April 20, 2025 • 46 mins
Reshma Kearney shares her heartbreaking journey of losing her husband to suicide in 2022 and how she navigated the difficult path of grief while raising three young children alone.
• Moving from Georgia to Washington State for a fresh start after Army life
• Making the difficult choice to tell her children the truth about their father's suicide
• Balancing her own grief while helping her children through theirs
• Using mindfulness practices to help each child process grief in their own way
• Finding her way back to herself while acknowledging she's fundamentally changed
• Creating a community through sharing her story on social media
• The importance of giving yourself grace during the grieving process
• Recognizing that despite best efforts, we can't always prevent suicide
• How sharing her experience helps give meaning to her suffering
• The stigma men face in seeking help for mental health issues
If you're interested in connecting with Reshma and learning more about grief support and mindfulness practices, you can find her on social media sharing her journey and building a supportive community for those experiencing similar loss.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, this is Steel Rose's podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I'm very pleased to introduceyou today to our guest, reshma
Carney.
She is a mother of three wholost her husband to suicide in
2022.
She found herself not only agrieving wife, but also a solo
(00:21):
parent to three grievingchildren.
She's here today to share herstory and her family's
experience to help others ontheir own grief journeys.
Reshma, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thank you, it's an honor to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So thank you for being on.
As I mentioned a few minutesago, I'm very happy to be
chatting with you today.
I would love for you to shareyour story with the listeners
and share your experience withthem.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So my grief journey began in 2022 when my husband,
sean, died by suicide.
We had just moved from Georgiato Washington State, where
forever was supposed to beginafter we separated from the Army
and the summer that we moved toWashington, we're happy.
(01:15):
The children were really happy.
We're excited about all thethings that we had been dreaming
about doing.
Once Sean got out of the armyand in September, I started to
see a shift in his behavior andhis management of his emotions,
and he had always dealt withdepression and anxiety over the
(01:38):
years.
So I assumed that this was justpart of a cycle and at the end
of September he took his ownlife and I found him and I, with
the help of others, family andfriends, decided to tell the
children the truth that day andit was a shock to all of us.
(02:01):
And when people asked aboutwhether or not I was surprised,
I would respond by saying that Iwas surprised that he went to
that point, got to that pointand made that decision, but I
wasn't surprised that he didn'twant to be in the world anymore,
and because of my experiencewith him and watching him
(02:25):
struggle with mental healthchallenges, and also because of
my experience, kind of pickingup the pieces of our life.
After this happened and nowhaving to take care of my own
mental health and the mentalhealth of our children, I've
gone to social media to share mystory and in doing that, I've
also started to create acommunity in which we all
(02:49):
support each other on our griefjourneys.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
My condolences, first and foremost because what going
through something like that Ihonestly can't imagine it.
I've had other people talk tome about this and I've just
experienced it from afar andeveryone always has said like,
regardless of the moment,everyone's always blindsided.
People are just shocked when ithappens.
(03:13):
A former guest that came on.
She was sharing how menopausalwomen are actually on the higher
range of suicide rates.
Women have the higher range inthat in the age range of
menopause is the highest suiciderate for women.
There's like a correlationthere because of the mental
shift and she was explaining tome that the push for her to get
(03:37):
help because she was spiralingmentally was somebody had.
You know.
It came up randomly and somebodyshared with her that their you
know relative took her own lifeand nobody knew what had
happened.
No one had any idea, because onthe outside, when you're
depressed and you're goingthrough something like that, the
(03:58):
likelihood that you're actuallyshowing what is really
happening is incredibly low.
You're not going to be walkingaround like that.
People are going to assumeyou're okay and this woman put
on this facade, probably for thesake of everybody else, and
then she just she couldn't takeit anymore and they didn't know
what had happened until theyfound her journals, and that's
(04:19):
when they knew.
So it's the loss I can'timagine.
And then I want to commend youfor being honest with your kids.
Well, I'm a little surprisedbecause I think that most people
wouldn't be Right, like I mean,I'm going to assume that most
(04:39):
people would be like you knowwhat?
I don't want to say anything,let's just make up something
else, like you know what?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I don't want to say anything.
Let's just make up somethingelse.
Yeah, of course I mean.
In that moment I didn't knowwhat to do and I was on the
phone with family asking themwhat I should do.
And ultimately, what helped memake my decision was the advice
of a volunteer chaplain who cameto the home from the police
(05:06):
department and he sat with meall morning and day until the
kids came home and we talked andhe had seen things like this
before and he had 30 years ofexperience.
So I trusted him and I askedhim what do I tell the kids?
I have no idea what to tellthem.
(05:26):
What do I even do?
Do I pull them out of school?
And he said, well, what's theirnormal routine?
And I said, well, today'spicture day, and they're in
school until 2.30 and then theywalk home.
And he said well, then you'regoing to let them do that.
They're going to do exactlywhat they would have done
normally and when they come home, you are going to introduce
them to me and you're going totell them that we need to talk
(05:49):
and I'm going to tell them thattheir dad died.
And in that moment I thought,well, why would you tell my kids
I'm their mom, I have to fixthis.
You know, as moms we want totake care of them, we want to
shield them, we want to explaineverything to them.
I couldn't believe that hewould suggest that, but then he
(06:13):
said if you tell them, you willalways be the person who gave
them the worst news of theirlives.
If I tell them, I'll be thatguy that came to the house that
one day and they never saw again.
And so I agreed, I thought thatwas fine, it made sense.
(06:34):
And then I asked him well, whatare you going to say?
And he said I'm going to tellthem that their dad passed away
today.
And I said okay, but they'regoing to.
They will want to know right.
How.
And he said I'm going to tellthem that he took his own life,
that he shot himself.
And I, just I, I I just startedthinking about years ahead,
(07:02):
like what is this going to do tomy kids?
How much damage is this goingto cause in this moment?
Saying these things to themright now, when they're seven,
eight and 10?
Wow, and I just something toldme to trust in him and I have no
(07:23):
regrets now.
I've seen in the last two and ahalf years so many moments in
which I would have had toexplain if we hadn't told them
the truth, and I would not besharing my story and helping
other people right now if I hadnot been honest with them.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So I'm glad that I was, but it was one of the
hardest things I've ever had todo.
You know, there's somethingalso, I think, to be said for
what you just said there thatthere would have been moments
where you would have had toexplain and it would have been
like reopening it, the do youknow?
I'm saying like it would havebeen like if you had held that
information back and waited andsaid like, oh, I have to wait
until they're older.
(08:12):
Like you know that I feel likethat would have eaten away at
you.
Like having to to harbor thatkind of a secret and then to
eventually have to tell themwould drive you probably crazy,
because you knew you would know.
And then you know, really, likekind of picking it apart, like
them knowing all this time thatyou kept it from them, that I
(08:33):
mean it's like a whole snowballof like everything that would
have been not right andwithholding that information.
I'm very, very much an advocateof not talking to my kids like
they're.
They're kids like I, they LikeI, they're kids Like I don't.
You know, there's certainthings obviously I'm not going
to talk with them about, but I'mvery upfront with them, and my
husband too.
We're very upfront with them.
So, so we have very like our.
(08:55):
My twins are seven and my sonis eight and they're very
articulate, like they will sitand have a whole big person
conversation with you, becausethat's how we talk with them.
And you know, on a lesserdegree, I'll use this as an
example.
They're what my son is in thirdand the girls are in second, and
(09:16):
my son wanted to stay home fromschool.
He was like kept botheringabout it and instead of just
saying like no, you have to go,like this with the rules and or
you know, whatever it is like,whatever parents normally say, I
said to him I was like, listen,like you have to go, because if
you don't go to school, you'regoing to fall behind in your
work, and if you fall behind inyour work, then you're going to
(09:37):
end up left behind and thenyou're going to be in the same
class as your sisters.
And that's how, that's how I,that's how I said it, cause I'm
like I don't, you're not goingto the rest of it, you're not
going to get, but if I tell youthat you're going to be stuck
with them, that's going to besomething that you're like all
right, I don't want to do that.
So I that's a whole other,different way, but like the fact
that you, you did take thismoment to be able to address it.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think so, and I think it also opens up so many
opportunities now to talk tothem about mental health and
depression, anxiety and suicide.
And I'm glad that we're able totalk openly with each other,
because what they've beenthrough the trauma and loss that
we've been through as a familyit has most certainly affected
(10:30):
our mental health and we aregoing to face challenges for the
rest of our lives.
And so I'm glad that we've beenopen with each other because I
feel that if they are reallystruggling, they will come to me
and they know they have theright words and they know what
(10:54):
their emotions feel like andthey know how to label them and
they have tools to talk about it, share and to give themselves
what they need to manage the bigemotions.
