December 29, 2021 • 43 mins
In this Season 1 bonus episode, we discuss new information about potential suspects provided by our listeners and the producer of another true-crime podcast. You’ll hear from Final Days on Earth host and producer Claire St. Amant. We also share an interview with a woman who escaped an abduction attempt in the same neighborhood and around the same time Sarah Kashka vanished. As we discuss other fascinating tidbits, you’ll get a look ahead to Season 2 of “still…”
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Episode Transcript
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(00:12):
In our first season of Still,we explored a period of time in Fort
Worth, Texas between nineteen eighty threeand nineteen eighty six, when more than
twenty women vanished and were later foundmurdered. Some were shot, some were
strangled, some were bludgeoned to death. Most had been sexually assaulted, and
(00:34):
sadly, few of their cases haveever been solved. Our investigation of this
time period led us to focus onseven specific cold cases, the rapes and
murders of Mary Till, Sandra Bush, Katherine Davis, Cindy Heller, Angela
Ewart, Sarah Kashka, and TerryMcAdams. Through our research of known killers
(00:59):
at the time, we homed inon a likely culprit. Curtis Don Brown,
was already serving a life sentence.He had raped and murdered three women.
He died in a Texas prison inearly twenty twenty one before we could
interview him. Now, we wantto step back and discuss what listeners have
(01:21):
shared with us about their theories andmemories of that time of terror. In
this bonus episode, we'll also besharing unreleased tidbits of information, follow up
interviews, and a Q and adiscussion with a special guest from the pages
(01:52):
of the reporter's notebook. This isStill. I'm your host Gary Anderson.
(02:38):
Hello everyone, and welcome to ourbonus episode of Still season one. At
the end of the season. Earlierthis year, we asked listeners to share
with us their thoughts about our story. Were there other killers out there we
should have considered, is there anyevidence we missed? What cases should we
tackle next? And did you guysdeliver? We want to begin with a
(03:13):
discussion of potential suspects suggested by ourlisteners. While a number of names were
brought to our attention, four inparticular piqued our interest. The first comes
courtesy of a special guest, fellowjournalist and podcaster, Claire Santamal. Claire
met with us recently to discuss theoriesof our cases. I'm going to play
(03:36):
some of that conversation for you.I wanted to start out with tell us
a little bit about you, tellus a little bit about your show,
and just expound on that. Thanksso much for having me, Gary.
It's fun to be here in reallife. I don't think we get to
do that in the podcast world thatmuch, so it's nice to be sitting
(03:58):
across the table from here chatting.I've been in the Dallas area for about
ten years now, and you know, really enjoy crime reporting. That's where
I've found my place. I doit primarily for CBS News. I'm a
development producer for the show forty eightHours, which airs on Saturday nights on
(04:21):
CBS, and then I also dosome crime I've done some crime stories for
sixty Minutes and the morning and eveningshows as well, so pretty much all
crime all the time. But Ifound a new love of podcast. And
you know, at first, Iwas just a listener for many years.
(04:42):
And then whenever I was approached about, you know, did I want to
host my own podcast? Did Isee myself in that space? You know,
it was it was a gradual evolution, you know, one of those
things where I was like, well, I really enjoy this as a consumer,
you know, but I hadn't seenmyself as someone who would be creating
that content, um. And ittook me a little while to warm up
(05:02):
to the idea. But once Idid, you know, I've really enjoyed
it and see it as as sucha valuable medium. Um. And So
my first show was called Final Dayson Earth and the first season came out
in April twenty twenty one, andit's on the life and death of Damien
Hurd, who was a college wrestlerwho grew up not too far from where
(05:28):
we are now in the Fort Wortharea in Texas. But he got a
college scholarship to Western Colorado University inGunnison, and that, unfortunately, is
where his life ended. And somy story goes to the final days of
his life and tries to find answersfor um, you know, how how
he ended up dead at the ageof twenty and and many people have raised,
(05:54):
you know, questions about about thatinvestigation and about the ruling in the
case, which was suicide but hasbeen heavily disputed by his family. So
my podcast ended up being thirteen episodes, and we look at that case inside
and out, backwards and forwards andevery way in between. If you haven't
(06:15):
listened to Final Days on Earth,find it and add it to your playlist
immediately. You won't be disappointed.We're going to discuss some details of Claire's
podcast with her, but first wewanted to dive right into our cases,
particularly since Claire herself offered up apotential suspect that we found intriguing. This
is Karen talking. I wanted toask you, Claire. You had mentioned
(06:40):
a potential suspect for our cases,William Reese, and so I wanted to
ask you to just tell us whatyou know about him and kind of why
you think that he would be aviable suspect or our cases. Yeah.
Absolutely, So, as I waslistening to your episodes and you're going through
the emo of the killer, andyou know, like you say in your
(07:03):
podcast, it could be one killer, it could be multiple killers, but
there's a lot of similarities in youknow, the way the crimes are committed
and who the victims are. Andso it was interesting to me because the
name that popped into my head wasWilliam Reese. And he was a truck
driver and also works as like aranch hand, worked a lot with horses,
(07:27):
and his crimes. His first knowncrime was in nineteen eighty six,
and he was a truck driver andso he would go from the Oklahoma City
area, Oklahoma area, down intoTexas all the way from you know,
North Texas, going through Houston,going down to Galveston and back up to
Oklahoma. So he really was onthe road a lot and hit a lot
(07:51):
of different cities and has a lotof victims in different cities across Oklahoma and
Texas. And his seems to behis mo was to find women in distress
on the roadway and offer to help. Many times the tire would have been
(08:11):
changed. Other times women. Youknow, there's a case where a woman's
car was flooded out in the inthe water, you know, a flash
flood type situation. And he droveup in his eighteen wheeler like a night
in shining armor and said, oh, get in the cab, you know
my car, I'll take you toa pay phone. And so I was
(08:33):
struck by the similarities of some ofthe women in the four Worth cases where
they had car trouble sometimes explained sometimeto the unexplained, and William Reese,
so he was. His first knowncase was nineteen eighty six a young woman,
a freshman at the University of Oklahomawho has car trouble and she survives.
(08:56):
And he is actually put on trialin nineteen eighty seven then and goes
to jail. It was a twentyfive year sentence, but he only served
ten years in the kidnapping case,and immediately when he gets out in nineteen
ninety seven, he starts committing thesame types of crimes, and he also
is known to have committed murder aswell. And there are cases where he
(09:22):
would put he would stand outside agas station and he would post up there
and watch for women to come inalone into the gas station. While they're
in the gas station, he wouldgo slash their tire, puncture their tire,
and then he would follow them intothe night into the day, and
and you know, take it fromthere. And so that seemed to be
(09:45):
a very similar emo to several ofthe cases that you looked at. And
I just wondered, you know,if the timing lined up pre nineteen eighty
seven when he went into prison forthe first time, if you potentially as
a truck driver, we could findout, you know, if his routes
took him to the Fort Worth area. The crimes that initially put William Reese
(10:11):
behind bars occurred in the spring ofnineteen eighty six, around the same time
Curtis Don Brown was committing one ofhis known crimes, the murder of Jewel
Woods in Fort Worth. Reese,then a twenty six year old truck driver,
picked up a nineteen year old collegestudent in Norman, Oklahoma, under
the pretense of helping her after hercar had broken down. Once inside his
(10:35):
truck, Reese tied her up andraped her and said his intention was to
take her to Houston. At somepoint along the way, the victim escaped
and survived the attack. While awaitingtrial for that kidnapping, Reese raped another
Oklahoma woman whom he followed home froma bar. Reese was convicted of both
crimes and was sentenced to twenty fiveyears and in Oklahoma prison, but he
(10:58):
only served ten going free in Octobernineteen ninety six. By July of nineteen
ninety seven, he was passing throughNorth Texas, this time committing murder in
the city of Denton, just northof Fort Worth. Denton, if you
recall, is where Sarah Kashka andher mother had moved to from Fort Worth.
