The Secret Life of an Insurance Agent

Ben Vetter of Marsh McLennan Insurance Agency shares his journey from advertising to insurance sales and his insights on building a successful career in the insurance industry. His transition story demonstrates how the insurance industry offers surprising benefits, including financial flexibility, work-life balance, and long-term job security that many professionals seek.

• Building a book of business takes persistence – Ben maintains both client folders and prospect folders, with the latter being much larger
• The "paradox of sales" means prospecting is the most critical activity, but also the easiest to push aside
• Insurance sales success requires mental resilience to handle rejection and maintain consistent effort
• The dramatic rise in homeowners and auto insurance rates stems from increased property values, construction costs, and weather events nationwide
• Distracted driving (primarily from phone use) is significantly driving up auto insurance claims and premiums
• For career seekers, insurance offers three key advantages: money flexibility, time flexibility, and job security
• Work-life balance in sales requires finding unconventional times to work, often late at night after family obligations
• Managing emerging producers involves helping them navigate their first 3-4 years until they reach "validation" (profitability)

If you're looking to connect with Ben or learn more about insurance opportunities, reach out to Marsh McLennan Agency.

Have ideas or would you like to be a guest? Send us a text!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to another episode of Stay Modern with
Murray, brought to you by MurrayCustom Homes, where we build
your dream home together.
Now sit back, buckle up andenjoy the ride with your host,
Matt Murray.
Thank you for joining us onthis long-awaited episode of
Stay Modern with Murray.
Today, we have a very specialguest, Ben Vetter of Marsh

(00:23):
McLennan Insurance Agency.
Ben, thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, thanks, Matt.
I appreciate you.
Having me on this will actuallybe probably a huge surprise,
but my first podcast I've everdone and people have told me for
years I have a face forpodcasts.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Ditto.
You know, I was just talking,we were just mentioning it
before we went on air.
I think this is my firstpodcast for three or four months
and my second one in like ayear.
It's just our schedules havejust been so crazy that Matthew
was filling in for me for awhile and then Kevin and Megan,
and so it's good to be back onthe air here.
Yeah, it's quite theundertaking, yeah, but thank you
for joining us.

(00:58):
Usually I try to do a lot ofresearch and gain information
about your story before, butwith this one I was just saying
let's just wing it.
I know we were talking a littlebit about the ins and the outs
of your agency and what you doand everything, and I was like
you know what, let's just waitand put it all on air.
So kind of just, let's justdive in.
Let's dive in about you firstand then we'll.
We'll go into the more companyaspect, but tell us about

(01:20):
yourself, your background, etcetera.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, well, I'm a native Nebraskan, grew up in
well, born in Lincoln, but grewup in Aurora, nebraska, which is
about an hour west of Lincoln,went to University of Nebraska
Lincoln, was a advertising majorwhen I was there and after
graduation, moved to Phoenix,Arizona, lived there for a

(01:43):
couple of years and got engagedto my wife, yep, and we moved to
Kansas City, lived there for 12years.
How'd you like Phoenix?
You know, loved Phoenix, and atthe time we were there just
kind of post-college, it was anabsolute blast.
I think in the two years wewere there we went to Vegas like
four times.

(02:03):
In the two years we were therewe went to Vegas like four times
, sedona a number of times andjust had a ton of fun.
The problem was is that gettingback to Nebraska cost money and
you just had this feeling ofmissing out because family would
have some events, of birthdays,you know, holidays you couldn't
make it back, for friends aregetting married.
There's just so much thatyou're missing out on.

(02:25):
And so we hit a point againafter we got engaged.
We're like, all right, we needto get back closer to home, and
my wife said, okay, well, I'mgoing to, I'll start looking for
apartments in Omaha and I'mlike, hold up, not ready to go
back to Nebraska quite yet.
I just feel like we need to getcloser so we're accessible.
And we kind of settled onKansas City.

(02:46):
We of course had some friendswho had moved there as well, but
and this was early days ofutilizing the internet At the
time there were apartment finderkind of websites, yeah and so
found one that we thought wasprobably in a decent, safe part
of town Without ever seeing it,rented it and drove back halfway
across the country and, yeah,then had a great life in Kansas

(03:08):
City and loved it there.
That's awesome I got.
I ended up getting a master, anMBA, from University of Missouri
, kansas City.
Oh, wow, so I'm a Roo ifthere's any Roos, any Roo alumni
who listen to this, but what'sRoo?
So they're the kangaroos.
Okay, university of Missouri,kansas City, kangaroos.
Gotcha, what years were you atthe university?

(03:29):
So 94 to 98.
Okay, you're just a little bitbefore me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talk allthe time how we kind of got
lucky on the period of time forthe football team.
Oh, yeah, 94 to 98 was kind ofthe heyday.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
So I didn't really follow Nebraska much before I
came here to wrestle and I camehere in like 01, 02.
And that was right when theteam I think we fired you know,
so that you're whatever backthen.
Yeah, I was like 10 and two,this is a hell of a year and
everybody else is saying this isa shitty year.
And then we all know whathappened after that.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
So we do, and it's funny how your perception
changes, where I remember thattime period and we were just,
you know, beside ourselves whenthe team would lose one, two,
three games or whatever in ayear, Cause we had lived through
those times when that was justa such a rarity and God would I
love to get back to back tothose winning ways.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Did you go to a lot of games when you were at the
university?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, for sure, we went to all the home ones.
Yeah, we'd go down and go tothe Kansas game when Nebraska
played Kansas down there.
I've done that.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Sit in the student section.
Yeah, oh God, that was so muchfun.
That was my fondest memories ofbeing at the university because
we get free tickets aswrestlers and just sit in the
student section with all yourfriends and student body and
other athletes.
It was wild, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, yeah, no better time.
And it's funny because you'llsee, and you'll see kind of
internet chat room stuff wherepeople will complain about the
student section in today's game.
Kids don't care anymore andthey're.
Look at the top of the studentsection it's empty.
And I'm like I was there duringthe best times.

(05:04):
I would assume that peoplecould argue that.
But in great times and that'salso how the student section
looked Everyone would pile downto the bottom as close as they
could.
And if you had partaken in alittle too much alcohol prior to
the game or if you were justfeeling crowded or whatever, you
could go sit up at the top andit was wide open up there.
But I think people look forthings to call out on there.

