Join Cheryl Lee - That Radio Chick on STILL ROCKIN' IT for news, reviews, music and interviews with some of our favourite Australian musicians
A fearless voice, a late-blooming guitarist, and a family-built record that says the quiet part out loud. We welcome Deborah Conway for an unfiltered tour through four decades of songs, risks, and reinvention, from early band days to a duo and marriage with Willy Zygier that has become one of Australia’s most enduring creative partnerships.
Deborah shares how performing grabbed her long before the guitar did, why her father tried to steer her away from rock and roll, and the moment a gold record changed his mind. We dig into the big swings: Rolling Stone acclaim, recording Pete Townshend’s Iron Man, singing Michael Nyman’s Prospero’s Books, and the Patsy Cline stage show that became a vessel for collective grief the day after 9/11.
The heart of the conversation is the new album, Right Wing Propaganda, a raw, two-voices-and-two-guitars statement shaped by lockdowns, culture wars, and the fraying of civil discourse. Deborah explains why they stripped away drums and keys to let lyrics and harmony carry the weight, and how cancel culture pressures artists to self-censor. Their three daughters join with luminous harmonies, turning family into an instrument and memory into melody.
We even laugh through the AI cover art saga: the software nailed Willy at once but struggled to “find” Deborah, a fitting irony for a project about identity, perception, and truth.
You’ll also hear about the Broad concert series, which brought women singer-songwriters across rock, folk, country, and jazz onto one stage, and the recognition that followed—Member of the Order of Australia, the Victorian Music Hall of Fame, and multiple Archibald portrait finals. We close with two live cuts—Always and the title track Right Wing Propaganda—that showcase warmth, edge, and the space where listeners can step in.
Stream the album, grab the vinyl or CD, and share this conversation with someone who still believes songs can make room for disagreement without losing the tune.
What have Deborah Conway and Willy Zygier been up to lately? Let's find out!
Get out when you can, support local music and I'll see you down the front!!
Visit: ThatRadioChick.com.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Still Rockin Itpodcast, where we'll have music,
news reviews, and interviewswith some of our favorite
Australian musicians andartists.
Deborah Conway has never beenone to fly away from provocation
across four decades in theAustralian music landscape from
die rounding to IT high days.
(00:22):
To catch up on podcast withother favourite artists, simply
(01:24):
go to that radiochick.com.auready.
You're with Cheryl Lee thatradio chick.
I'd like to welcome you to thisweek's episode of Rider TV.
I'm so pleased to introduce youto Deborah Conway, who's
joining us at Crabtree Studiostoday.
Coming to Adelaide for threeshows.
(01:46):
We're so pleased to have you inour town.
Thank you so much.
Lovely to be here.
We've got a brand new albumthat came out a month or so ago.
And your beautiful daughtersappeared with you on that album.
Because I'm going to ask youabout your family DNA.
When did you pick up a guitarand decide that guitar, you
know, music was your thing?
Deborah Conway (02:06):
Oh, I think I decided music was my thing way,
way before I picked up a guitar.
The guitar was like an add-onsort of further down the track.
I was 18 when I first got aguitar.
It's late.
It's actually very late.
And consequently, I am havealways been a very, you know,
moderately, less than moderatelytalented guitar player.
I mean, I you know, I I I can Ican keep the beat.
(02:28):
And I can write a song.
And Willie does all thefantastic, fancy stuff.
And I just, you know, I singalong.
I am is the bass upon which heelaborates those beautiful uh
musical fantasies on top.
But yeah, musically, I I alwaysknew that I wanted to sing and
perform.
I loved performing.
I loved to entertain people.
(02:48):
And that's kind of beensomething I've I think I've done
from like the age of four orsomething like that.
So yeah.
So you were born with it.
I th well I you know, if as asmuch as one can be born with
something like that, yes, I feltvery strongly that uh that that
pull.
But like lots of kids do thattoo.
I mean, that's a kind of astandard kid thing.
(03:10):
You want to, you know, get upin the room and just sing for
everybody.
Or you know, dad.
Not that I was ever much of adancer, not that it stopped me,
but I think that's kind of anatural thing.
And then but when I so I joineda band at 20.
Earlier, really, but the myfirst kind of formal band at 20.
And I just that's what I wantedto do.
Cheryl Lee (03:29):
Because you're not necessarily from a musical
family.
Dad was a lawyer, and in fact,he wasn't too happy about you
joining a band initially, washe?
Deborah Conway (03:36):
That's true, but he was in fact very musical.
He didn't pursue and he'dstudied.
He studied at He grew up in inthe UK and in Leeds, actually,
and he was accepted into RADA,which is the Royal Academy of
Dramatic Arts famously.
And he was accepted, and thenhe they he and his they came out
after World War II and to makehis parents happy he became a
(03:59):
lawyer.
Right.
And I think his attempts, if Ireally think about it, I think
his attempts to dissuade me froma a musical career, he was
concerned.
Cheryl Lee (04:08):
He didn't want you to be a starving artist.
Deborah Conway (04:10):
He he he was concerned.
Well he he wasn't a starvingartist, he was a he was a
successful barrister solicitor.
We were a nice middle-classJewish family, and that was a
absolutely unheard of that, youknow, his daughter would would,
you know, join a rock and rollband.
You know, what about the sexand the drugs?
I said, Yeah, well, that'sright.
The uh the bonuses.
But you know, look, he wasfine.
(04:31):
He was very emotional when Iturned around and gave him my
first gold record.
He wept.
But yes, he did initially sendme to a psychiatrist to make
sure that everything was okay.
And we decided it was my fatherwho had the problem.
Yeah, his problem, not your itwas fine.
He he was fine with my choicesin the end.
Cheryl Lee (04:50):
Good.
Well, clearly you've got somemusical talent and artists in
your DNA.
Little bit.
Deborah Conway (04:57):
My mother was the only person in her, she
tells me, I don't know if aboutthat proudly, but she tells me
that she was the only person inthe school choir that was told
to mum.
