October 1, 2025 • 50 mins
Brad and Kate explore how our personal stories and childhood experiences shape our marriage relationships in profound ways. Story work provides couples with a framework to understand recurring conflicts and create healthier patterns of interaction.
We invite you to start your own story exploration and join us next week as we continue our series on story work and its impact on marriage.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are still
becoming one.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hello everyone, Welcome back to Still Becoming
One.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
This is fun.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That's what I was thinking too.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
So Kate and I I hope it doesn't sound too much
different on the podcast We'll,we'll see.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Okay, I was going to say it doesn't sound different
to me, but that doesn't mean itwon't.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Kind of rearranged and um set up a little bit
differently, so now we canactually do these conversations
looking at each other.
That's kind of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It is.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And we are hoping that we can do some video
recording and at least do somesnippets of what we're putting
in the podcast that we can usefor social media and other
things like that, and we'll seewhere all that goes.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, so we're currently looking, but we look
at each other when we do thepodcast anyways.
I just have to look sideways.
Yep, so now we're actuallyfacing each other.
It's going to be exciting itwill.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
It will, of course.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
No, I always like looking at you, it's not a
problem oh, me either I justthink this could be like danger
zone where we just like you know, have our conversations that
everybody thinks are amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yes, exactly Right.
It's maybe a little easier toget into things this way.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Probably, I would think so, that's right.
But yeah, we're going to, we'retoying with it, We'll see how
it works out.
Just fair warning, if should,we do the videos.
I'm not dressing up everyMonday.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
No.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I told Brad that as soon as, as soon as he was like,
yeah, this would be a fun idea.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I'm like, okay, they're all gonna get the monday
morning me I know, I totallyunderstand and I think that's
who we really are.
And, yes, we can maybe havesome videos where we, you know,
don't do it on a monday morning,but you know there are other
times some monday mornings I getup, get ready right, exactly
(02:26):
monday mornings less.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
But you know I have been bemoaning this for years.
You actually were like sad whenyou decided to shave your head
because you know you're like,okay, I'm losing too much hair.
I would love to have a shavedhead because then I could get up
every morning and lookfantastic without having to do
anything.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yes, that is an advantage.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
It is.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I just kind of brush the beard down and then that's
about it.
Brush the beard, so it's prettyeasy.
Yes, I do admit it takes me alittle while to shave it every
couple of days, but that's aboutit.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I do admit it takes me a little while to shave it
every couple of days, but that'sabout it.
I'll never forget the time thatyou were like I.
I had like the epiphany.
I was like do you cause Iusually handle buying like the
shower items and everything.
I'm like, do you need moreshampoo?
And you're like, for what?
I was like oh, I guess youdon't.
Okay, you're like I can justuse regular soap on my head now,
(03:26):
because it's not hair anymore.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So, anyways, just know you'll see the real us,
which is kind of us, anyways itis, I don't know I know, and
that's kind of what I wasthinking anyway, our podcast is
really us having conversationsanymore.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Is really us having conversations anymore?
And you know, kind of thinkingthrough a lot of the
conversations that we used toget into over dinner or
something like that, and we'd belike, oh you know, we should
have this conversation on thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
There you go, so now dinner is just us.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I know it's been interesting.
Yeah, we told everyone a coupleof weeks ago that we were kind
of jumped into empty nest reallyquickly.
So, yeah, how would you saythat's been going?
What's it been like?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
and say I don't know if we said this on air before,
but I was a little apprehensive,because I enjoy spending all of
my time with you.
Never really had a problem withthat, and you do too, but you
also.
We're both introverts, but yourintrovertedness needs just time
for you, which is totally fine.
And so I was a little worriedthat I was going to suck up that
(04:46):
time you are.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I am, it's just right on the line.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Correct.
So you need the best of bothworlds, right.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Exactly, I am still an extrovert that needs some of
that social and needs some ofthat time.
It's just yeah, there are timesthat I'm like, okay, I need a
little bit of me time and that'sone of my self-care things that
I've learned over the years,like I never thought that, as
(05:13):
you know, a younger person,Needing me time.
Yeah, that wasn't really.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, well, it plays into what we're talking about
today Story.
We talk about that a lotbecause we think it's super
important, but I yeah, part ofmy story is that I enjoy being
around the people that I trust.
It's not like I want to bearound lots of random people,
but you're one of those peopleand so.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
But I enjoy being around you as well.
I'm not worried about that sideof things.
I enjoy being around you aswell.
He says as well, I'm notworried about that side of
things.
I think the thing that you'respecifically talking about is
more my ADHD.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, you can't function with me around you tend
to like.
Verbal processing.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Right verbal process, the work that you're doing or
the things that you're seeing orthe kind of things, and I can't
get anything done while thathappens.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It's my own ADHD, but it functions differently in me.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So yeah, so yeah, that would be.
The challenge is that I needthe space in order to get work
done, that I need this space inorder to get work done, but
social time like downtime.
I'm good with hanging out.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, I think it's been fine.
I think we're figuring thingsout.
I think we were super excitedfor this time, but I think I am
realizing how much of that, forme, was met with managing lack
of better term, their schedulesright.
(06:50):
I got that interaction believeit or not, that I was
necessarily looking for it fromour kids, and so it's just
different.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Um, I think there is a huge time shift in some of
that right.
Like you, you know, and we'vesaid on the podcast before,
we've had all different types ofarrangements and work levels
and all that kind of stuff inour, in our married life.
But for the last 10 yearsyou've chosen to work more
(07:21):
part-time.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think we chose that too.
I would say it was a decisiontogether.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Correct, it was an us decision, but you were a part
of that decision for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
It wasn't like me telling you oh gosh, no, that's
not us either.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
But you've chosen to work 20-ish hours a week,
knowing that there's another30-plus hours a week that you
were doing kid stuff, home stuff, like those kind of things.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So you were definitely working very for full
time, just right, some of thatwas yeah, running kids around
and all the and connecting withthem, checking in on them the
two that we had at home at thetime, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Now that that's less, it's not gone by any means.
We still have kid time, youknow, it's just less.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's mainly on the phone too.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Our daughter, who's only like an hour and a half
away, our middle daughter forcollege.
She popped home this weekend,which was amazing and fun, but
yeah, it's just.
It's such a strange time.
Someone recently told us we'renot empty nesters because
they're in college, but it does.
And they'll come back and theywill, but it still feels that
way the majority of the time.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I don't know in this, in our generation of parents,
how you ever get to empty nestin in that reality, because the
delayed like delayed figuringout where kids go long term it's
so difficult because of housingprices and job issues, and you
know, it's just not unusual forkids mid or late 20s to need a
place to land for a little while.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Man, I can't imagine waiting till empty nest for that
hurdle to be completely done.
Who knows when that would everbe.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And that's why we're taking it now.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Because it may change again.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So one of the things that we're doing in our empty
nest, although we kind ofdecided to do this even before.
I was going to say it justhappened to work out that way,
yeah is both of us are signed upto take the next level of the
narrative therapy, trauma careum.
From dan allender the allendercenter yep, and so that is a
(09:42):
intensive, what?
Six month commitment.
I think it's longer than that,isn't it something like that?
Because we start in and so thatis a intensive, what six-month
commitment.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I think it's longer than that, isn't it?
Yeah, something like that,because we start in October and
end in March.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
March yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Oh, so yeah, maybe Six months, maybe.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So we are jumping into that course and looking
forward to it.
Both of us took the NFTC1 level.
Now what two years ago, alittle over two years ago?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
No, I think it's longer than that it's three.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
It'd be three years ago.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I was going to say because my dad passed away right
before your mom passed away aswe were ending.
Right, and I'm thinking yeah,that was three years ago, yeah
because I think yeah, I think soso thinking on air, I don't
know guys that's okay but itdoes seem, I think it's longer
than that, so yeah, what are youhoping to get out of nftc2?
(10:35):
Oh, um, I mean learning more.
I think I've, as I'veunderstood, nftc2.
There's a lot of like how yourown story influences how you
engage other people's stories,which is I get it completely
true.
So I think there's gonna be um,there's gonna be a lot of that
(10:59):
which I'm I think I need tolearn more about and be more, um
, cognizant of that.
So that's a good thing, I don'tknow, I think, just learning
more about, well, as we'rereading the book about the body
and how it all impacts, like Ithink there's going to be a
focus on that, of course.
Well, it's trauma care.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Focus trauma care, so definitely anticipate that.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah, I don't know, so definitely anticipate that.
I mean this is all a part ofthe category of work out there
that they call trauma-informedcare, right, and trying to make
sure that we know what we'redoing in our coaching and our
counseling that does respect andhonor the trauma work that
(11:43):
people need as they're goingthrough often really hard things
.
And that's some of why wedecided we wanted to talk about
story work today, and you know,probably do a little bit of
series of what is story work,what do we mean by those terms
and how do we use story to helpcouples actually grow in their
(12:07):
relationship?
