August 16, 2025 • 39 mins
What happens when grief stops you in your tracks? For Diandra Ford Wing, the answer was to completely step away from her career and create space for healing through writing. After losing both her aunt and mother within 14 months, Diandra found herself unable to continue with business as usual. Instead of forcing herself to push through, she made the brave decision to quit her job and focus on processing her overwhelming grief.
The result of this courageous pause was her memoir "Red Bird," which chronicles not only her journey through loss but also explores her experiences with body image issues, mental health struggles, and her time in a mental health facility after a suicide attempt. Through raw, honest storytelling, Diandra transforms her pain into purpose, offering readers a glimpse into how facing our darkest moments can ultimately lead to healing.
Perhaps most powerful is Diandra's central message: give yourself grace. Throughout her life, she battled feelings of inadequacy and unworthiness, only finding peace when she learned to be gentler with herself. "If I hadn't given myself grace at some stage of my life, I would not be where I am today," she reflects. This reminder feels especially poignant in a world that often expects us to process grief quickly and return to productivity.
Whether you're currently navigating grief, supporting someone who is, or simply want to be better prepared for life's inevitable challenges, this episode offers valuable perspective on honoring your needs during difficult seasons. Listen now and discover why sometimes the most healing choice is to pause, breathe, and give yourself permission to process loss in your own way.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning everybody.
This is Still Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I am super excited this morningto introduce all of you to
D'Andra.
D'andra Ford-Wing is apassionate storyteller and
dynamic sales director whodiscovered the healing power of
writing during a period ofprofound grief.
Growing up as an army brat,d'andra's formative years were
(00:21):
spent in culturally diversesettings, including Germany,
which shaped her uniquenarrative style.
After the loss of her mother,deandra embarked on a
transformative journey thatinspired her debut memoir,
redbird.
Through this work, she sharesher personal reflections on love
, loss and resilience, hoping toinspire others facing life's
trials.
Deandra, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Thank you, jenny, it's so good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
And I appreciate you joining me this morning.
I had to do a bunch of espressoshots.
I was really struggling.
I was really struggling.
I'm super excited to talk withyou today.
I would love for you to, as afirst step, just share your
story with the listeners and letthem know what inspired Redbird
.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah.
So, quite simply, theinspiration behind Red Bird came
from losing both my aunt and mymom in close succession.
My aunt died while becoming anexpat to live in the Gambia, she
left the United States and theneight months later she was dead
.
And there are still so manyunknowns surrounding her death
(01:24):
and so many questions that haveleft to be unanswered.
And my mom never got over hersister's death.
So when she died, you know, 14months later, I just had to take
a pause.
I had to reset, recalibrate andjust figure out what I wanted
to do.
I quit my job.
I just wanted to focus solelyon honoring my mom, and the way
(01:47):
that I did that is throughwriting Redbird.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
You mentioned your mother.
Your mother had some.
She struggled with the loss ofher sister.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
During this trauma.
You know, I think, when, whenwe have the loss of a loved one,
especially the first time youhave a close relative, pass is
is really jarring, because whileyou expect it, you also almost
don't expect it, like you kindof just think it's not going to
happen.
My grandmother is 97 and we knowthat every day is a gift Like
(02:20):
that's just not given because atthis point this is borrowed
time.
But when somebody is muchyounger, you don't expect that
there is going to be a profoundloss.
So when you lost your aunt, howdid that that affect you?
How did that loss affect you?
And then what did you see inyour mother, Like the physical
response, even.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah.
So it affected me in a way thatI can't describe.
She was 53 and we're prettyclose in age Now.
I was like 43 at the time andI'm now 46.
So going through losing someonethat was the baby of the family
(03:01):
cause she was the youngestchild and then being so close in
age to her, I really reallytook it hard.
I took it like, oh my God, shewas just here and now.
It just shows just how fleetinglife is, and the way that it
presented in my mom was that Icould see that a light had
(03:21):
dimmed in her.
I could tell that she was just.
This had taken her out Becauseshe had lost her mom when she
was 28.
And she mourned that loss herentire life.
She never got over her mom'sdeath and then this was just a
crushing blow to lose her babysister.
It was too much.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I can only very gently imagine, as I've never
experienced anything like thisand I I almost I don't live in
fear of it, but I am now becauseI'm turning 42 this year and my
husband just turned 50.
And so we're getting to thepoint where, you know, our
parents are obviously older andthe discussions around mortality
(04:04):
have sort of started.
My mom has actually beenbringing mortality up our whole
lives and sort of trying to makeit something okay to talk about
and not brush to the sidebecause, as almost like a step
in the direction of you willeventually experience a loss,
like it is going to happen.
We don't have a choice, we haveto have that happen to us.
How did you process the loss ofyour aunt?
(04:26):
And actually one thing I dowant to ask for the listeners
can you go into more details asto what an expat is?
I want to make sure theyunderstand what happened.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah.
So my aunt had decided, youknow, months prior to her
leaving the United States, thatshe did not want to live on US
soil.
She was just like everythingthat's happened to me here in
the United States that she didnot want to live on US soil.
She was just like everythingthat's happened to me here in
the United States has not beenan optimal experience.
So I want to see what the restof the world has to offer.
(04:55):
And she then decided that shewas going to leave the United
States but then also expatriate.
She wanted to not be a UScitizen, she wanted to be a
citizen of the world, and I canappreciate that.
She booked a one-way ticket tothe Gambia and was never seen
(05:16):
again.
It was just.
It's.
The way that it happened wassuch that you would think it was
a lifetime movie, like it wasjust, it was crazy.
And then having to contact theU?
S embassy over in the Gambiawas literally an act of Congress
.
It took me days to nail downthe right number, the right
(05:38):
contact.
It was.
I had a spreadsheet that I kept.
You know a track of all thenumbers, because I was just
dialing, dialing out, trying tofigure out who I could talk to.
It was the craziest scenarioyou could have even imagined.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That sounds.
It's.
You're right, it does soundlike a lifetime movie.
It sounds like a livingnightmare, though, because you
can't get in touch with youraunt.
So obviously you know somethingis wrong, but there's no way
for you to really know what'sgoing on unless you physically
fly over there and like start,you know feet on the ground,
like where are, where is this,where's my aunt, where's my
(06:13):
relative?
Yeah, I can't even imagine, andI will admit this to.
Like you know, in our household, my husband had wanted to go,
he wanted to go away, and he was, you know, saying like oh, I'd
love to go on vacation this andthat, and I've done that.
I'm one of those wives that I'mlike oh, go, like, have fun,
like yeah, I'll book you aticket Like go go for it.
And you know, I'm like everyoneneeds a break, like everyone
(06:46):
needs a rep.
Yeah, and it's.
It's sad to really think of thefact that, like, I haven't been
touched by any of this, but thefear is there.
So much so to the point where,um, you know, we all got our
passports and I made it a pointto make sure that my husband has
a passport card that he cancarry on his physical person for
fear of.
(07:06):
I don't know what's going tohappen.
He's from Ecuador, so I'm likeI would prefer for you to have
every protection possible onyour physical person so that you
can be identified because, godforbid, I don't know.
And then the fear of honestlylike him traveling solo.
It sounds silly.
He's a grown man, he'sphysically fit, like he can
handle himself.
But there's this.
You know, you watch what'sgoing on in the world today and
you're like I don't want to sendmy loved one out there without
(07:27):
me.
I know.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And we I definitely had my reservations about her
going over there, but you can'ttell an adult what to do and she
was really, really earnest, shereally wanted to do this.
And when she got over there andwe don't know what the story is
, but she had she was about toget married to some guy that she
(07:50):
met over there.
We don't know if they weretalking prior to her getting
over to the Gambia, like theyhad had some kind of pen pal
relationship.
We don't, we don't know, butshe was going to be married to
this guy and he's the reason whywe know that she had passed
away.
He called my mom at four o'clockin the morning when random
(08:10):
Sunday and said that she wasgone.
And my mom was confused.
She was like what do you meanto the store?
Like I don't, where's thisgoing?
And he was like no, sandra,she's, she's passed away, she
died.
And he was like no, sandra,she's passed away, she died.
And that's when, the very nextday, that Monday, that's when I
started making phone calls tothe police, to anybody, just to
(08:33):
see if this was in fact true.
And it was just.
It took so much, so much workand so much time because it was
impossible to nail down thecorrect person to be speaking to
in this regard.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And it also I think it almost also leaves an open
wound there and I could see howyour mother would have trouble
healing because at least whenher mother passed there it's
here and we go through.
