From Mafia Wars to a Life of Faith and of Gratitude: The Unbelievable Redemption Journey of Former FBI Fugitive Bob Gagliano, From Being on The Run to 51 years of Sobriety & Faith-Based Living!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:48):
Thank you very much.
All right guys.
Thank you so much and welcome.
I've got a special guest withme today.
I'm going to chat with BobGagliano.
He is a successful realtor andbroker for more than 30 years, I
think, maybe more than 40 years.
I have to clarify that Creditrecovery and improvement
specialist and I'm honored tocall him a friend.

(01:09):
So, bob, thank you so much fordoing this.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, thank you, stefan, I really appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
and been a long time getting here, but we're here we
had a lot of technicaldifficulties the last hour.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
I just meant the last technical difficulties.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
The last hour, bob, before you dive in, I just set
it up a little bit.
I have to tell everybody I'vebeen hosting webinars for 15
years or so, but we've only hadthe podcast for a couple of
months and just getting to knowyou and partner with you on a
couple of things that we'veworked on together and talking
with you, I've enjoyed chattingwith you so much and so I said
to you in passing a couple ofweeks or so ago, I'd love to
have you on as a guest and I wasthinking just talk real estate

(01:53):
and some of those normal things,because you have such a great
personality and I wanted toshare that with my community.
But then you told me your story.
Your backstory is a little morecolorful than I realized even,
and I think it's just anincredible story of the last
really 60 years of your life.
So that's what we're going totalk about today, just to set it

(02:15):
up for everybody, and I guessto start, you told me yesterday
you call it the pit, the prisonand the palace, right?
So talk to me a little bitabout what your origin story was
and how you got to the pointwhere you're at today, right?

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Well, I have my birth certificate here.
And that was my beginning.
And when I came out the doctorslapped me so I smacked him back
.
The nurse got in a few whacks.
I didn't want to hit a woman soI didn't hit her.
Got me really aggravacks.
I didn't want to hit a woman soI didn't hit her.
Got me really aggravated.
I was a kind of colorful guy.
Here's my driver's license andyou can see right over here I

(02:52):
don't know if you can see that,oh, your middle name's Pete.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
I didn't know that, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Oh, no, that's not my name, that's the name I made up
, that's my forge name.
Oh, okay, we'll get to that ina minute.
Yeah, okay, okay, all right,and so I had this.
Uh, I was in florida and myfriend rodney comes in the
apartment.
He says hey, bob, I got badnews for you.
I said what do you mean?

(03:17):
What do you mean?
He's all excited.
He was all.
He was sweating and running.
And he says you're hanging updown at the post office.
What do do you mean?
Hanging up down at the postoffice?
You're nuts.
I said they only put criminalsdown at the post office.
He says yeah, man, that's whatI'm trying to tell you.
You're a criminal, you'rewanted by the FBI and, you know,
by the state of Florida.
I says what are you crazy?

(03:38):
What are the charges?
He says oh, interstate flightrobbery, armed robbery and
forgery.
And I said no, you're lying,you're high or something.
What are you doing?
So he said no, man, I'm serious.
And he put the fear of God inme so much that I just kind of

(04:00):
said well, this can't be.
And so, one thing led toanother.
I said, well, this can't be.
One thing led to another.
Sure enough, here's my license.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Gosh.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
I was wanted by Robert Peter Caglio.
I don't know if you can seethat.
Am I close enough?

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, my gosh.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
That's the original license that I had.
It's illegal to have twolicenses.
The girl at the DMV, atMonterey DMV, said Well, if
you'll do me a favor and come tomy church and share your
testimonies, share your storywith the brothers there, I'll
let you have the license Becauseit was going to run out soon.
But it's illegal to have twolicenses at the same time.

(04:42):
So I ran all the way acrosscountry.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Well, and Bob, not to cut you off, I apologize, but
just because I did a horriblejob of kind of setting up, I got
distracted by all my technicaldifficulties here and so, just
so everybody kind of knows anidea of where we're going with
this, I'll go ahead and and givea little spoiler alert.
So okay, go ahead, you back in.
I guess late 60s, early 70s youwere kind of involved in.

(05:13):
I guess you'd call it a life ofcrime to some extent.
Is that fair to say?
yeah, you could say a little isthat slightly yeah and uh, you
know, and and I, I, I think themafia played just a touch and so
the mafia was involved.
Yes, sir, and basically thisstory is about and you know,
just you telling it to mepersonally just in getting to

(05:35):
know you, I was blown away.
I've been thinking about itever since you told me about it
because it's so powerful to me.
But it's really a story ofredemption, of how you got saved
from that situation that youwere in and you got blessed to
find God and what's led to yourlast 51 years of your life of
really a top here but being aservant of Christ and having all

(05:58):
the blessings that comes withthat.
But this is what led to that.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
That's a good way to set it up.
Yeah, usually they say hi,here's Bob, you know's bob, you
know, and they hear okay, bobyou cut the mic and I go, ah, um
, yeah, I was.
Uh, when he came running inthere, I was facing 20 years for
armed robbery and forgery and Iactually did it.

(06:21):
And I wasn't very religious atthe time as a matter of fact, I
hated religion.
I told my grandma to stoppraying for me.
It wouldn't work.
And she said, oh, I'll continueto pray for her.
I'll just, you know, say myprayers for you.
And she's sitting in this bigBoston rocker and she's just

(06:41):
rocking.
And she said, oh yeah, I'm justsitting here just praying for
you.
I said, grandma, don't do that,there's no way.
There's no way I can.
You know, god's not going to.
What does holy God want withsinful me?
And so one thing led to another.
I fled the state of Florida,came all the way to Las Vegas.

(07:02):
Now, just let me back up tojust a second.
Sure, I had gone to the churchwhere I was going at the time
and I wanted to talk to somebody.
So I knocked on the directorydoor and I said I need help.
And the very priest that saidto me on Sundays for years love

(07:24):
one another, forgive one another, you know, take God, you know,
and all this stuff.
I didn't want to hear any ofthat.
As a matter of fact, when mydad was an usher, he allowed me
to be an usher too, so when Ihad the basket I would pull for
cash out of the basket and not agood way to approach God, but I

(07:45):
wouldn't suggest that foranybody.
I wouldn't take any checksbecause then I'd have to forge
my name or forge their name onit.
I didn't want to do that at thetime, but anyway.
So I after that time I thoughtman, I am just the worst, not
only taking money from God andthe church and the people, but

(08:07):
putting myself in jeopardy.
And then I wound up robbing agas station and the guy said oh
yeah, he has his whole month'sreceipts in an envelope on the
left side of his desk and hisname was Mike S.
I won't say his last namebecause he hasn't given me
permission to do that, butanyway.
So it was Mike S and he and Ibroke into the gas station and

(08:34):
there was like $62.50 orsomething like that.
I mean $62 or $63, whatever itwas and I said where's all the
money, mike?
What's going on?
He said, well, well, theydeposited early and we were in
there on a Friday night and theydeposited Thursday morning or
something and what year was this, bob?

Speaker 1 (08:53):
do you remember what year this was?

Speaker 2 (08:55):
1971 and 72 okay, okay and I was already about 27
right in there.
Yeah, I was about 27.
And it was like up to thatpoint my pit was.

(09:18):
When I was born and I was takenhome on 376 Marguerite Avenue
in South Florida Park, longIsland.
It was.
My family did not appreciate meat all.
They did not love me, they didnot care for me.
They did what the religiousthing was, but they did not have

(09:42):
any personal relationship withme.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, the personal connection yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, nothing personal.
And so to me it was a bit.
I watched other dads and sonsgo out fishing and picnicking
and camping and so on and so on,bear hunting and so on, you
know, do all kinds of stuff.
I heard all kinds of storiesfrom all the guys and they
didn't really do that stuff withme.
And they didn't really do thatstuff with me.

(10:06):
I mean, when the family went toLake Tuganek up to Connick
State Parkway in New York it wasI was like there and they
couldn't say no to me at thattime because I was family okay,
and so we just went up there.
But even then, when my dad wasnot working, everything would

(10:27):
just come apart.
It wouldn't work at all.
We wouldn't have any kind ofclose fellowship or union.
He was kind of doing what hewas obligated to do, not what he
wanted to do or was passionateabout or what I wanted to do,
yeah.
And it just, it just wasn't, itwasn't.
It seemed like there was otherkids my age just having a fun

(10:51):
and frolic and fellowship and soon, and I wasn't getting any of
that.
So that was my pit.
I was really, uh, I, I left theparochial school that I was at
and I went to public school andthat to me, to my folks rather,
was a tremendous blow.
They said, oh no, he's grown upto be a bad guy.

(11:16):
And what is this going on?
And my younger brother, richie,he was the golden child.
He went to parochial grammarschool and parochial high school
and he had a friend called DocS, we'll just say and I remember
his name, but I'm not going tosay it, but anyway and Doc S had

(11:36):
an old 442 with a four-barreland dual exhaust and a
convertible.
It was a shiny red convertibleand Doc used to loan him his car
and so he was driving aroundall the time, you know, and he
always had friends with him andso on.
And then he met his wife-to-be,nancy.
One thing led to another andthey would have a great time and

(11:59):
him and Richie and Nancy wouldcome into the house.
My mom would just feed them anddo whatever, you know, serve
them whatever they wanted.
And when I brought my friendsover, it was like oh no, his
friends are here, like that, youknow.
And I go oh man, this is, thisis not family.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
You never really feel like you're at home in your own
home, because you're kind of aguest.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Exactly, I was not.
I was there in body, but onlybecause I had to be, only
because my bed was upstairs inthe second floor.
I really felt ripped off.
I really felt ripped off and inthose years it was just very
frustrating for me.

(12:43):
And this is what I looked likewhen I was.
Where am I going here?
I don't know if you could seethat or not.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, Handsome guy my friend.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
That was my guy there at that time and then so I'll
read from this from my lettershere I was finally went down to
I was working for NortheastAirlines at the time Yellowbirds

(13:18):
and they basically flew theeast coast of the United States
from Boston to Miami and KeyWest and Martha's Vineyard and
all those places up there inConnecticut and Rhode Island and
so on and Massachusetts.
And all the guys said in theramp I was loading baggage and
all the guys in the ramp, if youwant to really go places in
this company, put your, put yourbid in for a transfer.
So I thought, well, man, it'smidwinter, it's, you know, 10
below zero, freezing, cold,shoveling snow.