How?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
did you navigate grieving while also trying to
help your kids grieve?
It's a juggling act?
Yeah, and I'm asking because Iknow how hard I have it with
certain things and I'm like, howare you doing?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
How did you?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
do this hard.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I have it with certain things that I'm like how
are you doing?
How did you do this?
Yeah, In the very beginning,when Sean passed away.
I always say I think moms justgo into fight or flight mode
when there's crisis or tragedy.
And so that's what I did.
I went into fight or flightmode.
I did get up and out of bedevery morning, but I did it just
for the kids and I pushedthrough the day just for the
(11:49):
kids, got them connected withresources.
Therapists made sure they wereback in school, they had normal
social lives.
I honestly, in those earlymonths I didn't care if I'd
never be happy again.
Those early months I didn'tcare if I'd never be happy again
.
I remember thinking that I willprobably never be happy again,
(12:09):
I'll never find joy again, andthat's fine.
My job now is to take care ofthe kids.
But you do that for a fewmonths and you get burnt out,
You're resentful and this wholetime I'm trying to build this
positive, safe space for mychildren but I'm putting
negative energy into it.
So I had to pause and the kidsand I had a really solid
(12:32):
mindfulness practice in placebefore Sean passed away.
We actually started practicingmindfulness in the house during
the height of the pandemic, whenwe were quarantining and
homeschooling, and it was verymuch a part of my daily life and
I had let go of it a little bitafter he passed away.
And so when I realized that Iwasn't showing up as my best
(12:55):
self for the kids, I paused andI went back to some of those
practices.
So I did things like when Iwalked them to school, instead
of going back home to get to thepaperwork and phone calls, I
would call my dad and I wouldmake sure I walked at least 20
minutes and then I made sure Iwas going to the gym.
(13:16):
I got back to the gym, I gavemyself breaks during the day, I
reached out for help.
I was saying no to helpinitially and then I asked for
help.
I was saying no to helpinitially and then I I asked for
help, and all of those thingsmade such a big difference in
how I was showing up for them.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, I am the only reflection that I can make.
As you were talking, the onlything I could think through that
would be a through line for mewas when, you know, my mother
was mourning the loss of hermarriage, basically and not at
all the same thing.
So I don't want it to come.
You know, my mother wasmourning the loss of her
marriage, basically and not atall the same thing.
So I don't want it to come, youknow.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
But and I remember.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I remember she very much was.
She's not a I'm going toaddress this or face it kind of
person.
She's more of a I'm going tobrush it under the rug and just
keep moving forward because Idon't know how to deal with this
and for a really long time thatwas like just the.
That was the theme.
It was like just brush it tothe side and keep going and
(14:11):
unfortunately that's taken itstoll on her, you know.
To this, day she's in her herseventies now and I can sense
the difference in her soul that,like you know the person that
she was when I was growing up.
It's not the same personbecause she's kept so much in
that, you know, she wasn't ableto really bounce back after what
(14:32):
she went through.
That was the other thing Iactually wanted to compliment
you on was your energy when youcame on, like when we were just
chatting briefly in thebeginning.
Your energy is so lovely and itactually, like it made me feel
I said to you, as soon as youhopped on, I was like I just had
like a kind of call on the forsome, for something else, for
(14:52):
the podcast, and it brought myvibration down and, despite what
you've been through, yourenergy is very light and it
feels very good to talk with you.
So, thank you, you'vedefinitely.
The mindfulness practice hasdefinitely made a big impact.
And I want to say also andsometimes when I have these
calls where I do recordings withpeople, it's interesting
(15:14):
because when we're chatting, theguests will ultimately say
something that I'm like oh, Ithink I needed to hear that
today.
And the other thing that Ithink is really wonderful that
you did was you leaned intophysical fitness a bit, is what
it sounds like.
Yeah, I've, I've read, I'veread a lot on how you know
(15:37):
meditation doesn't have to justbe like, oh, sitting still and
meditating, that you can bemeditating, you know when you're
exercising, because that is animportant practice.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, I mean you can do walking meditations where
you're just walking and noticingcolors or you're checking in
with your five senses.
I think that's what scarespeople about meditation, because
they think they have to sit onthe floor cross-legged for 30
(16:11):
minutes or an hour.
And it's not like that at all.
I mean, even before thisrecording, sat down, took a few
deep breaths and just kind ofvisualize myself sitting in
across from you and talking, andthat was like three minutes,
you know, and it does.
Just breathing for one minutebrings your heart rate down,
(16:34):
lowers stress.
So, yeah, physical fitness is,it is part of mindfulness
practice.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And the other thing I wanted to comment on it.
I'm very, it's very interestingto me that you had already
built up a mindfulness practiceprior to this happening, and so
do you think it was easier foryour kids not the grieving at
all, because that is not easy atall, but like for them to start
(17:02):
to pick up on, like okay, Ithink that this is going to help
Because they were young, youknow.
Yeah, that in itself, likeunderstanding what happened,
accepting what happened and thenalso trying to do the
mindfulness, I mean for kids,did you see that there was
difficulty there because youalready had practiced, they were
(17:22):
okay with it.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I think for kids it's well.
I mean, look, even for me, whenSean passed away, I totally
forgot about my mindfulnesspractices.
You know, I just I let that go.
And so I think, same for thekids.
They didn't go to theirpractices.
They weren't thinking like thatbecause the pain was so deep
(17:48):
and the shock was so fresh.
But I knew what worked for themand I know each of my kids, and
so I was able to gently remindthem of the practices that
worked for them before.
And what's interesting is Ilearned that even with three
(18:10):
siblings you can't use the samepractice.
So, for example, my son, whenhe I think he kept most of his
emotions to himself, they cameout in anger and outbursts, and
I knew that.
And at night he would have ahard time sleeping.
So sometimes I would lie downwith him and I would just guide
(18:31):
his breathing and we'd breathein for four, hold, breathe out,
and that helped him.
And my middle one, she didn'tjust have a hard time falling
asleep, she had a hard time evenjust unwinding at the end of
the day.
For her she's quiet and doesn'tshare a lot, and so I brought
(18:56):
out a journal for her.
And also somebody had sent us akid's grief journal and I
encouraged her to use those andslowly she started doing that
and then at night when she wasfeeling unsettled, she would
pull her journal out and write.
And the nice thing about thatwas, with her permission, I
would look through her journalfrom time to time and I would
(19:17):
kind of get a better sense ofwhere she was mentally and
emotionally.
And my youngest one, she is afree spirit and she's the kid
who has to be outside barefootpicking up sticks and rocks.
So anytime I saw her light dima little bit, I knew I needed to
get out.
And so we were out all all thetime during the week for soccer
(19:41):
and other activities, and thenon the weekends I would make
sure that the four of us didsomething outdoors, even just a
walk outside or bike ride orhike, and that kind of helped
her.
You know ground.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I started teaching my kids mindfulness practices last
year, last summer, and it wasvery interesting, because I
meditate every morning.
Oh, lately it hasn't been everymorning because I explained like
I've been very busy with thenew work that I'm doing, but I
try very hard to meditate andjournal every single day and I
can feel the vast differencewhen I don't do that.
(20:19):
So it's.
And so I started teaching thekids about it now, because in my
head I'm like well, I didn'tlearn about this until I was
like 37.
Oh, they're little and you know, I'd have them all sit out and
meditate with me, or I'll tellthem like, even if they don't
want to meditate, I'm like well,this is quiet time, you have to
be silent, or what have you?
I'm waiting for them to get oldenough for the journaling,
(20:40):
because I'm very excited forthem to be able to lean into
that as a healing and catharticthing.
So now you've gone through thisexperience, your family has
gone through this experience,what made you decide that you
were okay to share your storywith others and what made you
decide that you wanted to helpother people by sharing your
story?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
When I lost Sean, I was on Instagram building a kids
mindfulness and movementbusiness, and the plan was, when
we separate from the army andmove to Washington state and got
settled, I was going to startmy own business, and so I was on
Instagram, and when he passedaway, I got off in Instagram
completely, and a year and ahalf later so this was last May,
(21:26):
which was mental healthawareness month I knew that I
wanted to get back onto socialmedia.
I knew I wanted to share mystory, but I didn't know when,
and it was during Mental HealthAwareness Month that I just felt
this calling to get onto socialmedia, and so it started with
just a post sharing my story,saying, hey, I know I've dropped
(21:50):
off, this is what's happened inour world and I'm going to
share my story here.
