November 29, 2023 • 41 mins
If you could gift someone a life-changing learning experience, what would it be and why? We discuss the combined wisdom of 27 of my podcast guests and what it means for how we approach the practice of education.
Where, when, and how do moments of truly life-changing learning actually happen?
What do they look like?
When have you had a learning experience that actually changed your life?
If you think back through all the classes you’ve taken, the certificates you’ve earned, the books you’ve read, the films you’ve seen, the things you’ve tried, the places you’ve been, the people you’ve looked up to… what stands out most to you as a truly life-changing learning experience?
On my podcast, Still Curious, I talk to people who have somehow managed to keep their curiosity intact well into adulthood, despite the best efforts of the world around them. One question I ask everyone who comes on the show is: "if you could gift someone a life-changing learning experience, what would it be and why?"
I’ve been doing this for a little while now, and it’s always my favourite part of the show because I never have any idea what to expect, and the things that each person comes out with are often surprising, moving and profound.
When you put them all together, the overall effect is even more striking, and revealing.
So today I’d like to share the combined wisdom of 27 of my podcast guests with you, and reflect on what it all means.
Full Show Notes
Visit the Grokkist podcast hub for a full digest of this episode including transcript, links and resources: https://grokk.ist/stillcuriouspodcast/s3e9-27-gifts-of-life-changing-learning
Recorded 27 November 2023
Website: grokk.ist/stillcuriouspodcast | Email: podcast@grokk.ist | Socials: @grokkist
Music: Kleptotonic Swing by Tri-Tachyon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
when we hear the word educationfor most of us that go to
(00:03):
association is with teachers,lectures, classrooms, courses,
institutions, and credentials,all of the apparatus of school.
If you're familiar at all withmy work, you'll know that I'm a
big fan of this quote from markTwain.
Never let school interfere withyour education.
(00:24):
If you're the kind of person wholoves learning, but doesn't love
school.
This will touch you in thefeelings right away.
But what does it mean?
How does school interfere witheducation?
Well, we made a whole videoabout that and about reclaiming
the old school idea of school.
He is a little snippet.
Education is the basis ofsociety's design.
(00:46):
The system that instills what'sin everybody's mind.
And under this system, thesociety we...
Defines economically, unequally,ecologically arise.
So redefine school, not a toolof the state, but a movement
that arises from those whocreate, whose mode of exchange
isn't monetary wealth, butrelationship and wisdom as an
end in itself.
No more tests, no more rules, nomore half truths back to the
(01:08):
roots.
Back to old school schools.
To put it simply it's aboutrecognizing that the practice of
learning is something distinctfrom the institutions of
learning.
Institutions can help.
They're supposed to help, but aswith so many things in life,
what often ends up happening isthat the very institutions that
(01:30):
exist to uphold an importantpublic.
Good.
Can become estranged from theliving nature of the good they
are supposed to uphold to thepoint that they can end up
becoming an obstacle or even athreat to those who are
interested in the practiceitself rather than the
institution.
Or as we put it in the video,Are you really surprised?
(01:51):
Humans have a tendency tosystematize and the systems
have.
Fine until the systems blind tothe very human beings for whom
the system desired One of themost pernicious ways that I find
school and the institutions oflearning interfere with
education and the practice oflearning.
Is to hijack pretty much allconversations about education
(02:12):
and make them about theeducation system.
Which subtly reinforces the ideathat the education system
somehow has a monopoly onlearning.
But what if the actual learningthat most changes people's lives
is happening somewhere elseentirely.
As a high school dropout whosince spent time getting a bunch
(02:33):
of university greys that mostdefinitely interfered with by
education.
This is a question that hasinterested me for the longest
time.
You're listening to the StillCurious Podcast with me, Danu
Poyner.
Where, when and how to momentsof truly life-changing learning
(02:55):
actually happen.
What do they look like?
When have you had a learningexperience that actually changed
your life?
If you think back through allthe classes you've taken, the
certificates, you've earned thebooks.
You've read the films you'veseen.
The things you've tried, theplaces you've been, the people
you've looked up to.
What stands out most to you as atruly life-changing learning
(03:19):
experience.
On my podcast, Still Curious.
I talk to people who havesomehow managed to keep their
curiosity intact well intoadulthood.
Despite the best efforts of theworld around them.
And one question I ask everyonewho comes on the show is.
If you could gift someone, alife-changing learning
(03:40):
experience, what would it be andwhy?
I've been doing this for alittle while now.
And it's always my favorite partof the show because I never have
any idea what to expect and thethings that each person comes
out with, uh, often surprisingmoving and profound.
When you put them all together,the overall effect is even more
(04:00):
striking and revealing.
So today I'd like to share thecombined wisdom of 27 of my
podcast, guests with you andreflect on what it all means.
For me, the responses to what'sa life changing learning
experience, you would givesomeone.
For broadly into three buckets.
So we'll take them one at a timeand I'll offer some thoughts on
(04:22):
the answers as a whole.
We'll get into it right afterthe music on this special solo
episode of the Still CuriousPodcast.
(04:58):
The first bucket is all aboutlife-changing learning
experiences.
That broaden our perspective,starting with the gift of
empathy.
Kat Daley (05:08):
The biggest thing I wish anybody could have in
learning anything is just theability to empathize, to truly
understand that there's thingsyou don't understand about who
people are, and what makes theirdecisions, and what drives them.
And that sometimes you canimagine being in their shoes,
but sometimes you can't, andjust to acknowledge that you
can't understand it and respectthat whatever decisions they
(05:28):
make or are forced to make mightnot be an indictment on them
being mad or bad or sad orwhatever.
Empathy is about expanding ourinner imaginative space to
include the perspectives andexperiences of others.
I like cat's point about therebeing limits to what you are.
I might be able to imagine basedon our experience and
(05:49):
perspective, And that sometimeswe simply can't imagine what
it's like to be in this otherperson's situation.
Extending out empathy, even insituations where we can't
understand.
It's an act of grace andhumility.
Through which we acknowledge theexistence of worlds beyond the
borders of our own imagination.
And exploring imaginative worldsbeyond our own experience is a
(06:11):
life-changing learningexperience that can come through
the gift of fiction.
Amanda Young (06:16):
It would be for every person to be able to find
a book or a TV show or a moviethat cracks them open and makes
them think about the worlddifferently and sits with them
long after they've finished it.
That's a big reader myself.
This one spoke to me thatfeeling of being cracked open.
You'll never be the same again,but it's like a Japanese kid
(06:37):
Suki bowl where you end up morebeautifully broken than when you
started.
And if we expand our imaginativespace far enough, We may
eventually come to see that.
What at first looks like anoverwhelming array of
differences can turn out to beexpressions of a deeper unity.
Diego Boada (06:57):
I would want to give people the ability to see
the world from a differentperspective from the other.
We just know what we know, andwe don't know what we don't
know.
Working with people acrosscountries I realized that we're
not that different.
We are human beings and sothere's something about that.
It doesn't matter what languageyou speak, what you do, what you
know, just the power of seeingthe world through someone else's
eyes.
(07:17):
it really helps you see theworld in a different
perspective.
With all that in mind.
It will probably come as nosurprise.
That one answer, which comes upa lot is spending time in
another country.
Ann Collins (07:31):
I would gift someone a time to live abroad
and to experience anotherculture.
It's coaching every day, becauseyou're having to adapt and think
and reflect.
You learn so much about anotherplace obviously, and other
people, but you learn so muchabout yourself too.
And you also learn so much aboutwhere you've come from.
You see things with a differenteye.
(07:52):
You're able to communicate in adifferent way and really have a
lot of gratitude for what youhave and for the people around
you.
I think you appreciate whatother people do for you.
For me, every time I've livedoverseas, and I do make a
distinction between going onholiday and actually living,
it's a gift that I would love togive to other people.
(08:15):
Well, the kind of person wholeads with curiosity, travel
offers, not just new experiencesand fresh input.
But also a mirror.
Maria Fernanda Puertas (08:24):
I would say, from a very personal and
current experience, I would sayliving abroad.
I have been very privilegedthroughout my life in Argentina
of being well-educated andhaving the chance to work, to
meet people, to research.
