May 9, 2025 • 27 mins
Bill Harmon, seasoned retirement industry executive, broke through the polished corporate veneer to share a deeply personal story.
Bill takes us through the life-changing moment when his son William was born with Down syndrome, and the emotional rollercoaster that followed. After initially struggling with clinical, limitation-focused medical resources, Bill discovered a beautiful metaphor that changed his perspective forever: "Welcome to Holland." This poem frames having a child with special needs as boarding a plane for Italy but unexpectedly landing in Holland, a different destination with its own unique beauty.
Through William, Bill learned to embrace authenticity in an industry often defined by careful personas. "If I had a superpower it would be to make everyone feel comfortable in their own skin," he shares, crediting his son with teaching him this invaluable lesson. The impact reached far beyond his family life, transforming Bill's leadership style from competitively driven to purpose-focused. His willingness to bring his whole self to work, emotions and all, made him stand out in financial services leadership.
Have you experienced a "Welcome to Holland" moment in your life? We'd love to hear how you navigated your own unexpected destination. Share your story in the comments or reach out, because as Bill reminds us, finding a community for support makes all the difference.
Guest Bio:
Bill Harmon has spent his career in the retirement industry. Starting his career with Great-West and leading them forward as they became Empower Retirement to lead their core market growth. Bill then continued with Voya Financial as he led their 401(k) Markets with an end result of improving client retention.
Currently Bill serves as President of Thrive Flexible Matching. With debt being a key inhibitor toward saving for retirement, Thrive helps employers meet their employees where they are. There is over $1.7 trillion in student loan debt from 44 million Americans, so the need to address this is great, and Thrive can help.
Bill’s career highlights his communicative and open-minded working culture with a passion for fostering professional development. An insightful influencer and thought leader, he has served on many industry and nonprofit boards and pursued various innovative business applications for industry-wide advancement.
Connect with Bill:
LinkedIn
Connect with Theresa and Ivana:
Theresa, True Strategy Consultants: tsc-consultants.com
LinkedIn @treeconti, Insta @tscconsultants
Ivana, Courageous Being: courageousbeing.com
LinkedIn @ivipol, Insta @courbeing
SITP team, Step Into The Pivot: stepintothepivot.com
LinkedIn @step-into-the-pivot, YouTube @StepIntoThePivot
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody and welcome to Step Into the Pivot
for this week.
I am so happy to have BillHarmon on.
So, bill, welcome to Step Intothe Pivot.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Oh gosh, thank you for having me and thank you for
doing this.
This is a great topic and agreat platform for you to share
all these conversations.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, thank you.
We're excited about it too.
Every week and every other weeknow, we have a great guest and
it's always a great story.
And what we love is you've beenin financial services business
for a long time, worked for acouple of big record keepers.
Now is doing something still infinancial services about
(00:39):
student loan matching and otherstuff, which is a great
opportunity for our industry andwe're happy to do that.
But I love that people like youcome on and share.
You know stories that maybeothers haven't heard, so even
I'm going to turn it over to youand let you do a little more
in-depth intro, bill.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Thank you Teresa, hi everyone and hello Bill.
Thank you so much for acceptingthe invitation to be on the
show.
I so vividly remember when wefirst met.
It was a very long time ago now.
I mean, we're pushing maybe onlike at least it was at least
six years ago, seven years ago.
And the moment when I met youreally changed my perception of
(01:21):
the retirement industry.
Everything about thatenvironment that we were in was
very traditional for financialservices.
It was a conference setting,there was a speaking gig, there
were a lot of folks who weredoing all kinds of very
professional and business thingsand it was wonderful and it was
a meaningful conversation aboutthe state of the industry and
(01:43):
you and I at that time didn'treally know each other.
I knew who you were and thatalone came with, you know, some
acumen and some heft.
And then, out of it seemed likenowhere.
You started talking about yourfeelings and in the context that
was not really you know,typically what one would expect
(02:06):
and I was like who is this?
What is going on here?
Is someone breaking a barrier?
And other folks around us werelistening and paying attention
and I will let you tell thestory and I will let you share
with us what you were hinting atat that conference.
Now we'd love to know all thebehind the scenes and the depth
of you know the entire situationmy son william uh, turns 24 uh
(02:33):
in a couple weeks and he wasborn with down syndrome.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And um, when my wife was pregnant, uh, with him,
there were other potentialdiagnoses.
In fact there were quite a few,and it was not like that great
romantic, miracle pregnancy kindof a thing.
It was really filled with a lotof stress and so on, even to
(02:58):
the point to where I had to talkto the doctor and say, hey, why
don't you just share this withme, because it's putting her
under a lot of stress, and I gotto imagine that's not good for
her.
And so, anyhow, we sort ofruled a lot of those out.
And when he was born he had ahealthy cry and everything.
We did not know that he hadDown syndrome in utero.
(03:19):
We did some testing, but wedidn't do anything that would be
invasive.
Did some testing, but we didn'tdo anything that would be
invasive.
And so he was born and therewas a period of time that we did
not know that he had Downsyndrome, but it was taking a
little long before they broughthim to us.
And that's when we figured itout.
