October 22, 2025 • 41 mins
A simple “You look great” shouldn’t start a debate, yet so many couples know that sting. We unpack the common loop where one partner stops praising because the other deflects. Diving into why compliments bounce off, how cultural messages tangle with personal story, and what it takes to make affirmation actually land. Instead of withdrawing, we offer a better path
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
SPEAKER_04 (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Now, as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches, we helpcouples to regain hope and joy.
SPEAKER_04 (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us as we are still
becoming one.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone.
Welcome back.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
Welcome back.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
What's your like new thing?
SPEAKER_04 (00:38):
I got it.
Every season I oh wait, and Isound like somebody I don't know
who.
Somebody that we had to explore,but every season I, you know,
gotta change it up.
Gotta have a new thing.
I mean, it's me.
When the kids call, I'm alwayslike, uh.
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
That's that's right.
SPEAKER_04 (00:59):
Welcome to my life.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
I just want to say, you look gorgeous this morning.
SPEAKER_04 (01:04):
Aw, thanks.
I see where that's going.
Now I'm like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
I need to put my I need to putmy phone on a focus here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:17):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04 (01:18):
I like that Apple named it focus because that
feels like that's do notdisturb.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
I I do think you look beautiful this morning.
And it's been a heck of a week.
SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
It has been.
It's been uh, yeah, like notMonday through Friday, just
since last Thursday.
SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
It's been a lot, yeah.
So um yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:43):
We we yeah, we did our first Allender weekend for
NFTC2, um, starting Thursdaythrough Sunday.
So that was amazing and at thesame time and heavy and oh, I
was gonna say like amazing andlike a wrecking ball.
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
Yeah, that's what I mean by intense and heavy.
Like you can't go through thatwithout it pulling up some of
your own emotions and your ownThat's the point, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04 (02:12):
Like, but it's like well, actually, I still go back
and chuckle to the one video wehad to watch preemptively before
the weekend where Dan Eller saysstarted with you might want to
ask yourself, what the heck haveI gotten myself into?
And I'm like, that's resonating.
It was resonating before, it'sdefinitely resonating in the
(02:35):
middle and after the firstweekend.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Yes, I can feel that.
And you know, they take thisphilosophy, which I agree that
you can only take people as faras you've gone yourself.
Yeah.
So then obviously in thesetraining times, they take an
opportunity to go there and kindof bring you to that place of
(02:59):
you need you need to work onthis stuff.
And so it's highlighting yourown things, it's highlighting
your own uh, you know, story andinsecurities and and woundedness
and all of that, which isawesome, but it is also heavy.
SPEAKER_06 (03:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
You know, I find myself telling my clients all
the time is you know, when we'redoing good work in a session,
there is a place that it's likegoing to the gym.
It's you're using your muscles,your body, your mind, and you
are tired.
(03:39):
Absolutely.
And you should be wrung out,right?
And you know, uh obviously Iwould say if you're going to
coaching or therapy and that'snever happening, maybe there's
some things to look at.
If it's happening every week,maybe there's some things to
look at too, right?
Like sure, it shouldn't be thatall the time, but uh it can be
(04:02):
really heavy, and that's exactlykind of how I felt the beginning
of this week after going throughall of that is like oh so, and
then we had a crazy week withthings happening and multiple
home repairs, home repairs, andso fun.
Literally two repair people atthe house at the exact same
(04:23):
time.
I'm like, you gotta be kiddingme, this is you know crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (04:27):
So it just is, it was it was, but we did it well,
and yeah, I think we did itwell, yeah, much better than we
used to.
Um, and yeah, the NFTC, like itis it is supposed to bring up
things, and I think there's theanticipation that it will.
(04:50):
But do we ever truly like knowwhat that will be?
And maybe we have some inklings,but like it um, I don't know
about you, but it's stillexpected and shocking all at the
same time.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Uh absolutely, absolutely, like it it is one
barometer to go, you know, oh,where did emotion show up?
And I think when you're doingthis kind of hard work,
sometimes it shows up insurprising places.
And you know, there was I wasexpecting.
(05:26):
I mean, one of the things thatthis level brings in is they
want to critique how you leadother people, which Kate and I
lead people in story works.
Or facilitate facilitate, right?
So we wanted that kind of level.
So I think I had thought a lotabout that of like how am I
(05:47):
going to handle being critiqued?
How like those kind of things.
I didn't have any emotionspecifically around that.
Like it was great feedback, itwas really positive to look at
some things, you know.
Oh, yeah, I mean, there's stuffthat we have to learn, uh, you
know, all that kind of stuff,but I didn't have any strange
(06:10):
any emotion necessarily pop uparound that.
There was there was one place inone of in one of my groups and
sharing some things about methat I'm like, oh wait, wow,
there that emotion just came outof nowhere.
What what is that?
Like, you know, and yeah, thenit's it is that kind of curious
(06:31):
space of like, okay, man, I'mwhat am I holding?
SPEAKER_04 (06:36):
Sure.
Yeah, exactly.
And I know for me that's notalways an easy untangle.
And I like right, it takes ittakes some time, some
reflection, some wrestling.
Yeah, like all that kind ofstuff.
And um, I definitely found thathappening for me as well.
And so it's all good stuff, it'sjust all exhausting, and yeah.
(07:01):
So we had a little bit of abreak.
We'll we'll be doing that againin December.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
So well, but we got work to do between now and
December, too.
SPEAKER_04 (07:10):
You you always say that.
Let's let's just spend a momentthere.
You always say that like my dad,like I don't remember that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
It's it's more honestly me because of my ADHD,
I can procrastinate.
And if I don't remind myself, Iwould literally be the one like
a week before going, Oh my gosh,I have all this stuff to do.
It it is totally me remindingmyself.
SPEAKER_04 (07:36):
Yeah, so I'm wondering like how much is
actually procrastination?
And I know for me, how much isjust life is coming up, and
there are regular things to doin your life, and I certainly
don't live in the space ofschool anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (07:55):
So, like, I I don't know, maybe maybe that's only
for me, but it feels like it isyeah, it is clearly more than
procrastination, right?
It is um, there's a millionother things, and and honestly,
I think some of the reason I sayit is because I don't live in
(08:16):
the world of school right now,so it's kind of way down the the
to-do list.
Um and because of that, it's oneof those things in my kind of
ADHD brain of out of sight, outof mind.
SPEAKER_04 (08:31):
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (08:33):
Almost just doesn't exist.
And then like then it's like, ohmy gosh, there it is, and now I
have to do it right away, and I,you know, don't take the time to
do as well as I want to, orsomething like that.
That's my my fear.
SPEAKER_03 (08:47):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (08:48):
It doesn't feel like I can procrastinate, I can
definitely procrastinate, butthat feels very different than
this um for me.
SPEAKER_04 (08:56):
Okay.
So gotcha.
Well, yeah, okay.
So we have work in between.
Yes, we do, dad.
But we but we um yeah, our nextgroup, our teaching time and
group session isn't untilDecember.
So I feel a little bit of spaceand I yeah, it hasn't even been
(09:21):
a full week, and so I definitelyam not plunging into that yet.
Although the next assignment isout, and I'm like, okay, like
what story do I want to work?
Yeah, do I want to work throughwhat that is definitely on my
mind?
So so that's kind of what we'vebeen doing for the past week.
It's been busy, it's been heavy.
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
It has, it has.
SPEAKER_04 (09:43):
So that's us, and and continuing to just figure
out um empty nesting.
