June 12, 2025 • 15 mins
David tracks the messy evolution of his act, from joking about kratom and morphine drips to nearly launching a debate show on illicit substances. Along the way he revisits a live “Armchair Expert” set that almost tempted Dax Shepard off the wagon, questions why certain highs are illegal, and brainstorms a future lineup that jumps from psychedelics to tennis and gambling.
Book mentioned: Drug Use for Grownups by Dr. Carl L. Hart
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David (00:00):
Welcome to Starting Stand-Up.
My name is David Walton.
This is a podcast about myjourney to become a stand-up
comedian, but it's a mess.
The whole thing is a mess andthat's okay.
It's okay to be a mess, it'sokay to screw up in public, and
I'm learning that.
And I'm feeling way more, waybetter about just being a
(00:24):
mediocre podcaster Because, atthe end of the day, I am
increasingly feeling connectedto you, the listener.
I'm feeling increasingly readyto just bare my soul to you, you
complete stranger.
No, I just don't care anymoreAbout most things, and it's a
(00:50):
little scary, but it's alsoreally fun and freeing.
And so today's episode is goingto be about something I love so
dearly.
It's a huge, huge part of mylife.
It makes me happy, I find itfascinating, and that's just
illegal drugs.
It's something that I've triedto make funny.
(01:13):
It's widely considered a hacksubject, a very difficult
subject to make funny on stage,but I don't care.
And so let's go Ready, let'sstart some stand-up.
I'll tell you a quick story.
(01:51):
The first podcast all theequipment I'm recording this
podcast on was gifted to me, notgifted was bought by Wobby Wob.
Wobby Wob excuse me is theproducer of a podcast called
Armchair Expert hosted by DaxShepard Maybe four years ago.
Dax, who directed me in a showI was on, called About a Boy, we
(02:14):
became fast friends.
I love him.
He's obviously extremely funny,talented and successful man and
he's sober, and he was alwaysfascinated with me because I was
undeniably not sober butseemingly able to handle
everything that he wasn't ableto handle, and so we both would
(02:36):
spend the majority of our freetime just talking about all the
insane stuff he'd done with hislife, all the trouble he'd
gotten into.
I would tell some stories thatwere less hardcore, but clearly
we both had twinkles in our eyesfor stories of basically doing
(02:59):
things that aren't good for youbut are still worth it.
And at one point I went on hispodcast and I don't remember
exactly what I said.
It was a live show in Santa Fe,exactly what I said.
It was a live show in Santa Feand I started talking about
drugs and I started talkingabout how they were
misunderstood or that everyone'skind of just foolish about them
(03:22):
, that we categorize them allinto this one big evil thing
like don't do drugs, just say no.
But ultimately there areobviously substances that have
improved lives, and I think mythesis in general was that drugs
are good.
His response was that he hadnever been more tempted to go
(03:45):
off the wagon than after I saidthose things.
And so a conversation startedabout doing a show about drugs.
It morphed into somethingcalled the Drug Store.
I made a couple pilots, butbasically the premise was that I
was pro-drugs, my wife wasanti-drug, and we would debate
(04:10):
and bring drug people on to kindof discuss who was right you
know, to remove myths and eachepisode would be about a
specific drug.
Um, I worked hard on this.
We did a lot of versions andultimately it was a massive lift
(04:31):
because it was like it was justa lie because my wife loves
drugs no, that's not true, butit was just like we were forcing
something.
That's not true at all, for therecord.
But she's very open-minded.
She never was upset with myenjoyment and experimentation,
and so we were kind of lyingabout it just to like satisfy
(04:55):
this premise of a podcast pilot.
I bring this up because Ireally enjoy talking about drugs
.
My friends who know me wouldprobably be annoyed.
My family would be annoyed atI'm kind of a know-it-all.
Because of this podcast I didso much research about every
single drug and not onlychemical makeup, but how to do
(05:20):
it properly.
You know how to do it like anadult, how to do it safely, how
to do it responsibly.
And it was weird becausebasically I was like all right,
I'm doing research for thispodcast, let me see what Kratom
is about.