And then they came in and toldus and my whole world completely
(03:42):
changed right there, and so Iwas the type that I'm going to
go and do as much research aspossible.
I would caution anyone who's inthis similar situation of
expecting a child with specialneeds or a disability to be
careful, where you go, for yoursources.
I went to the hospital andeverything I read was extremely
(04:06):
clinical and was more focused onthings that can't be done than
things that can be done, anddoctors were a lot like that as
well and were very clinical, andthe bedside manner was really
missing, especially consideringthe emotional state that we were
in.
So that took a while for me toreally digest.
(04:29):
He was also.
He wasn't.
You know, one of the symptomsof Down syndrome is low muscle
tone, so he wasn't eating and sohe had to be in the NICU for 30
days and that was a lot ofstrain on my wife and me, and I
was kind of in a new role forGreat West, which then became
(04:49):
Empower, so I was buried in thatas well, managing some of the
field offices out in themid-Atlantic, and it was just a
lot, and I remember there was apoint to where, you know, I went
through a lot of why me?
What did I do wrong, you knowand this is very common there's
guilt associated, and I was at aSafeway just getting some
(05:12):
groceries and I saw a dad and ason and the dad was buying his
son a ball and I broke downcrying and I just thought I will
not be able to play ball withmy son because of everything I
read in the hospital, which is,if you know, my son, that
couldn't be further from thetruth.
He is such an amazing naturalathlete, loves basketball, hits
(05:37):
three pointers all the time, heis the horse champion of the
family.
Everyone knows that, and so Ijust dwelled for a period on the
negative until he proved mewrong.
And he does.
I don't even doubt him anymore.
So there's no way to prove mewrong, because he just surprises
(05:57):
everybody and he is an absoluteangel on earth.
That has changed not just us,but really anyone he comes in
contact with.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, I love that you .
Well, you talked about a fewthings there.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That really hit home for me.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
One is about doing research.
When you know somebody in yourfamily is diagnosed or you're
diagnosed with something thatsome of that research is not, is
not good, is not what youshould be hearing, is not you
know what you should be thinkingand then you talk to about.
You know you only read aboutthe negatives and not the
positives and you, you know,seem to realize fairly quickly
(06:33):
that he's a positive for sure inyour life.
Right, that's what I got fromwhat you said, so I love that.
How did that overall affectlike your whole relationship
with your wife, your family,your friends?
I'm sure that there had to be alot of stuff, a lot of moving
parts going on when, when youfound that all out, right?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, there really is , because you know, just I think
we're about to be visited byhim.
As a matter of fact.
Yes, we are.
Would you like to meet William?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
We're just talking about you right here.
All right, awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Can I come out and talk to you in a second, because
I'm doing a show right now?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I just finished.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I just have a show for my college oh awesome, tell
me more when I come on up.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Okay, this time is this a hey for mr justin, for me
, all right.
All right.
High five, buddy.
So great to meet you thank youfor stopping by.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Love you, buddy.
He's done that before when I'vebeen on a podcast.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
That's about as natural and that shows you the
work from home environment thatwe're in.
Yeah, but you know, just havingthe challenges of having a
first child, you know put strainon you know a couple and you're
learning to adapt, and it'sjust defense and all of that.
But then having a child withspecial needs, with a disability
(08:01):
, with an IDD, you really just,and especially in the NICU for
30 days, you really rely on eachother and the strong foundation
that you've built.
And boy, we really saw friendsshow up and we were in.
You know, we had met when I wasliving in California and then
(08:21):
we moved to Maryland, so we werereally kind of on an island out
there with mostly just newfriends or work associates.
But we got a lot of reach outs.
And one which really summed upthe world that we were in is
someone introduced us to a poemand it was written by a woman
who was one of the top writersfor Sesame Street and she had a
(08:42):
child with Down Syndrome, andit's called Welcome to Holland.
And so, in case anyone hasn'theard this, it's a great
explanation.
The whole premise is you're onan airplane and you're about to
take off on your honeymoon.
You're going to go to Italybecause Italy has fast cars and
all the art and the history andgreat food and all of that.
But midair the pilot comes onand says change of plans, we're
(09:05):
going to Holland.
And you're really disappointedbecause you're not going to
Italy and you're depending on it.
But Holland is beautiful and ithas tulips and the art and it's
just a little slower pace thanItaly, but it is beautiful in
its own way and we sent that outas our birth announcement cards
.
So mostly so because a lot ofpeople would when we said
(09:29):
William has Down syndrome, theykind of would react like oh, I
am so sorry, but we wanted themto actually celebrate that this
is what it is.
And that poem did it and thathelped friends that are just new
to this world understand thatwe're in a good place and so on.
(09:49):
And it really just went up fromthere, as you can tell from Wow
.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
What a beautiful way toconsider it.
I don't even want to sayreframe it, but really to see it
for what it is.
Thank you for giving us yetanother gorgeous metaphor to
talk about the pivots lifepivots, you know they've been.
It's interesting how manypeople have actually, you know,
offered their own versions of,you know of of it.
Is it a plot twist?
(10:15):
Is it a, you know, a totalsetback?
But this is, this is welcome toHolland.
That's going to stick with mefor sure, you know.
