October 29, 2025 • 42 mins
What if becoming one didn’t mean losing yourself? We get honest about the push and pull between closeness and autonomy—how time apart can stir old aches, why safety makes independence possible, and how small, practical choices turn tension into trust. From childhood loneliness to learned solitude, we trace how personal story and attachment shape the way each of us handles “I need a minute” and “I miss you already,” and we share what helped us move from reactivity to curiosity.
We zoom into the pressure points at home: uneven chores, nonstop childcare, and the cultural guilt that tells women they must earn rest. I
We also tackle the spiritual piece many couples wrestle with: 1 Corinthians 7. Read through coercion, it harms. Read through freedom, it heals. Your body is mine to cherish, reclaiming consent, timing, and dignity.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:04):
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
Now, as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches, we helpcouples to regain hope and joy.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us as we are still
becoming one.
SPEAKER_03 (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to Still BecomingOne.
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
Yeah, welcome back.
SPEAKER_03 (00:37):
So I actually think we have a pretty good topic this
time that we're talking about.
What it means to still becomeone.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
Yeah?
You're insinuating thatsometimes the topics are not
great?
SPEAKER_03 (00:52):
No, not at all.
unknown (00:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (00:54):
I'm just checking.
I just I just think this isactually something I do hear
about a lot of this.
What does it mean to become one?
Where where do I go in thatbecoming one?
Like, are we allowed to havedifferences?
Are we allowed to you know beour own people?
(01:17):
And how does that work?
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
Okay.
Am I being a little like obviousof like, of course you're
different people?
Like that's like understandingwhat Jesus, the you know, the
Bible, the Lord meant by thisrelationship and becoming one.
Yeah, I think, I think it's agood thing to talk about because
(01:44):
I think the church has kind oftwisted it.
What does it mean?
What does it not mean?
Where are you, your own person?
SPEAKER_03 (01:53):
Like I think we can even just take it from the
perspective of intimacy.
Like where, you know, I thinkmost people, well any people,
want to be together or want tobe really close together, but
then you know, sometimes anxietyshows up when they're you know,
(02:16):
uh either separated due to workor even separated due to
interests.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
And and you're identifying that anxiety shows
up.
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
Well, I think it can be.
I think it's often connected tohow they feel safe in
relationships and what makesthem feel safe in relationships.
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Sure.
And as always, it would also betheir story and how
relationships are helping eitherplay out their story again or
trying to fix their storybecause I think we all look to
relationships, which is normalbecause the Lord created
(03:00):
community, like since wellcreated it's just been um
forever.
And so it it is that communityaspect that is going to come in
regardless.
So I think I think that's areally good question.
I think it's a really good uhthought to kind of figure out
(03:25):
what yeah, how do you interactwith community?
How do you and and and then ofcourse your spouse.
SPEAKER_03 (03:31):
Sure.
I mean, that sounds weirdcalling that community, but I
mean it in the larger sense ofrelationships for sure.
Yeah.
I I guess you and I we love tospend time together.
I love spending time with you, Ilove hanging out with you, I
love kind of doing stuff in thesame presence.
(03:53):
I think I'm also verycomfortable when you go, Oh, I'm
gonna go thrifting with myfriend, and I'm gonna go never
happens, never happens daily,but it happens quite often.
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
Um, actually, my bestie has a job that keeps that
from happening daily,unfortunately.
Actually, probably fortunately,but yes.
SPEAKER_03 (04:16):
Um, like I'm I'm like, okay, great.
And I I don't have any issueswith that.
I think I hope not.
There are no absolutely.
And I don't think you have anyissues when I'm like, oh, I'm
gonna go sit up back and read,or I'm gonna go lay my hammock,
or I'm gonna like I don't thinkthere's that space where we have
(04:39):
to be next to each other all thetime.
I do see some couples that getinto that place where it's like
if you're not with me, I'mfeeling rejected.
SPEAKER_00 (04:53):
Well, I will be honest and say that I definitely
can feel that's part of mystory.
Like, and I I don't know how howthat happens inside of you, but
the loneliness I experienced asa kid and the being alone.
(05:14):
Sometimes when you're like, I'mgonna go do something, it does,
it is like this ping thathappens inside of me.
And then I have to remindmyself, first of all, we're
secure in our relationship, likeit's fine, it's good.
And I remind myself I can havegood, healthy time alone by
(05:39):
myself, yeah.
And sometimes, honestly, and Imean, always my bestie is always
invited to go thrifting, butthere are times that she can,
and sometimes time by myselfjust walking around a thrift
store, I just find it really umuh calming and it resets my
brain.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
I know he thinks I'm crazy, but it's I don't mind
going with you, but it's verydifferent experience than
relaxing and resetting my brain.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
Well, okay, sometimes it's very exciting
because I enjoy trying to findthe find.
Like thrifting is that too.
But there are times I've said toyou, after having um just an
experience with differentpeople, we'll leave it at that,
where I have like wanted to gowalk around because I can walk
around and allow my brain tothink about the interaction I
(06:28):
had.
Okay, but also pay somewhatattention to what I'm looking
at, right?
Where if you're walking througha regular store, there's 10 of
everything.
There's I don't know, and in athrift store, I'm like, oh, that
catches my eye.
What is that?
Oh, that catches my eye.
That's atrocious.
I mean, I also love to look forthe atrocious and send Brad
(06:49):
pictures.
He, I'm sure, enjoys it so verymuch.
But, anyways, it's just reallyum helpful to me.
And so I think that um, anyways,learning to be with myself in
those ways has been a journeyfor me.
I don't think it's been as muchfor you.
SPEAKER_03 (07:09):
Oh no, it absolutely is for me.
SPEAKER_00 (07:11):
I think but you didn't naturally gravitate
towards me instead.
I think I naturally gravitatedtowards you instead when I was I
mean, that's interesting when wewere first married and I was
lonely.
SPEAKER_03 (07:24):
I think I often Okay, you gravitated towards sex
then.
I guess just name it.
I would name I gravitatedtowards sex, or I gravitated
towards distractions like TV,which I wouldn't necessarily
equate as like alone time,right?
Sure, sure.
So uh I do think I have to, Iand I've worked hard to
(07:50):
cultivate healthier alone time.
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (07:54):
And things that I actually either enjoy doing or
I'm a little bit more likely togo.
You're a reader, like you readall the time, you read
constantly.
I have to like almost remindmyself to read, unless I'm in
the middle of a really goodbook.
I have to like, oh no, wait, Iwant to go, you know, I'm gonna
go choose to do that.
(08:14):
So like, but that's that's oneum that I'll go and go, you
know, read or listen to my book.
Um, I do love audiobooks, sothat helps.
Um the so you know that helps.
Sometimes I'll go journal, somesometimes I'll just go sit and
(08:36):
you know, and not do a wholelot, um, which is okay too.
Uh, but I I think for me,learning to be alone has been an
intentional process.
In fact, I remember when Istarted some of this, I was the
executive director of acounseling center.
(08:58):
And my executive coach at thetime, because my training is all
in counseling, and I became thedirector and I got a coach to
help me on the business side,which was very helpful.
And he kind of had encouraged meto take um a day or at least
half a day a month to step outand to like spend some time
(09:24):
doing some of the longer rangethinking and planning.
And um, just because this ideaof if you're in your office,
you're dealing with theday-to-day, you're dealing with
the immediate, and you're nevergetting to the I want to do this
in three months, and then thoseprojects don't get done because
they they sneak up on you.
(09:46):
So I had started doing thatthere and recognized there's
just such a value about steppingaway from life in order to think
longer term.
SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_03 (10:01):
Um, and so that's kind of become more of a little
bit of a habit as well that I Itry to do and find finding that
alone time.
SPEAKER_04 (10:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (10:12):
Um, and I I I enjoy that.
