S2 Episode 6: The Hunt

As a second search dog comes on the scene to hunt for missing pieces of the Jane Doe’s skeleton, we learn more about Suzanne’s quest to discover what happened to her mother, and we discuss what became of her father, Ralph Otto. Has the trail for Patty Otto gone cold, or did the torch Suzanne took up shed new light on a seemingly unsolvable crime?

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, this is Sarah Morgan,one of the voices you've heard on Still.
We hope this story moves you,but more than anything, we pray
someone will come forward to help solvethese tragic cases. Spread the word by
posting about Patricia Otto and the FinlayCreek Jane Doe on social media. You
can find links to their advocacy pagesin our show notes. It's not too
late to help these women. Thetruth is out there. And please take

(00:24):
a moment to rate and review uson your favorite podcast app, which helps
more people learn about these cases.If you'd like to leave us direct feedback,
contact us on Twitter, find uson Facebook, or send an email
to Info at the Reporter's Notebook dotcom. And please, if you know
something, come forward now. Getready for the next episode of Still.

(00:48):
This podcast contains intense subject matter.Listener discretion is advised. My dad,
while he was in prison, triedto keep really busy, so he used

(01:11):
his hands to make things. Hemade a grandfather clock, and he made
these very impressive dollhouses. So heoriginally sent the first dollhouse, and we
were so impressed with this house.It's huge, it's this tall and this
wide, and I can stand onit right now. It's so strong,
it's heavy, it's amazing. Andall these little people, a whole little

(01:34):
family, and we thought this wasthe coolest house to ever. And then
he told us, I'm building aneven better house than this house. You
girls are going to be so amazed. In between them made me a leather
vest with my name Dallas on it, a purse with my name, Dallas,
leather purse, all these little nicethings. And then the dollhouse came

(01:57):
in. This massive dollhouse has electricityin it, the lights light up.
It's everything's handmade, all these woodenpieces of it's impressive. You still have
it, of course I have it. Suzanne Tims, who of course used
to be Dallas Auto, took usto the garage to see the dollhouse.

(02:21):
The massive structure would dwarf any ofBarbie and Kin's mansions. It has two
full stories with dormers on the woodshingled roof and an attic that opens up
to reveal more rooms On the thirdlevel. A bay window and covered porch
welcomed tiny visitors, and the windowsare adorned with shutters and curtains. Like

(02:42):
all of the stuff. He madeit all by hand. Every piece of
furniture is tacked and made would furnitureby hand. All the little drawers in
prisons, and all the little drawersopen. Oh my god, it's right
there. So it's three full stories. Just this is a clear piano.

(03:05):
Wow, it is let's see.Let see one. It's crazy. It's
playing that same song. This seeis different. The tiny player piano was

(03:32):
a perfect replica of the one Suzanneremembers near the front door of the house
on twenty ninth Street. I've heardsongs that have played off that piano before
where you're like, I'm right backin the house. So I try to
analyze everything. But we loved ourdollhouses, and we spent so many hours

(03:57):
playing perfect family in the dollhouse.And at no point did anybody die in
my dollhouse. From the pages ofthe Reporter's notebook, this is still season

(04:31):
two. I'm your host, GaryAnderson. At the end of the last

(05:11):
episode, retired Union County, OregonDistrict Attorney Dale Mammon asked us what happened
to Pattiotto's husband, Ralph. Thisis as good a time as any to
fill you in on that. Inour minds, it helps explain why in
the Lewiston Police Department is hesitant totalk with us on the record. In

(05:40):
nineteen eighty one, Ralph's attorney successfullypetitioned the Idaho Supreme Court to review his
murder for higher conviction. His lawyerhad been arguing that Ralph's dependence on alcohol
made him incapable of fully understanding whathe was doing when he paid the undercover
cop to kill Lewiston police Captain Dailor. His attorney said it was entrapment for

(06:03):
the officer to meet with Ralph todiscuss an assassination, and then to accept
payment for the hit. But asfar as the court was concerned, the
issue wasn't whether Ralph was culpable forthe crime, it was the statute under
which he was charged and convicted.The court ended up splitting its decision,

(06:25):
voting three to two that hiring ahitman did not qualify as attempted murder.
Instead, the court wrote in itsdecision that Ralph was guilty of mere solicitation.
He was released from prison seven yearsbefore his sentence would have ended,
and he returned to Lewiston, stillproclaiming that the cops in his town were