Because still, while we do, nowhave people coming to us and
going oh wait, you do story work.
I want that Right Like so you dohave some of that, but I would
say the bulk of our clientsstill are going.
I'm struggling in myrelationship.
How do you help me Right and intheir marriage.
(12:29):
Yeah, and so then we're kind ofgoing okay, let's talk about
the relationship, let's talkabout you know, all of those
kinds of things, but then let'salso get into your story.
Right, right, yeah Well yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And what does?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
that even mean.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I think that's kind of our niche that make us a
little different than a lot ofother people Although there are
people out there you can get whofocus on this in marriage, but
I think it's a pretty limitednumber.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Individuals.
I think there's a lot, a lot ofpeople are doing this work in
individual.
There's only a few.
Steve and Lisa Call that we hadon the show a couple of weeks
ago is one of them.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And Dan and Becky, because they sometimes do theirs
together right, Correct themarriage retreats or whatever,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
But I don't know that many who are I mean obviously
we have Barbara Case on ourstaff and she and her husband
are doing some of that as well.
So we've kind of tried to seekout the people who are doing
story work for marriages,because I think it's really
beneficial.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And we keep seeing it in everyday arguments right,
that's something that peoplebring to our sessions all the
time right.
We sit down with people andthey go.
Oh, we just had this bigargument and want to talk about
what happened and why thisperson got upset when they came
home or whatever it was, andit's just so easy to see
(14:05):
people's story popping in.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and I think, just listening to that, the one
thing I would encourage peoplewho are listening is, if you're
a married couple, that if one ofyou is doing story work, I
would encourage the other one totake a brave step and do it as
well.
Because sometimes I do thinkthere is a place, and it's great
if we have spouses separatelythat they can just dive right
(14:28):
into their story and not beworried so much about the
dynamics between the two of them.
Yet but I know that's hardbecause usually people come to
us in a tough space.
But I think it's because ourstories are always rubbing up
against each other, bumping upagainst each other.
Whatever analogy you want touse, you have to understand
(14:50):
what's at play for both.
Yeah Right, helping one spouseunderstand what's happening for
them is great and that candrastically change things, but
it can't completely if someoneis still in their own pattern
that they don't understand.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Correct.
So before we get too far aheadof ourselves, let's maybe define
what does story work, even mean?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Okay, do you want me to define it?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Why.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Because you're good at it.
I've heard you say this and Ithink it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Oh, I'm glad.
I'm glad.
I just don't know what I'mabout to say.
So I'm glad that you thinkwhatever I'm about to say is
going to be amazing.
I think StoryWorker is ajourney into your own story,
which is your background, yourfamily, your community, your
everything that has shaped youbefore.
Adolescence kind of solidifiesour brains and how we have
(15:53):
interpreted the world.
There's lots of pieces to it,but that's how we continue your
story.
Your childhood, your teenage,hood, like that is the lens you
are doing life with.
Yeah Right, and story for meanswers the questions of why do
I do what I do, which often canbe very frustrating.
(16:14):
Why do I do that?
Why do I keep doing it?
Why can't I stop doing it?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Why can't I choose something different?
Um story work enables us todive into those things and
actually have some answers andthen have the ability to move
towards healing or freedom fromthose things.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
So, yeah, I think that's exactly right.
It is trying to explain the whyam I upset about that?
Why am I hurt by that?
Why am I getting angry rightnow?
Why am I yelling when I don'twant to?
Why am I doing X?
So it's trying to understandsome of those things.
And it's doing it in a way thatis looking at and informed on
(17:00):
are trauma.
Now I'm going to guess mostpeople like myself feel like, oh
well, I guess this doesn'tapply for me because I didn't
have any big, huge traumas whenI was growing up.
Nobody died, there was noshooting that happened.
(17:22):
There was know.
I didn't live through 9-11, youknow those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
All the things that the world would describe and
honor as trauma.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, and those are huge, significant, big traumas,
right, and every once in a whilewe get clients who have had
those experiences thinksomething horrific that happened
, that literally anyone hearingthis story would go, oh my
goodness, that's a trauma, and Ithink those are obviously
(17:55):
really big and important and wecan honor how hard that is.
The challenge, I think, is howoften other things become, or
were, a trauma for us because,we did not have the cognitive
ability or the relationshipability to process them at the
(18:18):
time.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.
And so things that were not bigT traumas where we were put in
situations where we didn't knowwhat to do, where we felt
overwhelmed and we just didn'thave the support that we needed
to get through that situationbecame stuck points.
(18:41):
Yeah.
And all of us have them.
Right.
Absolutely stuck points, yeah,and all of us have them right.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
absolutely every one of us have those moments that
really, you know, keep us, yeah,stuck well, and we've heard dan
allender say several times overour training and the book we're
just reading for nftc2.
Um, hillary mcide said I thinkthat's her name said the same
thing of like little T traumas,those things that we all
(19:10):
experience as average peoplewhere our parents were maybe not
in tune, or a teacher or afriend at school like right.
All of these things there arelittle T traumas, but they often
add up and they are harder forus to honor than the ones that
the world says are horrible.
(19:32):
Right, understandably so, butthe reality is we need to
understand how that impacted youas an individual and what were
your strategies coming out ofthat?
Or the repeated little Ttraumas.
So I think it's huge and it'salso really hard to honor it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
give it the voice that it needs and be able to,
like, move in a positive placewith that and I think it's
interesting, right, this is notnecessarily every time you are
in a hard situation.
I have like and I've searchedsome of my memory of this like I
remember being bullied as ayoung boy and being in those
(20:21):
kind of really overwhelmingsituations, and there's a couple
of fuzzy ones that I can kindof remember.
But, it's more this generalizedfeeling of not knowing what to
do and those kind of things.
And so in many ways those I'mnot saying they were good, those
were hard memories for me.
(20:43):
And they certainly laid thegroundwork for other traumas.
But for me and I really justmean this, for me those were
less the traumas than some ofthe other things that happened,
and I can tell by how my brainhas stored the memories.
I can go back to third gradeand remember, you know, some of
(21:07):
the teasing and some of thosekinds of things, but it's not
vivid.
It's there.
I know what they called me.
I know like those kinds ofthings, but it's not vivid for
me.
Yeah.
Where story work often goes intothose moments that are frozen
memories.
Right, it's the vivid pictureof something happening, it's the
(21:33):
oh my gosh.
I remember this in so muchdetail.
I have no idea why.
Kind of moment.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Although some people I hear that, but remember it's
still, although some people.
I hear that, but remember it'sstill remember it vividly, but
it's just snapshots.
Yeah right, it's not like Iremember, start to finish all
the way, because that's whatpeople somehow think they should
.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah, I find, and that's just not how our memory
works we wouldn't be able tosurvive, remembered everything
no, no, no from the moment itstarted to the moment it ended
no, the I've heard it explainedthat, like when we get into that
fight or flight mode, that oneof the things that happens to us
is our mind, our brain, isaccessing more information.
(22:18):
So it acts like a slow-mo videobecause, if you want to do a
slow-mo video.
you actually increase the framerate right, like you make it go
faster.
So then when you play it backat normal speed, it is slow-mo.
That's kind of what's happeningin our brain in a trauma it's
taking in more information.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
So then afterwards, we don't know what to do with
all of that information.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Our brain doesn't know what to do with that
information, and so thenafterwards, we don't know what
to do with all of thatinformation.
Our brain doesn't know what todo with that information, and so
it often gets stuck.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right, and it often as a young child, teenager tries
to figure out okay.
So this is a situation I'm inregularly which can absolutely
happen with bullying or at home,and your little mind and your
little body says okay, if I dothis, that helps me right, right
(23:11):
, and it could be somethingright a strategy.
It could be something that helpsyou to be seen with your family
, helps you to not cause tension.
Like strategies are just thingsyou come up with to survive the
best you can in your familysituation, and sometimes it's
(23:31):
also coping strategies.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Right, that's what happens and that's why it's
frozen and we're kind of stuck,like when we talked a lot or
didn't talk at all or wentaround and made sure we had all
our homework done or, you know,did all kinds of things in order
to gain attention.
We worked really hard to be thebest on the soccer field.
(23:57):
We worked, you know, in so manydifferent avenues.
We worked to fix things that wedidn't know what we were doing
or, as dan allender says, torestore peace to our lives.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
The problem is they're broken like they're not
real restoration right it'stemporary.
Oftentimes it ends up hurtingus or someone else.
Words, you know, like anger,but those are not the only ones,
right, so yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And you know we were talking about introvert
extrovert earlier, like the, andthis is just one of those
interesting things.
I am an extrovert.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
I I know I'm an extrovert, but as I've grown, I
said we were both introverts,though I know you did.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
But I'm an extrovert.
But as I've grown older I'verecognized and gotten closer to
my introverted side, likethere's places of self-care in
being alone and I've learned togrow in that.