(13:40):
I said enough of this.
So I put my bid in for allplaces south, shoveling snow.
I said enough of this, so I putmy bid in for all places south,
so Miami, fort Lauderdale andwhere Disney World is.
I forget Where's Disney WorldOrlando, orlando.
So I put my bid in for that.
I said, well, florida's niceand warm, it'd be really great
to do that.
And at nine months seniority,the lead comes in and says so,

(14:06):
joe and Tom and Bill, you guys,you turned down the transfer to
Miami.
And so, bob, you're next inline.
So he says do you want to go toMiami?
I said, oh yeah, hey, yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, especially back then.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yes, sir, exactly, I was already dealing drugs and
dope and getting loaded andcutting out of school and all
that.
And so the people that I wasdealing dope with, or from
Doolip Hill Bowling Lens, doolipHill Bowling Alley, I was
always up at the hill and theywere treating me more like
family than my family was Now,that particular family, being

(14:45):
Italian and everything, was themafia family, and that's okay
because that's where I was atthe time.
So one thing led to another andI was getting deeper.
So from 15 or 14 and a half and15 to when I was 27, that was
my family and I was well thatwas my family and I was well

(15:06):
known for doing whatever.
And if I was broke on aThursday, I could go write a
dozen checks with a dozendifferent identifications and
licenses.
And so, steve, if you wouldhave wanted a video or a large
screen TV, recorder or whateverPCR, I would go buy tv, yeah,
you know recorder or whateverbcr.

(15:26):
Uh, I would go buy one for you,and then you'd pay me half price
.
So if it was you know 200 bucksor something, you paid me 100
or so.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh, I got.
So you get it with a forgedcheck and then I you'd make the
difference.
It's good deal for me, gooddeal for you.
I got you, you know yes, sir,exactly.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
So I got cash out of the deal, you.
You got your machine for freeand with the directions right in
the box, brand new in the box,and I did that every week.
I used to write hot checks andthen on Saturday or Sunday night
or Sunday during the day, Iwould get loaded, and I'd be
loaded until Thursday and thenI'd, so to speak, go to work
again.
That was my lifestyle for those12 years or so, from 14 to 27.

(16:09):
Oh, one other thing.
It was when I knocked on thepastor's door from the rectory.
I said you know, father, I needhelp.
And I was really loaded.
I probably hadn't showered intwo or three weeks, and I was
really loaded.
I probably hadn't showered intwo or three weeks, and I was
really, really wasted.
And I said I really need help.

(16:30):
You know, you're the ones beentalking to me about love and
forgiveness and everything everySunday, and I really need help.
And he looked at me and I musthave been blurry-eyed.
Or nickel slits for eyelids,you know like that.
I don't know how I looked, butit must have been glurified.
Or nickel slits for eyelids,you know like that.
I don't know how I looked, butit must have been pretty bad and
pretty smelly, because he tookone look at me and said no, I'm

(16:50):
sorry, we don't feed your kind.
And he slammed the door.
I said, wow God, what is goingon here?

Speaker 1 (16:57):
That just reinforced the pain that you were already
feeling from your family of nothaving a place that was your own
A lot of guilt.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
A place that was your own.
Yeah, a lot of guilt, a lot ofshame.
Uh, I knew my grandmother waspraying for me, but I also knew
that I had told her to stop, andwhether or not she did, I don't
know.
At that time I didn't know anddidn't care, I didn't want to
know.
And so it just got worse andworse and worse.
And it was when I gottransferred to florida.
Of course, I fell in with thecool crowd which was the smokers

(17:27):
and the tokers and the druggiesand the yelkies and so on, and
I just picked up where I hadleft off, from New York into
Florida.
And there came the federal guyscame to the airport one day
where I was working and theysaid are you, robert Gagliano?
And I said who's asking?

(17:49):
You know, I was reallysurprised and like when the
doctor slapped me, I slapped himback.
You know, like that I just Ihad no respect for authority,
none whatsoever.
I hated authority.
I hate being bossed around.
I didn't like my job.
Only the fact that I could flyfor free was my only perk of
that job.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
But the one thing I did do.
I had a belly of an 880,convair 880 from Northeast
Airlines and I held the recordat that time.
I held the record I don't knowhow many years for loading all
the bags in the front belly.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Okay, yeah, for Northeast Airlines.
Well, digress for a second here.
I guess it's funny because youhad that work ethic the whole
time and sounds like to meanyway.
You kind of just had a a bit ofa hole there that you were
trying to fill that wasn'tfilled by family, and then you
reached out a couple of areastrying to fill it, and then in

(18:46):
the short term what filled it,or felt like it did, was these
guys and gals doing whateverthey were doing, but ultimately
what filled it for you was God.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I was on the run from him too.
I was on the run from him.
The FBI, the mafia, the Lord,my ex-wife or my ex-wife at the
time, everybody wanted me forsomething, and I mean, so I
figured, okay, so I'd ride orrun.
When they told me I was hangingup on the post office, I had a

(19:15):
couple of forged checks andphony licenses and I just wrote
a check for the bus lines.
I wrote a check for theairlines.
I wrote a check for the buslines, I wrote a check for the
airlines, I wrote a check forthe trucking company, I wrote a
check to the leasing companyHertz, I think it was.
And so, anyway, one thing ledto another.
Just to show well, he wasbooked on this flight.

(19:39):
Here's his.
You know, they didn't have thisnowadays, but I could fake a
purchase and it would take thema day or two or maybe three to
figure out where I was actually.
Did I actually get on the bus?
Did I actually get on?
the train or the rental car.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
You had them looking in three different directions.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
yeah, yeah, what magicians do they do?
Misdirection a lot.
I mean, I didn't know theprocess at the time, but that's
what I was doing.
Misdirection a lot, I didn'tknow the process at the time,
but that's what I was doing.
Then I wound up renting arental truck under another
assumed name and I threw what Ihad, which was basically two
foot lockers Without the footlockers, just clothes and some

(20:17):
boxes, and threw it in the backend of the truck.
Then I met a couple of peopleand they said we're going west.
I said, well, where are yougoing?
They said, well, not sure, butwe think California.
And I said, oh, okay.
So we were traveling acrosscountry in a U-Haul truck and I
said, well, I got to stop andsee my dad.

(20:39):
I know he'll take me in, he'llhelp me and he had divorced my
mom after 23 years, a house andfour boys I was the oldest of
four boys and two cars andeverything, everything paid for,
and he was just.
I liked him because he had ahouse right in front of him, he

(21:01):
owned two cars.
I didn't have anything.
I hardly got the clothes on myback, other than what I wrote
hot checks for to buy clothes orwhatever.
When I knocked on his door and Iremember the priest said we
don't feed your kind, we don'thelp your kind.
When I knocked on his door, hetook one look at me and again, I
was probably very wasted andvery disheveled, very much a

(21:24):
mess, and probably hadn'tshowered in a couple of weeks.
Also, and he was working in thecasinos at the time as a slot
mechanic, but that was hisbackground.
He was actually a tool and tiemaker.
So I have this pull of a watch.
Yeah, this is a Caravelle watch.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, that's nice, and he made the springs to that.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
He made the springs and mainsprings to this watch.
Yes, that's what he used towork on when he worked for the
watch company and then he so heleft there and he left with his
girlfriend, soon to be wife,after he divorced my mom, which
was very because I was raised.
We're religious people.

(22:10):
We don't believe in divorce.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
That's the way it always was, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, always.
And he did it.
And I said man, what is hedoing?
Doesn't he know he's going togo to hell if he doesn't get the
divorce or whatever?
And then I was saying I wasn'teven thinking of me, I wasn't
even thinking of the bad stuff Iwas doing, because I knew the
worst I would get maybe would bepurgatory, because my
grandmother was praying for me.
I mean, that was my warped mind, that's what I was thinking.

(22:36):
I got to Las Vegas and thenknocked on my dad's door.
He did the same thing to me.
The priest said we don't feedyour kind.
And I was devastated.
I said Dad, I'm your number oneson.
And he said I'm sorry, don'tcome near me, don't come around
me.
I got to keep my job.
You're not important to meanymore like that.

(22:57):
And I go.
And my self-concept really wasshot down.
At that point I was no longer agoody, goody, good guy dealing
good dope.
I didn't pinch the back oranything.
As a matter of fact, if it wasanything, it was an ounce and
maybe a quarter that I wouldalways give you, so I'd always
make it good for business.
So it was like but when he saidthat to me, and the priest what

(23:20):
the priest had said to me thatno, we don't feed your kind.
He said almost the same exactword no, I can't help you, get
out of here.
You know, go, leave, go away.
And that's when I really, reallycried.
I just broke down.
So I got to California.
One of the first things I didwas I was able to buy a 750

(23:55):
Honda, a brand new 750 in 71.
And I think I bought a, not aused bike, but a brand new one
with a fairing and a screen anda buddy seat and so on and
saddlebags, a full dress Honda750.
And I was making the daily doperun from pacific grove to uh
seaside, which is on themonterey peninsula that's why I
told you this personally, butthat's where I ran.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
My first or my second marathon was seaside beautiful
area, by the way.
If you're going to be on therun, that's a good place to pick
, I mean and I just kind ofdisappeared and melted into the
crowd.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
I wasn't doing anything too crazy.
I was dealing a few drugs and Iwas making more money dealing
drugs than I was working.
And I was working at a handymanbusiness.
Uh, and I just every time I didsomething like like a roofing
job or a carpentry job or afence building job, I would
always ask the guy, the foremanor the supervisor that would be

(24:49):
working in that business, inthat industry, how do you do
this?
How do you figure out how manysquares in a roof, how do you
figure out how much squarefootage in a house and how do
you polish wood floors and allkinds of stuff like that?
And they would tell me oh well,here, you get the stuff here
and you put it on the ground andpolish it up with a polisher
that you can rent.

(25:10):
And so I had a handyman business, kind of like a front job,
right, and it paid me prettywell, nothing to write the
mother about, but it was prettywell.
And again, I was making thedaily dope run, like I said,
from Pacific Grove to Seaside,right through Monterey, and I'm
coming down down that streetit's Monterey Boulevard, I think

(25:34):
, but anyway I wouldn't rightdown there and it went right
past the dealership where I usedto work at, and so as I went
through a stop sign, this guymade a California stop.
So I don't know if you can seethis very clearly.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Let's see.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Can you see it?

Speaker 1 (25:55):
A little bit of glare , but is that the?
Maybe pull it back a little bit.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
And so this was the picture of how far I pushed.
There's a stop sign now.
The truck was going straight,uh maybe.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, if you can pull it maybe like a a foot back
there, then I think so okay,yeah back into the truck right
here.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
It's going to the.
It was going to the left alittle bit where did this
picture come from?

Speaker 1 (26:26):
is this from a traffic light, or where?
No, the uh, the cops took it ohwell, yeah, I guess that makes
sense so maybe this is better.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Is this better?

Speaker 1 (26:35):
there we go.
That's perfect, right there.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh yeah, okay you can see how far to the left the
truck pushed yeah, gosh wow 60or 70 miles an hour on that side
street.
That went along the coast withone block in from the coast wow
I pushed the truck that far, Iput my front tire against his
front tire and I pushed himsideways like that you were kind

(26:58):
of trying to tap him.
I guess there because he, whatwas the expression?

Speaker 1 (27:03):
well, Well, did he do the California stop or you did
the California stop, sorry?