(11:18):
I don't want to confuse you,though Sarah disappeared at the end of
nineteen eighty four, nearly thirteen yearsbefore Rhese kidnapped a victim from Denton.
But it's notable because he was definitelyin North Texas as he hunted for and
found a victim right and one ofhis victims actually was in Denton. Correct,
that's right, Kelly Cox. Thatwas an unsolved case for many years.
(11:41):
That was in nineteen ninety seven case. If people aren't familiar with that,
unbelievably tragic and just a really hardcase because that young woman was actually
touring the Denton County jail that morningwith her criminology class at the University of
North Texas. But whenever she gotout of the tour of the jail,
(12:05):
she realized she had actually locked herkeys in her car, so she wasn't
able to get in. And thisis I don't believe she had a cell
phone at this time. This wasnineteen ninety seven, pre cell phone.
So she tried to go use thephone at the jail and they they turned
her away, and so she wentto a gas station to buy a coke
(12:26):
to get some change to use apay phone, and that's where she had
the unfortunate, unbelievably unfortunate chance encounterwith William Reese. She allegedly spilled a
coke on him and that led toher kidnapping and murder. So it's it's
definitely true that he was in NorthTexas and that he was at a gas
(12:50):
station and found a young woman thatyou know was never seen alive again,
So he seems like a good suspectin a number of ways. The nineteen
ninety seven murder of Kelly Cox wasa case that our associate producer, Christine
Hughes, was personally aware of.Christine talked to Claire, Karen and I
through zoom. I actually remember theKelly Cox case. I was editor of
(13:15):
a newspaper in that region at thetime that had happened, so we covered
it. And she was also ayoung mother, She had a child,
and that was really a tragic thingfor her family. And it took a
long time for them to solve thatcase, so she was not found for
a while, and also he wasnot identified for a while. Is it
(13:41):
possible that William Reese sabotaged Angela Ewart'scar that night at the seven eleven in
nineteen eighty four? Was he watchingher from somewhere nearby? Perhaps? Another
person of interest is an unknown assailantwho attempted to abduct a young woman in
(14:05):
southwest Fort Worth at around the sametime as Angie's and Sarah's abductions in December
of nineteen eighty four. The kidnappingattempt was even in the same Wedgewood neighborhood
where both Sarah and Angie were lastseen alive. It was also just a
mile or two from where Katherine Davisand Cindy Heller each disappeared. Tria Foster,
(14:30):
known as Tria Jester at the time, lived with her grandparents in the
Wedgewood area and was friends with SarahKashka. We talked with her by phone
about what happened when someone attempted toabduct to you? Was that there in
that neighborhood? Yes, yes,right Caddy corner from my grandparents house.
So I was walking to my friendhouse that was kind of down that hill
(14:54):
on the way where those apartments were, and I was, you know,
I had just cross the trail lakeand I was, I was right there
at that corner. Um, anda guy I grew up, I grew
up, drove up and I couldhave sworn it was like a green I've
I've curved the details or listened tothe podcast, and it's saying that he
(15:16):
was in a blue truck. Iremember it being a green truck, a
greenish truck that was kindo lusty orolder. Um. And he pulled up
and he said get in, andI immediately went because I was always taught
just like go walk into a house, you know, the seas act like
you lived there. Um, Icouldn't get in, so I sat on
(15:39):
the back of a car because everything'shad like card boards over there. They
don't really have garages. So Ithought, like when couldn't see me?
But I guess my legs were there, and he was still very good,
I'm not leaving, you might aswell get in. I'm not going anywhere,
and I know where you live.Um, And so I just kind
of sat there for a long timeand I kind of kept looking like I
need to make it for it.But I was afraid that he could get
(16:02):
out and get me because he waslike reaching in his pocket, like maybe
had a gun or something like that. A carspooled up behind him, and
I want to say it was likea station wagon because he was kind of
in the middle of the road.He had to pull up a little bit.
And that's when I took off andland to my grandparents house. But
he remember him having kind of youknow, shoulder link brown hair, I
(16:29):
want to say, like an armygreen jacket on. I don't remember color
of eyes or anything. Like that, but I remember it's sandy brown hair
kind of long and then the oldergreenish truck. As it turns out,
another friend of tree Is had anencounter with a man fitting that same description.
My girlfriend I was walking to somebodywas following her in a similar truck
(16:51):
when she was on her bicycle.And that was right up from where my
grandparents was. So and that wasprobably a month after a debt. What
happened, miss day So I thinkhe was in that area for a while.
The person, the person that followedher was at the same type of
truck. Yes, yes, yeah, I don't think they called the police
(17:15):
and he didn't stop and try todo anything. But her mom called my
grandmother and had a long conversation aboutit, and like neither of us were
really allowed to walk or rider bikesaround there anymore. And this was in
broad daylight, correct, broad daylight. This was the middle of the day.
There's like two o'clock in the afternoon, okay, on like a Saturday.
(17:38):
Is it possible this is the assailantwho abducted and murdered Sarah Koshka.
Remember we told you in episode twothat a car was stolen from the Wedgewood
area the same night that Sarah wentmissing. That car was later found abandoned
somewhere in Dallas. We're not sureif it was the same part of Dallas
where Sarah's body was found, butthe val was not a pickup truck.
(18:02):
Tria gave us some of her thoughtsabout Sarah. We would talk on the
phone all the time. She waslike my confident person because she was older
and always, you know, gaveadvice and stuff like that. So she
was older, she was. Shewas also kind of more, you know,
she was. She was not somebodyreally messed with that reason. I
just remember that being like, wasreally surprised, like she would she either
(18:23):
she knew this person or she wouldhave put up a fight. I think
knowing who she is. While Tria'sexperience may help shed light on Sarah's abduction
and murder, and maybe even AngieEwart's, it does little to help explain
the other cases. A third potentialsuspect was brought to our attention by a
(19:02):
listener who messaged us on Facebook.In January of nineteen seventy eight, seventeen
year old Licia McGee was brutally murderedafter she didn't return home late one evening,
her car was found abandoned on theside of the highway and her body
was found in the trunk. Althoughher murder happened several years before the cases
(19:23):
we have discussed in our first season, Leicia lived in southwest Fort Worth and
her car and body were recovered alongthe same route Angie Ewrett was driving the
night she pulled over with a flattire and then vanished. Leicia McGee's killer
has never been officially identified. However, a cigarette butt left in Licia's car
(19:45):
led investigators years later to a Fortworthman who was in prison for aggravated assault.
That man is Robin Duwayne Carter.This is Karen, and DNA recovered
from those cigarettes were tied both tothe victim and to Robin Carter. And
although Robin lived in the same neighborhoodas the victim, he says that they
(20:07):
did not have any interaction with eachother, that they had never really met
or talked or hung out anything likethat, so there was no reason for
his DNA to be on a cigarettebutt inside her vehicle. But police say
the cigarette but was there the DNAas a positive result, and that's how
they tracked it to him. Carteris scheduled to be released on parole after
(20:32):
serving a prison term for severely injuringa woman in nineteen ninety five in a
Fort Worth suburb. Prosecutors said hedeliberately hit the woman with a pickup he
was driving while she was out fora walk. The woman survived, but
required five surgeries and months of physicaltherapy to recover. It wasn't Robin Carter's
first brush with the law. Hisrap sheet dates back to his teen years.
(20:56):
When he was just sixteen, hewas charged with attacking a twenty four
year old seminary student who notably washaving car trouble. That crime happened just
days after Lesia McGee was murdered.Carter later got into trouble for marijuana possession,
d WI, and burglary of avehicle. In nineteen eighty seven,
(21:17):
he went on an hour's long crimespree that included carjacking, theft, and
aggravated robbery. He committed the stringof crimes in fort Worth and neighboring Benbrook.
