August 29, 2025 • 23 mins
A chance meeting in a Bronx apartment building sparked a 13-year mentorship journey that transformed both lives and careers. When Sarah Simoneaux rushed to New York after her daughter Nicole hadn't been heard from in weeks, she discovered not only her daughter in crisis but also an unexpected connection that would reshape her understanding of purpose and success.
During her extended stays supporting Nicole's recovery, Sarah met James Passarelli, her daughter's upstairs neighbor who was finishing a history degree with uncertainty about his future. Years later, as Sarah contemplated scaling back her work to spend more time with family, James proposed a collaboration that allowed her to continue meaningful work while reclaiming precious personal time. "James has given me that gift of time, which is incredibly precious," Sarah shares, highlighting how mentorship often comes full circle.
Listen now to discover how human connection can transform not just careers but entire life trajectories, and consider how you might step into your own pivot, whether by circumstance or by choice.
Guest Bio:
Sarah Simoneaux, CPC is the founder and president of Simoneaux Consulting Services. SCS specializes in helping firms with retirement services technology and operations consulting, training tailored to retirement services firms’ client-facing associates, finding opportunities from government legislation and regulation of qualified plans, and strategic planning. Sarah is an experienced keynote speaker who specializes in weaving compelling stories into ERISA and management topics.
Connect with Sarah:
LinkedIn
Guest Bio:
James Passarelli, based in Boulder, CO, US, is currently a President at Carta Consulting. James Passarelli brings experience from previous roles at ftwilliam.com, Complect and EGPS. James Passarelli holds a 2011 - 2013 Master of Arts (M.A.) in History @ Fordham University. With a robust skill set that includes Copy Editing, Writing, Research, Online Publishing, History and more.
Connect with James:
LinkedIn
Connect with Theresa and Ivana:
Theresa, True Strategy Consultants: tsc-consultants.com
LinkedIn @treeconti, Insta @tscconsultants
Ivana, Courageous Being: courageousbeing.com
LinkedIn @ivipol, Insta @courbeing
SITP team, Step Into The Pivot: stepintothepivot.com
LinkedIn @step-into-the-pivot, YouTube @StepIntoThePivot
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, welcome to this week's episode
of Step Into the Pivot.
So this is a first for us.
We have two guests today, soI'm super excited about it.
Sarah Simino.
Sarah and I have known eachother for probably more years
than we would like to admit, sothank you, sarah, for being here
.
We're happy to have you, thankyou.
And then James Passarelli.
(00:22):
So, james, we welcome you aswell, and we're really looking
forward to this kind of uniquestory.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Me too.
Thanks for having me, guys.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah.
So I would love to just setthis up for our listeners to say
that we all know each otherfrom deep within the retirement
plan industry that is loadedwith technical knowledge, and
these two women first andforemost I wanna highlight Sarah
and Teresa.
Those are the women to whom Ireally turned for both a
(00:55):
combination of advice when itcame to the technical knowledge
and technical side of things.
Qualified plans wereintimidating to me when I first
started working with them andboth of you made them palatable
and one of the theory of it andthe experience of that, like I
can do it, came from both of you, essentially role modeling
(01:17):
something for me which was thatit's okay to be authentic, okay
to be yourself and you know whenI would interact with each of
you, respectively to be plainEnglish about it, while still
backed up with a lot ofknowledge and theoretical you
know expertise.
And I felt that that was sospecial because, you know, sarah
(01:37):
, when you and I collaborated ona few events and we were
basically bringing that you knowretirement plan plain English,
yet really you know, amplifiedwith plain English, yet really
amplified with good experienceand expertise knowledge to
others, I thought that there wassomething really special there,
feeling like you were a mentorto me, even though we didn't
necessarily call it that and,teresa, that definitely was then
(01:58):
the case when you and I met,and it was then really fun to
meet James, who, when James, youand I started chatting about it
, said, like me, too, I had thatsame experience.
That was so awesome and it was,you know, beautiful to notice
that, james, you were speakinginto something really special
here, which is that you had avery strong female role model in
(02:21):
the industry for you know, allkinds of things.
Again, back to that technicalexpertise, that was a big deal.
But when we spoke, james, aboutSarah, what was really
beautiful to notice is how muchyou were, you know, inspired by
her as a human.
So we invited you guys to talkhere on the show about that
(02:41):
relationship.
So, mentorship, sponsorship ofeach other, supporting each
other and tell us, sarah, first,what really was the moment, the
pivot moment, that brought youguys together into each other's
lives and how did meetingactually change a trajectory for
each of you?
So we'll start with you, sarah.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
I was actually in Dubuque, iowa, doing a training
for a big retirement servicesgroup, when I got a call from
Fordham, where James went toschool with my daughter from the
dean of the Honors Collegethere, who usually would not
call me, and so it was a littlefrightening.
