April 23, 2025 • 42 mins
Special guest Adam Young joins us to discuss his new book, Make Sense of Your Story.
What if the relationship patterns you can't seem to break are rooted in stories you've never fully understood? Adam Young, therapist and host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast, joins us to explore how our earliest experiences continue to shape our most intimate relationships—and what we can do about it.
Whether you're struggling in your marriage, trying to parent differently than you were parented, or simply curious about why you relate to others the way you do, this conversation offers a compassionate roadmap for making sense of your story. As Adam reminds us, "Your stories need to be written and they need to be told." Are you ready to discover what's truly at the core of yours?
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Episode Transcript
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Brad Aldrich (00:04):
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Kate Aldrich (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Brad Aldrich (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Kate Aldrich (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are still
becoming one.
Brad Aldrich (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to Still Becoming One.
We are so excited to be heretoday and we're joined by a
special guest.
Why don't you introduce ourguest for us today?
Kate Aldrich (00:44):
Sure, I would love to.
Today's guest is someone whosevoice has guided countless
people into deeper healing,clarity and connection.
Adam Young is a therapist,teacher and the host of the
Place we Find Ourselves podcast,a show that has become a
lifeline for so many seeking tomake sense of their stories
through the lens of bothneuroscience and faith.
(01:06):
He holds a master's degree indivinity and counseling and is
trained extensively in traumacare, narrative therapy and the
work of Dan Allender.
But more than his credentials,what sets Adam apart is his
ability to name the ache betweenour patterns and to do so with
compassion, clarity and courage.
(01:26):
Today we're talking about hisbrand new book Make Sense of
your Story A Path to Clarity,healing and Connection.
Whether you're new to the workof engaging your story or have
been walking this road for awhile, this conversation will
invite you deeper into thegoodness of God's pursuit and
your own heart.
Adam, welcome to the podcast.
(01:47):
We're so glad to have you here.
Adam Young (01:49):
Thank you, kate.
It's good to be with you all,yeah.
Kate Aldrich (01:52):
Thank you, it's awesome, we're excited.
Brad Aldrich (01:55):
Yeah, we are really excited.
We got a chance to read thebook and just loved it.
We've been talking here aboutstory work and the purpose of it
and, adam, you just bring suchgreat language to some of that.
You say often that story shapeseverything.
(02:17):
How do you hope that yourreaders will experience that as
kind of engaging with your book?
Adam Young (02:26):
will experience that as kind of engaging with your
book.
Well, when I talk about yourstory, I'm not primarily talking
about like a 30,000 footoverarching narrative of your
life, from zero until howeverold you are and I think that's
how many people think aboutstory when they hear the story
of your life.
But I'm really inviting thereader to step into is two,
three, four, five of the pivotalstories, scenes, incidents from
(02:52):
their growing up years thatwere either harmful, traumatic,
abusive, but that have stayedwith them in their bodies, in
their memory, and they may notknow why.
They may not know why Iremember this thing.
I just do.
And let me also say this at theoutset you don't need to
(03:14):
remember the whole story for itto be a story that shaped you.
None of us have photographic,like video replay capacity,
memories of the whole event.
So I'm inviting you what arethe fragments of memories, that
thing that happened when youwere 12 years old, that no one
(03:35):
ever talks about, but you stillremember?
What are the scenes, theincidents from your growing up
years that may have an effect onthe way you relate today as an
adult.
Maybe you're 55 years old.
That happened, you know, whenyou were five, when you were 10,
(03:56):
when you were 15,.
My contention is that thosestories are still playing out in
your present life, presentday-to-day life.
Kate Aldrich (04:04):
Yeah, for sure, and we you know, brad and I, in
our practice, like we, we meetwith lots of different people,
but when we meet with couples Ithink that's you know people
will often be coming for tools,which is great.
Tools are super helpful andsometimes they're needed because
we need to learn different waysand strategies and things like
(04:27):
that.
But often, brad and I say wecan give you as many tools as
you want, but until weunderstand why you're doing what
you're doing, what's're oftentrying to help couples to
understand, and I don't know.
(04:47):
But I love the example youtalked about, you and your wife,
and like trying to figure outthat dynamic of her wanting you
to pursue her, spend time withher, all of that and like being
able to understand why that wasa challenge for you.
Adam Young (05:04):
Right, yeah, so yeah , so great example.
So in my own marriage, my ownlife like, my wife frequently
comes to me and said over theyears in marriage counseling
she's brought to our therapytimes hey, adam, it would really
be good for my heart if youpursued me more, if you asked me
(05:24):
more about what's going on forme, if there was more
intentionality in your pursuitof my heart.
Now if what was offered to mewas the tool of you know?
Hey, put it on your calendar.
Set an iPhone alarm or somethinglike I'm not dismissing the
helpfulness of certain tools.
Sure, here's what I'm saying inthe book.
(05:44):
Until I understand what's goingon in my nervous system, based
on my experience, in this casewith my mother, that's
inhibiting me from naturallypursuing my wife's heart, then
I'm going to be blocked, nomatter what arsenal of tools has
(06:05):
been given to me.
Why?
Because we are.
We have neurons, we are deeplylimbic beings.
Your limbic system is a deeppart of your brain that drives
your motivation, your emotion.
It's very instrumental in howyou relate to other people,
especially close marriage.
You know intimate relationships, and so I needed to understand
(06:28):
I need present tense tounderstand that I was deeply
violated, in an enmeshed kind ofway, by my mother, and so
there's something inside of methat says something inside of me
that says I don't want to gettoo close to and I'll put it
this way the woman, the woman inmy life, sure, and I need to
(06:56):
understand that.
I need to have grief about that, I need to have anger about
that If I'm going to show up forCaroline, my wife, the way she
needs me to.
Brad Aldrich (07:03):
Yeah, so, so good, it is really good.
I think there are so many,let's just say, guys out there
but people in general out therethat have had that thing that
their spouse has asked them todo over and over again, and they
go yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll geton that or I'll think about that
, and yet it kind of just slidesinto the background again.
(07:25):
What was it that helped you togo?
Okay, there's got to besomething else going on here.
Adam Young (07:33):
Well, I had stepped into some of the complexities of
my story with regard to my mom.
You know, starting as about a35-year-old man, I began to
explore the nature of myrelationship with my mother and
what I uncovered, what what thestories that I remembered really
pointed to was.
(07:54):
I was in a very what's calledtriangulated relationship with
my mother.
In other words, my dad wasemotionally checked out of their
marriage and my mom looked tome her son, for emotional
support, companionship, guidance, intimacy, and in time, that
(08:14):
became sexualized, and what Imean by that is there was an
erotic energy between my mom andI.
How do I know that?
Well, one example is when shewould hug me.
There was a sense of energyflowing out of me like being
taken and consumed rather thanme receiving, and I always
wanted to break off the hugbefore she did.
Brad Aldrich (08:34):
There was something.
Adam Young (08:35):
Here's the triangulated sexualized
relationship with my mom.
Kate Aldrich (08:47):
Yeah.
Adam Young (08:48):
And the implication of that is that stuff inside of
me is not going away and it'sbeing brought into my present
day relationship with my wife.
And so I married a woman whothis will come as no surprise it
(09:09):
was is avoidantly attached,which means she didn't require
anything of me as a 19, 20, 21year old when we were dating
like she and I, and it was like.
My heart was like oh, I canrest in this, I don't have to
tend to this woman.
She's not dysregulated in mypresence and asking me to soothe
(09:31):
her tend to her, bring her backfrom the abyss.
She seems to be superself-sufficient.
Yeah, and I was like I canbreathe, I can breathe and
breathe.
The dilemma with that is she isalso created in the image of a
(09:52):
we and not an I, and thereforeshe needs relational care.
Kate Aldrich (09:54):
Yeah, right.
Adam Young (09:54):
No matter how avoidantly attached she is.