You know we have our processeshere.
You know you go to the funeralhome like you.
There is some levels of closurethat we get here that in this
(09:13):
scenario she's never gonna get.
She's not gonna have that likethat and it never came, and now
you're left living withquestions still, and probably
I'm going to want to put wordsin your mouth, but I would
imagine that you feel a lot ofanger too, because that's where
I would be.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
We were.
My mom was so ticked off, Likeshe was just like what in the
world is happening here, likeshe could not wrap her brain
around it, and that's why I tookit upon myself to be the one to
do the reaching out, because mymom did not have the mental
capacity to do it.
She was just, she was fit to betied, she was just over it and
(09:54):
she could not handle theemotional pressure of trying to
figure out what had happened toher sister.
So I took on that and I didn'tget a chance to grieve because I
was, you know, in go mode.
I was in go mode and it just,it really it took a toll on me.
And then, you know, monthslater, when my mom died, I
(10:15):
really had no choice but to justtake a step back and, you know,
like I said, quit my job anddedicated my life to writing
this book.
It took me almost 12 months, ayear, to finish it, publish it,
edit it, all that stuff, and bythe time it was done we were
coming up on her one yearanniversary of her death.
So it, yeah, I really stillhaven't processed, if I'm being
(10:39):
honest.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
You know I was going to say the timeframe that you
mentioned.
You're probably still in thethick of it, I am.
I wouldn't imagine that youmentioned.
You're probably still in thethick of it.
I am.
I wouldn't imagine that therehas been a closure at this point
, not really.
You lost your mother and thenyou were in.
You probably had a almost likean in-between moment of like
what?
What am I going to do here?
How did you make?
(11:00):
I want to commend you formaking the decision to step back
, because I think a lot ofpeople would not have done that
and you know, speaking for youknow, I can imagine like I know
prior me would have thrownmyself further into work, or
like I would have tried todistract and deflect, and I'm
curious for your process, forsomebody listening that has
(11:20):
experienced a loss like this anddoesn't know what to do and
they're spiraling.
What was your process there?
How did you think this through?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I didn't think it through.
That's the beauty of it.
I I'm like you.
Like you said, I would havebeen like let's just dive into
work, let's, you know, justdistract myself.
But I really I had to take apregnant pause.
I really did, because I couldnot.
I could not accept that my momwas no longer here and I did not
(11:51):
want to accept that fact and soleaving the job.
That took it took some thought,but really and truly I really
woke up one day and it was seveno'clock in the morning and I'm
walking around the house and I'mlike, should I do it?
Do I do it?
And my husband's like sleep,not knowing what I'm, what I'm
doing.
(12:12):
I had talked to him about it.
I talked to him about it alittle bit like a couple of days
prior, but he didn't know if Iwas actually going to pull the
trigger.
But I, like I said, woke upthat Wednesday and called my
boss, who was out of town for awork trip, and I was like I know
that you're preparing for theday, but you know, I just want
(12:32):
you to know that this callserves as notice that this is my
last day at this company.
And she was just like what?
And I was like, yeah, so notgoing to be here anymore, just
wanted to say thank you for theopportunity.
When can I get my stuff to theoffice?
I can take it up there tomorrow, today, I don't care.
Just let me know what you wouldlike me to do.
(12:53):
And she was dumbfounded.
She was just like are you surethis is what you want to do?
Do you want to give it somethought?
And I'm like, oh, I have, thisis my thought.
So thank you, but no thanks.
And that's how I ended it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I just maybe not, because I guess certain people
won't have like the emotionalintelligence to be able to see
that somebody is reallystruggling through something,
and I know that I've encounteredcolleagues that are like that,
that they, they just don't havethat capacity.
How much pushback did you getfrom people around you in your
circle?
Anybody and I asked thisquestion because I'm sure
(13:31):
somebody listening might besaying like I want to take this
step, but everyone's breathingdown my neck, everyone's.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I know.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
How did you manage that?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Luckily, I didn't have anybody give me pushback
because, think about it, thepeople that were around me were
my siblings.
I have three of them have anolder brother, an older sister
and a twin sister, and all threeof them were like older brother
, an older sister and a twinsister, and all three of them
were like girl, do you?
If this is what you need to doto like get through mom's death,
(14:02):
do it.
I have such a tremendouslysupportive family that I love
very, very much.
Even my friends were like, if Icould, I would too.
I want to walk off this job.
Like yesterday, I was presentedwith a lot of respect and a lot
of I understand you, so thatactually was really, really
helpful in helping me seal thedeal on pulling the trigger on
(14:22):
my career.
I had to do it.
There was nothing stopping me,and I know that my mom would
have been like, if this isn'twhere you want to be right now
or need to be right now, thenyou need to take care of you.
I could just hear her sayingthat.
You could hear her voice.
I could hear her voice and Iwas like, mom, I think I'm going
to do it.
(14:43):
And she was like, go aheadchild Like, just do what you
have to do.
And so a lot of forethoughtdidn't happen.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Start messy right.
That's what we talked about.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, but it was just kind of like act on your
emotion and I know that that islike a recipe for disaster in
any case of your life, but inthis particular moment I needed
this, I needed to do it, so Idid, and I never looked back.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
You know, I don't think this was like a emotional
response.
This sounds more like youfollowed your instinct.
Yes, and I do also want to sayit is a profound blessing that
you have a circle around you.
that is how they are and thatthey are supportive and that
they do have, that they are intune with you.
(15:31):
I worked really hard to like,scale and pull together the
people that I know like know mewell enough to be like you need
to do what lights you up or youneed to do whatever you need to
do when this is a judgment, freespace, so that that in itself,
that's a beautiful thing thatyou have there and I'm so happy
that you do have that kind of asupport system in this scenario.
Now I have one more questionthat I want to ask about your
(15:55):
book, and I want you to talkabout the book a little bit more
from an outside perspectiveoutsiders that knew you during
this time or know you now duringthis time.
What is something that I couldsay, or someone could say, to
ask you to check in, to see howyou're doing, without being, you
know, overbearing or withoutbeing insensitive to what you're
going through?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, I found that, like my closest friends and even
those that were, you know, onthe periphery of my life, they
were asking questions like whatdo you need?
Not necessarily, how are youdoing?
My husband, the day that we, mymom died, we came home from her
house she lived about 45minutes away from me and we get
home it's dusk and I was justlooking around like what do I do
(16:37):
now?
I was just wasted.
I just looked around like Idon't even know what I'm doing
here and my mom's not here,because it was completely,
completely lost on me that Icould live in a world where my
mom wasn't physically here, andthat really just punched me in
(17:00):
the gut Like you have no idea.
And so my husband saw me and hesaw me panicking, quietly
panicking, and he was just likewhat do you need?
And I just said I need toscream, I need to scream.
I was just thinking that Goahead.
And so I did.
And he was like go for it.
And he plugged his ears up andI let out the most guttural
(17:25):
scream I've ever screamed in mylife and it was exactly what I
needed in that moment, just himasking what is it that you need?
What do you need?
How can I what?
Just tell me what it is andthat it was the right question
at the right time.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I always I always struggle when, when someone
passes with that part.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
If it's.
And even like me personally,like when it comes to stuff like
that, like with profound loss,I haven't experienced that yet
as this version of me.
When I was younger, when we hadlosses in the family, we had
suffered a couple of reallyprofound losses when I was a
teenager and in my earlytwenties and I was like I'm shut
down, don't talk to me about it, I don't want to talk about it,
(18:14):
I'm going to put my feelings inthis box and I'm tucking that
away and I'm going to justpretend like it didn't happen,
kind of thing.
And now I'm not so much likethat anymore.
That's why I asked the question, because I get awkward and I
think other people get awkwardin conversations like this with
how do I sensitively approachthis or how do I ask the
question?
Should I even ask the question?
(18:35):
And I think that a lot of folksdon't know how to respond and
myself included in a lot ofinstances and even showing up,
like you know, if I hear aboutsomebody who has passed, is it
respectful to go to the funeralor is it?
Should I give people space like?
There's always that question inmy mind of like what's
appropriate here If I haven'tbeen in touch with somebody and
(18:56):
I know that they've suffered aloss.
Do I still go?
I didn't really know the person, but I know the person who
suffered the loss and I thinkthat a lot of us struggle.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
The answer is always yes, you go, you pay your
respects.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I usually do.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, that's if I like.
