November 7, 2025 • 25 mins
Purpose-driven nonprofit leader Alison Nakamura takes us on her journey of transformation, sharing the pivotal moment at age 30 when she abandoned her successful Manhattan PR career to pursue social work—a decision that seemed financially risky but spiritually essential. With remarkable candor, she reveals how growing up between two parental influences, her nurse mother's service-oriented values and her father's traditional success metrics created an internal tug-of-war that eventually led to her breaking point.
"I remember going to Ann Taylor and putting on this weird gray suit and going to interviews in the city when I was like 19. And I was like, this could not be farther from who I am," Alison confesses. That disconnect eventually became too powerful to ignore, leading to a career pivot that would completely reshape her life's trajectory.
For anyone standing at the crossroads of comfort and calling, security and purpose, or expectation and authenticity, this conversation offers both permission and practical wisdom. Listen in and discover how stepping into your pivot, however frightening, might be the most expansive move you'll ever make.
Guest Bio:
Alison Nakamura Netter is a purpose-driven nonprofit leader with a proven track record in advancing gender equity and reproductive health and rights. She currently serves as Executive Director of ZanaAfrica Foundation, an organization that supports girls in Kenya from adolescence to adulthood—ensuring they have the knowledge, resources, and agency to shape their own futures.
With 18 years of experience across domestic and international causes, Alison has led initiatives to combat sex trafficking in Cambodia, address food insecurity, and promote diversity and inclusion in the arts in New York City. Her multifaceted background in fundraising, nonprofit management, strategic communications, and social work equips her with a unique skill set to lead sustainable, community-driven change.
Alison’s commitment to service started early, teaching English to Haitian immigrants preparing for their U.S. citizenship exams and volunteering at a hospital providing companionship to marginalized patients. Those experiences shaped her values and continue to guide her leadership today.
She holds a BA in Sociology from Northeastern University and a Master’s in Social Work from Hunter College’s Silberman School of Social Work. Alison is deeply committed to supporting organizations and solutions that create lasting, sustainable impact.
She lives in New York with her husband, son, and their goldendoodle, Molly. When she’s not working, you’ll find her spending time with friends and family, exercising, and spending time in nature.
Connect with Alison:
Connect with Theresa and Ivana:
Theresa, True Strategy Consultants: tsc-consultants.com
LinkedIn @treeconti, Insta @tscconsultants
Ivana, Courageous Being: courageousbeing.com
LinkedIn @ivipol, Insta @courbeing
SITP team, Step Into The Pivot: stepintothepivot.com
LinkedIn @step-into-the-pivot, YouTube @StepIntoThePivot
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:05):
Hello, everybody.
Welcome to this week's episodeof Step Into the Pivot.
We are so happy to have youhere.
And we are also so happy to haveAlison Nakamura Netter with us.
Allison, it's so nice to meetyou.
Thank you for being here today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so delighted to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (00:23):
Yeah, I'm super excited about this conversation.
Um, and people can read your bioin the notes, but you know,
you're really, I love whatyou've written here, you know,
that you're a purpose-drivennonprofit leader.
Um, you know, you are currentlyexecutive director of Xana
Africa Foundation, um, whichsupports girls in Kenya from
(00:43):
adolescence to adulthood.
Um, I I love some of thosethings and some of your
experience with all kinds ofcause causes like um combating
sex traffic, trafficking inCambodia, food insecurity, um,
you know, those kind of thingswhich are which are super
important.
So I'm really excited to hearyour story today.
(01:03):
So, Evana, I'm gonna let you uhtake over and do uh talk a
little bit more about Allison.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Thank you, Theresa, and hi Allison.
So great to be here with you.
So delightful.
And, you know, we share apassion for a lot of the items,
concepts, ideas, and thenpractices and actions to address
some of the issues that Teresajust spoke into.
I love serving on the XanaAfrica board alongside with your
(01:35):
amazing leadership as someonewho really makes things happen.
And I'm bringing that up becausethis is how we met.
Um without going into too muchdetail there, because this is
going to be about you and yourpersonal story.
I wanted to highlight how muchuh passion we have, both of us,
(01:57):
and how much time we've spentessentially looking at and
talking about the idea that itis, you know, fundamentally
important for the health andwellness of the whole world to
invest time, energy, resourcesin equipping girls with the
tools that they need to safelynavigate puberty, and as you, as
(02:18):
I've heard you say, unlock theirpotential.
And then also, you know, this isreally all about everybody's,
you know, control over bodiesand decisions and future.
And um, I just absolutely love,you know, sitting down with you
and talking about all these bigpicture conversations.
But I know that one of thereasons you're so, you know,
(02:38):
good at what you do is becauseyou come from it supported by
your own experiences, your ownstory, and your own, you know,
life events that have shapedyou.
And we're looking forward tohearing from you on this podcast
about exactly that.
So tell us about some of themajor pivots that you've
(03:01):
experienced that you would sayhave shaped you the most.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
Yeah.
Um, thank you so much, Ivana.
These are such good questions.
And I'm just so happy to be hereto share a little bit about my
story in the hopes that it couldpotentially inspire someone else
to kind of lean into their ownpurpose and their own potential.
Um, I would say one of thebiggest pivots I've had was
changing careers at age 30.
(03:25):
Um, I'm 47 now.
So at the time, 30 felt like soold.
And I realize now that'ssomewhat laughable because you
know, it you're relatively youngat that age.
But I had been working in publicrelations.
So I was in a kind of a fasttrack kind of corporate path
where I was working in marketingcommunications for a PR firm,
(03:46):
um, doing PR from everythingfrom baby luxury, baby fashion
to luxury goods.
I got to go to the AcademyAwards and be on the red carpet
and be with celebrities and allthis work, while it was kind of
fun and exciting for someone whois in their 20s and approaching
30, it was really just notaligned with my values.
I felt like it was just somewhatvacant in ways.
(04:10):
Um, and so I decided at thattime to pursue a degree in
social work.
Um, and I think what felt reallyscary about it is that I was
living in Manhattan at the time.
I think social work as a careeris known not to be financially
lucrative.
And so there was a lot of riskthat went into that and a lot of
fear that went into it.
But I really knew that there wassomething internally guiding me
(04:33):
that was really aligned with myvalues that led me to pursue
this career.
And, you know, I did it and Inever looked back.
But it was really, really scaryat the time and really a turning
point in my life.