Very unfair.
They would never do that now.
No.
Cheryl Lee (05:09):
Your husband Willie, he clearly has it also, and
you've passed that DNA down toyour three beautiful daughters
who appear on this newest album.
Yes.
Are you really proud of that?
Deborah Conway (05:20):
Yes, absolutely.
They they all three of themhave been learning piano since
they were four.
We both thought they're goingto have some musical talent
because both of their parentsare musical.
It's inevitable.
What they do with that is theirbusiness, of course.
But you know, just to give thema basis in it, we thought uh,
you know, a good learning, agood grounding of uh of piano
from from an early age wouldwould work.
(05:41):
And they they all, I mean, youknow, they hated it and then
they loved it, and we'd say, Oh,we don't have to do it anymore.
And they know we want to do it.
You know, it was like don'ttell anyone.
It was one of those things, youknow, that they it was this
bargaining, whatever.
Anyway, so they can all playthe piano, they all sing
incredibly well.
They're just beautiful singers,and they all three have been uh
write songs, have written songsat some point in their life.
(06:03):
Sid started really young, shewas 16, she had a whole set of
songs together.
They had a band, they werecalled the cigarettes, or she
said z, they were called the shesaid zed.
And then, you know, Alma lateron started, she was writing
songs, and then Hetty, she got apunk band together and she was
writing songs too, and theyactually had some success in
France.
They were they were doingreally well, and she was she had
(06:25):
her band, the pinstripes, andthen she was writing solo stuff.
Alma is now a jazz singer, hasbeen a jazz singer all along,
but she was also dabbling inwriting her own material.
So she is the one, the middlechild, who has gone on to become
a professional musician.
And as a jazz musician, itactually astounds me that she
makes money.
It's wonderful.
It's wonderful.
And she is she is wonderful ifshe's been to Adelaide and has
(06:47):
wowed the audiences here to doso.
Cheryl Lee (06:49):
I can see as a mum, you are so, so proud of the mom.
Deborah Conway (06:52):
Oh, they're so extraordinary.
I mean, it's the most wonderfulsocial experiment that you
could ever embark on, and thenthey grow up and they're
completely independent from you,and you've got no idea what
they're gonna do next.
Wonderful.
Cheryl Lee (07:01):
Yay! How are we gonna fit all these years of
success and albums and into aquick half an hour?
But I thought we might justtouch on a couple of things
because you've got the memoir,so if everyone wants to know the
nitty-gritty, they should gethold of that.
Absolutely.
That is called Book of Life.
Book of Life.
And that's an audiobook, also.
It is an audiobook, yeah.
(07:22):
So get on to that.
We'll just touch on a couple ofthe other interesting things.
Well, congratulations.
Rolling Stone Australia in 88.
He said you're the bestAustralian female singer.
It's a nice accolade.
And then shortly after that,you worked with Pete Townsend of
The Who on a very interestingprogram.
Deborah Conway (07:40):
Yeah, that's right.
He was casting around forpeople to put in his musical
adaptation of The Iron Man,which was a Ted Hughes, oh kind
of a novella, I guess.
Ted Hughes was the poetlaureate once upon a time,
married to Sylvia Plath, whofamously gassed herself.
But anyway at any rate, maybebecause of him, I don't know.
It's all very scandalous.
So he had written this ametaphor for I don't not exactly
(08:04):
sure what it's about, honestly.
It's very hardy party.
It's it it is how do youexplain the Iron Man?
I mean, there's this great bigIron Man, and he comes, eats all
the farm machinery, and alittle boy tries to stop him and
then finds out that he'sactually very gentle, and then
there's a space laser dragonthat comes down and it's
substances involved.
It's enormously complex.
(08:24):
And I kind of looked at it andwent, why would he want to make
a musical like this?
But anyway, he did.
Yeah.
And apparently, well, notapparently, it was in its first
instance a double album.
I think it might have made moresense at that point.
Condensed it.
Condensed it down to one album.
It didn't make as much sense.
I mean, I read the book and itdidn't make that much sense
either, so I'm not sure that hehad much of a heart.
(08:46):
Sorry.
I'm sorry I'm being rude.
But anyway, I look famouslycast with along alongside Nina
Simone and John Lee Hooker, anduh, and and of course Pete
Townsend and recorded in his hisfamous Eelpie studios.
And it was amazing, likeplucked from you know obscurity
and not entirely obscurity,because we had had some success
(09:09):
in the UK, but we were sharingthe same record label.
We were both signed to VirginUK, and he'd seen a clip of
Doray Me in the managingdirector of Virgin's Officer,
Simon Draper, and you know, Ihad said, I want her.
So he got me.
Yeah, what happened?
And that was great.
And then in the same year, ormaybe the year after, uh,
Michael Nyman also asked me tosing a role.
(09:31):
He was the composer for most ofPeter Greenaway's films.
And this one was Prospero'sBooks, which was a singular
interpretation interpretation ofThe Tempest.
Yeah.
It's kind of confusing.
Another very confusinginterpretation.
But because Sir John Gilgudewas playing all of the
characters, which he kind ofdidn't really realize at the
(09:52):
beginning.
But anyway, it was incrediblysumptuous to look at.
Beautiful to look at.
I was asked to play the role ofJuno, the goddess, in the
marriage feast.
There was Uta Lemper and MariAngel and myself, and we're all
wearing these massiveElizabethan collars.
Yeah.
And fully dressed, unlike the150, 200 other extras on the set
(10:15):
who were completely naked,apart from you know the colours
that were, you know, pinkpenises and red arms and green
feet, and every kind of colourimaginable, and and a lot of a
lot of stuff there wagglingaround.
Cheryl Lee (10:29):
Those were the in 1990 you had draw cards and rows
of monk thorns, and then in 91,your debut solo album, String
of Pearls, won an Aria, bestfemale artist.