And as she heals and grows fromage, you know, when we start
dating in college into herthirties from age, you know,
when we start dating in collegeinto her thirties, into her
forties, as she heals and grows,her need for my care is going
to actually increase, becausethat's how human beings are
wired for relationship andthat's going to, you can see it,
(10:16):
that's going to create like asuffocation for me and it's and
it's almost like my nervoussystem recoils against the woman
that I'm married to, askingwhat my mom asked of me.
But she's not doing that, but itfeels like she is.
Kate Aldrich (10:38):
Sure, exactly yeah .
Brad Aldrich (10:40):
It's really good, it is good.
I want to push even further,because we've done some of that
like okay, you can get theinsight, the connection.
Oh, look at how these thingsset you up for this type of
relationship.
How did the insight, havingthat light bulb go off start to
change the behavior with yourwife?
(11:02):
Did you find it easier all of asudden to start doing that
connection?
Did you what?
What was different?
Adam Young (11:10):
Naming harm, naming the dynamic is, I would say,
more than 50% of the battle tochange and healing.
Just naming what's going on.
Right is more than 50% of theway to healing growth change.
So for so many people they feellike they need to do something
(11:35):
differently in their intimaterelationships.
And sure, great.
But what if naming the waysyou've been set up for the
dynamic what Sue Johnson callsthe dance of your marriage, is
going to take you further thanputting an alarm in your iPhone
to ask your wife how she's doing?
Kate Aldrich (11:56):
Yeah, exactly, Exactly.
Yeah, it's so good.
And you know you spoke of thedance and and you know this
process, as Dan Allender says,makes us curious, Like there's a
.
There are pieces for your wifetoo from her story and I don't
know anything about her storythat play into these things as
well, and I love that you said.
(12:18):
But as we grow and heal, thatneed will grow and heal in a
positive, a positive way way,and and so then the interaction
between husband and wife cangrow and heal in really
beautiful ways, which I thinkwe've seen for us, we've seen
for some of our clients, and.
(12:38):
But I like that you named that,because I think that can
sometimes feel intimidating,right, Because if we're not, and
sometimes in relationships andfor us too, sometimes we're not
healing or growing at the samerate, and so then how do we walk
(12:59):
alongside of and hold ourspouse's story?
Well, yeah.
It becomes, as you said, a dance, but it also, at times, can be
challenging.
Brad Aldrich (13:13):
Yeah, and not using it as a weapon, right?
We've seen that and I don'tknow if you've had a temptation
of that of like, oh, that's justyour story coming out kind of
against each other instead ofwith each other.
Adam Young (13:27):
Yes, yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up.
That happens with couples allthe time and it's just so
heartbreaking you should neverlike.
There's nothing helpful abouttelling someone.
Your story is the reason we'rehaving such a hard time right
(13:49):
now.
The sentence might be a hundredpercent true.
Kate Aldrich (13:52):
Okay, but it's an accusation.
Adam Young (13:55):
right, it's an accusation, and accusations are
thinly veiled versions ofcontempt.
And as we know from theGottman's like, contempt is a
killer in romantic relationships.
And so the opposite of that,brad, I would say, is you need
to get a PhD in how your spousewas wounded.
That's the way I say it, that'sreally good.
(14:16):
You need to have curiosityabout your spouse's story and
know it so well that you have anunderstanding for why he or she
is the way they are, and thatdoesn't mean they're going to
stay that way.
But you need to understand whytheir nervous system reacts to
(14:40):
you the way it does, becausethere's a reason for that.
That's the premise of the book.
There's a reason why we relateto people the way we do.
There's a reason why we'restuck in the ways we're stuck.
It's not random.
Brad Aldrich (14:55):
Yeah, no, it's not , and this may bring us back to
kind of the start, but I thinkit's an important thing, because
one of the things I hear allthe time as I kind of try to
open those doors of woundednessor understanding deeper things,
is this objection that sayssomething like oh, I was raised
(15:16):
in a Christian home.
My parents tried their best.
Overall, I had a pretty goodchildhood.
Done, can we just move on tothe normal things now?
Right, yeah, how do you relateto that?
How do you answer that kind ofpseudo-honor objection?
Adam Young (15:34):
Well, it's really odd for Christians to say
because Christians believe inthe Bible and according to the
Bible, no one does the best theycan.
You sometimes do the best youcan and you sometimes don't.
That's what it means to be asinner.
So, according to the Bible, youhave to grapple with the fact
(15:56):
that you do harm, and you alsohave to grapple with the fact
that your parents did harm, andsome of that harm was
intentional and some of thatharm was intentional and some of
that harm was unintentional.
Kate Aldrich (16:12):
Sure.
Adam Young (16:13):
So have you put down on a piece of paper some
bullets of the primary ways yourfather harmed you when you were
living in your home growing up,and on the bottom half of that
paper, can you bullet out someof the key ways that your mother
(16:34):
harmed you?
And if you can't, then it's notmerely that you're not honoring
your father and mother, becausehonor requires honesty, but far
more it's.
You're living an illusion,you're living in denial, you've
got your head in the sand aboutwhat actually went down for you
(16:56):
as a boy or a girl and that thatwill leak out in your romantic
relationships in really yucky,damaging ways, in your romantic
relationships in really yuckydamaging ways.
Brad Aldrich (17:08):
Yeah, so then I'm going to turn the table on that.
Kate Aldrich (17:15):
How do?
Adam Young (17:15):
you have that not terrify you as a parent, that's
a question.
We get a lot.
Yeah, the way you have that notterrify you as a parent is
twofold.
Number one you need a savior,you need a rescuer, you need the
spirit of God to heal yourchildren from the harm that
you've done.
(17:36):
But that's okay.
We're celebrating Eastershortly.
That's what Easter is all about.
God got involved and is on arescue mission and loves your
children deeply.
So that's number one.
But number two repair ispossible in the land of the
(17:56):
living.
There is no way to avoid doingharm.
However, there are lots of waysto repair harm.
Sadly, many people have notexperienced repair from their
parents.
In other words, especiallypeople that have a history of
(18:16):
trauma, when they think ofsaying to mom mom, could we talk
about some of the ways you hurtme when I was growing up?
It's like, it's like they'relike.
I could never say that sentenceto my mother.
Well, okay, then you've got areally big bind on your hands
because there's no way to moveforward if someone is not
(18:38):
willing to discuss, repair.
Kate Aldrich (18:39):
Yeah, Sure, yep, absolutely.
But our kids are between 21 and17.
And probably at nauseam we'relike remember, if you guys ever
need to talk to us about thingswe haven't done, well we are
here.
We know, mom, we know.
But just making that an offerto them, an offer of repair?
Adam Young (19:02):
Yes.
Kate Aldrich (19:04):
And then I mean, we had one of our kiddos at
Christmas time come and bringsomething to us and then
actually being able to sit withthem, and I got to admit, as a
parent, it was hard, hard, right, it is not a pretty process,
but it's also beautiful and Iwas so thankful that that kiddo
(19:26):
was willing to open up to us,even though it was heartbreaking
, because it's a mirror and it'sas you said.
I need a rescuer and I have tosit with that.
At times that like, yep, asmuch as I might intend to do,
well, I didn't.
And so, yeah, it's a hardprocess and I love both of those
(19:46):
and that's what I know.
I work with a lot of women,moms, and when we start to do
their story work, they can getvery stuck in.
Oh, I'm doing this to my kids,right, first address you, the
little you, and then we can talkmore about, like, how do you
(20:08):
engage that process with yourkids to to hopefully change
generations for the positive?
Brad Aldrich (20:14):
yeah, so, yeah, it's tough it is hard, it's
tough, adam.
You kind of talked about repairas one of the big six that you
mentioned in your book of thingsthat are important in
relationships, and I don't knowwe'll have time to talk about
(20:35):
all six of those, but they arereally important things of
engaging, both where we can growinto healthier relationships,
but also places where we werenot given, things that we missed
.
I'm curious, as you've kind ofexplored stories, your own and
(20:58):
others, what's kind of thesurprising one of the big six
that kind of comes out ofnowhere and goes oh, that was
missing that kind of comes outof nowhere and goes oh, that was
missing.