But what you learn when you faceto a completely different
culture, a completely differentroutine, and in group of people
(08:48):
and ways of saying and doingthings, it's a metacognitive
process because you get toreflect upon your own beliefs,
your own practices.
I guess I've been living herefor over a year and I'm still
processing all of that.
I'm still processing what I usedto do and I used to think, I
used to believe.
(09:10):
Again, this is something thatyou're asking me today and today
I can certainly say that (09:13):
having the possibility to live in a
different country.
All the times the life-changinglearning of travel is about the
richness of experience.
There are some understandings wecan only access and process
outside the rationalconsciousness of our usual
routine.
Like when we're in a dreamstate.
(09:33):
In the right spirit travel canbe like stepping into a living
dream that changes you when youwake up.
Myles Tankle (09:40):
go to India, Go to India, get on a plane.
Uh, I've been fortunate enoughto travel some parts of the
world and I've lived in a fewdifferent countries, but going
to India with my now partnerwho, at that point, was just a
friend on a holiday was one ofthe strongest life-changing
experiences.
More than anything else, thebeautiful thing about that
(10:00):
country is that it is all thingsall at once.
There are the most wonderfulmoments of joy and happiness and
color and fluidity ofexperience, which live literally
right next to and on top of thedeepest, darkest parts of the
human experience.
You can either stand at the topof a mountain or be in the
gutter all on the same moment.
(10:20):
I think culturally, it's so vastand so different and so diverse
and there's so much historythere.
Ah, it's just the mostincredible place.
And then other times Still, itmight not be even about where
you go and what you do so muchas the act of leaving itself.
Grace Liaw (10:39):
I know it's not possible with everyone's
resources, but going to adifferent country is guaranteed
to transform anybody.
It's not so much about thecountry.
It's about leaving home, reallyleaving home.
Not next door to the town nextto you, but to put yourself in a
completely foreign environmentfor an extended period of time.
(11:00):
That one will stretch you inways that you couldn't possibly
experience in a familiar settingand transform you and show you
what you're capable of, thatyou, you can do much more than
you would think you could do.
It will show you yourlimitations too.
Humbling and empowering togethernaturally will transform a
(11:24):
person and
As well as the feeling of beingstretched, tested, and reformed.
There's also a sensual freedomthat comes from temporarily
stepping outside yourself andthe everyday burdens of
attachments and identities thatwe all lug around with us.
From the sort of limbo spacethat travel offers, we have free
(11:44):
to examine the many parts of ourlives that we live
unreflectively.
And when we stepped back intoour usual lives, we can
consciously choose whichattachments and identities we
want to bring back with us andexperience the power of that.
Choosing.
Christopher Schoenwald (12:01):
I really like this question.
I think it would be a life livedabroad, at least for a year and
a minimum a year's time.
It just forces you to step outof your own world, your own
worldviews, the way that youinterpret the world.
It just challenges your ownideas of what's right, what's
wrong, you know?
And I think a lot of people havebeen quoted as saying, a lot of
(12:23):
the world troubles that we haveright now would be solved if we
just had like these programs setup where like everyone had to.
I mean, that's completelyunrealistic, but I mean, if in a
perfect world where everyonecould experience another culture
at least once within their life,not just like buy the internet
or even a conversation on theinternet, but literally stepping
into a different world, youknow, breathing in the air of a
(12:44):
different region of the worldand, all of that, what that
represents, I think it'd be alot easier for people to find a
common ground.
Speaking of my own experiencesas of living abroad and now, my
ability to look at my ownculture and elements that I like
and elements that I don't like,and, and, and challenging some
of those thoughts, some of thoseideas and finding bits and
(13:04):
pieces of another culture that Ifind really appealing and great,
and some things that I don't,but at least having these ideas
that the world is so unique.
It is so distinct that justslipping into one mindset or one
worldview, it's, it's adangerous thing, you know?
And if you can give thatopportunity to somebody to
understand that there's so muchmore out there that that's
(13:24):
powerful and
So the embodied nature of travelmakes it pretty much a sure fire
way for anyone leading withcuriosity to broaden their
perspective.
Whether as a living dream, atest, a mirror, or a sum of all
of the above, that's greaterthan its parts.
But what about other lifechanging pathways to empathy and
(13:45):
expanding one's perspective?
When I was little, I used toimagine an empathy helmet that
you could wear to instantlyaccess the full sensory
experience of someone else'sperspective.
Uh, way to main line empathy, Iguess.
I was reminded of that whenlistening to Lara's
life-changing learning gift.
Lara Clarke (14:05):
I think it would be a gift to everyone, or to the
people that don't experiencethis already themselves, as the
opportunity to find yourself ina situation where you truly are
in somebody else's shoes.
So really properly having aninsight into a different
perspective, a differentviewpoint.
(14:27):
Properly engaging in that,because I think we talk at each
other a lot and we listen toopinions, but we don't really
absorb them.
But to really understand, towalk a mile, or a kilometer, in
another person's shoes andreally truly understand all of
the challenges, the barriers,the issues that they face.
If it's a gift to everyone, itmight be the person that's most
(14:49):
opposite to them.
Like, having that opportunity toexperience that other worldview,
I think would just be reallyeye-opening for a lot of people.
And what, if we could expand ourempathy and broaden our
perspective even further intothe non-human world.
Amanda Nicole (15:08):
I would invite them to listen with me.
I would invite them to allow theplants to be their teachers.
That's what I've done and it haschanged my life.
Every aspect of it, even the wayI express myself.
My teacher, Matthew Wood, he didwrite a book, Seven Herbs, and
(15:30):
the subtitle is Plants asTeachers.
And that's what I'veexperienced.
So if anybody could have aneducational experience, it would
be to have a plant as a teacher.
To sit with it and be able tocommune with it and receive it
and hear it in a way where it isteaching you something about
(15:55):
yourself or your way of being,or the world or itself.
It takes us outside of what weknow, which is a good place to
be.
How far can we go with thelife-changing learning of
broadening our perspective.
Well, I'll give the last word onthis bucket to Bob and estate
planner whose life-changinglearning gift is one of the most
(16:18):
profound you'll hear.
Robert Kabacy (16:20):
I would want somebody to have a near death
experience and the reason Iwould want them to have that and
come out of it, cause I don'twant them to die, but I'd want
them to come out of it becausethe people who I've met who have
had near death experiences seethe world in a very unique,
enlightened way that the rest ofus who don't understand what
(16:42):
death really is feel.
They just enjoy every moment alittle bit more.
They appreciate things a littlebit more.
And the minutia of the daybothers them a little bit less.
If you are diagnosed with cancerand you realize that you may not
make it, and then you do makeit, you become a little bit
(17:05):
different person.
You have an experience thatsays, wow, I dodged a bullet on
that one.
If I could somehow magicallyimplant that feeling of seeing
the world a little bit betterwithout the near death
experience, that's what I'd wantto do.
Wow.
Reflecting on all we've heard sofar, we can already see that
(17:26):
when it comes to the learningexperiences that people think of
as truly life changing.
We are a long way from theclassroom and the world of
institutionalized education.
And that's just our firstbucket.
We've heard gifts of lifechanging, learning that are all
about broadening ourperspective.
Let's have a little music to letthat breathe and sink in.
(17:48):
And when we come back, we'llhear stories from our second
bucket.
Which contains life changing,learning experiences that are
all about mindset.
Belief and finding our authenticself.
(18:42):
Now second bucket oflife-changing learning
experiences is all aboutmindset.
Belief and finding our authenticself.
And you found first bucket wasall about a broadening of
perspective.
The first example from oursecond bucket is all about
keeping things in perspective.
Eleanor Colla (19:01):
I think the fact that librarians, The work we do
is very important, but alsoknowing that No one's going to
die.
I think that, for me, it wasvery useful to know, being able
to step out and have thatperspective.
For others, a life-changing giftcan be learning, not to worry
what people think of you.
Travis Yuan (19:19):
Would encourage people to let go of things, to
worry about the past orassumptions about others.
When I grew up theirexpectations pressure from the
family members, society, thewhole environment, but that's
not actually their problem.
I live my own life.