So we, you know, we startedeverything by me, sort of like
opaquely, talking about yourcareer as, as a matter of fact,
and, yes, absolutely, there wasa really good transition there.
The reason you brought up yourson and the reason you started
(10:36):
talking about your feelings was,you know, to just not make this
super technical but to still,you know, presence, what you
were doing there.
You started educating theconstituents of the retirement
plan industry about theimportance of paying attention
to who the plan participantsreally are and what kinds of
(10:57):
challenges they may be facingand when they're thinking about
saving for retirement.
There may be someconsiderations that go into the
decisions to set a certainpercentage aside or not that
that have to do with these bigterritories the size of Holland,
and can you say a little bitmore about this entire
(11:19):
experience?
You've mentioned that here youare a NICU situation.
You're managing the bigresponsibility at work.
Tell us more about your careerin navigating.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, and William was a big part of that in that when
he was born, we really wantedto be closer to our support
system and my family's inSouthern California my wife's
family is in Boise, idaho, andso I had.
I was doing some meetings, someadvisor meetings, and someone
(11:50):
from our home office came outand William was just born.
And I was doing some meetings,some advisor meetings, and
someone from our home officecame out and William was just
born and I was telling her thesestories and just, you know,
beaming when I did it and sheand I had just first met at that
point and she said who is thisperson?
You know, and just was reallytaken by how enthusiastic I was
about this new world that I wasin, and so on.
(12:11):
Well, wouldn't you know it,when Great West at that time was
looking to create a separate401k division, separate of the
employee benefits division, theperson that was looking to hire
a leader of that asked her andsaid do you know of anybody?
That would be great?
And because of that meeting sherecommended me.
(12:36):
Meanwhile my wife and I werelooking to move to Arizona and I
was going to go back into salesand just be closer to our
support systems and he, charlieNelson, who's been an incredible
friend and mentor and just agiant in the industry, flew down
and said I want you to do this.
And so that was really a bigstart, of which William was at
the core of that.
And so we did, and so I headedup the 401k division at Great
(13:03):
West.
That became Empower and at thattime I think we were the 35th
largest and then grew.
When I left Empower to, I thinkwe were number three, maybe
number two.
So tremendous growth because ofthat one little meeting and it
was great and I think you know,and what I often think, that he
(13:26):
really saved me in so many waysbecause of that whole portion of
it.
It helped me slow down and ithelped me sort of breathe at a
different cadence.
I think I was bound prettytight.
I'm extremely competitive, Iwould, I would manage.
Like you know, we're going towin, we're going to win, we're
(13:46):
going to destroy the competitionand all of that.
But I think that children ingeneral help you realize that
there's something bigger thanthat.
But I think a child with Downsyndrome they are the just
purest humans and sometimes to afault, he has no inner filter,
as you can just tell right thereand he'll say whatever's on his
(14:08):
mind, but he doesn't havesarcasm or cynicism or any of
the, I think, ugly parts of me,because he's just pure and a
hugger and all of that.
And I think that that reallyslowed me down and helped me
think of things bigger as itrelates to my career, and maybe
(14:31):
then that was a piece of whatyou saw, which is probably when
I was at Voya and I was doing aVoya Cares presentation.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, there was a willingness to take a risk while
keeping a higher perspective inmind, and you were using your
own example to actually connectwith others.
So I also noticed that you knowyou just gave us a really good
example of authenticity and howauthenticity works in the
business setting.
So being your authentic self inthe small meeting led to some
(15:05):
very interesting and you knowsuccesses down the road and you
know.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
The forks in the road .
You never know when that's oneof those moments, and that was
one of those moments.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, well, and I was going to say too, as you were
talking about that and how youaffect your career, right, like
you know, he came into your lifeat the time, maybe when you
needed it.
Like I always say thatsometimes people come into your
life and then they may leave,you know, a few years later,
whatever that looks like, butsometimes people are put in your
life for a reason.
I mean, maybe you needed himthere to help you slow down or
(15:40):
help you, you know, to help yourcareer.
So are there other ways youthink that he has changed your
life over the years, or changedyou over the years that you want
to talk about?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, I think you know for one, if I had a
superpower it would be to makeeveryone feel comfortable in
their own skin.
And he taught me there's nobodythat's more comfortable in his
own skin and their own skin thanWilliam.
And with that comes anincredible amount of emotional
(16:18):
maturity.
And so I kind of emulate thatas much as I can myself, looking
at him, and I think that thatemotional maturity carried into
my career in the sense that thatI think I always thought that
there was.
You know, you go from a job toa career because you're
passionate about what you do andso on.
And then I thought maybe there'sanother one where I think about
legacy, like what do I want toleave behind?
(16:38):
But then I even found more, andI think the combination of V,
voya and how they looked at voyacares but other things bigger,
that brought in a new word andthat was purpose, and so I
became much more purpose drivenum, with william as sort of that
foundation and then applying itinto business.
(17:01):
And then that became maybe towhat you just said, that it was
a refreshing change and a levelof authenticity for, you know, a
senior manager kind of a thingfor me to be like that, but I
was very comfortable as before.
I think I wouldn't have been ascomfortable because you see
(17:24):
that a lot of these meetings,people have shells and are
covering up any of their youknow blemishes.
