S2 Episode 3: The Setup

The strange details of things that happened in the weeks after Patty vanished leave us with even more questions. Was Ralph being set up for a crime he didn’t commit? Was he intentionally leaving false clues to mislead investigators and even his own family? Was someone else tampering with possible evidence? Did Ralph actually confess? Hang onto this rollercoaster ride as we search for answers.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, this is Sarah Morgan,one of the voices you've heard on STILL.
We hope this story moves you,but more than anything, we pray
someone will come forward to help solvethese tragic cases. Spread the word by
posting about Patricia Otto and the FinlayCreek Jane Doe on social media. You
can find links to their advocacy pagesin our show notes. It's not too
late to help these women. Thetruth is out there, and please take

(00:24):
a moment to rate and review uson your favorite podcast app, which helps
more people learn about these cases.If you'd like to leave us direct feedback,
contact us on Twitter, find uson Facebook, or send an email
to Info at the Reporter's Notebook dotcom. And please, if you know
something, come forward now. Getready for the next episode of Still.

(00:48):
This podcast contains intense subject matter.Listener discretion is advised. At the end
of the last episode, we learnedthat Ralph Otto had paid a hitman to
kill police Captain Duane Ayler, oneof the detectives investigating Ralph for Patty Otto's

(01:11):
disappearance. Ralph reportedly believed Ayler wasalso having an affair with Patty. The
man Ralph paid to kill the policecaptain turned out to be an undercover agent
for the Idaho State Police. Ralphhad believed that the proprietor of Lewiston's Long

(01:37):
Branch Saloon was connected to the mafiaand would know a hitman or two.
Ralph approached him about hiring someone tohave ailer rubbed out, but the proprietor
called Lewiston police to report the incident. Lewiston cops then contacted state police,
who set up a sting operation.This is Ralph's friend on Roadie. It

(02:00):
was just a bad deal the wholetime. You know, the cops harassed
him so bad that they drove him. They kind of frightened him on that
contract that he put out on ailor. Ralph was recorded offering to pay the
undercover cop. Stephen Watts, whodescribed the encounter in an autobiography he wrote
years later, He said Ralph wasone of the most foulmouthed individuals he had

(02:24):
ever met. He said he droppedf bombs every third word during their initial
meeting, all the while declaring thathe was being unfairly harassed by police for
his wife's disappearance. Watt's impression wasthat Ralph had definitely killed Patty, even
though he never actually admitted it.During their taped conversation, Ralph was also

(02:49):
secretly recorded as he followed the instructionsfor paying the fake hitman, placing the
envelope of cash inside a cup ina truck parked outside the Long Branch saloon.
Ralph told Watts that he would takehis daughter's Natalie and Dallas to Disneyland
while the hit was carried out togive himself an alibi. On October twenty

(03:10):
seventh, the day after making apayment to the undercover cop, Ralph called
his friend Bonnie's shopbell and said thathe was planning to take his daughters out
of town. Lewiston police arrested himthat afternoon on a charge of attempted murder.
It was Natalie's fifth birthday. Sheand Dallas now had one parent missing

(03:34):
and the other in jail. Fromthe pages of the reporter's notebook This is

(03:59):
Still Season two, I'm Your Host, Gary Anderson, Ralph's sister in law,

(04:42):
Dodi, shared with us a manuscriptshe wrote about the ordeal her family
went through during this time. Shetitled the nearly two hundred page document Victims
of Human Cruelty. In it,she wrote, Ralph did tell Ray he
knows a guy that knows a guythat would waste a person for about five
hundred dollars. The cash Ralph gavethe cop posing as a hit man was

(05:06):
a two hundred and fifty dollars downpayment. He promised to pay another seven
hundred and fifty dollars once ailer wasdead, even after he previously admitted that
he wanted to kill Randy Benton,the musician who had gone out with Patty
while she and Ralph were separated,and with proof in hand that Ralph also

(05:27):
tried to have a police captain killed, Doughty swore that Ralph was just a
fall guy. When it came toPatty's disappearance, She and Ray hired a
private investigator and placed ads in amoney savers circular in a quest to find
Patty alive and prove Ralph's innocence.Hang down your head, Tom Duly,

