May 11, 2025 • 51 mins
Mekdela Ejigu, author of "Plus Size" and beauty justice activist, shares how her memoir connects pop culture consumption with personal experiences to reveal intersecting systems of oppression that shape our identities and perceptions.
• Started writing during political chaos to ground herself, discovering connections between media consumed and lived experiences
• Confronted racial blindspots in America through personal experience and critical analysis
• Discussed how childhood experiences become "the air we breathe for the rest of our lives"
• Explored inner child healing as a pathway to authentic happiness and fulfillment
• Examined how media portrayal of unrealistic beauty standards damages self-image
• Challenged ageist narratives that tell women they "expire" at 40
• Revealed the connection between toxic beauty products (like hair relaxers) and serious health conditions
• Advocated for beauty justice and body diversity across all institutions and media
Find Mekdela at plussizebook.com, on Twitter and TikTok @plussizebook, and on Instagram see below!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody.
This is Still Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I'm very excited to introduceall of you today to our guest.
Today we have with us McDellaEjigu.
She's the author of Plus Size,a memoir of pop culture,
fatphobia and social change.
She's also a beauty justiceactivist and body diversity
(00:22):
advocate.
She has a feminist studiespre-law BA and a public policy
MA graduate, with over a decadeof community organizing, policy
advocacy and communicationsexperience.
She also worked with theEthiopian Diaspora Fellowship in
Los Angeles.
She promoted leadership andcreative storytelling while
(00:42):
training Ethiopian Americans towork for partner organizations
in Ethiopia.
Magdala, I mean wow is like anunderstatement and also welcome
to the show.
I mean this is it's amazing totalk with you because you're
doing so much and you're givingback so much.
I read about you in advance andI'm just I'm very honored that
you chose this podcast to comein and talk and introduce
(01:03):
yourself.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm really enjoying talking to you too.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So, mcdella, why don't you take a moment,
introduce yourself to thelisteners and maybe talk a
little bit about how you decidedto author your memoir, the
Memoir of Pop Culture, and evenI mean your policy work?
Anywhere you want to go, I mean, the listeners are ready for
you.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Absolutely.
Hi everybody.
My name is McDella and I am theauthor of Plus Size, a memoir
of pop culture, fat phobia andsocial change.
I am also, like a lifelongadvocate and activist, including
beauty justice activist, butI've noticed that all systems of
(01:48):
oppression are connected, so itall kind of overlaps.
And how I came about writing mybook is that I was a community
organizer in communities ofcolor in Los Angeles right
before Trump was elected in 2016.
(02:08):
And it was just complete andutter chaos.
I mean, we were running aroundlike chickens with their heads
cut off and I was just sent intofree fall.
And so, in order to like kindof ground ground myself, to like
find something that I couldlike hold on, to like something
(02:29):
concrete to stabilize myself, Istarted writing a blog, and this
blog I just, you know, I justkind of like was sorting out my
thoughts and my memories andexperiences, and it it went all
over the place, right, but itjust started with my childhood
(02:50):
and it became about the mediathat I had consumed throughout
my life and how it ended upmirroring what was happening to
me, and I realized that therewas a connection, and so that's
what inspired me to compile andcreate.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's interesting.
Well, how do you phrase that up?
So I want to circle on a couplethings.
I think all minorities and allof us those of us who are in,
you know, mixed marriages andeverything we're all very
nervous during that time, andeven in the recent time, like I
mean it's very hard to describeit and, honestly, like I'm like
(03:31):
tip of the iceberg because it'sjust, I'm just interracial
marriage, but to to for me towitness the other side like
firsthand was not shocking,because when we started dating,
that was more of the shock.
And I actually want I'll, and Iwant to talk about that for a
minute, because I know that youalso are well-versed in critical
(03:51):
race theory too.
So I'll talk about this for asecond.
I I, when I started dating myhusband and I'm going to admit
this and I feel so stupid but Iactually came into the
relationship and was like no,but like racism isn't a thing
anymore, right?
And he was like well, we met in2010.
(04:12):
He was like what are youtalking about?
And he actually got and I feel Ifeel really stupid.
Honestly, I feel stupid sayingit because that is like such an
example of the bubble, yeah, andlike because I obviously
wouldn't know.
There's no way I would know,there's no way I would ever
witness it.
There was no, there's no wayI'm going to pay attention to it
.
I had no idea.
(04:33):
The only time that I started toactually see things was when we
would go out together and Istarted to see how people
reacted and I was like is thatare you kidding me right now?
Where we wouldn't get served atplaces we were getting pulled
over like consistently and I wasgetting pulled out of the car
and they were basically beinglike Are you okay?
I'm like that's my, myboyfriend.
(04:54):
Like what are you talking about?
Like there was these consistentmoments of like oh my God, like
Jenny, like open your eyes,kind of thing, and the part that
was more not shocking butbecame more of a wow, like you
know, the Caucasian race or thewhite race, the you know other
(05:15):
people, like we were not seeingthese things and we're turning a
blind eye to all of this stuff.
We're turning a blind eye to it.
And the part that was likedisturbing for me was, like my
own family being like, what areyou talking about?
Like you're crazy, like, no,this is in your head or no,
you're overreacting.
And I was like, oh my God,you're gaslighting.
I was like, oh my God, and itwas like this whole big mind
(05:37):
blowing like thing.
So that in itself, like I know,I know that time was was very,
very frightening for a lot offolks.
So I want to commend you onfinding something tangible like
your blog to channel everythinginto, and then from your blog,
being like I have something herethat can help other people.
Yeah, so I haven't, I've neverwritten something like I've
(06:00):
never written anything, period.
I mean I'm working on somethingright now, but I mean, how, how
did it feel to pull togetheryour thoughts in that way
Because there's obviouslysomething very personal and then
to put it into paper?
I mean, how did you know, like,what to focus in on?
Like, how did you take it, takeaway from your blog and decide,
like these are my main points,and I haven't read your book yet
, so I'm asking the questionvery cold yet.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So I'm asking the question very cold.
So I, you know, I realized thatit told a story, like with the
media that I had consumed andhow they kind of mirrored my
lived experiences throughout mylife, like over time.
I realized that it told a storyand so I I wrote that book to
tell that story.
And it's not linear, right,it's nonlinear, it kind of jumps
(06:50):
around in terms of time and mylife, but it really I feel like
it really illuminates howsystems of oppression you know,
racism, sexism, classism,ableism, capitalism, colonialism
how they operate in the world,how they shape our lives and how
(07:12):
at least the media, during thetime I was raised, kind of
echoed that.
It kind of gave it a platformfor which people would
internalize those things andthen become, you know, the very
people enforcing these systemsin their personal lives.
And you could say that is truefor the media today as well.
(07:35):
I mean, it's promoting, andit's not just the media, there's
other institutions.
You know the medical industrialcomplex, the beauty industrial
complex, even the school system.
You know there's a lot of otherinstitutions that also uphold
these systems in their ways.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You know I can, I can speak to the medical quite a
bit because of the work that Ido.
And it's very interesting againto see the other side of the
curtain because I work inmarketing and communications and
so I know what goes into thethought process for we're going
to launch this product.
(08:15):
How are we going to launch thisproduct Like?
What are we going to do?
Are we going to launch this?
You know like and I understandlike the backdrop to a lot of
these things.
So when I do see stuff playingout and I see commercials or I
see like and I see how thecommercials are set up, my job
on my side of the fence is tocreate this content, you know,
for these, for these largeorganizations, and so when I see
(08:36):
the targeted, the very targetedand very specific things that
are put out there, you can tell,you can very definitively see
and I don't know if it's becausenow we're all just much more
aware of it, but you can see theagenda pushing and you can see
that there is a, there is areason.
We, we want you, you need tosee this Like.
We're pushing this in your face.
(08:57):
I see it in my children's TVshows.
It's the wildest thing I'veever seen in my life.
But we'll watch.
Like you know, we don't alwaysscreen everything.
You know.
Like it's.
What am I going to?
I'm not going to spend hours aday pre screening shows that the
kids are watching, but we'realways within the vicinity and
I'm painfully aware of like themedia images that are being
(09:18):
pushed to my children, becausewhen I was growing up and I'll
go more towards like the fatphobia, like that side of the
fence when I was growing up, theimage was always like you know,
the very slim, tall, blondehair, blue eyes, very princess,
that's all you got and that was.
It's never been me.
I'm tall, but I am nothing, youknow.
(09:38):
And and so when I was growingup, I and I remember like I saw
a post recently actually, thatwas saying like you know, no
wonder why all of us have hadlike eating disorders and all
this crazy stuff.
Because they showed images oflike it was like Bridget Jones's
diary, there was like a Beyonce, like there was a bunch of them
, and it was like we were toldthat these people are fat and
(09:58):
then they showed pictures andI'm like, oh my God, by no means
were any of these womenoverweight, but the storylines
and the plots around all thesewomen were like oh look, she
gained, you know, five pounds.
Or oh, look this like.
And it was a constant like oh,you know, you need to look like
this certain way, like this iswhat's being funneled to you.
So for a very long time, I feltcompletely out of place Because
(10:22):
by the time I was 11, or 12years old, I was like five, six
and I think I weighed like 140pounds.
I was like towering overeveryone in my grammar school
and I felt like there wassomething wrong with me and I
was like, oh, like I'm like afreak, you know, and it's that
kind of messaging that you know,I'm very aware of and I try
(10:43):
really hard to teach my childrendifferently and while they're
seeing all these images beforethey get inundated when they
become teenagers, I'm trying toaddress it now, that's very good
.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah, they're lucky to have you.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So a little bit more on your book.
So it's pop culture, fat phobiaand social change.
So did you use social media inyour study of all this Like?
Did you pull through elementsof like, because social media is
like a huge thing where I meaneveryone's getting their
information from social mediaand like even health information
, like everything's coming offof social media now.
So is that really?
(11:21):
Is that where you started topull through like, through lines
for everything, and to see likelooking up information?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
reading up on these topics and and I ended up, I
(11:50):
guess, the research kind ofstuck in my brain, because when
I was writing this I literallyjust I didn't even have to
search for it.
I just remembered off the backof my head like what studies and
articles and research that Iread in the past and that I was
able to cite.
And it just shows how educationworks right, like it's not just
(12:10):
a one and done.
You read these things and youunderstand what they're saying
and then you kind of likeinternalize it, you incorporate
it into your own, yourviewpoints, or at least that's
the goal and that's kind of whathappened to me.
So it was like I didn't evenhave to really seek out because
I just remembered what I hadseen in my own like studies.
(12:32):
And yeah, that's what I hopefor readers to, that they're
able to like digest and justinternalize it into their lives.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, I have to tell you because that's the way that
you retain the information itthe book it's.
I'm very excited to to tell youbecause that's the way that you
retain the information, thebook.
I'm very excited to read thebook because that alone, like I
can understand that I lovereading.