Is that where you and Williemet and fell in love?
Deborah Conway (10:49):
String of Pearls had been recorded, and I needed
a guitar player.
Or I needed a band, and I'dkind of got I'd filled in most
of the parts, but the guitarplayer was proving elusive.
And a couple of othermusicians, close friends of both
of us, recommended Willie.
So I gave him a call and Ioffered him this tour.
It was a very substantial tour,probably nine months worth of
(11:10):
dates.
It's only the beginning was hador was already out there.
It was climbing the charts, andDaremie was a known entity.
So he knew who I was, but hesaid to me, Oh, look, sorry, I'd
love to, but I've got a gig.
And uh and I found that soextraordinary and intriguing
that he was turning down thisenormous block of work for his
one gig.
So I I said, Okay, no problem.
(11:31):
And I hung up and uh I thoughtabout it, and I rang the next
day and I said, What if I put upmy tour for a few weeks so that
you can do your gig?
And he said, Okay.
We arranged to meet at mylittle flat in East Sting Kilda,
and he turned up at the doorand I opened it.
And I think there was just thatmoment, that flash of some
recognition.
Yeah, it was something, it wasit was something very powerful
(11:54):
and very strong andunacknowledged by both of us.
And you know, we chatted for aa long time and then he said,
Yes, let's do it.
We started rehearsal and westarted flirting and started the
tour, and we started an affair,which was terrible because we
both were with other people,which ended up, you know, we
weren't with other peopleanymore, and we became a couple,
and then we and then we startedwriting songs together, and
(12:16):
then we started breeding and hadchildren, and 17 years after
that we got married, and 17years after that again, and I
think actually we're about tocelebrate our 35th anniversary
together.
Cheryl Lee (12:28):
So uh yeah.
That's no mean feat.
No, it's not.
Put it up with each other forthat long.
Deborah Conway (12:32):
A lot of time together.
Yes, like more than most, Iwould say.
Cheryl Lee (12:35):
Exactly.
You and Willie are gonna sing asong in a little while.
We're gonna touch on a coupleother things because I really,
really love that you did alwaysthe lead role in Patsy Klein's
stage show.
Yeah.
Deborah Conway (12:48):
That was fun.
And actually I write about thatin the book because we
performed in Adelaide, we weredoing our shows in in early
September here.
So I was here on the 12th ofSeptember and and I woke up and
to Willie's phone call sayingyou've got to turn the TV on.
And I said, What's what's goingon?
I turned the TV on.
Mark Thurston - Camera Crew (13:06):
Can we go back a couple of minutes?
Yeah, the noise you make you onthe mic is really extreme.
Cheryl Lee (13:11):
Which bit do we have to go back to?
Where the television on?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Willie said, Pop the telly on.
Sorry, that was.
Deborah Conway (13:17):
So Willie woke me up on the the morning of the
12th of September.
He said, put the TV on.
I said, What's going on?
He said, just turn it on.
So I turned it on and therewere just kids' shows.
They hadn't weren'tbroadcasting it in Adelaide.
It took me quite a while beforeI figured out what was going
on.
And then, of course, you know,the horrific images of the plans
going into the World TradeCentre and people jumping out
the window.
It was horrific.
It was horrific.
(13:38):
We had a show that evening forwhich people would have bought
their tickets months in advance.
It was a full house and it waswe were all just so fragile, so
emotional.
And the the songs of PatsyKlein were actually a really
beautiful vehicle to spill thatemotion out, and it was a kind
of it was a kind of a collectivehug.
(13:58):
I'm sure that the people thatwere there would have rather
been just anywhere else.
I mean, I felt the same waybecause I just wanted to be at
home with my kids and myhusband.
But yeah, there we all were,and Patsy was uh cradling us all
in the tragedy of her tale andand the beautiful songs that she
brought into being.
So yeah, it was very uh quite athing.
(14:19):
But it was a it was a terrificshow, and I really loved I loved
being able to channel thoseincredible songs with for that
with that extraordinary singer.
She really is the one of thegreat singers of the century.
Yeah.
And yeah.
I hope I did her justice.
Cheryl Lee (14:34):
I think you did.
I think you nailed it.
Also, uh something that I thinkyou're very proud of is the
broad festival project that wentfor a few years.
Deborah Conway (14:44):
Yeah, we did that in 2005, 6, 7, 8.
We uh invited femalesinger-songwriters from a very
broad range of genres, which iswhere the title of broadcast,
well, it was a slang broad slangterm for women, and also the
the reference to how how verybroadly representative the um
the genres of music were.
And we put the five of ustogether on stage and we talked
(15:07):
about our craft and wecontributed to each other's
pieces, and you know, we had youknow the the hard rock guitar
player with a folky player witha jazzy kind of player, and it
was it was really quite amagical combination of things,
and and those concerts didreally well, and some household
names kind of emerged out of it.
Kate Millerhike was just avery, very young woman when she
(15:27):
did that, so was and and so wasClaire Bodic and Melinda
Schneider was was somewhat knownbut not very, and uh and Ella
Hooper, who had been in KillingHeidi, was launching a sort of
solo career, and Mia Dyson also,you know, I mean there were
just so many incredible,incredibly talented women.
It was a real joy to share thestage with them.
(15:48):
And you know, we selected thesongs that we wanted to sing as
a group together, and Williewas, you know, amazing, did all
these extraordinaryarrangements.
I sang them all so that theyhad them on tape to listen to.
It was an incredible amount ofwork.
We didn't do anything else foryears.
We just did that.
But it was you know it was agreat thing to do.
Cheryl Lee (16:07):
And so amazing to see women supporting women,
supporting women.
Because sometimes we don't dothat enough, I think.
Deborah Conway (16:14):
I haven't noticed that.
I've I feel like I feel likeall the women in my life have
been very lucky.
Yeah, you've are you're verylucky.
I feel lucky.
Cheryl Lee (16:22):
I wanted to also congratulate you, member of the
Order of Australia, in 2020.