(05:48):
Hang down your head. If yourecall from the last episode, we told
you that the day after Patty disappeared, Ralph had started telling his friends and
family that he no longer wanted Pattyto come home. Right to her line,
he said he changed the locks onhis house and the car she left

(06:10):
sitting in the driveway. Stopped herwith my knife. His behavior, though,
told another story. Here's retired detectiveTom Selene talking about a conversation he
had with Ralph on September seventh,six days after Patty vanished. In our
interrogation of him, he was obviouslyextremely The thought not like a guy that

(06:39):
would have a wife to run offon him. It was like a guy
that had done something with her.And then he made comments like I'm I'm
so low, I feel like I'ma snake calling around on the ground,
and then h But he just wouldn'tHe just wouldn't tell us. And that's

(07:02):
the problem with the whole business ofworking faces in the American society. You
know, we want to perfect people'srights, not force them to talk or
not course them in anyway. AndI'm doing that, and once they turney

(07:24):
up, you better have the evidenceto support your conclusions. Patty's sister Alice
told us that when Patty left Ralphin nineteen seventy five, he seemed to
have trouble accepting the end of theirmarriage. She said he did everything he
could to convince Patty to return tohim, staying married to rape. She

(07:46):
did. She kept thinking she tookher marriage very serious, so that's her
place to help him. And thenI think when she finally got you know,
why is it to leave? Iwish it never went back. And
she knew when she went back twomen was wrong, but that he'd went
to that rehab place, and theytold her it was her place as his

(08:07):
wife to go back and help him. And I think within a week she
knew was wrong, that it wasn'tgoing to work out. He's not going
to change unless he wants to change, you know, because she actually finally
got a place to live, shegot a job, and I know he
kept coming around, but it wasn'tit wasn't long enough. Did so you

(08:37):
said he kept coming around. Heso he wanted her back. Do you
think, Oh, yes, yes, he wanted her back. That was
a thing. He didn't leave heralone. In early October of seventy six,
after his wife's disappearance and before hetried to hire a hit man and
landed in jail on a charge ofattempted murder, Ralph again made a point
of telling Ray that he didn't wantPatty back and that he had changed the

(09:01):
locks on the house. He stoppedRay as he was leaving Ralph's house one
day and gave him what he saidwas a new key to the house so
Ray could get inside if he neededto. On October thirtieth, after Ralph
was arrested, Ray's wife, Dody, and the private investigator Jack Primm,
used that key to go into Ralph'shouse and search for evidence to prove that

(09:24):
Patty had planned her disappearance. Dodywent into a bedroom closet, reached into
the pocket of Ralph's suit jacket,and found Patty's wedding rings tucked inside.
Convinced that someone had planted the ringsin Ralph's pocket to make him look guilty,
Dody gave them to Jack Prim,who then gave them to Ralph's lawyer,

(09:46):
Jim Gibbons. The lawyer sealed themin an envelope, which he stashed
in his desk drawer. This isKaren asking Tom Selene about Patty's wedding rings.
First of all, I had readand some of the reports that Ralph
claimed that Patty threw her rings athim during the fight, and that she

(10:09):
took her purse with her when sheleft. Do you recall when he first
said to police. Were told peoplethat about the rings was that after the
rings were found, or before therings were found. After the rings were
found, he never mentioned it untilafter no no, and we never found

(10:30):
those rings either. They were inthe closets and his foot pocket, as
they recall right, a family memberfound them and made the inquiry. Dody
wrote in her manuscript that on Octoberthirty first, she went back to Ralph's
house and saw pieces of ferns onthe living room floor that appeared to have

(10:52):
been tracked inside by someone who hadwalked through a wooded area. Then,
on November first, when the privateinvestigator's wife drove by Ralph's house, she
saw someone inside. She said thelights were on and she saw a figure
move behind the curtains. The backof the Otto's home was illuminated by tall

(11:13):
poles at Sunset Park, which wasdown a steep embankment from the home's back
patio. Missus Prim rushed to Rayand Dodie's house to tell them what she
saw. In a flurry, Dody, Ray and the Prims all drove back
to Ralph's house to look the propertyover again. When they arrived, they