I struggle with that too, likeI don't want to be encroached on
someone's privacy privacy andprivate affairs but it takes
nothing to just pay yourrespects and no one can look
down on that.
The answer is always you go.
If that's what your heart istelling you to do, if that's
what your spirit is calling youto do, you go and you pay your
(19:30):
respects.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I read recently, uh, uh, something online and it I
forget who it was, somebody Idon't know.
It was one of them, one of thestars, like one of the movie
stars, and they said that theywere relaying a story where, um,
there was a funeral forsomebody and he had wanted to go
to the funeral and it was.
He was like it wasn't evensomething I really knew, it was
like an acquaintance and hewanted to go, but then he kind
(19:53):
of didn't get around to it andit's bothered him for like 20
years that he didn't go.
I've had a similar instancewhere there was somebody who had
passed when I was in mytwenties.
I didn't go out of fear, to beperfectly honest, if I'm going
to be perfectly honest, it wasout of fear of like.
The exposure of emotion hasalways been something that I've
like.
Because of my own trauma, I'vealways boxed it and I've I've
(20:15):
regretted it for forever that Ididn't go to this one funeral
and now I go to everybody'sfunerals because you're right,
like I want to be there to paythe respects to the people that
are still here.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah, you always go, no question.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So you make the decision and you resign, and
your boss is shocked, obviously,but you're like, that's it?
Like effective immediately.
At what point did you realizeyou wanted to put what you've
gone through into a book?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
You know, about a week after I had no job, I was
like, well, I don't want tostart looking for a new job
right away.
I was like, well, I don't wantto start looking for a new job
right away, so let me figure outwhat I can do.
I started journaling when I waslike 12.
I have books and books ofjournals, just to the just book
to the brim, with pages andpages of my adolescent thoughts.
(21:05):
About a week after I quit, Iwas sitting around just writing
in my journal and then I waslike, wait a minute, let me use
my computer, because this istaking too long.
I have like really intricatehandwriting and it's just
annoying.
So I was like typing and I'mlike this is really turning into
something.
And then I kept going back toit.
(21:26):
I kept writing every single day.
I kept going back to it, keptadding things and kept changing
things and it just became whatRedbird is today.
At that point my husband waslike, well, what are you going
to do with these pages?
Are you going to just boundthem?
Are you going to give them toyour brothers and sisters, or
what are you going to do?
And I was like, I'm going topublish it, I'm going to get it
(21:49):
published.
And he was like, oh okay.
So we did the work of trying tofind publishers.
And that was tedious so tediouslike having to send, you know,
an abstract to you know literaryagents is not fun and it takes
so much time.
I was just like let's justself-publish.
And then I heard about I heardabout Amazon and KDP publishing
(22:11):
and all that, and I was like I'mgoing to do that.
So I had a discovery call thevery next day with a guy from
KDP and he was like we can dothis for you, we can help you
with your cover art.
What ideas do you have?
And I did it.
So within like a month we wererocking and rolling, they were
(22:31):
editing everything and we cameup with the cover and it was
really exciting and I was justlike I cannot believe, I'm going
to do this.
And 12 months later, redbirdwas let free do you feel like I
really love that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Do you feel like and I know you're still working on
healing because what you wentthrough is a lot, doesn't even
cover it?
What you went through is it isit's just life altering and you
did you alter your life?
Do you feel like the book insome way is almost like a part
of you that you're putting outthere that is meant to also heal
(23:06):
you, because what you're doingto and I want to commend you for
taking time looking at what youhad and then also realizing
like you could actually helpother people- yeah, I really
thank you for the commendation.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I really appreciate that because I felt kind of like
a loser when I couldn't cope.
I felt like, oh man, I'm notdealing with this in the way
that I would want to, morepoised and more.
But I think that when I lookback on it now I'm more of I
can't believe I did that.
Like I'm in shock of what I wasable to.
(23:55):
You afforded the opportunity toactually leave my job and not
be homeless.
You know what I mean.
Like I'm so happy that I havethe resources to do this and I
will never regret that decision.
I think it was the best one thatI could have made at the time.
That decision, I think it wasthe best one that I could have
made at the time and I need tostop being so hard on myself and
(24:17):
thinking that I'm a loserbecause I I couldn't hack it.
You know I couldn't hack thegrief, but grief is hard for
everybody.
It's different for everybody.
Some people take pauses, somepeople just throw themselves
into the, into the thick ofthings, and I just couldn't do
that.
I had to to realize I was outof my depth in that regard.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Even that step, what you just talked about there's.
It's interesting that there'sshame, that and I again like I
haven't experienced it, but I'mhearing you say it, so I'm going
to assume that other people areexperiencing this it's
interesting that there's shamethat comes along with not being
able to handle grief quickly.
Why should we handle griefquickly?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Look at corporate America, though.
The bereavement days that theygive you is three or five Like
for a whole mom, like what?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You know, I've thought about that actually a
couple of times.
I haven't checked what mycorporate policy is.
I have my corporate job rightGirl.
I have thought quite a bitabout that and I'm like I'm
going to need weeks, months,like I'm not going to be okay to
be like, yeah, let me just goback.
And you know, I know it lessenslike the further away the
(25:25):
relative is.
I'm close with my grandmother.
I'm going to need a minute.
Right, at least give me aminute.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
No, I won't.
And it was crazy because Ieulogized my mom and having to
prep for the memorial.
I took at least a week off forthat.
I was like I'm not going to beworking during me, trying to
eulogize my mom like no freakingway and having to put
everything together, get thelinens for the tables at the
(26:00):
repass, do all this, figure outwhat we're going to have it,
have her cremated, get the urn.
It was, it was a lot.
It was a huge production.
I think it's very similar toproducing a wedding.
It was really crazy the amountof things that we had to do.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So this part.
I know about this part.
I know a little bit about onlybecause my mother still with me.
She came to me last year andwas like she lives down in
Delaware.
But she said to me she was likelook, she was like she's
getting everything set up, shehas her will in place, she has
all her things, all her ducks,in a row, and she's not ill,
(26:37):
she's okay.
But she said to me she's like Ijust want to make sure
everything is done, all thedecisions are made, because
you're going to need time tomourn.
You don't want to be like oh,let me pick up the casket, and
how are we going to pay for thisand all this stuff?
So she said to me she's likecan you just come with me?
I already know what funeralparlor I want to be have.
You know everything at theviewings and everything.
(26:59):
She was like I already knowwhere I want to go with stuff.
And she was like I know where Iwant my plot to be.
She was like I would like totake care of all this.
Now she's like can you justcome with me?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And it was basically meeting.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
That's why I said to you I'm like my mom has been
really on this and making surebecause she lost her parents and
it was a shock, you know, likethey were ill and they were
older, but it's still like was alot to deal with in that moment
and and she my, my aunt, shelost her husband.
Like having to go through it inthe moment is, like you said,
like that's really horrible,like you're suffered this loss
(27:30):
but now you have to make allthese decisions.
I went with her to the funeralhome.
This particular funeral home ispart of a network of funeral
homes, so you could basicallypartner with a, basically an
event planner and pre-selecteverything out.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
No.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
And you can make monthly payments on it.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
No.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I'm not kidding, and you could purchase insurance to
insure your package.
So if you pass before you'vepaid everything off, it is
considered 100% paid and I cangive you the information.
I will email it to you.
Yeah, it's considered 100%percent paid and I can give you
the information.
I will email it to you.
Yeah, it's considered a hundredpercent paid off and they will
handle everything.
So we picked out her casket.
We picked out she already hasher plot.
(28:11):
That's already taken care of.
All of the decisions have beenmade already for floral.
Every single decision that hasto be made when somebody passes.
We've already done it,including the pickup of her body
, Delaware and bringing it up.
No decisions have to be made.
Everything is done.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It's something creepy to talk about such a blessing.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
But I am so happy that she did that and and
because she did it I've set itup for my husband and I were
done Like if anything shouldhappen if anything should happen
.
We, I have three littlechildren.
So I'm like, if anything shouldhappen, we, I have three little
children.
So I'm like, if anything shouldhappen to me, it's already
taken care of.
No one has to worry aboutanything.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
We're already done Same with my husband.
You know, that is incredible.
My mom she didn't do anythinglike that, but she had
everything written out and sheinitially, when she did her last
will and testament, she had X'dout about the burial.
She said cremate me and thensigned her name next to it.
