Revisit an Episode: Dive Bars: Where Community, Nostalgia, and Inclusivity Collide

Dive bars - they’re more than just a spot for cheap drinks. They’re community hubs, cultural icons, and spaces brimming with stories. In this episode of States of Discovery, Marisa and Sara dive into the charm, history, and evolving culture of dive bars. From their roots as literal underground hangouts to their role as inclusive, welcoming spaces, we explore why these beloved establishments hold a special place in our hearts.

Episode Highlights:

• The Dive Bar Vibe: Discover the history of the term “dive bar” and how these establishments evolved from disreputable dives to cherished community spaces. Learn why dive bars resonate as places of authenticity, camaraderie, and connection.
• Evolving with the Times: Dive bars have always been inclusive, but they’re adapting even more to modern times. We discuss the rise of mixology in these unpolished gems and the growing popularity of non-alcoholic options like those we discovered at The Agency in Milwaukee.
• Stories That Define Them: Behind every dive bar is a tapestry of tales—from the owners who pour their passion into these spaces to the regulars who make them feel at home.
• Looking Ahead: With changing neighborhoods and rising costs, we examine the future of dive bars and how they’re finding ways to stay relevant for new generations.

Special Features:

• Clips from dive bar enthusiasts and owners sharing their unforgettable experiences.
• Personal favorites from Marisa and Sara, including dive bars from their travels.
• Industry insights into the non-alcoholic beverage trend, a growing force in the bar world.

Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review States of Discovery on your favorite podcast platform. We love hearing from our listeners, so share your own fair memories and suggestions for future episodes with us!

Connect With Us:

• Phone Number: 805-298-1420 - Leave us a message! We’d love to hear from you.
• Email: [e-mail]

Thanks for listening to States of Discovery. Until next time, cheers! 🍻

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
I don't know, it's like grungy and like the best way possible
and like very wholesome because it's people from everywhere that
are I dive bars, you know, like just any type of person from any
walk of life pops in, can get a beer or a drink that they can
afford, have a good conversation, play a game, just
like live and let live, you know.

(00:35):
Welcome back everyone to States of Discovery, a podcast where
education and curiosity about the world collide.
I'm here with my Co host, Sarah.Hi, Sarah.
Hey, Marissa. So let's get right into it.
In this episode, we're talking about something near and dear to
my heart, and it is the fascinating world of dive bars.

(00:58):
In this episode, we are featuring exclusive interviews
with LA based mixologist Victor Feliz, CEO and founder of the
Agency in Milwaukee, the country's first hybrid cocktail
bar, Ryan Castilez, as well as Casey Gerber, bar owner and
founder of the Cloak and Dagger Vegan Cocktail Lounge in

(01:18):
Cleveland. And they might look a little
rough around the edges, and thismight scare some people off, But
honestly, beneath those worn outbooths, the sticky vinyl and
neon signs, these bars are seriously home to some of the
most unique stories, friendships, people, and a
subculture all of their own. Yes, and they are more than just

(01:42):
places where you can get cheap drinks, which contrary to
popular belief, these are actually places of comfort,
camaraderie, and community. Personally for me, dive bars are
some of my favorite places to go.
I always, whenever I travel, I always seek out dive bars first

(02:03):
and I know that you share the same sentiment because to me
there's no better way than connecting with locals than at
the local dive bar. Yeah, I I love dive bars.
There's this authenticity they have that you don't find and
change. You don't find in these like
sports bars and things that likeyou just the focus isn't on the

(02:25):
people and community. And it I, I really do enjoy it
And not going to lie, I feel sometimes intimidated when I go
into a dive bar because there isthat already established
community and I'm just so eager to want to be accepted by them.
I, I love it, But let's get intolike, what exactly makes a dive
bar a dive bar? Because over the years, that

(02:47):
term has changed. And it used to be somewhat
derogatory and definitely had a negative skew, but now it's
almost like a badge of honor. And dive bars are known for that
authenticity I referenced. They're unpolished.
They're mysterious. There is an anything goes vibe
in a cast of regulars, but not in an unsafe way.