(05:27):
But I still anytime someonewill bring that up like students
today don't care, I'm likestudents are the same, we just
don't have a bubble.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
We just all congregate into one little area.
That's how we did.
Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
One row would be on the cement and then the next one
would be on the bleacher, andthen so you double up and turn.
Yeah, you didn't have your ownlittle space.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
No, no.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, we were all crammed down there, but yeah,
those were great times yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
So then you made it back to Lincoln Omaha.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yes, yeah, so about so 2012,.
We decided to move back.
We had two boys when we wereliving in Kansas city and it was
kind of a all right, are wedone, are we not?
It had been kind of a five-yearbreak and we kind of agreed
like we're both down for havinganother kid, but if we do, we
need some more support, andneither one of us have

(06:14):
necessarily parents who arethose.
You know they're going to watchyour kids every day or anything
.
But if we ever had somethingwonky, go on.
It's nice to have kind offamily around.
So we put our house up for salewhen my wife was pregnant with
our third and then I took a jobthat would transition me up
there.
So, essentially, took a job inOmaha, but they let me work in

(06:35):
Kansas City for three days ofthe week and then I'd go up
there every single week oh,that's awesome.
A couple of days, and so,anyway, ended up finding a nice
house that worked out in Gretna.
It was hell, but got our housesold in Kansas City and then,
yeah, so we've been essentiallyin Gretna ever since 2012.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
2012, so 13, 14 years , huh.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, so then.
So we're up here, we have ourthird, had our daughter, and I
wasn't super excited about whatI was doing at the time.
Yep, I wasn't in insurance, Ididn't, I could barely spell
insurance.
Probably at the time I startpoking around for jobs and I'm
interviewing around for kind ofdirector of marketing type roles
, which is kind of the path thatI had and nothing was feeling

(07:21):
right and I just kind of thought, all right, you know, I've got
some good experience.
I've got kind of the educationboxes checked, like what if I
step back and say what's outthere, like what could I do?
And kind of check some boxesthat I had as to what I wanted
you know my career to look like,and so kind of stepped back,

(07:43):
poked around, look like, and sokind of stepped back, poked
around.
And my wife's uncle his name isRandy Eichmeier, he was with an
insurance agency called Innsproand again, I had my personal
insurance through him.
I just assumed that he hadthings covered and figured out,
but I also knew that you know,he's a successful guy and and
then the other part of it islike he had flexibility and and
then the other part of it islike he had flexibility.

(08:03):
Like he, his son, playeddivision one college basketball
for Colorado State and I don'tthink Randy and and Shelly
missed one of his games.
That's awesome, do.
But can we grab a beer orsomething and just talk through
what an insurance agency does,right?

(08:25):
And so we met LBs in Waterlooand he's kind of like you know,
what do you want, what do youwant to do?
And I said I've really kind ofthought of three things that I
want.
Like number one, moneyflexibility.
Right, like I want I'm a hardworker and the harder I work I
want to be compensated for that.
And I don't and no offense toanyone who kind of who works,

(08:48):
you know, kind of your eight tofive salary kind of jobs, but I
want there to be more thanhoping for a 3% salary increase
every year.
And so money flexibility.
And then I'm like timeflexibility.
I've never had a job where if Ihad my kid had a doctor's
appointment, I couldn't say, hey, can I have an hour off?
I'm going to take my kid to thedoctor, sure, but I also don't

(09:10):
want to ask anyone that, right,I want to set my own time, set
my own course, work when I needto, and I don't want to miss
things that are important to meand my family and my kids, but I
also like that's not saying Idon't want to work, I just want
some flexibility there, right?
And the third one was jobsecurity.
And I said you know, I'm inkind of a marketing advertising
world and you know at the timeI'm late thirties, mid to late

(09:34):
thirties and the way things gothere, like I don't want to get
laid off when I'm 50, 55 orsomething, and then I can't find
another comparable job becauseno one wants an old guy telling
them what to do and creativekind of marketing stuff, and so
those were my three things.
And so Randy came back and hesaid you know what?
I'll tell you what.
So the role that we're kind ofthinking of here, which would be

(09:54):
a sales role with our insuranceagency.
Money flexibility, ultimatemoney flexibility you can make
as much as you want, the moreyou sell.
We eat what we kill.
That kind of sales deal Uh,time flexibility completely
yours.
You.
You know there's no one watchingyou, there's no one telling you
where to go, what to do.
Uh, you're going to.

(10:14):
If you're going to do this,right, you're going to be
working more than 40 hours aweek, but you can.
You'll never miss one of yourkids events that you don't want
to miss and one of your kidsevents that you don't want to
miss.
And then job security.
He's like look, people work ininsurance as long as they want,
and if you have a book ofbusiness that you've built up,
then people can stay on, youknow, as long as they want.
And and I actually I feel like Ithink back to that conversation

(10:38):
and there's actually kind ofanother level to that job
security thing, and this goesfor any type of sales that
you're talking about, whetherit's mortgages, roofs, whatever
it is I tell and I manage anumber of salespeople and I tell
them that if you learn how tosell insurance, if you are good
at insurance, you know insuranceand you have a track record of

(11:00):
being able to sell it, you cango to any corner of the United
States or probably the world andthere is someone who wants you
to help them sell insurance.
Right, you could go anywhereand get a job.
It doesn't seem like a skill,but it is very much a skill
where, if I moved to you know,gig Harbor, washington there's

(11:22):
an agency in there that wouldlove to have someone walk in and
say I've built up a book ofbusiness before.
I understand no insurance.
Do you want me to work for you?
And they'd take you in a second.
So I think job security wise andagain, like I say, that goes
for any kind of sales job.
I mean, that's such an integralpart for companies that,
whether you have a full staff ornot, people are looking for

(11:44):
someone who can sell and that'show they generate revenue.
Yep, and so knowing that's ahuge key, so anyway, I.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
It's funny you mentioned that because I was
just telling you about mybrother writing the book, about
my dad, yeah, and everybodyasked what my dad did.
Well, he was an entrepreneur.
He just did a million differentthings.
But the thing that we alwayssay about my dad is you could
sell a ketchup popsicle to agirl in a white dress, you know,
or an ice cream cone to aEskimo.
He just was a salespersonthrough and through, yep.
Everything he did, from buyingvehicles to selling lawn care,

(12:15):
to everything he was just a truesalesman.
He could sell himself, sell hispeople, and that's what made
him successful.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, Well, it's a.
I mean, that in itself is a isa huge benefit, obviously in the
role and I, you know, sales is.
You know, a lot of people thinkof it as a numbers game, right,
Well, you reach out to enoughpeople or you do this or that,
Yep, but there's that kind ofsales person like that's built
into good salespeople.
I feel like, yeah, absolutely,and it can't be taught, Yep, you

(12:43):
know, and you know it'd be likewrestling, right, Like if I
took one of my kids and you know18 hours a day.
we're working on wrestlingskills or whatever.
They're never going to be goodas you would have been Right.
Just because you had a natural,there was a natural, yeah
you're right.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, we can hone the skills, but it's hard to make
somebody a salesman that's not asalesman.
So tell me a little bit about.
He was asking me earlier and Iwanted to wait to ask these
questions until we got on theair.
So you're with InSpro, right?
Yep?
Who's a Marsh McLennan agency,right?
Correct?
So kind of explain that dynamicand who does what and how that
all works.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yep.
So when I took the job thenback in 2014, it was Innspro and
the agency had about 120 people, offices in Omaha, lincoln, des
Moines, west Point, wahoo andFremont and so very much
obviously Nebraska, a little bitof Iowa.
So then right about five yearsago, kind of heart of COVID

(13:43):
times, our agency was purchasedor acquired by Marsh McLennan
Agency and McLennan Agency is apart of the largest insurance
agency in the world, okay, andso it's got kind of various
forms like for big, for verylarge organizations.
You know, google, Facebook.
I mean we insure Amazon, weinsure companies like that

(14:04):
through a kind of our Marshdivision.
And then Marsh McLennan agencyis really the middle market
insurance agency so we sell sobusiness insurance, employee
health and benefits, lifeinsurance, personal insurance,
so really anything kind ofinsurance related, Hole-in-one
insurance.
Hole-in-one insurance.
I think that's one I got tocheck.