I would say, you know, doingthat pivot of changing my career
and then becoming a mother weretwo of the biggest changes in my
life that um brought me to whereI am today.
SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
So well, I was gonna say that, you know, so many
women, like you talking aboutthis, I think it's so important
because so many women are scaredof that, right?
Scared of changing careers,scared of all those kind of
things.
So, can you talk a little bitmore about how that, you know,
moved you forward into more of apersonal growth, you know,
(05:16):
emotional health journey, right?
Just made you more who you are.
Because I think from what Iheard from you so far, is you
really kind of listened to yourcalling.
You listen to what feltimportant to you.
So can you talk a little aboutthat?
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, what I wanted to add isthat, you know, as a child, I
always wanted to help others.
So there was something, youknow, in part in me that always
felt kind of like a seeker inmany ways.
And I to this day I still kindof consider myself a seeker.
Um, and helping others was thiskind of value that was instilled
to into me by my mom.
(05:53):
Um, and she kind of had that oldkind of adage, there before the
grace of God, go I.
So anytime she was in her careeras a nurse, um, she was always
wanting to help people.
She would always say, Therebefore the grace of God, go I,
right?
You could be that person.
I am you, and you are me.
Um, and I think for me, when Iwas in my 20s and kind of
struggling with anxiety and allthese fears around what I would
(06:16):
be, I was drawn back to thatphrase over and over and over
again.
Um, and when I decided to makethat pivot and kind of go back
to what my mom had taught me, Ifelt very much more in line with
myself.
And I felt like once I made thatpivot, I was really able to kind
of connect to this moreintuitive place in my life and
(06:40):
really remind myself that kindof that feeling of wanting to
pursue something or going backto like a certain thing that you
heard as a child, there'ssomething there that you can
really connect with as a person.
And it kind of will help you tofeel more aligned with yourself
and your decision.
So deciding to make that journeywhile it was scary at the
beginning, ultimately it led meto a much stronger place of
(07:01):
empowerment, of agency, ofrealizing, you know, that
feeling that I had, that callingthat I had, it was worth
pursuing, right?
Because I sometimes I think aspeople, as women, as
individuals, you're like, well,I have a curiosity to pursue
something.
But then there's these otherthoughts that will come in.
Well, what if it doesn't workout?
What if you don't make enoughmoney?
What if it doesn't align with X,Y, and Z?
(07:22):
Or the, you know, maybe thesepreconceived notions of who you
should have been, right?
Oh, you should go into finance,you should become a lawyer, you
should become a marketingexecutive.
But those things I didn't neverreally wanted to do, and all
those hats and those labelsnever really fit me.
So when I was able to reallyconnect with my inner voice and
kind of this curiosity and thiskind of like connect with my gut
(07:43):
feeling, my inner intuition, Iwas able to really grow as a
person.
So I think in terms of mypersonal growth and my mental
health and emotional health, um,it's it's really just was the
right choice for me.
So I feel really grateful tomyself and to the people around
me for guiding me on that path,particularly my mom, who really
instilled these values in me.
SPEAKER_02 (08:03):
So well, and I was also gonna say, too, as you were
talking, that, you know, one ofthe things I thought as you were
talking is sometimes we feellike we're here because it's
what the rest of the worldexpects from us, right?
It's where, it's where we almostfeel that the rest of the world
thinks we should be instead ofbeing more true to ourselves,
(08:24):
right?
Like that's what I was thinkingas you were talking, because I
think we get stereotype, and Idon't know if stereotype is
really the right word, Evie.
I I'd love for you to to tell mehere what you think.
But you know, I it's not reallyeven a stereotype, it's just
kind of what we think the worldexpects from us, and we and we
do that instead of what wereally have a passion for.
unknown (08:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Yeah, that was very much my experience.
Yeah, I and please add in, butthat was my experience coming
from particularly like there'stwo sides of my family.
So my mom was a nurse andpursued that a goal in nursing,
but really a focus on supportingmarginalized people.
So she worked in inner cities,and then as she developed in her
career, she worked at hospice,so doing end-of-life work.
Um, and so she always instilledin me, you can be whoever you
(09:10):
want to be, you can do anythingyou want to do.
She's a feminist withoutlabeling herself as a feminist.
You know, she comes from the 60sin that time.
But on the other side, my dad isa little bit more traditional.
And I think I was raised in ahousehold that was like, you
know, seek a perfection, aprofession, become a doctor,
become a lawyer.
And if you're not gonna do that,then you need to be at like the
head of whatever firm it is thatyou do.
(09:32):
So go into finance, go intomarketing, whatever that is, but
you have to succeed and go tothe top of that field that's
gonna be lucrative and have, youknow, very clear boundaries for
success and a clear pathway.
And I remember I even studiedfor my like series seven exam.
And I'm like, I it was, Iremember going to Ann Taylor and
putting on this like weird graysuit and going to interviews in
(09:54):
the city, like when I was like19.
And I was like, this could notbe farther from who who I am.
And I was trying to fit intothis, like, I'm gonna become a
stockbroker.
Like, I don't, it was so farfrom who I was and what I wanted
to be.
And so I think um, yeah, I thinkin terms of growth and kind of
(10:14):
growing as a person, I think youhave to really listen to that
inner voice because sometimes itjust doesn't fit.
You can put on the suit, you cando all these things, and it just
it's not right.
And you're gonna beuncomfortable and you're not
gonna feel powerful, and youprobably won't end up doing a
good job because you're gonna beso unhappy the whole time.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Yeah, I would love to talk about this a little bit
more because you said severalreally interesting things, and
you're using some words that arewe could, you know, we could mix
and match and move around, butit's really the energy that
you're talking about that makesthe difference.
And we often get folks on thepodcast commenting about this.
(10:53):
So I love sort of sort of from aconsistency of our conversation
perspective to unpack that withyou.
I also get a lot of thesequestions at Courageous Being,
like, how can I tell thedifference?
So I'm going back to that momentwhere you're, you know, you're
basically describing, and I'mnot saying that that's exactly
what happened, but kind of likeif I was making a movie about
this, I'd put you on the redcarpet and and have you
(11:14):
basically have your realizationabout this isn't for me, right?
At the moment when you're whereyou're there and you're in the
midst of all this, you know, bighype, but something doesn't feel
right.
And then later you say, okay,now I'm switching.
And there's, you know, you youtell us about Manhattan and um
what I would imagine is billpaying, right?
(11:35):
And how is that gonna work if Ipivot into social work?