It's fun, it's fun.
I think it's fun.
SPEAKER_02 (09:53):
I think it's yeah, it's been different and good,
and you know, it's just adifferent pace and schedule, and
yeah, yeah, for sure kind ofthing.
So it was fun to have Lily onlast last week and have been
able to kind of chat with herand um you know, talk a little
bit about what her experiencewas growing up in a marriage
(10:16):
positive house.
So that was that was kind offun.
SPEAKER_04 (10:19):
Yeah.
So for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (10:21):
So one of the things we wanted to talk about today is
a dynamic that I think I hearwhen I'm working with guys who
get honest about thisfrustration.
And I think it's also a reallyimportant dynamic in
relationships about this idea offinding your spouse attractive,
(10:46):
but even more so telling themyou finding your spouse
attractive.
SPEAKER_04 (10:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
And one of the things I hear from guys is a way
oversimplification of I'vestopped telling my wife that
because every time I tell mywife, oh, I think you look nice
today, what I get back is no, Idon't.
SPEAKER_04 (11:10):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
And so then they're going, I don't know what to do
because my wife says I don'tever tell her, and she's right,
I don't tell her anymore becauseevery time I told her, she
argues with me.
SPEAKER_04 (11:23):
She doesn't receive it.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:27):
Yeah, yeah, she's not receiving it.
She she is disagreeing with theguy's interpretation.
So I wanted to ask, what do youwhat is that about?
What happens there?
SPEAKER_04 (11:42):
And I see why you started with a compliment, sir.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
You are beautiful and I find you absolutely
beautiful.
SPEAKER_04 (11:48):
Same but with guy words.
Um, but I think honestly,because we're, you know, we're
so story work-minded, I wouldencourage curiosity first.
Like I know that's probably notnecessarily where you want to
go, but curiosity of what'screated that, yeah, right?
(12:08):
Because I don't think any womanor person in general, because
this can happen with um oppositegenders or whatever, it happens
to men sometimes as well.
Like, what has created thatinability to receive that?
SPEAKER_02 (12:30):
Because understanding that I think is
going to give you theinformation that will be helpful
more than just right, like justgoing on that is stopping her
from being able to receive thecompliment.
SPEAKER_04 (12:51):
Yes, there is story there.
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
So it's not that she doesn't actually believe her
husband finds her attractive,that there's something else
going on.
SPEAKER_04 (13:00):
Well, not necessarily.
Like she may not be able to reto believe it because of you
know what's what what's there.
And I think for women in theUnited States, and we talk about
this, the larger storyimplications are the culture we
grow up in of models,expectations, what you should
(13:23):
look like, which you know, howmuch of the population actually
looks like what the world, well,not the world, excuse me, the
United States defines asbeautiful, right, attractive,
fit, all of these things.
Like we have to honor that youboth grew up in that world, but
how it is portrayed and sold andexpected of women currently is
(13:48):
very different than how it'sportrayed, sold, and expected
for men.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (13:53):
Though I I want to honor some men do end up having
similar experiences with that,but for the majority, every
woman goes through it, yeah,unless you live in a hole.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
So your your meaning, and I and I just want
to bring this in, that you'refeeling like this is more of a
self-identity story, a what theythink about themselves story
than necessarily a relationshipissue.
SPEAKER_04 (14:25):
Hmm.
That's a great question.
I'm not sure I can answer thatbecause I think it's very
individual as art is story.
Like we can look at the largerculture story, but then how did
it integrate into your family?
Like were your parents, did yourparents um like how did they
(14:50):
handle things like that?
Did they talk about you?
Did they objectify you?
Did they expect things of you?
Like, or was it a very positiveaffirming, like you're beautiful
because you're you?
Like it's hard to know how itplayed out within your smaller
community and family, because Ido find this is one that we do
(15:15):
hear a lot more stories ofpeers.
Yeah, right?
Like you as again, even if youend up being homeschooled or
something, it still ends upgetting to you.
Of course it does.
It trickles in somehow becauseyou're not, again, you're not
shut off from the world.
Um, but especially people inpublic school settings and even
(15:36):
private school settings, likethe stories are much more
prevalent.
SPEAKER_02 (15:40):
Right.
In in adolescence, we start todefine ourselves by how the
group feels about us.
So it is a huge shift, and thosethings are mech mostly external.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, the the peer grouphas a huge influence on
(16:01):
self-image and those kind ofthings.
If I know when I'm working witha guy that talks about that, one
of the things I encourage themis to persist through, maybe is
the best word.
Like don't stop telling yourwife what you actually think.
(16:25):
Like, I'm saying be genuine, butdon't stop just because she does
that pushback.
I'm curious how yeah, what youwould say about that.
SPEAKER_04 (16:39):
Um, I I think that's wise, right?
Like we I think that's wise.
Like you want your spouse toknow that you value them, that
you find them attractive.
I think it's important, even ifit's hard for them to receive,
right?
Because there's already amessage going on in there that
makes it hard for it to receive.
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:01):
And desperately all of us want to believe our spouse
finds us attractive.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:07):
All like in in all those words and all those ways.
So removing it is probablyplaying out the story, like,
right?
So, like, and I know we're usinga lot of story lingo here, but
it's true.
I also honor that just becauseyou're saying it doesn't mean
(17:28):
it's necessarily getting inthere, like sinking in kind of
thing.
And I know that that could bereally frustrating for a spouse
trying to communicate that andfeeling like it just is not,
it's not getting in.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
Yeah, and I think most of the guys that I've heard
this from actually it's it'smore than not getting in because
I think the passive, oh no, I'mnot, you're just saying that and
moving on, it's fine.
And I think guys would naturallykind of just keep going.
I think the the thing thatsometimes happens is it becomes
(18:10):
almost a bigger argument of likenow.
We're talking aboutattractiveness, and now we're
talking about, well, there's allthese other people, and you
think about this person, andlike it becomes this whole huge
thing that is very different,and I think that's what scares
(18:33):
guys off of even knowing how tohow to say something.
Now, I don't think that's okay,and I think there's some of the
guys part in that.
SPEAKER_04 (18:42):
And you know, I I think sometimes you're hoping
for an easy answer from me, andI never seem to give them, but I
I also feel like there's there'struth in that, and that has
become part of our culture aswell.
That it and it I don't know howto say this in a way that
(19:04):
doesn't sound bad because Idon't want guys to feel like
they're the the problem, but wealso have cultivated a society
where checking out girls andrating them in their
attractiveness or whatever wordsyou want to use is very much
normal guy adolescence, butcarries into adulthood and
(19:29):
sometimes for the rest of theirlives that that's just a really
normal thing.
Interestingly enough, I wastalking to a client about this
recently, and I think, you know,there's a very big difference,
and uh, and we're we've I thinkin the marriage world tried to
define this, tried to give itwords.
Like there's a very bigdifference between someone
(19:52):
catching your eye and hoveringthere for a moment because,
like, for whatever reason itcaught our attention.
It's attractive.
Like you walk by a really coolcar you thought was cool.
Um, you walk by uh and saw someflowers, and you're like, wow,
right?
And moving on, and that becomingour world, and we do that all
(20:18):
the time, and we stay therelonger than we should, kind of
thing.
And that can happen on both bothgenders.
I'm not saying this isexclusive, but I do think it's
taught and accepted with guys,and some of it is natural with
adolescents.
Like we are starting torecognize um our sexuality and
(20:40):
what that what all of thatstirring up in us means.
Like this is a deeper topic thanpeople think.