And after a couple months, Irealized that a lot of people
were resonating with what we'vebeen through, things that I've
said, things I've said aboutSean's mental health or my own,
(22:10):
and it made me realize that,even though a lot of people
don't talk about it or shareopenly, more people have gone
through things that I've gonethrough than I ever knew.
And so I thought this is good,I'm sharing my story and I think
it's speaking to people, andthen I started thinking back
(22:34):
about mindfulness and how thathas really helped us heal and
move forward, and so I thought Iwant to do that again.
I want to share that withpeople, and I want to combine
that with grief support, becauseI truly believe that that's
what got me to where I am today.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It's.
You know, it's very interestingto be able to interview
yourself and then all the otherguests that have come on,
because majority of if not allhonestly, it might actually be
all.
I don't even think it'smajority.
I think it's all.
It might actually be all.
(23:16):
I don't even think it'smajority, I think it's all.
Every woman that has come onthis podcast and shared their
story, there was some traumapoint and after the trauma point
came this thing that reallypushed them in a whole other
direction, and each trauma pointwas different, but at the end,
(23:36):
each one of these women haddecided to step forward and say
you know what I'm going to take,what I went through.
I'm actually going to helpother people and I'm not sure if
it's because of the mindsetthat you're currently in or
because of the vibrationalenergy that you're exuding at
this point, or because of thevibrational energy that you're
(23:57):
exuding at this point, but everysingle one of you have had this
moment and I can sense it inyou all that you very much are
like I need to share this andit's almost like a driving force
.
It sounds like a driving forceinside you.
That's like I see this.
People are resonating here Likelet me, let me go a step
further.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Let me try to help these people, and it's it's
incredible, honestly, to to beable to see that level of just
openness and willingness toshare your story in order to
help other people yeah, it'salmost like you go through so
(24:43):
much pain and shock and hellthat when you start healing, you
feel like you have to sharethat with everybody, because if
you don't, all of that is justfor nothing interesting you know
, it's interesting to hear yousay it in that sense too,
because it's almost almost likea greater purpose that was put
into your path.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
And you know the person I talked to before you
asked me.
She asked me she was like, well, what's the kind of a not so
nice way?
She kind of just said, well,what's your goal here?
Like what's the point of youdoing all this?
Meaning the podcast?
Like what am I even botheringfor?
And I just said I was like,well, I'm like it took me a
minute and I don't think I evensaid it to her the way that in
(25:24):
my head now I'm thinking aboutit now that I'm talking with you
.
But the whole goal here wasalways to connect women and to
let women share their stories.
Because, you know, even myselfpersonally, there has been
trauma and there has been thingsnot and not definitely not to
the severity that you'veexperienced but there have been
things that I got to a certainpoint where I was like I know
(25:46):
that I have a talent and I knowI want to use my voice and I
don't, and I know I want tobring women together.
How am I doing that?
And then thus came the podcast,and it came after like a very
like downward spiral and then anupward spiral, and so it's
interesting to hear you say that, because it it feels like this
was a purpose.
You know, like it feels to meas you're talking about what
(26:08):
you've been through the factthat you were doing mindfulness
practices beforehand, the factthat you were doing mindfulness
(26:29):
practices beforehand and thenthat was really what helped
guide you and your kids to beable to navigate the situation
is that?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
that's very I mean, it's almost I don't know how to
even say the words, but it'svery interesting to hear all
that.
Yeah, I always say that I feellike the universe prepared me
for this.
Yeah For having to navigatethis life without my husband.
And to to me, to comfort.
Somebody regretted sharing mystory or felt that I shouldn't
(27:19):
have started this journey, whatmay, so, not even a year ago?
How?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
have you.
You know, I well, let me saythis and then I'm gonna ask this
question.
I said to my husband the othernight we're just at night, we
will chat about just randomstuff and I said to him you know
, I'm like we've been togetherfor 15 years and I was like I
feel like the person I was whenwe met is so far gone from the
(27:44):
person I am today, and I meanthat in a good way, I mean that
in a positive way.
It feels like a whole otherlifetime ago.
And do you find yourself nowtoday standing with what you've
been through, thinking toyourself this is a whole
different Reshma.
Like this, you know, like thisis a whole other, like you must
(28:05):
process thoughts differently,like I mean, I can't imagine the
rewiring in your brain, like itmust've been astronomical.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, it's.
I don't feel like the sameperson at all.
In fact, when I see glimpses ofmy old self, like if I'm being
silly or I'm out withgirlfriends and I'm dancing at
the table in a restaurant, youknow I'll pause like, oh my gosh
, there she is, like I need tohold on to her, but she slips
(28:36):
away.
You know it does change you.
It changes your outlook on life.
It changes your outlook on theworld.
It changes your values, yourbeliefs.
It changes your personality,how you show up in the world.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I can see it's changed my kids, yeah yeah, I
don't think of it in a negativeway, but I do see how, yes, you
could see like the glimpses ofthe sillier, like carefree, like
, oh, the person who didn'treally have to carry this burden
, and then you have yourself.
Now.
It feels, though, that, becauseyou do get to see glimpses,
(29:14):
she's still there, she's stilljust waiting, she's still
healing, she's still trying todo her thing, and that she is
making her way back, and itmight not necessarily be ever
again the person that you were,but she will be somebody almost
like bright and new, because asI said when you came on the line
(29:37):
, like I almost had a sense oflike, oh okay, and it's so
strange to say that.
But as soon as you came on, Iwas like, oh good, all right,
Okay, here we go.
Like this is a good call, likethis is a good vibe, that we
hadn't even started talking yet.
That makes me happy to hear.
(30:03):
So, for for someone goingthrough this loss, you know what
is something that I mean.
You know the initial shock.
I can't even imagine how longthe initial shock takes.
It must be varying person toperson.
What would the advice be, orwhat's the guidance, for
somebody who is experiencing aloss like this?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I think what I would tell somebody who has gone
through a loss like this is togive yourself grace, because
when you go through a loss likethis, the range of emotions that
you feel are so intense and thegrief is so intense and
(30:42):
complicated just as much as theloss itself that if you don't
give yourself grace, you willconstantly be fighting a battle
that you'll never win.
And I think it's when I learnedthat and accepted that for
myself that you know, I wasnever going to find all the
(31:03):
answers that I was looking for,that this isn't my fault, that,
despite all the media sayingthat, you know, look for the
signs, the signs like you don'talways see the signs.
Yeah, and I now know that therewas nothing I could have done
(31:25):
to prevent this, and maybe if Ihad somehow stopped it from
happening that day, it probablywould have happened another time
.
And now that I've come to thatpeace in my mind, I'm able to
move forward.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, I think that's probably most people's immediate
responses I should have seen it, I should have known, I should
have done something.
And you did say a hard realityjust now.
Even if you had stopped it thatday and this is for folks
listening to even if you hadgotten in the gotten you know in
the way, that day it eventuallywould happen.
(32:03):
Because when someone is on thatpath, it's almost like that
they are on this path like it,it's almost inevitable.
Because if that's the goal, Iknow that a lot of people that
I've talked to have talked aboutthings of that nature saying
like I, if I could have donesomething.
But the reality is you reallydon't know, and unfortunately
(32:26):
you know there is no way to knowwhat somebody is going through
inside their head.
It's, it's just, it's just notpossible, possible, and you
can't be held responsible forwhat they're going through.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, and you can know I knew that Sean struggled
with depression and anxiety.
I knew that for years and everyyear there'd be a downward
cycle and I would lift him backup.
And as I lifted him back up, Iwould remind him that he needed
to talk to somebody or he neededto go to his doctor and see if
(33:02):
he could talk about meds.
I got him to go to yoga with me.
I encouraged him to journal.
We practiced gratitude atdinner.
He often didn't join in on that.
I tried to go for walks.
I tried to reduce, or encouragehim to reduce, his drinking.
I changed our diet sometimes.
(33:22):
I tried to do all these littlethings around him to help him,
but it was really hisresponsibility to go and get
help responsibility to go andget help.
(33:44):
I'm still trying to figure outwhat it is that women, how do I
put this?
I'm trying to figure out why itis that men don't talk to their
wives about their mental health, because in the last several
months I've had a couple of mentalk to me about their mental
health and they tell me theywon't talk to their wives
because their wives don'tunderstand.
(34:04):
And that's interesting to mebecause I then think about what
messages I might have beensending to Sean.
Was he trying to talk to me andI sent him similar messages
that I didn't understand?
I don't know, but I do know.
I asked him several times in themonths leading up to his death.
(34:27):
I did ask him how are you doing?
You know I'm noticing thesechanges, what is it?
And his responses would alwaysbe work, the new job.