Kratom K-R-A-T-O-M if youhaven't heard of it, is a plant
(05:40):
that grows in Southeast Asia andit has a really very pleasant
effect.
It's sort of quasi-legal.
You can order it from Idahoright now.
I'll put a link in the bio.
No, I'm just kidding.
I'm not going to start pushingKratom, but it's one of these
(06:09):
things that you know ismisunderstood.
It's not truly mainstream, sosome of you might know what it
is, but you mix it into a glassof water and you chug.
It will have anywhere from akind of amphetamine kind of
upper feeling, or the one that'sreally amazing is this sort of
combo where you feel, let's say,you feel like you've had a
(06:31):
painkiller and an upper likemaybe a little bit of cocaine,
so you're so, you're kind of inthis pocket where you're relaxed
, but you're alert and you feelthe warm and fuzzy, almost like
an opiate.
I've never done heroin, butI've certainly had a morphine
(06:51):
drip.
After surgery, I had a fentanyldrip and it was glorious.
I mean, I completely understandwhy people love it.
Everyone is so sort of getstheir skirt in a bunch about
heroin, of course, but if you'veever pressed the button for a
morphine drip in a hospital,you've had heroin.
(07:13):
You've had that same effect.
So everyone can just relax.
Anyway.
The point I'm trying to make ismy stand-up routines are
generally wanting or gravitate.
There's a there's agravitational pull to drugs, sex
, alcohol, and when I startedout I was doing that stuff and
(07:37):
it was kind of I would listenback and it was lame.
And now, six months later, I'mkind of like, well, how do I
enjoy this?
I mean, why am I trying towrite things that I don't enjoy
talking about?
So this is all to say thatthere's going to be a lot more
drug talk on this show, becausethat's what I like to do.
(08:03):
Oh yeah, I'm just kidding, I'mnot doing cocaine right now, but
I'm not doing any drugs rightnow.
I'm not doing anything rightnow.
(08:33):
I had one idea for this podcastwho knows what will happen, but
maybe we can do a hybrid but itwas this idea that I would do an
interview on a drug, an illegaldrug.
But I would have done it veryproperly and I would conduct an
(08:55):
interview on this drug.
Now, when I say a drug, I'mtalking about like, okay, I'm
going to do an interview on LSD,I'm going to do an interview on
mushrooms, I'm going to do aninterview on cocaine, I'm going
to do an interview on kratom,I'm going to do an interview on
marijuana the big boys, right.
And at the end the thing wasyou had to guess what I was on
(09:19):
and I would tell you in the big,like you know, reveal would be
this was the dosage.
This is how I did it.
Now, the problem with this ideais you wonder if your door is
going to get knocked down by thefbi or the dea.
I rather you wonder the rippleeffect on my children.
You wonder if your door isgoing to get knocked down by the
FBI or the DEA.
I'd rather you wonder theripple effect on my children.
I don't know how manysleepovers we'd be having after
(09:44):
that.
And yeah, like, why would Iwant to put that out there in
the world?
And I'll give you a little bitof a taste of why.
I just think people are idiots.
I don't think people knowwhat's really going on with
these things.
I just not idiots.
(10:06):
I think people are ignorant.
There's just so much ignoranceabout it, and I don't think
drugs should be illegal forlegalization of everything I
don't know.
I've never heard a goodargument for why we allow
cartels to dominate aninsatiable need to get fucked up
(10:30):
.
Now it's a tricky one to getyour head around right.
How on earth are we gonna makecocaine legal?
Can you imagine driving up tonorthern Maine and next to every
cannabis shop is just a blowshop.
I think it would have to bevery different than cannabis.
(10:51):
You know, I now that I thinkabout it.
I don't think you can makecocaine legal.
But if there's still a blackmarket trade for cannabis and
you basically have 17 cannabislegal stores around you and
there's still black marketcannabis use, I mean, of course
cocaine is going to have blackmarket.
I would read Carl Hart's book Ifyou're curious about what I'm
(11:13):
talking about.
I would buy on Kindle or in theflesh Drug Use for Grownups by
Carl Hart, who is the head ofneuropsychopharmacology at
Columbia.
