Have you ever tried so hard to fit in somewhere new that you forgot who you actually are?
This funny, entertaining, authentic life story resonates with anyone who's ever struggled to adapt to a new culture without losing themselves in the process.
In this episode you'll discover:
- Fitting in doesn't require becoming somebody else
- Adapting to life in the USA doesn't mean erasing yourself
- Rebuilding a life abroad often starts with knowing who you are
A reflective episode with entrepreneur Amy Denebeim-Dean, co owner of Crown And Crumpet Tea House in San Francisco. Hear how this Oxford-educated American immersed herself in the English upper-middle-class society, what she has observed about acculturation and imitation, and why every woman immigrating to a new country must take note.
Hit play to explore the real cost of fitting in and discover how to root yourself deeply—no matter where life takes you.
To share your own migration story or give your feedback, email guest@Theplaceswecallhome.com
This compelling podcast dives into Expat and immigrant women (and men) stories. Those who immigrate to the USA, tackling the struggles of homesickness, identity crisis, and culture shock in the USA while adjusting to expat life and navigating cultural differences. Through conversations on starting over, reinventing yourself, and finding purpose, it highlights success stories of women's tenacity, and the resilience of expats in the USA. It offers insights into bicultural identity, language barriers, and the challenges of living overseas. The podcast emphasizes the importance of a strong support system and wellbeing for women in pursuit of the American dream.
Fortnam And Mason, afternoon tea, Crown And Crumpet
https://www.instagram.com/theplaces_wecallhome
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Today we are taking anunfiltered look at identity
shifts, getting a better idea ofwhat it looks like when blending
in begins to blur the boundariesof who you truly are.
Welcome to starting over in theUSA, the Expat Woman's Guide to
overcoming homesickness,embracing cultural differences,
(00:26):
and creating a new home awayfrom home.
On this podcast, we talk aboutleaving behind the familiar, you
know, the pangs of homesicknessand culture shock to the
journeys of reinventingyourself.
I'm Yolanda Sima.
And after relocating six times,I know firsthand what it's like
to start from scratch, feelinglike both a foreign child and a
(00:50):
foreign adult in a new world.
I'm so excited about today'sepisode.
I feel like my guest, miss AmyDabbin Dean, is going to give us
so much to take away andconsider as expat women, but I
feel I want to focus on threeparticular takeaways.
(01:10):
The first is that you can adaptto life in the USA without you
erasing yourself.
Rebuilding a life abroad startswith knowing who you are and
last fitting in doesn't requirebecoming somebody else.
Let's get into it.
In the room we have Amy Dennabean dean.
(01:31):
Co owner of crown and crumpetstea house in San Francisco and
in a Marin.
Amy, yes.
Why don't you start with tellingus a little bit about yourself?
Oh my God.
Where do I begin?
And my English accent.
English accent.
You can do your us accent.
(01:51):
And, It can even flip and flopas he wished.
So my name is Amy and I was bornand raised in San Francisco,
California.
And always had the ambition tolive my life in England.
I was a great Anglophile at ayoung age, because of my love of
history.
And I didn't know how I wasgoing to wangle it, but I
managed it.
(02:12):
And I lived there for 24 years.
Would you say you left yourAmerican side and completely
immersed yourself in the wholelife of being an English woman.
Yes.
Yes.
One tries, but the English arenot very good about letting you
do that fully.
(02:32):
So it was a bit challenging.
The English never liked to letyou forget where you are from
and all you are.
Really.
Is that what you experienced?
Oh my God.
Yes.
In what.
Tell us about that.
Tell.
D just, they immediately hearyour accent and they go, oh,
you're a yank.
What you do in either then?
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah they're completelyfascinated by Americans and this
(02:56):
is keep in mind this is a longtime ago.
I lived there from 1983, until2000, about 2000.
So 20 some odd years, 2000 tothree.
And now it's changed even again.
Now that I've been back here for20 years.
But.
They are always fascinated byAmericans.
In a good way.
(03:17):
Usually in a good way, butsometimes there's always the
little jab, and you Americans,you yanks.
I'm like what the heck is, whatwould the yank bit.
But they always like to lit.
Turn the screw a little bit.
They don't, oh, I loveAmericans.
Oh my God.
I love America.
It's always, I love Florida.
Oh, the sunny bits.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
And but the sort of the mix,little micro aggressions and I
(03:40):
would just go along with it orsmile and go, what.
Okay.
So what made you stay though?
Was it hard for you to livethrough that and experience
that?
And wasn't that difficult?
Because of my sense of humor andme, just like what as the half
of it went over my head anyway.
Oh a long time to learn.
Just as well.
It took a while to learn all thenuances I went to university
(04:01):
there and that, that was a realeye opener.
Where did.
Did you go to uni?
I was at Oxford.
Oh.
What did you study it?
One is it officer?
Ops with one reads.