And I am what I am, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
So yeah, yeah, lots of masks, you know, present in
those, in those circumstances,and I think that what you were
just sharing, when you, when youhave someone who is so willing
to have no filters, or perhapsthere is just this is like this
is who I am and how I movethrough the world, they do set
the tone and, you know, perhapsyou do still have to consider
(17:56):
some of those filters in acontext, like you know, being a
leader of a financial industry,you know provider company,
financial um industry, you knowprovider company.
However, that doesn't mean thatyou can't back it up with the
energy of that like no, really,here is, here is who I really am
really cool and I took somepeople by surprise.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
They weren't really uh-huh for a big, giant dose of
um, of bill harman, um, andwhether that's positivity,
authenticity, it could be all ofthat, because you know that
that wasn't typical, at leastthere, um and, and so I was kind
of um.
It took a bunch of small dosesof me to finally get used to who
(18:39):
I am.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yes, that is, um, you know, I think, related to the
fact that the Holland experiencewas not a one-time experience.
So there was the you know theannouncement that you made.
It sounds to me like whatyou've been, you know, what
you've been through as a familyhas been a regular, like daily
dose of oh, we thought it wasgoing to be like this.
(19:02):
Now change of plans.
Yes, we thought we were goingto be like this.
Now change of plans.
Yes, we thought we were goingto be like change of plans.
I think that's a phenomenaltraining for anyone who is
interested in any kind of aleadership position.
Oh, we thought we're going tobe doing this.
Let's like plane reroute it andwe can still, you know, have a
really positive experience.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
All this happened before the pandemic.
And didn't the pandemic allchange us?
Everyone had to build a muscleto number one, realize you're
not in control, um, as much asyou try, and you're gonna have
to learn to, um, be comfortablewith being uncomfortable, um and
uh, and really how to pivot.
(19:44):
My goodness, we've had so manyfreedoms taken away from us
during the pandemic.
You have to really just learnhow to pivot.
I even shared with the kidsthat I said, hey, when you guys
were born here, they're all home, doing school from home and all
that.
And I said, when you guys wereborn, and you had that note tied
to your toe which was aninstruction manual on how to be
(20:05):
parents to you, there was nochapter on a global pandemic.
So dad doesn't have any answers.
We're going to just gettogether and figure this out.
You know, as we go, you guys in, I'm taking all good ideas
because I have no practice onthis one, and that's what we all
did.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I think you're entirely right, bill.
That's what we all had to do,right, we had to figure out what
the next step was, what was.
And you know what I really loveabout what you said, too is you
know, it's almost like Williamhas allowed you to be your
authentic self a lot on thispodcast.
It's very important you knowthat, that we can be that way,
(20:46):
but it's really hard to be thatway, right, it's really hard to
show emotion or have thewhatever that looks like.
So you know, I I really lovethat you're open to sharing that
and that you know.
You know he seems amazing.
It was.
It was awesome.
That he showed up is amazing.
(21:09):
It was awesome that he showedup.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
He was there the whole time.
You told him when to come in,didn't you?
You would think, right, buthe's done this several times.
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
It was amazing.
So let's go ahead and wrap.
We always ask a question at theend how is this pivot a step
forward?
But I think what we'd kind oflike you to talk about is what
advice would you have for othersor as far as this type of pivot
in your life, because I thinkwe're I mean, you said before
more people have these than wereally think and we don't know
(21:39):
what's going on in their homelife when we're talking about
retirement plans or whatever itis we're talking about.
So can you kind of give us wrapby giving us your best advice
here?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Boy.
You're so right becauseespecially think about the
sandwich generation, whereyou're taking care of kids and
kids could have some type ofdisability, idd, challenge,
anxiety, whatever it might be,and meanwhile you're also taking
care of parents and but don'tforget to go put the mask on
yourself first before you takecare of others.
I mean, you're trying to takecare of yourself.
(22:11):
So the advice I have to thisvery large, larger than what
most people think of communityis to find community.
Don't go about this on your own.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat we've worked with, a lot of
new parents of a child withDown syndrome, and some of them
(22:31):
want to go about it bythemselves, or they're
embarrassed or they don't know.
It's like, don't do that.
There's such a great communityout there, there's so many great
organizations.
Find those communities ofwhatever it is so that you can
just talk or, you know, hearfrom people who've gone before
(22:52):
you, get recommendations totherapists, to doctors, to
whomever it may be, but don'ttry to go ahead and kind of pave
this trail on your own, becausethese communities are big,
they're giving, they've beenwhere you are and while every
child is different, there's alot of similarities,
particularly when it comes tocare, and so I really would
(23:14):
think this is the perfect timeto build a very tight community
and then be part of it.
The universe works and we justtalked about this the entire
time.
The universe works in veryinteresting ways, and when I
said, why me?
The reframing of that isbecause I deserved it and that
(23:39):
was it, and that to me is wow, Iguess I did something right
Because I was gifted thisincredible human being that has
changed everyone around him, andI think that takes a while for
people to get to that reframing,but hopefully they do get that
(24:00):
reframing.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
It feels really good when you get to that point good
when you get to that point, theamount of love that we just felt
on this show when your sonwalked through the door and you
know, and just contributed toraising the vibration of the
whole experience.