And he said you know, I've beenworking with your daughter,
(03:24):
nicole, on a project.
I haven't been able to reachher.
It was this summer and Iwondered if you had heard from
her.
And I immediately panicked andsaid you know, I haven't heard
from her in two weeks.
And thought in the back of mymind what kind of mom is not
paying attention to her kidwho's living in New York?
And she hasn't talked to herfor two weeks.
(03:46):
So I pulled over.
I was driving a rented red FordTaurus and he heard the panic
in my voice and he said listen,we'll go find her, give me her
address, I'm going to put you intouch with one of the guys on
campus here and we'll figurethis out.
I said all right, is he goingto call me back?
And he said yep, he'll call youback within 15 minutes.
(04:06):
And I'm sweating.
I'm sitting there in the HomeDepot parking lot hands on the
wheel, freaking out and in about10 minutes I get a call from
Tony, classic New Yorker.
Hey, hey, miss Semino, I gotchaHang on, I'm going to find your
daughter, I'll call you back.
I'll call you back.
(04:28):
Okay, so I'm still sittingthere.
I get a call 15 minutes laterand I hear Tony say hey, hey,
here's the phone, talk to yourmother.
And he hands the phone toNicole and she says mom, and
that was it.
That was enough to get me on aplane, fly to Chicago, fly to
New York.
And I told her on the calldon't go anywhere, don't do
(04:51):
anything, I'm going to be there.
Might be two in the morning,but I'll get there.
So I got there in her apartmentin the Bronx which we'll tie to
James in a moment and I knockedon the door and she opened the
door.
Knocked on the door and sheopened the door and this was my
straight A, captain of thedebate team, very driven
daughter who I thought I wouldnever have to worry about, and
(05:15):
her red hair was matted to herhead.
She was pale, white, she lookedterrible and she burst into
tears and grabbed me and saidI'm failing.
I failed at everything.
I don't know what I'm going todo and all the thoughts of pull
yourself up by your bootstraps,get straight A's check all the
(05:36):
boxes went right out of my head,gone in that instant.
Talk about a pivot.
I said, look, we'll figure thisout.
School doesn't matter, it'sirrelevant.
You matter and we're not goingto focus on failure.
We're just going to get youwhatever help you need.
And I want to make sure youknow she's gone on to become a
(05:59):
therapist and has done greatwork.
And so this isn't really abouther, it's more about me, about
me.
And in that moment, standing inthat Bronx apartment which James
knows well, I realized thatlife wasn't about checking the
boxes and achievement andstrength.
It was about compassion.
(06:20):
It was about falling down andgetting up.
Later, nicole told me, after weworked through a lot of this,
she said you know, I felt like Ihad fallen in the bottom of a
well and all the sides weresmooth, I couldn't crawl out and
I put my hand up and then yougrabbed my hand and pulled me up
and that was profound for mebecause I'm a very type A type
(06:44):
of person.
Since that moment I have notbeen as type A and as a result
of all this, she I felt, and shefelt it was important for her
to stay in New York, maybe takea semester off, stay in the
apartment really kind of youknow, not feel like she failed
just get through the day-to-day,which we did.
So I was there a lot, I wasflying back and forth, I was
(07:07):
hanging out in the apartment andshe says you know, upstairs you
should meet James, kevin.
Was Kevin your roommate, jamesat that point Right.
So Kevin Fitzgerald wasNicole's best friend's brother,
who was also going to Fordham.
He had the apartment upstairsand she said he's Kevin's
roommate, you're going to lovehim.
(07:27):
I'm like, hey, whatever, I gota lot of stuff to do and got to
get you through school.
And you know she's like, oh,it'll be great.
So that was how I met James,because I was always at the
apartment hanging out, try tomake sure that she was back on
track.
And as things started toprogress and she started to
recover and that was a longprocess that was also
(07:49):
eye-opening for me.
Anybody, by the way, can falldown and fail like that.
Anybody, I don't care who youare, and reaching out to one
another when that happens iscritically important.
So James comes over, as Jamesdoes when he finds out I'm there
and he's like wants to meet meand I love to cook and we were
(08:11):
cooking, actually oddly enough,italian food, because they lived
in the little Italy part of theBronx and they had amazing.
You could go out and get, youknow pasta from the pasta store,
and bread from the bread store,and wine from the wine store,
and you know ragu that washomemade.
All of that stuff was literallywithin three blocks of their
apartment.
So I bought all the stuff andwas cooking dinner and James
(08:33):
came in and I met him andthought, wow, there's some
connection with this guy.
He's just somebody easy to talkto, asks a lot of questions
unusual for people his age.
So I still call him an old soulbecause he asks questions and
he listens to the answers.
And that was unusual.
(08:54):
Nicole, during this dinner, saidlook, my mom is dying to get me
in her business and I have nointerest in it.
