what's going on, what's thevibe, what's happening in that
neighborhood, where's peoplehanging out, where are the
people that I want to spend timewith hanging out and what are
they doing, where are they goingand what are they talking about.
(25:54):
So there's more of anopportunity and tools that we
can use.
To forward plan and researchmore.
A bit like taking a trip, if yougo to New Orleans for the first
time, the first tool I use isInstagram to find out where I'm
going to eat, where am I goingto stay, where am I going to
shop.
Entertainment, crime rates, allthe lovely stuff.
No, truthfully, you want tocheck everything out.
(26:16):
But, do you feel American or doyou still feel Brit?
I don't feel American.
And that's because I have neverfelt more English living in
America.
I think, I didn't really noticeor understand my identity as a
(26:39):
British woman living in London.
And then you take the Britishwoman out of London and you
plonk her in Marin County andyou notice how the people around
you react to your accent.
They react to the phrases andthe words that you use, and
people treat you differently.
(27:02):
So you've been leaning intothat.
I've been leaning into that,yeah.
I'm a British woman raising twoAmerican kids that are both born
here.
And I don't think my accent hasparticularly changed.
If anything, maybe it's gotstronger.
I just use American words,obviously.
Like garbage rather thanrubbish.
But I still put the bins outrather than the garbage cans
(27:25):
out.
And that gets picked up andpicked apart by family members
and friends when I go back tothe UK.
But no, I don't feel American.
I love my life as a Britishwoman living in America.
I'm What is it about living herethat you love?
(27:47):
we live in a very beautifulplace.
So we are based in Marin County,which is about an hour north of
the Golden Gate Bridge.
So we have access to amazingcountryside, rolling hills.
It's very green here.
We also are very close to thebay.
(28:07):
We have beautiful views here.
It's pretty easy to get around.
We don't have very much traffic.
Occasionally Highway 101 gets alittle jam packed.
It's mainly one road in, oneroad out.
I love, first of all, thenatural beauty.
I love the weather in spring andfall.
I'm not crazy about the heightof summer.
(28:28):
The heat is a bit unbearable.
I have to psych myself up to runfrom, if I've parked outside, to
run from the front door to getinto the car.
Because it burns.
And now you're getting into abaking hot car.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
The heat is ridiculous.
I'm Irish and I have an Irishskin tone so I can't handle the
heat very well.
(28:49):
You just burn and peel.
But we all live in AC a lotduring the summer.
Thank God for AC.
I'm very lucky that I have ahouse with AC.
And what are the other thingsthat, what's keeping you here?
First of all, we're here becausemy husband has a great job, and
let's be honest, if he was tomove back to the UK, his salary
would not be the same, there'sthat that's keeping us here, the
(29:12):
kids are very settled in school,we've got another five, six
years left until they both areoff to college, who knows what
life will look like once thathappens.
I'm very conscious.
Of the window of opportunityfrom becoming an empty nester
and having that freedom totravel and live the life that
(29:34):
you want to live before mobilityand health starts to decline.
And I'm looking forward to thatopportunity of seeing the world,
travelling more.
My husband is away travellingall the time with work.
If we were to meet again twoyears from now, what do you want
(29:55):
us to be talking about?
What would you hope that youwould be telling me two years
from now?
The first thing I always thinkabout is how old are my kids
going to be in two years?
My son will be 17 going on 18.
And my daughter will be 15 goingon 16.
Gosh, we'll be in collegeapplication mode.
What would we want to be talkingabout then?
(30:15):
I guess I would like to betalking about hopefully the
possibility of exploring more ofAmerica with them.
They're old enough now tounderstand that.
If we can afford to, because thecost of travel in America is
ridiculously high, compared togetting around in Europe, I
would love to be traveling morewith my kids around Europe too.
There's parts of Europe that Ihave never been to I really want
(30:38):
to go to Greece and Croatia ison my bucket list, I love
Mallorca and all the BalearicIslands, I'd love to take my
kids there.
So travel, I guess making themost of those last few years
before they go off to collegeand then just wanting to hang
out with their peers andgirlfriends and boyfriends and
(30:58):
don't have enough time to hangout with us anymore.
With the parents, yeah.
It sounds like you really misshome.
I do.
Do you still have a longing?
I miss the culture, I miss thepeople, I miss the humour and I
miss the food.
Oh, tell me, what foods do youmiss?
As soon as I go back, you'reprobably the same.
I love going to Marks andSpencer's.
(31:19):
Oh, yes.
Or Waitrose.
Yes.
And getting the quintessentialBritish picnic food.
I love a scotch egg, pork pie,cocktail sausages.
It's all the pastry things thatare not very good for you.
Sausage rolls, a really goodsausage roll.
My favourite chocolate bar.
Yes, biscuits.
(31:40):
Yes.
So I don't eat very healthy, ina healthy way when I go back.
But the thing is, you probablydo, but for me, when we land and
we're on our way from theairport to the house, we have to
stop.
My daughter has now picked upthe habit, because we go in for
their chocolate mousse, which ismy favourite dessert.
(32:02):
It's Marks and Spencer'schocolate mousse.
We go for the hot cross buns.
We go for the poppadoms crisps.
All the stuff we can't get here.
It's like a mad dash.
Give me, give me, give me.
It's like you're a child in atoy shop when you go to a
(32:22):
supermarket.
I always play the game with myhusband and my kids.
Can you believe how much thisis?
You literally are walking aroundpicking things up.
Can you believe how cheap thisis?
The cost of groceries are soaffordable compared to groceries
in California.
And another thing that I love todo Which I think a lot of people
(32:44):
find is quite bizarre.
I love going to a newsagents orgoing to WHSmith.
And standing in front of the bigmagazine aisle.
And just look at all themagazines.
Which one am I going to have?
Psychology.
Yeah, they've got psychologyhere.
Red magazine is my favoritemagazine of all time.
I've collected almost everyissue since it launched.
(33:06):
Really?
And you keep hold of them?
Yeah, I have them all on thebookshelves in my bedroom.
I love them.
It's the only magazine thatfeels like home to me.
Pouring through the pages with anice cup of tea.
When I get a copy of that itmakes my whole day.
I love it.
I get really excited about.
The Sunday papers, yes, thetimes I have to get a copy of
(33:27):
the Times.
Every Sunday.
My husband's now into it and wehave to go to a pub.
A gastropub, just sit, if it'swinter, it's got to have a
fireplace and sit down and havesomething hot, a cider or lager
with the Sunday times.
I never used to do that when Iwas over there.
But every time I go back now, Ihave to launch into these
(33:50):
quintessentially English thingsand just soak it up.
I love the Sunday Times, I lovethe Sunday Telegraph.
