April 13, 2025 • 43 mins
Mina Brower shares her journey from Mexican-American immigrant to lawyer to author, highlighting how her postpartum therapy led her to rediscover her passion for writing and create a fantasy novel.
• Immigrating to America with her family and serving as a childhood translator and advocate
• Pursuing law while harboring a passion for writing fiction since childhood
• Finding her voice through writing during postpartum therapy after struggling with infertility
• Creating a fantasy novel featuring a PhD student heroine who must decide whether to embrace her magical legacy
• Balancing motherhood, career, and creative pursuits with supportive partnership
• Breaking generational patterns around mental health and self-care
• Recognizing that "if you can't fill your own cup, you are no good to your children"
• Understanding that the corporate world isn't designed for mothers, requiring creative solutions
• Finding your voice after trauma and transforming grief into creativity
Pre-order Mina Brower's fantasy novel, releasing June 30th! Visit our episode description for links to pre-order and connect with Mina on social media.
https://www.minabrowerbooks.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, this is Steel Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I'm super excited to introduceyou to our guest today, not just
because she's fantastic, butbecause we've tried to record
together at least three or fourtimes and it did not happen.
So today's the day.
I'm super excited about it.
So I want to have all of yougive a warm welcome to Mina
(00:22):
Brower.
She is a Mexican-Americancitizen who aims to inspire
other immigrants to chase theirdreams.
She's a wife, a mom and a lawyerand is proud to live a lifelong
dream of also adding author toher many lists of titles.
And if you were to ask Mina howshe balances it all, she would
give you a diplomatic, legaleseanswer of that depends, which I
think many of us would feelquite deeply.
(00:44):
Every time I read that line I'mlike, yeah, that's yeah, it
depends on the day.
You asked me, the time of day.
So, mina, welcome to the show.
I'm super excited that we'rehere.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I know I was like it's meant to be.
We're doing it today.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I pulled out all the stops I was like it's happening.
Mina, I would love it if youintroduced yourself to the
listeners and tell them a littlebit about your story, because I
mean you have a quite a widerange here.
I mean, you're a lawyer, beyondthe wife and mom, which we
already know is like tough stuff.
You're also a lawyer and nowyou're also an author, so I'd
(01:20):
love to hear your story.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah Well, thank you for having me on, I appreciate
it.
I'd love to hear your story.
Yeah Well, thank you for havingme on, I appreciate it.
But yeah, so my story, my lore.
That's like the new Instagramgoing around they're talking
about everyone's lore.
So my story began pretty muchwhen we immigrated here.
I immigrated here to the UnitedStates with my parents, united
(01:49):
States with my parents, and weimmigrated and my parents were
so focused on the American dreamand what that typically is
looks like for immigrants.
So typically, you'll see, youknow, if a family immigrates
together, the parents alwayswant their children to be
doctors or lawyers, that verylike high education,
postgraduate sort of lifestyle,and I understand that from my
perspective of trying to, youknow, gain some stability and
trying to make sure that thechild is prosperous in the
(02:11):
future.
So education is very heavy.
It's a very heavy topic for alot of immigrant families and
that was my case.
So we immigrated here and myparents were very, very tough
when it came to, you know, toschool and education and all of
that.
And we were all learningEnglish together at the same
time and I think because forkids if there's any immigrants
(02:34):
listening out there who learnedEnglish as a second language.
When you're a child, when youlearn English, you pick it up
fairly quickly, and for adultsit's a little bit difficult,
just because the kids' brainsare like sponges, right.
So my parents would say thingslike can you help me translate
this, or can you help metranslate this, or let's go to
the grocery store and I need youto, like, help me order this.
(02:54):
So that was, that was myexperience, which is not unique,
it's very common, but I think,because of the advocacy that I
did in a very young age, um, andthe reading that I had to do,
like high end, like reading,like leases and things like that
, I was sort of put on a sort ofautomatic path of advocacy.
(03:16):
So my parents were like, well,you know, you can be a doctor or
a lawyer, so let's, let's pick.
I was like, okay, what aboutwriter?
Because I love writing, becauseyou guys have me writing, you
have me reading all of thesepick.
And I was like, okay, whatabout writer?
Because I love writing, becauseyou guys have me writing, you
have me reading all of thesethings, and I'm doing all of
these things, and and they'relike no, definitely not writer.
And I said, okay, well, let, letme, let me, let me, let me do
(03:36):
lawyer Right.
And I think it's.
I think, if you don't have theimmigrant experience like that,
to ask a child to make adecision like that very early on
is sounds very, almost too muchright like at the top, um, but
again, I understand it from awanting to fulfill the American
dream perspective, um.
So anyways, we, um, we set on apath of like this higher
(03:59):
education sort of goal and inthe middle of that I developed a
love of writing fiction, and itwas something where it became
my passion, my hobby, and wewould have family parties I mean
, we're Hispanic, so big familyparties like music and
everything.
I would be upstairs in my roomin the family desktop which was
conveniently in my room, typingand writing and short stories
(04:23):
and everything.
And eventually my claim to fame,according to me, is that I won
my school's young authorcompetition, which is like a big
deal because it's like you, mybook, my book, went to like
regionals or something like that, or just state, and I thought I
made it.
I came home with a littletrophy and I told my parents I'm
like look like there's a futurein this and they're like no,
(04:44):
you're in eighth grade, likerelax, relax.
So then you know I, you knowthe years pass by and it wasn't
until I became a mom and wasdealing with.
I did eventually go to lawschool, thank goodness for my
parents, and it's something thatI do enjoy.
But it wasn't until mypostpartum journey, after
(05:04):
becoming a mom, that I reallygave writing a chance, because
at the time, shortly after Igave birth, I was in therapy for
postpartum emotions andfeelings and all of that and my
therapist said have you everconsidered writing out your
feelings and your emotions,because you have a lot of
warring feelings of sadness,happiness, all of that.
And I said, well, I love writing.
(05:26):
I never thought of, you know,looking at it like this.
So a lot of things cametogether and I was able to sort
of start writing and revisitthat passion of mine.
And yeah, and then just, I meanjust for for everyone's you
know purposes that are listening, and even to you, jenny, I know
(05:47):
that you're so passionate aboutwomen balancing everything that
is going on in their lives.
I think it's so important thatwe talk about it.
For me, specifically, when Istarted writing this book, I was
struggling with a lot of reallysad emotions because I had
suffered from infertility forsuch a long time.
A lot of really sad emotionsbecause I had suffered from
infertility for such a long time.
(06:08):
So for me it was like I'mtrying to be a lawyer, I'm
trying to be a new mom, I'mbalancing all of these feelings
and emotions that are I shouldbe really happy that I'm a new
mom, but I'm, like, extremelysad because I've suffered so
much loss.
So, yeah, it's just, it's a lotof things came together and
then the book startedmaterializing and then, you know
, one thing led to another andthen I eventually published a
year after.
But yeah, that's sort of that'show it happened.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So you, you touched on a lot of things that I want
to.
I want to talk about a lot sowell.
First and foremost, my, my, um,my, I am my husband's
Ecuadorian, so I'm verywell-versed with the big family
parties.
I have to tell you, as you weretalking about, that, I was
picturing the very first yearthat we moved into our house.
Um, we decided it would be agreat idea to um host
(06:55):
Thanksgiving three weeks afterwe moved in, and by we, I don't
mean me, um, but the idea.
The idea was he was so, he wasso excited, he was so excited,
and we didn't have any furniture.
I had to order folding tablesfrom Amazon, like there was
nothing here.
But, that's the typical.
(07:16):
Hispanic party folding tablesand chairs.
So I love that part of yourstory because it does provide a
little bit of a glimpse of whatit is when you do immigrate here
and what you're looking for.
You know you're looking andwhat your parents are looking
for, because I've heard similarfrom my in-laws that they they
(07:38):
really just they wanted theirkids to get an education, they
wanted them to be successful, tohave something better than what
they had and thankfully, forthe most part, they all did.
But that's really what it is,like everyone's.
You're coming here because youwant something a little bit
better and here's the placewhere this can really happen,
like you can make it happen.
So I really resonated with thatpart of your story because of
(08:00):
my husband and just knowing whathe went through and he
immigrated here when he was alittle little kid, so so you
know, but he had the sameexperience as you were, like he
always helped his parents out.
He still does it.
His parents didn't really everlearn English, so it was just,
if anything.
I actually learned Spanish whenwe, when we were dating, cause I
was like I'm going to need totalk to my mother-in-law at some
point, um, so that makes Ithink that I really liked that
(08:27):
part of your story, the partthat I also want to touch on,
because you this is where thisis the pivotal moment you
becoming a writer because I mean, being a lawyer is in itself is
like that's huge, and any womanafter having a child, like
you're, I used to say when I waspregnant with my son, sounds so
(08:49):
stupid now, but when, when Iwas pregnant with my son, I used
to tell people that I workedwith oh yeah, I can't wait to
have him Because then regularJenny will be back not pregnant
Jenny and I kept saying regularJenny is going to be here, like
regular Jenny will be able to doyou know the workload that I
used to do and I always referredto be here, like regular Jenny
will be able to do the workloadthat I used to do, and I always
referred to regular Jenny.
And then my son was born and Ihad the shock of, oh that Jenny
(09:11):
isn't here anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Priority shift.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, there wasn't a regular Jenny anymore, it was
mom Jenny, and nobody reallytalks about that part.
That's like there is a veryhuge thing that happens there.
Now, after you have a baby, youknow, I don't know if you've
heard this before, but after youhave a baby there's an actual
physical change that happens inwomen's brains.