Educate your home and little me.
What did you read at Oxford?
I read history at modelingcollege.
(04:23):
And there's about 38 colleges atthe university.
And it's a whole tutorialsystem.
It's a much different way ofeducating one at the university
level and it worked well for mebecause I have dyslexia.
And you you write a lot ofpapers.
Yeah, read a lot at the Bodleianlibrary.
(04:44):
It was so much fun.
I was completely immersed and itwas way of course, before Harry
Potter, I can't even say it howare you Potter?
But it was very much like that.
Sitting at high table.
It college for dinners and itwas really fun, but I was living
in a bubble and a lot of peoplego to Oxford and Cambridge never
want to leave because it'scomplete bubble life.
(05:06):
At some point you've got to go.
And then she going to be anacademic and I wasn't clever
enough to be one.
And I did try to do a seconddegree.
And my tutor said, absolutelynot.
You haven't got the personalityfor it.
You need to go out and live yourlife because you've got too much
personality.
You had too much personality forOxford?
Yes.
You They couldn't contain you?
No.
He said you absolutely need you.
(05:28):
Live a life.
He cannot be locked away in alibrary and the Ashmolean
researching some skill painterthat no one cares about.
And you said, oh, yes.
Thank you very much.
I agree with you and off youwent.
oh, no, you didn't.
Oh, I was devastated.
I thought you knew, and this issomething you learn, you should
learn as a young person.
(05:49):
Is that, this was what I thoughtmy dream was.
This is what I wanted to do.
I worked really hard.
And then they said, no, youcan't do it.
And with hindsight, of course,one realizes he's absolutely
right.
There's no way that I was cutout for it.
But it would have been reallyhard and had items already hard.
But, he said, you've got to goout and live a life and do
(06:09):
something way more interestingthan like you said, researching
obscure French 18th centuryartists.
So once he left Oxford, We willget onto the whole coming back
to America and what thattransition was like a little bit
later.
I'm just intrigued by anAmerican girl in London, having
studied at Oxford, what was yourlife like that once you left?
(06:31):
How did you Swan around?
I think growing up in SanFrancisco, my father worked for
a British bank.
And he would bring me backmagazines, like Harpers And
Queen and Tatler and teenagemagazines.
And you learn a lot frommagazines, unfortunately,
they're not around like theyused to be, but yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
I learned everything I knewabout the English culture from
(06:53):
reading lots of differentwomen's magazines and teenage
magazines.
Even in my twenties, I read fab2 0 8 and take weightness in
America.
Some of the English teenagemagazines.
I can't remember anymore.
Anyway.
So I picked the world.
I wanted to go towards.
And what world was that?
(07:14):
The upper middle class.
And it's yes, of course.
Yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
Yes.
And because of being at Oxfordknowing lots of kids who went to
boarding schools, publicschools.
It was definitely the uppermiddle classes.
How did you graft yourself in?
If that's what you did.
No.
Yeah.
Yes, I just play, Okay.
(07:34):
I knew a girl who was in similarsituation.
She was an American.
She didn't go to universitythere, but her ambition was to
live in England and really fitright into the British upper
classes.
And her name.
Where is she now?
She was a friend of my cousinwho was American and she was
Californian.
And she had this complete,really good English accent,
(07:55):
almost as good as mine.
And I was like, wait, What, whoare you?
You're American.
The kind of questions peoplewould ask me, but she faked it
completely and never came out ofit.
I Did it as like theatrical andbeing funny and cheeky.
Cause I use my sense of humor tonavigate the world.
And this girl was totallyserious and completely obsessed
(08:17):
with being English and beingaccepted by the people she chose
to hang out with, which wasdefinitely upper middle classes.
And she was very impressivebecause she didn't go to school
there, she didn't go touniversity.
Somewhere in her psyche had thedream that I need to be here.
Like she had to be in Englandand she fit right in.
But at the end of the day, Idon't think she was that happy
(08:39):
because she wasn't really beingtrue to herself.
But I don't know, we lost trackof her, but I just couldn't
believe how I was go.
How can you keep talking?
She inspired you to do the same.
Oh, my God.
She put a full picture ofherself in front of me that made
me realize that that's not beingtrue to yourself.
So my whole English accent andmy whole like, Oh, I know about
(09:02):
the British culture.
I know how to fit in and say,doing right things.
What was just from ananthropology.
Information and experiment forme.
I never tried to fake it somuch.
Occasionally I'd do it forentertainment, like fake it, to
pretend it, gosh.
People would say you have thebest American accent.
I'm like, oh, Because you'reAmerican, yeah, but when I met
(09:25):
you, I really thought you wereEnglish.
No, I'm sorry.
No, don't be sorry.
No.
Totally.
No, we were going to be friends,but that's okay because that's
so cool because the funny thingis that I feel as though you you
throw yourself in.
Oh, totally.