It was actually part of my jobthat over the weekend, everyone
in the agency, in the fashionindustry, we all had a paper,
each newspaper we were assignedto, so every weekend we had to
read the paper, and then onMonday morning in our meeting,
(34:12):
first thing we had to report.
Or what press coverage ourclients had appeared in what
newspaper.
It was a bit of a job, and itwas a bit of homework, but now I
miss it desperately.
I love the supplements, and thejournalism that you get in the
UK.
That's something you don'treally get here.
We have the Sunday, SanFrancisco Chronicle, and the
(34:34):
Marine Independent Journal, butit's not the same league as the
Sunday Times and the SundayTelegraph.
I hate to say it, but it's not.
And there are wonderful thingshere, but the journalism is not
one of them.
There are great journalists.
No, I love sitting on a Sundaymorning looking through the New
York Times, but I miss the pointof view.
The point of view and thewriting.
(34:55):
It's the humor that I miss aswell.
Okay, we've talked so much aboutthe stuff we miss, but the fact
is that we live here, you'velived here for longer than I
have, do you think you'll retirehere?
I feel like I know the answer tothat, but I have to ask you, can
you see yourself retiring here?
Well, the people I surroundmyself in retirement is going to
(35:16):
be very important to me.
I I'd love to be back in Englandor in a beautiful island of
Mallorca or somewhere gorgeoussurrounded by my close
girlfriends.
Not here.
I think it'd be very expensiveto retire in America.
I'd like to go back to perhapsfree healthcare.
(35:37):
The cost of healthcare.
If it remains free.
If it remains free.
Yes.
Let's hope it does.
I would say that you've lived ablessed life here, would you
agree?
Yes.
Is there anything else that youwould change?
And the reason why I ask that isbecause some of our listeners
(35:58):
might be people from Europe,around the world, who are
thinking, maybe I'd like to goand experience this.
Life in America.
It's a land of opportunities, asyou said.
Maybe I'd like to see what I cando, what I can create.
What would you say to somebodywith that mindset?
Given your experience.
(36:22):
I'm lucky that I don't have anyregrets because Every failure
teaches us how to succeedbetter.
I would perhaps, if I was to goback, if I was to turn the clock
back a few years, I would makemore time to discover more of
the country I live in.
I think we're very spoilt livingin California, that we can go to
(36:43):
the beach, we can get in a carand drive to the mountains and
go skiing.
We've got water, we've gotdesert, we've got everything
that we need within one state,but it makes us a little lazy
that we don't leave that state.
Perhaps I would have exploredAmerica a bit more.
Explore the country andunderstand how the life we live
(37:04):
in California and perhaps theEast Coast is very different to
how people in the Midwest live.
I've only explored the EastCoast once with my family last
summer and we loved it.
I had such a great time and it'sa very different vibe than it is
in the UK.
(37:25):
I'd want to live somewhere.
I've always been thinking aboutwhat would life be like on the
East Coast?
I just would not be able tohandle the snow.
I would love to do Washington,but maybe in the summer.
Yes.
Yes.
See, I haven't been toWashington DC.
I haven't been to Chicago.
I would love to go to Charlestonand Savannah and explore.
(37:48):
My husband's always talkingabout how much he loves Miami.
I've never been to Miami.
So yeah, I think there's a lotto explore of America.
I need to see more of it.
I feel like people are very goodat talking about the times that
they've struggled after thefact.
(38:12):
So, it's a nice safe narrative,to say, I was really struggling
with my sense of purpose or mysense of self and understanding
who I am and how I fit in theworld and then this happened and
now I'm in such a better place.
It's interesting, you never hearabout it when people are going
(38:33):
through it at the time.
And I understand that it's raw,and it's painful, and it's hard,
and it's messy, and we have tofigure it out privately, and we
have to talk about it with ourclose loved ones.
We have to journal through itand figure it out, and maybe the
way that we're communicating itin the moment.
Might not make a lot of sense toothers, never mind ourselves.
(38:55):
I was listening to a reallyrefreshing podcast interview
with Amanda Ducadne, who we'vegrown up watching, who's been on
British TV since she was 16.
She moved to America in herearly 20s and became a very
successful photographer.
She was like, I'm going to getreally vulnerable and tell you
that I am in transition.
As we speak, I am trying tofigure my next step and my next
(39:20):
role, I know the things that Ifind uncomfortable that there's
a lot of weight and prestige puton, particularly women, around
their social media numbers.
Their following and how muchinfluence I have.
I do not feel comfortablehanging out on Instagram and
being so public.
(39:41):
We should be validating people'sworth based on their influence
and the way that they marketthemselves and their social
media numbers.
And there must be another wayand I'm trying to figure out
what that other way is.
And I was like, wow, that'sfantastic to hear a woman.
Going through that transition.
We never hear the woman'sjourney when she's in it, when
(40:02):
she's going through that messypart of life.
We always hear it when they'vecome out the other end.
Is it because there's anattachment of shame?
Some sense of failure?
And We feel as if it's not okayto share.
That vulnerability.
I'm vulnerable right now.
I feel ashamed of it because I'mgoing through this period of I'm
(40:25):
not okay.
I'm transitioning from whateverI was and I'm finding it really
hard.
The real place that you're inright now, rather than this sort
of chosen, successful narrativethat I have it all figured out.
Yeah, because nobody has.
No, no one has.
I'm sure there's lots of womenout there doing their keynote
(40:46):
speeches and their podcastinterviews and they might be
telling one narrative that theyfeel comfortable sharing.
Yeah.
But behind closed doors,privately, they're probably in
some kind of transition orfiguring out their next move.
Or figuring out, what their nextstory is.
Or their next chapter is andthis is so very much the reason
why I want to do this podcast,why it's so very important to
(41:08):
me.
Because the experiences thatI've had, I after I had my kid
and I was like, I don't think Ican do this, especially without
my family.
I'm a new mom.
I'm very familiar with theboardroom, very familiar with
being that go getter, verycareer focused and achievement
focused and loving it.
But this lifestyle, I don't haveany real connections.
(41:31):
I'm trying to really connectwith these people around me.
I'm trying to figure out howmotherhood works.
I'm trying to make sure that mynew child is healthy and is
being safe.
I don't know how to connect withthese people.
They don't know how to connectwith me.
It seems like they are havingtrouble figuring me out.
First and foremost, I'm humanand that should be enough.
(41:53):
But actually, they were tryingto figure out.
How to connect what they'rehearing with what they're
seeing.
It was a little bit troublingfor them and I could see that.
But I'm saying to him, there issomething not working here.
I think I might need to go backbecause I'm not sure I can
sustain this.