(11:33):
found a key under a doormat.It was an old key, but it
still worked to open the front door. That's when they realized that Ralph had
lied about changing the locks. Theyalso found the ignition key to the station
wagon under a floor mat inside thecar. It still worked, too,

(11:54):
despite Ralph's lies. Doughty told usshe and raised to believed Ralph was being
set up by someone. All ofthe stuff tights together. You guys have
some work to do seriously, soI could say, I just I do
believe that Dayne had our arch detectivein most of us her sugar daddy and

(12:16):
I graduated with Dwayne, and Iknow, I know his record. I
think I think that we broke upthe mafia ring in this city, you
know, because they're just wanted toshut us down so bad that everywhere we
went through his cuffs on our tail. They told my husband, who worked

(12:37):
for the guard, that hed betterwatched out what he was doing because he
made his job. That didn't stopus. Inside Ralph's house in November nineteen
seventy six, Dodie said it appearedthat some of the furniture was a skew
and a candle had been moved.Dodie also told us an empty cigarette package
was on the ground, and akey for a Portland, Oregon hotel room

(12:58):
was on the floor of the basement, next to a chess style freezer.
She swears the key wasn't there whenshe and the private investigator searched the house
before for the second time that day, Ralph's family called police to the house
to take a report. Dody wrotein her notes quote Ralph had told us

(13:20):
Patty had been very interested in asixty minutes television program titled How to Change
One's Identity. Dodie gave us acigarette package she said was just like the
one she found on the floor ofRalph's house. She said the one she
gave us was found later by JackPrimm in her front yard. She believes

(13:41):
they were left by the same person. She said. A police officer kept
the mysterious hotel key as evidence.Selene didn't mention a hotel key in his
report. He noted, however,that the locks to the house and car
did not appear to have been changed, as Ralph had claimed. I want

(14:03):
to point out here that a lotof the information we have learned about this
case came from copies of police reportswe've obtained but current Lewiston police officials have
not talked to us on the recordabout Patty's case. I'm dat I want
her pace close. I have mymom, my mom's sister, and my

(14:24):
uncle with me, my cousin,and then I have an equal case reporter
with me my mom's sister. Inthe summer of twenty twenty one, we
sat in on a meeting with Patty'sfamily and two Lewiston Police officers, but
police didn't permit us to record themeeting. I want to charge des action

(14:48):
today. Captains. Now, he'sone of the media, so this is
not a year I have. That'sliterally the chiefest abnegation and all of our
captains throughout that. We followed upwith multiple emails and phone calls, but

(15:11):
a police spokesman has yet to respond. There is some interesting background that could
explain why the department was hesitant totalk about this case in particular. We'll
get to that thread in a laterepisode. Now back to what was happening

(15:33):
at Ralph's place. In early Novembernineteen seventy six, Ray and Dodi began
hunkering down there and writing down licenseplate numbers of every unfamiliar car that drove
by Their stakeout, which they documentedin extreme detail, went on for days.

(15:58):
During that time, he said,people were repeatedly calling Ralph's house and
either hanging up or asking for someonewho didn't live there. Ray and Dodi
also started feeling responses to an adthey placed in the local money saver seeking
information about Patty's whereabouts. Then itseemed like police got a break in the

(16:19):
case on November second, when theywere alerted that a check written to Patty
by her sister had been cashed ata Portland, Oregon bank, more than
three hundred miles from Lewiston. Policenoted that the check was processed after Patty's
last known sighting, but there's norecord of who actually cashed the check.

(16:41):
Their hope of a valuable lead simplyevaporated. Around this same time, Dodie
and Ray went to a pawn shopand purchased a pistol for protection. Dodie
said they had started receiving threats tostop their search for Patty. She said
Jack prem the private investigator, toldher that Patty had gotten involved in organized

(17:03):
crime. It blows your mind tothink the people you trust, you know
and look forward to helping you outand they're doing all this stuff. It's
just unbelievable. It's like, Idon't believe anything's happening. Yeah, I
think some of her are involved withthe MOBI are. Yeah, it was.
I mean, I think we hadattorneys and cops and everything around here.