But as we're talking abouttrauma stuff, I grew up in a
(25:05):
family of four that three ofthem were pretty far on the
introverted scale and here I am,the extrovert kind of like,
bouncing around a little bit andwanting to be social and
wanting to do things, wanting tobe social and wanting to do
(25:27):
things and like that wasn't whatwas normal in my household, and
so like I think I learned thestrategy of spending a lot of
time by myself, which is why ittook me so long to come back to
that being healthy.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Hmm, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Because for a long time it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So you would mainly consider yourself an extrovert.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, oh, I mean, if I look at the true definition of
introvert and extrovert.
Introvert is that I gain energyby being by myself and I spend
energy when I'm social Right.
Extrovert is the reverse I'mgaining energy when I'm with
other people and I'm spendingthat energy when I'm by myself.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
So it's not even what I like or dislike.
It's where you get energized.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
And I absolutely get energized from being with my
clients, being with people,being in groups, being like I
had my.
I'm doing a new group thisseason and had a first meeting
with them and I had a bunch ofguys and it's two hours eight to
(26:39):
10 on my time zone, cause somepeople aren't in the same time
zone, so it ends at 10 o'clockat night and I'm buzzing, you
know like, just because thatfilled my battery and in a
really good way.
I had lots of energy, but it'sthen.
It's like okay, I got to go tobed soon.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So that's what I mean by the extrovert side of me I
was going to say because I feellike in the last bunch of years
you've more leaned and saidyou're leaning towards introvert
.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
There are definitely places where I am, and I think
some of that is my self-care.
I know there's times I need toquiet myself and I need to learn
how to be with myself again ina healthy way.
You're fun to be with.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I appreciate that you are, um, yeah, I get that.
Okay, so brad's an extrovertguys, but you ride the line.
Oh, I do, I absolutely.
I feel like you have one footon each side as I've grown older
I'm I'm definitely more in that.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
That other camp of like okay, I got a little too
much people Now I need some justme time, like that does happen,
which takes you only like 5.3minutes.
Depends which people.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, and that's what I would say If I'm with people
the very few, select few thatare kind of in my inner circle
not because I'm exclusive, butbecause it's hard to bare your
soul to tons of people and Iwant my inner circle to be ones
that know me, can challenge me,call me out, but also love me in
the hardest moments, so withthem I never feel like I can't
(28:18):
just spend time with them.
But spending time with themdoesn't drain me like spending
time with large groups of peoplewhom I don't know, or I'm
having to make small talk andyou know that kind of thing.
So I'm definitely moreintroverted, but it took me a
long time to understand thatbecause, yes, for me escaping
(28:40):
from my family was also a copingstrategy.
Right, and teenage years Ithink that's also kind of a
somewhat normal stage you gothrough.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So.
So how do we do this work whilerespecting, like we're not
trying to turn people againsttheir family?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Well, and I think sometimes, yes, we're not trying
to.
I say all the time reiterate tomy clients I'm not judging your
family, I am not decidingthings about them.
Most parents, they are doingthe best they can and they
(29:26):
aren't right Like it is what'savailable to them emotionally,
physically, but it's oftentimesmissing the mark with their
kiddos.
And I can stand on the one sideand be the person in my family
we're talking about.
I can also stand on the otherside and be the mom who knows
I've done this to my kids attimes.
(29:47):
So it really is just trying tofind that balance of honor and
honesty.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
I think we need to, and should, figure out what it
means to honor a parent in howthey attempted to love us, even
in places where that love seemsoff right.
Like there are times we can lookhard and try and understand
(30:18):
what that means.
So you know, but for many of usit's okay.
My parents tried their best orI can see you know their parent
was this.
So look at what my parent didright, and we can honor the
growth in them, we can honortheir attempts at connection,
but we can also honor our ownstruggle and our own pain and go
(30:43):
yeah, but there were times Iwas still hurting and that
wasn't necessarily their faultLike we're not looking at trying
to place blame with our stories.
We're going okay.
You know what I saw this thing,you know that happened.
I saw this differentrelationship that you had with
(31:06):
my sibling, or I saw thisdifferent way that you you know
treated me, or something likethat In that work.
We can be hurt by that and wecan acknowledge that and try to
you know and try to understandand be honoring what that means
for us.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, I think the challenge comes in where we push
into families most of the time,because I don't feel like I've
ever done any stories wheretheir family doesn't come in
somewhere.
I think, in order to behonoring, we have to actually be
honest, right, right, order tobe honoring, we have to actually
be honest, right, because ifwe're not honest about how it
(31:45):
impacted us emotionally, in ourbody, spiritually, all those
things, then we will always comedown on the side of
self-contempt for ourselves.
Why did I do that?
That was dumb, all of that kindof stuff.
And yet yet, as a child, yourbrain isn't developed enough to
(32:06):
figure it out.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
That's why your parents are there to help you
navigate and figure it out, andso I think it's interesting, I
mean, you said it really well wetrade contempt for somebody who
hurt us or missed somethingwith for self-contempt, right,
because they were our parentsand they were for self-contempt.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Right, because they were our parents and they were
doing the best they could.
Right, and maybe we've evenbeen told that, but it you know,
dan Allender says we have to bebrave and name the harm, the
harm and who caused the harm.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Right, because people are complex, no one's all good,
no one's all good, no one's allbad, and if we don't understand
the complexities and are ableto name them, then we just
continue to beat ourselves up,do things that are not helpful,
do things that are painful andhurtful.
Right, and so it really is ajourney to figuring that out for
(33:00):
yourself, so that you can honoryour family better.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, and that's the goal.
Right Is not to, oh, make youacknowledge all the places that
your parents screwed up so thatthen you separate from them.
Like you know, I think that'sthe fear out there, but and it's
not even necessarily so you cango back to your parents and get
them to acknowledge all theplaces where they messed up.
(33:27):
Really, the goal of story workand trauma care is to go wow,
why is it that I'm stillcarrying this self-contempt?
Like you said, or why am Istill carrying these various
wounds?
that then impact my otherrelationships.
That then, impact other placeswhere I'm interacting with
(33:50):
people in a certain way and theystart showing up.
Yeah.
That's the challenge is, how dowe see this reflected into our
future, because these storiesdon't stay in the past right.
They don't just happened backthere and now I haven't thought
(34:10):
about it for 100 years and it'sjust there.
It really is something that isimpacting us as we go through
our lives, as we go through howwe interact with people, and
certainly this is where Kate andI keep coming back to.
Certainly it interacts with ourmarriage all the time.
(34:34):
The whole dynamic that we weretalking about of me learning how
to spend time by myself andenjoying time by myself is
something that I have worked onas I've tried to understand my
story and understand myself.
(34:54):
Totally honest, like when we gotmarried, I didn't like spending
time by myself.
Time by myself was bad.
And so I would avoid it at allcosts, and I think that was part
of my story playing out right.
I didn't really like being withme.
And so then I would try andavoid that and fill that with
(35:18):
anything possible and so oftengot filled with TV or often got
filled with distractions orother things.
Where, as I've grown and triedto get a little healthier, there
is a place of me learning howto actually like being with
myself and liking what I likeand being for me, it almost
(35:41):
always is being outdoors.
Right, this weekend you andLily were hanging out a little
bit and so I had reading to doso for our course, so I was like
you know what?
I'm going to go sit outdoors.
It's lovely.
I'm going to go sit outside andread for a little while and
just kind of enjoying being inthe outdoors by myself is
something I've recognized I needand is a healthy thing for me.
(36:05):
I think that is me trying tounderstand my story.
I think at the same time thatcan bump into your story of
feeling like I'm pulling away insome ways that that can
activate your story.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, and it's interesting because I, like I'm
sitting here trying to think doI enjoy time by myself?
I do.
I think as a mom, I've falleninto or drove straight into I
don't know like time.
You know, up until this year,time by myself was.
Cleaning and doing house chores,and it was a commodity and if
(36:45):
there's, any kids in the house,like you cannot guarantee it and
um, which I love, having mykids in the house, so it's not
that at all.
Um, so I think, uh, time alonefor me is okay.
I tend to be more comfortablewith it when no one is here, if
that makes sense, cause I thinkI feel that pull of, like, my
(37:09):
responsibilities in the home,what I want to cultivate in our
home, those kinds of things.
Um, and with you I will say,like I've been trying to think
about it more.
I just enjoy your company, likeI enjoy sitting next to you,
which I know you would allow meto do when you're outside.
It's hard for me not to talk toyou, so like and I'm trying to
(37:31):
think where that would be in mystory, probably because I don't
I generally don't feel likepeople in my family understood
me or wanted to know, but I canbe a bit of a verbal processor
too.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
So anyways.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
But I think, if I can put it out there, I think you
worry that my wanting to be bymyself is because something with
you.
Hmm, Something with me like youdon't want to be around me.
Right, something with me, likeyou don't want to be around me,
right, like something?