You know thank you for that andit and I didn't, it wasn't lost
on us that you referred to himas an angel and and a gift.
(24:22):
On that Again, the incredibleyou talked about, like the tight
community and through that youknow having a sense of expansion
.
That is really beautiful.
And thank you also for invitingfolks to contribute, because
there is this like there is areciprocity that you want to be,
you know experiencing when youengage in community, don't do it
(24:43):
alone.
And also, you know, show up andcontribute.
You can't do that without beingvulnerable and without sharing.
So thank you so much for beingwilling to share with our
community of pivoters, which Iwould say includes everybody,
because everyone's had some kindof a trip to Holland that
they've had to take in theirlife.
And you know we deeplyappreciate you at least
(25:06):
scratching the surface here withus on this profound story.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much for having meand, again, thank you for using
this platform to go ahead andshare some of these stories.
I think people really need them.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, we can feel the love, and so this was an
amazing conversation.
So thank you, Bill, so much forbeing with us today.
We truly appreciate it.
Thank you to everybody who'slistened today.
We're happy to have you aspivoters and remember, if you
have a pivot step into it.
Hello everybody and welcome to Step Into the Pivot
for this week.
I am so happy to have BillHarmon on.
So, bill, welcome to Step Intothe Pivot.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Oh gosh, thank you for having me and thank you for
doing this.
This is a great topic and agreat platform for you to share
all these conversations.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, thank you.
We're excited about it too.
Every week and every other weeknow, we have a great guest and
it's always a great story.
And what we love is you've beenin financial services business
for a long time, worked for acouple of big record keepers.
Now is doing something still infinancial services about
(00:39):
student loan matching and otherstuff, which is a great
opportunity for our industry andwe're happy to do that.
But I love that people like youcome on and share.
You know stories that maybeothers haven't heard, so even
I'm going to turn it over to youand let you do a little more
in-depth intro, bill.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Thank you Teresa, hi everyone and hello Bill.
Thank you so much for acceptingthe invitation to be on the
show.
I so vividly remember when wefirst met.
It was a very long time ago now.
I mean, we're pushing maybe onlike at least it was at least
six years ago, seven years ago.
And the moment when I met youreally changed my perception of
(01:21):
the retirement industry.
Everything about thatenvironment that we were in was
very traditional for financialservices.
It was a conference setting,there was a speaking gig, there
were a lot of folks who weredoing all kinds of very
professional and business thingsand it was wonderful and it was
a meaningful conversation aboutthe state of the industry and
(01:43):
you and I at that time didn'treally know each other.
I knew who you were and thatalone came with, you know, some
acumen and some heft.
And then, out of it seemed likenowhere.
You started talking about yourfeelings and in the context that
was not really you know,typically what one would expect
(02:06):
and I was like who is this?
What is going on here?
Is someone breaking a barrier?
And other folks around us werelistening and paying attention
and I will let you tell thestory and I will let you share
with us what you were hinting atat that conference.
Now we'd love to know all thebehind the scenes and the depth
of you know the entire situationmy son william uh, turns 24 uh
(02:33):
in a couple weeks and he wasborn with down syndrome.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And um, when my wife was pregnant, uh, with him,
there were other potentialdiagnoses.
In fact there were quite a few,and it was not like that great
romantic, miracle pregnancy kindof a thing.
It was really filled with a lotof stress and so on, even to
(02:58):
the point to where I had to talkto the doctor and say, hey, why
don't you just share this withme, because it's putting her
under a lot of stress, and I gotto imagine that's not good for
her.
And so, anyhow, we sort ofruled a lot of those out.
And when he was born he had ahealthy cry and everything.
We did not know that he hadDown syndrome in utero.
(03:19):
We did some testing, but wedidn't do anything that would be
invasive.
Did some testing, but we didn'tdo anything that would be
invasive.
And so he was born and therewas a period of time that we did
not know that he had Downsyndrome, but it was taking a
little long before they broughthim to us.
And that's when we figured itout.
And then they came in and toldus and my whole world completely
(03:42):
changed right there, and so Iwas the type that I'm going to
go and do as much research aspossible.
I would caution anyone who's inthis similar situation of
expecting a child with specialneeds or a disability to be
careful, where you go, for yoursources.
I went to the hospital andeverything I read was extremely
(04:06):
clinical and was more focused onthings that can't be done than
things that can be done, anddoctors were a lot like that as
well and were very clinical, andthe bedside manner was really
missing, especially consideringthe emotional state that we were
in.
So that took a while for me toreally digest.
(04:29):
He was also.
He wasn't.
You know, one of the symptomsof Down syndrome is low muscle
tone, so he wasn't eating and sohe had to be in the NICU for 30
days and that was a lot ofstrain on my wife and me, and I
was kind of in a new role forGreat West, which then became
(04:49):
Empower, so I was buried in thatas well, managing some of the
field offices out in themid-Atlantic, and it was just a
lot, and I remember there was apoint to where, you know, I went
through a lot of why me?
What did I do wrong, you knowand this is very common there's
guilt associated, and I was at aSafeway just getting some
(05:12):
groceries and I saw a dad and ason and the dad was buying his
son a ball and I broke downcrying and I just thought I will
not be able to play ball withmy son because of everything I
read in the hospital, which is,if you know, my son, that
couldn't be further from thetruth.