He is a tenured professor at anIvy League school and is very
(11:35):
open with the fact that on apleasant Saturday night he and
his wife will line up a littlerail of heroin to enjoy together
.
It's a fascinating book.
Epidemic and all the kind ofoblique and very obvious racism
(11:57):
and other forces that haveshaped your your perception of
drugs and the evils of them.
I encourage everyone to readDrug Use for Grownups by Carl
Hart.
It's fascinating.
You know, as we build thispodcast into whatever the fuck
(12:17):
we're going to build it into,you know there's a there's a
part of me that really wants toexpand into other areas of
interest, not just stand up.
You know you could take lop off, stand up and just call
starting and everything is justabout starting a new interest or
starting a new little quest.
(12:37):
And this podcast, which Ireally do enjoy, can become
something else and I'll losepeople and gain people.
Maybe the podcast becomes apodcast about drug use, tennis,
backgammon, sex, spiritualityand AI and friendship and golf,
(13:06):
with a little bit of skiing andventure capital and working out
and relationships and personaldevelopment and marriage and
child rearing and death andmindfulness and gambling.
I think that's a great pitchfor a podcast.
(13:27):
Let me know what you think inthe comments.
I love you.
Let me know what you think inthe comments.
I love you.
Well, aren't you a sweetheartfor making it to the end?
If you know another sweetheartwho would enjoy this, go ahead
and text it to them.
You can also support the show byjust subscribing or downloading
or even leaving a comment.
(13:48):
If you feel tremendouslygenerous, you can also just text
this to your friend who's a DEAagent.
They might be curious about whoI am and where I live.
And anyway, in the meantime, Ireally do.
I genuinely hope you have anincredible day, the rest of your
day and such a fun week.
(14:10):
And it's summertime and it'sall about having fun and having
so much connection and pickingup a just a 30 rack of dcl's
delicious coors lights andconsuming them when you wake up
on many, many summer weekends,just to take a little bit of the
(14:31):
edge off of the night before.
This is not medical advice, butI do think that it's very
underrated to have a light,light lager at breakfast,
wishing you so much love, somuch peace, so much adventure
and fun and connection, and I'llsee you next week.
(14:53):
Bye for now.
Welcome to Starting Stand-Up.
My name is David Walton.
This is a podcast about myjourney to become a stand-up
comedian, but it's a mess.
The whole thing is a mess andthat's okay.
It's okay to be a mess, it'sokay to screw up in public, and
I'm learning that.
And I'm feeling way more, waybetter about just being a
(00:24):
mediocre podcaster Because, atthe end of the day, I am
increasingly feeling connectedto you, the listener.
I'm feeling increasingly readyto just bare my soul to you, you
complete stranger.
No, I just don't care anymoreAbout most things, and it's a
(00:50):
little scary, but it's alsoreally fun and freeing.
And so today's episode is goingto be about something I love so
dearly.
It's a huge, huge part of mylife.
It makes me happy, I find itfascinating, and that's just
illegal drugs.
It's something that I've triedto make funny.
(01:13):
It's widely considered a hacksubject, a very difficult
subject to make funny on stage,but I don't care.
And so let's go Ready, let'sstart some stand-up.
I'll tell you a quick story.
(01:51):
The first podcast all theequipment I'm recording this
podcast on was gifted to me, notgifted was bought by Wobby Wob.
Wobby Wob excuse me is theproducer of a podcast called
Armchair Expert hosted by DaxShepard Maybe four years ago.
Dax, who directed me in a showI was on, called About a Boy, we
(02:14):
became fast friends.
I love him.
He's obviously extremely funny,talented and successful man and
he's sober, and he was alwaysfascinated with me because I was
undeniably not sober butseemingly able to handle
everything that he wasn't ableto handle, and so we both would
(02:36):
spend the majority of our freetime just talking about all the
insane stuff he'd done with hislife, all the trouble he'd
gotten into.
I would tell some stories thatwere less hardcore, but clearly
we both had twinkles in our eyesfor stories of basically doing
(02:59):
things that aren't good for youbut are still worth it.