So I'd love to hear you talkmore about these different
sensations basically that we endup experiencing that can feel
okay.
You said at one point scary.
It feels scary to switch, but itfeels so like that's me, because
(11:58):
this isn't me.
And then you said this wasn't,this was so uncomfortable.
You talked about, you know, thethe skirt and Ann Taylor and
series seven, and then feelingthe discomfort.
I feel like you're right herewith something that is
essentially the best advice wecan give people, but it gets
very elusive and it's hard toput it into you know a succinct
(12:20):
sentence.
Sometimes I'll say to peoplelike it will feel expansive as
opposed to contracting, or itwill feel it will feel like it's
really healthy, but it may notfeel easy, it may not feel
comfortable.
From your experiences, can youtell about this difference
between tell us more about thisdifference between this is good
(12:40):
for me versus this is reallytaking more than it's you know,
more than it's giving.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
That's such a good question because I think it's a
hard thing to figure out, right?
Like knowing the differencebetween these feelings, like in
your gut or these feelings ofpresence.
And it took me a while to get tothe point, and I'm still working
on it today, where I can kind ofdifferentiate between what's
maybe external or what'sunhelpful, between what is like
(13:09):
my inner calling and what I knowis right.
So you have to like sit withthose feelings for a while.
Um, but for me, I think I wasable to really learn to
understand myself because I tooka lot of time, you know, in
going to therapy.
And I think that, you know, Ihad someone who was an elder to
me who I still work with to thisday.
(13:30):
And I really think of her now asmore of an advisor or more of
like a almost like an extensionof family, even though those
like, you know, boundaries arestill very present in that she's
a practitioner and I'm herclient.
Um, but I had the advice of thiselder who really kind of helped
me to in through ourdiscussions, really helped me to
(13:53):
identify my inner voice and myinner direction.
And so when you say that whenyou're speaking with people that
you work with, Evie, is thatsomething will feel expansive?
Like I realize that I rememberwalking across Central Park from
my apartment on the Upper WestSide to the Upper East Side,
which is where my graduateschool was at the time, and
(14:15):
going into the school settingfor the first time and kind of
doing the meet and greet withall the other people.
And you're meeting people fromall over the world at various
life stages.
Who you have like a retiredattorney who wants to go into
social work, you have a youngperson straight out of college,
you have a mom with three kidswho wants to go into this.
So people at various life stagesfrom all walks of life, every
(14:35):
culture, international students,urban students, suburban
students coming in.
Um, and I just felt so at home.
So it was like this almost kindof like this like I can kind of
like drop everything in a way.
And it was scary because you'regonna have to, you at social
work school, you do a lot oflike inner work and group work
where you're really having tounpack a lot of stuff in order
(14:56):
to like be of service to others.
But I felt very much in theright place.
And you just kind of feel it inyour body.
You feel it in your comfortlevel, you feel it in your
energy, your heartbeat, your allof these things.
And so I think I'm now I'mforgetting your your question
that you asked, but I hope I'manswering it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
You're answering it, yeah, exactly.
The energy, the heartbeat, thebody.
And may I just add here, Teresa,because I I happen to know this
about Allison.
You um you work out a lot.
Yeah.
And you introduced me to amodality that is really
interesting from from this, youknow, kind of like combination
perspective of you know, payingattention to different bodies
(15:38):
while working out the physicalbody.
Can you connect what we'retalking about with the you know,
physical practice that you do ona regular basis?
SPEAKER_01 (15:46):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I do it every day.
So I do at least 20 minutes aday.
And it's this modality calledthe class.
So it's like mind, body, andspirit all kind of mixed into
one.
Um and do you want to justdescribe it, Evie?
Like how is that the so it's alot of like um releasing, like a
(16:07):
releasing of like letting go oflike what is not serving you,
and then creating the space forother things to kind of come to
you.
Would you say that's anaccurate?
SPEAKER_00 (16:16):
Yeah.
And here's what's really coolabout it, which is why I was
like, wait, what?
When you if you were to look atthe videos, let's say that we
follow on mute, they look likeyour traditional cardio or
strength uh training videos.
But if you turn on the sound andyou listen to the teacher,
(16:39):
everything, all the cueing andthe music, it's all intentional
and it's connected to themovement.
And so I've experienced, youknow, having done other forms
where there's like a disconnectbetween we're listening to a
random song, and then theteacher is really nice, but
they're just like saying thesemotivational things that are so
disconnected from how we'removing the body, they are
(17:01):
linking it in this modality.
And after the 20 minutes, itjust feels like you get a much
bigger bing for the for thebuck.
Is that how how you experienceit too?
SPEAKER_01 (17:13):
Yeah, yeah.
It's um, I don't even I rememberthe first time I went in studio
because it was in Tribeca, and Iused to live in Manhattan.
Now I'm out in the suburbs, butit was downtown New York in an
area called Tribeca where thestudio was.
And you're in a room with like30 people, and it everything is
really intentional.
I think there's even likecrystals in the floors when
Taryn designed it, likeenergetically to like ground the
(17:35):
space, and everything'sbeautiful and smells really
lovely.
And there's so much intention inthe actual space, but you're in
this room moving with all thesepeople in this way, and there is
such a powerful release ofmovement.
But like, but to your point,like the smells, the sounds, the
cueing of music, the themessages that they share, it's
(17:57):
all kind of designed to connectmind, body, and spirit, but also
have this beautiful physicalexperience at the same time.
So you're sweating, but you'realso feeling like you're
emotionally like cleansingyourself in some way.
I don't know how to describe it.
It's so funny when I talk topeople about it, they're like,
Are you in a cult?
I'm like, No, I swear I'm not.
But it's this amazing, powerful.
SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
Yeah, no, but you know, we've talked about that
before, but you know, foreverybody, that's their own
thing too.
Like, you know, I'm a bigwalker, like, and so for me,
sometimes it's a release just togo out there in nature, whether
I'm just listening to the soundsaround me, or I'm listening to a
podcast, or I'm listening tomusic, or I'm doing whatever,
right?
It it I think everybody can havetheir own version of that.
And I think that to me, it'salmost like a reset, right?
(18:41):
It gives me the opportunity toreset whatever that looks like,
right?
So yours might be different thanmine, which might be different
than Evie's, which you know,everybody has to experience that
in their own, in their own way.
And some, but it's such a greatpractice, is the word I'll use
for to do it no matter what thatlooks like.