(06:46):
crooked and had railroaded him. Hestarted making plans to sue the police.
It's probably fair to say that mostofficers in Lewiston were also still angry with
Ralph for trying to have one oftheir own killed. I imagined that they
were particularly resentful that his conviction wasoverturned. All this was simmering beneath the

(07:12):
surface when Lewiston cops came to hisdoor at nine pm September seventh, nineteen
eighty three to arrest Ralph for theft. He had been charged with stealing a
chainsaw in nearby Clearwater County, anda judge there issued a bench warrant when
he failed to appear in court.Police reports say that Ralph was severely intoxicated

(07:34):
when he was picked up, andthe arresting officers had to help him walk
to the police cruiser. When hewas booked into jail in Lewiston at eleven
twenty pm, the report indicates Ralphwas so intoxicated he was unable to sign
the inventory acknowledgement for his belongings.Over the next few hours, various agencies

(07:58):
took custody of Ralph. He wasfirst handed over to nez Perce County's Sheriff's
deputies, who then passed him onto Clearwater County deputies. The paperwork processing
and custody transfers took time, andit was almost four am before he made
it inside the jail in Orofino.Ralph's family believes that the amount of time

(08:18):
it took for him to be bookedinto the Lewis In jail indicates that police
there used the opportunity to try tocoerce a confession from him about killing his
wife. In the shower room atthe Orofino Jail, Clearwater County staff saw
grotesque injuries on his right ankle andfoot. The skin had almost completely separated

(08:43):
and was falling off. The jailerscalled for help, but Ralph lost consciousness
before paramedics arrived. He stopped breathing. Officers in. Paramedics tried to resuscitate
him and rushed him to a nearbyhospital. Medical personnel at the hospital worked

(09:03):
for nearly two hours trying to revivethem. Ralph was pronounced dead at seven
fifty four am, September eight,nineteen eighty three. Yeah, so we
were told that he had a heartattack and that he died in the shower,

(09:26):
but he's forty two. So,like I said, when we got
old enough, Natalie wanted to knowwhat happened, so she requested the autopsy,
and we got the photos. Ihave them, I can show them
to you. It's not a heartattack. There's something not normal. And
it's very obvious by the photos thatthere's something not normal. You don't deglove

(09:50):
your foot, which means all theskin removes and it turns inside out from
a heart attack, and you don'thave patches of skin missing from a heart
heart attack. I do wonder,though, if the degloving of sport because
he was binding it doing something too. I think he twisted his ankle and

(10:13):
he called and said I cast atit and got it stuck in something.
He hurt his ankle that night.It's so obvious that he hurt it that
night. He tries to cast it. He calls his brother, I hurt
my foot. Ray says, goto the doctor tomorrow, do something.
But he's so stubborn and he's sosmart. He's going to make his own
cast and make his own brace.And he got his foot stuck in some

(10:35):
kind of plaster, And that couldexplain that one, because he was binding
it, so it wouldn't hurt,and he was cutting off the circulation,
so it wouldn't hurt. That coulddefinitely explain the degloving, but it doesn't
explain all the other marks on hisbody. The medical examiner concluded that Ralph
did die of a heart attack andthat alcoholic liver disease was a contributing factor.

(10:58):
There was no ready explanation for theskin lost on his right foot and
ankle. In their notes of theincident, Sheriff's deputies wondered if Ralph's wounds
could have been caused by a chemicalburn or steam. As you heard from
Suzanne, Ralph had been binding hisfoot and ankle because of the pain he

(11:18):
was having. What was causing thepain. We know that he complained to
his brother about hurting his ankle backon September fifth, nineteen seventy six,
but we're not sure if it wasthe same ankle that had the severe wound
when he died. Dodie also wrotein her manuscript that in nineteen seventy seven,

(11:39):
Ralph tried to make a cast forhis foot and ankle. He soon
realized the cast was too tight,so he tried to soak it to soften
it. The cast swelled, increasingthe pressure and tightness on his foot.
He then called Ray for help,but Ray wasn't available that day. We're
not sure how that issue was eventuallyresolved, or again, if the injury

(12:03):
he was treating was related to theankle he injured the previous year. Clearwater
officials said Ray told them that Ralphwould often bind his foot tight enough to
stop the circulation because of the severepain he was having. We're not doctors,
but it does sound like Ralph's heartdisease, severe foot pain, and

(12:24):
self treatment could all be connected.Our amateur research into heart conditions did provide
a plausible explanation. Most of theinjuries on his body appeared to be arterial
ulcers, which are incredibly painful soreswith a punched out appearance. They're caused
by heart disease and poor circulation,and they're prone to appear on the lower

(12:46):
extremities. If untreated, they canlead to death of the affected body tissue,
also known as gangrene. If you'reinterested in seeing what we found,
google arterial ulser. If any doctorsare listening, feel free to correct us
or offer a counterpoint. We woulddefinitely be interested in hearing an expert's opinion.