(03:09):
It is like their second home. They all know each other.
A bartender might hug a customercoming in there, telling them
about a job interview or a breakup or anything that under
the sun, really. Yeah, it's it's interesting you
say that. And just like how sometimes
walking into a dive bar, I especially one in a new state, I

(03:31):
feel like an interloper that doesn't belong there because
they're greeting every the bartenders are greeting
everybody by name and I'm just like this weird tourist.
But it's so interesting how quickly you become part of that
like dive bar tribe that, you know, I to me, that's what makes
it stand out is like you immediately are welcomed into

(03:53):
this family of, you know, cheap drinks and and yeah, sticky
booths. But we'll get into that.
I did. I did want to talk a little bit
about the term dive bar and how it came to be, which I found
very fascinating because the term itself first appeared in
the New York Herald in July 1871.

(04:16):
And the term dive was used to describe disreputable places,
often located in basements, Cellars.
So it's essentially where patrons would dive into the
establishment because they were so far underground.
Quite literally. Dive right in.
Yeah, yeah. And.

(04:37):
And Speaking of disreputable, even in 18821883 it was
mentioned in Harper's Magazine that these dives were actually
opium smoking dives. And so yeah, it's definitely not
just what we see today. And in 1886 the term came up
again and direct reference to a bar.
So in that 1886 mention, it was specified that a dive bar was

(04:59):
called so because it was in a lower part of the building, very
similar to the diving into the basement.
And yeah, dive bars were, and often still are in basements of
larger buildings and annexes andthese little hobbles and holes
where you can quite literally have to like, navigate your way
down to find them. Which to me is actually part of

(05:19):
why I would want to go seek these out.
And that so that's part of the appeal.
Dive bars are places where regulars become family.
Everyone knows each other's name.
Let's call it the Cheers mentality.
For anybody that has watched Cheers, where you are valued as
a guest for specifically being yourself, that genuine aspect of

(05:45):
being in a place where there areno pretenses.
They don't care what you're drinking, they just want you to
be yourself and have a good timeand exist.
And I think that to me, is one of the most important elements
of why I love dive bars. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, the allure of one someone knowing and remembering

(06:07):
my name is is really high up on the list.
You have that familiarity and that sense of community that is
just really hard to find. Especially look, once you leave
college and you're at a job, finding community can be tough.
Like you have to seek it out. You're not just thrown in with
people that are going to value and remember you and feel that

(06:30):
certain kind of way about you. And so as times change, so do
dive bars. They started out, let's
reference basements. You dive into opium smoking dens
and dives. And then also now these basement
sort of annex style of bars. But these these spaces are

(06:50):
always evolving, but they have always been inclusive.
And I feel like that's an important aspect we have to
remember even today. And as times change, so do dive
bars. And maybe they started as opium
smoking dives and lit quite literally below ground levels
where you had to jump on in. And they evolved to maybe these

(07:12):
bars and basements and annexes. But what's important is that
they have always been inclusive spaces.
And I think that's even more important today.
As they have evolved, so many dive bars have become more
welcoming to all, focusing on inclusivity, whether it's women,
LGBTQIA folks, or even just creating a safe space for people

(07:32):
from all walks of life. Yeah.
And I think just to like Pepper in my own personal story, I know
we're going to talk about this alittle later.
There is a dive bar that I went into in Austin, TX that I went
because I found out that they served vegan southern cuisine.

(07:52):
So vegan ribs, vegan mashed potatoes.
It was like part dive bar, part vegan food truck.
And I went, it was a, a very heavy motorcycle bar with like
heavy metal playing, you know, and I show up just looking for
some vegan ribs. And I was so welcomed in that

(08:14):
bar. Let me tell you, nobody cared
like that. I didn't have a, a motorcycle
club jacket on or nobody looked twice at me.
Everyone was like, Oh yeah, the ribs are so good.
And it's just like, that is, I feel like a consistent
experience that I have when you're talking about
inclusivity, no matter the dive bar.

(08:34):
And I can't blanket statement this across the United States,
but, you know, I do feel like there's this common ground with
dive bars that it's like, hey, yeah, come on in, everyone's
welcome, let's have a drink and,you know, just kind of exist
together. Yeah.
And so no. And I just wanted to comment
really quickly, There's nothing more beautiful than seeing a

(08:57):
biker or metalhead or whoever they are and them just being the
biggest marshmallow that cares about vegan ribs.
That is the most wholesome thingI've ever heard.
Yeah, it was great. It was a really great
experience. And so, yeah, this is what
essentially dive bars are often one of the very few spots where
everyone's welcome and there is a real sense of community there

(09:21):
that is only deepened as more people seek out these spaces in
order to feel included, to feel at home regardless of
background, identity, etcetera. I'm Victoria Felice.
I live in Los Angeles, CA and I've been in the food and
beverage industry for about 10 years.
And I'm just here to share a little bit of my love.

