March 23, 2025 • 53 mins
Elinor Moshe, four-time author and podcast host, shares her transformative journey from outward success to spiritual awakening and authentic self-discovery. Despite accolades and achievements, Elinor realized she didn't exist in her own reality until recognizing the "devouring mother" archetype in her life triggered profound change.
• Understanding the devouring mother archetype and its impact on personal agency
• Why conventional healing models often fail to address deep spiritual wounds
• Emotions as essential compasses for navigating life and reconnecting with self
• The importance of protecting your energy and recognizing toxic relationships
• Finding the right spiritual guides and modalities for your unique healing journey
• How external success can mask internal emptiness and disconnection from self
• Breaking free from the distorted patriarchy and "bro culture" mentality
• The courage required to deconstruct your identity and rebuild authentically
• Recognizing when you're living someone else's life versus your authentic path
• The two most important questions in life: "Who and what am I?"
Connect with Elinor through the links in the episode description to learn more about her work and spiritual guidance.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, this is Steel Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I am very excited to introduceyou to our guest today.
We have Eleanor Moshe on theline with us.
She is a co founder of truth inyou and a four times author and
podcast host of deconstructingyou.
Eleanor, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
A pleasure and privilege to be here and I'm
very much looking forward to theconversation.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So, eleanor, I would love for you to introduce
yourself to the listeners andtell them about your journey and
how you chartered your path,because I think it's going to
really be impactful for thelisteners to hear how you've
gone through.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Had the career that most people would keel over for.
They would have done anythingto get into the rooms and trade
places as to where I was, andthere I was, with a growing void
in the heart space and thisemptiness, despite the accolades
rolling in, podcast was on 150plus thousand downloads, four
(01:04):
times selling books andinternational collaborations,
and the list just goes on and on.
This award, that award, my ownbusiness left, corporate things
that people just work so hard toachieve.
And I got there.
Yet once I actually looked atthe truth of the situation and
realized what was going on, onceI actually looked at the truth
of the situation and realizedwhat was going on, everything
(01:26):
was on fire.
Nothing was actually stronglybuilt on any foundations that
could sustain.
Things were crumbling down allaround me.
And once I started seeing thetruth of the situation,
triggered by moments ofawakening first in 2021, second
in 2023, which I'm happy toshare they started showing me
the truth of the situation, andthat was that I'm not even.
(01:48):
I don't even exist in my ownreality.
And here I was thinking that Ido exist and I'm making
independent, strong independentdecisions because I'm a female
and I can do what I want.
No, no, not when you've neverbeen you, not when your true
self has been locked out of yourlife into the shadows for
decades, not when you've comeinto this lifetime with the
(02:09):
karmic template ofdisempowerment.
And the list goes on and on.
So it was triggered.
The deconstruction phase wastriggered by I was overseas I
was 32, with my parents overseas.
I haven't been overseas withfriends since I was 21, and that
should say a few things.
And I was going to dinner withmy cousin, which appeared
(02:32):
problematic to the mother andI'll say maternal impactor,
because it's not necessarily thefemale who is the birth giver
in this life which is the onecarrying the wounded.
It's bigger than that.
We need to look further thanthe physical person in front of
us.
Of course, they're veryimpactful and it was a very
ordinary request.
(02:52):
I'm going to go out to dinnerwith my cousin, who I haven't
seen.
She did not quote unquote.
Allow me to walk 600 metersaround the corner to go to the
restaurant from where we werestaying.
There was crying, there werehysterics.
I had to ask my cousin to pickme up and I'll explain later
because there was no leaving theapartment and the intensity of
that.
That's not the first time thatthat's happened.
That's just an expression ofthe manifestation of my entire
(03:16):
adult life and teen life.
And it's not until you're outof the environment, which A no
one sees and no one hears of andno one validates your
experience, and until you're outof the country even to get a
bird's eye perspective as towhat's happening here, then you
don't know what's going on.
And I was sharing that with mythen best friend, now partner,
(03:37):
as to what's happening, and heintroduced me to the concept of
the devouring mother and Iquickly looked it up because I'm
like this is the resonance,devouring mother.
And I quickly looked it upbecause I'm like this is the
resonance.
And as soon as I read it,everything just sunk.
It explained why I haven'texisted in my own reality and I
thought I existed at home.
I thought that I was existingin my career.
My home life was then mirroredinto my career as well.
(04:00):
So I stopped existing in theonly avenue which I thought I
had any agency.
I did not, because what does apattern do?
Pattern does as pattern is, itrepeats itself.
So the wounding was then beingexacerbated in professional
arenas.
But going back to the moment ofawakening that night, I cried
from my soul.
I have never, ever, cried likethat.
(04:22):
It was a devastating cry.
And I looked myself in themirror and I said this can't be
it for me to have, quote,unquote, so many positive
attributes and to not even havethe agency to leave the door.
Leave through the door when Iwant to.
There were other moments thattriggered that, but I returned
and the healing started.
(04:43):
And when?
When the conscious forces I'mparaphrasing this quote by Jung,
but when the conscious,conscious forces has have fried
themselves, the unconsciousforces will come to aid.
And that was the moment ofconviction.
That was the moment when Ichose myself.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I honored my own existence for the first time in
decades you mentioned thedevouring mother and I had a
moment to google it.
It's, it's a, it's it's alittle bit intense.
Like I mean it's a lot intenseand I think that this also
speaks to codependency and like,like, like, severe codependency
(05:20):
.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout the devouring mother and
what that is?
And then I also want to hear,and I want to commend you for
recognizing what was happening,because that is like seeing
through a dense fog and likeactually waking up and being
like hold on a second.
This is not what I want.
(05:40):
So, devouring mother for thelisteners, a little bit more,
all right.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So Carolyn Miss, who's well known for her work
with Jungian archetypes and shewrites a lot about this and
trains as well she describes itas the devouring mother.
She consumes her childrenpsychologically and emotionally
(06:08):
and instills in them deep rootedfeelings of guilt at leaving
her or even the notion ofbecoming independent.
So the whole notion ofindependence is completely
knocked out of a child who hasbeen devoured because, for many
reasons, the mother does notseem that she can have safety
and security on her own accord.
So this then, how does ittranslate into behavior?
It seems like lovingly selflessbehavior.
I will do everything for youexcept give you the one thing
(06:30):
that you need, which is your ownindependence, which is the most
healthy expression that you canhave in a relationship.
It's this.
I will do more and more andmore for you.
So you have this enmeshmentdynamic where you're not sure.
You're not sure anymore whereshe starts and where you end,
and where you start and whereshe ends.
It's the complete blurring ofall boundaries and you find
yourself as this parentifiedchild who has carried too much
(06:54):
responsibility that neverbelonged to them and lives and
foregoes dreams, foregoes theirown life, because the guilt is
so deep-rooted and it manifestsin subtle ways, in deep ways,
that any expression ofindependence creates so much
fear in the maternal impactormother in this case that getting
(07:18):
out of there, you sometimesneed to go cosmically deep to
find the root cause that oncethat is removed, that
destabilizes everything and youcan't give shallow advice to
people in these situations, likeset up a boundary, it's like,
well, I did actually think ofthat, or just do this, or just
do that.
That advice is very flat and itdoes not account for the
(07:39):
complexities, the difficultiesthat parentified sons and
daughters find themselves in,because you know the image that
comes to mind with a devouringmother it's like a snake.
The more that you try towriggle out of it, the more that
the pressure gets tighter.
And not everyone makes it aswell.
So it is an archetype which isfascinating and it starts to
(08:02):
explain and validates.
That's what it did for me.
It started to validate my ownexperience, because people will
not validate in society,especially when you have the
outward success.
It's like but you're competent,but you have executive
functioning well, it's like,well, no, I don't.
There's many faculties that areoffline, and once I started
lifting the hood as to what wasactually playing out in my split
(08:24):
reality.
It it was, you know, that Elmomeme where it's sitting in the
fire.
That was me.
It's like everything is on fireand nothing is right, because
I've never existed in my ownreality, as do many children who
take on the incorrect energeticexchange.
Energy flows, rabbi, somethingCharles Schwab I'm not I'm not
(08:47):
pronouncing that correctly, I'mvery bad at quoting people but
he talks about the concept thatenergy flows from parent to
child.
It does not flow the other way.
And think about it.
The parents they decided tohave a child and if they didn't
have, decide to have that childout of pure love, so they
brought it into it as aretirement plan.
(09:08):
They brought it into it to fixtheir marriage.
They brought in a child to, youknow, create purpose where
there was otherwise.
Avoid.
All of this already hasexpectations on the child.
And then there's differentarchetypes, that, of course, the
feminine also plays out intheir distortions, but this was
(09:29):
the one that that should excusemy coughing.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I'm like it's the season and I'm getting a little
raspy.
Um, I, first I want to.
I want to take a moment andrecognize you for being able to
see in the moment, like oh mygosh, this is me.
And then also recognizing likeokay, I have to do something
here, and we I mean in ourpre-chat, like we had talked a
(09:55):
little bit about like howdifficult that is, because it's
it feels like, and I I thinkwhat I had said was like it's
like walking into, you're in adense fog and it's very hard to
see your way out of somethinglike that, because this is all
you've known your whole life.
Some people never realize thatthey go their whole lives
(10:28):
permeating this model and thenthey further bring this model
along into their own familiesand their own children.
So you have, at this point,successfully severed that line
and are, I'm sure, still workingthrough it, because it's a
daily thing, it's not somethingthat happens overnight.
So I do want to point that outtoo For the listeners who are
listening to this conversationand being like, oh my gosh, wait
(10:49):
.
I think that this soundsfamiliar, or this, like
suffocating feeling, soundsfamiliar.
That's how I used to think ofit as a suffocating feeling.
It's those shoulds, and youmight recognize it as you're
listening to us talk about this,but then you also are unsure of
like, well, how would I evennavigate out of this?
(11:11):
Because it's not as simple aslike, oh, just set some
boundaries, you'll be fine.
Okay, good luck.
That's not really how it works,because it's like time,
consistency, practice, years ofinternal work, really like it
takes time and it's a dailything.
So you, you had this moment andit was a triggering moment
where you're like I need to dosomething and then it from there
(11:33):
.
I think, from what we've talkedabout, you basically tore it
all down.
You kind of threw everythingaway that you were working on.
So I want the listeners to hearthis journey of yours that you
went through, because this isit's intense, but look at where
you are today.
So, yes, please continue.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
If you're in prison, you don't go to the prison guard
or the chief warden whateveryou want to call them and say
hello, can I please have myfreedom back?
Can I please have 10% of myfreedom back, like, I'm in
prison here and I don't know howI got here.
I also didn't do anything wrong.
Prison here and I don't knowhow I got here.
I also didn't do anything wrong, but can you grant me some?
What are they going to say?
Yeah, sure, here's the key tothe front gate and let everyone
(12:11):
else out whilst you're with it.
It's not how it works.
You don't negotiate with you,don't negotiate back for your
power.
You go on a full reclamationjourney and you don't know where
it's going to take you.
A few things happened beforehandit was last year, yeah, as I
was turning 32 through again,universal coincidence.
(12:31):
There's no such thing ascoincidence, sorry
synchronicities.
I had an astrology reading andI thought she was going to come
and validate everything and justtell me what I already know.
Eleanor, you're successful andit's just a matter of time.
And you just got to keep onhustling.
And you just.
Eleanor, you're successful andit's just a matter of time.
And you just got to keep onhustling and you, just, you know
, wake up at 5am.
Like you know, the distortedpatriarchy the bro way of living
(12:54):
.
And the first thing she said islike your mother wound is the
highest point on your chart,which it is.