Yes.
Yes.
In order to live there in orderto be accepted, right?
(09:47):
And immerse yourself.
In order to have real friendsand just be comfortable and
happy.
It's difficult to have one footin and the other foot in some
other country.
Yeah, yes.
Yes.
And it was survival mode in away, but in such a superficial
way, because it, wasn't verydifficult.
(10:09):
It wasn't like, I was ooohh Ihave to to survive here.
It was my choice.
Yes.
But it just was interestingseeing this one gal who was, we
were on the same track trying tomake our lives in the UK and
wanting to be accepted.
And we both immersed ourselvesin it, but I took it less
seriously.
And I don't know if it's becauseI felt more secure in who I was
(10:29):
I don't know, but this poor girljust, she had a rough time.
No.
People totally just assumed shewas English, she thought that
she would have this type oflife.
The movie?
Romcom!.
Yes.
And I don't know if she's stillliving this life and she's
living this lie.
It's not really it's herreality, I just look at her and
go, what.
(10:49):
Why would you do that?
Were you successful in adaptingto that life over there and what
you accepted by the people youchose to build a tribe among.
Yes.
I feel like I was very much butalways oh, that's my American
(11:12):
friend that I haven't heard alot.
Oh, Amy's American.
Oh yeah.
She's a little crazy.
Or, she says what's on her mind,which is not very English.
Yeah, I never thought I'd everleave.
Because I was so comfortablethere.
And so what caused you to leaveyour adopted home?
England.
You really want to know that Ido want to know.
Oh, my God.
Chris and I lived on a fallenroad.
(11:33):
And London in 19.
99 in the late nineties, really,is just what it is today is not,
it's so different and morevibrant, more interesting and
more dynamic back then it wasgetting a little stale.
And the last thing that happenedwas Chris was walking the dogs
at 11 o'clock at night.
We lived near the Chelseafootball ground and the Chelsea
game was going on, and peoplewere leaving and oh boy, and the
(11:56):
drinking, the amount of alcoholcrazy.
Yeah.
Anyway, Chris was trying tocross the street, but the
results traffic and there was adude.
In our doorway with his trousersdown and relieving himself,
shall we say.
No.
Which people do alternate,either getting sick or peeing on
the street.
The whole football.
(12:16):
Drunk.
The partying, lose your mind,talking about the women.
Walking around deep.
We show it to him.
But I actually miss seeing thosecrazy.
It's about being back at home.
Yeah.
It's funny.
Now we it's amusing, but thisguy was doing that in.
Chris's all you like trying toget his attention.
(12:38):
And he turned around and flippedChris off and just zip draws us
off and went up the road.
And Chris came in the front doorand yelled up to him.
He goes, that's it.
We're leaving this damn countryand within three or four months,
we were gone.
And you came back here.
And we came to San Francisco.
So what was San Francisco likewhen you came back?
Because you had left SanFrancisco at age, what?
(13:00):
18, 18.
And you had now come backmarried.
Yes.
Yes.
And you're in your, late throughearly, like 40, so I missed
about 24 years of Americanculture.
I came back for the holidays andstuff.
Yeah.
People always talk about some ofthese TV shows.
I'm like, yeah.
I don't know it, Seinfeld, Ionly caught on to like in 2000,
(13:23):
but so it was a new beginningreading.
When he came back, you had toreestablish your friendships.
Yes.
And start complete new onesbecause the people I'd left in
San Francisco were high schoolfriends and they had obviously
moved on, moved away.
How did you go aboutreestablishing yourself?
As an American girl who hadmoved away from America,
(13:44):
immersed herself in all thingsBritish.
I loved it.
Flourished in it.
What was that like?
So our ambition to come backhere was to be antique dealers.
Chris was an antique dealer.
I worked in the film businesses.
Prop buyer's set dress.
I've worked for Ralph Lauren asa display director.
So my background afteruniversity was visual
(14:05):
merchandise.
Yeah.
Yeah, kinda and Chris was anantique dealer and knew 18th and
19th century ceramics furniture,glassware, everything.
Oh, beautiful.
Yeah, really great.
And San Francisco had a vibrantantique community.
And so we imported a ton ofthings from France and England,
and our ambition was to open aretail store, antique shop,
(14:26):
which we did within a year ortwo, I think.
And it was called La Place duSolei.
yes.
Because I had some.
Yes, exactly.
Cause I had my godmother who'sAmerican had a famous shop in
San Francisco in the seventiescalled La Ville Du Soleil.
Okay.
And it was such off the chartsand incredible retail
(14:46):
experience.
And she was a real pioneer inthis kind of concept and that's
a whole nother compensationanyway.
So we opened this little shop inRussian hill on Polk street.
And the community in Russianhill really became our new
community.
And we made a lot of friends inthat neighborhood.
We were there for eight years,but we didn't have a child.
