May 4, 2025 • 51 mins
Dr. Tenia Davis shares her journey from HR professional to organizational behavior expert, exploring how servant leadership creates environments where employees feel valued and empowered to contribute their best work.
• Journey into HR from a technical background and witnessing the evolution to strategic HR
• Importance of servant leadership in creating workplace environments where employees can thrive
• Advice for young professionals including understanding company culture and asking questions
• Balancing professional accomplishments with parenting responsibilities
• Evolution of workplace expectations with younger generations valuing work-life balance
• Developing emotional intelligence to build trust with colleagues and clients
• Moving past workplace stereotypes to create authentic connections with team members
• Creating positive workplace culture through grace and finding commonalities
For more leadership insights, check out Tenia's books: "Eight Essential Steps to Inspire Others and Build a Thriving Workforce: A Leadership Advantage" and "The Feedback Blueprint: Unlocking the Power of Constructive Insights," or visit her website at leadershipwise.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, this is Steel Rose's podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I am especially excited tointroduce you to our guest today
.
We have Tenia Davis with us.
She is an accomplished humanresources practitioner, an
organizational behavior expert,with a distinguished record of
leadership and executivepositions at top tier
(00:20):
organizations such as HarpoProductions, imanage, johnson
Publishing Company and Raise.
Tania's contributions toleadership and mentorship have
been recognized by the UnitedStates Senate, affirming her
dedication to inspiring anddeveloping future leaders.
With an MBA from LoyolaUniversity, chicago, and a PhD
from Benedictine University'sCenter for Values-Driven
(00:42):
Leadership, she bridges academicrigor with real-world
experience, offering insightsthat are both practical and
actionable.
Tenia, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
I'm excited Listeners.
I had a hard time this morningwith Tenia because I kept
talking with her and I keptsaying like I have to hit record
(01:03):
.
I'm very excited for you tointroduce yourself to the
listeners and let them get toknow a little bit about your
background, how you got yourstart, how you've made your way
through your focus, through whatyou were working on, and how
you became so interested inservant leadership and really
(01:23):
molding that.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Wow, okay.
So loaded question, I'll dolayer it.
I'll start with I'm a mom oftwo and my kids.
One wants to run the world, asI was sharing, and one wants to
save it, so they're polaropposites.
So I always feel like I have toshow up as a different person
every time I talk to each one.
But anyway I will get to that.
I'm a mom, a wife, an employee,an entrepreneur, and just
(01:47):
loving life and trying tocontribute the best way I can
and leave a strong legacy for mykids.
I kind of fell into humanresources.
I started my career as a techieand the project I was working
on had to quickly stand up in HRdepartments and I was voluntold
into the role, and fordifferent reasons, and from
there I said, wow, you know, Ilike that.
There's this spectrum ofactivities that take place under
(02:09):
one umbrella.
I started in HR when it waspersonnel and have gone through
the evolution to strategic HR,which is so exciting, and
through that evolution, you knowI've worked with and for many
leaders, and one leader inparticular that I really admire
and respect modeled thebehaviors of a servant leader.
(02:30):
At the time no one was usingthe term servant leader, but Tim
Bennett, who was the presidentand CEO of an organization I
worked for, was just an amazingleader and I thought that's the
kind of leader I want to be whenI grow up.
And you know, he led this teamof type A individuals and was
(02:51):
able to get the best out ofeveryone and I wanted to model
that leadership style.
And when I took on the challengeof my PhD program I don't know
if I was insane at the time orwhat, but no, it was a great
journey One of the things Ireally wanted to study, learn
and understand was how a servantleader creates success and is
(03:13):
that servant leader able tocarry those characteristics on
to other organizations.
So a lot of my research wasaround servant-led organizations
and the individuals that kindof morphed into their leadership
chops and were they able tomove those on to other
organizations.
So that's kind of how I sparkedmy interest.
(03:35):
I've seen phenomenal leadersand I've seen leaders that just
want to run from and always wantto create an environment where
employees feel all employeesfeel that they can thrive and
contribute and produce theirbest work.
And it starts with leadership.
Good leaders can really createa cocoon of success and leaders
(03:58):
that don't have or are not fullydeveloped as leaders can really
harm a company culture.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It's so I and it's interesting to hear you You're
basically like reaffirming a lotof what myself and and former
coworkers and former colleagues,like we, we all you know talk
to each other still and it'sbeen a great pleasure to grow in
my industry.
I work in marketing andcommunications and it's it's
funny because I I used to Iremember being like the new kid
(04:26):
and I was, you know, being theyoungest person in the
organization and you were likethe baby and everybody kind of
like coddled a little bit, andnow that I've had about 18 years
in my industry, it's very it's.
I don't know, I don't know ifit's reassuring or affirming or
whatever it is, but it feelsvery good to be able to have
that and to be able to look backand say, like you know, I've
seen the good, the bad and theugly, kind of like what you just
(04:48):
alluded to, but much nicer yousaid it, much nicer than I did
For somebody who's, you know,starting out in their
professional life, which I'm notsure if there's a lot of folks
doing that these days with theevolution of working, you know,
via social media.
But for for the youth, theyounger folks, the 20 somethings
that are starting out today.
(05:10):
Is there something that?
Is there a piece of advice, oris there something that you
would say to an up and somebodywho's starting out?
Like you know, this issomething you're going to have
to deal with, or what would youdo in this situation, like, how
would you guide them?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, absolutely, because the workplace is so
complex, right, understand thelay of the land.
Identify a mentor that's beenwith you or a buddy that's been
with the organization for acouple of years, so that they
can kind of decode it for you.
Right, because you do want tounderstand what are the
unwritten rules so that youdon't hit any landmines, and
then also understand what doessuccess look like for that
(05:45):
organization?
Right, and in that success,right, where do you fit?
Understand the mission, thevalue, understand the business
itself.
It's really important tounderstand how the business
works and your role how doesyour role impact all of that?
Right, and then understand aswell you know what is the career
trajectory and hopefully thosequestions were asked in the
(06:07):
interview so you know whatyou're working towards and how
you will be evaluated.
It's very important to know howyou will be evaluated.
How often will you receivefeedback?
I think the worst thing aleader can do and it's not, I
know it's not deliberate,because no one likes giving
feedback but wait until the endof year.
You know it's so funny Everycompany is the same.
Well, you know that I've seenheard of.
(06:30):
But you know, you get to theend of year and it's oh, it's
the annual review.
I think about all the thingsthat they've done Well, what
didn't they do?
I'm one of the halo effect.
You know they did an amazingjob the last three months and
all of a sudden, rock star.
You're great, you're wonderful,and forgot all the things that
took place in the first andsecond quarter, or something
(06:51):
went wrong.
It's like you did have thishorrible review Right, not
factoring in all thecontributions that took place in
the beginning of the year.
So you know, know what thefeedback cadence is.
It's very important to givefeedback along the way.
That cadence is.
It's very important to givefeedback along the way.
So you know what you're doingwell and then you also know what
you need to improve upon.
(07:11):
So you know it's hard walkingin the doors of a new
organization.
I also say listen, make sure youpay attention to the things
that are said and things thatare not said, and ask questions.
I think that's really the mostimportant thing Ask questions,
you know.
Don't make assumptions.
You know assumptions can takeyou in the wrong direction.
But ask questions and make sureyou have clarity, especially,
(07:34):
you know if you're working on ahigh profile project or just any
project in general.
Make sure you have clarity,understand the expectations and
how you'll be evaluated and whatthe work that you do is.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
You know it's, it's interesting.
Well, one thing I will say I doit to this day and I actually I
do it with my team.
To this, like my, even thejunior folks, I'm like, if you
see something that I'm doingthat you think could be done
differently, I'm like I reallywant you to tell me.
I'm like because you're goingto look at things at a whole
different perspective and youmight know some technology that
I'm completely unaware of,because I was raised in the day
(08:09):
and age where we still use faxmachines.
If you know about something,let me know, because I want to
do good too here.
You know, my approach is veryinteresting because, like, I
think our approach, ourapproaches are probably similar
in observation wise.
Our approaches are probablysimilar in observation wise.
For every poor manager that Ihad, I would always look at the
(08:29):
situation like, let me just takea step back here.
This is not personal.
Well, maybe for them it was,but for me it wasn't.
I always tried to keep that inmind.
I'm like, this is not personal,this is business.
You don't have to like me, butwe need to get an alignment on
like, what do I need to do tomake this job role like fit,
like what do I have to do here?
So there was always thatelement.
But you always walk away from asituation with some kind of
(08:51):
knowledge.
So even if your manager wasreally awful and you felt like
they're sucking the life out ofyou which happens you can still
walk away from that situationand say, like I learned how to
not behave, like I know I wasput in this position so I know
that.
Like, at some point down theline, if I choose to be managing
people, or if I get to thatpoint, like I know, not to do
(09:13):
this to other people, like Iknow how to respond here.
A little bit of a funny story.
When I started, you know, newcollege graduate, I thought I,
you know, knew it all and I wantand back and back.
Then I used to use the linefake it until you make it, and
(09:36):
so I thought it was like part ofmy success would be pretending
like I knew what I was talkingabout, even though I didn't and
to some degree in communicationsthat's a thing to some degree.
But I didn't ask any questions.
So it was my first project atthis agency that I was working
at.
At the time they rolled thedice on me and I didn't ask
questions because I was like,well, I'll figure it out, I'll
just figure this out on my own.
I also had the mindset of, look, I'll just ignore it, maybe
(10:00):
nobody will notice that I reallydon't know what I'm talking
about.
Until it actually came back tobite me.
And so I was at that timeworking in logistics and I was
told that I had to order airportsignage.
I had no idea what that meantand it seems a little, it seems
a little logical, like you haveto order a sign for the airport.
I had no clue what that meant.
(10:20):
You know, 23 year old Jenny waslike oh, I'm ordering a bunch
of signage, maybe one of thesewill be good for them and that's
what they need.
But I never actually asked thespecific question.
So the day comes or we havehundreds of people arriving for
an event and they're like Okay,so where's the signs for the
airport?
And I was like, what what?
And laugh, no, because I'm likebut at the time I remember like
(10:46):
my stomach like fell to my feetand I was like, oh, my God, I
actually screwed something uphere because I didn't open my
mouth and you know, they movedalong Like we.
Obviously we figured.
They figured it out becausethere was a lot of professionals
there that knew what to do forpivots.
They figured it out.
Everything went fine.
But at the very end, aftereverything was said and done,
the VP, she pulls me aside andshe says to me maybe this isn't
(11:12):
for you, maybe you need torethink what your focus will be,
maybe this isn't the industryfor you.
And I didn't cry in her office,but I walked my high heels down
to the bathroom and I cried alittle bit.
I pulled myself together and Itook that as a challenge and I
(11:34):
didn't.
I didn't fold under thepressure and I was like you know
what I can do this and I can dothis better and I can really
throw myself in here and learneverything I can.
And I'm going to show them.
Like Jenny has got this.
Jenny Well, my maiden, jennyDio, has got this like she's
going to kill it.
And I did eventually, and I gotpromotions and I did all this
stuff.
But it was really that pivotalmoment of like Jenny, you have
(11:56):
to ask questions, you don't knowwhat you're talking about.