Adam Young (21:15):
Oh, for me, the biggest of the big, the one
that's the most heart-wrenchingfor me, is that in my story is
number four, which is you neededyour parents to be able to
regulate your affect as a boy ora girl, and in my family I was
a deeply sensitive boy who had alot of big feelings and.
I was asked to regulate myparents' affect and they would
never regulate mine, and that isthat is tormenting for a child.
(21:39):
A child's brain needs acontainer of soothing and care
when that child becomesdysregulated in their body which
happens all the time tochildren and when that container
is not there, when mom and dadare not willing to sit on the
foot of your bed, put their handon your ankle, on your shoulder
(22:03):
, and say you know what was itlike for you that you were so
hopeful about playing in yoursoccer game and you sat on the
bench for the entire game.
What are you?
What's that disappointment likefor you?
How are you doing?
What do you need?
How can we support you?
We are in this with you.
(22:24):
Let me tell you about a time ofdeep disappointment in my.
When those conversations ofaffect regulation are not
happening.
The child is left withunbelievably big feelings that
they can't regulate on their ownbut they have to, and that
that's really damaging to thebrain.
Kate Aldrich (22:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Brad Aldrich (22:48):
And I think that you just mentioned one of the
places that I really like thisbook is.
You do kind of bring in some ofthe neuroscience, that this is
not just hey, you know, we haveto talk about the bad things
that happened to you, of how ourbrain was formed and why these
stories are so significant.
Can you tell us a little bit ofwhat you learned in how stories
(23:20):
, and understanding our stories,impacts our neurobiology?
Adam Young (23:25):
Sure, the important thing to understand is that we
are like lightning years.
Important thing to understandis that we are like lightning
years.
Well, we're.
30 years ago we did not knownearly what we know now about
neurobiology, brain structures,the limbic system, how neural
networks get connected, but wedo now, and that is really,
(23:49):
really helpful for people withtrauma, because so much of the
byproduct of trauma it's notmerely that I'm having all these
big out of control feelings anddifficulties in relationships,
it's also that I feel likethere's something wrong with me
because I don't understand why,right, I can't put my.
I don't know why this is sohard for me.
Well, now we know.
(24:10):
Now we know.
And so the big two things thatwe know from neuroscience in
terms of the development of yourbrain is number one
relationships influence theneural connections in your brain
more than anything else.
So your relationships as a boyor a girl are more responsible
(24:34):
for how your neurons areconnected than nutrition, diet,
exercise, meditation, prayer,all of it.
Because?
Why?
Because we're created in theimage of a triune God, and so we
are deeply relational people.
That's number one.
Number two your earlierrelationships, your earlier
(24:55):
experiences have adisproportionate influence on
the development of your brain.
We know this now.
Therefore, you put those twothings together and here's what
you get your earliestrelationship with your primary
caretakers, single mostimportant thing for you to know
something about yeah yeah, wow,and I think it's the part that
(25:19):
we discount.
Brad Aldrich (25:20):
I mean, you're just hearing you talk about it.
I'm like sitting here thinkingabout you know how many parents
out there are paying attentionto all the additives are in the
food and all the things thatthey're doing and missing some
of the ways that dealing withemotions impacts their kids'
brains and I think I mean itgoes back to our honor and
(25:42):
honesty, right, those things domatter.
Kate Aldrich (25:45):
Parents are trying and those are things that are
very tangible and sometimes theydon't have emotions, they're
very easy to look into regulateall those kinds of things.
But yes, I think we alsounderestimate if we were in a
deficit in our family, which weall are to some extent, but if
(26:07):
we were in a deficit withemotions in our family, we're
going to be in a deficit in thenext family.
That we're in and not have thosethose ways to enter in If
nobody entered in with you.
You've got to work to figureout that.
As you said, that grief process, the fact that that is sad,
that that is hard, and then howdo I enter in with my new family
(26:30):
, my kids, my you know, all ofthose kinds of things.
It's a challenge to take yourdeficit and heal and have it be
something.
I don't know if that's whereyou were going with that comment
, but yeah, I think those thingsare tangible and easy for
people to kind of enter into,but the emotions many times are
(26:51):
very difficult.
Adam Young (26:54):
So and in terms of parenting, yeah, one of the
things that neuroscience hasdemonstrated very conclusively
is that if you want to be abetter parent, it has nothing to
do with interacting differentlywith your children.
Kate Aldrich (27:09):
Yeah.
Adam Young (27:11):
So you can take, you know, 95% of the parenting
books out there, and it's notthat they don't matter, it's not
that they're not true.
Exactly it's that they are soincredibly secondary to this.
Making coherent sense of yourown developmental story that is
what is linked to secureattachment in children.
(27:33):
That's what's linked to what wecall successful parenting the
degree to which you, as a34-year-old mother, have made
complete sense of your owndevelopmental story.
And that's what this book isabout.
It's inviting you to make senseof your story and if you do
that, it will changeautomatically, limbically,
(27:56):
implicitly, the way you relateto your children.
That's really good.
Kate Aldrich (28:01):
It is really good.
It is really good yeah.
Brad Aldrich (28:04):
Adam, towards the end of the book you put in this
idea which actually I thoughtwas really well done of you
challenge people thatunderstanding your story needs
to be done in the context ofrelationships and I'm wondering
if you can expand on thatbecause I'm sure some people
(28:24):
reading that would go oh, doesthis mean I have to go tell my
parents everything that they didwrong?
Kate Aldrich (28:31):
Does this?
Brad Aldrich (28:31):
mean I now need to go confront my bully from
elementary school Like what doyou mean in the context of
relationships?
Adam Young (28:40):
No, you don't have to talk to your parents, as a
matter of fact, I would adviseyou strongly against that, at
least for some time or the bully.
What I'm inviting people to do,oh, let me put it this way
here's how you cannot heal fullyyour Bible, a journal, a cup of
coffee, your favorite chair anda good view out the window and
(29:03):
that's what many people try somuch yeah Right, your favorite
book, whatever your kind ofrhythm is because the problem
with that set up that I justnarrated is you're alone Now.
You're with God, but you're youdon't.
There are not, there are noother people in the room with
(29:24):
you, and for you to engage yourstory, you have to tell it to
others that can help tell itback to you in a more truthful
way, because none of us can tellour stories truthfully.
Why?
Because we are too close tothem.
They're all we ever knew, andso what is actually harmful felt
(29:49):
normal, because it was normalfor you.
So you need the reaction ofother people so that you can
name yourself in the story youjust told truthfully and
accurately.
You also need the care of otherpeople, not just their reaction
.
You need their care.
You need their containment, youneed their presence.
(30:11):
You need their attunement,their containment, you need
their presence, you need theirattunement.
That's how neurons heal, that'show neural networks rewire is
through attuned, caring presenceof others.
Brad Aldrich (30:25):
Wow, that's really powerful.
Kate Aldrich (30:27):
It is really powerful and I mean we've
experienced that sharing in agroup setting.
It's just yeah.
Brad Aldrich (30:35):
It's powerful, it's different and I always tell
people.
It's even different than, yes,doing it with your coach, your
therapist is great, but it'sdoing it in a group of people
who care about you and can showyou that care, I think, is even
(30:58):
more powerful.
For sure.
Yeah, wow, adam, just to kindof wrapping up in this, you say
that you will not experiencefreedom from the places where
you're bound until you name whatis most true about your story
In many ways.
Healing and growth are simply amatter of getting closer and
closer to naming what is truestabout your story.
Tell me a little bit about,about narration for you.
Adam Young (31:23):
Well for me.
I knew that my dad wasphysically abusive, emotionally
distant, verbally abusive Like Icould have told you that as a
20 year old Like I had.
I had language for that, I hadexperienced that, I had stories
about that and I would have beenable to narrate that.
However, what's most true aboutmy story is that my mother
(31:48):
triangulated me, used me as asurrogate spouse and set me up
to be envied by my father.