And I'm like how do you knowthis?
And she was like she was justdropping truth bombs after truth
bombs and I spun for 10 daysbecause what I was being invited
to do was commit identitysuicide.
And that is the most fearfulthing, because even then she's
(13:15):
like this construction stuffyou're doing, it's done.
You're going to beunrecognizable in five months
from this point.
So we're recording in December,unrecognizable in five months
from this point.
So we're recording in decemberthe you know new astrological
cycle next year, march, april,around that time you're going to
be unrecognizable.
I already am.
I don't need to wait for thatpoint in time.
And all of this was just.
(13:36):
This was elicited so much fearbecause what I was being invited
to do was something that thereis no concept, no support, no
idea how to do it, nothing.
That there is no concept, nosupport, no idea how to do it,
nothing.
It's just staring into a voidand the void stares back at you.
So what did I do?
I shut it down.
I shut it down completely.
And she said when I go overseas, a conversation will happen
(13:57):
with mother and I'm like I don'tbelieve you.
We've never conversed aboutthis and even when we had it's I
should just talk to a wall.
I had that energy about me andof course the conversation did
happen.
So I shut that whole model downbecause it did not fit into my
version of reality.
(14:18):
But of course it was beingseeded in my unconscious and
when the conscious forces frythemselves I'm paraphrasing a
Jung quote here the unconsciousforces come to end.
So I, a few months after comingback, got myself into position
and I'm like I don't even knowwhat I need anymore.
But I do need help here.
I don't even know what's goingon.
(14:40):
Astrology was the firstonboarding language which
started framing my directexperience of reality and what
was happening.
That has never been donebeforehand, and we started
working with shadow archetypes.
It was phenomenal of anexperience.
It was challenging to see yourown self dead straight in the
eye week after week and excavate, just smash, smash through
(15:03):
everything.
And I was phenomenal with thisand I still am.
I have an appetite for this.
I love this.
I, you know, I love theunderworld and the heavy, but
you need to balance it outbecause you can't live there.
But I have a large capacity forall this stuff and she was
completely surprised that Icould go through this stuff but
(15:23):
also had my then best friend,now partner, as a support,
because going through any ofthis alone is it's so.
Astrology was a first languagewhich started giving frameworks
and models to my experience whycertain things happened, why
they did not happen.
So this year is my Plutoretrograde.
Pluto is a planet of theunderworld, so sex, death and
(15:46):
transformation, and it's been inretrograde, so going backwards
all my life.
But this year has been the yearof corrections.
And what will it do?
It will build you up to be asbig as it needs to, and then
it's going to topple you downand even, just from a career
perspective, the brand that Ihad built, the accolades of
(16:11):
success.
I remember expressingdissatisfaction with everything
and people were like but why?
You built this, you did this.
You know the sunk cost fallacy.
It's like just because I builtit, do I have to maintain it now
for the rest of my life?
All of this started coming upand it took around nine months
before I could say I can't getrid, not rid of this.
But I need to put this to rest,at least whilst other parts are
(16:31):
still being mourned, grieved,coming to light.
Even it was not.
The fear was all encompassing.
It was conversations uponconversations, and I also
started then looking formodalities to help access the
unconscious kundalini awakeningbreathwork, 9d breathwork, reiki
not reiki, but chakra clearing,meridian grid alignment you
(16:52):
name the modalities.
I've just about been there aswell, because we need the right
tool for the right job.
There were things that were sodeep within that I needed to
access, and every one of thosehelped.
There was no, not, not.
Any model I don't believe iscomplete when it comes to
deconstructing self.
We need the right tool for theright job at the right time,
(17:14):
with where you are and thatchanges.
You know, could I have seen ashaman as soon as I started this
?
Absolutely not because Iwouldn't have had the intention,
the conviction to believe in it, but when?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I was ready for it, it was powerful.
I think that that's veryimportant there, what you just
said, because people will andmyself included, if you have a
sense so my journey was a littlebit less intense maybe, but,
like, the elements are there andthere's a lot of through lines
from what you went through.
And what I want to point out topeople is sometimes it's not a
(17:48):
huge splash moment where you'relike, oh my gosh.
You know, sometimes it's smallinklings of like something's not
quite right here.
Now, the other element to thisis you might go down a path of
like, well, something's notright, I'm going to try out, you
know, visualizations, or I'mgoing to try out meditating, or
I'm going to try out that evenlike, and you're trying to like
(18:08):
tap into different things.
And what Eleanor is sayingthat's key here is that not
everything's going to work inthe moment.
Sometimes you have to build onyour skills for being able to do
this kind of work for yourselfand you have to build on your
knowledge base, because youcan't dive into step 15 and then
come back and be.
It's not possible becauseyou're not going to really
(18:31):
understand and appreciate it.
Now, my journey throughrecognizing where I was in my
life and recognizing when thingsweren't really in flow and like
what I was going to be doing.
It took.
I want to say it was like ajourney of like 15 or 16 years
that I've been on, because itstarted when I was about 25.
(18:51):
And I started to kind ofrecognize things and I was like
I know that there's somethingnot right here.
I need to like kind ofreevaluate.
And it's been like an ongoingthing for majority of my adult
life, like making sure that I amin tune with myself and
actually being authentic.
And what Eleanor said earlier,too, is that I am in tune with
myself and actually beingauthentic.
And what Eleanor said earliertoo, is that, like a lot of us
(19:12):
think that we are beingourselves and we're, you know,
showing up as ourselves everyday, but we're actually not.
And what I want the list I wantthe listeners to reflect on as
they're listening to this is howmuch of your life is a should.
That's how I think about itquite a bit.
What are you doing right now?
That's I should do this, andthen really, if that should is
(19:33):
there and dominant, then itmight not really be something
that you really want to do, andthat's where you have to look at
your internal feelings and takestock Like a big thing that I
did and I started doing it whenI was 25.
And I've done it now for allthis time.
I just turned 41.
So I've been doing it for likehalf my life now was.
(19:53):
I will take a minute and I'lltake an internal inventory and
say, like Am I happy with thisright now?
Like, do I feel good about this?
For the first half of my life, alot of what I did was I need to
do this, I have to show up tothis, I should be doing this, I
should be the good daughter, Ishould be the executive, I
should graduate from collegebecause I should get a job and I
(20:14):
need to be in corporate.
I need to do this and I need tomake money.
It just snowballed andsnowballed and snowballed and
flash forward.
I got to 37.
So a little bit later than you,I cut to 37.
And I had this like explosion,epiphany moment where I've done
(20:35):
very well in my career myprofessional career and I was
very proud of my trajectory andhow much money I was making and
I was.
I have my husband and my kidsand we have a beautiful family
and this and that.
But this job was like killingme and it was basically like I
felt it starting to drain awayfrom my life and my soul.
(20:57):
I was on this particularproject and my kids were all
pretty small, they were likefour and five years old and I
was working.
At that point, I want to say,like it was like a 60 or 70 hour
week, like it was a tough,tough job that I was doing, and
three weeks of that passed and Icame out of the end of it and
(21:18):
it was like a punch in mystomach because my kids all look
big.
My husband was not happy.
He's like what the hell's goingon?
Like you can't do that, youcan't disappear for three weeks
into work, like.
And I was crushed.
And that was a huge triggeringmoment for me because for most
of my life I was like you haveto love your work, do your job,
(21:38):
do your job, you're invested inall this.
And then all of a sudden I waslike well, wait, no, like this
can't be it.
Like this, this can't be it.
I can't be living to work Likethat's not what life is.
And it started me on a journeyof self discovery.
And that's actually how thepodcast started, because I had
(22:00):
this moment and the originalpodcast, the first season one
was myself and my cousin and shewas on board with me as a
co-host and I kept saying I saidto her I was like I have to do
this, like I keep having thislike sense of urgency to start a
podcast, and so it took me acouple of months to kind of get
up and running and once welaunched, I had this and I get
(22:24):
it now as I talk about it in mysoul.
My soul gets excited when Italk about the podcast and when
I think back on those early dayswhen we started and it's
amazing how this one moment fromthis one job that I had pushed
me towards well, let me see howto do a podcast.
(22:45):
And I Googled it.
Now, listen, this is the realinteresting thing and I haven't
talked about this in a while, soI'm actually kind of excited to
talk about this.
The interesting moments thatkind of all lined up was I was
like I'm going to do thispodcast.
I Googled how do you podcast?
That's literally how I startedhow do I start a podcast.
And I came across a podcasterwho had a podcast guide and I
(23:07):
was like, oh, let me look atthis.
But then when I started lookingat all her work, I was like, oh
wait, she doesn't just podcast,she does other stuff too.
What else does she do?
And I started looking into herand she did coaching for
spiritual coaching and guidance.
I ended up signing up for thishuge package with her and doing
this live online course with herand Eleanor.
(23:29):
When I tell you, the journeythat I went down and the
spiritual journey and theawakening and finding me again
was so powerful and impactfulthat it has changed my entire
life for the better, that it haschanged my entire life for the
(23:49):
better, like it has shiftedeverything for me and my family
and put us on an entirelydifferent path than what I was
on, and one of the most powerfulmeditations that I did in the
early days which, by the way,when I started this journey and
this work, every time I didsomething that tapped into like
the center and the soul, I wouldbe like crying into like the
center and the soul.
I would be like crying, likehysterically, and I don't know
(24:11):
if you had the same experience,but it was like.
It was like a release right.
Like every time I tapped intoanother like artery, basically
of my soul.
It was like spilling forth andI remember telling the other
people in the course I was likeis everyone else?
Like sobbing all the time, likewhat is that?
You had the same experience.
I'm going to pause there for aminute, but it was like a
release.
(24:31):
It was this massive release asI was going on this path.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That's amazing, just your energy when you're talking
about.
It's wonderful to say, it'swonderful to experience with
what you're saying beforehandand I'll answer.
I'll mention that which tiesinto the response to this
question.
But conventional models dealwith only the mind.
It's like you just reprogramyour mind and all of that stuff.
It's like just affirm your wayout of this.
It's like there are somesituations which were not born
(24:57):
in the 3D reality.
Therefore, I cannot affirm myway out of it.
I cannot just hustle and grindmy way out of it.
These problems were establishedoutside of the ego sitting here
having a conversation.
They were born outside of the3D and they need to be resolved
outside of the 3D.
So most conventional models arequite shallow and they work for
(25:21):
shallow problems because theyoffer shallow solutions.
But when you have a deepproblem you need deeper
solutions and that's where thespiritual realm, which is not
something out there likespirituality, is reality.
This podcast is a spiritualexperience that we're having and
that was a big frustration forme, because I did the journaling
(25:44):
, I did the affirmations, I didthe vision board, I tried to do
all of that and it wasmechanical and it fell on its
face.
But also through the past liferegressions that my partner and
I deliver on each other.
Yep, you need to dream.
Of course you do.
But my imagination faculty hasbeen atrophied because of the
situations that I find myself in, so of course I could not get
(26:07):
the imagination muscle started.
Or the car it was not going towork because it has been damaged
and atrophied.
It's offline, so of course Icannot dream.
So only recently that facultyhas started coming back online
with the emotional attachment,because for me, emotion,
everyone is emotional, but forme emotions are my compass and
(26:28):
to not have those, of course Ican't orient myself in the world
.
So when I had a catharsis of theheart, realizing that I have
one, it was tears, it was, itwas all sorts of emotions and it
was even learning to honortheir place, because the
distorted patriarchy will knockthat out of you, making you
perceive it as a weakness.
(26:49):
But without it you can't orientyourself in reality.