She changed her mind at thelast minute.
(29:09):
I don't know when this was done, but it was in her handwriting
and it, you know, was signed byher and I was like, oh my God,
mom, god, mom, and she.
I mean she had passwords, allkinds of things, that this is my
account, information forsavings, checking, retirement,
all this stuff.
(29:29):
So she had everything.
We didn't have to really doanything.
The only thing we had to do wasthe affidavit of heirship.
When someone dies and they havea will, one of the things that
you have to do if you don't wantto go through probate is submit
an affidavit of heirship forthe children in the family who
are proceeding their parents'death.
So we did that.
(29:50):
That's the only paperwork wereally had to do and we got the
proceeds from her estate veryquickly because of that estate.
Very quickly because of that.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
That's how my mother has set everything up and yeah,
I, I came home from doing allthat with her.
It was a little it's a littlebit strange to have to face it,
but because we've done it, Iknow like when, when the time
comes, like I can just focus onhonoring yeah, and the people
who love you.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
If it's you that passes, they can just take the
time they need to truly processthe loss.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And you know it's interesting even I know like
this is kind of like an offshootdiscussion, but people like you
said, like we plan for weddings, births, Yep, we pre-plan, we
hire people, like we really goto town for all these life
events, but for some reason andI think it's because we're all
scared to really think about it-yeah.
Once the this, nobody reallypreps.
(30:49):
People aren't prepping and, asI mentioned, like there's so the
funeral place that my mother isgoing to and they have this
vast network.
So even if I were to die inanother state, no if right, and
I was in a different state whenI passed and that's where I want
to be buried and everythingthey will just connect me with
(31:09):
another funeral parlor closer tome in their network and they
will transfer everything over tothat Like it's it's all
integrated to the point wherethere will be no problems, Like
we can really easily pivot, andthat I was shocked when he told
me about this.
I'm like when did this have?
Why isn't this being advertisedsomewhere?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
but it's because like where is it not?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
it should be talked about.
And even you know, youmentioned like your mother had
everything written down,including passwords and
everything like that.
I've actually given that quitea bit of thought on my side
because in preparation for myfamily, I handle all the
financials and everything.
So, like the deed, the housedeed, like the cars, like you
(31:49):
know, my husband has to knowwhere all that is.
It has to be packaged upbecause he's not in the day to
day with it, so he's not goingto really know.
And I thought about this andI'm like, oh my God, like I need
to not not just keep itorganized for myself, but I need
to keep it organized to pass itoff.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
For him.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, because and that's really what this is when
you think about it if you take astep back and you think about
it for yourself and the planningfor it, you're not just
planning it because of you,you're planning it to help your
family and if you think of itfrom that angle and if you're
listening to this it might soundagain it sounds a little crazy,
but if you're listening to thislike, this is important.
This is a significant life event.
(32:26):
We can't avoid this.
And I will say this like thepayments that the payment plan
that you know they set up, it'srelatively low, it's like 300.
What it's not?
That's why I'm like I was kindof mad that I didn't know about
it until now, and now I want totell people that.
So I'm like it's a low costkind of thing.
Just throw it in like anotherbill, start paying.
It's like insurance, it is.
(32:48):
That's exactly what it is.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
That's exactly what it is.
That's exactly what it is,because what a neat program.
Because think about the peoplewho are in a situation where
they may not be financially liketop heavy, where they may not
be financially like top heavyand they can slowly pay for Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Honestly, exactly, and I don't think people realize
, like how immensely expensivefuneral.
It can be really expensive andeven if you, honestly, like I,
was there looking at the optionsfor things and even on the
lower end it was very, it waspricey.
Like we're talking about$30,000, $20,000, like easily
just, and that's for the lessexpensive packages.
(33:28):
So to think about that, thatwas always the part that used to
give me anxiety, because Idon't have $30,000 lying around.
So, like if someone has, likeI'd be kind of stuck, I'd be
like, oh no, like what am Isupposed to do?
So it's a, it's a program thatI'm incredibly impressed with
and it is something that I dothink like we do need to prepare
, like we do need to talk moreabout it and, yeah, almost
(33:50):
normalize the discussion alittle bit.
The same way we're like planfor your child's birth, plan for
your weddings plan.
Yeah, you know you have to do it, at least have your ducks in a
row, some kind of way, right,right.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
So I'm in some capacity, in some capacity.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So that's something.
So it's a little bit easier andnot as complex.
Yeah, definitely.
So now your, your book is outand I want to put a link here
just to show like it's availableon Amazon.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
So and Barnes and Noble and book people.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Amazon, so, and Barnes and Noble and book people
, beautiful, wonderful, I'm like.
So I'm very happy that you didthis because I've had a.
I have had quite a few guestscome on the show that you know
have gone through traumaticevents, and it's almost every
single woman comes on and tellstheir story and you're one of
the ones that is taking this andeveryone across.
You're taking what you've gonethrough and you're sharing it
and I think in a way it will.
It will help to heal you, toknow that other people are
(34:48):
drawing from this.
putting your like personaltrauma onto paper and putting it
out into the world is doingsomething for you energetically,
and I think you probably feelthat I'm not sure if you feel it
.
Yet you do feel it.
I would think that you would,just because I have read so much
about what that could do foryou in this situation, to help
(35:10):
you heal through healing otherfolks.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yeah, it's.
It's been a true delight ofmine to be able to speak to so
many people on podcasts and justtell my story, because I don't
just talk about loss.
I talk about, you know, bodyimage issues.
I talk about trying to end mylife when I was 24.
I talk about being in a mentalfacility.
My mom had me committed becauseI tried to kill myself.
(35:35):
So these are things that Idon't take lightly, but it felt
so cathartic to get it out andin the hopes that I could help
someone else.
Oh, yay.
You're so sweet.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Oh my God, yes me too , and my husband gets really mad
at me because he's like enough,but I can't help it.
I am really excited to readyour book and, without giving
too much away the overarchingmessage from your book, what
(36:22):
would it be?
What is the big picture thatyou really want someone to take
your book and walk away with?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
The overarching theme is just give yourself grace, no
matter what it is that you'regoing through.
You have to be easy on yourself, because this life is hard, it
is so complex.
And dealing with the losses anddealing with just everything I
went through in my childhood thebullying, the craziness and all
of that made me who I am today.
(36:51):
If I hadn't given myself graceat some stage of my life, I
would not be where I am today.
It's just something that I feelis needed.
We're all human in this worldand it's something that I feel
is needed.
We're all human in this worldand it's something that I take
to heart.
Just the idea that you don'tconsider yourself enough,
because I went through that myentire life, the most of my 20s,
(37:14):
hell, some of my 30s.
I was just like why am I here?
Oh, my God, I suck, but reallyI would not be the person I am
today without all of thosetrials, without those
tribulations.
And just give yourself grace.
That's my message, that's it.
That's it.
I love that because I say thatquite a bit, I do.
(37:34):
You do Okay good.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I do.
I say it all the time because Iconsistently have found myself
in scenarios where I'm likebeating myself up and, like you
know, really coming down onmyself and for various reasons,
and it's not necessary.
I've gotten much better.
Starting at 37 to now.
(37:56):
I have gotten much better, butit took 37 years on this planet
for me to recycle and be likewait a minute, you're not doing
this right.
You're like beating yourself up.
I mean I would.
It was very real and I think alot of women go through that.
We don't allow grace and wedon't just acknowledge the fact.
Like look at, look at whatyou've done, like it's okay,
(38:17):
like you're not going to hit,you're not going to hit it out
of the park every single day,every single time.
Take it one day at a time.
Like it's okay, like you don'thave to be, you know, at the tip
of the top.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree.
So I'm very much lookingforward to reading your book.
I hope I.
I did see your website, so Iwant to bring that up to books
by the by Deandra um.
(38:38):
I saw that you have your sociallinked on there.
There's a contact area, so Iwant to pull that up and
encourage everyone to visit thatwebsite as well, because you'd
be able to have a direct accesslink and you can check out all
her other materials.
You can read everything abouther.
So thank you so much for comingon the show today.
I really, really appreciatethis chat.
And, jenny, thank you.
(38:58):
I'm thrilled that you're onthis journey.
I'm actually very excited tosee what you do next, because I
think that you are doingsomething next.
I haven't talked about that, butI have a feeling you are,
because I've got a sense herethat you are not done and
there's going to be a lot moreto come.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I'm very excited about it.