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
And I think that's somewhat the point of it.
Is not just I think you're, oh,I think you look nice, no, I
don't.
And there, it's just thatsurface level.
It is a deeper topic.
I'm sitting here chucklingbecause I'm thinking I am not a
car guy, but I know car guys,and I know there are car guys
(21:08):
who would be like, you know,call their buddy and go, oh, I
saw this 69 Corvette, or youknow, I want to tell you about
and right like they would tryand snap pictures of the car.
Like, we don't mean that.
Like, that's not a good way ofrecognizing beauty.
SPEAKER_04 (21:27):
Well, but okay, well, but I think your example
is is a could fit.
I don't know, I feel like someanalogies never quite fit, but
like yes, that's acceptable withcars, right?
I'm not saying it's not, butmost people like something
(21:48):
catches your eye, we move onfairly quickly.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Correct, correct.
And I think that's the idea.
SPEAKER_04 (21:53):
That's a very normal response.
Like, we are like, yes, but wealso have to question and ask
ourselves and be curious whatshaped that, what's beautiful
for you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:07):
I agree.
I think we do have to questionthat.
I have taught against, to someextent, taught against the very
purity culture thing ofbouncing, you just need to
bounce your eyes, right?
That that guys do, because I dothink that has dehumanized a lot
(22:32):
of women, and without even themrecognizing it necessarily,
knowing it.
And essentially what it's doingis objectifying the person,
right?
And going, oh wow, that person'sreally beautiful.
I can't look at them anymore,and then like bound, you know, I
like kind of idea, which is sounhealthy.
(22:53):
And I especially it's unhealthywhen it's a person, an actual
physical person in front of you,right?
It that's that's when I talkabout it.
SPEAKER_06 (23:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Is and you know, this hit me, it was a long time
ago.
I was working with a pastor whowas telling me that that was his
way of dealing with people inhis congregation who he felt
were dressed inappropriately,and all I could just feel was
this place of you've got to bekidding me.
(23:25):
There's a whole ton of women whofeel like you can't even see
them, all you see is theirphysical form, not them.
Right, right, and that's just sodehumanizing, and I I I dislike
so I agree.
We do have to be cautious of ourwhen does looking become lust.
SPEAKER_04 (23:46):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (23:46):
Um, you know, I think we could debate that topic
for a really, really long time,and I think absolutely every guy
knows when.
Right?
There there is a line that getscrossed, and guys know when it
is.
And could we define it?
It's really hard to, but it youknow.
SPEAKER_04 (24:06):
But you know it's when it you know it when it's
there.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (24:09):
But and you know, everything you're saying is also
part of it's embodied in story,like that woman at church who's
dressing in a what you define asinappropriately, you're actually
playing out the story, right?
She's dressing inappropriately,or or maybe not, maybe it's not
inappropriate, right?
(24:30):
Because we tend to, yeah, churchtends to define that in some
really weird crappy ways.
Um, but then you aren't able tosee her.
She you're playing it out again,I would imagine.
I mean, I don't know.
I haven't talked to that woman,but like we're actually playing
it out again.
She is being unseen, right?
(24:52):
And so, um, and I just think,yeah, it's just it's not this
simple.
Um, I think there are all kindsof messages uh sold to young
girls and young boys about whatyou can expect from your life
and marriage, and that iswrapped in attraction.
(25:16):
Like, and I do think guys arekind of sold this with this
super saturation that every oneof you will marry some quote
unquote hot woman.
But that's not I did.
Oh, okay.
Uh but I actually I want toYeah, but we've worked really
hard to which we always talkabout in attractiveness.
(25:39):
Worked hard sounds bad.
We have been intentional about,but that's that's probably the
last half of our marriage oftrying to define each other as
the def definition ofattraction.
Attraction, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
And this is one of the things I do say all the time
that we need to keep working onand a relationship is our
definition, our model ofattraction is moldable.
It changes over our lifetime,and I'm so glad it does.
(26:16):
We can rewrite those pathwayswhen we need to, right?
And everyone does because thethings that you started feeling
were attractive when you were 12no longer are the same
definition of attraction thatyou have as an adult, right?
And we're really glad for that.
SPEAKER_03 (26:33):
I have some really curious questions about that.
We'll move on though, right?
SPEAKER_02 (26:37):
But that and that's the thing, like they they do get
shaped, they do get changed, andit is up to us to go.
My wife is my definition ofattraction, right?
And then using that as the rulerthat you judge everybody else by
(26:57):
exactly and they don't meet it,and it's okay because I have the
attraction one at home, right?
And I think it's that place ofcontinually working on your own
part of that, but to bring thisback to the relationship side, I
like I think there are a lot ofcouples who have just stopped
(27:17):
telling each other any of it.
And it's this interesting dancebetween an expectation that you
tell me every day and a it neverhappens, and we never take the
time to actually notice andenjoy and look at our spouse.
(27:38):
That's that is a tough coupledance, I think, for a lot of
couples.
SPEAKER_04 (27:45):
Yeah.
I don't know.
Most of us live somewhere in themiddle, although I hear sadly of
a lot of couples living on theone end.
Yeah.
And I am just curious, like whatyeah, what has what has led to
that?
What um yeah, I don't know.
(28:05):
I think it's it's it's somethingwe have to reflect on.
And you know, you and I have hadopen, honest conversations about
this, but every spouse wants tobe found attractive by their
like wants to feel like theirspouse is attracted to them.
I think that's super normal.
(28:27):
But I also think spouses don'twant to feel like, oh yeah, I
find you attractive, buthonestly, I find that way more
attractive, right?
Like that I think for a lot ofwomen, and again, we always want
to be cautious aboutstereotyping, but I think that's
the fear.
(28:48):
Right.
Okay, you might be telling methe truth, you find me
attractive, but you find someoneelse way more attractive.
Someone, someone, you know, whoknows?
It could be someone in yourcommunity, it could be someone
we see on TV or whatever.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (29:02):
Like I I totally agree with you.
We don't want that to be there.
SPEAKER_04 (29:07):
Well, let me let me ask.
Do you feel like I feel that's astruggle for women?
I don't think men have thatsimilar struggle.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Um, I think they can for sure, if it feels like a
woman is looking elsewhere.
Is a wife, yeah, a spouse.
So I think it can be.
I I think the bigger struggle isand I know guys come by this
(29:44):
reputation honestly, right?
That, oh, they're always lookingat the other person.
But I know a lot of guys who arelike, no, I am committed to my
wife.
I'm not looking anywhere else.
I don't I'm not having theseoutside influences but she is
(30:05):
constantly comparing herself tothe person down the road or the
person on TV or the the whateverand blaming me of no, you find
this person more attractive.
And it's like, wait a minute, II didn't bring that up.
You're bringing that up.
SPEAKER_04 (30:23):
Sure.
Well, actually her story isbringing that up.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
Very true.
SPEAKER_04 (30:28):
Right?
And that's not an invalidationor an excuse.
But it is a curiosity, and it islike, hmm, where does that come
from?
Right.
And like even encouraging ahusband who sees that happening
to, you know, kindly say that.
Like, where does that come from?
Because that's not me.
SPEAKER_02 (30:47):
I love that answer.
SPEAKER_04 (30:49):
But I honor it, it seems real to you.
Like, right?
Instead of the the indignant orbecause your story's interacting
with it, right?
Like, but just like it seems soreal that you believe that.
But I I want you to know that Igenuinely don't think that, but
it's coming up.