So why do they put my behavioror whatever to themselves.
(19:45):
They don't need to worry aboutit.
You just need to let it go.
Changes in mindset can be sopowerful that after we've
experienced them, we see otherswho might be stuck and which we
could gift them the sametransformational insight we had
or whatever version of it wouldunlock something equivalent in
them.
Seth Fleischauer (20:05):
There's uh, There's a member of my family
that hasn't adopted the samegrowth mindset that I have.
I see the potential of themhaving that and feel that it
would be such an amazingexperience that ultimately
they're, I think, afraid tohave.
I'm not sure what the experienceis.
(20:26):
I've done some out there stuffwith body work and Reiki and
some of these spiritual things.
What would work for any givenperson to shift a mindset like
that I think is a very personalthing.
I don't think I have a way ofpredicting what that would be
for this person but the endresult is what I would give
them.
And I wish I knew how to getthem there.
(20:47):
But others are life-changinggift may not be a particular
mindset, but rather learning tohave deep self knowledge, to
really understand our ownmotivations and the beliefs that
drive our actions.
Lawrence Yeo (21:01):
I saw this question on your list of
questions, and I was like, huh.
Such a hard question, but whichmakes it good.
I think the best way to learnabout yourself is moments, and
let's say we completely condenseinto a learning experience where
it's over one week.
You just write out all yourthoughts, We can start with your
beliefs, your beliefs aboutyourself, your beliefs about
(21:25):
your relationship to work,relationship to money, your
relationship to your family,everything.
And then underneath each one,ask, why?
Why do you have this belief?
Why do you think this?
Why do you think that?
When people journal, most peopletalk about the what's of life.
Like, what did I do today?
(21:46):
What did I experience, what didI accomplish?
But the far more powerful thingto this journal about is the
why.
why did you accomplish that?
Why did you want to accomplishthat?
journaling about the whys willreveal more about yourself than
any what ever can.
if people did this regularly,there would be just enormous
(22:06):
change in the world.
If people understood theirmotivations and understood their
intentions, and took a closerlook at why they believe the
things they believe, knowingthat so much of it has been
instilled by conditioning andnorms.
I don't know.
I don't know what the worldwould look like, but think it
would look a lot different thanwhat it looks like now a more
(22:27):
positive direction.
if I had the opportunity to giftsomeone that, I would just say,
Hey, yeah, for the next fewdays, what if you just dropped
everything and did that and youactually just really took your
time with that, because I thinkthat it could very much change
your life.
Finding the shape of yourauthentic self in a commodified
world can feel a lot likesculpture.
(22:49):
You start with a nondescriptslab of marble heavy with
expectations and socialconditioning.
And you gradually chip andchisel away to reveal the shape
of something beautiful beneath.
And you do that by examininginch by inch, as you go, the
material that's been given toyou.
The lumpy bits that you havethat perhaps you don't need.
(23:11):
And what parts are essential tothe shape, your slowly defining.
That sculpting is happening atthe intersection of self and
society.
And it's important both to findwhere your edges are, but also
to remember that your sculptureof self is made of from stuff.
Even if, sometimes it feels likejelly.
Gail Reichert (23:31):
I think it would come back to that self-talk,
because I see so much potentialdampened down by lack of belief
and lack of willingness to findout where your edges I believe
in living at the edge".
"if you're not living at theedge you're taking up too much
space".
And I think, if I can continueliving at the edge, if I can
(23:56):
continue pushing myself andnudging others, I've got to,
probably pull back a bit onnudging others, and just take
responsibility for myself.
Then, I've got the possibilityof living a very full life.
Scooting into the grave fullyused up.
I don't want to go out when I'vestill got some fuel in the tank.
I want to use it all up.
(24:17):
So, a Life-changing experience Icould give to someone is, be
aware of the limitations youputting on yourself.
Be aware of the words thatyou're saying to yourself and
speak to yourself as if you werespeaking to your best friend or
your closest,dearest relative.
Believe in yourself, testyourself, find out where your
(24:39):
edges are.
Danu Poyner:
It's called Joe of course mightbe too tidy, intentional and
static as a metaphor for aproject of self-understanding.
Sometimes a life-changingexperience is learning just to
hurl yourself into things andfind out who you are in the
process.
Kathryn Harris (24:57):
If I was to gift something to a young person or
an older person, is just stepright outside your comfort zone.
Do something amazingly differentthat you've never planned on,
that you've never thought of andyou will not regret it.
You just learn so much from thatexperience about yourself and I
(25:21):
would gift that to somebody in aheartbeat.
Tears and all.
Some call it getting outsideyour comfort zone or perhaps a
life-changing mindset islearning that your comfort side
might cover a larger area thanyou realize.
Maxine Bryant (25:35):
One of the things that I'm really keen on at the
moment is getting people tochange their jobs.
That's something that I havebeen through recently and I've
really enjoyed it.
Right through that process ofthinking,'that's too big a job
for me, I couldn't do that job,oh my God that's really scary, I
don't know what I'm doing, no Ithink I could do it, I'll do it,
I'll put in my application', toactually going through the
(25:55):
interview, reflecting on whatyou've done, what your skills
are, and then getting the joband then recognising how much
you actually know when you gointo another organisation.
Particularly when you've been ina place for so long, you lose
sight of how much you'velearned, how much you've grown,
what you actually know.
It's been such a positiveexperience for me and has taught
(26:16):
me so much about myself and mademe see myself in a whole new
light and I've just been reallyhappy.
I would like to hope otherpeople would do that and have a
similar experience.
And of course the exhilarationof playing with the edges of
what's comfortable.
It doesn't have to involve a lotof life upheaval or even
metaphor.
It can be much more direct andphysical than that.
Cristina Huidiu (26:39):
Rock-climbing
Danu Poyner (26:40):
Rock climbing?
Okay.
Cristina Huidiu (26:42):
Yeah, definitely.
I haven't tried any of theextreme yet safe sports, like
diving in Alaska.
Rock climbing is definitelysafer, exciting, and can teach
you a thing or two.
Perhaps the most life changingmindset of all to learn is also
the least surprising.
The one that tells you to startwith the voice inside and allow
(27:04):
everything to unfold from there.
Erich Leidums (27:07):
not being afraid to follow your heart.
As cliche as that sounds, Ithink in a more concrete way,
it's directly related to notbeing afraid of what other
people will think of you.
That life lesson for me, handsdown has unlocked a power and my
gifts, it's connected me to myauthenticity and to not be
(27:30):
afraid to be me and followwhat's in my heart.
Perhaps all this sounds a littlefanciful or too whimsical.
Or even too self-absorbed forthe real world we inhabit.
There's a special kind ofgrievance ed, by those of us who
might be wistful, evenresentful.
That we're here, keeping thingsrunning, being consistent,
(27:51):
disciplined, and Judah forholding them up while everyone
else is off chasing their dreamsor following their joy.
I guess the isolation anddetachment we feel in those
circumstances, simply areflection of our own
unfulfilled or represseddesires.
Or is there deeper virtue incommitment itself?
(28:11):
Well, I'll give the lastlife-changing gift on mindset
and finding the self to John.
And international chessFederation master and Nigerian
national chess champion.
John Fawole (28:24):
That's a very interesting question, and I'm
just going to tell the personthey should do what they love
because it's only when you dowhat you love that you are able
to commit to it.
You are happy about it, you havepassion for it.
And you don't see it like a jobIt's just like a normal part of
(28:45):
you.
So it is just like me.
If you tell me, okay, I shoulddo everything chess.
I'm able to do everything chessbecause I love it naturally.
So just do what you love and youare able to just achieve things
you want to achieve in life.
Discovering the commitment thatflows from loving something may
just be the most life changinglearning experience.
There is.
(29:05):
So that sounds second bucket oflife-changing learning
experiences on finding the self.
Gifted from a wide variety oflived experience.
Let's have another musicalinterlude to absorb all of that.
And when we return, we'll lookat what's in our third bucket,
which is all about transcending,the self.
(30:07):
we've already heard a wealth ofpractical wisdom on broadening
our perspective and finding ourauthentic self.
What about life-changinglearning experiences that are
about transcending, the self.