I don't get to do it quite asmuch as I used to, but now,
because I read so much when I'myounger, when I was younger, and
(13:05):
I mean I started, you know,obviously, kid stuff when I was
a kid, but the older I got, themore I was like I need to expand
my knowledge.
I can't just know this onething, I need to really
understand.
You know, x, y and z.
I I would pick up like justtopics and I was, like you know,
like, for example, like at onepoint I was like I'm, I was born
and raised Catholic but I'm notpracticing.
So I was like, oh, let me justpick up this book on the Vatican
(13:25):
.
I've never, I don't knowanything about this, you know,
let me look it up.
And I was like totally shockedbecause this book that I picked
up was not about, like you know,traditions and Catholicism, it
was about, like, the history ofthe Vatican, which I was very
surprised to read that, like youknow, the Pope used to have
(13:45):
concubines and like all thisstuff and I was like, oh well,
that that's interesting becausethat means that the church has
like decided that we're going tojust kind of go, you know,
pretend like that didn't happenand you know, like it's very
interesting.
So I'm a really big advocate oflike, look it up.
Research.
It don't just take something atface value.
Put the time and effort intoeducating yourself.
(14:06):
I've seen a lot of women onInstagram not Instagram, excuse
me on LinkedIn is the platformthat I'll always go to for like
stuff and just readinginformation, and some of the
women that I follow have saidthat they're like, don't ask me
to educate you, educate yourself.
Here's some resources.
Go, go look it up, like figureit out, because the whole point
is like what you said.
(14:26):
You know, if this is somethingof value to you, you're gonna
read about it.
You're gonna read that article,read that book, whatever it is,
you're gonna retain it, andthen that's going to be
imprinted with you and like justlike how this book came
together.
This was like all these thingsthat you were already interested
in and then you were able toproduce this book, and this book
(14:47):
is, I'm sure, having an impacton everyone who touches it?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Definitely, yeah, one of my favorite things is
reading reviews, and people talkabout learning so much, even
though it's a very compact notvery, it's a very quick book,
under 100 pages but they learnso much and they enjoy it.
It's interesting for them andthey take away so much from it
(15:10):
too.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, I'm excited.
I'm excited to read up, readabout it.
So what?
So what else are you doingright now?
So you wrote the book.
Is there outside of the book?
I mean, is there a book too?
Or is there like, is thereoutside of the book, I mean, is
there a book too?
Or is there like, is theresomething else that you think
that, from the book, you'd liketo communicate this message to
the listeners today?
Is there like a, a topic youthink that would be really
(15:35):
important for you to speak on?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
definitely.
You know, I am um kind ofmarinating in the back of my
head a book too, and the topicwould be on healing my inner
child.
You know, because I definitelytouched on my inner child.
You know, inner child in thebook.
You know some of my essays werewritten from her perspective
(16:00):
because it kind of charts, youknow, the formation of my
identity and my mind from veryyoung and you know, even having
been in therapy.
There's this one quote from oneof the therapists that I used
to work with, and she saidchildhood is the air we breathe
(16:21):
for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And I do.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I do touch on that in the book and I kind of want to
like expand on that in the next,in another book.
But it's so true, like the moreI live, the more I realize,
like how much you know.
And it makes sense because ourchildhood is when we first you
know our brains are the mostmalleable right, when we're
(16:45):
learning about the world and ourplace in it and ourselves.
And especially if you havetraumatic experiences from that
time, it can really like make orbreak you.
It can really like get stuck inyour subconscious, your psyche,
and then literally shape everysingle experience you have
afterwards.
(17:05):
Yeah, there's even scienceabout that, like ACEs, adverse
childhood experiences, about howtraumatic childhood experiences
lead to, or they're more likelyto lead to, you know, physical
and mental health diseases lateron in life as an adult, because
(17:27):
it's you know, it's stillimpacting you throughout your
life.
But of course it's not all doomand gloom.
Like there's ways to to healright, there's ways to heal that
, to get you know, to get yourlife and yourself back, and
that's where the healing, theinner child, comes in.
(17:47):
And so it's a very fascinating,fascinating topic.
But on a more positive note,there's also research on how
making your inner child happycan lead you to fall in love
with someone.
It could just make you ahappier person in general.
(18:07):
Just being in touch with yourinner child and what you used to
love is kind of the key tohappiness as well.
Like, for example, it would belike maybe grown women who
really wanted to play withBarbies when they were younger,
or even maybe grown men ornon-binary people who were not
assigned female at birth, whoreally wanted to play with
(18:30):
Barbies or toys that areassociated with girls as a child
, but they weren't allowed to,either because they couldn't
afford them or their parentswere Exactly so as an adult, you
know.
Say, like giving a gift,gifting that person like a
Barbie doll, you know, couldreally make them happy and it
(18:51):
could really make their innerchild happy and heal something
that was, you know, previouslymissing or that was hurt, you
know.
And there was this one, therewas this one article.
I don't know if it's scientificexactly, but they said that
that's like a way to getsomebody to fall in love.
Like, if you want someone tofall in love with you, one of
(19:13):
the best ways to do that is toum, to give them something that
they they didn't get to have inchildhood that they really
wanted, or to remind themsomehow of their childhood,
obviously like a good or likehappy aspect of their childhood,
not a traumatic one.
Um, and somebody commented andI don't know if this is true, it
(19:33):
could just be a wacky rumor,but it really amused me they
were like that's what MeghanMarkle did.
Meghan Markle wore PrincessDiana's perfume on her first
date with Harry and I'm likethat's a perfect example, or I'm
sorry, meghan Sussex you knowwhat I will say.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Perhaps it was that, in combination with the fact
that she also is not trying tograb the spotlight, you know, I
I did pay attention a little bitthere and Harry was never one
for the spotlight and Meganembodied a lot of that, and I
think that's what it was and Iwanted to add to what you're
saying because you're absolutelyspot on and there what you can
(20:15):
expand on a little bit more past, like the physical, like a
present, and it's also maybeyou're bringing safety and peace
to somebody that had a reallytumultuous life and was just
seeking out some peace in theirlife and you're the person who
brought it to them and that'sreally going to fill them up
from, like that childhood and itaddresses those childhood needs
(20:37):
.
If you are and I've said thison other podcast episodes if
you're feeling reallyunfulfilled in your life and you
are stuck and you feel likebecause I, you know, 40s is like
the year, the age right, wherewe all like reexamine ourselves
and and I've noticed that I'veseen people myself and everybody
(20:59):
going into their 40s and I'mlike, oh, we all kind of did it,
we all had to reexamine ourlives and one of the things that
, like, I've noticed and I knewfor myself was I had to a couple
I started a couple years backwhere I was getting like I'm
feeling stuck.
I'm feeling like I I went downthis whole path of corporate
because I felt like I needed togo that path, or I should go
(21:20):
that path, because that's thesuccess and that's the money and
that's where everything is.
And I got to a certain pointand I was like, oh my god, I
feel like my soul is beingsucked out of my body, exactly
like I'm doing this now, and I'mlike really not happy because
I'm not spending time with myfamily and my priority is like
working 15 hours a day.
I'm like this sucks, like Idon't want to do this, like and
(21:44):
I went through this whole periodof almost like rediscovering
Jenny and it sounds so likehippie dippy, but like it's
legitimately, like this is alegitimate practice and it
completely changed my life.
And I went through this wholelike online virtual course.
I was doing other stuff, wewere doing business things too,
but we also talked about thispart and I think I might have
(22:05):
told you in my, in our introcall, I did this, this
meditation, that I because Imeditate every day too, too.
So I, when I was learning tomeditate through this course,
the meditation was addressingyour younger selves, and so it
was like a 30 minute guidedmeditation and you address like
your child, and then you addresslike teen or mid 20s, you know
(22:26):
whatever like intervals you feltlike were necessary.
When I addressed like childJenny, I was like sobbing.
You know, like you, you go sofar and you're like, oh yeah,
like I've accomplished a lot.
I have money, I have the house.
Like I have the cars None ofthat actually matters, like
that's all.
We've created this whole likesociety where you need these hot
(22:49):
cars, you need this big house,you need to go on vacations, and
now social media is like takingyou even further.
You need to be showered withflowers and you need this and
you need that.
You don't actually need any ofit.
The real root of your happinessis going to come from yourself
and it's going to come frominside.
So if you're broken because younever really addressed your
childhood and you didn'tacknowledge all these times in
(23:12):
your life that you've gonethrough and you're not embracing
it and acknowledging it andpaying homage to it, then that's
where you're going to feelbroken and that's when you're
going to start feelingdisjointed and disconnected and
you people will live their wholelives with this disconnection
and continuing on down a path oflike, oh, I should do this, I
should be doing that, andthey're not really addressing
that inner turmoil and then theydie.
(23:34):
That's it.
Like you know, we only reallywell, I don't know if I believe
it's only one shot at this, butlike, let's say we only get one
shot at this, like let's do it,let's do it Right, let's address
that inner child and that youknow what you've gone through
and bring it to the next level.
When I did that, I alsoremembered how much I used to
like being creative.
(23:55):
I haven't been, I hadn't beencreative in years Like I mean I,
I used to love to.
I did creative writing all thetime when I was a kid, all the
way up through high school.
I did it until my parentsdivorced and then broken.
Jenny like just tossed it outthe window and just stopped and
that's where, like and it youknow the whole journey I went
(24:15):
through brought me to thispodcast and it brought me to
being, you know, a podcast hostand it brought me to developing
it and launching it and wantingto do all this and that's why
I'm always like I will get on asoapbox and I will talk about it
for forever, because I'm likethis is really crucial.
Like so many of us aredisconnected and disjointed
(24:38):
because we're not addressingthese inner things.
We were told growing up to justkind of sweep it under the rug
and to like keep your head downand keep moving forward.
And you know, mental healthwasn't a thing for our parents.
Like they didn't address that.
I don't know about your parents, but my parents weren't like
real big on like oh yeah, mentalhealth, make sure you guys are
okay.
That wasn't a thing when I wasgrowing up.
So now it needs to be and weneed to be paying attention to
this.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I'm so glad you brought that up About, you know,
being a woman in her 40s and,you know, starting to realize
how your inner child wounds havebeen still kind of present all
along and working through that.
One of my actually maybe thefavorite show I have right now
that's still airing is calledyellow jackets and it's it's
(25:19):
about that, pretty much thedramatization of that.
It's it.
It's a um, a split show, solike half of the time of the
show is spent in modern dayright in to 2025, depending on
the season and the main cast arewomen in their 40s, and these
(25:40):
women are still living theaftermath of what happened to
them when they were teen girls.
They were on a very competitivehigh school soccer team and
they were flying to acompetition and they got into a
plane crash and they landed inthe wilderness in the middle of
(26:01):
nowhere and they had to survivethere in the wild for 19 months.
Oh God, yeah, yeah.
19 months.
Oh God, yeah, yeah.