(13:11):
We also want to remind you thatRalph's father died of a heart attack
when he was only thirty nine,so it doesn't seem out of the realm
of possibility that Ralph could meet thesame fate at a young age. Now,
I don't want to give the impressionthat we're taking Ralph's death lightly.

(13:35):
No matter what our opinions are abouthis guilt or innocence, he still had
rights, and family members earnestly believedthat Ralph had been the victim of police
brutality. Worst of all, Natalieand Suzanne had lost another parent. It

(13:56):
was devastating for them. Suzanne's oldersister, Natalie, spent years trying to
discover what happened to both her parents. She gathered binders full of police and
newspaper reports related to her mother's disappearanceand her father's death so we could look

(14:16):
and see what happened. Why doesone family think one thing and family think
another thing? And you read throughit, and the more that I read
through it, the more that Iprobably ten pages in was telling my sister
my father's guilty. There's nobody elsethan him who knows what happened. To
her mother and I know what Isaw was real, This is real.

(14:41):
My sister didn't want to believe that. She wanted to believe that that our
dad was this loving, wonderful personwho had never hurt her or us.
So she tried to prove by goingthrough this that they missed things, that
they over things, that there wasleads that they could have looked into.
That you know that our mom leftand she was in the process of years

(15:07):
she had actually reached out Tidaho StatePatrol and was trying to sue the State
of Idaho saying this is so wronglydone and there's so much injustice in this
case. She spent years, years, years on the case. Now,
I wanted to prove that the policehad tortured him to get answers about where
my mother was located at. Andobviously the police deny any involvement. And

(15:31):
they say that he was drunk whenthey picked him up and he fell.
He drunk. He was drunk andhe fell and he hurt himself. But
his blood alcohol is point one onthe autopsy. I believe that is not
intoxicated. By now, you've probablywondered why you haven't heard from Natalie Suzanne's

(16:15):
older sister. In two thousand andsix, another tragedy struck Natalie. Her
husband, son, and a friendof her sons were all overcome by carbon

(16:37):
monoxide during a Memorial Day weekend boatouting. When the boat was found,
it appeared the group had taken shelterfrom the cool weather under a storage tarp
snapped onto the boat's exterior. Theboat's engine and a propane heater produced carbon

(16:57):
monoxide fumes which couldn't dissipate under theboat cover. Susanne had lost another lifeline.
And there was a time when atour house we got our own bedrooms
for the first time in all thoseyears, and I think we were seventeen

(17:18):
or eighteen, and I used tosneak back into her room. I literally
could not sleep without her. AndI'm like, I'm the most pathetic seventeen
year old ever. I have tohave my sister. But we would just
sit and talk, just like wehad always done. Then she would comfort
me and encourage me. She wasa mother and a father and a best

(17:45):
friend all in one. The clearestcourse forward to Susanne was to pick up
the torch Natalie had been caring andtry to find justice. For her mom
and hopefully finally bring her home,which brings us to the summer of twenty

(18:11):
twenty one, when she scrolled throughFacebook and saw a drawing of a woman
who looked eerily familiar. So Ireach out to Redgrave Research, who did
the three D friend a drawing,and I send them a picture of my
mother and me side by side,and I said, how did you draw
this photo? It looks like youdrew my mother and I had a baby

(18:33):
together because it's her and I together. And I thought, I'm going to
wait for months to hear back fromthis guy, because he's back east somewhere.
I'm going to wait for months.Within hours, Anthony got back to
me, and I thought that wasa good sign that Anthony got back to
me so quickly. And I reachout to the Cold Keith team, who's

(18:56):
on this Facebook page, who actuallyis the one that created the page to
get this going? And I realizedsince twenty eighteen, they have been trying
to give this Jane Doe a name. The Thinly Creek team is headed by

(19:22):
volunteer investigators Jason Fudge and Melinda Jetterburgh. You heard Melinda's voice at the Jane
Doe site in the last episode.So I'm messaging mel, Hey, melt
you found a body. I'm missinga body. Let's talk right. This

