Embrace your inner outlier: going full desert weirdo with Brittany Cole Houston | S4E3 - Still Curious

Episode Transcript
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Brittany Cole Houston (00:00):
For me being an outlier and being

(00:01):
different means understandingand respecting the parts of us
that are not necessarilyreinforced, or seen as being
useful, meaningful.
Outliers in a dataset areusually discarded.
I think this is the same insociety too, right?
If something falls outside thatnormal range of the bell curve,
we look at it as extraneous andas something that doesn't really

(00:23):
belong to the regular dataset,because look at all these other
pieces of data that are all herecomfortably in the normal range,
and then there's one over here.
When in reality I think that theoutliers tell such a bigger
story of the dynamic learningexperience that we have as
humans.
And I think that they need to beincluded in the data set.
I think that they can actuallyinform the data set.
Embracing that means takingthose parts of self that we've

(00:47):
been encouraged to abandon orbelieve that they were not
useful, valuable, likable, andreincorporating those,
reclaiming them in a way that isuseful and valuable in showing
people, what they were missing.

Danu Poyner (01:04):
You're listening to this Still Curious Podcast with
me.
Danu Poyner.
The show where I meet people whoinsist on relating to the world
with curiosity and care and talkto them about the red thread
that runs through their lifestory.
And which ultimately empowersthem to flourish as their
unrepeatable selves.
The voice you just heard belongsto my guest today.

(01:26):
Britney Cole Houston.
Uh, silver Smith non-traditionaleducator and the creative force
behind full desert weirdo.
Britney was raised in a uniqueand diverse family environment.
That was far from conventional.
Her grandmother ran a fosterhome.
Leading to a household filledwith individuals from various
backgrounds, abilities, andages.

(01:48):
This early exposure to diversitymeant Brittany grew up knowing
loving family in a context thattranscended biological
connections.
It instilled in her a profoundsense of empathy and an
understanding of the spectrum ofhuman experience.

Brittany Cole Housto (02:04):
mutability is a very important thing, being
able to have the freedom tochange and change your mind your
ideas is very important to meand I think it's very important
to humans in general, it's animportant aspect of growth.
the word weird is part of it.
WYRD, the Germanic root isrelated to turning, to spinning
something and that's why I referto a lot of things as weirding.

(02:25):
When we call someone weird, itbecame a really beautiful thing
because I realized, oh, this isexactly like what I like about
myself, that I can change all ofthe time.
Everybody's weirding all thetime.
That's what I really believe.
We are all constantly in a stateof becoming

From a young age, Brittany found herself at odds
with the teachings andexpectations of the latter day
saints church into which she wasborn.
She questioned the rigiddoctrines and gender roles
prescribed by the church.
Feeling a deep misalignment withits values.
Especially regardingexpectations placed upon her as
a young woman in the LDScommunity.

(03:03):
Her curiosity about otherreligions and belief systems,
coupled with a strong sense ofjustice and equality.
I clashed with the teachings ofthe LDS church, leading to
feelings of isolation and aquest for a belief system that
resonated with her in a truth.
Brittany's journey througheducation was marked by a
refusal to settle into any onediscipline.

(03:25):
Reflecting a restless spirit anda deep desire for a
comprehensive understanding ofthe world and her place within
it.
She ventured into various fieldsof study from philosophy to
theater and film, but it was aserendipitous encounter with her
friend, Mary that prompted athreshold moment.
Mary recognizing Brittany'sintrinsic empathy, understanding

(03:48):
of diversity and her uniqueupbringing in a non-traditional
family suggested the Brittanymight find fulfillment in
working with children withautism.
Encouraged by Mary and driven bya new found sense of purpose.
Brittany took a leap into theunknown.
She began working one-on-onewith autistic children,
employing applied behavioranalysis and other educational

(04:10):
strategies to support thatdevelopment.
This work was not just a job forBrittany.
It was a calling.
She saw in these children thesame desire for acceptance and
understanding that she hadlonged for throughout her life.
And this would lead to over twodecades working in the field of
autism.

If you ask a person with autism, if
they feel like they'redisordered, the answer's not
always going to be yes.
If you ask them do they feeldifferent, the answer will
likely be yes.
but it's not necessarily adisorder.
I would say that it's acollection of behaviors that lie
outside of the normal range, butthe way that I've been trained
the ways that I've worked in thefield, are to take that

(04:51):
diagnosis and throw it out thewindow and look at the person.
What are their collection ofbehaviors?
Excesses.
Deficits?
What can they do and not do?
What do they need to be able todo in order to take care of
themselves, and get their needsand their wants met?
One of the reasons I chose toleave was because it felt like I
worked with so many amazing,intelligent beings that nobody

(05:14):
treated as intelligent.

Throughout her tenure in the autism field,
Brittany became increasinglyaware of systemic issues that
often prioritize conformity of agenuine understanding and
acceptance of neurodivergentindividuals.
The work had become asignificant part of her
identity, but her journey wasmarked by a growing moral
dissonance.

(05:37):
As she grappled with therealization that her work in its
existing framework mightinadvertently contribute to
narratives and practices.
She fundamentally disagreedwith.
Brittany recognized thatcontinuing in a system that
conflicted with her core valueswas unsustainable, both
professionally and personally.

(05:58):
The decision to leave.
The autism profession was notmade lightly.
It was the culmination of adeeply personal and painful
process of acknowledging themoral injury she was
experiencing.
And so she changed.
Leaving the structured world ofautism education propelled
Brittany into a new phase oflife.

(06:18):
In which she embraced thefluidity of her creative
pursuits.
Exploring new forms ofexpression and connecting with
the natural world.
Through herbalism and plantmedicine.
Her journey also led her toreconnect with spirituality,
moving from atheism to findingsolace and inspiration in
animism and deep ecology.

(06:38):
Further enriching herunderstanding of herself and her
place in the world.
She became a death doula,providing emotional, spiritual,
and practical support to peopleand their families during the
dying and mourning process.
This transition was not justabout leaving a profession, but
also about moving towards a moreholistic and authentic

(07:00):
expression of her commitments tofostering, understanding,
compassion and acceptance inevery aspect of human
experience.
In retrospect, another thresholdmoment arrived with a gift from
her mother.
A silver smithing kit thatunlocked a new realm of
creativity.
And self-expression.
This marked the beginning of herjourney into being a maker and

(07:22):
the eventual creation of fulldesert weirdo.
As a silver Smith, Brittanyfinds a unique relationship with
a material that is as mutable asshe is.
Creating pieces that are notjust objects of adornment, but
extensions of her being aninteractions with the world.
Ultimately Brittany realized shehad been wanting to deviate from

(07:43):
the norm since birth.
Not ever wanting to be likeother people, but then also
struggling.
Not fitting in and not feelinglike there was a sense of
belonging.
The launch of her brand wastherefore not just about jewelry
making.
It was a reminder of the powerof weirding of turning,
spinning, and transforming intosomething near.

(08:04):
It's about the courage to stepinto the unknown, to let go of
what no longer serves us and toboldly claim our space in the
spectrum of existence.

When I gave myself full permission to
be as weird as I wanted, Ifinally understood that I could
have been doing this the wholetime.
I could have been having fun.
I could have been being myselfthis entire time.
Initially my mom was like, butwhy do you have to call it full
desert Weirdo?
She was like, yeah, but I don'tthink you're a weirdo.
I'm like, well, maybe you don'tmom, but other people do and I

(08:35):
know I am.

Talking to Brittany opened a whirlwind of possible
conversation.
Parts.
At first, I found myself gettingflustered that we couldn't
explore them all.
But then I realized that if wesat down to record it again, no
matter how many times I'm surewhat came up would always be
different, but somehow neverchanging.
And isn't that just aninvitation to appreciate the

(08:58):
sanctity and significance of theversion of existence.
We do get to enjoy.
So join us as Brittany callHouston guides us through her
beautiful ever evolvinglandscape.
Inspiring us to question growand to embrace the fullness of
our own weird and wonderfulselves.
That's after the music ontoday's episode.

(09:18):
Of the Still Curious Podcast.

(09:49):
So, hi Brittany.
Welcome to the podcast.
How are you going?

Good.
That's been a pretty good day.
Pretty good week.

So you describe yourself as a silversmith, a
non-traditional educator, andthe human behind full desert
weirdo, which we're gonna getinto.
You're a highly mutable, queer,ever becoming neurodivergent
human animal that loves nature,creativity, folk herbalism,
music, movement, and makingthings.