You need to open your mouth andsay like I'm not sure what to
do here, and I think that thatis something also that gets lost
, especially with, like, youngerfolks, like they don't want to
seem stupid, so they're notgoing to ask the question, and
you have to, you have to havethe dialogue.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And it builds rapport .
Right, it builds rapport, andyou're right.
I think we all have that momentof like darn it.
And I try.
I mean, just think about, youknow, the leader that you had at
that time.
If that person would have said,look you know, wasn't the best
look.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, she didn't come at me that way.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
If she would have coached you differently, you
still would have had theaspiration and you still would
have felt challenged, but youwould have felt more secure.
Probably would have got therefaster.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Absolutely.
And I will say, you know, it'sfunny that you mentioned that,
because now I reflect a lot onthose situations and I do think
to myself like what could havebeen a better way to handle that
from like the leadershipperspective?
Now, that agency also had thephrase trial by fire and I was
flat out told, told.
(13:06):
I was flat out told, this ishow we do it.
You will get thrown in and thenwe're gonna see if you can sink
or swim.
And you know, young Jenny tookthis as like a strategy, by the
way?
no, it's not.
This is a terrible idea.
This is awful.
But, like I truly was, like Iwas like, oh, all right.
I was like this is how's doneand I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it
and I'm gonna prove to everyonethat I'm going to be successful
(13:29):
here and I'm going to figurethis out, and that's just not
the way to go.
Now, granted, like, yeah, sure,I learned a lot, but that
wouldn't have been.
That's not nearly how I woulddo things now, and when I train
people now it's much more oflike I call them working
sessions.
I love doing working sessionswith people, like ask me
questions, like go through itand let me guide you as you go.
That's how you're going tolearn, and then you're not going
(13:50):
to make mistakes and you're notgoing to be stressed and have
anxiety all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, you know, the best leadership that I've seen
and just reflecting on thatorganization in particular, I
mean they were so high, thriving, but they literally had like a
template for executing prettymuch everything.
And if they didn't have it,they would together figure it
out and then make it happen.
But they would have a frameworkso someone coming in didn't
(14:14):
have to stumble through it.
And that's the worst thing tostumble through it and people
watch and then place judgmentand then you're put into a
category.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, you know that's not leadership, but but what
I've seen is where theorganization had the highest
response was having a templatefor, okay, this is how we
execute this particular project,right.
Okay, they do a post-mortemdebrief and it's a.
It's an effort where, walkingin, you have the playbook right
(14:46):
to execute and when you have theplaybook you can get the
workout faster and it's a lotcrystal right and it builds
confidence and it also withinthe organization, it builds
trust right.
I've been seeing someorganizations where people will
watch and then they'll swoop into save the day of what they
created, right.
And so and that creates a lot ofdistrust.
(15:07):
So you know, leadership matters.
You know I say it all the timeit really does.
And the workforce today?
They want to be in anenvironment where there's
authenticity, people mean whatthey say, where they can learn
and grow, where there's trustand where they feel they can
belong.
It's a little different thanwhen you and I were going
(15:29):
through.
Oh, it's totally different.
There's a job, go do it.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I'm telling you, man, I had some scary interviews in
the beginning where they werelike you will do extra hours and
you will be working until.
But at the time obviously Ididn't know any better.
I was like okay, absolutelyLike, this is what I got to do
to be successful.
I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Well, it's different now Folks coming in for
interviews.
You know, righties don't workover.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I mean right, work-life balance is like a real
, it's actual, real, it's realchecklist to it.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Right, good, you know I do.
I think having the balance isso important.
I know there's someorganizations where they have
their leaders take a day offjust to do something totally
different, just kind of reboot,refresh and keep the creativity
flowing, because if you're onthe grind all the time, there's
no way that you can reboot, stepback, reflect, analyze, because
(16:24):
you're always, you know, in thegerber wheel of things.
I think it's important to havea little bit of balance.
I work really hard to havebalance right.
Someone once told me and it wasreally good advice you have your
entire life to have a career,you have one opportunity to be a
parent and you know, as aworking mom, that was always a
(16:45):
juggle for me.
Oh my gosh.
I have to say, you know, I haveto stay until the end.
I have to go pick up mydaughter, you know, but I have
to stay until the end.
They're going to think that I'ma slacker, but I have to go
pick up my daughter, I shouldn'thave to choose, right.
And so you know, I doappreciate.
You know, the workforce todaywhere they're not going to
choose.
They're going to say, look, I'mgoing to give you my hall.
(17:07):
And oh, by the way, I got to gopick up my daughter, and so you
know, and I think that's smartfor For the employee and it's
also smart for the organization.
So the reality is that I trulybelieve people show up to give
their best.
You know, I really do, and forthe most part, most people give
you more than 40 hours a week.
(17:28):
Oh 100%, 100%, right, yeah.
So yeah, I think there arechallenges with the new
workforce, but I also appreciatea lot of the thought processes
with this new workforce.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
You know, I think it's.
I like the flexibility more nowand I will say this and I've
actually said this quite a bitto other folks too I think the
only reason why I was able togain the momentum and the
success that I was able to getwas because I was able to
transition to just fully workingfrom home, and I know that I
know deep in my soul like that'sthe only reason why I can
(18:02):
juggle and be able to beeverywhere that I am Because,
like what you just said, there'scalls that run all the way to
you know the 530 mark and I'mlike my child has an event or
whatever they need to be at atlike 545.
So that means now, and it wasfunny like I was telling one of
my team members the other day itwas like 1230 afternoon and
(18:24):
we're just taking a, just a chat, like like you said one on one
call just to chat, like seewhat's up and check in.
And I said I was like Look, Ihope you don't mind this.
I was like I have to cookdinner while you're on the phone
with me and she was like it's1230.
And I said I'm like I'm likethe kids get home at four.
They have activities at 530.
I have a call until fiveo'clock.
That means that that will onlygive me 20 minutes maybe to get
(18:47):
everybody fed and then back outthe door and I'm, like my
husband's here and he helps,like absolutely, but I need to
do my part and show up and like,make sure that they have food
so that he can deal with thatpart.
It's a partnership of makingsure things are flowing.
But that juggle for for workingmoms is is very, very real and
it's very intense.
There's a lot of days too,where, if I know I have a busy
(19:11):
day and I know that it alsoincludes kids' activities, I'll
get up and start working at 4.30in the morning because I know
that that's the only way that Ican feasibly fit everything in
that has to get done and I'mdedicated to both parts of my
life.
I'm very dedicated to my kidsand I don't want them to.
There was for a very long timethey only saw me working and it
(19:33):
was a consistent like they wouldget very upset because they
knew mommy was working all thetime and there was constant
conference calls.
And that was back when I feltlike I had to overcompensate so
much because I had three smallchildren and I have.
I've had clients tell me, well,you can't do your job because
you're a mother, you can't dothis job because you know you're
(19:56):
not going to.
You're oh, that must be whyyou're not doing well.
And I've yeah, I've had clientstalk to me like that.
I remember I'm like I am doingmy job well, like I have
children, but that does notaffect my ability to be a
professional here and so I'mvery cautious.
It took me a long time and aboutI think it was I was 37 or so
(20:18):
when I had that epiphany momentof I only have one shot at being
a mom and it like it, kind oflike it hit me like a ton of
bricks.
I was put on this project and Iwas like stuck on it for like
three weeks.
I had said I couldn't handle it.
I said my workload was alreadytoo full.
But you know, as you know, likewhen you're good at your job,
it's like being you know thepunishment for being good,
(20:40):
you're going to get more stuff.
And I was put on this reallyintense project for like three
weeks.
I was just on it and my bosswas nowhere to be found.
She kind of just floated offinto the abyss.
She should have been handlingit but she just kind of left me
to deal with it and me beingdedicated to my team, I couldn't
just let them flail about.
(21:01):
I had to do it.
So for three weeks I didn't seemy kids, like I was working from
home, but my husband was homewith them.
He it was summertime, so he wasin the pool with them and
hanging out with them and doingall the fun stuff.
And I was stuck in my officeand when it was all done, I
remember like I came out of theoffice and they were like, are
you done?
Like, are you finally done?
They were like bigger and I waslike and my whole heart like
(21:31):
totally crushed.
And I remember like in thatmoment saying like I'm not doing
this anymore, like for work,I'm, yes, I'm valued, but I'm
also replaceable.
I'm not replaceable here athome.
So it's that very there's avery serious dance that women
have to do to like balance bothof those worlds.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, you know, I went through that, that, that
same process, and when myyoungest was, I think Athena was
about, I think she was eight, Ithink it was eight, but she was
, you know, joking, and she was,this was my mommy, and she said
she had a, um, a little cup andthe cup was the phone and she
was just talking, talking, wait,wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold
(22:11):
on, hold on, and she keptputting the thing yeah, and you
know, I just said cried, I waslike that is not I am.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
They do that to me too, but it was.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But you know it's, you're right, it is a juggle.
And I will say one of thethings that I am so grateful for
I really have a good villagearound me and there's no way I
could have done half the thingswithout the village, my family
and friends, because we cannotdo it all and I think there's an
expectation that we do it alland I don't think people
(22:43):
understand all that goes into it.
I mean, I always say I have theutmost respect for stay-at-home
moms.
That is the hardest job.
Oh, my gosh, that is thehardest job.
And I will take someone thathas been a stay-at-home mom over
a bunch of other candidates,because I know the nuances that
they balance, juggle, makedecisions and multitask and lead
(23:04):
.
You think about all thedifferent dynamics that go into
a day.
Some of those dynamics exist inthe workplace and I do think we
need to give each other moregrace.
I really do.
It's so easy to say, oh, Iwould do this if I were you.
No, you would not.
Yeah, no.
So I think we need to give eachother grace and it is a juggle,
(23:27):
right, and it's not easy.
There are some things I didextremely well and then there
are some things I just totallybombed right.
And when we're parents, youknow it's not like there's this
book, I don't care what DrSpock's is, no, I always say Dr
Spock never met my kids.
So you know, there's somethings we know will work and
then there are just some thingswe know just will not.
(23:48):
We got to figure it out andeach child is different.
They have different needs,different love languages.
And my one daughter, it's timethat's really important.
So I need to sit still and notmultitask in front of her.
Yeah, they get offended, right,and my parents multitask all
the time.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I don't remember a sit down and now, like I don't
never even said anything.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
But you know, like these, just these kids are
different.
So, but my youngest is totallydifferent, right, she just wants
to know one, two, three.
Okay, can I go now?
You?
know and they just havedifferent needs.
So understanding those dynamicstoo are are important, even
with you know some of the thingsthat I create.
I have my kids in mind.
I try to create within thespace of what I'm doing.
(24:34):
I try to incorporate them or atleast connect in, because
they're learning from us.
They're learning how to beentrepreneurs.
They're learning how to bebusiness people.
They're learning how to have astrong work ethic.
Yes, they're learning all thesethings right, and a good work
ethic is very.
They're learning all thesethings right and a good work
ethic is very important, nomatter what people do.
However, they're also learninghow to be on a grind without
(24:54):
balance, and so it's importantthat we kind of figure out how
to balance that out and we'restill trying to figure that out
too.