(09:35):
That is chemical and it will.
It'll show like our brains willshift and change because now
we've had a child and so we're.
It's basically like a, it's anold thing, that's just like kind
of part of our biology and thatmental shift happens that we
can care for our children.
That's also the reason why momsand dads will have a lot of
(09:56):
conflict after a child is born,because that has not happened to
the man and it's not his fault.
He's going to continue, it'snot biological for him, so he's
going to continue on living hislife.
And you're changed deeply andthen you're like what's wrong
with you?
Why aren't you changed deeply?
Like it's just?
But there's the actual physicalreason.
(10:17):
I like to highlight that becausea lot of people have a lot of
marriage problems andself-included.
I'm not, I'm not exempt fromthat.
Yeah Right, I think the worst Iwas just telling someone today.
The worst part, the worst timesin our marriage was the first
few years when we were havingkids, because it was so
straining on and draining on us.
(10:38):
I was incredibly sleep deprived.
I had postpartum depressionafter my pregnancies.
I still tried to work.
It really does snowball.
So I, like I want you to talk alittle bit more about how did
you, when you started writingpostpartum, did you go right
(11:01):
into creative?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
mode or did you start journaling and going from there
?
Yeah, so I also, also, you know, I also absolutely experienced,
like the, the marital sort ofin crisis situation we can talk
about that as well.
But, um, yeah, so, uh, rightbefore I got pregnant, I was
sort of journeying, likejournaling a little bit, because
I never gave up on my dream oflike writing but I never took it
(11:23):
seriously.
So I was creating this universe, world series and it never
really went anywhere.
But the shift for me happenedand during that moment in time
where my therapist said, okay,well, you need to figure out how
(11:43):
to get you these, how to getthese emotions out.
So I talked with my husband andI said, you know, this is
something that I need to dobecause I'm already, you know, I
was.
I was put into therapy while Iwas pregnant because I was a
very high risk of beingpostpartum depression.
Postpartum depression my, my,my, my gyno obstetrician team
(12:04):
were like amazing.
They were like all right,you're high risk because, like,
your job is very like stressful,like I mean I were.
I was working when I was inlabor, I was sending work emails
, right.
That sounds about right, yeah,so so my, my, my, yeah, my
doctor were like okay, we'regoing to put you in therapy,
like, and you're going tocontinue in therapy.
So, um, and I just graduatedfrom therapy, like um, probably
(12:24):
less three months ago, butanyways.
So I said to my husband I needto do this, I need to um, be
able to, you know, do thisexercise with my therapist.
And my husband said which, itdoesn't, there's very I don't
want to villainize all men, butit's not really typical because
he said to me okay, it's nottypical.
Okay, so it ended up workingout that from 9 pm to 12, every
(12:49):
single day I had me time, whichis not normal.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Not normal.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Not normal, because I started writing my book when I
was five months postpartum.
So it was incredible for my tosee my husband step up um in the
in the in the parent department, and then the, the uh, the
partner department, and to say,okay, I got the house, I'll be
downstairs washing dishes, I'llbe downstairs sanitizing the
(13:17):
bottles, Um, and, and we'll makeit work.
It worked out for me because Iwas.
I was in breastfeeding at thattime because my milk just like
stopped.
Yeah, so I was.
We were feeding formula, sothat helped a lot and when you
feed formula, typically babiesfall asleep quicker and longer,
because that's what I did.
Right, right.
So I don't want to make it seemlike it's like this fairy tale,
(13:38):
like there was.
You know, there was a lot ofthings involved that made it
possible so I could write, butmy husband, um, you know, he
would bring me up like mocktails, like because I don't really
drink.
So he would like he would buy,like the fake alcohol that he
would bring me up like margaritajalapeno mocktails and he had
the cure.
um, he, he was just soaccommodating and I think he saw
how much I was strugglingmentally that he was like if
(14:00):
you're, if you're not're notokay, you can't be a good mom,
and I know that you're going tofeel like shit if you're not a
good mom.
So, let's get you to a placewhere you are able to function
and and, yeah so.
So that's sort of what made itpossible for me to um, to get to
that moment.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You know, I want to touch on um the support of your
husband there, because andbecause I always do want to say
it like I like to say I'm like Idon't want to villainize men
either Like obviously I'mmarried, they have their place.
I mean, come on, like what Ididn't do and I'm I'm in the
middle of writing somethingthat's supposed to be released
(14:39):
later this year as part of abook, and in part of it, I'm
telling my story a little bitabout how I never asked for help
.
Yes, I very deeply.
I was raised in a house whereit was like, if you're a martyr,
that's the best thing for you.
Turn the other cheek, sacrifice, self-sacrifice, just do it.
(15:00):
And I remember like thismessaging coming along
consistently and in my head as agrowing up.
I remember being like no, likethat's crazy, I'm not doing all
this.
And I remember seeing like mymom was not happy at the end,
like she was resentment andbitter.
And I remember being like I'mnot going to be like that, but
the learned behavior was alreadythere, and so I had my son in
(15:23):
2016, and then I had twins in2017.
And, out of sheer determinationto prove people wrong, I was
like I will carry all of this.
I will still travel for work, Iwill still push my career
forward and I can be a great mom.
And I can be a great mom.
And that thought is insanebecause it truly takes a village
(15:46):
.
And had I actually acceptedhelp, I, I refuse, I refused
help.
Like my parents would come over, my aunt would come over.
My husband had two older kids,like he's been, he's been down
the road before.
He already knew what to do.
But I was determined to be likeno, these are my children, I'm
caring for them, like that's it.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So, even when I was pregnant, I refused.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Even when the help was there, I was like no, it's
fine, they're like Jenny, justgo go lay down, like go rest.
And I and I refused it and Igot to a certain point where it
blew up in my face basicallybecause I just kept saying no
and I should have asked for helpand it just I couldn't at the
time.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I still have a little trouble with it, but not as
much as I used to like, I don'tgo away ever, because it's
that's our, you know immediatethat's our immediate well.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
so my point with that whole long like rant, because I
think I've been thinking abouthim like my god, jenny, yeah,
you know, hopefully I can teachmy daughters better.
But my whole point there isthere's a lot of instances where
we're not clear with ourhusbands about what we need.
They're not mind readers Right.
Like communication is such ahuge deal.
So, like my husband and I are,I work in communications in
(16:54):
general and he just likes totalk.
So but he, he, you know, whenhe came into this marriage and
he, I learned so much from himbecause he did come in and
anytime there was something thatwould happen that like seemed
like there was a tone ofresentment or seemed like it
wasn't quite done yet he wasvery much that we're not going
to sleep until until we talk itout until we're cool.
And I was always like, oh please, can we please, you know.
(17:16):
But he was like no, like we'rewe're addressing this, like
we're not going to fail here,like're going to make this
happen.
And you know, I think thatthat's part of the issue with
women across the board is, ifyou don't ask for help and
you're not very clear to yourhusband, like I'm falling apart,
it's okay to say it, I'mfalling apart.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I'm not myself.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I'm out of my head.
I'm out of my head Especiallylike after work, like something
so simple, like them coming homefrom work and you've been with
the kids for hours, right?
Um, because I, I work from home.
So like I know, I, I have, Ihave help, right, so like I I'm
not by myself with her, like Ihave help here inside of my
house but, then my husbandeventually comes home and like I
(17:54):
mean I'm home, so like I, I I'mstill sort of interacting with
my child.
And then my husband comes homeand I'm like, okay, well, like I
, I'm touched out, yes, I don'twant to talk to anybody, I'm
going to go into our bedroom andI'm going to lay down and I'm
going to be on Instagram for thenext hour.
Do not talk to me, bother me,and I'm not available, and you
figure it out.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Figure it out.
I say that the way that I sayit to my kid.
I'm like mommy just needs to bea potato for a minute.
Yeah, please, just I can't talkto you, I can't.
And I I was.
I was texting one of my momfriends and I was like it's like
a wild overload because it'llbe like TV here.
And then all three of my kidsare so close in age and it
(18:36):
happened earlier when I wasgetting them ready for bed.
I was sitting in the girl'sroom and my son is sitting next
to me, my daughter's in thechair, my other daughter's over
here, and Vincent starts to talkto me and then he was like 75%
of the way done with his thought.
But then the other one startedtalking and she was about 50%
done, and then the third one,and so they were literally all
talking at the same time and Iwas like okay, wait.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And I was like trying to yeah, we're the nurturer,
and it's like people can't seeme, but I'm quoting.
We're supposed to take it allin.
That's, you know, that's theimage of women and of moms.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
And we can't do it all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
The mental drain is very real.
I'm actually very impressedthat you do have that buffer
time at the end of your day, bythe way, because that's actually
been something I alwaysstruggle with.
So, like you're seeing me whereI record right now.
Like where I record right now,this is like an office space.
It used to be a dining roomarea, but we converged it to an
office space for me, and rightthere in that black hole behind
(19:37):
me, that's the living room.
So when I'm working here,they're usually all right there,
and then it doesn't even reallymatter if I move something,
because we have an officeupstairs too.
So sometimes I'll go up thereif I really need to be by myself
.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
The noise follows you .
Speaker 1 (19:55):
They will come upstairs Even if the door is
locked.
They will start playing rightoutside the door.
That's everywhere I go and I Ihave to laugh about it a little
bit, because it's always likelittle ducklings, like they will
follow me and they will notleave me right?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
no, it's like to go to the bathroom.
It's like an open door policy.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It's like oh my god, can I please like I can't even I
can't even get a minute inthere, because it's always as
soon as I, as soon as I go inthere, I hear like mommy, are
you so the?