(10:16):
So I'm curious what you wouldsay is the most important thing
for someone to understand aboutyou.

Um, mutability is a very important
thing, I think in terms of myown essence and the way that I
kind of work in the world, andthe way that I wish other people
to be understood.
Being able to have the freedomto change and change your mind
and your ideas is very importantto me and I think it's very

(10:42):
important to humans in general,and I think it, it's an
important aspect of growth.

I'm really interested in this fusion you
have going on through all thethings I've seen between this
elemental and material spiritualand material.
Rational and mystical.
I guess a good place to startmight be with you being a
silversmith, because I've nevermet a silversmith before, and
I'd love to hear from you justfirst of all how it works.

(11:09):
What kinds of things are youmaking and how you found your
way into that.

Yeah, I had never met a silversmith
before either, plenty of artistsbut no metal workers prior to my
foray into beginning it.
Yeah, my mom got me a kit oneyear for Christmas, and it came
with like a little torch andsome soldering supplies and a
book.
And so I, I started just kind ofteaching myself by a book.

(11:38):
A lot of silver comes in, likewire and plate, and so in the
beginning stages I only solderedand I still primarily solder,
which is a process of using atorch and an alloy that has a
mixture of different metals andmelts at different temperatures.
Soldering is quite fun, but it'salso very tedious, because of

(12:01):
the way that you have to processthings.
So for example, if I wanna dosomething that was a multi-step
process, I would have to do itseparately and very
systematically, because metal orsilver can only get to a certain
state before it completely goessoft again.
I would say that what I'velearned now is most silversmiths
have a huge studio and they havemany different tools because

(12:24):
it's a very tool heavydiscipline.
The better you get at it too,the more tools you can get to
facilitate your processes.
And I just don't work that way.
I've always been a very folkkind of style silversmith.
So even though now I'm severalyears into doing it, I still
have a very small bench.
I don't buy tons of stones towork with at a time.

(12:44):
I buy what I'm gonna work withfor a certain collection and
then that's it.
I don't have any big productsthat help me press or roll or
polish or do anything superadvanced.
I don't own a kiln.
Um, but I have gotten into moreadvanced skills like casting.
I like encountering metal anddeveloping a relationship with

(13:06):
pieces as I go.
It feels like a relationshipanyway.
And I do get very attached topieces that I create too.
Sometimes it's hard for me tolet them go or decide whether
I'm gonna keep them or sellthem, because it is a
relationship, you know?

What was the first thing that you made that you
were happy with?

So in the book, the first thing they have
you do is create a ring, justform silver wire into a circle
and then get that trued up towhere there's no gaps in between
your ends and you can justsolder together a simple ring.
and that was the first thingthat I made.
So I made one tiny circle, theycall it a jump ring.

(13:44):
So a pendant would hang on anecklace, a smaller version of a
simple ring.
And so I made a little jump ringand put that inside of my ring,
'cause I wanted to make it extradifficult.
So the first ring I actuallymade was a circle ring, not like
just a band, but a circle on aring.
The second thing I ever made wasmy yoni ring, the triangle.

(14:06):
The yoni ring kind of came outof the circle ring, after I
formed a circle, a very tiny onefor the first time I started
playing with my pliers but likethey have hard edges and square
edges.
And so that led me to justforming a triangle around this
little center circle.
And I was like, wow, that lookslike a vagina.
And then that was the secondthing I ever made was the vagina

(14:28):
ring.
A lot of the basic shapes that Isolder are made out of different
gauges of very simple silverwire.
I've gotten the feedback thatthose are the rings that people
like the most.
When people tell me, oh, I wearmy ring every day, it's usually
one of those style rings.
Even though my skills havebecome a little bit more
advanced now.

I'm keen to hear more about this idea you
mentioned about encountering themetal and having a relationship
with it.
Was that something that youstarted to find early on, when
you just got it and you were akid, how old were you?
11 or,

No, no, I was not that young.
I became a silversmith after myentire career in education and
working in the autism field for20 years.
I left education and startedthese creative endeavors and I
technically opened Full DesertWeirdo in 2019, but I was
soldering for about a yearbefore that.

(15:23):
It was something I had beeninterested in doing and
learning.
and the kit made it seem like itwas accessible, but it took me
quite a while to get good Iwould say.
If you're self-taught, probablya lot of people pick it up and
then abandon it because it takesmany tries to get what you're
after.
And you ruin things a lot,especially if you don't know

(15:44):
anything about the chemicalaspects of it.
What made me wanna continue wasthat chemical process.
So seeing like, okay, that'swhat happens when I apply too
much heat or too much pressure.
I just end up with a puddle or aball but I like the way that
that looks, or I can use thatfor something else.
It's the chemical aspect of it.
I call it alchemy, even thoughalchemy is like the medieval

(16:10):
cousin to chemistry.
so I suppose it's chemistry, butfor me, the alchemy aspect feels
that way because I am also inrelationship to the metal.
It responds to me and mytechnique and how I am treating
it.
It's easy to develop arelationship with what you're
working on because you are theperson working it and it's

(16:31):
working with you.
And the more you know about thechemical properties of the metal
that you're working with andwhat you want of it, the easier
it is to understand how youwould do that, or what steps you
would take to achieve that.

Was there a moment when it went for you from
something that you wereexperimenting with and getting
to know to something that youdecided was gonna be something
you would pursue as a moreenduring practice?

Yes.
So I was silversmithing for alittle while before I created my
business, a full desert weirdo.
And decided to name it that anddecided to even start a business
doing it.
I had been practicing for a yearand I was working in the autism
field during that time.
And I had gotten very burnt outwith my job and education and

(17:23):
just noticed how I was feelingto have to put down all of my
creative endeavors and quoteunquote go to work.
I think that My vagina ring thatI make was the first thing that
felt like, it had aphilanthropical kind of
statement behind it, or it wasrelated to something that I felt
strongly about, right.
Which is, being myself and beinga woman at that time was a very

(17:45):
big part of my identity.
So I think that was the momentwas I was like, uh, I think my
other friends would like to weara vagina ring and this is cool.
When I put it on my Instagramfor the first time, said
something about how I was gonnashare all the profits with
Planned Parenthood and thentweet how much money I made off
of my vagina rings to some ofthe more conservative

(18:07):
Republicans in the states,
Yeah.

So there's, there's already a kind of,, alchemy,
going on between thesilversmithing itself and the
identity and sociological stuffthat it's, connected to.
I would love to, hear more aboutyour personal journey, one
question I often ask people is,did young Brittany have a plan?

(18:30):
A

Okay.
So I will say that I've had avery squiggly path, and that's
part of what drew me to Grokkistand, I had many, many majors, I
went to community college rightafter high school, and my first
major was philosophy.
Then I realized that I didn'twanna be a teacher, and that
couldn't really make any money,with a philosophy degree.
So then I changed it to theater,and then I changed it to film.

(18:53):
I loved editing and writing too.
But once I found out too that itwas going to rob me of being a
spectator, that's when film Iknew was not gonna be the thing
for me.
I was like, no, I don't wanna bethinking about, who edited this
and who directed this.
And knowing all the actors it just
really, makes things so muchless magical.
And I wasn't willing to give upthe magic of movies, and make

(19:15):
that turn into a job.
I was in theater at communitycollege, doing community theater
there.
The choreographer was in massageschool at the time.
They were a recruiter for themassage school too.
And they knew that I wanted togo to film school at the time in
San Francisco, and they werelike, you should go to massage
school.
And so I did.
And that was also a veryimportant personal development

(19:36):
time for me.
Massage has really, impacted mylife and impacts my choice to be
really active and care a lotabout somatics and movement
today.
It is difficult in Las Vegas towork in the massage industry.
They really work you like you'rea machine.
And I was doing like eight fullbody massages every day.

(19:57):
It was really just like workingout all day, every

That's draining

You can imagine what it's like in Vegas.
People want a 90 minute Swedish.
They just want their hangover togo through their body faster or
whatever.
They're not interested ineducation.
And I was fresh out school andlike really enthusiastic still
about it.
But then I had a personal injuryat a house party, got involved
in this giant fight and was hitby this guy and ended up having
to have these multiple facesurgeries.

(20:20):
And I got very depressed afterthat because I lost my
scholarship to SFAI in SanFrancisco.
During that time I gave my jobto the person that was next in
line, that I had already hiredand ended up taking some time
off of work for a while.
I was very depressed.
That is when I met my friendMary at a bar.