I do that well.
I think one of the things thathas helped is uh we I think
found our what it means to beone first and then grew some of
the what it means to then beindividuals within our oneness.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
Yeah, that's an interesting thought.
And I I do wonder, I don't knowthat it would necessarily happen
that way for every couple, andprobably the healthier thing
would be to come into marriageknowing knowing yourself a
little better, knowing your ownstory, knowing the impacts.
But we we've been honest fromthe beginning.
(10:55):
That was definitely not us.
But I do think us finding aspace of okay, we won't say
complete, nothing is evercomplete, but of you know,
really close to complete trustand um transparency with each
other, I think then allowed usto move that direction.
(11:18):
I know for me a lot wasunderstanding my story,
understanding what was comingup.
Because like I said, it stillcan feel that way to me when
you're like, I'm gonna go dosomething or I'm gonna go do
this.
I mean, most times I know youdon't care if I join you.
Um, maybe not on your uh silentretreat.
(11:39):
That would be weird.
But when you say I'm goingoutside or something, I know you
don't care if I come outsidetoo.
But I also have like, okay, isthat what I want to do?
Like, I can actually have a whatI want to do right now too,
which is very hard for me withmy story.
SPEAKER_03 (11:56):
It is.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
I I know it is.
I know it is.
Um, but this weekend I did someof that.
I was like, no, that's notactually what I want to do.
And I I constantly felt thepressure of, but you should be
doing that.
Um, and so I had to continue towork within myself.
This is what it's like, guys,with your story, but but I do
think as you continue to workwith it, it it's not always that
(12:20):
pressing, right?
But yes, I think we we figuredout what it was to be moving
towards one first, yeah.
And that gave us the safety, Ithink, to explore.
SPEAKER_03 (12:33):
That's exactly kind of the word I was thinking too,
is as our marriage got stronger,it got safer for both of us to
go it, you know, I am gonna godo this thing by myself.
Yeah, right.
And and I think that's the thingthat couples need to remember is
(12:55):
when that safety isn't there,that self-time can feel like
you're pulling away.
SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:03):
And I think it's just important to acknowledge
that and to be able to veryeasy.
I'm not saying don't do it.
I'm actually more saying makesure you're building in some of
the communication around what isyou know, what what's it for?
What are the structure?
When you know, what are youdoing in order to help that?
(13:28):
Now, I I do want to talk aboutbecause I think one of the times
this gets most stressful that wedon't have anymore is not
completely, I assume whereyou're going.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Yeah.
Just most of the time we don'thave challenge right now.
SPEAKER_03 (13:44):
When there's a lot of demands for childcare or
house chores, that verytraditionally, again, is this
place where you know a guy maybe working 40-50 hours a week
and then wanting to spend alittle bit of alone time and so
(14:08):
much of that time, which oftenis landing on a wife who's also
working 40 or 50 hours a weekand doing child care and doing
housework or doing those kind ofthings.
Or just at home, like it doesn'talways, but often, and that's
the challenge is even in caseswe know, in cases where both
(14:30):
parents are working, still moreof the house child
responsibilities lands on thewife.
That's statistically true.
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (14:40):
So I would agree.
SPEAKER_00 (14:41):
And the wife kind of feels like, when do I get a
break?
SPEAKER_03 (14:44):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
And it and at the same time, I can only speak for
myself, um, but I would imaginemany women share something along
those lines.
At the same time, like, when doI get a break?
But then there is a lot of guiltwith taking a break.
Like we are taught in the UnitedStates as women, especially if
(15:07):
you are able to stay home ormake that choice to stay home.
Not that you need to, thatbecause you're at home, you
should be able to handle and geteverything done.
Like right, that's all you do.
And and I mean, I think thatconversation comes up a lot with
(15:28):
married couples if if if a womandecides to stay home.
Sometimes men stay home too.
I'd be curious to hear if thatif that we have good friends
that he stayed home most oftheir kids' uh, you know,
schooling years.
I'd be curious to ask them andhe would probably tell us for
sure.
But um, like so it it becomes achallenge on two fronts.
(15:51):
And I do think that is partiallybecause of kind of the way it is
uh taught to women in the UnitedStates if you're home.
Like you should have all thisbandwidth.
SPEAKER_03 (16:04):
Right.
All the space to do all of thosethings.
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
When that would be true if your kids were in a cage
and silent.
SPEAKER_03 (16:12):
They aren't.
SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
Like aren't we trying to invest in them?
So it it's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03 (16:16):
So you're saying the taking time by yourself is is
discouraged because society saysyou have to be giving all that
time to your kids.
SPEAKER_00 (16:27):
Um, I think it's a combination of a couple things.
I think when a husband comeshome from work and is able to
say, like, I need a little bitof time, there is this piece of
like, well, how do I ask fortime because I'm home all the
time.
So it feels like there shouldalready be all this built-in
(16:48):
time.
Right.
But unless you I I don't evenwant to unless you because it
doesn't matter if you have onekid or 15.
You know, like it's going totake up a lot of that time.
And then it I think it justfeels like you can't ask for it.
And I know for me that playsinto my story really well.
(17:12):
Asking for things is reallydifficult.
Um, taking care of myself,right?
How did I get seen in my story?
I got seen by being helpful, bydoing things, taking things off
of other people's plates.
So I then, you know, when ourkids were young, that was what I
(17:32):
was doing.
And yet resentment built, right?
Because you feel like you're notbeing seen in the need.
SPEAKER_04 (17:40):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
And and that all sounds, I just want to honor,
that sounds like a crazy mess.
Like, how would anyone untanglethat?
How would any husband know that,see that?
Uh, and I agree, that's why wehave to dive into our own work.
SPEAKER_03 (17:54):
Yeah.
And we often, when we're talkingabout those times, we say, you
know, there's this really hardcommodity of time that then gets
divided into, you know,obviously work, sleep, and then
time alone, time with yourspouse, time with your kids,
(18:14):
time with friends, time, youknow, maybe volunteering or
church or like like so there'sso many demands that pull at
that, and it's no wonder thatyou know, something it's
something suffers somewhere.
SPEAKER_04 (18:31):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (18:32):
And I think all too often we end up talking to
couples where it feels like oneperson's priorities don't match
the other person in the couples.
SPEAKER_04 (18:44):
Hmm.
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Yeah, I can see where that definitely it feels
like that's rubbing up, but Idon't know that that's always
what's actually happening.
But yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (18:57):
I mean, I can think of a few where with us.
I I mean, I can think of a fewof times with us, yeah, that it
was I'm really feelingexhausted, so I want to go do
something to take care of myselfor to, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
I'm not sure we used that language back then, but
okay.
SPEAKER_03 (19:18):
But like I want to go do something by myself, and
you were understandablyexhausted and were like, uh, I
just want to freaking get ashower.
So what like how do we figurethis out?
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:35):
And the communication sometimes wasn't
the best.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
For sure.
Because I don't think we knewhow to ask for what we needed,
and I don't think the otherperson, like, I do feel like
it's a two-way street in inmarriage, and this is part of
becoming one, right?
Learning to ask for your needs.
And also your spouse not alwayslike guessing perfectly, but
(20:00):
kind of like, hey, how how couldI help?
Like, what do you have going on?
What what do you need?
Do you need some like also yourspouse?
And we both do this, not justyou to me, because I were I was
the one home with the kiddos,but like, oh, you're having you
know, last week you had somereally long days.
I kept checking in.
What can I do?
(20:20):
Is there something I can do?
I'll make sure I get dinnerready.
Cause shocker, I don't like toget dinner ready.
As everyone knows, on stillbecoming one.
Um, but like, you know,recognizing those things.
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
So I think it is a you know, a give and a take of
like it 100% is awareness, andthat's the becoming one part,
right?
It is to use this storyworkword, it is attunement to what's
going on with your spouse first.