Thank you.
Well deserved.
And also I'm wearing my littlepin.
Oh, there you go.
There you go.
Also, 2022, the induction intothe Victorian Music Hall of
Fame.
Yep.
That was nice and well done.
Yeah.
And something just a little bitof from left field because I've
got to stop talking and let yousing us a song.
(16:44):
But just a little bitdifferent.
Twice now you've had yourportrait as a finalist in the
Archibald three times.
I think it's three times, yeah.
Deborah Conway (16:52):
Wow.
Uh yeah, there was RosemaryValadon, that was a very long
time ago.
Esther Ehrlich and Wendy.
Cheryl Lee (16:59):
Wendy Spindler.
Deborah Conway (17:01):
She did two portraits.
I didn't like um, I didn't likethe first one.
I don't think she liked thefirst one, she did a second one.
Oh, so there's wait a minute,there's four.
Oh wow! And uh and uh LewisMiller.
And Louis Miller.
Yeah.
So it's it's fun.
People want to paint myportrait, and I love it.
I think it's amazing because Ilove the fact that you are
interpreted by someone else.
The Lewis Miller portrait wasum it's quite controversial in
(17:23):
our family.
They all thought it and he mademe look too old.
But I really liked it.
Yeah, I thought it looked uhfull of character.
And you know, forever now oncanvas.
Absolutely, it's a kind of alegitimizing kind of, you know,
here I was.
Cheryl Lee (17:38):
Yeah.
And speaking of art, I did wantto do a special mention to the
artists who did your artwork forthe new album.
Because the new album is likedelicately, you know, about AI
and its intrusion into music andthat sort of thing.
Is it ironic that it's an AI?
Deborah Conway (17:59):
We did it.
Did it?
We talked about it and uh itwas Willie's idea.
Yeah.
So he he put I love it.
He put the he put the imagesinto AI and it got him
immediately.
And we just rolled around thefloor laughing.
It was so hilarious.
It was just perfect.
But they could it couldn't getme.
And I'm like, come on, we'vegot to give it another photo,
(18:19):
another photo, another he used,I don't know, there was like
three or four different AIprograms that he used in order
to get me looking.
So pretty much, pretty much howI look.
I mean, the hair is fantastic,isn't it?
Cheryl Lee (18:32):
It's so good.
That's what got me.
Oh, hair is so amazing.
I just love it so much.
Me too.
And you and you, Willie, youjust look like the arch typical,
you know, newsreader orsomething.
Deborah Conway (18:43):
It's Natasha and Boris, you know, it's perfect.
I'll just show you the picture.
So, hey, there's the book.
What a shame.
We've got it, we've actuallygot colour ones in the car, but
anyway, you can find themonline.
Yeah, we'll overlay it andinsert them.
Cheryl Lee (18:56):
Insert them, yes.
Mark's got the technology.
Oh, yeah.
Deborah Conway (18:59):
Well done, Mark.
Cheryl Lee (19:00):
And this great cover of the new album, which we'll
just talk about really quicklybefore you sing us a song from
it.
Deborah Conway (19:06):
Sure.
Cheryl Lee (19:07):
Great fun making it.
Deborah Conway (19:08):
It's a family affair.
So right wing propaganda is thetitle of the album.
And it is a look back, I guess,on the last five very
tumultuous years of this decade.
We've we've gone through somuch.
We've we've experienced COVIDsand lockdowns and wars in so
many different parts of theworld, and AI, and the
(19:31):
intolerance of of what peopleare able to accept.
And the breakdown of just civildiscourse, I think.
And the rise and rise ofintolerance and uh I think you
know it was and my industry, thethe music industry, has become
quite intolerant, I think, ofany any view that falls outside
(19:54):
of a very a very prescripted setof of views.
And very happy to punish peoplefor not falling within that
prescribed set of views.
You can be cancelled.
That's right.
Cancel cancel culture.
Absolutely extraordinary stuff.
And we we we it's it's touchedus quite we've been scarred from
(20:16):
it.
So these are songs you cantrust.
So these are songs you cantrust, and we have and we've
kind of lived through thisstuff, and you know, we think
these are songs that thatactually mean something.
And uh and they're strippedback, aren't they?
Right back.
We have we have recorded thisalbum, unlike most of the other
in fact, all of the otherrecords that we've made where we
always use a drummer and a bassplayer and a keyboard player,
(20:38):
and we we laden up with you knowlovely lush you know, overdubs,
etc.
But we've gone very sparse onthis.
It's just two guitars and twovocals and the addition of uh
very talented three daughters,yeah.
Who came in one day towards theend of the recording session
immediately had a fight.
Oh yeah.
Immediately, because that'stheir daughters too.
(20:59):
That's their remote.
Hilarious.
You're going, no, listen.
We're adults now, yeah.
And then sang these songs thatthey'd never heard before so
beautifully.
Made their mother weep,honestly.
Yeah, gorgeous.
And it's worth hearing.
We there there's one of thesongs we're not playing live
because I can't possibly do itjustice.
(21:20):
Yeah, it's too, it's toobeautiful.
It's called I Don't Wanna LetGo of You.
The album's available at at allthe gigs.
Yes, the album is available.
We've got vinyl.
We've haven't made vinyl since19.
I haven't made vinyl since 87,and Willie hasn't made it since
89.
So for some reason, some crazyreason, enough people got in our
ear and said, You've got tomake vinyl.
Yeah.
(21:40):
And we went and didn't makevinyl.
So please, you know, make usnot regret that decision.
Go to DeborahConway.com.
Yeah, you can go toDeborahComway.com or come to a
gear draw.
Yeah.
Cheryl Lee (21:50):
Available digitally on all the other gear.
Deborah Conway (21:52):
Absolutely, you can stream it, you can form
everything.
And there's a CD, of course.
Yeah.
Yes.
We'll we'll make some musicnow.