(09:42):
You know, one of those loves happens to be going to a dive
bar. It's a safe space.
It's somewhere where you don't care if you're going to smear
Buffalo sauce all over your face.
If even if you go to like the YeOlde Rustic Inn and Los Feliz or
you know, go for like a 1:00 AM pastrami sandwich at the Kibitz
Room right at Cantors to there in West Hollywood, dive bars in

(10:04):
Los Angeles are like cathedrals,just shelters for many a lots
changed over the last 10 years. You have to make the drinks
cheaper and approachable for a lot of people.
So we've had to get really clever with how to reduce costs,
especially after the pandemic and in this economy.
So we don't want to waste things.

(10:26):
We want to become as sustainableas we can so that we can keep
prices low and draw in more people.
And that's been a big shift since the mid 2000s.
You can now probably get like anold fashioned at a dive bar or
Negroni. Now this one's pretty funny and
people like to debate about this, but it's also is it a dive

(10:50):
bar If you guys serve really good wine, A lot of dive bars
have been implementing a naturalwine program that's been up for
debate and I love to see it. I love to see the forever
evolving part of the industry where where people will
challenge the old guard and see who's going to write Larry

(11:11):
Gatekeep these sort of things. It's it's kind of funny.
But yeah, dive bars are an integral part of Los Angeles and
I don't want to see them go anywhere.
I see them being a very important part of people's
weekly lives. One interesting thing I think

(11:31):
that is happening with dive bars.
Look, we're talking about unassuming, community driven,
inclusive spaces, right? And we're talking about no
frills spaces too. But to your point, in your
example, a dive bar offering vegan ribs and vegan comfort
food, there's another trend I think that's really evolving as

(11:53):
part of this dive bar community,and that is mixology.
Now to me, when I walk into manydive bars, I think I have I have
the cans, whatever's on draft and maybe some basic liquor,
right? But now instead of beers and
well, drinks, more places are also adding A twist to the menu.

(12:15):
So instead of this, you know, hoity toity cocktail lounge, you
get that old school charm and that really widely appealing
setting. But you also are starting to get
craft drinks in mixology and really unique takes on on
beverages that you probably haven't seen before in a dive
bar. Yeah, and, and partially to that

(12:38):
point as well. I love that dive bars nowadays
are kind of taking these classiccocktails from long, long ago
and reinventing them or reintroducing them to younger
crowds, you know, like Tom Collins.
Obviously. You know, Old Fashioned's had a
huge rise of Negronis, all of these drinks that used to be

(13:03):
very popular in 50s, sixties, 70s, and maybe kind of
disappeared for a while. And now they're being
reintroduced, re imagined in this mixology way that I think
is really fun. But not only are we talking
about some of these classic cocktails that are making a
resurgence even in the in the dive bar scene, but we're also

(13:25):
seeing a rise of non alcoholic beverages as well, which might
be a surprise to some. Yeah, I think this is a very,
very interesting trend that is on the rise. 0 proof alcohol or
bars that feature non alcoholic beverages.
It is I think we should absolutely discuss this because

(13:47):
this is a huge area of interest,especially I feel like with
these, you know, dry January or I think somebody did dry Tober
could you could do. I've heard about it.
Dry June every it's just just put dry in front of it.
But, but just this concept of, you know, people coming into a

(14:08):
30 day period and just not having any alcohol for the
health benefits, mental health benefits, you know, I, I know a
lot of people came out of COVID and being locked up and they
just were like, I'm drinking toomuch.
I need to do something to kind of level this out.
So I think it's really cool thatthese non alcoholic or 0 proof
beverages are on the menu. Yeah, and I also think there's