But, james, you'd be great.
So I said okay, james, you knowyou want to tag along with me
and see what it's about.
I'd love to have you do that.
So, james, you can take it fromthere.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I've known Nicole for a couple years, um and through
through Kevin, through thatmutual friend of ours, um, and
had heard a lot about Sarah.
You know this Kevin, uh, hadsaid how cool she was.
He's like, oh, you got to meetMiss Sarah next time she's in
town.
So I had had that in the backof my mind when I first met over
dinner.
And I tell people thatbasically this was coming at a
(09:38):
time in my life where I had beenat the tail end of a history
degree, realizing that that Idid not want to go into academia
, which was, you know, the mainpath.
I had seen people and alsotaken history, take um, didn't
(09:58):
want to be a lawyer, which Iknow is the other big big thing
that people with history degreesoften went into.
So I was having this kind ofwell, what did I just spend the
last four years of my life doing?
Um, what am I going to do withmy life?
Essentially?
That I'm sure a lot of peoplein their early 20s can attest to
(10:19):
.
So that's when I met Sarah andI think the idea had originally
been planted when Nicole saidsomething about an actuary that
her mom, you know, worked as anactuary for an actuary, and I
had no idea what an actuary wasat that point, you know, as a 21
, 22 year old.
So I said jokingly that soundsawesome, I want to do that.
(10:42):
And that's when you know.
That's when Nicole startedthinking, hey, maybe you and my
mom would be a perfect match.
And so over dinner essentiallyshe had convinced me, let's give
this retirement plan thing a goand see if it sticks.
12 years later, maybe 13 yearslater, I don't know how long
it's been here.
(11:03):
Here I am still working in thebusiness and still working
closely with Sarah.
So that was absolutely a majorpivot that I was thinking about
earlier this morning.
I can find threads, bothpersonal and professional, that
maybe not even at first Sarah is.
She's not in the foreground,but if I start pulling that
(11:23):
thread long enough Sarah'sinfluence and often coming down
to that moment where we firststarted talking about the
retirement plan business, I seeher impact in my life at almost
every turn.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Like most of us, you kind of fell into this business,
and I don't think at 21, any ofus knew what an actuary was or
what they did.
It always amazes me when I findsomebody going to actuarial
school who wants to book me anactuary in college and I'm like
I didn't even know what that was.
So I love that part of thestory and I think it's totally
true.
And, sarah, like you know, Ithink what your thing about
(11:59):
Nicole is is that anybody cansuffer that at any time, even
you know I've talked very openlyabout the burnout and you know
some of those other things.
So I think that's we try tohide that, but and don't know
how to ask for help, and Nicoleclearly didn't really know how
to ask you for help, right Likeyou know, she had to.
I loved your you know the wellstory about how the well was all
(12:22):
you know, and she reached upand you were there and and we
all need that.
So I loved that part of hisstory.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, yeah, I love thinking about it as you guys
are talking about the buildingin the apartment.
You know those movies wheresometimes they pan out and then
you can see different lives youknow, because you're looking
through the windows in theapartment.
And so, you know, if we zoom outlike that and imagine, you know
, there you are, james, up there, you know, thinking about your
(12:48):
identity and who you are and whoyou want to be, and is that
going to work?
And then there's, you know,right underneath you and Nicole
and Sarah are making dinner.
You know, talking aboutsomething similar, and what I
love about this is and I thinkthat just ties back to my
original comment how it reallyis this you know this experience
of each other as humans.
First that then not just to sayyes, I'd like to work with you,
(13:13):
I'd like to get to know youbetter, you know.
So that is one wonderful way toget really excited about.
You know your subject matter,expertise and the field that you
want to go deep into.
You know, just start noticingthere's some really cool people
here and I'd like to get to knowthem better and have more you
know experiences.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, and I think that's one thing Sarah and I
certainly share, and I thinkboth of you share, is that idea
of approaching somebody fromkind of a human perspective.
I've always yeah, you alwayshear things about professional,
you know keeping thingsprofessional versus personal.
Professional, you know keepingthings professional versus
(13:54):
personal, and I think Sarah haskind of taught me, and we both
kind of shared that philosophyof let's approach any
relationship first from thathuman and kind of perspective of
a friend and then it's hey, ifwe work together, great.
But first and foremost, how arewe lifting each other up as
human beings?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
So yeah, I love that.
So, sarah, talk a little aboutwhat called you to kind of
mentor and open doors for Jamesright at that time.
Tell us what that looked likefor you a little bit.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
So I actually took him on the road with me.
I was doing some speaking, asyou all know, and I took him to
a couple of conferences andwhere I was speaking at some
advisor meetings.
And what struck me about Jameshere?
He's 22, and I'm throwing himinto this with both feet and he
was fine because he askedquestions.
He would go find out aboutpeople, find about who they are
(14:52):
and connect with people.