Right, or you're being too much, or you're being, you know, too
(38:07):
needy, or something, so now I'mpulling away in order to do
that, which is not that at allyeah, no, I don't, I don't know
that.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I think that so much.
I think, because of our story,sometimes space feels vulnerable
to me, or like, yeah, eventhough you've been walking your
freedom journey and I don'treally worry about that a ton,
but I think it probably doesinfluence that.
Um, so, yeah, I I'm trying tothink where my story would come
(38:39):
in, where it as far as likewanting to be alone or not.
I spent a lot of time alone asa teenager, but you're not wrong
, I filled it with music, right,like I would just listen to
music all the time.
So I mean, that's the reality.
Our stories are bumping,whether we realize it or not.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
And that's that's kind of my point.
Is this thing that I may betrying to do for health can send
off ripples that could bebumping into your story?
Yeah which then you come backand be like oh, why are you
going away, right, like.
And then I'm like well, wait aminute, like you're right, like,
(39:18):
this is how you make me soundso pathetic.
I'm not even saying that'ssomething.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Why are you going?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
away.
I'm not saying that's somethingyou would say, I'm just giving
you an example of how storiesbump into each other right, and
you know it's this, thenfrustrating thing.
That's like wait.
Why are you upset by this?
This is not, you know, know,that kind of dynamic that
happens that definitely happenedin the beginning of our
(39:45):
marriage.
Sure, I think, for sure, um, Idon't I think it even happened
in the beginning of my trying tofigure out what alone time was,
because and and this is stillsomewhat true in the time, wise,
not not the emotions is, atthat time I was working full
(40:08):
time, you were homeschooling anddealing with little kids full
time, and so any alone time Ihad was taking away time with
you or the family.
Right Cause, right so it, oryour assistance or the family
right Cause, right so it, oryour assistance with the family.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
that's probably more correct.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Right Like so it was a cost.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
You're like claiming this was years ago.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
When, when that was happening,I think there was a place that
you're like well, wait a minute,why don't you want to spend
time with us and like me tryingto go, okay, like you know
trying to figure out whathealthy looked like in this and
how to keep growing, and youknow those kinds of things was a
hard journey.
(40:52):
I think I think we workedthrough it because it is a cost,
right, like if we're justtalking alone time, that is a
cost for a couple.
And.
I think it's something that wetried to work through, and
there's been times that I'vetaken personal retreats and
things like that, but I've beenreally, I think been really
(41:14):
intentional of coming home andgoing.
Okay, here's the benefit ofthat right.
Like not just okay, now I'mexhausted, Although that does
happen sometimes because I tendto hike too much when I'm on a
personal retreat and then, Icome home and I'm like, oh, I'm
sore, but anyway like trying tobe here and be present.
(41:39):
I don't know.
I think, that's just an exampleof how sometimes stories run
into each other.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Well, and we, yes, and I think one of the ones like
that is a dynamic you can thinkabout in your marriage.
There are so many others likefiguring out when one of us is
sick, like how that dynamicimpacts.
That's probably the one I feellike people grasp really well
when we share it, but like thereare lots of different things
(42:06):
that our story is playingeverything.
Really Sometimes it justdoesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You don't notice.
I mean, being sick is such aninteresting dynamic, right?
Because you can probably thinkthrough what was what happened
to you when you were sick as akid and that feels very normal
yeah although it's probablydifferent for you and your
spouse of what happenedabsolutely right in my household
(42:34):
.
I was pretty much sent to myroom if I was sick sounds like
fun and sometimes I would beallowed like to come down and
watch tv or something like siton the sofa for a little bit,
like that kind of thing, but itwas pretty much alone and it's
crazy.
I can't even imagine that Imean I can actually and like,
(43:02):
and this is just you know how myparents did life, but like if
one of my parents was sick, theywould then sleep in separate
bedrooms so not to get otherpeople sick.
Like this was household, notjust me.
It was like if the house was,you were kind of supposed to
isolate yourself so that youdon't get other people sick.
(43:22):
That was the rules, and so thatmeant kind of being by myself a
lot.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Which actually does mirror or does look a little bit
like what happened to you.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
It does.
But I think, yeah, I feel likemine's complicated and
convoluted.
But I was left alone, but notbecause I suffered from
migraines.
I still do Like that kind ofthing.
I was usually left alone,preferred to be alone.
Well, I don't know what camefirst, if I'm honest, but having
(44:01):
a migraine and a bunch ofpeople around you making noise
and whatever.
I would often go to my roomwith those.
But then I think when I'mtalking about other sickness
besides that, we were the familythat you got to lay on the sofa
right, you got to be ineverybody else's space.
I don't remember my parentstalking too much about like,
(44:23):
don't spread it.
I think probably my own viewson that is reflective of like.
When our kids have been sick,I've been like it's inevitable.
We all live in each other'sspaces.
Of course, I don't need one kidgoing over and licking the
other kid's snotty hand, needone kid going over and licking
(44:44):
the other kid's snotty hand,like I mean, we're not doing
stuff like that, but and we'vevery much done that with our
kiddos when they're sick, likethey get to sleep on the sofa.
Yeah, Um so, but yes, mine whenI was sick, otherwise I was
invited into a space of myfamily.
But I think I learned veryquickly, with my mom
(45:05):
specifically, and whatnot, itwas just better not to be sick.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Not to be sick and to keep going.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Right.
So most of my history withbeing sick is what I do I just
keep going.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
You know, and I'm dealing with something right now
and it's health-wise, and it'shard for me to slow down and
just be like okay right.
Right, so you can see how thosedynamics me not slowing down
you going to the room andisolating.
In the beginning it was like ohmy word.
(45:39):
First of all, do you not likeme anymore?
Second of all, dude you meanymore.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Second of all, dude, you can still do things when
you're sick well, and there weretimes that I, you like, I'd
isolate all day in the bedroomand then you'd come in to go to
bed and I'm like, okay, I guessI'll go sleep on the sofa then.
Right, like with this idea of Ineed to isolate myself from you
, so I don't get sick, I know,but that was what was normal for
(46:06):
me right.
Is I'm supposed to handle thisby myself.
And so I fight that instinct tojust, when I'm sick, just
retreat and you can see how thattrigger that feels normal ends
up doing things for you.
And then I end up minimizingyour sick of like when you're
(46:32):
like oh no, I'm fine, I'll justkeep going.
I'm like okay, I guess she'snot that sick, right because I
don't, I don't recognize it.
I don't recognize it, I don'tsee it.
So I'm like okay, like you know,kind of thing, and it's only
much later that I've been likewhoa, you need to stop, you need
to let your body be sick, right, like you know, that kind of
(46:53):
thing that.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Yeah, I'm not so good with that.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
I know.
Anyway.
So I'm working on it, but yeah.
This is all stuff that we'vedone and understood about each
other, like I now know that when.
Kate's sick.
There is this message that saysshe has to keep going.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Right.
And so then there's a place ofcare that I can start to say hey
, wait a minute, I see you.
You don't have to do that,right, right.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Yeah, and I think that's what we right.
That's where our stories,understanding that for both of
us is so helpful, because Bradis able to enter in and say, hey
, maybe you should cancel thatfor today.
Like, yes, of course we can'talways cancel everything, that's
just not life, but you've beenable to enter into that and then
I've been able to enter intoand hold for you Okay, you don't
feel good, you need time toyourself, right, and not taking
(47:53):
that as personal.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
And you not taking personally that I won't let you
help me.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Right, and it's not anymore.
I'm just so used to doing it onmy own.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
We both went on our own, but for different reasons.
That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Right, like you can have a similar response.
Look very different between twopeople and this really is the
heart of story work isunderstanding yourself better
and understanding your spousebetter and as you do that, all
of a sudden some of thearguments that you used to have
go.
Oh okay, so you're not doingthat because you're mad at me?
(48:34):
You're not doing that becauseyou're something else.
You're acting out of thisstrategy that you've developed.
You've acted right in thatplace.
So, we're going to be spendingthe next couple probably a
couple of weeks exploring moreabout some of the story work and
talking through how we do thatas a couple, what it looks like,
what we're learning as wejourney in some of this, so I
(48:57):
hope that you'll join us on that.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
And we'll be a part of us learning even more as
we're going through anotherlevel.
Of course, and keep learningfor each other.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
I would encourage people like if you're listening
to this, have the conversationof what do I do when I'm sick?
What do you observe I do whenI'm sick?
Yeah, when does that come from?
Yeah, right, like that's a diveinto story, right there.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Because every from Right Like that's a dive into
story right there of like,because every husband and wife
dynamic you've had to have itlike everybody gets sick at some
point.
So yeah, just kind of I'd becurious for those couples to
just enter into thatconversation.
That's really good.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
All right.
Well, this is great.
This is a lot of fun, and we'regoing to keep talking about
stories and about marriage andhow we can keep growing towards
each other as we are journeyingtowards still becoming one.
Until next time, I'm BradAldrich.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Still Becoming One is a production of aldrich
ministries.