(14:25):
That's one I need to check on.
I believe that we can sellhole-in-one insurance.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
For that golf tournament we have coming up I
say just let it fly.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, who's really going to put my house on it?
I'm going to be in that golftournament, I don't feel like
you need to worry.
Yeah, yeah.
So but my area ofspecialization is business
insurance.
I do some personal insurance,usually for kind of clients and
people who need some help withit, but for the most part I'm
working with businesses on theirproperty insurance, general
liability, workers' compensation, auto, that type of stuff,

(14:54):
awesome.
But back to then the InnsproMarshall Clinton Agency.
So we're technically owned byMarshall Clinton Agency, but our
portion we still go by Innspro.
We kind of go by both things.
We'll probably potentially dropthe Innspro name at some point
down the line, but then we kindof the mothership is Marsh
McLennan Agency and we stillkind of get some guidance and
direction there.

(15:14):
But for the most part we'refairly autonomous.
We just kind of use them for alot of the resources that they
have and can offer Okay, sothere's kind of your parent
company for sure.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Well, what, what do you?
What exactly do you do?
What's your role?
I know you kind of told me,sales, sales manager.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, yeah, so for sure.
And insurance wise and I'm nota fan of the, the, the term or
whatever, but producer would bemy, my title or what all of our
salespeople are I, which I again, I don't like that because I
think that makes it sound likewe're we're just out producing,
selling constantly, and then I.
The great thing about insurancesales is the residual

(15:53):
compensation that you get offoff a book of business, so as
when I sell or I get a newclient as a business, that's
still my responsibilitythroughout the time that we're
insuring them.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Like us?
Yeah, like I'm a pain in theass.
Ask questions all the time,right, just you know.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
And various companies are more needy than others.
Yep, job kind of evolves frommore 100% every day out beating
the streets looking for newopportunities to managing a book
and utilizing your book andrelationships and there to kind
of get opportunities to keepgrowing your book.

(16:30):
So I for sure still do that.
And then secondarily I kind ofcall my second full-time job is
on the sales management side.
So my title on that is emergingproducer sales leader.
So we have right now rightaround 40 total folks that are
out selling between businessinsurance, employee health and

(16:51):
benefits, and then we have abond salesperson and that's all
out of the Omaha office.
Nope, that's scatteredthroughout Des Moines, Omaha,
lincoln, we've got a guy inFremont, we've got a couple of
guys actually out in Kearney, sothey're kind of spread all out
but a total of 40 salespeople.
And then I'm charged withoverseeing the emerging
producers or the newer people tothe role, and normally that's

(17:13):
people who in their first fouryears of selling, who are really
kind of in the Green, yeah yeah, and everyone comes from a
different background andperspective.
So some come with insurancesales experience and some come
like I did not even knowing howto sell or spell insurance.
So there's.
They come from all sides, soit's kind of a each person's

(17:34):
their own unique kind ofchallenge and getting them up to
speed and without saying namesare getting too personal.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Would you prefer somebody that came with industry
knowledge and had thebackground in insurance?
Or would you prefer someonethat came with a clean slate,
with sales experience but not inthe industry?
So they're a clean slate andcan do it your way.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, yeah, Great question.
So I I, what I normally say isthere's kind of three things
that make someone good, kind ofa good prospect.
And number one obviously having, yeah, insurance experience,
and that doesn't have to besales, that can be they worked
on the carrier side or theyworked, they worked for State
Farm and now they're coming intomore of an independent agency
like ours.
Whatever it is kind of havingthat knowledge.

(18:15):
Number two is is salesexperience.
So yeah, you didn't, you know,we have one guy who's just doing
an amazing job and soldroll-off dumpsters and so he was
B2B sales.
He was in a very sales-focusedkind of role but not in
insurance, so had that sales one.

(18:36):
And the third one is more just,you know network or life
experience or whatever.
It is Someone who they may nothave done necessarily sales.
Necessarily they may.
You know, obviously not theinsurance experience, but they
know people in town, they knowwho to talk to, They've built
relationships, they have goodrelationships and someone like

(18:57):
that who we can train, kind oftrain on the other, those other
parts and then and then harnesstheir right their network and
relationships and that givesthem a head start.
what I'll say is, if you don'thave any of those three, it's a
little rough, it's tough and weare at a point where that it we
would have trouble bringingsomeone like that on just
because there's so many otherpeople that kind of uh fit

(19:19):
profile Right.
But I'll tell you, I was thatperson who didn't have any of
those.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, I had no and a lot of the people that I hired
yeah have been.
I wouldn't say the majority,let's just leave it at 50-50.
But 50% of the time I'mpleasantly surprised and excited
when they come in with a blankslate, right.
I'm pleasantly surprised andexcited when they come in with a
blank slate, right.
Yeah, some of our bestperformers in our company are
the people that came in with ablank slate.
Yeah, I was in the custom homeworld and roofing world.

(19:48):
Just the people that are eagerto learn and have that knowledge
of sales and are ready to throwthemselves at it.
I love that.
But then the other people thatcome in that do have industry
knowledge, it's awesome becausethey just hit the ground running
.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, but then the other people that come in that
do have industry knowledge, it'sawesome because they just hit
the ground running, butsometimes they just bring a lot
of bad habits For sure, and youhave to kind of retrain them and
that's tough to do and theythink they know how this is how
it should be done and so, yeah,it brings along its own
challenges.
I mean, it's very rare that youhave someone who can truly hit
the ground running.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yep, and you know, I just kind of thought of this I
haven't really spoke about it,but it kind of feels like the
longer we do this right.
So we go through these trialsand tribulations and you know we
do stuff wrong and then wecorrect it.
We, you know we move the needlea little bit.
We've tried a lot of stuff, andyou kind of hone in on your

(20:39):
company's expertise in your laneand when somebody else comes in
you you like to say like we'reopen-minded.
You know we're used to say I'ma young company, but you know
I've been in business for quitea while now and but we are
open-minded, like if you havesuggestions, we'll take them,
we'll try it.
But when these people come infrom these other companies that

(21:01):
that haven't been around as longas us, it's kind of hard
because they mention somethingto you and they want you to do
it, but it's already been donebefore and we know that it
doesn't work.
And so it's kind of hard tobalance that act of
acknowledging theirrecommendations and their
suggestions and taking them toheart and then also kind of
being like, yeah, but your ideahas already been tried, right.
Yeah, but yeah, it's kind oftough to balance that.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
And you can tell people that and they're going to
say, yeah, but I still do alittle different.
And so in many ways, you haveto let people kind of figure
that out on their own and thenthey'll come back six months
later and be like you know how?
You told me that that wasn'tprobably the best approach, but
that's all part of it.
I mean, what they're learningin finding out what doesn't work

(21:42):
is what's going to help themdown the line Absolutely, and in
your sales type roles that youhave and the ones that we have,
no one does it exactly the same.
I mean, I wish it was a dealwhere I could, you know, put
together a manual and say you dothis, this, this and this and
this exact order.
And you will be at this pointat this time.
You know, and and every sale isdifferent.