You know, we had just movedacross the country.
So I thought, okay, these areall normal things to be stressed
about and once he gets a handleon these things, he'll be fine,
will be fine.
And I even asked him once if heever thought about harming
(34:51):
himself or ending his life andhe said that he and he's thought
about it, but that he wouldn'tdo it because he then thinks
about his wife and his children.
So I've thought about thatconversation many times since he
passed away and I asked myselfif I did the right thing and
(35:17):
believing him, you know.
Yeah believing him.
You know, yeah, you just neverknow.
You don't know.
He never gave up.
He worked very hard.
He was an orthopedic surgeon, alieutenant colonel in the army
had been through so much in hislife and pushed, pushed, pushed
and I never thought he wouldgive up in this ultimate way of
(35:38):
giving up.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
You know, I think you bring up something very
important there regardinghusbands talking to their wives,
and I actually think that thatis a pretty serious problem
across marriages and I'll evensay in my own, because there was
my husband had sent me there isthere are many instances where
it's like we're speakingdifferent languages.
(36:00):
There are many instances whereit's like we're speaking
different languages, likeentirely.
And you know, for example, Ihad shared with you that I had
to travel this week.
So I was intensely stressed outleading up to this week because
it was only a one dayturnaround, but it was going to
be like a 20 hour day, like itwas going to be really intense
and really grueling.
And I was really stressed outabout it because I'm like, well,
(36:23):
I try to prepare my householdas much as I can for my absence
and do everything that I wouldnormally do in a day, the day
before.
So you know, like the mom thingand I do this out of, I guess,
guilt in a way for leaving andyou know, wanting to say like,
oh, don't worry, everything, Istill took care of everything
(36:44):
even though I'm not here.
And then there's also theresidual stress of like I'm
still stressed out travelingbecause I'm not there.
And then I have everyone kindof giving me, like you know, the
sad eyes.
All the kids cried at somepoint.
I'm like I'm only going to begone, it's only gonna be like 12
hours that you're going to bewithout me, like I promised.
(37:04):
But you know, and leading up tothat, it was interesting
because the day before I wasleaving I was running around
running errands, like trying toget things done.
And, um, we, my husband and I,kept arguing with each other
because he's like, well, I'mtrying to be helpful, I'm like,
well, you're not, it's the wayyou're saying it.
And it was crazy because he wasactually trying to be helpful,
(37:27):
but I was so stressed that Icouldn't really hear the help.
I couldn't hear it Like I justcouldn't see it.
And there had been a priorinstance where he had sent me an
image and he had found itonline, and it was an image of a
man.
He was laying flat on top of acliff and he had his arm over
the side and he was holding ontohis wife's hand.
(37:49):
So the wife was dangling overthe cliff.
It was like a car, it was likea caricature.
So the wife is dangling overthe cliff, the husband was
laying up top and in between thehusband and wife there was a
little hole where a rattlesnakewas in there, and so, from the
top, the husband is holding thewife and he can't see the
rattlesnake.
And he's holding on to her andhe has a boulder on his back, so
(38:12):
the wife can't see the boulderon his back.
The husband can't see that therattlesnake is biting the wife's
arm, but they're holding on toeach other wife's arm, but
they're holding on to each other.
And it's such a powerful imageto me because, yes, you're
holding on, you're united toyour husband, but there are
things that you're going to gothrough that he is never going
to see or understand, and viceversa.
(38:33):
And as you were talking, thatimage popped into my head
because I'm like you were doingeverything that you thought like
, okay, well, this will behelpful, this will be helpful,
but the reality is you wouldhave never known what he was
really going through.
There is no way for you to knowthat.
And there, and anyone listeningto this, this podcast, if
you're, if you have someoneyou're concerned about, you know
(38:55):
, serious intervention is verymuch needed, and I know I can't
speak to it, so I want to leavethat to you, reshma, to give
guidance there.
But it's not something to justkind of be casual about either.
It is something that, ifthere's a serious issue, there
has to be some sort of majorintervention, I would imagine,
(39:16):
because you really don't knowhow far gone that person is you
really don't know how far gonethat person is.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, yeah, and I know that you can call the
suicide hotline or you can takesomeone into the emergency room,
but sometimes it's hard to knowwhat to do when you know
somebody's struggling and theywon't take that step with you.
So, for example, with myhusband, I couldn't lift him and
(39:46):
take him anywhere to get himhelp and you know, of course I
didn't know he was suicidal butto get him help for his
depression, anxiety, really, allI could do was encourage him.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, it's yeah there , this is not something that and
I think you said it earlier youhad to really come to grips
with this.
This onus was not on you and itreally is up to the person to
make the determination ifthey're going to move forward or
how they're going to handle it.
It really is up to theindividual person.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Right and I will say in terms of Sean and other men
out there who are struggling, Isay that it was man.
Especially for him, being anorthopedic surgeon in the army,
(40:45):
it was very difficult for him tospeak up about his mental
health and to ask for help, toask for rest or breaks.
I remember he would avoid atall costs asking a colleague to
cover for him for a break or fortravel and I know that he felt
(41:07):
like if he shared what he wasdealing with he would be looked
upon as weak or not doing hisjob.
So there are a lot of barriersthat we still have to break down
.
For men, yeah, and hopefully,hopefully, the more people share
and I've seen a lot of men'shealth groups, mental health
(41:28):
groups, advocating hopefully menwill feel safer and sharing and
asking for help.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, and honestly I think that that that right there
issue is a huge issue in itselfand I know I typically will
focus more so on you know whatwomen are going through and what
we have to deal with.
But the truth of it is there'sa lot of stigma for men raising
(41:56):
their hand and saying I needsome help here.
And you know, I know we feeltrapped sometimes and we don't
feel like we can ask for help,and that's a whole other bowl of
wax.
But there is absolutely astigma there for men to say I'm
having a problem, I need somehelp, and even to accept help
and to really like lean onsomeone else to help you get
(42:17):
through something difficult.
It takes a tremendous amountand I know my husband.
He has had some.
He has had his own mentalhealth issues and you know even
the way how far he has come.
I tell him all the time how hugeit is that he's come as far as
(42:39):
he has, because normally youknow from what he's had to deal
with, you need like massiveintervention you have to go away
to, you know like a rehab orwhat have you, and you know he's
been able to really manage iton his own and I'm, you know,
incredibly impressed.
So I tell him all the time I'mlike you know, what you've done
(43:00):
is you've turned your lifearound, so much so that it's
like you know, many other peoplewould have spiraled.
And he had successfully turnedand made it, made it through to
the other side, but he did it byhimself Because, again, like
every time I brought up, well,maybe you should tap into a
(43:20):
different resource, maybe youshould.
You know, I can call someone,we have insurance.
Like we figure this out.
It was always like no, no, no,I'm not going to do that, I
don't need to talk to anyone, itdoesn't work.
Every time I've done it itdoesn't make any sense.
You know, they gave me thewrong medication, this, that the
next thing, it alone.
Thankfully he's okay.
But there's quite a bit ofstigma for men reaching out and
(43:44):
asking for help and you're right, professionally too, depending
on what you do for a living yourhusband was a surgeon that's a
pretty big deal.
And for someone of that caliberto say I need help, I'm having
issues, I mean I can't evenimagine he must've been like,
say I need help, I'm havingissues, I mean I can't even
imagine he must've been likethere's no way that I can really
(44:12):
do that.
Yeah, reshma, for the wives,for a woman who has gone through
a loss and is just trying tonavigate her grief.
What do you think you would sayto somebody who's newly
entering this world and istrying to see the light at the
other side?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I would say hold on to hope, because healing is
possible.
But it's not easy, it doesn'tjust happen.
We have to put in the work andin order to do that, we have to
honor our grief, we have to sitwith our feelings, we have to
(44:50):
allow ourselves time to sit withour feelings and give ourselves
grace.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Like I said earlier, I have no idea why that keeps
happening.
Did you finish?
Speaker 2 (45:03):
your thought, I did yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
You did, how did you end it?
And I asked because I can edit.
I'm going to edit.
I have to edit them bothtogether anyway, but I can take
what you said and cut it thereand then layer in like a closing
okay, I said that basically, Iended with and give themselves,
(45:28):
give ourselves grace, like Imentioned earlier okay, I heard
that part.
I thought that was very good.
Yeah, this time it wasn't evenjust the internet, like my whole
entire, like my whole computer,like froze, and I had to
restart it.
Okay, but we're okay.
I got like I have the footagefrom, I have the audio from
earlier.
I grabbed all the audio fromnow.