(20:41):
We used to sing karaoketogether.
And she was like, you wouldprobably really like working
with kids with autism, we'realways looking for people.
She just knew that I would begood at it.
We were close enough friendsthat she knew that I grew up in
a very non-traditional kind ofan environment.
My grandma ran a foster home andadopted many kids.
They had nine children of theirown, but then were foster

(21:05):
parents for DRC, the DesertRegional Center here, which
ultimately I worked for themtoo, when I started working for
the state.
Mary knew that I knew a littlebit about people with
intellectual disabilities, thatI knew about advocacy.
So that's when I first started.
I knew I liked it, but I didn'tknow the theory or anything
behind it.

Can you paint me a picture of what that was like
starting out, like with thefirst kid, that's a one-to-one
situation.
What is the work that you'redoing?

So it's called Applied Behavior
Analysis, ABA, and it's one ofthe only evidence-based
interventions that's likeapproved by the Surgeon General
and the federal government herein the States.
And internationally, the workhas been replicated across many
places.

(21:53):
The work in terms of appliedbehavior analysis, was started
out of UCLA with Evar Lobos, whowas my boss's father, and he
basically began implementingone-to-one teaching sessions
with different people ininstitutions.

(22:14):
EVAR was also the one toorganize a program through UCLA
using his undergraduate studentsas the facilitators or as the
tutors we would call them backin the day.
Now they're called registeredbehavior technicians or RBTs.
But at the time, EVAR got hisundergrad students to be the
tutors for these individuals.
And then using the principles ofbehavior analysis applied in

(22:36):
this setting, people were ableto make gains and develop skills
a lot quicker.
And certain skills that scholarsand academics and the medical
community, didn't believe thatpeople on the spectrum could
learn.
That was like the 87 study, Ithink.
And then ultimately, the 93study was a follow up at UCLA
where EVAR took that same workthat he was doing with people in

(22:59):
institutions and applied it topeople at home.
So that parental involvementpiece was really huge and that
put ABA on the map in terms ofan intervention that could be
applied to different people withunique learning issues.

For people who are not familiar, how would you
explain what autism is to a10-year-old?

I would explain it as a different sort
of a way to process thesensations that we experience.
So people with autism have abrain, that is quite different
than neurotypical people.
Usually they process sensoryinformation differently, and

(23:47):
that it leads to behaving oracting in certain ways.
At times, these ways are visibleand at times they're not.
So it leads to, sometimesbehavior looking different,
saying things differently.
Perhaps engaging in repetitivetype looking behaviors or
repeating vocal things.

(24:08):
If I were speaking to someonethat's my own age that is a
neurotypical peer or aneurodivergent peer.
And it seemed like they couldunderstand other aspects of it.
I would explain it as aneurodevelopmental way of being
in the world.
If I'm talking to you who is myfriend, who I know is an adult
and can understand, then I wouldcall it a neurodevelopmental

(24:31):
disorder.
But that's also a very clinicalway of explaining it.
If you ask a person with autism,if they feel like they're
disordered, the answer's notalways going to be yes.
If you ask them do they feeldifferent, the answer will
likely be yes.
but it's not necessarily adisorder.
I would say that it's acollection of behaviors that lie

(24:52):
outside of the normal range, butthe way that I've been trained
through lobos, like family andthe ways that I've worked in the
field, are to take thatdiagnosis and throw it out the
window and look at the person.
What are their collection ofbehaviors?
Excesses.
Deficits?

(25:12):
What can they do and not do?
What do they need to be able todo in order to take care of
themselves, and get their needsand their wants met?
Why I think I've changed as anadult, that no longer works in
education or one of the reasonsI chose to leave was because it
felt like I worked with so manyamazing, intelligent beings that
nobody treated as intelligent.

(25:35):
Nobody understood their skillsetas something that was valuable
because it was not the normalrange of what someone would call
intelligent or because thisperson on paper had a lower iq,
but they had an amazing, diversecollection of other eclectic
knowledge or were an amazingmusician or had a fantastic,

(25:58):
amazing memory.

You've got this important first step in working
with autism, and I'm trying tounderstand what it's like to be
in your head and your worldviewat that time I can tell that
you've experienced a lot of whatI would probably call these days
moral injury as being part of aprofession that's rubbed you the
wrong way and put you in a kindof ongoing misalignment with

(26:21):
values and it can be hard topull apart all of that stuff.
I wonder if it's possible torecall what your outlook was and
what your way of understandingwas when you were just starting
out, about what autism was andwhat autistic people were.

I initially liked the idea of
helping people, and that's howABA was framed to me.
I went to a training in thecommunity, right?
This was after I had alreadystarted working with a kid, but
they were like, we do thesecommunity trainings every month,
come to one and get the autism101 sort of thing.
And one thing that I reallyliked that they did at the

(27:01):
trainings were, first of allthey had parents there and they
had people with autism there,that you got to talk to and that
shared their experiences andthen they would do this game.
It was called the Shaping Game.
And so one person would leavethe room and they would ask
them, whatever, they can't hearwhat everyone else is talking
about.
But they understood that whenthey came back in, we were going
to try and get them to do somekind of basic gross motor

(27:24):
action, jump, stand whatever.
But we weren't allowed to talk.
We were only allowed to offerapplause.
And it's a really powerfulexample when you see it
happening of how our environmentshapes our behavior.
That initial training was reallyimpactful.
I also got to learn the basicmedical information, right?
They gave a history of autism.

(27:45):
They talked about what theclinical diagnostic criteria
was.
And then they said, now we'regonna take all of that boring
shit and throw it away and we'regonna play games and you're
gonna sit in circles andpractice with people with
autism.
So it's like teaching, but it isjust one-to-one, and it's based
on that specific individual andwhat their needs are, and what

(28:08):
their behaviors are and how theyrespond.
It's also really systematicbecause we know that when things
are introduced slowly and withprecision that we learn better.
And we also know that whenlearning is fun and that person
is having a good time, thatthey're going to learn better

(28:28):
and that the outcomes are gonnagenerally be more favorable.
In one of those first studiesthat EVAR did, what ended up
happening was they found outthat the self-injurious behavior
was attention seeking.
They wanted stimulation.
They wanted someone to talk toand hang out.
I'm getting emotional.
Instead of being treated likethey couldn't socialize or

(28:50):
didn't want to.
And so they would abusethemselves because of that is
the only time someone would comein to interact with them.
I have experienced so manydisturbing situations.
And it's like you said, themoral injury is real, And I
worked for the state too as acare manager for many years, so
I left the Lobo Center workingwith kids one-to-one to take a

(29:14):
job to start a funding agencybecause at the time, Nevada
didn't have any funding to coverABA.

As you're talking, I'm making a moment to connect
still with young Brittany inthis situation.
It sounds like you're on a questnow.
You've discovered this worldthat you've connected with, and
you've seen it that it'simportant, that it's fun, it's
like a second home for you, andyou're recognizing some of your
own un recognized needs andexperience in that.

(29:41):
So it sounds like gone is thetheater and the film and that
stuff and now we're on thisquest and hence the funding
agency step.

Yeah.
I started working withindividuals, one-to-one in the
beginning.
I did that for many years andthen I simultaneously worked for
that company.
There were private agency.
There were many agencies in thevalley offering ABA services,
but the Lova Center was one ofthe first.
And I also worked for them astheir editor.

(30:09):
I would edit the workshopreports and answer calls from
new parents that were navigatingthe autism journey.
And I was very, very good at myintake job.
Parents really liked me a lot,and I think it's because my boss
encouraged me, to do what feltnatural, which was really just
be human and kind and tellparents that they were doing

(30:30):
everything that they needed tobe doing and that they were on
the right track.
And so Because of my intake job,I got recommended by a couple
colleagues for a new stateagency that was being formed.
We had also participated inlegislation and I was at the
time sitting on a subcommitteefor early intervention.