(19:02):
For some people, it might beyoga or yeah, you know,
everybody has their own thing.
SPEAKER_01 (19:05):
Yeah, I have a friend who calls, she's like,
every day I have to do 20, 20minutes of joyful movement.
And so it's anything, be a walk,a walking with a dog, jumping
around her room with like musicglass, but it's like joyful
movement, right?
And so I when I don't create thespace to work out, I'm like, oh,
I'm just gonna go move.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
I'll like go play with my dog in the yard for 20
minutes or whatever it is, youknow, just step away from your I
think it's just the theintention to do it and the
doing, right?
It's not even just the attentionto it, it's that you have to do
that.
And and it's so good for you todo.
I mean, and it could be thatyou, you know, take those 20
minutes and go sit on the floorand play with your with your
(19:41):
child.
I mean, you know, just just toclear your mind of whatever's
going on.
So I I love that part of thisconversation.
Can we spend we're we're kind ofgetting down on time?
It goes so quickly.
Um, but I'd love to hear likethose aha revelations you've
had.
You've talked about a couple ofthings that have happened.
Can you just talk at a highlevel about some of those kind
(20:03):
of aha revelations?
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Um, yeah.
So I would say there's twothings.
Like one, through all of this,I've realized that like I'm a
seeker.
I'm like constantly like asking,okay, what is like the bigger
purpose here?
Or what is my place in all ofthis?
Meaning like the world.
Um, and which I my friend usedthat word with me like maybe
five years ago.
It was actually an old friend Ihadn't seen in so long.
(20:28):
We're at actually a mutualfriend's wake.
And I was like, oh, it's so niceto see you.
And she's like, it's so nice tosee you too.
Like we were always so fond ofeach other.
She was actually my brother'sex-girlfriend.
So it wasn't someone that I waslike seeing all the time.
And she was like, you know,she's like, you're a seeker like
me.
And I'm like, that's exactlywhat it is.
Like she just like it connectedthe dots for me.
And I was like, gosh, yeah,Deep, you're right.
(20:49):
Like, we are both this type of aperson.
And that's why we've always feltthis like really deep connection
every time we see each other.
And so that was one, because Iwas always kind of wanting more
than like what was prescribed tome, I think, in a way.
Um, and two, so that was oneaha.
And then two, it was that I canalways pivot again, right?
So it's like if I'm ever drawnto doing something else, or you
(21:10):
know, a creative pursuit, or,you know, hey, I want to write a
children's book, or whateverthat is, you can do those
things, right?
And the thing that is beingcalled to you is something that
you can pursue.
And if it keeps coming up againand again and again and you keep
getting these pings of like, oh,I kind of I think I want to
explore this thing.
It could be like starting agarden in your yard or whatever
it is, or it could be rightagain, writing a children's
(21:32):
book, or, you know, opening astore or whatever that is, you
can do it.
You can it made me realize I cando it.
I can do this thing that Idecide to put my mind to.
And if the intention is thereand it makes sense, that's
something that I can pursue.
So it just, I think it reallyhelped to build myself of like
my sense of personal agency.
So that pivot, that initialpivot of changing my career made
(21:54):
me realize that I can do thisagain and again and again and
again, should I choose to.
And then becoming a mother toojust makes you, I think for me
at least, it just felt moreexpansive.
You know, I my world grew in somany beautiful ways and it made
me realize so many more thingsare possible than I didn't know
were possible before.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
We could stop right here.
This is such a beautifulclosure.
And I would love it if you couldoffer some additional wisdom
from this platform.
So the position where you'recommenting on pivot that you
initiated, disruption that youcaused intentionally, because
(22:33):
you were noticing that somethingwas brewing that was not good
for you.
So you went, you so this thepivot that you were talking
about was something that wecould say you did have some
control over.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
And yet it was in response to something that you
were noticing, this is not good.
This is not gonna be good if Icontinue to just ignore
basically the signals that I'mgetting.
So I wanted to connect thosetwo.
Is the fact that you initiatedthis pivot and then had the aha
moment that you could pivotagain and again?
Is that helpful when you'rethinking about the pivots that
you've had in your life?
(23:06):
And we don't have to likedissect them, just big picture.
When you're thinking about thepivots that are, you know, the
ones that you didn't that withthat you don't initiate that,
you know, hit you, that show upand and they're unwanted.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Yeah, I think that going through, so this was like
um a self-directed pivot, right?
But I I hear what you're saying.
There's gonna be things thatcome up in life or things that
have come up in life that arenot self-directed pivots, right?
It's could be death, illness,some kind of calamity going on.
Um, yes, I think it actabsolutely has prepared me for
when those things happen, whenyou know things don't they come
(23:44):
out of the blue.
I was gonna say something else,but it's like not appropriate
for for YouTube or wherever thisbeing recorded.
Um, but yeah, I think it made merealize that like you, I have
the inner resources andcapabilities to manage whatever
situation is gonna come at me.
It might be difficult, it mightbe painful, it might be
exhausting, uh stressful, but itmakes you realize, I think once
(24:07):
you've kind of developed thatinner resource or inner guide
that you can handle what's gonnacome.
And it might be reallychallenging, but it's definitely
possible to overcome or seesomething through for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (24:21):
I love this.
Yeah, I love this conversationtoo.
When we could just go on and on,but unfortunately, we're out of
time.
I feel like it goes so quickly.
It really does.
It does, doesn't it?
Um, thank you so much, Alison,for being with us today.
I I think you there was a lot ofgreat little nuggets here that I
think our listeners can reallyuh take away with.
(24:45):
So I really, I, I really lovedit.
Uh Evie, what do you have toadd?
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
I want to say the words, Allison.
Thank you so much for this finalcomment and reply to my
question, answering our finalquestion, which we ask all
guests about how was this pivota step forward?
And we have this ritual.
It's kind of a thing that we doat the end.
And I I just love what youoffered here that when we are
(25:12):
brave and we initiate some ofthese self-directed pivots, and
then also even when we do someof the practices on a daily
basis, you mentioned 20 minutesof this, you know, intentional
movement.
It's gonna pave the way andprepare us for when an
unintended pivot takes place.
(25:32):
So, could we say that that's howyour pivot was a step forward?
Absolutely ritually close outour conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, it was a step forward.
Yes, I would I would say that'sexactly the case.
And it also, yeah, it justexpanded my world in so many
ways.
It just it was everything.
Um sorry, my phone is justringing.
So I apologize.