So where's it coming from?
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
I love that answer.
I think they're that place ofbeing willing and able to hold
her resistance.
So not just say, No, you'rewrong.
Or to just walk away, just walkaway and ignore or frustrated or
but to hold on to that and tolovingly say, I uh what I'm
(31:31):
telling you is real.
I would love you to believethat, but I recognize it's hard.
SPEAKER_04 (31:38):
Do you let's just you know hash this out here in
front of people?
Great.
Do you when I because I tend tocompliment you a lot?
Do you have trouble receivingit?
SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
Absolutely.
I and I think most guys havesome trouble receiving it too.
Like, I don't want to put thisonly on women.
I think men do.
I think men, I will just speakfor myself.
I think it is less a comparisonto or a fear of you're looking
(32:14):
at somebody else or any of thosekind of things, or I think you
think that person's moreattractive.
It's none of that.
For me that must be so nice.
I know.
I I'm sure.
But I for me, it is more a I maynot be where I want to be in
(32:34):
that area, that place, that youknow, how I look.
And so it's bringing up the Idon't feel good about it, so why
do you?
SPEAKER_04 (32:45):
Gotcha.
Okay.
Interesting.
Interesting.
But where does that where I wantto be definition come from?
SPEAKER_02 (32:54):
We're gonna do story work right here because you know
exactly where it comes from inmy story.
SPEAKER_04 (33:02):
Because your parents were such pushers of um like
regular exercise.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Is that what you're it it's it's that it's also a
and your mom was a nurse andthat overall health message that
I I get into, like my brain,when you say, you know,
something looks good orsomething like that, my brain
often is in this place of, yeah,but I'm still not healthy, kind
(33:29):
of thing.
I'm like, you know, and I knowthat is directly from my story.
And so I disregard it based onthose messages that I've heard
for and internalized for years.
Yeah.
Right.
So and I think that's not anydifferent than where what you're
talking about in where would youno?
SPEAKER_04 (33:48):
I think it's just yeah, I think it's just it's a
little bit differently nuanced,and and I think about, and if I
can say this respectfully, likeyour your family, your parents,
like they said that, but thenthere was this push on physical
health.
Sure.
(34:09):
But mental health didn't matter.
No, no, it's not didn't matter.
I don't feel that's fair.
I feel like it was there was alot of fear around it, so we
just didn't enter into thosediscussions, and then yet those
things were um present.
(34:29):
Uh I yeah, I don't know how tosay that in an honoring way, but
like the there was a big piecemissing.
SPEAKER_02 (34:38):
Sure.
I will say, like, when youcompliment something that maybe
at a time I was insecure aboutthat is not health related,
there's still that kind ofwrestle, but it is easier for me
to slow down and accept becauseit's not part of my story.
SPEAKER_04 (35:02):
I'm sitting here thinking, do you have an
example?
Okay, good, because I'm like, Idon't even know what that means.
SPEAKER_02 (35:07):
Like I was losing my hair for a long time.
SPEAKER_04 (35:12):
Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (35:13):
It's not health related, it's genetic related,
right?
And are you sure?
And yeah, hell um, andeventually, like I think several
times during that process, Ijust told you, like, you have to
tell me when it's when I need tojust shave it all off.
And we eventually got there.
I I'm not sure if it I think itwas both of us.
(35:35):
We're like, yeah, okay, let'sjust try and shave it all off.
And you know, so there's no likehealth-related thing here.
I think then when you telling methat you like the way I look
that way, that you like thosekind of things hits very
different.
SPEAKER_06 (35:53):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (35:53):
And I can still feel that, like, oh, but but I think
over time, as you've told me,then it's easier for me to go,
no, okay.
I I I like the way I look now.
SPEAKER_04 (36:06):
You're very distinguished.
And I think that also like we'vecome so far from when your dad
was a young gentleman losing hishair, like sure there weren't a
lot of options.
The comb over was the onlyacceptable option, right?
And and I feel for thatgeneration because it it we are
shaped by what the culture saysis okay.
(36:27):
And right, and and now I dothink some people actually shave
their heads because they preferthe look.
SPEAKER_03 (36:34):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (36:34):
Right.
Um, and so it is I am thankfulfor y'all out there that there
is a an answer though, for youthat is now people are like,
okay, like that is just what itwhat it is, you know.
And and I know some people getgray hair really young.
SPEAKER_03 (36:51):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (36:51):
Like there's all kinds of things that we can't
necessarily well, we couldchange if we choose to, but you
know, and okay, I got you onthat.
That kind of makes sense.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:03):
I think the big message from all of this is just
attraction, beauty, self-image.
All of those things tap soeasily into our stories of how
we feel about ourselves.
SPEAKER_04 (37:19):
So easily, but so deeply often, right?
And we think it's very surfacelevel because it's cultural,
right?
Yes, that's true, but I don'tknow a woman who doesn't have
stories around her body,regardless of what she looks
like, and if she would bedefined as the world's version
(37:41):
of beautiful.
Like I tend to say that becausethat's I think it's crap, but it
is true.
Yet, or I the United Statesversion of what's beautiful,
right?
But it is wild deeply embeddedin so much other stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
Which is why you do such an amazing work with women
around stories of their bodyimage.
And I think it's just such areally important part of story
work that you've been doing.
SPEAKER_04 (38:08):
And and we do spend a lot of time there, but I want
to honor it's challengingbecause it's the same reason I
say doing story work withteenagers is a bit of a
challenge.
I've done it sometimes because Ilove teenagers, is one of my
favorite categories of people,um, if that's a way to say it.
But um, it's hard to do storywork because they're still very
(38:29):
much living in it, right?
And so I think what'schallenging about body image
story work, self-esteem, all ofthese things, we're still living
in it.
SPEAKER_02 (38:39):
It's very present, right?
SPEAKER_04 (38:40):
You can't, and and maybe with your spouse, and
hopefully they can come intounderstanding the story and hold
it well with you, but they'restill right.
Again, you're not living in ahole, so you can't take out how
culture continues to impact it.
And so it is a challenging oneto work through because we're
(39:02):
never quite done with it.
Yeah, unfortunately.
And then you add to it, ourbodies are come always changing
due to age, due to many otherfactors.
And so it is a it is uh a one wehave to continually enter into,
which is hard for people.
SPEAKER_02 (39:19):
It's good, and this is such an important discussion
for couples to do as they'reaging, as they're walking
through life together.
SPEAKER_04 (39:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:30):
I hope that you can maybe use this podcast as a way
of having this conversation andkeep growing together.
SPEAKER_04 (39:37):
And if it if it gets tricky and whatnot, I would say
like find someone to talk toabout it who's storywork-minded.
Of course, you can contact AllChurch Ministries.
Shameless little plug there.
But uh, but there are otherpeople too, because I think if
sometimes it's a little hard tountangle, and if someone helps
you untangle, then you can enterinto those conversations very
(39:59):
differently.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
Very true.
SPEAKER_04 (40:01):
Very true.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
Well, we hope to hear from you.
You can always contact us withquestions or thoughts.
You can reach out to us at helpat stillbecoming one dot com.
Um, you can also follow us onInstagram, um, or we're starting
to post some more there too.
So that's at Still Becoming Oneon Instagram as well.
(40:24):
And we hope to see you next weekas we keep exploring what it
means to become one together.
Till next time, I'm BradAldrich.
SPEAKER_04 (40:33):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
SPEAKER_01 (40:41):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry,
courses, and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at Aldridge Ministries.com.