Like learning to appreciate thetrue power of the mind, body
connection.
Trudi Boatwright (30:25):
I would gift someone the experience of being
pregnant, because I'm a greatbeliever in the mind body
connection and how they talk toeach other.
There's a saying in comedy orcomedy performance.
We have a major and a minor.
Same in piano and music.
You have a major and a minor.
And all the time in our lives,our head plays our major, our
(30:46):
head makes our decisions.
It says to our body, you will goexercise now.
You don't care if you don't likeit, you are going.
Our body plays our minor andholds all this information that
the brain just doesn't listento.
When you become pregnant, thatflips for the first time in your
life and your body says thingslike, you will sleep now.
You will do this now.
You will eat this now, I've beenvegetarian for 20 years.
(31:08):
I suddenly had to eat lambsausages for a week cos my body
just said, you will eat lambsausages.
And it was just this incrediblejourney of seeing how powerful
our body is when it is givenpermission to step forward.
So I would like to gift that toeverybody so that you can unlock
the potential of your body as acommunicator and as a learning
(31:30):
bunch of cells.
Whether or not, you're in aposition to experience the
life-changing learning gift ofbeing pregnant.
What might it be like to letyour body step forward as a
communicator in the way Trudydescribes.
Colleen Kelley (31:45):
I'm going to say that I would gift someone a
surfing lesson.
Okay.
So I have taken many surfinglessons in my life, but I'm
never really good at it.
I can get up on a board and ridea wave in, but what the surfing
lesson teaches you is when youlet go, you are gonna ride the
(32:07):
wave in.
When you're holding on tight andreally anxious and fearful,
you're gonna crash or you'regoing to tumble over or all the
other things.
And this ability to just trustin the movement and getting up
and balancing and all of thosethings.
And there's also fear.
I always have trepidation goinginto a surfing session.
(32:30):
And then you're riding a wave inand you're standing up and you
feel like you're on top of theworld.
So what does life look like onthe other side of that fear and
that grip.
Also, I think I have bailed onsurf lessons before because I've
had too much fear.
And then you're sitting on thesidelines.
And so there is that gift of, doI wanna be a spectator or do I
(32:50):
wanna go in and try?
I think a surf lesson is areally capsuled moment that
embraces a lot of big lifequestions in one experience.
Let go and ride the wave in.
That can also be a life-changinglearning experience for any kind
of creating whether or not wewould describe ourselves as
(33:12):
creative.
The Ungoogleable Michaelange (33:13):
My visual art nowadays is a lot of
times is based in pareidolia,which is a word that just means,
like seeing faces in the clouds.
It's random data interpreted assomething meaningful.
People that come to visit theartist residency, a lot of times
people have not drawn or paintedsince they were kids.
So I will tell them to justrandomly work with some
(33:37):
watercolors, just put'em on thepage, like however feels right,
and then either I will do it orI can show them how to do it.
You start seeing things withinthe shapes and you start
outlining them.
And I feel like that's a reallygood way, one to learn how to
draw.
Cuz a lot of people's barrierfor that is, like I, I wouldn't
know where to start or Iwouldn't know what to draw.
(33:58):
And it's like, if you see it,you can draw it, you can trace
it.
So I would give that as alearning experience, which is on
a creative level, but also Ithink it teaches us that the
world, as we perceive it, hasfirst been processed through the
senses and battered with ourassociations and gets
simultaneously automaticallyprojection mapped back into the
(34:21):
world.
And you become very aware ofthis when you start seeing
things that aren't there andlearning to trace them.
You become more aware of wherethose limits are.
So I would feel like that's alearning experience that on
various levels I like to instillin people.
It's a delicious irony that it'sprecisely by letting go of the
(34:42):
self that we can in fact, bemore present and alive.
And it turns out that's alife-changing experience we can
learn from.
Even without needing to bepregnant or go surfing, we'll
take an art class.
Lalith Gunaratne (34:56):
Just learn to focus on your breath and bring
your mind and body togetherbecause you become way more
powerful if your mind and bodyare aligned to see world as it
really is.
Danu Poyner (35:08):
One breath at a time.
Hey,
Lalith Gunaratne (35:10):
One breath at a time.
We started this wholeconversation by observing that
the learning experiences thatpeople actually describe as
life-changing.
Most often have little ornothing to do with classrooms or
educational institutions at all.
And yet we are much too relaxedabout allowing the institutions
of schooling to interfere withthe practice of educating
(35:33):
ourselves and each other.
So it seems appropriate that ourfinal life-changing learning
gift today.
It's not only about transcendingthe self, but also about
recentering, the practice ofeducation.
Nathan Dufour Oglesby (35:47):
It's to teach.
I don't think everybody's hadthe opportunity to teach.
It's a very simple act but it'sa very powerful act when you're
really doing it, because youdisappear, like the'I' does
disappear in a way when you giveyourself to trying to get an
idea across.
It happens to us in conversationall the time.
But then when it crosses overinto teaching, maybe in a state
(36:07):
of relation, that's very specialwhere you and this person are
both stewards or cultivators ofthe idea.
It's almost like an act ofworship together where you
really are there together.
I'm not saying everybody shouldbe a teacher as a job, but I
think anybody who has taughtknows what I mean, in some
sense, in that you get theselittle moments, but I don't
think everybody gets thosemoments where they really get to
(36:29):
share it.
You can tell that people arehungry for it because, if
somebody has an opportunity toeven train you at a job or
something like that, you cantell there's a pleasure that
gets ignited, we all get.
It's not about beingauthoritative.
It's about the joy of losing theself in being a conduit for
something that transcends you.
Well said, Nathan.
Let's have one more littlemusical pause for reflection,
(36:51):
and then I'll be back to offersome closing thoughts to bring
us home.
(37:27):
So, what does it all mean?
Well, for me, the bottom line isnothing less than this.
If we want the way we doeducation to be actually
life-changing.
Then we need to be a lot lessdistracted by the apparatus of
schooling and a lot moreinterested in learning how to
hold space.
(37:48):
We need to remember thateducation is about drawing out,
not putting in.
And we need to be wondering howto be better midwives because
everything new needs to be heldand needs a place into which it
can be born.
We need to respect educationalspaces as a magic circle or
timidness.
(38:08):
The ancient idea of a sacredspace within which special rules
apply and in which extraordinaryevents are free to occur.
If we need structure, it's onlyto the extent that it creates
the opportunity for us to be inradically present relationship
long enough.
For our fellow human becomingsto grow into flourishing human
(38:29):
beings.
If we're sincere about thepractice of education.
And this is how we need to cometo that practice.
If we're trying to gift lifechanging, learning experiences
to others.
And if trying to giftlife-changing learning
experiences to others is notwhat we're trying to do.
Then just what exactly is itthat we think we're doing?
(38:53):
My hope is that if we take thismessage to heart, Then the
practice of education might beallowed to interfere instead
with the institutions atschooling.
And wouldn't that be alife-changing learning
experience for all of us.
So there you have it, 26 giftsof life-changing learning all
about broadening ourperspective, finding our
(39:15):
authentic self and ultimatelytranscending that self.
Of course this isn't the finalword on life.
Changing learning experiences byany means far from it.
These are just my reflectionsand interpretations from the
convenience sample ofconversations I've had so far.
I feel like I'm just gettingstarted and I'm excited to hear
(39:35):
from an even wider and morediverse range of voices.
If you want to share alife-changing learning
experience, you would givesomeone feel free to email me a
note of voice message or video,whatever works best and send it
to Daniel Danu.
Poyner at grok dot Este.
I might want to try to spellthat out.
It's Britain in the show notes.
And guess what I do have onemore life-changing learning gift
(39:59):
to share.
It didn't fit neatly into any ofmy three buckets.
But it sort of fits into all ofthem.
Or not.
The buckets that really only aframing device anyway.
So consider this a reminder.
Don't be afraid to reframethings any time.
You're not happy with thebuckets you've been given.
Anyway, his Sam.
Sam Hoffman (40:19):
A smartphone.
If everyone growing up couldhave a smartphone, it would be a
life-changing learningexperience across the entire
world, right?
