September 25, 2024 • 48 mins
Tune in as we welcome the phenomenal Shannon Etheridge, a million-copy bestselling author who shares her transformative journey and the evolution of her work on sexual confidence. Discover the inspiration behind her book, "The Sexually Confident Wife," and how it has evolved into helping couples discover their sexual confidence together. Shannon's insights shed light on what it takes to grow sexual confidence and its profound impact on nurturing stronger, more connected marital relationships.
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Episode Transcript
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Brad Aldrich (00:04):
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Kate Aldrich (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Brad Aldrich (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Kate Aldrich (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are Still
Becoming One.
Brad Aldrich (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Well, hello everyone andwelcome to Still Becoming One.
Kate Aldrich (00:34):
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (00:35):
We are so glad that you are here today and we
are thrilled to introduce you toone of our friends friends in
ministry that you know, kate.
You knew now for a dozen yearsmore than that and we've just
gotten to know.
We've been so excited to haveShannon Etheridge on the show
(00:57):
with us.
She is a million copybestseller, author of 22 books,
including the Passion Principlesand the Sexually Confident Wife
.
She has 30 years of veteranspeaking and in conferences and
all over.
She's a certified life coachand podcaster as well on her
(01:19):
podcast, sexual Confidence, onTap with Shannon Etheridge and
friends.
And we are so excited to haveyou on the show, shannon.
Shannon Ethridge (01:28):
Thanks so much for having me guys.
Yeah, it feels like we've grownup together, doesn't?
It, I know, or that we'regrowing old together, or both,
all of the above All of theabove, I love the name of your
podcast.
Kate Aldrich (01:40):
So much.
Shannon Ethridge (01:59):
Sexual Confidence on Tap.
Yes, so much sexual confidenceon tap lacking in so many
different scenarios.
And so, yeah, over the past 30years it's been an interesting
evolution process.
Kate Aldrich (02:12):
I love that and that's actually we were.
We love that principle of yours.
We have ever since we've knownyou and would love to kind of
broaden that and talk more aboutthat.
Today I feel like they're so.
You know you started with theSexually Confident Wife, which
that book was revolutionary forme to read personally, as I was
(02:32):
on a journey of healing,discovering lots of different
things.
But I know that you've branchedout with your husband and lead
the Sexually Confident Coupleand it's just grown so much
since you first started it.
Tell us a little bit about thatjourney for you.
Shannon Ethridge (02:48):
Absolutely Well.
Actually, the SexuallyConfident Wife was my 14th book,
believe it or not.
That's incredible.
It started out with this littlebook that most people don't
know about called Words ofWisdom for Women at the Well,
and it was basically for womenwith relationship addiction,
because I myself had gonethrough sex and love addiction
(03:09):
counseling in my 20s and in my30s.
I just really wanted toencourage women who had a
tendency to look for love in allthe wrong places.
But instead of getting that bookpublished, I mean I had
toublish it, which the day was alot more difficult than it is
today.
It's so easy today, but in theprocess of trying to get that
(03:29):
published was when StephenArterburn and Fred Stoker, who
wrote the Every Man's Battleseries they stumbled upon me
through a literary agent that Ihad sent my Women at the Wall
stuff to.
So they asked me to write theEvery Woman's Battle series, and
I'm so grateful that I did,because that was so.
It ran parallel with who I wasin that season with wanting to
(03:51):
minister to women who wereacting out sexually, yeah.
The interesting thing, though,is that, over and over
throughout that several span ofyears, there was a total of, I
want to say, 10 books in thatseries.
I don't remember exactly, butit was multiple books and
workbooks and all of that, so itwas over a several year span of
(04:13):
time.
I was hearing from women whowere acting out and needing help
, but more and more I washearing from husbands who were
so frustrated over the fact thattheir wives seemed so
disinterested.
And maybe she was interested insomebody else, but more than
likely it was just simply shewasn't interested in sex.
(04:35):
She wasn't interested inclosest and connection, touching
feeling for play, and he didn'tknow what to do to get her
engine revving.
And he didn't know what to doto get her engine revving.
So I soon realized that I'monly addressing one side of the
pendulum swing, the side thatacts out.
I realized that femalesexuality is definitely a
pendulum swing.
We either swing too far to theleft, do things that we never
(05:04):
thought we would do, getaddicted to porn or interact
with somebody in a chat room orhave an affair.
But there was this other end ofthe pendulum swing, too far to
the right, where women wereshutting down, they were losing
that feeling and they didn'tknow where to find it, and they
didn't even know if they wantedto find it Quite frankly, it was
almost like well, I'm donehaving kids, so why bother?
And the reasons behind it wereall different and unique.
And so that's when I realizedthat the sexually confident wife
(05:25):
had to be my next book, becauseit was such a small person.
I don't want to say smallpercentage, I want to say that
probably 30 percent of womenhave had acting out experiences
in their lifetime, which is asignificant number, one in three
.
But I had to look at this other70% that were going through
(05:46):
motions sexually to land theirmate or start their marriage or
to begin their family but thenjust that kind of went off the
rails with any interest andrealizing that women just have
not been culturally conditionedto be sexually confident wives
beyond having those babies.
They just didn't have a visionfor it.
(06:07):
So that's where I feel like Ifound my sweet spot.
Kate Aldrich (06:10):
Yeah, that's a great.
That's a great the way youworded that was perfect, because
I was going to actually askabout that.
But I think you're so right.
Like looking at theinterpersonal what's impacted
someone in their own lives, butalso looking at the culture in
the United States, I think itreally deeply does impact sexual
(06:31):
confidence in women, absolutelyTotally.
Shannon Ethridge (06:34):
Well, and it's an interesting vicious cycle,
because I'm going to try topaint the picture as best I can,
and this is really goodpractice, because I'm actually
going to speak for the PureDesire conference that they're
having in Portland this week.
I'm going to be the tokenfemale on the panel discussion.
So for you ruminating thisconversation in my head, so here
it goes.
I think that, and first let mejust give a disclaimer I'm not
(06:59):
blaming women, I'm not shamingwomen, I'm just, I'm not
prescribing, I'm just describingthat.
This is what I've observed.
But I feel as if there are somany men who get addicted to
pornography because they are notfeeling the sexual energy that
they crave from their mate, forwhatever reason and I'm not
(07:21):
justifying it, I'm not condoningit, I'm just simply describing
that when he feels a totalabsence of sexual connection
from his wife and feels as ifshe's completely disinterested
and he has tried jumping throughthe hoops, washing the dishes,
bathing the kids, like he's doneeverything he can possibly
think of to get her interestedand amorous, and he just falls
(07:44):
flat, I feel as if pornographyis such a strong lure for men
who are just wanting to feelthat sexual energy coursing
through his veins.
And so I feel as if thatbecomes again a vicious cycle of
well, if my wife can't exciteme or won't excite me, then this
over here will excite me.
(08:04):
Well, then they get moreexcited about this than this
because it's easier.
There's no rejection in porn,it's just so easy the click of a
mouse and then they lose theirability to actually connect and
bond sexually with a real livehuman.
So it becomes an addiction thaterodes at the fabric of their
(08:24):
marriage, because this is theimpact it has on her.
What's wrong with me that I'mnot good enough that you have to
look at another woman or otherpeople to get sexually aroused.
She takes that deeply personal,so now she has just the natural
lack of interest that comesfrom we don't produce as much
(08:46):
testosterone as our counterparts.
Now we have a deep wound of.
My husband obviously doesn'tfind me sexy enough because he's
looking at other people, right,yeah?
Kate Aldrich (08:55):
yeah, yeah, we talked.
We've talked about this a lotand I mean I work with a lot of
women in betrayal trauma andthat piece comes in no matter.
I I wish I could show peoplewhat everyone looks like,
because it does not matter ifthey fit sort of the world's
model of beautiful it impactsevery woman and I know too, like
(09:16):
listening to you say, you knowthat to have that rejection,
which oftentimes brad and I'velearned in story work models,
other rejection they'veexperienced in their family, in
their childhood, and so it's notonly just happening now.
we're now recreating somethingthat's happened in the past.
Brad Aldrich (09:37):
Right, and we are with the men too right.
You just said it.
Kate Aldrich (09:40):
But that's what I meant, actually the men.
That's what I was talking about.
Brad Aldrich (09:43):
Okay, I mean, I think it's on both sides Right
Because the porn is there,jumping in, giving them the
intimacy that they lacked fromtheir parents, giving them the
touch that they lacked fromtheir parents.
Kate Aldrich (09:55):
More attention.
Brad Aldrich (09:56):
Right, so it was that thing that they ran to back
then, and then it's just easier, right.
Right back then, and then it'sjust easier.
Kate Aldrich (10:12):
right, it's the lazy person's way to accomplish
a goal, I don't have to actuallyhave intimacy.
Brad Aldrich (10:15):
I'm really just having a release and feel better
for a few minutes.
Shannon Ethridge (10:20):
I heard it best when I was going through my
SLAA years that masturbationand pornography makes you a
selfish lover.
You're not thinking aboutinvesting in the other person.
You're not thinking aboutlining up your sexual energies
with theirs to create thissynergistic whole.
You're not thinking about oneflesh.
It's not an act of worship.
(10:42):
I mean I can't declare thatacross the board.
Maybe some people think that itis an act of worship.
I mean I can't declare thatacross the board.
Maybe some people think that itis an act of worship for them.
But bottom line is they forgetjust how amazing that co-created
dynamic is because they havesettled for the solo act For the
solo act.
Brad Aldrich (11:02):
So we have had so many couples that we talked to
with this exact issue thateither porn has entered their
marriage or, even if it hasn't,it's the effects is there of
maybe one person has a higherdesire than the other, and so we
see that exactly what you'retalking about dynamic, which
isn't that the case in everymarriage.
Shannon Ethridge (11:23):
It is.
Kate Aldrich (11:23):
Show me a marriage where they are both so equally
matched with their energy levelthat there's no discrepancy,
right, it doesn't happen thatway exactly, and we always say
with premarital couples, likeit's gonna ebb and flow back and
forth, most likely where it'snot always gonna be one person
like life throws things at you,changes in life like.
(11:44):
Like absolutely, you're notgoing to be on the same page
sexually, probably very oftenRight.
Shannon Ethridge (11:51):
Well, I think that it's kind of a beautiful
thing that kind of 20s and 30s,men seem to be more interested,
more virile, whatever word youwant to use.
But when a woman hits her 40sand 50s, that is when she hits
her sexual stride, if she knowsthere's a stride to hit.
There's a lot of women who,just you know, by the time
they're 39 or 40, they have noidea that their bodies and
(12:14):
hormones are about to change.
And yes, I mean there's themenopause years where it changes
for the negative and they starthaving all kinds of challenges.