And so the you know the firstepisode starts out with the 40
year old women contending with,you know, reporters that are
still like at their throats,trying to get the whole story,
(26:22):
the scoop of what really wentout when, what really went on
out there, because there was alot of rumors, you know, about
cannibalism and things that theyhad to do in order to survive.
But the 40 year old women arelike nope, like they have like a
patch that they're not going tosay anything to the press and
you see them just trying to livetheir lives, but they're still
(26:45):
literally and metaphoricallyhaunted by what happened in the
woods and what they did.
And so the show, like after wesee them in the present day, the
show flashes back to when theywere teenagers, from the plane
crash and through the 19 months,and it kind of like builds that
story of like what happened outthere, and then we see them,
(27:07):
and then we go back to seeingthem dealing with the aftermath
20 years later, and so there'sthis kind of continuity between
the teenage girl and the womanthat she becomes right.
So we see the connection, thecontinuity and how that
traumatic experience isultimately shaping their lives,
(27:30):
you know, 20 years later, aswomen.
And so I feel like it is reallyabout trauma and healing.
Also it's like a Lord of theFlies situation, where it's
about, like, the inherentbrutality and viciousness and
violent nature of human beings,especially in like survival
situations, but also kind oflike your past coming back to
(27:54):
haunt you, right like there's aliteral supernatural element
where there was something in thewoods with them that was
stalking them and it it mighthave caught up to them in
civilization, and so it's.
It's really good.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I like that yeah, is that on netflix?
Like, can you give me more?
Like where is that?
Where's that streaming?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
the first season is on netflix, uh, but the whole,
like there's three seasons.
At this point they're in themiddle of airing the third
season and that's that's onfridays at 8 pm on paramount
plus and showtime online, and Ithink it's on showtime if you
have cable uh sundays atsometime in the night I'm gonna
check it out when I have.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's so funny, like every time I talk with a new
guest I get like a newrecommendation.
I have like a notebook full oflike I need like a couple of
weeks of Jenny time.
Yeah, I'm gonna bother me so Icould read all these books.
And because it's like I meaneveryone, whenever someone comes
on the podcast, you guys alwaysgive me like great
recommendations for things.
(28:51):
Um, no, I, I do.
I I've always known, you know, Iwas very interested in
psychology when I was growing upand I and mental health
disorders, unfortunately, wererampant in my family, but I was
not doing anything about it,just, you know, medicating, and
so it's.
I think it's important to.
So it's.
I think it's important to toreally address the root cause
(29:14):
and to be able to get past it.
And you know and I'll use anexample too of like anxiety, I
have terrible anxiety.
I and I was sharing this withmy cousin the other day that I I
have anxiety when I leave myhouse, like when I have to go
drive far distances by myself.
I get anxious about that, andthat was like a new thing that
(29:37):
happened in the last couple ofyears.
I've never had that problembefore, and so I, I self talk
myself through it and you know,there's I think there's a large
part of once you do the work tounderstand yourself and to
understand where there has beentrauma or to understand, like,
where things might have gonewrong, then you can take the
next step and saying like, well,actually I know how to address
(29:59):
these things as they come up,because it never actually goes
away.
The reality of it is we do gothrough these things in our life
.
You recognize it, you honor it,understand like it did happen.
I went through this thing.
It doesn't even have to be thattraumatic, to be perfectly
honest with you.
It could be anything thatimpacts your life.
And then you kind of you moveon from there.
The trick is, when you do havethe trigger again and you start
(30:20):
to have your trigger response isto be able to say I actually
know what this is and so I getanxiety when I'm leaving the
house, when I have to leave mykids and my husband, I get
anxiety about it.
I'm like I'm leaving my nest,I'll leave my children, and I
immediately start in my headlike I've woken up, like from
like.
So my most recent trip that Ihad to take was for work and I
(30:42):
had to get up like in the middleof the night to go, you know,
do something, do a meeting, andI was driving really far out of
state and so well, one I startedrecording a podcast episode on
drive because I was like I'm soanxious, like let me just talk
this out to my listeners.
So that's kind of what I did,privately in my head.
I will talk to myself and belike All right, jenny, you're
(31:04):
not actually in any danger, notreally anxious right now.
This is just like your mind andthis and that, and you know
that this isn't real and it'sokay.
You can get through this andit's a matter of understanding
and recognizing yourself.
And then, like you can moveforward from there and it truly
it sounds super simple and it'slike no, it can't be that, but
it is.
Once you do the work to getthrough everything and you can
(31:26):
recognize, like why do I haveanxiety, or why am I feeling
like this, or you know I haven'taddressed certain things, like
you can then move forward fromthere, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Absolutely Exactly.
You know and you think like yousaid.
You think if, even if you arehappen to be successful, you get
married, have kids, have a nicehouse and car, you think you're
past it, you think you don'thave to worry about that anymore
.
But you know, as you said, youdo, cause it catches up to you
(31:55):
and you have to address it.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Exactly.
And you know one thing I wantto talk with you, too, about um
before our our our session isdone.
Um, because we've talked aboutthe inner child and I touched a
little bit on you know that thatI was raised, was raised
Catholic, but I don't reallypractice anymore the
spirituality element of ourlives, and because I very deeply
(32:22):
know that there is somethingbigger and grander out there
that I'm very, very well awareof it.
You know, I being Catholic,it's very interesting.
There's a lot of rules whenyou're Catholic, like lots of
them, and one of the things that, like, you're basically told
like this is it, this is theonly way, this is it.
(32:43):
Everyone else is incorrect,this is it.
And, as I mentioned, you know,when I had read that book on the
Vatican, when I started doingmy own research on things, I
realized how much human handshad manipulated the story.
And I use this, I use this atwork too.
I always say, like, wheneverhuman hands have touched
(33:04):
something, then there's room forerror, whatever it is, and it
has to go to editorial that'swork Right.
But in life, I'm like, well, ifhuman hands have touched that,
that means somebody had anopinion and they shaped this
exactly what they wanted this tobe, exactly so you really have
to, for your spirituality, thinkto yourself about, like, well,
(33:25):
what, what's the roots here?
What am I going to get back to?
Because there's no way thatthere's only one religion.
There's no way, it's notpossible.
There's so many beautifulreligions out there.
I mean just beautiful,beautiful customs and traditions
that really lift and raise thespirit, that are not Catholic.
And I'm like, how could thesebeautiful, these beautiful
(33:48):
religions be, you know,condemned just because they're
not like going to this oneparticular church or, you know,
following these one particularrules?
My mother, by the way, if sheever hears this episode, will be
very upset with me, like she'llbe very mad that I'm even
talking like this.
But to me, spirituality isreally like it's from within and
it's something that connectsyou.
(34:09):
For me, I call it the universe,the grander universe, you know,
and it's energies and it's anexchange of energy, and that's
really to me like that's theroot here and that's something
that I've practiced now for likethree years and I've done it
through meditation, I've done itthrough like a lot of different
practices, but that's actuallywhat I lean more into and I'm
(34:32):
going to be honest with you.
As soon as I started leaningmore into my spirituality and
these practices of meditationand affirmations and really,
really like the chakras and allthis stuff, it just makes so
much sense.
It's like the light bulb hascome on, if you will.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
It's so funny.
When you said that, the powergeneration, just the power
generator, I thought literallycame on.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I know, yeah, right, kind of freaked me out a little
bit, I'm like oh did I justilluminate her so funny.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
But, yeah, no, thank you so much for for telling me
this and, um, I love hearingfrom you, know, women in a
different generation from me, um, as you mentioned that you're
in your 40s and and like youwere kind of like in the same
strain that you were saying,like I think the reason you know
, especially women, I meanpeople generally, but especially
(35:29):
women, um, in their 40s andonwards, but sometimes even like
anybody, any woman over 25,right, like, if you know,
there's this idea like if you'retoo old, uh, for leonardo
dicaprio to date you, your lifeis over, basically, and so and
that's the idea, there is thisvery terrible misogynist idea
(35:52):
that a woman's prime, or, youknow, women, only matter when
they're in their early 20s oreven childbearing years.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Is that what you're yeah, yeah, patriarchal thing to
say?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
That's your value.
Is that young, fresh and beable to produce lives?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
That's it Exactly young, fresh and be able to
produce lives that's it exactly,and it's tied to our beauty
standards, which are very muchlike you said in the beginning,
which is what I saw from themedia.
Growing up, you have to be, youknow, white, white, uh, very
thin there was no, there was norepresentation at all, like
exactly very thin, straight hairand also young, like you had to
(36:31):
be in your teens or early 20s.
That is beautiful, and so sopeople have this idea,
especially, you know, for agingwomen, uh, especially, but
people in general, they kind ofjust like give up on themselves
after a while.
They think that you know theirlives, your life ends at 30.
And you know, you're just kindof cruising after that and so,
(36:53):
and beauty standards are part ofwhat is making people feel that
way, and so that's anotherthing that I love about yellow
jackets and the representationit.
You know the stars, stars, youknow women in their 40s and also
you know their teenagecounterparts, who are being
played by teenage actresses, ofcourse, but it shows you that
(37:14):
you know.
It kind of like promotes theidea of like life doesn't end at
30 you know, you know it's socrazy because you're absolutely
right, by the way.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
I mean, I remember as I got older.
First of all, I'll say this Imet my husband when I was 26.
And I remember at that point Iactually had already felt like I
was getting too old.
Right, yeah, I need to getmarried.
Oh, my God, oh, the clock isticking If I don't get married
now and have kids in two years.
Like I don't want to be, likean old mom.
(37:45):
So I got to make sure that Igot to get married quick.
Well, first of all, my husbandwas like no, we're not.
Like he like put the kibosh onthat.
He's nine years older than me.
So he was like no, like he hadalready, he knew and he had
experience already.
He already had two kids when wemet and he was like no, like no
, I learned so much from him.
It was like it's astoundingjust because he was older and
able to like really be like no,like this is nonsense, like
(38:08):
really think about this, jen.
Um, but the ageism is there andI remember being like my
friends were all getting marriedagain, like everyone was
married by 25, everybody and Iwas.
I was like the last manstanding and because, and they
were like, why are you like, oh,you don't want to get married?
I'm like, well, I'm kind oflike focusing on my career, I'm
trying to build that like so Icould, you know, bring something
(38:28):
to the table.
I don't want to just getmarried.
Like that seems crazy to me,like I need to be able to stand
on my own two feet.
Lots of things on LinkedIn whereyou know the female quotient
that's one of the ones I followLike they have like really great
stuff that they put out andthey had they've been putting
(38:49):
stuff out, and one of the, sarahJessica Parker, just was on a
post where she was like talkingabout how, when they had the new
series come out you know thepost, like the older series of
sex in the city, and she waslike the comments were like so
horrible to the women about howthey looked old and this and
that, oh, you have gray hair now.
She's like, well, so does youknow this guy over here?
(39:10):
But nobody's talking about thisguy's gray hair.
Why are they so focused on mygray hair?