If people could have theelectricity, keep it powered,
the data connectivity to reachthings in a timely manner, and
the hardware, in their hands,regardless of where they are in
the world, is a life-changinglearning experience.
(40:41):
Cuz guess what?
You got everything.
Everything you could ever wantto know in the palm of your
hands.
And thank you for having me inthe Palm of your hands, DHEA,
invisible listener.
This is my last episode for theyear.
I've been doing this show fortwo full years now.
And it's only really, now that Ifeel like it's finally told me
what it wants to be.
(41:02):
Or maybe I finally learn how tohear what it wanted to be all
along.
In any case I'll be back nextyear with more conversations and
reflections on what it means tobe someone who insists on still
approaching the world withcuriosity and care, despite, you
know, everything.
Thank you so much for listeningand stay curious.
when we hear the word educationfor most of us that go to
(00:03):
association is with teachers,lectures, classrooms, courses,
institutions, and credentials,all of the apparatus of school.
If you're familiar at all withmy work, you'll know that I'm a
big fan of this quote from markTwain.
Never let school interfere withyour education.
(00:24):
If you're the kind of person wholoves learning, but doesn't love
school.
This will touch you in thefeelings right away.
But what does it mean?
How does school interfere witheducation?
Well, we made a whole videoabout that and about reclaiming
the old school idea of school.
He is a little snippet.
Education is the basis ofsociety's design.
(00:46):
The system that instills what'sin everybody's mind.
And under this system, thesociety we...
Defines economically, unequally,ecologically arise.
So redefine school, not a toolof the state, but a movement
that arises from those whocreate, whose mode of exchange
isn't monetary wealth, butrelationship and wisdom as an
end in itself.
No more tests, no more rules, nomore half truths back to the
(01:08):
roots.
Back to old school schools.
To put it simply it's aboutrecognizing that the practice of
learning is something distinctfrom the institutions of
learning.
Institutions can help.
They're supposed to help, but aswith so many things in life,
what often ends up happening isthat the very institutions that
(01:30):
exist to uphold an importantpublic.
Good.
Can become estranged from theliving nature of the good they
are supposed to uphold to thepoint that they can end up
becoming an obstacle or even athreat to those who are
interested in the practiceitself rather than the
institution.
Or as we put it in the video,Are you really surprised?
(01:51):
Humans have a tendency tosystematize and the systems
have.
Fine until the systems blind tothe very human beings for whom
the system desired One of themost pernicious ways that I find
school and the institutions oflearning interfere with
education and the practice oflearning.
Is to hijack pretty much allconversations about education
(02:12):
and make them about theeducation system.
Which subtly reinforces the ideathat the education system
somehow has a monopoly onlearning.
But what if the actual learningthat most changes people's lives
is happening somewhere elseentirely.
As a high school dropout whosince spent time getting a bunch
(02:33):
of university greys that mostdefinitely interfered with by
education.
This is a question that hasinterested me for the longest
time.
You're listening to the StillCurious Podcast with me, Danu
Poyner.
Where, when and how to momentsof truly life-changing learning
(02:55):
actually happen.
What do they look like?
When have you had a learningexperience that actually changed
your life?
If you think back through allthe classes you've taken, the
certificates, you've earned thebooks.
You've read the films you'veseen.
The things you've tried, theplaces you've been, the people
you've looked up to.
What stands out most to you as atruly life-changing learning
(03:19):
experience.
On my podcast, Still Curious.
I talk to people who havesomehow managed to keep their
curiosity intact well intoadulthood.
Despite the best efforts of theworld around them.
And one question I ask everyonewho comes on the show is.
If you could gift someone, alife-changing learning
(03:40):
experience, what would it be andwhy?
I've been doing this for alittle while now.
And it's always my favorite partof the show because I never have
any idea what to expect and thethings that each person comes
out with, uh, often surprisingmoving and profound.
When you put them all together,the overall effect is even more
(04:00):
striking and revealing.
So today I'd like to share thecombined wisdom of 27 of my
podcast, guests with you andreflect on what it all means.
For me, the responses to what'sa life changing learning
experience, you would givesomeone.
For broadly into three buckets.
So we'll take them one at a timeand I'll offer some thoughts on
(04:22):
the answers as a whole.
We'll get into it right afterthe music on this special solo
episode of the Still CuriousPodcast.
(04:58):
The first bucket is all aboutlife-changing learning
experiences.
That broaden our perspective,starting with the gift of
empathy.
Kat Daley (05:08):
The biggest thing I wish anybody could have in
learning anything is just theability to empathize, to truly
understand that there's thingsyou don't understand about who
people are, and what makes theirdecisions, and what drives them.
And that sometimes you canimagine being in their shoes,
but sometimes you can't, andjust to acknowledge that you
can't understand it and respectthat whatever decisions they
(05:28):
make or are forced to make mightnot be an indictment on them
being mad or bad or sad orwhatever.
Empathy is about expanding ourinner imaginative space to
include the perspectives andexperiences of others.
I like cat's point about therebeing limits to what you are.
I might be able to imagine basedon our experience and
(05:49):
perspective, And that sometimeswe simply can't imagine what
it's like to be in this otherperson's situation.
Extending out empathy, even insituations where we can't
understand.
It's an act of grace andhumility.
Through which we acknowledge theexistence of worlds beyond the
borders of our own imagination.
And exploring imaginative worldsbeyond our own experience is a
(06:11):
life-changing learningexperience that can come through
the gift of fiction.
Amanda Young (06:16):
It would be for every person to be able to find
a book or a TV show or a moviethat cracks them open and makes
them think about the worlddifferently and sits with them
long after they've finished it.
That's a big reader myself.
This one spoke to me thatfeeling of being cracked open.
You'll never be the same again,but it's like a Japanese kid
(06:37):
Suki bowl where you end up morebeautifully broken than when you
started.
And if we expand our imaginativespace far enough, We may
eventually come to see that.
What at first looks like anoverwhelming array of
differences can turn out to beexpressions of a deeper unity.
Diego Boada (06:57):
I would want to give people the ability to see
the world from a differentperspective from the other.
We just know what we know, andwe don't know what we don't
know.
Working with people acrosscountries I realized that we're
not that different.
We are human beings and sothere's something about that.
It doesn't matter what languageyou speak, what you do, what you
know, just the power of seeingthe world through someone else's
eyes.
(07:17):
it really helps you see theworld in a different
perspective.
With all that in mind.
It will probably come as nosurprise.
That one answer, which comes upa lot is spending time in
another country.
Ann Collins (07:31):
I would gift someone a time to live abroad
and to experience anotherculture.
It's coaching every day, becauseyou're having to adapt and think
and reflect.
You learn so much about anotherplace obviously, and other
people, but you learn so muchabout yourself too.
And you also learn so much aboutwhere you've come from.
You see things with a differenteye.
(07:52):
You're able to communicate in adifferent way and really have a
lot of gratitude for what youhave and for the people around
you.
I think you appreciate whatother people do for you.
For me, every time I've livedoverseas, and I do make a
distinction between going onholiday and actually living,
it's a gift that I would love togive to other people.
(08:15):
Well, the kind of person wholeads with curiosity, travel
offers, not just new experiencesand fresh input.
But also a mirror.
Maria Fernanda Puertas (08:24):
I would say, from a very personal and
current experience, I would sayliving abroad.
I have been very privilegedthroughout my life in Argentina
of being well-educated andhaving the chance to work, to
meet people, to research.
But what you learn when you faceto a completely different
culture, a completely differentroutine, and in group of people
(08:48):
and ways of saying and doingthings, it's a metacognitive
process because you get toreflect upon your own beliefs,
your own practices.
I guess I've been living herefor over a year and I'm still
processing all of that.
I'm still processing what I usedto do and I used to think, I
used to believe.
(09:10):
Again, this is something thatyou're asking me today and today
I can certainly say that (09:13):
having the possibility to live in a
different country.
All the times the life-changinglearning of travel is about the
richness of experience.
There are some understandings wecan only access and process
outside the rationalconsciousness of our usual
routine.
Like when we're in a dreamstate.
(09:33):
In the right spirit travel canbe like stepping into a living
dream that changes you when youwake up.