But there's this little windowin between I've just about got
my kids raised and we're aboutto have an empty nest and the
whole menopause rollercoaster,which is another topic for
another day there's thatbeautiful window where she
(12:38):
actually feels more interestoftentimes than he does.
And I think it's because,intuitively, women know that
I've got to shore this thing upbecause my babies aren't babies
anymore and we're about to lookat each other in the eye and go
and who are you again when thelast one leaves for college.
So it's like she begins torealize what her body is capable
(13:02):
of in ways that she never knewbefore.
There are lots of women whodon't even have their first
orgasm until that season of life, and when we talk about G-spot
orgasms or multiple orgasms,that's often a midlife discovery
that's not readily available toa woman in her really early
(13:23):
seasons of her sexual expressionwith her mate.
Kate Aldrich (13:27):
That's crazy interesting.
Brad Aldrich (13:28):
How do you help couples to discover this?
Because what we're talkingabout is there's so many things
pulling at this beautiful thingof sexual intimacy, of what can
be, of what can be, and I thinkmany couples know, like have
(13:50):
this sense of it should bebetter or it should be.
You know this special thing butit's not.
Shannon Ethridge (13:52):
They don't know how to get there.
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (13:54):
How do you, how do you help couples on the journey
?
Shannon Ethridge (13:56):
Yeah, well, it's forming a relationship.
I mean, I call myself a lifeand relationship coach not just
because I'm dealing with theirrelationship, it's also because
we are forming a relationshipwhere I'm going to guide them
through a process, and itusually is a three to six month
process.
Sometimes it's 12 sessions,sometimes it's 18.
(14:19):
Sometimes it's as few as eightor 10.
But the goal is I want to helpthem look at their look at their
sexuality, but in the contextof their whole lives.
So what I usually start outwith is having them do a 20 most
pivotal moments exercise.
Kate, I believe that I had youdo this before your workshop
with women at the well is that Iwant people to create a
(14:42):
timeline of their 20 mostpivotal moments that really
shaped them, and it's thepositive and the negative and
they map it out chronologicallyon a timeline where, by the time
they let me see it, it'sliterally like an emotional EKG
reading of their lives.
Through that I can see whattheir emotional template has
been, what their deepest corewounds are, what their biggest
(15:03):
rejections were, what theirgreatest traumas, trials and
tragedies were, what theirgreatest victories were.
When I look at each of themindividually, then the next step
is I have them create one as acouple, because every couple has
their own co-created story aswell.
So when she looks at herchildhood baggage and he looks
(15:24):
at his, and then you look at howthey started their relationship
and how it evolved and thewalls that they hit, there's a
pattern that surfaces that theycan't see it necessarily at
first, because it's one of thosethings where you're just too
close to the trees to see theforest.
But once I point it out to themthat here are your core wounds,
this is your attachment style,this is his attachment style,
(15:47):
these are his core wounds, andthe reason that y'all are
clashing or fizzling or whateverthe case may be, is because
you're triggering each otherlike crazy and you're shutting
down that we go into protectivemode when we feel attacked or
neglected or abandoned or abusedor whatever the case may be.
So helping couples recognizewhat the real problem is is
(16:12):
really key.
And what I often hear fromcouples is we have read so many
books, we have watched so manyvideos and you know what.
You and I all know that we dothe best we can writing our
books and doing our podcast, ofcourse, know that we do the best
we can writing our books anddoing our podcasts.
Of course, there's nothing likespecific work that's custom,
tailored, sure, to the needs andunique experiences of those
(16:32):
individuals.
Yeah, so that is.
Um, that's what I started outwanting to do was, um, you know,
work directly one-on-one withcouples.
Most of it is over thetelephone, unfortunately,
because not everybody can affordto come all the way to
Springfield Missouri.
But yes, we also do thefour-day workshops where
sometimes it's women at the wellworkshops, where it's eight to
10 women going through thisexact process, looking at her
(16:55):
life, and then she'll often gohome and reach back out and say
I think we're ready for coupleswork now, because I feel as if I
put on my big girl pant, but myhusband has not done this soul
work yet and I don't know how towalk him through it and we're
we're getting tripped up becauseshe is basically outgrown him
(17:18):
in her awareness of her ownsexuality, so he kind of has to
play catch up a little bit.
Hey, I think it's great whenwomen can take the lead and say
I'm going to look at my life andmy sexuality, yeah, and the
difference you see in me isgoing to inspire you to do the
same.
Pal, it does.
Brad Aldrich (17:33):
It does.
Yeah, I know we've seen thatsame thing happen, where you
know women will start seeing youand eventually their husbands
will be like hmm, I betterfigure this stuff out Right,
because I do see the growthhappening.
I do see that I'm not the badguy through this coaching,
because I think that's the guy'sscript.
(17:54):
Is I'm going?
To be blamed for everything.
Kate Aldrich (17:57):
Right.
Brad Aldrich (17:58):
And you know, they start to see, oh wait, there's
actually some movement towardsour relationship.
That can be healthy and then goall right.
What do I need to do to catchup?
Kate Aldrich (18:09):
So when I think go ahead sorry.
No, go ahead, I was going tosay.
Shannon Ethridge (18:13):
I think that if he catches the vision that a
more sexually confident wife isawaiting the other side of this
process, for me, it willmotivate him, because so many
husbands are like you know, justtell me where to write the
check, show me what books are,just tell me what to do and I'll
do it.
But they just don't know whattools are available.
They don't know what books are.
Just tell me what to do andI'll do it.
But they just don't know whattools are available.
(18:35):
They don't know what books toread.
They don't know who to reachout to.
And oftentimes it is the womanwho will take the lead
relationally, because even if awoman doesn't feel total sexual
confidence and maybe it'sbecause of body image issues,
maybe it's because of pastsexual abuse that she has
suffered, or maybe she's beenraped, or maybe it's just she
(18:55):
has a lot of negative messagesin her head about the whole
thing, because maybe she wasraised in the purity movement or
the church just better.
A lot of toxic messages,unintentionally of course, about
sexuality.
And oftentimes it's her thatwill initiate this, because she
recognizes that there is, thereis something lacking in me, and
(19:21):
the way that she describes itbest will be I want to want to,
I don't want to, I don't want to, but I want to want to, right?
So I just say you know whatWe'll take, let's work with that
.
Let's work with that, becausewomen intuitively know that if
(19:41):
they're not connecting withtheir husband, he's not the only
one losing out.
She's losing out, yeah, yeah.
And she wants to know what am Imissing out on?
Kate Aldrich (19:46):
Yeah, that's, it's so, that's so good, that's so
real and raw.
And I think also women wetouched on culture, I think
women in the United States.
It is more culturallyacceptable for them for a
variety of reasons.
That would be another podcast aswell to be the initiator of
these emotional things and Iknow for Brad and I as we work
(20:10):
with couples.
We're pretty upfront withpeople Like we will give you
some tools, but we also have tolook into why these things are
happening.
So the same thing you're sayingof like the patterns If we
don't and we just do tools,you're going to be back
frustrated at some point becausetools break down if we don't
know why we're actually doingwhat we're doing.
Shannon Ethridge (20:29):
Well, it's like going to Home Depot and
buying a whole toolbox full oftools, but you have no training.
They're going to sit there andrest Exactly.
Brad Aldrich (20:37):
All right.
So, shannon, I want to take aminute and ask this for the guys
who are watching or listeningto this, because I think they're
thinking right now this soundsfantastic.
I would love my wife to besexually confident.
I would love us to figure outour sexual confidence.
If I go and buy Shannon's book,am I going to get it thrown at
(21:00):
my head right now versus is itgoing to be helpful?
How can men, how can husbands,start this journey?
Shannon Ethridge (21:08):
Right?
I think that that's a fantasticquestion because you're right.
If a husband starts out on thewrong foot with this
conversation, she shuts down andtakes it as criticism and
that's not productive.
I read it first.
(21:28):
One man even said I wrapped itin a brown paper wrapper so she
would not know what I wasreading.
I think he wrote much ado aboutnothing on the outside or
something.
But he didn't want to just throwsomething at her and say here
you need to fix yourself.
He wanted to understand moreabout her journey.
That's a great first step, buthere's the thing If the focus is
(21:50):
on what's wrong with her,that's not going to land well.
So my recommendation isactually that he start with my
book called the Fantasy Fallacy,exposing the deeper meaning
behind our sexual thoughts andfantasies.
Because here's the thing, whenyou can open up lines of
communication about what yoursexual thoughts and fantasies
(22:13):
are and what they trulyrepresent, and some men have say
, oh, I tried that, whoa, wasthat a wrong thing to do?
But she didn't have theopportunity to understand it
through the lens of your lifeexperiences and your trauma.
Because how I explain it in thefantasy fallacy is that if we
were to make a list of ourgreatest traumas, trials and
(22:34):
tragedies and then made a listof our most unconventional
fantasies, the ones that weprobably have never told our
parents or pastor, or maybe evenour partner, if you held those
two lists next to each other,they're mirror images of one
another for a valid reason.
God wired our brains tocompartmentalize pain to make
room for pleasure.
God wired our brains tocompartmentalize pain to make
room for pleasure.
So if a couple can look attheir own thoughts and fantasies
(22:56):
through the lens of, we justwant to understand each other
more fully.
And how can we use thatinformation to our advantage to
kind of stoke each other's flame.
But a lot of women will comeback and say, well, I don't have
any sexual fantasies.
That's, my problem is, I don'thave any sexual fantasies.
(23:21):
My response back to them isusually you do.
You just have no idea how totap into an understanding of
them.
Because of the purity movementsimpact, I think that women
specifically were taught to turntheir sexual volume knob down
so far to zero, and maybe theyturned it up to one or two to
get married and have kids, butthen they turned it back down.
They have no idea what kind ofdance they're missing.
They don't know what theirbodies are capable of.
(23:43):
They don't know what theirbrains are capable of.
They don't understand howfantasy is actually a gift from
god to get all of thiscommunicating with one another
and get the circuits firing andthe lines of communication open
in your own mind.
So I would say, start with thefantasy fallacy first, if she's
willing, and come at it from apoint of humility of I want to
(24:06):
work on myself too.
Shannon wrote this book forboth men and women.
Let's read it together and seewhat we can each learn about
ourselves, see what we can learnabout each other.
Then maybe a good follow upwould be the sexually confident
wife, because then you've shownher that you're not pointing the
finger at her, expecting her todo all the work to fix herself.
Kate Aldrich (24:24):
Right Because it's an us journey.
It's not right and obviouslywe're two independent people.
But the other thing I would addto that as Brad and I've
learned, I would encourage anyhusband who's the motivator to
actually spend some timeunderstanding your wife's
desires, even outside of thebedroom.