(14:31):
something there too about the ritual of being out with
friends, getting drinks and especially some when surprising
enough, like the sober lifestylecan be somewhat look down upon
or demonize, especially if you're in a group that's quote
UN quote trying to have fun. Not to say everyone's like that.
It's a bit of a toxic take, but I feel like there has been, you
know, people fake that face backlash for wanting to switch

(14:53):
to water, say. So it's nice to have to give
them an opportunity to still participate in a group activity
and not feel like they have to drink alcohol.
Although I will say I I found that out of all my peers that
I've polled about this, oh God, the alliteration.
A lot of folks are really divided on the non alcoholic

(15:15):
beverages in a craft cocktail and mixology setting because to
me they say look I'm paying a markup for.
For. Alcohol, so are if you're going
to give me a Shirley Temple, I would expect a price decrease.
And so then you start to get to,OK, is it just an alcohol free
beverage or are you still getting a supremely crafted and

(15:37):
well thought out beverage that maybe deserves the price point?
I feel like that's a great question.
Yeah. I mean, and I know we're going
to talk about this here in a bit, but I think there are some
circumstances where it is reallybeneficial to still embrace it
as a premium offering even if itdoesn't have alcohol.

(15:59):
But even at that, I mean the nonalcoholic market is growing.
So volumes have been increasing 9% in 2022 and the international
wine and spirits record expects this growth to continue.
And so between 2022 and 2026, maybe what, 7 percent, 10% of
these sales and market growing exponentially.

(16:21):
Yeah. And in the US in 2022 alone, non
alcoholic sales reached nearly $400 million, with low alcohol
sales reaching nearly 3 billion.So.
Wow, And also one of the first introductions I've had to to a

(16:42):
non alcoholic line. So, you know, I've come across
like curious elixirs and things like that.
But I had a friend who was pregnant and she swore by things
like seed lip to where she couldhave, you know, these mocktails
that were so, so similar, not sponsored by silly lip, but you
know, whatever. But they were actually
absolutely delicious and made her didn't feel like she was

(17:04):
missing out, you know, due to, you know, being, being pregnant
and planning that part of her life.
So I thought that that was really special.
Yeah, I agree. I we, you know, I have a friend
who, you know, she doesn't drinkand when she comes over to the
house, my fiance will make her amocktail every time and, and
puts effort into it. You know, it's not just pouring

(17:25):
a glass of cranberry juice. It's like, you know, how can you
kind of jazz these drinks up, remove the alcohol, but like you
said, still provide people with the ritual of like congregating
over drinks and, and, you know, talking and, and having them be
included rather than take them out of the equation just because
they don't drink alcohol. Right.

(17:47):
There shouldn't be that stigma because yes, some people want to
take a tolerance break. They want to have a dry January
or dry Tober or dry whatever, and they want to maybe to
refocus on some goals. And there shouldn't be this like
undercurrent of well, why are you doing that?
I had AI love this bit by a comedian.
I forget who exactly about how people react whenever you tell

(18:09):
them that you don't drink or you're not drinking and they
say, why are you? Are you?
Is there a problem? Are you addicted?
And he compared it to you wouldn't do that with
mayonnaise. Like, Oh, I I don't eat
mayonnaise. Why are you addicted to
mayonnaise? You wouldn't ask that.
That's such a good point. Right.

(18:32):
But yeah, a few months ago, whenever you and I were in
Milwaukee for the Wisconsin State Fair, which we did an
episode on, listen to it if you haven't yet, we visited a really
special place called The Agency,and it is the country's very
first hybrid cocktail bar. My name is Ryan Castellez.
I am a drink maker kind of turned CEO drink maker, which

(18:57):
has been a really interesting transition from being a guy who
puts things in tins in the middle of the woods to lead 30
people across 5 businesses. It's been a pretty wild journey
and it's still honestly catchingmy tail a little bit every day.
My role with Agency is as a service director and founder, so

(19:18):
I work with Kat, who's our operating partner.
She is really the brains in the bronze behind the day-to-day at
Agency. She does all the ordering, the
training designs, the menus. Agency would not be a thing
without Kat Dodie. She is just an incredible,
incredible, incredible partner and an incredible mind and
visionary. We came up with the idea for

(19:40):
Agency kind of as an evolution of a body that we were trying to
run called the counter. It's been a really fun concept
to be able to put into the worldand to to share with people and
to see reactions. You know, I think anytime you do
something new and weird, it's fun to see how people react to
it. So this has been a really a
really fun concept to bring out to people.