(17:30):
We just kind of broke it up. Nobody's around here anymore. They're
all moved. They're gone except forThomas Lane, and I think he knows
something myself, I really do.By this point, in November nineteen seventy
six, Lewiston Police Captain Duane Aylorhad stepped back from any involvement in the

(17:52):
Patty Otto investigation as law enforcement andprosecutors mounted their case against Ralph for hiring
a hitman to kill Ayler. Butevidence against Ralph for Patty's murder was sketchy
at best, and Ralph's closest allieswere remaining tight lipped if they knew anything
that would incriminate him. It's notdirectly related to this case, but it's

(18:23):
worth mentioning that on November seventh,a woman came forward to Lewiston Police to
say that Ralph had raped her innineteen seventy The woman said he was quote
all the while laughing like a crazyperson. The woman knew Ralph because her
brother was married to Marcy Otto,Ralph's sister. She told police she had

(18:45):
previously told Ralph's mother about the rape, and missus Otto reportedly attributed the assault
to Ralph's jealousy of his brother inlaw. A few weeks after that woman
told police about the rape, Sleencontact that Ralph's first wife, Joy to
learn more about his history of domesticabuse. In previous interviews with police,

(19:07):
Ralph had admitted that he had noqualms about hitting a woman and had once
knocked Joy unconscious during a fight.When Celine called her, Joy said she
only remembered Ralph hitting her once,and she characterized it in milder terms than
Ralph himself used to describe the incident. Patty's family said they had never seen

(19:29):
Ralph hit Patty, but they hadseen bruces on her face and neck that
Patty said had been inflicted by Ralph. Bonnie Shopbell, the woman Ralph was
spending time with in the days surroundingPatty's disappearance, told us that Ralph was
uncomfortably pushy and seemed to believe theirrelationship was more serious than she did.

(19:49):
She also told us that when hedrank too much, he talked crazy.
We think she's specifically referring to aconversation she and Ralph had in December of
nineteen seventy six. He called Bonnielate one night and started rambling with alarming
details about the night Patty vanished.On November seventeenth, Ralph was released from

(20:37):
jail while awaiting trial for the attemptedmurder of Duane Ayler. His family had
sworn to a judge that they wouldforfeit their houses if Ralph didn't show up
for trial. The property bond totaledone hundred and fifty thousand dollars. While
he was out on bond, Ralphbought Bonnie and her five children tickets so

(21:00):
they could fly back from California tovisit their family and friends for the Christmas
holiday. On December twenty eighth,Ralph went over to have dinner with Bonnie's
parents, Helen and Wayne Bartlett.They lived in a soutan Washington, across
the river from Lewiston. During dinner, Ralph appeared physically ill and said he

(21:21):
needed to go home. As hewas leaving, he complained that he was
having a problem with his truck.He said some kind of wire was stuck
in the wheels. Puzzled, Bonnie'sdad looked the truck over and saw no
trace of the wire Ralph was describing. It seemed to Wayne that Ralph was
hallucinating. Ralph then climbed into histruck and drove home. Later that evening,

(21:47):
while Bonnie was at her cousin's house, Ralph called there to talk with
her. Selene called Bonnie later toask what Ralph had told her that night.
This is a portion of his reportabout what Bonnie told the shop Bell
indicated that in a normal or whatappeared to be a normal sounding voice from
Ralph, he made the remark thatPatty's body had been found. Shopbell inquired

(22:11):
as to where, and Ralph indicatedthat it was found between the shop and
the house. Shopbell advised that sheconsidered this hallucinations. Shopbell advised that Ralph
made the remark that Patty had comeafter him with a gun, so he
stabbed her. Shop Bell indicated thatRalph had also spoken with Shirley two Shop

(22:32):
and had told her to be sureto get Bonnie out of town, or
else they would hang both he andBonnie I inquired from Bonnie if she had
been at Ralph's house, and sheadvised she had and that she knew perfectly
well that Ralph was bothered with something. She advised he talked about Patty's disappearance,
but had not said anything concerning herwhereabouts until the telephone conversation. On

(22:56):
the evening of December twenty eighth.After her late night conversation with Ralph,
Bonnie called his brother Ray to tellhim what Ralph had told her. Ray
asked her to keep quiet about it. That same night, Ray went and
got Ralph and drove him to amental hospital in Orthino, Idaho, about
an hour east of Lewistown. Here'sTom Selene. Well, let's just put

(23:19):
it this way. My opinion wasthat Ralph had killed her, either premeditated,
with a foe thought, or ina heat of rage. We don't
know. All we know is that, in my opinion, he had killed

(23:41):
her and then had by himself orwhat assistance, had disposed of her remains.
And he never gave us any information. But we do know that he
at times at a loose nations thanhis brother took him out of town.