The non-sexual desires.
(24:46):
Because I think, as women, Ididn't grow up in the purity
culture, however, there wasstill very much that kind of
culture.
I don't know what you wouldcall culture, however, there was
still very much that that kindof culture I don't know what you
would call it in my family.
You would probably have a goodvibe on it too, honey, but like
there was still that good girlculture.
Shannon Ethridge (25:03):
The Lady Madonna culture.
Yes, that's exactly right.
Kate Aldrich (25:06):
That culture also taught us to not have room and
some of my regular personalstory as well to not have room
for any kind of desire, not justsexual, and, I think, husbands
honoring who is my wife and whatdoes she love and she's
obviously on a journey with that, it's not like she's figured it
all out but encouraging andhonoring and delighting in some
(25:26):
of those things that aren'tsexual, I believe gives her
space to feel safe to exploreother desires and until she
feels safe emotionally with himand physically through
non-sexual touch.
Shannon Ethridge (25:41):
The idea of sexual touch just seems so
foreign to her.
And it's not because she'sfrigid and it's not because
she's been abused or whatever.
This is just.
I think this is how God wiredwomen that enter the gas pedal
when it comes to physical sexualtouch.
But women are the brake pedalto make sure that there's an
emotional connection there first, to make sure that you're a
(26:01):
safe partner for me, and thankGod that it's wired that way.
You wouldn't buy a car with twogas pedals and you wouldn't buy
a car with two brake pedals.
You need one of each.
So we each play a role becausewithout that emotional
connection, without thatspiritual connection, without
that feeling of safety, sex I'mnot, I don't want to say it
falls flat, because you know sexis great, but it's so much
(26:26):
richer and deeper when there isa bond that is being fueled like
crazy through that sexualexpression with one another,
absolutely.
Kate Aldrich (26:34):
And yeah, I think God had big plans for that
emotional part, because we canlook at other things in his
kingdom that he's created, thatthey have the physical side, but
that emotional side is whatreally separates us from other
things Absolutely.
It's pretty clear on us.
Shannon Ethridge (26:49):
Yeah, yeah, although I love hearing the
stories of certain species ofanimals that bond and mate for
life.
Kate Aldrich (26:55):
Me too Wolves.
Shannon Ethridge (26:57):
You know it's like, wow, humans can learn from
those.
Yeah, for sure.
Kate Aldrich (27:02):
For sure.
Yeah, that's amazing.
What would you say?
I was curious.
What would you say that you seeas one of the biggest
hindrances from keeping peoplemoving towards sexual confidence
?
Shannon Ethridge (27:17):
I think that there is a certain amount.
I'm going to say this word andit's going to ruffle feathers
because it's not a pretty word,but I do think that there's a
certain amount of pride thatpeople feel of they're not going
to admit or confess that theylack sexual confidence because
we live in a sex saturated world, like you'd have to be hiding
(27:38):
under a rock not to know how sexworks, and they've probably
seen lots of porn where itworked in ways that you know was
totally staged, and so mostpeople really don't have an
understanding at all, right, howthey lack that sexual
confidence.
But I think that if you can turnpride into humility and just
say something along the lines ofwell, I feel pretty confident.
(28:02):
But if there's a margin that Icould fill, if there's growth
that could take place that I'munaware of from where I'm
standing now, I want to knowwhat that looks like.
I want to be the best loverthat I can be for my wife or for
my husband.
If you can come in with thatattitude of humility of I just
(28:22):
want to see what I can learn andI'm going to do my best to be
my absolute best version ofmyself inside and outside the
bedroom.
That can help dissipate pridelike cotton candy on the tongue.
Brad Aldrich (28:34):
Yeah, I love that.
Me too, because it says there'sstuff you can do, still right.
Like so often we find peoplejust pointing the finger at
their spouse and going they'vegot to fix this.
Shannon Ethridge (28:46):
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (28:46):
And we've seen it both directions.
Shannon Ethridge (28:48):
It's always co-created.
Right, it's always a two-waystreet.
They did not get that in thatplace because of one person.
Kate Aldrich (28:57):
Yeah absolutely, and I think, too, we hear a lot
like my needs aren't being met.
I'm curious, since we have youhere, shannon, when you hear
statements like that, how do youaddress them?
What when?
Shannon Ethridge (29:14):
you hear statements like that, what?
How do you address them?
I'm going to be honest.
I think that that phrase myneeds aren't being met At first
glance somebody may think, oh,that sounds so selfish, so
self-centered.
I think that that is incrediblymature and vulnerable for them
to make that observation and toput that out there for to be
(29:35):
addressed and worked on.
And hopefully they will alsoadmit that you know my mates
needs may not be getting meteither because I'm I'm oblivious
as to you know what, you knowwhat I can do for them.
That makes want to connect withme.
So, when it comes to addressingthis particular topic in a
healthy way, I would encouragethe partner don't take this
(29:57):
personally.
They are being incredibly openand honest with you.
They're actually giving you thekeys to their kingdom.
They're inviting you in to workon things together and you'll
benefit from it, because who ofus doesn't love feeling as if we
know more about how to meet ourmate's needs?
(30:19):
It's what gives us confidencein the relationship.
So don't assume that it'scoming from a place of
selfishness.
I think that again, it justshows tremendous maturity and
insight into themselves.
But hopefully they word it in away that sounds like an
invitation rather than acriticism, because you can
inspire people to meet yourneeds.
(30:39):
You cannot require them to meetyour needs.
It does not work that way.
Kate Aldrich (30:43):
What would be an example of an invitation?
Instead of, what would you tella husband or a wife?
Shannon Ethridge (30:51):
Let's come up with a particular scenario.
What comes to my mind is thewhole situation of betrayal.
If one partner has beenunfaithful, either through
pornography or through an actualperson online or real time or
whatever and that personjustifies it by saying well, my
(31:12):
needs haven't been met in areally long time.
Okay, well, you didn't thinkthat you could ask for your
needs to be met, or you triedand failed in properly
communicating what your needsare.
And the way that I explain itis that you know, if a child
comes home with a report cardwith a bad grade, you're going
(31:35):
to tell them you need to dobetter.
And six weeks later, if it'sstill a bad grade, maybe you
ground them to make them dobetter.
And six weeks later, it's stilla bad grade.
Eventually, you're not going tolook at your student anymore
because they've been doing allthat they can.
You're going to look to theteacher of what?
Why is this happening?
What is not being taught in theclassroom?
(31:55):
So we have to understand thatwhen our mate says my needs
aren't getting met, ok, well,let me be a student of your
needs.
You're the teacher, I'm thestudent.
Teach me.
Teach me what I could do better.
Teach me what I have failed todo.
Teach me what I do well,because we all need to.
(32:18):
As a matter of fact, I wouldsay start there.
The Oreo cookie approach isreally best of tell me what I do
well and then tell me where Ineed to improve, and then tell
me again what I do well and whatvision you have for the future,
because everybody wants to feelas if their mate is working
toward a collaborative futuretogether.
So many times they come into mycoaching office and they are so
(32:40):
ready to throw in the towel andthey're using divorce language
and separation language and allthat kind of stuff.
I would say don't start there.
Don't start there.
I'm not gonna say that itsometimes doesn't end there.
Unfortunately, not everymarriage can come back from the
brink of divorce, but by gollyyou can certainly try by just
being humble and and honest andauthentic and not getting in
(33:01):
defensive mode and becomingcritical of one another and
doing the blame game, because itreally is a sacred invitation
for someone to say I have needsthat I I'm feeling empty and raw
about and you're the safestperson on the planet that I want
(33:23):
to invite to and teach how tomeet those needs, because you're
the one I want to be closest to, you're the one for me.
You're it Like if you can tellit to them.
Like that.
It's a compliment, it's not acriticism.
Kate Aldrich (33:34):
I love that, I love that, and, and, as you said
, we can't demand anyone, but wecan invite them in.
Shannon Ethridge (33:40):
Yes, yes, right, and it may be an
evolution process.
It may take weeks or months, ormaybe years for some people to
really open those lines ofcommunication, and that's why I
think that it's so helpful towork with someone, a third party
, who can just kind of help you,navigate and mediate and
challenge you in ways that youmight not know how otherwise.
Kate Aldrich (34:03):
Yeah, that's really good.
I remember, and I think I toldyou this when I came home from
the women at the well, I thinkone of the statements that has
stuck with me the most was and Ithink you were talking on the
subject of emotional needsspecifically but you said, like
if you actually want, thebravest thing you can do, if you
want to get your emotionalneeds met, is ask for them.
Shannon Ethridge (34:26):
Yeah, I have people make a Cliff's Notes
version of their four-dayexperience by writing the 10
things that they want toremember and number one thing is
already filled in for them,because I really want to make
sure that they have it in theirhead yes, the number one way to
get your emotional needs met isto be vulnerable and ask for
what you need.
Yeah, it's amazing how thatworks, not just in a marriage
(34:48):
relationship with your kids,with friends, with coworkers.
Just be vulnerable and ask forwhat you need, instead of
critical and complain thatthey're not doing it because
they're not mind readers, theydon't always know.
Brad Aldrich (35:00):
Although I will add, Shannon, how often I work
with men who have absolutely noidea what their emotional needs
are.
Kate Aldrich (35:09):
They have no clue what any needs are they have no
clue what any any needs arecultivated in this culture right
the emotional.
Shannon Ethridge (35:15):
Language is a foreign concept, but emotional
physical needs like they ignorepretty much.
Brad Aldrich (35:23):
Men typically ignore most needs, relational,
spiritual other than the sexualneed that kind of has that nag
to it.
That's the one that they pursue.
And then in relationships, whenit happens that they're hearing
no a lot, they just go I don'thave any needs, so I just shove
them all back in the closet, andthis happens over and over.
Shannon Ethridge (35:46):
So yeah, and it is so important for all of
your listeners who are raisingboys understand that this
challenge of identifying howthey feel, or recognizing their
own needs, or recognizing theirwife's emotional language when
she's speaking it to him yeah,this didn't start after the
wedding.
This is a pattern that he grewup with.
(36:07):
Children are culturallyconditioned to either be
emotionally intuitive or totallynot, and the reasons are, you
know, different from onehousehold to the next.
But I definitely encourage bothnot just the moms, but the moms
and the dads to haveconversations with your kids,
not just about what they'redoing or where they're going or
(36:28):
who they're with or whatever,but how are you feeling?
Put a feelings chart on therefrigerator for crying out loud
Like.
That is one of those helpfulhousehold tools to teach kids
that, hey, what you're feelingright now has a name.
Let's go over and look at thefeelings chart and let's
identify what you're feeling.