Speaker 2 (27:08):
No, he did the California stop and I hit him.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
I had the right-of-way at the time, but I
was also wrong because I didn'thave the right, the proper
license or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Well, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
I had.
Everything was phony, so youcan see.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
There you go.
Yeah, that's perfect, rightthere.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, cop car, and then the truck is to your left,
right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
And I came from the right and this was I don't put
dates on these things, they justput code numbers Anyway this
was then about 1972, I guess.
Right, it sounds like about, um, it was september, september

(27:56):
1972, okay, and and that was uhthat I thought I had that
accident and of course, I had ajacket on with seven zippers or
eight zippers, either four onthe outside, four on the leather
jacket what leather jacket no,actually I was gonna say we had
the same style back in the day.

(28:17):
Then if you, you're right, itwas a.
It was a like a ski jacket orlike a parker.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
All right.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
A stuffed jacket.
It looked all big and puffy,but I had all my products with
me from my store and everypocket had a different type of
product in there, and so when Ihad my accident, they said, well
, you know, here's a better shotmaybe.

(28:45):
So here's where I had my carsalesman license and my business
car from Toyota when I sold myoh there, it is up there.
Yeah, sold cars at Toyota, andso when I put my tire against

(29:14):
his tire, I didn't bounce backSomething that I didn't know
about.
That I learned really fast.
Let me see if I can get thisout of here.
It won't come out, it's inthere or something.
It's probably so old, it's just.
Oh yeah, I got it taped inthere, anyway.

(29:35):
So it pushed the truck sideways.
Maybe you can see that.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, it's just nostalgic for me too, because I
love those old trucks.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
But yeah, no, I but anyway, yeah so, and there's my
motorcycle right here where myfinger is.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Okay, it's hard to see that, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
I got to be able to take it out of this, this, uh,
this plastic pauldron.
It's scotch taped in theredon't do it for me.
Yeah, no, but no it, yeahanyway, my bike is laying down,
so I hit my front tire into hisright front tire and I went
flying.
A little thing called inertiaand gravity and so on.
I went flying, I did a doubleand I landed.

(30:23):
My first landing was on my leftleg.
I broke my femur bone in halfand because I was wearing
leathers, the bones didn't comeout like this in a compound
fracture.
It went upwards like thisInstead of my leg being this
long, it was this long.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I was down on my foot and my right foot was the right
length.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Was this long?
Oh, my gosh Down at my foot andmy right foot was right length.
My left foot was way back herebecause my leg was so short, wow
.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
The femur bones the hardest, strongest, the biggest
bone in the body, the healthiestsupposedly, and I broke it just
like that because I went flyingand I landed on my leg.
The next time I landed on mywrist.
The second time I bounced and Ipulverized my wrist from here
to here.
So I have three scars here andthen I have a long, what they

(31:15):
call flap surgery, which wasexperimental at the time.
And instead of putting a bodycast on me and being laid up for
one and a half or two years,I'm thinking what does a good,
honest, dope dealer do when he'slaid up in the hospital?
He can't possibly deal from thehospital.
So one thing led to another andI said well, what else you got?

(31:39):
And he said well, we havesomething called intramedullary
nailing of the left femur.
What is that?
They said well, we're justgoing to cut you from your knee
to your hip this way.
And we're going to peel back theskin and we're going to put
your bones together and thenwe're going to drill down the

(31:59):
center of your thigh bone.
And this is my pen.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Stainless steel steel rod.
That's in there right now.
It was in there at the timeokay and uh, there's a little
hook here on the end here it'sgot a little hole yeah, yes, sir
um, they said, well, we'll justput a meat hook on there, a
hook, and yank it out of therewhen your skin is healed.
And they were thinking that ifmy bone was like this and here's

(32:30):
my nailing, okay, that the skin, that the two bones, would grow
back this way.
But it didn't.
It grew back this way.
It made my femur bone twice thethickness of my right leg and
it was actually like this herewas my rod, there was my knee on
this side, on the left side,there was my hip on that side

(32:52):
and this was in the middle andit grew back this way.
And that was very interesting.
So this is one of my souvenirs,yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Is that the actual one?

Speaker 2 (33:03):
That's the actual one , oh yeah.
Wow it looks pristine, twoinches long.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
My gosh.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
And they took the hip bone, the femur bone, out of
the hip socket and they drilleddown the center and they shoved
this down in there, right in themiddle of bone marrow, and then
everything would go around.
There's a space in here.
I don't know if you can seethat little space right in the
middle of bone marrow and theneverything would go around.
There's a space in here.
I don't know if you can seethat little space right in here.
See, and I actually got my nameon it Robert Gagliano for

(33:36):
10-14-75, age 30.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
That's when they took it out.
Yeah, and it's a concher.
They call it a concher pinning75, age 30.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
That's when they took it out.
Yeah, and it's a concher, theycall it a concher pinning a
concher.
And they said it's purelyexperimental and you'll be
famous because we'veexperimented on you and if
you're successful you'll befamous.
I thought, yeah, and what do Iget out of the deal?

Speaker 1 (34:04):
I mean, what is the?
You know?
Get your name in the paper,yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Oh, yeah, I made the papers.
Um, oh, I can show you thosethose things.
So it says uh, uh.
To my concern, robert Gaglio,which is my forgery name, was

(34:28):
with a fracture of the rightcarnal navicular.
A closed reduction with pinfixation of the right wrist was

(34:55):
performed and an open reductionintramedullary kneeling of the
left femoral shaft was performedon December 26, 1972.
Was performed on December 26,1972.
And the fracture of the leftfemur will take approximately
six months to heal and his rightwrist was removed from the cast
on February 16, 1973.
It's likely that this patientwill have some residual

(35:17):
permanent stiffness and pain inhis right wrist.
It is essential, it isestimated that he will be
disabled and unable to work athis usual occupation as a
tractor-trailer driver, or atleast for nine months.
I was trying to get healthbenefits and so on.
From the original injury.
His disability could last for12 to 15 months.

(35:39):
It is recommended that thispatient be retrained into
another field.
So this is the letter that theysent me that I just read to you
.
And again, it's this old, it'sthis old.
Here's maybe the letter.

(36:00):
Yeah Well, let me ask you too,not to digress too much, but
here's maybe the letter?

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah About that, yeah .
So Well, let me ask you too notto digress too much.
But how did it work from amedical standpoint?
I mean, did you have anyresidual pain or issues after
the fact, Because you're 50years past that date now?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
When I was doing roofing.
I'm right-handed so I'd hammer.
My hand would get tired, so I'dput the hammer in my left hand
and just hammer with my lefthand and I became ambidextrous.
It was the only positive thingout of the whole deal, but the
negative thing was that I waslaid up and I shouldn't be
working.
So that's when I totally dealtdope full-time.

(36:42):
That was my whole job.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Kind of push you into it even further.
Yeah, Exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
I worked nine to five , from nine at night to five in
the morning, and I'd hustle thedrunks in the bars.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
And now, Bob, were you already kind of on the run
at this point, or was thisbefore that had taken place?

Speaker 2 (37:01):
This was just before, in 1972.
I became on the run.
It was just after that, notlong after that, but it was just
after that that I had thismotorcycle wreck.
So that's that.
And then here's me with my castand my.

(37:26):
I had a my left hand in the seeit right in here yeah, it's a
little glary, but yeah, I gotyou, yeah, okay and then this
was I was.
There was a nurse there namedKathy and we hooked up and she
had three dogs Honey Bear.
And Honey Bear was a cutelittle black and white, black

(37:53):
and white, whatever.
Then there's Henry.
Oh, henry and Fred.
That's what it was.
Henry is the white.
Where is it?
Henry is a little white dogright in there, okay.
And then Fred was the pudgy.
He looked like a football withlegs.
He looked exactly like he wasshaped just like a football with
very short legs.

(38:13):
So there's Henry and Honey Bear, and so those are the dogs, and
I love those dogs, I love thosepets.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Here's a picture of Fred and no, yeah, fred and
that's pretty glary, but I thinkthe plastic might be giving us
a little glare there.
I'm sure it is.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Here we go.
Oh, this is in plastic too.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
No, that's good.
That's why it lasts, that's whyit's still here, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
January 1973, 1973.
This was taken, and so thatbetter oh, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Oh, beautiful, okay, yeah, I don't know.
You look like a pretty nice guyto me.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Well, that was the whole thing.
I I looked like a nice guy, butI'd shoot you as you were
looking at you with mybackground, and I didn't really
like doing that and being thatway.
But I figured, well, what's theworst that can happen?
Purgatory, maybe, because mygrandmother was praying for me.
And so one thing led to another, and Kathy was a nurse and she

(39:32):
was an ER nurse, and that's howwe met in the ER.
And then, when I was gettingready to get released, I was
saying, well, gee, I don't knowwhere I'm going to go and what
I'm going to do, and all this.
So she said well, I have anextra room.
Why don't you just come staywith me for a while?

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
That's the picture there, and so it sounded good.
She was fairly pretty olderthan me, but she was fairly
pretty and and and we were morelike uh, we were more like a
nurse and patient and.
But after a while we just gaveinto the flesh and we were doing
everything that you shouldn'tdo or married people do.

(40:13):
During that time in thehospital stay, a priest came
around and he said we see thatyou're religious, you know
you're Catholic and everythingand you want to.
And I cursed him out right fromthe hospital bed.
Now my left arm was tied downbecause of IVs.
My right arm was tied downbecause I had a cast on all the
way to my wrist, my elbow, withmy whole hand, because my wrist

(40:37):
was pulverized and I'd swing andI'd hit you.
If I hit you with that cast, itwould really hurt.
So they had my right hand tieddown to that and my left hand
tied down so I wouldn't movewith the IVs and my left leg was
in traction because of thething and they were tractioning
out my bones like this, whichtook about a week and a half or

(40:57):
so and so I was just hangingthere and I couldn't do anything
.
There was a sign on my door thatsaid don't get close to him, he
will kick you.
Don't get close to him.
Doctors and nurses I mean I wasreally, and people would come
in and visit me and give medrugs and I would sell the drugs
to some of the nurses that werethere.
So then what happened was okay.

(41:20):
I felt really bad that I cursedthe priest out and I found out
where he was.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Well, and while you're getting that, bob, I mean
I have a.
It's funny.
You said that because I wasjust thinking to ask you this
question that I haven't askedyet actually, um, personally
either.
So while all this was going on,um it, it kind of sounds to me
like, even though you were doingbad things and you were living
a life that you didn't reallywant to live, but you're put

(41:51):
into.
That sounds like that religionand and god was kind of always
still on your mind in some way,is that?

Speaker 2 (41:59):
In some way, way, way , way back in the back of my
mind.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
But I kept thinking well, what the heck would Holy
God want with sinful me?
There's just no way.
I mean, he's the CEO andcreator of the universe, and
what would he want with me?
So this was a picture of mewith Father O'Halloran.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Hey, okay.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
In my cast with my crutch.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
You can't see my broken leg because it was
healing and I had over 100stitches in my femur Wow, my
bone.
But I got a hold of him one dayand then I have another picture
, also where he where he, hereit is.