And at one point I went on hispodcast and I don't remember
exactly what I said.
It was a live show in Santa Fe,exactly what I said.
It was a live show in Santa Feand I started talking about
drugs and I started talkingabout how they were
misunderstood or that everyone'skind of just foolish about them
(03:22):
, that we categorize them allinto this one big evil thing
like don't do drugs, just say no.
But ultimately there areobviously substances that have
improved lives, and I think mythesis in general was that drugs
are good.
His response was that he hadnever been more tempted to go
(03:45):
off the wagon than after I saidthose things.
And so a conversation startedabout doing a show about drugs.
It morphed into somethingcalled the Drug Store.
I made a couple pilots, butbasically the premise was that I
was pro-drugs, my wife wasanti-drug, and we would debate
(04:10):
and bring drug people on to kindof discuss who was right you
know, to remove myths and eachepisode would be about a
specific drug.
Um, I worked hard on this.
We did a lot of versions andultimately it was a massive lift
(04:31):
because it was like it was justa lie because my wife loves
drugs no, that's not true, butit was just like we were forcing
something.
That's not true at all, for therecord.
But she's very open-minded.
She never was upset with myenjoyment and experimentation,
and so we were kind of lyingabout it just to like satisfy
(04:55):
this premise of a podcast pilot.
I bring this up because Ireally enjoy talking about drugs
.
My friends who know me wouldprobably be annoyed.
My family would be annoyed atI'm kind of a know-it-all.
Because of this podcast I didso much research about every
single drug and not onlychemical makeup, but how to do
(05:20):
it properly.
You know how to do it like anadult, how to do it safely, how
to do it responsibly.
And it was weird becausebasically I was like all right,
I'm doing research for thispodcast, let me see what Kratom
is about.
Kratom K-R-A-T-O-M if youhaven't heard of it, is a plant
(05:40):
that grows in Southeast Asia andit has a really very pleasant
effect.
It's sort of quasi-legal.
You can order it from Idahoright now.
I'll put a link in the bio.
No, I'm just kidding.
I'm not going to start pushingKratom, but it's one of these
(06:09):
things that you know ismisunderstood.
It's not truly mainstream, sosome of you might know what it
is, but you mix it into a glassof water and you chug.
It will have anywhere from akind of amphetamine kind of
upper feeling, or the one that'sreally amazing is this sort of
combo where you feel, let's say,you feel like you've had a
(06:31):
painkiller and an upper likemaybe a little bit of cocaine,
so you're so, you're kind of inthis pocket where you're relaxed
, but you're alert and you feelthe warm and fuzzy, almost like
an opiate.
I've never done heroin, butI've certainly had a morphine
(06:51):
drip.
After surgery, I had a fentanyldrip and it was glorious.
I mean, I completely understandwhy people love it.
Everyone is so sort of getstheir skirt in a bunch about
heroin, of course, but if you'veever pressed the button for a
morphine drip in a hospital,you've had heroin.
(07:13):
You've had that same effect.
So everyone can just relax.
Anyway.
The point I'm trying to make ismy stand-up routines are
generally wanting or gravitate.
There's a there's agravitational pull to drugs, sex
, alcohol, and when I startedout I was doing that stuff and
(07:37):
it was kind of I would listenback and it was lame.
And now, six months later, I'mkind of like, well, how do I
enjoy this?
I mean, why am I trying towrite things that I don't enjoy
talking about?
So this is all to say thatthere's going to be a lot more
drug talk on this show, becausethat's what I like to do.
(08:03):
Oh yeah, I'm just kidding, I'mnot doing cocaine right now, but
I'm not doing any drugs rightnow.
I'm not doing anything rightnow.
(08:33):
I had one idea for this podcastwho knows what will happen, but
maybe we can do a hybrid but itwas this idea that I would do an
interview on a drug, an illegaldrug.
But I would have done it veryproperly and I would conduct an
(08:55):
interview on this drug.