So the key takeaway here is thestruggle is very real for all
of us.
Yes, and when you work fromhome, mina, I actually really
(20:34):
love that you step away.
I I'm.
I've been really wanting to dosomething like that, to do it
Like I need to take 15 minutes,because even like today, I had
to.
I worked until five, from fiveto six, I like whipped together
dinner.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I had another call at six and they had to put your
kids to bed because then I hadto get them showered and do all
that.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So it was like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And it's honestly I think it's and I think it's
beneficial for our partners aswell.
Um, I might come fromeventually my parents divorced.
So I come from from that verybackground of seeing adults not
communicate effectively andseeing how a marriage can
deteriorate.
So for me, it's even morebeneficial for me to take after
(21:18):
my daughter is in bed and she'ssleeping, for me to just if I'm
not, even if I'm not writing, tojust take an hour by myself and
then to just afterwardsinteract with my husband,
because then it's not fair tohim.
either you know what I mean.
Or even if people sometimesdon't have an hour, right, 15
minutes, like you said, or 30minutes, honestly to, to allow
yourself, to nurture yourself,but then also be ready to have
(21:43):
have a meaningful time with yourpartner.
Yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
If you're not filling your own cup Right.
Exactly what you said in thebeginning when you talked about
how your husband supported youduring your postpartum
depression period.
If you can't correct what'sgoing on in yourself, if you
can't fill your own cup, you areno good to your children.
You just aren't.
And, like I had my big shiftaway from being in the burnout
(22:08):
model consistently and reallynot paying attention to my own
cup literally happened likethree years ago when we moved
into this house and I had like acatalyst moment of I was
working these wild hours and mykids grew up outside with my
husband and I had to watch fromthe window.
Because I was working thesewild hours and my kids grew up
outside with my husband and Ihad to watch from the window.
Because I was working thesecrazy hours Like I didn't teach
them to swim or dive off thediving board or do any of those
(22:30):
cool things.
That was all.
My husband and I watched it allfrom upstairs the whole time,
like eating away at me, like wow, like I wanted so badly to have
children and now, instead ofbeing with my kids, I'm like up
here working.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I'm like this doesn't match up the, the, the, the,
the working model is notdesigned for mothers.
And you can have as muchparental leave, whatever you
want to call it, you can have anincredible HR department or
whatever, but the, the corporate, the world and and professions
aren't designed for moms.
And it's very sad, um, becauseyou know, we want to continue
(23:07):
working, yeah, we want tocontinue, like it cost me a lot,
like emotionally and andphysically and all these things
become a lawyer I mean, it's agood and or or any profession,
right, um, and then to to see itall sort of um shift
drastically and have like anidentity crisis almost of like,
what am I doing?
Is this even worth my time?
(23:28):
Because, like you said, mychild is outside playing, you
know, and I'm in here, literallyalso also me, watching it from
the window yeah so it's, it's avery coming to god moment of
what do I do?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, Well, so I will say this In that moment that's
actually when the podcast wasborn.
That was when the podcast wasborn.
So it's very interesting to mebecause every single woman that
comes onto this podcast andshares their story there was a
catalyst moment of cancer insome instances, a death in their
(24:03):
family, an assault, like therewas something that happened that
the woman has decided I am notliving my life like this anymore
.
So I had that catalyst momentbecause I came up from this
project that was like threeweeks long.
I hadn't seen my kids, eventhough I live in this house, and
they were all bigger and I wastotally crushed.
So I had this.
(24:24):
You know what you've talkedabout podcasting.
That seems like somethingthat's really big.
Why don't you just do it, justgo for it?
And in pulling that trigger, italigned me with a whole bunch
of people that have pushed mylife into a whole different
pathway that I would have neverbeen able to do, and I now have
more balance now than I ever hadbefore in my life, into a whole
different pathway that I wouldhave never been able to do.
And I now have more balance nowthan I ever had before in my
(24:46):
life.
Right and I have autonomy in mywork, in my daytime job, to be
able to step away Right, whichis huge, like my kids came home
from school at three, 55 and Imade everybody their snacks and
had made sure they had healthyfood, and I was able to actually
do that without feeling like Ihad this pit of like oh my God,
(25:08):
work, oh my God, I got to get tomy emails.
It's not like that, and it'sonly because I've been able to
do this now, and I'll also saythis before we move on.
So I want to talk about yourbook release.
Another thing that I starteddoing is I get up super early.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I need to start doing that.
I get up super early so I tryfor five, but that doesn't
really happen because I like tosleep.
So usually at like 5.45, 6o'clock is when I start to
really get up, and then I havefrom 6 am to 7 am or 6.45 to
just write.
I do journaling.
(25:43):
I started journaling this year.
So every, every morning Ijournal and then I'll do
meditation, affirmation,visualization.
Sometimes I do yoga, like itdepends on like how much time I
have, but that moment in themorning feeds me for the entire
day.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yes, cause you, you find you, center yourself.
It it's uh, you're feeding yoursoul you're feeding your
spirituality.
Um, you know you're not praying, but it's.
It's a form of spiritualityyeah to be at peace with your
soul.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So yeah, yeah, it's, it's huge and I know like not
everyone's morning people, somepeople would rather do that at
night.
I'm not a night person because,as you said, like I want to
spend the evening with myhusband, like he worked all day.
I worked all day.
Like let's hang out.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
When is a Netflix episode gonna get watched, right
?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
and it's funny because that's what we do, like
we pick a series and we're likeoh yeah, um.
So you went through postpartum,your husband was very he
supported.
You was eight, you were able tomake it through and in that you
found your voice again.
In writing yes and how did that?
How did the writing to the bookcome to me like, how did you
(26:51):
get there?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
so, um, I started.
Okay, how do I explain this?
Uh, so I basically one of thecharacters and a lot of writers
will will say that this happenedto them as well.
My one of my characters came tome in a dream and, um he, he
basically visited me and, andthe scene where he, where he
visited me, I put it in my bookand it's like almost verbatim,
(27:15):
and I mean I felt like he waslike maybe like an angel or or
just some something from mysubconscious saying like, hey, I
, I'm here.
Oh, there's a story, there's astory worth telling here of a
woman finding her voice aftersuffering.
And, um, I sort of let thatguide me into this fantastical
world where, um, yeah, people,the male main character is
(27:41):
dealing with grief of havinglost his future wife and people
around him dying, and he'scarrying this survivor's guilt
and the woman had been carryinghis child.
So it's just, it was a way forme to connect and create a
character that was like dealingwith grief at the same time that
I was dealing with grief withmy pregnancy losses.
(28:01):
So he is the god of moonlightand stardust.
So he is.
He is the.
The title is the book of thefirst book.
The title of the first book isnamed after him.
Um, so he really taught me alot about processing my own,
like again, emotions about griefand all that.
And then I created, um, this,this bad-ass woman who was so
(28:22):
strong and fierce that the dreamvisitor that came to me was,
like hey, there's a story hereabout, like, a woman finding her
voice and I created her and sheyou know, it's a fantasy book,
so there's magic and there'ssupernatural, because that's so
cool to me and she hassupernatural powers and, and she
has supernatural powers and sheis a daughter of a villainous
(28:43):
God in a dystopian, postapocalyptic world, and in this
post apocalyptic world, magic isforbidden.
Her question whether she shouldembrace the legacy of magic
within her and use it, um, ortry to be as normal and as
(29:05):
invisible as possible and, like,try to fit into this society.
And then the god of moonlandand stardust helps her sort of
claim and and understand heridentity.
So that's sort of you know, um,I gotta ask if it's
autobiographical.
Certainly not, but there areelements there that I can see
(29:26):
Elements of survival.
You know of a woman making itdespite all odds, despite, you
know, very extreme hardshipslike domestic violence, and you
know PTSD and anxiety, and she'sa fighter and I think women and
she's also a PhD student.
So she's like an older femalebook character she's not 18.
(29:49):
So she has this life experiencethat she's gone through and I
feel like I wrote her in mindwith all of the incredible women
that are, you know, in theirmid thirties up, you know, who
have all this life experienceand these loves and these losses
and and are just dying to finda voice after you know these, um
(30:09):
, potential very sad events.
So, and then, having asupportive partner as well.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
You know, I, I like that you chose that age range
quite a bit, Cause you're right,Like most of the books are like
, oh, she was like 22 and likewhatever.
You know, I, I recently said tosomebody well, first of all,
it's a little bit funny Causeyou know, like when you are 18
or whatever that age, you thinkabout your forties and you're
like, oh God, that's like it'slike really old.
It's also it's like really old.
(30:36):
Now I'm there and I'm like,wait, hold up.
I'm almost there too and I'mlike, no, it's young, it's young
, it's young.
Well, so I, I was talking to myhusband about this the other day
, Cause I had, I, when did Ihave my kids?
I think I was like 31 and 32when I had them.
I only really had just startedscraping the surface of who
Jenny is in my thirties, andthen my whole thirties felt like
(31:00):
I was digging myself out oftoxic behaviors, bad habits,
Like I mean I just explained indetail, like how I never asked
for help, Like, like, please,you know, give me a break here.
I didn't really have my, Ididn't have my catalyst moment
that pushed me to where I am nowuntil I was like 38.
You know, like I was, I wasolder and I feel like you know,
(31:22):
there was this whole like ageistculture.
That's like oh, you're gettingolder?
Yeah, oh God, it's like.
Oh, women, women, getting olderis like, you know, you're a hag
, you're a um, what is it?
Not a crow?
Um, a crone.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Did you know?
Like there was um, oh, spinster.