And he was at work.
It was really difficult.
And so for my safety and myhealth, I kept saying to him, I
(42:16):
think I need to go back.
But he was willing and prayingfor me to hold on and try to
come up with ideas or try thisand go here and it wasn't until
I stopped and I gave up tryingto connect with people and just
going out and making myselfhappy, choosing to think
differently.
And just to phone my family, beon calls with them, and ask for
(42:40):
their help that way.
That's when I started feelingbetter.
As we get older, we understandthat we don't always make a real
connection with the people thatwe meet.
Maybe it will happen once, twicein a year.
So when you notice that spark,you're like, oh my god.
This person gets me.
(43:00):
I can show up as my true self.
There's this feeling of safety.
And I think we get so boggeddown with this I must belong, I
must belong.
And I've realized that a senseof safety around people that you
can be yourself with, ratherthan being the person they want
you to be, is much moreimportant.
(43:21):
That's right, because when wemove, one of our Shared Space
business besties said this to mein discussing the challenges of
moving from one country, yourhome of origin, leaving your
culture and your people thefirst thing you Ask is, am I
okay?
Am I safe?
And then, can I belong here ordo I belong here?
(43:44):
And do I matter?
Do I matter?
That's right.
I think it's got a lot to dowith culture.
I remember when, the first bigmove for me was leaving home and
moving to university.
And that was a huge cultureshift.
Yeah.
And I had to figure out my placein the world around.
(44:04):
Thankfully, they are salt- of-the- Earth's friendliest
people, and that opened my eyesto how humans should be
interacting with humans, andstrangers should be interacting
with strangers on a daily basis,I'm really thankful for that,
because life in London was verydifferent.
Oh, yes.
People who've made the move to adifferent country or are
(44:25):
thinking about moving to adifferent country or thinking
about moving back to theircountry of origin.
They're all transitions in someway of moving away from
familiarity.
It takes a lot of courage.
You definitely need creativity.
And it doesn't come with alittle guidebook.
There are guidebooks out there,but you have to figure it out
(44:47):
for yourself.
Yeah, we do.
But we have people like you,Sophie, who come alongside us
and help us make sense of thisthing that we're trying to do.
The nature of being a businessowner, particularly a
solopreneur, is a reallyoverwhelming and isolating one.
We have to make so manydifferent decisions, figure out
so much by ourselves.
(45:09):
All we need to do is go back tosome community or group of
people that That has some kindof consistency from familiarity
that we can actually say, youknow what?
I don't know how to figure thisout.
Have you gone through a similarsituation?
How did you handle it?
Do you know someone who's donethis and did they do it well?
Other people's experiences oftransitioning from their home,
(45:32):
their first place that they callhome.
to this new land.
We learn a lot about ourselvesthrough other people's stories.
Yes.
Sophie, thank you so much.
I feel like we can keep chattingfor hours.
Our teas are cold.
The banana bread is still there.
It's probably almost time topick up the kids.
(45:52):
No, not quite yet.
So thank you listeners for beingwith us and I hope that you
gained so much from this chat.
I want to say our fireside chatbut it's blazing outside and
there's no fire roaring hereit's been an amazing experience
for me to be here with Sophietoday and to have you with us.
Have a lovely day bye bye.
Good morning, listeners.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Places We CallHome podcast.
You're an English bird.
I am.
I'm a Londoner.
What was life like in London foryou growing up?
People who've made the move to adifferent country or are
thinking about moving back totheir country of origin.
They're all transitions awayfrom familiarity.
It takes a lot of courage.
Do you feel American or do youstill feel Brit?
(00:26):
I don't feel American and that'sbecause I have never felt more
English living in America.
I think, I didn't really noticeor understand my identity as a
British woman.
People are very good at talkingabout the times that they've
(00:46):
struggled.
I'm human and that should beenough.
But actually, no, I think Imight need to go back because
I'm not sure I can sustain this.
If I was to turn the clock backa few years, I would make more
time to discover more of thecountry I live in.
I am sitting with the lovelySophie Davis.
Sophie is a Brit based in theSan Francisco Bay area, and
(01:08):
she's somebody who lovesbuilding community, especially
to support professional women.
She is a very busy woman.
In fact, I refer to her as a bitof a maverick.
She's the founder of PrimeMarketing and Copper Culture.
She's a group facilitator, anevents and programming producer,
(01:29):
and she blends all of that withher background in PR, marketing,
branding, and delivering eventsin both the UK and the US.
Sophie runs a business club at ashared workspace, Ground Floor,
in Marin County.
But that's not all.
She also programming and eventsfor a private community of C
(01:52):
level execs in HR and finance.
She lives in Marin Countyherself, which is in Northern
California with her husband andtwo teenage kids.
It's my absolute joy to havethis time with her.
So grab your tea and your sconesbecause you are going to have.
a lot of fun.
(02:18):
you've invited me into yourgorgeous home and we are sitting
in your office looking out thewindow onto a view of trees and
fields and it's very tranquil.
Today is a lovely day.
How are you feeling?
I'm feeling good.
I'm a little tired this morning.
I've been struggling with a bitof insomnia for the last few
days, but the sun's shining andit's a beautiful day and I'm so
(02:42):
pleased that you're here andwe're sharing a nice cup of tea
today.
We are sharing a lovely cup ofTetley's tea and some banana
bread why don't we start withyou just sharing a little bit
more about yourself, so me andour listeners can get to know
you a little bit.
Start by telling us where youwere born and what brought you
here to the us.
I was born in Kent.
(03:05):
and grew up in South EastLondon.
I'm the daughter of twoimmigrant Irish parents who
moved from Ireland to the UK inthe early 60s.
You're an English bird.
I am.
I'm a Londoner.
What was life like in London foryou growing up?
What was that like?
(03:26):
The pace of life was very slow,I would say, in the suburbs of
London.
I'm always excited to jump on atrain and go up to central
London and hang out around Sohoand soak up the vibrant energy
and creativity.
(03:46):
I was obsessed by fashion.
I was a fashion student and Iused to love going to People
Watch.
It's very vibey and if you wantto see people just rocking their
own trends, just wearingwhatever they feel like wearing,
however they feel like wearingit and just making a statement,
a personal statement about thisis me, this is my style.
(04:09):
You're going to go to Soho andchill out and see that.
I can't wait to walk aroundSoho.
Oh my God.
It's funny.
It changes so much.
When I was there last summer, Ioften get off the plane at
Heathrow and it's the start ofthe day.
And I've been awake for 24hours.
And.
(04:29):
All of a sudden my jet lagdisappears because I'm caught up
in the vibrancy and what's goingon, the new stores, new cafes,
enjoying my favourite food.