(22:03):
Every, every salesperson isdifferent.
They've got their own ways ofdoing things and skills and
better at one thing than theother, and every book of
business is different.
So you almost have to just kindof step back a little bit and
make sure that they're workinghard, make sure they're doing
what they need to do.
They're learning, they'reconstantly learning, but let
their book evolve, yep, but Istill.

(22:23):
I always tell people.
It's like you come in here, youtake guidance from us, you put
your head down and you workharder than everybody else and
in five years you will pop yourhead up and you'll look around
and you'll say, goddamn, I'vegot a great book of business,
I'm making more money than Iever thought and I love what I

(22:45):
do.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
And it's hard for people when you're one year, two
year in it is, you're exactlyright.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
And it's so hard to even though you say that at the
beginning, what you just said,and you said it perfectly.
It's so hard to keep thatmentality fresh with them
Because you know, I tell themit's like blackjack you go on,
runs right, exactly.
You're going to go through aperiod where you just can't hit,
you can't win at all for thelife of you.

(23:11):
You get an 11 versus six andyou just bust.
You know, john's a perfectexample.
Like he's like dude, eventhough I know you told me that
like I lost six contracts thisweek by a combination of like
$300 total.
Like they didn't call me back,they didn't give me a chance,
and then the next week he gotsix contracts from like a year
ago that he didn't even know wason his radar.

(23:31):
And I dude, it's just.
You just stick with it.
Like you said, keep your headdown, stick with it.
Build your book of businessBecause in the roofing industry
it's the same right.
You build your book of businessand then, unfortunately, you
hope a hailstorm comes along andthen your book of business,
you've treated well, you've gotreferrals from.
They call Yep, and then theyrefer all their friends.
So it's kind of.
We have a brand ambassador.
That's the same way.
Keep your head down, don't getfrustrated.

(23:52):
You're going to get told, no alot, it'll, it'll pop.
And so it's just so hard tobecause you know I don't have
the time.
You know I'm really good atkeeping them on track and giving
these speeches, but I don'thave time to meet with every one
of them.
You know, every week or everymonth, to to give these speeches
and pull them out of the slumpswhen they're in slumps, you

(24:13):
know yeah, but yeah, so I meanwhat I always will.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
I'll do.
Someone will come in andthey're they're on a bad stretch
, right, they had had a fewdeals that they thought they
were doing the put it on theMoney in the bank, money in the
bank, the mental ledger of whatmoney they were going to make
and whatever.
And then, for whatever reason,it doesn't hit and I'll kind of
bring them in my office andwe'll kind of talk through it.

(24:37):
And I'm like I want you to takea look at something.
So, office, and we'll kind oftalk through it.
And I'm like I want you to takea look at something.
So I'll flip my monitor aroundand I'll click open my clients
folder and so for every one ofmy clients I have a folder in
the clients folder, right.
And so I go and I scroll downit and I've been doing this a
long time.
So I've got a lot of folders inthere.
And I say you see that this ismy clients folder.

(24:58):
You know how you end up in theclient's folder, what you insure
them.
I'm like, yeah, that's right.
See, I've got a lot and it tookme all these years to do that.
And they're like, wow, great,good for you.
And then I'm like I want to showyou another folder.
And I click open my prospectsfolder and I say you know what?
And they're like the ones youdidn't get.

(25:18):
I'm like, yeah, I open a folderfor everyone, but if they don't
get drugged to the client'sfolder.
I didn't win that business.
And I start scrolling down myprospects folder and I'm like
every one of these is one that Iworked on and did not win.
And my point is is that, inorder to have a client's folder
that looks like my client'sfolder, you're going to have a

(25:38):
prospects folder that looks likemy prospects folder, clients
folder.
You're going to have aprospects folder that looks like
my prospects folder.
So you're, you're just addingto the prospects folder.
But that is a part of theprocess.
That's good.
You know, no one, no one, hitsnine out of 10.
And if you, if you are, you'renot, you're probably not casting
a wide enough net or whatever.
It is Right.
So so it's, I mean it's, andyou have to have people who have
that, that mental ability tonot get.
You know, not let the highs,get too high on the highs and

(26:01):
too low on the lows, and justkeep again, keep your head down
and keep charging.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Every no means something.
It's like throwing.
My dad always told me it's likethrowing darts at the dartboard
.
Every time you get a no it'sgetting you a little closer to
the bullseye.
Yeah, it's so true.
Every time you get told no, Ihave to keep telling these guys
like, why did you get told no?
Like, call the person back andoffer them a gift card.
They're your best resource.
Call them and say hey, listen,I want to give you a $50 gift

(26:27):
card if you can give me somefeedback on why we lost the job.
Was it something I did?
Was it our price?
Was it our reputation?
Was it our warranty?
You know all the things andthen take that information and
correct it for the next one.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, understand it.
Yeah, yeah, make, yeah, learnfrom literally everything you do
.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, so many people just get upset about it and
they're like, oh, screw that one, move on to the next one.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
But it's.
But yeah, there's so muchlearning.
There may be more learning thatcomes out of not winning
something.
And then you go back and youhappy with their current agent
and they told you that, whatever, it is right and you should
have said you know what itdoesn't sound like, this is the

(27:08):
time.
But if any of that changes,come back to me.
But for young salespeople andfor experienced salespeople,
they get a sniff at anopportunity and they're going to
say, no, give me a chance, youknow, or I'm going to say
something that's going to turnthe tide, but then you lose one
and you look back and you'relike, ah yeah, shouldn't have
done that.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
So we left on.
So your second full-time job,yeah, so you managed the
emerging Yep, and so did you sayyou have 15 of those.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, yeah, right about 15.
And then and we kind of have sothere's a calculus in the
insurance world Maybe that's thecase with other kind of sales
jobs where you validateessentially, once you're
bringing in more money thanyou're costing the company to
have you on board, essentiallyright.
So, and that normally takesgood salespeople, you know,