And like I don't think I wouldever go, oh, I'm gonna go hang
(20:58):
outside and read my book when Icould tell that there was
something that we needed to talkabout or something that you were
having a rough day with, or likeI don't, I just don't think I
would I would shift mypriorities that way because you
are my priority, and I want youto know that we can't always
(21:19):
always want be able to do whatwe think we need or want at the
time.
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Like that doesn't just because you voice it
doesn't constitute it always canhappen.
SPEAKER_03 (21:29):
I correct.
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
I mean, I'd like to be on a vacation right now,
wouldn't we all?
SPEAKER_03 (21:33):
Right?
Like exactly and but I do thinkthe issue is one of priority
that when something comes up,when something changes, it's how
do you show your spouse they'rea priority, even over, you know,
oh, I need some alone time or Ineed some autonomy time, you
(21:57):
know, kind of thing, whateverthat looks like.
I I have this hobby, I have thisthing that I'd like to do.
That's great, but those shouldoften fall under the my spouse
really needs me.
I do think it's hard when it'sagain, toddler phase, younger
(22:18):
kids, it feels like kids' spouseneed you all the time.
So then it is a sacrifice that'susually more of I think it's
more of a planned sacrifice forboth people.
Like you actually have to sitthere and talk about it and go,
okay, when when are you going toget your kind of alone time?
(22:40):
What what are you gonna do?
How can I make sure that we havethat time?
All right, then how am I gonnaget my alone time?
What you know, sure.
Or I want to go out with myfriends.
How how are you gonna find timewith your friends?
Like that you're purposelyhaving that conversation.
And I think so many couplesdon't have that conversation
because they're stuck on the Iside rather than like the the
(23:06):
together side.
SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
Yeah.
And and I think what you said isvital.
Like, how do we haveconversations?
How do we know ourselves wellenough to know what's helpful?
Um, because sometimes we tend tothink it's that I know I talk to
a lot of wives, and sometimes wetend to assume it's that big
(23:30):
ask, but it may not be.
It may be.
I 20 minutes in the shower wouldbe amazing, and I would feel
rejuvenated and ready to getback in there, right?
It doesn't always mean or fiveminutes, five minutes to go to
the bathroom all by yourselfwhen you have littles.
SPEAKER_03 (23:47):
Like without them.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
I remember the saying banging on the door.
SPEAKER_03 (23:51):
When I would, when you'd know we were having a
really hard board meeting or areally hard day, or something
was going on.
There were many times that youwould meet me at the door, I'd
meet the little kids, you know,give everybody hugs.
The little kids.
SPEAKER_04 (24:06):
Not littles anymore.
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
I know, but like, and then you know, you would
say, Why don't you go lay downfor 20 minutes?
And like that gift, it's morethan just the time, it's the
being seen.
And I think that's the part thatso many people miss.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:23):
And that's the becoming one part of even the
individual side.
It's having the opportunity tobe seen together and in each
other seeing each other.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Does that mean we go out for a party?
Seen together.
SPEAKER_03 (24:40):
It's more the this space of somebody actually sees
a need.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
It's complicated and it's also simplistic.
SPEAKER_03 (24:51):
Yeah, I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
Right?
It's and that's what makes ithard.
SPEAKER_03 (24:56):
It should be like it feels like this should be
obvious.
And I think that's why so manycouples end up fighting here.
Is because it's like, what's thebig deal?
This is obvious.
Of course, I love you.
Just because I'm going out tolunch with my friend doesn't
mean I don't love you.
But these fights happen becauseof attachment, because of like
(25:19):
some place abandonment.
Yeah, all kinds of uh parts ofour story.
Um it feels like I'm less of apriority.
It feels like I'm drowning here,and all you want to do is go to
your thing.
Like, I think there's a lot ofthose factors that end up
happening.
SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
Yeah, yeah.
And and I think just like wetalk about being curious, like
when something you feel it inyour body or you have that
thought, I think it's just beingcurious, right?
Like, even this morning.
Funny story about Brad.
We'll start with we'll do afunny story.
(25:58):
Oh boy, he's like, I don't knowwhere this is going.
Um, a long time ago, he tried tosign up for our business mail
box to tell us when mail wascoming because we have to go
pick it up.
And so it just, you know, it'sjust easier if we know that mail
is there instead of, but heended up signing up for our home
mail box to tell him everythingthat's coming.
(26:22):
And so this morning he was like,ugh, he's like, jury duty
notice.
And I was like, ha ha ha ha, youor me.
I I said ha ha ha ha.
And then I was like, wait, Iprobably should ask you or me.
Um, actually, neither of us havea problem with serving on jury
duty at all.
The challenge is that we haveyou have to clear your schedule
(26:43):
for three days when you may notbe doing it.
We actually don't mind servingat all.
It's more the clearing of theschedule.
And so he was like, me, and Iwas like, ha.
And then I was like, wait,Philadelphia or Lancaster?
And he so he went back andlooked, and it was Lancaster
because I was like, ifPhiladelphia, I'm coming with
you.
So I was like, don't leave mehere for three days.
(27:03):
And then I was like, I guess Ikind of have to work since
you're gonna be um right.
And just that curiosity, realquick, of like, oh, that felt
like, oh, if he has to go toPhilly for three days, I'm here
by myself.
I'm actually super fine being bymyself, but there is that
initial moment that I feel like,uh, because I spent a lot of my
(27:24):
childhood in my room by myself,right?
And feeling that abandonment,feeling that distance from my
parents.
And so it just hits me.
And then I remind myself, hey,like it's not the end of the
world.
I enjoy time by myself.
It wouldn't, it wouldn't sure,you know, and we have a dog, so
it's not like I'm completelyalone.
(27:45):
Um, but you know, just kind oflike being curious, and then,
you know, and I find I workthrough the things so much
quicker, and it's not a bigdeal.
And I made that comment to you,but it's gonna be Lancaster, so
you're not gonna be goneanyways.
But I mean, we are perpetual forsome reason.
People we get jury dutyconstantly a lot, a lot.
(28:09):
So we'll see, but then we neverget called.
SPEAKER_03 (28:12):
Yeah, you say I don't mind serving.
I don't, I wouldn't mind at allactually getting on something.
You actually talk about all thetime you never freaking get on
anything.
SPEAKER_00 (28:22):
Because you're because you're a therapist, and
then I never get on anythingbecause I'm a therapist's
spouse.
Yes.
So it's like, okay, so it's alsokind of a pain because we know
the likelihood of us beingcalled is very little.
So it's like, okay, this is justwhatever.
So, anyways, we'll keep youupdated.
Maybe, who knows?
(28:42):
Maybe you'll maybe this'll bethe time.
SPEAKER_03 (28:45):
Yeah, right.
It'll be one that I don't wantto get on, actually, but who
knows?
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
Last time I went, which wasn't that long ago, I
sat there all day and did getcalled into a jury selection,
but who knows why?
Got scratched.
I've gotten called severaltimes.
And then the judge sat andchatted with us, which was
really cool, actually, a reallycool experience.
But um, yeah, anyways, that wason to jury duty.
(29:10):
Well, but it's like that momentof like, okay, can I be curious?
Right, where does it be?
Does it have to take me over?
No.
And and I can also say, like,oh, well, if you're in Philly
for three days, I would missyou.
Like, that's also okay.
Of course, right?
SPEAKER_03 (29:26):
And so it's just like But I actually I love you
saying that because what whatyou're doing is getting into
your own emotions and and tryingto figure out where they're
coming from, the good and thehard, right?
Like, I of course everyone wantsto be missed.
If you know, if your emotion waslike, oh good, go, like that
(29:48):
would be weird, right?
Like, and and would beunhealthy.
If your emotion, so like we wantsome of that side, but then if
it's like no, no, you can't.