(42:42):
I have another picture of himand I standing together too, and
he was just shaking hands.
I was saying well, father, I'mreally sorry for cussing you out
.
I was loaded on drugs and in alot of pain and I didn't really
realize what I was saying, whichis a total lie.
I hated authority and herepresented to me authority.

(43:05):
I didn't like the doctorshaving a rule over me, and so
one thing led to another andthey just.
I just hated authority.
So there's another letter here,and during this time, my
attorney from Saul Weingarten'soffice.

(43:27):
You can see his name rightthere Saul Weingarten.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, that's pretty clear there.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
yeah, you can see his name, right there, Saul
Weingarten.
Yeah, that's pretty clear there.
Yeah, he had given me one ofhis attorneys named Jim
McWhorter James McWhorter, andhe was in the Fremont
Professional Center, fremontBoulevard and Williams Avenue,
Seaside, california, 93955.
Yes, sir, and he was advocatingfor me, he was trying to get me
off.
I said, no, you don'tunderstand, I did it, I just

(43:55):
want to go to jail, do my facein 20 years while I'm robbing
and forgery and other things,drug-related things.
And he says, no, no, no, we'revery, very, very good attorneys,
we'll get you off.
I said you don't understand,I'm guilty, I just want to go
and get it over with.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
You were tired of having it hanging over your head
at that point.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, I hated it.
I hated it more than I knew.
I didn't realize how much Ihated it and how much fear I had
in me and I said this is not me, this can't be me.
I mean, it just wasn't me.
It wasn't what I thought I wasdoing with my life, but I
figured that I would have to bea mafia don or something to get

(44:36):
respect and get my parents tolike me.
My attitude, my self-awareness,I was very, very, very critical
of myself.
I'm a perfectionist by natureand being wanted like this was
totally against everything I wasraised and taught with.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Well, I don't have a school, a public school, Bob, I
haven't asked you this yeteither, but before we get in,
kind of the main important partof your story to me can you talk
to.
I know you mentioned that theMafia played a role in.
You know you're kind of on therun from them too, but I haven't
asked you what are thespecifics behind that.

(45:12):
What role did they play?
Because they were after youknow you're kind of on the run
from them too, but I haven'tasked you what are, what are the
specifics behind that?
What were?
What role did they play?
Because they were after you too?
Right, it was the law and itwas them.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
What was the story?
I knew names, places and datesof various people and and if I
decided to turn state's evidenceor something like that, I knew
places and dates and they didn'twant that happening at all If I
decided to turn state'sevidence or something like that.
I knew places and dates and theydidn't want that happening at

(45:42):
all.
And so one thing led to anotherand anyway.
So it just was very, very, verymuch feared for my life because
I knew they were going to comeand bust me.
I knew they were going to do me.
I was pretty cleverly hiddenunder an assumed name and alias.
I was pretty cleverly hiddenunder an assumed name and alias
and one time I was busted in NewYork City and I was put in the
tombs, which is the ManhattanInstitute of Men, the prison
there, All the tombs, becauseit's all catacombs throughout

(46:05):
the whole prison.
And I was arrested with 11complete sets of identification
and they didn't know which onewas me and none of them.
The reality was none of themwas me.
They were all me, but they wereforged and there was a spot on
signature because I had forgedthe license, the driver's

(46:26):
license, on each one.
But then the last one, the 11thone, was the one that I had
just made.
So I knew that I hadn't doneanything wrong under that name
and that's how I got the nameRobert Peter Aglio.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
A-G-L-I-O and it was like that's the one that the
bondsman let me out on.
That's the one that I met thebond.
I had the money for the bond.
I just put the money up for thebond and I think it was like
$10,000.
No, it was $1,000 for 10,000, Ithink it was, or 20,000, or

(47:05):
something like that.
I had the money.
I just wrote the bondsman moneyfor the.
It wasn't even a hot check, itwas actually a real check.
I had money in that accountunder the assumed name.
I had to open up an account.
I always opened up anotheraccount, but I had 11 complete
sets of identification on me andthe last one I hadn't gone
anything off with yet.
You know at that point, yeah,so I told him that was my name

(47:27):
and he asked me several times.
He says you sure this is yourname.
Now this is your currentaddress.
Oh, yes, sir, absolutely.
And I got out of that mess.
At least I got out of jail.
Yeah, it just fled.
And that's when I was workingwith northeast airlines and I
jumped on a plane with afootlocker full of clothes and
personal items and I went downto miami and then the whole

(47:50):
scene started all over againfrom there, from all the
experiences I had in new York, Iwent down to Miami and I was in
Miami and I was like the EastSide gang against the West Side
gang, and so the West Side gangwas the ones that was after the
West Side mafia and I was, so tospeak, in the East Side mafia,
because that's the guys who Iripped off and I just give me
your gun, give me your money.
And I just give me a gun, giveme a money.

(48:12):
I blow your name out, you know,and I just I can't even talk,
bad anymore.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
Well, that's what you said to me the other day.
I can't remember what we weretalking about, but I think we
were talking about your, your 51years sober.
You did a presentation orwhatnot, and you were saying
it's just like two totallydifferent people.
Right From that person then towho you are now.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, I couldn't even .
I couldn't even, I can't, Icouldn't even be bad.
I mean, now I can't, I can'teven imagine.
Yes, I know it was me, I know Idid it and I did do it, but yet
I, I can't even imagine whatwas going through my brain at
that time A lot of dope and alot of drugs and a lot of acid.
Miami is either like eitheryou're a tourist or you're a

(48:54):
criminal.
One of the two.
And so I was a criminal andeven though I worked for the
airlines, I was a criminal witha good, solid job and with nine
months seniority, I wastransferred down to Miami and
they shipped me down there and Igot a little houseboat right on
the Miami River and they toldme there were snakes and gators

(49:17):
in the river, and I didn'tbelieve them because I never saw
any of them.
But one afternoon I came homeafter my shift and there was a
huge alligator.
I had left the back fence open.
The houseboat, the gangplank onthe houseboat, was on the shore
side.
On the water side was a fenceand a gate and you always keep
the gate closed, but this oneparticular time I left the gate

(49:41):
open, obviously, and there wasan alligator sitting right there
on my houseboat.
That was kind of scary and Iwas throwing a few rocks at him
and he finally just got up likehe was half sleepy-eyed they're
fast Bob, I can tell you they'refast.
Oh yeah, oh, I know I didn'tcome near the boat.
I was thrown at him from theshore.
So he finally got up and, youknow, just went down in the

(50:04):
water again.
I go wow, this really is gatorcountry, and so that was kind of
scary, but it was very uniquehaving that houseboat.
And so that was January,february, march, april, may,
june, july, august, september,september 17th.
I was down at a place, at alittle fast food place called

(50:27):
Drive-A-Need, and people couldcall in and order pizza, and I
would call in and order grilledcheese sandwiches.
I love the grilled cheesesandwiches.
Still do to this day.
My wife makes grilled cheesesandwiches.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
That's one of my favorites too.
I like just a normal cheesesandwich too.
That was the Southern way to do.
It is the cheese sandwich.
You just put mayonnaise,mustard and a slice of cheese
Anyway.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, no, this was real life cheese.
This was real cheddar.
Yeah, no, this was real lifecheese.
This was real cheddar, andmaybe I'd put some relish in it
for flavor.
Oh okay, the cheese would meltinto the relish and it was
really good.
Anyway, I'm getting hungry.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
It smells good.
It was this lady that came inthat had ordered a pizza and
maybe about 4-11, you know, alittle fireball.
And she was going like this inmy face You're going to heaven,
you're going to hell, you'redemon possessed, you'll never go
to heaven.
And she was going like this inmy face and I wanted to swat her
like a little bug.
You know, I wanted to do likethat, but something just held me

(51:28):
back.
I figured well, I can't do, Ican't skip this girl, because
there's a witness sitting rightthere in the car and I was
waiting for my grilled cheesesandwich as well.
She just walked in front of meand grabbed a pizza which she
had already pre-ordered.
So September 17th, god comesinto my life and I had gone into
the bar where I always dealtdrugs and when I walked in that

(51:49):
day, all of a sudden everybodygot really freaked out.
From what I could see, themirror image was my face was all
white.
Their faces were all red andcrinkly and all like this they
had a pointy beard.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
They had two horns like this oh wow, they were
sitting there with a diamond tipon three of the pitchforks.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Oh, wow, okay, and he was sitting there with a
diamond.
Tip on three of the pitchforks.
Okay all right, and itliterally scared hell out of me.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Well, yeah, that would do it, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Being a Catholic boy.
You don't mess with the devil.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
No, I don't want any part of that.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
But what I was doing was, while I was walking into
the blackness of the bar, myface was getting like that red
and I looked at that and Ithought, man, that can't be me.
And this face was all white andthis face was all red with a
pointy beard, with a horn likethis.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
That's what you saw in the mirror when you were
looking at yourself.
You're saying Exactly.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
You know how they have the mirror behind the
bottles in the bar.
Yeah, and the guys, guys, therewas three or four guys sitting
at the bar.
Two of them went together andthen two other single guys
sitting tickling and they turnedaround, looked at me and what
they saw was an angel walkingand when their minds they saw an

(53:09):
angel plus, my face was allwhite.
But as I went into the BlackMissile Bar it was starting to
get red.
And I looked at that and holymackerel, this must be a bad
acid trip or something.
I did a lot of acid, a lot ofdrugs, a lot of crime, writing
bad checks and so on and doing alot of stuff.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
So I looked at that and I backed out and as soon as
I backed out, my face got whiteagain, except for the tip of my
ear was all red, but that wasstill in the darkness of the bar
, I guess but then I said I'mgoing to watch very closely
because somebody's playingtricks with me with cameras or
doing some weird lighting thingor something.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
I didn't know what they were doing, because I
walked in my face got really redagain and that really that
really shook me up.
That was the first time.
I mean guns and knives andeverything else that didn't
bother me.
This shook me up yeah and that'swhen l was literally scared out
of me.
And whenever you take out, yougot to put something in always.

(54:07):
So I jumped in my car a 59, achevy, a wagon.
I jumped in my cars light greenand I wagon.
I jumped in my car light greenand I went down Mingo Street.
I went down toward Mingo Street.
It seemed like it was aboutmiles and miles away.
You know what a Quonset hut is,one of those round buildings,

(54:27):
that's what it seemed like.
I was driving down and eventhough there was cars parked on
the side of the street, youcouldn't see them.
All you could see was thisquantadote Way, way, way down
there, and in the end, probablymiles down the road, it looked
like was this little light, alittle teeny light, and
something said go toward thelight.
I said, well, we go toward thelight.