For podcast show notes and linksto resources in all of our
social media.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecoming one.com.
(41:03):
And don't forget to like thisepisode wherever you get your
podcasts.
And be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
SPEAKER_04 (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Now, as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches, we helpcouples to regain hope and joy.
SPEAKER_04 (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us as we are still
becoming one.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone.
Welcome back.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
Welcome back.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
What's your like new thing?
SPEAKER_04 (00:38):
I got it.
Every season I oh wait, and Isound like somebody I don't know
who.
Somebody that we had to explore,but every season I, you know,
gotta change it up.
Gotta have a new thing.
I mean, it's me.
When the kids call, I'm alwayslike, uh.
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
That's that's right.
SPEAKER_04 (00:59):
Welcome to my life.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
I just want to say, you look gorgeous this morning.
SPEAKER_04 (01:04):
Aw, thanks.
I see where that's going.
Now I'm like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
I need to put my I need to putmy phone on a focus here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:17):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04 (01:18):
I like that Apple named it focus because that
feels like that's do notdisturb.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
I I do think you look beautiful this morning.
And it's been a heck of a week.
SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
It has been.
It's been uh, yeah, like notMonday through Friday, just
since last Thursday.
SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
It's been a lot, yeah.
So um yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:43):
We we yeah, we did our first Allender weekend for
NFTC2, um, starting Thursdaythrough Sunday.
So that was amazing and at thesame time and heavy and oh, I
was gonna say like amazing andlike a wrecking ball.
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
Yeah, that's what I mean by intense and heavy.
Like you can't go through thatwithout it pulling up some of
your own emotions and your ownThat's the point, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04 (02:12):
Like, but it's like well, actually, I still go back
and chuckle to the one video wehad to watch preemptively before
the weekend where Dan Eller saysstarted with you might want to
ask yourself, what the heck haveI gotten myself into?
And I'm like, that's resonating.
It was resonating before, it'sdefinitely resonating in the
(02:35):
middle and after the firstweekend.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Yes, I can feel that.
And you know, they take thisphilosophy, which I agree that
you can only take people as faras you've gone yourself.
Yeah.
So then obviously in thesetraining times, they take an
opportunity to go there and kindof bring you to that place of
(02:59):
you need you need to work onthis stuff.
And so it's highlighting yourown things, it's highlighting
your own uh, you know, story andinsecurities and and woundedness
and all of that, which isawesome, but it is also heavy.
SPEAKER_06 (03:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
You know, I find myself telling my clients all
the time is you know, when we'redoing good work in a session,
there is a place that it's likegoing to the gym.
It's you're using your muscles,your body, your mind, and you
are tired.
(03:39):
Absolutely.
And you should be wrung out,right?
And you know, uh obviously Iwould say if you're going to
coaching or therapy and that'snever happening, maybe there's
some things to look at.
If it's happening every week,maybe there's some things to
look at too, right?
Like sure, it shouldn't be thatall the time, but uh it can be
(04:02):
really heavy, and that's exactlykind of how I felt the beginning
of this week after going throughall of that is like oh so, and
then we had a crazy week withthings happening and multiple
home repairs, home repairs, andso fun.
Literally two repair people atthe house at the exact same
(04:23):
time.
I'm like, you gotta be kiddingme, this is you know crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (04:27):
So it just is, it was it was, but we did it well,
and yeah, I think we did itwell, yeah, much better than we
used to.
Um, and yeah, the NFTC, like itis it is supposed to bring up
things, and I think there's theanticipation that it will.
(04:50):
But do we ever truly like knowwhat that will be?
And maybe we have some inklings,but like it um, I don't know
about you, but it's stillexpected and shocking all at the
same time.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Uh absolutely, absolutely, like it it is one
barometer to go, you know, oh,where did emotion show up?
And I think when you're doingthis kind of hard work,
sometimes it shows up insurprising places.
And you know, there was I wasexpecting.
(05:26):
I mean, one of the things thatthis level brings in is they
want to critique how you leadother people, which Kate and I
lead people in story works.
Or facilitate facilitate, right?
So we wanted that kind of level.
So I think I had thought a lotabout that of like how am I
(05:47):
going to handle being critiqued?
How like those kind of things.
I didn't have any emotionspecifically around that.
Like it was great feedback, itwas really positive to look at
some things, you know.
Oh, yeah, I mean, there's stuffthat we have to learn, uh, you
know, all that kind of stuff,but I didn't have any strange
(06:10):
any emotion necessarily pop uparound that.
There was there was one place inone of in one of my groups and
sharing some things about methat I'm like, oh wait, wow,
there that emotion just came outof nowhere.
What what is that?
Like, you know, and yeah, thenit's it is that kind of curious
(06:31):
space of like, okay, man, I'mwhat am I holding?
SPEAKER_04 (06:36):
Sure.
Yeah, exactly.
And I know for me that's notalways an easy untangle.
And I like right, it takes ittakes some time, some
reflection, some wrestling.
Yeah, like all that kind ofstuff.
And um, I definitely found thathappening for me as well.
And so it's all good stuff, it'sjust all exhausting, and yeah.
(07:01):
So we had a little bit of abreak.
We'll we'll be doing that againin December.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
So well, but we got work to do between now and
December, too.
SPEAKER_04 (07:10):
You you always say that.
Let's let's just spend a momentthere.
You always say that like my dad,like I don't remember that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
It's it's more honestly me because of my ADHD,
I can procrastinate.
And if I don't remind myself, Iwould literally be the one like
a week before going, Oh my gosh,I have all this stuff to do.
It it is totally me remindingmyself.
SPEAKER_04 (07:36):
Yeah, so I'm wondering like how much is
actually procrastination?
And I know for me, how much isjust life is coming up, and
there are regular things to doin your life, and I certainly
don't live in the space ofschool anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (07:55):
So, like, I I don't know, maybe maybe that's only
for me, but it feels like it isyeah, it is clearly more than
procrastination, right?
It is um, there's a millionother things, and and honestly,
I think some of the reason I sayit is because I don't live in
(08:16):
the world of school right now,so it's kind of way down the the
to-do list.
Um and because of that, it's oneof those things in my kind of
ADHD brain of out of sight, outof mind.
SPEAKER_04 (08:31):
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (08:33):
Almost just doesn't exist.
And then like then it's like, ohmy gosh, there it is, and now I
have to do it right away, and I,you know, don't take the time to
do as well as I want to, orsomething like that.
That's my my fear.
SPEAKER_03 (08:47):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (08:48):
It doesn't feel like I can procrastinate, I can
definitely procrastinate, butthat feels very different than
this um for me.
SPEAKER_04 (08:56):
Okay.
So gotcha.
Well, yeah, okay.
So we have work in between.
Yes, we do, dad.
But we but we um yeah, our nextgroup, our teaching time and
group session isn't untilDecember.
So I feel a little bit of spaceand I yeah, it hasn't even been
(09:21):
a full week, and so I definitelyam not plunging into that yet.
Although the next assignment isout, and I'm like, okay, like
what story do I want to work?
Yeah, do I want to work throughwhat that is definitely on my
mind?
So so that's kind of what we'vebeen doing for the past week.
It's been busy, it's been heavy.
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
It has, it has.
SPEAKER_04 (09:43):
So that's us, and and continuing to just figure
out um empty nesting.
It's fun, it's fun.
I think it's fun.
SPEAKER_02 (09:53):
I think it's yeah, it's been different and good,
and you know, it's just adifferent pace and schedule, and
yeah, yeah, for sure kind ofthing.