This is something I talkedabout recently actually.
(31:43):
Okay, hold on On the shelf,first of all.
First of all, the first.
I remember being told that, solike when I was in like my early
twenties and I was single, andeveryone's like, oh, you need to
get married and you do this,you don't want it, you don't
want to be a spinster.
And I was like, do I not wantto?
Okay, well, listen to thisthough Historically, spinster
the term spinster was originallycoined to describe a female who
(32:08):
was unmarried but she had herown business.
Like she is a spinster, meaninglike she spun, like, I think,
wool or thread or whatever itwas.
So she was called a spinsterbecause that was her job.
That was something that she did, and somehow that got like
misconstrued into like, oh,you're a spinster, like that's
bad.
This was the first.
Like women, woman entrepreneur.
(32:29):
What are we talking about?
This is the okay, yeah, I'dlike to be a spinster right now.
Like that'd be awesome if Icould like, like you, know
everything, everything that hasto do with women.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Seems getting older seems to have this like terrible
connotation that you have tohave your stuff figured out and
she doesn't.
And it's interesting because somy character she has like
everything like academicallygoing for her she's in, she's
doing her phd and everything andthe classics, um, but in terms
of her personal life she has it,she does not have it figured
(32:58):
out.
Yeah, and that's so refreshingto me I mean, thank goodness
it's real.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
That's real Like who has it figured out?
Again, I just started and Iturned 41 this year and now I'm
like I said to my cousin, I'mlike I feel like my 40s are
going to be really like amazing.
Because now I'm like and you'rearrived.
Yes, I'm like you know, I saidthat I'm like I feel like I'm
here, like I'm awake and I I'mlike owning this and I'm present
(33:24):
and I'm not like wishing thetime away, like I actively make
it a point.
What was it?
What's today, tuesday?
Yeah, yesterday everybody hadoff, you know, and my kids had
off, and I had actually plannedon it being like a podcasting
work day and I was like, ooh,like I was all excited to do it,
and it just kind of snowballedbecause I was alone with my kids
(33:45):
and I sat down to do some workand to work on this write this
book chapter that I'm writingfor this book for later this
year.
And I um, I started, I got acouple of sentences in and they
were just kind of bickering, youknow, like kids, like they're
just bickering with each other.
And I kind of just stopped andI was like, what are you doing?
They're home, yeah, just hangout with them.
(34:06):
Like, yeah, just whatever, likeyou're not going to get your
stuff done, just just be coolwith it and move on with your
life.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
You're only so little for such a little time.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yes, yeah, exactly.
So I love that your characteris in a point in her life where
she's still trying to figurethings out, she's still trying
to find her own voice, she'strying to heal from past trauma,
which I mean that's in itselfalso I want to talk about,
because, you know, in our agerange you're younger than me but
still, like in this grouping,our parents' generation mental
(34:37):
health was not like a thing.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It wasn't especially, I mean especially for Hispanics
.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Definitely not for Hispanics.
No, not even.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And your husband, or maybe you still see it in like
his family.
It's just, it's not.
It's not real.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
No.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
And I remember a family member asking for help
and I was a child but I was likeI was there for that
conversation and an adult in mylife said I need help, like I
need help, like I need apsychologist.
And another adult in my lifelooked at this person and said
are you, are you crazy?
Do you want to go to like aninsane asylum?
(35:11):
It was such an extreme responseto someone saying like, hey, I
need help.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
But yeah, mental health is just not it wasn't a
thing, and so it makes sense tome that our generation I guess
I'm an older millennial is whatI've been told.
I am the older millennialgeneration.
We're on the cusp of like oh,we can really make big shifts
for society.
(35:37):
Yes, we get the knowledge ofour parents and what they did
that didn't really work, and nowwe can really come here and
like show and we have the tools.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Therapy is much more accessible now.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Oh, I did telehealth.
Yeah, you know I was doingtelehealth.
I didn't even have to leave myhouse.
And I know some people even dolike um, like texting therapists
.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Oh, I would do that, a hundred percent yeah.
Oh, it's's like it's soaccessible any which way that
you want it and I also, I alsothink like the, the branding up,
like I mean, people aren't aslike scared to say like oh, I'm
in therapy.
No, you know, it's not like it,you don't have the same thing
yeah it's applauded.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
It's seen as a very positive thing yeah, I think
that 30 years ago that was notthe case.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I and honestly like it.
It does say a lot about thestate of like people that are
older than us now, because Iremember I had tried to.
I have two brothers, I'm inbetween them, I have an older
and a younger and I had tried toexplain to my mom the one time
something that she did that Iwas like mom, look, I'm an adult
now, so it doesn't bother me asmuch, but I want you to know
(36:43):
that when you do this action,you're telling me I'm not as
important as my brothers.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
right, and she was like well, I'm a terrible mother
, no, she just Mina.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
She all she did was she rolled her eyes and did this
deep sigh of oh, give me abreak.
I was like, all right, forgetit, nevermind.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Or you get the classic.
Oh, I'm a terrible mom.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I'm so terrible.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I gave you guys so much trauma and it's like, no,
that's not what I was trying totell you.
No, we're not doing this sothat you can turn it around and
then make me feel bad for likeno-transcript of this villainous
(37:50):
god and it's just like theirstories of how they deal with um
.
Having this legacy of magic ofthis very like terrible this is
very cool domestic abuser,basically, and and how they find
their voice and their and theirpower.
Because, um, you know it's,it's very much the story of I
don't want to be like my parents, yeah, and what happens if you
(38:11):
have their magical powers.
So it's that question of likeokay, well, you know what it's
like, even for you and for me,how we were just talking about
like we're learning theselessons from our, you know, very
like baby boomer parents orlike older parents and I don't
want to be like that.
But what happens if you havemagical powers?
So that's the question, and howyou know, how do you navigate
(38:34):
that?
Speaker 1 (38:34):
So you know what the through line is there I was
thinking about while you'retalking, because in the story
it's like well, what if you havetheir?
If you have their, you knowmagical powers.
Like so, you are kind of likethem, yes, but that also that
applies, though, to what we weretalking about like you're going
to have parts of your parents.
There's, like I said, there'slearned behavior that you can't
avoid yeah how can you make itwork for you, which is, I'm
(38:55):
having a sense that that's whatthese women do how can you use
it for good and not evil?
Speaker 2 (38:59):
because he like's a fantasy, so he's like a
villainous God, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
This is fantastic.
I'm very excited.
I'm very excited and I alsolove these types of books
because I have to be honest withyou.
I'm so serious all the time.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yes, I need that.
Like there's just a mentalescape.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Just a mental escape, that's just a release and it's
like this is fun and like I'vebeen watching a bunch of like
new, like Netflix series becauseof it.
I'm like I just need somethingthat's not educational and I
used to be teaching myself allthe time.
I'm excited about it.
So, listeners, what I'm goingto do is because, um, her book
is not being released until June30th, but the airing of your
episode is actually going to bein April and the listeners are
(39:41):
listening right now in April.
So it'll be fine, but whatwe'll do is we're going to link
your website and your socials inthe description of the episode.
So, listeners, you can follow.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
And they can pre-order the book.
They'll be able to pre-order.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
There you go, perfect Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
They'll be able to pre-order it, and the ebook at
least, and then I feel that byApril potentially maybe they'll
be able to pre-order thepaperback.
So I'll give you all theinformation.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Okay, cool.
So then Mina and I will connectbefore the episode airs.
We'll get all the appropriatelinks in there and then, even
when it airs, let's do a littlesplash.
We wanna make sure thelisteners know, because that's
super exciting.
Yeah, mina, thank you so muchfor coming on, and I'm so glad
we actually got to record today.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Oh, thank you, and I and I and I really appreciate
that you created this space forwomen to talk about these issues
, because I've listened to yourother episodes and it's
refreshing to find honesty,because I feel like social media
portrays this image thateveryone has their shit together
(40:48):
and we don't.
And I think we need space likeraw, real spaces like this,
where women can say like hey, solife sucks.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah, I'm a mess.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
And I'm trying to do the best, yeah, and this is
what's working, what's notworking, and yeah, so I really
appreciate the value that youbring to a space that needs this
conversation.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
That you made my whole day, because I'm in season
three now, so I'm like threeseasons, like it's been a lot
and people resonate yeah, yeah,you know it's.
It's been a really honestly areally beautiful journey and the
part that, like you said,people are resonating with the
episodes and I mean I wastelling somebody recently they
(41:36):
were asking me like, well, whatdo you do on social media, like
what do you do this like?
And you know it's basicallylike, what are you doing?
That's like bro marketing, likethat kind of thing, and I don't
do bro marketing, like I reallyjust will release stuff when I
can, and but the listenership itwent international on its own
and the reach extended quitesignificantly on its own.
And the listenership it waslike up by 400% in season three
(42:02):
on its own, like truly just onits own.
People are finding their way andmuch like what we said earlier
with you read a book when it'sappropriate for the time for you
to read it.
I feel like that with thispodcast, people are finding it
when they need to hear thismessage and each episode has its
own message and it's not thesame content over and over again
and it's new things and newvoices and even if it's the same
(42:24):
subject, it's still a new voiceand a different perspective.
And you really took the premiseand summarized it quite nicely,
because this is meant to be anon-judgmental space where we
can just have an organicconversation and the listeners
can know that they're not aloneyeah, I mean like if someone
listening they might not be alawyer, they're not alone.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, I mean like someone listening they might not
be a lawyer, they might nothave had postpartum, you know
depression and been in therapy,but they can maybe take away,
you know, asking for help,learning how to potentially,
eventually, potentially andeventually balance it all.