And in my recent journey to theunderworld, my guide, call it
like the ceo the general managerof the place was furious with
me because it's like you'vefucked up so many times because
we can't get to you, how do theyget to us through emotions?
(27:10):
So when you feel the rage inthe moment.
That's your compass, andconventional models completely
disregard the body and when wedrop into what our body is
carrying, experiencing for thefirst, realize that or awakening
a hand with the body was.
The body's not here, it's stuckon some other timeline, it's
(27:31):
not present with you.
So, yeah, we think that I'mhere right now.
I can move my hand, that thebody is here.
It ain't here.
So how can you possibly move inthe world, live your best life,
all of these things that arebeing marketed and and you know,
sold and packaged in a $99course to you?
None of that is happening untilyour emotional body, your
(27:52):
physical body, your spiritualbody and your mental body are
not here right now.
Now, this doesn't mean that youneed to be 100% whole in order
to manifest, in order to liveyour life.
No, it's not if, when and thenI'll do it.
No, but to experience thetotality of your birthright and
to connect to your godhood,that's what it does require.
(28:14):
So emotions are imperative, andI've learned to honor them, and
when they're and I've hadmoments where they're all at the
door wanting to come out it'slike well, I don't know how to
get you out either, but it's awhole language and landscape
that has been atrophied and itis evil.
Doesn't even cut it as to whathas happened to the divine
(28:35):
feminine and the divinemasculine, but that's a
conversation in continuity.
So emotions for me have beenthe first time I cried after a
very long time and I did it bymyself.
I was so, I was so proud, I wasso relieved.
I'm like this feels good andthat starts bringing other
things online that I didn't knowI have access to, and it keeps
(28:56):
on blooming from there.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
It's interesting because for a really long time I
used to say it was like a joke,but at the same time it wasn't
a joke and now I'm like I trynot to say this anymore.
I used to say I cry in theshower like a winner.
Basically, hide your emotions,Do what you need to do all day
long Hustle.
We keep joking about it, wekeep referring to bro culture
(29:21):
and I just want to say for thelisteners what we mean when we
say that.
If you haven't heard me saybefore, bro culture is like that
hustle, you have to hustle.
You got to get up at 5 am andthis and that and you got to be
like you know cold calling anddming and you know it's not
authentic.
It's like just you're justbeating a bat against a brick
wall until something breaks.
(29:42):
You know like that's not real,like that's not the path you
want to go down.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
before you continue, I'll just add that spirit
doesn't like it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So throughout past life, spirit.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
From a spirit's perspective, we're all just
cosmic children and they'reprobably looking at us going.
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
Spirit does not like that model.
It doesn't like the energy.
It is soulless, it is devoid.
There is a time and space forsome of that.
It's not going to throw thebaby out with the bathwater,
kind of thing, but as an entireparadigm.
(30:15):
It's when you actually connectwith the energy.
And once I got out of it, therewas something that happened
which I was invited back into itand I thought it was okay to do
.
It was not okay.
I experienced the same physicalsymptoms I guess you can call
it, from when I was in there.
I could not wake up in themorning.
My legs could.
(30:35):
I could not function.
Like my legs could not move,they were.
It was like trying to move yourlegs with steel cap boots Just
fatigue, just brain fog.
Couldn't even do basicfunctions like that was the life
that I was applauded for.
It was a trickster archetype.
It's like the more you do that,the more you'll get applauded
and so on, so forth.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But please do go on well, the other thing, too, is
like people are looking at theoutside and they're looking at,
like the because you'vementioned a few times, like,
yeah, like we have our physicalbodies, but this is not the real
stuff.
Like the because you'vementioned a few times, like,
yeah, like we have our physicalbodies, but this is not the real
stuff.
Like, the real stuff is thespiritual and tapping into the
divine and tapping into yourenergy, and a lot of people have
(31:18):
I mean, the majority of themasses have completely lost
touch and it's only gettingworse and worse the more that
people are tapping into socialmedia.
And I consistently will saythat, because the more people
are looking at other people'syou know, picture perfect lives,
the more the people are justreally looking at like the
(31:38):
outward, the money, the materialitems, like none of that is
actually real.
What you really want to betapping into is your true spirit
, your actual energy.
One thing that I wanted to notehere, too, is like so I had said
I made the joke like I used tosay, you know, cry in the shower
like a winner, and I was verymuch on the path of like don't
show your emotions.
(31:58):
You got to be strong.
You have to be strong.
You got to suck it up, swallowit and then you can deal with it
later.
Well, that's incrediblyhorrible.
So don't do that.
Like that's so toxic.
I'm very annoyed with myselfthat that was even what I was
doing, but I do wanna also notethere is actually have been
scientific studies that showthat when you're feeling
different emotions and yourelease that through tears and
(32:21):
you actually allow yourself tocry, the molecular makeup of
your tears is different,dependent on what emotion you're
feeling in the moment.
So crying is actuallyincredibly cathartic.
That's why we actually feelbetter after you cry, because
you are releasing toxinstechnically from your body.
So for the first like 25 yearsof my life or 30 years of my
(32:42):
life, I was like don't cry, suckit up.
And now I'm like, oh, my God,god, I had all these toxins
flowing so that I wanted to putout there.
It's good to cry, let it out.
I do it now all the time and myfamily makes fun of me so
there's that it could be yellingit could be.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yes, it's not about like you know.
Yeah, crying is one way.
If that works, great, if yourbody wants to yell.
And you know, a rage song thatI have is jimmy and twirl pain.
It's like when I want to getget into rage mode then you do
that.
It's honoring all the seasons,it's honoring the full spectrum
and knowing that that is wherethe power actually lies yes,
(33:21):
exactly, honestly, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
There there's so much power within and I know that
you know people get a littlelike, oh well, there's, it's BS.
You know, I've doneaffirmations every morning.
It's nonsense Okay.
But if you're just standing ina mirror saying to yourself
you're a millionaire, yes,that's nonsense.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
You're unconscious.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
That's not.
That's not it.
Eleanor and I actually chattedabout this a little bit before
we started recording today thatthe market is so saturated right
now and for the low cost of$99.99, you can work with
anybody to change your life atthis point.
There's the right match, theright type of method and just
(34:04):
the right time in your life.
So there's a lot more to itthan just like, oh, I'm just
gonna get up and sayaffirmations that's not.
For a really long time Ithought that's what it was too.
That's not really what it is.
So I wanna say that likethere's a deeper, more
meaningful thing here and it'snot topical, and it's not like
applying sunscreen, like youreally have to dig deep if you
(34:24):
really want to make a definitiveshift.
But it is possible.
I've done it, eleanor has doneit.
There are a lot.
There are countless people thathave actually done it
successfully.
You just have to find the rightpeople for it.
Eleanor is one of these people.
So there's that.
And then the other thing Iwanted to touch on too, because
I think we do get caught up, andI'm going to refer to the
bro-ness again.
(34:44):
Even myself, I get tripped upin the patriarchy, right.
So I had this phone call overthe summertime in 2024, summer
2024, where I was like I want mypodcast to grow.
What can I do to make thepodcast grow and how can I get
more listeners?
So I started reaching out toother podcasters.
I'll be interviewed on allthese other podcasts.
Like, let me again like thehustle culture, which again like
(35:13):
the hustle culture, which,again, this is not really what
we need to do here.
But I had it in my head and Iwas like, let me do it.
So I connected with thispodcast group and I was like
well, they'll interview me.
So the line opens up and it'sthis young guy.
I think he was like latetwenties ish.
He looked, he looked fairlyyoung and immediately I sensed
the energy was bad.
But I was like no, you're,maybe you're just being an old
fart, jenny.
You know like you got.
You got to get with the youngpeople.
You need to, you need to dothis.
(35:34):
So I'm on the line andimmediately he's like well,
what's your funnels?
Like what funnels?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
are you?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
using.
I was like, well, I havefunnels, but I'm not really like
using it because you're notusing your funnels, my God.
Well, what are you doing withyour video content?
I was like, well, I'm notreally, I'm not.
I was like I'm not using myvideo content.
You're not using your videocontent, my God.
You're just sitting on all thisstuff.
What's wrong?
What are you doing for yoursocial media?
(36:04):
I was like what?
And so like I end the call.
And then he even went so far asto attack I have my own LLC, I
have my own business.
And he even went so far as toattack how it's called.
He was like, well, you can'tcall yourself consulting.
You can't say that.
And I was like why not?
I'm like, why not?
You need special qualificationsfor that.
I was like I do, oh, my God.
(36:25):
And I hung up the line and Iwas like why did I let this
young person?
I have to tell you.
My immediate reaction was Ifelt bad and I was like Jenny,
what are you doing in this space?
You don't know what you'redoing.
Maybe you're on the wrong pathhere.
And I had this whole, not awhole day, it was maybe an hour,
because I'm pretty in tunedwith recognizing these things
(36:45):
now and I hung up and I was like, wow, that felt shitty.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
And.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I just kind of kept thinking about it.
I'm like that felt like crap.
I'm like, well, jen, maybeyou're not doing this right.
Maybe you need to do thisdifferently.
Maybe you need to be on socialmedia all the time posting
things.
Maybe you should expand and beposting 20 times a day.
And I started getting kind ofparanoid about it and then I
thought to myself, but that'snot really in alignment with
what we're doing here.
And you know, he even went sofar as to say, like well, you're
(37:11):
supposed to be charging yourguests.
I was like what I'm supposed tocharge my guests?
And I've had people say to melike, oh well, how much do you
charge to be on your podcast?
I'm like I don't charge to beon my podcast, I want you on my
podcast, everybody on my podcast.
Come and talk on my podcast.
Like there's all these elementsthat came out of that
conversation where I was like atfirst I felt kind of crappy,
but then I was like, but no, thepeople who are supposed to hear
this podcast are going to findthis podcast and that energy is
(37:35):
going to align just because ofwhat I'm putting out there.
And you actually mentioned itbefore when I started talking
about my original journey withthe podcast and how I started,
and you actually just said yourenergy.
I can sense it.
There is more to this life thanI need to beat people over the
head, because what you're goingto do there, if you're trying to
do something like that, let'ssay you're a content creator and
(37:57):
you're listening to thisconversation.
If you're trying to beat peopleover the head with your
messaging, that is not real.
You might have a millionfollowers, but those million
people are following you justbecause, and they're not
actually engaging with you.
This is not real.
You might have a millionfollowers, but those million
people are following you justbecause, and they're not
actually engaging with you.
This is not the audience thatyou want.
And, eleanor, I think that'skind of what you went through
was that you had this massivefollowing.
(38:18):
You had this massive life thatyou had really like built up.
People were looking at you likewow, like look at how
successful she is, but thereality was inside.
You weren't being Eleanor notat all.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
She did not exist in.
It didn't exist.
It did not exist because the,the four-year-old child, has
said it's not safe to be here,we need to be someone else.
Yes, and then that's thefoundation, which wasn't based
on truth.
So then you slip into thesedisempowering narratives,
whether it's the, whether it'sthe distorted patriarchy that
(38:54):
only shows you, this is how youquote-unquote, succeed.
And whether it's the completeopposite, the toxic feminine,
where it's like screw man, screwthis.
You know all of that.
So it's distortions all around.
You just keep on slipping in toundesirable situations,
professionally and personally.
You attract people out of yourtrauma box.
(39:15):
You compromise all the way down.
And it is extremely challengingbecause there are not many
healthy models of anythingaround.
You know, my partner and Idon't have a model of healthy
relating yet in our heart, ofhearts, of hearts.
That is the one thing we heldon to and we did not compromise
on that because a part of usknew that everyone around us has
(39:38):
it wrong, you know, in theirown way maybe not wrong, but
unconscious which is where allthe problems stem from.