Myles Tankle (09:40):
go to India, Go to India, get on a plane.
Uh, I've been fortunate enoughto travel some parts of the
world and I've lived in a fewdifferent countries, but going
to India with my now partnerwho, at that point, was just a
friend on a holiday was one ofthe strongest life-changing
experiences.
More than anything else, thebeautiful thing about that
(10:00):
country is that it is all thingsall at once.
There are the most wonderfulmoments of joy and happiness and
color and fluidity ofexperience, which live literally
right next to and on top of thedeepest, darkest parts of the
human experience.
You can either stand at the topof a mountain or be in the
gutter all on the same moment.
(10:20):
I think culturally, it's so vastand so different and so diverse
and there's so much historythere.
Ah, it's just the mostincredible place.
And then other times Still, itmight not be even about where
you go and what you do so muchas the act of leaving itself.
Grace Liaw (10:39):
I know it's not possible with everyone's
resources, but going to adifferent country is guaranteed
to transform anybody.
It's not so much about thecountry.
It's about leaving home, reallyleaving home.
Not next door to the town nextto you, but to put yourself in a
completely foreign environmentfor an extended period of time.
(11:00):
That one will stretch you inways that you couldn't possibly
experience in a familiar settingand transform you and show you
what you're capable of, thatyou, you can do much more than
you would think you could do.
It will show you yourlimitations too.
Humbling and empowering togethernaturally will transform a
(11:24):
person and
As well as the feeling of beingstretched, tested, and reformed.
There's also a sensual freedomthat comes from temporarily
stepping outside yourself andthe everyday burdens of
attachments and identities thatwe all lug around with us.
From the sort of limbo spacethat travel offers, we have free
(11:44):
to examine the many parts of ourlives that we live
unreflectively.
And when we stepped back intoour usual lives, we can
consciously choose whichattachments and identities we
want to bring back with us andexperience the power of that.
Choosing.
Christopher Schoenwald (12:01):
I really like this question.
I think it would be a life livedabroad, at least for a year and
a minimum a year's time.
It just forces you to step outof your own world, your own
worldviews, the way that youinterpret the world.
It just challenges your ownideas of what's right, what's
wrong, you know?
And I think a lot of people havebeen quoted as saying, a lot of
(12:23):
the world troubles that we haveright now would be solved if we
just had like these programs setup where like everyone had to.
I mean, that's completelyunrealistic, but I mean, if in a
perfect world where everyonecould experience another culture
at least once within their life,not just like buy the internet
or even a conversation on theinternet, but literally stepping
into a different world, youknow, breathing in the air of a
(12:44):
different region of the worldand, all of that, what that
represents, I think it'd be alot easier for people to find a
common ground.
Speaking of my own experiencesas of living abroad and now, my
ability to look at my ownculture and elements that I like
and elements that I don't like,and, and, and challenging some
of those thoughts, some of thoseideas and finding bits and
(13:04):
pieces of another culture that Ifind really appealing and great,
and some things that I don't,but at least having these ideas
that the world is so unique.
It is so distinct that justslipping into one mindset or one
worldview, it's, it's adangerous thing, you know?
And if you can give thatopportunity to somebody to
understand that there's so muchmore out there that that's
(13:24):
powerful and
So the embodied nature of travelmakes it pretty much a sure fire
way for anyone leading withcuriosity to broaden their
perspective.
Whether as a living dream, atest, a mirror, or a sum of all
of the above, that's greaterthan its parts.
But what about other lifechanging pathways to empathy and
(13:45):
expanding one's perspective?
When I was little, I used toimagine an empathy helmet that
you could wear to instantlyaccess the full sensory
experience of someone else'sperspective.
Uh, way to main line empathy, Iguess.
I was reminded of that whenlistening to Lara's
life-changing learning gift.
Lara Clarke (14:05):
I think it would be a gift to everyone, or to the
people that don't experiencethis already themselves, as the
opportunity to find yourself ina situation where you truly are
in somebody else's shoes.
So really properly having aninsight into a different
perspective, a differentviewpoint.
(14:27):
Properly engaging in that,because I think we talk at each
other a lot and we listen toopinions, but we don't really
absorb them.
But to really understand, towalk a mile, or a kilometer, in
another person's shoes andreally truly understand all of
the challenges, the barriers,the issues that they face.
If it's a gift to everyone, itmight be the person that's most
(14:49):
opposite to them.
Like, having that opportunity toexperience that other worldview,
I think would just be reallyeye-opening for a lot of people.
And what, if we could expand ourempathy and broaden our
perspective even further intothe non-human world.
Amanda Nicole (15:08):
I would invite them to listen with me.
I would invite them to allow theplants to be their teachers.
That's what I've done and it haschanged my life.
Every aspect of it, even the wayI express myself.
My teacher, Matthew Wood, he didwrite a book, Seven Herbs, and
(15:30):
the subtitle is Plants asTeachers.
And that's what I'veexperienced.
So if anybody could have aneducational experience, it would
be to have a plant as a teacher.
To sit with it and be able tocommune with it and receive it
and hear it in a way where it isteaching you something about
(15:55):
yourself or your way of being,or the world or itself.
It takes us outside of what weknow, which is a good place to
be.
How far can we go with thelife-changing learning of
broadening our perspective.
Well, I'll give the last word onthis bucket to Bob and estate
planner whose life-changinglearning gift is one of the most
(16:18):
profound you'll hear.
Robert Kabacy (16:20):
I would want somebody to have a near death
experience and the reason Iwould want them to have that and
come out of it, cause I don'twant them to die, but I'd want
them to come out of it becausethe people who I've met who have
had near death experiences seethe world in a very unique,
enlightened way that the rest ofus who don't understand what
(16:42):
death really is feel.
They just enjoy every moment alittle bit more.
They appreciate things a littlebit more.
And the minutia of the daybothers them a little bit less.
If you are diagnosed with cancerand you realize that you may not
make it, and then you do makeit, you become a little bit
(17:05):
different person.
You have an experience thatsays, wow, I dodged a bullet on
that one.
If I could somehow magicallyimplant that feeling of seeing
the world a little bit betterwithout the near death
experience, that's what I'd wantto do.
Wow.
Reflecting on all we've heard sofar, we can already see that
(17:26):
when it comes to the learningexperiences that people think of
as truly life changing.
We are a long way from theclassroom and the world of
institutionalized education.
And that's just our firstbucket.
We've heard gifts of lifechanging, learning that are all
about broadening ourperspective.
Let's have a little music to letthat breathe and sink in.
(17:48):
And when we come back, we'llhear stories from our second
bucket.
Which contains life changing,learning experiences that are
all about mindset.
Belief and finding our authenticself.
(18:42):
Now second bucket oflife-changing learning
experiences is all aboutmindset.
Belief and finding our authenticself.
And you found first bucket wasall about a broadening of
perspective.
The first example from oursecond bucket is all about
keeping things in perspective.
Eleanor Colla (19:01):
I think the fact that librarians, The work we do
is very important, but alsoknowing that No one's going to
die.
I think that, for me, it wasvery useful to know, being able
to step out and have thatperspective.
For others, a life-changing giftcan be learning, not to worry
what people think of you.
Travis Yuan (19:19):
Would encourage people to let go of things, to
worry about the past orassumptions about others.
When I grew up theirexpectations pressure from the
family members, society, thewhole environment, but that's
not actually their problem.
I live my own life.
So why do they put my behavioror whatever to themselves.
(19:45):
They don't need to worry aboutit.
You just need to let it go.
Changes in mindset can be sopowerful that after we've
experienced them, we see otherswho might be stuck and which we
could gift them the sametransformational insight we had
or whatever version of it wouldunlock something equivalent in
them.
Seth Fleischauer (20:05):
There's uh, There's a member of my family
that hasn't adopted the samegrowth mindset that I have.
I see the potential of themhaving that and feel that it
would be such an amazingexperience that ultimately
they're, I think, afraid tohave.
I'm not sure what the experienceis.
(20:26):
I've done some out there stuffwith body work and Reiki and
some of these spiritual things.
What would work for any givenperson to shift a mindset like
that I think is a very personalthing.