Carter was originally a person of interestin Lesha McGee's murder, but he
was never charged. Then, intwo thousand and nine, Carter's DNA returned
(21:37):
to Coda's hit when compared with theDNA of the cigarette, but from Lesiha's
car. It's also noteworthy that itwas in December of nineteen seventy seven when
he stole a seminary student's car duringhis attack on her. He was arrested
after he wrecked the vehicle on aneighborhood street. Less than two months later,
Lesia McGee was on her way homefrom visiting friends on the street that
(22:00):
Carter wrecked the stolen car when shewas attacked and killed. The strange thing,
though, is that the prosecutor isnot going to bring this to trial
and less new evidence comes forward becausethe existence of the DNA on the cigarette,
but he says is not enough fora conviction, and he's afraid of
(22:23):
losing the case because all of hisother convictions and the circumstantial evidence the prosecutor
says would not be admissible in court. So was Robin Carter, who lived
near the Wedgewood area in the lateseventies and early eighties, only a few
streets away from Lesia McGee, responsiblefor the nineteen eighty four disappearances of Angela
(22:47):
Ewart, Sarah Kashka and Cindy Heller. It's certainly possible, but we feel
that it's unlikely. In all ofour seven cold cases, sexual assault appears
to be a motivating fact one thatis an established pattern. For Curtis Don
Brown, it does not appear thatLesha McGee was sexually assaulted. That leads
(23:08):
me to a question that I wantedto ask, Claire. Have you encountered
a lot in in the work thatyou've done where prosecutors and investigators are at
odds and how as a reporter doyou approach that and try to tell that
story and tell both sides of thatstory. Yeah, it's a challenge whenever
there isn't a clear runaway suspect that'shead and shoulders above the rest. But
(23:33):
in our experience, in my experience, typically you know, they reserve the
suspect for when they have you know, their their clear guy, you know
in their law enforcement eyes, inthe eyes of the state that will soon
be a defendant, than they'll callthem the suspect. And before that,
you know, it's persons of interest, and that's that's a can be a
(23:56):
difficult area to come in as areporter and talk about persons of interest because
you want to be fair to everyone. A fourth potential suspect that we wish
we would have taken a closer lookat before now is Glen Samuel McCurley Junior.
(24:18):
Earlier this year, McCurley was convictedof the nineteen seventy four kidnapping and
murder of seventeen year old Carla Walker. He dragged her from a car in
a fort Worth Bowling Alley parking lot, bludgeoned her boyfriend until he lost consciousness,
and then took Carla about ten milessouth to rape and strangle her.
He left her body in a culvertnear a lake. Like Robin Carter,
(24:44):
McCurley had a prior conviction of krtheft from his younger days. Also,
like Carter, McCurley had surfaced ondetective's radar not long after the murder,
but they were never able to definitivelylink him to the case. However,
in twenty tw money, new DNAtesting produced conclusive evidence. Now detectives are
(25:04):
reviewing other cold cases to see ifany evidence remains that could be tested against
mccurley's DNA. Glenn McCurley moved toFort Worth in nineteen seventy two and was
free to commit crimes until his arrestlast year. In nineteen seventy eight,
he and his wife bought a housein a neighborhood just northwest of the Wedgewood
(25:26):
area, and he still lived therewhen he was arrested. The house is
less than a ten minute drive fromthe spots where Katherine Davis, Cindy Heller,
Angie Ewart, and Sarah Kashka wereall taken. It's also really interesting
that when McCurley was arrested for acar theft back in nineteen sixty one,
(25:47):
he had also stolen that vehicle froma Bowling Alley parking lot, and his
known victim, Carla Walker, waskidnapped from a Bowling Alley parking lot in
another part of town. Wedgewood Bowl, which touted in nineteen eighty four newspaper
ads that it sold soft drinks fora quarter and hot dogs for fifty cents,
was just down the hill from thegas station where Angie Ewart bought gas
(26:10):
the night she was taken, anddirectly across the street from where Sarah Koshka
was last seen alive. McCurley didn'tlive as close to the spots where these
women vanished, as Curtis Don Browndid. But he's a very viable person
of interest, and like Curtis Brown, McCurley spent time as a teenager in
a boy's home. E two clearlyhad a troubled childhood. It was in
(26:41):
the interest of fairness that we didn'tspend a lot of time in the podcast
discussing a person who was arrested innineteen eighty five, specifically in connection with
Sarah Cooshka's murder. That person wasRensen Wolf, who we mentioned briefly in
episode four when we discussed possible suspects. Wolf, if you recall, was
the son of wealthy and well knownNew Yorkers. He found his way to
(27:03):
Fort Worth, Texas, where helater became embroiled in a child molestation charge
in nineteen eighty three, a chargethat, while later dropped, was still
pending when he was arrested in nineteeneighty five. We spent a great deal
of time investigating remsen Wolf. However, like the police task force in nineteen
eighty five, we could find nothingthat substantiated him as a viable suspect.
(27:27):
Despite the unusual circumstances surrounding him.Not long after wolf was released, he
returned to New York, and wecan't find any reports of crimes he was
later associated with. After Wolfe diedin nineteen ninety eight, the contents of
a storage unit filled with his belongingswent up for auction. We reached out
(27:48):
to the owner and manager of thatstorage facility to determine if, by chance,
any of the contents were cataloged beforethe auction. We never received a
response. Similarly, we have beenunable to determine what became of Curtis Don
Brown's belongings after he died in prisonearlier this year. We have filed a
request for that information from the TexasDepartment of Corrections. It is still pending,
(28:12):
and we will, of course letyou know if we discover anything important.
In both cases, it's possible thatmaterials left behind by either of these
men could shed light on their involvement, if any, in these mysterious cold
cases. Since Claire Saintemal was graciousenough to share some time with us,
(28:41):
we wanted to get her general opinionsas a listener of our podcast about her
thoughts on this nineteen eighties murder spreeare you shocked to think about what happened
in the eighties and like, ohmy gosh, who knew. I mean,
what were your reactions to that?Yeah? Absolutely, I had no
idea that there was this, um, you know, extremely fraught situation for
(29:06):
women traveling alone in their cars inthe DFW area, you know, in
the eighties that that was like adaily concern that you know, I several
of the people that you interviewed onyour podcast talked about just the feeling of
panic and anxiety, and you know, like you said, this is the
(29:26):
age before cell phones, and sothe idea that you know, if you
get into car trouble, you know, it's potentially a life threatening situation is
terrifying. And you know, asa crime reporter, who's who's cynical and
and everything else. I always tellmy friends, you know, if you
get a flat tire, just driveon the rim until you can get somewhere.
(29:48):
Do not pull over on the sideof the road, like it's not
worth it. Like if it's it'sdark and you're alone, you know,
just get somewhere, get somewhere withother people and hopefully some security cameras and
all that good stuff, because um, you know, stranger danger is rare,
but um, there's certain circumstances thatcan make it, you know,
(30:10):
much more likely that you could,you know, become become a target of
these absolutely, um, you know, just unbelievable. It's hard to call
them bad luck. But you know, if you're in the if you just
happen to come across the path ofsomeone who you know wishous harm and you're
in a vulnerable situation, it canend very badly. And you know,
(30:36):
just trying to not live your lifein fear, but also just recognizing,
you know, maybe maybe I'm justgonna push it and get to that gas
station or get to somewhere where youknow there will be other people around.
Um, you know, I thinkthat that's uh, that's good advice.