I had no idea that what feltlike the sweetness and closeness
of my relationship with my momwas actually what was so harmful
to me, and so my compass waswhacked.
(32:10):
Here's what I mean by that.
The way I narrated my story wasmom was the gift God gave me to
compensate for an abusive father.
That's actually the opposite ofwhat's true.
I'm not saying dad was the gift.
I'm saying my mother wasactually more harmful and
(32:30):
abusive to my heart, mind andbody than the verbal and
physical abuse from my father.
But I didn't know that as a boy.
I didn't know that as a 35 yearold, and I was a psychology
major, undergrad and I had amaster's degree in social work.
So education is not going to dothe trick.
Books are not going to do thetrick unless they invite you
(32:54):
into the particularity of yourstories of harm and heartache
and trauma.
And that's what I'm trying to do, and make sense of your story
is it's like a guide, so thatyou can begin to explore your
story and what's most true aboutyour story in depth.
Yeah, I love that.
Kate Aldrich (33:15):
That's so good and I appreciate you sharing that
because I've often I don't thinkI articulated it quite as well
as you did, but I often shareabout.
My dad was an alcoholic.
He fought in Vietnam, so therewas verbal abuse.
It was just made our house kindof chaotic and I just I spent
(33:37):
so much of my teenage years,childhood in my bedroom just
kind of listening to my walkmanhiding.
And yet when I got so and Icould tell, as you said, I had
language for that ever since wemet and brad and I started
dating at 16 and 17.
So I had language for that eversince we met and Brad and I
started dating at 16 and 17.
So I had language for all ofthat.
And I thought for so long well,I can tell people about that.
(33:57):
So what do I need to work on?
Like what?
What else would there be for meto do?
And yet when I got into storywork, it was my mom that I had
to deal with, right, not my dad,right?
And actually and this is itsounds hard, but like I actually
felt more seen by my dad attimes than my mom, even though
(34:19):
he brought a general sense ofdisorder and chaos to our home
with his coping strategy ofdrinking.
Adam Young (34:26):
But yes, like, and I've shared that with many
people, and there it opens up aworld of oh, just because I can
name certain things thathappened in my family doesn't
mean I necessarily understandthe harm that's happened to me
(34:55):
confessing, kate, is that youcame to name what was most true
about your story as you exploredyour relationship with your
mother, and that had been anarea that you were not aware of,
not looking at, even thoughyour body knew you hadn't named
it, you hadn't told it, youhadn't understood it, you hadn't
made sense of your relationshipwith your mom.
Kate Aldrich (35:11):
You hadn't told it , you hadn't understood it, you
hadn't made sense of yourrelationship with your mom
because in your mind, dad wasthe harmful one, right, right,
and he was.
He was the obvious and likepeople I would say most of the
people like around us knew mydad struggled, so like also, it
was the world could see that wastraumatic, right.
So we're like OK, this is it.
And yet that definitely has aplace.
Brad Aldrich (35:33):
I'm not downplaying that, but it wasn't
we have most of the harmhappened we have two adopted
kids and I remember in one ofour adoption processes, just
because you put on a form thatyour dad was an alcoholic, you
had to do all this extra stuffto deal with him.
I did which was reallyinteresting and frustrating at
(35:53):
times, it wasn't the real coreof what you needed to deal with,
right yeah?
Kate Aldrich (36:00):
That process was interesting and I remember you
reflecting, because at thatpoint we had done some of our
work, and you said it's reallyfunny that they're asking that
about your dad but they're notasking anything about my harm
which was just as harmful butthe world wouldn't see it as
such.
So they're not predicting thatthat could be a problem and
(36:21):
things could come up and so,yeah, it was just.
It was a really interestingprocess, but I appreciate you
kind of giving words to that,because I think more people out
there than not probably aregoing to find that's true when
they dive into their story.
Not everybody, but oh, I didn'teven realize that was more
where.
I was hurt where my heart washurt.
Brad Aldrich (36:43):
Yes, well, and we hear it, even in those people
who have those big T traumas ofsome, you know the uncle or the
neighbor who did somethingatrocious.
Kate Aldrich (36:53):
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (36:54):
I know so many times the true of the story was
the parent who never noticed, orthey were told, and they Told
and brushed it aside.
Kate Aldrich (37:06):
Yeah, those are often harder to deal with than
the actual physical harm.
Brad Aldrich (37:14):
Yeah, that's why that quote jumped out at me,
because I just think it's sosignificant that sometimes
knowing the details of the storyis the start.
And there's so many layers thatwe need to work on.
Kate Aldrich (37:26):
Yeah, I love too that you shared about your
education, because I think thatyou would find that to be true
as well.
I say that all the time, likeyou going, getting your
education, having a passion forit, the Lord leading you there,
but then also hoping to fixyourself with it.
I don't want to speak for you,but that.
Brad Aldrich (37:46):
I joke now all the time that doing a master's in
marriage and family therapy doesvery little for your own
marriage and probably makes itworse, if anything.
So yeah, that's very true.
Kate Aldrich (37:58):
We got there, but yeah.
Brad Aldrich (38:00):
So, adam, somebody picking up your book, reading
through it and going, okay, Isee that there's some stuff I
need to work on.
Where do I start?
Where does somebody start intrying to figure out this story
thing?
Adam Young (38:16):
Well, if you can afford therapy, find a
story-informed, trauma-informedtherapist.
That's number one.
I've got some on my website,adamyoungcounselingcom.
You can go to theallendercenterorg.
They have a directory of peoplethat are trained in story work.
If that's not an option for you, do you have someone or
(38:40):
someone's in your community, inyour life that you can risk,
that it feels safe enough nottotally safe, but safe enough to
risk reading one of yourstories of harm from your
growing up years?
Kate Aldrich (38:54):
to that person.
Yeah.
Adam Young (38:56):
And see what that experience is like for you and
what fruit it bears.
Your stories need to be writtenand they need to be told.
That's the point, and so beginthe process by writing a story
and reading it to someone.
Kate Aldrich (39:15):
I like that.
Brad Aldrich (39:16):
That's really good .
Kate Aldrich (39:17):
Super practical and yeah, yeah, that's so good.
I love it, yeah.
Brad Aldrich (39:26):
Wow, this has been really, I think, a really
insightful conversation.
I hope it's something thatpeople will continue to pursue.
We've been talking about storywork for a long time.
I think your book brings a newkind of primer of hey, how do
you walk through this in arealistic way?
I love I know you do too.
(39:49):
I love Dan Allender.
I think Dan Allender's booksare fantastic.
I will tell you.
I've referred them to many guyswho go man, he's so poetic.
What does he actually mean?
Kate Aldrich (39:59):
I love his writing style.
I love that.
Brad Aldrich (40:02):
But I think, Adam, your book does a really good
job of kind of bringing it to.
What does this actually mean?
Kate Aldrich (40:10):
And it's a different style, which I think
is good that we have differentresources out there with
different ways of writing, so Ithink yours brings a little bit
more practical yeah, I don'tknow what else I would say, but
I think it's really would be aresource for some of those guys
who have a little bit hard timeunraveling Dan's riddles, which
(40:35):
I find very beautiful andinsightful, but for some people
that's a little bit morecomplicated.
So, yeah, well, we hope thatlots of people pick up your book
, adam, because I think it'sgoing to be a really good
resource for people.
We've already been recommendingit to people.
We actually were speakingsomewhere and we're recommending
(40:56):
it before it released or Ithink it was like the day it
released, or something like that, so it's definitely on the top
of our recommend to people.
So thank you so much for takingthe time to write it, because I
think it's just really reallygood taking the time to write it
, because I think it's justreally really good.
Adam Young (41:17):
Thank you, Kate Brad .
Kate Aldrich (41:17):
This has been a delightful conversation, Thanks
for talking about the book,getting the word out For sure,
for sure.
Brad Aldrich (41:20):
Thank you.
Well, that was such a greatconversation with Adam.
I really do hope that you checkout his book Make Sense of your
Story, why Engaging your Pastwith Kindness Changes Everything
, and we just really thank you,Adam, for joining us on Still
Becoming One.