Um, but yes, a hundred percent,a hundred percent.
That's the way you just phraseit is spot on.
(26:01):
Um yeah, the pivot was the mostexpansive thing that I wouldn't
say has ever happened to me thatwas like self-directed, I guess.
I I caused it too.
It didn't happen to me.
I was a catalyst in that, but umyeah, expanded my world in in
ways I never thought possibleand allowed me to even see the
(26:22):
world, parts of the world thatI've never could imagine seeing
before, Cambodia, Kenya.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
Yeah.
And and and you know, it was itwas scary.
It's fear.
And and you know, but but like,and I talked to so many, so many
people, so many women who, youknow, are scared of doing
something like that, but findout at the other end that
they're way better, or you know,are in a in a position where um,
(26:50):
you know, they're really nothappy, but they don't really
want to do anything about it.
And sometimes they're forced to,or sometimes they make the
decision on their own and end upbeing much better for it.
Because I think if you if you dothat, your passion shows
through.
And it just, you know, and andevery bit of that just makes you
happier.
So yeah.
(27:11):
Awesome.
Well, thank you again for beinghere, Allison.
We really enjoyed ourconversation today.
And uh even and I uh uh thankeverybody for listening to us
today.
So um we will see you again in acouple weeks with another guest.
And remember, if you have apivot, step into it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Thank you both so much.
This was great.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome to this week's episodeof Step Into the Pivot.
We are so happy to have youhere.
And we are also so happy to haveAlison Nakamura Netter with us.
Allison, it's so nice to meetyou.
Thank you for being here today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so delighted to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (00:23):
Yeah, I'm super excited about this conversation.
Um, and people can read your bioin the notes, but you know,
you're really, I love whatyou've written here, you know,
that you're a purpose-drivennonprofit leader.
Um, you know, you are currentlyexecutive director of Xana
Africa Foundation, um, whichsupports girls in Kenya from
(00:43):
adolescence to adulthood.
Um, I I love some of thosethings and some of your
experience with all kinds ofcause causes like um combating
sex traffic, trafficking inCambodia, food insecurity, um,
you know, those kind of thingswhich are which are super
important.
So I'm really excited to hearyour story today.
(01:03):
So, Evana, I'm gonna let you uhtake over and do uh talk a
little bit more about Allison.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Thank you, Theresa, and hi Allison.
So great to be here with you.
So delightful.
And, you know, we share apassion for a lot of the items,
concepts, ideas, and thenpractices and actions to address
some of the issues that Teresajust spoke into.
I love serving on the XanaAfrica board alongside with your
(01:35):
amazing leadership as someonewho really makes things happen.
And I'm bringing that up becausethis is how we met.
Um without going into too muchdetail there, because this is
going to be about you and yourpersonal story.
I wanted to highlight how muchuh passion we have, both of us,
(01:57):
and how much time we've spentessentially looking at and
talking about the idea that itis, you know, fundamentally
important for the health andwellness of the whole world to
invest time, energy, resourcesin equipping girls with the
tools that they need to safelynavigate puberty, and as you, as
(02:18):
I've heard you say, unlock theirpotential.
And then also, you know, this isreally all about everybody's,
you know, control over bodiesand decisions and future.
And um, I just absolutely love,you know, sitting down with you
and talking about all these bigpicture conversations.
But I know that one of thereasons you're so, you know,
(02:38):
good at what you do is becauseyou come from it supported by
your own experiences, your ownstory, and your own, you know,
life events that have shapedyou.
And we're looking forward tohearing from you on this podcast
about exactly that.
So tell us about some of themajor pivots that you've
(03:01):
experienced that you would sayhave shaped you the most.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
Yeah.
Um, thank you so much, Ivana.
These are such good questions.
And I'm just so happy to be hereto share a little bit about my
story in the hopes that it couldpotentially inspire someone else
to kind of lean into their ownpurpose and their own potential.
Um, I would say one of thebiggest pivots I've had was
changing careers at age 30.
(03:25):
Um, I'm 47 now.
So at the time, 30 felt like soold.
And I realize now that'ssomewhat laughable because you
know, it you're relatively youngat that age.
But I had been working in publicrelations.
So I was in a kind of a fasttrack kind of corporate path
where I was working in marketingcommunications for a PR firm,
(03:46):
um, doing PR from everythingfrom baby luxury, baby fashion
to luxury goods.
I got to go to the AcademyAwards and be on the red carpet
and be with celebrities and allthis work, while it was kind of
fun and exciting for someone whois in their 20s and approaching
30, it was really just notaligned with my values.
I felt like it was just somewhatvacant in ways.
(04:10):
Um, and so I decided at thattime to pursue a degree in
social work.
Um, and I think what felt reallyscary about it is that I was
living in Manhattan at the time.
I think social work as a careeris known not to be financially
lucrative.
And so there was a lot of riskthat went into that and a lot of
fear that went into it.
But I really knew that there wassomething internally guiding me
(04:33):
that was really aligned with myvalues that led me to pursue
this career.
And, you know, I did it and Inever looked back.
But it was really, really scaryat the time and really a turning
point in my life.
I would say, you know, doingthat pivot of changing my career
and then becoming a mother weretwo of the biggest changes in my
life that um brought me to whereI am today.
SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
So well, I was gonna say that, you know, so many
women, like you talking aboutthis, I think it's so important
because so many women are scaredof that, right?
Scared of changing careers,scared of all those kind of
things.
So, can you talk a little bitmore about how that, you know,
moved you forward into more of apersonal growth, you know,
(05:16):
emotional health journey, right?
Just made you more who you are.
Because I think from what Iheard from you so far, is you
really kind of listened to yourcalling.
You listen to what feltimportant to you.
So can you talk a little aboutthat?
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, what I wanted to add isthat, you know, as a child, I
always wanted to help others.
So there was something, youknow, in part in me that always
felt kind of like a seeker inmany ways.
And I to this day I still kindof consider myself a seeker.
Um, and helping others was thiskind of value that was instilled
to into me by my mom.
(05:53):
Um, and she kind of had that oldkind of adage, there before the
grace of God, go I.
So anytime she was in her careeras a nurse, um, she was always
wanting to help people.
She would always say, Therebefore the grace of God, go I,
right?
You could be that person.
I am you, and you are me.
Um, and I think for me, when Iwas in my 20s and kind of
struggling with anxiety and allthese fears around what I would
(06:16):
be, I was drawn back to thatphrase over and over and over
again.