I'm just looking at all of itbecause yours, I know.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
And when I left this, when I left the studio, waited
until it said it refinished yeah, no, that's what.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
I was looking at.
I'm like all right, I have theaudio.
I'm like this is like I can'tbelieve that happened two times
to you.
I'm so sorry.
I apologize, that's okay.
What would you like me to pointpeople towards for you Like?
Because normally I'll linkstuff in the description, so do
you want me to point them toyour Instagram?
Wait, I don't have to recordany of this.
Hold on one second Let.
Hello everybody, this is Steel Rose's podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I'm very pleased to introduceyou today to our guest, reshma
Carney.
She is a mother of three wholost her husband to suicide in
2022.
She found herself not only agrieving wife, but also a solo
(00:21):
parent to three grievingchildren.
She's here today to share herstory and her family's
experience to help others ontheir own grief journeys.
Reshma, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thank you, it's an honor to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So thank you for being on.
As I mentioned a few minutesago, I'm very happy to be
chatting with you today.
I would love for you to shareyour story with the listeners
and share your experience withthem.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So my grief journey began in 2022 when my husband,
sean, died by suicide.
We had just moved from Georgiato Washington State, where
forever was supposed to beginafter we separated from the Army
and the summer that we moved toWashington, we're happy.
(01:15):
The children were really happy.
We're excited about all thethings that we had been dreaming
about doing.
Once Sean got out of the armyand in September, I started to
see a shift in his behavior andhis management of his emotions,
and he had always dealt withdepression and anxiety over the
(01:38):
years.
So I assumed that this was justpart of a cycle and at the end
of September he took his ownlife and I found him and I, with
the help of others, family andfriends, decided to tell the
children the truth that day andit was a shock to all of us.
(02:01):
And when people asked aboutwhether or not I was surprised,
I would respond by saying that Iwas surprised that he went to
that point, got to that pointand made that decision, but I
wasn't surprised that he didn'twant to be in the world anymore,
and because of my experiencewith him and watching him
(02:25):
struggle with mental healthchallenges, and also because of
my experience, kind of pickingup the pieces of our life.
After this happened and nowhaving to take care of my own
mental health and the mentalhealth of our children, I've
gone to social media to share mystory and in doing that, I've
also started to create acommunity in which we all
(02:49):
support each other on our griefjourneys.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
My condolences, first and foremost because what going
through something like that Ihonestly can't imagine it.
I've had other people talk tome about this and I've just
experienced it from afar andeveryone always has said like,
regardless of the moment,everyone's always blindsided.
People are just shocked when ithappens.
(03:13):
A former guest that came on.
She was sharing how menopausalwomen are actually on the higher
range of suicide rates.
Women have the higher range inthat in the age range of
menopause is the highest suiciderate for women.
There's like a correlationthere because of the mental
shift and she was explaining tome that the push for her to get
(03:37):
help because she was spiralingmentally was somebody had.
You know.
It came up randomly and somebodyshared with her that their you
know relative took her own lifeand nobody knew what had
happened.
No one had any idea, because onthe outside, when you're
depressed and you're goingthrough something like that, the
(03:58):
likelihood that you're actuallyshowing what is really
happening is incredibly low.
You're not going to be walkingaround like that.
People are going to assumeyou're okay and this woman put
on this facade, probably for thesake of everybody else, and
then she just she couldn't takeit anymore and they didn't know
what had happened until theyfound her journals, and that's
(04:19):
when they knew.
So it's the loss I can'timagine.
And then I want to commend youfor being honest with your kids.
Well, I'm a little surprisedbecause I think that most people
wouldn't be Right, like I mean,I'm going to assume that most
(04:39):
people would be like you knowwhat?
I don't want to say anything,let's just make up something
else, like you know what?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I don't want to say anything.
Let's just make up somethingelse.
Yeah, of course I mean.
In that moment I didn't knowwhat to do and I was on the
phone with family asking themwhat I should do.
And ultimately, what helped memake my decision was the advice
of a volunteer chaplain who cameto the home from the police
(05:06):
department and he sat with meall morning and day until the
kids came home and we talked andhe had seen things like this
before and he had 30 years ofexperience.
So I trusted him and I askedhim what do I tell the kids?
I have no idea what to tellthem.
(05:26):
What do I even do?
Do I pull them out of school?
And he said, well, what's theirnormal routine?
And I said, well, today'spicture day, and they're in
school until 2.30 and then theywalk home.
And he said well, then you'regoing to let them do that.
They're going to do exactlywhat they would have done
normally and when they come home, you are going to introduce
them to me and you're going totell them that we need to talk
(05:49):
and I'm going to tell them thattheir dad died.
And in that moment I thought,well, why would you tell my kids
I'm their mom, I have to fixthis.
You know, as moms we want totake care of them, we want to
shield them, we want to explaineverything to them.
I couldn't believe that hewould suggest that, but then he
(06:13):
said if you tell them, you willalways be the person who gave
them the worst news of theirlives.
If I tell them, I'll be thatguy that came to the house that
one day and they never saw again.
And so I agreed, I thought thatwas fine, it made sense.
(06:34):
And then I asked him well, whatare you going to say?
And he said I'm going to tellthem that their dad passed away
today.
And I said okay, but they'regoing to.
They will want to know right.
How.
And he said I'm going to tellthem that he took his own life,
that he shot himself.
And I, just I, I I just startedthinking about years ahead,
(07:02):
like what is this going to do tomy kids?
How much damage is this goingto cause in this moment?
Saying these things to themright now, when they're seven,
eight and 10?
Wow, and I just something toldme to trust in him and I have no
(07:23):
regrets now.
I've seen in the last two and ahalf years so many moments in
which I would have had toexplain if we hadn't told them
the truth, and I would not besharing my story and helping
other people right now if I hadnot been honest with them.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So I'm glad that I was, but it was one of the
hardest things I've ever had todo.
You know, there's somethingalso, I think, to be said for
what you just said there thatthere would have been moments
where you would have had toexplain and it would have been
like reopening it, the do youknow?
I'm saying like it would havebeen like if you had held that
information back and waited andsaid like, oh, I have to wait
until they're older.
(08:12):
Like you know that I feel likethat would have eaten away at
you.
Like having to to harbor thatkind of a secret and then to
eventually have to tell themwould drive you probably crazy,
because you knew you would know.
And then you know, really, likekind of picking it apart, like
them knowing all this time thatyou kept it from them, that I
(08:33):
mean it's like a whole snowballof like everything that would
have been not right andwithholding that information.
I'm very, very much an advocateof not talking to my kids like
they're.
They're kids like I, they LikeI, they're kids Like I don't.
You know, there's certainthings obviously I'm not going
to talk with them about, but I'mvery upfront with them, and my
husband too.
We're very upfront with them.
So, so we have very like our.
(08:55):
My twins are seven and my sonis eight and they're very
articulate, like they will sitand have a whole big person
conversation with you, becausethat's how we talk with them.
And you know, on a lesserdegree, I'll use this as an
example.
They're what my son is in thirdand the girls are in second, and
(09:16):
my son wanted to stay home fromschool.
He was like kept botheringabout it and instead of just
saying like no, you have to go,like this with the rules and or
you know, whatever it is like,whatever parents normally say, I
said to him I was like, listen,like you have to go, because if
you don't go to school, you'regoing to fall behind in your
work, and if you fall behind inyour work, then you're going to
(09:37):
end up left behind and thenyou're going to be in the same
class as your sisters.
And that's how, that's how I,that's how I said it, cause I'm
like I don't, you're not goingto the rest of it, you're not
going to get, but if I tell youthat you're going to be stuck
with them, that's going to besomething that you're like all
right, I don't want to do that.
So I that's a whole other,different way, but like the fact
that you, you did take thismoment to be able to address it.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think so, and I think it also opens up so many
opportunities now to talk tothem about mental health and
depression, anxiety and suicide.
And I'm glad that we're able totalk openly with each other,
because what they've beenthrough the trauma and loss that
we've been through as a familyit has most certainly affected
(10:30):
our mental health and we aregoing to face challenges for the
rest of our lives.
And so I'm glad that we've beenopen with each other because I
feel that if they are reallystruggling, they will come to me
and they know they have theright words and they know what
(10:54):
their emotions feel like andthey know how to label them and
they have tools to talk about it, share and to give themselves
what they need to manage the bigemotions.
How?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
did you navigate grieving while also trying to
help your kids grieve?
It's a juggling act?
Yeah, and I'm asking because Iknow how hard I have it with
certain things and I'm like, howare you doing?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
How did you?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
do this hard.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I have it with certain things that I'm like how
are you doing?
How did you do this?
Yeah, In the very beginning,when Sean passed away.