Go, like then it feels likeactually the government's gonna
make you possess.
SPEAKER_00 (30:04):
I would just have to you just have to drag me with.
I'd have to go with.
SPEAKER_03 (30:08):
But you know, then it I think that gets to this
place of like feeling like uh ohmy gosh, I can't have any time
by myself.
And I think there the happymiddle is found by really
looking at some of your ownemotions, what's going on, and
(30:28):
then how do you honor thoseemotions and take care of people
in the in between?
Like if somebody is reallyhaving a hard time with a spouse
leaving, then that probablyreflects some of their story of
attachment of what it meant tobe alone and some fear or
(30:50):
anxiety or things like that thatare coming up.
And I think that needs to behonored and taken care of.
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
Yeah.
And I and I do think it's it'sworth mentioning, like, we have
a betrayal journey too.
So like sometimes the thought ofyou being away somewhere without
me, that will come to theforefront too.
And that's that's important tobe honored and talked about as
well.
Because you can be years downthe road from a healing journey
(31:19):
with that, but that can stilldifferent things can still bring
up um certain emotions andcertain fears.
So, like I would say usually forus, that is a conversation we
have as well.
Um, and I just wanna, you know,I feel like that's fair
mentioned, and people canunderstand that on many
different levels.
(31:39):
Absolutely.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (31:41):
And I think that's the thing, these conversations
need to take place and need tobe able to take place.
And I I really would encouragepeople like to be talking about
what are things that you dotogether that you enjoy, that
(32:01):
you're really doing well to growthat togetherness, but then how
how do you how are you growinghealthy by yourself?
And what are those activities,what are those things you're
doing that help you to justrelax, take care of yourself, be
(32:22):
positive.
And those should be included,and there should be time for
both of you in both of that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
Yeah.
So I agree.
SPEAKER_03 (32:32):
It's hard stuff to kind of look at.
SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
I think too, it would be good um, you know, to
talk follow-up because talkingabout the still becoming one and
the you know, individual, thereis also a piece of it that I
think would be interesting forus to explore of like there's
(32:56):
also that, like, well, we'reone, we're individuals.
Where does the whole biblicalthing of like your body, my
body, like all of that come in?
Because unfortunately, I feellike the church has kind of
(33:16):
twisted that and made itinteresting.
So it would be interesting toexplore that as well.
SPEAKER_03 (33:22):
I I know you know you're talking about the first
Corinthians 7 that says, My bodyis is yours, your body is mine,
kind of idea.
And those verses have been usedto subjugate the lower desire
person in a marriage so often,which is more statistically
(33:47):
women being the lower desireperson.
And it those verses have beenused to say you're being bad if
you don't do whatever I want.
That is not at all the intent ofthose verses.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
Correct.
So we could just hash this outright now, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:06):
No, because it's actually relatively simple.
Those those verses are an offerand an opportunity, not a
requirement, right?
It is this place of explorationand beauty of offering to each
other those things that werejust for one person, that then
(34:28):
as you two become one, becometogether.
But it is not written as a thisis a requirement of you have to
offer even if you don't want to.
Like it's not, it's not atakeaway thing, it's a freedom
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (34:46):
And if you're not comfortable with that due to
your story or due to whatever,like that is something that
needs to be entered into uhcarefully.
And right, like, I mean, you andI joke about it all the time.
Like you're we do, we joke backand forth, but then again, we
(35:06):
joke back and forth a lot oftimes with stuff the church has
done poorly.
Anyways, but like we joke backand forth, but it it I know for
me there was a time where it waslike, oh, that feels like
possessive.
It yeah, and it felt like okay,because I was for years the
(35:27):
lower drive spouse.
But it also felt like get youract together, girl.
Like this is what the Biblerequires, this is what the
church is telling you, you'reone.
So like you don't have autonomyover your own body anymore.
SPEAKER_03 (35:45):
That's just not the case.
SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
Which is for many people's stories, that's really
difficult.
And and you can you can, I mean,not to get off on this too much,
but you can see the enemy's planin that, right?
Like, because he does.
I think the Lord did create itfor there to be this freedom in
that but we are broken people.
SPEAKER_04 (36:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:05):
So that freedom was in Eden, and and we don't we
can't even fully comprehend inour brains what that looked
like, correct, right?
And so we live in a space whereit's uh it's not that simple,
and people's bodies have beenobjectified, you know,
sexualized, both men and women,but uh men and women differently
(36:28):
too.
I guess we should just say that.
And the effect on women in theUnited States, I believe makes
that claim of that verse reallyhard, right?
Where we either enter marriagethinking we have no, like we
just have to do it, right?
You've grown up in a churchthat's just very strong-armed,
(36:50):
like deal with it, move on, it'syour space, it's what you're
supposed to do.
Um or we struggle or we try todo it for years, and then it it
breaks down, and it can be areason people can't find any
safety in their marriage, right?
Like how is that safe that yourbody is mine to do whatever I
(37:15):
want with it?
Obviously, the church was neverpromoting harm, like, but still,
but still, like it's harm ifit's not mutual.
SPEAKER_03 (37:25):
Correct, correct.
It is those verses are about anoffering and about freedom, not
about a demanded responsibility.
Yeah, that's it's just totallytaken out of that context.
And if you read those sameverses with a a thought of
freedom in them, it makes awhole lot of sense.
(37:48):
Like you're you're taking aplace where there was a cultural
kind of like, hey, hold yourbody back, we need to be
cautious.
Like some of the same thingsthat we talk about in purity
culture, right?
That were getting communicatedthat really they're saying, wait
a minute, like God made sex forus to enjoy together.
(38:13):
That's what it's talking about,is this freedom, not this like
obligation space that we'vewritten on top of it afterwards.
So I think that that autonomypiece of hey, I get to have a
choice even within my marriage.
I get to go, I don't, you know,I'm not comfortable with sex
(38:35):
tonight, I'm not comfortablewith sex now.
Like, can we try again later?
Like the that is that's thatfreedom exists and it's really
important.
SPEAKER_00 (38:46):
Yeah, no, totally.
And yeah, I agree with thatfreedom piece, and I think could
we look at it of I've been giventhe privilege as your spouse to
cherish your body.
Yes, right?
Cherishing means I find youattractive no matter what, I'm
(39:08):
gonna push some buttons.
Like, no matter what, like thatis my heart and my posture
towards you, and I'm gonnacherish it as much as I cherish
mine, although some people don'tcherish their own, so that that
can be its own, um, right?
But cherishing something,something we cherish, we don't
(39:29):
force things on it, we don'tdemand our own way.
We can have a desire, sure, butwe don't, yeah.
So I think trying to think of itthat way of like your body is
mine to cherish.
Yeah, I like and I have to honorwhat space you're in to be able
to cherish it, absolutely, andvice versa, absolutely, so yeah,
(39:52):
because I do think that comes upwith the one versus individual,
yeah.
I think you're exactly right,it's an important part, and we
are one body-wise, we are alsonot right, right?
Like, literally, until we weleave this earth, like I'm
experiencing things in my body,you can't feel them for me.
(40:15):
Like, we are separate, but weare one, which is God's really
cool thing, and I don't evenknow that I'll completely
understand it until I get toheaven, but so yeah, I just
think that was important at theend because it's free.
SPEAKER_03 (40:32):
I think that's an important part that people
ignore or twist individualversus united.
SPEAKER_04 (40:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (40:42):
So I am sure we're gonna have some people want to
respond to some of this, and wewould love to hear your
comments.
Feel free.
Yeah, yeah.
Feel free um to uh send us amessage, and we would love to
hear from you.
You can email us at help atstillbecoming one.com.
We would love to hear from you,even if you have questions and
(41:04):
you want us to go into somethingmore.
We would love to uh to hear fromthat as well.
So we hope that you continueyour journey on Still Becoming
One.