Even in twenty twenty one, let'stalk about DNA evidence. We're constantly trying
(31:00):
to push and find ways to getevidence that can be tested for DNA,
whether it matches Curtis Don Brown ornot. Our goal is to find out
you know, who the who thekiller was. UM, have you encountered
that in the stories that you've covered, How does DNA evidence play into anything
that you've covered, anything interesting thatyou've encountered along those lines, as you've
(31:23):
been a crime reporter for so long. Yeah, probably. Some of the
more interesting cases are where they've hadDNA and they've they've used it to create
a suspect profile. Um. There'sa place called parabin Labs and they can
actually take if it's a good enoughof a DNA sample, they can take
(31:44):
it and create a sketch of thevictim and that is just fascinating by you
know, the features of the DNA. They're able to say, this is
what the person's facial structure looks like, this is their race, this is
their ICL her hair color. Insome cases, the picture that they have
drawn looks like a drawing of someone'sdriver's license picture. And it has solved
(32:09):
crimes. They have solved multiple casesacross the country. And it's a developing
technology, but it's one that lawenforcement is relying on, especially in cases
where they have a good DNA profileand they don't have a suspect. You
know, it's a way to getyou know, like an artist surrendering of
(32:30):
a suspect, and a lot oftimes they do that and they put it
out in the public in the mediaand people call in because they recognize the
person. That's how accurate it canbe. As we shared in our final
episode last March, Arlington police arestill trying to solve the murder of Terry
McAdams, the UTA student found brutallykilled in her boyfriend's apartment on Valentine's Day
(32:53):
nineteen eighty five. We believe thatbecause Terry and Sarah Costca were found then
days of their murders, their casesmay have the best chance of being solved
through DNA If sufficient evidence was saved, we pray that remaining DNA could be
used to build a suspect rendering likethe one Claire just described. I want
(33:15):
to mention two that a foundation associatedwith the Fort Worth Police Department has been
set up as a way for donorsto help pay for new, more advanced
DNA testing of evidence from Fort Worthcold cases. If you're interested, you
can make a donation online at FWPDCold Cases Support dot org. That's FWPD
(33:37):
for Fort Worth Police Department Cold CaseSupport dot Org. Will include a link
in our show notes. Now,I want to ask you a question about
Final Days. The question I wasgoing to ask you today was about the
(34:01):
cognitive interview that you wanted to conductwith Linda. If you haven't yet listened
to Final Days on Earth, LindaNienhauser was a Colorado hiker who saw the
body of Damien heard from a distancethe day after he went missing from a
late night Collins party in twenty fourteen. As Claire reveals in a bonus episode
(34:23):
that came out last August, LindaNienhauser, who had earlier agreed to undergo
a cognitive interview, unfortunately died ofcancer in January twenty twenty one before that
interview could happen. That is sotrue and it was heartbreaking. So the
idea of a cognitive interview is thatit's not using hypnosis. It's just using
(34:45):
memory aids and techniques that trauma therapistsuse for people to go back in the
recesses of their mind and recall usuallytraumatic events that for the most part,
they really do have a place inyour brain that for your own emotional health
(35:08):
and protection that you block off andtheir ways. There's relaxation exercises that have
been proven to help you access thosememories. And you know, it's often
used with people who have endured trauma. You know, it can be used
with children who have seen something andyou know, it's imprinted on them and
(35:34):
ten years later, five years later, whatever it may be, you know,
they're able to recall it with prettygood you know clarity. And forensic
artists have used it with women andother people who've been attacked and they don't
they think they can't remember anything abouttheir attacker, but they're able to go
(35:54):
back to that place put themselves inthat moment. A lot of it has
to do with um, you know, ye like I said, relaxation and
then also you know, building thatmemory piece by piece, you know,
would you remember what you were wearing, do you remember where you were sitting?
Do you remember you know what timeof day it was? And it
(36:15):
it really does help you, um, to get back to that place and
to to pull up you know,those memories in your mind. And then
there have been you know, provenit is somewhat controversial there of course,
there will always be people that thatum you know, don't support it,
don't believe in it, UM,but it has been used you know,
(36:35):
in in criminal cases and court casesby you know, authorities. Not being
able to conduct a cognitive interview withLynda Nienhauser is a big setback and Claire's
mission to uncover exactly how Damian Hurddied. In her podcast, she talks
about how she has waffled over theyears trying to make sense of a very
(36:55):
strange situation. Given my own feelingabout what happened to Damien, I just
had to ask Claire where she standstoday. So the final question that I
want to ask you about Final Days, I'll be honest, the first two
or three episodes, I kept going, Man, Claire's reaching, Claire's reaching.
This kid just killed himself. Hejust killed himself. Now, I'm
(37:17):
not sure. There's just so muchthere. There's just so much inconsistencies.
I'm just not sure. Is thatwhere you land today? You know,
I really do go back and forthon my theories and what I believe.
You know, The place that Ifeel that I'm in today is we deserve
(37:42):
more answers. His family deserves moreanswers, and it seems to me that
they could be given those answers ifpeople would come forward and talk about the
ID card usage, if they wouldtalk about, you know, if we
could identify who was driving that whitetruck that day at Cabin Creek and who
(38:05):
was using those bicycles. I believethat there could be innocent explanations for all
of it, but we need tohear it. As we ended our conversation,
Claire had a question for us.I was so glad to find your
podcast because it's so well produced andit's such an interesting story and really opened
(38:25):
my eyes to a trend that wasgoing on in DFW that you know,
I had no idea about. Andyou know, I guess was this was
Curtis not Curtis don Brown. Butwere these unsolved cases things that you had
worked on previously in your career andyou had how did you find your topic
(38:49):
for still for season one? Sothat's one of the things that Christina and
I debate about because we can't rememberexactly who first found these cases. I
think it was her, She thinksit was me. Part of it was
also the fact that we grew upin DFW. We were alive when that
was going on. We were livingin the Dallas area, not Fort Worth,
and so we were oblivious to whatwas happening in Fort Worth. So
(39:13):
as she really started diving in,As Christine started diving in and we would
just start talking about it, Ijust kept getting mortified. I kept going,
my god, we were here,we lived through this. How did
I not hear a thing about allof these women being found murdered and missing,
you know, just thirty miles downthe road when I was a junior
(39:34):
and senior in high school. Sothat was the personal connection for me.
I think you kind of felt thesame way, but it just grew into
something that we felt really passionate about. I would say I was those women.
I was those women at that time. I was the same age,
I had the same experiences with college. I went to the same nightclubs,
(40:00):
and I heard about them on thenews at the time, and you thought
about myself and my safety as aresult. So for me it was extremely
personal. Well, Claire, it'sbeen a real pleasure. We thank you
for making the track over to ourneck of the woods, and thank you
(40:22):
so much for being willing to spendyour afternoon with us. So this was
very interesting. Yeah, I enjoyedit. Thanks for having me. So
with season one behind us, manyof you have asked what's next for season
two, we're moving to a differentcold case. Well, actually it's two
(40:45):
cold cases, both of which takeus to the Pacific Northwest. First,
we have a woman who vanished andwas presumably murdered in nineteen seventy six,
and then there is a woman's bodythat was found in the area almost exactly
two years later. Like everyone associatedwith the cases, we're trying to figure
(41:07):
it out. Is this the samewoman? With DNA and modern forensics?