(27:53):
three to four years.
I have a couple that arepushing two years because
they're just good doing anawesome job, gangbusters.
Years because they're just gooddoing an awesome job,
gangbusters.
And then at that point we havean overall VP of executive, vice
president of sales or whateverTyler Teese is his name, and
then he kind of takes over fromthere.
But it should be a little less,not as much of a high touch
kind of situation, kind ofsalesman.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
So you're at the beginning.
You wean them and get them upto the point of not that
equilibrium, of making enoughmoney to where they're not
costing the company money.
So you have them on salaryuntil that point.
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
So there is a and we do it different now with with
Marsh McLennan.
Before we would just you'd makeit, you'd take a draw and you
would go in the hole and thenyou would dig yourself out of it
, and that was- 100% commission,basically whole and then you
would dig yourself out of it,and that was 100% commission,
basically, essentially.
Yeah yeah, we start folks offwith a salary and then there are
step downs each year, gotcha.
So your commission shouldreplace your lost and it should

(28:50):
replace in, more ideally, thestep downs that you're taking.
So, and then.
But after you're thatvalidation period, obviously the
salary goes away and you're100% commission, then your book
of business should be paying.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
So what's your day-to-day look like when you
say it's your second job?
So you have your full-time jobof manning your book of business
, and then you have yourfull-time job of being needed by
all these other emergingproducers.
What's that job look like?
What's your day-to-day looklike for that?

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, so I mean it is , and I know you're the same way
, but every day is different andso every day consists of moving
renewals along.
So in having renewal meetings Imeet with all, with every
client of mine, at least the onetime in a year, a couple months
before their renewal, hopefullyhitting them a few times before
that at different kind ofopportunities.
So it's spinning that plateright, getting all your renewals

(29:43):
done.
And then on the salesmanagement side we have, I mean,
I have quarterly meetings withall my folks.
We have a monthly Zoom call andwe have other events throughout
the year.
We have a big validationcelebration when anyone
validates, and I'm also doing,and then I also have a
one-on-one meeting witheverybody once a month.
So there's kind of that in thesales training and kind of
growth side.

(30:03):
But then on a daily basis I'mtalking to multiple of them just
kind of all right, they'rerunning into something.
How do I get past this?
What do I do?
How do I navigate this?
You're their 800 hotline Forsure, myself I mean, and we got

(30:24):
a bunch of great people.
So they'll come to me, butthey'll also come to other folks
, other salespeople, but Tylerand myself are kind of the ones,
of course, who kind of getcompensated for that role, so
for sure.
So people will regularly bereaching out.
So, yeah, the day is packed fullwith all of that and you'd say
that, well, you're missing oneimportant thing that should be a
part of any salesperson's joband that would be prospecting.
Right, if you have time, yeah,and so.

(30:45):
Yeah, it's funny how I meanagain, as I, as my book's grown,
that's become kind of lessnecessary.
But I think this is the casenot only for myself but every
salesperson, whether it'swhatever you're selling, and for
sure for people in insurancesales.
And I call it kind of theparadox of sales that you, the
most important thing that youcould be doing, that any of us

(31:08):
could be doing in sales, isprospecting, trying to bring in
more business.
Right, the paradox is that's theeasiest thing to push aside.
Right, it's the easiest thingto say, yeah, well, but I've got
to answer these emails.
Or, oh, I'm going to meet withthis center of influence person.
Or, oh, I should be doing X, yor Z, or I got to go do stuff

(31:31):
for my kids, or whatever it is.
For whatever reason, theprospecting ends up being the
one because it's easiest to pushside because there's no,
there's no real deadline on it.
I mean, there is, if you havesales goals, obviously, but but
there's no, no real deadline.
So you find that it's theeasiest one to push your side,
but but that's what we're paidto do, that's what the company
wants us to be out doing is that, and so so it's.

(31:52):
It's.
It's always a challenge, butbut especially when I kind of
added that sales managementcomponent into it, it leaves
less time.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
I was going to say that, yeah, yeah, I have zero
time for that, right, right, Itotally get it.
So with the insurance industry,we all know, all the listeners
know with the pain of renewingtheir homeowner's insurance shit
.
I went through that a month agowith.
I reached out to you because Iwas like holy cow, my
homeowner's insurance went up38% in one year, just with all

(32:20):
the claims from the storms andthe coast and stuff like that.
How is that affecting yourindustry and your business?
I know we went through that amonth or two ago just with our
builder's risk insurance themtaking away, you know, like soft
metal damage, raising our hellclaim and stuff like that.
So what, what do you see inthere and how do you see this
evolving over the next few years?

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, so for sure, and you're a hundred percent
right.
The and and insurance has it'sbeen around a long time and so
there it goes through kind ofdifferent, kind of different
phases, right, and it's beenwhat's called a hard market here
recently, essentially harder tofind coverage for things, and a
big part of that is the weatherand everyone see, that's what I

(33:00):
say.
Like everyone feels thatbecause everyone who owns a home
has homeowner's insurance,right, and people will come to
me and they'll be like what thehell is going on?
I look back, like five yearsago I was paying $2,000 a year
for my homeowner's insurance.
Now I'm paying like $4,200 iswhat my renewal is.
This is bullshit.

(33:20):
What's going on?
They're screwing me.
And I say, all right, okay,let's take a look at this.
First off, what was your houseworth five years ago?
Right, and?
And I'll be like, ah yeah, youknow, it was probably like three
, three, 50 is probably whatever.
And I'll be like, what's yourhouse worth now?
And I'm like, oh geez, I feellike the assessor just came by

(33:41):
and whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
It's 500.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
I'm like okay, so.
So let's factor that in, right,like, the insurance company has
more exposure.
There is more there thatthey're insuring and you've
benefited from that too.
You have benefited in theequity in your home being so
much more because you've grownwith that right, so that's part
of it.
For sure is that stuff is moreand really insurance is not
assessed value, it's not a saleprice, it's cost of construction

(34:06):
, right, and you may well knowand understand this, that
construction costs have gone upover the years A little bit.
Right, so that's part of it.
But then the other part is, yeah, the weather that we've been
experiencing and people will belike I'm in Omaha, nebraska, I'm
in Lincoln, nebraska, how dofires in Maui?
Why would that affect me?
How do half of Los Angelesbring down?

(34:29):
How does a hurricane in Florida?
Why, why the hell would thatbother me?
And it's a little kind ofinsurance nerdy, nuts and bolts
kind of stuff.
But but every insurance companyincluding, I mean, I don't know
, I guess maybe everyone but anythat I know of they have to buy
insurance for big events, right, they say, well, we can handle

(34:51):
a hurricane, but we're maxed outat 500 million, so they buy
insurance for the next 500million or whatever, and that's
called the reinsurance marketand that reinsurance market of
course sells to all theinsurance companies that we all
use.
Well, that reinsurancemarketplace has been taxed so
much lately because of fires allover and hurricanes and

(35:15):
tornadoes and whatever elsehappens.
It's just the frequency hasgone up in those.
And so what do they do?
I mean, again, they're there tomake money, just like all the
other insurance companies are.
So they raise premiums on theinsurance carriers and they
raise deductibles on theinsurance carriers.
And so what do our insurancecarriers do?
They raise premiums, they raisedeductibles, and so all of that
goes into that, to thatincrease.