Until next time, I'm BradAldrich.
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
And I'm Kate Aldridge, be kind and take care
of each other.
SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldridge
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry,
courses, and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at Aldridge Ministries.com.
For podcast show notes and linksto resources in all of our
social media.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecoming one dot com.
(41:50):
And don't forget to like thisepisode wherever you get your
podcasts.
And be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
Now, as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches, we helpcouples to regain hope and joy.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us as we are still
becoming one.
SPEAKER_03 (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to Still BecomingOne.
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
Yeah, welcome back.
SPEAKER_03 (00:37):
So I actually think we have a pretty good topic this
time that we're talking about.
What it means to still becomeone.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
Yeah?
You're insinuating thatsometimes the topics are not
great?
SPEAKER_03 (00:52):
No, not at all.
unknown (00:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (00:54):
I'm just checking.
I just I just think this isactually something I do hear
about a lot of this.
What does it mean to become one?
Where where do I go in thatbecoming one?
Like, are we allowed to havedifferences?
Are we allowed to you know beour own people?
(01:17):
And how does that work?
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
Okay.
Am I being a little like obviousof like, of course you're
different people?
Like that's like understandingwhat Jesus, the you know, the
Bible, the Lord meant by thisrelationship and becoming one.
Yeah, I think, I think it's agood thing to talk about because
(01:44):
I think the church has kind oftwisted it.
What does it mean?
What does it not mean?
Where are you, your own person?
SPEAKER_03 (01:53):
Like I think we can even just take it from the
perspective of intimacy.
Like where, you know, I thinkmost people, well any people,
want to be together or want tobe really close together, but
then you know, sometimes anxietyshows up when they're you know,
(02:16):
uh either separated due to workor even separated due to
interests.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
And and you're identifying that anxiety shows
up.
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
Well, I think it can be.
I think it's often connected tohow they feel safe in
relationships and what makesthem feel safe in relationships.
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Sure.
And as always, it would also betheir story and how
relationships are helping eitherplay out their story again or
trying to fix their storybecause I think we all look to
relationships, which is normalbecause the Lord created
(03:00):
community, like since wellcreated it's just been um
forever.
And so it it is that communityaspect that is going to come in
regardless.
So I think I think that's areally good question.
I think it's a really good uhthought to kind of figure out
(03:25):
what yeah, how do you interactwith community?
How do you and and and then ofcourse your spouse.
SPEAKER_03 (03:31):
Sure.
I mean, that sounds weirdcalling that community, but I
mean it in the larger sense ofrelationships for sure.
Yeah.
I I guess you and I we love tospend time together.
I love spending time with you, Ilove hanging out with you, I
love kind of doing stuff in thesame presence.
(03:53):
I think I'm also verycomfortable when you go, Oh, I'm
gonna go thrifting with myfriend, and I'm gonna go never
happens, never happens daily,but it happens quite often.
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
Um, actually, my bestie has a job that keeps that
from happening daily,unfortunately.
Actually, probably fortunately,but yes.
SPEAKER_03 (04:16):
Um, like I'm I'm like, okay, great.
And I I don't have any issueswith that.
I think I hope not.
There are no absolutely.
And I don't think you have anyissues when I'm like, oh, I'm
gonna go sit up back and read,or I'm gonna go lay my hammock,
or I'm gonna like I don't thinkthere's that space where we have
(04:39):
to be next to each other all thetime.
I do see some couples that getinto that place where it's like
if you're not with me, I'mfeeling rejected.
SPEAKER_00 (04:53):
Well, I will be honest and say that I definitely
can feel that's part of mystory.
Like, and I I don't know how howthat happens inside of you, but
the loneliness I experienced asa kid and the being alone.
(05:14):
Sometimes when you're like, I'mgonna go do something, it does,
it is like this ping thathappens inside of me.
And then I have to remindmyself, first of all, we're
secure in our relationship, likeit's fine, it's good.
And I remind myself I can havegood, healthy time alone by
(05:39):
myself, yeah.
And sometimes, honestly, and Imean, always my bestie is always
invited to go thrifting, butthere are times that she can,
and sometimes time by myselfjust walking around a thrift
store, I just find it really umuh calming and it resets my
brain.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
I know he thinks I'm crazy, but it's I don't mind
going with you, but it's verydifferent experience than
relaxing and resetting my brain.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
Well, okay, sometimes it's very exciting
because I enjoy trying to findthe find.
Like thrifting is that too.
But there are times I've said toyou, after having um just an
experience with differentpeople, we'll leave it at that,
where I have like wanted to gowalk around because I can walk
around and allow my brain tothink about the interaction I
(06:28):
had.
Okay, but also pay somewhatattention to what I'm looking
at, right?
Where if you're walking througha regular store, there's 10 of
everything.
There's I don't know, and in athrift store, I'm like, oh, that
catches my eye.
What is that?
Oh, that catches my eye.
That's atrocious.
I mean, I also love to look forthe atrocious and send Brad
(06:49):
pictures.
He, I'm sure, enjoys it so verymuch.
But, anyways, it's just reallyum helpful to me.
And so I think that um, anyways,learning to be with myself in
those ways has been a journeyfor me.
I don't think it's been as muchfor you.
SPEAKER_03 (07:09):
Oh no, it absolutely is for me.
SPEAKER_00 (07:11):
I think but you didn't naturally gravitate
towards me instead.
I think I naturally gravitatedtowards you instead when I was I
mean, that's interesting when wewere first married and I was
lonely.
SPEAKER_03 (07:24):
I think I often Okay, you gravitated towards sex
then.
I guess just name it.
I would name I gravitatedtowards sex, or I gravitated
towards distractions like TV,which I wouldn't necessarily
equate as like alone time,right?
Sure, sure.
So uh I do think I have to, Iand I've worked hard to
(07:50):
cultivate healthier alone time.
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (07:54):
And things that I actually either enjoy doing or
I'm a little bit more likely togo.
You're a reader, like you readall the time, you read
constantly.
I have to like almost remindmyself to read, unless I'm in
the middle of a really goodbook.
I have to like, oh no, wait, Iwant to go, you know, I'm gonna
go choose to do that.
(08:14):
So like, but that's that's oneum that I'll go and go, you
know, read or listen to my book.
Um, I do love audiobooks, sothat helps.
Um the so you know that helps.
Sometimes I'll go journal, somesometimes I'll just go sit and
(08:36):
you know, and not do a wholelot, um, which is okay too.
Uh, but I I think for me,learning to be alone has been an
intentional process.
In fact, I remember when Istarted some of this, I was the
executive director of acounseling center.
(08:58):
And my executive coach at thetime, because my training is all
in counseling, and I became thedirector and I got a coach to
help me on the business side,which was very helpful.
And he kind of had encouraged meto take um a day or at least
half a day a month to step outand to like spend some time
(09:24):
doing some of the longer rangethinking and planning.
And um, just because this ideaof if you're in your office,
you're dealing with theday-to-day, you're dealing with
the immediate, and you're nevergetting to the I want to do this
in three months, and then thoseprojects don't get done because
they they sneak up on you.
(09:46):
So I had started doing thatthere and recognized there's
just such a value about steppingaway from life in order to think
longer term.
SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_03 (10:01):
Um, and so that's kind of become more of a little
bit of a habit as well that I Itry to do and find finding that
alone time.
SPEAKER_04 (10:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (10:12):
Um, and I I I enjoy that.
I do that well.
I think one of the things thathas helped is uh we I think
found our what it means to beone first and then grew some of
the what it means to then beindividuals within our oneness.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
Yeah, that's an interesting thought.
And I I do wonder, I don't knowthat it would necessarily happen
that way for every couple, andprobably the healthier thing
would be to come into marriageknowing knowing yourself a
little better, knowing your ownstory, knowing the impacts.