Right, but I think there's anexpectation of moms that are
just higher.
Yeah, like my daughter, what doyou mean?
Why can't you?
Well, what do you mean?
This drives me crazy.
(25:14):
I'm like what are you talkingabout?
Of course, you know I need todo this first before I do that,
but I think, because we do itall, they feel we can really do
it all, and so they don't see orunderstand the work that goes
into doing it all.
I now spend more timeexplaining hey, in order for me
to do this, I have to do this.
(25:35):
You know I didn't go to schoolstraight through in my younger
years.
You know I'm 58.
So in my 40s I went back toschool to get my MBA.
In my 50s I went back to schoolfor a PhD.
So these are different cyclesof time.
And so it's interesting.
(25:58):
Achieving my MBA, my daughteronly saw the output of that my
PhD, because it was during COVID.
You know the output of that myPhD, because it was during COVID
.
She saw the work that went intoit different, and that's when
it dawned on me they need toreally understand the work that
goes into it.
And so she saw.
(26:19):
You know, there'll be days Inever move from my chair.
I'm just reading andresearching and typing and
writing.
She's like what's wrong withyou?
I said, oh, can you give mesome water?
But you know.
But she saw and there was a lotof hard work and tears too.
It was just like what do youmean?
You marked up my paper.
This is a great paper.
But you know she saw the workand the rigor that went into
(26:42):
that as well to achieve thataccomplishment, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I like that.
It's interesting because I'mdoing the same approach with my
kids.
Like I'll explain to them likein detail and it's actually very
funny because we've been doingthat since they were little Like
, since they could talk myhusband and I explain things to
them in detail.
So you imagine, like a littlethree-year-old sitting there and
I'm like listen, mommy has todo this, this and this.
Okay, and in order to do allthese things, then we can do
(27:14):
that.
And they're like okay, mommy,you know, but because we've been
doing it for forever, they theydo understand and they have a
little bit more of a grasp oflike.
For example, if I'm having, ifI've had just a lot of phone
calls throughout the day,no-transcript diligence there.
(27:34):
But when you are a servantleader, it you actually have a
lot more on your plate.
So there's there's amisconception of like, oh, like
when you're in a leadershipposition, like you're just
delegating and delegating,that's it, and you walk away.
And that's really not the case,because now you're responsible
for people and you actually workharder because you need to make
sure that you're taking thesepeople under your wing and
really teaching them properly.
So I'll get to the end of theday sometimes and I will feel
(27:58):
like I've given all I've gotalready.
But that can't be the casebecause I have three children
that are looking to me foreverything for this moment, and
I know I only have a couple moreyears of this.
I'm everything, yeah.
So I take that really seriously.
So I get, but I get to the endof the day sometimes and I
forget.
I don't remember what activitywe're going to.
(28:20):
I think it was like religiousclass, I think it was a religion
class and it was like fiveo'clock or it was 5 30.
Cause we were late and I'mrushing them over to the thing
and all three of my kids talk atthe same time.
They have no regard for eachother.
They will all be talking to me,but all at the same time.
And I, I turned, and the musicwas on the car too.
So I turned the music off.
I was like please, I need all ofyou to just be quiet for the
(28:42):
rest of the car ride.
I was like just don't talk.
I was like I'm I'm so sorry, Iknow mommy's being mean right
now, but please, please, just bequiet.
And it was like really quiet.
And then, all of a sudden, myson was like wait for how long?
And I was like, just just.
And then, like one of hissisters was like shh, mommy said
to be quiet.
He's like I'm trying to figureout how long.
(29:02):
And then he started going backat me and I was like, oh my God,
clarity, that's all.
He was like, I just need it, Ineed a timeframe.
He's very yeah, he's my, he'smy litigator.
He's like going to be.
I think he's going to end upbeing something in that capacity
, because everything you say tohim he comes back.
He's like okay, but what?
If?
(29:22):
Right, If I do it like this andmaybe like this, like, then I
can do this.
And we're like, oh my God.
He told me the other day, likelike what it was, and he was
like yeah, but it's okay,because I do this, because and
Bobby lets me do it because he'stired and he doesn't want to
argue with me, so he knows, Iknow I'm gonna be able to do
this.
And I'm like oh, you've alreadygot us figured out.
(29:49):
Regarding servant leadership,though, because that is, I think
, a fairly new term in thebusiness world Not new all the
way new, but I don't feel likeit's used as much, is it?
Am I right in saying that?
Because I've talked about thisa little bit and people seem to
look at me like I'm crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
So I think people struggle with the word servant.
So I've heard a lot of folkssay service leadership.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Okay, I think people struggle with the word servant,
so I've heard a lot of folks sayservice leadership.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I think people struggle with the word servant
and the concept itself has beenaround for a long time.
But the reason why I am a fan,of course, of servant leadership
or service leadership is I dothink there's something to the
way that employees want to beled today, and a servant leader
(30:30):
will look at the team, thedynamics of the team, the
nuances of the team and look athow can I get the best out of
this group and how can I helpcultivate, evolve and help folks
transform or even grow in theircareer trajectory right.
So that's a little different.
That's where you're literallytaking the time to get to know
(30:51):
the person you know.
Jenny, I want to get tounderstand.
Well, how do you like to learn?
Tell me a little bit about yourbackground, because that has a
lot of impact and influence tohow you will approach your work.
Right Versus.
Here's the task get it done,and I don't care what you do
Monday through Friday orSaturday or Sunday.
I think we'll have a little bitmore still business focused.
(31:13):
Right, it doesn't take awayfrom the business focus and I
think sometimes people kind ofget that confused, but it's not.
Actually they're very focusedon the business outcome, but
they're also focused on okay,these are the people that are
going to get this work out thedoor.
Let on, okay, these are thepeople that are going to get
this work out the door.
Let me see how I can help themhave clarity, understanding, but
(31:33):
also, what are their drivers?
How can I help them havesuccess?
How can I give them feedback tohave success?
Right, and there's more of aninvestment in the person's
development, right?
So, there, there, there is alittle bit of that.
I found that when I wasresearching servant leaders, the
ones that really stood out werethe ones that took that extra
(31:55):
step.
Servant leaders there's thesedifferent characteristics, and
awareness is one.
I think it's more than that.
The ones that really had themost success had more than
awareness.
They were almost accountable totheir team.
They were accountable todeveloping, you know, their,
their folks, and so that's alittle bit different than having
(32:17):
awareness or cultural awareness, something that that's more of
a check the box to me.
Having cultural awareness andthat's one of the
characteristics, but it's moreof having awareness that, yes,
you know, ginny might be from adifferent country, she has
different customs.
That's also wrapped in the wayshe approaches her work.
So how can we get the benefitof that?
(32:39):
Right, let me understand whatthat is, and that's a little bit
different.
And that builds trust.
The reason why that's importantis that that builds trust,
Right.
It also, I think, as leaders,it expands our learning, right.
I mean, everybody's had those.
I had one leader like he wouldonly talk like in jargon that he
got from MTV and I don't evenuse that jargon, right, but
(33:04):
that's the way I talk, right,and you know it was so off
putting, but it was what hethought was right, right, Right,
and it kind of gave him a passof really getting to know me and
I never used I mean, he wentfor months just having this
conversation this way.
I never used any of the wordsthat he used, right, but it was
(33:27):
cool to him and he thoughtthat's people like me, that's
the way we talked, but he didn'ttake any time to really know me
.
And so I think the workforcetoday has somewhat of that same
dynamic.
They want to know that theybelong, they want to know that
they can contribute and theywant to know that you have a
(33:47):
vested interest in their careerdevelopment.
Right, in order for that totake place, you have to have a
conversation with folks, right,and so I think when leaders at
least based on my observationwhen leaders take the time to
really understand the nuances oftheir folks, they not only have
a stronger team, but they havestronger trust, right, and the
(34:10):
dynamics are more authenticversus.
I've worked with folks that Imean they live in every
stereotype, and so you'reliterally working to prove
yourself, but you're alsoworking to prove that the
stereotypes don't exist.
That's exhausting, right, andso I think the workforce today
(34:31):
is just creating, and they'recreating, their own dynamic,
right Of how they want to, to bein the workplace, and I think
that's, I think that's fair,right, absolutely.
Look at you know you spend morethan 40 hours a week at a
company.
Oh yeah, you wanted to meansomething, you wanted to account
for something, right?
Yes, you get a paycheck, butyou're also creating.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
You're showing up.
Yeah, you're creating something.
It's interesting because thedynamics of an organization and
your team dynamics, the folksthat you're working with, it's
so important that you're workingwith, it's so important exactly
what you just said, there'slike valuable, like personal
transactions that are happeningin conversations.
Because, yes, like you'refocused on the work and I have
(35:15):
that problem, by the way, and Ithink it's because of you, know
how I came up in the industry Ihave that problem where I will
dive right into the project andI forget that like no, but
there's like, but there's peoplehere and you don't know how, if
they had a rough night, ifsomething happened or you know
what have you?
They're going through a breakup, like whatever it is, there's
people on the other end of thisline.
So, like, jenny, ease up alittle bit.
(35:36):
And so I actually have tomental check myself to like you
don't have to like dive right inand like make sure you ask
people like, oh, how was yourweekend, how are you doing?
Where I currently work?
I was really surprised becauseall the way up the ladder in the
organization we jumped on thiscall, there was all these top
people in and I was like, oh mygosh, I was new so I'm like, oh
(35:59):
my gosh, I got to make sure I'mon it and I know what I'm doing
here and they chatted for 10minutes about something really
silly and everybody was kind oflaughing and just joking around
with each other and I was likewe're on like a deadline, what
is going on?
Right now?
I was very like thrown offbecause I was used to and I've
always been used to, like goingdirect in here's the orders,
(36:20):
that's it, move on.
And it's actually taken me.
It's actually I've been with myorganization for two months and
it's taken me a minute to getused to the fact that, like
everyone, human humanly talks toeach other and it's not like
you know barking orders andthat's it.
Talks to each other and it'snot like you know barking orders
and that's it.
And so that is very interesting.
As personal as I am, it'staking me some getting used to
(36:41):
for that it's happening.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Life is happening.
Life is definitely happeningfor folks and sometimes you just
need a break.
Sometimes you just need a breakand people need to know that
they can feel safe in doing thatRight.
People need to feel safe.
Listen, I don't care how manyrobots you build, you still need
people to do the job Honestly,honestly being built these days,
(37:04):
but you still need you and itstill needs humanity.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yes, yeah, there's we still need to like, and even
now that and I mentioned, like Iwork from home.
I've been working from homesince 2017.
And I've noticed in thatdynamic and I mentioned this
earlier that I think people getused to that and then they
forget that there is a human onthe other side of the line.
That's a person and you know,when I was transitioning out of
(37:34):
my last agency, we, you know itwas a rough go and we kept
trying to make it work and itwas just a mismatch of
personalities.
It's really what it boiled downto.
It was really just a mismatchof personalities.
And I got to the end there andI remember thinking to myself,
like what are you doing?
Like if you were dating someonefor two and a half years and it
was this hard right, you wouldhave broken up with them already
(37:58):
.
So what are you doing here?
Like what are you trying toforce?
Like it's not working.