So I completely understandbecause it's like okay, well,
I'll, I'll remove that.
What do I do instead?
And you know my shadow workcoach she just said it very
openly it's like you haveeverything that you need, all
(39:59):
the gifts, our medicine, it iswithin us.
Do we need education?
Do we need legal basics?
Do we need how to learn, how tostructure and systemize?
There are things that have tobe learned, of course,
absolutely.
But our gifts, that which weare here to share with the world
, that's embedded into us, wehave forgotten, and you know,
(40:21):
you just see, become a xyz in 10days and do all of these things
.
Like I remember as well, like Iwent to a nine, uh, I went to a
90 breathwork.
I'm like, wow, this is great.
And I can like sign up, butthey were pushy, they were great
about it, they were all good,but I was like what am I doing
here?
Like I'm I'm again trying toplug in someone else's something
(40:42):
into my reality, and that's nothow it works.
You cannot all of these,whether it's breathwork or
whatnot.
They are powerful tools, butthey are not you either.
There is that which is thealchemy of you, which you are
here to be in the world, andthen everything else magnetizes
around you, like in the same waythat through our path.
(41:03):
We had a phenomenal experiencewith qhht.
It was four hours after thatwhich we found ourselves in a
relationship after never havingone all my life, let alone
having gone on a date or asecond date or a dinner date.
I didn't even know what all ofthat was, and so that modality
is part of our toolbox because,again, not one model is suitable
(41:26):
at this point in time for this,for whatnot.
It was in a regression thatit's like, okay, now's the time
to dream.
It's like, okay, well, I knowhow to do that.
I'm going to pick up differenttools now, but when I needed to
you know heavy duty,consciousness, work I could.
Dreaming wasn't, it wasn't thetime for it either.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
There's definitely something to be said about
building your skills as you goand understanding a different
path.
So I know, when I started thiswhole journey, I remember I
called my cousin and I was like,oh my God, I've been doing this
wrong this entire time.
I was like I didn't know andthat was like that was a little
(42:05):
under three years ago, when Ihad really started this path.
One of the most importantmeditations because you've
mentioned something a couple oftimes that I want to share this
with you One of the mostimportant and impactful
meditations that I actually didearly on in the journey was the
coach I was working with.
She had everybody get into ameditative state and then she
(42:26):
said I want you to picture youryounger self, you know, at
whatever age she comes to you,but picture child Jenny and
coming to you and talking to you.
What would little Jenny say?
Again, this is one of thosemoments where I'm in my backyard
and I'm like, let me do thismeditation and I'm crying
hysterically because I haven'tthought about little Jenny and
(42:48):
what she wanted 30.
At that point it was like 37years.
I hadn't thought about her atall.
And so I'm doing thismeditation and little Jenny just
wanted to help people.
She just wanted to help people.
She was actually veryaltruistic.
She wanted to work with thehomeless.
She wanted to tutor.
She really wanted to go to soupkitchens and help people.
(43:12):
She wanted to.
She wanted to be a shift in theworld for the better.
She wanted to show up like that.
And I had lost that part.
And so I I'm actually getting alittle choked up talking about
this.
But I I came out of themeditation and I was like, oh my
God, like I've really wanted tohelp people at my core and I
(43:33):
lost that through my parents'divorce, the traumas that you go
through as a woman in general.
There's these moments that yougo through and I had lost that
sense of myself where I was likeI really wanted to be here to
help people and I wanted to showup with my energy and be like
I'm here to be a resource foryou.
And I started leaning into thatmore.
(43:55):
Every once in a while I would dothat meditation over again and
kind of gut check.
And then I started thinkinglike, would little Jenny be
proud of this?
Would little Jenny, you know,would teenager Jenny be proud of
this?
Who was I all those years ago?
And like it has been I've saidit a couple times it's been life
changing doing this work and,and you know, people are like
(44:17):
jumping on this big bandwagon,like, oh, I want to.
You know, manifest abundance andyou know, whatever these are
such buzzwords now that I don'tlike saying it, I don't like
talking about manifestinganymore because I'm like, oh
gosh, it sounds like such likecrap the way that people have
been putting it out there.
The work if you find the rightguides and that's where, like,
eleanor comes in here and herenergy is so good and I will a
(44:41):
hundred percent back her up herebecause you have to find the
right person for you.
You have to do the actual work,because it's not just topical.
You do have have to think toyourself like who am I really
Like?
What have I done this wholetime and what path do I really
want to go down to be able toget to like really being myself?
(45:02):
Once you tap into your actual,authentic self, you will see
shifts, like big shifts, and thelast three years I can attest
like has been so transformativeand I'm in such a place right
now where I wake up everymorning.
I'm like I feel so blessed.
I'm not a millionaire, I'm notmaking loads, I don't have
(45:23):
millions of downloads on mypodcast, but I feel blessed
because I get to connect withpeople like Eleanor, I get to
connect with all of my otherguests and if there's just one
person that's hearing thisepisode and walks away and says,
like, let me, let me take alook at these links that Jenny
put in the resources, let me,let me see what else I can do to
help myself If one person'slife changes because of this
conversation.
That is what I'm here for.
(45:44):
That's the whole purpose ofthis podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's when you create from such a place, even
accessing creation energy, eventhat is offline, it is
challenging to access when youare in such deep survival mode,
so many.
Some parts of us may bethriving, but other parts of us
are atrophied, neglected andabandoned and meshed, being
(46:07):
siphoned by the use of othersaround us.
So they're using our own poweror, you know, our own energy,
then accessing creation energyand creation without limitation,
which is our birthright.
Of course, people are stuck andit's you can't just tell them
to just go out and do something.
(46:27):
They may not have access tothat energy, and that's what I
really appreciated withastrology.
It started showing that.
You know, why does Jenny havethis ability to do this so
naturally, same as human design,which we also work with.
Why can this person just dothis?
And for me it's so hard.
You know my partner's reallyplayful and light, but for me to
access that same energy, for meit's intercepted.
(46:49):
I don't have that same accessas well.
So that's what came to me whenyou were mentioning that as well
, and I like also that you saidit's guides, because guides are
oh yeah.
I don't say the way of thefuture, but that's where things
are going, because all healingis self-healing and the deeper
that you can enable someone elseto access within themselves and
(47:10):
to get to higher realms, likehigher and deep are the same.
When we're talking about thespiritual work, that's where it
has to, that's where it goes,because even when I first came
across the concept of the innerchild, it was devastating and I
put out photos of me that Ihaven't looked at for years and
that, forgetting that I did thisto a child who was so pure and
(47:33):
who deserved so much better.
And before I go into that, somepeople might be listening and
go well, that wasn't too bad.
Comparing someone's directexperience of their reality to
someone else's is soinvalidating and crippling to
the person who had thatexperience.
Because what my soul came intothis lifetime, for the soul
(47:56):
chose that the soul is against,like we did soul contracts as
well.
That's how I came across it,because it's like there were
decisions made and I wasn't evenat the meeting and I'm the one
having to and I'm the one heretrying to figure it out and
reverse engineer everything.
But my direct experience is youknow, I did not incarnate as a
third world child or I did notincarnate to learn certain
(48:19):
lessons.
So when people, especially inthe journey and it happens quite
early on you may haveexperienced it as well, but that
just invalidating yourexperience and how you are
trying to feel is onto itselfcausing trauma.
You know it's still.
You know when people saying, oh, just just get, just get over
(48:39):
it, just integrate it.
It's like you try, integrateyou.
Yeah, there's a lot of flatadvice when it around this
because, again, the language andpeople I've not visited that
far deep into themselves.
So, guides is a guide.
I love that word, I love theenergy of the word and those
that have truly done the work.
(48:59):
You can't fake it.
So it's yeah, I like how yousaid that there.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, and honestly, it's real.
And that's also, like you know,it's interesting because the
energies will align and you'llbe able to sense, like, if
you're seeking a guide, right,like, let's say, like you're
listening to this, you're likeyou know, I really do want to
work with someone and you'reseeking someone out.
You can sense, almost in thefirst couple of minutes of a
conversation, sometimes like, goto your.
We talked about feelings andhow.
That's like your barometer,that's like a step 1.1.
(49:29):
In like, recognize yourfeelings.
Do you feel good in this moment?
That's like a huge like itemwhere you can say, like, okay,
now I can use this as myinternal guide.
Is this moment authentic to me?
Is this really where I want tobe?
Is this conversation reallywhat a conversation I want to be
having?
Like that's really your firststop.
And that applies to, again, yourprofession, your romantic
(49:52):
relationships, it applies toyour family relationship.
Just because it's familydoesn't mean that it's not toxic
.
Oh, it's like ever.
I remember growing up and I waslike, oh, you know, your blood,
blood is thicker than water.
Like you know, your family's,your family always show for your
family, doesn't matter whatthey do.
And I'm like kind of does,because, like toxic family
members that are your bloodlines, I love you from a distance.
(50:14):
I will.
If anything ever happened, I'llbe there.
But we don't have to be in eachother's energies all the time
because we're not in alignmentwith each other and I'm not at a
at this point in my life.
I'm very protective of myenergy space.
My husband and I are veryprotective of, like, who we
invite into our space, how weallow people to interact here,
because we work so hard as acouple, as a unit and as a
(50:35):
family unit to make sure this isa peaceful household and make
sure that we feel the energy isgood energy here.
And it's very interestingbecause there have been
instances where we've had, youknow, parties and this and that
and we actually can feel thedepletion afterwards.
It's very interesting becauseat the end of the day we're like
(50:55):
we can sense when it's gonegood and we're like, oh, this
felt good or whatever.
But then we can also sense whenthere's been a body present and
it only has to be one, that'sright, it only has to be one
body and when that one body ispresent and we feel that that
pull, we both recognize itimmediately.
My husband's very in tune tothat kind of thing.
So we both are like, oh, thisis a bad energy, like okay,
(51:15):
let's move on.
You know like it's you have topay attention and it sounds.
It might sound silly if it's thefirst time you're hearing
something like this, but it'sincredibly important.
That's right.
I like I've so enjoyed thisconversation with you.
I could probably talk to youfor like six hours, like
straight, and we could do likeit doesn't happen all the time
(51:41):
to me, but when it does happen,I'm like, oh my gosh, we can
keep going.
Um, do you have any, anythingthat you would really like the
listeners to walk away from withthis episode?
Is there something that's inyour mind right now?
Tip of your tongue.
Like I really want thelisteners to hear this.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
There's two most important questions in the
experience called life, andthat's who and what am I?
The relentless pursuit toanswer that across all time,
space continuum, across alldimensions, across all lifetimes
, so on, so forth, is the mostvaluable thing, because what
else is there for a self to doother than experience it, other
(52:15):
than to experience it?
It's other than to experienceitself over and over and over
again.
Why do we incarnate?
There is so much to experience,and that's what this journey is
about.
So falling in love with thediscovery is so important on
this journey, because only thencan you arrive at truth.
And when you arrive at truth,the illusions dissipate, and
(52:37):
that's how you get to the richerexpression of you.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Thank you that was so well put.
Listeners, I'm going to linkall of Eleanor's information in
the description of this episode.
I want you to look into her, Iwant you to check her out.
Her energy is really good.
I know you're not with me, live, but her energy is really good.
(53:00):
I know you're not with me, live, but her energy is really
fabulous for a while anyway.
So, yeah, I mean, and honestly,if you're, you're in a point in
your life where, like I'm, I'munhappy, there is a way to get
yourself back in alignment.
There is a way to do this, andit doesn't have to be this
shockingly awful event.