For more information about bradand kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrich ministriescom forpodcast show notes and links to
resources and all of our socialmedia.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(50:24):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts,
and be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are still
becoming one.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hello everyone, Welcome back to Still Becoming
One.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
This is fun.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That's what I was thinking too.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
So Kate and I I hope it doesn't sound too much
different on the podcast We'll,we'll see.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Okay, I was going to say it doesn't sound different
to me, but that doesn't mean itwon't.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Kind of rearranged and um set up a little bit
differently, so now we canactually do these conversations
looking at each other.
That's kind of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It is.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And we are hoping that we can do some video
recording and at least do somesnippets of what we're putting
in the podcast that we can usefor social media and other
things like that, and we'll seewhere all that goes.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, so we're currently looking, but we look
at each other when we do thepodcast anyways.
I just have to look sideways.
Yep, so now we're actuallyfacing each other.
It's going to be exciting itwill.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
It will, of course.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
No, I always like looking at you, it's not a
problem oh, me either I justthink this could be like danger
zone where we just like you know, have our conversations that
everybody thinks are amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yes, exactly Right.
It's maybe a little easier toget into things this way.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Probably, I would think so, that's right.
But yeah, we're going to, we'retoying with it, We'll see how
it works out.
Just fair warning, if should,we do the videos.
I'm not dressing up everyMonday.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
No.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I told Brad that as soon as, as soon as he was like,
yeah, this would be a fun idea.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I'm like, okay, they're all gonna get the monday
morning me I know, I totallyunderstand and I think that's
who we really are.
And, yes, we can maybe havesome videos where we, you know,
don't do it on a monday morning,but you know there are other
times some monday mornings I getup, get ready right, exactly
(02:26):
monday mornings less.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
But you know I have been bemoaning this for years.
You actually were like sad whenyou decided to shave your head
because you know you're like,okay, I'm losing too much hair.
I would love to have a shavedhead because then I could get up
every morning and lookfantastic without having to do
anything.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yes, that is an advantage.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
It is.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I just kind of brush the beard down and then that's
about it.
Brush the beard, so it's prettyeasy.
Yes, I do admit it takes me alittle while to shave it every
couple of days, but that's aboutit.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I do admit it takes me a little while to shave it
every couple of days, but that'sabout it.
I'll never forget the time thatyou were like I.
I had like the epiphany.
I was like do you cause Iusually handle buying like the
shower items and everything.
I'm like, do you need moreshampoo?
And you're like, for what?
I was like oh, I guess youdon't.
Okay, you're like I can justuse regular soap on my head now,
(03:26):
because it's not hair anymore.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So, anyways, just know you'll see the real us,
which is kind of us, anyways itis, I don't know I know, and
that's kind of what I wasthinking anyway, our podcast is
really us having conversationsanymore.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Is really us having conversations anymore?
And you know, kind of thinkingthrough a lot of the
conversations that we used toget into over dinner or
something like that, and we'd belike, oh you know, we should
have this conversation on thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
There you go, so now dinner is just us.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I know it's been interesting.
Yeah, we told everyone a coupleof weeks ago that we were kind
of jumped into empty nest reallyquickly.
So, yeah, how would you saythat's been going?
What's it been like?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
and say I don't know if we said this on air before,
but I was a little apprehensive,because I enjoy spending all of
my time with you.
Never really had a problem withthat, and you do too, but you
also.
We're both introverts, but yourintrovertedness needs just time
for you, which is totally fine.
And so I was a little worriedthat I was going to suck up that
(04:46):
time you are.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I am, it's just right on the line.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Correct.
So you need the best of bothworlds, right.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Exactly, I am still an extrovert that needs some of
that social and needs some ofthat time.
It's just yeah, there are timesthat I'm like, okay, I need a
little bit of me time and that'sone of my self-care things that
I've learned over the years,like I never thought that, as
(05:13):
you know, a younger person,Needing me time.
Yeah, that wasn't really.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, well, it plays into what we're talking about
today Story.
We talk about that a lotbecause we think it's super
important, but I yeah, part ofmy story is that I enjoy being
around the people that I trust.
It's not like I want to bearound lots of random people,
but you're one of those peopleand so.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
But I enjoy being around you as well.
I'm not worried about that sideof things.
I enjoy being around you aswell.
He says as well, I'm notworried about that side of
things.
I think the thing that you'respecifically talking about is
more my ADHD.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, you can't function with me around you tend
to like.
Verbal processing.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Right verbal process, the work that you're doing or
the things that you're seeing orthe kind of things, and I can't
get anything done while thathappens.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It's my own ADHD, but it functions differently in me.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So yeah, so yeah, that would be.
The challenge is that I needthe space in order to get work
done, that I need this space inorder to get work done, but
social time like downtime.
I'm good with hanging out.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, I think it's been fine.
I think we're figuring thingsout.
I think we were super excitedfor this time, but I think I am
realizing how much of that, forme, was met with managing lack
of better term, their schedulesright.
(06:50):
I got that interaction believeit or not, that I was
necessarily looking for it fromour kids, and so it's just
different.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Um, I think there is a huge time shift in some of
that right.
Like you, you know, and we'vesaid on the podcast before,
we've had all different types ofarrangements and work levels
and all that kind of stuff inour, in our married life.
But for the last 10 yearsyou've chosen to work more
(07:21):
part-time.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think we chose that too.
I would say it was a decisiontogether.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Correct, it was an us decision, but you were a part
of that decision for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
It wasn't like me telling you oh gosh, no, that's
not us either.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
But you've chosen to work 20-ish hours a week,
knowing that there's another30-plus hours a week that you
were doing kid stuff, home stuff, like those kind of things.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So you were definitely working very for full
time, just right, some of thatwas yeah, running kids around
and all the and connecting withthem, checking in on them the
two that we had at home at thetime, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Now that that's less, it's not gone by any means.
We still have kid time, youknow, it's just less.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's mainly on the phone too.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Our daughter, who's only like an hour and a half
away, our middle daughter forcollege.
She popped home this weekend,which was amazing and fun, but
yeah, it's just.
It's such a strange time.
Someone recently told us we'renot empty nesters because
they're in college, but it does.
And they'll come back and theywill, but it still feels that
way the majority of the time.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I don't know in this, in our generation of parents,
how you ever get to empty nestin in that reality, because the
delayed like delayed figuringout where kids go long term it's
so difficult because of housingprices and job issues, and you
know, it's just not unusual forkids mid or late 20s to need a
place to land for a little while.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Man, I can't imagine waiting till empty nest for that
hurdle to be completely done.
Who knows when that would everbe.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And that's why we're taking it now.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Because it may change again.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So one of the things that we're doing in our empty
nest, although we kind ofdecided to do this even before.
I was going to say it justhappened to work out that way,
yeah is both of us are signed upto take the next level of the
narrative therapy, trauma careum.
From dan allender the allendercenter yep, and so that is a
(09:42):
intensive, what?
Six month commitment.
I think it's longer than that,isn't it something like that?
Because we start in and so thatis a intensive, what six-month
commitment.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I think it's longer than that, isn't it?
Yeah, something like that,because we start in October and
end in March.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
March yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Oh, so yeah, maybe Six months, maybe.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So we are jumping into that course and looking
forward to it.
Both of us took the NFTC1 level.
Now what two years ago, alittle over two years ago?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
No, I think it's longer than that it's three.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
It'd be three years ago.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I was going to say because my dad passed away right
before your mom passed away aswe were ending.
Right, and I'm thinking yeah,that was three years ago, yeah
because I think yeah, I think soso thinking on air, I don't
know guys that's okay but itdoes seem, I think it's longer
than that, so yeah, what are youhoping to get out of nftc2?
(10:35):
Oh, um, I mean learning more.
I think I've, as I'veunderstood, nftc2.
There's a lot of like how yourown story influences how you
engage other people's stories,which is I get it completely
true.
So I think there's gonna be um,there's gonna be a lot of that
(10:59):
which I'm I think I need tolearn more about and be more, um
, cognizant of that.
So that's a good thing, I don'tknow, I think, just learning
more about, well, as we'rereading the book about the body
and how it all impacts, like Ithink there's going to be a
focus on that, of course.
Well, it's trauma care.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Focus trauma care, so definitely anticipate that.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah, I don't know, so definitely anticipate that.
I mean this is all a part ofthe category of work out there
that they call trauma-informedcare, right, and trying to make
sure that we know what we'redoing in our coaching and our
counseling that does respect andhonor the trauma work that
(11:43):
people need as they're goingthrough often really hard things
.
And that's some of why wedecided we wanted to talk about
story work today, and you know,probably do a little bit of
series of what is story work,what do we mean by those terms
and how do we use story to helpcouples actually grow in their
(12:07):
relationship?
Because still, while we do, nowhave people coming to us and
going oh wait, you do story work.
I want that Right Like so you dohave some of that, but I would
say the bulk of our clientsstill are going.