You know there's been a lot ofwomen that I've noticed recently
and I've talked to that noone's died.
A lot of women are not dyingtheir gray hair anymore, like
they're starting to embrace it.
And I don't dye my hair, I'mletting it go.
I'm like I'm getting gray hair.
But you know what I earned thatgray hair.
I've lived half my life.
(39:32):
At this point Like well, nothalf, I'm almost there, but I've
lived almost half my life.
Of course I'm going to havesome gray hair and I feel
distinguished by that.
I'm distinguished by I don'tlove the wrinkles, but I'm
distinguished by this becauseyou know what I earned all this.
I earned all the stretch markswith all these babies that I had
.
And I'm here to show up as,like Jenny Benitez, the person,
(39:54):
not like the shell of the humanbeing that the media tried to
wrap into this little packageand be like oh, by the way,
you're done at 40.
And now you have to just take astep back and just not do
anything else with yourself,like this is the best time I've
ever had, because I actuallytruly know myself now.
(40:17):
It never, you know, like you getto a certain point in your life
and you're like what?
I just figured out who I am.
Like, I've been figuring it outall along and I had points of
clarification, but this is thefirst time that I'm like no,
this is Jenny.
Like I'm Jenny, I'm showing upas Jenny.
I don't really care whatanybody else says about it.
Like you could, everyone canhave an opinion, that's.
That's the other thing.
I'm like you can have anopinion about me.
That's totally fine.
You're welcome to your ownopinion about me, but I know me
(40:37):
too and I have an opinion aboutme too.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
You know it's really funny.
I went to your LinkedIn profileand I saw the exact video that
you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I posted it.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah.
I mean, let's go oh my God, yes, and yeah, sarah.
I heard Sarah Jessica Parkerand, like she, her hair is
blonde.
Though that's what she wassaying.
She was like they said my hairis gray and it's not even gray,
it's like she dyes it blonde.
And then she has a picture ofher next to this younger guy,
but he's gone, completely grayand she's like but nobody talks
(41:09):
about that, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
And you know, you ever see, like all those posts
about, like you know, women onthe red carpet, like they're
being asked about like, oh,what's your outfit, how are you
handling being a mom?
And it's like, well, we're notasking any of the guys this like
, and that's part of the whole.
Like you know, media iscrafting the story and the story
is always like oh well, youknow, if you're a working mom,
you, you don't have the supportof society, you just don't.
(41:33):
I can attest to that.
No structure is set up forwomen to succeed professionally,
like none of it.
The only reason why I've gottenas far as I have is because I
work from home and my husbandstopped working for a couple of
years so that I could further mycareer.
There's no reason why it workedAmazing, yeah, which is
obviously.
It's actually a little bitfunny because he's very machismo
(41:55):
, so we like flip for a littlewhile and it was very funny for
everybody, they're like what'shappening.
But, honestly, the only.
I had his support and you knowhe he's been great in a lot of
ways with that.
He took on the brunt of like.
We have three children.
I have twin girls and a littleboy, and my son was born in 2016
(42:16):
.
The twins were born in 2017.
And then the pandemic happenedand everybody was shut down and
you know, we had to make adecision and you know, because
my job was virtual, I was likeI'm going to, I'm going to
continue on.
He was in construction, so hestayed with the kids and you
know, we just that was the onlyreason why it worked, because I
speak to women all the time nowthat have to leave the house to
go work and they have to traveland they have to do all these
(42:38):
things and they're going crazybecause they were.
Just.
Society is not set up tosupport us.
It just isn't, and we're bangingit down the door now, but it's
going to take time.
It's going to take a lot oftime to get us to where we
really need to be.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I think it's
great.
I applaud the women that arenot dyeing their hair Because it
takes a lot of work.
Because of my genetics, Iliterally started graying at 25,
but it's like society saysyou're expiring.
It's the worst.
(43:14):
If I was all gray like I wouldabsolutely just be rocking it,
but it's like a problem.
Only like a little bit hasturned gray.
Yeah, I feel crazy.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I have like streaks of it kind of happening at this
point.
I thought it was like well, theother day I thought it was like
a blonde highlight and it's notat all.
It was a straight up grayhighlight.
My stepdaughter is a stylist,really great stylist.
She's doing really a fabulousjob with her, her career and she
asked me all the time, wheneverI go to her to get my hair, she
(43:43):
said do you want it, do youwant to color it?
And I'm like I'm good, I'm allset.
I'm like well, also, don't getme started on putting chemicals
into my hair.
Like I won't, I don't do thateither.
So I'm like that's smart.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
That's smart.
Yeah, that's also beautyjustice, because I did do work
educating people about the toxicchemicals and like beauty
products, including like hairdye and like what you put on
your face.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Oh, it's relaxing.
I had no idea I had.
Oh well, that's like you know,and this is I digress a little
bit.
I just learned hold on, I haveto form the whole thought.
I think it was last year I didan episode on it the relation
with uterine fibroids and blackhair care exactly exactly.
(44:26):
My god, like I.
I couldn't believe it.
I also this goes to the mediathat we were talking about.
I also couldn't believe how itdidn't get any airtime.
I was very upset about thatbecause I worked in women's
health care for a while, acouple of years, and uterine
fibroids was one of the things,one of the disease states that I
(44:48):
focused in on and I'm like, ohwow, it predominantly affects
African American women.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
I'm like, oh wow, Like I wonder, why that is.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Like has anyone done any studies?
Whole time that I was workingon women's health, not one
person ever said anything to meabout that connection.
And then I happened to overhearmy husband was looking at
something on social media andhe's like just flipping and I
heard like five seconds of avideo and I was like, oh, could
you go back to that?
And he went back and I was likelet me fact check that.
And I started looking it up andthen I didn't.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
I did a whole episode on it.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
So I'm like is anyone aware?
Like does anybody know this?
Because we have wholegenerations of women, these
wonderful women they're reallystrong powerhouse women that are
losing their fertility becausethey don't know that the
products that they're using torelax their hair is actually
causing uterine fibroids.
And you're using it fromwhatever age.
(45:36):
That starts all the way throughadulthood.
You are poisoning your wholebody and you're not even being
told about it.
There's no disclaimer, there'snothing on the box Like like
blow it blew my mind.
I was so upset about it.
I was so upset when I foundthat out.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Exactly so.
That's like some of the workthat I was doing, like in the
black community in Los Angeles,was just educating about.
You know the harm of like putthe toxic relaxers right to make
you know curly hair or afrohair straight, how much
chemicals are in there and howit was.
There are literally lawsuitsright now that are tying it to
(46:10):
uterine fibroids and breastcancer and cervical cancer and
all of this stuff.
You know, and it's crazy, butwe're trying to do that and
we're trying to move towardslike organic and safe, you know
beauty products for the hair andthe face.
But the thing is is that whatwe've seen is that we'll lobby a
(46:30):
company to remove like toxinsand they will, but then they'll
replace it with something thatwe eventually realize is also
toxic.
Exactly so.
It's very.
And then, of course, like theFDA in the US never really
protected its people, it neverreally screened out the
chemicals that it needed to, andso that's a whole other thing.
So it's actually like healthierto buy like skin products in
(46:50):
like Korea or like in theEuropean, because they're
actually regulated like well,and so the craziest thing is
we're sitting here in the USthinking that we are protected.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
We're like the you know, cream of the crop kind
kind of a.
No, we're run by.
We're run by industry.
That's what we're run by.
We're not run by anything.
We are run by industry andindustry is making the policy.
That's really what it's boilingdown to exactly.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
And then now we have an administration that's like
not even hiding it, they're likethat's their whole front, like
let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
If my cut, my cousin, used to be my co-host on the
show, and if you two got into aroom together, you probably have
a lot to say to each other.
Because she's she.
I always tell her you know howyou said you, you started
blogging because she gets veryupset and she gets, she gets
very worked up and so I'll lether kind of go and then I'm like
listen, we can't do anythingabout this in the moment.
(47:40):
Let's just you got to figureout a different way, exactly
what you did your with your blogand like channeling yourself
there.
I actually do want to bring thatback up before we disconnect
that or before we hang up that.
You know you taking that on andusing that to channel like
where what your thoughts were.
I think that's such a reallygreat way to not let things be
(48:01):
stuck in your head and rattlingaround in your head, because
then you're going to be likedriving yourself crazy.
But yeah, it's.
You could, we could go down arabbit hole for like hours
talking about honestly like myhusband and I talk about it all
the time like oh my god did youread this like did you read you
know we're not supposed to beeating this either.
I'm like, oh my god, like it'scrazy.
Um, thank you so much forcoming on.
(48:22):
This has been such a funconversation conversation, by
the way, I know we had like weweren't like fun topics, but
talking with you has been likeI've really enjoyed it.
Honestly, you're you.
You show up very honestly andtruthfully and I really
appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah, thank you too.
Actually, it's very fun talkingto you.
You're like a very funpersonality, very bubbly, which
I also have, so it's perfect,tell yes, yeah go ahead like I
was saying um, because I'm likeso young, I'm like not ready to
have like patches of gray so Ido dye my hair and it takes,
(48:57):
it's hard work and like, but Iuse henna, which is like a
natural ingredient, so it's notchemicals, so I definitely
recommend that to anybodylistening.
If you have, you know, grayhairs and you'd like to dye your
hair, uh, try henna and there'sother like natural products and
they really work too.
And it's long lasting for me,like I, I literally only diet uh
(49:17):
like um every six months.
But the reason is because, likeI, because I have black hair, I
only like wash my hair everyweek, once a week yeah, I'm like
.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
I'm like twice a week .
I don't, I don't do it everyday.
That's crazy exactly, exactly.
So it doesn't like wash out thethe head up, but yeah so, and
it's only like nine bucks atlike, honestly, that's a good
solve and honestly and I doencourage people to start
looking into alternate like waysto color their hair if you
really want to do that, yeah, itis.
(49:48):
It's bad.
I was not in my hair blonde foryears.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
I'm like, oh god what have I done?
Speaker 1 (49:54):
not anymore.
Um, well, thank you so much forjoining us.
I'm going to link listeners, um, I'm gonna link the book in the
show notes and I'll link anyresources, mcdella, that you
want to share with the audience.
If you have any websites, youwant to point them to.
If you have a website, let meknow and we're going to link
everything into your descriptionand that way, the listeners can
reach out to you.
And you know, look at thematerials.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Awesome.
Yes, I have a websiteplussizebookcom.
Literally lowercase alltogether no spaces
plussizebookcom.
You can find me on Twitter andTikTok at plussizebook Same
thing, lowercase, no spaces atplussizebook.
And on Instagram it's atmcdellaa.
(50:37):
And on my website there's acontact page that has all of
this.
I also write articles on mediathat I've been watching that I
didn't write about in my book onMedium, so I have a Medium blog
where I also share insightsthere, and on Medium it's just
my name Megdela M-E-K-D-E-L-A,and on that note, I haven't
(51:02):
written anything on YellowJackets.