(15:07):
You have a kid, you send them toschool and you meet the parents
and you're like, okay, there'syour new group of friends?
So this was local neighborhoodpeople.
A few of my old high schoolfriends, maybe, not many.
So just starting over.
As a business owner.
So you, would you say youconnected with other business
owners?
No.
The people come and spend moneywith us.
(15:30):
Those are the people youconnected with?
Yeah coming into your shop?.
What you just chatted them up.
Yeah.
And you're going to be my newfriend sorta kinda, I didn't
have to tell them.
That's.
A little bit to frank but in aroundabout way.
We established relationshipswith people because when you're
selling antiques, You got toreally schmooze him and tell him
(15:51):
why they need to buy instead ofso it's the gift of the gab.
It's the salesmen in us.
Chris and I are both really goodsalespeople.
I'm a little more forceful.
Chris is more with his Englishaccent.
He could tell him.
In fact, when I met Chris I Iremember at an antique show that
in London because they workedfor Ralph Lauren.
I used to buy a lot of stuff forRalph Lauren.
(16:13):
And I remember going his.
His ex-wife, who's a lovely ladyand a great friend.
She used to, I used to buythings from her, but one time
she wasn't there that weekend.
And so I was like, who's thatdude?
And the, as soon as you starttalking, they're going to make
you buy something.
Your F they don't make it, but Iremember picking something up
and going.
That's interesting.
And then he takes it from.
And he said, oh, this is neat incentury.
(16:34):
Wallet or something and it is.
Looking at this lovely thing.
And I was like, So much timetalking about the damn wallet, I
felt obligated to purchase it.
And then.
And I bought it.
And then about six years later,he comes over to my flat and
there it is.
And this is a little vignette Ihad.
Little antiquey things and hepicks it up and he goes, you
(16:56):
bought this for me, not withthat accent.
Of course.
You pulled that from me.
And I was like, oh my God, Idid.
That was you.
I remember I felt like I had tobuy it from you.
And I was like, oh my God.
Yeah, I still have it.
Where the hell is that thing?
Anyway, but he was a goodsalesman.
So of course we are, we wouldsit down with people, have a cup
(17:17):
of tea.
We chat about the 18th century,heavily legs on a piece of
furniture.
And then they'd say, oh, I'mgoing to have that mind living
because antique furniture is themost sustainable way.
So here's my next question.
I know.
I go off on a diatribe.
Sorry.
I love going up the garden part.
But the back of the house anddown again, Yeah, cause it's
fun.
(17:38):
It's enjoyable.
Please don't stop doing that.
As long as I'm not boring.
Definitely not boring anyone.
Okay.
So here's the question.
Yeah.
Where is home?
For you.
In my heart now I'm teasing.
What you mean?
Yeah, it's a little crap, man.
Where's my home physically.
Yeah.
Oh, yes.
(17:58):
What was your sense of home?
Where do you feel you belong?
That's a really good questionand it's rather difficult, but
now I've been here for 20 years.
Oh my God.
Stop.
With the English accent.
Okay.
Yeah.
You can't help yourself becauseI feel like it's in your genes,
you are supposed to be English,Amy.
Leave it alone.
And that's why you have this teashop we'll talk about tin pump
(18:21):
at your tea shop and just themovement.
So carry on.
Tell me about your sense of homeand where you feel you belong.
Oh, my God.
That's like really deep.
I don't know if I can come upwith an answer.
Yeah.
San Francisco, I have such anaffinity, like when you're from
San Francisco, you can't belike, you're so spoiled San
Francisco is different now, but.
(18:42):
And it's such a small town andwe, our family has been here a
long time but then being awayfrom it for so long.
Everything's new again.
But now I'm a little bit morenow we live in Marine county,
which is a whole nother world,but do I feel super English.
It's I've been away for so longfrom England and we go back to
one time, two times a year.
(19:03):
We used to do even more.
And so I would get my fix and mykick, but I don't know.
I guess I'm American.
But that's just.
We'll be offended all youAmericans.
It's not that bad.
I knew, but now once you've seenlife on the other side, I tell
(19:24):
you we need to take a littlebreak yes, let's just take a
little break and have some teaand scones we are going to be
back with Amy for part two butbefore we go, here are the three
concepts that I want you to takeaway.
The first is you can adapt tothe new life in your new country
(19:45):
without absolutely erasingyourself.
Adapting is necessary, but selferasure is not.
Second takeaway is thatrebuilding a life abroad starts
with knowing who you are, notwho you are expected to become
and that leads to my lasttakeaway, which is that we need
(20:08):
to understand the culture thatwe now live in when we move to
the USA, to understand the vibesof the local people.
The community we want to becomea part of, but we also need to
be ourselves.
You don't have to becomesomebody else in order to fit
in.
And I know we have heard that somany times before.
(20:31):
But the fact of the matter isthat when we moved to the US and
encountered new communities,their own ways of working, of
interacting and I had a choice.