Um, and when I decided to makethat pivot and kind of go back
to what my mom had taught me, Ifelt very much more in line with
myself.
And I felt like once I made thatpivot, I was really able to kind
of connect to this moreintuitive place in my life and
(06:40):
really remind myself that kindof that feeling of wanting to
pursue something or going backto like a certain thing that you
heard as a child, there'ssomething there that you can
really connect with as a person.
And it kind of will help you tofeel more aligned with yourself
and your decision.
So deciding to make that journeywhile it was scary at the
beginning, ultimately it led meto a much stronger place of
(07:01):
empowerment, of agency, ofrealizing, you know, that
feeling that I had, that callingthat I had, it was worth
pursuing, right?
Because I sometimes I think aspeople, as women, as
individuals, you're like, well,I have a curiosity to pursue
something.
But then there's these otherthoughts that will come in.
Well, what if it doesn't workout?
What if you don't make enoughmoney?
What if it doesn't align with X,Y, and Z?
(07:22):
Or the, you know, maybe thesepreconceived notions of who you
should have been, right?
Oh, you should go into finance,you should become a lawyer, you
should become a marketingexecutive.
But those things I didn't neverreally wanted to do, and all
those hats and those labelsnever really fit me.
So when I was able to reallyconnect with my inner voice and
kind of this curiosity and thiskind of like connect with my gut
(07:43):
feeling, my inner intuition, Iwas able to really grow as a
person.
So I think in terms of mypersonal growth and my mental
health and emotional health, um,it's it's really just was the
right choice for me.
So I feel really grateful tomyself and to the people around
me for guiding me on that path,particularly my mom, who really
instilled these values in me.
SPEAKER_02 (08:03):
So well, and I was also gonna say, too, as you were
talking, that, you know, one ofthe things I thought as you were
talking is sometimes we feellike we're here because it's
what the rest of the worldexpects from us, right?
It's where, it's where we almostfeel that the rest of the world
thinks we should be instead ofbeing more true to ourselves,
(08:24):
right?
Like that's what I was thinkingas you were talking, because I
think we get stereotype, and Idon't know if stereotype is
really the right word, Evie.
I I'd love for you to to tell mehere what you think.
But you know, I it's not reallyeven a stereotype, it's just
kind of what we think the worldexpects from us, and we and we
do that instead of what wereally have a passion for.
unknown (08:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Yeah, that was very much my experience.
Yeah, I and please add in, butthat was my experience coming
from particularly like there'stwo sides of my family.
So my mom was a nurse andpursued that a goal in nursing,
but really a focus on supportingmarginalized people.
So she worked in inner cities,and then as she developed in her
career, she worked at hospice,so doing end-of-life work.
Um, and so she always instilledin me, you can be whoever you
(09:10):
want to be, you can do anythingyou want to do.
She's a feminist withoutlabeling herself as a feminist.
You know, she comes from the 60sin that time.
But on the other side, my dad isa little bit more traditional.
And I think I was raised in ahousehold that was like, you
know, seek a perfection, aprofession, become a doctor,
become a lawyer.
And if you're not gonna do that,then you need to be at like the
head of whatever firm it is thatyou do.
(09:32):
So go into finance, go intomarketing, whatever that is, but
you have to succeed and go tothe top of that field that's
gonna be lucrative and have, youknow, very clear boundaries for
success and a clear pathway.
And I remember I even studiedfor my like series seven exam.
And I'm like, I it was, Iremember going to Ann Taylor and
putting on this like weird graysuit and going to interviews in
(09:54):
the city, like when I was like19.
And I was like, this could notbe farther from who who I am.
And I was trying to fit intothis, like, I'm gonna become a
stockbroker.
Like, I don't, it was so farfrom who I was and what I wanted
to be.
And so I think um, yeah, I thinkin terms of growth and kind of
(10:14):
growing as a person, I think youhave to really listen to that
inner voice because sometimes itjust doesn't fit.
You can put on the suit, you cando all these things, and it just
it's not right.
And you're gonna beuncomfortable and you're not
gonna feel powerful, and youprobably won't end up doing a
good job because you're gonna beso unhappy the whole time.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Yeah, I would love to talk about this a little bit
more because you said severalreally interesting things, and
you're using some words that arewe could, you know, we could mix
and match and move around, butit's really the energy that
you're talking about that makesthe difference.
And we often get folks on thepodcast commenting about this.
(10:53):
So I love sort of sort of from aconsistency of our conversation
perspective to unpack that withyou.
I also get a lot of thesequestions at Courageous Being,
like, how can I tell thedifference?
So I'm going back to that momentwhere you're, you know, you're
basically describing, and I'mnot saying that that's exactly
what happened, but kind of likeif I was making a movie about
this, I'd put you on the redcarpet and and have you
(11:14):
basically have your realizationabout this isn't for me, right?
At the moment when you're whereyou're there and you're in the
midst of all this, you know, bighype, but something doesn't feel
right.
And then later you say, okay,now I'm switching.
And there's, you know, you youtell us about Manhattan and um
what I would imagine is billpaying, right?
(11:35):
And how is that gonna work if Ipivot into social work?
So I'd love to hear you talkmore about these different
sensations basically that we endup experiencing that can feel
okay.
You said at one point scary.
It feels scary to switch, but itfeels so like that's me, because
(11:58):
this isn't me.
And then you said this wasn't,this was so uncomfortable.
You talked about, you know, thethe skirt and Ann Taylor and
series seven, and then feelingthe discomfort.
I feel like you're right herewith something that is
essentially the best advice wecan give people, but it gets
very elusive and it's hard toput it into you know a succinct
(12:20):
sentence.
Sometimes I'll say to peoplelike it will feel expansive as
opposed to contracting, or itwill feel it will feel like it's
really healthy, but it may notfeel easy, it may not feel
comfortable.
From your experiences, can youtell about this difference
between tell us more about thisdifference between this is good
(12:40):
for me versus this is reallytaking more than it's you know,
more than it's giving.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
That's such a good question because I think it's a
hard thing to figure out, right?
Like knowing the differencebetween these feelings, like in
your gut or these feelings ofpresence.
And it took me a while to get tothe point, and I'm still working
on it today, where I can kind ofdifferentiate between what's
maybe external or what'sunhelpful, between what is like
(13:09):
my inner calling and what I knowis right.
So you have to like sit withthose feelings for a while.
Um, but for me, I think I wasable to really learn to
understand myself because I tooka lot of time, you know, in
going to therapy.