(54:49):
What are you talking about?
Now?
I'm not, I'm missing.
I'm glossing over, just fortime and everything, the other
things I got involved with onrobberies and forgeries.
And so that night I saw Jesusgoing up through the clouds.
Not for the Pope or theCatholic Church or anybody there
in that room in the house I wasin, rachel had told me when she

(55:12):
was going like this, my namewas Rachel.
When she was going like this inmy face, she was saying you're
going to hell and everythingelse.
And then, when I walked in thebar and I saw my face turning
into the devil and I said no, no, no, that's not me.
And the only thing that Godunplugged my ears for was when

(55:34):
he said to me Bob, you are heavyladen, I will give you rest,
come unto me.
But then he called me hey, bob,like that.
And I knew that it was Godtalking.
And I could see Jesus going upthrough the clouds, all white
outfit, white light coming outof his collar and his hands.
His white robe was covering hishands, so you really just saw a

(55:55):
white cloth hanging down, andthen you couldn't see his feet.
This went all the way past hisfeet.
He was going up through theclouds, not for the Pope or the
Catholic Church or me there thatnight or the people in that
room that night, but for me.
He said, bob, you who are heavyladen, come to me and I will
give you rest.
And I could hear what soundedlike a locomotive, a steam

(56:17):
locomotive, coming from thekitchen to my right and going
through the living room whereall the people were sitting
around and it was a place calledthe Christian House.
I didn't know what that meant,but if they told me it was
church, I never would have gone,not in a million years.
And this locomotive was goingthrough the house and when it
got past me it grabbed me,literally picked me up out of my

(56:38):
chair and dropped me about oneinch from the rug.
And then I just dropped justthat inch and, like I'm looking
around and everybody was closingtheir eyes and they had their
arms up and they were waving,speaking these Mexican.
I thought it was Mexicanlanguage that I didn't learn in
school language, but I didn'tget this far.

(57:02):
Excuse me, but I never got thisfar.
So I thought it was Spanishthat they were talking.
They were talking this weird,strange language and they said
oh, now that you came to theLord, because I asked, I said I
don't know who you are, god, butkind of like Paul on the road

(57:22):
to Damascus, he said you know, Iam Jesus, whom you're
persecuting.
And he said it's God who lovesyou.
And I said what would holy Godwant with something that this?
There's just no way possible.
I'm a crook, a creep and acriminal.
I'm a druggie, I'm an alcoholic.
I got all kinds of chargesagainst me that they're still
trying to chase me, for Nobodycaught me the FBI or anybody

(57:45):
else.
I spent 35 or 40 days in ClarkCounty Prison where my dad was,
and I got picked up after Iknocked on his door and he
wouldn't return my calls.
There wasn't anybody I couldcall on and there was a couple
of jailhouse lawyers that werethere and they said, oh, you
just get out on a Ridge ofHabeas Corpus, they'll never

(58:07):
come.
It'll take two or three monthsfor them to get you All the
paperwork that they've got to gothrough to come from interstate
, from Florida to Las Vegas.
But you can get out on a Ridgeof Habeas Corpus and, sure
enough, that's how I got out ofLas Vegas.
And so, even though they hadprobably one of the biggest
offenders at that time it was in1973, in the can even though

(58:31):
they had my fingerprints, I hadall these phony licenses, yeah,
and so I never really had myreal license, my real name, it
was never connected.
So, even though my body wasbusted 11 times in the tombs in
New York, it wasn't me, it wasjust the guy that they thought
was me Robert Peter Caglio guy.

(58:52):
Okay, and I had to convince Iwas an incredible liar.
I had to convince the bailbondsman that this is my real
name, this is my real address,and he checked it out.
However he checked it out, Idon't know.
But whatever he did, he said,okay, I'll bond you out.
So I put up a couple thousandbucks.

(59:12):
I got out.
I fled from Florida to Miami.
Northeast Airlines didn'trealize they were transporting a
fugitive.
They didn't have that kind ofsecurity back then.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
And so my dad told me to turn me down.
That's when I met a couplepeople different people going to
the coast of California.
Oh yeah, man, we'll show youhow to go.
We'll go up Highway 1.
And if you've ever drivenHighway 1.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
I have yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
From I-80.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
It's windy.
Is that where you're?

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Oh, very Windy curvy.
It's windy as can be, yes, andsome spots.
If you look, you look straightdown at the cliff and the ocean
is below you, yeah, under feet,and at other times it's trees
and redwoods and like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Beautiful drive, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Oh, gorgeous drive Very, very slow.
So it took me almost 24 hoursto get from Las Vegas to
Northern California here and wesettled in Carmel Highlands,
northern California here.
And we settled in CarmelHighlands and we were burning
dead poison oak.
Very, very.
Even though it's dead it wouldmake a great fire.

(01:00:23):
But the smoke was I had a lotof poison oak on my face and
because I had a shirt on withtough down to here, I had gloves
of poison oak.
I had a two on with tough downto here, I had gloves of poison
oak.
I had a two-inch ring around mymiddle because my shirt was a
short-sleeved shirt and it wastoo small for me so it was

(01:00:44):
rising higher.
It was a two-inch ring aroundmy waist for poison oak and then
, because I wasn't wearing anysocks and just wearing sneakers,
I had my whole ankle, from thepart that was from the shoe all
the way to where the pants camedown.
I had a bunch of ring of poisonoak there.

(01:01:05):
That was an experience tryingto go to the hospital and not
have any money, not haveinsurance, not have any anything
Very frightened, felt, very bad.
My self-concept was really inthe tank and when I finally went
and got my stuff together byJuly 15th of 1974, I got two

(01:01:27):
freedom letters here.
Here's one from the stateattorney general and here's the
other from the state attorneygeneral.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Wow, so at that point .
So you're basically you'retrying to do your time.
At that point You're wanting toget it over with, you're tired
of being on the run, you'retired of living that life in
general and you're prettycertain that you're going away.
For 20 years or more, I wassure of it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
They said, well, well , with your crimes and your
background and your history, uh,you'll be going away for a long
time.
They didn't have three strikesthen, like they have now, but I
have been arrested multipletimes and, uh, the one in the
tombs, they got my fingerprintsbut they didn't get me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
They got these yeah they didn't get me yeah, well,
and then, and then you get thatnews from your attorney or
whoever gives you the news thatyou're just exonerated.
You're just free.
What?
Is that, why I mean not onlywas I exonerated and freed.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
The letter of july 2nd has been quoted to me by the
attorney general's office.
Upon reviewing our file, itappears that mr stephen
goldstein, one of our assistants, sent a letter of May 13, 1974,
indicating that this officewould not prosecute Mr Gagliano.
I'm closing a copy of thatletter.
Thus, it appears that thisoffice will not prosecute and
that our file is now closed inthis case.

(01:02:48):
And then the letter that theAttorney General sent was your
letter of July 2nd has beenforwarded to me by the attorney
general's office.
Upon reviewing our file, itappears that Mr Stephen
Goldstein, one of our assistants, sent a letter of May 13th
indicating that this officewould not prosecute Mr Gagliano.
I'm enclosing a copy of thatletter.

(01:03:08):
And it appears that this office.
The case is now closed.
So this was what.
This was the guy that turnedout.
That was really the good guy.
This was my first real licensewith my real name.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Okay, and you can kind of see the difference
honestly.
You can kind of see thelightness.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Oh, yeah, let me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
There's a sense of gratitude in the photo you could
see the two of them yeah sideyeah, wow, you can see, I can
see what you mean it.
You kind of can feel it twodifferent people yep, exactly, I
was two.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
I was two different people, but I became born again
and when the Christian housepeople took me down to the beach
that night, I could see icecubes in that water in the
Pacific Ocean on Monterey Bay.
I knew there was ice cubes inthere.
The water was freezing, thewind was blowing, it wasn't
rainy or anything, but just wasfoggy and messy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
It's always cold there, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Very cold.
Everybody was bundled up withscarves and two jackets, and
hats, and gloves and mittens andso on, and I'm there in just my
jeans, no shirt, no socks, noshoes.
They were going to take me outto the water about, you know,

(01:04:38):
knee deep, something like thatand when they laid me down in
the water, it was very cold,obviously, and I kept telling
God, I was running around on thebeach trying to get warm,
running back and forth, and Isaid God, you know, I'm from
Florida, you know that right.
The water is 80 degrees there,god, you know that'm from
Florida.
You know that right Water is 80degrees there, god, you know
that right Hell, god, all thisstuff.

(01:04:58):
And he already knew that.
I mean he created the water andeverything.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Yes sir.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
He led to another and they broke me.
They laid me down, a wave brokeover me so I was totally
drenched.
And then they lifted me up andand he's I.
I get up and I'm seeing thewhole group up there on the on
the hill, um, uh, away from,away from the water, uh, the

(01:05:25):
waves breaking and stuff, andthey're all jumping up and down,
hooping, hollering.
But I got baptized.
Not only did I repent, but Ihad gotten baptized.
And then I turned to the twoguys that were with me, omar and
Randy, and I said I didn'trealize that Omar was the pastor
.
He was the head of the group.
All I knew was that he was aminister.
And then I realized later thathe was the pastor and he was

(01:05:49):
baptizing me.
And he baptized me, you know,in the name of the Father, the
Son and the Holy Spirit.
And he baptized me, you know,in the name of the Father, son
and the Holy Spirit.
And so one thing led to another.
When I came up, there wassomething going on in my belly.
I didn't know what it was, butthe only way I can describe it
it's like the washing machineaction of the Holy Spirit.
He was cleansing me.
He was getting more than I hadhad hurt him and lied and

(01:06:09):
everything.
And so when, instead of buyingcigarettes when I go into any
store, I would buy thoselicorice nibs, black licorice,

(01:06:31):
but very, but a lot of blacklicorice, not red licorice.
I didn't care for that, thatmuch, I didn't know it at the
time.
There's something in blacklicorice, some kind of anise or
something, that removes thenicotine from your system.
I didn't know I was gettingcleansed, but I was getting
cleansed.
I didn't know it at the timeand besides, I didn't think it

(01:06:51):
was so bad to smoke.
I wasn't a bad guy, and so Iwent from this, I went from this
and I'll fast forward now, 10years to this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Oh, hey, okay.
You notice the hair yeah, I wasjust gonna say you know, as a
guy that's had thinning hairsince I was in my 20s, my friend
, you make me jealous with allthese hair photos and you still
got more hair than me now, yeah,but uh, uh, that was.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
That was when I came back from a trip to new york.
I had a full beard too, all theway down.
You know, it was a perfectbasketball with chin hair.
And I went home to be with mybrother's wedding and he got
married a little bit before me,a few years.
And my mom said when I got offthe plane she looked at me oh

(01:07:54):
get away from me with that thing, me and all my beard and
everything.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
I had a handlebar mustache you kind of looked like
Peter Frampton.
Now that I think about it, youhad a little Peter Frampton
going on.
Yeah, exactly how funny.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
And I had just gotten back from New York, not just
maybe two weeks or three weeksor a month before, whenever it
was.
This is when we got married,august 20th 1974.
So I got saved on September17th 1973.
Thirteen months later I gotmarried to Gail.
We met at a Baptist churchFriday night singles group and