You know it's, it's, we're notmeant to do it all on our own
and I think you tell you, sayingthat it takes a village is very
(43:02):
applicable to not only raisingkids but also for our own selves
, because just because we growup and we become adults doesn't
mean that we still don't needthat village.
I know, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Very, very nicely said.
Well, Mina, thank you again forcoming on.
Thank you and listeners.
Thank you for hanging out withus and we will see you on the
next one.
Take care.
Bye.
Hello everybody, this is Steel Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I'm super excited to introduceyou to our guest today, not just
because she's fantastic, butbecause we've tried to record
together at least three or fourtimes and it did not happen.
So today's the day.
I'm super excited about it.
So I want to have all of yougive a warm welcome to Mina
(00:22):
Brower.
She is a Mexican-Americancitizen who aims to inspire
other immigrants to chase theirdreams.
She's a wife, a mom and a lawyerand is proud to live a lifelong
dream of also adding author toher many lists of titles.
And if you were to ask Mina howshe balances it all, she would
give you a diplomatic, legaleseanswer of that depends, which I
think many of us would feelquite deeply.
(00:44):
Every time I read that line I'mlike, yeah, that's yeah, it
depends on the day.
You asked me, the time of day.
So, mina, welcome to the show.
I'm super excited that we'rehere.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I know I was like it's meant to be.
We're doing it today.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I pulled out all the stops I was like it's happening.
Mina, I would love it if youintroduced yourself to the
listeners and tell them a littlebit about your story, because I
mean you have a quite a widerange here.
I mean, you're a lawyer, beyondthe wife and mom, which we
already know is like tough stuff.
You're also a lawyer and nowyou're also an author, so I'd
(01:20):
love to hear your story.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah Well, thank you for having me on, I appreciate
it.
I'd love to hear your story.
Yeah Well, thank you for havingme on, I appreciate it.
But yeah, so my story, my lore.
That's like the new Instagramgoing around they're talking
about everyone's lore.
So my story began pretty muchwhen we immigrated here.
I immigrated here to the UnitedStates with my parents, united
(01:49):
States with my parents, and weimmigrated and my parents were
so focused on the American dreamand what that typically is
looks like for immigrants.
So typically, you'll see, youknow, if a family immigrates
together, the parents alwayswant their children to be
doctors or lawyers, that verylike high education,
postgraduate sort of lifestyle,and I understand that from my
perspective of trying to, youknow, gain some stability and
trying to make sure that thechild is prosperous in the
(02:11):
future.
So education is very heavy.
It's a very heavy topic for alot of immigrant families and
that was my case.
So we immigrated here and myparents were very, very tough
when it came to, you know, toschool and education and all of
that.
And we were all learningEnglish together at the same
time and I think because forkids if there's any immigrants
(02:34):
listening out there who learnedEnglish as a second language.
When you're a child, when youlearn English, you pick it up
fairly quickly, and for adultsit's a little bit difficult,
just because the kids' brainsare like sponges, right.
So my parents would say thingslike can you help me translate
this, or can you help metranslate this, or let's go to
the grocery store and I need youto, like, help me order this.
(02:54):
So that was, that was myexperience, which is not unique,
it's very common, but I think,because of the advocacy that I
did in a very young age, um, andthe reading that I had to do,
like high end, like reading,like leases and things like that
, I was sort of put on a sort ofautomatic path of advocacy.
(03:16):
So my parents were like, well,you know, you can be a doctor or
a lawyer, so let's, let's pick.
I was like, okay, what aboutwriter?
Because I love writing, becauseyou guys have me writing, you
have me reading all of thesepick.
And I was like, okay, whatabout writer?
Because I love writing, becauseyou guys have me writing, you
have me reading all of thesethings, and I'm doing all of
these things, and and they'relike no, definitely not writer.
And I said, okay, well, let, letme, let me, let me, let me do
(03:36):
lawyer Right.
And I think it's.
I think, if you don't have theimmigrant experience like that,
to ask a child to make adecision like that very early on
is sounds very, almost too muchright like at the top, um, but
again, I understand it from awanting to fulfill the American
dream perspective, um.
So anyways, we, um, we set on apath of like this higher
(03:59):
education sort of goal and inthe middle of that I developed a
love of writing fiction, and itwas something where it became
my passion, my hobby, and wewould have family parties I mean
, we're Hispanic, so big familyparties like music and
everything.
I would be upstairs in my roomin the family desktop which was
conveniently in my room, typingand writing and short stories
(04:23):
and everything.
And eventually my claim to fame,according to me, is that I won
my school's young authorcompetition, which is like a big
deal because it's like you, mybook, my book, went to like
regionals or something like that, or just state, and I thought I
made it.
I came home with a littletrophy and I told my parents I'm
like look like there's a futurein this and they're like no,
(04:44):
you're in eighth grade, likerelax, relax.
So then you know I, you knowthe years pass by and it wasn't
until I became a mom and wasdealing with.
I did eventually go to lawschool, thank goodness for my
parents, and it's something thatI do enjoy.
But it wasn't until mypostpartum journey, after
(05:04):
becoming a mom, that I reallygave writing a chance, because
at the time, shortly after Igave birth, I was in therapy for
postpartum emotions andfeelings and all of that and my
therapist said have you everconsidered writing out your
feelings and your emotions,because you have a lot of
warring feelings of sadness,happiness, all of that.
And I said, well, I love writing.
(05:26):
I never thought of, you know,looking at it like this.
So a lot of things cametogether and I was able to sort
of start writing and revisitthat passion of mine.
And yeah, and then just, I meanjust for for everyone's you
know purposes that are listening, and even to you, jenny, I know
(05:47):
that you're so passionate aboutwomen balancing everything that
is going on in their lives.
I think it's so important thatwe talk about it.
For me, specifically, when Istarted writing this book, I was
struggling with a lot of reallysad emotions because I had
suffered from infertility forsuch a long time.
A lot of really sad emotionsbecause I had suffered from
infertility for such a long time.
(06:08):
So for me it was like I'mtrying to be a lawyer, I'm
trying to be a new mom, I'mbalancing all of these feelings
and emotions that are I shouldbe really happy that I'm a new
mom, but I'm, like, extremelysad because I've suffered so
much loss.
So, yeah, it's just, it's a lotof things came together and
then the book startedmaterializing and then, you know
, one thing led to another andthen I eventually published a
year after.
But yeah, that's sort of that'show it happened.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So you, you touched on a lot of things that I want
to.
I want to talk about a lot sowell.
First and foremost, my, my, um,my, I am my husband's
Ecuadorian, so I'm verywell-versed with the big family
parties.
I have to tell you, as you weretalking about, that, I was
picturing the very first yearthat we moved into our house.
Um, we decided it would be agreat idea to um host
(06:55):
Thanksgiving three weeks afterwe moved in, and by we, I don't
mean me, um, but the idea.
The idea was he was so, he wasso excited, he was so excited,
and we didn't have any furniture.
I had to order folding tablesfrom Amazon, like there was
nothing here.
But, that's the typical.
(07:16):
Hispanic party folding tablesand chairs.
So I love that part of yourstory because it does provide a
little bit of a glimpse of whatit is when you do immigrate here
and what you're looking for.
You know you're looking andwhat your parents are looking
for, because I've heard similarfrom my in-laws that they they
(07:38):
really just they wanted theirkids to get an education, they
wanted them to be successful, tohave something better than what
they had and thankfully, forthe most part, they all did.
But that's really what it is,like everyone's.
You're coming here because youwant something a little bit
better and here's the placewhere this can really happen,
like you can make it happen.
So I really resonated with thatpart of your story because of
(08:00):
my husband and just knowing whathe went through and he
immigrated here when he was alittle little kid, so so you
know, but he had the sameexperience as you were, like he
always helped his parents out.
He still does it.
His parents didn't really everlearn English, so it was just,
if anything.
I actually learned Spanish whenwe, when we were dating, cause I
was like I'm going to need totalk to my mother-in-law at some
point, um, so that makes Ithink that I really liked that
(08:27):
part of your story, the partthat I also want to touch on,
because you this is where thisis the pivotal moment you
becoming a writer because I mean, being a lawyer is in itself is
like that's huge, and any womanafter having a child, like
you're, I used to say when I waspregnant with my son, sounds so
(08:49):
stupid now, but when, when Iwas pregnant with my son, I used
to tell people that I workedwith oh yeah, I can't wait to
have him Because then regularJenny will be back not pregnant
Jenny and I kept saying regularJenny is going to be here, like
regular Jenny will be able to doyou know the workload that I
used to do and I always referredto be here, like regular Jenny
will be able to do the workloadthat I used to do, and I always
referred to regular Jenny.
And then my son was born and Ihad the shock of, oh that Jenny
(09:11):
isn't here anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Priority shift.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, there wasn't a regular Jenny anymore, it was
mom Jenny, and nobody reallytalks about that part.
That's like there is a veryhuge thing that happens there.
Now, after you have a baby, youknow, I don't know if you've
heard this before, but after youhave a baby there's an actual
physical change that happens inwomen's brains.
(09:35):
That is chemical and it will.
It'll show like our brains willshift and change because now
we've had a child and so we're.
It's basically like a, it's anold thing, that's just like kind
of part of our biology and thatmental shift happens that we
can care for our children.
That's also the reason why momsand dads will have a lot of
(09:56):
conflict after a child is born,because that has not happened to
the man and it's not his fault.
He's going to continue, it'snot biological for him, so he's
going to continue on living hislife.
And you're changed deeply andthen you're like what's wrong
with you?