Cheryl Lee (22:00):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having abeautiful chat with us tonight
and sharing about your family.
I'm going to get out of thisseat and invite Willie up with
his guitar.
Fantastic, thank you.
Mark Thurston - Camera Crew (22:11):
You are listening to Still Rocking
It, the podcast with Cheryl Lee.
Cheryl Lee (22:17):
First up, an absolutely beautiful song from
the album.
It's called Always.
Deborah Conway and WillieZeger, the insanely talented and
genuinely beautiful couple,live from Crabtree Studios, and
then we're going to take theshow out with the title track
from the album, Right WingPropaganda.
(22:38):
Please enjoy.
Thank you.
Mark Thurston - Camera Cr (25:36):
Truth is a surprise.
Don't teeth the root of thecourse.
(26:36):
Don't let me baby out.
Cheryl Lee (28:53):
Thank you so much for joining me on the Still
Rocking Up podcast.
Hope to catch you again nexttime.
Get out when you can, supportAussie music, and I'll see you
down the front.
Welcome to the Still Rockin Itpodcast, where we'll have music,
news reviews, and interviewswith some of our favorite
Australian musicians andartists.
Deborah Conway has never beenone to fly away from provocation
across four decades in theAustralian music landscape from
die rounding to IT high days.
(00:22):
To catch up on podcast withother favourite artists, simply
(01:24):
go to that radiochick.com.auready.
You're with Cheryl Lee thatradio chick.
I'd like to welcome you to thisweek's episode of Rider TV.
I'm so pleased to introduce youto Deborah Conway, who's
joining us at Crabtree Studiostoday.
Coming to Adelaide for threeshows.
(01:46):
We're so pleased to have you inour town.
Thank you so much.
Lovely to be here.
We've got a brand new albumthat came out a month or so ago.
And your beautiful daughtersappeared with you on that album.
Because I'm going to ask youabout your family DNA.
When did you pick up a guitarand decide that guitar, you
know, music was your thing?
Deborah Conway (02:06):
Oh, I think I decided music was my thing way,
way before I picked up a guitar.
The guitar was like an add-onsort of further down the track.
I was 18 when I first got aguitar.
It's late.
It's actually very late.
And consequently, I am havealways been a very, you know,
moderately, less than moderatelytalented guitar player.
I mean, I you know, I I I can Ican keep the beat.
(02:28):
And I can write a song.
And Willie does all thefantastic, fancy stuff.
And I just, you know, I singalong.
I am is the bass upon which heelaborates those beautiful uh
musical fantasies on top.
But yeah, musically, I I alwaysknew that I wanted to sing and
perform.
I loved performing.
I loved to entertain people.
(02:48):
And that's kind of beensomething I've I think I've done
from like the age of four orsomething like that.
So yeah.
So you were born with it.
I th well I you know, if as asmuch as one can be born with
something like that, yes, I feltvery strongly that uh that that
pull.
But like lots of kids do thattoo.
I mean, that's a kind of astandard kid thing.
(03:10):
You want to, you know, get upin the room and just sing for
everybody.
Or you know, dad.
Not that I was ever much of adancer, not that it stopped me,
but I think that's kind of anatural thing.
And then but when I so I joineda band at 20.
Earlier, really, but the myfirst kind of formal band at 20.
And I just that's what I wantedto do.
Cheryl Lee (03:29):
Because you're not necessarily from a musical
family.
Dad was a lawyer, and in fact,he wasn't too happy about you
joining a band initially, washe?
Deborah Conway (03:36):
That's true, but he was in fact very musical.
He didn't pursue and he'dstudied.
He studied at He grew up in inthe UK and in Leeds, actually,
and he was accepted into RADA,which is the Royal Academy of
Dramatic Arts famously.
And he was accepted, and thenhe they he and his they came out
after World War II and to makehis parents happy he became a
(03:59):
lawyer.
Right.
And I think his attempts, if Ireally think about it, I think
his attempts to dissuade me froma a musical career, he was
concerned.
Cheryl Lee (04:08):
He didn't want you to be a starving artist.
Deborah Conway (04:10):
He he he was concerned.
Well he he wasn't a starvingartist, he was a he was a
successful barrister solicitor.
We were a nice middle-classJewish family, and that was a
absolutely unheard of that, youknow, his daughter would would,
you know, join a rock and rollband.
You know, what about the sexand the drugs?
I said, Yeah, well, that'sright.
The uh the bonuses.
But you know, look, he wasfine.
(04:31):
He was very emotional when Iturned around and gave him my
first gold record.
He wept.
But yes, he did initially sendme to a psychiatrist to make
sure that everything was okay.
And we decided it was my fatherwho had the problem.
Yeah, his problem, not your itwas fine.
He he was fine with my choicesin the end.
Cheryl Lee (04:50):
Good.
Well, clearly you've got somemusical talent and artists in
your DNA.
Little bit.
Deborah Conway (04:57):
My mother was the only person in her, she
tells me, I don't know if aboutthat proudly, but she tells me
that she was the only person inthe school choir that was told
to mum.
Very unfair.
They would never do that now.
No.
Cheryl Lee (05:09):
Your husband Willie, he clearly has it also, and
you've passed that DNA down toyour three beautiful daughters
who appear on this newest album.
Yes.
Are you really proud of that?
Deborah Conway (05:20):
Yes, absolutely.
They they all three of themhave been learning piano since
they were four.
We both thought they're goingto have some musical talent
because both of their parentsare musical.
It's inevitable.
What they do with that is theirbusiness, of course.
But you know, just to give thema basis in it, we thought uh,
you know, a good learning, agood grounding of uh of piano
from from an early age wouldwould work.
(05:41):
And they they all, I mean, youknow, they hated it and then
they loved it, and we'd say, Oh,we don't have to do it anymore.
And they know we want to do it.
You know, it was like don'ttell anyone.
It was one of those things, youknow, that they it was this
bargaining, whatever.