(35:36):
And so I'll tell people whocome to me about their
homeowner's insurance what'syour home value?
500,000.
What are you paying?
About $4,000.
You're probably in a good place, even though it feels like it's
going up, and it is going up.
You're still.
There's still a good place foryou to be price-wise and they
can check things.
We have markets for personalinsurance too, but everyone's
experiencing, I guess, is mypoint.

(35:56):
Yeah, and then sticking onpersonal insurance, I know I've
talked to you about this overtime, but auto insurance also
has gone up, kind of for thesame reason that the homeowners
has gone up, because people cometo me and like, hey, I'm paying
, like you know, $5,000 a yearin my auto insurance.
I was never paying that muchbefore.
Well, what were you drivingfive years ago, right?

(36:17):
Well, I was driving an F-150.
What was that thing worth?
Like $20,000.
Well, what's that thing sittingout there?
Now?
That was like $80,000, right,so just understand.
There's probably more exposurethere.
But also in today's world,people are getting into more
accidents than they ever have,and again I've oh yeah, us Well.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, right In the last two weeks, yeah right, but
what's causing it right?

Speaker 2 (36:41):
So why are people getting in more accidents?
Have I asked you that before?
No, what would be your guess?
And I'd put you on the spot.
Probably on their phone.
More often, exactly, distracteddriving, yeah, yeah.
So until they figure that out,I mean and everyone knows it you
go to pull up to anintersection and look at what
all the other people are doing.
And at least half of them arelooking at the phone driving
down the interstate.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
I mean myself.
I've sat through green lightsRight.
They're looking at emails.
No, I don't do that.
I'm kidding what You're tellingme.
You're a insurance agent?

Speaker 2 (37:11):
No, but yeah, you look at most accidents, you know
, and like we had a terrible onein Gretna where a truck ran
into the back of a car andkilled the kids that were in the
back of the car and they wereparked.
The car was parked at astoplight and I said, yeah, I'm
sure they're going to look intowhat happened, but there's no
doubt what happened.
Like no one just drives intothe back of a car that's parked,

(37:40):
unless you're looking at aphone, or I mean maybe you're
messing with the radio.
But I mean I just feel like atsome point again, either through
technology or governmentregulation or something, we'll
look back, you know, 10 yearsfrom now, and be like remember
when we all used to drive aroundlooking at a phone, like how
freaking crazy that was and howmany more accidents there was,
and, and so I again I thinkit'll some.
It'll hopefully get fixed atsome point, yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Let's get to some of the good questions, like what
advice do you have for someonelooking to get into the
insurance agency world?
Like you were saying, ifsomebody was going to possibly
look for getting a job orgetting into your world, what
would you recommend?

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah.
So one thing about insurance isno one plans on usually going
into insurance.
There's no 15-year-olds usuallywho, unless maybe your dad is,
but most 15-year-olds are likeyou know, what I want to do
someday is insurance and so, andactually like I think the
university of Iowa has a programfor insurance that they've got

(38:39):
kids coming through, but for themost part, yeah, most people
end up there.
That's how they kind of kind ofkind of fall into kind of a a
hidden gem.
I think, if you will, becauseit's an awesome industry.
I mean it's again, you're not,you're not dealing with.
I mean you're dealing with somekind of some you know, kind of
complicated legal things andcontracts and all that kind of
stuff.
So but the people who end up ininsurance for the most part are,

(39:02):
are great people, and I I tellfolks who are kind of
considering or thinking about it, whether it's whether you want
to be in sales or not, becauseagain, we kind of talked about
there's that there's kind of anintrinsic kind of part to people
that ends up making them goodsalespeople.
And maybe you have that, maybeyou don't.
But there are other great jobs,great professional jobs that
right out of school you can makegood, solid money and learn a

(39:25):
trade, and learn a trade.
And the same thing I was sayingon the sales side relates to
people in any kind of job in aninsurance, whether it's you're
in account management ormarketing or whatever it is, if
you get good at that and youcould walk into an agency and
say here I've managed a book ofyou know, a $750,000 book of
business for salespeople in thisagency.

(39:46):
Our agency, for sure, is goingto be like you know when can you
?
start right, and that's the caseeverywhere.
So so I think, but not a lot ofpeople think of it and not a
lot of people I mean even peoplewho cause.
Everyone has insurance,everyone purchases insurance,
but most people, just like I waswhatever 12 years ago, I didn't
really understand it or know it, and so, but yeah, once you get

(40:07):
in there and once you learnabout how it works and why it's
important in the world and andwhy people need it, then you
know it ends up just being agreat career and a great
industry to work in.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yep, well, how do you maintain your work-life balance
?
Because I noticed that you havethe same problem I have, in
that you have your main gig andthen you have all these other
gigs, and it's like I do I havemy full-time job that I'm
supposed to be doing, and then Ihave my other job, that's
maintaining everybody.
That's kind of my full-time jobtoo, but it's like which one

(40:37):
comes first, right, and so howdo you maintain that?
What do you do?
Cause I'm assuming you're likeme, where you get calls all
hours of the day, all weekend,off hours, kid, sports You're
always getting tasked with stufffrom either clients or
employees or salespeople.
How do you, what have you doneover the years to maintain that?

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah Well, I'd say, well, number one, I do not have
as many gigs as you do.
I didn't realize.
Like you mentioned this podcastand I so.
Then, of course, recently Ilooked up, just to kind of
Googled Matt Murray podcast andI'm like you've done like 50 of
these, like geez you're.
I mean that's another full-timejob, you're doing a podcast.
I'm hoping you're making justboatloads of money on this.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Oh yeah, I doubt that .
Yeah, we're still in that stagewhere we're like trying to
build an audience.
Right, right, well, I'mexpecting a big commission out
of this thing.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
So I've already put a down payment on a lake house.
It's a matter of how many boatdocks I'm putting on the thing.
What do?