I always say I think moms justgo into fight or flight mode
when there's crisis or tragedy.
And so that's what I did.
I went into fight or flightmode.
I did get up and out of bedevery morning, but I did it just
for the kids and I pushedthrough the day just for the
(11:49):
kids, got them connected withresources.
Therapists made sure they wereback in school, they had normal
social lives.
I honestly, in those earlymonths I didn't care if I'd
never be happy again.
Those early months I didn'tcare if I'd never be happy again
.
I remember thinking that I willprobably never be happy again,
(12:09):
I'll never find joy again, andthat's fine.
My job now is to take care ofthe kids.
But you do that for a fewmonths and you get burnt out,
You're resentful and this wholetime I'm trying to build this
positive, safe space for mychildren but I'm putting
negative energy into it.
So I had to pause and the kidsand I had a really solid
(12:32):
mindfulness practice in placebefore Sean passed away.
We actually started practicingmindfulness in the house during
the height of the pandemic, whenwe were quarantining and
homeschooling, and it was verymuch a part of my daily life and
I had let go of it a little bitafter he passed away.
And so when I realized that Iwasn't showing up as my best
(12:55):
self for the kids, I paused andI went back to some of those
practices.
So I did things like when Iwalked them to school, instead
of going back home to get to thepaperwork and phone calls, I
would call my dad and I wouldmake sure I walked at least 20
minutes and then I made sure Iwas going to the gym.
(13:16):
I got back to the gym, I gavemyself breaks during the day, I
reached out for help.
I was saying no to helpinitially and then I asked for
help.
I was saying no to helpinitially and then I I asked for
help, and all of those thingsmade such a big difference in
how I was showing up for them.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, I am the only reflection that I can make.
As you were talking, the onlything I could think through that
would be a through line for mewas when, you know, my mother
was mourning the loss of hermarriage, basically and not at
all the same thing.
So I don't want it to come.
You know, my mother wasmourning the loss of her
marriage, basically and not atall the same thing.
So I don't want it to come, youknow.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
But and I remember.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I remember she very much was.
She's not a I'm going toaddress this or face it kind of
person.
She's more of a I'm going tobrush it under the rug and just
keep moving forward because Idon't know how to deal with this
and for a really long time thatwas like just the.
That was the theme.
It was like just brush it tothe side and keep going and
(14:11):
unfortunately that's taken itstoll on her, you know.
To this, day she's in her herseventies now and I can sense
the difference in her soul that,like you know the person that
she was when I was growing up.
It's not the same personbecause she's kept so much in
that, you know, she wasn't ableto really bounce back after what
(14:32):
she went through.
That was the other thing Iactually wanted to compliment
you on was your energy when youcame on, like when we were just
chatting briefly in thebeginning.
Your energy is so lovely and itactually, like it made me feel
I said to you, as soon as youhopped on, I was like I just had
like a kind of call on the forsome, for something else, for
(14:52):
the podcast, and it brought myvibration down and, despite what
you've been through, yourenergy is very light and it
feels very good to talk with you.
So, thank you, you'vedefinitely.
The mindfulness practice hasdefinitely made a big impact.
And I want to say also andsometimes when I have these
calls where I do recordings withpeople, it's interesting
(15:14):
because when we're chatting, theguests will ultimately say
something that I'm like oh, Ithink I needed to hear that
today.
And the other thing that Ithink is really wonderful that
you did was you leaned intophysical fitness a bit, is what
it sounds like.
Yeah, I've, I've read, I'veread a lot on how you know
(15:37):
meditation doesn't have to justbe like, oh, sitting still and
meditating, that you can bemeditating, you know when you're
exercising, because that is animportant practice.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, I mean you can do walking meditations where
you're just walking and noticingcolors or you're checking in
with your five senses.
I think that's what scarespeople about meditation, because
they think they have to sit onthe floor cross-legged for 30
(16:11):
minutes or an hour.
And it's not like that at all.
I mean, even before thisrecording, sat down, took a few
deep breaths and just kind ofvisualize myself sitting in
across from you and talking, andthat was like three minutes,
you know, and it does.
Just breathing for one minutebrings your heart rate down,
(16:34):
lowers stress.
So, yeah, physical fitness is,it is part of mindfulness
practice.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And the other thing I wanted to comment on it.
I'm very, it's very interestingto me that you had already
built up a mindfulness practiceprior to this happening, and so
do you think it was easier foryour kids not the grieving at
all, because that is not easy atall, but like for them to start
(17:02):
to pick up on, like okay, Ithink that this is going to help
Because they were young, youknow.
Yeah, that in itself, likeunderstanding what happened,
accepting what happened and thenalso trying to do the
mindfulness, I mean for kids,did you see that there was
difficulty there because youalready had practiced, they were
(17:22):
okay with it.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I think for kids it's well.
I mean, look, even for me, whenSean passed away, I totally
forgot about my mindfulnesspractices.
You know, I just I let that go.
And so I think, same for thekids.
They didn't go to theirpractices.
They weren't thinking like thatbecause the pain was so deep
(17:48):
and the shock was so fresh.
But I knew what worked for themand I know each of my kids, and
so I was able to gently remindthem of the practices that
worked for them before.
And what's interesting is Ilearned that even with three
(18:10):
siblings you can't use the samepractice.
So, for example, my son, whenhe I think he kept most of his
emotions to himself, they cameout in anger and outbursts, and
I knew that.
And at night he would have ahard time sleeping.
So sometimes I would lie downwith him and I would just guide
(18:31):
his breathing and we'd breathein for four, hold, breathe out,
and that helped him.
And my middle one, she didn'tjust have a hard time falling
asleep, she had a hard time evenjust unwinding at the end of
the day.
For her she's quiet and doesn'tshare a lot, and so I brought
(18:56):
out a journal for her.
And also somebody had sent us akid's grief journal and I
encouraged her to use those andslowly she started doing that
and then at night when she wasfeeling unsettled, she would
pull her journal out and write.
And the nice thing about thatwas, with her permission, I
would look through her journalfrom time to time and I would
(19:17):
kind of get a better sense ofwhere she was mentally and
emotionally.
And my youngest one, she is afree spirit and she's the kid
who has to be outside barefootpicking up sticks and rocks.
So anytime I saw her light dima little bit, I knew I needed to
get out.
And so we were out all all thetime during the week for soccer
(19:41):
and other activities, and thenon the weekends I would make
sure that the four of us didsomething outdoors, even just a
walk outside or bike ride orhike, and that kind of helped
her.
You know ground.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I started teaching my kids mindfulness practices last
year, last summer, and it wasvery interesting, because I
meditate every morning.
Oh, lately it hasn't been everymorning because I explained like
I've been very busy with thenew work that I'm doing, but I
try very hard to meditate andjournal every single day and I
can feel the vast differencewhen I don't do that.
(20:19):
So it's.
And so I started teaching thekids about it now, because in my
head I'm like well, I didn'tlearn about this until I was
like 37.
Oh, they're little and you know, I'd have them all sit out and
meditate with me, or I'll tellthem like, even if they don't
want to meditate, I'm like well,this is quiet time, you have to
be silent, or what have you?
I'm waiting for them to get oldenough for the journaling,
(20:40):
because I'm very excited forthem to be able to lean into
that as a healing and catharticthing.
So now you've gone through thisexperience, your family has
gone through this experience,what made you decide that you
were okay to share your storywith others and what made you
decide that you wanted to helpother people by sharing your
story?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
When I lost Sean, I was on Instagram building a kids
mindfulness and movementbusiness, and the plan was, when
we separate from the army andmove to Washington state and got
settled, I was going to startmy own business, and so I was on
Instagram, and when he passedaway, I got off in Instagram
completely, and a year and ahalf later so this was last May,
(21:26):
which was mental healthawareness month I knew that I
wanted to get back onto socialmedia.
I knew I wanted to share mystory, but I didn't know when,
and it was during Mental HealthAwareness Month that I just felt
this calling to get onto socialmedia, and so it started with
just a post sharing my story,saying, hey, I know I've dropped
(21:50):
off, this is what's happened inour world and I'm going to
share my story here.
And after a couple months, Irealized that a lot of people
were resonating with what we'vebeen through, things that I've
said, things I've said aboutSean's mental health or my own,
(22:10):
and it made me realize that,even though a lot of people
don't talk about it or shareopenly, more people have gone
through things that I've gonethrough than I ever knew.
And so I thought this is good,I'm sharing my story and I think
it's speaking to people, andthen I started thinking back
(22:34):
about mindfulness and how thathas really helped us heal and
move forward, and so I thought Iwant to do that again.