(01:08:34):
we met in a Presbyterian churchfellowship hall during
volleyball.
And what God did at that timewas he said she's handicapped,
she can't walk very straight.
She has a CP cerebral palsyfrom birth and so she doesn't
walk very level.
She has a little difficult timewith balance.
So when I saw her, god wentlike this, with her heart, with

(01:08:58):
her chest, and opened up herheart and said see how her heart
is trying to hit that ball.
He says I'm going to turn herheart toward you.
And I said nah, I'm hearingthings.
You know that isn't right, itdoesn't make any sense.
And she looked very sweet andvery kind.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
You know kind.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
You know, yeah, beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Yeah, and so she was my doll.
She was 11 years younger than Iam, and so we've been together
from August 20th 1973 to thepresent 41 years.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
You know what's funny , Bob is I'm 11 years older than
my wife too.
That's funny, and I was justthinking about when you showed
me the picture of gail.
I was thinking about my wife.
It's yeah anyway, but that'sfunny.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
One more thing we got in common there I don't know
how that worked, but I've met alot of people that guys are
older than their wife by 10 or11 or 12 years or something, and
uh.
So since then I've been able topick up my bootstraps.
I made all my amends to all thedope dealers that I was dealing
with that I owed dope money to.
I flushed the dope, I got ridof all the dope, all the coke

(01:10:08):
and everything else.
I got rid of all the dope and Iwent to the dope dealers and
just gave them money as I hadearned it.
I said, okay, okay, I got thismuch dope from you.
How much do I owe you?
They said 500 or a thousand ortwo thousand, whatever it was,
and I just gave them the money.
I says, here is it okay?
Well, we got some new stuff andtry it out and nope, not
interested, don't want any.

(01:10:28):
And they kept coming around tomy job no, I'm sure they did
yeah I was working and living ina house I was remodeling and I
was sanding the floors.
I had all this dust on me fromthe sanding the floors.
There's an old sander, very,very heavy, doing rooping.
And I'd say, well, thebrother's from the brother's
house, and they said, oh, youmean like a halfway house?

(01:10:50):
I said no, it's a hallway house, for the Lord, it's not a
halfway house.
It was going all the way.
And so we did work and it wasamazing how that business worked
.
I didn't have any licenses andwe would all work and sometimes
God would give me carpenters andplumbers and painters and then

(01:11:11):
all of a sudden I would getcarpentry jobs and painting jobs
and plumbing jobs and theseguys would tell you, I can do
that.
So they'd go in and fix it andI'd get a little bit off the top
and they'd get the rest.
And I had a rule that you don'tbuy cigarettes, you don't buy
booze, or else you're out.
Just that simple.
And some of the guys stayed onand they came to the lord henry

(01:11:34):
was with me in brother gruber'shouse and he had bright red hair
, bright, bright red hair, andhe had it all the way past his
past, his cheeks, past his buttand, uh, he always wore his
talking cap and and it wasalways the lump back in here and
we wondered, man, he's got aweird shaped head.
But actually it was a one-tierone and he became the drummer at

(01:11:57):
the Christian house.
He came to the Lord and therewas another guy that was a
really good cook, so he stayedat the house all day long,
answered the phone and of coursewe didn't have cell phones at
that time in the early seventiesand he would make food and we'd
come in at dinnertime and havedinner.
We'd chow down, get showered,get cleaned up and go to sleep
and do it all again the next day.

(01:12:17):
One thing led to another and wedid our handyman business for
about 10 years, and so now I'mgoing to fast forward.
This is a picture of my WestCoast family.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Let me get it out of here, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
And this is your kids .

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
My kids, my daughters .
I have three girls in thispicture I actually had four, but
she wasn't available and then Ihave a fifth one that is
adopted, and so maybe that's alittle better.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
West Coast family at one of our gatherings.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
What a blessing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
And they would not even speak to me in my old style
.
I mean, they wouldn't even talkto me.
And so then I had this visionof cutting why it was a drought
that time, and I had a vision ofcutting down the firewood in
the los padres dam reservoir.
Los padres dam, not the damnreservoir, but the reservoir

(01:13:27):
that's a dam yeah, okay hold up.
So I had to get various peopleto recognize me or recommend me.
So this one here is from JosephD Osmond from Friends Outside.
Friends Outside is a group thatthey visit inmates and they're
friends outside.
They're not necessarilyrelatives, they're just

(01:13:48):
strangers like myself, and theygo in and visit Billy or Johnny
or Mary or Joey or whoever it is.
And they go in and visit andthey call friends outside.
So here's a letter.
This is when I was KZEN on theradio announcer on the radio
program.
The enclosed form is one whichis used for groups who propose
to conduct some sort of activitywithin the jail facilities.

(01:14:09):
We need people with yourdetermination and dedication and
I feel that you can be of greathelp in the transition of these
men to successful lives in thecommunity.
So this was the letter fromFriends Outside and this was one
of the guys that I was directlyworking with.
And this is Friends Outside.
Director from Marceau Baranek.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Well, and it's funny too.
It's funny that you keep kindof being on the same page with
me here, bob, because I keepthinking of things I want to ask
you and then you kind of bringit up.
But, um, yeah, well, it'sbecause I was just thinking
about it.
You know, you mentioned earlieryou were talking about how you
had the record for the most bagsloaded on the airplane and the

(01:14:51):
story and all that, and the workethic and being a perfectionist
and all that.
And I one of the things yousaid to me personally that's
really stuck with me, that Ithink is just such a beautiful
way to put it is is you avoideda 20-year prison sentence but
you got blessed with god'seternal life sentence, right,
which I love it the way you saythat's your phrase, not mine,

(01:15:11):
but incredible way to put itpossible.
Truth's your phrase, not mine,but it's a credible way to put
it Possible truth.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
I got letters and all kinds of things, but this is
one letter that I'm really proudof.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
One referral he came to our Baptist church and you
ever seen Green Acres?

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Remember, eb.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
Yeah, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Here's Eb.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
Hey, okay, yeah, tom.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
Lester, tom Lester and.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
And he signed Farm.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Livin's the life for me.
Bob, now you got the theme songstuck in my head, so I said
Farm Livin's the life for me.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
And so this is Tom Eb Lester.
This is where he was readingthe story to Oliver Douglas, and
there's the pig.
What's his name?
Arnold or Emerald?

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
The pig, yeah, Arnold .

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Arnold, yeah, Arnold, that's Eb.
And then another famous guy, ohthen another famous guy was I
went from drugs to jewelry.
So there's my, there's me.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Oh, that's right.
So now?
So you wrote a book on yourlife story too, right?
Or is that in the works?

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
This is in the works.
That's exactly what we'relooking at here, things that
will go in the book at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
You kind of look like a young Donald Trump there.
To be honest with you, bob,yeah, kind of do.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
I Stop there to be honest with you, bob.
Yeah, kind of do.
I'm blessed Pulling GilesStreet.
Sunday, july 17th, 10.50 am,spaghetti dinner.
After the service forreservations called and donation
was $3.50.
So I make really really, reallygood spaghetti and nobody has
died, and I do 36-hour spaghettisauce and so I would give my

(01:16:56):
testimony, I'd give my story andthen I would feed them.
So that's that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Well, you know, I'm half Italian.
Bob, I need the recipe from you.
I've got to get the recipe.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
You'd have to watch me make that.
I can't remember, I just know Idump everything in.
That isn't bad.
So that's that one.
And then another famous personthere was this Jeffrey Latch,
okay, and he's an Americanartist.
So it says Dear Robert, thankyou for sending Cupid to help

(01:17:27):
celebrate your first anniversaryfor Gail.
She's as delightful as theenclosed photo will show, with
number 83.
It's a perfect shot.
Best regard, jeffrey Latt.
So here's a letter from theCupid and here's Cupid showing
up with the Gail, with with,where he shot into her heart.
And that was our first year.

(01:17:49):
That was our first yearanniversary.
I don't know if you can seethat.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
And you've been married for 50 years now.
Is that right?
40, 41 years years 41 years anduh.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
So what I did september 17th?
Um, I got really, really,really wasted and robbed a few
7-elevens well, that was, yeah,that's how you celebrated 51
years.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
Sober, he's like let's just bring it back for old
times.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
Not really.
There's a number of otherletters that I got here and only
in the interest of time I won'tread them all.
Just buy my books and tapes soyou can see them.
There was one letter here thatI thought was really interesting
.
In the Municipal County Courtof Monterey, carmel Judicial

(01:18:35):
District, county of Monterey,state of California, the people
of the State of California voteversus Charles Floyd Choate and
he's a criminal that I know fromthe streets.
Right, and although he didn'trecognize me when I was sitting
in the jury and it turned outthat I became the jury foreman
and the state of California wasnot after me for doing anything

(01:18:58):
bad, they were after me to siton the jury trial One of my good
things that I've done, you knowand able to sit on a jury trial
.
And then they wanted to give methe foreman.
But I thought it was reallycool to become from crime in the
streets and drugs to being onthe jury trial.

(01:19:20):
And then this one here is fromDiamond Realty.
I'll tell you this one.
I'll read this letter.
This is from July 31st 1977.
To no may concern, I'm arealtor neighbor of Bob Gagliano
.
I have offices across thestreet from Bob's home Prior to
our real estate careers.
Some of my associates and Iwere policemen on the peninsula,
on Monterey Peninsula.
I feel it's because of ourexperience as patrolmen that we

(01:19:44):
can truly recognize thetremendous service Bob has
offered the community.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
Few people are as sincere about helping others as
Bob Gagliano and in my opinion,this program is as valuable to
the CUNY as any I've seen andI'm talking about the Brothers

(01:20:10):
House Ministry and the fact thatI was going to take firewood
out of Los Padres Dam and pullit out with chemicals from the
military, which I havepermission to do.
Well, but that's what I meanttoo.
That's what I was trying totouch on earlier too, bob, is
that it's such a beautiful thingto me, this work ethic was
always inside of you, but youdidn't have a place that you
knew where you could put it, andit feels like once you got
saved, once you got blessed tobe exonerated, to be free to
have this new opportunity atlife, you just dove in with both

(01:20:31):
feet and you've been there eversince, and continue to be so,
to put that work effort intohelping people however you can.
That's right.
I mean, that's what it soundslike.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
That's exactly what it is.
I just, I just all I did waschange trade products yeah,
drugs and alcohol and booze.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
You upgraded.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
Yeah, I have an upgrade.
And then I got another letterfrom the Monterey Peninsula
Unified School District that Ibecame a big brother to one of
their med deans who was 16 atthe time.
Now this one here is reallyinteresting.
This is from William Putnam,the owner of Freewheeling Cycles

(01:21:11):
.
Okay, now it says here I havebeen acquainted with Mr Robert
Cagliano, 348 Colb Street,monterey, since October 76.
So this is 77, about four monthsfrom October to February.
Five months, whatever.
I'm personally knowledgeable ofthe charitable work he is doing
with the Christian House andbelieve he is producing

(01:21:34):
excellent results againsttremendous odds.
His personality and persuasionsare a tremendous asset to him
in these undertakings.
He heads an organization whichengages in a variety of
undertaking of a diversifiednature.
This organization deals in wood, wood products, gardening,

(01:21:56):
nature.
This organization deals in wood, wood products, gardening in
short, any handyman task you canfind.
Several jobs have beenperformed for me.
Each has been well planned andprofessionally executed.
I have been delighted with theresults.
Based on my experience withknowledge of Mr Gagliano, I
unhesitatingly recommend him asan honest, sincere Christian,

(01:22:17):
hardworking man with with, whomerits trust and confidence.
Now, this was just a regularbusinessman, right.
But it also happened to be.
He had a daughter named Ramona,and I was dating Ramona.
I mean he knew me from fromcoming into the shop and you
know, fixing, getting bicyclesfor the guys that were selling.