Yes, ma'am, you're predictingcorrectly, ma'am, you are.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Well, when you're ready, you come back to the show
, because I would love you comeback and we can talk about what
you're doing next, cause Ialready know.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
I already know.
Yes, yes, ma'am, yes, I willdefinitely be back and thank you
so much for the space and thankyou for the time.
You are awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Well, listeners, thank you for joining us today.
We greatly appreciate you.
You can check out the under hislinks.
Um, they'll be in the episodedescriptions and they're going
to push forward to the podcastas well.
So if you only caught some ofthe discussion today, you can
listen to the full recording onYouTube and then through the
podcast platform of your choice.
Thank you and take care, we'llcatch you on the next one.
Good morning everybody.
This is Still Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I am super excited this morningto introduce all of you to
D'Andra.
D'andra Ford-Wing is apassionate storyteller and
dynamic sales director whodiscovered the healing power of
writing during a period ofprofound grief.
Growing up as an army brat,d'andra's formative years were
(00:21):
spent in culturally diversesettings, including Germany,
which shaped her uniquenarrative style.
After the loss of her mother,deandra embarked on a
transformative journey thatinspired her debut memoir,
redbird.
Through this work, she sharesher personal reflections on love
, loss and resilience, hoping toinspire others facing life's
trials.
Deandra, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Thank you, jenny, it's so good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
And I appreciate you joining me this morning.
I had to do a bunch of espressoshots.
I was really struggling.
I was really struggling.
I'm super excited to talk withyou today.
I would love for you to, as afirst step, just share your
story with the listeners and letthem know what inspired Redbird
.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah.
So, quite simply, theinspiration behind Red Bird came
from losing both my aunt and mymom in close succession.
My aunt died while becoming anexpat to live in the Gambia, she
left the United States and theneight months later she was dead
.
And there are still so manyunknowns surrounding her death
(01:24):
and so many questions that haveleft to be unanswered.
And my mom never got over hersister's death.
So when she died, you know, 14months later, I just had to take
a pause.
I had to reset, recalibrate andjust figure out what I wanted
to do.
I quit my job.
I just wanted to focus solelyon honoring my mom, and the way
(01:47):
that I did that is throughwriting Redbird.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
You mentioned your mother.
Your mother had some.
She struggled with the loss ofher sister.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
During this trauma.
You know, I think, when, whenwe have the loss of a loved one,
especially the first time youhave a close relative, pass is
is really jarring, because whileyou expect it, you also almost
don't expect it, like you kindof just think it's not going to
happen.
My grandmother is 97 and we knowthat every day is a gift Like
(02:20):
that's just not given because atthis point this is borrowed
time.
But when somebody is muchyounger, you don't expect that
there is going to be a profoundloss.
So when you lost your aunt, howdid that that affect you?
How did that loss affect you?
And then what did you see inyour mother, Like the physical
response, even.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah.
So it affected me in a way thatI can't describe.
She was 53 and we're prettyclose in age Now.
I was like 43 at the time andI'm now 46.
So going through losing someonethat was the baby of the family
(03:01):
cause she was the youngestchild and then being so close in
age to her, I really reallytook it hard.
I took it like, oh my God, shewas just here and now.
It just shows just how fleetinglife is, and the way that it
presented in my mom was that Icould see that a light had
(03:21):
dimmed in her.
I could tell that she was just.
This had taken her out Becauseshe had lost her mom when she
was 28.
And she mourned that loss herentire life.
She never got over her mom'sdeath and then this was just a
crushing blow to lose her babysister.
It was too much.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I can only very gently imagine, as I've never
experienced anything like thisand I I almost I don't live in
fear of it, but I am now becauseI'm turning 42 this year and my
husband just turned 50.
And so we're getting to thepoint where, you know, our
parents are obviously older andthe discussions around mortality
(04:04):
have sort of started.
My mom has actually beenbringing mortality up our whole
lives and sort of trying to makeit something okay to talk about
and not brush to the sidebecause, as almost like a step
in the direction of you willeventually experience a loss,
like it is going to happen.
We don't have a choice, we haveto have that happen to us.
How did you process the loss ofyour aunt?
(04:26):
And actually one thing I dowant to ask for the listeners
can you go into more details asto what an expat is?
I want to make sure theyunderstand what happened.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah.
So my aunt had decided, youknow, months prior to her
leaving the United States, thatshe did not want to live on US
soil.
She was just like everythingthat's happened to me here in
the United States that she didnot want to live on US soil.
She was just like everythingthat's happened to me here in
the United States has not beenan optimal experience.
So I want to see what the restof the world has to offer.
(04:55):
And she then decided that shewas going to leave the United
States but then also expatriate.
She wanted to not be a UScitizen, she wanted to be a
citizen of the world, and I canappreciate that.
She booked a one-way ticket tothe Gambia and was never seen
(05:16):
again.
It was just.
It's.
The way that it happened wassuch that you would think it was
a lifetime movie, like it wasjust, it was crazy.
And then having to contact theU?
S embassy over in the Gambiawas literally an act of Congress
.
It took me days to nail downthe right number, the right
(05:38):
contact.
It was.
I had a spreadsheet that I kept.
You know a track of all thenumbers, because I was just
dialing, dialing out, trying tofigure out who I could talk to.
It was the craziest scenarioyou could have even imagined.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That sounds.
It's.
You're right, it does soundlike a lifetime movie.
It sounds like a livingnightmare, though, because you
can't get in touch with youraunt.
So obviously you know somethingis wrong, but there's no way
for you to really know what'sgoing on unless you physically
fly over there and like start,you know feet on the ground,
like where are, where is this,where's my aunt, where's my
(06:13):
relative?
Yeah, I can't even imagine, andI will admit this to.
Like you know, in our household, my husband had wanted to go,
he wanted to go away, and he was, you know, saying like oh, I'd
love to go on vacation this andthat, and I've done that.
I'm one of those wives that I'mlike oh, go, like, have fun,
like yeah, I'll book you aticket Like go go for it.
And you know, I'm like everyoneneeds a break, like everyone
(06:46):
needs a rep.
Yeah, and it's.
It's sad to really think of thefact that, like, I haven't been
touched by any of this, but thefear is there.
So much so to the point where,um, you know, we all got our
passports and I made it a pointto make sure that my husband has
a passport card that he cancarry on his physical person for
fear of.
(07:06):
I don't know what's going tohappen.
He's from Ecuador, so I'm likeI would prefer for you to have
every protection possible onyour physical person so that you
can be identified because, godforbid, I don't know.
And then the fear of honestlylike him traveling solo.
It sounds silly.
He's a grown man, he'sphysically fit, like he can
handle himself.
But there's this.
You know, you watch what'sgoing on in the world today and
you're like I don't want to sendmy loved one out there without
(07:27):
me.
I know.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And we I definitely had my reservations about her
going over there, but you can'ttell an adult what to do and she
was really, really earnest, shereally wanted to do this.
And when she got over there andwe don't know what the story is
, but she had she was about toget married to some guy that she
(07:50):
met over there.
We don't know if they weretalking prior to her getting
over to the Gambia, like theyhad had some kind of pen pal
relationship.
We don't, we don't know, butshe was going to be married to
this guy and he's the reason whywe know that she had passed
away.
He called my mom at four o'clockin the morning when random
(08:10):
Sunday and said that she wasgone.
And my mom was confused.
She was like what do you meanto the store?
Like I don't, where's thisgoing?
And he was like no, sandra,she's, she's passed away, she
died.
And he was like no, sandra,she's passed away, she died.
And that's when, the very nextday, that Monday, that's when I
started making phone calls tothe police, to anybody, just to
(08:33):
see if this was in fact true.
And it was just.
It took so much, so much workand so much time because it was
impossible to nail down thecorrect person to be speaking to
in this regard.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And it also I think it almost also leaves an open
wound there and I could see howyour mother would have trouble
healing because at least whenher mother passed there it's
here and we go through.
You know we have our processeshere.
You know you go to the funeralhome like you.
There is some levels of closurethat we get here that in this
(09:13):
scenario she's never gonna get.
She's not gonna have that likethat and it never came, and now
you're left living withquestions still, and probably
I'm going to want to put wordsin your mouth, but I would
imagine that you feel a lot ofanger too, because that's where
I would be.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
We were.
My mom was so ticked off, Likeshe was just like what in the
world is happening here, likeshe could not wrap her brain
around it, and that's why I tookit upon myself to be the one to
do the reaching out, because mymom did not have the mental
capacity to do it.