(30:51):
We would get parents to come into legislative meetings and they
allowed us to collect videos oftheir kids when they were not
able to answer any questions ordisplay any type of readiness to
learn skills, like sitting inone place or responding to
questions like, what's yourname?
Who's mommy, who's daddy?
And so those videos were reallypowerful because, people who are

(31:14):
in charge of money, uh, careabout those kind of results.
And so we got like 6 million Ithink our first year, which is
not a lot in terms of statefunding, but it was something to
start on.
And it was called ATAP, theAutism Treatment Assistance
Program.
So I was one of the foundingmembers.
I did their intake and I managedthe waiting list of over 5,000

(31:35):
people across the state thatwere waiting for services.
I worked for Atap for sevenyears and eventually became a
care manager there and thatchapter was very much like less
fun.
I had to make sure that familieswere utilizing the funding that
they were given and the kidswere making progress.
And so writing behavioral plansand goals for each of my clients

(31:59):
and making sure that theproviders are doing what they
need to be doing in order forthat person to have the best
shot at meeting those goals,

Were you able to still be working for the
autistic person in thatscenario?
And how aligned was what the manwanted and what the parents
wanted and what the personthemselves wanted or needed.

That's such a good question.
So one of the reasons that Iultimately left the field was
because it did start to feellike I was no longer serving the
individual and that I wasserving everyone else in their
lives, meaning their parents,their teachers, society on the
whole.
It was particularly difficult toencounter situations where, for

(32:41):
example, a parent would not bein alignment with what I saw a
person wanting to express, likegender, or anything that was
different than what their familywished for them.
So these were situations likeyour family of Origins religion,
and not wanting to adhere tothose standards, or not wanting

(33:01):
to adhere to certain dress codesor ways of being in the world.
I just see that as stiflingindividual expression.
And I started to feel like I wasworking for the parents, and the
parents were trying to mold thischild into being what they
wanted them to be instead ofwhat the person actually wanted
to be.
When you work for the state,you're a mandated reporter as
well.

(33:21):
So I was required to report if afamily was experiencing
something, like if I noticedabuse, and things like that.
So there are many, many timeswhere like just things that were
happening were absolutely notokay.
It was like, either I saysomething about this and this
person loses their therapy or Idon't say something about this

(33:44):
and this person is still at riskof massive harm.
So, uh, oftentimes it was justlike, okay, we have to put
therapy on hold because there'sother abusive things happening
or situations that are notethical.
There is one kid that I canremember who was a really
fantastic artist.
But they really, really leanedtoward gender, non-conforming

(34:07):
types of things.
He was a little boy and he lovedto play with all of his sister's
Disney Princess stuff.
He was constantly stealing hertoys and anytime there was an
artistic task, he would choosethe sparkly, pretty bright
colors.
So for example, I would givehim, like, we're gonna learn how
to draw a house, and the houseis a triangle on top of a square

(34:29):
with a rectangle for a door,right?
But like this kid was so farbeyond that.
And we did have to make him dothat because it wasn't just
about like, we know that theskill's there and we can see
that you're a fantastic artist,but we also need you to
understand that when we sayhouse, people want to see this.
They don't wanna see thatbeautiful princess castle that

(34:49):
you made, and in order to meetthe milestone or say that the
goal is complete, you have to beable to do this.
There was also anotherthree-year-old who, his family
was Muslim and they were quiteconservative and strict, and he
just didn't know the rules.
He didn't know what was expectedof him.
And so a lot of our sessionswere structured around things

(35:10):
that felt very abusive andharmful to me.
And avoiding moral injury, is bytelling yourself that you're
doing the right thing by helpingthis person become adjusted to
society.
And often I still feel thatthat's the case, right?
I am very thankful that I'vetaught many people how to do
very practical things like tyingtheir shoes and hygiene and just

(35:32):
self-help skills.
And at the same time, I knowthat I also have participated in
the trauma that many childrenhave faced doing very difficult
things or doing things that theydo not want to do.
The reality is that ABA isemployed in many instances where
it doesn't need to be.
Kids are kind of over drilledand, treated like little

(35:54):
soldiers or something.
They literally call itprogramming in ABA and that's
sad, right?
But there's reasons for it.
It really just depends on theperson and what their needs are.

So It sounds like by this time you've been in it
for a few years.
You've seen a lot.
You've learned a lot now.
You've got some scars.
You have perceived thelimitations of the overall
system and your working out how,and whether you fit in it
because this is something youcare about.

(36:26):
But how are you going tocontinue to be in this if you
are.
Is that about right?

Yep.
I had to decide like whether ornot I wanted to keep doing it
and ultimately I started reallyhating going to work.
But those people you know, arerelying on me and there's
funding involved that'sdifficult to get and maintain.
And So there's also guilt fornot wanting to go to work but my
mental health had really, reallystarted to suffer.

(36:51):
And I was at the time workingfor a provider that I felt was
not as good as some of the otherproviders.
I started working for thembecause they were a small
company and I knew I could getin at that time.
Anyway, they weren't that good.
And so I, I found myself takingon too much responsibility and
there were other ethical issueswith that particular service

(37:13):
provider.
And then I went back into doingone-to-One and one-to-One
usually happens in family'shomes, so you're going into
someone's house and working withtheir child or their loved one.
It's a very intimate situation,but you're also required to
maintain strong boundaries andavoid dual relationships and
things like that.
And that was always verystressful for me.

(37:35):
I was never very good at thatbecause the way that I grew up,
it was like a family, you know,we helped each other.
But we were, when I worked forthe state, never allowed to eat
with our families or to acceptgifts or give gifts to one
another and I hated that aspect.
The clinical world wants you tobe removed, but this isn't a
clinical situation.

(37:55):
When I'm in their house, I'm intheir bedroom.
I'm teaching them how to wipetheir ass.
You know what I mean?
Like, we're getting intimatehere.

How do you teach someone to wipe their ass?

So there's lots of ways, actually,
one of my favorite ways thatI've seen it was like a
kindergarten teacher in Japantied two balloons to the end of
a chair, everyone in theclassroom.
Had two balloons at the end oftheir chair, and they had to
learn how to wipe in between thetwo balloons.
It was very cute.
I've spent an inordinate amountof time looking at young

(38:26):
people's genitals, because yousit in the bathroom, you bring
everything that's reinforcingand fun, every game, every type
of toy.
And then you pump the personfull of liquids and snacks, and
you provide a ton ofreinforcement for any type of
instance of elimination.
So the second, there's like onedrop of pee, everybody's like.

Yeah.
Lots of applause.
Right?
So You are not working in thestate and not working in that
space at all now.
You have gone full desertweirdo, and we're gonna find out
what that means.
But I'd love to know how we getfrom one to the other.

I did not go to college right after high
school.
I like went to communitycollege, changed my major a
bunch of times, then ultimatelywent back to UNLV.
But I was part-time at UNLVwhile I worked in the autism
field for many, many, many, manyyears.
So for six years when I was partof the state program, I was
simultaneously getting mydegree, but did not have one.

(39:24):
I finally did get my bachelor's,and continued to work in the
autism field, but I went back toschool in my thirties to get my
master's, and that was inapplied behavior analysis, this
realm that I had already beenworking in forever.
So I was a non-traditionalstudent in that way.
I went to college and finishedcollege in my thirties, after

(39:47):
over a decade of field work.
One of the biggest turningpoints in my adulthood and in my
personal development was findingthis program that was centered
around herbalism, but also therewere chapters on dream work and
ancestral studies and foods andgoddess studies, and it seemed

(40:10):
very interesting and a littleesoteric,'cause at the time I
was atheist, but I was reallyexcited about the food part.
And we got to camp together fourtimes a year on these cross
quarter pagan holidays.
It was presented as an in-depth,year long herbalism
apprenticeship and it wasamazing.

(40:31):
For the first time I was able tolearn things that were not
taught in any school, anywhere.
Like things about my period, forexample, that I had never known
as a 35-year-old adult.
I still didn't know that spermlives for so much longer than
you think it does Right.
And can live outside the bodyand these different things and

(40:52):
I'm very much a kinestheticlearner.
I love making things and doingthings with my hands.
It stays with my memory a lotstronger when it's a
multi-sensory experience.
And so we got to play withplants.
We got to learn about how tomake tinctures, how to process
different things in differentways, oxy Mels and I learned

(41:13):
animal husbandry too.
That's where I learned to healmy first chicken.
I learned how to catch dispatchand clean, literal farm to table
type of skills.
That's where I first developed arelationship with plants too.
And that really drasticallychanged how I felt about the
world and where I developed moreanimist leaning values.

Your relationship with spirituality seems to be a
central part of your story inshaping your way of being in the
world.
If I understand right, you wereborn into a an LDS family and
became atheist and then foundyour way back to spirituality in
this way that's rooted inanimism and deep ecology and

(41:59):
tantra.