And then his first job Iconnected him with a client and
he, you know, put his head down,learned the business, got his
credentials and continued on.
You know, in a series he'sworked in ops, he's worked in
administration, he's worked insales, he's worked in management
.
You know he's had a fullexperience.
(15:13):
He never said no to me, whichwas huge, and you know I'm a big
believer in saying no, but hewas like nope, I'll do it, I
don't care.
And my favorite story aboutthat was he was in between, he
left the business, left ERISAfor a while to try something
else, which is fine.
I did say to him I don't thinkthis is going to work out, but
(15:37):
you know you, you do, you, youtry it, it's.
I'm proud of you for trying it.
And he called me nine monthslater and he goes okay, the
first thing I want to say isyou're going to say I told you
so.
And I went oh great, you'releaving the gig.
Cool, I wasn't saying I toldyou so.
So I basically went to a clientand said here, here's this guy
(15:59):
who left for about nine months,but he's great.
And he got hired and I'm, youknow, I didn't think twice about
it because I knew James wasgreat.
I'm sitting on a webcast,somebody banging on my door.
I actually have to pause thewebcast, go to the door.
There's a FedEx gal there witha case of wine and I thought you
know, I didn't order any wine.
(16:19):
She goes no problem, I'll takeit.
And I'm like no, no, it's okay,I'll sign for it.
I bring the wine in, I open upthe card and it's from James's
mom and it's my favorite wine,which is cake, bread, cabernet.
And she said I can't thank youenough for what you've done for
James.
We're so lucky to have you inour lives.
(16:40):
And so there's look at thatconnection, you know, amazing.
So when he left the most recentgig, which was the wine gig
where I got him, he said look,I'm ready to hang out a shingle.
I've got all the knowledge Ineed, I've done everything.
And I said funny thing, I'mready to pack up my shingle and
put it away.
How about we work together andI'll say yes to more projects if
(17:03):
you're willing to do them?
And so we started that.
And, you know, both of us saidif it doesn't work, it doesn't
work.
But it's been wildly successful.
It's been phenomenal for me,because the one thing you don't
have an infinite amount of inyour life is time, and I want
time with my family, with myfriends, with my husband.
(17:23):
James has given me that gift oftime, which is incredibly
precious.
So that's how we got to wherewe are today.
My purpose, clearly because ifyou look at my past has been to
find people and open doors forthem, and when you do that, it
also helps you right, becausenow you don't know what you're
(17:46):
putting out there in theuniverse that might come back to
you in a very positive way, ina very positive way.
So I believe that if you arehere to do something, finding
that path and finding whatyou're supposed to be doing is
critical, and then, whenever youcan, I believe we're all here
to help one another.
That is the core being forevery human on the planet.
(18:08):
The further you get away fromthat, the more difficult life
can be.
So I think that that is from ahuman perspective where I
pivoted with Nicole and thenhave since then really focused
on what I can do for others,because it's always going to
benefit me in the long run aswell as them.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
That awareness of you know there's not a lot of time
left that that is something thatinspires you, and so it sounds
to me like what you just sharedcan really be also one of our
conclusions here in terms of howwas all of this pivoting, both
with Nicole, but then also, youknow, finding someone to support
you.
How is that a step forwardreally, personally, for you.
So would you mind closing itout with that, and then, sure,
(18:54):
sure, and I would say James.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
I would say, and I will ask James.
I would say I learn more fromthe people I mentor or work with
day to day.
Then I feel like I give out andlearning from them has been so
wonderful.
But James in particular hasbeen so wonderful.
(19:17):
But James in particular, I feellike I'm deeply connected with
him in that way.
He says he leaves his callsenergized.
I leave those calls feelinglike I've learned something I
didn't know before, which issaying something because I've
been around for a while.
So I would say, james, whatwould your thought be on that in
terms of what you've learned?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Sarah's never made me feel like I'm lesser just
because she can open more doorsor she's more established or
experienced.
So giving me that ability toboth learn and teach others at
the same time is something thatI think will continue to benefit
(19:55):
me going forward from here.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Awesome, amazing conversation.
And the mentoring is so true,sarah, what you said I get as
much out of mentoring others asI did when I was younger and
people were mentoring me.
I so enjoy, because it is adifferent world now and thoughts
are different and things aredifferent, but it is so
(20:20):
fulfilling when you, you know,work together and I think that's
really what we love about thisconversation and what came out
of this today.
So thank you both for beinghere.
We really do appreciate it.
Evie, do you have any finalcomments that you want to make?
Speaker 3 (20:36):
That's how so inspiring this is, and I am
excited to see James, over theyears to come, step more into
some of these same roles,because I think this is what
happens, that's, impact andinfluence at work.