She was just, she was fit to betied, she was just over it and
(09:54):
she could not handle theemotional pressure of trying to
figure out what had happened toher sister.
So I took on that and I didn'tget a chance to grieve because I
was, you know, in go mode.
I was in go mode and it just,it really it took a toll on me.
And then, you know, monthslater, when my mom died, I
(10:15):
really had no choice but to justtake a step back and, you know,
like I said, quit my job anddedicated my life to writing
this book.
It took me almost 12 months, ayear, to finish it, publish it,
edit it, all that stuff, and bythe time it was done we were
coming up on her one yearanniversary of her death.
So it, yeah, I really stillhaven't processed, if I'm being
(10:39):
honest.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
You know I was going to say the timeframe that you
mentioned.
You're probably still in thethick of it, I am.
I wouldn't imagine that youmentioned.
You're probably still in thethick of it.
I am.
I wouldn't imagine that therehas been a closure at this point
, not really.
You lost your mother and thenyou were in.
You probably had a almost likean in-between moment of like
what?
What am I going to do here?
How did you make?
(11:00):
I want to commend you formaking the decision to step back
, because I think a lot ofpeople would not have done that
and you know, speaking for youknow, I can imagine like I know
prior me would have thrownmyself further into work, or
like I would have tried todistract and deflect, and I'm
curious for your process, forsomebody listening that has
(11:20):
experienced a loss like this anddoesn't know what to do and
they're spiraling.
What was your process there?
How did you think this through?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I didn't think it through.
That's the beauty of it.
I I'm like you.
Like you said, I would havebeen like let's just dive into
work, let's, you know, justdistract myself.
But I really I had to take apregnant pause.
I really did, because I couldnot.
I could not accept that my momwas no longer here and I did not
(11:51):
want to accept that fact and soleaving the job.
That took it took some thought,but really and truly I really
woke up one day and it was seveno'clock in the morning and I'm
walking around the house and I'mlike, should I do it?
Do I do it?
And my husband's like sleep,not knowing what I'm, what I'm
doing.
(12:12):
I had talked to him about it.
I talked to him about it alittle bit like a couple of days
prior, but he didn't know if Iwas actually going to pull the
trigger.
But I, like I said, woke upthat Wednesday and called my
boss, who was out of town for awork trip, and I was like I know
that you're preparing for theday, but you know, I just want
(12:32):
you to know that this callserves as notice that this is my
last day at this company.
And she was just like what?
And I was like, yeah, so notgoing to be here anymore, just
wanted to say thank you for theopportunity.
When can I get my stuff to theoffice?
I can take it up there tomorrow, today, I don't care.
Just let me know what you wouldlike me to do.
(12:53):
And she was dumbfounded.
She was just like are you surethis is what you want to do?
Do you want to give it somethought?
And I'm like, oh, I have, thisis my thought.
So thank you, but no thanks.
And that's how I ended it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I just maybe not, because I guess certain people
won't have like the emotionalintelligence to be able to see
that somebody is reallystruggling through something,
and I know that I've encounteredcolleagues that are like that,
that they, they just don't havethat capacity.
How much pushback did you getfrom people around you in your
circle?
Anybody and I asked thisquestion because I'm sure
(13:31):
somebody listening might besaying like I want to take this
step, but everyone's breathingdown my neck, everyone's.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I know.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
How did you manage that?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Luckily, I didn't have anybody give me pushback
because, think about it, thepeople that were around me were
my siblings.
I have three of them have anolder brother, an older sister
and a twin sister, and all threeof them were like older brother
, an older sister and a twinsister, and all three of them
were like girl, do you?
If this is what you need to doto like get through mom's death,
(14:02):
do it.
I have such a tremendouslysupportive family that I love
very, very much.
Even my friends were like, if Icould, I would too.
I want to walk off this job.
Like yesterday, I was presentedwith a lot of respect and a lot
of I understand you, so thatactually was really, really
helpful in helping me seal thedeal on pulling the trigger on
(14:22):
my career.
I had to do it.
There was nothing stopping me,and I know that my mom would
have been like, if this isn'twhere you want to be right now
or need to be right now, thenyou need to take care of you.
I could just hear her sayingthat.
You could hear her voice.
I could hear her voice and Iwas like, mom, I think I'm going
to do it.
(14:43):
And she was like, go aheadchild Like, just do what you
have to do.
And so a lot of forethoughtdidn't happen.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Start messy right.
That's what we talked about.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, but it was just kind of like act on your
emotion and I know that that islike a recipe for disaster in
any case of your life, but inthis particular moment I needed
this, I needed to do it, so Idid, and I never looked back.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
You know, I don't think this was like a emotional
response.
This sounds more like youfollowed your instinct.
Yes, and I do also want to sayit is a profound blessing that
you have a circle around you.
that is how they are and thatthey are supportive and that
they do have, that they are intune with you.
(15:31):
I worked really hard to like,scale and pull together the
people that I know like know mewell enough to be like you need
to do what lights you up or youneed to do whatever you need to
do when this is a judgment, freespace, so that that in itself,
that's a beautiful thing thatyou have there and I'm so happy
that you do have that kind of asupport system in this scenario.
Now I have one more questionthat I want to ask about your
(15:55):
book, and I want you to talkabout the book a little bit more
from an outside perspectiveoutsiders that knew you during
this time or know you now duringthis time.
What is something that I couldsay, or someone could say, to
ask you to check in, to see howyou're doing, without being, you
know, overbearing or withoutbeing insensitive to what you're
going through?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, I found that, like my closest friends and even
those that were, you know, onthe periphery of my life, they
were asking questions like whatdo you need?
Not necessarily, how are youdoing?
My husband, the day that we, mymom died, we came home from her
house she lived about 45minutes away from me and we get
home it's dusk and I was justlooking around like what do I do
(16:37):
now?
I was just wasted.
I just looked around like Idon't even know what I'm doing
here and my mom's not here,because it was completely,
completely lost on me that Icould live in a world where my
mom wasn't physically here, andthat really just punched me in
(17:00):
the gut Like you have no idea.
And so my husband saw me and hesaw me panicking, quietly
panicking, and he was just likewhat do you need?
And I just said I need toscream, I need to scream.
I was just thinking that Goahead.
And so I did.
And he was like go for it.
And he plugged his ears up andI let out the most guttural
(17:25):
scream I've ever screamed in mylife and it was exactly what I
needed in that moment, just himasking what is it that you need?
What do you need?
How can I what?
Just tell me what it is andthat it was the right question
at the right time.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I always I always struggle when, when someone
passes with that part.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
If it's.
And even like me personally,like when it comes to stuff like
that, like with profound loss,I haven't experienced that yet
as this version of me.
When I was younger, when we hadlosses in the family, we had
suffered a couple of reallyprofound losses when I was a
teenager and in my earlytwenties and I was like I'm shut
down, don't talk to me about it, I don't want to talk about it,
(18:14):
I'm going to put my feelings inthis box and I'm tucking that
away and I'm going to justpretend like it didn't happen,
kind of thing.
And now I'm not so much likethat anymore.
That's why I asked the question, because I get awkward and I
think other people get awkwardin conversations like this with
how do I sensitively approachthis or how do I ask the
question?
Should I even ask the question?
(18:35):
And I think that a lot of folksdon't know how to respond and
myself included in a lot ofinstances and even showing up,
like you know, if I hear aboutsomebody who has passed, is it
respectful to go to the funeralor is it?
Should I give people space like?
There's always that question inmy mind of like what's
appropriate here If I haven'tbeen in touch with somebody and
(18:56):
I know that they've suffered aloss.
Do I still go?
I didn't really know the person, but I know the person who
suffered the loss and I thinkthat a lot of us struggle.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
The answer is always yes, you go, you pay your
respects.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I usually do.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, that's if I like.
I struggle with that too, likeI don't want to be encroached on
someone's privacy privacy andprivate affairs but it takes
nothing to just pay yourrespects and no one can look
down on that.
The answer is always you go.
If that's what your heart istelling you to do, if that's
what your spirit is calling youto do, you go and you pay your
(19:30):
respects.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I read recently, uh, uh, something online and it I
forget who it was, somebody Idon't know.
It was one of them, one of thestars, like one of the movie
stars, and they said that theywere relaying a story where, um,
there was a funeral forsomebody and he had wanted to go
to the funeral and it was.