But one thing that's a realsell is that it has Melanie
Linsky, who is one of myfavorite actresses and she also
happens to be plus size.
Right, she happens to have likea fuller figure in a Hollywood
landscape where everyone issuper tiny, and she's talked
about it before and she doesgreat work and we love
(51:25):
representation.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you so much for joiningme today and listeners, thank
you for joining us to listeninto the discussion, and we will
catch you on the next one.
So take care, everybody, andhave a great day.
Hello everybody.
This is Still Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I'm very excited to introduceall of you today to our guest.
Today we have with us McDellaEjigu.
She's the author of Plus Size,a memoir of pop culture,
fatphobia and social change.
She's also a beauty justiceactivist and body diversity
(00:22):
advocate.
She has a feminist studiespre-law BA and a public policy
MA graduate, with over a decadeof community organizing, policy
advocacy and communicationsexperience.
She also worked with theEthiopian Diaspora Fellowship in
Los Angeles.
She promoted leadership andcreative storytelling while
(00:42):
training Ethiopian Americans towork for partner organizations
in Ethiopia.
Magdala, I mean wow is like anunderstatement and also welcome
to the show.
I mean this is it's amazing totalk with you because you're
doing so much and you're givingback so much.
I read about you in advance andI'm just I'm very honored that
you chose this podcast to comein and talk and introduce
(01:03):
yourself.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm really enjoying talking to you too.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So, mcdella, why don't you take a moment,
introduce yourself to thelisteners and maybe talk a
little bit about how you decidedto author your memoir, the
Memoir of Pop Culture, and evenI mean your policy work?
Anywhere you want to go, I mean, the listeners are ready for
you.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Absolutely.
Hi everybody.
My name is McDella and I am theauthor of Plus Size, a memoir
of pop culture, fat phobia andsocial change.
I am also, like a lifelongadvocate and activist, including
beauty justice activist, butI've noticed that all systems of
(01:48):
oppression are connected, so itall kind of overlaps.
And how I came about writing mybook is that I was a community
organizer in communities ofcolor in Los Angeles right
before Trump was elected in 2016.
(02:08):
And it was just complete andutter chaos.
I mean, we were running aroundlike chickens with their heads
cut off and I was just sent intofree fall.
And so, in order to like kindof ground ground myself, to like
find something that I couldlike hold on, to like something
(02:29):
concrete to stabilize myself, Istarted writing a blog, and this
blog I just, you know, I justkind of like was sorting out my
thoughts and my memories andexperiences, and it it went all
over the place, right, but itjust started with my childhood
(02:50):
and it became about the mediathat I had consumed throughout
my life and how it ended upmirroring what was happening to
me, and I realized that therewas a connection, and so that's
what inspired me to compile andcreate.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's interesting.
Well, how do you phrase that up?
So I want to circle on a couplethings.
I think all minorities and allof us those of us who are in,
you know, mixed marriages andeverything we're all very
nervous during that time, andeven in the recent time, like I
mean it's very hard to describeit and, honestly, like I'm like
(03:31):
tip of the iceberg because it'sjust, I'm just interracial
marriage, but to to for me towitness the other side like
firsthand was not shocking,because when we started dating,
that was more of the shock.
And I actually want I'll, and Iwant to talk about that for a
minute, because I know that youalso are well-versed in critical
(03:51):
race theory too.
So I'll talk about this for asecond.
I I, when I started dating myhusband and I'm going to admit
this and I feel so stupid but Iactually came into the
relationship and was like no,but like racism isn't a thing
anymore, right?
And he was like well, we met in2010.
(04:12):
He was like what are youtalking about?
And he actually got and I feel Ifeel really stupid.
Honestly, I feel stupid sayingit because that is like such an
example of the bubble, yeah, andlike because I obviously
wouldn't know.
There's no way I would know,there's no way I would ever
witness it.
There was no, there's no wayI'm going to pay attention to it
.
I had no idea.
(04:33):
The only time that I started toactually see things was when we
would go out together and Istarted to see how people
reacted and I was like is thatare you kidding me right now?
Where we wouldn't get served atplaces we were getting pulled
over like consistently and I wasgetting pulled out of the car
and they were basically beinglike Are you okay?
I'm like that's my, myboyfriend.
(04:54):
Like what are you talking about?
Like there was these consistentmoments of like oh my God, like
Jenny, like open your eyes,kind of thing, and the part that
was more not shocking butbecame more of a wow, like you
know, the Caucasian race or thewhite race, the you know other
(05:15):
people, like we were not seeingthese things and we're turning a
blind eye to all of this stuff.
We're turning a blind eye to it.
And the part that was likedisturbing for me was, like my
own family being like, what areyou talking about?
Like you're crazy, like, no,this is in your head or no,
you're overreacting.
And I was like, oh my God,you're gaslighting.
I was like, oh my God, and itwas like this whole big mind
(05:37):
blowing like thing.
So that in itself, like I know,I know that time was was very,
very frightening for a lot offolks.
So I want to commend you onfinding something tangible like
your blog to channel everythinginto, and then from your blog,
being like I have something herethat can help other people.
Yeah, so I haven't, I've neverwritten something like I've
(06:00):
never written anything, period.
I mean I'm working on somethingright now, but I mean, how, how
did it feel to pull togetheryour thoughts in that way
Because there's obviouslysomething very personal and then
to put it into paper?
I mean, how did you know, like,what to focus in on?
Like, how did you take it, takeaway from your blog and decide,
like these are my main points,and I haven't read your book yet
, so I'm asking the questionvery cold yet.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So I'm asking the question very cold.
So I, you know, I realized thatit told a story, like with the
media that I had consumed andhow they kind of mirrored my
lived experiences throughout mylife, like over time.
I realized that it told a storyand so I I wrote that book to
tell that story.
And it's not linear, right,it's nonlinear, it kind of jumps
(06:50):
around in terms of time and mylife, but it really I feel like
it really illuminates howsystems of oppression you know,
racism, sexism, classism,ableism, capitalism, colonialism
how they operate in the world,how they shape our lives and how
(07:12):
at least the media, during thetime I was raised, kind of
echoed that.
It kind of gave it a platformfor which people would
internalize those things andthen become, you know, the very
people enforcing these systemsin their personal lives.
And you could say that is truefor the media today as well.
(07:35):
I mean, it's promoting, andit's not just the media, there's
other institutions.
You know the medical industrialcomplex, the beauty industrial
complex, even the school system.
You know there's a lot of otherinstitutions that also uphold
these systems in their ways.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You know I can, I can speak to the medical quite a
bit because of the work that Ido.
And it's very interesting againto see the other side of the
curtain because I work inmarketing and communications and
so I know what goes into thethought process for we're going
to launch this product.
(08:15):
How are we going to launch thisproduct Like?
What are we going to do?
Are we going to launch this?
You know like and I understandlike the backdrop to a lot of
these things.
So when I do see stuff playingout and I see commercials or I
see like and I see how thecommercials are set up, my job
on my side of the fence is tocreate this content, you know,
for these, for these largeorganizations, and so when I see
(08:36):
the targeted, the very targetedand very specific things that
are put out there, you can tell,you can very definitively see
and I don't know if it's becausenow we're all just much more
aware of it, but you can see theagenda pushing and you can see
that there is a, there is areason.
We, we want you, you need tosee this Like.
We're pushing this in your face.
(08:57):
I see it in my children's TVshows.
It's the wildest thing I'veever seen in my life.
But we'll watch.
Like you know, we don't alwaysscreen everything.
You know.
Like it's.
What am I going to?
I'm not going to spend hours aday pre screening shows that the
kids are watching, but we'realways within the vicinity and
I'm painfully aware of like themedia images that are being
(09:18):
pushed to my children, becausewhen I was growing up and I'll
go more towards like the fatphobia, like that side of the
fence when I was growing up, theimage was always like you know,
the very slim, tall, blondehair, blue eyes, very princess,
that's all you got and that was.
It's never been me.
I'm tall, but I am nothing, youknow.
(09:38):
And and so when I was growingup, I and I remember like I saw
a post recently actually, thatwas saying like you know, no
wonder why all of us have hadlike eating disorders and all
this crazy stuff.
Because they showed images oflike it was like Bridget Jones's
diary, there was like a Beyonce, like there was a bunch of them
, and it was like we were toldthat these people are fat and
(09:58):
then they showed pictures andI'm like, oh my God, by no means
were any of these womenoverweight, but the storylines
and the plots around all thesewomen were like oh look, she
gained, you know, five pounds.
Or oh, look this like.
And it was a constant like oh,you know, you need to look like
this certain way, like this iswhat's being funneled to you.
So for a very long time, I feltcompletely out of place Because
(10:22):
by the time I was 11, or 12years old, I was like five, six
and I think I weighed like 140pounds.
I was like towering overeveryone in my grammar school
and I felt like there wassomething wrong with me and I
was like, oh, like I'm like afreak, you know, and it's that
kind of messaging that you know,I'm very aware of and I try
(10:43):
really hard to teach my childrendifferently and while they're
seeing all these images beforethey get inundated when they
become teenagers, I'm trying toaddress it now, that's very good
.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah, they're lucky to have you.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So a little bit more on your book.
So it's pop culture, fat phobiaand social change.
So did you use social media inyour study of all this Like?
Did you pull through elementsof like, because social media is
like a huge thing where I meaneveryone's getting their
information from social mediaand like even health information
, like everything's coming offof social media now.
So is that really?
(11:21):
Is that where you started topull through like, through lines
for everything, and to see likelooking up information?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
reading up on these topics and and I ended up, I
(11:50):
guess, the research kind ofstuck in my brain, because when
I was writing this I literallyjust I didn't even have to
search for it.
I just remembered off the backof my head like what studies and
articles and research that Iread in the past and that I was
able to cite.
And it just shows how educationworks right, like it's not just
(12:10):
a one and done.
You read these things and youunderstand what they're saying
and then you kind of likeinternalize it, you incorporate
it into your own, yourviewpoints, or at least that's
the goal and that's kind of whathappened to me.
So it was like I didn't evenhave to really seek out because
I just remembered what I hadseen in my own like studies.
(12:32):
And yeah, that's what I hopefor readers to, that they're
able to like digest and justinternalize it into their lives.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, I have to tell you because that's the way that
you retain the information itthe book it's.
I'm very excited to to tell youbecause that's the way that you
retain the information, thebook.
I'm very excited to read thebook because that alone, like I
can understand that I lovereading.
I don't get to do it quite asmuch as I used to, but now,
because I read so much when I'myounger, when I was younger, and
(13:05):
I mean I started, you know,obviously, kid stuff when I was
a kid, but the older I got, themore I was like I need to expand
my knowledge.
I can't just know this onething, I need to really
understand.
You know, x, y and z.
I I would pick up like justtopics and I was, like you know,
like, for example, like at onepoint I was like I'm, I was born
and raised Catholic but I'm notpracticing.