You just want to jump back intoit, it's that excitement, what
have I missed, what's going onin London?
Exactly, listening to the music.
And going back to London in the90s, dance music was a very big
part of my life and my friendslives.
(04:51):
And we used to love going uptownat weekends and going clubbing.
Oh my gosh.
We were clubbing kids.
Yes, you and me both, Sophie.
Did you ever go to car wash?
We did.
Oh my gosh.
At university, me and my friendsused to leave.
Thursday night, we used to leaveuniversity 7pm to get up to
(05:14):
London, have some cocktails andhave some dim sum, and then get
into carwash by 10 o'clock.
And we would be wearing ourplaids and our flares because it
was all 70s vibe.
You had to dress up like.
Soul Train.
Yes.
It's that kind of vibe.
Everybody's dressed up in their70s gear and we are in that club
(05:36):
and we are dancing till threeo'clock in the morning, jumping
the car Friday morning, peggingit back to university to start
our first lecture at 9am.
And we did that.
every single week.
So you just reminded me of thatwhole clubbing vibe.
I want to hear about youclubbing in the nineties.
(05:57):
The clubs that we used to go towas the WAG.
Oh yes, I remember the WAG.
The bar.
Just you talking about wearingflares and the whole seventies
vibe.
There was a big movement inLondon called Acid Jazz.
Yes.
There were bands like The BrandNew Heavy, Syncognito,
Jamiroquai that were really big.
And they were bringing that kindof 70s vibe back with a new
(06:19):
twist.
We would hang out quite often atthe Ministry of Sound.
My flatmate at the time, hisbrother was head of security at
the door.
So you got in?
We would get in.
It's crazy to think about howThat club did not open until
midnight.
And that was the start of ourevenings.
(06:39):
Then we'd come out at 6am,sunglasses on.
The day would just be beginning.
All the Italian cafes would beputting all their tables and
chairs out.
And we'd go get our littlecoffee.
Oh my gosh.
Sophie, Sophie, Sophie.
You're taking me back there.
I love it.
It's so much fun.
So when you land And go home fora visit, do you head straight
(07:02):
into town?
I either go to Windsor and hangout there, or go straight into
town and there's a really greataffordable hotel chain called Z
Hotels, or Zed Hotels as we callit, in these little cute areas,
there's a place right on OrangeStreet just off Haymarket.
(07:22):
And that's it, I'm in the middleof everything.
I can go walk and get my teafrom Fortnum Mason.
I can go and have a look aroundthe perfume department and the
flowers of Liberty of London.
Oh, I love that place.
I can go check out sneakerstores on Carnaby Street and
Newburgh Street.
You're right in the centre ofeverything there.
(07:43):
I'm in heaven.
I know.
Okay, so you left London howmany years ago now?
So we moved from London 2007because my husband had the
opportunity, it came at theexact moment that we were ready
for a change.
We were at that stage 10 yearsinto our career.
And I had built a fantasticcareer in public relations in
(08:07):
the fashion industry.
I learned a lot.
It was a huge learning curve.
Had a very exciting but veryhard working and tiring 10 years
and was feeling a little burntout So we were ready for a
change and we got the newsConfirmed when we were away
getting married at the time onthe island of Ibiza and all of a
(08:28):
sudden Were you clubbing?
It was just, it was, we got it,we went up May time, just before
the clubs were opening.
So we had an outside, we had anoutside party in this beautiful
place called Kangal.
The translation is House ofCobb.
Beautiful agro tourism, there'sonly certain parts of the island
(08:49):
of Ibiza that has fertile land.
So if you have a property there,you have to feed off the land.
So we were having orange juicesfrom the orange grove, olives,
manchego cheese, everything.
We found out the news that itwas confirmed because we had to
jump through a lot of hoops.
Fill out a lot of paperwork.
It was a good six months ofwaiting to find out what was
(09:12):
going to happen.
We were there with our immediatefamily, closest friends, the
news was confirmed, it becamevery real.
Being in that scenario with allmy nearest and dearest.
Felt really beautiful becausethis was like our last hurrah,
and it's interesting because alot of my close friends were
doing similar things.
Another couple of our friendswent to Dubai.
(09:35):
There were a few of us going offto Sydney.
We were all spreading our wings.
And people were movingdifferent, to different areas,
Canada.
All different areas of theworld.
So it was a very exciting time.
I remember Getting very excitedabout the prospect of moving to
San Francisco, the option wasSan Diego or San Francisco.
(09:56):
I had been to neither.
My only experience of Americawas going to New York for New
York Fashion Week.
Adam had been to both places andhe knew that San Francisco would
be a better fit for us, in termsof being closer to more culture.
It was more similar.
And the diversity.
Yes.
As close to London as you'd liketo get this time.
(10:17):
I'm not an outdoorsy girl.
I'm not a surfer or a big hiker.
San Diego probably wasn't theright fit, but San Francisco was
the fit for us.
Oh, fabulous.
So here's a question that I'mcurious about.
So you were excited about themove.
You were ready.
You were at that place in yourlife where you needed something
new, something different, right?
And this opportunity came up,you got it, and you grabbed it.
(10:41):
And what was that?
What was actual transition like,emotionally, getting on the
plane, saying bye to your folksat Heathrow or Gatwick, saying
bye, knowing that you are reallyin a way leaving your life, your
original life behind, what didthat feel like?
(11:01):
Gosh, there was so manydifferent emotions running
through my body, and I think Iwas just in logistics mode.
I came back from Ibiza, from ourwedding, and I remember having
the conversation with my boss heknew when I Asked for the
meeting.
He said there was either twothings.
You're either pregnant or You'removing.
(11:23):
Oh, you're decided to startanother life.
And I said, well, we've got thisopportunity to go to San
Francisco And we have to takeit.
This is a once in a lifetimeopportunity and he was very
excited for us So I just had toliterally wrap up this career of
10 years working at this agency,starting handing over that the
(11:43):
reins to my different managers.
I was a senior director, so Ihad to start to get those
managers comfortable runningthose client meetings and
handing those things over.
Then I had to figure out thelogistics of Renting out our
house.
We had bought a house a coupleof years prior that we had
renovated ourselves.
So we decided to rent it out,get a family in and transition
(12:07):
the house from a home.
Pack everything up and ship itall to San Francisco we were
really lucky.
That company, Adam's, workactually organized, most of the
move for us.
They organized the shipment ofall our furniture and boxes.
They sorted out the flights, weeven got our cats.
Our cat came with us as well.
(12:28):
You'll be surprised to know thatthe cat has to have a passport
and safety checks.
I've only learned that recently.