You can just make the decisiontoday things I want things to be
and you can just start takingthose baby steps, because that's
really what it is.
Eleanor, thank you so much forjoining the show today.
(53:20):
I greatly appreciate youlending your story and your
experience to the listeners.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Thank you so much for the space, for the energy and
your intention, and I love theseconversations because they give
permission when people in ourworlds will not grant you the
permission to deconstruct andthen become who you were always
meant to be.
So thank you so much, jenny.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Of course, and listeners.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today and we will catch
you on the next one.
Take care.
Hi everyone, this is Steel Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I am very excited to introduceyou to our guest today.
We have Eleanor Moshe on theline with us.
She is a co founder of truth inyou and a four times author and
podcast host of deconstructingyou.
Eleanor, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
A pleasure and privilege to be here and I'm
very much looking forward to theconversation.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So, eleanor, I would love for you to introduce
yourself to the listeners andtell them about your journey and
how you chartered your path,because I think it's going to
really be impactful for thelisteners to hear how you've
gone through.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Had the career that most people would keel over for.
They would have done anythingto get into the rooms and trade
places as to where I was, andthere I was, with a growing void
in the heart space and thisemptiness, despite the accolades
rolling in, podcast was on 150plus thousand downloads, four
(01:04):
times selling books andinternational collaborations,
and the list just goes on and on.
This award, that award, my ownbusiness left, corporate things
that people just work so hard toachieve.
And I got there.
Yet once I actually looked atthe truth of the situation and
realized what was going on, onceI actually looked at the truth
of the situation and realizedwhat was going on, everything
(01:26):
was on fire.
Nothing was actually stronglybuilt on any foundations that
could sustain.
Things were crumbling down allaround me.
And once I started seeing thetruth of the situation,
triggered by moments ofawakening first in 2021, second
in 2023, which I'm happy toshare they started showing me
the truth of the situation, andthat was that I'm not even.
(01:48):
I don't even exist in my ownreality.
And here I was thinking that Ido exist and I'm making
independent, strong independentdecisions because I'm a female
and I can do what I want.
No, no, not when you've neverbeen you, not when your true
self has been locked out of yourlife into the shadows for
decades, not when you've comeinto this lifetime with the
(02:09):
karmic template ofdisempowerment.
And the list goes on and on.
So it was triggered.
The deconstruction phase wastriggered by I was overseas I
was 32, with my parents overseas.
I haven't been overseas withfriends since I was 21, and that
should say a few things.
And I was going to dinner withmy cousin, which appeared
(02:32):
problematic to the mother andI'll say maternal impactor,
because it's not necessarily thefemale who is the birth giver
in this life which is the onecarrying the wounded.
It's bigger than that.
We need to look further thanthe physical person in front of
us.
Of course, they're veryimpactful and it was a very
ordinary request.
(02:52):
I'm going to go out to dinnerwith my cousin, who I haven't
seen.
She did not quote unquote.
Allow me to walk 600 metersaround the corner to go to the
restaurant from where we werestaying.
There was crying, there werehysterics.
I had to ask my cousin to pickme up and I'll explain later
because there was no leaving theapartment and the intensity of
that.
That's not the first time thatthat's happened.
That's just an expression ofthe manifestation of my entire
(03:16):
adult life and teen life.
And it's not until you're outof the environment, which A no
one sees and no one hears of andno one validates your
experience, and until you're outof the country even to get a
bird's eye perspective as towhat's happening here, then you
don't know what's going on.
And I was sharing that with mythen best friend, now partner,
(03:37):
as to what's happening, and heintroduced me to the concept of
the devouring mother and Iquickly looked it up because I'm
like this is the resonance,devouring mother.
And I quickly looked it upbecause I'm like this is the
resonance.
And as soon as I read it,everything just sunk.
It explained why I haven'texisted in my own reality and I
thought I existed at home.
I thought that I was existingin my career.
My home life was then mirroredinto my career as well.
(04:00):
So I stopped existing in theonly avenue which I thought I
had any agency.
I did not, because what does apattern do?
Pattern does as pattern is, itrepeats itself.
So the wounding was then beingexacerbated in professional
arenas.
But going back to the moment ofawakening that night, I cried
from my soul.
I have never, ever, cried likethat.
(04:22):
It was a devastating cry.
And I looked myself in themirror and I said this can't be
it for me to have, quote,unquote, so many positive
attributes and to not even havethe agency to leave the door.
Leave through the door when Iwant to.
There were other moments thattriggered that, but I returned
and the healing started.
(04:43):
And when?
When the conscious forces I'mparaphrasing this quote by Jung,
but when the conscious,conscious forces has have fried
themselves, the unconsciousforces will come to aid.
And that was the moment ofconviction.
That was the moment when Ichose myself.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I honored my own existence for the first time in
decades you mentioned thedevouring mother and I had a
moment to google it.
It's, it's a, it's it's alittle bit intense.
Like I mean it's a lot intenseand I think that this also
speaks to codependency and like,like, like, severe codependency
(05:20):
.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout the devouring mother and
what that is?
And then I also want to hear,and I want to commend you for
recognizing what was happening,because that is like seeing
through a dense fog and likeactually waking up and being
like hold on a second.
This is not what I want.
(05:40):
So, devouring mother for thelisteners, a little bit more,
all right.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So Carolyn Miss, who's well known for her work
with Jungian archetypes and shewrites a lot about this and
trains as well she describes itas the devouring mother.
She consumes her childrenpsychologically and emotionally
(06:08):
and instills in them deep rootedfeelings of guilt at leaving
her or even the notion ofbecoming independent.
So the whole notion ofindependence is completely
knocked out of a child who hasbeen devoured because, for many
reasons, the mother does notseem that she can have safety
and security on her own accord.
So this then, how does ittranslate into behavior?
It seems like lovingly selflessbehavior.
I will do everything for youexcept give you the one thing
(06:30):
that you need, which is your ownindependence, which is the most
healthy expression that you canhave in a relationship.
It's this.
I will do more and more andmore for you.
So you have this enmeshmentdynamic where you're not sure.
You're not sure anymore whereshe starts and where you end,
and where you start and whereshe ends.
It's the complete blurring ofall boundaries and you find
yourself as this parentifiedchild who has carried too much
(06:54):
responsibility that neverbelonged to them and lives and
foregoes dreams, foregoes theirown life, because the guilt is
so deep-rooted and it manifestsin subtle ways, in deep ways,
that any expression ofindependence creates so much
fear in the maternal impactormother in this case that getting
(07:18):
out of there, you sometimesneed to go cosmically deep to
find the root cause that oncethat is removed, that
destabilizes everything and youcan't give shallow advice to
people in these situations, likeset up a boundary, it's like,
well, I did actually think ofthat, or just do this, or just
do that.
That advice is very flat and itdoes not account for the
(07:39):
complexities, the difficultiesthat parentified sons and
daughters find themselves in,because you know the image that
comes to mind with a devouringmother it's like a snake.
The more that you try towriggle out of it, the more that
the pressure gets tighter.
And not everyone makes it aswell.
So it is an archetype which isfascinating and it starts to
(08:02):
explain and validates.
That's what it did for me.
It started to validate my ownexperience, because people will
not validate in society,especially when you have the
outward success.
It's like but you're competent,but you have executive
functioning well, it's like,well, no, I don't.
There's many faculties that areoffline, and once I started
lifting the hood as to what wasactually playing out in my split
(08:24):
reality.
It it was, you know, that Elmomeme where it's sitting in the
fire.
That was me.
It's like everything is on fireand nothing is right, because
I've never existed in my ownreality, as do many children who
take on the incorrect energeticexchange.
Energy flows, rabbi, somethingCharles Schwab I'm not I'm not
(08:47):
pronouncing that correctly, I'mvery bad at quoting people but
he talks about the concept thatenergy flows from parent to
child.
It does not flow the other way.
And think about it.
The parents they decided tohave a child and if they didn't
have, decide to have that childout of pure love, so they
brought it into it as aretirement plan.
(09:08):
They brought it into it to fixtheir marriage.
They brought in a child to, youknow, create purpose where
there was otherwise.
Avoid.
All of this already hasexpectations on the child.
And then there's differentarchetypes, that, of course, the
feminine also plays out intheir distortions, but this was
(09:29):
the one that that should excusemy coughing.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I'm like it's the season and I'm getting a little
raspy.
Um, I, first I want to.
I want to take a moment andrecognize you for being able to
see in the moment, like oh mygosh, this is me.
And then also recognizing likeokay, I have to do something
here, and we I mean in ourpre-chat, like we had talked a
(09:55):
little bit about like howdifficult that is, because it's
it feels like, and I I thinkwhat I had said was like it's
like walking into, you're in adense fog and it's very hard to
see your way out of somethinglike that, because this is all
you've known your whole life.
Some people never realize thatthey go their whole lives
(10:28):
permeating this model and thenthey further bring this model
along into their own familiesand their own children.
So you have, at this point,successfully severed that line
and are, I'm sure, still workingthrough it, because it's a
daily thing, it's not somethingthat happens overnight.
So I do want to point that outtoo For the listeners who are
listening to this conversationand being like, oh my gosh, wait
(10:49):
.
I think that this soundsfamiliar, or this, like
suffocating feeling, soundsfamiliar.
That's how I used to think ofit as a suffocating feeling.
It's those shoulds, and youmight recognize it as you're
listening to us talk about this,but then you also are unsure of
like, well, how would I evennavigate out of this?
(11:11):
Because it's not as simple aslike, oh, just set some
boundaries, you'll be fine.
Okay, good luck.
That's not really how it works,because it's like time,
consistency, practice, years ofinternal work, really like it
takes time and it's a dailything.
So you, you had this moment andit was a triggering moment
where you're like I need to dosomething and then it from there
(11:33):
.
I think, from what we've talkedabout, you basically tore it
all down.
You kind of threw everythingaway that you were working on.
So I want the listeners to hearthis journey of yours that you
went through, because this isit's intense, but look at where
you are today.
So, yes, please continue.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
If you're in prison, you don't go to the prison guard
or the chief warden whateveryou want to call them and say
hello, can I please have myfreedom back?
Can I please have 10% of myfreedom back, like, I'm in
prison here and I don't know howI got here.
I also didn't do anything wrong.
Prison here and I don't knowhow I got here.
I also didn't do anything wrong, but can you grant me some?
What are they going to say?
Yeah, sure, here's the key tothe front gate and let everyone
(12:11):
else out whilst you're with it.
It's not how it works.
You don't negotiate with you,don't negotiate back for your
power.
You go on a full reclamationjourney and you don't know where
it's going to take you.
A few things happened beforehandit was last year, yeah, as I
was turning 32 through again,universal coincidence.
(12:31):
There's no such thing ascoincidence, sorry
synchronicities.
I had an astrology reading andI thought she was going to come
and validate everything and justtell me what I already know.
Eleanor, you're successful andit's just a matter of time.
And you just got to keep onhustling.
And you just.
Eleanor, you're successful andit's just a matter of time.
And you just got to keep onhustling and you, just, you know
, wake up at 5am.
Like you know, the distortedpatriarchy the bro way of living
(12:54):
.
And the first thing she said islike your mother wound is the
highest point on your chart,which it is.
And I'm like how do you knowthis?
And she was like she was justdropping truth bombs after truth
bombs and I spun for 10 daysbecause what I was being invited
to do was commit identitysuicide.
And that is the most fearfulthing, because even then she's
(13:15):
like this construction stuffyou're doing, it's done.
You're going to beunrecognizable in five months
from this point.
So we're recording in December,unrecognizable in five months
from this point.
So we're recording in decemberthe you know new astrological
cycle next year, march, april,around that time you're going to
be unrecognizable.