Yeah, Until next time.
(41:42):
I'm Brad Aldrich.
Kate Aldrich (41:43):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Brad Aldrich (41:51):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrichministriescom Forpodcast show notes and links to
resources in all of our socialmedia.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(42:14):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts.
And be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Kate Aldrich (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Brad Aldrich (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Kate Aldrich (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are still
becoming one.
Brad Aldrich (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to Still Becoming One.
We are so excited to be heretoday and we're joined by a
special guest.
Why don't you introduce ourguest for us today?
Kate Aldrich (00:44):
Sure, I would love to.
Today's guest is someone whosevoice has guided countless
people into deeper healing,clarity and connection.
Adam Young is a therapist,teacher and the host of the
Place we Find Ourselves podcast,a show that has become a
lifeline for so many seeking tomake sense of their stories
through the lens of bothneuroscience and faith.
(01:06):
He holds a master's degree indivinity and counseling and is
trained extensively in traumacare, narrative therapy and the
work of Dan Allender.
But more than his credentials,what sets Adam apart is his
ability to name the ache betweenour patterns and to do so with
compassion, clarity and courage.
(01:26):
Today we're talking about hisbrand new book Make Sense of
your Story A Path to Clarity,healing and Connection.
Whether you're new to the workof engaging your story or have
been walking this road for awhile, this conversation will
invite you deeper into thegoodness of God's pursuit and
your own heart.
Adam, welcome to the podcast.
(01:47):
We're so glad to have you here.
Adam Young (01:49):
Thank you, kate.
It's good to be with you all,yeah.
Kate Aldrich (01:52):
Thank you, it's awesome, we're excited.
Brad Aldrich (01:55):
Yeah, we are really excited.
We got a chance to read thebook and just loved it.
We've been talking here aboutstory work and the purpose of it
and, adam, you just bring suchgreat language to some of that.
You say often that story shapeseverything.
(02:17):
How do you hope that yourreaders will experience that as
kind of engaging with your book?
Adam Young (02:26):
will experience that as kind of engaging with your
book.
Well, when I talk about yourstory, I'm not primarily talking
about like a 30,000 footoverarching narrative of your
life, from zero until howeverold you are and I think that's
how many people think aboutstory when they hear the story
of your life.
But I'm really inviting thereader to step into is two,
three, four, five of the pivotalstories, scenes, incidents from
(02:52):
their growing up years thatwere either harmful, traumatic,
abusive, but that have stayedwith them in their bodies, in
their memory, and they may notknow why.
They may not know why Iremember this thing.
I just do.
And let me also say this at theoutset you don't need to
(03:14):
remember the whole story for itto be a story that shaped you.
None of us have photographic,like video replay capacity,
memories of the whole event.
So I'm inviting you what arethe fragments of memories, that
thing that happened when youwere 12 years old, that no one
(03:35):
ever talks about, but you stillremember?
What are the scenes, theincidents from your growing up
years that may have an effect onthe way you relate today as an
adult.
Maybe you're 55 years old.
That happened, you know, whenyou were five, when you were 10,
(03:56):
when you were 15,.
My contention is that thosestories are still playing out in
your present life, presentday-to-day life.
Kate Aldrich (04:04):
Yeah, for sure, and we you know, brad and I, in
our practice, like we, we meetwith lots of different people,
but when we meet with couples Ithink that's you know people
will often be coming for tools,which is great.
Tools are super helpful andsometimes they're needed because
we need to learn different waysand strategies and things like
(04:27):
that.
But often, brad and I say wecan give you as many tools as
you want, but until weunderstand why you're doing what
you're doing, what's're oftentrying to help couples to
understand, and I don't know.
(04:47):
But I love the example youtalked about, you and your wife,
and like trying to figure outthat dynamic of her wanting you
to pursue her, spend time withher, all of that and like being
able to understand why that wasa challenge for you.
Adam Young (05:04):
Right, yeah, so yeah , so great example.
So in my own marriage, my ownlife like, my wife frequently
comes to me and said over theyears in marriage counseling
she's brought to our therapytimes hey, adam, it would really
be good for my heart if youpursued me more, if you asked me
(05:24):
more about what's going on forme, if there was more
intentionality in your pursuitof my heart.
Now if what was offered to mewas the tool of you know?
Hey, put it on your calendar.
Set an iPhone alarm or somethinglike I'm not dismissing the
helpfulness of certain tools.
Sure, here's what I'm saying inthe book.
(05:44):
Until I understand what's goingon in my nervous system, based
on my experience, in this casewith my mother, that's
inhibiting me from naturallypursuing my wife's heart, then
I'm going to be blocked, nomatter what arsenal of tools has
(06:05):
been given to me.
Why?
Because we are.
We have neurons, we are deeplylimbic beings.
Your limbic system is a deeppart of your brain that drives
your motivation, your emotion.
It's very instrumental in howyou relate to other people,
especially close marriage.
You know intimate relationships, and so I needed to understand
(06:28):
I need present tense tounderstand that I was deeply
violated, in an enmeshed kind ofway, by my mother, and so
there's something inside of methat says something inside of me
that says I don't want to gettoo close to and I'll put it
this way the woman, the woman inmy life, sure, and I need to
(06:56):
understand that.
I need to have grief about that, I need to have anger about
that If I'm going to show up forCaroline, my wife, the way she
needs me to.
Brad Aldrich (07:03):
Yeah, so, so good, it is really good.
I think there are so many,let's just say, guys out there
but people in general out therethat have had that thing that
their spouse has asked them todo over and over again, and they
go yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll geton that or I'll think about that
, and yet it kind of just slidesinto the background again.
(07:25):
What was it that helped you togo?
Okay, there's got to besomething else going on here.
Adam Young (07:33):
Well, I had stepped into some of the complexities of
my story with regard to my mom.
You know, starting as about a35-year-old man, I began to
explore the nature of myrelationship with my mother and
what I uncovered, what what thestories that I remembered really
pointed to was.
(07:54):
I was in a very what's calledtriangulated relationship with
my mother.
In other words, my dad wasemotionally checked out of their
marriage and my mom looked tome her son, for emotional
support, companionship, guidance, intimacy, and in time, that
(08:14):
became sexualized, and what Imean by that is there was an
erotic energy between my mom andI.
How do I know that?
Well, one example is when shewould hug me.
There was a sense of energyflowing out of me like being
taken and consumed rather thanme receiving, and I always
wanted to break off the hugbefore she did.
Brad Aldrich (08:34):
There was something.
Adam Young (08:35):
Here's the triangulated sexualized
relationship with my mom.
Kate Aldrich (08:47):
Yeah.
Adam Young (08:48):
And the implication of that is that stuff inside of
me is not going away and it'sbeing brought into my present
day relationship with my wife.
And so I married a woman whothis will come as no surprise it
(09:09):
was is avoidantly attached,which means she didn't require
anything of me as a 19, 20, 21year old when we were dating
like she and I, and it was like.
My heart was like oh, I canrest in this, I don't have to
tend to this woman.
She's not dysregulated in mypresence and asking me to soothe
(09:31):
her tend to her, bring her backfrom the abyss.
She seems to be superself-sufficient.
Yeah, and I was like I canbreathe, I can breathe and
breathe.
The dilemma with that is she isalso created in the image of a
(09:52):
we and not an I, and thereforeshe needs relational care.
Kate Aldrich (09:54):
Yeah, right.
Adam Young (09:54):
No matter how avoidantly attached she is.
And as she heals and grows fromage, you know, when we start
dating in college into herthirties from age, you know,
when we start dating in collegeinto her thirties, into her
forties, as she heals and grows,her need for my care is going
to actually increase, becausethat's how human beings are
wired for relationship andthat's going to, you can see it,
(10:16):
that's going to create like asuffocation for me and it's and
it's almost like my nervoussystem recoils against the woman
that I'm married to, askingwhat my mom asked of me.
But she's not doing that, but itfeels like she is.