(24:04):
We believed so he wouldn't have accessor we would not have access to him.
When Selene interviewed Bonnie, he askedher about the nature of her relationship
with Ralph. She indicated that ithad been years since they had been intimate,
although she did spend the night withRalph on December seventeenth, the day
she arrived in town for the holidays. Bonnie also said that Ralph had been

(24:29):
very generous to her over the years. He had given her approximately three thousand
dollars in cash. That last Christmas, while he was out on bond,
he had lavished her whole family,including her parents, with expensive gifts.
He also started telling Natalie in Dallasthat Bonnie was their new mom. Bonnie

(24:51):
said she made it clear to himthat she was not going to step into
that role. She said that afterRalph rambled on the phone that night about
killing Pa Pattie, he asked Bonnieto call his lawyer. Here's more from
Selene's report. Bonnie shop Bell didmake the remark that Ralph said that Patty's
not never coming back. I askedBonnie if Ralph had made any remarks concerning

(25:17):
what had been done with Patty,and Bonnie indicated she could only speculate that
Patty would have been taken to theranch of Ralph's in Weipe. I asked
Bonnie how she could speculate this,and she advised it several years ago when
she was going with Ralph, thatthey had been on the ranch in the
Weeipe area where there are numerous stumpspulled from the soil. Ralph made the

(25:38):
remark at this time that if hewas ever going to get rid of anyone,
he would bury them in one ofthese holes. Weipe is a small
town in Clearwater County, Idaho,about seventy miles east of Lewistown. Ralph
lived there for a few years asa child before his family moved to Lewistown.

(25:59):
As an adult, he reportedly boughtor inherited some acreage from relatives.
He was an old time cowboy,don't you understand. Ralph kept a herd
of cattle on the land for awhile, and he sometimes took women to
the property to show it off.It fit well with the cowboy image Ralph
tried to cultivate. He often worewestern clothes and cowboy boots. I knew

(26:23):
I had to ask him about themysteries of life. He spit between his
boots, and he replied, it'sfast the horses yonder women order whiskey more
money. The property was only amile or so from where a petite but
feisty woman lived. We'll refer tothis woman as Eve, but that's not

(26:48):
her real name. Eve was marriedand had kids at home. This is
her ex husband talking well at thattime. At that time, Uh,
she was going out on me whileI was working in things, and and

(27:08):
uh screwed around with other men,and and she got tangled up with mister
Ralph and uh and all I know, all I know is uh they had
some real uh time together while Iwas working on one thing another and and

(27:29):
uh, of course the last thelast child that was born and my home
was was her name is Patty andthat and it ain't my child, it's
his. So many things went onthen that you know. I but uh
yeah, but she was having uhawful close get togethers with that guy at

(27:53):
that time. And it just happenedto be the the same time that uh
Ralph Potto's wife come up missing.We don't have any proof that he's youngest
child was fathered by Ralph. Infact, we've learned that a recent DNA
test indicates that he wasn't her father. Well, they were having get together.

(28:15):
I was, I was working nightshifts, saying, gee, she
had half the night to mess aroundwith. I'd come home eleven o'clock a
night from working and uh, theywere still a cigarette smoking the house and
everything. And of course he wasgone then, you know. But yeah,
like I said, I do knowthat the that they were, uh

(28:41):
have an affair. I'm sure ofthat they was having an affair. Uh,
But at that time, like Isaid, at the same time that
that Ralph's wife disappeared, we couldrush this off as mere speculation again.