(01:22:39):
This one here is from theAssembly of God, the pastor at
the time, j Lee Milton.
Pastor Milton, he passed awaysince then, but here's his
letter from the Assembly of GodJ Lee Milton.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
How did it make you feel?
I mean, I know I would assumeanyway, and I know for myself
personally the connection thatI'm grateful to have with God.
That's what matters to me themost.
But it had to make you feel athome too to get all this
recognition from all theseindividuals for the good that

(01:23:16):
you're doing, that you neverreally got from your family
growing up.
What, what was it like tofinally get kind of recognized
in that way?

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
well, yeah, uh, you know savannah, it's like, uh,
there's no comparison.
I mean, just again, just again,I'm thinking what would holy
God want me to do?
This is when I was still at atremendous.
I was anew by the resurrectionof the Lord and then, coming
into my life, my guilt had splitimmediately.
My smoking stayed on for aboutfive or six weeks.

(01:23:50):
And talk about the blacklicorice for a moment.
The anise or the licoriceingredients got rid of my
caffeine.
What do you call it?

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
Your cravings of the nicotine.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
The nicotine.
Yeah, it got rid of thenicotine and that's how I quit.
Smoking Went from five or sixpacks of cigarettes to 14 bags a
day of black licorice and I gotrid of it.
I put down my cigarettes aboutsix weeks later.
And this is from anotherbusinessman from Seaside
Mortuary, the owner of MichaelSonnenberg.

(01:24:24):
The owner of Seaside Mortuaryand Mike Sonnenberg Oops, I
can't see Mike SonnenbergSenator down there and this is
from American Auto Rental.
I had really really foul creditand I started my credit way
back then, but I've onlyrecently only the last 20 years

(01:24:45):
or so really became a creditmakeover specialist.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
Well, yeah, not to get off to, but yeah, I mean
because I wanted and and I knowthe zoom's gonna cut us off
pretty soon because I wanted totalk a bit about what you're
doing now and some of the thingsyou've done the last 20 years
too, because obviously you'vebeen extremely successful in
real estate as a broker and Ithink you own your brokerage
right.
Um, so a lot of a lot of thingsthere.
But on the credit side ofthings, talk to me a little bit

(01:25:10):
about what you've done forpeople there and for yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
My best FICO raise FICO score.
I increased his FICO score by142 points in 90 days and it
cost him, it cost me $265, hardcost, but then I charged him
$295.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
You made 30 bucks.
You made less dollars than heincreased in points.
That's a pretty good deal forhim, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
Oh, exactly, but I don't.
Normally, when I'm telling realestate if they don't have good
credit, I help them repair theircredit first, or do a credit
makeover what I call a makeover,just like a cosmetic makeover
and I would help them heal theircredit and then I would sell
them the house.
So my commitment, my goal, wasto sell them the house and get

(01:26:00):
it closed, and my joy was inreceiving that commission check
was not only the result of agood sale, but also I helped him
get out of his credit situation.
I showed him how money works.
I have one video online.
It's called Bob's Savings Plan.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
Savings S-A-V-I-N-G-S .

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
We'll put a link.
When this goes on YouTube,we'll put a link to that in the
description, so anybody thatwants to check that out, you can
see the link.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:31):
Yeah, if you can do that, that would be great.
Yeah, if you can do that, thatwould be great, but anyway.
So I made their credit over andthen I would sell them a house
and getting that payment waslike holy mackerel.
Yeah, look at this, it comesfrom a broken home and divorced
parents and drugs and alcoholand crime and everything.
And now it's like 51 yearslater and I'm really blessed.

(01:26:56):
God has really guided me to theright clients to buy the right
house, the right timetable, at aprice that they could afford,
without, you know, choking themand taking beans off the table.
I have a lot more letters here.
I have all in all, about 15 or17 letters, which really helped

(01:27:16):
my self-concept because I neversaw myself that good.
It just didn't relate to me.
A couple of letters fromBuilding and Construction Trades
Council because I was using theFort Ord, the Army personnel
and the Gamma Goats to bring thefirewood out of the Los Padres

(01:27:36):
Dam.
Here's another one from ElsaSal High School where I helped
them with troubled youth.
And then I have just in closingwell, I have a couple of
letters from prisoners, but youdon't from inmates, you don't
normally get that from prisoners.
this is from steve abacrame thisis from the program that you

(01:27:59):
were running with kind of doingoutreach to them, trying yeah,
and I have a couple letters fromthem and then in in closing,
here I'm just going to show youone of the miracles that we had.
So this is me, um.
Well, this is, um, my, my twoclients that were, he bought

(01:28:20):
that truck and they had reallyreally foul credit and the girl
that she was marrying, um, hadreally really good credit, but
they weren't married yet andback in those days bank lenders
would not want, they would notlike, an unmarried couple.
And so this is them gettinginto their trunk and the big red
.
It was a $45,000 full-sizepickup with duallys and

(01:28:45):
everything.
And so this is them gettinginto their truck.
I picked them up at their homeand then this one shows them.
I'd love to take this pictureout, if I can.
Let me see if I can get this.
So this is the one that afterthey were married, they were
getting back into the big red.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
And then this one.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
Here it's got this little circle there right.
Look at that it's the husbandand the wife, and the Lord is
with them, you know, blessingthem in their marriage, the orb.
And it was amazing to me howthat people look at them.
How did you do that?
I didn't do it, I had nothingto do with it at all.
I did was take the picture andthey they, the Lord is with them
and bless their marriagerelationship, and so that's.

(01:29:35):
That's kind of one of themiracles that I had seen in my
life, many, many miracles allalong the way.
Here I am speaking opposite, inFull Gospel Businessmen's
Fellowship.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
That's the one that we've been talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Yeah, from crime to Christ.
Was he too far gone, bad too?
Uh, or too burned out?
And um, there's one where I was.
I was there with look like ahuman for a change, and and
that's what their entireinterpretation.
When I saw the lord going upthrough the clouds, for me, um
and so.

(01:30:12):
And then I've written it outmultiple times.
I've written it out and then Iprinted it out, typed it out, my
testimony on what I just sharedwith you and visions, and I
mean I've experienced a lot ofGod's blessings over the years.
I just, I just cannot thank theLord enough for keeping me and

(01:30:38):
saving me 41 years married tothe same woman, 51 years serving
the same God, and in and out ofjail and so on and so forth.
And lastly, I just want to saythat now we have five girls all
together, but this was thepicture where three of them and

(01:30:59):
then this was a prayer meetingthat they were having that this
gentleman over here, thisgentleman right here, he was not
a believer but he would run allthese prayer meetings and he'd
be speaking in tongues andeverything, but he wasn't a
believer and he got saved.
He gave his heart to the Lordin that particular meeting and
he'd be speaking in tongues andeverything.
But he wasn't a believer and hegot saved.
He gave his heart to the Lordin that particular meeting.
That's one of the churches thatI was at Oak Park Church in

(01:31:21):
Seaside.
Three of my five girls rightthere.
Anyway, I have a lot more tosay.

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
No, I know it's funny because we've been going for an
hour and a half and I feel likeI've got a bunch more too, but
I don't know.
Hour and a half in it, I feellike I've got a bunch more too,
but I don't know.
Well, I'll just I'll tell youthis too, bob the day we met
when we first started talking, Iwas it was a good day, but I

(01:31:46):
was real busy, hectic day andyou called me and we were
talking about a property andjust your energy and the spirit
within you.
I just enjoy talking.
I think we talked like threehours that first day.
I kept calling you back and youkept calling me.
You put me in such a great moodtalking with you.
I have the feeling that youhave that impact on pretty much
everybody you come in contactwith.
One more nice story about yourkindness and just your spirit.

(01:32:11):
A few weeks later, I'm drivingdown for my anniversary with my
wife and you just happened tocall and you burst out into song
, started singing to us happyanniversary.
I don't know if you rememberdoing that, but it was the
highlight of.
My wife just said that guy's sogreat.
You know she loves you too, andit was kind of it just put us
in a great mood for the sevenhour drive we were about to do,

(01:32:33):
and you're just that kind of guyand so it's.
It's an honor to know you andit's.
I'm really sincerely gratefulthat you shared your testimony
and your story with me and andwith everybody that listens to
this.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
Thank you for the interview also, and, and and I
really appreciate you, stefan,and you may not trust me after
today, but oh, well, no, no,well, and I guess I'll just
close with this with a questionon this.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
so, um, if it's not already, obviously, you know
just anybody that's listeningthat maybe is struggling with
whatever they're struggling with, and maybe there's a 27 year
old out there that's that feelslike they don't have a place
where they belong and they don'tknow how to do that.
Maybe that's facilitatingitself, however, it is.
What would you say to the youngpeople out there, or anybody
that's battling that?

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
Well, forgiveness is a tremendous thing.
And there was a scripture thatI read yesterday yesterday being
the 7th, it wasn't really ascripture but just a story, and
let me bring that up If I couldjust have a minute to share that
, is that okay?
Yes, sir, okay.
So I read five Psalms and oneproverb every day.

(01:33:49):
I read it to my roommate Paul,it to my roommate Paul, and so
reading Psalm 7, and then add 30, 37, then add 30, 67, and then
97, and 127.
So this was yesterday's reading.
It says delight yourself alsoin the Lord and he shall give

(01:34:10):
you the desires of your heart.
So, to everybody listening, ifyou have a desire in your heart,
just delight yourself in theLord and he will give you the
desires of a heart.
And he's given me a lot ofthings that I had even no
control over.
I didn't even know what washappening.
But in the Word of Wealth andit's called Psalm 37, it's
called Heart Leb In Strong'sConcordance 3820, heart,

(01:34:33):
intellect, awareness, mind,inner person, inner feelings,
deepest thoughts, inner self.
As in English, the Hebrewconcept of heart encompasses
both the physical organ 2 Kings,9.24, and the person's inner
yearnings.
Psalm 37.4, which we just read,perhaps the noblest occurrence
of Leib is Deuteronomy 6.5,commanding Israel to love the

(01:34:54):
Lord with all your heart.
Jesus laid great emphasis onthe sentence See Mark 11.29 and
30 in Jeremiah 17.9.
It states that the human heartcan be the most deceitful thing
in the world, but in verse 10,it shows that the Lord is still
able to sort out and analyzewhat lies within the heart.