He was like it wasn't evensomething I really knew, it was
like an acquaintance and hewanted to go, but then he kind
(19:53):
of didn't get around to it andit's bothered him for like 20
years that he didn't go.
I've had a similar instancewhere there was somebody who had
passed when I was in mytwenties.
I didn't go out of fear, to beperfectly honest, if I'm going
to be perfectly honest, it wasout of fear of like.
The exposure of emotion hasalways been something that I've
like.
Because of my own trauma, I'vealways boxed it and I've I've
(20:15):
regretted it for forever that Ididn't go to this one funeral
and now I go to everybody'sfunerals because you're right,
like I want to be there to paythe respects to the people that
are still here.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah, you always go, no question.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So you make the decision and you resign, and
your boss is shocked, obviously,but you're like, that's it?
Like effective immediately.
At what point did you realizeyou wanted to put what you've
gone through into a book?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
You know, about a week after I had no job, I was
like, well, I don't want tostart looking for a new job
right away.
I was like, well, I don't wantto start looking for a new job
right away, so let me figure outwhat I can do.
I started journaling when I waslike 12.
I have books and books ofjournals, just to the just book
to the brim, with pages andpages of my adolescent thoughts.
(21:05):
About a week after I quit, Iwas sitting around just writing
in my journal and then I waslike, wait a minute, let me use
my computer, because this istaking too long.
I have like really intricatehandwriting and it's just
annoying.
So I was like typing and I'mlike this is really turning into
something.
And then I kept going back toit.
(21:26):
I kept writing every single day.
I kept going back to it, keptadding things and kept changing
things and it just became whatRedbird is today.
At that point my husband waslike, well, what are you going
to do with these pages?
Are you going to just boundthem?
Are you going to give them toyour brothers and sisters, or
what are you going to do?
And I was like, I'm going topublish it, I'm going to get it
(21:49):
published.
And he was like, oh okay.
So we did the work of trying tofind publishers.
And that was tedious so tediouslike having to send, you know,
an abstract to you know literaryagents is not fun and it takes
so much time.
I was just like let's justself-publish.
And then I heard about I heardabout Amazon and KDP publishing
(22:11):
and all that, and I was like I'mgoing to do that.
So I had a discovery call thevery next day with a guy from
KDP and he was like we can dothis for you, we can help you
with your cover art.
What ideas do you have?
And I did it.
So within like a month we wererocking and rolling, they were
(22:31):
editing everything and we cameup with the cover and it was
really exciting and I was justlike I cannot believe, I'm going
to do this.
And 12 months later, redbirdwas let free do you feel like I
really love that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Do you feel like and I know you're still working on
healing because what you wentthrough is a lot, doesn't even
cover it?
What you went through is it isit's just life altering and you
did you alter your life?
Do you feel like the book insome way is almost like a part
of you that you're putting outthere that is meant to also heal
(23:06):
you, because what you're doingto and I want to commend you for
taking time looking at what youhad and then also realizing
like you could actually helpother people- yeah, I really
thank you for the commendation.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I really appreciate that because I felt kind of like
a loser when I couldn't cope.
I felt like, oh man, I'm notdealing with this in the way
that I would want to, morepoised and more.
But I think that when I lookback on it now I'm more of I
can't believe I did that.
Like I'm in shock of what I wasable to.
(23:55):
You afforded the opportunity toactually leave my job and not
be homeless.
You know what I mean.
Like I'm so happy that I havethe resources to do this and I
will never regret that decision.
I think it was the best one thatI could have made at the time.
That decision, I think it wasthe best one that I could have
made at the time and I need tostop being so hard on myself and
(24:17):
thinking that I'm a loserbecause I I couldn't hack it.
You know I couldn't hack thegrief, but grief is hard for
everybody.
It's different for everybody.
Some people take pauses, somepeople just throw themselves
into the, into the thick ofthings, and I just couldn't do
that.
I had to to realize I was outof my depth in that regard.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Even that step, what you just talked about there's.
It's interesting that there'sshame, that and I again like I
haven't experienced it, but I'mhearing you say it, so I'm going
to assume that other people areexperiencing this it's
interesting that there's shamethat comes along with not being
able to handle grief quickly.
Why should we handle griefquickly?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Look at corporate America, though.
The bereavement days that theygive you is three or five Like
for a whole mom, like what?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You know, I've thought about that actually a
couple of times.
I haven't checked what mycorporate policy is.
I have my corporate job rightGirl.
I have thought quite a bitabout that and I'm like I'm
going to need weeks, months,like I'm not going to be okay to
be like, yeah, let me just goback.
And you know, I know it lessenslike the further away the
(25:25):
relative is.
I'm close with my grandmother.
I'm going to need a minute.
Right, at least give me aminute.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
No, I won't.
And it was crazy because Ieulogized my mom and having to
prep for the memorial.
I took at least a week off forthat.
I was like I'm not going to beworking during me, trying to
eulogize my mom like no freakingway and having to put
everything together, get thelinens for the tables at the
(26:00):
repass, do all this, figure outwhat we're going to have it,
have her cremated, get the urn.
It was, it was a lot.
It was a huge production.
I think it's very similar toproducing a wedding.
It was really crazy the amountof things that we had to do.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So this part.
I know about this part.
I know a little bit about onlybecause my mother still with me.
She came to me last year andwas like she lives down in
Delaware.
But she said to me she was likelook, she was like she's
getting everything set up, shehas her will in place, she has
all her things, all her ducks,in a row, and she's not ill,
(26:37):
she's okay.
But she said to me she's like Ijust want to make sure
everything is done, all thedecisions are made, because
you're going to need time tomourn.
You don't want to be like oh,let me pick up the casket, and
how are we going to pay for thisand all this stuff?
So she said to me she's likecan you just come with me?
I already know what funeralparlor I want to be have.
You know everything at theviewings and everything.
(26:59):
She was like I already knowwhere I want to go with stuff.
And she was like I know where Iwant my plot to be.
She was like I would like totake care of all this.
Now she's like can you justcome with me?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And it was basically meeting.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
That's why I said to you I'm like my mom has been
really on this and making surebecause she lost her parents and
it was a shock, you know, likethey were ill and they were
older, but it's still like was alot to deal with in that moment
and and she my, my aunt, shelost her husband.
Like having to go through it inthe moment is, like you said,
like that's really horrible,like you're suffered this loss
(27:30):
but now you have to make allthese decisions.
I went with her to the funeralhome.
This particular funeral home ispart of a network of funeral
homes, so you could basicallypartner with a, basically an
event planner and pre-selecteverything out.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
No.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
And you can make monthly payments on it.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
No.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I'm not kidding, and you could purchase insurance to
insure your package.
So if you pass before you'vepaid everything off, it is
considered 100% paid and I cangive you the information.
I will email it to you.
Yeah, it's considered 100%percent paid and I can give you
the information.
I will email it to you.
Yeah, it's considered a hundredpercent paid off and they will
handle everything.
So we picked out her casket.
We picked out she already hasher plot.
(28:11):
That's already taken care of.
All of the decisions have beenmade already for floral.
Every single decision that hasto be made when somebody passes.
We've already done it,including the pickup of her body
, Delaware and bringing it up.
No decisions have to be made.
Everything is done.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It's something creepy to talk about such a blessing.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
But I am so happy that she did that and and
because she did it I've set itup for my husband and I were
done Like if anything shouldhappen if anything should happen
.
We, I have three littlechildren.
So I'm like, if anything shouldhappen, we, I have three little
children.
So I'm like, if anything shouldhappen to me, it's already
taken care of.
No one has to worry aboutanything.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
We're already done Same with my husband.
You know, that is incredible.
My mom she didn't do anythinglike that, but she had
everything written out and sheinitially, when she did her last
will and testament, she had X'dout about the burial.
She said cremate me and thensigned her name next to it.
She changed her mind at thelast minute.
(29:09):
I don't know when this was done, but it was in her handwriting
and it, you know, was signed byher and I was like, oh my God,
mom, god, mom, and she.
I mean she had passwords, allkinds of things, that this is my
account, information forsavings, checking, retirement,
all this stuff.
(29:29):
So she had everything.
We didn't have to really doanything.
The only thing we had to do wasthe affidavit of heirship.
When someone dies and they havea will, one of the things that
you have to do if you don't wantto go through probate is submit
an affidavit of heirship forthe children in the family who
are proceeding their parents'death.
So we did that.
(29:50):
That's the only paperwork wereally had to do and we got the
proceeds from her estate veryquickly because of that estate.