I can imitate or be authenticand see what happens.
I honestly do not buy the ideathat we need to imitate.
(20:52):
I think we definitely need toacculturate.
But we certainly don't have toshrink back or to hide or or
forever perform in order tobelong, order to be seen.
Because I'm now sensing that Ihave learned over the years that
fulfillment and contentment andself-worth is anchored in our
(21:18):
ability to be comfortable withwho we are at this point of our
lives.
That's it from me today.
Circle back for part two formore perspectives on
acculturation and some realtalks and laughs with my guest
Amy De Dean.
In the meantime, download andlisten to episode four.
(21:39):
Why Trying to Fit In is a trapfor immigrant women and discover
what you can do instead.
Today we are taking anunfiltered look at identity
shifts, getting a better idea ofwhat it looks like when blending
in begins to blur the boundariesof who you truly are.
Welcome to starting over in theUSA, the Expat Woman's Guide to
overcoming homesickness,embracing cultural differences,
(00:26):
and creating a new home awayfrom home.
On this podcast, we talk aboutleaving behind the familiar, you
know, the pangs of homesicknessand culture shock to the
journeys of reinventingyourself.
I'm Yolanda Sima.
And after relocating six times,I know firsthand what it's like
to start from scratch, feelinglike both a foreign child and a
(00:50):
foreign adult in a new world.
I'm so excited about today'sepisode.
I feel like my guest, miss AmyDabbin Dean, is going to give us
so much to take away andconsider as expat women, but I
feel I want to focus on threeparticular takeaways.
(01:10):
The first is that you can adaptto life in the USA without you
erasing yourself.
Rebuilding a life abroad startswith knowing who you are and
last fitting in doesn't requirebecoming somebody else.
Let's get into it.
In the room we have Amy Dennabean dean.
(01:31):
Co owner of crown and crumpetstea house in San Francisco and
in a Marin.
Amy, yes.
Why don't you start with tellingus a little bit about yourself?
Oh my God.
Where do I begin?
And my English accent.
English accent.
You can do your us accent.
(01:51):
And, It can even flip and flopas he wished.
So my name is Amy and I was bornand raised in San Francisco,
California.
And always had the ambition tolive my life in England.
I was a great Anglophile at ayoung age, because of my love of
history.
And I didn't know how I wasgoing to wangle it, but I
managed it.
(02:12):
And I lived there for 24 years.
Would you say you left yourAmerican side and completely
immersed yourself in the wholelife of being an English woman.
Yes.
Yes.
One tries, but the English arenot very good about letting you
do that fully.
(02:32):
So it was a bit challenging.
The English never liked to letyou forget where you are from
and all you are.
Really.
Is that what you experienced?
Oh my God.
Yes.
In what.
Tell us about that.
Tell.
D just, they immediately hearyour accent and they go, oh,
you're a yank.
What you do in either then?
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah they're completelyfascinated by Americans and this
(02:56):
is keep in mind this is a longtime ago.
I lived there from 1983, until2000, about 2000.
So 20 some odd years, 2000 tothree.
And now it's changed even again.
Now that I've been back here for20 years.
But.
They are always fascinated byAmericans.
In a good way.
(03:17):
Usually in a good way, butsometimes there's always the
little jab, and you Americans,you yanks.
I'm like what the heck is, whatwould the yank bit.
But they always like to lit.
Turn the screw a little bit.
They don't, oh, I loveAmericans.
Oh my God.
I love America.
It's always, I love Florida.
Oh, the sunny bits.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
And but the sort of the mix,little micro aggressions and I
(03:40):
would just go along with it orsmile and go, what.
Okay.
So what made you stay though?
Was it hard for you to livethrough that and experience
that?
And wasn't that difficult?
Because of my sense of humor andme, just like what as the half
of it went over my head anyway.
Oh a long time to learn.
Just as well.
It took a while to learn all thenuances I went to university
(04:01):
there and that, that was a realeye opener.
Where did.
Did you go to uni?
I was at Oxford.
Oh.
What did you study it?
One is it officer?
Ops with one reads.
Educate your home and little me.
What did you read at Oxford?
I read history at modelingcollege.
(04:23):
And there's about 38 colleges atthe university.
And it's a whole tutorialsystem.
It's a much different way ofeducating one at the university
level and it worked well for mebecause I have dyslexia.
And you you write a lot ofpapers.
Yeah, read a lot at the Bodleianlibrary.
(04:44):
It was so much fun.
I was completely immersed and itwas way of course, before Harry
Potter, I can't even say it howare you Potter?
But it was very much like that.
Sitting at high table.
It college for dinners and itwas really fun, but I was living
in a bubble and a lot of peoplego to Oxford and Cambridge never
want to leave because it'scomplete bubble life.
(05:06):
At some point you've got to go.