And her ticket was moreexpensive than our plane
tickets.
No way, are you serious?
What for the cat even needs aticket?
Yeah.
You have to buy it.
The cat is not sitting on aseat.
No, no, no, no.
Down in the car, Gary.
That's right, but why?
(12:49):
Yeah, they have to.
Well, that's new.
Didn't know that before, now youknow.
So there's a lot of logisticsand I was just swept up in all
of that and didn't realise thatmy body was telling me something
very different.
I remember packing up loads ofboxes and feeling like this
strain in my neck.
I was like, have I pulled amuscle in my neck or something?
(13:09):
I just feel really run down allof a sudden and I didn't realize
I had tonsillitis.
So my body was telling me, slowdown.
This is a huge transition and itdidn't really hit me until we
were on the plane.
I was quite sick on the plane.
A good friend of ours who worksfor British Airways made sure we
(13:29):
had the royal treatment and gotfree champagne and I couldn't
touch a drop of it.
You deserve it.
It wasn't until we actuallyarrived.
That I was like, oh my goodness,I've been so obsessed and
distracted with moving our lifefrom London to San Francisco,
that I haven't actually plannedwhat I'm going to do once I get
(13:52):
here.
Tell me Sophie.
Tell me, so the wholepsychological thing just
descended on you.
It just hit me.
As you stepped into your newflat here.
Yes.
And your husband had gone towork and you were left with
reality.
Oh, what now?
Exactly, we had a littletemporary apartment in the
(14:12):
Castro, which was a fun, great,vibrant place to be hanging out.
As we started to anchorourselves and figure out, okay,
where do we actually want tolive?
I was checking out all thedifferent neighbourhoods and
Figuring out the vibe, I thinkit was at least a month in that
I got the realization that thisis not a vacation.
I now live in the dollar, notthe pound, and this is my
(14:35):
forever home, or at least thehome for the next two to three
years.
That's what we told all ourfamily and friends, that we were
going to make this move, try itout for two to three years.
If it didn't work, we couldalways come back and we still
had the house.
I found myself in a verydifferent culture.
I found that people weren'tunderstanding.
(14:56):
The people here?
The people here didn'tunderstand me very well.
What do you mean?
Just asking for very simplethings like, could I have a
bottle of water?
Please.
Huh.
So I had to rephrase the waythat I spoke, the way that I
greeted people coming fromLondon.
Back then we used to say, Areyou alright?
as a greeting and I noticed thatAmericans did not understand
(15:19):
that way of being greeted.
They're like, what do you mean?
Of course I'm alright.
So I had to rephrase and figureout My own place in this very
different culture, You weretalking about having to
acclimatize to the culture hereand I actually find it a little
(15:39):
bit surprising when you saidthat people here couldn't
understand you Is it that Iguess it's two things first of
all you understanding theculture and how they speak, how
they interact with each other,what that feels, sounds and
tastes like.
But then again, perhaps them nothaving a lot of exposure to the
(16:00):
British culture.
So when you came along and youwere like, Hi, you alright?
That's just completely foreignto them.
It's a foreign language.
How did you deal with that?
Initially, we found ourselves ina social group with a lot of
expats.
I was lucky enough to have anold college friend who had moved
(16:20):
out here a couple of years priorwith her husband, and they had
English friends, Canadian,Colombian friends, So we hung
out with this tight group ofpeople that were in the same
boat as us.
They understood that we didn'tquite belong yet.
And then as I was finding myway, I decided, Okay, I'm going
(16:42):
to try something completely newfor work.
I want to find out Who's in myneighborhood?
I want to meet new people.
As I was checking out thedifferent neighborhoods, I got
chatting to a lot of smallbusiness owners.
Asking them lots of questionsabout what it's like to run a
business in San Francisco.
What are the ups and downs?
(17:04):
It was something I wasn't veryfamiliar with because my
previous work in the fashionindustry was predominantly with
global brands.
Big, mostly Italian brands likeUnited Colors of Benetton,
Esprit.
I started falling in love withindependent small businesses and
as I got chatting to one of theowners, she was interested in my
background and she wantedsomeone to help run her
(17:26):
business.
So I started managing thisbusiness on her behalf and a lot
of the time I was working thefront desk.
And I started to just learn howto greet people and customer
service in America, which isvery different.
And I just found that I had tostep into almost like a new
identity.
(17:47):
How would you describe thatidentity that you had to step
into?
Were you happy about doing that?
Did it feel like, to do that,you've got to be prepared to be
able to morph yourself intosomebody else.
That's not easy to do.
A lot of people have to put on aparticular professional facade
when it comes to customerservices.
(18:10):
Very much in America, I waslistening to a podcast recently
and a couple of English hostswere talking about how jarring
they found the coverage of theMet Gala.
on the red carpet.
British TV presenters were verysurprised by how disingenuous
and disconnected the whole vibewas.
(18:30):
There is so much politeness andwarmth from some people but also
a disconnect from others I hadto learn to step into that
different way of talkingapproaching people and learning.
the level of customer servicethat's expected in America.
So you're having to step intobeing very polite, very
friendly, but not deeply.
(18:52):
Yes, and that was verySuperficial.
Yeah, it was ingrained in me Iobviously came from public
relations, so I love meetingpeople.
I'm a natural connector andcommunity builder, and I'm very
curious about meeting new peopleand asking questions and finding
out more about them.
So that kind of firstintroduction to working for a
small business, progressed intoworking for a couple of startups
(19:16):
and then creating my ownbranding and marketing agency.
I've had to, over the years,shapeshift a little bit into who
Sophie is in America.
And then I have to shapeshiftagain to being Sophie in the UK
when I go back to visit familyand friends.
When you go back to the UK, doyou automatically fall back into
(19:39):
your authentic self?
It takes a few days.
Yeah, it takes a few days.
I only see my family and friendsonce a year.
There's some old friends thatI've had since college, a couple
of girlfriends I've known sincemiddle school, that I just, we
just slipped back into where wejust left off.
It's comfortable and I can bemyself and we can be a bit silly
(20:02):
but it's a challenging thingwe've talked about this before,
about that kind of sense ofbelonging.
I feel like I've been reallyexploring this subject more I'm
coming to this realization thatidentity roles we play, and they
change over years, affect thecommunity of people that we
(20:24):
surround ourselves.
And as a result, it changes inour sense of belonging.
The identity that you adoptimpacts the people you're
around, or is it the other wayaround?
The people you're around impactYour identity, who you become.
Oh, that's a very good question.
(20:45):
I would say two examples wouldbe a year into moving.
No, I would say a year and ahalf into moving to the States,
I became a mum.
And when you become a mum, youstep into a new identity and
then you're around other mums,other mummy friends.