I want to share that withpeople, and I want to combine
that with grief support, becauseI truly believe that that's
what got me to where I am today.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It's.
You know, it's very interestingto be able to interview
yourself and then all the otherguests that have come on,
because majority of if not allhonestly, it might actually be
all.
I don't even think it'smajority.
I think it's all.
It might actually be all.
(23:16):
I don't even think it'smajority, I think it's all.
Every woman that has come onthis podcast and shared their
story, there was some traumapoint and after the trauma point
came this thing that reallypushed them in a whole other
direction, and each trauma pointwas different, but at the end,
(23:36):
each one of these women haddecided to step forward and say
you know what I'm going to take,what I went through.
I'm actually going to helpother people and I'm not sure if
it's because of the mindsetthat you're currently in or
because of the vibrationalenergy that you're exuding at
this point, or because of thevibrational energy that you're
(23:57):
exuding at this point, but everysingle one of you have had this
moment and I can sense it inyou all that you very much are
like I need to share this andit's almost like a driving force
.
It sounds like a driving forceinside you.
That's like I see this.
People are resonating here Likelet me, let me go a step
further.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Let me try to help these people, and it's it's
incredible, honestly, to to beable to see that level of just
openness and willingness toshare your story in order to
help other people yeah, it'salmost like you go through so
(24:43):
much pain and shock and hellthat when you start healing, you
feel like you have to sharethat with everybody, because if
you don't, all of that is justfor nothing interesting you know
, it's interesting to hear yousay it in that sense too,
because it's almost almost likea greater purpose that was put
into your path.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
And you know the person I talked to before you
asked me.
She asked me she was like, well, what's the kind of a not so
nice way?
She kind of just said, well,what's your goal here?
Like what's the point of youdoing all this?
Meaning the podcast?
Like what am I even botheringfor?
And I just said I was like,well, I'm like it took me a
minute and I don't think I evensaid it to her the way that in
(25:24):
my head now I'm thinking aboutit now that I'm talking with you
.
But the whole goal here wasalways to connect women and to
let women share their stories.
Because, you know, even myselfpersonally, there has been
trauma and there has been thingsnot and not definitely not to
the severity that you'veexperienced but there have been
things that I got to a certainpoint where I was like I know
(25:46):
that I have a talent and I knowI want to use my voice and I
don't, and I know I want tobring women together.
How am I doing that?
And then thus came the podcast,and it came after like a very
like downward spiral and then anupward spiral, and so it's
interesting to hear you say that, because it it feels like this
was a purpose.
You know, like it feels to meas you're talking about what
(26:08):
you've been through the factthat you were doing mindfulness
practices beforehand, the factthat you were doing mindfulness
(26:29):
practices beforehand and thenthat was really what helped
guide you and your kids to beable to navigate the situation
is that?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
that's very I mean, it's almost I don't know how to
even say the words, but it'svery interesting to hear all
that.
Yeah, I always say that I feellike the universe prepared me
for this.
Yeah For having to navigatethis life without my husband.
And to to me, to comfort.
Somebody regretted sharing mystory or felt that I shouldn't
(27:19):
have started this journey, whatmay, so, not even a year ago?
How?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
have you.
You know, I well, let me saythis and then I'm gonna ask this
question.
I said to my husband the othernight we're just at night, we
will chat about just randomstuff and I said to him you know
, I'm like we've been togetherfor 15 years and I was like I
feel like the person I was whenwe met is so far gone from the
(27:44):
person I am today, and I meanthat in a good way, I mean that
in a positive way.
It feels like a whole otherlifetime ago.
And do you find yourself nowtoday standing with what you've
been through, thinking toyourself this is a whole
different Reshma.
Like this, you know, like thisis a whole other, like you must
(28:05):
process thoughts differently,like I mean, I can't imagine the
rewiring in your brain, like itmust've been astronomical.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, it's.
I don't feel like the sameperson at all.
In fact, when I see glimpses ofmy old self, like if I'm being
silly or I'm out withgirlfriends and I'm dancing at
the table in a restaurant, youknow I'll pause like, oh my gosh
, there she is, like I need tohold on to her, but she slips
(28:36):
away.
You know it does change you.
It changes your outlook on life.
It changes your outlook on theworld.
It changes your values, yourbeliefs.
It changes your personality,how you show up in the world.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I can see it's changed my kids, yeah yeah, I
don't think of it in a negativeway, but I do see how, yes, you
could see like the glimpses ofthe sillier, like carefree, like
, oh, the person who didn'treally have to carry this burden
, and then you have yourself.
Now.
It feels, though, that, becauseyou do get to see glimpses,
(29:14):
she's still there, she's stilljust waiting, she's still
healing, she's still trying todo her thing, and that she is
making her way back, and itmight not necessarily be ever
again the person that you were,but she will be somebody almost
like bright and new, because asI said when you came on the line
(29:37):
, like I almost had a sense oflike, oh okay, and it's so
strange to say that.
But as soon as you came on, Iwas like, oh good, all right,
Okay, here we go.
Like this is a good call, likethis is a good vibe, that we
hadn't even started talking yet.
That makes me happy to hear.
(30:03):
So, for for someone goingthrough this loss, you know what
is something that I mean.
You know the initial shock.
I can't even imagine how longthe initial shock takes.
It must be varying person toperson.
What would the advice be, orwhat's the guidance, for
somebody who is experiencing aloss like this?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I think what I would tell somebody who has gone
through a loss like this is togive yourself grace, because
when you go through a loss likethis, the range of emotions that
you feel are so intense and thegrief is so intense and
(30:42):
complicated just as much as theloss itself that if you don't
give yourself grace, you willconstantly be fighting a battle
that you'll never win.
And I think it's when I learnedthat and accepted that for
myself that you know, I wasnever going to find all the
(31:03):
answers that I was looking for,that this isn't my fault, that,
despite all the media sayingthat, you know, look for the
signs, the signs like you don'talways see the signs.
Yeah, and I now know that therewas nothing I could have done
(31:25):
to prevent this, and maybe if Ihad somehow stopped it from
happening that day, it probablywould have happened another time
.
And now that I've come to thatpeace in my mind, I'm able to
move forward.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, I think that's probably most people's immediate
responses I should have seen it, I should have known, I should
have done something.
And you did say a hard realityjust now.
Even if you had stopped it thatday and this is for folks
listening to even if you hadgotten in the gotten you know in
the way, that day it eventuallywould happen.
(32:03):
Because when someone is on thatpath, it's almost like that
they are on this path like it,it's almost inevitable.
Because if that's the goal, Iknow that a lot of people that
I've talked to have talked aboutthings of that nature saying
like I, if I could have donesomething.
But the reality is you reallydon't know, and unfortunately
(32:26):
you know there is no way to knowwhat somebody is going through
inside their head.
It's, it's just, it's just notpossible, possible, and you
can't be held responsible forwhat they're going through.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, and you can know I knew that Sean struggled
with depression and anxiety.
I knew that for years and everyyear there'd be a downward
cycle and I would lift him backup.
And as I lifted him back up, Iwould remind him that he needed
to talk to somebody or he neededto go to his doctor and see if
(33:02):
he could talk about meds.
I got him to go to yoga with me.
I encouraged him to journal.
We practiced gratitude atdinner.
He often didn't join in on that.
I tried to go for walks.
I tried to reduce, or encouragehim to reduce, his drinking.
I changed our diet sometimes.
(33:22):
I tried to do all these littlethings around him to help him,
but it was really hisresponsibility to go and get
help responsibility to go andget help.
(33:44):
I'm still trying to figure outwhat it is that women, how do I
put this?
I'm trying to figure out why itis that men don't talk to their
wives about their mental health, because in the last several
months I've had a couple of mentalk to me about their mental
health and they tell me theywon't talk to their wives
because their wives don'tunderstand.
(34:04):
And that's interesting to mebecause I then think about what
messages I might have beensending to Sean.
Was he trying to talk to me andI sent him similar messages
that I didn't understand?
I don't know, but I do know.
I asked him several times in themonths leading up to his death.
(34:27):
I did ask him how are you doing?
You know I'm noticing thesechanges, what is it?
And his responses would alwaysbe work, the new job.
You know, we had just movedacross the country.
So I thought, okay, these areall normal things to be stressed
about and once he gets a handleon these things, he'll be fine,
will be fine.
And I even asked him once if heever thought about harming
(34:51):
himself or ending his life andhe said that he and he's thought
about it, but that he wouldn'tdo it because he then thinks
about his wife and his children.
So I've thought about thatconversation many times since he
passed away and I asked myselfif I did the right thing and
(35:17):
believing him, you know.