So it was fun to have Lily onlast last week and have been
able to kind of chat with herand um you know, talk a little
bit about what her experiencewas growing up in a marriage
(10:16):
positive house.
So that was that was kind offun.
SPEAKER_04 (10:19):
Yeah.
So for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (10:21):
So one of the things we wanted to talk about today is
a dynamic that I think I hearwhen I'm working with guys who
get honest about thisfrustration.
And I think it's also a reallyimportant dynamic in
relationships about this idea offinding your spouse attractive,
(10:46):
but even more so telling themyou finding your spouse
attractive.
SPEAKER_04 (10:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
And one of the things I hear from guys is a way
oversimplification of I'vestopped telling my wife that
because every time I tell mywife, oh, I think you look nice
today, what I get back is no, Idon't.
SPEAKER_04 (11:10):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
And so then they're going, I don't know what to do
because my wife says I don'tever tell her, and she's right,
I don't tell her anymore becauseevery time I told her, she
argues with me.
SPEAKER_04 (11:23):
She doesn't receive it.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:27):
Yeah, yeah, she's not receiving it.
She she is disagreeing with theguy's interpretation.
So I wanted to ask, what do youwhat is that about?
What happens there?
SPEAKER_04 (11:42):
And I see why you started with a compliment, sir.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
You are beautiful and I find you absolutely
beautiful.
SPEAKER_04 (11:48):
Same but with guy words.
Um, but I think honestly,because we're, you know, we're
so story work-minded, I wouldencourage curiosity first.
Like I know that's probably notnecessarily where you want to
go, but curiosity of what'screated that, yeah, right?
(12:08):
Because I don't think any womanor person in general, because
this can happen with um oppositegenders or whatever, it happens
to men sometimes as well.
Like, what has created thatinability to receive that?
SPEAKER_02 (12:30):
Because understanding that I think is
going to give you theinformation that will be helpful
more than just right, like justgoing on that is stopping her
from being able to receive thecompliment.
SPEAKER_04 (12:51):
Yes, there is story there.
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
So it's not that she doesn't actually believe her
husband finds her attractive,that there's something else
going on.
SPEAKER_04 (13:00):
Well, not necessarily.
Like she may not be able to reto believe it because of you
know what's what what's there.
And I think for women in theUnited States, and we talk about
this, the larger storyimplications are the culture we
grow up in of models,expectations, what you should
(13:23):
look like, which you know, howmuch of the population actually
looks like what the world, well,not the world, excuse me, the
United States defines asbeautiful, right, attractive,
fit, all of these things.
Like we have to honor that youboth grew up in that world, but
how it is portrayed and sold andexpected of women currently is
(13:48):
very different than how it'sportrayed, sold, and expected
for men.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (13:53):
Though I I want to honor some men do end up having
similar experiences with that,but for the majority, every
woman goes through it, yeah,unless you live in a hole.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
So your your meaning, and I and I just want
to bring this in, that you'refeeling like this is more of a
self-identity story, a what theythink about themselves story
than necessarily a relationshipissue.
SPEAKER_04 (14:25):
Hmm.
That's a great question.
I'm not sure I can answer thatbecause I think it's very
individual as art is story.
Like we can look at the largerculture story, but then how did
it integrate into your family?
Like were your parents, did yourparents um like how did they
(14:50):
handle things like that?
Did they talk about you?
Did they objectify you?
Did they expect things of you?
Like, or was it a very positiveaffirming, like you're beautiful
because you're you?
Like it's hard to know how itplayed out within your smaller
community and family, because Ido find this is one that we do
(15:15):
hear a lot more stories ofpeers.
Yeah, right?
Like you as again, even if youend up being homeschooled or
something, it still ends upgetting to you.
Of course it does.
It trickles in somehow becauseyou're not, again, you're not
shut off from the world.
Um, but especially people inpublic school settings and even
(15:36):
private school settings, likethe stories are much more
prevalent.
SPEAKER_02 (15:40):
Right.
In in adolescence, we start todefine ourselves by how the
group feels about us.
So it is a huge shift, and thosethings are mech mostly external.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, the the peer grouphas a huge influence on
(16:01):
self-image and those kind ofthings.
If I know when I'm working witha guy that talks about that, one
of the things I encourage themis to persist through, maybe is
the best word.
Like don't stop telling yourwife what you actually think.
(16:25):
Like, I'm saying be genuine, butdon't stop just because she does
that pushback.
I'm curious how yeah, what youwould say about that.
SPEAKER_04 (16:39):
Um, I I think that's wise, right?
Like we I think that's wise.
Like you want your spouse toknow that you value them, that
you find them attractive.
I think it's important, even ifit's hard for them to receive,
right?
Because there's already amessage going on in there that
makes it hard for it to receive.
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:01):
And desperately all of us want to believe our spouse
finds us attractive.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:07):
All like in in all those words and all those ways.
So removing it is probablyplaying out the story, like,
right?
So, like, and I know we're usinga lot of story lingo here, but
it's true.
I also honor that just becauseyou're saying it doesn't mean
(17:28):
it's necessarily getting inthere, like sinking in kind of
thing.
And I know that that could bereally frustrating for a spouse
trying to communicate that andfeeling like it just is not,
it's not getting in.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
Yeah, and I think most of the guys that I've heard
this from actually it's it'smore than not getting in because
I think the passive, oh no, I'mnot, you're just saying that and
moving on, it's fine.
And I think guys would naturallykind of just keep going.
I think the the thing thatsometimes happens is it becomes
(18:10):
almost a bigger argument of likenow.
We're talking aboutattractiveness, and now we're
talking about, well, there's allthese other people, and you
think about this person, andlike it becomes this whole huge
thing that is very different,and I think that's what scares
(18:33):
guys off of even knowing how tohow to say something.
Now, I don't think that's okay,and I think there's some of the
guys part in that.
SPEAKER_04 (18:42):
And you know, I I think sometimes you're hoping
for an easy answer from me, andI never seem to give them, but I
I also feel like there's there'struth in that, and that has
become part of our culture aswell.
That it and it I don't know howto say this in a way that
(19:04):
doesn't sound bad because Idon't want guys to feel like
they're the the problem, but wealso have cultivated a society
where checking out girls andrating them in their
attractiveness or whatever wordsyou want to use is very much
normal guy adolescence, butcarries into adulthood and
(19:29):
sometimes for the rest of theirlives that that's just a really
normal thing.
Interestingly enough, I wastalking to a client about this
recently, and I think, you know,there's a very big difference,
and uh, and we're we've I thinkin the marriage world tried to
define this, tried to give itwords.
Like there's a very bigdifference between someone
(19:52):
catching your eye and hoveringthere for a moment because,
like, for whatever reason itcaught our attention.
It's attractive.
Like you walk by a really coolcar you thought was cool.
Um, you walk by uh and saw someflowers, and you're like, wow,
right?
And moving on, and that becomingour world, and we do that all
(20:18):
the time, and we stay therelonger than we should, kind of
thing.
And that can happen on both bothgenders.
I'm not saying this isexclusive, but I do think it's
taught and accepted with guys,and some of it is natural with
adolescents.
Like we are starting torecognize um our sexuality and
(20:40):
what that what all of thatstirring up in us means.
Like this is a deeper topic thanpeople think.
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
And I think that's somewhat the point of it.
Is not just I think you're, oh,I think you look nice, no, I
don't.
And there, it's just thatsurface level.