So I was like, oh, let me justpick up this book on the Vatican
(13:25):
.
I've never, I don't knowanything about this, you know,
let me look it up.
And I was like totally shockedbecause this book that I picked
up was not about, like you know,traditions and Catholicism, it
was about, like, the history ofthe Vatican, which I was very
surprised to read that, like youknow, the Pope used to have
(13:45):
concubines and like all thisstuff and I was like, oh well,
that that's interesting becausethat means that the church has
like decided that we're going tojust kind of go, you know,
pretend like that didn't happenand you know, like it's very
interesting.
So I'm a really big advocate oflike, look it up.
Research.
It don't just take something atface value.
Put the time and effort intoeducating yourself.
(14:06):
I've seen a lot of women onInstagram not Instagram, excuse
me on LinkedIn is the platformthat I'll always go to for like
stuff and just readinginformation, and some of the
women that I follow have saidthat they're like, don't ask me
to educate you, educate yourself.
Here's some resources.
Go, go look it up, like figureit out, because the whole point
is like what you said.
(14:26):
You know, if this is somethingof value to you, you're gonna
read about it.
You're gonna read that article,read that book, whatever it is,
you're gonna retain it, andthen that's going to be
imprinted with you and like justlike how this book came
together.
This was like all these thingsthat you were already interested
in and then you were able toproduce this book, and this book
(14:47):
is, I'm sure, having an impacton everyone who touches it?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Definitely, yeah, one of my favorite things is
reading reviews, and people talkabout learning so much, even
though it's a very compact notvery, it's a very quick book,
under 100 pages but they learnso much and they enjoy it.
It's interesting for them andthey take away so much from it
(15:10):
too.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, I'm excited.
I'm excited to read up, readabout it.
So what?
So what else are you doingright now?
So you wrote the book.
Is there outside of the book?
I mean, is there a book too?
Or is there like, is thereoutside of the book, I mean, is
there a book too?
Or is there like, is theresomething else that you think
that, from the book, you'd liketo communicate this message to
the listeners today?
Is there like a, a topic youthink that would be really
(15:35):
important for you to speak on?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
definitely.
You know, I am um kind ofmarinating in the back of my
head a book too, and the topicwould be on healing my inner
child.
You know, because I definitelytouched on my inner child.
You know, inner child in thebook.
You know some of my essays werewritten from her perspective
(16:00):
because it kind of charts, youknow, the formation of my
identity and my mind from veryyoung and you know, even having
been in therapy.
There's this one quote from oneof the therapists that I used
to work with, and she saidchildhood is the air we breathe
(16:21):
for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And I do.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I do touch on that in the book and I kind of want to
like expand on that in the next,in another book.
But it's so true, like the moreI live, the more I realize,
like how much you know.
And it makes sense because ourchildhood is when we first you
know our brains are the mostmalleable right, when we're
(16:45):
learning about the world and ourplace in it and ourselves.
And especially if you havetraumatic experiences from that
time, it can really like make orbreak you.
It can really like get stuck inyour subconscious, your psyche,
and then literally shape everysingle experience you have
afterwards.
(17:05):
Yeah, there's even scienceabout that, like ACEs, adverse
childhood experiences, about howtraumatic childhood experiences
lead to, or they're more likelyto lead to, you know, physical
and mental health diseases lateron in life as an adult, because
(17:27):
it's you know, it's stillimpacting you throughout your
life.
But of course it's not all doomand gloom.
Like there's ways to to healright, there's ways to heal that
, to get you know, to get yourlife and yourself back, and
that's where the healing, theinner child, comes in.
(17:47):
And so it's a very fascinating,fascinating topic.
But on a more positive note,there's also research on how
making your inner child happycan lead you to fall in love
with someone.
It could just make you ahappier person in general.
(18:07):
Just being in touch with yourinner child and what you used to
love is kind of the key tohappiness as well.
Like, for example, it would belike maybe grown women who
really wanted to play withBarbies when they were younger,
or even maybe grown men ornon-binary people who were not
assigned female at birth, whoreally wanted to play with
(18:30):
Barbies or toys that areassociated with girls as a child
, but they weren't allowed to,either because they couldn't
afford them or their parentswere Exactly so as an adult, you
know.
Say, like giving a gift,gifting that person like a
Barbie doll, you know, couldreally make them happy and it
(18:51):
could really make their innerchild happy and heal something
that was, you know, previouslymissing or that was hurt, you
know.
And there was this one, therewas this one article.
I don't know if it's scientificexactly, but they said that
that's like a way to getsomebody to fall in love.
Like, if you want someone tofall in love with you, one of
(19:13):
the best ways to do that is toum, to give them something that
they they didn't get to have inchildhood that they really
wanted, or to remind themsomehow of their childhood,
obviously like a good or likehappy aspect of their childhood,
not a traumatic one.
Um, and somebody commented andI don't know if this is true, it
(19:33):
could just be a wacky rumor,but it really amused me they
were like that's what MeghanMarkle did.
Meghan Markle wore PrincessDiana's perfume on her first
date with Harry and I'm likethat's a perfect example, or I'm
sorry, meghan Sussex you knowwhat I will say.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Perhaps it was that, in combination with the fact
that she also is not trying tograb the spotlight, you know, I
I did pay attention a little bitthere and Harry was never one
for the spotlight and Meganembodied a lot of that, and I
think that's what it was and Iwanted to add to what you're
saying because you're absolutelyspot on and there what you can
(20:15):
expand on a little bit more past, like the physical, like a
present, and it's also maybeyou're bringing safety and peace
to somebody that had a reallytumultuous life and was just
seeking out some peace in theirlife and you're the person who
brought it to them and that'sreally going to fill them up
from, like that childhood and itaddresses those childhood needs
(20:37):
.
If you are and I've said thison other podcast episodes if
you're feeling reallyunfulfilled in your life and you
are stuck and you feel likebecause I, you know, 40s is like
the year, the age right, wherewe all like reexamine ourselves
and and I've noticed that I'veseen people myself and everybody
(20:59):
going into their 40s and I'mlike, oh, we all kind of did it,
we all had to reexamine ourlives and one of the things that
, like, I've noticed and I knewfor myself was I had to a couple
I started a couple years backwhere I was getting like I'm
feeling stuck.
I'm feeling like I I went downthis whole path of corporate
because I felt like I needed togo that path, or I should go
(21:20):
that path, because that's thesuccess and that's the money and
that's where everything is.
And I got to a certain pointand I was like, oh my god, I
feel like my soul is beingsucked out of my body, exactly
like I'm doing this now, and I'mlike really not happy because
I'm not spending time with myfamily and my priority is like
working 15 hours a day.
I'm like this sucks, like Idon't want to do this, like and
(21:44):
I went through this whole periodof almost like rediscovering
Jenny and it sounds so likehippie dippy, but like it's
legitimately, like this is alegitimate practice and it
completely changed my life.
And I went through this wholelike online virtual course.
I was doing other stuff, wewere doing business things too,
but we also talked about thispart and I think I might have
(22:05):
told you in my, in our introcall, I did this, this
meditation, that I because Imeditate every day too, too.
So I, when I was learning tomeditate through this course,
the meditation was addressingyour younger selves, and so it
was like a 30 minute guidedmeditation and you address like
your child, and then you addresslike teen or mid 20s, you know
(22:26):
whatever like intervals you feltlike were necessary.
When I addressed like childJenny, I was like sobbing.
You know, like you, you go sofar and you're like, oh yeah,
like I've accomplished a lot.
I have money, I have the house.
Like I have the cars None ofthat actually matters, like
that's all.
We've created this whole likesociety where you need these hot
(22:49):
cars, you need this big house,you need to go on vacations, and
now social media is like takingyou even further.
You need to be showered withflowers and you need this and
you need that.
You don't actually need any ofit.
The real root of your happinessis going to come from yourself
and it's going to come frominside.
So if you're broken because younever really addressed your
childhood and you didn'tacknowledge all these times in
(23:12):
your life that you've gonethrough and you're not embracing
it and acknowledging it andpaying homage to it, then that's
where you're going to feelbroken and that's when you're
going to start feelingdisjointed and disconnected and
you people will live their wholelives with this disconnection
and continuing on down a path oflike, oh, I should do this, I
should be doing that, andthey're not really addressing
that inner turmoil and then theydie.
(23:34):
That's it.
Like you know, we only reallywell, I don't know if I believe
it's only one shot at this, butlike, let's say we only get one
shot at this, like let's do it,let's do it Right, let's address
that inner child and that youknow what you've gone through
and bring it to the next level.
When I did that, I alsoremembered how much I used to
like being creative.
(23:55):
I haven't been, I hadn't beencreative in years Like I mean I,
I used to love to.
I did creative writing all thetime when I was a kid, all the
way up through high school.
I did it until my parentsdivorced and then broken.
Jenny like just tossed it outthe window and just stopped and
that's where, like and it youknow the whole journey I went
(24:15):
through brought me to thispodcast and it brought me to
being, you know, a podcast hostand it brought me to developing
it and launching it and wantingto do all this and that's why
I'm always like I will get on asoapbox and I will talk about it
for forever, because I'm likethis is really crucial.
Like so many of us aredisconnected and disjointed
(24:38):
because we're not addressingthese inner things.
We were told growing up to justkind of sweep it under the rug
and to like keep your head downand keep moving forward.
And you know, mental healthwasn't a thing for our parents.
Like they didn't address that.
I don't know about your parents, but my parents weren't like
real big on like oh yeah, mentalhealth, make sure you guys are
okay.
That wasn't a thing when I wasgrowing up.
So now it needs to be and weneed to be paying attention to
this.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I'm so glad you brought that up About, you know,
being a woman in her 40s and,you know, starting to realize
how your inner child wounds havebeen still kind of present all
along and working through that.
One of my actually maybe thefavorite show I have right now
that's still airing is calledyellow jackets and it's it's
(25:19):
about that, pretty much thedramatization of that.
It's it.
It's a um, a split show, solike half of the time of the
show is spent in modern dayright in to 2025, depending on
the season and the main cast arewomen in their 40s, and these
(25:40):
women are still living theaftermath of what happened to
them when they were teen girls.
They were on a very competitivehigh school soccer team and
they were flying to acompetition and they got into a
plane crash and they landed inthe wilderness in the middle of
(26:01):
nowhere and they had to survivethere in the wild for 19 months.
Oh God, yeah, yeah.
19 months.
Oh God, yeah, yeah.
And so the you know the firstepisode starts out with the 40
year old women contending with,you know, reporters that are
still like at their throats,trying to get the whole story,
(26:22):
the scoop of what really wentout when, what really went on
out there, because there was alot of rumors, you know, about
cannibalism and things that theyhad to do in order to survive.
But the 40 year old women arelike nope, like they have like a
patch that they're not going tosay anything to the press and
you see them just trying to livetheir lives, but they're still
(26:45):
literally and metaphoricallyhaunted by what happened in the
woods and what they did.