(20:01):
You know, a core part of our work truly for both that and I
is what we call like narrative drink development.
You know, so we're we're building narrative frameworks
and when I when. When I talk about drink making
in general, I talk about two forms of drink making.
So we've top down drink making and we have bottom up drink
making. I think most a lot, a lot of

(20:22):
bars, a lot of coffee shops build from a bottom up
perspective, which is awesome. And we do this too, right?
So a bottom up drink would be these are the ingredients I have
in front of me. This is what I have in the
fridge. This is what I have in the back
bar. And I'm going to take these
ingredients to make a drink. And, and while in combining
these ingredients, a story will present itself and that story
that presents itself by the combination of these ingredients

(20:43):
is the overall end goal of that drink, a top down drink, which
is where we spend a lot of our time currently, is we actually
start with the story, we start with the idea.
And from that idea, we fill in the ingredients that best
talent. And so that's, that's been a
practice that we've honed in anddeveloped over over many, many
years of how do we build an actual translatable framework of

(21:08):
ingredients, textures, flavors, tonalities, temperatures,
smells, presentation that actually starts to trigger both
psychological and physiological responses that are in alignment
with our story. I think the bar scene is
continuing to evolve in really exciting ways, primarily, I

(21:32):
think one of the biggest evolutions that we've seen over
the last 20 years, technology has become a much bigger thing
in the bar world. In large part to Dave Arnold and
his publishing of the book Liquid Intelligence.
I think when that book came out,it was kind of a a new manifesto
for the bartender of wait, there's there's actually a lot
more to this than we thought. You know, like not only there is

(21:52):
there this craft, but there's also this science and there's
also this art. And, and I think that's what I
love about drink making is what I love so much about this field
is it is this perfect union of science and art.
There is both and both are necessary.
And the more science you know, the better art you can make.
The other is the move towards NA.

(22:13):
And I think this will be, this is not a trend, it is a movement
and it is a movement that is accelerating with wild
intensity. If you look at the compound
annual growth rate right now of the alcoholic segment, you're
right in between 1 and 2%. If you look at the compound
annual growth rate of the non alcoholic segment, you're right

(22:33):
in between 8 and 10%. We are literally growing the NA
segment four to five times faster than alcohol.
But this is not a trend, this isa movement.
And, and I think what is so important is that bars recognize
all bars, you know, that in order to maintain relevancy
going into the future, you need to be able to cater to both of

(22:55):
these programs and you need to be able to offer both of these
offers. I think dive bars for me are all
about the community. It's like, do I feel comfortable
here? That's really, that's really the
question, right? Because like the, the beers are
going to be pretty much the same.
The cocktails are going to be inmost dive bars pretty much the
same. For me, I think the number one
thing is how comfortable do I feel there?

(23:17):
I think in Milwaukee we're really blessed because we have a
couple bars that have this very like low brow approach to the
way that they approach bartending, But also the
cocktails are delicious. They're exemplary.
You know, mothership and thinks are the two that I think of all
the time. I think tin widow even has a
little bit of these vibes where they're they're not lux and

(23:39):
they're not trying to be, you know, they're they're community
watering holes. But the cocktails are great
because why not make great drinks like, like, and, and I
love that mentality. I think it's so, so cool.
You have rookie using the Suvi at Mothership and most people go
there and they get a $2.00 pint of hams.
You know, it's, it's just so cool that there are trick makers
in the city. Johnny Hackney is another guy.

(24:01):
He has a wild pedigree. It is like watching a dancer
dance when you watch this dude bartend and he bartends at
things, you know, it's a dipole with nice Catskills, you know,
and, and so I think that there'sa luck that we have in Milwaukee
where dive our culture here is so developed that we're, we're
able to have these bars that arejust that are outlets of

(24:23):
deliciousness. And I think we see that
primarily all over the Midwest. You know, I, I, I know many in
Chicago as well that, that have these divey little watering
whole fields. And then you order cocktails and
it's like, wait, damn, that's actually really good.
You know, so we can talk and waxpoetic about this all fucking
day. I can literally talk about this
shit till the cows come home, but if you come into agency and