He is such an amazing naturalathlete, loves basketball, hits
(05:37):
three pointers all the time, heis the horse champion of the
family.
Everyone knows that, and so Ijust dwelled for a period on the
negative until he proved mewrong.
And he does.
I don't even doubt him anymore.
So there's no way to prove mewrong, because he just surprises
(05:57):
everybody and he is an absoluteangel on earth.
That has changed not just us,but really anyone he comes in
contact with.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, I love that you .
Well, you talked about a fewthings there.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That really hit home for me.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
One is about doing research.
When you know somebody in yourfamily is diagnosed or you're
diagnosed with something thatsome of that research is not, is
not good, is not what youshould be hearing, is not you
know what you should be thinkingand then you talk to about.
You know you only read aboutthe negatives and not the
positives and you, you know,seem to realize fairly quickly
(06:33):
that he's a positive for sure inyour life.
Right, that's what I got fromwhat you said, so I love that.
How did that overall affectlike your whole relationship
with your wife, your family,your friends?
I'm sure that there had to be alot of stuff, a lot of moving
parts going on when, when youfound that all out, right?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, there really is , because you know, just I think
we're about to be visited byhim.
As a matter of fact.
Yes, we are.
Would you like to meet William?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
We're just talking about you right here.
All right, awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Can I come out and talk to you in a second, because
I'm doing a show right now?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I just finished.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I just have a show for my college oh awesome, tell
me more when I come on up.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Okay, this time is this a hey for mr justin, for me
, all right.
All right.
High five, buddy.
So great to meet you thank youfor stopping by.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Love you, buddy.
He's done that before when I'vebeen on a podcast.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
That's about as natural and that shows you the
work from home environment thatwe're in.
Yeah, but you know, just havingthe challenges of having a
first child, you know put strainon you know a couple and you're
learning to adapt, and it'sjust defense and all of that.
But then having a child withspecial needs, with a disability
(08:01):
, with an IDD, you really just,and especially in the NICU for
30 days, you really rely on eachother and the strong foundation
that you've built.
And boy, we really saw friendsshow up and we were in.
You know, we had met when I wasliving in California and then
(08:21):
we moved to Maryland, so we werereally kind of on an island out
there with mostly just newfriends or work associates.
But we got a lot of reach outs.
And one which really summed upthe world that we were in is
someone introduced us to a poemand it was written by a woman
who was one of the top writersfor Sesame Street and she had a
(08:42):
child with Down Syndrome, andit's called Welcome to Holland.
And so, in case anyone hasn'theard this, it's a great
explanation.
The whole premise is you're onan airplane and you're about to
take off on your honeymoon.
You're going to go to Italybecause Italy has fast cars and
all the art and the history andgreat food and all of that.
But midair the pilot comes onand says change of plans, we're
(09:05):
going to Holland.
And you're really disappointedbecause you're not going to
Italy and you're depending on it.
But Holland is beautiful and ithas tulips and the art and it's
just a little slower pace thanItaly, but it is beautiful in
its own way and we sent that outas our birth announcement cards
.
So mostly so because a lot ofpeople would when we said
(09:29):
William has Down syndrome, theykind of would react like oh, I
am so sorry, but we wanted themto actually celebrate that this
is what it is.
And that poem did it and thathelped friends that are just new
to this world understand thatwe're in a good place and so on.
(09:49):
And it really just went up fromthere, as you can tell from Wow
.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
What a beautiful way toconsider it.
I don't even want to sayreframe it, but really to see it
for what it is.
Thank you for giving us yetanother gorgeous metaphor to
talk about the pivots lifepivots, you know they've been.
It's interesting how manypeople have actually, you know,
offered their own versions of,you know of of it.
Is it a plot twist?
(10:15):
Is it a, you know, a totalsetback?
But this is, this is welcome toHolland.
That's going to stick with mefor sure, you know.
So we, you know, we startedeverything by me, sort of like
opaquely, talking about yourcareer as, as a matter of fact,
and, yes, absolutely, there wasa really good transition there.
The reason you brought up yourson and the reason you started
(10:36):
talking about your feelings was,you know, to just not make this
super technical but to still,you know, presence, what you
were doing there.
You started educating theconstituents of the retirement
plan industry about theimportance of paying attention
to who the plan participantsreally are and what kinds of
(10:57):
challenges they may be facingand when they're thinking about
saving for retirement.
There may be someconsiderations that go into the
decisions to set a certainpercentage aside or not that
that have to do with these bigterritories the size of Holland,
and can you say a little bitmore about this entire
(11:19):
experience?
You've mentioned that here youare a NICU situation.
You're managing the bigresponsibility at work.
Tell us more about your careerin navigating.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, and William was a big part of that in that when
he was born, we really wantedto be closer to our support
system and my family's inSouthern California my wife's
family is in Boise, idaho, andso I had.
I was doing some meetings, someadvisor meetings, and someone
(11:50):
from our home office came outand William was just born.