(19:42):
is my mom. She's five foot, three hundred and thirty pounds, Caucasian
female with blonde hair. Last seeingwear red pants in a white shirt,
and you have a body matching that. And they told us in nineteen seventy
eight it wasn't my mom. Iliterally have a paper right here that says
it's not her. What Daniel recordsdid they use? How do they compare

(20:04):
her? How do I know it'snot her? As we said in the
last episode. In nineteen ninety,the Finlay Creek Jandoe case was labeled as
unsolvable and was closed. The Jando'sremains were cremated and all the associated evidence
was destroyed. The cremains were thenlost, wiping out hopes of finding a

(20:26):
DNA match. Melinda, who manycall mel, spent months in the early
part of the pandemic chasing down leadsto try to find out what happened to
those cremains. She ran into deadend after dead end. The funeral home
where the Jando had been sent hadchanged ownership and the previous owner had passed

(20:48):
away. The new owner couldn't findany records of the remains. Then Mel
had a conversation with an Idaho detectiveabout an unrelated When she mentioned her frustration
with this case, the detective suggestedshe checked with the coroner's office in Walla
Walla, Washington, which in nineteenninety was the closest community with a crematorium.

(21:14):
I never thought to do that becauseI just assumed she was at the
funeral home. And then there wasanother conversation. He said, yeah,
get hold of the docent at theWalla Walla corner's office because they keep really
good records. I was like,oh, okay, I guess I can
do that. And then I hadalso talked to the City of Walla Walla,
a representative of the City of WallaWalla, and he had said the

(21:36):
same thing. They're like, getold of the coroner's office. So I
get a hold of Richard Greenwood.I emailed him, and I had to
email him a couple of times becauseagain, you know, we had this
whole pandemic thing going on. Andthen he said so that's when he said,
so I found this bag of remains. They look kind of old,

(21:57):
and they have half a sticker onthe from the funeral home that she was
sent to, and I just wentThe cremains the corner found were labeled as
a John Doe, not a JaneDoe, and the location noted on the
file of where the unidentified remains werefirst found didn't match. But the case

(22:18):
number written on the side of apiece of paper did match the finlay crete
Jane Doe, so did the nameof the investigator assigned to the case.
Feeling hopeful, Mel contacted the OregonState forensic anthropologist, who then coordinated with
Washington State to see what could bedone with the remains. The first task

(22:41):
for forensic DNA analysts is to seeif any genetic material can be extracted from
the remains. Despite advancements in testing, it's difficult to extract DNA from cremated
bones because extreme heat destroys the organicmaterial. The remains were sent to a
Canadian lab in late August of twentytwenty one in an attempt to get answers.

(23:06):
Kathy Taylor, a forensic anthropologist inWashington State, was invaluable in facilitating
the transfer of the remains. Theteam was crushed to learn in August that
she passed away before the results wereavailable. We were at Suzanne's house when

(23:30):
the news was delivered about her death, so Richard Greenwood and the coroner and
I have been communicating with doctor Taylor, who is an outstanding anthropologist similar to
doctor Vance in the state of Oregon, and I knew she hadn't been feeling

(23:51):
well. So I'm absolutely shocked too. I have. She's a young I
mean a young lady. She's totallydedicated to the state of Washington and defining
unidentified and like she is the boneexpert. She carries her phone with her
when she's on vacation and they willtext her all the time with random bones
and she's incredible, it says doctorKathy Taylor says. She passed away on

(24:12):
August first, and it says herwork also served as a critical link in
solving criminal investigations, including the GreenRiver Killer murders. She's phenomenal. She
identified the youngest Green River Killer victimand she was super responsive. Another blow

(24:45):
came in December when the lab saidthere was no usable DNA in the cremains,
but the team is undeterred. Theyknow that Suzanne's best shot of getting
DNA for comparison with the Jane Doeto herself is in finding undiscovered bone left

(25:06):
behind on the hillside where investigators combedfor remains in nineteen seventy eight. So
but yeah, this is this isthe area right in here. So yeah,
and I mean, you know,you look at that tree right there.
It's it's probably only thirty years old, if even that. So,

(25:33):
yeah, there's a lot of growthin here because this was a lot more
open. There was a lot morewell you can imagine because it hasn't been
touched in forty years. I haven'tbeen in here and logged. It doesn't
look like so there is a lotmore ground cover at the time, or
was it a lot more? Therewas a lot more scrub a lot more
scrub brush um, and more ofthese grasses and ferns. I think I

(26:00):
remember ferns. Rob Parr's memory wasaccurate. It matched the crime scene photos
Mail received when she got copies ofthe Jane Doe case file. It's like
he was looking at pictures that Ihad already seen. So it was,
but he's not describing pictures that heseemed no describing ye memory of he said,