Okay Well, how would you like tofeel?
(36:49):
Okay Well, what do you need tomove from how you're feeling to
how you want to feel Like?
Let's teach them this process.
I love Inside Out and Inside Out2.
Those movies are just so great.
Take your sons to go see thatmovie or those movies.
It is definitely a languagethat we have to instill in our
sons at an early age for them toreally be confident using it as
(37:11):
adults.
Yeah, I'm so glad you said that.
Kate Aldrich (37:13):
I agree 100% and the thing I've had to learn as a
parent is our kids' feelingsare okay, even if we're like, oh
, that makes me uncomfortable,like your interaction with what
they're feeling.
We don't need to shut it downjust because that makes me
concerned or that makes me right.
Like we have to also understand, as parents, our response to
theirs.
We don't need to shut it downjust because that makes me
concerned or that makes me right.
Like we have to also understand, as parents, our response to
(37:36):
theirs, because that's oftenwhat's happening.
And then they get shut down orthey feel like, oh, I saw mom
and dad looking upset, so now Ican't have that emotion, or it's
not safe to have that emotion.
And I think, remembering, asparents, the emotion is fine.
They can have whatever emotionthey're having, right and make
(37:57):
that be safe, absolutely.
Shannon Ethridge (37:59):
We need to teach them that our negative
emotions primarily sadness,anger and fear those are our
wisest teachers.
They're not villains, they'renot culprits, they're not things
to be feared.
Teachers, they're not villains,they're not culprits, they're
not things to be feared.
That's, that's our wisestteachers, knocking on the door
(38:20):
with a lesson for us, and thefaster we receive the lesson,
the quicker they'll go away anddissipate and let us return to
happiness and safety and peace.
So that is definitely.
I think that because so many ofus were raised in a household
or in the generation where ifyou were scared about something,
it's stop being a fraidy cat,stop being a scaredy baby.
(38:42):
You were belittled.
If you were angry, it was yougo to your room and don't you
come out until you get a civiltongue in your head.
You were not allowed to beangry, especially at an adult,
and don't you come out until youget a civil tongue in your head
.
You were not allowed to be angry, especially at an adult, and if
you were sad, it was stop thatcrying or I'm going to give you
something to cry about we wereconditioned as children to
(39:02):
repress all those negativeemotions.
So if we repress our negativeemotions, which are our wisest
teachers, how are we supposed tolearn in life Exactly, teachers
, how are we supposed to learnin life Exactly?
Absolutely vital to invitethose repressed negative
emotions up out of the basement,which is often what happens
when we do the 20 most pivotalmoments exercises.
It came with an emotionalimprint of these things that
(39:25):
have happened in their lifetimes.
There were certain feelings,and sometimes they can verbalize
that their parents or siblingsdid a very good job supporting
them, like in the death of afamily member or something like
that.
And there are other times whereit's like nobody even had any
clue how bad I was hurting.
Maybe it's when their parentsdivorced, or when they lost
(39:46):
their best friend, or when thedog died, or whatever the case
is.
Yeah, I think it's thoseseasons where we don't ask how
they are feeling and teach themlanguage that they can express
it with that we go awry and thatthey just repress those
feelings and carry them intoadulthood.
Yeah, so good.
Kate Aldrich (40:06):
Well, I often challenge people too and I think
in the church we need this thatI actually challenged.
There aren't really anynegative emotions.
God created all emotions assimply emotions.
I like that and he'sexperienced all of them.
God has.
And the thing I challenge peoplebecause I feel like in the
church they need to hear thatanger is not bad.
What we can do with it can besuper hurtful and have lots of
(40:32):
repercussions.
Even Jesus was angry, exactly,and I always say you know, if my
kids were flipping over thetable like in my house, I
probably wouldn't be superpleased.
Granted, there's a lot ofcultural context, there's stuff
about his family involved inthat.
But the reality is your angeris not bad, what you're doing
with it right.
(40:52):
We need to understand why theanger is.
Your anger is not bad, whatyou're doing with it right.
We need to understand why theanger is there.
But that's so healing for somany people because the church
has just said just tamp it down,control it, get over it, and
it's like no, their anger isactually trying to tell them
something.
Shannon Ethridge (41:05):
And once they learn to look at their childhood
through that lens of thoseemotions that felt negative at
the time, I'm never going tothink the same terms again.
Thank you for that great lessonjust now.
When they learn that it that itwas okay for them to have those
feelings, I think that's whenthey develop the confidence in
their marriage relationship.
It's okay to be afraid, it'sokay to be angry, it's okay to
(41:28):
be sad, it's okay to have grief.
I love being married to a grieftherapist, by the way.
It's just so refreshing to bepartnered with someone who knows
how to connect on that deepemotional level.
And so if husbands are reallystruggling with, how can I get
my wife to just be putty in myhands and be that sexually
(41:49):
confident wife?
I would say you know what?
Start with your emotional IQ.
I think that's actually thetitle of a book.
Is it Daniel Goldman orsomebody like that?
Kate Aldrich (41:57):
Yeah, Emotional intelligence yes, that's what I
was going to say.
Emotional intelligence, yeah,and it's true, and I think you
know we enter into grief morethan we realize, whether we're
aware of it or not, and it'ssomething we often talk about
with people.
That's a grief process, right?
So many things that havehappened in our childhood and
(42:17):
our lives.
It is a grief process and thatthere's nothing wrong with you
that?
You feel grief.
Shannon Ethridge (42:23):
That's part of the human experience the image
that comes to my mind.
I love showing people twodifferent pictures.
One is a light bulb in a roomwith white walls.
The other is a light bulb in aroom with white walls.
The other is a light bulb in aroom with black walls.
And which one radiates lightmore vividly to the human eye?
(42:43):
The one in the dark room.
The light is juxtaposed bestagainst the darkness, so grief
also helps us feel love andconnection more deeply.
It's not just a dark place thatwe go to and we'll never come
out, it's we feel joy morefreely when we allow ourselves
to feel the grief when it'sappropriate.
(43:05):
I also think that lettingourselves feel it is the only
way to heal it.
Ignoring it, repressing it allthe things that we were taught
to do as children I don't thinkthat that's ever productive,
healthy or beneficial in any way, shape or form.
Kate Aldrich (43:20):
Yeah, gosh, that's so good, we could keep talking
forever Shannon.
Brad Aldrich (43:24):
this has been so wonderful and helpful.
We really appreciate your timeand coming on and love what
you're doing, and we wouldhighly recommend couples to
check out couples at the well.
Um, you know, kate had awonderful experience at women at
the well yeah, phenomenal.
Kate Aldrich (43:42):
Definitely check out all of shannon's resources,
both books and what she offersher coaching services.
She is just a wealth ofknowledge and just such a sweet
person.
We just thank you so much forwho you are and for you growing
and who God has made you to be,because that's what allowed all
of this.
Shannon Ethridge (44:02):
Can I say two more very quick things?
I want to make people awarethat when we moved to
Springfield Missouri, weestablished a place, a property
that we operate as a VRBO, butour heart is families who are
deep in the trenches of griefbecause they've lost someone or
because of a divorce or becauseof whatever trauma may be.
(44:24):
It's a place where you can comeand you can work with both
Charlie and I.
Charlie specializes in grieftherapy, as I said, and play
therapy with children, and Iwork with adults, women and
couples.
So Springfield Missouri put iton your radar If you're going
through a season where you justreally need some time set apart
to go through the trenches andyou need somebody to hold your
(44:45):
hand in that process.
And also the second thing Iwanted to say is I got to have
you guys on my podcast withsexual confidence on tap because
I've known you guys on mypodcast with sexual confidence
on tap, because I've known youguys to be very sexually
confident for a very long time.
Yeah, you know, lots of peopleenter into this type of field
and they burn out after a yearor two or three, and I just love
(45:07):
the fact that you guys arestill galloping, still going
strong, still helping so manypeople.
Yeah, and I can tell that ithas had.
I can tell that there's atrickle down effect.
I can tell that it blesses youguys in your relationship to be
able to help other people intheir relationship.
Brad Aldrich (45:21):
That's always been evident to me, yep, god for
sure keeps growing us and youknow, there are plenty of times
I I say this to my clients nowlike there's plenty of times
that, through something thatwe're working on, I will
remember, like you know, what Iprobably need to do that better
as a husband right now, right,like there is places where we
(45:43):
keep working and growing, nomatter what.
Shannon Ethridge (45:46):
Yeah, I love the smile on Kate's face,
because what woman doesn't lovehearing her husband say there's
room for me to grow.
I want to do better for heryeah, so true, so true.
It means you're worth it?
Kate Aldrich (45:59):
yes, totally.
Before we run, we always shootthree quick questions at our
guests, so and we don't prepthem for it, we just love to
know what you think.
Off the cuff so so number onewhat are you doing right now to
keep your marriage alive?
Shannon Ethridge (46:15):
Well, right now my husband just had surgery,
so I'm literally bathing him,making sure that he feels like I
am there for him, because hisarm he had a shoulder
replacement surgery, so justmaking sure that he feels well,
tended to.
But if it wasn't in this seasonwhere you know, it's intense,
(46:37):
it's really intense to care forsomeone who is immobilized.
But we definitely do walks andtalks because I feel like
there's something magical aboutjust taking your mate by the
hand and even if it's just a 20minute walk or 30 minute walk,
just to walk and talk at sunsetor sunrise or whenever the you
know, whatever time of day, yeah, very important.
Kate Aldrich (46:56):
I love that.
What is number two?
What is something that makesyou laugh right now, brings you
joy?
Shannon Ethridge (47:03):
I have a 13 year old niece and to watch her
talk to my brother as if he isan alien with three heads,
because he's 62 and all he wantsto eat is salads and salmon.
Your time is coming, baby girl.
I love it.
Her name is Journey and I tookher to a Journey concert and, oh
my gosh, to watch her just jamout to Journey it was so fun.
Kate Aldrich (47:24):
I love that.
That's amazing.
Okay, third one what issomething that you're doing
right now that brings you rest?
Shannon Ethridge (47:33):
I got an infrared sauna a couple of years
ago for the VRBO.
I wanted people to have that,but I realized I need it too.
So I've been carving out timeto just lay in that infrared
sauna and sweat like a pig foran hour, because it just gets
all the toxins out and it justmakes you sweat and like I don't
(47:54):
exercise hard enough to break asweat, so I feel like that's
that's good.
Does it for you?
I like it.
That does it for me.
Infrared sauna is fantastic.
Kate Aldrich (48:02):
I love it okay, putting that on our list, honey,
okay that's so good.
Brad Aldrich (48:07):
Well, thank you so much, shannon.
We're just honored to have youon, and that's all for this week
on Still Becoming One Untilnext time.