Speaker 1 (41:36):
you call it?
What is that word?
You call it when your employeesstart getting to the point
where they cost Validating?
Yeah, I'll let you know whenyou're validated.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Right, right, yeah, I'm still in the hole as it is.
Yeah, so work-life balanceobviously is tough and indeed
like having, like, say, twofull-time jobs and you know,
that's not unusual, I don'tthink for most people Right, and
then you throw kids in there,and then you throw kids sports
in there, and then your marriageand vacations and whatever it
is, and so and again, this isthe flexibility that you have in

(42:12):
sales is that I've alwaysprided myself again on.
If there's something I need tobe at or go to or whatever it is
, whatever time of day, it isLike my son, my middle son or my
middle child.
He had new student enrollmentat UNL on Tuesday, and then he
screwed up and didn't sign upfor that soon enough, so it was
advising.
He couldn't do his advising forhis classes that day, so it was
on Monday, and so I was downhere in Lincoln I live in Omaha

(42:34):
and Gretna and so but I was downhere on Monday for the
afternoon, and then I was downhere on Tuesday for the full day
and I wanted to be there,though that's the kind of thing
that I would not miss for mykids if I could help it, and so
I pride myself in not missingthings that I need to do.
That's awesome.
But then, on the flip side, areyou pulling out the laptop on

(42:55):
Saturday?
Are you what I used to?
So when I talk to the newerproducers on building a book of
business, right, I'm like youshould be all day during the day
, as much as you can, in theoffice gathering information,
seeing what we talk about,hearing what we talk about.
You know you're learningthrough osmosis during the day,

(43:15):
but you also need to find, digout companies that you were
going to approach or prospect.
Right, and I'm like.
So what I did when I wasbuilding my book is I would
learn during the day, I would dowhatever, but at night, after
the family would go to bed, soput the kids to bed, wife falls
asleep, I would pop up my laptopand I would work from like

(43:36):
whatever 10 to midnight, and Ido that three or four nights a
week and so.
So, yeah, I'm giving away sometime during the day from work to
do, to do family stuff orwhatever it is, but if you're
going to do this job right,you're working more than 40
hours a week You're putting inthe time that you need to.
I'm sure you've dealt with thisof people who like that

(43:57):
flexibility lifestyle andeventually abuse that
flexibility lifestyle and theycan't figure out why they're not
getting ahead and it's like,how many hours did you work last
week?
But it's always our fault.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Right.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Right, and you told me it was going to work.
I'd have you said I could golfduring work and it's like, yeah,
man, but not three days a week,Like that's you know, and golf
can be used for for business forsure.
But you and your three jackassbuddies go and play in Tiburon
on on Tuesday afternoon.
That's not that's not helpinganybody, you know, and so you've

(44:31):
got to kind of figure that out.
So that's kind of what I'vedone is it's like I find the
quiet times when my familydoesn't need me and I'm a night
owl anyway, so I can handle thatanyway.
So I'll work at night.
But you've got to kind of finda way to fill in those gaps,
because you can't live theflexibility lifestyle of kind of
jet setting around and golfingand doing all this kind of stuff

(44:53):
if you're not finding anothertime to put in that work that
you absolutely have got to do.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, we get very few weekends off.
This weekend is one of them.
No kids, no sports, wow.
So our date night, or our dateday tomorrow, is me yesterday
realizing I have actually aninsurance audit for Marie Custom
Homes general liability why youdon't have to do those, what
are you talking about?
And a blueprint that I need todo.
And so I texted Megan yesterdayand it's weird that at this age

(45:20):
, which most people from theoutside looking in would think
that I'm successful and don'twork and it's just because I
like what you're saying, justbecause I'm not in the office,
you know, 18 hours a day doesn'tmean I'm not working, for sure.
But our date tomorrow is we'regoing to wake up, work out and
then go work somewhere, right,and so our break from work is to
just go work somewhere else.
So we'll go to like venue andsit in the back or big red, you

(45:43):
know, and sit there and just tohave some iced tea and work till
we get our shit done.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
But that's our idea.
God, that is just romantic.
Just the thought of you sittingat a venue holding hands under
the table while you do a generalliability.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
But it's so hard to do when, like you, your phone
rings every five minutes, if notmore, and I have a million
things going on.
And then it's summer, so you'redealing with the kids kids,
sports during the day, kids athome.
It's so hard to do certainthings like audits, where you're
getting into QuickBooks,pulling reports, making sure you
know what I mean, stuff whereit needs your full, undivided

(46:23):
attention.
So it's like it's a relief toknow that you're going to
dedicate a day where yourphone's not going to be ringing,
your kids aren't going to bescreaming, and just to be able
to do it, and it just gives youa lot of relief knowing that.
Okay, okay, I can put thataside for now.
I don't need to worry about itduring the workday and we can
just do it this weekend.
And so she has a lot of thatbusy work too, where she's
client-facing and she has peoplewaiting on her.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
So think she actually likes it when I'm like hey,
tomorrow we're just going towork, yeah.
It sucks to say, but it's likeyeah, but it'll feel good.
It'll feel so good when you'redone with it.
It does.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
God, it's the old mental checklist has a few less,
it makes Monday a little rough.
Yeah, when you get to likeTuesday, you think it should be
like Thursday or Friday, becauseyou didn't have that, you know.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
But yeah, well, you need to.
It's like if you've got threehours blocked in your day
tomorrow for working.
It's like after two and a halfhours, that's when you pull this
little bottle of tequila, startsipping on it, and then you
kind of roll right into theevening and find a way to make
it a, make it a weekend.
One way or another.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
So we did a.
It was kind of going off topic,but when I was going through
some health issues and my dadwas going through his health
issues, he needed our attendance.
A lot like unexpectedly Fridayeight o'clock, we'd be out with
the company and he needs usthere.
So it just worked out perfectly.
That was a good time to detox.
I've done every year for abouteight years, 10 years.
I've done like a one monthdetox just for the fun of it,

(47:46):
usually at the end of summer,like when you've ran your body
ragged lots of sun, lots ofwater, sports, drinking all day.
I do a one month detox and whenmy dad got sick and when they
thought I was, they thought Ihad MS.
It was just ended up, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
I remember that.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
But anyways, I did.
My chiropractor took me asideand said I want to ask you
something.
I'm like what's that?
And he's like I want to ask yousomething.
I'm like what's that?
And he's like I want to ask afavor of you and it's will you
stop drinking?
For two months.
And I was like, yeah, noproblem, I just needed you to
ask, no problem.
So I called Megan.
I'm like I'm going to do adetox.
She's like I'm going to do itwith you.
And so we went 13 months noalcohol at all.
And then that ended on my dad'scelebration of life.

(48:25):
We popped some champagne withfamily and then I started
drinking beer again, but noliquor.
And so we went a year almostjust beer, no liquor.
And then three, about three anda half months ago, march
Madness Sunday, I decided that Iwas going to do another detox
just for the fun of it.
Again, we were just drinkingfor March Madness for like two
or three days straight.
I was like God, it's not reallygiving me a buzz or anything

(48:47):
and I'm getting hungover, and sojust detox.
So we're like three and a halfmonths in other than just
sipping this tequila.
But yeah, it makes it a littlebit harder to go to restaurants.
People are starting to catch onwith the NA and like these
Junies that I drink and we drinkhop water and all this other
kind of fun stuff that they'vecame out with.
But it's less appealing for usnow to want to go to like Big

(49:11):
Red or venue, because you knowyou'd use like what you said we
usually just sit there and drinka beer and watch TV and work
and you'd sit there for five orsix hours and it really didn't
feel like you were working butyou feel so accomplished.
But now when you're notdrinking it's a little hard
because a lot of places you justhave iced tea or some of them
will have an NA but they don'thave, you know, like NA,
seltzers and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
It's just weird, because I have that OCD tendency
of always having to havesomething in my hand, and so I
think that's why I need to detox.
You know, if I'm drinking abeer, I always got to be
drinking that beer, yeah, whichis a bad habit.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, so yeah, no, I'm, I could stand to use some
detox.
I think we all could.
Yeah, I mean, I'm fully toxed.
I feel like right now I coulduse the detox.
But but yeah, I mean it's funnyhow, and not funny, it's
whatever it is.
It's like, as an adult, howintegrated alcohol is with
social socializing.
My son he got big into golf orhe got into golf.