I don't think I have a way ofpredicting what that would be
for this person but the endresult is what I would give
them.
And I wish I knew how to getthem there.
(20:47):
But others are life-changinggift may not be a particular
mindset, but rather learning tohave deep self knowledge, to
really understand our ownmotivations and the beliefs that
drive our actions.
Lawrence Yeo (21:01):
I saw this question on your list of
questions, and I was like, huh.
Such a hard question, but whichmakes it good.
I think the best way to learnabout yourself is moments, and
let's say we completely condenseinto a learning experience where
it's over one week.
You just write out all yourthoughts, We can start with your
beliefs, your beliefs aboutyourself, your beliefs about
(21:25):
your relationship to work,relationship to money, your
relationship to your family,everything.
And then underneath each one,ask, why?
Why do you have this belief?
Why do you think this?
Why do you think that?
When people journal, most peopletalk about the what's of life.
Like, what did I do today?
(21:46):
What did I experience, what didI accomplish?
But the far more powerful thingto this journal about is the
why.
why did you accomplish that?
Why did you want to accomplishthat?
journaling about the whys willreveal more about yourself than
any what ever can.
if people did this regularly,there would be just enormous
(22:06):
change in the world.
If people understood theirmotivations and understood their
intentions, and took a closerlook at why they believe the
things they believe, knowingthat so much of it has been
instilled by conditioning andnorms.
I don't know.
I don't know what the worldwould look like, but think it
would look a lot different thanwhat it looks like now a more
(22:27):
positive direction.
if I had the opportunity to giftsomeone that, I would just say,
Hey, yeah, for the next fewdays, what if you just dropped
everything and did that and youactually just really took your
time with that, because I thinkthat it could very much change
your life.
Finding the shape of yourauthentic self in a commodified
world can feel a lot likesculpture.
(22:49):
You start with a nondescriptslab of marble heavy with
expectations and socialconditioning.
And you gradually chip andchisel away to reveal the shape
of something beautiful beneath.
And you do that by examininginch by inch, as you go, the
material that's been given toyou.
The lumpy bits that you havethat perhaps you don't need.
(23:11):
And what parts are essential tothe shape, your slowly defining.
That sculpting is happening atthe intersection of self and
society.
And it's important both to findwhere your edges are, but also
to remember that your sculptureof self is made of from stuff.
Even if, sometimes it feels likejelly.
Gail Reichert (23:31):
I think it would come back to that self-talk,
because I see so much potentialdampened down by lack of belief
and lack of willingness to findout where your edges I believe
in living at the edge".
"if you're not living at theedge you're taking up too much
space".
And I think, if I can continueliving at the edge, if I can
(23:56):
continue pushing myself andnudging others, I've got to,
probably pull back a bit onnudging others, and just take
responsibility for myself.
Then, I've got the possibilityof living a very full life.
Scooting into the grave fullyused up.
I don't want to go out when I'vestill got some fuel in the tank.
I want to use it all up.
(24:17):
So, a Life-changing experience Icould give to someone is, be
aware of the limitations youputting on yourself.
Be aware of the words thatyou're saying to yourself and
speak to yourself as if you werespeaking to your best friend or
your closest,dearest relative.
Believe in yourself, testyourself, find out where your
(24:39):
edges are.
Danu Poyner:
It's called Joe of course mightbe too tidy, intentional and
static as a metaphor for aproject of self-understanding.
Sometimes a life-changingexperience is learning just to
hurl yourself into things andfind out who you are in the
process.
Kathryn Harris (24:57):
If I was to gift something to a young person or
an older person, is just stepright outside your comfort zone.
Do something amazingly differentthat you've never planned on,
that you've never thought of andyou will not regret it.
You just learn so much from thatexperience about yourself and I
(25:21):
would gift that to somebody in aheartbeat.
Tears and all.
Some call it getting outsideyour comfort zone or perhaps a
life-changing mindset islearning that your comfort side
might cover a larger area thanyou realize.
Maxine Bryant (25:35):
One of the things that I'm really keen on at the
moment is getting people tochange their jobs.
That's something that I havebeen through recently and I've
really enjoyed it.
Right through that process ofthinking,'that's too big a job
for me, I couldn't do that job,oh my God that's really scary, I
don't know what I'm doing, no Ithink I could do it, I'll do it,
I'll put in my application', toactually going through the
(25:55):
interview, reflecting on whatyou've done, what your skills
are, and then getting the joband then recognising how much
you actually know when you gointo another organisation.
Particularly when you've been ina place for so long, you lose
sight of how much you'velearned, how much you've grown,
what you actually know.
It's been such a positiveexperience for me and has taught
(26:16):
me so much about myself and mademe see myself in a whole new
light and I've just been reallyhappy.
I would like to hope otherpeople would do that and have a
similar experience.
And of course the exhilarationof playing with the edges of
what's comfortable.
It doesn't have to involve a lotof life upheaval or even
metaphor.
It can be much more direct andphysical than that.
Cristina Huidiu (26:39):
Rock-climbing
Danu Poyner (26:40):
Rock climbing?
Okay.
Cristina Huidiu (26:42):
Yeah, definitely.
I haven't tried any of theextreme yet safe sports, like
diving in Alaska.
Rock climbing is definitelysafer, exciting, and can teach
you a thing or two.
Perhaps the most life changingmindset of all to learn is also
the least surprising.
The one that tells you to startwith the voice inside and allow
(27:04):
everything to unfold from there.
Erich Leidums (27:07):
not being afraid to follow your heart.
As cliche as that sounds, Ithink in a more concrete way,
it's directly related to notbeing afraid of what other
people will think of you.
That life lesson for me, handsdown has unlocked a power and my
gifts, it's connected me to myauthenticity and to not be
(27:30):
afraid to be me and followwhat's in my heart.
Perhaps all this sounds a littlefanciful or too whimsical.
Or even too self-absorbed forthe real world we inhabit.
There's a special kind ofgrievance ed, by those of us who
might be wistful, evenresentful.
That we're here, keeping thingsrunning, being consistent,
(27:51):
disciplined, and Judah forholding them up while everyone
else is off chasing their dreamsor following their joy.
I guess the isolation anddetachment we feel in those
circumstances, simply areflection of our own
unfulfilled or represseddesires.
Or is there deeper virtue incommitment itself?
(28:11):
Well, I'll give the lastlife-changing gift on mindset
and finding the self to John.
And international chessFederation master and Nigerian
national chess champion.
John Fawole (28:24):
That's a very interesting question, and I'm
just going to tell the personthey should do what they love
because it's only when you dowhat you love that you are able
to commit to it.
You are happy about it, you havepassion for it.
And you don't see it like a jobIt's just like a normal part of
(28:45):
you.
So it is just like me.
If you tell me, okay, I shoulddo everything chess.
I'm able to do everything chessbecause I love it naturally.
So just do what you love and youare able to just achieve things
you want to achieve in life.
Discovering the commitment thatflows from loving something may
just be the most life changinglearning experience.
There is.
(29:05):
So that sounds second bucket oflife-changing learning
experiences on finding the self.
Gifted from a wide variety oflived experience.
Let's have another musicalinterlude to absorb all of that.
And when we return, we'll lookat what's in our third bucket,
which is all about transcending,the self.
(30:07):
we've already heard a wealth ofpractical wisdom on broadening
our perspective and finding ourauthentic self.
What about life-changinglearning experiences that are
about transcending, the self.
Like learning to appreciate thetrue power of the mind, body
connection.
Trudi Boatwright (30:25):
I would gift someone the experience of being
pregnant, because I'm a greatbeliever in the mind body
connection and how they talk toeach other.
There's a saying in comedy orcomedy performance.
We have a major and a minor.
Same in piano and music.
You have a major and a minor.
And all the time in our lives,our head plays our major, our
(30:46):
head makes our decisions.
It says to our body, you will goexercise now.
You don't care if you don't likeit, you are going.
Our body plays our minor andholds all this information that
the brain just doesn't listento.
When you become pregnant, thatflips for the first time in your
life and your body says thingslike, you will sleep now.
You will do this now.
You will eat this now, I've beenvegetarian for 20 years.