Now, when I say a drug, I'mtalking about like, okay, I'm
going to do an interview on LSD,I'm going to do an interview on
mushrooms, I'm going to do aninterview on cocaine, I'm going
to do an interview on kratom,I'm going to do an interview on
marijuana the big boys, right.
And at the end the thing wasyou had to guess what I was on
(09:19):
and I would tell you in the big,like you know, reveal would be
this was the dosage.
This is how I did it.
Now, the problem with this ideais you wonder if your door is
going to get knocked down by thefbi or the dea.
I rather you wonder the rippleeffect on my children.
You wonder if your door isgoing to get knocked down by the
FBI or the DEA.
I'd rather you wonder theripple effect on my children.
I don't know how manysleepovers we'd be having after
(09:44):
that.
And yeah, like, why would Iwant to put that out there in
the world?
And I'll give you a little bitof a taste of why.
I just think people are idiots.
I don't think people knowwhat's really going on with
these things.
I just not idiots.
(10:06):
I think people are ignorant.
There's just so much ignoranceabout it, and I don't think
drugs should be illegal forlegalization of everything I
don't know.
I've never heard a goodargument for why we allow
cartels to dominate aninsatiable need to get fucked up
(10:30):
.
Now it's a tricky one to getyour head around right.
How on earth are we gonna makecocaine legal?
Can you imagine driving up tonorthern Maine and next to every
cannabis shop is just a blowshop.
I think it would have to bevery different than cannabis.
(10:51):
You know, I now that I thinkabout it.
I don't think you can makecocaine legal.
But if there's still a blackmarket trade for cannabis and
you basically have 17 cannabislegal stores around you and
there's still black marketcannabis use, I mean, of course
cocaine is going to have blackmarket.
I would read Carl Hart's book Ifyou're curious about what I'm
(11:13):
talking about.
I would buy on Kindle or in theflesh Drug Use for Grownups by
Carl Hart, who is the head ofneuropsychopharmacology at
Columbia.
He is a tenured professor at anIvy League school and is very
(11:35):
open with the fact that on apleasant Saturday night he and
his wife will line up a littlerail of heroin to enjoy together
.
It's a fascinating book.
Epidemic and all the kind ofoblique and very obvious racism
(11:57):
and other forces that haveshaped your your perception of
drugs and the evils of them.
I encourage everyone to readDrug Use for Grownups by Carl
Hart.
It's fascinating.
You know, as we build thispodcast into whatever the fuck
(12:17):
we're going to build it into,you know there's a there's a
part of me that really wants toexpand into other areas of
interest, not just stand up.
You know you could take lop off, stand up and just call
starting and everything is justabout starting a new interest or
starting a new little quest.
(12:37):
And this podcast, which Ireally do enjoy, can become
something else and I'll losepeople and gain people.
Maybe the podcast becomes apodcast about drug use, tennis,
backgammon, sex, spiritualityand AI and friendship and golf,
(13:06):
with a little bit of skiing andventure capital and working out
and relationships and personaldevelopment and marriage and
child rearing and death andmindfulness and gambling.
I think that's a great pitchfor a podcast.
(13:27):
Let me know what you think inthe comments.
I love you.
Let me know what you think inthe comments.
I love you.
Well, aren't you a sweetheartfor making it to the end?
If you know another sweetheartwho would enjoy this, go ahead
and text it to them.
You can also support the show byjust subscribing or downloading
or even leaving a comment.
(13:48):
If you feel tremendouslygenerous, you can also just text
this to your friend who's a DEAagent.
They might be curious about whoI am and where I live.
And anyway, in the meantime, Ireally do.
I genuinely hope you have anincredible day, the rest of your
day and such a fun week.
(14:10):
And it's summertime and it'sall about having fun and having
so much connection and pickingup a just a 30 rack of dcl's
delicious coors lights andconsuming them when you wake up
on many, many summer weekends,just to take a little bit of the
(14:31):
edge off of the night before.
This is not medical advice, butI do think that it's very
underrated to have a light,light lager at breakfast,
wishing you so much love, somuch peace, so much adventure
and fun and connection, and I'llsee you next week.
(14:53):
Bye for now.
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