But we we've been honest fromthe beginning.
(10:55):
That was definitely not us.
But I do think us finding aspace of okay, we won't say
complete, nothing is evercomplete, but of you know,
really close to complete trustand um transparency with each
other, I think then allowed usto move that direction.
(11:18):
I know for me a lot wasunderstanding my story,
understanding what was comingup.
Because like I said, it stillcan feel that way to me when
you're like, I'm gonna go dosomething or I'm gonna go do
this.
I mean, most times I know youdon't care if I join you.
Um, maybe not on your uh silentretreat.
(11:39):
That would be weird.
But when you say I'm goingoutside or something, I know you
don't care if I come outsidetoo.
But I also have like, okay, isthat what I want to do?
Like, I can actually have a whatI want to do right now too,
which is very hard for me withmy story.
SPEAKER_03 (11:56):
It is.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
I I know it is.
I know it is.
Um, but this weekend I did someof that.
I was like, no, that's notactually what I want to do.
And I I constantly felt thepressure of, but you should be
doing that.
Um, and so I had to continue towork within myself.
This is what it's like, guys,with your story, but but I do
think as you continue to workwith it, it it's not always that
(12:20):
pressing, right?
But yes, I think we we figuredout what it was to be moving
towards one first, yeah.
And that gave us the safety, Ithink, to explore.
SPEAKER_03 (12:33):
That's exactly kind of the word I was thinking too,
is as our marriage got stronger,it got safer for both of us to
go it, you know, I am gonna godo this thing by myself.
Yeah, right.
And and I think that's the thingthat couples need to remember is
(12:55):
when that safety isn't there,that self-time can feel like
you're pulling away.
SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:03):
And I think it's just important to acknowledge
that and to be able to veryeasy.
I'm not saying don't do it.
I'm actually more saying makesure you're building in some of
the communication around what isyou know, what what's it for?
What are the structure?
When you know, what are youdoing in order to help that?
(13:28):
Now, I I do want to talk aboutbecause I think one of the times
this gets most stressful that wedon't have anymore is not
completely, I assume whereyou're going.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Yeah.
Just most of the time we don'thave challenge right now.
SPEAKER_03 (13:44):
When there's a lot of demands for childcare or
house chores, that verytraditionally, again, is this
place where you know a guy maybe working 40-50 hours a week
and then wanting to spend alittle bit of alone time and so
(14:08):
much of that time, which oftenis landing on a wife who's also
working 40 or 50 hours a weekand doing child care and doing
housework or doing those kind ofthings.
Or just at home, like it doesn'talways, but often, and that's
the challenge is even in caseswe know, in cases where both
(14:30):
parents are working, still moreof the house child
responsibilities lands on thewife.
That's statistically true.
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (14:40):
So I would agree.
SPEAKER_00 (14:41):
And the wife kind of feels like, when do I get a
break?
SPEAKER_03 (14:44):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
And it and at the same time, I can only speak for
myself, um, but I would imaginemany women share something along
those lines.
At the same time, like, when doI get a break?
But then there is a lot of guiltwith taking a break.
Like we are taught in the UnitedStates as women, especially if
(15:07):
you are able to stay home ormake that choice to stay home.
Not that you need to, thatbecause you're at home, you
should be able to handle and geteverything done.
Like right, that's all you do.
And and I mean, I think thatconversation comes up a lot with
(15:28):
married couples if if if a womandecides to stay home.
Sometimes men stay home too.
I'd be curious to hear if thatif that we have good friends
that he stayed home most oftheir kids' uh, you know,
schooling years.
I'd be curious to ask them andhe would probably tell us for
sure.
But um, like so it it becomes achallenge on two fronts.
(15:51):
And I do think that is partiallybecause of kind of the way it is
uh taught to women in the UnitedStates if you're home.
Like you should have all thisbandwidth.
SPEAKER_03 (16:04):
Right.
All the space to do all of thosethings.
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
When that would be true if your kids were in a cage
and silent.
SPEAKER_03 (16:12):
They aren't.
SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
Like aren't we trying to invest in them?
So it it's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03 (16:16):
So you're saying the taking time by yourself is is
discouraged because society saysyou have to be giving all that
time to your kids.
SPEAKER_00 (16:27):
Um, I think it's a combination of a couple things.
I think when a husband comeshome from work and is able to
say, like, I need a little bitof time, there is this piece of
like, well, how do I ask fortime because I'm home all the
time.
So it feels like there shouldalready be all this built-in
(16:48):
time.
Right.
But unless you I I don't evenwant to unless you because it
doesn't matter if you have onekid or 15.
You know, like it's going totake up a lot of that time.
And then it I think it justfeels like you can't ask for it.
And I know for me that playsinto my story really well.
(17:12):
Asking for things is reallydifficult.
Um, taking care of myself,right?
How did I get seen in my story?
I got seen by being helpful, bydoing things, taking things off
of other people's plates.
So I then, you know, when ourkids were young, that was what I
(17:32):
was doing.
And yet resentment built, right?
Because you feel like you're notbeing seen in the need.
SPEAKER_04 (17:40):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
And and that all sounds, I just want to honor,
that sounds like a crazy mess.
Like, how would anyone untanglethat?
How would any husband know that,see that?
Uh, and I agree, that's why wehave to dive into our own work.
SPEAKER_03 (17:54):
Yeah.
And we often, when we're talkingabout those times, we say, you
know, there's this really hardcommodity of time that then gets
divided into, you know,obviously work, sleep, and then
time alone, time with yourspouse, time with your kids,
(18:14):
time with friends, time, youknow, maybe volunteering or
church or like like so there'sso many demands that pull at
that, and it's no wonder thatyou know, something it's
something suffers somewhere.
SPEAKER_04 (18:31):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (18:32):
And I think all too often we end up talking to
couples where it feels like oneperson's priorities don't match
the other person in the couples.
SPEAKER_04 (18:44):
Hmm.
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Yeah, I can see where that definitely it feels
like that's rubbing up, but Idon't know that that's always
what's actually happening.
But yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (18:57):
I mean, I can think of a few where with us.
I I mean, I can think of a fewof times with us, yeah, that it
was I'm really feelingexhausted, so I want to go do
something to take care of myselfor to, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
I'm not sure we used that language back then, but
okay.
SPEAKER_03 (19:18):
But like I want to go do something by myself, and
you were understandablyexhausted and were like, uh, I
just want to freaking get ashower.
So what like how do we figurethis out?
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:35):
And the communication sometimes wasn't
the best.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
For sure.
Because I don't think we knewhow to ask for what we needed,
and I don't think the otherperson, like, I do feel like
it's a two-way street in inmarriage, and this is part of
becoming one, right?
Learning to ask for your needs.
And also your spouse not alwayslike guessing perfectly, but
(20:00):
kind of like, hey, how how couldI help?
Like, what do you have going on?
What what do you need?
Do you need some like also yourspouse?
And we both do this, not justyou to me, because I were I was
the one home with the kiddos,but like, oh, you're having you
know, last week you had somereally long days.
I kept checking in.
What can I do?
(20:20):
Is there something I can do?
I'll make sure I get dinnerready.
Cause shocker, I don't like toget dinner ready.
As everyone knows, on stillbecoming one.
Um, but like, you know,recognizing those things.
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
So I think it is a you know, a give and a take of
like it 100% is awareness, andthat's the becoming one part,
right?
It is to use this storyworkword, it is attunement to what's
going on with your spouse first.
And like I don't think I wouldever go, oh, I'm gonna go hang
(20:58):
outside and read my book when Icould tell that there was
something that we needed to talkabout or something that you were
having a rough day with, or likeI don't, I just don't think I
would I would shift mypriorities that way because you
are my priority, and I want youto know that we can't always
(21:19):
always want be able to do whatwe think we need or want at the
time.