If you would've asked me a few years
ago if I would ever believe inany kind of a God, I would've
had a whole speech prepared foryou of why not?
But yeah, I was born into an LDSfamily.
I knew from very, very youngthat I did not believe in the
value system of the church.
I had a friend in preschool thatwas Indian, and I remember

(42:22):
asking my primary teacher inchurch about multiple gods and
why some people believe in manygods but we only have Heavenly
Father and Jesus Christ and theHoly Ghost.
Even though it's a triad, that'sone God, right?
And my primary teacher came downreally, really hard on me.
Well, I had learned about theword theology.
That's what started theconversation with my primary

(42:43):
teacher because not only did myfriends have different religious
experiences than me, or I waslearning that they did, but I
learned about this word and thatthis word meant that you could
study any religion that youwanted, like in academic
discipline, you know?
And I didn't understand whyeverybody didn't do that.
And so that was also a questionfor my teacher, like, if we can

(43:04):
study everybody's religion, whydoesn't everybody just study all
of them?
It didn't make sense to me whyyou would pick one.
Right?
They were like, you're not onthe right path that God has laid
out for you.
If you're asking these kinds ofquestions, period, you need to
pray about it.
I was made to feel like I shouldbe confused or that I should
feel guilty, or I should feelashamed of that.
And I didn't.
I knew that that was wrong.

(43:25):
Especially because I grew up ina house where so many people
looked different than me, acteddifferent than me.
My family was not all white.
My family was not allneurotypical.
My family was not all the sameage.
We had a very diverse, verydifferent family.
So I knew that it wasn't truethat everybody was supposed to
be the same, that there was onlyone religion, or one true God.

(43:46):
I knew that from an early age.
However, because of that kind ofcultural association that I
spoke to that Mormons or the LDSchurch has, I can't as a kid
extrapolate myself from that.
So I remember being asked to bebaptized at eight and having
very serious thoughts of notwanting to do that.
But my dad made it clear that Icould say no, but I still didn't

(44:07):
feel like I would be accepted orloved or I felt like I would be
told again that I was making thewrong decision if I said no.
Then also as a woman in the LDSchurch, you are not allowed to
hold the priesthood.
They segregate you afterprimary, you're all in church
together as kids.
And then when you hit puberty oraround there, they separate you

(44:29):
into gendered classes.
So the men begin to learn thepriesthood and the women go into
learning other things, mainlyhow to be a homemaker and things
like that, right.
That's when I veered off, Ibecame really rebellious as a
teenager.
And as an adolescent.
I was really into punk rockmusic and in general was a very

(44:49):
rebellious teen.
I did a lot of drugs.
I skipped a lot of class.
We stole cars.
We were very bad.
And after my years ofexperimenting a lot I got really
into atheism as a defense sortof.
I would almost proselytize, youknow, to my Mormon family.
I became really aggressive andconfrontational with all of my

(45:10):
family.
I just wanted to be right.
And I wanted people tounderstand how difficult it was
as a queer person and as a womanto go through this structure and
not feel heard or respected orseen.
Not being able to hold thepriesthood was a big deal.
I saw the men in the church inall of the power that they were
given, simply because they wereboys.

(45:30):
And that just didn't make senseto me.
I was the type of atheist thatlike, if you were religious at
all or even spiritual at all, itwould immediately make me lose
respect for you.
I felt like you were lessintelligent.
I would feel like you needed acrutch, you were weak, you
clearly didn't understand thatthere are so many other ways of
looking at religion in theworld.

(45:51):
It was the herbalismapprenticeship that introduced
me to Tantra for the first time.
'cause I had practiced yoga.
I got really into Bikram for afew years and as a massage
therapist, knew a little about alot of different type of
modalities and entry points tospirituality.
But I couldn't just sit andmeditate.

(46:13):
Bikram worked for me becauseit's very challenging and you do
every pose twice.
So I liked the behavioral aspectof being able to measure my
progress.
And I treated it like I was anathlete, you know?
But sitting with my own thoughtswas never a possibility.
So for me, tantra opened a newworld of things because of the

(46:33):
sound aspect of mantra.
It was the sound aspect thathelped me get into a centered
place or a place that feltpleasantly, aware.
Many traditions, especially intantric traditions, the goal is
like moksha, liberation ortranscending this form.
But in Rivi it's not.

(46:54):
It's bringing the formless intoyour form and walking with God,
with you here.
And there's no separation ofthose things.
I think my soul came here for areason and wants to be here.

I saw on your website that your life card in
tarot is the magician, and thatis about bringing the formless
into form as well in a kind ofresourceful way, as am I right
about that?

Brittany Cole Houst (47:20):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
The major arcana in tarot startswith the fool.
So it's like everything andnothing, right?
That's the origin place, but outof that void comes the magician
That archetype has always beenvery near and dear to me for
many reasons.
But yeah, I, I, I love that.
That's my life card.

(47:41):
They also have what's called atask card.
Not everyone has it, but basedon your birthday, and we should
do yours.
Uh, but yeah, Like sometimes ifyou have a number that
collapses, then you get twonumbers sometimes.
And if you do have two numberswhen doing that numerology
assessment, then that second oneis considered to be your task in
this lifetime.
And for me, that card's theWheel of Fortune because when

(48:01):
you take my birthday, 6/19/83and you add up all the numbers,
you get 10 basically when youreduce.
And then one plus zero is alsoone.
So one is my life card, but 10is my task in this lifetime.
They're both pretty positivecards.
All of them are really, if youknow what to look for in the
archetype.

you've dispensed a lot of information there and I'm
firing with connections all overthe place this idea of being
present with someone inrelationship, as they figure
things out and finding the goodin things and bringing the
formless into form might beconnected to why I've heard you
say that you show up at thebeginnings of things and the

(48:42):
ends of things.

Yeah, I have called myself a death doula
before for many reasons but yes,I have also called myself an
initiatrix.
And I think that those twothings go hand in hand.
Initiatrix, creatrix, becauseyou're like threshold guardian,
you're helping people go fromone state to another.
And we talked about that thealchemy of silver and we talked

(49:04):
about that with people.
And yeah, obviously in mypersonal life it shows up as
well.
And I would say in thosesituations, it's usually just
stuff that has come my way andI've had to figure it out or
I've noticed over time thatthere's a pattern of me joining
things when they're very new,like different groups, right?
When medicine mandala thatapprenticeships started, I was

(49:25):
in the first year of it, andthen I stayed on and worked
there for the next three years.
There were 20 prees that wentthrough every single year.
And I was in the first group andthen became save a staff or
volunteer staff to continueworking them, for the next
couple years.
And Atap, like I helped startthat organization it's just been

(49:47):
a natural sort of situationwhere I've also been part of the
endings of those things as well.
After four years of people goingthrough the program, there were
a lot of things that werelearned, right.
So, taking a pause toreformulate was really healthy.
And I watched that program die.
But ultimately, being a deathdoula for me has always been
around, I've always dealt withdeath.

(50:08):
Having such a large, uniquefamily meant that I watched
people transition in and out ofour home all the time, sometimes
because they had died, and thensometimes because they were
being moved from family tofamily or their biological
parents were back or, differentthings.
So the process of letting go issomething I've always been

(50:30):
experienced with.
There's a skillset there thatusually I can help.
In my most recent experience wasmy friend Jared that died and I
became very close with his mom.
I started to go fund me for hisfuneral expenses because he
committed suicide.
And his parents were older andvery devastated.
Jared was 39 and had alreadygotten his PhD in philosophy and

(50:53):
had worked all over the world.
And, they were not expecting hissuicide.
So, because of the GoFundMeaspect, I got to know his mom a
little bit and it became a verybeautiful relationship.
So we hang out at least a coupletimes a month now.
I've gone to his dad'sretirement choir recitals and

(51:16):
every year since Jared's diedand I helped her you know,
navigate getting the headstone.
I went to Wisconsin with her tohelp clean out his apartment and
sell his car, and, do thesetypes of tasks that as an
elderly woman, she would nothave been able to do alone.
And her husband had polio whenhe was younger, has limited like
ability to travel.
And so it just became this thingwhere I was like, okay, I know

(51:39):
what I'm doing.
I have navigated multiplesuicides in my family.
Two of my mom's siblings shotthemselves with shotguns.
Um, my stepbrother hung himself.
I have a lot of death in myfamily and around me.
Growing up in Las Vegas, you canimagine, people make a lot of
irresponsible decisions andthere are a lot of people that
struggle with addiction in thistown.