(29:03):
But in October of nineteen seventy eight, a prosecutor from Clearwater County contacted Lewiston
Police. Clearwater officials had executed asearch warrant on Eve's house and discovered a
diary with notes about Eve's relationship withRalph Otto and a stack of letters exchanged

(29:26):
between the lovers. Police were searchingthe property after Eve and her husband had
had a serious disagreement there months earlier. During the argument, Eve went into
the house and fetched a gun andshot her husband between the eyes. We

(29:48):
are not naming him or using herreal name to protect her ex husband's identity.
Do you think she was trying tokill you? Boy? Thank god
they do one or two more bulletside of the side of the door casing
there. Oh my goodness, sheshuck. She's fired more than once.

(30:11):
The bullet that struck the man wentthrough the bridge of his nose, pierced
his left eye, and lodged inhis skull. Eve was charged with assault
with the deadly weapon. He's grandsonhad heard stories about his grandmother's past,
but as he visited her on herproperty throughout his childhood, he chalked those

(30:32):
stories up to tall tales. Overthe years growing up, I mean,
it was always kind of a likea family thing that my grandma had a
dark history, a dark side toher period, that you know, she
could do bad things and everything Ithought. I thought it was all made
up to scare at grandkids for messingaround at grandma's house. So I thought

(30:55):
none of it was real. Althoughyears everything that we'd heard or I mean
anything just I always thought it wasa wee would behave while we were at
Grandmas. I got older and kindof dug into stuff and started adding things
together. I was like, thisis actually a real thing, Like the
these situations that my grandma herself usedto kind of joke about and play along

(31:21):
with were actually real, live events. And I think it's really I think
it's sick now that I've learned thateverything was true, that those things I
thought was fake were real. It'sjust really sickening to know that she stood
there and joked about it with children. What I need to fill you in

(31:42):
on here is that in early summernineteen seventy seven, Ralph did go to
trial for the attempted murder of Lewisand police Captain Dwayne Ayler. He was
convicted by a jury and sentenced toten years in state prison. As police
continued searching for Patty, Ralph's lawyerfiled an appeal. Exactly a year to

(32:05):
the day after Patty vanished. Ralphwas released on bond pending the outcome of
the appeal. His first day home, Ralph went on a bender and remained
drunk for months. Meanwhile, Doughtiecontinued documenting Ralph's behavior and her own personal
crises. She wrote that on NewYear's Day of nineteen seventy eight, Ralph

(32:32):
threatened to kill her if she everused anything he told her against him.
Then she said he attempted to seduceher. On January third, Doughtie wrote,
quote, he was trying to getme to submit to him sexually so
I would look bad and raise eyes. I let Ralph know that if I

(32:52):
found one piece of evidence he killedPatty, the mother of his children,
I would turn him in. Heis crazy and boy does he need help.
Worried that Ralph's drinking and erratic behaviorwas going to do something to jeopardize
the property bond they put up forhim, his family tried to convince him

(33:12):
to seek alcohol treatment. On Marchtwenty ninth, Ray took his brother to
a detox center in Washington and starteddiscussing arrangements to take into another facility for
intensive treatment. While the family wasplanning their next move, Ralph crawled out
the window of the detox facility andhiked home. On April second, Ray

(33:34):
and Ralph flew to Seattle to checkRalph into another treatment center. His stay
there lasted less than two weeks.On April thirteenth, he walked out the
front door of the facility. Hecalled his family from a cousin's house and
said the treatment wasn't working out.A few days later, he had a
ride to a Seattle airport, sayinghe was going home to Lewiston, but

(33:58):
he didn't arrive back in Idaho.The Auto family was now in full panic.
Later they learned that while Ralph wasa wall he met up with Eve
and the two may have taken atrip to Las Vegas. Then, without
explanation, Ralph returned home on Apriltwenty second. The next day, he

(34:21):
was arrested for d WI. Hisfamily didn't bail him out this time,
and Ralph was sent back to stateprison in Boise. It was about three
months after Ralph went back to jailthat Eve shot her husband in the face.
Another detail you need to know isthat Ralph owned a camper which was

(34:42):
fitted onto the back of a heavyduty Ford pickup. Throughout most of the
seventies, it was parked outside Ralphand Patty's home on twenty ninth Street.
Doughty believes Patty hid inside the camperafter she and Ralph fought that night,
and then walked away from home afterthe sun rose was the next morning.
Dodie believes that while Patty was walkingaround town, someone picked her up.