You are immersing yourself inthis mummy and me kind of
(21:09):
culture, and you're going to allthese play dates.
I was one of those people thatevery day my son had a little
activity that we would do everyday.
To keep busy and keep out of thehouse.
Then, that shifted when I becamea business owner.
All of a sudden I was wearing anew hat.
A business owner hat.
I was part of a businesspartnership.
(21:29):
My business partner was in thecity.
I was in Northern Marin.
Our halfway point was a coworking space and we started to
discover the power of communityand being around other business
owners that helped us feel lessalone and overwhelmed in
starting a new business,particularly in that first year.
(21:49):
I started to feel myselfshapeshift into this new
business owner who was hangingout in this new community of
business owners.
Do you think that ability toshift yourself from one state of
being to another is required tolive in America, to survive, to
(22:10):
thrive?
That's a good question.
I think it's probably the caseanywhere that we live.
Wonder if it's more so inAmerica because, I don't know,
Sophie in England, the Sophieyou are, your original authentic
self would she have done whatyou've done?
(22:32):
This is a strange questionbecause you are yourself, right?
Yeah.
Could that Sophie live inAmerica the way you do?
Because you're somebody elsewhen you're here.
Yes.
I'm very thankful that we weregiven the opportunity to move to
America because it is the landof opportunity and it is the
land of the American dream thatyou can work hard.
(22:57):
And be whoever you want to beand do whatever you want to do.
You're not restricted so much bythe class system.
As you are in the UK.
I noticed that growing up in aworking class family, and then I
also noticed a shift in the 90s,particularly in England and the
UK, where all of a sudden a lotof working class people were
(23:20):
becoming quite successful in,The art world, fashion, music.
That's right, and we don'treally have so much of a class
system here.
I have changed in a huge wayliving in America.
I have opportunities to build alife that I want to have here.
(23:43):
That I don't know if I wouldnecessarily have in the UK.
I think in the UK I would havestuck to a more Traditional
career pathway of working forsomebody else.
Working hard, being successfuland well known in that role,
rather than being a founder, adriver to other people's
(24:04):
success.
I say that now, but that's just,my opinion.
But I know from looking onInstagram and following a lot of
communities and people in theUK, that there is an
entrepreneurial.
spirit, also in London.
If I was to ever go back, I'msure that there'll be co working
spaces and communities that Icould be part of, I just don't
(24:26):
think I had access to it.
Back then.
So has life in the US turned outthe way you had planned you came
and you just jumped into it.
Yeah, it's funny, when I lookback I think, what was I
thinking?
I had no plan at all.
I remember sitting down with, Ithink it was the first meal on
the second night of arriving inSan Francisco and my friend's
(24:48):
husband turned to me and said,Okay.
So, what are you going to donow?
What's the plan?
What's the plan?
And I was like, oh my god, Ihave no plan.
I don't know.
I'm just spontaneous.
And I think that's not a badthing, is it?
Would you do it the same wayagain, do you think?
Gosh.
Would you advise anyone to do itthe way you did it?
(25:12):
I would recommend researchingand planning it more than I did.
What sort of things would yourecommend researching?
Back in 2007, we were just inthe infancy of social media.
I think it was the first summerthat people in the UK were
getting on Facebook.
And it definitely wasn't beingused for businesses back then.
(25:32):
But now we have such access,such windows into people's lives
and neighbourhoods and thedifferent communities within
neighbourhoods that You can justgo on Instagram and find out
what's going on, what's thevibe, what's happening in that
neighborhood, where's peoplehanging out, where are the
people that I want to spend timewith hanging out and what are
they doing, where are they goingand what are they talking about.
(25:54):
So there's more of anopportunity and tools that we
can use.
To forward plan and researchmore.
A bit like taking a trip, if yougo to New Orleans for the first
time, the first tool I use isInstagram to find out where I'm
going to eat, where am I goingto stay, where am I going to
shop.
Entertainment, crime rates, allthe lovely stuff.
No, truthfully, you want tocheck everything out.
(26:16):
But, do you feel American or doyou still feel Brit?
I don't feel American.
And that's because I have neverfelt more English living in
America.
I think, I didn't really noticeor understand my identity as a
(26:39):
British woman living in London.
And then you take the Britishwoman out of London and you
plonk her in Marin County andyou notice how the people around
you react to your accent.
They react to the phrases andthe words that you use, and
people treat you differently.
(27:02):
So you've been leaning intothat.
I've been leaning into that,yeah.
I'm a British woman raising twoAmerican kids that are both born
here.
And I don't think my accent hasparticularly changed.
If anything, maybe it's gotstronger.
I just use American words,obviously.
Like garbage rather thanrubbish.
But I still put the bins outrather than the garbage cans
(27:25):
out.
And that gets picked up andpicked apart by family members
and friends when I go back tothe UK.
But no, I don't feel American.
I love my life as a Britishwoman living in America.
I'm What is it about living herethat you love?
(27:47):
we live in a very beautifulplace.
So we are based in Marin County,which is about an hour north of
the Golden Gate Bridge.
So we have access to amazingcountryside, rolling hills.
It's very green here.
We also are very close to thebay.
(28:07):
We have beautiful views here.
It's pretty easy to get around.
We don't have very much traffic.
Occasionally Highway 101 gets alittle jam packed.
It's mainly one road in, oneroad out.
I love, first of all, thenatural beauty.
I love the weather in spring andfall.
I'm not crazy about the heightof summer.
(28:28):
The heat is a bit unbearable.
I have to psych myself up to runfrom, if I've parked outside, to
run from the front door to getinto the car.
Because it burns.
And now you're getting into abaking hot car.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
The heat is ridiculous.
I'm Irish and I have an Irishskin tone so I can't handle the
heat very well.
(28:49):
You just burn and peel.
But we all live in AC a lotduring the summer.
Thank God for AC.
I'm very lucky that I have ahouse with AC.
And what are the other thingsthat, what's keeping you here?
First of all, we're here becausemy husband has a great job, and
let's be honest, if he was tomove back to the UK, his salary
would not be the same, there'sthat that's keeping us here, the
(29:12):
kids are very settled in school,we've got another five, six
years left until they both areoff to college, who knows what
life will look like once thathappens.
I'm very conscious.
Of the window of opportunityfrom becoming an empty nester
and having that freedom totravel and live the life that
(29:34):
you want to live before mobilityand health starts to decline.
And I'm looking forward to thatopportunity of seeing the world,
travelling more.
My husband is away travellingall the time with work.
If we were to meet again twoyears from now, what do you want
(29:55):
us to be talking about?
What would you hope that youwould be telling me two years
from now?