And then she going to be anacademic and I wasn't clever
enough to be one.
And I did try to do a seconddegree.
And my tutor said, absolutelynot.
You haven't got the personalityfor it.
You need to go out and live yourlife because you've got too much
personality.
You had too much personality forOxford?
Yes.
You They couldn't contain you?
No.
He said you absolutely need you.
(05:28):
Live a life.
He cannot be locked away in alibrary and the Ashmolean
researching some skill painterthat no one cares about.
And you said, oh, yes.
Thank you very much.
I agree with you and off youwent.
oh, no, you didn't.
Oh, I was devastated.
I thought you knew, and this issomething you learn, you should
learn as a young person.
(05:49):
Is that, this was what I thoughtmy dream was.
This is what I wanted to do.
I worked really hard.
And then they said, no, youcan't do it.
And with hindsight, of course,one realizes he's absolutely
right.
There's no way that I was cutout for it.
But it would have been reallyhard and had items already hard.
But, he said, you've got to goout and live a life and do
(06:09):
something way more interestingthan like you said, researching
obscure French 18th centuryartists.
So once he left Oxford, We willget onto the whole coming back
to America and what thattransition was like a little bit
later.
I'm just intrigued by anAmerican girl in London, having
studied at Oxford, what was yourlife like that once you left?
(06:31):
How did you Swan around?
I think growing up in SanFrancisco, my father worked for
a British bank.
And he would bring me backmagazines, like Harpers And
Queen and Tatler and teenagemagazines.
And you learn a lot frommagazines, unfortunately,
they're not around like theyused to be, but yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
I learned everything I knewabout the English culture from
(06:53):
reading lots of differentwomen's magazines and teenage
magazines.
Even in my twenties, I read fab2 0 8 and take weightness in
America.
Some of the English teenagemagazines.
I can't remember anymore.
Anyway.
So I picked the world.
I wanted to go towards.
And what world was that?
(07:14):
The upper middle class.
And it's yes, of course.
Yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
Yes.
And because of being at Oxfordknowing lots of kids who went to
boarding schools, publicschools.
It was definitely the uppermiddle classes.
How did you graft yourself in?
If that's what you did.
No.
Yeah.
Yes, I just play, Okay.
(07:34):
I knew a girl who was in similarsituation.
She was an American.
She didn't go to universitythere, but her ambition was to
live in England and really fitright into the British upper
classes.
And her name.
Where is she now?
She was a friend of my cousinwho was American and she was
Californian.
And she had this complete,really good English accent,
(07:55):
almost as good as mine.
And I was like, wait, What, whoare you?
You're American.
The kind of questions peoplewould ask me, but she faked it
completely and never came out ofit.
I Did it as like theatrical andbeing funny and cheeky.
Cause I use my sense of humor tonavigate the world.
And this girl was totallyserious and completely obsessed
(08:17):
with being English and beingaccepted by the people she chose
to hang out with, which wasdefinitely upper middle classes.
And she was very impressivebecause she didn't go to school
there, she didn't go touniversity.
Somewhere in her psyche had thedream that I need to be here.
Like she had to be in Englandand she fit right in.
But at the end of the day, Idon't think she was that happy
(08:39):
because she wasn't really beingtrue to herself.
But I don't know, we lost trackof her, but I just couldn't
believe how I was go.
How can you keep talking?
She inspired you to do the same.
Oh, my God.
She put a full picture ofherself in front of me that made
me realize that that's not beingtrue to yourself.
So my whole English accent andmy whole like, Oh, I know about
(09:02):
the British culture.
I know how to fit in and say,doing right things.
What was just from ananthropology.
Information and experiment forme.
I never tried to fake it somuch.
Occasionally I'd do it forentertainment, like fake it, to
pretend it, gosh.
People would say you have thebest American accent.
I'm like, oh, Because you'reAmerican, yeah, but when I met
(09:25):
you, I really thought you wereEnglish.
No, I'm sorry.
No, don't be sorry.
No.
Totally.
No, we were going to be friends,but that's okay because that's
so cool because the funny thingis that I feel as though you you
throw yourself in.
Oh, totally.
Yes.
Yes.
In order to live there in orderto be accepted, right?
(09:47):
And immerse yourself.
In order to have real friendsand just be comfortable and
happy.
It's difficult to have one footin and the other foot in some
other country.
Yeah, yes.
Yes.
And it was survival mode in away, but in such a superficial
way, because it, wasn't verydifficult.
(10:09):
It wasn't like, I was ooohh Ihave to to survive here.
It was my choice.
Yes.
But it just was interestingseeing this one gal who was, we
were on the same track trying tomake our lives in the UK and
wanting to be accepted.
And we both immersed ourselvesin it, but I took it less
seriously.
And I don't know if it's becauseI felt more secure in who I was
(10:29):
I don't know, but this poor girljust, she had a rough time.
No.