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Like that doesn't just because you voice it
doesn't constitute it always canhappen.
SPEAKER_03 (21:29):
I correct.
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
I mean, I'd like to be on a vacation right now,
wouldn't we all?
SPEAKER_03 (21:33):
Right?
Like exactly and but I do thinkthe issue is one of priority
that when something comes up,when something changes, it's how
do you show your spouse they'rea priority, even over, you know,
oh, I need some alone time or Ineed some autonomy time, you
(21:57):
know, kind of thing, whateverthat looks like.
I I have this hobby, I have thisthing that I'd like to do.
That's great, but those shouldoften fall under the my spouse
really needs me.
I do think it's hard when it'sagain, toddler phase, younger
(22:18):
kids, it feels like kids' spouseneed you all the time.
So then it is a sacrifice that'susually more of I think it's
more of a planned sacrifice forboth people.
Like you actually have to sitthere and talk about it and go,
okay, when when are you going toget your kind of alone time?
(22:40):
What what are you gonna do?
How can I make sure that we havethat time?
All right, then how am I gonnaget my alone time?
What you know, sure.
Or I want to go out with myfriends.
How how are you gonna find timewith your friends?
Like that you're purposelyhaving that conversation.
And I think so many couplesdon't have that conversation
because they're stuck on the Iside rather than like the the
(23:06):
together side.
SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
Yeah.
And and I think what you said isvital.
Like, how do we haveconversations?
How do we know ourselves wellenough to know what's helpful?
Um, because sometimes we tend tothink it's that I know I talk to
a lot of wives, and sometimes wetend to assume it's that big
(23:30):
ask, but it may not be.
It may be.
I 20 minutes in the shower wouldbe amazing, and I would feel
rejuvenated and ready to getback in there, right?
It doesn't always mean or fiveminutes, five minutes to go to
the bathroom all by yourselfwhen you have littles.
SPEAKER_03 (23:47):
Like without them.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
I remember the saying banging on the door.
SPEAKER_03 (23:51):
When I would, when you'd know we were having a
really hard board meeting or areally hard day, or something
was going on.
There were many times that youwould meet me at the door, I'd
meet the little kids, you know,give everybody hugs.
The little kids.
SPEAKER_04 (24:06):
Not littles anymore.
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
I know, but like, and then you know, you would
say, Why don't you go lay downfor 20 minutes?
And like that gift, it's morethan just the time, it's the
being seen.
And I think that's the part thatso many people miss.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:23):
And that's the becoming one part of even the
individual side.
It's having the opportunity tobe seen together and in each
other seeing each other.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Does that mean we go out for a party?
Seen together.
SPEAKER_03 (24:40):
It's more the this space of somebody actually sees
a need.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
It's complicated and it's also simplistic.
SPEAKER_03 (24:51):
Yeah, I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
Right?
It's and that's what makes ithard.
SPEAKER_03 (24:56):
It should be like it feels like this should be
obvious.
And I think that's why so manycouples end up fighting here.
Is because it's like, what's thebig deal?
This is obvious.
Of course, I love you.
Just because I'm going out tolunch with my friend doesn't
mean I don't love you.
But these fights happen becauseof attachment, because of like
(25:19):
some place abandonment.
Yeah, all kinds of uh parts ofour story.
Um it feels like I'm less of apriority.
It feels like I'm drowning here,and all you want to do is go to
your thing.
Like, I think there's a lot ofthose factors that end up
happening.
SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
Yeah, yeah.
And and I think just like wetalk about being curious, like
when something you feel it inyour body or you have that
thought, I think it's just beingcurious, right?
Like, even this morning.
Funny story about Brad.
We'll start with we'll do afunny story.
(25:58):
Oh boy, he's like, I don't knowwhere this is going.
Um, a long time ago, he tried tosign up for our business mail
box to tell us when mail wascoming because we have to go
pick it up.
And so it just, you know, it'sjust easier if we know that mail
is there instead of, but heended up signing up for our home
mail box to tell him everythingthat's coming.
(26:22):
And so this morning he was like,ugh, he's like, jury duty
notice.
And I was like, ha ha ha ha, youor me.
I I said ha ha ha ha.
And then I was like, wait, Iprobably should ask you or me.
Um, actually, neither of us havea problem with serving on jury
duty at all.
The challenge is that we haveyou have to clear your schedule
(26:43):
for three days when you may notbe doing it.
We actually don't mind servingat all.
It's more the clearing of theschedule.
And so he was like, me, and Iwas like, ha.
And then I was like, wait,Philadelphia or Lancaster?
And he so he went back andlooked, and it was Lancaster
because I was like, ifPhiladelphia, I'm coming with
you.
So I was like, don't leave mehere for three days.
(27:03):
And then I was like, I guess Ikind of have to work since
you're gonna be um right.
And just that curiosity, realquick, of like, oh, that felt
like, oh, if he has to go toPhilly for three days, I'm here
by myself.
I'm actually super fine being bymyself, but there is that
initial moment that I feel like,uh, because I spent a lot of my
(27:24):
childhood in my room by myself,right?
And feeling that abandonment,feeling that distance from my
parents.
And so it just hits me.
And then I remind myself, hey,like it's not the end of the
world.
I enjoy time by myself.
It wouldn't, it wouldn't sure,you know, and we have a dog, so
it's not like I'm completelyalone.
(27:45):
Um, but you know, just kind oflike being curious, and then,
you know, and I find I workthrough the things so much
quicker, and it's not a bigdeal.
And I made that comment to you,but it's gonna be Lancaster, so
you're not gonna be goneanyways.
But I mean, we are perpetual forsome reason.
People we get jury dutyconstantly a lot, a lot.
(28:09):
So we'll see, but then we neverget called.
SPEAKER_03 (28:12):
Yeah, you say I don't mind serving.
I don't, I wouldn't mind at allactually getting on something.
You actually talk about all thetime you never freaking get on
anything.
SPEAKER_00 (28:22):
Because you're because you're a therapist, and
then I never get on anythingbecause I'm a therapist's
spouse.
Yes.
So it's like, okay, so it's alsokind of a pain because we know
the likelihood of us beingcalled is very little.
So it's like, okay, this is justwhatever.
So, anyways, we'll keep youupdated.
Maybe, who knows?
(28:42):
Maybe you'll maybe this'll bethe time.
SPEAKER_03 (28:45):
Yeah, right.
It'll be one that I don't wantto get on, actually, but who
knows?
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
Last time I went, which wasn't that long ago, I
sat there all day and did getcalled into a jury selection,
but who knows why?
Got scratched.
I've gotten called severaltimes.
And then the judge sat andchatted with us, which was
really cool, actually, a reallycool experience.
But um, yeah, anyways, that wason to jury duty.
(29:10):
Well, but it's like that momentof like, okay, can I be curious?
Right, where does it be?
Does it have to take me over?
No.
And and I can also say, like,oh, well, if you're in Philly
for three days, I would missyou.
Like, that's also okay.
Of course, right?
SPEAKER_03 (29:26):
And so it's just like But I actually I love you
saying that because what whatyou're doing is getting into
your own emotions and and tryingto figure out where they're
coming from, the good and thehard, right?
Like, I of course everyone wantsto be missed.
If you know, if your emotion waslike, oh good, go, like that
(29:48):
would be weird, right?
Like, and and would beunhealthy.
If your emotion, so like we wantsome of that side, but then if
it's like no, no, you can't.
Go, like then it feels likeactually the government's gonna
make you possess.
SPEAKER_00 (30:04):
I would just have to you just have to drag me with.
I'd have to go with.
SPEAKER_03 (30:08):
But you know, then it I think that gets to this
place of like feeling like uh ohmy gosh, I can't have any time
by myself.