(24:45):
have a bad drink and a bad experience, nothing that I said
matters at all, right? Because it's just it's just
fallacy. And, and so it's the people on
the ground floor of this, peoplelike Cat Alana, principal
bartender, Tierra and Nova are servers like these are the
people who are actually taking everything that we've just
talked about and translating it to the guest in a way that they

(25:06):
get to experience and understandand, and enjoy.
I mean, extremely small part of a very beautiful interworking
web that that creates this dynamic.
And, and I think all of the bestbars, whether you're a dive bar
or you're a craftable operating at the highest level, share that
philosophy. I think I need to address the

(25:27):
elephant in the room. Can you please one give me an
overview of what Spaghett is andand tell listeners the journey
we went on because of this A. Spaghett is a Miller High life
with Aperol and sounds interesting, right?
It's like you get this like pink.
They put the Aperol in the Miller High life.
It's like a pink reddish Anyway,so that's what a Spaghett is.

(25:52):
Then when we get to this, this bar, the agency, Ryan was like,
hey, do you know what a spaghetti is?
We have something similar, but they made it hilarious to where
they atomized spaghetti sauce and created their own label for
the Miller High life. That was like grandma's special

(26:12):
sauce or something. No, it is.
It is a play on the the Eminem song Mom Spaghetti.
Yes, the champagne of pasta. Yeah, and they so they sprayed
this spaghetti atomized spaghetti sauce into the high
life. So when you take a sip, you it

(26:33):
really tastes like spaghetti. And that was just their tongue,
tongue in cheek way of like shaping the and they served it
with a breadstick. They did.
Yeah, like just it's. It was just such a fun
experience being there anyway. Like Ryan brought it out, he put
on some white gloves. There were seven.
He displayed it. It was this the most hilarious,

(26:54):
well thought out and bizarre drink I've ever had.
I mean, look, we had to split it.
I don't think I could down multiples of these.
But I would highly recommend if you're ever in the Milwaukee
area, you have to try this cocktail.
It is bananas. 100% yeah. And and it was just, it's a
place where you can go, you can bring your friends who don't
drink and you could still get, everyone gets the same

(27:15):
experience there, which I think is very cool 'cause you can't
just go into any bar with a non drinker and have the same
experience. But this is like you go into the
agency whether you drink or you don't.
It's a shared experience. It is, and what's so special, I
think, about that experience we had together, but also the magic

(27:36):
of any dive bar is that it's theexperience and it's the stories.
And these bars are often run by passionate owners, and they've
probably seen it all, from wild nights to karaoke moments,
feather Boas, Strangeline dancing, and even just more
heartfelt moments. And, you know, dive bars aren't

(27:57):
just about the drinks, which might be the overarching theme.
We already discussed the cheers mentality.
And that's why I think there is this resurgence in dive bars or
being an ironic dive bar. You know, it's you're there are
places that offer connection andcomfort, sometimes even healing

(28:21):
if you're talking to somebody that you would never like talk
to on the street and you guys just happen to be splitting a
beer and like, what a great way to get to know your neighbor in
a safe space, you know? And these dive bars act as these
neighborhood anchors, places that you know you'll be welcomed
with open arms, a cold drink, and you'll probably remember

(28:41):
your name the second time you goin there, which is very special.
And I will say, like, I know we are a waxing poetic on dive
bars, but I just just, you know,girly things I wanted to put out
there. You can read the room if
something doesn't feel friendly.As much as I love walking into a
random bar and with the best intention, sometimes maybe it's

(29:03):
not the cheers mentality you're walking into.
So I would just say be open to it.
Don't be afraid of it because so, so many of these dive bars
are welcoming, wonderful places.And you should not judge a book
by its cover. But sometimes there are moments
where you're like, well, I am gonna piece out of this place.
I gave it a try and it's OK to you know, I've I've done the
turn around. I don't know if you've seen that

(29:23):
Simpsons clip where Grandpa Simpson walks in, sees barred at
the well, I'm going down a rabbit hole.
But basically you can 180 if youneed to.
Don't feel like you're silly or awkward.
Yeah, that's a actually, that's a very valid point And and a
great thing to touch on is that you know, like cuz me
personally, I usually try dive bars with other people.