Anyway, so they can all playthe piano, they all sing
incredibly well.
They're just beautiful singers,and they all three have been uh
write songs, have written songsat some point in their life.
(06:03):
Sid started really young, shewas 16, she had a whole set of
songs together.
They had a band, they werecalled the cigarettes, or she
said z, they were called the shesaid zed.
And then, you know, Alma lateron started, she was writing
songs, and then Hetty, she got apunk band together and she was
writing songs too, and theyactually had some success in
France.
They were they were doingreally well, and she was she had
(06:25):
her band, the pinstripes, andthen she was writing solo stuff.
Alma is now a jazz singer, hasbeen a jazz singer all along,
but she was also dabbling inwriting her own material.
So she is the one, the middlechild, who has gone on to become
a professional musician.
And as a jazz musician, itactually astounds me that she
makes money.
It's wonderful.
It's wonderful.
And she is she is wonderful ifshe's been to Adelaide and has
(06:47):
wowed the audiences here to doso.
Cheryl Lee (06:49):
I can see as a mum, you are so, so proud of the mom.
Deborah Conway (06:52):
Oh, they're so extraordinary.
I mean, it's the most wonderfulsocial experiment that you
could ever embark on, and thenthey grow up and they're
completely independent from you,and you've got no idea what
they're gonna do next.
Wonderful.
Cheryl Lee (07:01):
Yay! How are we gonna fit all these years of
success and albums and into aquick half an hour?
But I thought we might justtouch on a couple of things
because you've got the memoir,so if everyone wants to know the
nitty-gritty, they should gethold of that.
Absolutely.
That is called Book of Life.
Book of Life.
And that's an audiobook, also.
It is an audiobook, yeah.
(07:22):
So get on to that.
We'll just touch on a couple ofthe other interesting things.
Well, congratulations.
Rolling Stone Australia in 88.
He said you're the bestAustralian female singer.
It's a nice accolade.
And then shortly after that,you worked with Pete Townsend of
The Who on a very interestingprogram.
Deborah Conway (07:40):
Yeah, that's right.
He was casting around forpeople to put in his musical
adaptation of The Iron Man,which was a Ted Hughes, oh kind
of a novella, I guess.
Ted Hughes was the poetlaureate once upon a time,
married to Sylvia Plath, whofamously gassed herself.
But anyway at any rate, maybebecause of him, I don't know.
It's all very scandalous.
So he had written this ametaphor for I don't not exactly
(08:04):
sure what it's about, honestly.
It's very hardy party.
It's it it is how do youexplain the Iron Man?
I mean, there's this great bigIron Man, and he comes, eats all
the farm machinery, and alittle boy tries to stop him and
then finds out that he'sactually very gentle, and then
there's a space laser dragonthat comes down and it's
substances involved.
It's enormously complex.
(08:24):
And I kind of looked at it andwent, why would he want to make
a musical like this?
But anyway, he did.
Yeah.
And apparently, well, notapparently, it was in its first
instance a double album.
I think it might have made moresense at that point.
Condensed it.
Condensed it down to one album.
It didn't make as much sense.
I mean, I read the book and itdidn't make that much sense
either, so I'm not sure that hehad much of a heart.
(08:46):
Sorry.
I'm sorry I'm being rude.
But anyway, I look famouslycast with along alongside Nina
Simone and John Lee Hooker, anduh, and and of course Pete
Townsend and recorded in his hisfamous Eelpie studios.
And it was amazing, likeplucked from you know obscurity
and not entirely obscurity,because we had had some success
(09:09):
in the UK, but we were sharingthe same record label.
We were both signed to VirginUK, and he'd seen a clip of
Doray Me in the managingdirector of Virgin's Officer,
Simon Draper, and you know, Ihad said, I want her.
So he got me.
Yeah, what happened?
And that was great.
And then in the same year, ormaybe the year after, uh,
Michael Nyman also asked me tosing a role.
(09:31):
He was the composer for most ofPeter Greenaway's films.
And this one was Prospero'sBooks, which was a singular
interpretation interpretation ofThe Tempest.
Yeah.
It's kind of confusing.
Another very confusinginterpretation.
But because Sir John Gilgudewas playing all of the
characters, which he kind ofdidn't really realize at the
(09:52):
beginning.
But anyway, it was incrediblysumptuous to look at.
Beautiful to look at.
I was asked to play the role ofJuno, the goddess, in the
marriage feast.
There was Uta Lemper and MariAngel and myself, and we're all
wearing these massiveElizabethan collars.
Yeah.
And fully dressed, unlike the150, 200 other extras on the set
(10:15):
who were completely naked,apart from you know the colours
that were, you know, pinkpenises and red arms and green
feet, and every kind of colourimaginable, and and a lot of a
lot of stuff there wagglingaround.
Cheryl Lee (10:29):
Those were the in 1990 you had draw cards and rows
of monk thorns, and then in 91,your debut solo album, String
of Pearls, won an Aria, bestfemale artist.
Is that where you and Williemet and fell in love?
Deborah Conway (10:49):
String of Pearls had been recorded, and I needed
a guitar player.
Or I needed a band, and I'dkind of got I'd filled in most
of the parts, but the guitarplayer was proving elusive.
And a couple of othermusicians, close friends of both
of us, recommended Willie.
So I gave him a call and Ioffered him this tour.
It was a very substantial tour,probably nine months worth of
(11:10):
dates.
It's only the beginning was hador was already out there.
It was climbing the charts, andDaremie was a known entity.
So he knew who I was, but hesaid to me, Oh, look, sorry, I'd
love to, but I've got a gig.
And uh and I found that soextraordinary and intriguing
that he was turning down thisenormous block of work for his
one gig.
So I I said, Okay, no problem.
(11:31):
And I hung up and uh I thoughtabout it, and I rang the next
day and I said, What if I put upmy tour for a few weeks so that
you can do your gig?
And he said, Okay.