And I was doing some meetings,some advisor meetings, and
someone from our home officecame out and William was just
born and I was telling her thesestories and just, you know,
beaming when I did it and sheand I had just first met at that
point and she said who is thisperson?
You know, and just was reallytaken by how enthusiastic I was
about this new world that I wasin, and so on.
(12:11):
Well, wouldn't you know it,when Great West at that time was
looking to create a separate401k division, separate of the
employee benefits division, theperson that was looking to hire
a leader of that asked her andsaid do you know of anybody?
That would be great?
And because of that meeting sherecommended me.
(12:36):
Meanwhile my wife and I werelooking to move to Arizona and I
was going to go back into salesand just be closer to our
support systems and he, charlieNelson, who's been an incredible
friend and mentor and just agiant in the industry, flew down
and said I want you to do this.
And so that was really a bigstart, of which William was at
the core of that.
And so we did, and so I headedup the 401k division at Great
(13:03):
West.
That became Empower and at thattime I think we were the 35th
largest and then grew.
When I left Empower to, I thinkwe were number three, maybe
number two.
So tremendous growth because ofthat one little meeting and it
was great and I think you know,and what I often think, that he
(13:26):
really saved me in so many waysbecause of that whole portion of
it.
It helped me slow down and ithelped me sort of breathe at a
different cadence.
I think I was bound prettytight.
I'm extremely competitive, Iwould, I would manage.
Like you know, we're going towin, we're going to win, we're
(13:46):
going to destroy the competitionand all of that.
But I think that children ingeneral help you realize that
there's something bigger thanthat.
But I think a child with Downsyndrome they are the just
purest humans and sometimes to afault, he has no inner filter,
as you can just tell right thereand he'll say whatever's on his
(14:08):
mind, but he doesn't havesarcasm or cynicism or any of
the, I think, ugly parts of me,because he's just pure and a
hugger and all of that.
And I think that that reallyslowed me down and helped me
think of things bigger as itrelates to my career, and maybe
(14:31):
then that was a piece of whatyou saw, which is probably when
I was at Voya and I was doing aVoya Cares presentation.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, there was a willingness to take a risk while
keeping a higher perspective inmind, and you were using your
own example to actually connectwith others.
So I also noticed that you knowyou just gave us a really good
example of authenticity and howauthenticity works in the
business setting.
So being your authentic self inthe small meeting led to some
(15:05):
very interesting and you knowsuccesses down the road and you
know.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
The forks in the road .
You never know when that's oneof those moments, and that was
one of those moments.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, well, and I was going to say too, as you were
talking about that and how youaffect your career, right, like
you know, he came into your lifeat the time, maybe when you
needed it.
Like I always say thatsometimes people come into your
life and then they may leave,you know, a few years later,
whatever that looks like, butsometimes people are put in your
life for a reason.
I mean, maybe you needed himthere to help you slow down or
(15:40):
help you, you know, to help yourcareer.
So are there other ways youthink that he has changed your
life over the years, or changedyou over the years that you want
to talk about?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, I think you know for one, if I had a
superpower it would be to makeeveryone feel comfortable in
their own skin.
And he taught me there's nobodythat's more comfortable in his
own skin and their own skin thanWilliam.
And with that comes anincredible amount of emotional
(16:18):
maturity.
And so I kind of emulate thatas much as I can myself, looking
at him, and I think that thatemotional maturity carried into
my career in the sense that thatI think I always thought that
there was.
You know, you go from a job toa career because you're
passionate about what you do andso on.
And then I thought maybe there'sanother one where I think about
legacy, like what do I want toleave behind?
(16:38):
But then I even found more, andI think the combination of V,
voya and how they looked at voyacares but other things bigger,
that brought in a new word andthat was purpose, and so I
became much more purpose drivenum, with william as sort of that
foundation and then applying itinto business.
(17:01):
And then that became maybe towhat you just said, that it was
a refreshing change and a levelof authenticity for, you know, a
senior manager kind of a thingfor me to be like that, but I
was very comfortable as before.
I think I wouldn't have been ascomfortable because you see
(17:24):
that a lot of these meetings,people have shells and are
covering up any of their youknow blemishes.
And I am what I am, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
So yeah, yeah, lots of masks, you know, present in
those, in those circumstances,and I think that what you were
just sharing, when you, when youhave someone who is so willing
to have no filters, or perhapsthere is just this is like this
is who I am and how I movethrough the world, they do set
the tone and, you know, perhapsyou do still have to consider
(17:56):
some of those filters in acontext, like you know, being a
leader of a financial industry,you know provider company,
financial um industry, you knowprovider company.
However, that doesn't mean thatyou can't back it up with the
energy of that like no, really,here is, here is who I really am
really cool and I took somepeople by surprise.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
They weren't really uh-huh for a big, giant dose of
um, of bill harman, um, andwhether that's positivity,
authenticity, it could be all ofthat, because you know that
that wasn't typical, at leastthere, um and, and so I was kind
of um.
It took a bunch of small dosesof me to finally get used to who
(18:39):
I am.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yes, that is, um, you know, I think, related to the
fact that the Holland experiencewas not a one-time experience.
So there was the you know theannouncement that you made.
It sounds to me like whatyou've been, you know, what
you've been through as a familyhas been a regular, like daily
dose of oh, we thought it wasgoing to be like this.