(29:45):
I'm not really going alone cuz that's not something I
necessarily feel comfortable with.
But yeah, trust your intuition and make sure it's a safe
environment for you to be in. And yeah, if you have to leave,
you have to leave. No harm, no foul.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, to just to move forward as
we think about the future of dive bars with rising rents,

(30:10):
changing neighborhoods, a lot ofdive bars do face uncertain
futures because like even if they're not evolving their
offerings and adding mixology, if they really are a no frills,
we have Bud Light, Miller Lite, some well drinks sometimes it
there is some uncertainty there.I'm sure the margins aren't
crazy good, but still a lot of them are finding ways to thrive

(30:35):
and finding ways to connect withnew generations and adjusting to
modern taste. And I truly hope that more and
more dive bars can take a note from the more successful ones.
Cloak and Dagger is an intimate cocktail lounge and vegan
restaurant that is focused around craft cocktails and
shareable from scratch vegan small plates.

(30:56):
The menu format is in the style of a book, which we release
every three to four months. The cocktails are themed around
the book itself. The intention when launching
Cloak and Dagger was to first and foremost create a bar that
was lasting and much different than anything available in
Cleveland. We do that by offering a
completely vegan dining experience, from cocktails to

(31:17):
all the food in a comfortable space with no TV's in a very
intimate setting. I think that what makes us truly
special is the menus. We release menus that are so
immersive. The theme of the book makes you
want to drink and eat your way through the entire menu.
When we release a new menu 3 to 4 * a year, it's always

(31:38):
something new and exclusive because it isn't going to stay
around long. I think bar culture has shifted
in some ways, and in a lot of ways it's still, at its core,
the same thing. Dive bars still have a place,
cocktail lounges still have a place, and the restaurants with
a good signature cocktail list all have places.
But it has shifted where creativity drives lasting

(32:01):
business. Pushing limits of what can be
put in cocktails or how they look is endless.
Even dive bars now have signature cocktail menus and I
think that's really cool. I think staying relevant is a 2
headed dragon. Most times you have to have
people talking about you. Word of mouth is probably the
strongest thing that you can have, and the way you get word

(32:21):
of mouth is by having great hospitality and having a great
product. But there is the social media
side of things, and I think thatis becoming stronger and
stronger with this day and age. The creative process for me
always starts about a year in advance.
I start working on my menu release timeline each year,

(32:42):
about a year and ahead, planningthemes and what they're going to
be, what they're going to look like.
I start talking about it. I start talking about my
cocktails idea ideas, even if they're just rough.
I like to draw and I think that's probably the most
interesting thing is, even though I'm not the best at it, I
draw all my cocktails before I ever make them.
I even have this notebook that Icarry around that I drew the bar

(33:06):
before we saw it and it's prettyclose.
It's pretty, pretty damn close. The best winter cocktail in my
opinion is something that's going to be booze forward and
served hot. I'm a big fan of hot toddies or
hot rum punches. I've made both of those on cloak
and dagger menus and they're heavy favorites but I probably
like them because I'm a freeze baby so they serve them multi

(33:29):
purpose at that point. Favorite dive bar is a question
that hits home. Since I'm a new mom I don't get
out very much but my favorite one when we do go out is I like
Edison's a lot. It's only a few blocks from
Cloak and Dagger, so it's a favorite late night spot or an
after shift spot for most of us.Selection.

(33:50):
A pool table and a great Paddy on the back when the weather's
nice. It's a very chill vibe and
there's even pizza by the slice shop right next door if you're
hungry. It's.
Like I don't. Know it's kind.
Of it's similar to if you ever watched Anthony Bourdain when he
travels, that he's just like going into these places, you

(34:11):
know, no frills and just connecting with people.
And I feel like that is what dive bar culture is at its root
is connection. It is.
Yeah. And I feel like that's that's
something I know I issued that warning earlier about like
keeping your head on a swivel. But please open your hearts to

(34:31):
having these connections becauseyou're gonna have unforgettable
experiences if you are willing to do this.
So whether it is a classic dive bar or maybe a modern twist on
one, I think it is safe to say, Marissa, that dive bars are
probably here to stay. Yay.
Yeah. So whether they're serving up
drinks or a sense of community, that is just why we love them

(34:55):
and why I love them. And I hope that I have more and
more dive bar experiences for the years to come.