I think, james, emulating whatyou've been learning from Sarah
is going to be, just, you know,something I look forward to, to
(20:57):
continue to witness, and I justlove, also, sarah, you bring in
this full circle from you know,starting with an example where
you dropped what you were doing,could go tend to your family,
and that can be a fast move.
It can be a jolt.
It can be something that is aresponse or reaction to a piece
of news that you didn't want toreceive.
(21:18):
You didn't want to receive thatphone call.
Or it can be something that ismore intentional, like what
you're doing now.
I'd like to create more timewith my family.
I'd like to create more timewith some of these circumstances
where I'm just at home with abeloved and cooking.
I'm just at home with a belovedand cooking.
So let me be intentional aboutit and, you know, ask for help
(21:39):
proactively rather than it being, you know, in response to some
kind of a jolt.
So I just love, love,considering both of those
examples of you know intentionalpivoting and you know pivoting
when life, just you know, givesyou no option.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Thank you again to Sarah and James for being here
today.
We really enjoyed having youand love the message that we
could share.
So to our listeners, you'llhear from us again and possibly
see us too in a couple of weeks.
And remember if you have apivot step into it.
Hello everybody, welcome to this week's episode
of Step Into the Pivot.
So this is a first for us.
We have two guests today, soI'm super excited about it.
Sarah Simino.
Sarah and I have known eachother for probably more years
than we would like to admit, sothank you, sarah, for being here
.
We're happy to have you, thankyou.
And then James Passarelli.
(00:22):
So, james, we welcome you aswell, and we're really looking
forward to this kind of uniquestory.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Me too.
Thanks for having me, guys.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah.
So I would love to just setthis up for our listeners to say
that we all know each otherfrom deep within the retirement
plan industry that is loadedwith technical knowledge, and
these two women first andforemost I wanna highlight Sarah
and Teresa.
Those are the women to whom Ireally turned for both a
(00:55):
combination of advice when itcame to the technical knowledge
and technical side of things.
Qualified plans wereintimidating to me when I first
started working with them andboth of you made them palatable
and one of the theory of it andthe experience of that, like I
can do it, came from both of you, essentially role modeling
(01:17):
something for me which was thatit's okay to be authentic, okay
to be yourself and you know whenI would interact with each of
you, respectively to be plainEnglish about it, while still
backed up with a lot ofknowledge and theoretical you
know expertise.
And I felt that that was sospecial because, you know, sarah
(01:37):
, when you and I collaborated ona few events and we were
basically bringing that you knowretirement plan plain English,
yet really you know, amplifiedwith plain English, yet really
amplified with good experienceand expertise knowledge to
others, I thought that there wassomething really special there,
feeling like you were a mentorto me, even though we didn't
necessarily call it that and,teresa, that definitely was then
(01:58):
the case when you and I met,and it was then really fun to
meet James, who, when James, youand I started chatting about it
, said, like me, too, I had thatsame experience.
That was so awesome and it was,you know, beautiful to notice
that, james, you were speakinginto something really special
here, which is that you had avery strong female role model in
(02:21):
the industry for you know, allkinds of things.
Again, back to that technicalexpertise, that was a big deal.
But when we spoke, james, aboutSarah, what was really
beautiful to notice is how muchyou were, you know, inspired by
her as a human.
So we invited you guys to talkhere on the show about that
(02:41):
relationship.
So, mentorship, sponsorship ofeach other, supporting each
other and tell us, sarah, first,what really was the moment, the
pivot moment, that brought youguys together into each other's
lives and how did meetingactually change a trajectory for
each of you?
So we'll start with you, sarah.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
I was actually in Dubuque, iowa, doing a training
for a big retirement servicesgroup, when I got a call from
Fordham, where James went toschool with my daughter from the
dean of the Honors Collegethere, who usually would not
call me, and so it was a littlefrightening.
And he said you know, I've beenworking with your daughter,
(03:24):
nicole, on a project.
I haven't been able to reachher.
It was this summer and Iwondered if you had heard from
her.
And I immediately panicked andsaid you know, I haven't heard
from her in two weeks.
And thought in the back of mymind what kind of mom is not
paying attention to her kidwho's living in New York?
And she hasn't talked to herfor two weeks.
(03:46):
So I pulled over.
I was driving a rented red FordTaurus and he heard the panic
in my voice and he said listen,we'll go find her, give me her
address, I'm going to put you intouch with one of the guys on
campus here and we'll figurethis out.
I said all right, is he goingto call me back?
And he said yep, he'll call youback within 15 minutes.
(04:06):
And I'm sweating.
I'm sitting there in the HomeDepot parking lot hands on the
wheel, freaking out and in about10 minutes I get a call from
Tony, classic New Yorker.
Hey, hey, miss Semino, I gotchaHang on, I'm going to find your
daughter, I'll call you back.
I'll call you back.
(04:28):
Okay, so I'm still sittingthere.