I'm Brad Aldrich.
Kate Aldrich (48:17):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Brad Aldrich (48:23):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrichministriescom.
For podcast show notes andlinks to resources in all of our
social media.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(48:46):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts,
and be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on still
becoming one.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Kate Aldrich (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Brad Aldrich (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Kate Aldrich (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are Still
Becoming One.
Brad Aldrich (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Well, hello everyone andwelcome to Still Becoming One.
Kate Aldrich (00:34):
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (00:35):
We are so glad that you are here today and we
are thrilled to introduce you toone of our friends friends in
ministry that you know, kate.
You knew now for a dozen yearsmore than that and we've just
gotten to know.
We've been so excited to haveShannon Etheridge on the show
(00:57):
with us.
She is a million copybestseller, author of 22 books,
including the Passion Principlesand the Sexually Confident Wife
.
She has 30 years of veteranspeaking and in conferences and
all over.
She's a certified life coachand podcaster as well on her
(01:19):
podcast, sexual Confidence, onTap with Shannon Etheridge and
friends.
And we are so excited to haveyou on the show, shannon.
Shannon Ethridge (01:28):
Thanks so much for having me guys.
Yeah, it feels like we've grownup together, doesn't?
It, I know, or that we'regrowing old together, or both,
all of the above All of theabove, I love the name of your
podcast.
Kate Aldrich (01:40):
So much.
Shannon Ethridge (01:59):
Sexual Confidence on Tap.
Yes, so much sexual confidenceon tap lacking in so many
different scenarios.
And so, yeah, over the past 30years it's been an interesting
evolution process.
Kate Aldrich (02:12):
I love that and that's actually we were.
We love that principle of yours.
We have ever since we've knownyou and would love to kind of
broaden that and talk more aboutthat.
Today I feel like they're so.
You know you started with theSexually Confident Wife, which
that book was revolutionary forme to read personally, as I was
(02:32):
on a journey of healing,discovering lots of different
things.
But I know that you've branchedout with your husband and lead
the Sexually Confident Coupleand it's just grown so much
since you first started it.
Tell us a little bit about thatjourney for you.
Shannon Ethridge (02:48):
Absolutely Well.
Actually, the SexuallyConfident Wife was my 14th book,
believe it or not.
That's incredible.
It started out with this littlebook that most people don't
know about called Words ofWisdom for Women at the Well,
and it was basically for womenwith relationship addiction,
because I myself had gonethrough sex and love addiction
(03:09):
counseling in my 20s and in my30s.
I just really wanted toencourage women who had a
tendency to look for love in allthe wrong places.
But instead of getting that bookpublished, I mean I had
toublish it, which the day was alot more difficult than it is
today.
It's so easy today, but in theprocess of trying to get that
(03:29):
published was when StephenArterburn and Fred Stoker, who
wrote the Every Man's Battleseries they stumbled upon me
through a literary agent that Ihad sent my Women at the Wall
stuff to.
So they asked me to write theEvery Woman's Battle series, and
I'm so grateful that I did,because that was so.
It ran parallel with who I wasin that season with wanting to
(03:51):
minister to women who wereacting out sexually, yeah.
The interesting thing, though,is that, over and over
throughout that several span ofyears, there was a total of, I
want to say, 10 books in thatseries.
I don't remember exactly, butit was multiple books and
workbooks and all of that, so itwas over a several year span of
(04:13):
time.
I was hearing from women whowere acting out and needing help
, but more and more I washearing from husbands who were
so frustrated over the fact thattheir wives seemed so
disinterested.
And maybe she was interested insomebody else, but more than
likely it was just simply shewasn't interested in sex.
(04:35):
She wasn't interested inclosest and connection, touching
feeling for play, and he didn'tknow what to do to get her
engine revving.
And he didn't know what to doto get her engine revving.
So I soon realized that I'monly addressing one side of the
pendulum swing, the side thatacts out.
I realized that femalesexuality is definitely a
pendulum swing.
We either swing too far to theleft, do things that we never
(05:04):
thought we would do, getaddicted to porn or interact
with somebody in a chat room orhave an affair.
But there was this other end ofthe pendulum swing, too far to
the right, where women wereshutting down, they were losing
that feeling and they didn'tknow where to find it, and they
didn't even know if they wantedto find it Quite frankly, it was
almost like well, I'm donehaving kids, so why bother?
And the reasons behind it wereall different and unique.
And so that's when I realizedthat the sexually confident wife
(05:25):
had to be my next book, becauseit was such a small person.
I don't want to say smallpercentage, I want to say that
probably 30 percent of womenhave had acting out experiences
in their lifetime, which is asignificant number, one in three
.
But I had to look at this other70% that were going through
(05:46):
motions sexually to land theirmate or start their marriage or
to begin their family but thenjust that kind of went off the
rails with any interest andrealizing that women just have
not been culturally conditionedto be sexually confident wives
beyond having those babies.
They just didn't have a visionfor it.
(06:07):
So that's where I feel like Ifound my sweet spot.
Kate Aldrich (06:10):
Yeah, that's a great.
That's a great the way youworded that was perfect, because
I was going to actually askabout that.
But I think you're so right.
Like looking at theinterpersonal what's impacted
someone in their own lives, butalso looking at the culture in
the United States, I think itreally deeply does impact sexual
(06:31):
confidence in women, absolutelyTotally.
Shannon Ethridge (06:34):
Well, and it's an interesting vicious cycle,
because I'm going to try topaint the picture as best I can,
and this is really goodpractice, because I'm actually
going to speak for the PureDesire conference that they're
having in Portland this week.
I'm going to be the tokenfemale on the panel discussion.
So for you ruminating thisconversation in my head, so here
it goes.
I think that, and first let mejust give a disclaimer I'm not
(06:59):
blaming women, I'm not shamingwomen, I'm just, I'm not
prescribing, I'm just describingthat.
This is what I've observed.
But I feel as if there are somany men who get addicted to
pornography because they are notfeeling the sexual energy that
they crave from their mate, forwhatever reason and I'm not
(07:21):
justifying it, I'm not condoningit, I'm just simply describing
that when he feels a totalabsence of sexual connection
from his wife and feels as ifshe's completely disinterested
and he has tried jumping throughthe hoops, washing the dishes,
bathing the kids, like he's doneeverything he can possibly
think of to get her interestedand amorous, and he just falls
(07:44):
flat, I feel as if pornographyis such a strong lure for men
who are just wanting to feelthat sexual energy coursing
through his veins.
And so I feel as if thatbecomes again a vicious cycle of
well, if my wife can't exciteme or won't excite me, then this
over here will excite me.
(08:04):
Well, then they get moreexcited about this than this
because it's easier.
There's no rejection in porn,it's just so easy the click of a
mouse and then they lose theirability to actually connect and
bond sexually with a real livehuman.
So it becomes an addiction thaterodes at the fabric of their
(08:24):
marriage, because this is theimpact it has on her.
What's wrong with me that I'mnot good enough that you have to
look at another woman or otherpeople to get sexually aroused.
She takes that deeply personal,so now she has just the natural
lack of interest that comesfrom we don't produce as much
(08:46):
testosterone as our counterparts.
Now we have a deep wound of.
My husband obviously doesn'tfind me sexy enough because he's
looking at other people, right,yeah?
Kate Aldrich (08:55):
yeah, yeah, we talked.
We've talked about this a lotand I mean I work with a lot of
women in betrayal trauma andthat piece comes in no matter.
I I wish I could show peoplewhat everyone looks like,
because it does not matter ifthey fit sort of the world's
model of beautiful it impactsevery woman and I know too, like
(09:16):
listening to you say, you knowthat to have that rejection,
which oftentimes brad and I'velearned in story work models,
other rejection they'veexperienced in their family, in
their childhood, and so it's notonly just happening now.
we're now recreating somethingthat's happened in the past.
Brad Aldrich (09:37):
Right, and we are with the men too right.
You just said it.
Kate Aldrich (09:40):
But that's what I meant, actually the men.
That's what I was talking about.
Brad Aldrich (09:43):
Okay, I mean, I think it's on both sides Right
Because the porn is there,jumping in, giving them the
intimacy that they lacked fromtheir parents, giving them the
touch that they lacked fromtheir parents.
Kate Aldrich (09:55):
More attention.
Brad Aldrich (09:56):
Right, so it was that thing that they ran to back
then, and then it's just easier, right.
Right back then, and then it'sjust easier.
Kate Aldrich (10:12):
right, it's the lazy person's way to accomplish
a goal, I don't have to actuallyhave intimacy.
Brad Aldrich (10:15):
I'm really just having a release and feel better
for a few minutes.
Shannon Ethridge (10:20):
I heard it best when I was going through my
SLAA years that masturbationand pornography makes you a
selfish lover.
You're not thinking aboutinvesting in the other person.
You're not thinking aboutlining up your sexual energies
with theirs to create thissynergistic whole.
You're not thinking about oneflesh.
It's not an act of worship.
(10:42):
I mean I can't declare thatacross the board.
Maybe some people think that itis an act of worship.
I mean I can't declare thatacross the board.
Maybe some people think that itis an act of worship for them.
But bottom line is they forgetjust how amazing that co-created
dynamic is because they havesettled for the solo act For the
solo act.
Brad Aldrich (11:02):
So we have had so many couples that we talked to
with this exact issue thateither porn has entered their
marriage or, even if it hasn't,it's the effects is there of
maybe one person has a higherdesire than the other, and so we
see that exactly what you'retalking about dynamic, which
isn't that the case in everymarriage.
Shannon Ethridge (11:23):
It is.
Kate Aldrich (11:23):
Show me a marriage where they are both so equally
matched with their energy levelthat there's no discrepancy,
right, it doesn't happen thatway exactly, and we always say
with premarital couples, likeit's gonna ebb and flow back and
forth, most likely where it'snot always gonna be one person
like life throws things at you,changes in life like.
(11:44):
Like absolutely, you're notgoing to be on the same page
sexually, probably very oftenRight.
Shannon Ethridge (11:51):
Well, I think that it's kind of a beautiful
thing that kind of 20s and 30s,men seem to be more interested,
more virile, whatever word youwant to use.
But when a woman hits her 40sand 50s, that is when she hits
her sexual stride, if she knowsthere's a stride to hit.
There's a lot of women who,just you know, by the time
they're 39 or 40, they have noidea that their bodies and
(12:14):
hormones are about to change.
And yes, I mean there's themenopause years where it changes
for the negative and they starthaving all kinds of challenges.
But there's this little windowin between I've just about got
my kids raised and we're aboutto have an empty nest and the
whole menopause rollercoaster,which is another topic for
another day there's thatbeautiful window where she
(12:38):
actually feels more interestoftentimes than he does.