(01:35:17):
Connect your way to the Lordand trust also in him, and he
shall bring it to pass.
Now there's another verse thatsays that he has your hairs on
your head numbered.
So, stephan, I'm thinking well,maybe he has my hairs on my
head numbered and maybe he hasyour head on your head numbered.
Well, that's not a very bigdeal, it's just two of us.
But then I'm thinking well, howmany hairs do I have on my head

(01:35:39):
and how many?
hairs do you have on your headwhat 10,000, 20,000?

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
You've got a lot more than me, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:46):
But they're just not necessarily.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
I'm teasing, but yes sir, yes, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
Right there.
And then I'm thinking, well,wait a minute.
There's like six or sevenbillion people on the earth and
he has all their hairs numbered.
And I'm thinking, oh wow, holymiracle.
And then it says, out of theabundance of the heart, the
mouth speaks and he is in touchwith all of our hearts, he knows
all of our hearts.
Seven billion people Now.

(01:36:12):
To me that's a huge, mighty God.
So, whatever your problem is,he's already experienced it.
You've already been deliveredfrom it.
You just don't know it yet.
All you've got to do is accepthim.
It's very simple.
I mean, I can give you thethree-hour dog and pony show,
buy my books and tapes and allthat kind of stuff, or buy my
video here that we're doing.

(01:36:32):
It's been an incredible,incredible journey for me.
I was on my deathbed a couple ofdifferent times.
I was on the wrong end of apiece a couple of different
times and God delivered me fromall that trash.
I mean drugs, alcohol, crime,everything I mean.
Many times I was on the wrongend of a piece and my life was

(01:36:53):
threatened and nothing.
It doesn't mean anything.
My life is threatened.
So what?
You know?
I'm still here.
I had multiple stab wounds inmy ribs 252 stitches, and I was
breathing out of my lungs, outof my back.
I mean, my lungs are rightthere.
I had a punctured lung.
I was breathing out of my backand squirting blood all over the

(01:37:15):
place.
Body's under tremendouspressure, but just a whip with a
gun, butt of a .38, you know.
On and on Motorcycle wreck thatalmost killed me, you know.
And just go on and on and on.
All the stuff I've been throughand yet I'm still here.

Speaker 1 (01:37:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:29):
And I don't like some of that stuff.
I'm very definitely not proudof that stuff.
That's what God did.
He's brought me through it.
He doesn't say he'll take itaway from you.
He says he'll bring you throughit.
He'll bring you through it.
If anybody that's listeningthat wants to talk to me or
Stefan or whatever, he has myphone number and my email and

(01:37:52):
I'm listed in the phone book.
I got nothing to hide andnobody to hide it from, and I'm
not on the run.
I don't worry about my back.
God has my back.

Speaker 1 (01:38:01):
Psalm 139,.

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
If you read it in six verses at a time 6, 12, 18, and
24, there's four times hementioned it.
The sum of it all is that Godhas your back.
From verses 1 to 6, god hasyour back.
Then from 7 to 12, God has yourback.
And then from 13 to 19, god hasyour back.
And then from 19 to 24, god hasyour back From 139.

(01:38:23):
And it's tremendous, tremendouspower.
When I read that at first, I hada very hard time because my
self-concept was so bad BecauseI knew all the stuff that I had
done wrong.
Because my self-concept was sobad because I knew all the stuff
that I had done wrong, eitherthat I knew or that I remembered
, or that the police were afterme for, or that the police
didn't.
They didn't know who was doingit, but it was me doing it and

(01:38:45):
it was to be delivered from allthat stuff.
I mean, if you want to staywhere you're at, god bless you
stay.
But this is way, way, waybetter.
You know making money andeverything else.
That's nothing compared to whathe has for you, that laid up
for you.
He says in Ephesians that hecan do exceedingly, abundantly
more than you're able to ask orthink the things that God has

(01:39:08):
brought me through is a versethat says he'll bring you before
priests and kings.
So in 1994, I was in the HiltonHotel down in San Francisco and
they were having Full GospelBusinessmen and Businessmen's
Fellowship.
They had a name change at thattime but Full Gospel Businessmen
was having a regional meetingand there was people from 180

(01:39:30):
countries, the kings and thepresidents and all the leaders
of all these countries and it'skind of like the Black Panther
where he comes from, and there'scountries that the word says
he'll bring me before kings andpriests.
So I said how the heck is Godgoing to bring me before kings
and priests?
Well, this guy with anotherhead of hair similar to mine

(01:39:52):
tapped on my shoulder.
I was up front there on thestage and just weeping and
praising God and just thankingGod for all he had done at that
time.
This was in 1994.
And this guy comes up to me andhe looked familiar but I
couldn't place him.
But it turned out to be SteveShakarian, the assistant vice

(01:40:14):
president to Dima Shikarian,who's the author.
He started Full GospelBusinessmen in 1952 in Clifton's
cafeteria.

Speaker 1 (01:40:24):
And Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:40:25):
Shikarian, his son, saying would you please?
My father had a stroke.
Would you please drive himaround tonight in his wheelchair
.
So I said OK, but I'm leavingtomorrow.
So as a matter of fact, I'mleaving tonight after the
meeting, but I can ride himaround.
I got no place to go.
I'm in no rush to get home.
So he says okay.

(01:40:45):
And then Dimas said to me okay,you come with me, Drive me
around, Drive me around thehotel here.
You know the way around thehotel.
I said, yeah, it's not a bigdeal.
He took me to all the heads ofall the countries that were
there in that room that nightand they were in at that time
180 different countries, and allthe presidents, all the

(01:41:08):
representatives from all thosecountries were in these meetings
and they were all wanting tomeet Demas.
He wrote the book called theHappiest People on Earth of
business people all around theworld that are a part of Full
Gospel Businessmen the HappiestPeople on Earth by Demas
Shakerian.
And he said to me okay, now Iwant you to pick me up at 6.30

(01:41:29):
tomorrow morning or 6 o'clocktomorrow morning.
I said, well, sir, I'm notgoing to be here, I'm leaving
tonight.
He said, well, sir, I'm notgoing to be here, I'm leaving
tonight.
He says, what do you mean?
I said, well, I don't have aroom, I can't afford to stay, I
have to get back and do mybusiness.
I'm a handyman.
He said, no, no, no, no, no,you drive around, Cover your
room and your food andeverything.
I said, sir, I don't even haveany clothes with me.

(01:41:51):
Well, we'll buy you someclothes.
So they took me downstairs tothe, to the, to the clothes shop
, yeah, and they paid for a pairof slacks and three shirts and
underwear and talks.
You know, they just, and theypaid for the whole thing from
from Thursday night, all dayFriday, all day Saturday and all
day Sunday.
And I had the experience ofbeing at all those meetings as

(01:42:12):
Demas' chauffeur in hiswheelchair, and it was-.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
Wait a minute here, Bob, Because that was one of the
things and it's going to cut usoff any minute here.
This is one of the things Iwanted to ask you, but is this
how you got into real estateoriginally?

Speaker 2 (01:42:25):
It definitely helped me in business.
I'm good with numbers.
So many people told me that I'dbe good as a realtor.
But I said no, no, no, and Ihad a fear of taking tests.
I was definitely afraid oftaking tests and it took me
seven times to take the test andfail.
And then there's a verse thatsays in Proverbs that he picks

(01:42:50):
himself up the eighth time.
That says to pass theCalifornia real estate test.
That you, you, you.
For 15 months I was trying totake the California real estate
test and then finally, on the17th or 18th month, I took it
and I finally passed.
It's either you pass or fail.
You either right or you'rewrong.
My pastor, pastor Chris McMinn,gave me at the time.

(01:43:14):
He says he knew that I wasgoing to take eight times to
pass that test.
He knew it and he made up aflyer.
You know you make up thoselittle flyers of congratulations
.
He made up a flyerCongratulations, bob, for taking
the California real estate testand passing it on the eighth
time.

Speaker 1 (01:43:33):
Yeah, the eighth time's the charm.
Yeah, yeah, well, and you'veowned a brokerage here in
Northern California.
For what then?
I guess about 30 years, then,is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:43:45):
Yeah, something like that.
But yeah, 29 to 30 years.
I didn't get to be a brokerright away, but I had to be a
realtor first and then I becamewith the XP and they
automatically categorized me asa broker.
That's the way they work, andso that's what I've done and

(01:44:09):
I've been a broker well,equivalent broker and a broker
well, equivalent broker.
Um, and I have uh, I have uh 11teams in eight states, 12 teams
in eight states.
I lose count.
Uh, I'm nationwide and and Ihave all these teams and I help
them close, make a real estatetransaction, how to present the
offer and everything else, andthen they, they uh get paid, and

(01:44:32):
when get paid, I get paid alittle bit.
Just, you know from what they?
I don't take anything out of.
The company pays me out of thecompany side of the commission,
not out of the real estate, outof the agent side An 80% split,
an 80-20 split the only companyon the planet that has that and

(01:44:53):
you don't start off at 40% or50% like some companies, but
they start you off right at 80%,right away.
And so I'm very blessed to bewith them.
I've been with them about Idon't know, eight or 10 years or
something like that, and theythrow you out there and they
just expect you to do it.
And I'm self-taught in a lot ofareas, but I learned how to

(01:45:18):
repair credit.
Of course.
I made my own over from 525, Igo score to 756.
I'm at right now.
My wife and I race to 800 everymonth.
Tom Lester again.

Speaker 1 (01:45:34):
My guy, yeah, and there.
I am, I'm going to watch thatshow tonight.
Bob, you got me craving GreenAcres.

Speaker 2 (01:45:41):
Now it's a great show , really funny.
Green Acres, beverly,hillbillies.
I.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
Dream of Jeannie was another one I used to like,
absolutely definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
That's funny, these are all really good, wholesome.
I Dream of Jeannie was anotherone I used to like I Dream of
Jeannie.
Yes, definitely, Absolutelydefinitely.
That's funny.
These are all really good,wholesome family shows.
They have really good FatherKnows Best, really good
teachings.

Speaker 1 (01:46:04):
There's the beautiful family.
That's really the result,because that's the result, you
know, one of the many results ofthe blessing that you got to be
free and to be saved is now, 50years later.
You created this beautiful life, this beautiful family, and
you've touched the lives of somany other people.

Speaker 2 (01:46:22):
I just showed up, stood up and shut up and God did
the rest.
Showed up and stood up and hedid it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:31):
I didn't really do any of it.
Thank you again, bob.
And someone wanted to reach outto you on real estate or on the
book that you're writing, orany of that.
Is the email the best way?

Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
I'm open to whatever they got.
Whatever God has, I'm open toit.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
Yes, sir.
Well, thank you, my friend,again, for taking the time to
share it with us.
Thank you, thank you.

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