We arranged to meet at mylittle flat in East Sting Kilda,
and he turned up at the doorand I opened it.
And I think there was just thatmoment, that flash of some
recognition.
Yeah, it was something, it wasit was something very powerful
(11:54):
and very strong andunacknowledged by both of us.
And you know, we chatted for aa long time and then he said,
Yes, let's do it.
We started rehearsal and westarted flirting and started the
tour, and we started an affair,which was terrible because we
both were with other people,which ended up, you know, we
weren't with other peopleanymore, and we became a couple,
and then we and then we startedwriting songs together, and
(12:16):
then we started breeding and hadchildren, and 17 years after
that we got married, and 17years after that again, and I
think actually we're about tocelebrate our 35th anniversary
together.
Cheryl Lee (12:28):
So uh yeah.
That's no mean feat.
No, it's not.
Put it up with each other forthat long.
Deborah Conway (12:32):
A lot of time together.
Yes, like more than most, Iwould say.
Cheryl Lee (12:35):
Exactly.
You and Willie are gonna sing asong in a little while.
We're gonna touch on a coupleother things because I really,
really love that you did alwaysthe lead role in Patsy Klein's
stage show.
Yeah.
Deborah Conway (12:48):
That was fun.
And actually I write about thatin the book because we
performed in Adelaide, we weredoing our shows in in early
September here.
So I was here on the 12th ofSeptember and and I woke up and
to Willie's phone call sayingyou've got to turn the TV on.
And I said, What's what's goingon?
I turned the TV on.
Mark Thurston - Camera Crew (13:06):
Can we go back a couple of minutes?
Yeah, the noise you make you onthe mic is really extreme.
Cheryl Lee (13:11):
Which bit do we have to go back to?
Where the television on?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Willie said, Pop the telly on.
Sorry, that was.
Deborah Conway (13:17):
So Willie woke me up on the the morning of the
12th of September.
He said, put the TV on.
I said, What's going on?
He said, just turn it on.
So I turned it on and therewere just kids' shows.
They hadn't weren'tbroadcasting it in Adelaide.
It took me quite a while beforeI figured out what was going
on.
And then, of course, you know,the horrific images of the plans
going into the World TradeCentre and people jumping out
the window.
It was horrific.
It was horrific.
(13:38):
We had a show that evening forwhich people would have bought
their tickets months in advance.
It was a full house and it waswe were all just so fragile, so
emotional.
And the the songs of PatsyKlein were actually a really
beautiful vehicle to spill thatemotion out, and it was a kind
of it was a kind of a collectivehug.
(13:58):
I'm sure that the people thatwere there would have rather
been just anywhere else.
I mean, I felt the same waybecause I just wanted to be at
home with my kids and myhusband.
But yeah, there we all were,and Patsy was uh cradling us all
in the tragedy of her tale andand the beautiful songs that she
brought into being.
So yeah, it was very uh quite athing.
(14:19):
But it was a it was a terrificshow, and I really loved I loved
being able to channel thoseincredible songs with for that
with that extraordinary singer.
She really is the one of thegreat singers of the century.
Yeah.
And yeah.
I hope I did her justice.
Cheryl Lee (14:34):
I think you did.
I think you nailed it.
Also, uh something that I thinkyou're very proud of is the
broad festival project that wentfor a few years.
Deborah Conway (14:44):
Yeah, we did that in 2005, 6, 7, 8.
We uh invited femalesinger-songwriters from a very
broad range of genres, which iswhere the title of broadcast,
well, it was a slang broad slangterm for women, and also the
the reference to how how verybroadly representative the um
the genres of music were.
And we put the five of ustogether on stage and we talked
(15:07):
about our craft and wecontributed to each other's
pieces, and you know, we had youknow the the hard rock guitar
player with a folky player witha jazzy kind of player, and it
was it was really quite amagical combination of things,
and and those concerts didreally well, and some household
names kind of emerged out of it.
Kate Millerhike was just avery, very young woman when she
(15:27):
did that, so was and and so wasClaire Bodic and Melinda
Schneider was was somewhat knownbut not very, and uh and Ella
Hooper, who had been in KillingHeidi, was launching a sort of
solo career, and Mia Dyson also,you know, I mean there were
just so many incredible,incredibly talented women.
It was a real joy to share thestage with them.
(15:48):
And you know, we selected thesongs that we wanted to sing as
a group together, and Williewas, you know, amazing, did all
these extraordinaryarrangements.
I sang them all so that theyhad them on tape to listen to.
It was an incredible amount ofwork.
We didn't do anything else foryears.
We just did that.
But it was you know it was agreat thing to do.
Cheryl Lee (16:07):
And so amazing to see women supporting women,
supporting women.
Because sometimes we don't dothat enough, I think.
Deborah Conway (16:14):
I haven't noticed that.
I've I feel like I feel likeall the women in my life have
been very lucky.
Yeah, you've are you're verylucky.
I feel lucky.
Cheryl Lee (16:22):
I wanted to also congratulate you, member of the
Order of Australia, in 2020.
Thank you.
Well deserved.
And also I'm wearing my littlepin.
Oh, there you go.
There you go.
Also, 2022, the induction intothe Victorian Music Hall of
Fame.
Yep.
That was nice and well done.
Yeah.
And something just a little bitof from left field because I've
got to stop talking and let yousing us a song.
(16:44):
But just a little bitdifferent.
Twice now you've had yourportrait as a finalist in the
Archibald three times.
I think it's three times, yeah.
Deborah Conway (16:52):
Wow.
Uh yeah, there was RosemaryValadon, that was a very long
time ago.
Esther Ehrlich and Wendy.
Cheryl Lee (16:59):
Wendy Spindler.
Deborah Conway (17:01):
She did two portraits.
I didn't like um, I didn't likethe first one.
I don't think she liked thefirst one, she did a second one.
Oh, so there's wait a minute,there's four.
Oh wow! And uh and uh LewisMiller.
And Louis Miller.