And I think it's because,intuitively, women know that
I've got to shore this thing upbecause my babies aren't babies
anymore and we're about to lookat each other in the eye and go
and who are you again when thelast one leaves for college.
So it's like she begins torealize what her body is capable
(13:02):
of in ways that she never knewbefore.
There are lots of women whodon't even have their first
orgasm until that season of life, and when we talk about G-spot
orgasms or multiple orgasms,that's often a midlife discovery
that's not readily available toa woman in her really early
(13:23):
seasons of her sexual expressionwith her mate.
Kate Aldrich (13:27):
That's crazy interesting.
Brad Aldrich (13:28):
How do you help couples to discover this?
Because what we're talkingabout is there's so many things
pulling at this beautiful thingof sexual intimacy, of what can
be, of what can be, and I thinkmany couples know, like have
(13:50):
this sense of it should bebetter or it should be.
You know this special thing butit's not.
Shannon Ethridge (13:52):
They don't know how to get there.
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (13:54):
How do you, how do you help couples on the journey
?
Shannon Ethridge (13:56):
Yeah, well, it's forming a relationship.
I mean, I call myself a lifeand relationship coach not just
because I'm dealing with theirrelationship, it's also because
we are forming a relationshipwhere I'm going to guide them
through a process, and itusually is a three to six month
process.
Sometimes it's 12 sessions,sometimes it's 18.
(14:19):
Sometimes it's as few as eightor 10.
But the goal is I want to helpthem look at their look at their
sexuality, but in the contextof their whole lives.
So what I usually start outwith is having them do a 20 most
pivotal moments exercise.
Kate, I believe that I had youdo this before your workshop
with women at the well is that Iwant people to create a
(14:42):
timeline of their 20 mostpivotal moments that really
shaped them, and it's thepositive and the negative and
they map it out chronologicallyon a timeline where, by the time
they let me see it, it'sliterally like an emotional EKG
reading of their lives.
Through that I can see whattheir emotional template has
been, what their deepest corewounds are, what their biggest
(15:03):
rejections were, what theirgreatest traumas, trials and
tragedies were, what theirgreatest victories were.
When I look at each of themindividually, then the next step
is I have them create one as acouple, because every couple has
their own co-created story aswell.
So when she looks at herchildhood baggage and he looks
(15:24):
at his, and then you look at howthey started their relationship
and how it evolved and thewalls that they hit, there's a
pattern that surfaces that theycan't see it necessarily at
first, because it's one of thosethings where you're just too
close to the trees to see theforest.
But once I point it out to themthat here are your core wounds,
this is your attachment style,this is his attachment style,
(15:47):
these are his core wounds, andthe reason that y'all are
clashing or fizzling or whateverthe case may be, is because
you're triggering each otherlike crazy and you're shutting
down that we go into protectivemode when we feel attacked or
neglected or abandoned or abusedor whatever the case may be.
So helping couples recognizewhat the real problem is is
(16:12):
really key.
And what I often hear fromcouples is we have read so many
books, we have watched so manyvideos and you know what.
You and I all know that we dothe best we can writing our
books and doing our podcast, ofcourse, know that we do the best
we can writing our books anddoing our podcasts.
Of course, there's nothing likespecific work that's custom,
tailored, sure, to the needs andunique experiences of those
(16:32):
individuals.
Yeah, so that is.
Um, that's what I started outwanting to do was, um, you know,
work directly one-on-one withcouples.
Most of it is over thetelephone, unfortunately,
because not everybody can affordto come all the way to
Springfield Missouri.
But yes, we also do thefour-day workshops where
sometimes it's women at the wellworkshops, where it's eight to
10 women going through thisexact process, looking at her
(16:55):
life, and then she'll often gohome and reach back out and say
I think we're ready for coupleswork now, because I feel as if I
put on my big girl pant, but myhusband has not done this soul
work yet and I don't know how towalk him through it and we're
we're getting tripped up becauseshe is basically outgrown him
(17:18):
in her awareness of her ownsexuality, so he kind of has to
play catch up a little bit.
Hey, I think it's great whenwomen can take the lead and say
I'm going to look at my life andmy sexuality, yeah, and the
difference you see in me isgoing to inspire you to do the
same.
Pal, it does.
Brad Aldrich (17:33):
It does.
Yeah, I know we've seen thatsame thing happen, where you
know women will start seeing youand eventually their husbands
will be like hmm, I betterfigure this stuff out Right,
because I do see the growthhappening.
I do see that I'm not the badguy through this coaching,
because I think that's the guy'sscript.
(17:54):
Is I'm going?
To be blamed for everything.
Kate Aldrich (17:57):
Right.
Brad Aldrich (17:58):
And you know, they start to see, oh wait, there's
actually some movement towardsour relationship.
That can be healthy and then goall right.
What do I need to do to catchup?
Kate Aldrich (18:09):
So when I think go ahead sorry.
No, go ahead, I was going tosay.
Shannon Ethridge (18:13):
I think that if he catches the vision that a
more sexually confident wife isawaiting the other side of this
process, for me, it willmotivate him, because so many
husbands are like you know, justtell me where to write the
check, show me what books are,just tell me what to do and I'll
do it.
But they just don't know whattools are available.
They don't know what books are.
Just tell me what to do andI'll do it.
But they just don't know whattools are available.
(18:35):
They don't know what books toread.
They don't know who to reachout to.
And oftentimes it is the womanwho will take the lead
relationally, because even if awoman doesn't feel total sexual
confidence and maybe it'sbecause of body image issues,
maybe it's because of pastsexual abuse that she has
suffered, or maybe she's beenraped, or maybe it's just she
(18:55):
has a lot of negative messagesin her head about the whole
thing, because maybe she wasraised in the purity movement or
the church just better.
A lot of toxic messages,unintentionally of course, about
sexuality.
And oftentimes it's her thatwill initiate this, because she
recognizes that there is, thereis something lacking in me, and
(19:21):
the way that she describes itbest will be I want to want to,
I don't want to, I don't want to, but I want to want to, right?
So I just say you know whatWe'll take, let's work with that
.
Let's work with that, becausewomen intuitively know that if
(19:41):
they're not connecting withtheir husband, he's not the only
one losing out.
She's losing out, yeah, yeah.
And she wants to know what am Imissing out on?
Kate Aldrich (19:46):
Yeah, that's, it's so, that's so good, that's so
real and raw.
And I think also women wetouched on culture, I think
women in the United States.
It is more culturallyacceptable for them for a
variety of reasons.
That would be another podcast aswell to be the initiator of
these emotional things and Iknow for Brad and I as we work
(20:10):
with couples.
We're pretty upfront withpeople Like we will give you
some tools, but we also have tolook into why these things are
happening.
So the same thing you're sayingof like the patterns If we
don't and we just do tools,you're going to be back
frustrated at some point becausetools break down if we don't
know why we're actually doingwhat we're doing.
Shannon Ethridge (20:29):
Well, it's like going to Home Depot and
buying a whole toolbox full oftools, but you have no training.
They're going to sit there andrest Exactly.
Brad Aldrich (20:37):
All right.
So, shannon, I want to take aminute and ask this for the guys
who are watching or listeningto this, because I think they're
thinking right now this soundsfantastic.
I would love my wife to besexually confident.
I would love us to figure outour sexual confidence.
If I go and buy Shannon's book,am I going to get it thrown at
(21:00):
my head right now versus is itgoing to be helpful?
How can men, how can husbands,start this journey?
Shannon Ethridge (21:08):
Right?
I think that that's a fantasticquestion because you're right.
If a husband starts out on thewrong foot with this
conversation, she shuts down andtakes it as criticism and
that's not productive.
I read it first.
(21:28):
One man even said I wrapped itin a brown paper wrapper so she
would not know what I wasreading.
I think he wrote much ado aboutnothing on the outside or
something.
But he didn't want to just throwsomething at her and say here
you need to fix yourself.
He wanted to understand moreabout her journey.
That's a great first step, buthere's the thing If the focus is
(21:50):
on what's wrong with her,that's not going to land well.
So my recommendation isactually that he start with my
book called the Fantasy Fallacy,exposing the deeper meaning
behind our sexual thoughts andfantasies.
Because here's the thing, whenyou can open up lines of
communication about what yoursexual thoughts and fantasies
(22:13):
are and what they trulyrepresent, and some men have say
, oh, I tried that, whoa, wasthat a wrong thing to do?
But she didn't have theopportunity to understand it
through the lens of your lifeexperiences and your trauma.
Because how I explain it in thefantasy fallacy is that if we
were to make a list of ourgreatest traumas, trials and
(22:34):
tragedies and then made a listof our most unconventional
fantasies, the ones that weprobably have never told our
parents or pastor, or maybe evenour partner, if you held those
two lists next to each other,they're mirror images of one
another for a valid reason.
God wired our brains tocompartmentalize pain to make
room for pleasure.
God wired our brains tocompartmentalize pain to make
room for pleasure.
So if a couple can look attheir own thoughts and fantasies
(22:56):
through the lens of, we justwant to understand each other
more fully.
And how can we use thatinformation to our advantage to
kind of stoke each other's flame.
But a lot of women will comeback and say, well, I don't have
any sexual fantasies.
That's, my problem is, I don'thave any sexual fantasies.
(23:21):
My response back to them isusually you do.
You just have no idea how totap into an understanding of
them.
Because of the purity movementsimpact, I think that women
specifically were taught to turntheir sexual volume knob down
so far to zero, and maybe theyturned it up to one or two to
get married and have kids, butthen they turned it back down.
They have no idea what kind ofdance they're missing.
They don't know what theirbodies are capable of.
(23:43):
They don't know what theirbrains are capable of.
They don't understand howfantasy is actually a gift from
god to get all of thiscommunicating with one another
and get the circuits firing andthe lines of communication open
in your own mind.
So I would say, start with thefantasy fallacy first, if she's
willing, and come at it from apoint of humility of I want to
(24:06):
work on myself too.
Shannon wrote this book forboth men and women.
Let's read it together and seewhat we can each learn about
ourselves, see what we can learnabout each other.
Then maybe a good follow upwould be the sexually confident
wife, because then you've shownher that you're not pointing the
finger at her, expecting her todo all the work to fix herself.
Kate Aldrich (24:24):
Right Because it's an us journey.
It's not right and obviouslywe're two independent people.
But the other thing I would addto that as Brad and I've
learned, I would encourage anyhusband who's the motivator to
actually spend some timeunderstanding your wife's
desires, even outside of thebedroom.
The non-sexual desires.
(24:46):
Because I think, as women, Ididn't grow up in the purity
culture, however, there wasstill very much that kind of
culture.