Why aren't you changed deeply?
Like it's just?
But there's the actual physicalreason.
(10:17):
I like to highlight that becausea lot of people have a lot of
marriage problems andself-included.
I'm not, I'm not exempt fromthat.
Yeah Right, I think the worst Iwas just telling someone today.
The worst part, the worst timesin our marriage was the first
few years when we were havingkids, because it was so
straining on and draining on us.
(10:38):
I was incredibly sleep deprived.
I had postpartum depressionafter my pregnancies.
I still tried to work.
It really does snowball.
So I, like I want you to talk alittle bit more about how did
you, when you started writingpostpartum, did you go right
(11:01):
into creative?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
mode or did you start journaling and going from there
?
Yeah, so I also, also, you know, I also absolutely experienced,
like the, the marital sort ofin crisis situation we can talk
about that as well.
But, um, yeah, so, uh, rightbefore I got pregnant, I was
sort of journeying, likejournaling a little bit, because
I never gave up on my dream oflike writing but I never took it
(11:23):
seriously.
So I was creating this universe, world series and it never
really went anywhere.
But the shift for me happenedand during that moment in time
where my therapist said, okay,well, you need to figure out how
(11:43):
to get you these, how to getthese emotions out.
So I talked with my husband andI said, you know, this is
something that I need to dobecause I'm already, you know, I
was.
I was put into therapy while Iwas pregnant because I was a
very high risk of beingpostpartum depression.
Postpartum depression my, my,my, my gyno obstetrician team
(12:04):
were like amazing.
They were like all right,you're high risk because, like,
your job is very like stressful,like I mean I were.
I was working when I was inlabor, I was sending work emails
, right.
That sounds about right, yeah,so so my, my, my, yeah, my
doctor were like okay, we'regoing to put you in therapy,
like, and you're going tocontinue in therapy.
So, um, and I just graduatedfrom therapy, like um, probably
(12:24):
less three months ago, butanyways.
So I said to my husband I needto do this, I need to um, be
able to, you know, do thisexercise with my therapist.
And my husband said which, itdoesn't, there's very I don't
want to villainize all men, butit's not really typical because
he said to me okay, it's nottypical.
Okay, so it ended up workingout that from 9 pm to 12, every
(12:49):
single day I had me time, whichis not normal.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Not normal.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Not normal, because I started writing my book when I
was five months postpartum.
So it was incredible for my tosee my husband step up um in the
in the in the parent department, and then the, the uh, the
partner department, and to say,okay, I got the house, I'll be
downstairs washing dishes, I'llbe downstairs sanitizing the
(13:17):
bottles, Um, and, and we'll makeit work.
It worked out for me because Iwas.
I was in breastfeeding at thattime because my milk just like
stopped.
Yeah, so I was.
We were feeding formula, sothat helped a lot and when you
feed formula, typically babiesfall asleep quicker and longer,
because that's what I did.
Right, right.
So I don't want to make it seemlike it's like this fairy tale,
(13:38):
like there was.
You know, there was a lot ofthings involved that made it
possible so I could write, butmy husband, um, you know, he
would bring me up like mocktails, like because I don't really
drink.
So he would like he would buy,like the fake alcohol that he
would bring me up like margaritajalapeno mocktails and he had
the cure.
um, he, he was just soaccommodating and I think he saw
how much I was strugglingmentally that he was like if
(14:00):
you're, if you're not're notokay, you can't be a good mom,
and I know that you're going tofeel like shit if you're not a
good mom.
So, let's get you to a placewhere you are able to function
and and, yeah so.
So that's sort of what made itpossible for me to um, to get to
that moment.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You know, I want to touch on um the support of your
husband there, because andbecause I always do want to say
it like I like to say I'm like Idon't want to villainize men
either Like obviously I'mmarried, they have their place.
I mean, come on, like what Ididn't do and I'm I'm in the
middle of writing somethingthat's supposed to be released
(14:39):
later this year as part of abook, and in part of it, I'm
telling my story a little bitabout how I never asked for help
.
Yes, I very deeply.
I was raised in a house whereit was like, if you're a martyr,
that's the best thing for you.
Turn the other cheek, sacrifice, self-sacrifice, just do it.
(15:00):
And I remember like thismessaging coming along
consistently and in my head as agrowing up.
I remember being like no, likethat's crazy, I'm not doing all
this.
And I remember seeing like mymom was not happy at the end,
like she was resentment andbitter.
And I remember being like I'mnot going to be like that, but
the learned behavior was alreadythere, and so I had my son in
(15:23):
2016, and then I had twins in2017.
And, out of sheer determinationto prove people wrong, I was
like I will carry all of this.
I will still travel for work, Iwill still push my career
forward and I can be a great mom.
And I can be a great mom.
And that thought is insanebecause it truly takes a village
(15:46):
.
And had I actually acceptedhelp, I, I refuse, I refused
help.
Like my parents would come over, my aunt would come over.
My husband had two older kids,like he's been, he's been down
the road before.
He already knew what to do.
But I was determined to be likeno, these are my children, I'm
caring for them, like that's it.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So, even when I was pregnant, I refused.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Even when the help was there, I was like no, it's
fine, they're like Jenny, justgo go lay down, like go rest.
And I and I refused it and Igot to a certain point where it
blew up in my face basicallybecause I just kept saying no
and I should have asked for helpand it just I couldn't at the
time.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I still have a little trouble with it, but not as
much as I used to like, I don'tgo away ever, because it's
that's our, you know immediatethat's our immediate well.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
so my point with that whole long like rant, because I
think I've been thinking abouthim like my god, jenny, yeah,
you know, hopefully I can teachmy daughters better.
But my whole point there isthere's a lot of instances where
we're not clear with ourhusbands about what we need.
They're not mind readers Right.
Like communication is such ahuge deal.
So, like my husband and I are,I work in communications in
(16:54):
general and he just likes totalk.
So but he, he, you know, whenhe came into this marriage and
he, I learned so much from himbecause he did come in and
anytime there was something thatwould happen that like seemed
like there was a tone ofresentment or seemed like it
wasn't quite done yet he wasvery much that we're not going
to sleep until until we talk itout until we're cool.
And I was always like, oh please, can we please, you know.
(17:16):
But he was like no, like we'rewe're addressing this, like
we're not going to fail here,like're going to make this
happen.
And you know, I think thatthat's part of the issue with
women across the board is, ifyou don't ask for help and
you're not very clear to yourhusband, like I'm falling apart,
it's okay to say it, I'mfalling apart.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I'm not myself.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I'm out of my head.
I'm out of my head Especiallylike after work, like something
so simple, like them coming homefrom work and you've been with
the kids for hours, right?
Um, because I, I work from home.
So like I know, I, I have, Ihave help, right, so like I I'm
not by myself with her, like Ihave help here inside of my
house but, then my husbandeventually comes home and like I
(17:54):
mean I'm home, so like I, I I'mstill sort of interacting with
my child.
And then my husband comes homeand I'm like, okay, well, like I
, I'm touched out, yes, I don'twant to talk to anybody, I'm
going to go into our bedroom andI'm going to lay down and I'm
going to be on Instagram for thenext hour.
Do not talk to me, bother me,and I'm not available, and you
figure it out.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Figure it out.
I say that the way that I sayit to my kid.
I'm like mommy just needs to bea potato for a minute.
Yeah, please, just I can't talkto you, I can't.
And I I was.
I was texting one of my momfriends and I was like it's like
a wild overload because it'llbe like TV here.
And then all three of my kidsare so close in age and it
(18:36):
happened earlier when I wasgetting them ready for bed.
I was sitting in the girl'sroom and my son is sitting next
to me, my daughter's in thechair, my other daughter's over
here, and Vincent starts to talkto me and then he was like 75%
of the way done with his thought.
But then the other one startedtalking and she was about 50%
done, and then the third one,and so they were literally all
talking at the same time and Iwas like okay, wait.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And I was like trying to yeah, we're the nurturer,
and it's like people can't seeme, but I'm quoting.
We're supposed to take it allin.
That's, you know, that's theimage of women and of moms.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
And we can't do it all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
The mental drain is very real.
I'm actually very impressedthat you do have that buffer
time at the end of your day, bythe way, because that's actually
been something I alwaysstruggle with.
So, like you're seeing me whereI record right now.
Like where I record right now,this is like an office space.
It used to be a dining roomarea, but we converged it to an
office space for me, and rightthere in that black hole behind
(19:37):
me, that's the living room.
So when I'm working here,they're usually all right there,
and then it doesn't even reallymatter if I move something,
because we have an officeupstairs too.
So sometimes I'll go up thereif I really need to be by myself
.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
The noise follows you .
Speaker 1 (19:55):
They will come upstairs Even if the door is
locked.
They will start playing rightoutside the door.
That's everywhere I go and I Ihave to laugh about it a little
bit, because it's always likelittle ducklings, like they will
follow me and they will notleave me right?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
no, it's like to go to the bathroom.
It's like an open door policy.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It's like oh my god, can I please like I can't even I
can't even get a minute inthere, because it's always as
soon as I, as soon as I go inthere, I hear like mommy, are
you so the?
So the key takeaway here is thestruggle is very real for all
of us.
Yes, and when you work fromhome, mina, I actually really
(20:34):
love that you step away.
I I'm.
I've been really wanting to dosomething like that, to do it
Like I need to take 15 minutes,because even like today, I had
to.
I worked until five, from fiveto six, I like whipped together
dinner.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I had another call at six and they had to put your
kids to bed because then I hadto get them showered and do all
that.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So it was like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And it's honestly I think it's and I think it's
beneficial for our partners aswell.