That is what it is.
And it was actually a little bitfunny, because when I resigned
that's actually exactly what Isaid.
I was like it's really just amismatch of personalities.
Like I love the work, I lovethe clients, like I love all the
stuff, but, like, when it cameto actually working in the
process of it, it was a totalmismatch.
(38:18):
And I walked away, though stillfeeling good, because I was
like it's okay, I'm not foreverybody and that has to be
okay.
I shouldn't be for everybody,and it goes to that authenticity
that you were talking aboutearlier.
If I'm really being authenticand true to myself and it's just
not working for wherever I am,that doesn't mean that they're
wrong or that I'm wrong.
(38:39):
It just means it's a mismatch.
That's okay, and you don't haveto continue to bang your head
against the wall.
You can just open the door andgo out the other side.
Like this doesn't have to be athing.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
And I think you say that I've seen that in other
organizations as well, where ifyou have to work really hard to
understand the company cultureand only one or two people
really understand the companyculture, it's probably the
culture that they created, right, and so you're never going to
be able to crack that code,because then that means there
will have to be change, right,and some companies, or whoever's
leading it, don't want thechange Right.
If you represent change, thenthey will continue creating
(39:18):
cycles that only they set theparameters around, right, and
that's not.
That's not a fun way to work.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
No and and and it's okay.
And that's the other thing too,myself included.
People get stuck being like Ican't leave because I've only
been here for six months andthat'll look bad on my resume
and I don't know so much thatthat's even like real anymore.
I think people understand nowlike that.
You know, sometimes things justdon't work out.
I have a couple places on myresume where I was only there
(39:48):
for a year or a little over ayear.
There was one place I was onlythere for like nine months and I
was like no, it's just notworking.
You know like it and it happensand you have to kind of just be
okay with it and go with it.
But it's still like a learningexperience.
I will say what um in one of myreally really early agencies um
was when I learned at first,learned about emotional
intelligence and you touched onit earlier, so I want to talk
(40:10):
about that.
I um I remember I was, I wasstruggling at this agency.
It was kind of toxic and but Iwas dealing with it Because,
again, I thought that I'd have achoice and so I was dealing
with it and I was just makingsure I kept my head down.
Do your job, you know, suck itup Because you need, you need to
work.
And so I just kept movingforward with it and in while I
(40:31):
was there, one of the humanresources person gave me this
book and she was like, check itout, it's really cool.
And I read it and it changedhow I approached everything,
because I can't remember whatthe book was called but I'm
gonna have to look it up and seeif I could figure out what it
was because I read the book andI remember going through it and
(40:51):
then afterwards I was able toalmost like out of a body,
almost like an out of bodyexperience.
Take a step back and justobserve the room.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
And and pick up on cues, that it's in the tone of
voice, it's in the eye contact,it's in the mannerisms, it's in
the facial expressions, likethere's so much more being
communicated than what's comingout of our mouths.
And you can observe it virtuallytoo.
So I'm 100% virtual, and whenI'm speaking with clients, I can
(41:22):
see it.
I can just see it on theirfaces and I can sense their
energy through the call.
That's part of why I'm able tobe doing well know, doing well
at my job, because I can pick upon these cues.
And something that I'vedeveloped over the past 18 years
was being able to foster trustwith clients and being able to
(41:43):
have, like, make sure theyunderstand, like I'm here for
you, I'm here to elevate you, sotell me what you need and I'm
going to show up for you.
Not everybody is very directand you kind of have to feel it
out, but emotional intelligenceis something that, like, I've
talked to people about quite abit, to say, like, if you don't
know anything about it, youreally should start researching
it and start looking things up,because this is like a really
(42:05):
crucial thing for us.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
And having empathy.
I agree, you know I think theworld needs a lot more of what's
going on now.
But you know, I think for someit might be a reconditioning
right, because you know we werejust talking about how we kind
of grew up in the workplace andit's different now where the
(42:27):
workforce today they look forthe EQ and empathy first.
So you know how leaders leadwith that, which is really
critical for some.
Yeah, and not saying that onestyle is, I want to make sure
I'm clear.
One style is not better thanthe other.
You do need all work stylesdepending on the environment,
(42:51):
the company culture right in thebusiness.
You do need all styles on theenvironment, the company culture
right In the business.
You do need all styles.
What's important is knowing howto adapt to the team that
you're leading right, so it'snot forcing the team to conform
to the leader style.
The leader has to be a littleagile and get the best out of
(43:11):
their team right, and so thatsometimes creates a pivot for
them.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
And that takes time too.
I mean, this is not, like youknow, you rip the bandaid off
and everything is all well andgood.
It's a consistent.
As you said earlier, it startswith the leader and the leader
setting the example, but therehas to be a consistency of
making sure that it's understood, Like I'm setting this example
but I expect this from my peopleand really like paying
(43:39):
attention and digging in witheach person and making sure you
get to know these people.
And you know I follow GaryVaynerchuk I don't know if
you're familiar with it, so Iactually worked at the bank next
to the wine store that hisfamily owned and I remember,
like I would, I was banking, Iwas doing the bank transaction,
(44:00):
I was like 19.
And obviously I didn't know,like he wasn't anybody at that
point.
And it was very funny to mebecause, like several years
later, a friend of a friendhands me this book, was like hey
, like read this book by thisguy and I started reading it and
I was like wait, I, I know thisperson, so I've actually paid
attention to his careertrajectory and he talks quite a
(44:22):
bit about, like you know, hetalks to his people, he makes it
a point to have conversationeverybody.
He talks to everybody, itdoesn't matter what level they
are.
He makes sure that he talks toeverybody and he impress, matter
what level they are.
He makes sure that he talks toeverybody and he impresses upon
his organization what he expectsfrom people.
And that's how people show up.
You know a nod to also like mycurrent boss, because she shows
(44:47):
up the way she does, with somuch emotional intelligence and
she does care so much about theteam and because she is a
servant leader hands down,because she shows up like that,
I actually show up more becauseI know how hard she's working on
things and I know what she'sexpecting and because I'm seeing
that I actually will pressmyself harder to make sure that
(45:10):
I'm doing better so that I cansupport her and the team shows
up more.
Yeah, yeah.
And it has this beautiful likewaterfall effect make sure that
I'm doing better that so that Ican support her and the team
shows up more.
Yeah, yeah.
And it has this beautiful likewaterfall effect of like we're
all showing up because we needto work, we're here to support
each other and at the end of theday, before everybody's logging
off, everyone checks in hey,are you okay.
Does anyone need anythingbefore I go?
Are we all good?
Does anyone have late nightwork?
(45:31):
It's a beautiful thing to say.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I totally agree with that Tenia.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
do you have, if you had something that you'd want to
say to the listeners from thisconversation, an important
highlight that you think wouldbe a key takeaway?
What would it be?
I like to do this to all of myguests, by the way, and everyone
comes out with somethingtotally different.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
I think the world is so polarized now I think we need
to give each other more grace,and if a moment in time can
create an energy of intensity Iwon't give it a label then I
would think that anothermovement can create something
(46:19):
positive.
So I would like to createsomething positive and I think,
in the workplace, just a simplehey, can I help you out with
this?
Right, if we whether you're aleader or not take the time to
help someone else do their jobbetter, you'll have a stronger
workplace and also the humanityin us comes out right, and I
(46:42):
would like to have a movementlike that.
How can we help each other bebetter and how can we help our
work environment be better?
We help our work environment bebetter, right, and sometimes it
just might be thank you, youdid extremely well and I
appreciate the work that youproduced today.
(47:03):
Or I appreciate the things thatyou did, or thank you for the
information you gave me.
It helped me do my job better,or, you know, it might be a
little better outcome if you dothis.
Do you mind if I show you Right?
I just think if we start usingdifferent language, I think
we're in such a state to whereeverything is you versus me.
(47:24):
I'm right.
You're wrong, up versus downthat we're not looking for
commonalities and we have morecommonalities in common.
We have more in common than wedo different Right, and there's
nothing wrong with in common.
We have more in common than wedo different right, and there's
nothing wrong with beingdifferent right.
Different is good, but when youlook at common, what you have
in common, you will accept moreof what is different, and so I
(47:47):
think our focus is in the wrongplace, and if we're going to
truly rise to the occasion ofwho we all are, then part of
that is how we show up, you know, and so I would like to see
more of that.
The last piece in my book,servant Leadership, I talk a lot
(48:07):
about how, having a servantleadership mentality and
mentoring, how one could do that, and I literally wrote the book
that way so a person wouldn'thave to read through chapters
and chapters just to know, oh,I'm only supposed to do this.
Okay, I literally wrote bothbooks and how to give feedback,
because those are the twofeedback, and every company has
(48:29):
been like the most painfulprocess for folks.
How do I?
I don't want to tell someone.
I don't want to, I don't wantto get bad news, and so I
created a really simple to,really just from the things that
I've been doing my entirecareer.
But I wanted something that anysort of leader, any stage,
wherever they are, I could justpick it up and say, okay, this
is how I can walk through aconversation and be productive.
(48:52):
But it starts with us andwhat's the name of the book?
So I have two.
There's the book on servantleadership.
It's Eight Essential Steps toInspire Others and Build a
Thriving Workforce.
It's a leadership advantage.
It's such a long title, I know.
And then the other book is theFeedback Blueprint, unlocking
(49:15):
the Power of ConstructiveInsights.
You know, I think both offervery simple tools.
At least I wrote it so that itwas easy to understand.
There is some academic aspectsto it, just to kind of give some
of the science behind.
You know how people hear, howpeople see things, and talk a
lot about Chihari's window aswell, which is kind of a concept
(49:36):
of how you see yourself and howothers see you, which you don't
see, which are your blind spots, and so I think both offer the
reader one.
You don't have to read throughpages and pages of work, but it
gives tools as well, so someonecould take it and use it right
away.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
And I will say this listeners, I'm going to link
those books in the episodedescription and what I'd like to
highlight here is you don'thave to be in a leadership
position to learn from thesebooks.
So even if you're like freshstarting out and you know you're
very junior and just trying to,you're figuring your way out,
these kind of this kind ofliterature will help ground you
(50:17):
in really good practices forcommunication and inter office
communication and how to handlesituations.
You could always manage up that.
That's like a.
That's a very serious thing Imanage up consistently.
Like that's a really big dealand I want to advise, like, if
you are starting out in anyindustry, this is going to be
anything, because in allindustries you have to
(50:38):
communicate.
These kinds of books are reallyimportant.
So I am going to link the booksin the podcast description so
you can take a look at them,because that, if you really
looking to further your careerlike this is it.
This is the way to besuccessful and it may not be the
most popular aggressive, butyou don't always have to be the
aggressor.
Like.
This is just a way to go aboutit, where you can really find
(51:00):
some really good gold nuggetsthere and I want to really call
that out.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
And then my website, my blog.
I deliberately put out almostevery other day, but I put out
content so leaders can just gosomewhere and get quick
information Right.
It's free and sometimes leadersjust need hey, what do I do?
What do I say?
Speaker 1 (51:24):
And so I try to create that content in my blog.