That should be easy, right?What could have happened that has kept those
long awaited answers hidden for so long? Join us January twenty seven for season
two of Still. Anyone with informationpertaining to any of the murders in season
(41:37):
one should contact the Fort Worth PoliceDepartment's Cold Case Unit at cold Case at
fort WORTHPD dot com. Still asa production of The Reporter's Notebook and Grayson
Shaw Media, You can connect withus online at The Reporter's Notebook dot com
(41:59):
or via email at info at theReporter's Notebook dot com. Still was researched,
written and produced by Karen Shaw Anderson. Research was also provided by associate
producer Christine Hughes. Original music bySmith Uoso, I'm Your Host and associate
(42:25):
producer Gary Anderson. Special thanks toClaire Santama, hosting producer of Final Days
on Earth. Like Follow and subscribeto still on your favorite podcast platform and
(42:45):
follow us on Facebook, Twitter,or Instagram to join the conversation. Limitations
three twenty one. Yet I stilldare to hope when I remember this
In our first season of Still,we explored a period of time in Fort
Worth, Texas between nineteen eighty threeand nineteen eighty six, when more than
twenty women vanished and were later foundmurdered. Some were shot, some were
strangled, some were bludgeoned to death. Most had been sexually assaulted, and
(00:34):
sadly, few of their cases haveever been solved. Our investigation of this
time period led us to focus onseven specific cold cases, the rapes and
murders of Mary Till, Sandra Bush, Katherine Davis, Cindy Heller, Angela
Ewart, Sarah Kashka, and TerryMcAdams. Through our research of known killers
(00:59):
at the time, we homed inon a likely culprit. Curtis Don Brown,
was already serving a life sentence.He had raped and murdered three women.
He died in a Texas prison inearly twenty twenty one before we could
interview him. Now, we wantto step back and discuss what listeners have
(01:21):
shared with us about their theories andmemories of that time of terror. In
this bonus episode, we'll also besharing unreleased tidbits of information, follow up
interviews, and a Q and adiscussion with a special guest from the pages
(01:52):
of the reporter's notebook. This isStill. I'm your host Gary Anderson.
(02:38):
Hello everyone, and welcome to ourbonus episode of Still season one. At
the end of the season. Earlierthis year, we asked listeners to share
with us their thoughts about our story. Were there other killers out there we
should have considered, is there anyevidence we missed? What cases should we
tackle next? And did you guysdeliver? We want to begin with a
(03:13):
discussion of potential suspects suggested by ourlisteners. While a number of names were
brought to our attention, four inparticular piqued our interest. The first comes
courtesy of a special guest, fellowjournalist and podcaster, Claire Santamal. Claire
met with us recently to discuss theoriesof our cases. I'm going to play
(03:36):
some of that conversation for you.I wanted to start out with tell us
a little bit about you, tellus a little bit about your show,
and just expound on that. Thanksso much for having me, Gary.
It's fun to be here in reallife. I don't think we get to
do that in the podcast world thatmuch, so it's nice to be sitting
(03:58):
across the table from here chatting.I've been in the Dallas area for about
ten years now, and you know, really enjoy crime reporting. That's where
I've found my place. I doit primarily for CBS News. I'm a
development producer for the show forty eightHours, which airs on Saturday nights on
(04:21):
CBS, and then I also dosome crime I've done some crime stories for
sixty Minutes and the morning and eveningshows as well, so pretty much all
crime all the time. But Ifound a new love of podcast. And
you know, at first, Iwas just a listener for many years.
(04:42):
And then whenever I was approached about, you know, did I want to
host my own podcast? Did Isee myself in that space? You know,
it was it was a gradual evolution, you know, one of those
things where I was like, well, I really enjoy this as a consumer,
you know, but I hadn't seenmyself as someone who would be creating
that content, um. And ittook me a little while to warm up
(05:02):
to the idea. But once Idid, you know, I've really enjoyed
it and see it as as sucha valuable medium. Um. And So
my first show was called Final Dayson Earth and the first season came out
in April twenty twenty one, andit's on the life and death of Damien
Hurd, who was a college wrestlerwho grew up not too far from where
(05:28):
we are now in the Fort Wortharea in Texas. But he got a
college scholarship to Western Colorado University inGunnison, and that, unfortunately, is
where his life ended. And somy story goes to the final days of
his life and tries to find answersfor um, you know, how how
he ended up dead at the ageof twenty and and many people have raised,
(05:54):
you know, questions about about thatinvestigation and about the ruling in the
case, which was suicide but hasbeen heavily disputed by his family. So
my podcast ended up being thirteen episodes, and we look at that case inside
and out, backwards and forwards andevery way in between. If you haven't
(06:15):
listened to Final Days on Earth,find it and add it to your playlist
immediately. You won't be disappointed.We're going to discuss some details of Claire's
podcast with her, but first wewanted to dive right into our cases,
particularly since Claire herself offered up apotential suspect that we found intriguing. This
is Karen talking. I wanted toask you, Claire. You had mentioned
(06:40):
a potential suspect for our cases,William Reese, and so I wanted to
ask you to just tell us whatyou know about him and kind of why
you think that he would be aviable suspect or our cases. Yeah.
Absolutely, So, as I waslistening to your episodes and you're going through
the emo of the killer, andyou know, like you say in your
(07:03):
podcast, it could be one killer, it could be multiple killers, but
there's a lot of similarities in youknow, the way the crimes are committed
and who the victims are. Andso it was interesting to me because the
name that popped into my head wasWilliam Reese. And he was a truck
driver and also works as like aranch hand, worked a lot with horses,
(07:27):
and his crimes. His first knowncrime was in nineteen eighty six,
and he was a truck driver andso he would go from the Oklahoma City
area, Oklahoma area, down intoTexas all the way from you know,
North Texas, going through Houston,going down to Galveston and back up to
Oklahoma. So he really was onthe road a lot and hit a lot
(07:51):
of different cities and has a lotof victims in different cities across Oklahoma and
Texas. And his seems to behis mo was to find women in distress
on the roadway and offer to help. Many times the tire would have been
(08:11):
changed. Other times women. Youknow, there's a case where a woman's
car was flooded out in the inthe water, you know, a flash
flood type situation. And he droveup in his eighteen wheeler like a night
in shining armor and said, oh, get in the cab, you know
my car, I'll take you toa pay phone. And so I was
(08:33):
struck by the similarities of some ofthe women in the four Worth cases where
they had car trouble sometimes explained sometimeto the unexplained, and William Reese,
so he was. His first knowncase was nineteen eighty six a young woman,
a freshman at the University of Oklahomawho has car trouble and she survives.
(08:56):
And he is actually put on trialin nineteen eighty seven then and goes
to jail. It was a twentyfive year sentence, but he only served
ten years in the kidnapping case,and immediately when he gets out in nineteen
ninety seven, he starts committing thesame types of crimes, and he also
is known to have committed murder aswell. And there are cases where he
(09:22):
would put he would stand outside agas station and he would post up there
and watch for women to come inalone into the gas station. While they're
in the gas station, he wouldgo slash their tire, puncture their tire,
and then he would follow them intothe night into the day, and
and you know, take it fromthere. And so that seemed to be
(09:45):
a very similar emo to several ofthe cases that you looked at. And
I just wondered, you know,if the timing lined up pre nineteen eighty
seven when he went into prison forthe first time, if you potentially as
a truck driver, we could findout, you know, if his routes
took him to the Fort Worth area. The crimes that initially put William Reese
(10:11):
behind bars occurred in the spring ofnineteen eighty six, around the same time
Curtis Don Brown was committing one ofhis known crimes, the murder of Jewel
Woods in Fort Worth. Reese,then a twenty six year old truck driver,
picked up a nineteen year old collegestudent in Norman, Oklahoma, under
the pretense of helping her after hercar had broken down. Once inside his
(10:35):
truck, Reese tied her up andraped her and said his intention was to
take her to Houston. At somepoint along the way, the victim escaped
and survived the attack. While awaitingtrial for that kidnapping, Reese raped another
Oklahoma woman whom he followed home froma bar. Reese was convicted of both
crimes and was sentenced to twenty fiveyears and in Oklahoma prison, but he
(10:58):
only served ten going free in Octobernineteen ninety six. By July of nineteen
ninety seven, he was passing throughNorth Texas, this time committing murder in
the city of Denton, just northof Fort Worth. Denton, if you
recall, is where Sarah Kashka andher mother had moved to from Fort Worth.
(11:18):
I don't want to confuse you,though Sarah disappeared at the end of
nineteen eighty four, nearly thirteen yearsbefore Rhese kidnapped a victim from Denton.