Um, I might come fromeventually my parents divorced.
So I come from from that verybackground of seeing adults not
communicate effectively andseeing how a marriage can
deteriorate.
So for me, it's even morebeneficial for me to take after
(21:18):
my daughter is in bed and she'ssleeping, for me to just if I'm
not, even if I'm not writing, tojust take an hour by myself and
then to just afterwardsinteract with my husband,
because then it's not fair tohim.
either you know what I mean.
Or even if people sometimesdon't have an hour, right, 15
minutes, like you said, or 30minutes, honestly to, to allow
yourself, to nurture yourself,but then also be ready to have
(21:43):
have a meaningful time with yourpartner.
Yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
If you're not filling your own cup Right.
Exactly what you said in thebeginning when you talked about
how your husband supported youduring your postpartum
depression period.
If you can't correct what'sgoing on in yourself, if you
can't fill your own cup, you areno good to your children.
You just aren't.
And, like I had my big shiftaway from being in the burnout
(22:08):
model consistently and reallynot paying attention to my own
cup literally happened likethree years ago when we moved
into this house and I had like acatalyst moment of I was
working these wild hours and mykids grew up outside with my
husband and I had to watch fromthe window.
Because I was working thesewild hours and my kids grew up
outside with my husband and Ihad to watch from the window.
Because I was working thesecrazy hours Like I didn't teach
them to swim or dive off thediving board or do any of those
(22:30):
cool things.
That was all.
My husband and I watched it allfrom upstairs the whole time,
like eating away at me, like wow, like I wanted so badly to have
children and now, instead ofbeing with my kids, I'm like up
here working.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I'm like this doesn't match up the, the, the, the,
the working model is notdesigned for mothers.
And you can have as muchparental leave, whatever you
want to call it, you can have anincredible HR department or
whatever, but the, the corporate, the world and and professions
aren't designed for moms.
And it's very sad, um, becauseyou know, we want to continue
(23:07):
working, yeah, we want tocontinue, like it cost me a lot,
like emotionally and andphysically and all these things
become a lawyer I mean, it's agood and or or any profession,
right, um, and then to to see itall sort of um shift
drastically and have like anidentity crisis almost of like,
what am I doing?
Is this even worth my time?
(23:28):
Because, like you said, mychild is outside playing, you
know, and I'm in here, literallyalso also me, watching it from
the window yeah so it's, it's avery coming to god moment of
what do I do?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, Well, so I will say this In that moment that's
actually when the podcast wasborn.
That was when the podcast wasborn.
So it's very interesting to mebecause every single woman that
comes onto this podcast andshares their story there was a
catalyst moment of cancer insome instances, a death in their
(24:03):
family, an assault, like therewas something that happened that
the woman has decided I am notliving my life like this anymore
.
So I had that catalyst momentbecause I came up from this
project that was like threeweeks long.
I hadn't seen my kids, eventhough I live in this house, and
they were all bigger and I wastotally crushed.
So I had this.
(24:24):
You know what you've talkedabout podcasting.
That seems like somethingthat's really big.
Why don't you just do it, justgo for it?
And in pulling that trigger, italigned me with a whole bunch
of people that have pushed mylife into a whole different
pathway that I would have neverbeen able to do, and I now have
more balance now than I ever hadbefore in my life, into a whole
different pathway that I wouldhave never been able to do.
And I now have more balance nowthan I ever had before in my
(24:46):
life.
Right and I have autonomy in mywork, in my daytime job, to be
able to step away Right, whichis huge, like my kids came home
from school at three, 55 and Imade everybody their snacks and
had made sure they had healthyfood, and I was able to actually
do that without feeling like Ihad this pit of like oh my God,
(25:08):
work, oh my God, I got to get tomy emails.
It's not like that, and it'sonly because I've been able to
do this now, and I'll also saythis before we move on.
So I want to talk about yourbook release.
Another thing that I starteddoing is I get up super early.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I need to start doing that.
I get up super early so I tryfor five, but that doesn't
really happen because I like tosleep.
So usually at like 5.45, 6o'clock is when I start to
really get up, and then I havefrom 6 am to 7 am or 6.45 to
just write.
I do journaling.
(25:43):
I started journaling this year.
So every, every morning Ijournal and then I'll do
meditation, affirmation,visualization.
Sometimes I do yoga, like itdepends on like how much time I
have, but that moment in themorning feeds me for the entire
day.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yes, cause you, you find you, center yourself.
It it's uh, you're feeding yoursoul you're feeding your
spirituality.
Um, you know you're not praying, but it's.
It's a form of spiritualityyeah to be at peace with your
soul.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So yeah, yeah, it's, it's huge and I know like not
everyone's morning people, somepeople would rather do that at
night.
I'm not a night person because,as you said, like I want to
spend the evening with myhusband, like he worked all day.
I worked all day.
Like let's hang out.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
When is a Netflix episode gonna get watched, right
?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
and it's funny because that's what we do, like
we pick a series and we're likeoh yeah, um.
So you went through postpartum,your husband was very he
supported.
You was eight, you were able tomake it through and in that you
found your voice again.
In writing yes and how did that?
How did the writing to the bookcome to me like, how did you
(26:51):
get there?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
so, um, I started.
Okay, how do I explain this?
Uh, so I basically one of thecharacters and a lot of writers
will will say that this happenedto them as well.
My one of my characters came tome in a dream and, um he, he
basically visited me and, andthe scene where he, where he
visited me, I put it in my bookand it's like almost verbatim,
(27:15):
and I mean I felt like he waslike maybe like an angel or or
just some something from mysubconscious saying like, hey, I
, I'm here.
Oh, there's a story, there's astory worth telling here of a
woman finding her voice aftersuffering.
And, um, I sort of let thatguide me into this fantastical
world where, um, yeah, people,the male main character is
(27:41):
dealing with grief of havinglost his future wife and people
around him dying, and he'scarrying this survivor's guilt
and the woman had been carryinghis child.
So it's just, it was a way forme to connect and create a
character that was like dealingwith grief at the same time that
I was dealing with grief withmy pregnancy losses.
(28:01):
So he is the god of moonlightand stardust.
So he is.
He is the.
The title is the book of thefirst book.
The title of the first book isnamed after him.
Um, so he really taught me alot about processing my own,
like again, emotions about griefand all that.
And then I created, um, this,this bad-ass woman who was so
(28:22):
strong and fierce that the dreamvisitor that came to me was,
like hey, there's a story hereabout, like, a woman finding her
voice and I created her and sheyou know, it's a fantasy book,
so there's magic and there'ssupernatural, because that's so
cool to me and she hassupernatural powers and, and she
has supernatural powers and sheis a daughter of a villainous
(28:43):
God in a dystopian, postapocalyptic world, and in this
post apocalyptic world, magic isforbidden.
Her question whether she shouldembrace the legacy of magic
within her and use it, um, ortry to be as normal and as
(29:05):
invisible as possible and, like,try to fit into this society.
And then the god of moonlandand stardust helps her sort of
claim and and understand heridentity.
So that's sort of you know, um,I gotta ask if it's
autobiographical.
Certainly not, but there areelements there that I can see
(29:26):
Elements of survival.
You know of a woman making itdespite all odds, despite, you
know, very extreme hardshipslike domestic violence, and you
know PTSD and anxiety, and she'sa fighter and I think women and
she's also a PhD student.
So she's like an older femalebook character she's not 18.
(29:49):
So she has this life experiencethat she's gone through and I
feel like I wrote her in mindwith all of the incredible women
that are, you know, in theirmid thirties up, you know, who
have all this life experienceand these loves and these losses
and and are just dying to finda voice after you know these, um
(30:09):
, potential very sad events.
So, and then, having asupportive partner as well.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
You know, I, I like that you chose that age range
quite a bit, Cause you're right,Like most of the books are like
, oh, she was like 22 and likewhatever.
You know, I, I recently said tosomebody well, first of all,
it's a little bit funny Causeyou know, like when you are 18
or whatever that age, you thinkabout your forties and you're
like, oh God, that's like it'slike really old.
It's also it's like really old.
(30:36):
Now I'm there and I'm like,wait, hold up.
I'm almost there too and I'mlike, no, it's young, it's young
, it's young.
Well, so I, I was talking to myhusband about this the other day
, Cause I had, I, when did Ihave my kids?
I think I was like 31 and 32when I had them.
I only really had just startedscraping the surface of who
Jenny is in my thirties, andthen my whole thirties felt like
(31:00):
I was digging myself out oftoxic behaviors, bad habits,
Like I mean I just explained indetail, like how I never asked
for help, Like, like, please,you know, give me a break here.
I didn't really have my, Ididn't have my catalyst moment
that pushed me to where I am nowuntil I was like 38.
You know, like I was, I wasolder and I feel like you know,
(31:22):
there was this whole like ageistculture.
That's like oh, you're gettingolder?
Yeah, oh God, it's like.
Oh, women, women, getting olderis like, you know, you're a hag
, you're a um, what is it?
Not a crow?
Um, a crone.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Did you know?
Like there was um, oh, spinster.
This is something I talkedabout recently actually.
(31:43):
Okay, hold on On the shelf,first of all.
First of all, the first.
I remember being told that, solike when I was in like my early
twenties and I was single, andeveryone's like, oh, you need to
get married and you do this,you don't want it, you don't
want to be a spinster.
And I was like, do I not wantto?
Okay, well, listen to thisthough Historically, spinster
the term spinster was originallycoined to describe a female who
(32:08):
was unmarried but she had herown business.