And is that on leadership wise,leadership wisecom, leadership,
awesome, tanya, thank you somuch for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
This has been such a pleasure I would literally hold
you hostage all day and hang outwith you, that's.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
that's been such a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
I would literally hold you hostage all day and
hang out with you.
That's where I'm at at thispoint.
I'll just bring the kids over.
We can just run everywhere.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
It's okay.
Kids come over all the time.
It's fine, they're cool,they'll hang out.
Thank you so much for joiningme today, and listeners, thank
you for hanging out with us.
We will catch you on the nextone.
Take care, talk soon.
Thank you.
Hello everybody, this is Steel Rose's podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I am especially excited tointroduce you to our guest today
.
We have Tenia Davis with us.
She is an accomplished humanresources practitioner, an
organizational behavior expert,with a distinguished record of
leadership and executivepositions at top tier
(00:20):
organizations such as HarpoProductions, imanage, johnson
Publishing Company and Raise.
Tania's contributions toleadership and mentorship have
been recognized by the UnitedStates Senate, affirming her
dedication to inspiring anddeveloping future leaders.
With an MBA from LoyolaUniversity, chicago, and a PhD
from Benedictine University'sCenter for Values-Driven
(00:42):
Leadership, she bridges academicrigor with real-world
experience, offering insightsthat are both practical and
actionable.
Tenia, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
I'm excited Listeners.
I had a hard time this morningwith Tenia because I kept
talking with her and I keptsaying like I have to hit record
(01:03):
.
I'm very excited for you tointroduce yourself to the
listeners and let them get toknow a little bit about your
background, how you got yourstart, how you've made your way
through your focus, through whatyou were working on, and how
you became so interested inservant leadership and really
(01:23):
molding that.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Wow, okay.
So loaded question, I'll dolayer it.
I'll start with I'm a mom oftwo and my kids.
One wants to run the world, asI was sharing, and one wants to
save it, so they're polaropposites.
So I always feel like I have toshow up as a different person
every time I talk to each one.
But anyway I will get to that.
I'm a mom, a wife, an employee,an entrepreneur, and just
(01:47):
loving life and trying tocontribute the best way I can
and leave a strong legacy for mykids.
I kind of fell into humanresources.
I started my career as a techieand the project I was working
on had to quickly stand up in HRdepartments and I was voluntold
into the role, and fordifferent reasons, and from
there I said, wow, you know, Ilike that.
There's this spectrum ofactivities that take place under
(02:09):
one umbrella.
I started in HR when it waspersonnel and have gone through
the evolution to strategic HR,which is so exciting, and
through that evolution, you knowI've worked with and for many
leaders, and one leader inparticular that I really admire
and respect modeled thebehaviors of a servant leader.
(02:30):
At the time no one was usingthe term servant leader, but Tim
Bennett, who was the presidentand CEO of an organization I
worked for, was just an amazingleader and I thought that's the
kind of leader I want to be whenI grow up.
And you know, he led this teamof type A individuals and was
(02:51):
able to get the best out ofeveryone and I wanted to model
that leadership style.
And when I took on the challengeof my PhD program I don't know
if I was insane at the time orwhat, but no, it was a great
journey One of the things Ireally wanted to study, learn
and understand was how a servantleader creates success and is
(03:13):
that servant leader able tocarry those characteristics on
to other organizations.
So a lot of my research wasaround servant-led organizations
and the individuals that kindof morphed into their leadership
chops and were they able tomove those on to other
organizations.
So that's kind of how I sparkedmy interest.
(03:35):
I've seen phenomenal leadersand I've seen leaders that just
want to run from and always wantto create an environment where
employees feel all employeesfeel that they can thrive and
contribute and produce theirbest work.
And it starts with leadership.
Good leaders can really createa cocoon of success and leaders
(03:58):
that don't have or are not fullydeveloped as leaders can really
harm a company culture.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It's so I and it's interesting to hear you You're
basically like reaffirming a lotof what myself and and former
coworkers and former colleagues,like we, we all you know talk
to each other still and it'sbeen a great pleasure to grow in
my industry.
I work in marketing andcommunications and it's it's
funny because I I used to Iremember being like the new kid
(04:26):
and I was, you know, being theyoungest person in the
organization and you were likethe baby and everybody kind of
like coddled a little bit, andnow that I've had about 18 years
in my industry, it's very it's.
I don't know, I don't know ifit's reassuring or affirming or
whatever it is, but it feelsvery good to be able to have
that and to be able to look backand say, like you know, I've
seen the good, the bad and theugly, kind of like what you just
(04:48):
alluded to, but much nicer yousaid it, much nicer than I did
For somebody who's, you know,starting out in their
professional life, which I'm notsure if there's a lot of folks
doing that these days with theevolution of working, you know,
via social media.
But for for the youth, theyounger folks, the 20 somethings
that are starting out today.
(05:10):
Is there something that?
Is there a piece of advice, oris there something that you
would say to an up and somebodywho's starting out?
Like you know, this issomething you're going to have
to deal with, or what would youdo in this situation, like, how
would you guide them?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, absolutely, because the workplace is so
complex, right, understand thelay of the land.
Identify a mentor that's beenwith you or a buddy that's been
with the organization for acouple of years, so that they
can kind of decode it for you.
Right, because you do want tounderstand what are the
unwritten rules so that youdon't hit any landmines, and
then also understand what doessuccess look like for that
(05:45):
organization?
Right, and in that success,right, where do you fit?
Understand the mission, thevalue, understand the business
itself.
It's really important tounderstand how the business
works and your role how doesyour role impact all of that?
Right, and then understand aswell you know what is the career
trajectory and hopefully thosequestions were asked in the
(06:07):
interview so you know whatyou're working towards and how
you will be evaluated.
It's very important to know howyou will be evaluated.
How often will you receivefeedback?
I think the worst thing aleader can do and it's not, I
know it's not deliberate,because no one likes giving
feedback but wait until the endof year.
You know it's so funny Everycompany is the same.
Well, you know that I've seenheard of.
(06:30):
But you know, you get to theend of year and it's oh, it's
the annual review.
I think about all the thingsthat they've done Well, what
didn't they do?
I'm one of the halo effect.
You know they did an amazingjob the last three months and
all of a sudden, rock star.
You're great, you're wonderful,and forgot all the things that
took place in the first andsecond quarter, or something
(06:51):
went wrong.
It's like you did have thishorrible review Right, not
factoring in all thecontributions that took place in
the beginning of the year.
So you know, know what thefeedback cadence is.
It's very important to givefeedback along the way.
That cadence is.
It's very important to givefeedback along the way.
So you know what you're doingwell and then you also know what
you need to improve upon.
(07:11):
So you know it's hard walkingin the doors of a new
organization.
I also say listen, make sure youpay attention to the things
that are said and things thatare not said, and ask questions.
I think that's really the mostimportant thing Ask questions,
you know.
Don't make assumptions.
You know assumptions can takeyou in the wrong direction.
But ask questions and make sureyou have clarity, especially,
(07:34):
you know if you're working on ahigh profile project or just any
project in general.
Make sure you have clarity,understand the expectations and
how you'll be evaluated and whatthe work that you do is.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
You know it's, it's interesting.
Well, one thing I will say I doit to this day and I actually I
do it with my team.
To this, like my, even thejunior folks, I'm like, if you
see something that I'm doingthat you think could be done
differently, I'm like I reallywant you to tell me.
I'm like because you're goingto look at things at a whole
different perspective and youmight know some technology that
I'm completely unaware of,because I was raised in the day
(08:09):
and age where we still use faxmachines.
If you know about something,let me know, because I want to
do good too here.
You know, my approach is veryinteresting because, like, I
think our approach, ourapproaches are probably similar
in observation wise.
Our approaches are probablysimilar in observation wise.
For every poor manager that Ihad, I would always look at the
(08:29):
situation like, let me just takea step back here.
This is not personal.
Well, maybe for them it was,but for me it wasn't.
I always tried to keep that inmind.
I'm like, this is not personal,this is business.
You don't have to like me, butwe need to get an alignment on
like, what do I need to do tomake this job role like fit,
like what do I have to do here?
So there was always thatelement.
But you always walk away from asituation with some kind of
(08:51):
knowledge.
So even if your manager wasreally awful and you felt like
they're sucking the life out ofyou which happens you can still
walk away from that situationand say, like I learned how to
not behave, like I know I wasput in this position so I know
that.
Like, at some point down theline, if I choose to be managing
people, or if I get to thatpoint, like I know, not to do
(09:13):
this to other people, like Iknow how to respond here.
A little bit of a funny story.
When I started, you know, newcollege graduate, I thought I,
you know, knew it all and I wantand back and back.
Then I used to use the linefake it until you make it, and
(09:36):
so I thought it was like part ofmy success would be pretending
like I knew what I was talkingabout, even though I didn't and
to some degree in communicationsthat's a thing to some degree.
But I didn't ask any questions.
So it was my first project atthis agency that I was working
at.
At the time they rolled thedice on me and I didn't ask
questions because I was like,well, I'll figure it out, I'll
just figure this out on my own.
I also had the mindset of, look, I'll just ignore it, maybe
(10:00):
nobody will notice that I reallydon't know what I'm talking
about.
Until it actually came back tobite me.
And so I was at that timeworking in logistics and I was
told that I had to order airportsignage.
I had no idea what that meantand it seems a little, it seems
a little logical, like you haveto order a sign for the airport.
I had no clue what that meant.
(10:20):
You know, 23 year old Jenny waslike oh, I'm ordering a bunch
of signage, maybe one of thesewill be good for them and that's
what they need.
But I never actually asked thespecific question.
So the day comes or we havehundreds of people arriving for
an event and they're like Okay,so where's the signs for the
airport?
And I was like, what what?
And laugh, no, because I'm likebut at the time I remember like
(10:46):
my stomach like fell to my feetand I was like, oh, my God, I
actually screwed something uphere because I didn't open my
mouth and you know, they movedalong Like we.
Obviously we figured.
They figured it out becausethere was a lot of professionals
there that knew what to do forpivots.
They figured it out.
Everything went fine.
But at the very end, aftereverything was said and done,
the VP, she pulls me aside andshe says to me maybe this isn't
(11:12):
for you, maybe you need torethink what your focus will be,
maybe this isn't the industryfor you.
And I didn't cry in her office,but I walked my high heels down
to the bathroom and I cried alittle bit.
I pulled myself together and Itook that as a challenge and I
(11:34):
didn't.
I didn't fold under thepressure and I was like you know
what I can do this and I can dothis better and I can really
throw myself in here and learneverything I can.
And I'm going to show them.
Like Jenny has got this.
Jenny Well, my maiden, jennyDio, has got this like she's
going to kill it.
And I did eventually, and I gotpromotions and I did all this
stuff.
But it was really that pivotalmoment of like Jenny, you have
(11:56):
to ask questions, you don't knowwhat you're talking about.
You need to open your mouth andsay like I'm not sure what to
do here, and I think that thatis something also that gets lost
, especially with, like, youngerfolks, like they don't want to
seem stupid, so they're notgoing to ask the question, and
you have to, you have to havethe dialogue.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And it builds rapport .
Right, it builds rapport, andyou're right.
I think we all have that momentof like darn it.
And I try.
I mean, just think about, youknow, the leader that you had at
that time.