I already am.
I don't need to wait for thatpoint in time.
And all of this was just.
(13:36):
This was elicited so much fearbecause what I was being invited
to do was something that thereis no concept, no support, no
idea how to do it, nothing.
That there is no concept, nosupport, no idea how to do it,
nothing.
It's just staring into a voidand the void stares back at you.
So what did I do?
I shut it down.
I shut it down completely.
And she said when I go overseas, a conversation will happen
(13:57):
with mother and I'm like I don'tbelieve you.
We've never conversed aboutthis and even when we had it's I
should just talk to a wall.
I had that energy about me andof course the conversation did
happen.
So I shut that whole model downbecause it did not fit into my
version of reality.
(14:18):
But of course it was beingseeded in my unconscious and
when the conscious forces frythemselves I'm paraphrasing a
Jung quote here the unconsciousforces come to end.
So I, a few months after comingback, got myself into position
and I'm like I don't even knowwhat I need anymore.
But I do need help here.
I don't even know what's goingon.
(14:40):
Astrology was the firstonboarding language which
started framing my directexperience of reality and what
was happening.
That has never been donebeforehand, and we started
working with shadow archetypes.
It was phenomenal of anexperience.
It was challenging to see yourown self dead straight in the
eye week after week and excavate, just smash, smash through
(15:03):
everything.
And I was phenomenal with thisand I still am.
I have an appetite for this.
I love this.
I, you know, I love theunderworld and the heavy, but
you need to balance it outbecause you can't live there.
But I have a large capacity forall this stuff and she was
completely surprised that Icould go through this stuff but
(15:23):
also had my then best friend,now partner, as a support,
because going through any ofthis alone is it's so.
Astrology was a first languagewhich started giving frameworks
and models to my experience whycertain things happened, why
they did not happen.
So this year is my Plutoretrograde.
Pluto is a planet of theunderworld, so sex, death and
(15:46):
transformation, and it's been inretrograde, so going backwards
all my life.
But this year has been the yearof corrections.
And what will it do?
It will build you up to be asbig as it needs to, and then
it's going to topple you downand even, just from a career
perspective, the brand that Ihad built, the accolades of
(16:11):
success.
I remember expressingdissatisfaction with everything
and people were like but why?
You built this, you did this.
You know the sunk cost fallacy.
It's like just because I builtit, do I have to maintain it now
for the rest of my life?
All of this started coming upand it took around nine months
before I could say I can't getrid, not rid of this.
But I need to put this to rest,at least whilst other parts are
(16:31):
still being mourned, grieved,coming to light.
Even it was not.
The fear was all encompassing.
It was conversations uponconversations, and I also
started then looking formodalities to help access the
unconscious kundalini awakeningbreathwork, 9d breathwork, reiki
not reiki, but chakra clearing,meridian grid alignment you
(16:52):
name the modalities.
I've just about been there aswell, because we need the right
tool for the right job.
There were things that were sodeep within that I needed to
access, and every one of thosehelped.
There was no, not, not.
Any model I don't believe iscomplete when it comes to
deconstructing self.
We need the right tool for theright job at the right time,
(17:14):
with where you are and thatchanges.
You know, could I have seen ashaman as soon as I started this
?
Absolutely not because Iwouldn't have had the intention,
the conviction to believe in it, but when?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I was ready for it, it was powerful.
I think that that's veryimportant there, what you just
said, because people will andmyself included, if you have a
sense so my journey was a littlebit less intense maybe, but,
like, the elements are there andthere's a lot of through lines
from what you went through.
And what I want to point out topeople is sometimes it's not a
(17:48):
huge splash moment where you'relike, oh my gosh.
You know, sometimes it's smallinklings of like something's not
quite right here.
Now, the other element to thisis you might go down a path of
like, well, something's notright, I'm going to try out, you
know, visualizations, or I'mgoing to try out meditating, or
I'm going to try out that evenlike, and you're trying to like
(18:08):
tap into different things.
And what Eleanor is sayingthat's key here is that not
everything's going to work inthe moment.
Sometimes you have to build onyour skills for being able to do
this kind of work for yourselfand you have to build on your
knowledge base, because youcan't dive into step 15 and then
come back and be.
It's not possible becauseyou're not going to really
(18:31):
understand and appreciate it.
Now, my journey throughrecognizing where I was in my
life and recognizing when thingsweren't really in flow and like
what I was going to be doing.
It took.
I want to say it was like ajourney of like 15 or 16 years
that I've been on, because itstarted when I was about 25.
(18:51):
And I started to kind ofrecognize things and I was like
I know that there's somethingnot right here.
I need to like kind ofreevaluate.
And it's been like an ongoingthing for majority of my adult
life, like making sure that I amin tune with myself and
actually being authentic.
And what Eleanor said earlier,too, is that I am in tune with
myself and actually beingauthentic.
And what Eleanor said earliertoo, is that, like a lot of us
(19:12):
think that we are beingourselves and we're, you know,
showing up as ourselves everyday, but we're actually not.
And what I want the list I wantthe listeners to reflect on as
they're listening to this is howmuch of your life is a should.
That's how I think about itquite a bit.
What are you doing right now?
That's I should do this, andthen really, if that should is
(19:33):
there and dominant, then itmight not really be something
that you really want to do, andthat's where you have to look at
your internal feelings and takestock Like a big thing that I
did and I started doing it whenI was 25.
And I've done it now for allthis time.
I just turned 41.
So I've been doing it for likehalf my life now was.
(19:53):
I will take a minute and I'lltake an internal inventory and
say, like Am I happy with thisright now?
Like, do I feel good about this?
For the first half of my life, alot of what I did was I need to
do this, I have to show up tothis, I should be doing this, I
should be the good daughter, Ishould be the executive, I
should graduate from collegebecause I should get a job and I
(20:14):
need to be in corporate.
I need to do this and I need tomake money.
It just snowballed andsnowballed and snowballed and
flash forward.
I got to 37.
So a little bit later than you,I cut to 37.
And I had this like explosion,epiphany moment where I've done
(20:35):
very well in my career myprofessional career and I was
very proud of my trajectory andhow much money I was making and
I was.
I have my husband and my kidsand we have a beautiful family
and this and that.
But this job was like killingme and it was basically like I
felt it starting to drain awayfrom my life and my soul.
(20:57):
I was on this particularproject and my kids were all
pretty small, they were likefour and five years old and I
was working.
At that point, I want to say,like it was like a 60 or 70 hour
week, like it was a tough,tough job that I was doing, and
three weeks of that passed and Icame out of the end of it and
(21:18):
it was like a punch in mystomach because my kids all look
big.
My husband was not happy.
He's like what the hell's goingon?
Like you can't do that, youcan't disappear for three weeks
into work, like.
And I was crushed.
And that was a huge triggeringmoment for me because for most
of my life I was like you haveto love your work, do your job,
(21:38):
do your job, you're invested inall this.
And then all of a sudden I waslike well, wait, no, like this
can't be it.
Like this, this can't be it.
I can't be living to work Likethat's not what life is.
And it started me on a journeyof self discovery.
And that's actually how thepodcast started, because I had
(22:00):
this moment and the originalpodcast, the first season one
was myself and my cousin and shewas on board with me as a
co-host and I kept saying I saidto her I was like I have to do
this, like I keep having thislike sense of urgency to start a
podcast, and so it took me acouple of months to kind of get
up and running and once welaunched, I had this and I get
(22:24):
it now as I talk about it in mysoul.
My soul gets excited when Italk about the podcast and when
I think back on those early dayswhen we started and it's
amazing how this one moment fromthis one job that I had pushed
me towards well, let me see howto do a podcast.
(22:45):
And I Googled it.
Now, listen, this is the realinteresting thing and I haven't
talked about this in a while, soI'm actually kind of excited to
talk about this.
The interesting moments thatkind of all lined up was I was
like I'm going to do thispodcast.
I Googled how do you podcast?
That's literally how I startedhow do I start a podcast.
And I came across a podcasterwho had a podcast guide and I
(23:07):
was like, oh, let me look atthis.
But then when I started lookingat all her work, I was like, oh
wait, she doesn't just podcast,she does other stuff too.
What else does she do?
And I started looking into herand she did coaching for
spiritual coaching and guidance.
I ended up signing up for thishuge package with her and doing
this live online course with herand Eleanor.
(23:29):
When I tell you, the journeythat I went down and the
spiritual journey and theawakening and finding me again
was so powerful and impactfulthat it has changed my entire
life for the better, that it haschanged my entire life for the
(23:49):
better, like it has shiftedeverything for me and my family
and put us on an entirelydifferent path than what I was
on, and one of the most powerfulmeditations that I did in the
early days which, by the way,when I started this journey and
this work, every time I didsomething that tapped into like
the center and the soul, I wouldbe like crying into like the
center and the soul.
I would be like crying, likehysterically, and I don't know
(24:11):
if you had the same experience,but it was like.
It was like a release right.
Like every time I tapped intoanother like artery, basically
of my soul.
It was like spilling forth andI remember telling the other
people in the course I was likeis everyone else?
Like sobbing all the time, likewhat is that?
You had the same experience.
I'm going to pause there for aminute, but it was like a
release.
(24:31):
It was this massive release asI was going on this path.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That's amazing, just your energy when you're talking
about.
It's wonderful to say, it'swonderful to experience with
what you're saying beforehandand I'll answer.
I'll mention that which tiesinto the response to this
question.
But conventional models dealwith only the mind.
It's like you just reprogramyour mind and all of that stuff.
It's like just affirm your wayout of this.
It's like there are somesituations which were not born
(24:57):
in the 3D reality.
Therefore, I cannot affirm myway out of it.
I cannot just hustle and grindmy way out of it.
These problems were establishedoutside of the ego sitting here
having a conversation.
They were born outside of the3D and they need to be resolved
outside of the 3D.
So most conventional models arequite shallow and they work for
(25:21):
shallow problems because theyoffer shallow solutions.
But when you have a deepproblem you need deeper
solutions and that's where thespiritual realm, which is not
something out there likespirituality, is reality.
This podcast is a spiritualexperience that we're having and
that was a big frustration forme, because I did the journaling
(25:44):
, I did the affirmations, I didthe vision board, I tried to do
all of that and it wasmechanical and it fell on its
face.
But also through the past liferegressions that my partner and
I deliver on each other.
Yep, you need to dream.
Of course you do.
But my imagination faculty hasbeen atrophied because of the
situations that I find myself in, so of course I could not get
(26:07):
the imagination muscle started.
Or the car it was not going towork because it has been damaged
and atrophied.
It's offline, so of course Icannot dream.
So only recently that facultyhas started coming back online
with the emotional attachment,because for me, emotion,
everyone is emotional, but forme emotions are my compass and
(26:28):
to not have those, of course Ican't orient myself in the world
.
So when I had a catharsis of theheart, realizing that I have
one, it was tears, it was, itwas all sorts of emotions and it
was even learning to honortheir place, because the
distorted patriarchy will knockthat out of you, making you
perceive it as a weakness.
(26:49):
But without it you can't orientyourself in reality.
And in my recent journey to theunderworld, my guide, call it
like the ceo the general managerof the place was furious with
me because it's like you'vefucked up so many times because
we can't get to you, how do theyget to us through emotions?
(27:10):
So when you feel the rage inthe moment.
That's your compass, andconventional models completely
disregard the body and when wedrop into what our body is
carrying, experiencing for thefirst, realize that or awakening
a hand with the body was.
The body's not here, it's stuckon some other timeline, it's
(27:31):
not present with you.
So, yeah, we think that I'mhere right now.