(26:22):
because I had always assumed that theywere taking the pictures as they were
excavating, and Rob's like, no, I saw the skull, I saw
the ribs, it was all out. And he talked about the job and
the shoes. She's like, Isaw all of that, and I was
like, that's exactly what the pictureslook like that I have. So I

(26:44):
don't ever see the pictures. Yeah, because I've never published them anywhere.
Those those don't go anywhere. RetiredDa daale o'mammon remembered a similar scene.
And we parked in a parking spotbeside it a rural, very rural road,
and it was pointed out down asmall embankment up on the other side,

(27:06):
and then beside a log was thisbody in a very very shallow grave,
or the remains of the body,I should say, in a shallow
grave. And that's all we foundat that point. And then it was
sort of a quasi open area,not all a grown and we had no

(27:29):
difficulty in looking down the creek anda northerly director or a southerly direction maybe
fifteen or twenty feet, and therewas a down tree who had been there
a long time, and it wasright beside the tree in a quasi open
area five or ten fifteen feet wide. That's where the body was found.

(27:53):
Pre DNA testing, investigators had littleto go on to try to identify the
woman. One there was no reportedmissing persons in northeast Origan, and that's
the four or five county area here, and certainly it would have in the
law enforcement community been common knowledge hadthere been somebody missing. It was,

(28:17):
as I recall, about the timethat the homicides were occurring in the Green
River area around Seattle, and ourconversation speculation was, well, there's there's
another one that they that happened tofrom that area and got this far and

(28:40):
decided to dispose of the body orwhatever they were doing. But they were
never really I think the law enforcementdidn't make inquiry, and no missing persons
were reported even in that area atthat time. Soon we're going to talk

(29:23):
about who the woman could be ifit's not Patty Otto, but for now,
let's focus on what's been happening atthe grave side. So this is
what we have narrowed down. Whenwe were up there, we had come
out for about fifteen minutes because shehad odor and was not able to figure

(29:45):
out where it was coming from,and so when I took her out so
she was quit being frustrated, andthen put her back in and we put
her back into a different area,so hoping it would be like a fresh
take. So it worked in thata lot of the odor that she'd been
confused with before it was no longershe wasn't catching it, so so that

(30:07):
is a rule out. There wasno longer you know something here. It
was like I don't have anything.So we worked back down. So this
is good and bad. We workedback down. She still has serious interest
below where it's believed the body isfound. It is super thick, so

(30:29):
she goes back to it. Soshe's not a larning she's not like it's
right here. She works in.There's like that big, big down tree
and we've marked it, so Ihave the way points and stuff. We've
marked it, and we moved itso she could get into it. And
she snuffs and snuffs, and thenshe's like, I don't know, and
so she'll work her way down thetree a little bit and she comes back
and she goes the other side ofthe tree and walked back, and then

(30:52):
we take her out past to seeif the odor could be coming in from
somewhere else, and so that's wherewe're at, is that she definite,
finitely has odor, and thankfully thesecond time and we were able to rule
out because you know, saw howfar out she kept working. I was
like, oh, my goodness,a lot of area right, and there
could be It would be unusual,though to have it that far up and

(31:18):
that far down. And what Isaw because we went back in, it
had clouded over, so the sunwas no longer shining in there, and
I think that's what happened. Ithink it quit pulling the odor up because
sun directly on an odor pulls itvery quickly. So um, so it's
hard a lot of times. That'swhy we talk about daytime and stuff,
because if we have a lot ofsun in an area, our odor can

(31:40):
just go straight up and the dogdoesn't get it very well at all.
So it's good that, I mean, the area allows the odor to be
held, so that's good, butit's so thick that it means we have
to keep holling in amity. Larsonand her dog Brin went back to the
site three months later, in Novembertwenty twenty one, with another handler,

(32:04):
Gail Collins and her search dog wyat, and that day it was a little
bit sunny. We had a nicebreeze. It was about fifty degrees,
you know, a little more moisture, So it was much better search conditions
than when I had been there inAugust. Her dog showed indications of having
odor in the same regions that Brynhad in August. And interestingly, her

(32:32):
dog went to where the burial site, where we believed the burial site was,
and actually had put his foot onhe put his nose on it,
he put his paw on it,and he would kind of do like a
scuff with his paw, and hewas very interested in that area. Kept
going back to it frequently and showa lot of interest there. The thing