(19:02):
Now change of plans.
Yes, we thought we were goingto be like this.
Now change of plans.
Yes, we thought we were goingto be like change of plans.
I think that's a phenomenaltraining for anyone who is
interested in any kind of aleadership position.
Oh, we thought we're going tobe doing this.
Let's like plane reroute it andwe can still, you know, have a
really positive experience.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
All this happened before the pandemic.
And didn't the pandemic allchange us?
Everyone had to build a muscleto number one, realize you're
not in control, um, as much asyou try, and you're gonna have
to learn to, um, be comfortablewith being uncomfortable, um and
uh, and really how to pivot.
(19:44):
My goodness, we've had so manyfreedoms taken away from us
during the pandemic.
You have to really just learnhow to pivot.
I even shared with the kidsthat I said, hey, when you guys
were born here, they're all home, doing school from home and all
that.
And I said, when you guys wereborn, and you had that note tied
to your toe which was aninstruction manual on how to be
(20:05):
parents to you, there was nochapter on a global pandemic.
So dad doesn't have any answers.
We're going to just gettogether and figure this out.
You know, as we go, you guys in, I'm taking all good ideas
because I have no practice onthis one, and that's what we all
did.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I think you're entirely right, bill.
That's what we all had to do,right, we had to figure out what
the next step was, what was.
And you know what I really loveabout what you said, too is you
know, it's almost like Williamhas allowed you to be your
authentic self a lot on thispodcast.
It's very important you knowthat, that we can be that way,
(20:46):
but it's really hard to be thatway, right, it's really hard to
show emotion or have thewhatever that looks like.
So you know, I I really lovethat you're open to sharing that
and that you know.
You know he seems amazing.
It was.
It was awesome.
That he showed up is amazing.
(21:09):
It was awesome that he showedup.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
He was there the whole time.
You told him when to come in,didn't you?
You would think, right, buthe's done this several times.
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
It was amazing.
So let's go ahead and wrap.
We always ask a question at theend how is this pivot a step
forward?
But I think what we'd kind oflike you to talk about is what
advice would you have for othersor as far as this type of pivot
in your life, because I thinkwe're I mean, you said before
more people have these than wereally think and we don't know
(21:39):
what's going on in their homelife when we're talking about
retirement plans or whatever itis we're talking about.
So can you kind of give us wrapby giving us your best advice
here?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Boy.
You're so right becauseespecially think about the
sandwich generation, whereyou're taking care of kids and
kids could have some type ofdisability, idd, challenge,
anxiety, whatever it might be,and meanwhile you're also taking
care of parents and but don'tforget to go put the mask on
yourself first before you takecare of others.
I mean, you're trying to takecare of yourself.
(22:11):
So the advice I have to thisvery large, larger than what
most people think of communityis to find community.
Don't go about this on your own.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat we've worked with, a lot of
new parents of a child withDown syndrome, and some of them
(22:31):
want to go about it bythemselves, or they're
embarrassed or they don't know.
It's like, don't do that.
There's such a great communityout there, there's so many great
organizations.
Find those communities ofwhatever it is so that you can
just talk or, you know, hearfrom people who've gone before
(22:52):
you, get recommendations totherapists, to doctors, to
whomever it may be, but don'ttry to go ahead and kind of pave
this trail on your own, becausethese communities are big,
they're giving, they've beenwhere you are and while every
child is different, there's alot of similarities,
particularly when it comes tocare, and so I really would
(23:14):
think this is the perfect timeto build a very tight community
and then be part of it.
The universe works and we justtalked about this the entire
time.
The universe works in veryinteresting ways, and when I
said, why me?
The reframing of that isbecause I deserved it and that
(23:39):
was it, and that to me is wow, Iguess I did something right
Because I was gifted thisincredible human being that has
changed everyone around him, andI think that takes a while for
people to get to that reframing,but hopefully they do get that
(24:00):
reframing.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
It feels really good when you get to that point good
when you get to that point, theamount of love that we just felt
on this show when your sonwalked through the door and you
know, and just contributed toraising the vibration of the
whole experience.
You know thank you for that andit and I didn't, it wasn't lost
on us that you referred to himas an angel and and a gift.
(24:22):
On that Again, the incredibleyou talked about, like the tight
community and through that youknow having a sense of expansion
.
That is really beautiful.
And thank you also for invitingfolks to contribute, because
there is this like there is areciprocity that you want to be,
you know experiencing when youengage in community, don't do it
(24:43):
alone.
And also, you know, show up andcontribute.
You can't do that without beingvulnerable and without sharing.
So thank you so much for beingwilling to share with our
community of pivoters, which Iwould say includes everybody,
because everyone's had some kindof a trip to Holland that
they've had to take in theirlife.
And you know we deeplyappreciate you at least
(25:06):
scratching the surface here withus on this profound story.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much for having meand, again, thank you for using
this platform to go ahead andshare some of these stories.
I think people really need them.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, we can feel the love, and so this was an
amazing conversation.
So thank you, Bill, so much forbeing with us today.
We truly appreciate it.
Thank you to everybody who'slistened today.
We're happy to have you aspivoters and remember, if you
have a pivot step into it.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.