People totally just assumed shewas English, she thought that
she would have this type oflife.
The movie?
Romcom!.
Yes.
And I don't know if she's stillliving this life and she's
living this lie.
It's not really it's herreality, I just look at her and
go, what.
(10:49):
Why would you do that?
Were you successful in adaptingto that life over there and what
you accepted by the people youchose to build a tribe among.
Yes.
I feel like I was very much butalways oh, that's my American
(11:12):
friend that I haven't heard alot.
Oh, Amy's American.
Oh yeah.
She's a little crazy.
Or, she says what's on her mind,which is not very English.
Yeah, I never thought I'd everleave.
Because I was so comfortablethere.
And so what caused you to leaveyour adopted home?
England.
You really want to know that Ido want to know.
Oh, my God.
Chris and I lived on a fallenroad.
(11:33):
And London in 19.
99 in the late nineties, really,is just what it is today is not,
it's so different and morevibrant, more interesting and
more dynamic back then it wasgetting a little stale.
And the last thing that happenedwas Chris was walking the dogs
at 11 o'clock at night.
We lived near the Chelseafootball ground and the Chelsea
game was going on, and peoplewere leaving and oh boy, and the
(11:56):
drinking, the amount of alcoholcrazy.
Yeah.
Anyway, Chris was trying tocross the street, but the
results traffic and there was adude.
In our doorway with his trousersdown and relieving himself,
shall we say.
No.
Which people do alternate,either getting sick or peeing on
the street.
The whole football.
(12:16):
Drunk.
The partying, lose your mind,talking about the women.
Walking around deep.
We show it to him.
But I actually miss seeing thosecrazy.
It's about being back at home.
Yeah.
It's funny.
Now we it's amusing, but thisguy was doing that in.
Chris's all you like trying toget his attention.
(12:38):
And he turned around and flippedChris off and just zip draws us
off and went up the road.
And Chris came in the front doorand yelled up to him.
He goes, that's it.
We're leaving this damn countryand within three or four months,
we were gone.
And you came back here.
And we came to San Francisco.
So what was San Francisco likewhen you came back?
Because you had left SanFrancisco at age, what?
(13:00):
18, 18.
And you had now come backmarried.
Yes.
Yes.
And you're in your, late throughearly, like 40, so I missed
about 24 years of Americanculture.
I came back for the holidays andstuff.
Yeah.
People always talk about some ofthese TV shows.
I'm like, yeah.
I don't know it, Seinfeld, Ionly caught on to like in 2000,
(13:23):
but so it was a new beginningreading.
When he came back, you had toreestablish your friendships.
Yes.
And start complete new onesbecause the people I'd left in
San Francisco were high schoolfriends and they had obviously
moved on, moved away.
How did you go aboutreestablishing yourself?
As an American girl who hadmoved away from America,
(13:44):
immersed herself in all thingsBritish.
I loved it.
Flourished in it.
What was that like?
So our ambition to come backhere was to be antique dealers.
Chris was an antique dealer.
I worked in the film businesses.
Prop buyer's set dress.
I've worked for Ralph Lauren asa display director.
So my background afteruniversity was visual
(14:05):
merchandise.
Yeah.
Yeah, kinda and Chris was anantique dealer and knew 18th and
19th century ceramics furniture,glassware, everything.
Oh, beautiful.
Yeah, really great.
And San Francisco had a vibrantantique community.
And so we imported a ton ofthings from France and England,
and our ambition was to open aretail store, antique shop,
(14:26):
which we did within a year ortwo, I think.
And it was called La Place duSolei.
yes.
Because I had some.
Yes, exactly.
Cause I had my godmother who'sAmerican had a famous shop in
San Francisco in the seventiescalled La Ville Du Soleil.
Okay.
And it was such off the chartsand incredible retail
(14:46):
experience.
And she was a real pioneer inthis kind of concept and that's
a whole nother compensationanyway.
So we opened this little shop inRussian hill on Polk street.
And the community in Russianhill really became our new
community.
And we made a lot of friends inthat neighborhood.
We were there for eight years,but we didn't have a child.
(15:07):
You have a kid, you send them toschool and you meet the parents
and you're like, okay, there'syour new group of friends?
So this was local neighborhoodpeople.
A few of my old high schoolfriends, maybe, not many.
So just starting over.
As a business owner.
So you, would you say youconnected with other business
owners?
No.
The people come and spend moneywith us.
(15:30):
Those are the people youconnected with?
Yeah coming into your shop?.
What you just chatted them up.
Yeah.
And you're going to be my newfriend sorta kinda, I didn't
have to tell them.
That's.
A little bit to frank but in aroundabout way.
We established relationshipswith people because when you're
selling antiques, You got toreally schmooze him and tell him
(15:51):
why they need to buy instead ofso it's the gift of the gab.
It's the salesmen in us.