But it's notable because he was definitelyin North Texas as he hunted for and
found a victim right and one ofhis victims actually was in Denton. Correct,
that's right, Kelly Cox. Thatwas an unsolved case for many years.
(11:41):
That was in nineteen ninety seven case. If people aren't familiar with that,
unbelievably tragic and just a really hardcase because that young woman was actually
touring the Denton County jail that morningwith her criminology class at the University of
North Texas. But whenever she gotout of the tour of the jail,
(12:05):
she realized she had actually locked herkeys in her car, so she wasn't
able to get in. And thisis I don't believe she had a cell
phone at this time. This wasnineteen ninety seven, pre cell phone.
So she tried to go use thephone at the jail and they they turned
her away, and so she wentto a gas station to buy a coke
(12:26):
to get some change to use apay phone, and that's where she had
the unfortunate, unbelievably unfortunate chance encounterwith William Reese. She allegedly spilled a
coke on him and that led toher kidnapping and murder. So it's it's
definitely true that he was in NorthTexas and that he was at a gas
(12:50):
station and found a young woman thatyou know was never seen alive again,
So he seems like a good suspectin a number of ways. The nineteen
ninety seven murder of Kelly Cox wasa case that our associate producer, Christine
Hughes, was personally aware of.Christine talked to Claire, Karen and I
through zoom. I actually remember theKelly Cox case. I was editor of
(13:15):
a newspaper in that region at thetime that had happened, so we covered
it. And she was also ayoung mother, She had a child,
and that was really a tragic thingfor her family. And it took a
long time for them to solve thatcase, so she was not found for
a while, and also he wasnot identified for a while. Is it
(13:41):
possible that William Reese sabotaged Angela Ewart'scar that night at the seven eleven in
nineteen eighty four? Was he watchingher from somewhere nearby? Perhaps? Another
person of interest is an unknown assailantwho attempted to abduct a young woman in
(14:05):
southwest Fort Worth at around the sametime as Angie's and Sarah's abductions in December
of nineteen eighty four. The kidnappingattempt was even in the same Wedgewood neighborhood
where both Sarah and Angie were lastseen alive. It was also just a
mile or two from where Katherine Davisand Cindy Heller each disappeared. Tria Foster,
(14:30):
known as Tria Jester at the time, lived with her grandparents in the
Wedgewood area and was friends with SarahKashka. We talked with her by phone
about what happened when someone attempted toabduct to you? Was that there in
that neighborhood? Yes, yes,right Caddy corner from my grandparents house.
So I was walking to my friendhouse that was kind of down that hill
(14:54):
on the way where those apartments were, and I was, you know,
I had just cross the trail lakeand I was, I was right there
at that corner. Um, anda guy I grew up, I grew
up, drove up and I couldhave sworn it was like a green I've
I've curved the details or listened tothe podcast, and it's saying that he
(15:16):
was in a blue truck. Iremember it being a green truck, a
greenish truck that was kindo lusty orolder. Um. And he pulled up
and he said get in, andI immediately went because I was always taught
just like go walk into a house, you know, the seas act like
you lived there. Um, Icouldn't get in, so I sat on
(15:39):
the back of a car because everything'shad like card boards over there. They
don't really have garages. So Ithought, like when couldn't see me?
But I guess my legs were there, and he was still very good,
I'm not leaving, you might aswell get in. I'm not going anywhere,
and I know where you live.Um, And so I just kind
of sat there for a long timeand I kind of kept looking like I
need to make it for it.But I was afraid that he could get
(16:02):
out and get me because he waslike reaching in his pocket, like maybe
had a gun or something like that. A carspooled up behind him, and
I want to say it was likea station wagon because he was kind of
in the middle of the road.He had to pull up a little bit.
And that's when I took off andland to my grandparents house. But
he remember him having kind of youknow, shoulder link brown hair, I
(16:29):
want to say, like an armygreen jacket on. I don't remember color
of eyes or anything. Like that, but I remember it's sandy brown hair
kind of long and then the oldergreenish truck. As it turns out,
another friend of tree Is had anencounter with a man fitting that same description.
My girlfriend I was walking to somebodywas following her in a similar truck
(16:51):
when she was on her bicycle.And that was right up from where my
grandparents was. So and that wasprobably a month after a debt. What
happened, miss day So I thinkhe was in that area for a while.
The person, the person that followedher was at the same type of
truck. Yes, yes, yeah, I don't think they called the police
(17:15):
and he didn't stop and try todo anything. But her mom called my
grandmother and had a long conversation aboutit, and like neither of us were
really allowed to walk or rider bikesaround there anymore. And this was in
broad daylight, correct, broad daylight. This was the middle of the day.
There's like two o'clock in the afternoon, okay, on like a Saturday.
(17:38):
Is it possible this is the assailantwho abducted and murdered Sarah Koshka.
Remember we told you in episode twothat a car was stolen from the Wedgewood
area the same night that Sarah wentmissing. That car was later found abandoned
somewhere in Dallas. We're not sureif it was the same part of Dallas
where Sarah's body was found, butthe val was not a pickup truck.
(18:02):
Tria gave us some of her thoughtsabout Sarah. We would talk on the
phone all the time. She waslike my confident person because she was older
and always, you know, gaveadvice and stuff like that. So she
was older, she was. Shewas also kind of more, you know,
she was. She was not somebodyreally messed with that reason. I
just remember that being like, wasreally surprised, like she would she either
(18:23):
she knew this person or she wouldhave put up a fight. I think
knowing who she is. While Tria'sexperience may help shed light on Sarah's abduction
and murder, and maybe even AngieEwart's, it does little to help explain
the other cases. A third potentialsuspect was brought to our attention by a
(19:02):
listener who messaged us on Facebook.In January of nineteen seventy eight, seventeen
year old Licia McGee was brutally murderedafter she didn't return home late one evening,
her car was found abandoned on theside of the highway and her body
was found in the trunk. Althoughher murder happened several years before the cases
(19:23):
we have discussed in our first season, Leicia lived in southwest Fort Worth and
her car and body were recovered alongthe same route Angie Ewrett was driving the
night she pulled over with a flattire and then vanished. Leicia McGee's killer
has never been officially identified. However, a cigarette butt left in Licia's car
(19:45):
led investigators years later to a Fortworthman who was in prison for aggravated assault.
That man is Robin Duwayne Carter.This is Karen, and DNA recovered
from those cigarettes were tied both tothe victim and to Robin Carter. And
although Robin lived in the same neighborhoodas the victim, he says that they
(20:07):
did not have any interaction with eachother, that they had never really met
or talked or hung out anything likethat, so there was no reason for
his DNA to be on a cigarettebutt inside her vehicle. But police say
the cigarette but was there the DNAas a positive result, and that's how
they tracked it to him. Carteris scheduled to be released on parole after
(20:32):
serving a prison term for severely injuringa woman in nineteen ninety five in a
Fort Worth suburb. Prosecutors said hedeliberately hit the woman with a pickup he
was driving while she was out fora walk. The woman survived, but
required five surgeries and months of physicaltherapy to recover. It wasn't Robin Carter's
first brush with the law. Hisrap sheet dates back to his teen years.
(20:56):
When he was just sixteen, hewas charged with attacking a twenty four
year old seminary student who notably washaving car trouble. That crime happened just
days after Lesia McGee was murdered.Carter later got into trouble for marijuana possession,
d WI, and burglary of avehicle. In nineteen eighty seven,
(21:17):
he went on an hour's long crimespree that included carjacking, theft, and
aggravated robbery. He committed the stringof crimes in fort Worth and neighboring Benbrook.