(52:01):
So I've been able to take theexperiences that I've had and
apply them when I see otherpeople navigating it.
I would say that navigation isalso a word that stands out as
part of my essence.
I think that it is nice to havesomeone to support these times
of transition in our lives, itis always good to have someone

(52:22):
that has been there or thatknows about what you're
experiencing, to kind ofexperience it with you.
And it certainly isn't always aneasy thing to navigate, but
there are really big payoffs forthe people that are being
assisted and then the peoplethat are doing the prompting as
well.
It's a really good thing.

What a really powerful set of intersectional
capabilities that would allowyou to do that.
To be able to be so wellequipped to step into a
situation that's unfolding whereyou can be someone's threshold
guardian and fill the gaps andgive them the reassurance and
just navigate, as you say, wayfinding thing about way finding

(53:05):
there's always, you can alwaysfind a way, which makes me want
to talk about full desert weirdobecause that's where you're at
now, and I often ask people toreflect on the differences
between their Social Armor cv,which is like the packaged and
polished version of ourselves wepresent to others, and the

(53:25):
shadow cv, which is all theweird and wild stuff that we
usually don't mention to people,but which has actually been
really important in shaping whowe are and teaching us the
wisdom that we've accumulated.
So it strikes me that when youput yourself out there as full
desert weirdo, you are making adeliberate choice to put the

(53:46):
shadow CV out there front andcenter and invite others to
encounter you that way.
And it's a very bold thing todo.
And, I'm intrigued by thebuildup and the decision.
So, would you like to take usthrough what that choice means
to you?
And what would you like othersto understand by it?

Um, like the idea of just demystifying
and destigmatizing any part ofself that is or was frowned
upon, not accepted, or dismissedin our upbringing or in any of
our learning experiences.

(54:27):
I like the idea of unburdeningourselves, and I think that's a
lot of what shadow work is aboutis looking at the places where
we've been taught somethingabout ourselves that seems
inappropriate, but when we arebrave enough to look at that, or
face that, ultimately werecognize that it was never

(54:48):
something that was harmful orbad, that it was always a
sleeper skill, that had not beenidentified as such or had not
been encouraged to grow.
There's also like a huge senseof relief once you permission
yourself to let go or, once youhave confronted some of those
things and come out the otherside, there is just an, a

(55:12):
massive sense of relief and onceyou receive that, it's like,
wow, I could have been doingthis the whole time, but
ultimately, yeah, that journey,it's part of the work and the
relief I think is the reward orthe big payoff for doing the
difficult work of confrontingthe parts of ourselves that we
were unsure about at some point.

I really love that way of thinking about it and the
naming of it and giving that aname in the way that you have is
a sort of symbolic reclamationof all of those things.
I like that too.
I'm still curious where it camefrom, what it looks like, and
how it came about.

Okay, so full Desert weirdo, the name
actually came from anex-boyfriend.
He and I were talking and Iremember I had a spare room in
my house downtown at the time,and I was working on random
creative projects.
Like, I think I had some leatherthings out and some beading
projects.
And I had just started learningto solder and I was explaining

(56:08):
to him like, yeah, I think I'mgonna set up a studio in here.
And and he was like, oh, you'redoing it?
And I was like, doing what?
And he was like, you're goingfull desert weirdo.
I loved that.
But that was something thatstuck out to me was just like,
yeah, you know what?
I am going to be full desertweirdo because like, it's not
that weird to me.
Ultimately it comes from wantingto deviate from the norms, for

(56:33):
me since birth.
Not ever wanting to be likeother people, but then also
struggling, not fitting inright, and not feeling like
there was a sense of belonging.
I think that when I gave myselffull permission to be as weird
as I wanted, I finallyunderstood that I could have
been doing this the whole time.

(56:54):
I could have been having fun.
I could have been being myselfthis entire time.
What's funny about medicineMandala my time there too, was
like, it took me being around 20women, for several years in a
row for me to like let my bodyhair grow out.
That is where I learned I don'treally identify as a woman
anymore.
I feel more queer than anythingelse.
But ironically it was in thisall feminine space where I was

(57:17):
given the safety and the freedomto be able to even permission
myself to think that, right?
Because there's so much aboutgrowing up in a religious family
that gets constructed in areally rigid way, that's really
hard to unlearn and unpack.
So I'm a good example of justcoming full circle in terms of
what people or your family oryour religion of origin, those

(57:41):
expectations that are builtaround you.
And then finding ways todissolve all of that.
It hasn't been easy either,because just having weirdo as a
part of my title in my business,it's very difficult for people
to really understand why I wouldcall myself that.
Initially my mom was like, butwhy do you have to call it full

(58:03):
desert Weirdo?
She was like, yeah, but I don'tthink you're a weirdo.
I'm like, well, maybe you don'tmom, but other people do and I
know I am.
So, but ultimately too, the wordweird is part of it.
When I learned about theetymology of that word and I
thought about what that meanswhen we call someone weird, it
became a really beautiful thingbecause I realized, oh, this is

(58:24):
exactly like what I like aboutmyself, that I can change all of
the time.
That I am never remaining in onestate for too long.
That my preferences are gonnachange, that my environment's
gonna change.
WYRD, the Germanic root isrelated to turning, to spinning
something and that's why I referto a lot of things as weirding.
Everybody's weirding all thetime.

(58:45):
That's what I really believe.
We are all constantly in a stateof becoming.
When we talk about somethingtransforming or moving from one
state to another, we talk about,oh, it's turning into right.
And so weirding is embedded inso much of our language.
It only became a negative thingpost like Roman and Christian

(59:07):
influence in Europe.
Before that women would weirdand in Scotland, right?
There are songs that arerepetitive in nature that tend
to make the work go by.
And oftentimes in pre RomanEurope and other places, we have
found that that is where a lotof wisdom is held, is in these

(59:28):
songs and in these folk talesand in children's songs, right?
Because of Christianity andRoman influence those things
were being stamped out.
But when you see women justsinging together, no, there's no
problem there.
Or I'm gonna tell this littlekid a story.
Yeah.
There's obviously nothing wrongwith that.
And so the real wisdom andcrystallized intelligence began

(59:49):
to be transmitted in this codedway, through these other types
of modalities.
But ultimately, the women whowould spin and weird together,
they would spin either weavingor processing wool or cooking,
and they would sing these songstogether.
And ultimately those werestamped out too, because the
priests were afraid that theywere casting spells, and that is

(01:00:12):
ultimately what they were doing,right?
Everything we say is a spell.
There are other ways of spellcasting too, not just with
words.
We do it in our dailyactivities.
And that's what I meant bysaying that many of the things
that we're devoted to, or thatwe're passionate about too, are
the same as sadana.
Sadana doesn't have to look likewhat it looks like for me,
sitting at my altar and goingthrough a ritualized process.

(01:00:35):
It can be baking bread, it canbe dancing, it can be whatever
it is that you're creating orthat you're passionate about.
And to me, all of that isweirding.
Whatever you are taking from onestate and bringing it to another
state.
Like my work as a death doulaand Jared's mother, we have
weirded together by transformingour grief together through our

(01:00:56):
interconnection, ourrelationship, and in watching
each other just live our dailylives.
And we gather for lunch andsometimes we talk about Jared
now and sometimes we don'tbecause we've reached a new
state, we've transmuted a lot ofstuff from our previous state of
grief.

Danu Poyner (01:01:12):
So you're a regeneratrix, on top of
everything else.

Brittany Cole Houston (01:01:17):
mm-Hmm.
And that to me is like themiddle of the creatrix and the
death doula work.
Because they're related, butthere's gonna be a transition in
between those states.
And for me, regeneratrix is thecoming back to life.
That's why they call it a life,death, life cycle, right?
It's not just life, death, andthen it stops.
Or it's not just death life andthen it stops.