I'm struggling in myrelationship.
How do you help me Right and intheir marriage.
(12:29):
Yeah, and so then we're kind ofgoing okay, let's talk about
the relationship, let's talkabout you know, all of those
kinds of things, but then let'salso get into your story.
Right, right, yeah Well yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And what does?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
that even mean.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I think that's kind of our niche that make us a
little different than a lot ofother people Although there are
people out there you can get whofocus on this in marriage, but
I think it's a pretty limitednumber.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Individuals.
I think there's a lot, a lot ofpeople are doing this work in
individual.
There's only a few.
Steve and Lisa Call that we hadon the show a couple of weeks
ago is one of them.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And Dan and Becky, because they sometimes do theirs
together right, Correct themarriage retreats or whatever,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
But I don't know that many who are I mean obviously
we have Barbara Case on ourstaff and she and her husband
are doing some of that as well.
So we've kind of tried to seekout the people who are doing
story work for marriages,because I think it's really
beneficial.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And we keep seeing it in everyday arguments right,
that's something that peoplebring to our sessions all the
time right.
We sit down with people andthey go.
Oh, we just had this bigargument and want to talk about
what happened and why thisperson got upset when they came
home or whatever it was, andit's just so easy to see
(14:05):
people's story popping in.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and I think, just listening to that, the one
thing I would encourage peoplewho are listening is, if you're
a married couple, that if one ofyou is doing story work, I
would encourage the other one totake a brave step and do it as
well.
Because sometimes I do thinkthere is a place, and it's great
if we have spouses separatelythat they can just dive right
(14:28):
into their story and not beworried so much about the
dynamics between the two of them.
Yet but I know that's hardbecause usually people come to
us in a tough space.
But I think it's because ourstories are always rubbing up
against each other, bumping upagainst each other.
Whatever analogy you want touse, you have to understand
(14:50):
what's at play for both.
Yeah Right, helping one spouseunderstand what's happening for
them is great and that candrastically change things, but
it can't completely if someoneis still in their own pattern
that they don't understand.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Correct.
So before we get too far aheadof ourselves, let's maybe define
what does story work, even mean?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Okay, do you want me to define it?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Why.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Because you're good at it.
I've heard you say this and Ithink it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Oh, I'm glad.
I'm glad.
I just don't know what I'mabout to say.
So I'm glad that you thinkwhatever I'm about to say is
going to be amazing.
I think StoryWorker is ajourney into your own story,
which is your background, yourfamily, your community, your
everything that has shaped youbefore.
Adolescence kind of solidifiesour brains and how we have
(15:53):
interpreted the world.
There's lots of pieces to it,but that's how we continue your
story.
Your childhood, your teenage,hood, like that is the lens you
are doing life with.
Yeah Right, and story for meanswers the questions of why do
I do what I do, which often canbe very frustrating.
(16:14):
Why do I do that?
Why do I keep doing it?
Why can't I stop doing it?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Why can't I choose something different?
Um story work enables us todive into those things and
actually have some answers andthen have the ability to move
towards healing or freedom fromthose things.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
So, yeah, I think that's exactly right.
It is trying to explain the whyam I upset about that?
Why am I hurt by that?
Why am I getting angry rightnow?
Why am I yelling when I don'twant to?
Why am I doing X?
So it's trying to understandsome of those things.
And it's doing it in a way thatis looking at and informed on
(17:00):
are trauma.
Now I'm going to guess mostpeople like myself feel like, oh
well, I guess this doesn'tapply for me because I didn't
have any big, huge traumas whenI was growing up.
Nobody died, there was noshooting that happened.
(17:22):
There was know.
I didn't live through 9-11, youknow those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
All the things that the world would describe and
honor as trauma.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, and those are huge, significant, big traumas,
right, and every once in a whilewe get clients who have had
those experiences thinksomething horrific that happened
, that literally anyone hearingthis story would go, oh my
goodness, that's a trauma, and Ithink those are obviously
(17:55):
really big and important and wecan honor how hard that is.
The challenge, I think, is howoften other things become, or
were, a trauma for us because,we did not have the cognitive
ability or the relationshipability to process them at the
(18:18):
time.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.
And so things that were not bigT traumas where we were put in
situations where we didn't knowwhat to do, where we felt
overwhelmed and we just didn'thave the support that we needed
to get through that situationbecame stuck points.
(18:41):
Yeah.
And all of us have them.
Right.
Absolutely stuck points, yeah,and all of us have them right.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
absolutely every one of us have those moments that
really, you know, keep us, yeah,stuck well, and we've heard dan
allender say several times overour training and the book we're
just reading for nftc2.
Um, hillary mcide said I thinkthat's her name said the same
thing of like little T traumas,those things that we all
(19:10):
experience as average peoplewhere our parents were maybe not
in tune, or a teacher or afriend at school like right.
All of these things there arelittle T traumas, but they often
add up and they are harder forus to honor than the ones that
the world says are horrible.
(19:32):
Right, understandably so, butthe reality is we need to
understand how that impacted youas an individual and what were
your strategies coming out ofthat?
Or the repeated little Ttraumas.
So I think it's huge and it'salso really hard to honor it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
give it the voice that it needs and be able to,
like, move in a positive placewith that and I think it's
interesting, right, this is notnecessarily every time you are
in a hard situation.
I have like and I've searchedsome of my memory of this like I
remember being bullied as ayoung boy and being in those
(20:21):
kind of really overwhelmingsituations, and there's a couple
of fuzzy ones that I can kindof remember.
But, it's more this generalizedfeeling of not knowing what to
do and those kind of things.
And so in many ways those I'mnot saying they were good, those
were hard memories for me.
(20:43):
And they certainly laid thegroundwork for other traumas.
But for me and I really justmean this, for me those were
less the traumas than some ofthe other things that happened,
and I can tell by how my brainhas stored the memories.
I can go back to third gradeand remember, you know, some of
(21:07):
the teasing and some of thosekinds of things, but it's not
vivid.
It's there.
I know what they called me.
I know like those kinds ofthings, but it's not vivid for
me.
Yeah.
Where story work often goes intothose moments that are frozen
memories.
Right, it's the vivid pictureof something happening, it's the
(21:33):
oh my gosh.
I remember this in so muchdetail.
I have no idea why.
Kind of moment.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Although some people I hear that, but remember it's
still, although some people.
I hear that, but remember it'sstill remember it vividly, but
it's just snapshots.
Yeah right, it's not like Iremember, start to finish all
the way, because that's whatpeople somehow think they should
.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah, I find, and that's just not how our memory
works we wouldn't be able tosurvive, remembered everything
no, no, no from the moment itstarted to the moment it ended
no, the I've heard it explainedthat, like when we get into that
fight or flight mode, that oneof the things that happens to us
is our mind, our brain, isaccessing more information.
(22:18):
So it acts like a slow-mo videobecause, if you want to do a
slow-mo video.
you actually increase the framerate right, like you make it go
faster.
So then when you play it backat normal speed, it is slow-mo.
That's kind of what's happeningin our brain in a trauma it's
taking in more information.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
So then afterwards, we don't know what to do with
all of that information.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Our brain doesn't know what to do with that
information, and so thenafterwards, we don't know what
to do with all of thatinformation.
Our brain doesn't know what todo with that information, and so
it often gets stuck.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right, and it often as a young child, teenager tries
to figure out okay.
So this is a situation I'm inregularly which can absolutely
happen with bullying or at home,and your little mind and your
little body says okay, if I dothis, that helps me right, right
(23:11):
, and it could be somethingright a strategy.
It could be something that helpsyou to be seen with your family
, helps you to not cause tension.
Like strategies are just thingsyou come up with to survive the
best you can in your familysituation, and sometimes it's
(23:31):
also coping strategies.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Right, that's what happens and that's why it's
frozen and we're kind of stuck,like when we talked a lot or
didn't talk at all or wentaround and made sure we had all
our homework done or, you know,did all kinds of things in order
to gain attention.
We worked really hard to be thebest on the soccer field.
(23:57):
We worked, you know, in so manydifferent avenues.
We worked to fix things that wedidn't know what we were doing
or, as dan allender says, torestore peace to our lives.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
The problem is they're broken like they're not
real restoration right it'stemporary.
Oftentimes it ends up hurtingus or someone else.
Words, you know, like anger,but those are not the only ones,
right, so yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And you know we were talking about introvert
extrovert earlier, like the, andthis is just one of those
interesting things.
I am an extrovert.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
I I know I'm an extrovert, but as I've grown, I
said we were both introverts,though I know you did.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
But I'm an extrovert.
But as I've grown older I'verecognized and gotten closer to
my introverted side, likethere's places of self-care in
being alone and I've learned togrow in that.