(35:07):
Sometime after Patty's disappearance, Ralph parkedthe camper and an RV storage lot owned
by Ray and Dody. Then beforeRalph went back to jail in nineteen seventy
eight, Ralph gave the camper andanother vehicle to Eve. To this day,
the camper still sits on Eve's propertyin Wei. Her grandson described it

(35:29):
to us. Yeah, it's likea nineteen like nineteen fifty eight to nineteen
sixty one somewhere in there. It'sgot four headlights, got two headlights on
each side. It's like a reddishorange color, and the camper part of
it is white with like a redor orange devin on the side. The

(35:53):
RV part that's on it is actuallyan old camper put onto a pick up
strame, so it's completely home.So yeah, what did Yeah, my
grandma's always had a serious attachment tothat thing. She won't sell it,
she won't give it to nobody.I mean when I started hunting when I
was a young teen, I askedmy grandma to give it to me.

(36:13):
That's how I heard Ralph's name,and she always told me absolutely not,
absolutely not that thing that's mine.You know. Oh, she's just always
weirdly weird. When he's grandson firstheard her mention Ralph, he didn't know
who Ralph Otto was or that hiswife had disappeared. I remember bringing up

(36:35):
Ralph's name, but I didn't knowthat they were like partners or boyfriend girlfriend
or anything. Because when I wasa kid, you know, especially in
my teens, I was into vehiclesand cars and all kinds of stuff.
So I used to ask her aboutthe motor home blah blah blah blah,
and she just mentioned Ralph that that'swho she got it from. He told
us that his mother, he's secondoldest child, remembers playing with that Alas

(37:00):
and Natalie when they were babies.My grandma used to because Ralph's property.
Ralph had property right down the roadfrom my grandma Wi. My grandma used
to watch the two girls, Dallasand Natalie, babysit him and whatnot,
and they actually stayed there for anentire summer one with my grandma. Ralph

(37:20):
will come and go. He wouldhelp him on the farm. She would
go over there and help him,you know, just back and forth.
Supposally they were just friends. Well, my mom said that as a as
a younger girl, she remembers goingdown to Lewiston and with Ben and stop
him by Ralph's house, and thenralphs and go in the back bedroom for

(37:42):
x amount of time while my momwas sitting there on the floor playing with
Dallas and Natalie as they were babies, and then she would remember Grandma coming
back out. Ralph was a busyman next time on still and my mom

(38:04):
just looked at me and she said, I know where she is, and
what are you talking about? Orshe told me, she said, you
swear you would never say a wordto anybody about this until after awargain.
Anyone with information pertaining to the disappearanceof Patricia Otto should contact the Lewiston Police

(38:30):
Department's tipline at two zero eight twonine eight three nine three nine. Anyone
with information pertaining to the identity ofthe Finland Creek Jane Doe, or other
information related to that case should contactthe Union County District Attorney at DA at
Union hyphen County dot org. Ifyou, or anyone you know is a

(38:52):
victim of domestic abuse, please contactthe National Domestic Violence Hotline at eight hundred
seven nine nine. Safe Still isa production of the reporter's Notebook and Grayson
Shaw Media. You can connect withus online at the Reporter's Notebook dot com

(39:14):
or via email at info at theReporter's Notebook dot com. STILL was researched,
written and produced by Karen Shaw Anderson. Additional research in script editing provided
by Christine Hughes. Original music bySmith Uosso. Additional narration provided by b

(39:36):
J. Blackburn. I'm your hostand associate producer Gary Anderson. Special thanks
to everyone who graciously provided interviews andhelp with our research. We would specifically
like to thank the advocates for PatriciaOtto and the Finlay Creek Jindoe Task Force.

(39:57):
Like Follow and subscribe to STILL onyour favorite podcast platform, and follow
us on Facebook or Twitter to jointhe conversation. Ezekiel thirty four sixteen.
I will seek the lost, andI will bring back the strayed, and
I will bind up the injured,and I will strengthen the weak.