(31:08):
I suddenly had to eat lambsausages for a week cos my body
just said, you will eat lambsausages.
And it was just this incrediblejourney of seeing how powerful
our body is when it is givenpermission to step forward.
So I would like to gift that toeverybody so that you can unlock
the potential of your body as acommunicator and as a learning
(31:30):
bunch of cells.
Whether or not, you're in aposition to experience the
life-changing learning gift ofbeing pregnant.
What might it be like to letyour body step forward as a
communicator in the way Trudydescribes.
Colleen Kelley (31:45):
I'm going to say that I would gift someone a
surfing lesson.
Okay.
So I have taken many surfinglessons in my life, but I'm
never really good at it.
I can get up on a board and ridea wave in, but what the surfing
lesson teaches you is when youlet go, you are gonna ride the
(32:07):
wave in.
When you're holding on tight andreally anxious and fearful,
you're gonna crash or you'regoing to tumble over or all the
other things.
And this ability to just trustin the movement and getting up
and balancing and all of thosethings.
And there's also fear.
I always have trepidation goinginto a surfing session.
(32:30):
And then you're riding a wave inand you're standing up and you
feel like you're on top of theworld.
So what does life look like onthe other side of that fear and
that grip.
Also, I think I have bailed onsurf lessons before because I've
had too much fear.
And then you're sitting on thesidelines.
And so there is that gift of, doI wanna be a spectator or do I
(32:50):
wanna go in and try?
I think a surf lesson is areally capsuled moment that
embraces a lot of big lifequestions in one experience.
Let go and ride the wave in.
That can also be a life-changinglearning experience for any kind
of creating whether or not wewould describe ourselves as
(33:12):
creative.
The Ungoogleable Michaelange (33:13):
My visual art nowadays is a lot of
times is based in pareidolia,which is a word that just means,
like seeing faces in the clouds.
It's random data interpreted assomething meaningful.
People that come to visit theartist residency, a lot of times
people have not drawn or paintedsince they were kids.
So I will tell them to justrandomly work with some
(33:37):
watercolors, just put'em on thepage, like however feels right,
and then either I will do it orI can show them how to do it.
You start seeing things withinthe shapes and you start
outlining them.
And I feel like that's a reallygood way, one to learn how to
draw.
Cuz a lot of people's barrierfor that is, like I, I wouldn't
know where to start or Iwouldn't know what to draw.
(33:58):
And it's like, if you see it,you can draw it, you can trace
it.
So I would give that as alearning experience, which is on
a creative level, but also Ithink it teaches us that the
world, as we perceive it, hasfirst been processed through the
senses and battered with ourassociations and gets
simultaneously automaticallyprojection mapped back into the
(34:21):
world.
And you become very aware ofthis when you start seeing
things that aren't there andlearning to trace them.
You become more aware of wherethose limits are.
So I would feel like that's alearning experience that on
various levels I like to instillin people.
It's a delicious irony that it'sprecisely by letting go of the
(34:42):
self that we can in fact, bemore present and alive.
And it turns out that's alife-changing experience we can
learn from.
Even without needing to bepregnant or go surfing, we'll
take an art class.
Lalith Gunaratne (34:56):
Just learn to focus on your breath and bring
your mind and body togetherbecause you become way more
powerful if your mind and bodyare aligned to see world as it
really is.
Danu Poyner (35:08):
One breath at a time.
Hey,
Lalith Gunaratne (35:10):
One breath at a time.
We started this wholeconversation by observing that
the learning experiences thatpeople actually describe as
life-changing.
Most often have little ornothing to do with classrooms or
educational institutions at all.
And yet we are much too relaxedabout allowing the institutions
of schooling to interfere withthe practice of educating
(35:33):
ourselves and each other.
So it seems appropriate that ourfinal life-changing learning
gift today.
It's not only about transcendingthe self, but also about
recentering, the practice ofeducation.
Nathan Dufour Oglesby (35:47):
It's to teach.
I don't think everybody's hadthe opportunity to teach.
It's a very simple act but it'sa very powerful act when you're
really doing it, because youdisappear, like the'I' does
disappear in a way when you giveyourself to trying to get an
idea across.
It happens to us in conversationall the time.
But then when it crosses overinto teaching, maybe in a state
(36:07):
of relation, that's very specialwhere you and this person are
both stewards or cultivators ofthe idea.
It's almost like an act ofworship together where you
really are there together.
I'm not saying everybody shouldbe a teacher as a job, but I
think anybody who has taughtknows what I mean, in some
sense, in that you get theselittle moments, but I don't
think everybody gets thosemoments where they really get to
(36:29):
share it.
You can tell that people arehungry for it because, if
somebody has an opportunity toeven train you at a job or
something like that, you cantell there's a pleasure that
gets ignited, we all get.
It's not about beingauthoritative.
It's about the joy of losing theself in being a conduit for
something that transcends you.
Well said, Nathan.
Let's have one more littlemusical pause for reflection,
(36:51):
and then I'll be back to offersome closing thoughts to bring
us home.
(37:27):
So, what does it all mean?
Well, for me, the bottom line isnothing less than this.
If we want the way we doeducation to be actually
life-changing.
Then we need to be a lot lessdistracted by the apparatus of
schooling and a lot moreinterested in learning how to
hold space.
(37:48):
We need to remember thateducation is about drawing out,
not putting in.
And we need to be wondering howto be better midwives because
everything new needs to be heldand needs a place into which it
can be born.
We need to respect educationalspaces as a magic circle or
timidness.
(38:08):
The ancient idea of a sacredspace within which special rules
apply and in which extraordinaryevents are free to occur.
If we need structure, it's onlyto the extent that it creates
the opportunity for us to be inradically present relationship
long enough.
For our fellow human becomingsto grow into flourishing human
(38:29):
beings.
If we're sincere about thepractice of education.
And this is how we need to cometo that practice.
If we're trying to gift lifechanging, learning experiences
to others.
And if trying to giftlife-changing learning
experiences to others is notwhat we're trying to do.
Then just what exactly is itthat we think we're doing?
(38:53):
My hope is that if we take thismessage to heart, Then the
practice of education might beallowed to interfere instead
with the institutions atschooling.
And wouldn't that be alife-changing learning
experience for all of us.
So there you have it, 26 giftsof life-changing learning all
about broadening ourperspective, finding our
(39:15):
authentic self and ultimatelytranscending that self.
Of course this isn't the finalword on life.
Changing learning experiences byany means far from it.
These are just my reflectionsand interpretations from the
convenience sample ofconversations I've had so far.
I feel like I'm just gettingstarted and I'm excited to hear
(39:35):
from an even wider and morediverse range of voices.
If you want to share alife-changing learning
experience, you would givesomeone feel free to email me a
note of voice message or video,whatever works best and send it
to Daniel Danu.
Poyner at grok dot Este.
I might want to try to spellthat out.
It's Britain in the show notes.
And guess what I do have onemore life-changing learning gift
(39:59):
to share.
It didn't fit neatly into any ofmy three buckets.
But it sort of fits into all ofthem.
Or not.
The buckets that really only aframing device anyway.
So consider this a reminder.
Don't be afraid to reframethings any time.
You're not happy with thebuckets you've been given.
Anyway, his Sam.
Sam Hoffman (40:19):
A smartphone.
If everyone growing up couldhave a smartphone, it would be a
life-changing learningexperience across the entire
world, right?
If people could have theelectricity, keep it powered,
the data connectivity to reachthings in a timely manner, and
the hardware, in their hands,regardless of where they are in
the world, is a life-changinglearning experience.
(40:41):
Cuz guess what?
You got everything.
Everything you could ever wantto know in the palm of your
hands.
And thank you for having me inthe Palm of your hands, DHEA,
invisible listener.
This is my last episode for theyear.
I've been doing this show fortwo full years now.
And it's only really, now that Ifeel like it's finally told me
what it wants to be.
(41:02):
Or maybe I finally learn how tohear what it wanted to be all
along.
In any case I'll be back nextyear with more conversations and
reflections on what it means tobe someone who insists on still
approaching the world withcuriosity and care, despite, you
know, everything.
Thank you so much for listeningand stay curious.
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