But as we're talking abouttrauma stuff, I grew up in a
(25:05):
family of four that three ofthem were pretty far on the
introverted scale and here I am,the extrovert kind of like,
bouncing around a little bit andwanting to be social and
wanting to do things, wanting tobe social and wanting to do
(25:27):
things and like that wasn't whatwas normal in my household, and
so like I think I learned thestrategy of spending a lot of
time by myself, which is why ittook me so long to come back to
that being healthy.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Hmm, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Because for a long time it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So you would mainly consider yourself an extrovert.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, oh, I mean, if I look at the true definition of
introvert and extrovert.
Introvert is that I gain energyby being by myself and I spend
energy when I'm social Right.
Extrovert is the reverse I'mgaining energy when I'm with
other people and I'm spendingthat energy when I'm by myself.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
So it's not even what I like or dislike.
It's where you get energized.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
And I absolutely get energized from being with my
clients, being with people,being in groups, being like I
had my.
I'm doing a new group thisseason and had a first meeting
with them and I had a bunch ofguys and it's two hours eight to
(26:39):
10 on my time zone, cause somepeople aren't in the same time
zone, so it ends at 10 o'clockat night and I'm buzzing, you
know like, just because thatfilled my battery and in a
really good way.
I had lots of energy, but it'sthen.
It's like okay, I got to go tobed soon.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So that's what I mean by the extrovert side of me I
was going to say because I feellike in the last bunch of years
you've more leaned and saidyou're leaning towards introvert
.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
There are definitely places where I am, and I think
some of that is my self-care.
I know there's times I need toquiet myself and I need to learn
how to be with myself again ina healthy way.
You're fun to be with.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I appreciate that you are, um, yeah, I get that.
Okay, so brad's an extrovertguys, but you ride the line.
Oh, I do, I absolutely.
I feel like you have one footon each side as I've grown older
I'm I'm definitely more in that.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
That other camp of like okay, I got a little too
much people Now I need some justme time, like that does happen,
which takes you only like 5.3minutes.
Depends which people.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, and that's what I would say If I'm with people
the very few, select few thatare kind of in my inner circle
not because I'm exclusive, butbecause it's hard to bare your
soul to tons of people and Iwant my inner circle to be ones
that know me, can challenge me,call me out, but also love me in
the hardest moments, so withthem I never feel like I can't
(28:18):
just spend time with them.
But spending time with themdoesn't drain me like spending
time with large groups of peoplewhom I don't know, or I'm
having to make small talk andyou know that kind of thing.
So I'm definitely moreintroverted, but it took me a
long time to understand thatbecause, yes, for me escaping
(28:40):
from my family was also a copingstrategy.
Right, and teenage years Ithink that's also kind of a
somewhat normal stage you gothrough.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So.
So how do we do this work whilerespecting, like we're not
trying to turn people againsttheir family?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Well, and I think sometimes, yes, we're not trying
to.
I say all the time reiterate tomy clients I'm not judging your
family, I am not decidingthings about them.
Most parents, they are doingthe best they can and they
(29:26):
aren't right Like it is what'savailable to them emotionally,
physically, but it's oftentimesmissing the mark with their
kiddos.
And I can stand on the one sideand be the person in my family
we're talking about.
I can also stand on the otherside and be the mom who knows
I've done this to my kids attimes.
(29:47):
So it really is just trying tofind that balance of honor and
honesty.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
I think we need to, and should, figure out what it
means to honor a parent in howthey attempted to love us, even
in places where that love seemsoff right.
Like there are times we can lookhard and try and understand
(30:18):
what that means.
So you know, but for many of usit's okay.
My parents tried their best orI can see you know their parent
was this.
So look at what my parent didright, and we can honor the
growth in them, we can honortheir attempts at connection,
but we can also honor our ownstruggle and our own pain and go
(30:43):
yeah, but there were times Iwas still hurting and that
wasn't necessarily their faultLike we're not looking at trying
to place blame with our stories.
We're going okay.
You know what I saw this thing,you know that happened.
I saw this differentrelationship that you had with
(31:06):
my sibling, or I saw thisdifferent way that you you know
treated me, or something likethat In that work.
We can be hurt by that and wecan acknowledge that and try to
you know and try to understandand be honoring what that means
for us.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, I think the challenge comes in where we push
into families most of the time,because I don't feel like I've
ever done any stories wheretheir family doesn't come in
somewhere.
I think, in order to behonoring, we have to actually be
honest, right, right, order tobe honoring, we have to actually
be honest, right, because ifwe're not honest about how it
(31:45):
impacted us emotionally, in ourbody, spiritually, all those
things, then we will always comedown on the side of
self-contempt for ourselves.
Why did I do that?
That was dumb, all of that kindof stuff.
And yet yet, as a child, yourbrain isn't developed enough to
(32:06):
figure it out.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
That's why your parents are there to help you
navigate and figure it out, andso I think it's interesting, I
mean, you said it really well wetrade contempt for somebody who
hurt us or missed somethingwith for self-contempt, right,
because they were our parentsand they were for self-contempt.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Right, because they were our parents and they were
doing the best they could.
Right, and maybe we've evenbeen told that, but it you know,
dan Allender says we have to bebrave and name the harm, the
harm and who caused the harm.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Right, because people are complex, no one's all good,
no one's all good, no one's allbad, and if we don't understand
the complexities and are ableto name them, then we just
continue to beat ourselves up,do things that are not helpful,
do things that are painful andhurtful.
Right, and so it really is ajourney to figuring that out for
(33:00):
yourself, so that you can honoryour family better.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, and that's the goal.
Right Is not to, oh, make youacknowledge all the places that
your parents screwed up so thatthen you separate from them.
Like you know, I think that'sthe fear out there, but and it's
not even necessarily so you cango back to your parents and get
them to acknowledge all theplaces where they messed up.
(33:27):
Really, the goal of story workand trauma care is to go wow,
why is it that I'm stillcarrying this self-contempt?
Like you said, or why am Istill carrying these various
wounds?
that then impact my otherrelationships.
That then, impact other placeswhere I'm interacting with
(33:50):
people in a certain way and theystart showing up.
Yeah.
That's the challenge is, how dowe see this reflected into our
future, because these storiesdon't stay in the past right.
They don't just happened backthere and now I haven't thought
(34:10):
about it for 100 years and it'sjust there.
It really is something that isimpacting us as we go through
our lives, as we go through howwe interact with people, and
certainly this is where Kate andI keep coming back to.
Certainly it interacts with ourmarriage all the time.
(34:34):
The whole dynamic that we weretalking about of me learning how
to spend time by myself andenjoying time by myself is
something that I have worked onas I've tried to understand my
story and understand myself.
(34:54):
Totally honest, like when we gotmarried, I didn't like spending
time by myself.
Time by myself was bad.
And so I would avoid it at allcosts, and I think that was part
of my story playing out right.
I didn't really like being withme.
And so then I would try andavoid that and fill that with
(35:18):
anything possible and so oftengot filled with TV or often got
filled with distractions orother things.
Where, as I've grown and triedto get a little healthier, there
is a place of me learning howto actually like being with
myself and liking what I likeand being for me, it almost
(35:41):
always is being outdoors.
Right, this weekend you andLily were hanging out a little
bit and so I had reading to doso for our course, so I was like
you know what?
I'm going to go sit outdoors.
It's lovely.
I'm going to go sit outside andread for a little while and
just kind of enjoying being inthe outdoors by myself is
something I've recognized I needand is a healthy thing for me.
(36:05):
I think that is me trying tounderstand my story.
I think at the same time thatcan bump into your story of
feeling like I'm pulling away insome ways that that can
activate your story.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, and it's interesting because I, like I'm
sitting here trying to think doI enjoy time by myself?
I do.
I think as a mom, I've falleninto or drove straight into I
don't know like time.
You know, up until this year,time by myself was.
Cleaning and doing house chores,and it was a commodity and if
(36:45):
there's, any kids in the house,like you cannot guarantee it and
um, which I love, having mykids in the house, so it's not
that at all.
Um, so I think, uh, time alonefor me is okay.
I tend to be more comfortablewith it when no one is here, if
that makes sense, cause I thinkI feel that pull of, like, my
(37:09):
responsibilities in the home,what I want to cultivate in our
home, those kinds of things.
Um, and with you I will say,like I've been trying to think
about it more.
I just enjoy your company, likeI enjoy sitting next to you,
which I know you would allow meto do when you're outside.
It's hard for me not to talk toyou, so like and I'm trying to
(37:31):
think where that would be in mystory, probably because I don't
I generally don't feel likepeople in my family understood
me or wanted to know, but I canbe a bit of a verbal processor
too.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
So anyways.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
But I think, if I can put it out there, I think you
worry that my wanting to be bymyself is because something with
you.
Hmm, Something with me like youdon't want to be around me.
Right, something with me, likeyou don't want to be around me,
right, like something?
Right, or you're being too much, or you're being, you know, too
(38:07):
needy, or something, so now I'mpulling away in order to do
that, which is not that at allyeah, no, I don't, I don't know
that.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I think that so much.