If that person would have said,look you know, wasn't the best
look.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, she didn't come at me that way.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
If she would have coached you differently, you
still would have had theaspiration and you still would
have felt challenged, but youwould have felt more secure.
Probably would have got therefaster.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Absolutely.
And I will say, you know, it'sfunny that you mentioned that,
because now I reflect a lot onthose situations and I do think
to myself like what could havebeen a better way to handle that
from like the leadershipperspective?
Now, that agency also had thephrase trial by fire and I was
flat out told, told.
(13:06):
I was flat out told, this ishow we do it.
You will get thrown in and thenwe're gonna see if you can sink
or swim.
And you know, young Jenny tookthis as like a strategy, by the
way?
no, it's not.
This is a terrible idea.
This is awful.
But, like I truly was, like Iwas like, oh, all right.
I was like this is how's doneand I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it
and I'm gonna prove to everyonethat I'm going to be successful
(13:29):
here and I'm going to figurethis out, and that's just not
the way to go.
Now, granted, like, yeah, sure,I learned a lot, but that
wouldn't have been.
That's not nearly how I woulddo things now, and when I train
people now it's much more oflike I call them working
sessions.
I love doing working sessionswith people, like ask me
questions, like go through itand let me guide you as you go.
That's how you're going tolearn, and then you're not going
(13:50):
to make mistakes and you're notgoing to be stressed and have
anxiety all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, you know, the best leadership that I've seen
and just reflecting on thatorganization in particular, I
mean they were so high, thriving, but they literally had like a
template for executing prettymuch everything.
And if they didn't have it,they would together figure it
out and then make it happen.
But they would have a frameworkso someone coming in didn't
(14:14):
have to stumble through it.
And that's the worst thing tostumble through it and people
watch and then place judgmentand then you're put into a
category.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, you know that's not leadership, but but what
I've seen is where theorganization had the highest
response was having a templatefor, okay, this is how we
execute this particular project,right.
Okay, they do a post-mortemdebrief and it's a.
It's an effort where, walkingin, you have the playbook right
(14:46):
to execute and when you have theplaybook you can get the
workout faster and it's a lotcrystal right and it builds
confidence and it also withinthe organization, it builds
trust right.
I've been seeing someorganizations where people will
watch and then they'll swoop into save the day of what they
created, right.
And so and that creates a lot ofdistrust.
(15:07):
So you know, leadership matters.
You know I say it all the timeit really does.
And the workforce today?
They want to be in anenvironment where there's
authenticity, people mean whatthey say, where they can learn
and grow, where there's trustand where they feel they can
belong.
It's a little different thanwhen you and I were going
(15:29):
through.
Oh, it's totally different.
There's a job, go do it.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I'm telling you, man, I had some scary interviews in
the beginning where they werelike you will do extra hours and
you will be working until.
But at the time obviously Ididn't know any better.
I was like okay, absolutelyLike, this is what I got to do
to be successful.
I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Well, it's different now Folks coming in for
interviews.
You know, righties don't workover.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I mean right, work-life balance is like a real
, it's actual, real, it's realchecklist to it.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Right, good, you know I do.
I think having the balance isso important.
I know there's someorganizations where they have
their leaders take a day offjust to do something totally
different, just kind of reboot,refresh and keep the creativity
flowing, because if you're onthe grind all the time, there's
no way that you can reboot, stepback, reflect, analyze, because
(16:24):
you're always, you know, in thegerber wheel of things.
I think it's important to havea little bit of balance.
I work really hard to havebalance right.
Someone once told me and it wasreally good advice you have your
entire life to have a career,you have one opportunity to be a
parent and you know, as aworking mom, that was always a
(16:45):
juggle for me.
Oh my gosh.
I have to say, you know, I haveto stay until the end.
I have to go pick up mydaughter, you know, but I have
to stay until the end.
They're going to think that I'ma slacker, but I have to go
pick up my daughter, I shouldn'thave to choose, right.
And so you know, I doappreciate.
You know, the workforce todaywhere they're not going to
choose.
They're going to say, look, I'mgoing to give you my hall.
(17:07):
And oh, by the way, I got to gopick up my daughter, and so you
know, and I think that's smartfor For the employee and it's
also smart for the organization.
So the reality is that I trulybelieve people show up to give
their best.
You know, I really do, and forthe most part, most people give
you more than 40 hours a week.
(17:28):
Oh 100%, 100%, right, yeah.
So yeah, I think there arechallenges with the new
workforce, but I also appreciatea lot of the thought processes
with this new workforce.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
You know, I think it's.
I like the flexibility more nowand I will say this and I've
actually said this quite a bitto other folks too I think the
only reason why I was able togain the momentum and the
success that I was able to getwas because I was able to
transition to just fully workingfrom home, and I know that I
know deep in my soul like that'sthe only reason why I can
(18:02):
juggle and be able to beeverywhere that I am Because,
like what you just said, there'scalls that run all the way to
you know the 530 mark and I'mlike my child has an event or
whatever they need to be at atlike 545.
So that means now, and it wasfunny like I was telling one of
my team members the other day itwas like 1230 afternoon and
(18:24):
we're just taking a, just a chat, like like you said one on one
call just to chat, like seewhat's up and check in.
And I said I was like Look, Ihope you don't mind this.
I was like I have to cookdinner while you're on the phone
with me and she was like it's1230.
And I said I'm like I'm likethe kids get home at four.
They have activities at 530.
I have a call until fiveo'clock.
That means that that will onlygive me 20 minutes maybe to get
(18:47):
everybody fed and then back outthe door and I'm, like my
husband's here and he helps,like absolutely, but I need to
do my part and show up and like,make sure that they have food
so that he can deal with thatpart.
It's a partnership of makingsure things are flowing.
But that juggle for for workingmoms is is very, very real and
it's very intense.
There's a lot of days too,where, if I know I have a busy
(19:11):
day and I know that it alsoincludes kids' activities, I'll
get up and start working at 4.30in the morning because I know
that that's the only way that Ican feasibly fit everything in
that has to get done and I'mdedicated to both parts of my
life.
I'm very dedicated to my kidsand I don't want them to.
There was for a very long timethey only saw me working and it
(19:33):
was a consistent like they wouldget very upset because they
knew mommy was working all thetime and there was constant
conference calls.
And that was back when I feltlike I had to overcompensate so
much because I had three smallchildren and I have.
I've had clients tell me, well,you can't do your job because
you're a mother, you can't dothis job because you know you're
(19:56):
not going to.
You're oh, that must be whyyou're not doing well.
And I've yeah, I've had clientstalk to me like that.
I remember I'm like I am doingmy job well, like I have
children, but that does notaffect my ability to be a
professional here and so I'mvery cautious.
It took me a long time and aboutI think it was I was 37 or so
(20:18):
when I had that epiphany momentof I only have one shot at being
a mom and it like it, kind oflike it hit me like a ton of
bricks.
I was put on this project and Iwas like stuck on it for like
three weeks.
I had said I couldn't handle it.
I said my workload was alreadytoo full.
But you know, as you know, likewhen you're good at your job,
it's like being you know thepunishment for being good,
(20:40):
you're going to get more stuff.
And I was put on this reallyintense project for like three
weeks.
I was just on it and my bosswas nowhere to be found.
She kind of just floated offinto the abyss.
She should have been handlingit but she just kind of left me
to deal with it and me beingdedicated to my team, I couldn't
just let them flail about.
(21:01):
I had to do it.
So for three weeks I didn't seemy kids, like I was working from
home, but my husband was homewith them.
He it was summertime, so he wasin the pool with them and
hanging out with them and doingall the fun stuff.
And I was stuck in my officeand when it was all done, I
remember like I came out of theoffice and they were like, are
you done?
Like, are you finally done?
They were like bigger and I waslike and my whole heart like
(21:31):
totally crushed.
And I remember like in thatmoment saying like I'm not doing
this anymore, like for work,I'm, yes, I'm valued, but I'm
also replaceable.
I'm not replaceable here athome.
So it's that very there's avery serious dance that women
have to do to like balance bothof those worlds.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, you know, I went through that, that, that
same process, and when myyoungest was, I think Athena was
about, I think she was eight, Ithink it was eight, but she was
, you know, joking, and she was,this was my mommy, and she said
she had a, um, a little cup andthe cup was the phone and she
was just talking, talking, wait,wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold
(22:11):
on, hold on, and she keptputting the thing yeah, and you
know, I just said cried, I waslike that is not I am.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
They do that to me too, but it was.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
But you know it's, you're right, it is a juggle.
And I will say one of thethings that I am so grateful for
I really have a good villagearound me and there's no way I
could have done half the thingswithout the village, my family
and friends, because we cannotdo it all and I think there's an
expectation that we do it alland I don't think people
(22:43):
understand all that goes into it.
I mean, I always say I have theutmost respect for stay-at-home
moms.
That is the hardest job.
Oh, my gosh, that is thehardest job.
And I will take someone thathas been a stay-at-home mom over
a bunch of other candidates,because I know the nuances that
they balance, juggle, makedecisions and multitask and lead
(23:04):
.
You think about all thedifferent dynamics that go into
a day.
Some of those dynamics exist inthe workplace and I do think we
need to give each other moregrace.
I really do.
It's so easy to say, oh, Iwould do this if I were you.
No, you would not.
Yeah, no.
So I think we need to give eachother grace and it is a juggle,
(23:27):
right, and it's not easy.
There are some things I didextremely well and then there
are some things I just totallybombed right.
And when we're parents, youknow it's not like there's this
book, I don't care what DrSpock's is, no, I always say Dr
Spock never met my kids.
So you know, there's somethings we know will work and
then there are just some thingswe know just will not.
(23:48):
We got to figure it out andeach child is different.
They have different needs,different love languages.
And my one daughter, it's timethat's really important.
So I need to sit still and notmultitask in front of her.
Yeah, they get offended, right,and my parents multitask all
the time.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I don't remember a sit down and now, like I don't
never even said anything.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
But you know, like these, just these kids are
different.
So, but my youngest is totallydifferent, right, she just wants
to know one, two, three.
Okay, can I go now?
You?
know and they just havedifferent needs.
So understanding those dynamicstoo are are important, even
with you know some of the thingsthat I create.
I have my kids in mind.
I try to create within thespace of what I'm doing.
(24:34):
I try to incorporate them or atleast connect in, because
they're learning from us.
They're learning how to beentrepreneurs.
They're learning how to bebusiness people.
They're learning how to have astrong work ethic.
Yes, they're learning all thesethings right, and a good work
ethic is very.
They're learning all thesethings right and a good work
ethic is very important, nomatter what people do.
However, they're also learninghow to be on a grind without
(24:54):
balance, and so it's importantthat we kind of figure out how
to balance that out and we'restill trying to figure that out
too.
Right, but I think there's anexpectation of moms that are
just higher.
Yeah, like my daughter, what doyou mean?
Why can't you?
Well, what do you mean?
This drives me crazy.
(25:14):
I'm like what are you talkingabout?
Of course, you know I need todo this first before I do that,
but I think, because we do itall, they feel we can really do
it all, and so they don't see orunderstand the work that goes
into doing it all.
I now spend more timeexplaining hey, in order for me
to do this, I have to do this.