(01:01:39):
It's life, death, life, death,life, death.
Most of the experiences thathappened to us as human beings
to follow that pattern.
Think of how many times, evenjust in one aspect of your life,
you've turned over and turnedover and turned over again, to
evolve.
So the regenera aspect for me isabout bringing back something

(01:02:00):
that has died in a new way.
So in the case with Jared andhis mother, Jared was really
into plant medicine, and he hada thing for morning glory seeds,
which were a sacrament in hislineage.
And they have LSA in them too.
So they have mild psychedelicproperties and he would take
them regularly, and his mom andI have talked about a lot of

(01:02:24):
really important things thatJared did not address with his
mom when he was here.
And one of them wasneurodivergence and coping with
life, as a person who is aunique learner and why one might
turn to nootropics orpsychedelics in their search for
sameness and to cope with theworld as it is.
But one of the most beautifulthings that came from Jared's

(01:02:47):
relationship to Morning Glorywas that he had a bunch of the
seeds left over when we cleanedhis apartment.
So I took them and mailed themto a bunch of his friends across
the world, and now they're allsending me pictures of the
morning glories that they'regrowing because ultimately
they're a flower and they'remeant to go in the ground, not
into our bellies.

(01:03:08):
It feels like there's new lifecoming out of this situation of
what originally started as griefor loss.
Now it's come full circle and acouple of the stories are
actually really interesting.
One of his friends in Norway hada really difficult time.
She had to move them and like,these ones were really fickle
and she tried to get them tobloom and they wouldn't, it was
like too much rain or whatever.
And then she moved them to thisother spot.

(01:03:29):
They were much happier there.
And now they're thriving, but itwas like this relationship of
her own grief, right?
Through this physical process ofgrowing these plants.
And it's just seeds, you know,just seeds

That's very beautiful.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat.
Something that strikes me aboutthe way that you move through
the world is it's veryexperiential.
You kind of put yourself veryactively in these situations and
make the difference between whathappens in a situation and what
doesn't by being there.

(01:04:01):
And I can't think of any morelively example of that than the
death doula work that you'vediscussed.
But you mentioned somethingright back at the start, about
when you were thinking aboutfilm and that you didn't want to
be robbed of being a spectatorand you weren't willing to give
up the magic.
I wonder if you have anything tosay about it in context of

(01:04:25):
everything that we've discussed.

yeah, I would say that when something
becomes a job or when somethingbecomes a chore, it becomes so
much less reinforcing and mydesire and my willingness to
participate and show updecreases.
And I saw that with filmhappening, I saw the beauty of
what I liked about going to themovies disappearing because I

(01:04:50):
was in this place of needing toknow different aspects of the
process.
And I wasn't willing to give upthat sense of wonder and the
sense of suspended belief thatyou get when you drop in for an
hour and a half and watch afilm.
I now move through the world andmotivated by the things that are

(01:05:13):
fun and when they no longer arefun, that is an indication to me
that it's time to move on.
That it's become more of a choreand a job.
Or if there's any sense ofurgency or obligation around a
task that I'm doing, I usuallywill stop and take a step back
and wait until there's a reframebefore I decide to continue
doing that thing.

(01:05:33):
Because ultimately our jobsshouldn't be chores.
They shouldn't be things thatare not fun to do.
There are obviouslynon-preferred tasks and
activities that we all have thatwe must accomplish.
And as contingency managers,which is what we would call
ourselves as RBS or tutors, wewould say we're not teaching,
we're just managingcontingencies in the

(01:05:55):
environment.
But as a contingency manager, Iwill tell you that there are
ways to make even the mostnon-preferred tasks, very
motivating and very fun.

I've heard this phrase in connection with autism
called pathological demandavoidance, I understand to be
this idea that if you werethinking of doing something and
then someone suggests or tellsyou to do that thing, even
though you're going to do itnow, you know I'm not gonna do
it now.

Yeah.
Because I, because someone toldme to do it, It's very
different.
I would say that the placing ofdemands period is the setting
event for the avoidant behavior.
And yeah, I don't think thatthat's pathological.

Also heard it reframed as persistent demand
for autonomy.

that feels better to me.
You're focusing on the positiveaspects of that, right?
You're focusing person and theirautonomy versus their avoidance.
Also what comes to mind when yousay something like that is like,
well, what are the demands andwhat are the tasks?
What's the person being asked todo?
All of those factors areimportant.
The terms positive and negativedon't apply to good and bad.

(01:07:02):
They apply to mathematicallyadding something or taking
something away from a situation.
When you add something to asituation that is a
non-preferred or aversivestimulus to someone, there's two
types of non-compliancebasically and one is avoiding a
stimulus that you know isharmful and have learned to

(01:07:23):
circumvent.
And then the other is avoidingthe stimulus altogether because
you believe it's going to beharmful, even though you haven't
had a learning experience withit yet.
You never come in contact withthat stimulus.
But I don't need to because Ihave another learned experience
that tells me that that's bad.
When you add something thatsomebody likes to a situation
that's positive reinforcement.

(01:07:44):
When you add something thatsomebody does not like to a
situation that's positivepunishment when you take away
something that somebody likes.
I take away your privilege toplay video games.
That's negative reinforcementbecause I'm taking something
away, but it's going to increasethe likelihood that you'll do
whatever you need to do in orderto not get the stimulus removed.
Right.
And then the one that peoplemost misunderstand is when you

(01:08:06):
take something away thatsomebody doesn't like.
so negative punishment is theone.
And people don't understandnegative reinforcement either.
They think that it's somethingbad, but it's not.
It's, I'm taking something awaythat you dislike.
I'm removing a stimulus that isaversive to you or that is
disliked.
I used to use real life examplesfor neurotypical people when I

(01:08:28):
would explain the laws ofbehavior too.
I would say things like, oh,well if you had an annoying
boyfriend that can justconsistently called you or
whatever, and then all of asudden you decided that you were
gonna break up and you didn'twant him to call you anymore and
you just stopped calling him,well that's gonna result in an
extinction burst.
And I would use that to framethis topic of extinction burst
instead of talking aboutsomething that's related to

(01:08:49):
autism only to parents.
Parents need to understand thatthe laws of behavior also apply
to them.
I really enjoy the persistentautonomy languaging because it
is a way of positivelyreinforcing.
It's bringing something to thesituation that is going to
increase the likelihood thatthat person is going to engage
in that behavior again.

(01:09:09):
And to me, that feels relevant.
We do need to know how to say nowhen something isn't us And if I
don't want to do this task, thenI won't.
Sometimes we don't wanna dothose things, but we do have to
do them.
Yeah, I'm gonna

think of them non-preferred tasks now.
Because this persistent demandfor autonomy and things needing
to be fun, not just to do themwell, but to do them at all is a
really common part of thegrokkist experience, I think.
And people don't alwaysunderstand how important that is
for getting things done.
I wonder, you know, we haven'treally talked about this, but

(01:09:43):
does the language of being agrokkist resonate with you?

Yeah.
Big time.
Yeah.
I mean, there were a bunch ofthings already at Grokkist that
I knew I was gonna fit in reallywell.
One of the first things waslike, oh, they have a group that
they're just talking aboutHitchhiker's Guide.
And I was like, that's cool.
But yeah, the sci-fiunderpinnings, I was just like,
this is great for me.
I Think that as a sensitive,deeply feeling, deeply thinking
person, it's my way to grokthings, you know?

(01:10:11):
I'm a Grokkist through andthrough.

You have this beautiful phrase, which I'm
almost certainly gonna use asthe title of this episode, which
is Embracing Your Inner Outlier.
I'd love to know more aboutwhere that comes from and what
it means to you and how you liketo talk to people about it, what
you would like them tounderstand by it.

That's a great question.
I think when I was learningabout marketing, I realized I'm
not a business person but I doneed to start to think about
what kinds of things do I wannasay and what am I not annoyed by
saying over and over and overagain basically.
And, being an outlier and beingdifferent with something that I
personally identify with.
For me it means understandingand respecting the parts of us
that are not necessarilyreinforced, or seen as being

(01:10:54):
useful, or meaningful.
In general, when you look atthings mathematically, outliers
in a dataset are usuallydiscarded.
I think this is the same insociety too, right?
If something falls outside thatnormal range of the bell curve,
we look at it as extraneous andas a one-off or as something

(01:11:14):
that doesn't really belong tothe regular dataset, because
look at all these other piecesof data that are all here
comfortably in the normal range,and then there's one over here.
When in reality I think that theoutliers tell such a bigger
story of the dynamic learningexperience that we have as
humans.
And I think that they need to beincluded in the data set.
I think that they can actuallyinform the data set.

(01:11:36):
And balance the data sets inways that people don't look at
as admirable.
When you think about it, all ofus know how to do certain
things, we know how to do otherthings less well, right?
So for example, I am reallygreat at talking a lot, and I am
not so good at math, right?