It is a deeper topic.
I'm sitting here chucklingbecause I'm thinking I am not a
car guy, but I know car guys,and I know there are car guys
(21:08):
who would be like, you know,call their buddy and go, oh, I
saw this 69 Corvette, or youknow, I want to tell you about
and right like they would tryand snap pictures of the car.
Like, we don't mean that.
Like, that's not a good way ofrecognizing beauty.
SPEAKER_04 (21:27):
Well, but okay, well, but I think your example
is is a could fit.
I don't know, I feel like someanalogies never quite fit, but
like yes, that's acceptable withcars, right?
I'm not saying it's not, butmost people like something
(21:48):
catches your eye, we move onfairly quickly.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Correct, correct.
And I think that's the idea.
SPEAKER_04 (21:53):
That's a very normal response.
Like, we are like, yes, but wealso have to question and ask
ourselves and be curious whatshaped that, what's beautiful
for you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:07):
I agree.
I think we do have to questionthat.
I have taught against, to someextent, taught against the very
purity culture thing ofbouncing, you just need to
bounce your eyes, right?
That that guys do, because I dothink that has dehumanized a lot
(22:32):
of women, and without even themrecognizing it necessarily,
knowing it.
And essentially what it's doingis objectifying the person,
right?
And going, oh wow, that person'sreally beautiful.
I can't look at them anymore,and then like bound, you know, I
like kind of idea, which is sounhealthy.
(22:53):
And I especially it's unhealthywhen it's a person, an actual
physical person in front of you,right?
It that's that's when I talkabout it.
SPEAKER_06 (23:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Is and you know, this hit me, it was a long time
ago.
I was working with a pastor whowas telling me that that was his
way of dealing with people inhis congregation who he felt
were dressed inappropriately,and all I could just feel was
this place of you've got to bekidding me.
(23:25):
There's a whole ton of women whofeel like you can't even see
them, all you see is theirphysical form, not them.
Right, right, and that's just sodehumanizing, and I I I dislike
so I agree.
We do have to be cautious of ourwhen does looking become lust.
SPEAKER_04 (23:46):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (23:46):
Um, you know, I think we could debate that topic
for a really, really long time,and I think absolutely every guy
knows when.
Right?
There there is a line that getscrossed, and guys know when it
is.
And could we define it?
It's really hard to, but it youknow.
SPEAKER_04 (24:06):
But you know it's when it you know it when it's
there.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (24:09):
But and you know, everything you're saying is also
part of it's embodied in story,like that woman at church who's
dressing in a what you define asinappropriately, you're actually
playing out the story, right?
She's dressing inappropriately,or or maybe not, maybe it's not
inappropriate, right?
(24:30):
Because we tend to, yeah, churchtends to define that in some
really weird crappy ways.
Um, but then you aren't able tosee her.
She you're playing it out again,I would imagine.
I mean, I don't know.
I haven't talked to that woman,but like we're actually playing
it out again.
She is being unseen, right?
(24:52):
And so, um, and I just think,yeah, it's just it's not this
simple.
Um, I think there are all kindsof messages uh sold to young
girls and young boys about whatyou can expect from your life
and marriage, and that iswrapped in attraction.
(25:16):
Like, and I do think guys arekind of sold this with this
super saturation that every oneof you will marry some quote
unquote hot woman.
But that's not I did.
Oh, okay.
Uh but I actually I want toYeah, but we've worked really
hard to which we always talkabout in attractiveness.
(25:39):
Worked hard sounds bad.
We have been intentional about,but that's that's probably the
last half of our marriage oftrying to define each other as
the def definition ofattraction.
Attraction, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
And this is one of the things I do say all the time
that we need to keep working onand a relationship is our
definition, our model ofattraction is moldable.
It changes over our lifetime,and I'm so glad it does.
(26:16):
We can rewrite those pathwayswhen we need to, right?
And everyone does because thethings that you started feeling
were attractive when you were 12no longer are the same
definition of attraction thatyou have as an adult, right?
And we're really glad for that.
SPEAKER_03 (26:33):
I have some really curious questions about that.
We'll move on though, right?
SPEAKER_02 (26:37):
But that and that's the thing, like they they do get
shaped, they do get changed, andit is up to us to go.
My wife is my definition ofattraction, right?
And then using that as the rulerthat you judge everybody else by
(26:57):
exactly and they don't meet it,and it's okay because I have the
attraction one at home, right?
And I think it's that place ofcontinually working on your own
part of that, but to bring thisback to the relationship side, I
like I think there are a lot ofcouples who have just stopped
(27:17):
telling each other any of it.
And it's this interesting dancebetween an expectation that you
tell me every day and a it neverhappens, and we never take the
time to actually notice andenjoy and look at our spouse.
(27:38):
That's that is a tough coupledance, I think, for a lot of
couples.
SPEAKER_04 (27:45):
Yeah.
I don't know.
Most of us live somewhere in themiddle, although I hear sadly of
a lot of couples living on theone end.
Yeah.
And I am just curious, like whatyeah, what has what has led to
that?
What um yeah, I don't know.
(28:05):
I think it's it's it's somethingwe have to reflect on.
And you know, you and I have hadopen, honest conversations about
this, but every spouse wants tobe found attractive by their
like wants to feel like theirspouse is attracted to them.
I think that's super normal.
(28:27):
But I also think spouses don'twant to feel like, oh yeah, I
find you attractive, buthonestly, I find that way more
attractive, right?
Like that I think for a lot ofwomen, and again, we always want
to be cautious aboutstereotyping, but I think that's
the fear.
(28:48):
Right.
Okay, you might be telling methe truth, you find me
attractive, but you find someoneelse way more attractive.
Someone, someone, you know, whoknows?
It could be someone in yourcommunity, it could be someone
we see on TV or whatever.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (29:02):
Like I I totally agree with you.
We don't want that to be there.
SPEAKER_04 (29:07):
Well, let me let me ask.
Do you feel like I feel that's astruggle for women?
I don't think men have thatsimilar struggle.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Um, I think they can for sure, if it feels like a
woman is looking elsewhere.
Is a wife, yeah, a spouse.
So I think it can be.
I I think the bigger struggle isand I know guys come by this
(29:44):
reputation honestly, right?
That, oh, they're always lookingat the other person.
But I know a lot of guys who arelike, no, I am committed to my
wife.
I'm not looking anywhere else.
I don't I'm not having theseoutside influences but she is
(30:05):
constantly comparing herself tothe person down the road or the
person on TV or the the whateverand blaming me of no, you find
this person more attractive.
And it's like, wait a minute, II didn't bring that up.
You're bringing that up.
SPEAKER_04 (30:23):
Sure.
Well, actually her story isbringing that up.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
Very true.
SPEAKER_04 (30:28):
Right?
And that's not an invalidationor an excuse.
But it is a curiosity, and it islike, hmm, where does that come
from?
Right.
And like even encouraging ahusband who sees that happening
to, you know, kindly say that.
Like, where does that come from?
Because that's not me.
SPEAKER_02 (30:47):
I love that answer.
SPEAKER_04 (30:49):
But I honor it, it seems real to you.
Like, right?
Instead of the the indignant orbecause your story's interacting
with it, right?
Like, but just like it seems soreal that you believe that.
But I I want you to know that Igenuinely don't think that, but
it's coming up.
So where's it coming from?
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
I love that answer.
I think they're that place ofbeing willing and able to hold
her resistance.
So not just say, No, you'rewrong.