I get a call 15 minutes laterand I hear Tony say hey, hey,
here's the phone, talk to yourmother.
And he hands the phone toNicole and she says mom, and
that was it.
That was enough to get me on aplane, fly to Chicago, fly to
New York.
And I told her on the calldon't go anywhere, don't do
(04:51):
anything, I'm going to be there.
Might be two in the morning,but I'll get there.
So I got there in her apartmentin the Bronx which we'll tie to
James in a moment and I knockedon the door and she opened the
door.
Knocked on the door and sheopened the door and this was my
straight A, captain of thedebate team, very driven
daughter who I thought I wouldnever have to worry about, and
(05:15):
her red hair was matted to herhead.
She was pale, white, she lookedterrible and she burst into
tears and grabbed me and saidI'm failing.
I failed at everything.
I don't know what I'm going todo and all the thoughts of pull
yourself up by your bootstraps,get straight A's check all the
(05:36):
boxes went right out of my head,gone in that instant.
Talk about a pivot.
I said, look, we'll figure thisout.
School doesn't matter, it'sirrelevant.
You matter and we're not goingto focus on failure.
We're just going to get youwhatever help you need.
And I want to make sure youknow she's gone on to become a
(05:59):
therapist and has done greatwork.
And so this isn't really abouther, it's more about me, about
me.
And in that moment, standing inthat Bronx apartment which James
knows well, I realized thatlife wasn't about checking the
boxes and achievement andstrength.
It was about compassion.
(06:20):
It was about falling down andgetting up.
Later, nicole told me, after weworked through a lot of this,
she said you know, I felt like Ihad fallen in the bottom of a
well and all the sides weresmooth, I couldn't crawl out and
I put my hand up and then yougrabbed my hand and pulled me up
and that was profound for mebecause I'm a very type A type
(06:44):
of person.
Since that moment I have notbeen as type A and as a result
of all this, she I felt, and shefelt it was important for her
to stay in New York, maybe takea semester off, stay in the
apartment really kind of youknow, not feel like she failed
just get through the day-to-day,which we did.
So I was there a lot, I wasflying back and forth, I was
(07:07):
hanging out in the apartment andshe says you know, upstairs you
should meet James, kevin.
Was Kevin your roommate, jamesat that point Right.
So Kevin Fitzgerald wasNicole's best friend's brother,
who was also going to Fordham.
He had the apartment upstairsand she said he's Kevin's
roommate, you're going to lovehim.
(07:27):
I'm like, hey, whatever, I gota lot of stuff to do and got to
get you through school.
And you know she's like, oh,it'll be great.
So that was how I met James,because I was always at the
apartment hanging out, try tomake sure that she was back on
track.
And as things started toprogress and she started to
recover and that was a longprocess that was also
(07:49):
eye-opening for me.
Anybody, by the way, can falldown and fail like that.
Anybody, I don't care who youare, and reaching out to one
another when that happens iscritically important.
So James comes over, as Jamesdoes when he finds out I'm there
and he's like wants to meet meand I love to cook and we were
(08:11):
cooking, actually oddly enough,italian food, because they lived
in the little Italy part of theBronx and they had amazing.
You could go out and get, youknow pasta from the pasta store,
and bread from the bread store,and wine from the wine store,
and you know ragu that washomemade.
All of that stuff was literallywithin three blocks of their
apartment.
So I bought all the stuff andwas cooking dinner and James
(08:33):
came in and I met him andthought, wow, there's some
connection with this guy.
He's just somebody easy to talkto, asks a lot of questions
unusual for people his age.
So I still call him an old soulbecause he asks questions and
he listens to the answers.
And that was unusual.
(08:54):
Nicole, during this dinner, saidlook, my mom is dying to get me
in her business and I have nointerest in it.
But, james, you'd be great.
So I said okay, james, you knowyou want to tag along with me
and see what it's about.
I'd love to have you do that.
So, james, you can take it fromthere.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I've known Nicole for a couple years, um and through
through Kevin, through thatmutual friend of ours, um, and
had heard a lot about Sarah.
You know this Kevin, uh, hadsaid how cool she was.
He's like, oh, you got to meetMiss Sarah next time she's in
town.
So I had had that in the backof my mind when I first met over
dinner.
And I tell people thatbasically this was coming at a
(09:38):
time in my life where I had beenat the tail end of a history
degree, realizing that that Idid not want to go into academia
, which was, you know, the mainpath.
I had seen people and alsotaken history, take um, didn't
(09:58):
want to be a lawyer, which Iknow is the other big big thing
that people with history degreesoften went into.
So I was having this kind ofwell, what did I just spend the
last four years of my life doing?
Um, what am I going to do withmy life?
Essentially?
That I'm sure a lot of peoplein their early 20s can attest to
(10:19):
.