Yeah believing him.
You know, yeah, you just neverknow.
You don't know.
He never gave up.
He worked very hard.
He was an orthopedic surgeon, alieutenant colonel in the army
had been through so much in hislife and pushed, pushed, pushed
and I never thought he wouldgive up in this ultimate way of
(35:38):
giving up.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
You know, I think you bring up something very
important there regardinghusbands talking to their wives,
and I actually think that thatis a pretty serious problem
across marriages and I'll evensay in my own, because there was
my husband had sent me there isthere are many instances where
it's like we're speakingdifferent languages.
(36:00):
There are many instances whereit's like we're speaking
different languages, likeentirely.
And you know, for example, Ihad shared with you that I had
to travel this week.
So I was intensely stressed outleading up to this week because
it was only a one dayturnaround, but it was going to
be like a 20 hour day, like itwas going to be really intense
and really grueling.
And I was really stressed outabout it because I'm like, well,
(36:23):
I try to prepare my householdas much as I can for my absence
and do everything that I wouldnormally do in a day, the day
before.
So you know, like the mom thingand I do this out of, I guess,
guilt in a way for leaving andyou know, wanting to say like,
oh, don't worry, everything, Istill took care of everything
(36:44):
even though I'm not here.
And then there's also theresidual stress of like I'm
still stressed out travelingbecause I'm not there.
And then I have everyone kindof giving me, like you know, the
sad eyes.
All the kids cried at somepoint.
I'm like I'm only going to begone, it's only gonna be like 12
hours that you're going to bewithout me, like I promised.
(37:04):
But you know, and leading up tothat, it was interesting
because the day before I wasleaving I was running around
running errands, like trying toget things done.
And, um, we, my husband and I,kept arguing with each other
because he's like, well, I'mtrying to be helpful, I'm like,
well, you're not, it's the wayyou're saying it.
And it was crazy because he wasactually trying to be helpful,
(37:27):
but I was so stressed that Icouldn't really hear the help.
I couldn't hear it Like I justcouldn't see it.
And there had been a priorinstance where he had sent me an
image and he had found itonline, and it was an image of a
man.
He was laying flat on top of acliff and he had his arm over
the side and he was holding ontohis wife's hand.
(37:49):
So the wife was dangling overthe cliff.
It was like a car, it was likea caricature.
So the wife is dangling overthe cliff, the husband was
laying up top and in between thehusband and wife there was a
little hole where a rattlesnakewas in there, and so, from the
top, the husband is holding thewife and he can't see the
rattlesnake.
And he's holding on to her andhe has a boulder on his back, so
(38:12):
the wife can't see the boulderon his back.
The husband can't see that therattlesnake is biting the wife's
arm, but they're holding on toeach other wife's arm, but
they're holding on to each other.
And it's such a powerful imageto me because, yes, you're
holding on, you're united toyour husband, but there are
things that you're going to gothrough that he is never going
to see or understand, and viceversa.
(38:33):
And as you were talking, thatimage popped into my head
because I'm like you were doingeverything that you thought like
, okay, well, this will behelpful, this will be helpful,
but the reality is you wouldhave never known what he was
really going through.
There is no way for you to knowthat.
And there, and anyone listeningto this, this podcast, if
you're, if you have someoneyou're concerned about, you know
(38:55):
, serious intervention is verymuch needed, and I know I can't
speak to it, so I want to leavethat to you, reshma, to give
guidance there.
But it's not something to justkind of be casual about either.
It is something that, ifthere's a serious issue, there
has to be some sort of majorintervention, I would imagine,
(39:16):
because you really don't knowhow far gone that person is you
really don't know how far gonethat person is.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, yeah, and I know that you can call the
suicide hotline or you can takesomeone into the emergency room,
but sometimes it's hard to knowwhat to do when you know
somebody's struggling and theywon't take that step with you.
So, for example, with myhusband, I couldn't lift him and
(39:46):
take him anywhere to get himhelp and you know, of course I
didn't know he was suicidal butto get him help for his
depression, anxiety, really, allI could do was encourage him.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, it's yeah there , this is not something that and
I think you said it earlier youhad to really come to grips
with this.
This onus was not on you and itreally is up to the person to
make the determination ifthey're going to move forward or
how they're going to handle it.
It really is up to theindividual person.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Right and I will say in terms of Sean and other men
out there who are struggling, Isay that it was man.
Especially for him, being anorthopedic surgeon in the army,
(40:45):
it was very difficult for him tospeak up about his mental
health and to ask for help, toask for rest or breaks.
I remember he would avoid atall costs asking a colleague to
cover for him for a break or fortravel and I know that he felt
(41:07):
like if he shared what he wasdealing with he would be looked
upon as weak or not doing hisjob.
So there are a lot of barriersthat we still have to break down
.
For men, yeah, and hopefully,hopefully, the more people share
and I've seen a lot of men'shealth groups, mental health
(41:28):
groups, advocating hopefully menwill feel safer and sharing and
asking for help.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, and honestly I think that that that right there
issue is a huge issue in itselfand I know I typically will
focus more so on you know whatwomen are going through and what
we have to deal with.
But the truth of it is there'sa lot of stigma for men raising
(41:56):
their hand and saying I needsome help here.
And you know, I know we feeltrapped sometimes and we don't
feel like we can ask for help,and that's a whole other bowl of
wax.
But there is absolutely astigma there for men to say I'm
having a problem, I need somehelp, and even to accept help
and to really like lean onsomeone else to help you get
(42:17):
through something difficult.
It takes a tremendous amountand I know my husband.
He has had some.
He has had his own mentalhealth issues and you know even
the way how far he has come.
I tell him all the time how hugeit is that he's come as far as
(42:39):
he has, because normally youknow from what he's had to deal
with, you need like massiveintervention you have to go away
to, you know like a rehab orwhat have you, and you know he's
been able to really manage iton his own and I'm, you know,
incredibly impressed.
So I tell him all the time I'mlike you know, what you've done
(43:00):
is you've turned your lifearound, so much so that it's
like you know, many other peoplewould have spiraled.
And he had successfully turnedand made it, made it through to
the other side, but he did it byhimself Because, again, like
every time I brought up, well,maybe you should tap into a
(43:20):
different resource, maybe youshould.
You know, I can call someone,we have insurance.
Like we figure this out.
It was always like no, no, no,I'm not going to do that, I
don't need to talk to anyone, itdoesn't work.
Every time I've done it itdoesn't make any sense.
You know, they gave me thewrong medication, this, that the
next thing, it alone.
Thankfully he's okay.
But there's quite a bit ofstigma for men reaching out and
(43:44):
asking for help and you're right, professionally too, depending
on what you do for a living yourhusband was a surgeon that's a
pretty big deal.
And for someone of that caliberto say I need help, I'm having
issues, I mean I can't evenimagine he must've been like,
say I need help, I'm havingissues, I mean I can't even
imagine he must've been likethere's no way that I can really
(44:12):
do that.
Yeah, reshma, for the wives,for a woman who has gone through
a loss and is just trying tonavigate her grief.
What do you think you would sayto somebody who's newly
entering this world and istrying to see the light at the
other side?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I would say hold on to hope, because healing is
possible.
But it's not easy, it doesn'tjust happen.
We have to put in the work andin order to do that, we have to
honor our grief, we have to sitwith our feelings, we have to
(44:50):
allow ourselves time to sit withour feelings and give ourselves
grace.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Like I said earlier, I have no idea why that keeps
happening.
Did you finish?
Speaker 2 (45:03):
your thought, I did yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
You did, how did you end it?
And I asked because I can edit.
I'm going to edit.
I have to edit them bothtogether anyway, but I can take
what you said and cut it thereand then layer in like a closing
okay, I said that basically, Iended with and give themselves,
(45:28):
give ourselves grace, like Imentioned earlier okay, I heard
that part.
I thought that was very good.
Yeah, this time it wasn't evenjust the internet, like my whole
entire, like my whole computer,like froze, and I had to
restart it.
Okay, but we're okay.
I got like I have the footagefrom, I have the audio from
earlier.
I grabbed all the audio fromnow.
I'm just looking at all of itbecause yours, I know.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
And when I left this, when I left the studio, waited
until it said it refinished yeah, no, that's what.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
I was looking at.
I'm like all right, I have theaudio.
I'm like this is like I can'tbelieve that happened two times
to you.
I'm so sorry.
I apologize, that's okay.
What would you like me to pointpeople towards for you Like?
Because normally I'll linkstuff in the description, so do
you want me to point them toyour Instagram?
Wait, I don't have to recordany of this.
Hold on one second Let.
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