Very quickly because of that.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
That's how my mother has set everything up and yeah,
I, I came home from doing allthat with her.
It was a little it's a littlebit strange to have to face it,
but because we've done it, Iknow like when, when the time
comes, like I can just focus onhonoring yeah, and the people
who love you.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
If it's you that passes, they can just take the
time they need to truly processthe loss.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And you know it's interesting even I know like
this is kind of like an offshootdiscussion, but people like you
said, like we plan for weddings, births, Yep, we pre-plan, we
hire people, like we really goto town for all these life
events, but for some reason andI think it's because we're all
scared to really think about it-yeah.
Once the this, nobody reallypreps.
(30:49):
People aren't prepping and, asI mentioned, like there's so the
funeral place that my mother isgoing to and they have this
vast network.
So even if I were to die inanother state, no if right, and
I was in a different state whenI passed and that's where I want
to be buried and everythingthey will just connect me with
(31:09):
another funeral parlor closer tome in their network and they
will transfer everything over tothat Like it's it's all
integrated to the point wherethere will be no problems, Like
we can really easily pivot, andthat I was shocked when he told
me about this.
I'm like when did this have?
Why isn't this being advertisedsomewhere?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
but it's because like where is it not?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
it should be talked about.
And even you know, youmentioned like your mother had
everything written down,including passwords and
everything like that.
I've actually given that quitea bit of thought on my side
because in preparation for myfamily, I handle all the
financials and everything.
So, like the deed, the housedeed, like the cars, like you
(31:49):
know, my husband has to knowwhere all that is.
It has to be packaged upbecause he's not in the day to
day with it, so he's not goingto really know.
And I thought about this andI'm like, oh my God, like I need
to not not just keep itorganized for myself, but I need
to keep it organized to pass itoff.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
For him.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, because and that's really what this is when
you think about it if you take astep back and you think about
it for yourself and the planningfor it, you're not just
planning it because of you,you're planning it to help your
family and if you think of itfrom that angle and if you're
listening to this it might soundagain it sounds a little crazy,
but if you're listening to thislike, this is important.
This is a significant life event.
(32:26):
We can't avoid this.
And I will say this like thepayments that the payment plan
that you know they set up, it'srelatively low, it's like 300.
What it's not?
That's why I'm like I was kindof mad that I didn't know about
it until now, and now I want totell people that.
So I'm like it's a low costkind of thing.
Just throw it in like anotherbill, start paying.
It's like insurance, it is.
(32:48):
That's exactly what it is.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
That's exactly what it is.
That's exactly what it is,because what a neat program.
Because think about the peoplewho are in a situation where
they may not be financially liketop heavy, where they may not
be financially like top heavyand they can slowly pay for Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Honestly, exactly, and I don't think people realize
, like how immensely expensivefuneral.
It can be really expensive andeven if you, honestly, like I,
was there looking at the optionsfor things and even on the
lower end it was very, it waspricey.
Like we're talking about$30,000, $20,000, like easily
just, and that's for the lessexpensive packages.
(33:28):
So to think about that, thatwas always the part that used to
give me anxiety, because Idon't have $30,000 lying around.
So, like if someone has, likeI'd be kind of stuck, I'd be
like, oh no, like what am Isupposed to do?
So it's a, it's a program thatI'm incredibly impressed with
and it is something that I dothink like we do need to prepare
, like we do need to talk moreabout it and, yeah, almost
(33:50):
normalize the discussion alittle bit.
The same way we're like planfor your child's birth, plan for
your weddings plan.
Yeah, you know you have to do it, at least have your ducks in a
row, some kind of way, right,right.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
So I'm in some capacity, in some capacity.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So that's something.
So it's a little bit easier andnot as complex.
Yeah, definitely.
So now your, your book is outand I want to put a link here
just to show like it's availableon Amazon.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
So and Barnes and Noble and book people.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Amazon, so, and Barnes and Noble and book people
, beautiful, wonderful, I'm like.
So I'm very happy that you didthis because I've had a.
I have had quite a few guestscome on the show that you know
have gone through traumaticevents, and it's almost every
single woman comes on and tellstheir story and you're one of
the ones that is taking this andeveryone across.
You're taking what you've gonethrough and you're sharing it
and I think in a way it will.
It will help to heal you, toknow that other people are
(34:48):
drawing from this.
putting your like personaltrauma onto paper and putting it
out into the world is doingsomething for you energetically,
and I think you probably feelthat I'm not sure if you feel it
.
Yet you do feel it.
I would think that you would,just because I have read so much
about what that could do foryou in this situation, to help
(35:10):
you heal through healing otherfolks.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yeah, it's.
It's been a true delight ofmine to be able to speak to so
many people on podcasts and justtell my story, because I don't
just talk about loss.
I talk about, you know, bodyimage issues.
I talk about trying to end mylife when I was 24.
I talk about being in a mentalfacility.
My mom had me committed becauseI tried to kill myself.
(35:35):
So these are things that Idon't take lightly, but it felt
so cathartic to get it out andin the hopes that I could help
someone else.
Oh, yay.
You're so sweet.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Oh my God, yes me too , and my husband gets really mad
at me because he's like enough,but I can't help it.
I am really excited to readyour book and, without giving
too much away the overarchingmessage from your book, what
(36:22):
would it be?
What is the big picture thatyou really want someone to take
your book and walk away with?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
The overarching theme is just give yourself grace, no
matter what it is that you'regoing through.
You have to be easy on yourself, because this life is hard, it
is so complex.
And dealing with the losses anddealing with just everything I
went through in my childhood thebullying, the craziness and all
of that made me who I am today.
(36:51):
If I hadn't given myself graceat some stage of my life, I
would not be where I am today.
It's just something that I feelis needed.
We're all human in this worldand it's something that I feel
is needed.
We're all human in this worldand it's something that I take
to heart.
Just the idea that you don'tconsider yourself enough,
because I went through that myentire life, the most of my 20s,
(37:14):
hell, some of my 30s.
I was just like why am I here?
Oh, my God, I suck, but reallyI would not be the person I am
today without all of thosetrials, without those
tribulations.
And just give yourself grace.
That's my message, that's it.
That's it.
I love that because I say thatquite a bit, I do.
(37:34):
You do Okay good.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I do.
I say it all the time because Iconsistently have found myself
in scenarios where I'm likebeating myself up and, like you
know, really coming down onmyself and for various reasons,
and it's not necessary.
I've gotten much better.
Starting at 37 to now.
(37:56):
I have gotten much better, butit took 37 years on this planet
for me to recycle and be likewait a minute, you're not doing
this right.
You're like beating yourself up.
I mean I would.
It was very real and I think alot of women go through that.
We don't allow grace and wedon't just acknowledge the fact.
Like look at, look at whatyou've done, like it's okay,
(38:17):
like you're not going to hit,you're not going to hit it out
of the park every single day,every single time.
Take it one day at a time.
Like it's okay, like you don'thave to be, you know, at the tip
of the top.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree.
So I'm very much lookingforward to reading your book.
I hope I.
I did see your website, so Iwant to bring that up to books
by the by Deandra um.
(38:38):
I saw that you have your sociallinked on there.
There's a contact area, so Iwant to pull that up and
encourage everyone to visit thatwebsite as well, because you'd
be able to have a direct accesslink and you can check out all
her other materials.
You can read everything abouther.
So thank you so much for comingon the show today.
I really, really appreciatethis chat.
And, jenny, thank you.
(38:58):
I'm thrilled that you're onthis journey.
I'm actually very excited tosee what you do next, because I
think that you are doingsomething next.
I haven't talked about that, butI have a feeling you are,
because I've got a sense herethat you are not done and
there's going to be a lot moreto come.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I'm very excited about it.
Yes, ma'am, you're predictingcorrectly, ma'am, you are.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Well, when you're ready, you come back to the show
, because I would love you comeback and we can talk about what
you're doing next, cause Ialready know.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
I already know.
Yes, yes, ma'am, yes, I willdefinitely be back and thank you
so much for the space and thankyou for the time.
You are awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Well, listeners, thank you for joining us today.
We greatly appreciate you.
You can check out the under hislinks.
Um, they'll be in the episodedescriptions and they're going
to push forward to the podcastas well.
So if you only caught some ofthe discussion today, you can
listen to the full recording onYouTube and then through the
podcast platform of your choice.
Thank you and take care, we'llcatch you on the next one.
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