Kate Aldrich (10:38):
Sure, exactly yeah .
Brad Aldrich (10:40):
It's really good, it is good.
I want to push even further,because we've done some of that
like okay, you can get theinsight, the connection.
Oh, look at how these thingsset you up for this type of
relationship.
How did the insight, havingthat light bulb go off start to
change the behavior with yourwife?
(11:02):
Did you find it easier all of asudden to start doing that
connection?
Did you what?
What was different?
Adam Young (11:10):
Naming harm, naming the dynamic is, I would say,
more than 50% of the battle tochange and healing.
Just naming what's going on.
Right is more than 50% of theway to healing growth change.
So for so many people they feellike they need to do something
(11:35):
differently in their intimaterelationships.
And sure, great.
But what if naming the waysyou've been set up for the
dynamic what Sue Johnson callsthe dance of your marriage, is
going to take you further thanputting an alarm in your iPhone
to ask your wife how she's doing?
Kate Aldrich (11:56):
Yeah, exactly, Exactly.
Yeah, it's so good.
And you know you spoke of thedance and and you know this
process, as Dan Allender says,makes us curious, Like there's a
.
There are pieces for your wifetoo from her story and I don't
know anything about her storythat play into these things as
well, and I love that you said.
(12:18):
But as we grow and heal, thatneed will grow and heal in a
positive, a positive way way,and and so then the interaction
between husband and wife cangrow and heal in really
beautiful ways, which I thinkwe've seen for us, we've seen
for some of our clients, and.
(12:38):
But I like that you named that,because I think that can
sometimes feel intimidating,right, Because if we're not, and
sometimes in relationships andfor us too, sometimes we're not
healing or growing at the samerate, and so then how do we walk
(12:59):
alongside of and hold ourspouse's story?
Well, yeah.
It becomes, as you said, a dance, but it also, at times, can be
challenging.
Brad Aldrich (13:13):
Yeah, and not using it as a weapon, right?
We've seen that and I don'tknow if you've had a temptation
of that of like, oh, that's justyour story coming out kind of
against each other instead ofwith each other.
Adam Young (13:27):
Yes, yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up.
That happens with couples allthe time and it's just so
heartbreaking you should neverlike.
There's nothing helpful abouttelling someone.
Your story is the reason we'rehaving such a hard time right
(13:49):
now.
The sentence might be a hundredpercent true.
Kate Aldrich (13:52):
Okay, but it's an accusation.
Adam Young (13:55):
right, it's an accusation, and accusations are
thinly veiled versions ofcontempt.
And as we know from theGottman's like, contempt is a
killer in romantic relationships.
And so the opposite of that,brad, I would say, is you need
to get a PhD in how your spousewas wounded.
That's the way I say it, that'sreally good.
(14:16):
You need to have curiosityabout your spouse's story and
know it so well that you have anunderstanding for why he or she
is the way they are, and thatdoesn't mean they're going to
stay that way.
But you need to understand whytheir nervous system reacts to
(14:40):
you the way it does, becausethere's a reason for that.
That's the premise of the book.
There's a reason why we relateto people the way we do.
There's a reason why we'restuck in the ways we're stuck.
It's not random.
Brad Aldrich (14:55):
Yeah, no, it's not , and this may bring us back to
kind of the start, but I thinkit's an important thing, because
one of the things I hear allthe time as I kind of try to
open those doors of woundednessor understanding deeper things,
is this objection that sayssomething like oh, I was raised
(15:16):
in a Christian home.
My parents tried their best.
Overall, I had a pretty goodchildhood.
Done, can we just move on tothe normal things now?
Right, yeah, how do you relateto that?
How do you answer that kind ofpseudo-honor objection?
Adam Young (15:34):
Well, it's really odd for Christians to say
because Christians believe inthe Bible and according to the
Bible, no one does the best theycan.
You sometimes do the best youcan and you sometimes don't.
That's what it means to be asinner.
So, according to the Bible, youhave to grapple with the fact
(15:56):
that you do harm, and you alsohave to grapple with the fact
that your parents did harm, andsome of that harm was
intentional and some of thatharm was intentional and some of
that harm was unintentional.
Kate Aldrich (16:12):
Sure.
Adam Young (16:13):
So have you put down on a piece of paper some
bullets of the primary ways yourfather harmed you when you were
living in your home growing up,and on the bottom half of that
paper, can you bullet out someof the key ways that your mother
(16:34):
harmed you?
And if you can't, then it's notmerely that you're not honoring
your father and mother, becausehonor requires honesty, but far
more it's.
You're living an illusion,you're living in denial, you've
got your head in the sand aboutwhat actually went down for you
(16:56):
as a boy or a girl and that thatwill leak out in your romantic
relationships in really yucky,damaging ways, in your romantic
relationships in really yuckydamaging ways.
Brad Aldrich (17:08):
Yeah, so then I'm going to turn the table on that.
Kate Aldrich (17:15):
How do?
Adam Young (17:15):
you have that not terrify you as a parent, that's
a question.
We get a lot.
Yeah, the way you have that notterrify you as a parent is
twofold.
Number one you need a savior,you need a rescuer, you need the
spirit of God to heal yourchildren from the harm that
you've done.
(17:36):
But that's okay.
We're celebrating Eastershortly.
That's what Easter is all about.
God got involved and is on arescue mission and loves your
children deeply.
So that's number one.
But number two repair ispossible in the land of the
(17:56):
living.
There is no way to avoid doingharm.
However, there are lots of waysto repair harm.
Sadly, many people have notexperienced repair from their
parents.
In other words, especiallypeople that have a history of
(18:16):
trauma, when they think ofsaying to mom mom, could we talk
about some of the ways you hurtme when I was growing up?
It's like, it's like they'relike.
I could never say that sentenceto my mother.
Well, okay, then you've got areally big bind on your hands
because there's no way to moveforward if someone is not
(18:38):
willing to discuss, repair.
Kate Aldrich (18:39):
Yeah, Sure, yep, absolutely.
But our kids are between 21 and17.
And probably at nauseam we'relike remember, if you guys ever
need to talk to us about thingswe haven't done, well we are
here.
We know, mom, we know.
But just making that an offerto them, an offer of repair?
Adam Young (19:02):
Yes.
Kate Aldrich (19:04):
And then I mean, we had one of our kiddos at
Christmas time come and bringsomething to us and then
actually being able to sit withthem, and I got to admit, as a
parent, it was hard, hard, right, it is not a pretty process,
but it's also beautiful and Iwas so thankful that that kiddo
(19:26):
was willing to open up to us,even though it was heartbreaking
, because it's a mirror and it'sas you said.
I need a rescuer and I have tosit with that.
At times that like, yep, asmuch as I might intend to do,
well, I didn't.
And so, yeah, it's a hardprocess and I love both of those
(19:46):
and that's what I know.
I work with a lot of women,moms, and when we start to do
their story work, they can getvery stuck in.
Oh, I'm doing this to my kids,right, first address you, the
little you, and then we can talkmore about, like, how do you
(20:08):
engage that process with yourkids to to hopefully change
generations for the positive?
Brad Aldrich (20:14):
yeah, so, yeah, it's tough it is hard, it's
tough, adam.
You kind of talked about repairas one of the big six that you
mentioned in your book of thingsthat are important in
relationships, and I don't knowwe'll have time to talk about
(20:35):
all six of those, but they arereally important things of
engaging, both where we can growinto healthier relationships,
but also places where we werenot given, things that we missed
.
I'm curious, as you've kind ofexplored stories, your own and
(20:58):
others, what's kind of thesurprising one of the big six
that kind of comes out ofnowhere and goes oh, that was
missing that kind of comes outof nowhere and goes oh, that was
missing.
Adam Young (21:15):
Oh, for me, the biggest of the big, the one
that's the most heart-wrenchingfor me, is that in my story is
number four, which is you neededyour parents to be able to
regulate your affect as a boy ora girl, and in my family I was
a deeply sensitive boy who had alot of big feelings and.