I don't know what you wouldcall culture, however, there was
still very much that that kindof culture I don't know what you
would call it in my family.
You would probably have a goodvibe on it too, honey, but like
there was still that good girlculture.
Shannon Ethridge (25:03):
The Lady Madonna culture.
Yes, that's exactly right.
Kate Aldrich (25:06):
That culture also taught us to not have room and
some of my regular personalstory as well to not have room
for any kind of desire, not justsexual, and, I think, husbands
honoring who is my wife and whatdoes she love and she's
obviously on a journey with that, it's not like she's figured it
all out but encouraging andhonoring and delighting in some
(25:26):
of those things that aren'tsexual, I believe gives her
space to feel safe to exploreother desires and until she
feels safe emotionally with himand physically through
non-sexual touch.
Shannon Ethridge (25:41):
The idea of sexual touch just seems so
foreign to her.
And it's not because she'sfrigid and it's not because
she's been abused or whatever.
This is just.
I think this is how God wiredwomen that enter the gas pedal
when it comes to physical sexualtouch.
But women are the brake pedalto make sure that there's an
emotional connection there first, to make sure that you're a
(26:01):
safe partner for me, and thankGod that it's wired that way.
You wouldn't buy a car with twogas pedals and you wouldn't buy
a car with two brake pedals.
You need one of each.
So we each play a role becausewithout that emotional
connection, without thatspiritual connection, without
that feeling of safety, sex I'mnot, I don't want to say it
falls flat, because you know sexis great, but it's so much
(26:26):
richer and deeper when there isa bond that is being fueled like
crazy through that sexualexpression with one another,
absolutely.
Kate Aldrich (26:34):
And yeah, I think God had big plans for that
emotional part, because we canlook at other things in his
kingdom that he's created, thatthey have the physical side, but
that emotional side is whatreally separates us from other
things Absolutely.
It's pretty clear on us.
Shannon Ethridge (26:49):
Yeah, yeah, although I love hearing the
stories of certain species ofanimals that bond and mate for
life.
Kate Aldrich (26:55):
Me too Wolves.
Shannon Ethridge (26:57):
You know it's like, wow, humans can learn from
those.
Yeah, for sure.
Kate Aldrich (27:02):
For sure.
Yeah, that's amazing.
What would you say?
I was curious.
What would you say that you seeas one of the biggest
hindrances from keeping peoplemoving towards sexual confidence
?
Shannon Ethridge (27:17):
I think that there is a certain amount.
I'm going to say this word andit's going to ruffle feathers
because it's not a pretty word,but I do think that there's a
certain amount of pride thatpeople feel of they're not going
to admit or confess that theylack sexual confidence because
we live in a sex saturated world, like you'd have to be hiding
(27:38):
under a rock not to know how sexworks, and they've probably
seen lots of porn where itworked in ways that you know was
totally staged, and so mostpeople really don't have an
understanding at all, right, howthey lack that sexual
confidence.
But I think that if you can turnpride into humility and just
say something along the lines ofwell, I feel pretty confident.
(28:02):
But if there's a margin that Icould fill, if there's growth
that could take place that I'munaware of from where I'm
standing now, I want to knowwhat that looks like.
I want to be the best loverthat I can be for my wife or for
my husband.
If you can come in with thatattitude of humility of I just
(28:22):
want to see what I can learn andI'm going to do my best to be
my absolute best version ofmyself inside and outside the
bedroom.
That can help dissipate pridelike cotton candy on the tongue.
Brad Aldrich (28:34):
Yeah, I love that.
Me too, because it says there'sstuff you can do, still right.
Like so often we find peoplejust pointing the finger at
their spouse and going they'vegot to fix this.
Shannon Ethridge (28:46):
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (28:46):
And we've seen it both directions.
Shannon Ethridge (28:48):
It's always co-created.
Right, it's always a two-waystreet.
They did not get that in thatplace because of one person.
Kate Aldrich (28:57):
Yeah absolutely, and I think, too, we hear a lot
like my needs aren't being met.
I'm curious, since we have youhere, shannon, when you hear
statements like that, how do youaddress them?
What when?
Shannon Ethridge (29:14):
you hear statements like that, what?
How do you address them?
I'm going to be honest.
I think that that phrase myneeds aren't being met At first
glance somebody may think, oh,that sounds so selfish, so
self-centered.
I think that that is incrediblymature and vulnerable for them
to make that observation and toput that out there for to be
(29:35):
addressed and worked on.
And hopefully they will alsoadmit that you know my mates
needs may not be getting meteither because I'm I'm oblivious
as to you know what, you knowwhat I can do for them.
That makes want to connect withme.
So, when it comes to addressingthis particular topic in a
healthy way, I would encouragethe partner don't take this
(29:57):
personally.
They are being incredibly openand honest with you.
They're actually giving you thekeys to their kingdom.
They're inviting you in to workon things together and you'll
benefit from it, because who ofus doesn't love feeling as if we
know more about how to meet ourmate's needs?
(30:19):
It's what gives us confidencein the relationship.
So don't assume that it'scoming from a place of
selfishness.
I think that again, it justshows tremendous maturity and
insight into themselves.
But hopefully they word it in away that sounds like an
invitation rather than acriticism, because you can
inspire people to meet yourneeds.
(30:39):
You cannot require them to meetyour needs.
It does not work that way.
Kate Aldrich (30:43):
What would be an example of an invitation?
Instead of, what would you tella husband or a wife?
Shannon Ethridge (30:51):
Let's come up with a particular scenario.
What comes to my mind is thewhole situation of betrayal.
If one partner has beenunfaithful, either through
pornography or through an actualperson online or real time or
whatever and that personjustifies it by saying well, my
(31:12):
needs haven't been met in areally long time.
Okay, well, you didn't thinkthat you could ask for your
needs to be met, or you triedand failed in properly
communicating what your needsare.
And the way that I explain itis that you know, if a child
comes home with a report cardwith a bad grade, you're going
(31:35):
to tell them you need to dobetter.
And six weeks later, if it'sstill a bad grade, maybe you
ground them to make them dobetter.
And six weeks later, it's stilla bad grade.
Eventually, you're not going tolook at your student anymore
because they've been doing allthat they can.
You're going to look to theteacher of what?
Why is this happening?
What is not being taught in theclassroom?
(31:55):
So we have to understand thatwhen our mate says my needs
aren't getting met, ok, well,let me be a student of your
needs.
You're the teacher, I'm thestudent.
Teach me.
Teach me what I could do better.
Teach me what I have failed todo.
Teach me what I do well,because we all need to.
(32:18):
As a matter of fact, I wouldsay start there.
The Oreo cookie approach isreally best of tell me what I do
well and then tell me where Ineed to improve, and then tell
me again what I do well and whatvision you have for the future,
because everybody wants to feelas if their mate is working
toward a collaborative futuretogether.
So many times they come into mycoaching office and they are so
(32:40):
ready to throw in the towel andthey're using divorce language
and separation language and allthat kind of stuff.
I would say don't start there.
Don't start there.
I'm not gonna say that itsometimes doesn't end there.
Unfortunately, not everymarriage can come back from the
brink of divorce, but by gollyyou can certainly try by just
being humble and and honest andauthentic and not getting in
(33:01):
defensive mode and becomingcritical of one another and
doing the blame game, because itreally is a sacred invitation
for someone to say I have needsthat I I'm feeling empty and raw
about and you're the safestperson on the planet that I want
(33:23):
to invite to and teach how tomeet those needs, because you're
the one I want to be closest to, you're the one for me.
You're it Like if you can tellit to them.
Like that.
It's a compliment, it's not acriticism.
Kate Aldrich (33:34):
I love that, I love that, and, and, as you said
, we can't demand anyone, but wecan invite them in.
Shannon Ethridge (33:40):
Yes, yes, right, and it may be an
evolution process.
It may take weeks or months, ormaybe years for some people to
really open those lines ofcommunication, and that's why I
think that it's so helpful towork with someone, a third party
, who can just kind of help you,navigate and mediate and
challenge you in ways that youmight not know how otherwise.
Kate Aldrich (34:03):
Yeah, that's really good.
I remember, and I think I toldyou this when I came home from
the women at the well, I thinkone of the statements that has
stuck with me the most was and Ithink you were talking on the
subject of emotional needsspecifically but you said, like
if you actually want, thebravest thing you can do, if you
want to get your emotionalneeds met, is ask for them.
Shannon Ethridge (34:26):
Yeah, I have people make a Cliff's Notes
version of their four-dayexperience by writing the 10
things that they want toremember and number one thing is
already filled in for them,because I really want to make
sure that they have it in theirhead yes, the number one way to
get your emotional needs met isto be vulnerable and ask for
what you need.
Yeah, it's amazing how thatworks, not just in a marriage
(34:48):
relationship with your kids,with friends, with coworkers.
Just be vulnerable and ask forwhat you need, instead of
critical and complain thatthey're not doing it because
they're not mind readers, theydon't always know.
Brad Aldrich (35:00):
Although I will add, Shannon, how often I work
with men who have absolutely noidea what their emotional needs
are.
Kate Aldrich (35:09):
They have no clue what any needs are they have no
clue what any any needs arecultivated in this culture right
the emotional.
Shannon Ethridge (35:15):
Language is a foreign concept, but emotional
physical needs like they ignorepretty much.
Brad Aldrich (35:23):
Men typically ignore most needs, relational,
spiritual other than the sexualneed that kind of has that nag
to it.
That's the one that they pursue.
And then in relationships, whenit happens that they're hearing
no a lot, they just go I don'thave any needs, so I just shove
them all back in the closet, andthis happens over and over.
Shannon Ethridge (35:46):
So yeah, and it is so important for all of
your listeners who are raisingboys understand that this
challenge of identifying howthey feel, or recognizing their
own needs, or recognizing theirwife's emotional language when
she's speaking it to him yeah,this didn't start after the
wedding.
This is a pattern that he grewup with.
(36:07):
Children are culturallyconditioned to either be
emotionally intuitive or totallynot, and the reasons are, you
know, different from onehousehold to the next.
But I definitely encourage bothnot just the moms, but the moms
and the dads to haveconversations with your kids,
not just about what they'redoing or where they're going or
(36:28):
who they're with or whatever,but how are you feeling?
Put a feelings chart on therefrigerator for crying out loud
Like.
That is one of those helpfulhousehold tools to teach kids
that, hey, what you're feelingright now has a name.
Let's go over and look at thefeelings chart and let's
identify what you're feeling.
Okay Well, how would you like tofeel?
(36:49):
Okay Well, what do you need tomove from how you're feeling to
how you want to feel Like?
Let's teach them this process.
I love Inside Out and Inside Out2.
Those movies are just so great.
Take your sons to go see thatmovie or those movies.