(50:05):
I got him into golf about fouryears ago.
I knew he was, I knew he neededsomething and kind of pushed
him toward golf and he ended uploving it, taking off on it.
I played on the high schoolgolf team and we went out
golfing one night.
I think it was like cause for awhile.
We live right by Tiburon golfcourse in Omaha and I we would

(50:27):
go on Saturday or Sunday nightwhen kind of after tea times are
over.
Go there, just go up to thedesk, be like, hey, can we get a
quick nine in, right, and it's,you know, saturday evening.
So we go and get the car.
I'm like I'm going to go run inand get a drink and I go in and
get a drink.
What do you want?
He wanted whatever.
So I come out and put it in.
He's like what are you drinking?
And I'm like laughed.
He's like you're drinking whenyou're golfing and I just

(50:48):
thought it was so funny becauseit's alcohol and golf it's so
intertwined.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
I didn't know.
You golfed without drinkingRight Exactly.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
It's like one of my favorite lines from the Simpsons
.
He's like fishing withoutdrinking.
That's like hunting withoutdrinking.
But yeah, alcohol is sointegrated and I I'm like that
is such a funny perspective thathe thought it was weird that
there was going to be that I wasgoing to have alcohol on the
golf course.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
You know, what's crazy is you could speak all day
about this, going through thatlike 13 months, and then now
doing it again.
It is crazy how much society isfocused around alcohol and even
music.
Like, if you listen to music, Iput a Facebook post up about
this like a year or two ago.
It's like I had turned on mykids had turned on a station

(51:35):
that I never usually listened toand it was going between
country and modern and TaylorSwift, and it was like every
song was the plot was aboutsomething different.
So it was either about, like,heartbreak or love or
celebration, but the onecommonality was it was all about
drinking.
So it was like, if you haveyour heartbreak, drink right,

(51:56):
right, oh, you're in love forhaving a drink.
If you're partying, go drink.
It was all every song had aboutalcohol.
It was all over you.
I was like no wonder why it'singrained in your subconscious
like that.
Like, if you're hanging outwith friends, have a beer.
If you're going golfing, have abeer.
If you're sad, go out and havea beer with friends.
You know, if you want anythingand everything, subconsciously

(52:18):
you're just always thinking, andso it is tough.
It is tough for that firstmonth when you're detoxing and
you're going out with yourfriends and you're going out
with the company and stuff.
It's so hard to going out withyour friends and you're going
out with the company and stuff.
It's so hard to to not onlyreprogram yourself but to have
to explain it over and over andover.
It's exhausting.
Yeah, because it is.
It's just so normal that youjust have a beer.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Well, it's normal to the point that if you're out
with that group, someone's goingto be like what the hell Matt
Like?
Why are you not Everybody.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Why are you not pounding beers, man?
And you know what else is weirdabout it is nobody can just
accept the fact that you're justdoing the detox and we just got
hounded by some baseballparents the other day Like
what's the real reason?
It's like we're literally justdoing a detox.
Like for what?
Are you trying to lose weight?
It's like I mean sure, ifthat's a consequence of not
drinking, yeah, but literallyjust challenging myself to do a

(53:08):
fucking detox, I don't know why.
Do I need a reason?
Right, you know everybody'slike oh, why you got?
Do you have an alcohol problem?
Do you have?
Does Megan not want you todrink?
It's like, dude, I can just notwant to drink.
To not want to drink, yeah, itgets frustrating.
Yeah, the radar goes up.
It it does.
But I get it too.
I would react the same way.
It's like wait, you didn't justdecide out of nowhere to stop
drinking, like something had tohave happened.

(53:30):
But no, no.
No, well, that's good for you,great for you.
Yeah, it gets easier with time.
I don't doubt that.
I have no clue how long I'mgoing to go.
Well, actually I'm drinkingtequila right now.
Yeah, it literally ended.
Five minutes fun we were goingto drink.
And so last weekend, when Iknew that we were going to do
that, tom, we had baseballparents over to the house and

(53:52):
Tom was there and he's like doyou care if I whip out one of
your tequilas?
And I was like, no, we used todo fun Fridays, like every other
Friday, and we'd go remote andjust kind of bounce around and

(54:14):
just with all the new hires andthe COVID and all that stuff, we
kind of lost traction and we'rejust trying to get back to
doing that.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yeah, having fun on Fridays yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, it's just fun to sit, have a beer, talk, talk.
But we have, I told you aboutit, you're coming.
Brandy booked Tom for his, sohis birthday is Tuesday and his
god, what was it?
His 16th anniversary.
Shannon, with our company, wason last week, and so, rather
than just getting him like thenormal card and just oh, thank

(54:45):
you, we were like let's dosomething special.
Tom's all about the moments.
He doesn't care about the gifts, he's about the moments.
So we're like let's dosomething special for him.
And so she booked the grouptherapy bike ride downtown for
today, from two to four.
So I'm excited that you'regoing to come so that way we can
sit around and talk some more.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah, well, that'll be an instant detox.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
I feel like you do it , I suppose.
Oh yeah, alcohol is a part ofit.
Yeah, why would we do that?
I just imagine being out out inthe heat peddling anything.
It just made me start sweatingright now.
So you know how they have thedifferent options.
Like you have one thateverybody pedals and contributes
, and then they have the otherone that has, like, I think, a
person peddling.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yeah, yeah, but you can't, but you're peddling, but
it's really going nowhere, right.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Yeah, that's why everybody's been complaining
about the needed work.
That and I'm like guys, wedon't have a destination in mind
, like, even if we don't move,we're doing what we wanted to do
.
Tom just wants everybodytogether having a good time
talking, so but yeah, with thatI've been.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks for taking time out ofyour day.
We'll continue this on the biketrolley downtown.
Shout out to group therapy.

(55:44):
Hopefully you have fun.
I've never done it before.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
So no, me, neither, Me, neither.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
It would be.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
It would be new for me as well.
Awesome, but I appreciate youhaving me on.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
This was a blast, I mean you're a great person,
great business owner and excitedto hear how we sound.
Yeah, absolutely Everybody.
Thank you for joining us onthis episode of stay modern with
Murray.
Whether you're an inspiringbusiness owner, a nonprofit
leader or just someone lookingto make a difference, stay
modern, stay inspired and keeppushing the boundaries of what's
possible.
Until next time.
This is Matt Murray with StayModern with Murray.
Thank you.