So that's when I met Sarah andI think the idea had originally
been planted when Nicole saidsomething about an actuary that
her mom, you know, worked as anactuary for an actuary, and I
had no idea what an actuary wasat that point, you know, as a 21
, 22 year old.
So I said jokingly that soundsawesome, I want to do that.
(10:42):
And that's when you know.
That's when Nicole startedthinking, hey, maybe you and my
mom would be a perfect match.
And so over dinner essentiallyshe had convinced me, let's give
this retirement plan thing a goand see if it sticks.
12 years later, maybe 13 yearslater, I don't know how long
it's been here.
(11:03):
Here I am still working in thebusiness and still working
closely with Sarah.
So that was absolutely a majorpivot that I was thinking about
earlier this morning.
I can find threads, bothpersonal and professional, that
maybe not even at first Sarah is.
She's not in the foreground,but if I start pulling that
(11:23):
thread long enough Sarah'sinfluence and often coming down
to that moment where we firststarted talking about the
retirement plan business, I seeher impact in my life at almost
every turn.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Like most of us, you kind of fell into this business,
and I don't think at 21, any ofus knew what an actuary was or
what they did.
It always amazes me when I findsomebody going to actuarial
school who wants to book me anactuary in college and I'm like
I didn't even know what that was.
So I love that part of thestory and I think it's totally
true.
And, sarah, like you know, Ithink what your thing about
(11:59):
Nicole is is that anybody cansuffer that at any time, even
you know I've talked very openlyabout the burnout and you know
some of those other things.
So I think that's we try tohide that, but and don't know
how to ask for help, and Nicoleclearly didn't really know how
to ask you for help, right Likeyou know, she had to.
I loved your you know the wellstory about how the well was all
(12:22):
you know, and she reached upand you were there and and we
all need that.
So I loved that part of hisstory.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, yeah, I love thinking about it as you guys
are talking about the buildingin the apartment.
You know those movies wheresometimes they pan out and then
you can see different lives youknow, because you're looking
through the windows in theapartment.
And so, you know, if we zoom outlike that and imagine, you know
, there you are, james, up there, you know, thinking about your
(12:48):
identity and who you are and whoyou want to be, and is that
going to work?
And then there's, you know,right underneath you and Nicole
and Sarah are making dinner.
You know, talking aboutsomething similar, and what I
love about this is and I thinkthat just ties back to my
original comment how it reallyis this you know this experience
of each other as humans.
First that then not just to sayyes, I'd like to work with you,
(13:13):
I'd like to get to know youbetter, you know.
So that is one wonderful way toget really excited about.
You know your subject matter,expertise and the field that you
want to go deep into.
You know, just start noticingthere's some really cool people
here and I'd like to get to knowthem better and have more you
know experiences.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, and I think that's one thing Sarah and I
certainly share, and I thinkboth of you share, is that idea
of approaching somebody fromkind of a human perspective.
I've always yeah, you alwayshear things about professional,
you know keeping thingsprofessional versus personal.
Professional, you know keepingthings professional versus
(13:54):
personal, and I think Sarah haskind of taught me, and we both
kind of shared that philosophyof let's approach any
relationship first from thathuman and kind of perspective of
a friend and then it's hey, ifwe work together, great.
But first and foremost, how arewe lifting each other up as
human beings?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
So yeah, I love that.
So, sarah, talk a little aboutwhat called you to kind of
mentor and open doors for Jamesright at that time.
Tell us what that looked likefor you a little bit.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
So I actually took him on the road with me.
I was doing some speaking, asyou all know, and I took him to
a couple of conferences andwhere I was speaking at some
advisor meetings.
And what struck me about Jameshere?
He's 22, and I'm throwing himinto this with both feet and he
was fine because he askedquestions.
He would go find out aboutpeople, find about who they are
(14:52):
and connect with people.
And then his first job Iconnected him with a client and
he, you know, put his head down,learned the business, got his
credentials and continued on.
You know, in a series he'sworked in ops, he's worked in
administration, he's worked insales, he's worked in management
.
You know he's had a fullexperience.
(15:13):
He never said no to me, whichwas huge, and you know I'm a big
believer in saying no, but hewas like nope, I'll do it, I
don't care.
And my favorite story aboutthat was he was in between, he
left the business, left ERISAfor a while to try something
else, which is fine.
I did say to him I don't thinkthis is going to work out, but
(15:37):
you know you, you do, you, youtry it, it's.
I'm proud of you for trying it.
And he called me nine monthslater and he goes okay, the
first thing I want to say isyou're going to say I told you
so.
And I went oh great, you'releaving the gig.
Cool, I wasn't saying I toldyou so.
So I basically went to a clientand said here, here's this guy
(15:59):
who left for about nine months,but he's great.
And he got hired and I'm, youknow, I didn't think twice about
it because I knew James wasgreat.