I was asked to regulate myparents' affect and they would
never regulate mine, and that isthat is tormenting for a child.
(21:39):
A child's brain needs acontainer of soothing and care
when that child becomesdysregulated in their body which
happens all the time tochildren and when that container
is not there, when mom and dadare not willing to sit on the
foot of your bed, put their handon your ankle, on your shoulder
(22:03):
, and say you know what was itlike for you that you were so
hopeful about playing in yoursoccer game and you sat on the
bench for the entire game.
What are you?
What's that disappointment likefor you?
How are you doing?
What do you need?
How can we support you?
We are in this with you.
(22:24):
Let me tell you about a time ofdeep disappointment in my.
When those conversations ofaffect regulation are not
happening.
The child is left withunbelievably big feelings that
they can't regulate on their ownbut they have to, and that
that's really damaging to thebrain.
Kate Aldrich (22:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Brad Aldrich (22:48):
And I think that you just mentioned one of the
places that I really like thisbook is.
You do kind of bring in some ofthe neuroscience, that this is
not just hey, you know, we haveto talk about the bad things
that happened to you, of how ourbrain was formed and why these
stories are so significant.
Can you tell us a little bit ofwhat you learned in how stories
(23:20):
, and understanding our stories,impacts our neurobiology?
Adam Young (23:25):
Sure, the important thing to understand is that we
are like lightning years.
Important thing to understandis that we are like lightning
years.
Well, we're.
30 years ago we did not knownearly what we know now about
neurobiology, brain structures,the limbic system, how neural
networks get connected, but wedo now, and that is really,
(23:49):
really helpful for people withtrauma, because so much of the
byproduct of trauma it's notmerely that I'm having all these
big out of control feelings anddifficulties in relationships,
it's also that I feel likethere's something wrong with me
because I don't understand why,right, I can't put my.
I don't know why this is sohard for me.
Well, now we know.
(24:10):
Now we know.
And so the big two things thatwe know from neuroscience in
terms of the development of yourbrain is number one
relationships influence theneural connections in your brain
more than anything else.
So your relationships as a boyor a girl are more responsible
(24:34):
for how your neurons areconnected than nutrition, diet,
exercise, meditation, prayer,all of it.
Because?
Why?
Because we're created in theimage of a triune God, and so we
are deeply relational people.
That's number one.
Number two your earlierrelationships, your earlier
(24:55):
experiences have adisproportionate influence on
the development of your brain.
We know this now.
Therefore, you put those twothings together and here's what
you get your earliestrelationship with your primary
caretakers, single mostimportant thing for you to know
something about yeah yeah, wow,and I think it's the part that
(25:19):
we discount.
Brad Aldrich (25:20):
I mean, you're just hearing you talk about it.
I'm like sitting here thinkingabout you know how many parents
out there are paying attentionto all the additives are in the
food and all the things thatthey're doing and missing some
of the ways that dealing withemotions impacts their kids'
brains and I think I mean itgoes back to our honor and
(25:42):
honesty, right, those things domatter.
Kate Aldrich (25:45):
Parents are trying and those are things that are
very tangible and sometimes theydon't have emotions, they're
very easy to look into regulateall those kinds of things.
But yes, I think we alsounderestimate if we were in a
deficit in our family, which weall are to some extent, but if
(26:07):
we were in a deficit withemotions in our family, we're
going to be in a deficit in thenext family.
That we're in and not have thosethose ways to enter in If
nobody entered in with you.
You've got to work to figureout that.
As you said, that grief process, the fact that that is sad,
that that is hard, and then howdo I enter in with my new family
(26:30):
, my kids, my you know, all ofthose kinds of things.
It's a challenge to take yourdeficit and heal and have it be
something.
I don't know if that's whereyou were going with that comment
, but yeah, I think those thingsare tangible and easy for
people to kind of enter into,but the emotions many times are
(26:51):
very difficult.
Adam Young (26:54):
So and in terms of parenting, yeah, one of the
things that neuroscience hasdemonstrated very conclusively
is that if you want to be abetter parent, it has nothing to
do with interacting differentlywith your children.
Kate Aldrich (27:09):
Yeah.
Adam Young (27:11):
So you can take, you know, 95% of the parenting
books out there, and it's notthat they don't matter, it's not
that they're not true.
Exactly it's that they are soincredibly secondary to this.
Making coherent sense of yourown developmental story that is
what is linked to secureattachment in children.
(27:33):
That's what's linked to what wecall successful parenting the
degree to which you, as a34-year-old mother, have made
complete sense of your owndevelopmental story.
And that's what this book isabout.
It's inviting you to make senseof your story and if you do
that, it will changeautomatically, limbically,
(27:56):
implicitly, the way you relateto your children.
That's really good.
Kate Aldrich (28:01):
It is really good.
It is really good yeah.
Brad Aldrich (28:04):
Adam, towards the end of the book you put in this
idea which actually I thoughtwas really well done of you
challenge people thatunderstanding your story needs
to be done in the context ofrelationships and I'm wondering
if you can expand on thatbecause I'm sure some people
(28:24):
reading that would go oh, doesthis mean I have to go tell my
parents everything that they didwrong?
Kate Aldrich (28:31):
Does this?
Brad Aldrich (28:31):
mean I now need to go confront my bully from
elementary school Like what doyou mean in the context of
relationships?
Adam Young (28:40):
No, you don't have to talk to your parents, as a
matter of fact, I would adviseyou strongly against that, at
least for some time or the bully.
What I'm inviting people to do,oh, let me put it this way
here's how you cannot heal fullyyour Bible, a journal, a cup of
coffee, your favorite chair anda good view out the window and
(29:03):
that's what many people try somuch yeah Right, your favorite
book, whatever your kind ofrhythm is because the problem
with that set up that I justnarrated is you're alone Now.
You're with God, but you're youdon't.
There are not, there are noother people in the room with
(29:24):
you, and for you to engage yourstory, you have to tell it to
others that can help tell itback to you in a more truthful
way, because none of us can tellour stories truthfully.
Why?
Because we are too close tothem.
They're all we ever knew, andso what is actually harmful felt
(29:49):
normal, because it was normalfor you.
So you need the reaction ofother people so that you can
name yourself in the story youjust told truthfully and
accurately.
You also need the care of otherpeople, not just their reaction
.
You need their care.
You need their containment, youneed their presence.
(30:11):
You need their attunement,their containment, you need
their presence, you need theirattunement.
That's how neurons heal, that'show neural networks rewire is
through attuned, caring presenceof others.
Brad Aldrich (30:25):
Wow, that's really powerful.
Kate Aldrich (30:27):
It is really powerful and I mean we've
experienced that sharing in agroup setting.
It's just yeah.
Brad Aldrich (30:35):
It's powerful, it's different and I always tell
people.
It's even different than, yes,doing it with your coach, your
therapist is great, but it'sdoing it in a group of people
who care about you and can showyou that care, I think, is even
(30:58):
more powerful.
For sure.
Yeah, wow, adam, just to kindof wrapping up in this, you say
that you will not experiencefreedom from the places where
you're bound until you name whatis most true about your story
In many ways.
Healing and growth are simply amatter of getting closer and
closer to naming what is truestabout your story.
Tell me a little bit about,about narration for you.
Adam Young (31:23):
Well for me.
I knew that my dad wasphysically abusive, emotionally
distant, verbally abusive Like Icould have told you that as a
20 year old Like I had.
I had language for that, I hadexperienced that, I had stories
about that and I would have beenable to narrate that.
However, what's most true aboutmy story is that my mother
(31:48):
triangulated me, used me as asurrogate spouse and set me up
to be envied by my father.
I had no idea that what feltlike the sweetness and closeness
of my relationship with my momwas actually what was so harmful
to me, and so my compass waswhacked.
(32:10):
Here's what I mean by that.
The way I narrated my story wasmom was the gift God gave me to
compensate for an abusive father.
That's actually the opposite ofwhat's true.
I'm not saying dad was the gift.