I can move my hand, that thebody is here.
It ain't here.
So how can you possibly move inthe world, live your best life,
all of these things that arebeing marketed and and you know,
sold and packaged in a $99course to you?
None of that is happening untilyour emotional body, your
(27:52):
physical body, your spiritualbody and your mental body are
not here right now.
Now, this doesn't mean that youneed to be 100% whole in order
to manifest, in order to liveyour life.
No, it's not if, when and thenI'll do it.
No, but to experience thetotality of your birthright and
to connect to your godhood,that's what it does require.
(28:14):
So emotions are imperative, andI've learned to honor them, and
when they're and I've hadmoments where they're all at the
door wanting to come out it'slike well, I don't know how to
get you out either, but it's awhole language and landscape
that has been atrophied and itis evil.
Doesn't even cut it as to whathas happened to the divine
(28:35):
feminine and the divinemasculine, but that's a
conversation in continuity.
So emotions for me have beenthe first time I cried after a
very long time and I did it bymyself.
I was so, I was so proud, I wasso relieved.
I'm like this feels good andthat starts bringing other
things online that I didn't knowI have access to, and it keeps
(28:56):
on blooming from there.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
It's interesting because for a really long time I
used to say it was like a joke,but at the same time it wasn't
a joke and now I'm like I trynot to say this anymore.
I used to say I cry in theshower like a winner.
Basically, hide your emotions,Do what you need to do all day
long Hustle.
We keep joking about it, wekeep referring to bro culture
(29:21):
and I just want to say for thelisteners what we mean when we
say that.
If you haven't heard me saybefore, bro culture is like that
hustle, you have to hustle.
You got to get up at 5 am andthis and that and you got to be
like you know cold calling anddming and you know it's not
authentic.
It's like just you're justbeating a bat against a brick
wall until something breaks.
(29:42):
You know like that's not real,like that's not the path you
want to go down.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
before you continue, I'll just add that spirit
doesn't like it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So throughout past life, spirit.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
From a spirit's perspective, we're all just
cosmic children and they'reprobably looking at us going.
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
Spirit does not like that model.
It doesn't like the energy.
It is soulless, it is devoid.
There is a time and space forsome of that.
It's not going to throw thebaby out with the bathwater,
kind of thing, but as an entireparadigm.
(30:15):
It's when you actually connectwith the energy.
And once I got out of it, therewas something that happened
which I was invited back into itand I thought it was okay to do
.
It was not okay.
I experienced the same physicalsymptoms I guess you can call
it, from when I was in there.
I could not wake up in themorning.
My legs could.
(30:35):
I could not function.
Like my legs could not move,they were.
It was like trying to move yourlegs with steel cap boots Just
fatigue, just brain fog.
Couldn't even do basicfunctions like that was the life
that I was applauded for.
It was a trickster archetype.
It's like the more you do that,the more you'll get applauded
and so on, so forth.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But please do go on well, the other thing, too, is
like people are looking at theoutside and they're looking at,
like the because you'vementioned a few times, like,
yeah, like we have our physicalbodies, but this is not the real
stuff.
Like the because you'vementioned a few times, like,
yeah, like we have our physicalbodies, but this is not the real
stuff.
Like, the real stuff is thespiritual and tapping into the
divine and tapping into yourenergy, and a lot of people have
(31:18):
I mean, the majority of themasses have completely lost
touch and it's only gettingworse and worse the more that
people are tapping into socialmedia.
And I consistently will saythat, because the more people
are looking at other people'syou know, picture perfect lives,
the more the people are justreally looking at like the
(31:38):
outward, the money, the materialitems, like none of that is
actually real.
What you really want to betapping into is your true spirit
, your actual energy.
One thing that I wanted to notehere, too, is like so I had said
I made the joke like I used tosay, you know, cry in the shower
like a winner, and I was verymuch on the path of like don't
show your emotions.
(31:58):
You got to be strong.
You have to be strong.
You got to suck it up, swallowit and then you can deal with it
later.
Well, that's incrediblyhorrible.
So don't do that.
Like that's so toxic.
I'm very annoyed with myselfthat that was even what I was
doing, but I do wanna also notethere is actually have been
scientific studies that showthat when you're feeling
different emotions and yourelease that through tears and
(32:21):
you actually allow yourself tocry, the molecular makeup of
your tears is different,dependent on what emotion you're
feeling in the moment.
So crying is actuallyincredibly cathartic.
That's why we actually feelbetter after you cry, because
you are releasing toxinstechnically from your body.
So for the first like 25 yearsof my life or 30 years of my
(32:42):
life, I was like don't cry, suckit up.
And now I'm like, oh, my God,god, I had all these toxins
flowing so that I wanted to putout there.
It's good to cry, let it out.
I do it now all the time and myfamily makes fun of me so
there's that it could be yellingit could be.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yes, it's not about like you know.
Yeah, crying is one way.
If that works, great, if yourbody wants to yell.
And you know, a rage song thatI have is jimmy and twirl pain.
It's like when I want to getget into rage mode then you do
that.
It's honoring all the seasons,it's honoring the full spectrum
and knowing that that is wherethe power actually lies yes,
(33:21):
exactly, honestly, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
There there's so much power within and I know that
you know people get a littlelike, oh well, there's, it's BS.
You know, I've doneaffirmations every morning.
It's nonsense Okay.
But if you're just standing ina mirror saying to yourself
you're a millionaire, yes,that's nonsense.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
You're unconscious.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
That's not.
That's not it.
Eleanor and I actually chattedabout this a little bit before
we started recording today thatthe market is so saturated right
now and for the low cost of$99.99, you can work with
anybody to change your life atthis point.
There's the right match, theright type of method and just
(34:04):
the right time in your life.
So there's a lot more to itthan just like, oh, I'm just
gonna get up and sayaffirmations that's not.
For a really long time Ithought that's what it was too.
That's not really what it is.
So I wanna say that likethere's a deeper, more
meaningful thing here and it'snot topical, and it's not like
applying sunscreen, like youreally have to dig deep if you
(34:24):
really want to make a definitiveshift.
But it is possible.
I've done it, eleanor has doneit.
There are a lot.
There are countless people thathave actually done it
successfully.
You just have to find the rightpeople for it.
Eleanor is one of these people.
So there's that.
And then the other thing Iwanted to touch on too, because
I think we do get caught up, andI'm going to refer to the
bro-ness again.
(34:44):
Even myself, I get tripped upin the patriarchy, right.
So I had this phone call overthe summertime in 2024, summer
2024, where I was like I want mypodcast to grow.
What can I do to make thepodcast grow and how can I get
more listeners?
So I started reaching out toother podcasters.
I'll be interviewed on allthese other podcasts.
Like, let me again like thehustle culture, which again like
(35:13):
the hustle culture, which,again, this is not really what
we need to do here.
But I had it in my head and Iwas like, let me do it.
So I connected with thispodcast group and I was like
well, they'll interview me.
So the line opens up and it'sthis young guy.
I think he was like latetwenties ish.
He looked, he looked fairlyyoung and immediately I sensed
the energy was bad.
But I was like no, you're,maybe you're just being an old
fart, jenny.
You know like you got.
You got to get with the youngpeople.
You need to, you need to dothis.
(35:34):
So I'm on the line andimmediately he's like well,
what's your funnels?
Like what funnels?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
are you?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
using.
I was like, well, I havefunnels, but I'm not really like
using it because you're notusing your funnels, my God.
Well, what are you doing withyour video content?
I was like, well, I'm notreally, I'm not.
I was like I'm not using myvideo content.
You're not using your videocontent, my God.
You're just sitting on all thisstuff.
What's wrong?
What are you doing for yoursocial media?
(36:04):
I was like what?
And so like I end the call.
And then he even went so far asto attack I have my own LLC, I
have my own business.
And he even went so far as toattack how it's called.
He was like, well, you can'tcall yourself consulting.
You can't say that.
And I was like why not?
I'm like, why not?
You need special qualificationsfor that.
I was like I do, oh, my God.
(36:25):
And I hung up the line and Iwas like why did I let this
young person?
I have to tell you.
My immediate reaction was Ifelt bad and I was like Jenny,
what are you doing in this space?
You don't know what you'redoing.
Maybe you're on the wrong pathhere.
And I had this whole, not awhole day, it was maybe an hour,
because I'm pretty in tunedwith recognizing these things
(36:45):
now and I hung up and I was like, wow, that felt shitty.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
And.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I just kind of kept thinking about it.
I'm like that felt like crap.
I'm like, well, jen, maybeyou're not doing this right.
Maybe you need to do thisdifferently.
Maybe you need to be on socialmedia all the time posting
things.
Maybe you should expand and beposting 20 times a day.
And I started getting kind ofparanoid about it and then I
thought to myself, but that'snot really in alignment with
what we're doing here.
And you know, he even went sofar as to say, like well, you're
(37:11):
supposed to be charging yourguests.
I was like what I'm supposed tocharge my guests?
And I've had people say to melike, oh well, how much do you
charge to be on your podcast?
I'm like I don't charge to beon my podcast, I want you on my
podcast, everybody on my podcast.
Come and talk on my podcast.
Like there's all these elementsthat came out of that
conversation where I was like atfirst I felt kind of crappy,
but then I was like, but no, thepeople who are supposed to hear
this podcast are going to findthis podcast and that energy is
(37:35):
going to align just because ofwhat I'm putting out there.
And you actually mentioned itbefore when I started talking
about my original journey withthe podcast and how I started,
and you actually just said yourenergy.
I can sense it.
There is more to this life thanI need to beat people over the
head, because what you're goingto do there, if you're trying to
do something like that, let'ssay you're a content creator and
(37:57):
you're listening to thisconversation.
If you're trying to beat peopleover the head with your
messaging, that is not real.
You might have a millionfollowers, but those million
people are following you justbecause, and they're not
actually engaging with you.
This is not real.
You might have a millionfollowers, but those million
people are following you justbecause, and they're not
actually engaging with you.
This is not the audience thatyou want.
And, eleanor, I think that'skind of what you went through
was that you had this massivefollowing.
(38:18):
You had this massive life thatyou had really like built up.
People were looking at you likewow, like look at how
successful she is, but thereality was inside.
You weren't being Eleanor notat all.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
She did not exist in.
It didn't exist.
It did not exist because the,the four-year-old child, has
said it's not safe to be here,we need to be someone else.
Yes, and then that's thefoundation, which wasn't based
on truth.
So then you slip into thesedisempowering narratives,
whether it's the, whether it'sthe distorted patriarchy that
(38:54):
only shows you, this is how youquote-unquote, succeed.
And whether it's the completeopposite, the toxic feminine,
where it's like screw man, screwthis.
You know all of that.
So it's distortions all around.
You just keep on slipping in toundesirable situations,
professionally and personally.
You attract people out of yourtrauma box.
(39:15):
You compromise all the way down.
And it is extremely challengingbecause there are not many
healthy models of anythingaround.
You know, my partner and Idon't have a model of healthy
relating yet in our heart, ofhearts, of hearts.
That is the one thing we heldon to and we did not compromise
on that because a part of usknew that everyone around us has
(39:38):
it wrong, you know, in theirown way maybe not wrong, but
unconscious which is where allthe problems stem from.
So I completely understandbecause it's like okay, well,
I'll, I'll remove that.
What do I do instead?
And you know my shadow workcoach she just said it very
openly it's like you haveeverything that you need, all
(39:59):
the gifts, our medicine, it iswithin us.
Do we need education?
Do we need legal basics?
Do we need how to learn, how tostructure and systemize?
There are things that have tobe learned, of course,
absolutely.