(01:11:56):
Both of those things fall for mein the normal range.
But when you look at the bellcurve, my speech and my
communication skills are gonnabe further to the right side,
which is like the excess side ofthe bell curve.
And then my math skills aregonna be probably just below the
normal range.
But yeah.
Being an outlier and embracingthat means taking those parts of

(01:12:19):
self that we've been encouragedto abandon or believe that they
were not useful, valuable,likable, and reincorporating
those, reclaiming them in a waythat is useful and valuable in
showing people, what they weremissing.

I Reckon I could say with 99% confidence that you
have more than enough outlier inyou to make up for at least
three of your standard deviance.

I'm gonna definitely, if that doesn't make
the recording, I'm gonna wannahang onto that one Danu.

It's a hard one journey to get where you are, to
be able to have that level ofself-awareness and level of
societal awareness, and to knowwhat you can do to self-manage,
and also manage thecontingencies and then act to
change the environment and thesystems.
I'm curious what going fulldesert weirdo has meant in

(01:13:15):
practice.
You kind of mentioned that youwent through this threshold
moment of going, oh yeah, I amgonna do that.
And what have been the practicalramifications of that for you?

Hmm.
That's a great question.
So it meant transitioning out ofa lot of friendships that were
related to the autism community,I worked for the state and so I
have families all over the stateand coworkers and colleagues.
That shifted those relationshipsand when that happened, I had to

(01:13:48):
decide who I was again, becauseautism and working as a behavior
analyst was such a big part ofmy life for so long.
There was a loss there and therewas a navigation of grief, with
all of the attachments that Ihad, had built up some identity
constructs that were reallystrong internally.
Who am I?

(01:14:08):
And am I beneficial to mycommunity if I am not doing this
work anymore?
I'm just gonna be a silversmiththen.
And that's it, you know.
And full desert weirdo was bornout of the desire to do more
than just create adornment.
It was the yoni ring and theexperience of tying everything

(01:14:30):
together, that ultimately mademe feel like, okay, this is
something that is more relatedto the authentic me and not the
business me or the professionalme that I thought I was supposed
to be for other people.
When I left education, one ofthe practical things that
happened was navigating that bitof identity shift.

(01:14:52):
In addition, it was a change ofan environment, right?
I've become much more of anintrovert, I would say in these
last five years of doingsilversmith work.
It doesn't require me to workwith other people.
And I like that.
A big part of Full Desert weirdois also growing things and using
plants and my herbalismknowledge, and that's another

(01:15:12):
aspect that sometimes I do wishI had help with.
As full desert weirdo grows, Iknow certain parts of my
business, will need to embracecommunity again, and I will need
to involve other people in thethings that I'm making and
doing.

When you go through one of these transformations
that is about identity, there isa lot to navigate in terms of
what you keep and what you letgo, and sometimes friendships
and relationships fall away anddifferent practices, as you say.
You've been the kind of personwho helps other people navigate
those situations in a lot ofdifferent contexts.

(01:15:50):
Do you have that kind of supportas you navigate these things in
your life?

I do, I do, I would say it's mostly
through Sadana, so it's like aninternal process.
But also the guide that I relyon for that.
Her name is Tara and, she's animportant person for me in terms
of feeling well resourced andmoving forward just in general
in life.
She's further along on the Rivipath than I am, even though I'm

(01:16:18):
quite experienced and it's noteasy for me to work with
teachers.
She doesn't even like the wordteacher and she's also queer, so
like that feels really good too.
There's like you know, When wefirst met I explained why I felt
like I needed one-on-onesupport, and I was like, I have
issues with educational traumaand authority and paying money
for spirituality.

(01:16:39):
And she really was able toanswer all those questions or
deal with them in a way thatfelt like, yeah, this is my
person.
Since then I've been able tonavigate really well in terms of
that practice.
And that practice has also beena central source of support.
I also am really lucky to livewith my best friend right now.
We met during Medicine Mandaladuring the apprenticeship, and

(01:17:00):
her family is going through somuch too right now.
And so she's getting ready totransition back to care for her
mom in California.
But.
It's been really lovely theselast six months because she
works for GoFundMe but worksfrom home obviously.
And so, is also quite a, a bitof a hermit.
And so we have this beautifulrelationship where once we want
to socialize, we can, if theother person's available.

(01:17:23):
But most of the time it's like aparallel play kind of a thing.
We like knowing that each otheris here, but we're not
interacting all the time, youknow?

Something I ask everyone, and I'm I'm not sure
you'll like the framing of thequestion but what kind of future
are you stretching towards fromwhere you find yourself today?

I don't often spend a lot of time
thinking about the future to behonest.
I'm not a goal planner.
Because that was such a big partof behavior analysis, to set
benchmarks, to achieve thesevery measurable things.
I did try to do that with FullDesert Weirdo in the beginning,
and it just didn't work out wellfor me.
It made me feel like I wastrying to be like everybody else

(01:18:04):
again.
and so I don't really thinkabout the future a lot, but what
I do know is that I will keepdoing things the way that I'm
doing them with an emphasis oncreativity and with an emphasis
on enjoyment and with anemphasis on my own
individuality, for as long as Ican, because that's what's
comfortable to me, and that'swhat makes my job enjoyable.

(01:18:28):
Right now I make enough money towhere I don't have to suffer and
full desert Weirdo is in areally lovely place to go
multiple directions, but I'm notquite sure yet.
It could be that I work more onherbalism.
It could be that I level up interms of casting and my
silversmith work.

(01:18:49):
I've worked with gold a littlebit and would like to do some
more of that.
I also kind of miss teaching, orI miss people.
So the idea of doing like adeath doula grief circle sounds
appealing to me too.
I also love music and makingmusic and can see myself going
down that creative path, andembedding it into a full desert
weirdo somehow, who knows.

(01:19:10):
You know, what I love about itis I don't have to have a future
necessarily.
And who even knows a full desertweirdo will like, keep going.
I might find something else thatis inspiring or makes me wanna
lean in a different directionand it's, I'm mutable man.

Another thing I ask everyone who comes on here is,
if you could gift someone alife-changing learning
experience, what would it be andwhy?

Any type of like full immersion nature
program because of the nature ofmy herbalism apprenticeship.
It was a year long.
It was many opportunities toengage in person, in circle with
other people that were sodiverse and so different in
nature, without access to ourtypical homes and things that

(01:20:00):
we're used to.
I think that's what I would wantfor people.
I would want them to be able toexperience what I experienced in
that non-traditional learningspace, which was ultimately just
permission be myself andpermission to do things
differently, uh, than howsociety teaches us or how our
parents teach us, or howreligion teaches us to be.

(01:20:23):
I would gift them that becauseit was a big, beautiful, like
origin of my current becomingstate.
It helped to launch that off andhelped to make me feel like I
had the freedom to do that formyself.

Do you think there's something specifically
about the nature context of thatthat makes it so that you can
have that permission experience?

Yeah, I believe so.
But I'm a plant person.
I think also I would say thatplants really impacted weirding
in that way too, right?
Or like that I also weird withplants, uh, because of the
nature of growing so many thingsand watching them die and
watching things change fromseason to season.
It teaches you something aboutthe nature of the different
states that we inhabit and howto change between them.

(01:21:10):
It's pretty hard not to likenature even when you're out
there without your cell phone.
Even if it was supposed to be ina punishing context, give it
enough time and everybody willloosen.
Everybody will let theirstiffness kind of relax because
nature has this wild, expansive,receptive capacity for all of

(01:21:34):
us.
It's my number one relationship.
My most holy and sacredrelationship is with the Earth
and it's growing things.

If there are people listening who have been enjoying
hearing about your journey andwhere you've come from and where
you're at, and how you've foundyourself along the way, and they
are thinking about embracingtheir own inner outlier, or
starting to go weirding, whatwould you say to encourage them?

I would say that every single person is
completely different.
There's a quote by Steven Shorein the autism community that is,
if you know one person withautism, then you know one person
with autism because everyone iscompletely different.
And that doesn't apply to justautism.
So everybody brings to the tablea unique set of skills, and

(01:22:22):
preferences and a unique beautythat is their own.
And I would just encouragepeople to find out what that is,
and embrace it.
What is it that you have thatother people don't have?
Because there is alwayssomething that you have that's
unique.

You.
That's wonderful.
It's been such a pleasuretalking to you today and getting
to know you better and findingout more about your unique
alchemy in lots of ways.
So thank you so much for beinghere.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Embrace your inner outlier: going full desert weirdo with Brittany Cole Houston | S4E3