And so the show, like after wesee them in the present day, the
show flashes back to when theywere teenagers, from the plane
crash and through the 19 months,and it kind of like builds that
story of like what happened outthere, and then we see them,
(27:07):
and then we go back to seeingthem dealing with the aftermath
20 years later, and so there'sthis kind of continuity between
the teenage girl and the womanthat she becomes right.
So we see the connection, thecontinuity and how that
traumatic experience isultimately shaping their lives,
(27:30):
you know, 20 years later, aswomen.
And so I feel like it is reallyabout trauma and healing.
Also it's like a Lord of theFlies situation, where it's
about, like, the inherentbrutality and viciousness and
violent nature of human beings,especially in like survival
situations, but also kind oflike your past coming back to
(27:54):
haunt you, right like there's aliteral supernatural element
where there was something in thewoods with them that was
stalking them and it it mighthave caught up to them in
civilization, and so it's.
It's really good.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I like that yeah, is that on netflix?
Like, can you give me more?
Like where is that?
Where's that streaming?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
the first season is on netflix, uh, but the whole,
like there's three seasons.
At this point they're in themiddle of airing the third
season and that's that's onfridays at 8 pm on paramount
plus and showtime online, and Ithink it's on showtime if you
have cable uh sundays atsometime in the night I'm gonna
check it out when I have.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's so funny, like every time I talk with a new
guest I get like a newrecommendation.
I have like a notebook full oflike I need like a couple of
weeks of Jenny time.
Yeah, I'm gonna bother me so Icould read all these books.
And because it's like I meaneveryone, whenever someone comes
on the podcast, you guys alwaysgive me like great
recommendations for things.
(28:51):
Um, no, I, I do.
I I've always known, you know, Iwas very interested in
psychology when I was growing upand I and mental health
disorders, unfortunately, wererampant in my family, but I was
not doing anything about it,just, you know, medicating, and
so it's.
I think it's important to.
So it's.
I think it's important to toreally address the root cause
(29:14):
and to be able to get past it.
And you know and I'll use anexample too of like anxiety, I
have terrible anxiety.
I and I was sharing this withmy cousin the other day that I I
have anxiety when I leave myhouse, like when I have to go
drive far distances by myself.
I get anxious about that, andthat was like a new thing that
(29:37):
happened in the last couple ofyears.
I've never had that problembefore, and so I, I self talk
myself through it and you know,there's I think there's a large
part of once you do the work tounderstand yourself and to
understand where there has beentrauma or to understand, like,
where things might have gonewrong, then you can take the
next step and saying like, well,actually I know how to address
(29:59):
these things as they come up,because it never actually goes
away.
The reality of it is we do gothrough these things in our life
.
You recognize it, you honor it,understand like it did happen.
I went through this thing.
It doesn't even have to be thattraumatic, to be perfectly
honest with you.
It could be anything thatimpacts your life.
And then you kind of you moveon from there.
The trick is, when you do havethe trigger again and you start
(30:20):
to have your trigger response isto be able to say I actually
know what this is and so I getanxiety when I'm leaving the
house, when I have to leave mykids and my husband, I get
anxiety about it.
I'm like I'm leaving my nest,I'll leave my children, and I
immediately start in my headlike I've woken up, like from
like.
So my most recent trip that Ihad to take was for work and I
(30:42):
had to get up like in the middleof the night to go, you know,
do something, do a meeting, andI was driving really far out of
state and so well, one I startedrecording a podcast episode on
drive because I was like I'm soanxious, like let me just talk
this out to my listeners.
So that's kind of what I did,privately in my head.
I will talk to myself and belike All right, jenny, you're
(31:04):
not actually in any danger, notreally anxious right now.
This is just like your mind andthis and that, and you know
that this isn't real and it'sokay.
You can get through this andit's a matter of understanding
and recognizing yourself.
And then, like you can moveforward from there and it truly
it sounds super simple and it'slike no, it can't be that, but
it is.
Once you do the work to getthrough everything and you can
(31:26):
recognize, like why do I haveanxiety, or why am I feeling
like this, or you know I haven'taddressed certain things, like
you can then move forward fromthere, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Absolutely Exactly.
You know and you think like yousaid.
You think if, even if you arehappen to be successful, you get
married, have kids, have a nicehouse and car, you think you're
past it, you think you don'thave to worry about that anymore
.
But you know, as you said, youdo, cause it catches up to you
(31:55):
and you have to address it.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Exactly.
And you know one thing I wantto talk with you, too, about um
before our our our session isdone.
Um, because we've talked aboutthe inner child and I touched a
little bit on you know that thatI was raised, was raised
Catholic, but I don't reallypractice anymore the
spirituality element of ourlives, and because I very deeply
(32:22):
know that there is somethingbigger and grander out there
that I'm very, very well awareof it.
You know, I being Catholic,it's very interesting.
There's a lot of rules whenyou're Catholic, like lots of
them, and one of the things that, like, you're basically told
like this is it, this is theonly way, this is it.
(32:43):
Everyone else is incorrect,this is it.
And, as I mentioned, you know,when I had read that book on the
Vatican, when I started doingmy own research on things, I
realized how much human handshad manipulated the story.
And I use this, I use this atwork too.
I always say, like, wheneverhuman hands have touched
(33:04):
something, then there's room forerror, whatever it is, and it
has to go to editorial that'swork Right.
But in life, I'm like, well, ifhuman hands have touched that,
that means somebody had anopinion and they shaped this
exactly what they wanted this tobe, exactly so you really have
to, for your spirituality, thinkto yourself about, like, well,
(33:25):
what, what's the roots here?
What am I going to get back to?
Because there's no way thatthere's only one religion.
There's no way, it's notpossible.
There's so many beautifulreligions out there.
I mean just beautiful,beautiful customs and traditions
that really lift and raise thespirit, that are not Catholic.
And I'm like, how could thesebeautiful, these beautiful
(33:48):
religions be, you know,condemned just because they're
not like going to this oneparticular church or, you know,
following these one particularrules?
My mother, by the way, if sheever hears this episode, will be
very upset with me, like she'llbe very mad that I'm even
talking like this.
But to me, spirituality isreally like it's from within and
it's something that connectsyou.
(34:09):
For me, I call it the universe,the grander universe, you know,
and it's energies and it's anexchange of energy, and that's
really to me like that's theroot here and that's something
that I've practiced now for likethree years and I've done it
through meditation, I've done itthrough like a lot of different
practices, but that's actuallywhat I lean more into and I'm
(34:32):
going to be honest with you.
As soon as I started leaningmore into my spirituality and
these practices of meditationand affirmations and really,
really like the chakras and allthis stuff, it just makes so
much sense.
It's like the light bulb hascome on, if you will.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
It's so funny.
When you said that, the powergeneration, just the power
generator, I thought literallycame on.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I know, yeah, right, kind of freaked me out a little
bit, I'm like oh did I justilluminate her so funny.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
But, yeah, no, thank you so much for for telling me
this and, um, I love hearingfrom you, know, women in a
different generation from me, um, as you mentioned that you're
in your 40s and and like youwere kind of like in the same
strain that you were saying,like I think the reason you know
, especially women, I meanpeople generally, but especially
(35:29):
women, um, in their 40s andonwards, but sometimes even like
anybody, any woman over 25,right, like, if you know,
there's this idea like if you'retoo old, uh, for leonardo
dicaprio to date you, your lifeis over, basically, and so and
that's the idea, there is thisvery terrible misogynist idea
(35:52):
that a woman's prime, or, youknow, women, only matter when
they're in their early 20s oreven childbearing years.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Is that what you're yeah, yeah, patriarchal thing to
say?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
That's your value.
Is that young, fresh and beable to produce lives?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
That's it Exactly young, fresh and be able to
produce lives that's it exactly,and it's tied to our beauty
standards, which are very muchlike you said in the beginning,
which is what I saw from themedia.
Growing up, you have to be, youknow, white, white, uh, very
thin there was no, there was norepresentation at all, like
exactly very thin, straight hairand also young, like you had to
(36:31):
be in your teens or early 20s.
That is beautiful, and so sopeople have this idea,
especially, you know, for agingwomen, uh, especially, but
people in general, they kind ofjust like give up on themselves
after a while.
They think that you know theirlives, your life ends at 30.
And you know, you're just kindof cruising after that and so,
(36:53):
and beauty standards are part ofwhat is making people feel that
way, and so that's anotherthing that I love about yellow
jackets and the representationit.
You know the stars, stars, youknow women in their 40s and also
you know their teenagecounterparts, who are being
played by teenage actresses, ofcourse, but it shows you that
(37:14):
you know.
It kind of like promotes theidea of like life doesn't end at
30 you know, you know it's socrazy because you're absolutely
right, by the way.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
I mean, I remember as I got older.
First of all, I'll say this Imet my husband when I was 26.
And I remember at that point Iactually had already felt like I
was getting too old.
Right, yeah, I need to getmarried.
Oh, my God, oh, the clock isticking If I don't get married
now and have kids in two years.
Like I don't want to be, likean old mom.
(37:45):
So I got to make sure that Igot to get married quick.
Well, first of all, my husbandwas like no, we're not.
Like he like put the kibosh onthat.
He's nine years older than me.
So he was like no, like he hadalready, he knew and he had
experience already.
He already had two kids when wemet and he was like no, like no
, I learned so much from him.
It was like it's astoundingjust because he was older and
able to like really be like no,like this is nonsense, like
(38:08):
really think about this, jen.
Um, but the ageism is there andI remember being like my
friends were all getting marriedagain, like everyone was
married by 25, everybody and Iwas.
I was like the last manstanding and because, and they
were like, why are you like, oh,you don't want to get married?
I'm like, well, I'm kind oflike focusing on my career, I'm
trying to build that like so Icould, you know, bring something
(38:28):
to the table.
I don't want to just getmarried.
Like that seems crazy to me,like I need to be able to stand
on my own two feet.
Lots of things on LinkedIn whereyou know the female quotient
that's one of the ones I followLike they have like really great
stuff that they put out andthey had they've been putting
(38:49):
stuff out, and one of the, sarahJessica Parker, just was on a
post where she was like talkingabout how, when they had the new
series come out you know thepost, like the older series of
sex in the city, and she waslike the comments were like so
horrible to the women about howthey looked old and this and
that, oh, you have gray hair now.
She's like, well, so does youknow this guy over here?
(39:10):
But nobody's talking about thisguy's gray hair.
Why are they so focused on mygray hair?
You know there's been a lot ofwomen that I've noticed recently
and I've talked to that noone's died.
A lot of women are not dyingtheir gray hair anymore, like
they're starting to embrace it.
And I don't dye my hair, I'mletting it go.
I'm like I'm getting gray hair.
But you know what I earned thatgray hair.
I've lived half my life.
(39:32):
At this point Like well, nothalf, I'm almost there, but I've
lived almost half my life.
Of course I'm going to havesome gray hair and I feel
distinguished by that.