I think, because of our story,sometimes space feels vulnerable
to me, or like, yeah, eventhough you've been walking your
freedom journey and I don'treally worry about that a ton,
but I think it probably doesinfluence that.
Um, so, yeah, I I'm trying tothink where my story would come
(38:39):
in, where it as far as likewanting to be alone or not.
I spent a lot of time alone asa teenager, but you're not wrong
, I filled it with music, right,like I would just listen to
music all the time.
So I mean, that's the reality.
Our stories are bumping,whether we realize it or not.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
And that's that's kind of my point.
Is this thing that I may betrying to do for health can send
off ripples that could bebumping into your story?
Yeah which then you come backand be like oh, why are you
going away, right, like.
And then I'm like well, wait aminute, like you're right, like,
(39:18):
this is how you make me soundso pathetic.
I'm not even saying that'ssomething.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Why are you going?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
away.
I'm not saying that's somethingyou would say, I'm just giving
you an example of how storiesbump into each other right, and
you know it's this, thenfrustrating thing.
That's like wait.
Why are you upset by this?
This is not, you know, know,that kind of dynamic that
happens that definitely happenedin the beginning of our
(39:45):
marriage.
Sure, I think, for sure, um, Idon't I think it even happened
in the beginning of my trying tofigure out what alone time was,
because and and this is stillsomewhat true in the time, wise,
not not the emotions is, atthat time I was working full
(40:08):
time, you were homeschooling anddealing with little kids full
time, and so any alone time Ihad was taking away time with
you or the family.
Right Cause, right so it, oryour assistance or the family
right Cause, right so it, oryour assistance with the family.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
that's probably more correct.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Right Like so it was a cost.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
You're like claiming this was years ago.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
When, when that was happening,I think there was a place that
you're like well, wait a minute,why don't you want to spend
time with us and like me tryingto go, okay, like you know
trying to figure out whathealthy looked like in this and
how to keep growing, and youknow those kinds of things was a
hard journey.
(40:52):
I think I think we workedthrough it because it is a cost,
right, like if we're justtalking alone time, that is a
cost for a couple.
And.
I think it's something that wetried to work through, and
there's been times that I'vetaken personal retreats and
things like that, but I've beenreally, I think been really
(41:14):
intentional of coming home andgoing.
Okay, here's the benefit ofthat right.
Like not just okay, now I'mexhausted, Although that does
happen sometimes because I tendto hike too much when I'm on a
personal retreat and then, Icome home and I'm like, oh, I'm
sore, but anyway like trying tobe here and be present.
(41:39):
I don't know.
I think, that's just an exampleof how sometimes stories run
into each other.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Well, and we, yes, and I think one of the ones like
that is a dynamic you can thinkabout in your marriage.
There are so many others likefiguring out when one of us is
sick, like how that dynamicimpacts.
That's probably the one I feellike people grasp really well
when we share it, but like thereare lots of different things
(42:06):
that our story is playingeverything.
Really Sometimes it justdoesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You don't notice.
I mean, being sick is such aninteresting dynamic, right?
Because you can probably thinkthrough what was what happened
to you when you were sick as akid and that feels very normal
yeah although it's probablydifferent for you and your
spouse of what happenedabsolutely right in my household
(42:34):
.
I was pretty much sent to myroom if I was sick sounds like
fun and sometimes I would beallowed like to come down and
watch tv or something like siton the sofa for a little bit,
like that kind of thing, but itwas pretty much alone and it's
crazy.
I can't even imagine that Imean I can actually and like,
(43:02):
and this is just you know how myparents did life, but like if
one of my parents was sick, theywould then sleep in separate
bedrooms so not to get otherpeople sick.
Like this was household, notjust me.
It was like if the house was,you were kind of supposed to
isolate yourself so that youdon't get other people sick.
(43:22):
That was the rules, and so thatmeant kind of being by myself a
lot.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Which actually does mirror or does look a little bit
like what happened to you.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
It does.
But I think, yeah, I feel likemine's complicated and
convoluted.
But I was left alone, but notbecause I suffered from
migraines.
I still do Like that kind ofthing.
I was usually left alone,preferred to be alone.
Well, I don't know what camefirst, if I'm honest, but having
(44:01):
a migraine and a bunch ofpeople around you making noise
and whatever.
I would often go to my roomwith those.
But then I think when I'mtalking about other sickness
besides that, we were the familythat you got to lay on the sofa
right, you got to be ineverybody else's space.
I don't remember my parentstalking too much about like,
(44:23):
don't spread it.
I think probably my own viewson that is reflective of like.
When our kids have been sick,I've been like it's inevitable.
We all live in each other'sspaces.
Of course, I don't need one kidgoing over and licking the
other kid's snotty hand, needone kid going over and licking
(44:44):
the other kid's snotty hand,like I mean, we're not doing
stuff like that, but and we'vevery much done that with our
kiddos when they're sick, likethey get to sleep on the sofa.
Yeah, Um so, but yes, mine whenI was sick, otherwise I was
invited into a space of myfamily.
But I think I learned veryquickly, with my mom
(45:05):
specifically, and whatnot, itwas just better not to be sick.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Not to be sick and to keep going.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Right.
So most of my history withbeing sick is what I do I just
keep going.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
You know, and I'm dealing with something right now
and it's health-wise, and it'shard for me to slow down and
just be like okay right.
Right, so you can see how thosedynamics me not slowing down
you going to the room andisolating.
In the beginning it was like ohmy word.
(45:39):
First of all, do you not likeme anymore?
Second of all, dude you meanymore.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Second of all, dude, you can still do things when
you're sick well, and there weretimes that I, you like, I'd
isolate all day in the bedroomand then you'd come in to go to
bed and I'm like, okay, I guessI'll go sleep on the sofa then.
Right, like with this idea of Ineed to isolate myself from you
, so I don't get sick, I know,but that was what was normal for
(46:06):
me right.
Is I'm supposed to handle thisby myself.
And so I fight that instinct tojust, when I'm sick, just
retreat and you can see how thattrigger that feels normal ends
up doing things for you.
And then I end up minimizingyour sick of like when you're
(46:32):
like oh no, I'm fine, I'll justkeep going.
I'm like okay, I guess she'snot that sick, right because I
don't, I don't recognize it.
I don't recognize it, I don'tsee it.
So I'm like okay, like you know,kind of thing, and it's only
much later that I've been likewhoa, you need to stop, you need
to let your body be sick, right, like you know, that kind of
(46:53):
thing that.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Yeah, I'm not so good with that.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
I know.
Anyway.
So I'm working on it, but yeah.
This is all stuff that we'vedone and understood about each
other, like I now know that when.
Kate's sick.
There is this message that saysshe has to keep going.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Right.
And so then there's a place ofcare that I can start to say hey
, wait a minute, I see you.
You don't have to do that,right, right.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Yeah, and I think that's what we right.
That's where our stories,understanding that for both of
us is so helpful, because Bradis able to enter in and say, hey
, maybe you should cancel thatfor today.
Like, yes, of course we can'talways cancel everything, that's
just not life, but you've beenable to enter into that and then
I've been able to enter intoand hold for you Okay, you don't
feel good, you need time toyourself, right, and not taking
(47:53):
that as personal.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
And you not taking personally that I won't let you
help me.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Right, and it's not anymore.
I'm just so used to doing it onmy own.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
We both went on our own, but for different reasons.
That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Right, like you can have a similar response.
Look very different between twopeople and this really is the
heart of story work isunderstanding yourself better
and understanding your spousebetter and as you do that, all
of a sudden some of thearguments that you used to have
go.
Oh okay, so you're not doingthat because you're mad at me?
(48:34):
You're not doing that becauseyou're something else.
You're acting out of thisstrategy that you've developed.
You've acted right in thatplace.
So, we're going to be spendingthe next couple probably a
couple of weeks exploring moreabout some of the story work and
talking through how we do thatas a couple, what it looks like,
what we're learning as wejourney in some of this, so I
(48:57):
hope that you'll join us on that.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
And we'll be a part of us learning even more as
we're going through anotherlevel.
Of course, and keep learningfor each other.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
I would encourage people like if you're listening
to this, have the conversationof what do I do when I'm sick?
What do you observe I do whenI'm sick?
Yeah, when does that come from?
Yeah, right, like that's a diveinto story, right there.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Because every from Right Like that's a dive into
story right there of like,because every husband and wife
dynamic you've had to have itlike everybody gets sick at some
point.
So yeah, just kind of I'd becurious for those couples to
just enter into thatconversation.
That's really good.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
All right.
Well, this is great.
This is a lot of fun, and we'regoing to keep talking about
stories and about marriage andhow we can keep growing towards
each other as we are journeyingtowards still becoming one.
Until next time, I'm BradAldrich.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Still Becoming One is a production of aldrich
ministries.
For more information about bradand kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrich ministriescom forpodcast show notes and links to
resources and all of our socialmedia.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(50:24):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts,
and be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
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