Carter was originally a person of interestin Lesha McGee's murder, but he
was never charged. Then, intwo thousand and nine, Carter's DNA returned
(21:37):
to Coda's hit when compared with theDNA of the cigarette, but from Lesiha's
car. It's also noteworthy that itwas in December of nineteen seventy seven when
he stole a seminary student's car duringhis attack on her. He was arrested
after he wrecked the vehicle on aneighborhood street. Less than two months later,
Lesia McGee was on her way homefrom visiting friends on the street that
(22:00):
Carter wrecked the stolen car when shewas attacked and killed. The strange thing,
though, is that the prosecutor isnot going to bring this to trial
and less new evidence comes forward becausethe existence of the DNA on the cigarette,
but he says is not enough fora conviction, and he's afraid of
(22:23):
losing the case because all of hisother convictions and the circumstantial evidence the prosecutor
says would not be admissible in court. So was Robin Carter, who lived
near the Wedgewood area in the lateseventies and early eighties, only a few
streets away from Lesia McGee, responsiblefor the nineteen eighty four disappearances of Angela
(22:47):
Ewart, Sarah Kashka and Cindy Heller. It's certainly possible, but we feel
that it's unlikely. In all ofour seven cold cases, sexual assault appears
to be a motivating fact one thatis an established pattern. For Curtis Don
Brown, it does not appear thatLesha McGee was sexually assaulted. That leads
(23:08):
me to a question that I wantedto ask, Claire. Have you encountered
a lot in in the work thatyou've done where prosecutors and investigators are at
odds and how as a reporter doyou approach that and try to tell that
story and tell both sides of thatstory. Yeah, it's a challenge whenever
there isn't a clear runaway suspect that'shead and shoulders above the rest. But
(23:33):
in our experience, in my experience, typically you know, they reserve the
suspect for when they have you know, their their clear guy, you know
in their law enforcement eyes, inthe eyes of the state that will soon
be a defendant, than they'll callthem the suspect. And before that,
you know, it's persons of interest, and that's that's a can be a
(23:56):
difficult area to come in as areporter and talk about persons of interest because
you want to be fair to everyone. A fourth potential suspect that we wish
we would have taken a closer lookat before now is Glen Samuel McCurley Junior.
(24:18):
Earlier this year, McCurley was convictedof the nineteen seventy four kidnapping and
murder of seventeen year old Carla Walker. He dragged her from a car in
a fort Worth Bowling Alley parking lot, bludgeoned her boyfriend until he lost consciousness,
and then took Carla about ten milessouth to rape and strangle her.
He left her body in a culvertnear a lake. Like Robin Carter,
(24:44):
McCurley had a prior conviction of krtheft from his younger days. Also,
like Carter, McCurley had surfaced ondetective's radar not long after the murder,
but they were never able to definitivelylink him to the case. However,
in twenty tw money, new DNAtesting produced conclusive evidence. Now detectives are
(25:04):
reviewing other cold cases to see ifany evidence remains that could be tested against
mccurley's DNA. Glenn McCurley moved toFort Worth in nineteen seventy two and was
free to commit crimes until his arrestlast year. In nineteen seventy eight,
he and his wife bought a housein a neighborhood just northwest of the Wedgewood
(25:26):
area, and he still lived therewhen he was arrested. The house is
less than a ten minute drive fromthe spots where Katherine Davis, Cindy Heller,
Angie Ewart, and Sarah Kashka wereall taken. It's also really interesting
that when McCurley was arrested for acar theft back in nineteen sixty one,
(25:47):
he had also stolen that vehicle froma Bowling Alley parking lot, and his
known victim, Carla Walker, waskidnapped from a Bowling Alley parking lot in
another part of town. Wedgewood Bowl, which touted in nineteen eighty four newspaper
ads that it sold soft drinks fora quarter and hot dogs for fifty cents,
was just down the hill from thegas station where Angie Ewart bought gas
(26:10):
the night she was taken, anddirectly across the street from where Sarah Koshka
was last seen alive. McCurley didn'tlive as close to the spots where these
women vanished, as Curtis Don Browndid. But he's a very viable person
of interest, and like Curtis Brown, McCurley spent time as a teenager in
a boy's home. E two clearlyhad a troubled childhood. It was in
(26:41):
the interest of fairness that we didn'tspend a lot of time in the podcast
discussing a person who was arrested innineteen eighty five, specifically in connection with
Sarah Cooshka's murder. That person wasRensen Wolf, who we mentioned briefly in
episode four when we discussed possible suspects. Wolf, if you recall, was
the son of wealthy and well knownNew Yorkers. He found his way to
(27:03):
Fort Worth, Texas, where helater became embroiled in a child molestation charge
in nineteen eighty three, a chargethat, while later dropped, was still
pending when he was arrested in nineteeneighty five. We spent a great deal
of time investigating remsen Wolf. However, like the police task force in nineteen
eighty five, we could find nothingthat substantiated him as a viable suspect.
(27:27):
Despite the unusual circumstances surrounding him.Not long after wolf was released, he
returned to New York, and wecan't find any reports of crimes he was
later associated with. After Wolfe diedin nineteen ninety eight, the contents of
a storage unit filled with his belongingswent up for auction. We reached out
(27:48):
to the owner and manager of thatstorage facility to determine if, by chance,
any of the contents were cataloged beforethe auction. We never received a
response. Similarly, we have beenunable to determine what became of Curtis Don
Brown's belongings after he died in prisonearlier this year. We have filed a
request for that information from the TexasDepartment of Corrections. It is still pending,
(28:12):
and we will, of course letyou know if we discover anything important.
In both cases, it's possible thatmaterials left behind by either of these
men could shed light on their involvement, if any, in these mysterious cold
cases. Since Claire Saintemal was graciousenough to share some time with us,
(28:41):
we wanted to get her general opinionsas a listener of our podcast about her
thoughts on this nineteen eighties murder spreeare you shocked to think about what happened
in the eighties and like, ohmy gosh, who knew. I mean,
what were your reactions to that?Yeah? Absolutely, I had no
idea that there was this, um, you know, extremely fraught situation for
(29:06):
women traveling alone in their cars inthe DFW area, you know, in
the eighties that that was like adaily concern that you know, I several
of the people that you interviewed onyour podcast talked about just the feeling of
panic and anxiety, and you know, like you said, this is the
(29:26):
age before cell phones, and sothe idea that you know, if you
get into car trouble, you know, it's potentially a life threatening situation is
terrifying. And you know, asa crime reporter, who's who's cynical and
and everything else. I always tellmy friends, you know, if you
get a flat tire, just driveon the rim until you can get somewhere.
(29:48):
Do not pull over on the sideof the road, like it's not
worth it. Like if it's it'sdark and you're alone, you know,
just get somewhere, get somewhere withother people and hopefully some security cameras and
all that good stuff, because um, you know, stranger danger is rare,
but um, there's certain circumstances thatcan make it, you know,
(30:10):
much more likely that you could,you know, become become a target of
these absolutely, um, you know, just unbelievable. It's hard to call
them bad luck. But you know, if you're in the if you just
happen to come across the path ofsomeone who you know wishous harm and you're
in a vulnerable situation, it canend very badly. And you know,
(30:36):
just trying to not live your lifein fear, but also just recognizing,
you know, maybe maybe I'm justgonna push it and get to that gas
station or get to somewhere where youknow there will be other people around.
Um, you know, I thinkthat that's uh, that's good advice.