I'm distinguished by I don'tlove the wrinkles, but I'm
distinguished by this becauseyou know what I earned all this.
I earned all the stretch markswith all these babies that I had
.
And I'm here to show up as,like Jenny Benitez, the person,
(39:54):
not like the shell of the humanbeing that the media tried to
wrap into this little packageand be like oh, by the way,
you're done at 40.
And now you have to just take astep back and just not do
anything else with yourself,like this is the best time I've
ever had, because I actuallytruly know myself now.
(40:17):
It never, you know, like you getto a certain point in your life
and you're like what?
I just figured out who I am.
Like, I've been figuring it outall along and I had points of
clarification, but this is thefirst time that I'm like no,
this is Jenny.
Like I'm Jenny, I'm showing upas Jenny.
I don't really care whatanybody else says about it.
Like you could, everyone canhave an opinion, that's.
That's the other thing.
I'm like you can have anopinion about me.
That's totally fine.
You're welcome to your ownopinion about me, but I know me
(40:37):
too and I have an opinion aboutme too.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
You know it's really funny.
I went to your LinkedIn profileand I saw the exact video that
you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I posted it.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah.
I mean, let's go oh my God, yes, and yeah, sarah.
I heard Sarah Jessica Parkerand, like she, her hair is
blonde.
Though that's what she wassaying.
She was like they said my hairis gray and it's not even gray,
it's like she dyes it blonde.
And then she has a picture ofher next to this younger guy,
but he's gone, completely grayand she's like but nobody talks
(41:09):
about that, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
And you know, you ever see, like all those posts
about, like you know, women onthe red carpet, like they're
being asked about like, oh,what's your outfit, how are you
handling being a mom?
And it's like, well, we're notasking any of the guys this like
, and that's part of the whole.
Like you know, media iscrafting the story and the story
is always like oh well, youknow, if you're a working mom,
you, you don't have the supportof society, you just don't.
(41:33):
I can attest to that.
No structure is set up forwomen to succeed professionally,
like none of it.
The only reason why I've gottenas far as I have is because I
work from home and my husbandstopped working for a couple of
years so that I could further mycareer.
There's no reason why it workedAmazing, yeah, which is
obviously.
It's actually a little bitfunny because he's very machismo
(41:55):
, so we like flip for a littlewhile and it was very funny for
everybody, they're like what'shappening.
But, honestly, the only.
I had his support and you knowhe he's been great in a lot of
ways with that.
He took on the brunt of like.
We have three children.
I have twin girls and a littleboy, and my son was born in 2016
(42:16):
.
The twins were born in 2017.
And then the pandemic happenedand everybody was shut down and
you know, we had to make adecision and you know, because
my job was virtual, I was likeI'm going to, I'm going to
continue on.
He was in construction, so hestayed with the kids and you
know, we just that was the onlyreason why it worked, because I
speak to women all the time nowthat have to leave the house to
go work and they have to traveland they have to do all these
(42:38):
things and they're going crazybecause they were.
Just.
Society is not set up tosupport us.
It just isn't, and we're bangingit down the door now, but it's
going to take time.
It's going to take a lot oftime to get us to where we
really need to be.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I think it's
great.
I applaud the women that arenot dyeing their hair Because it
takes a lot of work.
Because of my genetics, Iliterally started graying at 25,
but it's like society saysyou're expiring.
It's the worst.
(43:14):
If I was all gray like I wouldabsolutely just be rocking it,
but it's like a problem.
Only like a little bit hasturned gray.
Yeah, I feel crazy.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I have like streaks of it kind of happening at this
point.
I thought it was like well, theother day I thought it was like
a blonde highlight and it's notat all.
It was a straight up grayhighlight.
My stepdaughter is a stylist,really great stylist.
She's doing really a fabulousjob with her, her career and she
asked me all the time, wheneverI go to her to get my hair, she
(43:43):
said do you want it, do youwant to color it?
And I'm like I'm good, I'm allset.
I'm like well, also, don't getme started on putting chemicals
into my hair.
Like I won't, I don't do thateither.
So I'm like that's smart.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
That's smart.
Yeah, that's also beautyjustice, because I did do work
educating people about the toxicchemicals and like beauty
products, including like hairdye and like what you put on
your face.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Oh, it's relaxing.
I had no idea I had.
Oh well, that's like you know,and this is I digress a little
bit.
I just learned hold on, I haveto form the whole thought.
I think it was last year I didan episode on it the relation
with uterine fibroids and blackhair care exactly exactly.
(44:26):
My god, like I.
I couldn't believe it.
I also this goes to the mediathat we were talking about.
I also couldn't believe how itdidn't get any airtime.
I was very upset about thatbecause I worked in women's
health care for a while, acouple of years, and uterine
fibroids was one of the things,one of the disease states that I
(44:48):
focused in on and I'm like, ohwow, it predominantly affects
African American women.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
I'm like, oh wow, Like I wonder, why that is.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Like has anyone done any studies?
Whole time that I was workingon women's health, not one
person ever said anything to meabout that connection.
And then I happened to overhearmy husband was looking at
something on social media andhe's like just flipping and I
heard like five seconds of avideo and I was like, oh, could
you go back to that?
And he went back and I was likelet me fact check that.
And I started looking it up andthen I didn't.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
I did a whole episode on it.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
So I'm like is anyone aware?
Like does anybody know this?
Because we have wholegenerations of women, these
wonderful women they're reallystrong powerhouse women that are
losing their fertility becausethey don't know that the
products that they're using torelax their hair is actually
causing uterine fibroids.
And you're using it fromwhatever age.
(45:36):
That starts all the way throughadulthood.
You are poisoning your wholebody and you're not even being
told about it.
There's no disclaimer, there'snothing on the box Like like
blow it blew my mind.
I was so upset about it.
I was so upset when I foundthat out.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Exactly so.
That's like some of the workthat I was doing, like in the
black community in Los Angeles,was just educating about.
You know the harm of like putthe toxic relaxers right to make
you know curly hair or afrohair straight, how much
chemicals are in there and howit was.
There are literally lawsuitsright now that are tying it to
(46:10):
uterine fibroids and breastcancer and cervical cancer and
all of this stuff.
You know, and it's crazy, butwe're trying to do that and
we're trying to move towardslike organic and safe, you know
beauty products for the hair andthe face.
But the thing is is that whatwe've seen is that we'll lobby a
(46:30):
company to remove like toxinsand they will, but then they'll
replace it with something thatwe eventually realize is also
toxic.
Exactly so.
It's very.
And then, of course, like theFDA in the US never really
protected its people, it neverreally screened out the
chemicals that it needed to, andso that's a whole other thing.
So it's actually like healthierto buy like skin products in
(46:50):
like Korea or like in theEuropean, because they're
actually regulated like well,and so the craziest thing is
we're sitting here in the USthinking that we are protected.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
We're like the you know, cream of the crop kind
kind of a.
No, we're run by.
We're run by industry.
That's what we're run by.
We're not run by anything.
We are run by industry andindustry is making the policy.
That's really what it's boilingdown to exactly.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
And then now we have an administration that's like
not even hiding it, they're likethat's their whole front, like
let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
If my cut, my cousin, used to be my co-host on the
show, and if you two got into aroom together, you probably have
a lot to say to each other.
Because she's she.
I always tell her you know howyou said you, you started
blogging because she gets veryupset and she gets, she gets
very worked up and so I'll lether kind of go and then I'm like
listen, we can't do anythingabout this in the moment.
(47:40):
Let's just you got to figureout a different way, exactly
what you did your with your blogand like channeling yourself
there.
I actually do want to bring thatback up before we disconnect
that or before we hang up that.
You know you taking that on andusing that to channel like
where what your thoughts were.
I think that's such a reallygreat way to not let things be
(48:01):
stuck in your head and rattlingaround in your head, because
then you're going to be likedriving yourself crazy.
But yeah, it's.
You could, we could go down arabbit hole for like hours
talking about honestly like myhusband and I talk about it all
the time like oh my god did youread this like did you read you
know we're not supposed to beeating this either.
I'm like, oh my god, like it'scrazy.
Um, thank you so much forcoming on.
(48:22):
This has been such a funconversation conversation, by
the way, I know we had like weweren't like fun topics, but
talking with you has been likeI've really enjoyed it.
Honestly, you're you.
You show up very honestly andtruthfully and I really
appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah, thank you too.
Actually, it's very fun talkingto you.
You're like a very funpersonality, very bubbly, which
I also have, so it's perfect,tell yes, yeah go ahead like I
was saying um, because I'm likeso young, I'm like not ready to
have like patches of gray so Ido dye my hair and it takes,
(48:57):
it's hard work and like, but Iuse henna, which is like a
natural ingredient, so it's notchemicals, so I definitely
recommend that to anybodylistening.
If you have, you know, grayhairs and you'd like to dye your
hair, uh, try henna and there'sother like natural products and
they really work too.
And it's long lasting for me,like I, I literally only diet uh
(49:17):
like um every six months.
But the reason is because, likeI, because I have black hair, I
only like wash my hair everyweek, once a week yeah, I'm like
.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
I'm like twice a week .
I don't, I don't do it everyday.
That's crazy exactly, exactly.
So it doesn't like wash out thethe head up, but yeah so, and
it's only like nine bucks atlike, honestly, that's a good
solve and honestly and I doencourage people to start
looking into alternate like waysto color their hair if you
really want to do that, yeah, itis.
(49:48):
It's bad.
I was not in my hair blonde foryears.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
I'm like, oh god what have I done?
Speaker 1 (49:54):
not anymore.
Um, well, thank you so much forjoining us.
I'm going to link listeners, um, I'm gonna link the book in the
show notes and I'll link anyresources, mcdella, that you
want to share with the audience.
If you have any websites, youwant to point them to.
If you have a website, let meknow and we're going to link
everything into your descriptionand that way, the listeners can
reach out to you.
And you know, look at thematerials.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Awesome.
Yes, I have a websiteplussizebookcom.
Literally lowercase alltogether no spaces
plussizebookcom.
You can find me on Twitter andTikTok at plussizebook Same
thing, lowercase, no spaces atplussizebook.
And on Instagram it's atmcdellaa.
(50:37):
And on my website there's acontact page that has all of
this.
I also write articles on mediathat I've been watching that I
didn't write about in my book onMedium, so I have a Medium blog
where I also share insightsthere, and on Medium it's just
my name Megdela M-E-K-D-E-L-A,and on that note, I haven't
(51:02):
written anything on YellowJackets.
But one thing that's a realsell is that it has Melanie
Linsky, who is one of myfavorite actresses and she also
happens to be plus size.
Right, she happens to have likea fuller figure in a Hollywood
landscape where everyone issuper tiny, and she's talked
about it before and she doesgreat work and we love
(51:25):
representation.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you so much for joiningme today and listeners, thank
you for joining us to listeninto the discussion, and we will
catch you on the next one.
So take care, everybody, andhave a great day.
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