(32:55):
about that dog, I've trained withhim extensively, and he's a dog that
whenever he's dealt with buried source,likes to touch the spot. So he's
not a digger in general, buthe always has when we've had buried material
and that he's been searching for,he frequently will show that same behavior where

(33:17):
he puts his foot down and hescuts the ground almost like he's trying to
help himself smell better. And theother thing about him he's a dog that
likes to be one accurate, sowe didn't get a trained final response from
him on that location either. Atrained final response is when a dog gives

(33:39):
a signal that it absolutely has foundwhat it's trained to find, whether that's
an injured hiker or human remains.These dogs don't alert to other animal remains.
They know what they're looking for.After sniffing the area we believe was
the grave side, the dog movedfurther along the trail and up the hill

(34:00):
a bit and got extremely interested ina cluster of trees. But we had
to actually remove him physically remove himfrom the area because he wouldn't stop working
to locate the source of the smell. The odor as he was working,
but he was actually standing up onthe trees against them, sniffing up into

(34:21):
the air, and then he wouldwork down to the bottom of the trees.
We would pull him out of thatimmediate area and let him go,
and he would come right back inand start working it again. So we
were very interested in that area becauseof his behavior, but they couldn't be
certain that whyatt had found the sourceof an odor because heat and wind can

(34:45):
play tricks on a dog's nose trappingodor in an area that's several feet or
even yards away from the source.A dog could get into an area and
have an odor, but not actuallyhave remained right there. There's somewhere in
the scinity, or there's you know, there's a reason in the vicinity that
it's causing the oder to be there. But it doesn't mean the dog's wrong.

(35:06):
It just means that that's where it'smost concentrated. The odor is most
concentrated. Amity and Gail used anapp to get the GPS coordinates of the
spot where Wyatt was signaling, butthe GPS malfunctioned. Fortunately, they also
took pictures of the area because theywanted to bring in Bryn to see how
she would react. This time,she had more interest closer to the grave

(35:32):
site than what she did before.Before she worked much further out from it
and had This time she was muchcloser to the grave site in her interest.
She still did not give a trainedfinal response in the grave site area.
In that immediate area we lost.Well, this is when when we

(35:53):
were working, that's when we discoveredthat we had the wrong GPS because we
had GPS asked the spot where whyit had been so interested in the trees,
and there was just it was somethingwrong with the GPS, so we
didn't actually know where it was.So we just went ahead and worked the

(36:14):
area. And the really interesting partfor us as handlers was that we were
keeping an eye out, trying tokind of work our way back. We
really had no idea where we hadbeen because we were just following the dogs,
letting them work. And as wewere getting back into an area,
I stopped and I had my phoneup because from the picture I'd taken,

(36:37):
and Brin went in and started workingin some trees and I pulled up the
photograph and Gale was looking up thephotograph with me, and I said I
think this is it, and Galesaid, yes, I think that's right,
and we looked up and my dogwas giving a trained final response.

(37:15):
Next time on still, somebody hadspotted the cards the Tapidera motor in and
so I called the Tapidera just tobe I try to be discreet, just
because of the long drive, right, And we're like as she still registered
death and the manager said, yeah, she just paid for another night.

(37:40):
Anyone with information pertaining to the disappearanceof Patricia Otto should contact the Lewiston Police
Department's tipline at two zero eight tonine eight three nine three nine. Anyone
with information pertaining to the identity ofthe Finland Creek Jane Doe or other information
related to that case should contact theUnion County District Attorney at DA at Union

(38:05):
hyphen County dot org. If you, or anyone you know is a victim
of domestic abuse, please contact theNational Domestic Violence Hotline at eight hundred seven
nine nine. Safe STILL is aproduction of The Reporter's Notebook and Grayson Shaw
Media. You can connect with usonline at the Reporter's Notebook dot com or

(38:31):
via email at info at the Reporter'sNotebook dot com. Still was researched,
written and produced by Karen Shaw Anderson. Additional research in script editing provided by
Christine Hughes. Original music by SmithUoso. I'm your host and associate producer

(38:58):
Gary Anderson. Special thanks to everyonewho graciously provided interviews and help with our
research. We would specifically like tothank the advocates for Patricia Otto and the
Findlay Creek Jindoe Task Force. LikeFollow and subscribe to STILL on your favorite
podcast platform, and follow us onFacebook. Or Twitter to join the conversation.

(39:27):
Ezekiel thirty four sixteen. I willseek the lost, and I will
bring back the stray, and Iwill bind up the injured, and I
will strengthen the weak