(25:35):
You know I didn't go to schoolstraight through in my younger
years.
You know I'm 58.
So in my 40s I went back toschool to get my MBA.
In my 50s I went back to schoolfor a PhD.
So these are different cyclesof time.
And so it's interesting.
(25:58):
Achieving my MBA, my daughteronly saw the output of that my
PhD, because it was during COVID.
You know the output of that myPhD, because it was during COVID
.
She saw the work that went intoit different, and that's when
it dawned on me they need toreally understand the work that
goes into it.
And so she saw.
(26:19):
You know, there'll be days Inever move from my chair.
I'm just reading andresearching and typing and
writing.
She's like what's wrong withyou?
I said, oh, can you give mesome water?
But you know.
But she saw and there was a lotof hard work and tears too.
It was just like what do youmean?
You marked up my paper.
This is a great paper.
But you know she saw the workand the rigor that went into
(26:42):
that as well to achieve thataccomplishment, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I like that.
It's interesting because I'mdoing the same approach with my
kids.
Like I'll explain to them likein detail and it's actually very
funny because we've been doingthat since they were little Like
, since they could talk myhusband and I explain things to
them in detail.
So you imagine, like a littlethree-year-old sitting there and
I'm like listen, mommy has todo this, this and this.
Okay, and in order to do allthese things, then we can do
(27:14):
that.
And they're like okay, mommy,you know, but because we've been
doing it for forever, they theydo understand and they have a
little bit more of a grasp oflike.
For example, if I'm having, ifI've had just a lot of phone
calls throughout the day,no-transcript diligence there.
(27:34):
But when you are a servantleader, it you actually have a
lot more on your plate.
So there's there's amisconception of like, oh, like
when you're in a leadershipposition, like you're just
delegating and delegating,that's it, and you walk away.
And that's really not the case,because now you're responsible
for people and you actually workharder because you need to make
sure that you're taking thesepeople under your wing and
really teaching them properly.
So I'll get to the end of theday sometimes and I will feel
(27:58):
like I've given all I've gotalready.
But that can't be the casebecause I have three children
that are looking to me foreverything for this moment, and
I know I only have a couple moreyears of this.
I'm everything, yeah.
So I take that really seriously.
So I get, but I get to the endof the day sometimes and I
forget.
I don't remember what activitywe're going to.
(28:20):
I think it was like religiousclass, I think it was a religion
class and it was like fiveo'clock or it was 5 30.
Cause we were late and I'mrushing them over to the thing
and all three of my kids talk atthe same time.
They have no regard for eachother.
They will all be talking to me,but all at the same time.
And I, I turned, and the musicwas on the car too.
So I turned the music off.
I was like please, I need all ofyou to just be quiet for the
(28:42):
rest of the car ride.
I was like just don't talk.
I was like I'm I'm so sorry, Iknow mommy's being mean right
now, but please, please, just bequiet.
And it was like really quiet.
And then, all of a sudden, myson was like wait for how long?
And I was like, just just.
And then, like one of hissisters was like shh, mommy said
to be quiet.
He's like I'm trying to figureout how long.
(29:02):
And then he started going backat me and I was like, oh my God,
clarity, that's all.
He was like, I just need it, Ineed a timeframe.
He's very yeah, he's my, he'smy litigator.
He's like going to be.
I think he's going to end upbeing something in that capacity
, because everything you say tohim he comes back.
He's like okay, but what?
If?
(29:22):
Right, If I do it like this andmaybe like this, like, then I
can do this.
And we're like, oh my God.
He told me the other day, likelike what it was, and he was
like yeah, but it's okay,because I do this, because and
Bobby lets me do it because he'stired and he doesn't want to
argue with me, so he knows, Iknow I'm gonna be able to do
this.
And I'm like oh, you've alreadygot us figured out.
(29:49):
Regarding servant leadership,though, because that is, I think
, a fairly new term in thebusiness world Not new all the
way new, but I don't feel likeit's used as much, is it?
Am I right in saying that?
Because I've talked about thisa little bit and people seem to
look at me like I'm crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
So I think people struggle with the word servant.
So I've heard a lot of folkssay service leadership.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Okay, I think people struggle with the word servant,
so I've heard a lot of folks sayservice leadership.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I think people struggle with the word servant
and the concept itself has beenaround for a long time.
But the reason why I am a fan,of course, of servant leadership
or service leadership is I dothink there's something to the
way that employees want to beled today, and a servant leader
(30:30):
will look at the team, thedynamics of the team, the
nuances of the team and look athow can I get the best out of
this group and how can I helpcultivate, evolve and help folks
transform or even grow in theircareer trajectory right.
So that's a little different.
That's where you're literallytaking the time to get to know
(30:51):
the person you know.
Jenny, I want to get tounderstand.
Well, how do you like to learn?
Tell me a little bit about yourbackground, because that has a
lot of impact and influence tohow you will approach your work.
Right Versus.
Here's the task get it done,and I don't care what you do
Monday through Friday orSaturday or Sunday.
I think we'll have a little bitmore still business focused.
(31:13):
Right, it doesn't take awayfrom the business focus and I
think sometimes people kind ofget that confused, but it's not.
Actually they're very focusedon the business outcome, but
they're also focused on okay,these are the people that are
going to get this work out thedoor.
Let on, okay, these are thepeople that are going to get
this work out the door.
Let me see how I can help themhave clarity, understanding, but
(31:33):
also, what are their drivers?
How can I help them havesuccess?
How can I give them feedback tohave success?
Right, and there's more of aninvestment in the person's
development, right?
So, there, there, there is alittle bit of that.
I found that when I wasresearching servant leaders, the
ones that really stood out werethe ones that took that extra
(31:55):
step.
Servant leaders there's thesedifferent characteristics, and
awareness is one.
I think it's more than that.
The ones that really had themost success had more than
awareness.
They were almost accountable totheir team.
They were accountable todeveloping, you know, their,
their folks, and so that's alittle bit different than having
(32:17):
awareness or cultural awareness, something that that's more of
a check the box to me.
Having cultural awareness andthat's one of the
characteristics, but it's moreof having awareness that, yes,
you know, ginny might be from adifferent country, she has
different customs.
That's also wrapped in the wayshe approaches her work.
So how can we get the benefitof that?
(32:39):
Right, let me understand whatthat is, and that's a little bit
different.
And that builds trust.
The reason why that's importantis that that builds trust,
Right.
It also, I think, as leaders,it expands our learning, right.
I mean, everybody's had those.
I had one leader like he wouldonly talk like in jargon that he
got from MTV and I don't evenuse that jargon, right, but
(33:04):
that's the way I talk, right,and you know it was so off
putting, but it was what hethought was right, right, Right,
and it kind of gave him a passof really getting to know me and
I never used I mean, he wentfor months just having this
conversation this way.
I never used any of the wordsthat he used, right, but it was
(33:27):
cool to him and he thoughtthat's people like me, that's
the way we talked, but he didn'ttake any time to really know me
.
And so I think the workforcetoday has somewhat of that same
dynamic.
They want to know that theybelong, they want to know that
they can contribute and theywant to know that you have a
(33:47):
vested interest in their careerdevelopment.
Right, in order for that totake place, you have to have a
conversation with folks, right,and so I think when leaders at
least based on my observationwhen leaders take the time to
really understand the nuances oftheir folks, they not only have
a stronger team, but they havestronger trust, right, and the
(34:10):
dynamics are more authenticversus.
I've worked with folks that Imean they live in every
stereotype, and so you'reliterally working to prove
yourself, but you're alsoworking to prove that the
stereotypes don't exist.
That's exhausting, right, andso I think the workforce today
(34:31):
is just creating, and they'recreating, their own dynamic,
right Of how they want to, to bein the workplace, and I think
that's, I think that's fair,right, absolutely.
Look at you know you spend morethan 40 hours a week at a
company.
Oh yeah, you wanted to meansomething, you wanted to account
for something, right?
Yes, you get a paycheck, butyou're also creating.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
You're showing up.
Yeah, you're creating something.
It's interesting because thedynamics of an organization and
your team dynamics, the folksthat you're working with, it's
so important that you're workingwith, it's so important exactly
what you just said, there'slike valuable, like personal
transactions that are happeningin conversations.
Because, yes, like you'refocused on the work and I have
(35:15):
that problem, by the way, and Ithink it's because of you, know
how I came up in the industry Ihave that problem where I will
dive right into the project andI forget that like no, but
there's like, but there's peoplehere and you don't know how, if
they had a rough night, ifsomething happened or you know
what have you?
They're going through a breakup, like whatever it is, there's
people on the other end of thisline.
So, like, jenny, ease up alittle bit.
(35:36):
And so I actually have tomental check myself to like you
don't have to like dive right inand like make sure you ask
people like, oh, how was yourweekend, how are you doing?
Where I currently work?
I was really surprised becauseall the way up the ladder in the
organization we jumped on thiscall, there was all these top
people in and I was like, oh mygosh, I was new so I'm like, oh
(35:59):
my gosh, I got to make sure I'mon it and I know what I'm doing
here and they chatted for 10minutes about something really
silly and everybody was kind oflaughing and just joking around
with each other and I was likewe're on like a deadline, what
is going on?
Right now?
I was very like thrown offbecause I was used to and I've
always been used to, like goingdirect in here's the orders,
(36:20):
that's it, move on.
And it's actually taken me.
It's actually I've been with myorganization for two months and
it's taken me a minute to getused to the fact that, like
everyone, human humanly talks toeach other and it's not like
you know barking orders andthat's it.
Talks to each other and it'snot like you know barking orders
and that's it.
And so that is very interesting.
As personal as I am, it'staking me some getting used to
(36:41):
for that it's happening.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Life is happening.
Life is definitely happeningfor folks and sometimes you just
need a break.
Sometimes you just need a breakand people need to know that
they can feel safe in doing thatRight.
People need to feel safe.
Listen, I don't care how manyrobots you build, you still need
people to do the job Honestly,honestly being built these days,
(37:04):
but you still need you and itstill needs humanity.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yes, yeah, there's we still need to like, and even
now that and I mentioned, like Iwork from home.
I've been working from homesince 2017.
And I've noticed in thatdynamic and I mentioned this
earlier that I think people getused to that and then they
forget that there is a human onthe other side of the line.
That's a person and you know,when I was transitioning out of
(37:34):
my last agency, we, you know itwas a rough go and we kept
trying to make it work and itwas just a mismatch of
personalities.
It's really what it boiled downto.
It was really just a mismatchof personalities.
And I got to the end there andI remember thinking to myself,
like what are you doing?
Like if you were dating someonefor two and a half years and it
was this hard right, you wouldhave broken up with them already
(37:58):
.
So what are you doing here?
Like what are you trying toforce?
Like it's not working.
That is what it is.
And it was actually a little bitfunny, because when I resigned
that's actually exactly what Isaid.
I was like it's really just amismatch of personalities.
Like I love the work, I lovethe clients, like I love all the
stuff, but, like, when it cameto actually working in the
process of it, it was a totalmismatch.
(38:18):
And I walked away, though stillfeeling good, because I was
like it's okay, I'm not foreverybody and that has to be
okay.
I shouldn't be for everybody,and it goes to that authenticity
that you were talking aboutearlier.