And I think that, you know, Ihad someone who was an elder to
me who I still work with to thisday.
(13:30):
And I really think of her now asmore of an advisor or more of
like a almost like an extensionof family, even though those
like, you know, boundaries arestill very present in that she's
a practitioner and I'm herclient.
Um, but I had the advice of thiselder who really kind of helped
me to in through ourdiscussions, really helped me to
(13:53):
identify my inner voice and myinner direction.
And so when you say that whenyou're speaking with people that
you work with, Evie, is thatsomething will feel expansive?
Like I realize that I rememberwalking across Central Park from
my apartment on the Upper WestSide to the Upper East Side,
which is where my graduateschool was at the time, and
(14:15):
going into the school settingfor the first time and kind of
doing the meet and greet withall the other people.
And you're meeting people fromall over the world at various
life stages.
Who you have like a retiredattorney who wants to go into
social work, you have a youngperson straight out of college,
you have a mom with three kidswho wants to go into this.
So people at various life stagesfrom all walks of life, every
(14:35):
culture, international students,urban students, suburban
students coming in.
Um, and I just felt so at home.
So it was like this almost kindof like this like I can kind of
like drop everything in a way.
And it was scary because you'regonna have to, you at social
work school, you do a lot oflike inner work and group work
where you're really having tounpack a lot of stuff in order
(14:56):
to like be of service to others.
But I felt very much in theright place.
And you just kind of feel it inyour body.
You feel it in your comfortlevel, you feel it in your
energy, your heartbeat, your allof these things.
And so I think I'm now I'mforgetting your your question
that you asked, but I hope I'manswering it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
You're answering it, yeah, exactly.
The energy, the heartbeat, thebody.
And may I just add here, Teresa,because I I happen to know this
about Allison.
You um you work out a lot.
Yeah.
And you introduced me to amodality that is really
interesting from from this, youknow, kind of like combination
perspective of you know, payingattention to different bodies
(15:38):
while working out the physicalbody.
Can you connect what we'retalking about with the you know,
physical practice that you do ona regular basis?
SPEAKER_01 (15:46):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I do it every day.
So I do at least 20 minutes aday.
And it's this modality calledthe class.
So it's like mind, body, andspirit all kind of mixed into
one.
Um and do you want to justdescribe it, Evie?
Like how is that the so it's alot of like um releasing, like a
(16:07):
releasing of like letting go oflike what is not serving you,
and then creating the space forother things to kind of come to
you.
Would you say that's anaccurate?
SPEAKER_00 (16:16):
Yeah.
And here's what's really coolabout it, which is why I was
like, wait, what?
When you if you were to look atthe videos, let's say that we
follow on mute, they look likeyour traditional cardio or
strength uh training videos.
But if you turn on the sound andyou listen to the teacher,
(16:39):
everything, all the cueing andthe music, it's all intentional
and it's connected to themovement.
And so I've experienced, youknow, having done other forms
where there's like a disconnectbetween we're listening to a
random song, and then theteacher is really nice, but
they're just like saying thesemotivational things that are so
disconnected from how we'removing the body, they are
(17:01):
linking it in this modality.
And after the 20 minutes, itjust feels like you get a much
bigger bing for the for thebuck.
Is that how how you experienceit too?
SPEAKER_01 (17:13):
Yeah, yeah.
It's um, I don't even I rememberthe first time I went in studio
because it was in Tribeca, and Iused to live in Manhattan.
Now I'm out in the suburbs, butit was downtown New York in an
area called Tribeca where thestudio was.
And you're in a room with like30 people, and it everything is
really intentional.
I think there's even likecrystals in the floors when
Taryn designed it, likeenergetically to like ground the
(17:35):
space, and everything'sbeautiful and smells really
lovely.
And there's so much intention inthe actual space, but you're in
this room moving with all thesepeople in this way, and there is
such a powerful release ofmovement.
But like, but to your point,like the smells, the sounds, the
cueing of music, the themessages that they share, it's
(17:57):
all kind of designed to connectmind, body, and spirit, but also
have this beautiful physicalexperience at the same time.
So you're sweating, but you'realso feeling like you're
emotionally like cleansingyourself in some way.
I don't know how to describe it.
It's so funny when I talk topeople about it, they're like,
Are you in a cult?
I'm like, No, I swear I'm not.
But it's this amazing, powerful.
SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
Yeah, no, but you know, we've talked about that
before, but you know, foreverybody, that's their own
thing too.
Like, you know, I'm a bigwalker, like, and so for me,
sometimes it's a release just togo out there in nature, whether
I'm just listening to the soundsaround me, or I'm listening to a
podcast, or I'm listening tomusic, or I'm doing whatever,
right?
It it I think everybody can havetheir own version of that.
And I think that to me, it'salmost like a reset, right?
(18:41):
It gives me the opportunity toreset whatever that looks like,
right?
So yours might be different thanmine, which might be different
than Evie's, which you know,everybody has to experience that
in their own, in their own way.
And some, but it's such a greatpractice, is the word I'll use
for to do it no matter what thatlooks like.
(19:02):
For some people, it might beyoga or yeah, you know,
everybody has their own thing.
SPEAKER_01 (19:05):
Yeah, I have a friend who calls, she's like,
every day I have to do 20, 20minutes of joyful movement.
And so it's anything, be a walk,a walking with a dog, jumping
around her room with like musicglass, but it's like joyful
movement, right?
And so I when I don't create thespace to work out, I'm like, oh,
I'm just gonna go move.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
I'll like go play with my dog in the yard for 20
minutes or whatever it is, youknow, just step away from your I
think it's just the theintention to do it and the
doing, right?
It's not even just the attentionto it, it's that you have to do
that.
And and it's so good for you todo.
I mean, and it could be thatyou, you know, take those 20
minutes and go sit on the floorand play with your with your
(19:41):
child.
I mean, you know, just just toclear your mind of whatever's
going on.
So I I love that part of thisconversation.
Can we spend we're we're kind ofgetting down on time?
It goes so quickly.
Um, but I'd love to hear likethose aha revelations you've
had.
You've talked about a couple ofthings that have happened.
Can you just talk at a highlevel about some of those kind
(20:03):
of aha revelations?
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Um, yeah.
So I would say there's twothings.
Like one, through all of this,I've realized that like I'm a
seeker.
I'm like constantly like asking,okay, what is like the bigger
purpose here?