And I think there the happymiddle is found by really
looking at some of your ownemotions, what's going on, and
(30:28):
then how do you honor thoseemotions and take care of people
in the in between?
Like if somebody is reallyhaving a hard time with a spouse
leaving, then that probablyreflects some of their story of
attachment of what it meant tobe alone and some fear or
(30:50):
anxiety or things like that thatare coming up.
And I think that needs to behonored and taken care of.
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
Yeah.
And I and I do think it's it'sworth mentioning, like, we have
a betrayal journey too.
So like sometimes the thought ofyou being away somewhere without
me, that will come to theforefront too.
And that's that's important tobe honored and talked about as
well.
Because you can be years downthe road from a healing journey
(31:19):
with that, but that can stilldifferent things can still bring
up um certain emotions andcertain fears.
So, like I would say usually forus, that is a conversation we
have as well.
Um, and I just wanna, you know,I feel like that's fair
mentioned, and people canunderstand that on many
different levels.
(31:39):
Absolutely.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (31:41):
And I think that's the thing, these conversations
need to take place and need tobe able to take place.
And I I really would encouragepeople like to be talking about
what are things that you dotogether that you enjoy, that
(32:01):
you're really doing well to growthat togetherness, but then how
how do you how are you growinghealthy by yourself?
And what are those activities,what are those things you're
doing that help you to justrelax, take care of yourself, be
(32:22):
positive.
And those should be included,and there should be time for
both of you in both of that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
Yeah.
So I agree.
SPEAKER_03 (32:32):
It's hard stuff to kind of look at.
SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
I think too, it would be good um, you know, to
talk follow-up because talkingabout the still becoming one and
the you know, individual, thereis also a piece of it that I
think would be interesting forus to explore of like there's
(32:56):
also that, like, well, we'reone, we're individuals.
Where does the whole biblicalthing of like your body, my
body, like all of that come in?
Because unfortunately, I feellike the church has kind of
(33:16):
twisted that and made itinteresting.
So it would be interesting toexplore that as well.
SPEAKER_03 (33:22):
I I know you know you're talking about the first
Corinthians 7 that says, My bodyis is yours, your body is mine,
kind of idea.
And those verses have been usedto subjugate the lower desire
person in a marriage so often,which is more statistically
(33:47):
women being the lower desireperson.
And it those verses have beenused to say you're being bad if
you don't do whatever I want.
That is not at all the intent ofthose verses.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
Correct.
So we could just hash this outright now, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:06):
No, because it's actually relatively simple.
Those those verses are an offerand an opportunity, not a
requirement, right?
It is this place of explorationand beauty of offering to each
other those things that werejust for one person, that then
(34:28):
as you two become one, becometogether.
But it is not written as a thisis a requirement of you have to
offer even if you don't want to.
Like it's not, it's not atakeaway thing, it's a freedom
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (34:46):
And if you're not comfortable with that due to
your story or due to whatever,like that is something that
needs to be entered into uhcarefully.
And right, like, I mean, you andI joke about it all the time.
Like you're we do, we joke backand forth, but then again, we
(35:06):
joke back and forth a lot oftimes with stuff the church has
done poorly.
Anyways, but like we joke backand forth, but it it I know for
me there was a time where it waslike, oh, that feels like
possessive.
It yeah, and it felt like okay,because I was for years the
(35:27):
lower drive spouse.
But it also felt like get youract together, girl.
Like this is what the Biblerequires, this is what the
church is telling you, you'reone.
So like you don't have autonomyover your own body anymore.
SPEAKER_03 (35:45):
That's just not the case.
SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
Which is for many people's stories, that's really
difficult.
And and you can you can, I mean,not to get off on this too much,
but you can see the enemy's planin that, right?
Like, because he does.
I think the Lord did create itfor there to be this freedom in
that but we are broken people.
SPEAKER_04 (36:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:05):
So that freedom was in Eden, and and we don't we
can't even fully comprehend inour brains what that looked
like, correct, right?
And so we live in a space whereit's uh it's not that simple,
and people's bodies have beenobjectified, you know,
sexualized, both men and women,but uh men and women differently
(36:28):
too.
I guess we should just say that.
And the effect on women in theUnited States, I believe makes
that claim of that verse reallyhard, right?
Where we either enter marriagethinking we have no, like we
just have to do it, right?
You've grown up in a churchthat's just very strong-armed,
(36:50):
like deal with it, move on, it'syour space, it's what you're
supposed to do.
Um or we struggle or we try todo it for years, and then it it
breaks down, and it can be areason people can't find any
safety in their marriage, right?
Like how is that safe that yourbody is mine to do whatever I
(37:15):
want with it?
Obviously, the church was neverpromoting harm, like, but still,
but still, like it's harm ifit's not mutual.
SPEAKER_03 (37:25):
Correct, correct.
It is those verses are about anoffering and about freedom, not
about a demanded responsibility.
Yeah, that's it's just totallytaken out of that context.
And if you read those sameverses with a a thought of
freedom in them, it makes awhole lot of sense.
(37:48):
Like you're you're taking aplace where there was a cultural
kind of like, hey, hold yourbody back, we need to be
cautious.
Like some of the same thingsthat we talk about in purity
culture, right?
That were getting communicatedthat really they're saying, wait
a minute, like God made sex forus to enjoy together.
(38:13):
That's what it's talking about,is this freedom, not this like
obligation space that we'vewritten on top of it afterwards.
So I think that that autonomypiece of hey, I get to have a
choice even within my marriage.
I get to go, I don't, you know,I'm not comfortable with sex
(38:35):
tonight, I'm not comfortablewith sex now.
Like, can we try again later?
Like the that is that's thatfreedom exists and it's really
important.
SPEAKER_00 (38:46):
Yeah, no, totally.
And yeah, I agree with thatfreedom piece, and I think could
we look at it of I've been giventhe privilege as your spouse to
cherish your body.
Yes, right?
Cherishing means I find youattractive no matter what, I'm
(39:08):
gonna push some buttons.
Like, no matter what, like thatis my heart and my posture
towards you, and I'm gonnacherish it as much as I cherish
mine, although some people don'tcherish their own, so that that
can be its own, um, right?
But cherishing something,something we cherish, we don't
(39:29):
force things on it, we don'tdemand our own way.
We can have a desire, sure, butwe don't, yeah.
So I think trying to think of itthat way of like your body is
mine to cherish.
Yeah, I like and I have to honorwhat space you're in to be able
to cherish it, absolutely, andvice versa, absolutely, so yeah,
(39:52):
because I do think that comes upwith the one versus individual,
yeah.
I think you're exactly right,it's an important part, and we
are one body-wise, we are alsonot right, right?
Like, literally, until we weleave this earth, like I'm
experiencing things in my body,you can't feel them for me.
(40:15):
Like, we are separate, but weare one, which is God's really
cool thing, and I don't evenknow that I'll completely
understand it until I get toheaven, but so yeah, I just
think that was important at theend because it's free.
SPEAKER_03 (40:32):
I think that's an important part that people
ignore or twist individualversus united.
SPEAKER_04 (40:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (40:42):
So I am sure we're gonna have some people want to
respond to some of this, and wewould love to hear your
comments.
Feel free.
Yeah, yeah.
Feel free um to uh send us amessage, and we would love to
hear from you.
You can email us at help atstillbecoming one.com.
We would love to hear from you,even if you have questions and
(41:04):
you want us to go into somethingmore.
We would love to uh to hear fromthat as well.
So we hope that you continueyour journey on Still Becoming
One.
Until next time, I'm BradAldrich.
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
And I'm Kate Aldridge, be kind and take care
of each other.
SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldridge
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry,
courses, and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at Aldridge Ministries.com.
For podcast show notes and linksto resources in all of our
social media.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecoming one dot com.
(41:50):
And don't forget to like thisepisode wherever you get your
podcasts.
And be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
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