Like she is a spinster, meaninglike she spun, like, I think,
wool or thread or whatever itwas.
So she was called a spinsterbecause that was her job.
That was something that she did, and somehow that got like
misconstrued into like, oh,you're a spinster, like that's
bad.
This was the first.
Like women, woman entrepreneur.
(32:29):
What are we talking about?
This is the okay, yeah, I'dlike to be a spinster right now.
Like that'd be awesome if Icould like, like you, know
everything, everything that hasto do with women.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Seems getting older seems to have this like terrible
connotation that you have tohave your stuff figured out and
she doesn't.
And it's interesting because somy character she has like
everything like academicallygoing for her she's in, she's
doing her phd and everything andthe classics, um, but in terms
of her personal life she has it,she does not have it figured
(32:58):
out.
Yeah, and that's so refreshingto me I mean, thank goodness
it's real.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
That's real Like who has it figured out?
Again, I just started and Iturned 41 this year and now I'm
like I said to my cousin, I'mlike I feel like my 40s are
going to be really like amazing.
Because now I'm like and you'rearrived.
Yes, I'm like you know, I saidthat I'm like I feel like I'm
here, like I'm awake and I I'mlike owning this and I'm present
(33:24):
and I'm not like wishing thetime away, like I actively make
it a point.
What was it?
What's today, tuesday?
Yeah, yesterday everybody hadoff, you know, and my kids had
off, and I had actually plannedon it being like a podcasting
work day and I was like, ooh,like I was all excited to do it,
and it just kind of snowballedbecause I was alone with my kids
(33:45):
and I sat down to do some workand to work on this write this
book chapter that I'm writingfor this book for later this
year.
And I um, I started, I got acouple of sentences in and they
were just kind of bickering, youknow, like kids, like they're
just bickering with each other.
And I kind of just stopped andI was like, what are you doing?
They're home, yeah, just hangout with them.
(34:06):
Like, yeah, just whatever, likeyou're not going to get your
stuff done, just just be coolwith it and move on with your
life.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
You're only so little for such a little time.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yes, yeah, exactly.
So I love that your characteris in a point in her life where
she's still trying to figurethings out, she's still trying
to find her own voice, she'strying to heal from past trauma,
which I mean that's in itselfalso I want to talk about,
because, you know, in our agerange you're younger than me but
still, like in this grouping,our parents' generation mental
(34:37):
health was not like a thing.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It wasn't especially, I mean especially for Hispanics
.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Definitely not for Hispanics.
No, not even.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And your husband, or maybe you still see it in like
his family.
It's just, it's not.
It's not real.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
No.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
And I remember a family member asking for help
and I was a child but I was likeI was there for that
conversation and an adult in mylife said I need help, like I
need help, like I need apsychologist.
And another adult in my lifelooked at this person and said
are you, are you crazy?
Do you want to go to like aninsane asylum?
(35:11):
It was such an extreme responseto someone saying like, hey, I
need help.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
But yeah, mental health is just not it wasn't a
thing, and so it makes sense tome that our generation I guess
I'm an older millennial is whatI've been told.
I am the older millennialgeneration.
We're on the cusp of like oh,we can really make big shifts
for society.
(35:37):
Yes, we get the knowledge ofour parents and what they did
that didn't really work, and nowwe can really come here and
like show and we have the tools.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Therapy is much more accessible now.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Oh, I did telehealth.
Yeah, you know I was doingtelehealth.
I didn't even have to leave myhouse.
And I know some people even dolike um, like texting therapists
.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Oh, I would do that, a hundred percent yeah.
Oh, it's's like it's soaccessible any which way that
you want it and I also, I alsothink like the, the branding up,
like I mean, people aren't aslike scared to say like oh, I'm
in therapy.
No, you know, it's not like it,you don't have the same thing
yeah it's applauded.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
It's seen as a very positive thing yeah, I think
that 30 years ago that was notthe case.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I and honestly like it.
It does say a lot about thestate of like people that are
older than us now, because Iremember I had tried to.
I have two brothers, I'm inbetween them, I have an older
and a younger and I had tried toexplain to my mom the one time
something that she did that Iwas like mom, look, I'm an adult
now, so it doesn't bother me asmuch, but I want you to know
(36:43):
that when you do this action,you're telling me I'm not as
important as my brothers.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
right, and she was like well, I'm a terrible mother
, no, she just Mina.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
She all she did was she rolled her eyes and did this
deep sigh of oh, give me abreak.
I was like, all right, forgetit, nevermind.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Or you get the classic.
Oh, I'm a terrible mom.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I'm so terrible.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I gave you guys so much trauma and it's like, no,
that's not what I was trying totell you.
No, we're not doing this sothat you can turn it around and
then make me feel bad for likeno-transcript of this villainous
(37:50):
god and it's just like theirstories of how they deal with um
.
Having this legacy of magic ofthis very like terrible this is
very cool domestic abuser,basically, and and how they find
their voice and their and theirpower.
Because, um, you know it's,it's very much the story of I
don't want to be like my parents, yeah, and what happens if you
(38:11):
have their magical powers.
So it's that question of likeokay, well, you know what it's
like, even for you and for me,how we were just talking about
like we're learning theselessons from our, you know, very
like baby boomer parents orlike older parents and I don't
want to be like that.
But what happens if you havemagical powers?
So that's the question, and howyou know, how do you navigate
(38:34):
that?
Speaker 1 (38:34):
So you know what the through line is there I was
thinking about while you'retalking, because in the story
it's like well, what if you havetheir?
If you have their, you knowmagical powers.
Like so, you are kind of likethem, yes, but that also that
applies, though, to what we weretalking about like you're going
to have parts of your parents.
There's, like I said, there'slearned behavior that you can't
avoid yeah how can you make itwork for you, which is, I'm
(38:55):
having a sense that that's whatthese women do how can you use
it for good and not evil?
Speaker 2 (38:59):
because he like's a fantasy, so he's like a
villainous God, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
This is fantastic.
I'm very excited.
I'm very excited and I alsolove these types of books
because I have to be honest withyou.
I'm so serious all the time.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yes, I need that.
Like there's just a mentalescape.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Just a mental escape, that's just a release and it's
like this is fun and like I'vebeen watching a bunch of like
new, like Netflix series becauseof it.
I'm like I just need somethingthat's not educational and I
used to be teaching myself allthe time.
I'm excited about it.
So, listeners, what I'm goingto do is because, um, her book
is not being released until June30th, but the airing of your
episode is actually going to bein April and the listeners are
(39:41):
listening right now in April.
So it'll be fine, but whatwe'll do is we're going to link
your website and your socials inthe description of the episode.
So, listeners, you can follow.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
And they can pre-order the book.
They'll be able to pre-order.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
There you go, perfect Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
They'll be able to pre-order it, and the ebook at
least, and then I feel that byApril potentially maybe they'll
be able to pre-order thepaperback.
So I'll give you all theinformation.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Okay, cool.
So then Mina and I will connectbefore the episode airs.
We'll get all the appropriatelinks in there and then, even
when it airs, let's do a littlesplash.
We wanna make sure thelisteners know, because that's
super exciting.
Yeah, mina, thank you so muchfor coming on, and I'm so glad
we actually got to record today.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Oh, thank you, and I and I and I really appreciate
that you created this space forwomen to talk about these issues
, because I've listened to yourother episodes and it's
refreshing to find honesty,because I feel like social media
portrays this image thateveryone has their shit together
(40:48):
and we don't.
And I think we need space likeraw, real spaces like this,
where women can say like hey, solife sucks.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah, I'm a mess.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
And I'm trying to do the best, yeah, and this is
what's working, what's notworking, and yeah, so I really
appreciate the value that youbring to a space that needs this
conversation.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
That you made my whole day, because I'm in season
three now, so I'm like threeseasons, like it's been a lot
and people resonate yeah, yeah,you know it's.
It's been a really honestly areally beautiful journey and the
part that, like you said,people are resonating with the
episodes and I mean I wastelling somebody recently they
(41:36):
were asking me like, well, whatdo you do on social media, like
what do you do this like?
And you know it's basicallylike, what are you doing?
That's like bro marketing, likethat kind of thing, and I don't
do bro marketing, like I reallyjust will release stuff when I
can, and but the listenership itwent international on its own
and the reach extended quitesignificantly on its own.
And the listenership it waslike up by 400% in season three
(42:02):
on its own, like truly just onits own.
People are finding their way andmuch like what we said earlier
with you read a book when it'sappropriate for the time for you
to read it.
I feel like that with thispodcast, people are finding it
when they need to hear thismessage and each episode has its
own message and it's not thesame content over and over again
and it's new things and newvoices and even if it's the same
(42:24):
subject, it's still a new voiceand a different perspective.
And you really took the premiseand summarized it quite nicely,
because this is meant to be anon-judgmental space where we
can just have an organicconversation and the listeners
can know that they're not aloneyeah, I mean like if someone
listening they might not be alawyer, they're not alone.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, I mean like someone listening they might not
be a lawyer, they might nothave had postpartum, you know
depression and been in therapy,but they can maybe take away,
you know, asking for help,learning how to potentially,
eventually, potentially andeventually balance it all.
You know it's, it's, we're notmeant to do it all on our own
and I think you tell you, sayingthat it takes a village is very
(43:02):
applicable to not only raisingkids but also for our own selves
, because just because we growup and we become adults doesn't
mean that we still don't needthat village.
I know, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Very, very nicely said.
Well, Mina, thank you again forcoming on.
Thank you and listeners.
Thank you for hanging out withus and we will see you on the
next one.
Take care.
Bye.
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