Or what is my place in all ofthis?
Meaning like the world.
Um, and which I my friend usedthat word with me like maybe
five years ago.
It was actually an old friend Ihadn't seen in so long.
(20:28):
We're at actually a mutualfriend's wake.
And I was like, oh, it's so niceto see you.
And she's like, it's so nice tosee you too.
Like we were always so fond ofeach other.
She was actually my brother'sex-girlfriend.
So it wasn't someone that I waslike seeing all the time.
And she was like, you know,she's like, you're a seeker like
me.
And I'm like, that's exactlywhat it is.
Like she just like it connectedthe dots for me.
And I was like, gosh, yeah,Deep, you're right.
(20:49):
Like, we are both this type of aperson.
And that's why we've always feltthis like really deep connection
every time we see each other.
And so that was one, because Iwas always kind of wanting more
than like what was prescribed tome, I think, in a way.
Um, and two, so that was oneaha.
And then two, it was that I canalways pivot again, right?
So it's like if I'm ever drawnto doing something else, or you
(21:10):
know, a creative pursuit, or,you know, hey, I want to write a
children's book, or whateverthat is, you can do those
things, right?
And the thing that is beingcalled to you is something that
you can pursue.
And if it keeps coming up againand again and again and you keep
getting these pings of like, oh,I kind of I think I want to
explore this thing.
It could be like starting agarden in your yard or whatever
it is, or it could be rightagain, writing a children's
(21:32):
book, or, you know, opening astore or whatever that is, you
can do it.
You can it made me realize I cando it.
I can do this thing that Idecide to put my mind to.
And if the intention is thereand it makes sense, that's
something that I can pursue.
So it just, I think it reallyhelped to build myself of like
my sense of personal agency.
So that pivot, that initialpivot of changing my career made
(21:54):
me realize that I can do thisagain and again and again and
again, should I choose to.
And then becoming a mother toojust makes you, I think for me
at least, it just felt moreexpansive.
You know, I my world grew in somany beautiful ways and it made
me realize so many more thingsare possible than I didn't know
were possible before.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
We could stop right here.
This is such a beautifulclosure.
And I would love it if you couldoffer some additional wisdom
from this platform.
So the position where you'recommenting on pivot that you
initiated, disruption that youcaused intentionally, because
(22:33):
you were noticing that somethingwas brewing that was not good
for you.
So you went, you so this thepivot that you were talking
about was something that wecould say you did have some
control over.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
And yet it was in response to something that you
were noticing, this is not good.
This is not gonna be good if Icontinue to just ignore
basically the signals that I'mgetting.
So I wanted to connect thosetwo.
Is the fact that you initiatedthis pivot and then had the aha
moment that you could pivotagain and again?
Is that helpful when you'rethinking about the pivots that
you've had in your life?
(23:06):
And we don't have to likedissect them, just big picture.
When you're thinking about thepivots that are, you know, the
ones that you didn't that withthat you don't initiate that,
you know, hit you, that show upand and they're unwanted.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Yeah, I think that going through, so this was like
um a self-directed pivot, right?
But I I hear what you're saying.
There's gonna be things thatcome up in life or things that
have come up in life that arenot self-directed pivots, right?
It's could be death, illness,some kind of calamity going on.
Um, yes, I think it actabsolutely has prepared me for
when those things happen, whenyou know things don't they come
(23:44):
out of the blue.
I was gonna say something else,but it's like not appropriate
for for YouTube or wherever thisbeing recorded.
Um, but yeah, I think it made merealize that like you, I have
the inner resources andcapabilities to manage whatever
situation is gonna come at me.
It might be difficult, it mightbe painful, it might be
exhausting, uh stressful, but itmakes you realize, I think once
(24:07):
you've kind of developed thatinner resource or inner guide
that you can handle what's gonnacome.
And it might be reallychallenging, but it's definitely
possible to overcome or seesomething through for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (24:21):
I love this.
Yeah, I love this conversationtoo.
When we could just go on and on,but unfortunately, we're out of
time.
I feel like it goes so quickly.
It really does.
It does, doesn't it?
Um, thank you so much, Alison,for being with us today.
I I think you there was a lot ofgreat little nuggets here that I
think our listeners can reallyuh take away with.
(24:45):
So I really, I, I really lovedit.
Uh Evie, what do you have toadd?
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
I want to say the words, Allison.
Thank you so much for this finalcomment and reply to my
question, answering our finalquestion, which we ask all
guests about how was this pivota step forward?
And we have this ritual.
It's kind of a thing that we doat the end.
And I I just love what youoffered here that when we are
(25:12):
brave and we initiate some ofthese self-directed pivots, and
then also even when we do someof the practices on a daily
basis, you mentioned 20 minutesof this, you know, intentional
movement.
It's gonna pave the way andprepare us for when an
unintended pivot takes place.
(25:32):
So, could we say that that's howyour pivot was a step forward?
Absolutely ritually close outour conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, it was a step forward.
Yes, I would I would say that'sexactly the case.
And it also, yeah, it justexpanded my world in so many
ways.
It just it was everything.
Um sorry, my phone is justringing.
So I apologize.
Um, but yes, a hundred percent,a hundred percent.
That's the way you just phraseit is spot on.
(26:01):
Um yeah, the pivot was the mostexpansive thing that I wouldn't
say has ever happened to me thatwas like self-directed, I guess.
I I caused it too.
It didn't happen to me.
I was a catalyst in that, but umyeah, expanded my world in in
ways I never thought possibleand allowed me to even see the
(26:22):
world, parts of the world thatI've never could imagine seeing
before, Cambodia, Kenya.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
Yeah.
And and and you know, it was itwas scary.
It's fear.
And and you know, but but like,and I talked to so many, so many
people, so many women who, youknow, are scared of doing
something like that, but findout at the other end that
they're way better, or you know,are in a in a position where um,
(26:50):
you know, they're really nothappy, but they don't really
want to do anything about it.
And sometimes they're forced to,or sometimes they make the
decision on their own and end upbeing much better for it.
Because I think if you if you dothat, your passion shows
through.
And it just, you know, and andevery bit of that just makes you
happier.
So yeah.
(27:11):
Awesome.
Well, thank you again for beinghere, Allison.
We really enjoyed ourconversation today.
And uh even and I uh uh thankeverybody for listening to us
today.
So um we will see you again in acouple weeks with another guest.
And remember, if you have apivot, step into it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Thank you both so much.
This was great.
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