The first thing I always thinkabout is how old are my kids
going to be in two years?
My son will be 17 going on 18.
And my daughter will be 15 goingon 16.
Gosh, we'll be in collegeapplication mode.
What would we want to be talkingabout then?
(30:15):
I guess I would like to betalking about hopefully the
possibility of exploring more ofAmerica with them.
They're old enough now tounderstand that.
If we can afford to, because thecost of travel in America is
ridiculously high, compared togetting around in Europe, I
would love to be traveling morewith my kids around Europe too.
There's parts of Europe that Ihave never been to I really want
(30:38):
to go to Greece and Croatia ison my bucket list, I love
Mallorca and all the BalearicIslands, I'd love to take my
kids there.
So travel, I guess making themost of those last few years
before they go off to collegeand then just wanting to hang
out with their peers andgirlfriends and boyfriends and
(30:58):
don't have enough time to hangout with us anymore.
With the parents, yeah.
It sounds like you really misshome.
I do.
Do you still have a longing?
I miss the culture, I miss thepeople, I miss the humour and I
miss the food.
Oh, tell me, what foods do youmiss?
As soon as I go back, you'reprobably the same.
I love going to Marks andSpencer's.
(31:19):
Oh, yes.
Or Waitrose.
Yes.
And getting the quintessentialBritish picnic food.
I love a scotch egg, pork pie,cocktail sausages.
It's all the pastry things thatare not very good for you.
Sausage rolls, a really goodsausage roll.
My favourite chocolate bar.
Yes, biscuits.
(31:40):
Yes.
So I don't eat very healthy, ina healthy way when I go back.
But the thing is, you probablydo, but for me, when we land and
we're on our way from theairport to the house, we have to
stop.
My daughter has now picked upthe habit, because we go in for
their chocolate mousse, which ismy favourite dessert.
(32:02):
It's Marks and Spencer'schocolate mousse.
We go for the hot cross buns.
We go for the poppadoms crisps.
All the stuff we can't get here.
It's like a mad dash.
Give me, give me, give me.
It's like you're a child in atoy shop when you go to a
(32:22):
supermarket.
I always play the game with myhusband and my kids.
Can you believe how much thisis?
You literally are walking aroundpicking things up.
Can you believe how cheap thisis?
The cost of groceries are soaffordable compared to groceries
in California.
And another thing that I love todo Which I think a lot of people
(32:44):
find is quite bizarre.
I love going to a newsagents orgoing to WHSmith.
And standing in front of the bigmagazine aisle.
And just look at all themagazines.
Which one am I going to have?
Psychology.
Yeah, they've got psychologyhere.
Red magazine is my favoritemagazine of all time.
I've collected almost everyissue since it launched.
(33:06):
Really?
And you keep hold of them?
Yeah, I have them all on thebookshelves in my bedroom.
I love them.
It's the only magazine thatfeels like home to me.
Pouring through the pages with anice cup of tea.
When I get a copy of that itmakes my whole day.
I love it.
I get really excited about.
The Sunday papers, yes, thetimes I have to get a copy of
(33:27):
the Times.
Every Sunday.
My husband's now into it and wehave to go to a pub.
A gastropub, just sit, if it'swinter, it's got to have a
fireplace and sit down and havesomething hot, a cider or lager
with the Sunday times.
I never used to do that when Iwas over there.
But every time I go back now, Ihave to launch into these
(33:50):
quintessentially English thingsand just soak it up.
I love the Sunday Times, I lovethe Sunday Telegraph.
It was actually part of my jobthat over the weekend, everyone
in the agency, in the fashionindustry, we all had a paper,
each newspaper we were assignedto, so every weekend we had to
read the paper, and then onMonday morning in our meeting,
(34:12):
first thing we had to report.
Or what press coverage ourclients had appeared in what
newspaper.
It was a bit of a job, and itwas a bit of homework, but now I
miss it desperately.
I love the supplements, and thejournalism that you get in the
UK.
That's something you don'treally get here.
We have the Sunday, SanFrancisco Chronicle, and the
(34:34):
Marine Independent Journal, butit's not the same league as the
Sunday Times and the SundayTelegraph.
I hate to say it, but it's not.
And there are wonderful thingshere, but the journalism is not
one of them.
There are great journalists.
No, I love sitting on a Sundaymorning looking through the New
York Times, but I miss the pointof view.
The point of view and thewriting.
(34:55):
It's the humor that I miss aswell.
Okay, we've talked so much aboutthe stuff we miss, but the fact
is that we live here, you'velived here for longer than I
have, do you think you'll retirehere?
I feel like I know the answer tothat, but I have to ask you, can
you see yourself retiring here?
Well, the people I surroundmyself in retirement is going to
(35:16):
be very important to me.
I I'd love to be back in Englandor in a beautiful island of
Mallorca or somewhere gorgeoussurrounded by my close
girlfriends.
Not here.
I think it'd be very expensiveto retire in America.
I'd like to go back to perhapsfree healthcare.
(35:37):
The cost of healthcare.
If it remains free.
If it remains free.
Yes.
Let's hope it does.
I would say that you've lived ablessed life here, would you
agree?
Yes.
Is there anything else that youwould change?
And the reason why I ask that isbecause some of our listeners
(35:58):
might be people from Europe,around the world, who are
thinking, maybe I'd like to goand experience this.
Life in America.
It's a land of opportunities, asyou said.
Maybe I'd like to see what I cando, what I can create.
What would you say to somebodywith that mindset?
Given your experience.
(36:22):
I'm lucky that I don't have anyregrets because Every failure
teaches us how to succeedbetter.
I would perhaps, if I was to goback, if I was to turn the clock
back a few years, I would makemore time to discover more of
the country I live in.
I think we're very spoilt livingin California, that we can go to
(36:43):
the beach, we can get in a carand drive to the mountains and
go skiing.
We've got water, we've gotdesert, we've got everything
that we need within one state,but it makes us a little lazy
that we don't leave that state.
Perhaps I would have exploredAmerica a bit more.
Explore the country andunderstand how the life we live
(37:04):
in California and perhaps theEast Coast is very different to
how people in the Midwest live.
I've only explored the EastCoast once with my family last
summer and we loved it.
I had such a great time and it'sa very different vibe than it is
in the UK.
(37:25):
I'd want to live somewhere.
I've always been thinking aboutwhat would life be like on the
East Coast?
I just would not be able tohandle the snow.
I would love to do Washington,but maybe in the summer.
Yes.
Yes.
See, I haven't been toWashington DC.
I haven't been to Chicago.
I would love to go to Charlestonand Savannah and explore.
(37:48):
My husband's always talkingabout how much he loves Miami.