Chris and I are both really goodsalespeople.
I'm a little more forceful.
Chris is more with his Englishaccent.
He could tell him.
In fact, when I met Chris I Iremember at an antique show that
in London because they workedfor Ralph Lauren.
I used to buy a lot of stuff forRalph Lauren.
(16:13):
And I remember going his.
His ex-wife, who's a lovely ladyand a great friend.
She used to, I used to buythings from her, but one time
she wasn't there that weekend.
And so I was like, who's thatdude?
And the, as soon as you starttalking, they're going to make
you buy something.
Your F they don't make it, but Iremember picking something up
and going.
That's interesting.
And then he takes it from.
And he said, oh, this is neat incentury.
(16:34):
Wallet or something and it is.
Looking at this lovely thing.
And I was like, So much timetalking about the damn wallet, I
felt obligated to purchase it.
And then.
And I bought it.
And then about six years later,he comes over to my flat and
there it is.
And this is a little vignette Ihad.
Little antiquey things and hepicks it up and he goes, you
(16:56):
bought this for me, not withthat accent.
Of course.
You pulled that from me.
And I was like, oh my God, Idid.
That was you.
I remember I felt like I had tobuy it from you.
And I was like, oh my God.
Yeah, I still have it.
Where the hell is that thing?
Anyway, but he was a goodsalesman.
So of course we are, we wouldsit down with people, have a cup
(17:17):
of tea.
We chat about the 18th century,heavily legs on a piece of
furniture.
And then they'd say, oh, I'mgoing to have that mind living
because antique furniture is themost sustainable way.
So here's my next question.
I know.
I go off on a diatribe.
Sorry.
I love going up the garden part.
But the back of the house anddown again, Yeah, cause it's
fun.
(17:38):
It's enjoyable.
Please don't stop doing that.
As long as I'm not boring.
Definitely not boring anyone.
Okay.
So here's the question.
Yeah.
Where is home?
For you.
In my heart now I'm teasing.
What you mean?
Yeah, it's a little crap, man.
Where's my home physically.
Yeah.
Oh, yes.
(17:58):
What was your sense of home?
Where do you feel you belong?
That's a really good questionand it's rather difficult, but
now I've been here for 20 years.
Oh my God.
Stop.
With the English accent.
Okay.
Yeah.
You can't help yourself becauseI feel like it's in your genes,
you are supposed to be English,Amy.
Leave it alone.
And that's why you have this teashop we'll talk about tin pump
(18:21):
at your tea shop and just themovement.
So carry on.
Tell me about your sense of homeand where you feel you belong.
Oh, my God.
That's like really deep.
I don't know if I can come upwith an answer.
Yeah.
San Francisco, I have such anaffinity, like when you're from
San Francisco, you can't belike, you're so spoiled San
Francisco is different now, but.
(18:42):
And it's such a small town andwe, our family has been here a
long time but then being awayfrom it for so long.
Everything's new again.
But now I'm a little bit morenow we live in Marine county,
which is a whole nother world,but do I feel super English.
It's I've been away for so longfrom England and we go back to
one time, two times a year.
(19:03):
We used to do even more.
And so I would get my fix and mykick, but I don't know.
I guess I'm American.
But that's just.
We'll be offended all youAmericans.
It's not that bad.
I knew, but now once you've seenlife on the other side, I tell
(19:24):
you we need to take a littlebreak yes, let's just take a
little break and have some teaand scones we are going to be
back with Amy for part two butbefore we go, here are the three
concepts that I want you to takeaway.
The first is you can adapt tothe new life in your new country
(19:45):
without absolutely erasingyourself.
Adapting is necessary, but selferasure is not.
Second takeaway is thatrebuilding a life abroad starts
with knowing who you are, notwho you are expected to become
and that leads to my lasttakeaway, which is that we need
(20:08):
to understand the culture thatwe now live in when we move to
the USA, to understand the vibesof the local people.
The community we want to becomea part of, but we also need to
be ourselves.
You don't have to becomesomebody else in order to fit
in.
And I know we have heard that somany times before.
(20:31):
But the fact of the matter isthat when we moved to the US and
encountered new communities,their own ways of working, of
interacting and I had a choice.
I can imitate or be authenticand see what happens.
I honestly do not buy the ideathat we need to imitate.
(20:52):
I think we definitely need toacculturate.
But we certainly don't have toshrink back or to hide or or
forever perform in order tobelong, order to be seen.
Because I'm now sensing that Ihave learned over the years that
fulfillment and contentment andself-worth is anchored in our
(21:18):
ability to be comfortable withwho we are at this point of our
lives.
That's it from me today.
Circle back for part two formore perspectives on
acculturation and some realtalks and laughs with my guest
Amy De Dean.
In the meantime, download andlisten to episode four.
(21:39):
Why Trying to Fit In is a trapfor immigrant women and discover
what you can do instead.
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