Or to just walk away, just walkaway and ignore or frustrated or
but to hold on to that and tolovingly say, I uh what I'm
(31:31):
telling you is real.
I would love you to believethat, but I recognize it's hard.
SPEAKER_04 (31:38):
Do you let's just you know hash this out here in
front of people?
Great.
Do you when I because I tend tocompliment you a lot?
Do you have trouble receivingit?
SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
Absolutely.
I and I think most guys havesome trouble receiving it too.
Like, I don't want to put thisonly on women.
I think men do.
I think men, I will just speakfor myself.
I think it is less a comparisonto or a fear of you're looking
(32:14):
at somebody else or any of thosekind of things, or I think you
think that person's moreattractive.
It's none of that.
For me that must be so nice.
I know.
I I'm sure.
But I for me, it is more a I maynot be where I want to be in
(32:34):
that area, that place, that youknow, how I look.
And so it's bringing up the Idon't feel good about it, so why
do you?
SPEAKER_04 (32:45):
Gotcha.
Okay.
Interesting.
Interesting.
But where does that where I wantto be definition come from?
SPEAKER_02 (32:54):
We're gonna do story work right here because you know
exactly where it comes from inmy story.
SPEAKER_04 (33:02):
Because your parents were such pushers of um like
regular exercise.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Is that what you're it it's it's that it's also a
and your mom was a nurse andthat overall health message that
I I get into, like my brain,when you say, you know,
something looks good orsomething like that, my brain
often is in this place of, yeah,but I'm still not healthy, kind
(33:29):
of thing.
I'm like, you know, and I knowthat is directly from my story.
And so I disregard it based onthose messages that I've heard
for and internalized for years.
Yeah.
Right.
So and I think that's not anydifferent than where what you're
talking about in where would youno?
SPEAKER_04 (33:48):
I think it's just yeah, I think it's just it's a
little bit differently nuanced,and and I think about, and if I
can say this respectfully, likeyour your family, your parents,
like they said that, but thenthere was this push on physical
health.
Sure.
(34:09):
But mental health didn't matter.
No, no, it's not didn't matter.
I don't feel that's fair.
I feel like it was there was alot of fear around it, so we
just didn't enter into thosediscussions, and then yet those
things were um present.
(34:29):
Uh I yeah, I don't know how tosay that in an honoring way, but
like the there was a big piecemissing.
SPEAKER_02 (34:38):
Sure.
I will say, like, when youcompliment something that maybe
at a time I was insecure aboutthat is not health related,
there's still that kind ofwrestle, but it is easier for me
to slow down and accept becauseit's not part of my story.
SPEAKER_04 (35:02):
I'm sitting here thinking, do you have an
example?
Okay, good, because I'm like, Idon't even know what that means.
SPEAKER_02 (35:07):
Like I was losing my hair for a long time.
SPEAKER_04 (35:12):
Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (35:13):
It's not health related, it's genetic related,
right?
And are you sure?
And yeah, hell um, andeventually, like I think several
times during that process, Ijust told you, like, you have to
tell me when it's when I need tojust shave it all off.
And we eventually got there.
I I'm not sure if it I think itwas both of us.
(35:35):
We're like, yeah, okay, let'sjust try and shave it all off.
And you know, so there's no likehealth-related thing here.
I think then when you telling methat you like the way I look
that way, that you like thosekind of things hits very
different.
SPEAKER_06 (35:53):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (35:53):
And I can still feel that, like, oh, but but I think
over time, as you've told me,then it's easier for me to go,
no, okay.
I I I like the way I look now.
SPEAKER_04 (36:06):
You're very distinguished.
And I think that also like we'vecome so far from when your dad
was a young gentleman losing hishair, like sure there weren't a
lot of options.
The comb over was the onlyacceptable option, right?
And and I feel for thatgeneration because it it we are
shaped by what the culture saysis okay.
(36:27):
And right, and and now I dothink some people actually shave
their heads because they preferthe look.
SPEAKER_03 (36:34):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (36:34):
Right.
Um, and so it is I am thankfulfor y'all out there that there
is a an answer though, for youthat is now people are like,
okay, like that is just what itwhat it is, you know.
And and I know some people getgray hair really young.
SPEAKER_03 (36:51):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (36:51):
Like there's all kinds of things that we can't
necessarily well, we couldchange if we choose to, but you
know, and okay, I got you onthat.
That kind of makes sense.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:03):
I think the big message from all of this is just
attraction, beauty, self-image.
All of those things tap soeasily into our stories of how
we feel about ourselves.
SPEAKER_04 (37:19):
So easily, but so deeply often, right?
And we think it's very surfacelevel because it's cultural,
right?
Yes, that's true, but I don'tknow a woman who doesn't have
stories around her body,regardless of what she looks
like, and if she would bedefined as the world's version
(37:41):
of beautiful.
Like I tend to say that becausethat's I think it's crap, but it
is true.
Yet, or I the United Statesversion of what's beautiful,
right?
But it is wild deeply embeddedin so much other stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
Which is why you do such an amazing work with women
around stories of their bodyimage.
And I think it's just such areally important part of story
work that you've been doing.
SPEAKER_04 (38:08):
And and we do spend a lot of time there, but I want
to honor it's challengingbecause it's the same reason I
say doing story work withteenagers is a bit of a
challenge.
I've done it sometimes because Ilove teenagers, is one of my
favorite categories of people,um, if that's a way to say it.
But um, it's hard to do storywork because they're still very
(38:29):
much living in it, right?
And so I think what'schallenging about body image
story work, self-esteem, all ofthese things, we're still living
in it.
SPEAKER_02 (38:39):
It's very present, right?
SPEAKER_04 (38:40):
You can't, and and maybe with your spouse, and
hopefully they can come intounderstanding the story and hold
it well with you, but they'restill right.
Again, you're not living in ahole, so you can't take out how
culture continues to impact it.
And so it is a challenging oneto work through because we're
(39:02):
never quite done with it.
Yeah, unfortunately.
And then you add to it, ourbodies are come always changing
due to age, due to many otherfactors.
And so it is a it is uh a one wehave to continually enter into,
which is hard for people.
SPEAKER_02 (39:19):
It's good, and this is such an important discussion
for couples to do as they'reaging, as they're walking
through life together.
SPEAKER_04 (39:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:30):
I hope that you can maybe use this podcast as a way
of having this conversation andkeep growing together.
SPEAKER_04 (39:37):
And if it if it gets tricky and whatnot, I would say
like find someone to talk toabout it who's storywork-minded.
Of course, you can contact AllChurch Ministries.
Shameless little plug there.
But uh, but there are otherpeople too, because I think if
sometimes it's a little hard tountangle, and if someone helps
you untangle, then you can enterinto those conversations very
(39:59):
differently.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
Very true.
SPEAKER_04 (40:01):
Very true.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
Well, we hope to hear from you.
You can always contact us withquestions or thoughts.
You can reach out to us at helpat stillbecoming one dot com.
Um, you can also follow us onInstagram, um, or we're starting
to post some more there too.
So that's at Still Becoming Oneon Instagram as well.
(40:24):
And we hope to see you next weekas we keep exploring what it
means to become one together.
Till next time, I'm BradAldrich.
SPEAKER_04 (40:33):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
SPEAKER_01 (40:41):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry,
courses, and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at Aldridge Ministries.com.
For podcast show notes and linksto resources in all of our
social media.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecoming one.com.
(41:03):
And don't forget to like thisepisode wherever you get your
podcasts.
And be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
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