I'm saying my mother wasactually more harmful and
(32:30):
abusive to my heart, mind andbody than the verbal and
physical abuse from my father.
But I didn't know that as a boy.
I didn't know that as a 35 yearold, and I was a psychology
major, undergrad and I had amaster's degree in social work.
So education is not going to dothe trick.
Books are not going to do thetrick unless they invite you
(32:54):
into the particularity of yourstories of harm and heartache
and trauma.
And that's what I'm trying to do, and make sense of your story
is it's like a guide, so thatyou can begin to explore your
story and what's most true aboutyour story in depth.
Yeah, I love that.
Kate Aldrich (33:15):
That's so good and I appreciate you sharing that
because I've often I don't thinkI articulated it quite as well
as you did, but I often shareabout.
My dad was an alcoholic.
He fought in Vietnam, so therewas verbal abuse.
It was just made our house kindof chaotic and I just I spent
(33:37):
so much of my teenage years,childhood in my bedroom just
kind of listening to my walkmanhiding.
And yet when I got so and Icould tell, as you said, I had
language for that ever since wemet and brad and I started
dating at 16 and 17.
So I had language for that eversince we met and Brad and I
started dating at 16 and 17.
So I had language for all ofthat.
And I thought for so long well,I can tell people about that.
(33:57):
So what do I need to work on?
Like what?
What else would there be for meto do?
And yet when I got into storywork, it was my mom that I had
to deal with, right, not my dad,right?
And actually and this is itsounds hard, but like I actually
felt more seen by my dad attimes than my mom, even though
(34:19):
he brought a general sense ofdisorder and chaos to our home
with his coping strategy ofdrinking.
Adam Young (34:26):
But yes, like, and I've shared that with many
people, and there it opens up aworld of oh, just because I can
name certain things thathappened in my family doesn't
mean I necessarily understandthe harm that's happened to me
(34:55):
confessing, kate, is that youcame to name what was most true
about your story as you exploredyour relationship with your
mother, and that had been anarea that you were not aware of,
not looking at, even thoughyour body knew you hadn't named
it, you hadn't told it, youhadn't understood it, you hadn't
made sense of your relationshipwith your mom.
Kate Aldrich (35:11):
You hadn't told it , you hadn't understood it, you
hadn't made sense of yourrelationship with your mom
because in your mind, dad wasthe harmful one, right, right,
and he was.
He was the obvious and likepeople I would say most of the
people like around us knew mydad struggled, so like also, it
was the world could see that wastraumatic, right.
So we're like OK, this is it.
And yet that definitely has aplace.
Brad Aldrich (35:33):
I'm not downplaying that, but it wasn't
we have most of the harmhappened we have two adopted
kids and I remember in one ofour adoption processes, just
because you put on a form thatyour dad was an alcoholic, you
had to do all this extra stuffto deal with him.
I did which was reallyinteresting and frustrating at
(35:53):
times, it wasn't the real coreof what you needed to deal with,
right yeah?
Kate Aldrich (36:00):
That process was interesting and I remember you
reflecting, because at thatpoint we had done some of our
work, and you said it's reallyfunny that they're asking that
about your dad but they're notasking anything about my harm
which was just as harmful butthe world wouldn't see it as
such.
So they're not predicting thatthat could be a problem and
(36:21):
things could come up and so,yeah, it was just.
It was a really interestingprocess, but I appreciate you
kind of giving words to that,because I think more people out
there than not probably aregoing to find that's true when
they dive into their story.
Not everybody, but oh, I didn'teven realize that was more
where.
I was hurt where my heart washurt.
Brad Aldrich (36:43):
Yes, well, and we hear it, even in those people
who have those big T traumas ofsome, you know the uncle or the
neighbor who did somethingatrocious.
Kate Aldrich (36:53):
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (36:54):
I know so many times the true of the story was
the parent who never noticed, orthey were told, and they Told
and brushed it aside.
Kate Aldrich (37:06):
Yeah, those are often harder to deal with than
the actual physical harm.
Brad Aldrich (37:14):
Yeah, that's why that quote jumped out at me,
because I just think it's sosignificant that sometimes
knowing the details of the storyis the start.
And there's so many layers thatwe need to work on.
Kate Aldrich (37:26):
Yeah, I love too that you shared about your
education, because I think thatyou would find that to be true
as well.
I say that all the time, likeyou going, getting your
education, having a passion forit, the Lord leading you there,
but then also hoping to fixyourself with it.
I don't want to speak for you,but that.
Brad Aldrich (37:46):
I joke now all the time that doing a master's in
marriage and family therapy doesvery little for your own
marriage and probably makes itworse, if anything.
So yeah, that's very true.
Kate Aldrich (37:58):
We got there, but yeah.
Brad Aldrich (38:00):
So, adam, somebody picking up your book, reading
through it and going, okay, Isee that there's some stuff I
need to work on.
Where do I start?
Where does somebody start intrying to figure out this story
thing?
Adam Young (38:16):
Well, if you can afford therapy, find a
story-informed, trauma-informedtherapist.
That's number one.
I've got some on my website,adamyoungcounselingcom.
You can go to theallendercenterorg.
They have a directory of peoplethat are trained in story work.
If that's not an option for you, do you have someone or
(38:40):
someone's in your community, inyour life that you can risk,
that it feels safe enough nottotally safe, but safe enough to
risk reading one of yourstories of harm from your
growing up years?
Kate Aldrich (38:54):
to that person.
Yeah.
Adam Young (38:56):
And see what that experience is like for you and
what fruit it bears.
Your stories need to be writtenand they need to be told.
That's the point, and so beginthe process by writing a story
and reading it to someone.
Kate Aldrich (39:15):
I like that.
Brad Aldrich (39:16):
That's really good .
Kate Aldrich (39:17):
Super practical and yeah, yeah, that's so good.
I love it, yeah.
Brad Aldrich (39:26):
Wow, this has been really, I think, a really
insightful conversation.
I hope it's something thatpeople will continue to pursue.
We've been talking about storywork for a long time.
I think your book brings a newkind of primer of hey, how do
you walk through this in arealistic way?
I love I know you do too.
(39:49):
I love Dan Allender.
I think Dan Allender's booksare fantastic.
I will tell you.
I've referred them to many guyswho go man, he's so poetic.
What does he actually mean?
Kate Aldrich (39:59):
I love his writing style.
I love that.
Brad Aldrich (40:02):
But I think, Adam, your book does a really good
job of kind of bringing it to.
What does this actually mean?
Kate Aldrich (40:10):
And it's a different style, which I think
is good that we have differentresources out there with
different ways of writing, so Ithink yours brings a little bit
more practical yeah, I don'tknow what else I would say, but
I think it's really would be aresource for some of those guys
who have a little bit hard timeunraveling Dan's riddles, which
(40:35):
I find very beautiful andinsightful, but for some people
that's a little bit morecomplicated.
So, yeah, well, we hope thatlots of people pick up your book
, adam, because I think it'sgoing to be a really good
resource for people.
We've already been recommendingit to people.
We actually were speakingsomewhere and we're recommending
(40:56):
it before it released or Ithink it was like the day it
released, or something like that, so it's definitely on the top
of our recommend to people.
So thank you so much for takingthe time to write it, because I
think it's just really reallygood taking the time to write it
, because I think it's justreally really good.
Adam Young (41:17):
Thank you, Kate Brad .
Kate Aldrich (41:17):
This has been a delightful conversation, Thanks
for talking about the book,getting the word out For sure,
for sure.
Brad Aldrich (41:20):
Thank you.
Well, that was such a greatconversation with Adam.
I really do hope that you checkout his book Make Sense of your
Story, why Engaging your Pastwith Kindness Changes Everything
, and we just really thank you,Adam, for joining us on Still
Becoming One.
Yeah, Until next time.
(41:42):
I'm Brad Aldrich.
Kate Aldrich (41:43):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Brad Aldrich (41:51):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrichministriescom Forpodcast show notes and links to
resources in all of our socialmedia.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(42:14):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts.
And be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
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