But our gifts, that which weare here to share with the world
, that's embedded into us, wehave forgotten, and you know,
(40:21):
you just see, become a xyz in 10days and do all of these things
.
Like I remember as well, like Iwent to a nine, uh, I went to a
90 breathwork.
I'm like, wow, this is great.
And I can like sign up, butthey were pushy, they were great
about it, they were all good,but I was like what am I doing
here?
Like I'm I'm again trying toplug in someone else's something
(40:42):
into my reality, and that's nothow it works.
You cannot all of these,whether it's breathwork or
whatnot.
They are powerful tools, butthey are not you either.
There is that which is thealchemy of you, which you are
here to be in the world, andthen everything else magnetizes
around you, like in the same waythat through our path.
(41:03):
We had a phenomenal experiencewith qhht.
It was four hours after thatwhich we found ourselves in a
relationship after never havingone all my life, let alone
having gone on a date or asecond date or a dinner date.
I didn't even know what all ofthat was, and so that modality
is part of our toolbox because,again, not one model is suitable
(41:26):
at this point in time for this,for whatnot.
It was in a regression thatit's like, okay, now's the time
to dream.
It's like, okay, well, I knowhow to do that.
I'm going to pick up differenttools now, but when I needed to
you know heavy duty,consciousness, work I could.
Dreaming wasn't, it wasn't thetime for it either.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
There's definitely something to be said about
building your skills as you goand understanding a different
path.
So I know, when I started thiswhole journey, I remember I
called my cousin and I was like,oh my God, I've been doing this
wrong this entire time.
I was like I didn't know andthat was like that was a little
(42:05):
under three years ago, when Ihad really started this path.
One of the most importantmeditations because you've
mentioned something a couple oftimes that I want to share this
with you One of the mostimportant and impactful
meditations that I actually didearly on in the journey was the
coach I was working with.
She had everybody get into ameditative state and then she
(42:26):
said I want you to picture youryounger self, you know, at
whatever age she comes to you,but picture child Jenny and
coming to you and talking to you.
What would little Jenny say?
Again, this is one of thosemoments where I'm in my backyard
and I'm like, let me do thismeditation and I'm crying
hysterically because I haven'tthought about little Jenny and
(42:48):
what she wanted 30.
At that point it was like 37years.
I hadn't thought about her atall.
And so I'm doing thismeditation and little Jenny just
wanted to help people.
She just wanted to help people.
She was actually veryaltruistic.
She wanted to work with thehomeless.
She wanted to tutor.
She really wanted to go to soupkitchens and help people.
(43:12):
She wanted to.
She wanted to be a shift in theworld for the better.
She wanted to show up like that.
And I had lost that part.
And so I I'm actually getting alittle choked up talking about
this.
But I I came out of themeditation and I was like, oh my
God, like I've really wanted tohelp people at my core and I
(43:33):
lost that through my parents'divorce, the traumas that you go
through as a woman in general.
There's these moments that yougo through and I had lost that
sense of myself where I was likeI really wanted to be here to
help people and I wanted to showup with my energy and be like
I'm here to be a resource foryou.
And I started leaning into thatmore.
(43:55):
Every once in a while I would dothat meditation over again and
kind of gut check.
And then I started thinkinglike, would little Jenny be
proud of this?
Would little Jenny, you know,would teenager Jenny be proud of
this?
Who was I all those years ago?
And like it has been I've saidit a couple times it's been life
changing doing this work and,and you know, people are like
(44:17):
jumping on this big bandwagon,like, oh, I want to.
You know, manifest abundance andyou know, whatever these are
such buzzwords now that I don'tlike saying it, I don't like
talking about manifestinganymore because I'm like, oh
gosh, it sounds like such likecrap the way that people have
been putting it out there.
The work if you find the rightguides and that's where, like,
eleanor comes in here and herenergy is so good and I will a
(44:41):
hundred percent back her up herebecause you have to find the
right person for you.
You have to do the actual work,because it's not just topical.
You do have have to think toyourself like who am I really
Like?
What have I done this wholetime and what path do I really
want to go down to be able toget to like really being myself?
(45:02):
Once you tap into your actual,authentic self, you will see
shifts, like big shifts, and thelast three years I can attest
like has been so transformativeand I'm in such a place right
now where I wake up everymorning.
I'm like I feel so blessed.
I'm not a millionaire, I'm notmaking loads, I don't have
(45:23):
millions of downloads on mypodcast, but I feel blessed
because I get to connect withpeople like Eleanor, I get to
connect with all of my otherguests and if there's just one
person that's hearing thisepisode and walks away and says,
like, let me, let me take alook at these links that Jenny
put in the resources, let me,let me see what else I can do to
help myself If one person'slife changes because of this
conversation.
That is what I'm here for.
(45:44):
That's the whole purpose ofthis podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's when you create from such a place, even
accessing creation energy, eventhat is offline, it is
challenging to access when youare in such deep survival mode,
so many.
Some parts of us may bethriving, but other parts of us
are atrophied, neglected andabandoned and meshed, being
(46:07):
siphoned by the use of othersaround us.
So they're using our own poweror, you know, our own energy,
then accessing creation energyand creation without limitation,
which is our birthright.
Of course, people are stuck andit's you can't just tell them
to just go out and do something.
(46:27):
They may not have access tothat energy, and that's what I
really appreciated withastrology.
It started showing that.
You know, why does Jenny havethis ability to do this so
naturally, same as human design,which we also work with.
Why can this person just dothis?
And for me it's so hard.
You know my partner's reallyplayful and light, but for me to
access that same energy, for meit's intercepted.
(46:49):
I don't have that same accessas well.
So that's what came to me whenyou were mentioning that as well
, and I like also that you saidit's guides, because guides are
oh yeah.
I don't say the way of thefuture, but that's where things
are going, because all healingis self-healing and the deeper
that you can enable someone elseto access within themselves and
(47:10):
to get to higher realms, likehigher and deep are the same.
When we're talking about thespiritual work, that's where it
has to, that's where it goes,because even when I first came
across the concept of the innerchild, it was devastating and I
put out photos of me that Ihaven't looked at for years and
that, forgetting that I did thisto a child who was so pure and
(47:33):
who deserved so much better.
And before I go into that, somepeople might be listening and
go well, that wasn't too bad.
Comparing someone's directexperience of their reality to
someone else's is soinvalidating and crippling to
the person who had thatexperience.
Because what my soul came intothis lifetime, for the soul
(47:56):
chose that the soul is against,like we did soul contracts as
well.
That's how I came across it,because it's like there were
decisions made and I wasn't evenat the meeting and I'm the one
having to and I'm the one heretrying to figure it out and
reverse engineer everything.
But my direct experience is youknow, I did not incarnate as a
third world child or I did notincarnate to learn certain
(48:19):
lessons.
So when people, especially inthe journey and it happens quite
early on you may haveexperienced it as well, but that
just invalidating yourexperience and how you are
trying to feel is onto itselfcausing trauma.
You know it's still.
You know when people saying, oh, just just get, just get over
(48:39):
it, just integrate it.
It's like you try, integrateyou.
Yeah, there's a lot of flatadvice when it around this
because, again, the language andpeople I've not visited that
far deep into themselves.
So, guides is a guide.
I love that word, I love theenergy of the word and those
that have truly done the work.
(48:59):
You can't fake it.
So it's yeah, I like how yousaid that there.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, and honestly, it's real.
And that's also, like you know,it's interesting because the
energies will align and you'llbe able to sense, like, if
you're seeking a guide, right,like, let's say, like you're
listening to this, you're likeyou know, I really do want to
work with someone and you'reseeking someone out.
You can sense, almost in thefirst couple of minutes of a
conversation, sometimes like, goto your.
We talked about feelings andhow.
That's like your barometer,that's like a step 1.1.
(49:29):
In like, recognize yourfeelings.
Do you feel good in this moment?
That's like a huge like itemwhere you can say, like, okay,
now I can use this as myinternal guide.
Is this moment authentic to me?
Is this really where I want tobe?
Is this conversation reallywhat a conversation I want to be
having?
Like that's really your firststop.
And that applies to, again, yourprofession, your romantic
(49:52):
relationships, it applies toyour family relationship.
Just because it's familydoesn't mean that it's not toxic
.
Oh, it's like ever.
I remember growing up and I waslike, oh, you know, your blood,
blood is thicker than water.
Like you know, your family's,your family always show for your
family, doesn't matter whatthey do.
And I'm like kind of does,because, like toxic family
members that are your bloodlines, I love you from a distance.
(50:14):
I will.
If anything ever happened, I'llbe there.
But we don't have to be in eachother's energies all the time
because we're not in alignmentwith each other and I'm not at a
at this point in my life.
I'm very protective of myenergy space.
My husband and I are veryprotective of, like, who we
invite into our space, how weallow people to interact here,
because we work so hard as acouple, as a unit and as a
(50:35):
family unit to make sure this isa peaceful household and make
sure that we feel the energy isgood energy here.
And it's very interestingbecause there have been
instances where we've had, youknow, parties and this and that
and we actually can feel thedepletion afterwards.
It's very interesting becauseat the end of the day we're like
(50:55):
we can sense when it's gonegood and we're like, oh, this
felt good or whatever.
But then we can also sense whenthere's been a body present and
it only has to be one, that'sright, it only has to be one
body and when that one body ispresent and we feel that that
pull, we both recognize itimmediately.
My husband's very in tune tothat kind of thing.
So we both are like, oh, thisis a bad energy, like okay,
(51:15):
let's move on.
You know like it's you have topay attention and it sounds.
It might sound silly if it's thefirst time you're hearing
something like this, but it'sincredibly important.
That's right.
I like I've so enjoyed thisconversation with you.
I could probably talk to youfor like six hours, like
straight, and we could do likeit doesn't happen all the time
(51:41):
to me, but when it does happen,I'm like, oh my gosh, we can
keep going.
Um, do you have any, anythingthat you would really like the
listeners to walk away from withthis episode?
Is there something that's inyour mind right now?
Tip of your tongue.
Like I really want thelisteners to hear this.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
There's two most important questions in the
experience called life, andthat's who and what am I?
The relentless pursuit toanswer that across all time,
space continuum, across alldimensions, across all lifetimes
, so on, so forth, is the mostvaluable thing, because what
else is there for a self to doother than experience it, other
(52:15):
than to experience it?
It's other than to experienceitself over and over and over
again.
Why do we incarnate?
There is so much to experience,and that's what this journey is
about.
So falling in love with thediscovery is so important on
this journey, because only thencan you arrive at truth.
And when you arrive at truth,the illusions dissipate, and
(52:37):
that's how you get to the richerexpression of you.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Thank you that was so well put.
Listeners, I'm going to linkall of Eleanor's information in
the description of this episode.
I want you to look into her, Iwant you to check her out.
Her energy is really good.
I know you're not with me, live, but her energy is really good.
(53:00):
I know you're not with me, live, but her energy is really
fabulous for a while anyway.
So, yeah, I mean, and honestly,if you're, you're in a point in
your life where, like I'm, I'munhappy, there is a way to get
yourself back in alignment.
There is a way to do this, andit doesn't have to be this
shockingly awful event.
You can just make the decisiontoday things I want things to be
and you can just start takingthose baby steps, because that's
really what it is.
Eleanor, thank you so much forjoining the show today.
(53:20):
I greatly appreciate youlending your story and your
experience to the listeners.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Thank you so much for the space, for the energy and
your intention, and I love theseconversations because they give
permission when people in ourworlds will not grant you the
permission to deconstruct andthen become who you were always
meant to be.
So thank you so much, jenny.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Of course, and listeners.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today and we will catch
you on the next one.
Take care.
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