Yeah.
So it's it's fun.
People want to paint myportrait, and I love it.
I think it's amazing because Ilove the fact that you are
interpreted by someone else.
The Lewis Miller portrait wasum it's quite controversial in
(17:23):
our family.
They all thought it and he mademe look too old.
But I really liked it.
Yeah, I thought it looked uhfull of character.
And you know, forever now oncanvas.
Absolutely, it's a kind of alegitimizing kind of, you know,
here I was.
Cheryl Lee (17:38):
Yeah.
And speaking of art, I did wantto do a special mention to the
artists who did your artwork forthe new album.
Because the new album is likedelicately, you know, about AI
and its intrusion into music andthat sort of thing.
Is it ironic that it's an AI?
Deborah Conway (17:59):
We did it.
Did it?
We talked about it and uh itwas Willie's idea.
Yeah.
So he he put I love it.
He put the he put the imagesinto AI and it got him
immediately.
And we just rolled around thefloor laughing.
It was so hilarious.
It was just perfect.
But they could it couldn't getme.
And I'm like, come on, we'vegot to give it another photo,
(18:19):
another photo, another he used,I don't know, there was like
three or four different AIprograms that he used in order
to get me looking.
So pretty much, pretty much howI look.
I mean, the hair is fantastic,isn't it?
Cheryl Lee (18:32):
It's so good.
That's what got me.
Oh, hair is so amazing.
I just love it so much.
Me too.
And you and you, Willie, youjust look like the arch typical,
you know, newsreader orsomething.
Deborah Conway (18:43):
It's Natasha and Boris, you know, it's perfect.
I'll just show you the picture.
So, hey, there's the book.
What a shame.
We've got it, we've actuallygot colour ones in the car, but
anyway, you can find themonline.
Yeah, we'll overlay it andinsert them.
Cheryl Lee (18:56):
Insert them, yes.
Mark's got the technology.
Oh, yeah.
Deborah Conway (18:59):
Well done, Mark.
Cheryl Lee (19:00):
And this great cover of the new album, which we'll
just talk about really quicklybefore you sing us a song from
it.
Deborah Conway (19:06):
Sure.
Cheryl Lee (19:07):
Great fun making it.
Deborah Conway (19:08):
It's a family affair.
So right wing propaganda is thetitle of the album.
And it is a look back, I guess,on the last five very
tumultuous years of this decade.
We've we've gone through somuch.
We've we've experienced COVIDsand lockdowns and wars in so
many different parts of theworld, and AI, and the
(19:31):
intolerance of of what peopleare able to accept.
And the breakdown of just civildiscourse, I think.
And the rise and rise ofintolerance and uh I think you
know it was and my industry, thethe music industry, has become
quite intolerant, I think, ofany any view that falls outside
(19:54):
of a very a very prescripted setof of views.
And very happy to punish peoplefor not falling within that
prescribed set of views.
You can be cancelled.
That's right.
Cancel cancel culture.
Absolutely extraordinary stuff.
And we we we it's it's touchedus quite we've been scarred from
(20:16):
it.
So these are songs you cantrust.
So these are songs you cantrust, and we have and we've
kind of lived through thisstuff, and you know, we think
these are songs that thatactually mean something.
And uh and they're strippedback, aren't they?
Right back.
We have we have recorded thisalbum, unlike most of the other
in fact, all of the otherrecords that we've made where we
always use a drummer and a bassplayer and a keyboard player,
(20:38):
and we we laden up with you knowlovely lush you know, overdubs,
etc.
But we've gone very sparse onthis.
It's just two guitars and twovocals and the addition of uh
very talented three daughters,yeah.
Who came in one day towards theend of the recording session
immediately had a fight.
Oh yeah.
Immediately, because that'stheir daughters too.
(20:59):
That's their remote.
Hilarious.
You're going, no, listen.
We're adults now, yeah.
And then sang these songs thatthey'd never heard before so
beautifully.
Made their mother weep,honestly.
Yeah, gorgeous.
And it's worth hearing.
We there there's one of thesongs we're not playing live
because I can't possibly do itjustice.
(21:20):
Yeah, it's too, it's toobeautiful.
It's called I Don't Wanna LetGo of You.
The album's available at at allthe gigs.
Yes, the album is available.
We've got vinyl.
We've haven't made vinyl since19.
I haven't made vinyl since 87,and Willie hasn't made it since
89.
So for some reason, some crazyreason, enough people got in our
ear and said, You've got tomake vinyl.
Yeah.
(21:40):
And we went and didn't makevinyl.
So please, you know, make usnot regret that decision.
Go to DeborahConway.com.
Yeah, you can go toDeborahComway.com or come to a
gear draw.
Yeah.
Cheryl Lee (21:50):
Available digitally on all the other gear.
Deborah Conway (21:52):
Absolutely, you can stream it, you can form
everything.
And there's a CD, of course.
Yeah.
Yes.
We'll we'll make some musicnow.
Cheryl Lee (22:00):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having abeautiful chat with us tonight
and sharing about your family.
I'm going to get out of thisseat and invite Willie up with
his guitar.
Fantastic, thank you.
Mark Thurston - Camera Crew (22:11):
You are listening to Still Rocking
It, the podcast with Cheryl Lee.
Cheryl Lee (22:17):
First up, an absolutely beautiful song from
the album.
It's called Always.
Deborah Conway and WillieZeger, the insanely talented and
genuinely beautiful couple,live from Crabtree Studios, and
then we're going to take theshow out with the title track
from the album, Right WingPropaganda.
(22:38):
Please enjoy.
Thank you.
Mark Thurston - Camera Cr (25:36):
Truth is a surprise.
Don't teeth the root of thecourse.
(26:36):
Don't let me baby out.
Cheryl Lee (28:53):
Thank you so much for joining me on the Still
Rocking Up podcast.
Hope to catch you again nexttime.
Get out when you can, supportAussie music, and I'll see you
down the front.
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