I'm sitting on a webcast,somebody banging on my door.
I actually have to pause thewebcast, go to the door.
There's a FedEx gal there witha case of wine and I thought you
know, I didn't order any wine.
(16:19):
She goes no problem, I'll takeit.
And I'm like no, no, it's okay,I'll sign for it.
I bring the wine in, I open upthe card and it's from James's
mom and it's my favorite wine,which is cake, bread, cabernet.
And she said I can't thank youenough for what you've done for
James.
We're so lucky to have you inour lives.
(16:40):
And so there's look at thatconnection, you know, amazing.
So when he left the most recentgig, which was the wine gig
where I got him, he said look,I'm ready to hang out a shingle.
I've got all the knowledge Ineed, I've done everything.
And I said funny thing, I'mready to pack up my shingle and
put it away.
How about we work together andI'll say yes to more projects if
(17:03):
you're willing to do them?
And so we started that.
And, you know, both of us saidif it doesn't work, it doesn't
work.
But it's been wildly successful.
It's been phenomenal for me,because the one thing you don't
have an infinite amount of inyour life is time, and I want
time with my family, with myfriends, with my husband.
(17:23):
James has given me that gift oftime, which is incredibly
precious.
So that's how we got to wherewe are today.
My purpose, clearly because ifyou look at my past has been to
find people and open doors forthem, and when you do that, it
also helps you right, becausenow you don't know what you're
(17:46):
putting out there in theuniverse that might come back to
you in a very positive way, ina very positive way.
So I believe that if you arehere to do something, finding
that path and finding whatyou're supposed to be doing is
critical, and then, whenever youcan, I believe we're all here
to help one another.
That is the core being forevery human on the planet.
(18:08):
The further you get away fromthat, the more difficult life
can be.
So I think that that is from ahuman perspective where I
pivoted with Nicole and thenhave since then really focused
on what I can do for others,because it's always going to
benefit me in the long run aswell as them.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
That awareness of you know there's not a lot of time
left that that is something thatinspires you, and so it sounds
to me like what you just sharedcan really be also one of our
conclusions here in terms of howwas all of this pivoting, both
with Nicole, but then also, youknow, finding someone to support
you.
How is that a step forwardreally, personally, for you.
So would you mind closing itout with that, and then, sure,
(18:54):
sure, and I would say James.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
I would say, and I will ask James.
I would say I learn more fromthe people I mentor or work with
day to day.
Then I feel like I give out andlearning from them has been so
wonderful.
But James in particular hasbeen so wonderful.
(19:17):
But James in particular, I feellike I'm deeply connected with
him in that way.
He says he leaves his callsenergized.
I leave those calls feelinglike I've learned something I
didn't know before, which issaying something because I've
been around for a while.
So I would say, james, whatwould your thought be on that in
terms of what you've learned?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Sarah's never made me feel like I'm lesser just
because she can open more doorsor she's more established or
experienced.
So giving me that ability toboth learn and teach others at
the same time is something thatI think will continue to benefit
(19:55):
me going forward from here.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Awesome, amazing conversation.
And the mentoring is so true,sarah, what you said I get as
much out of mentoring others asI did when I was younger and
people were mentoring me.
I so enjoy, because it is adifferent world now and thoughts
are different and things aredifferent, but it is so
(20:20):
fulfilling when you, you know,work together and I think that's
really what we love about thisconversation and what came out
of this today.
So thank you both for beinghere.
We really do appreciate it.
Evie, do you have any finalcomments that you want to make?
Speaker 3 (20:36):
That's how so inspiring this is, and I am
excited to see James, over theyears to come, step more into
some of these same roles,because I think this is what
happens, that's, impact andinfluence at work.
I think, james, emulating whatyou've been learning from Sarah
is going to be, just, you know,something I look forward to, to
(20:57):
continue to witness, and I justlove, also, sarah, you bring in
this full circle from you know,starting with an example where
you dropped what you were doing,could go tend to your family,
and that can be a fast move.
It can be a jolt.
It can be something that is aresponse or reaction to a piece
of news that you didn't want toreceive.
(21:18):
You didn't want to receive thatphone call.
Or it can be something that ismore intentional, like what
you're doing now.
I'd like to create more timewith my family.
I'd like to create more timewith some of these circumstances
where I'm just at home with abeloved and cooking.
I'm just at home with a belovedand cooking.
So let me be intentional aboutit and, you know, ask for help
(21:39):
proactively rather than it being, you know, in response to some
kind of a jolt.
So I just love, love,considering both of those
examples of you know intentionalpivoting and you know pivoting
when life, just you know, givesyou no option.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Thank you again to Sarah and James for being here
today.
We really enjoyed having youand love the message that we
could share.
So to our listeners, you'llhear from us again and possibly
see us too in a couple of weeks.
And remember if you have apivot step into it.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.