Even in twenty twenty one, let'stalk about DNA evidence. We're constantly trying
(31:00):
to push and find ways to getevidence that can be tested for DNA,
whether it matches Curtis Don Brown ornot. Our goal is to find out
you know, who the who thekiller was. UM, have you encountered
that in the stories that you've covered, How does DNA evidence play into anything
that you've covered, anything interesting thatyou've encountered along those lines, as you've
(31:23):
been a crime reporter for so long. Yeah, probably. Some of the
more interesting cases are where they've hadDNA and they've they've used it to create
a suspect profile. Um. There'sa place called parabin Labs and they can
actually take if it's a good enoughof a DNA sample, they can take
(31:44):
it and create a sketch of thevictim and that is just fascinating by you
know, the features of the DNA. They're able to say, this is
what the person's facial structure looks like, this is their race, this is
their ICL her hair color. Insome cases, the picture that they have
drawn looks like a drawing of someone'sdriver's license picture. And it has solved
(32:09):
crimes. They have solved multiple casesacross the country. And it's a developing
technology, but it's one that lawenforcement is relying on, especially in cases
where they have a good DNA profileand they don't have a suspect. You
know, it's a way to getyou know, like an artist surrendering of
(32:30):
a suspect, and a lot oftimes they do that and they put it
out in the public in the mediaand people call in because they recognize the
person. That's how accurate it canbe. As we shared in our final
episode last March, Arlington police arestill trying to solve the murder of Terry
McAdams, the UTA student found brutallykilled in her boyfriend's apartment on Valentine's Day
(32:53):
nineteen eighty five. We believe thatbecause Terry and Sarah Costca were found then
days of their murders, their casesmay have the best chance of being solved
through DNA If sufficient evidence was saved, we pray that remaining DNA could be
used to build a suspect rendering likethe one Claire just described. I want
(33:15):
to mention two that a foundation associatedwith the Fort Worth Police Department has been
set up as a way for donorsto help pay for new, more advanced
DNA testing of evidence from Fort Worthcold cases. If you're interested, you
can make a donation online at FWPDCold Cases Support dot org. That's FWPD
(33:37):
for Fort Worth Police Department Cold CaseSupport dot Org. Will include a link
in our show notes. Now,I want to ask you a question about
Final Days. The question I wasgoing to ask you today was about the
(34:01):
cognitive interview that you wanted to conductwith Linda. If you haven't yet listened
to Final Days on Earth, LindaNienhauser was a Colorado hiker who saw the
body of Damien heard from a distancethe day after he went missing from a
late night Collins party in twenty fourteen. As Claire reveals in a bonus episode
(34:23):
that came out last August, LindaNienhauser, who had earlier agreed to undergo
a cognitive interview, unfortunately died ofcancer in January twenty twenty one before that
interview could happen. That is sotrue and it was heartbreaking. So the
idea of a cognitive interview is thatit's not using hypnosis. It's just using
(34:45):
memory aids and techniques that trauma therapistsuse for people to go back in the
recesses of their mind and recall usuallytraumatic events that for the most part,
they really do have a place inyour brain that for your own emotional health
(35:08):
and protection that you block off andtheir ways. There's relaxation exercises that have
been proven to help you access thosememories. And you know, it's often
used with people who have endured trauma. You know, it can be used
with children who have seen something andyou know, it's imprinted on them and
(35:34):
ten years later, five years later, whatever it may be, you know,
they're able to recall it with prettygood you know clarity. And forensic
artists have used it with women andother people who've been attacked and they don't
they think they can't remember anything abouttheir attacker, but they're able to go
(35:54):
back to that place put themselves inthat moment. A lot of it has
to do with um, you know, ye like I said, relaxation and
then also you know, building thatmemory piece by piece, you know,
would you remember what you were wearing, do you remember where you were sitting?
Do you remember you know what timeof day it was? And it
(36:15):
it really does help you, um, to get back to that place and
to to pull up you know,those memories in your mind. And then
there have been you know, provenit is somewhat controversial there of course,
there will always be people that thatum you know, don't support it,
don't believe in it, UM,but it has been used you know,
(36:35):
in in criminal cases and court casesby you know, authorities. Not being
able to conduct a cognitive interview withLynda Nienhauser is a big setback and Claire's
mission to uncover exactly how Damian Hurddied. In her podcast, she talks
about how she has waffled over theyears trying to make sense of a very
(36:55):
strange situation. Given my own feelingabout what happened to Damien, I just
had to ask Claire where she standstoday. So the final question that I
want to ask you about Final Days, I'll be honest, the first two
or three episodes, I kept going, Man, Claire's reaching, Claire's reaching.
This kid just killed himself. Hejust killed himself. Now, I'm
(37:17):
not sure. There's just so muchthere. There's just so much inconsistencies.
I'm just not sure. Is thatwhere you land today? You know,
I really do go back and forthon my theories and what I believe.
You know, The place that Ifeel that I'm in today is we deserve
(37:42):
more answers. His family deserves moreanswers, and it seems to me that
they could be given those answers ifpeople would come forward and talk about the
ID card usage, if they wouldtalk about, you know, if we
could identify who was driving that whitetruck that day at Cabin Creek and who
(38:05):
was using those bicycles. I believethat there could be innocent explanations for all
of it, but we need tohear it. As we ended our conversation,
Claire had a question for us.I was so glad to find your
podcast because it's so well produced andit's such an interesting story and really opened
(38:25):
my eyes to a trend that wasgoing on in DFW that you know,
I had no idea about. Andyou know, I guess was this was
Curtis not Curtis don Brown. Butwere these unsolved cases things that you had
worked on previously in your career andyou had how did you find your topic
(38:49):
for still for season one? Sothat's one of the things that Christina and
I debate about because we can't rememberexactly who first found these cases. I
think it was her, She thinksit was me. Part of it was
also the fact that we grew upin DFW. We were alive when that
was going on. We were livingin the Dallas area, not Fort Worth,
and so we were oblivious to whatwas happening in Fort Worth. So
(39:13):
as she really started diving in,As Christine started diving in and we would
just start talking about it, Ijust kept getting mortified. I kept going,
my god, we were here,we lived through this. How did
I not hear a thing about allof these women being found murdered and missing,
you know, just thirty miles downthe road when I was a junior
(39:34):
and senior in high school. Sothat was the personal connection for me.
I think you kind of felt thesame way, but it just grew into
something that we felt really passionate about. I would say I was those women.
I was those women at that time. I was the same age,
I had the same experiences with college. I went to the same nightclubs,
(40:00):
and I heard about them on thenews at the time, and you thought
about myself and my safety as aresult. So for me it was extremely
personal. Well, Claire, it'sbeen a real pleasure. We thank you
for making the track over to ourneck of the woods, and thank you
(40:22):
so much for being willing to spendyour afternoon with us. So this was
very interesting. Yeah, I enjoyedit. Thanks for having me. So
with season one behind us, manyof you have asked what's next for season
two, we're moving to a differentcold case. Well, actually it's two
(40:45):
cold cases, both of which takeus to the Pacific Northwest. First,
we have a woman who vanished andwas presumably murdered in nineteen seventy six,
and then there is a woman's bodythat was found in the area almost exactly
two years later. Like everyone associatedwith the cases, we're trying to figure
(41:07):
it out. Is this the samewoman? With DNA and modern forensics?
That should be easy, right?What could have happened that has kept those
long awaited answers hidden for so long? Join us January twenty seven for season
two of Still. Anyone with informationpertaining to any of the murders in season
(41:37):
one should contact the Fort Worth PoliceDepartment's Cold Case Unit at cold Case at
fort WORTHPD dot com. Still asa production of The Reporter's Notebook and Grayson
Shaw Media, You can connect withus online at The Reporter's Notebook dot com
(41:59):
or via email at info at theReporter's Notebook dot com. Still was researched,
written and produced by Karen Shaw Anderson. Research was also provided by associate
producer Christine Hughes. Original music bySmith Uoso, I'm Your Host and associate
(42:25):
producer Gary Anderson. Special thanks toClaire Santama, hosting producer of Final Days
on Earth. Like Follow and subscribeto still on your favorite podcast platform and
(42:45):
follow us on Facebook, Twitter,or Instagram to join the conversation. Limitations
three twenty one. Yet I stilldare to hope when I remember this
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