It is definitely a languagethat we have to instill in our
sons at an early age for them toreally be confident using it as
(37:11):
adults.
Yeah, I'm so glad you said that.
Kate Aldrich (37:13):
I agree 100% and the thing I've had to learn as a
parent is our kids' feelingsare okay, even if we're like, oh
, that makes me uncomfortable,like your interaction with what
they're feeling.
We don't need to shut it downjust because that makes me
concerned or that makes me right.
Like we have to also understand, as parents, our response to
theirs.
We don't need to shut it downjust because that makes me
concerned or that makes me right.
Like we have to also understand, as parents, our response to
(37:36):
theirs, because that's oftenwhat's happening.
And then they get shut down orthey feel like, oh, I saw mom
and dad looking upset, so now Ican't have that emotion, or it's
not safe to have that emotion.
And I think, remembering, asparents, the emotion is fine.
They can have whatever emotionthey're having, right and make
(37:57):
that be safe, absolutely.
Shannon Ethridge (37:59):
We need to teach them that our negative
emotions primarily sadness,anger and fear those are our
wisest teachers.
They're not villains, they'renot culprits, they're not things
to be feared.
Teachers, they're not villains,they're not culprits, they're
not things to be feared.
That's, that's our wisestteachers, knocking on the door
(38:20):
with a lesson for us, and thefaster we receive the lesson,
the quicker they'll go away anddissipate and let us return to
happiness and safety and peace.
So that is definitely.
I think that because so many ofus were raised in a household
or in the generation where ifyou were scared about something,
it's stop being a fraidy cat,stop being a scaredy baby.
(38:42):
You were belittled.
If you were angry, it was yougo to your room and don't you
come out until you get a civiltongue in your head.
You were not allowed to beangry, especially at an adult,
and don't you come out until youget a civil tongue in your head
.
You were not allowed to be angry, especially at an adult, and if
you were sad, it was stop thatcrying or I'm going to give you
something to cry about we wereconditioned as children to
(39:02):
repress all those negativeemotions.
So if we repress our negativeemotions, which are our wisest
teachers, how are we supposed tolearn in life Exactly, teachers
, how are we supposed to learnin life Exactly?
Absolutely vital to invitethose repressed negative
emotions up out of the basement,which is often what happens
when we do the 20 most pivotalmoments exercises.
It came with an emotionalimprint of these things that
(39:25):
have happened in their lifetimes.
There were certain feelings,and sometimes they can verbalize
that their parents or siblingsdid a very good job supporting
them, like in the death of afamily member or something like
that.
And there are other times whereit's like nobody even had any
clue how bad I was hurting.
Maybe it's when their parentsdivorced, or when they lost
(39:46):
their best friend, or when thedog died, or whatever the case
is.
Yeah, I think it's thoseseasons where we don't ask how
they are feeling and teach themlanguage that they can express
it with that we go awry and thatthey just repress those
feelings and carry them intoadulthood.
Yeah, so good.
Kate Aldrich (40:06):
Well, I often challenge people too and I think
in the church we need this thatI actually challenged.
There aren't really anynegative emotions.
God created all emotions assimply emotions.
I like that and he'sexperienced all of them.
God has.
And the thing I challenge peoplebecause I feel like in the
church they need to hear thatanger is not bad.
What we can do with it can besuper hurtful and have lots of
(40:32):
repercussions.
Even Jesus was angry, exactly,and I always say you know, if my
kids were flipping over thetable like in my house, I
probably wouldn't be superpleased.
Granted, there's a lot ofcultural context, there's stuff
about his family involved inthat.
But the reality is your angeris not bad, what you're doing
with it right.
(40:52):
We need to understand why theanger is.
Your anger is not bad, whatyou're doing with it right.
We need to understand why theanger is there.
But that's so healing for somany people because the church
has just said just tamp it down,control it, get over it, and
it's like no, their anger isactually trying to tell them
something.
Shannon Ethridge (41:05):
And once they learn to look at their childhood
through that lens of thoseemotions that felt negative at
the time, I'm never going tothink the same terms again.
Thank you for that great lessonjust now.
When they learn that it that itwas okay for them to have those
feelings, I think that's whenthey develop the confidence in
their marriage relationship.
It's okay to be afraid, it'sokay to be angry, it's okay to
(41:28):
be sad, it's okay to have grief.
I love being married to a grieftherapist, by the way.
It's just so refreshing to bepartnered with someone who knows
how to connect on that deepemotional level.
And so if husbands are reallystruggling with, how can I get
my wife to just be putty in myhands and be that sexually
(41:49):
confident wife?
I would say you know what?
Start with your emotional IQ.
I think that's actually thetitle of a book.
Is it Daniel Goldman orsomebody like that?
Kate Aldrich (41:57):
Yeah, Emotional intelligence yes, that's what I
was going to say.
Emotional intelligence, yeah,and it's true, and I think you
know we enter into grief morethan we realize, whether we're
aware of it or not, and it'ssomething we often talk about
with people.
That's a grief process, right?
So many things that havehappened in our childhood and
(42:17):
our lives.
It is a grief process and thatthere's nothing wrong with you
that?
You feel grief.
Shannon Ethridge (42:23):
That's part of the human experience the image
that comes to my mind.
I love showing people twodifferent pictures.
One is a light bulb in a roomwith white walls.
The other is a light bulb in aroom with white walls.
The other is a light bulb in aroom with black walls.
And which one radiates lightmore vividly to the human eye?
(42:43):
The one in the dark room.
The light is juxtaposed bestagainst the darkness, so grief
also helps us feel love andconnection more deeply.
It's not just a dark place thatwe go to and we'll never come
out, it's we feel joy morefreely when we allow ourselves
to feel the grief when it'sappropriate.
(43:05):
I also think that lettingourselves feel it is the only
way to heal it.
Ignoring it, repressing it allthe things that we were taught
to do as children I don't thinkthat that's ever productive,
healthy or beneficial in any way, shape or form.
Kate Aldrich (43:20):
Yeah, gosh, that's so good, we could keep talking
forever Shannon.
Brad Aldrich (43:24):
this has been so wonderful and helpful.
We really appreciate your timeand coming on and love what
you're doing, and we wouldhighly recommend couples to
check out couples at the well.
Um, you know, kate had awonderful experience at women at
the well yeah, phenomenal.
Kate Aldrich (43:42):
Definitely check out all of shannon's resources,
both books and what she offersher coaching services.
She is just a wealth ofknowledge and just such a sweet
person.
We just thank you so much forwho you are and for you growing
and who God has made you to be,because that's what allowed all
of this.
Shannon Ethridge (44:02):
Can I say two more very quick things?
I want to make people awarethat when we moved to
Springfield Missouri, weestablished a place, a property
that we operate as a VRBO, butour heart is families who are
deep in the trenches of griefbecause they've lost someone or
because of a divorce or becauseof whatever trauma may be.
(44:24):
It's a place where you can comeand you can work with both
Charlie and I.
Charlie specializes in grieftherapy, as I said, and play
therapy with children, and Iwork with adults, women and
couples.
So Springfield Missouri put iton your radar If you're going
through a season where you justreally need some time set apart
to go through the trenches andyou need somebody to hold your
(44:45):
hand in that process.
And also the second thing Iwanted to say is I got to have
you guys on my podcast withsexual confidence on tap because
I've known you guys on mypodcast with sexual confidence
on tap, because I've known youguys to be very sexually
confident for a very long time.
Yeah, you know, lots of peopleenter into this type of field
and they burn out after a yearor two or three, and I just love
(45:07):
the fact that you guys arestill galloping, still going
strong, still helping so manypeople.
Yeah, and I can tell that ithas had.
I can tell that there's atrickle down effect.
I can tell that it blesses youguys in your relationship to be
able to help other people intheir relationship.
Brad Aldrich (45:21):
That's always been evident to me, yep, god for
sure keeps growing us and youknow, there are plenty of times
I I say this to my clients nowlike there's plenty of times
that, through something thatwe're working on, I will
remember, like you know, what Iprobably need to do that better
as a husband right now, right,like there is places where we
(45:43):
keep working and growing, nomatter what.
Shannon Ethridge (45:46):
Yeah, I love the smile on Kate's face,
because what woman doesn't lovehearing her husband say there's
room for me to grow.
I want to do better for heryeah, so true, so true.
It means you're worth it?
Kate Aldrich (45:59):
yes, totally.
Before we run, we always shootthree quick questions at our
guests, so and we don't prepthem for it, we just love to
know what you think.
Off the cuff so so number onewhat are you doing right now to
keep your marriage alive?
Shannon Ethridge (46:15):
Well, right now my husband just had surgery,
so I'm literally bathing him,making sure that he feels like I
am there for him, because hisarm he had a shoulder
replacement surgery, so justmaking sure that he feels well,
tended to.
But if it wasn't in this seasonwhere you know, it's intense,
(46:37):
it's really intense to care forsomeone who is immobilized.
But we definitely do walks andtalks because I feel like
there's something magical aboutjust taking your mate by the
hand and even if it's just a 20minute walk or 30 minute walk,
just to walk and talk at sunsetor sunrise or whenever the you
know, whatever time of day, yeah, very important.
Kate Aldrich (46:56):
I love that.
What is number two?
What is something that makesyou laugh right now, brings you
joy?
Shannon Ethridge (47:03):
I have a 13 year old niece and to watch her
talk to my brother as if he isan alien with three heads,
because he's 62 and all he wantsto eat is salads and salmon.
Your time is coming, baby girl.
I love it.
Her name is Journey and I tookher to a Journey concert and, oh
my gosh, to watch her just jamout to Journey it was so fun.
Kate Aldrich (47:24):
I love that.
That's amazing.
Okay, third one what issomething that you're doing
right now that brings you rest?
Shannon Ethridge (47:33):
I got an infrared sauna a couple of years
ago for the VRBO.
I wanted people to have that,but I realized I need it too.
So I've been carving out timeto just lay in that infrared
sauna and sweat like a pig foran hour, because it just gets
all the toxins out and it justmakes you sweat and like I don't
(47:54):
exercise hard enough to break asweat, so I feel like that's
that's good.
Does it for you?
I like it.
That does it for me.
Infrared sauna is fantastic.
Kate Aldrich (48:02):
I love it okay, putting that on our list, honey,
okay that's so good.
Brad Aldrich (48:07):
Well, thank you so much, shannon.
We're just honored to have youon, and that's all for this week
on Still Becoming One Untilnext time.
I'm Brad Aldrich.
Kate Aldrich (48:17):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Brad Aldrich (48:23):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrichministriescom.
For podcast show notes andlinks to resources in all of our
social media.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(48:46):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts,
and be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on still
becoming one.
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