I've never been to Miami.
So yeah, I think there's a lotto explore of America.
I need to see more of it.
I feel like people are very goodat talking about the times that
they've struggled after thefact.
(38:12):
So, it's a nice safe narrative,to say, I was really struggling
with my sense of purpose or mysense of self and understanding
who I am and how I fit in theworld and then this happened and
now I'm in such a better place.
It's interesting, you never hearabout it when people are going
(38:33):
through it at the time.
And I understand that it's raw,and it's painful, and it's hard,
and it's messy, and we have tofigure it out privately, and we
have to talk about it with ourclose loved ones.
We have to journal through itand figure it out, and maybe the
way that we're communicating itin the moment.
Might not make a lot of sense toothers, never mind ourselves.
(38:55):
I was listening to a reallyrefreshing podcast interview
with Amanda Ducadne, who we'vegrown up watching, who's been on
British TV since she was 16.
She moved to America in herearly 20s and became a very
successful photographer.
She was like, I'm going to getreally vulnerable and tell you
that I am in transition.
As we speak, I am trying tofigure my next step and my next
(39:20):
role, I know the things that Ifind uncomfortable that there's
a lot of weight and prestige puton, particularly women, around
their social media numbers.
Their following and how muchinfluence I have.
I do not feel comfortablehanging out on Instagram and
being so public.
(39:41):
We should be validating people'sworth based on their influence
and the way that they marketthemselves and their social
media numbers.
And there must be another wayand I'm trying to figure out
what that other way is.
And I was like, wow, that'sfantastic to hear a woman.
Going through that transition.
We never hear the woman'sjourney when she's in it, when
(40:02):
she's going through that messypart of life.
We always hear it when they'vecome out the other end.
Is it because there's anattachment of shame?
Some sense of failure?
And We feel as if it's not okayto share.
That vulnerability.
I'm vulnerable right now.
I feel ashamed of it because I'mgoing through this period of I'm
(40:25):
not okay.
I'm transitioning from whateverI was and I'm finding it really
hard.
The real place that you're inright now, rather than this sort
of chosen, successful narrativethat I have it all figured out.
Yeah, because nobody has.
No, no one has.
I'm sure there's lots of womenout there doing their keynote
(40:46):
speeches and their podcastinterviews and they might be
telling one narrative that theyfeel comfortable sharing.
Yeah.
But behind closed doors,privately, they're probably in
some kind of transition orfiguring out their next move.
Or figuring out, what their nextstory is.
Or their next chapter is andthis is so very much the reason
why I want to do this podcast,why it's so very important to
(41:08):
me.
Because the experiences thatI've had, I after I had my kid
and I was like, I don't think Ican do this, especially without
my family.
I'm a new mom.
I'm very familiar with theboardroom, very familiar with
being that go getter, verycareer focused and achievement
focused and loving it.
But this lifestyle, I don't haveany real connections.
(41:31):
I'm trying to really connectwith these people around me.
I'm trying to figure out howmotherhood works.
I'm trying to make sure that mynew child is healthy and is
being safe.
I don't know how to connect withthese people.
They don't know how to connectwith me.
It seems like they are havingtrouble figuring me out.
First and foremost, I'm humanand that should be enough.
(41:53):
But actually, they were tryingto figure out.
How to connect what they'rehearing with what they're
seeing.
It was a little bit troublingfor them and I could see that.
But I'm saying to him, there issomething not working here.
I think I might need to go backbecause I'm not sure I can
sustain this.
And he was at work.
It was really difficult.
And so for my safety and myhealth, I kept saying to him, I
(42:16):
think I need to go back.
But he was willing and prayingfor me to hold on and try to
come up with ideas or try thisand go here and it wasn't until
I stopped and I gave up tryingto connect with people and just
going out and making myselfhappy, choosing to think
differently.
And just to phone my family, beon calls with them, and ask for
(42:40):
their help that way.
That's when I started feelingbetter.
As we get older, we understandthat we don't always make a real
connection with the people thatwe meet.
Maybe it will happen once, twicein a year.
So when you notice that spark,you're like, oh my god.
This person gets me.
(43:00):
I can show up as my true self.
There's this feeling of safety.
And I think we get so boggeddown with this I must belong, I
must belong.
And I've realized that a senseof safety around people that you
can be yourself with, ratherthan being the person they want
you to be, is much moreimportant.
(43:21):
That's right, because when wemove, one of our Shared Space
business besties said this to mein discussing the challenges of
moving from one country, yourhome of origin, leaving your
culture and your people thefirst thing you Ask is, am I
okay?
Am I safe?
And then, can I belong here ordo I belong here?
(43:44):
And do I matter?
Do I matter?
That's right.
I think it's got a lot to dowith culture.
I remember when, the first bigmove for me was leaving home and
moving to university.
And that was a huge cultureshift.
Yeah.
And I had to figure out my placein the world around.
(44:04):
Thankfully, they are salt- of-the- Earth's friendliest
people, and that opened my eyesto how humans should be
interacting with humans, andstrangers should be interacting
with strangers on a daily basis,I'm really thankful for that,
because life in London was verydifferent.
Oh, yes.
People who've made the move to adifferent country or are
(44:25):
thinking about moving to adifferent country or thinking
about moving back to theircountry of origin.
They're all transitions in someway of moving away from
familiarity.
It takes a lot of courage.
You definitely need creativity.
And it doesn't come with alittle guidebook.
There are guidebooks out there,but you have to figure it out
(44:47):
for yourself.
Yeah, we do.
But we have people like you,Sophie, who come alongside us
and help us make sense of thisthing that we're trying to do.
The nature of being a businessowner, particularly a
solopreneur, is a reallyoverwhelming and isolating one.
We have to make so manydifferent decisions, figure out
so much by ourselves.
(45:09):
All we need to do is go back tosome community or group of
people that That has some kindof consistency from familiarity
that we can actually say, youknow what?
I don't know how to figure thisout.
Have you gone through a similarsituation?
How did you handle it?
Do you know someone who's donethis and did they do it well?
Other people's experiences oftransitioning from their home,
(45:32):
their first place that they callhome.
to this new land.
We learn a lot about ourselvesthrough other people's stories.
Yes.
Sophie, thank you so much.
I feel like we can keep chattingfor hours.
Our teas are cold.
The banana bread is still there.
It's probably almost time topick up the kids.
(45:52):
No, not quite yet.
So thank you listeners for beingwith us and I hope that you
gained so much from this chat.
I want to say our fireside chatbut it's blazing outside and
there's no fire roaring hereit's been an amazing experience
for me to be here with Sophietoday and to have you with us.
Have a lovely day bye bye.
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