If I'm really being authenticand true to myself and it's just
not working for wherever I am,that doesn't mean that they're
wrong or that I'm wrong.
(38:39):
It just means it's a mismatch.
That's okay, and you don't haveto continue to bang your head
against the wall.
You can just open the door andgo out the other side.
Like this doesn't have to be athing.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
And I think you say that I've seen that in other
organizations as well, where ifyou have to work really hard to
understand the company cultureand only one or two people
really understand the companyculture, it's probably the
culture that they created, right, and so you're never going to
be able to crack that code,because then that means there
will have to be change, right,and some companies, or whoever's
leading it, don't want thechange Right.
If you represent change, thenthey will continue creating
(39:18):
cycles that only they set theparameters around, right, and
that's not.
That's not a fun way to work.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
No and and and it's okay.
And that's the other thing too,myself included.
People get stuck being like Ican't leave because I've only
been here for six months andthat'll look bad on my resume
and I don't know so much thatthat's even like real anymore.
I think people understand nowlike that.
You know, sometimes things justdon't work out.
I have a couple places on myresume where I was only there
(39:48):
for a year or a little over ayear.
There was one place I was onlythere for like nine months and I
was like no, it's just notworking.
You know like it and it happensand you have to kind of just be
okay with it and go with it.
But it's still like a learningexperience.
I will say what um in one of myreally really early agencies um
was when I learned at first,learned about emotional
intelligence and you touched onit earlier, so I want to talk
(40:10):
about that.
I um I remember I was, I wasstruggling at this agency.
It was kind of toxic and but Iwas dealing with it Because,
again, I thought that I'd have achoice and so I was dealing
with it and I was just makingsure I kept my head down.
Do your job, you know, suck itup Because you need, you need to
work.
And so I just kept movingforward with it and in while I
(40:31):
was there, one of the humanresources person gave me this
book and she was like, check itout, it's really cool.
And I read it and it changedhow I approached everything,
because I can't remember whatthe book was called but I'm
gonna have to look it up and seeif I could figure out what it
was because I read the book andI remember going through it and
(40:51):
then afterwards I was able toalmost like out of a body,
almost like an out of bodyexperience.
Take a step back and justobserve the room.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
And and pick up on cues, that it's in the tone of
voice, it's in the eye contact,it's in the mannerisms, it's in
the facial expressions, likethere's so much more being
communicated than what's comingout of our mouths.
And you can observe it virtuallytoo.
So I'm 100% virtual, and whenI'm speaking with clients, I can
(41:22):
see it.
I can just see it on theirfaces and I can sense their
energy through the call.
That's part of why I'm able tobe doing well know, doing well
at my job, because I can pick upon these cues.
And something that I'vedeveloped over the past 18 years
was being able to foster trustwith clients and being able to
(41:43):
have, like, make sure theyunderstand, like I'm here for
you, I'm here to elevate you, sotell me what you need and I'm
going to show up for you.
Not everybody is very directand you kind of have to feel it
out, but emotional intelligenceis something that, like, I've
talked to people about quite abit, to say, like, if you don't
know anything about it, youreally should start researching
it and start looking things up,because this is like a really
(42:05):
crucial thing for us.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
And having empathy.
I agree, you know I think theworld needs a lot more of what's
going on now.
But you know, I think for someit might be a reconditioning
right, because you know we werejust talking about how we kind
of grew up in the workplace andit's different now where the
(42:27):
workforce today they look forthe EQ and empathy first.
So you know how leaders leadwith that, which is really
critical for some.
Yeah, and not saying that onestyle is, I want to make sure
I'm clear.
One style is not better thanthe other.
You do need all work stylesdepending on the environment,
(42:51):
the company culture right in thebusiness.
You do need all styles on theenvironment, the company culture
right In the business.
You do need all styles.
What's important is knowing howto adapt to the team that
you're leading right, so it'snot forcing the team to conform
to the leader style.
The leader has to be a littleagile and get the best out of
(43:11):
their team right, and so thatsometimes creates a pivot for
them.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
And that takes time too.
I mean, this is not, like youknow, you rip the bandaid off
and everything is all well andgood.
It's a consistent.
As you said earlier, it startswith the leader and the leader
setting the example, but therehas to be a consistency of
making sure that it's understood, Like I'm setting this example
but I expect this from my peopleand really like paying
(43:39):
attention and digging in witheach person and making sure you
get to know these people.
And you know I follow GaryVaynerchuk I don't know if
you're familiar with it, so Iactually worked at the bank next
to the wine store that hisfamily owned and I remember,
like I would, I was banking, Iwas doing the bank transaction,
(44:00):
I was like 19.
And obviously I didn't know,like he wasn't anybody at that
point.
And it was very funny to mebecause, like several years
later, a friend of a friendhands me this book, was like hey
, like read this book by thisguy and I started reading it and
I was like wait, I, I know thisperson, so I've actually paid
attention to his careertrajectory and he talks quite a
(44:22):
bit about, like you know, hetalks to his people, he makes it
a point to have conversationeverybody.
He talks to everybody, itdoesn't matter what level they
are.
He makes sure that he talks toeverybody and he impress, matter
what level they are.
He makes sure that he talks toeverybody and he impresses upon
his organization what he expectsfrom people.
And that's how people show up.
You know a nod to also like mycurrent boss, because she shows
(44:47):
up the way she does, with somuch emotional intelligence and
she does care so much about theteam and because she is a
servant leader hands down,because she shows up like that,
I actually show up more becauseI know how hard she's working on
things and I know what she'sexpecting and because I'm seeing
that I actually will pressmyself harder to make sure that
(45:10):
I'm doing better so that I cansupport her and the team shows
up more.
Yeah, yeah.
And it has this beautiful likewaterfall effect make sure that
I'm doing better that so that Ican support her and the team
shows up more.
Yeah, yeah.
And it has this beautiful likewaterfall effect of like we're
all showing up because we needto work, we're here to support
each other and at the end of theday, before everybody's logging
off, everyone checks in hey,are you okay.
Does anyone need anythingbefore I go?
Are we all good?
Does anyone have late nightwork?
(45:31):
It's a beautiful thing to say.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I totally agree with that Tenia.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
do you have, if you had something that you'd want to
say to the listeners from thisconversation, an important
highlight that you think wouldbe a key takeaway?
What would it be?
I like to do this to all of myguests, by the way, and everyone
comes out with somethingtotally different.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
I think the world is so polarized now I think we need
to give each other more grace,and if a moment in time can
create an energy of intensity Iwon't give it a label then I
would think that anothermovement can create something
(46:19):
positive.
So I would like to createsomething positive and I think,
in the workplace, just a simplehey, can I help you out with
this?
Right, if we whether you're aleader or not take the time to
help someone else do their jobbetter, you'll have a stronger
workplace and also the humanityin us comes out right, and I
(46:42):
would like to have a movementlike that.
How can we help each other bebetter and how can we help our
work environment be better?
We help our work environment bebetter, right, and sometimes it
just might be thank you, youdid extremely well and I
appreciate the work that youproduced today.
(47:03):
Or I appreciate the things thatyou did, or thank you for the
information you gave me.
It helped me do my job better,or, you know, it might be a
little better outcome if you dothis.
Do you mind if I show you Right?
I just think if we start usingdifferent language, I think
we're in such a state to whereeverything is you versus me.
(47:24):
I'm right.
You're wrong, up versus downthat we're not looking for
commonalities and we have morecommonalities in common.
We have more in common than wedo different Right, and there's
nothing wrong with in common.
We have more in common than wedo different right, and there's
nothing wrong with beingdifferent right.
Different is good, but when youlook at common, what you have
in common, you will accept moreof what is different, and so I
(47:47):
think our focus is in the wrongplace, and if we're going to
truly rise to the occasion ofwho we all are, then part of
that is how we show up, you know, and so I would like to see
more of that.
The last piece in my book,servant Leadership, I talk a lot
(48:07):
about how, having a servantleadership mentality and
mentoring, how one could do that, and I literally wrote the book
that way so a person wouldn'thave to read through chapters
and chapters just to know, oh,I'm only supposed to do this.
Okay, I literally wrote bothbooks and how to give feedback,
because those are the twofeedback, and every company has
(48:29):
been like the most painfulprocess for folks.
How do I?
I don't want to tell someone.
I don't want to, I don't wantto get bad news, and so I
created a really simple to,really just from the things that
I've been doing my entirecareer.
But I wanted something that anysort of leader, any stage,
wherever they are, I could justpick it up and say, okay, this
is how I can walk through aconversation and be productive.
(48:52):
But it starts with us andwhat's the name of the book?
So I have two.
There's the book on servantleadership.
It's Eight Essential Steps toInspire Others and Build a
Thriving Workforce.
It's a leadership advantage.
It's such a long title, I know.
And then the other book is theFeedback Blueprint, unlocking
(49:15):
the Power of ConstructiveInsights.
You know, I think both offervery simple tools.
At least I wrote it so that itwas easy to understand.
There is some academic aspectsto it, just to kind of give some
of the science behind.
You know how people hear, howpeople see things, and talk a
lot about Chihari's window aswell, which is kind of a concept
(49:36):
of how you see yourself and howothers see you, which you don't
see, which are your blind spots, and so I think both offer the
reader one.
You don't have to read throughpages and pages of work, but it
gives tools as well, so someonecould take it and use it right
away.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
And I will say this listeners, I'm going to link
those books in the episodedescription and what I'd like to
highlight here is you don'thave to be in a leadership
position to learn from thesebooks.
So even if you're like freshstarting out and you know you're
very junior and just trying to,you're figuring your way out,
these kind of this kind ofliterature will help ground you
(50:17):
in really good practices forcommunication and inter office
communication and how to handlesituations.
You could always manage up that.
That's like a.
That's a very serious thing Imanage up consistently.
Like that's a really big dealand I want to advise, like, if
you are starting out in anyindustry, this is going to be
anything, because in allindustries you have to
(50:38):
communicate.
These kinds of books are reallyimportant.
So I am going to link the booksin the podcast description so
you can take a look at them,because that, if you really
looking to further your careerlike this is it.
This is the way to besuccessful and it may not be the
most popular aggressive, butyou don't always have to be the
aggressor.
Like.
This is just a way to go aboutit, where you can really find
(51:00):
some really good gold nuggetsthere and I want to really call
that out.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
And then my website, my blog.
I deliberately put out almostevery other day, but I put out
content so leaders can just gosomewhere and get quick
information Right.
It's free and sometimes leadersjust need hey, what do I do?
What do I say?
Speaker 1 (51:24):
And so I try to create that content in my blog.
And is that on leadership wise,leadership wisecom, leadership,
awesome, tanya, thank you somuch for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
This has been such a pleasure I would literally hold
you hostage all day and hang outwith you, that's.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
that's been such a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
I would literally hold you hostage all day and
hang out with you.
That's where I'm at at thispoint.
I'll just bring the kids over.
We can just run everywhere.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
It's okay.
Kids come over all the time.
It's fine, they're cool,they'll hang out.
Thank you so much for joiningme today, and listeners, thank
you for hanging out with us.
We will catch you on the nextone.
Take care, talk soon.
Thank you.
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