October 12, 2023 • 60 mins
Ever been curious about the intricate relationship between perception, representation, and the Black experience? You're in for an enlightening ride with my guest Matthew Speamer, a curious mix of a stand-up comedian and dedicated teacher, who takes us through his personal journey. We delve into his evolution towards self-acceptance, and his incredible work in educating young Black and brown children. He gives us some profound insights into changing the negative perceptions associated with Black youth, emphasizing the importance of self-perception and representation.
Have you ever thought about the pervasive influence that media, particularly hip-hop and sports, has on your life? I probe deep into this complex terrain with Matthew, exploring the potential negative impacts of false narratives spread by celebrities and the power of social media in shaping our understanding of success. Reflecting on the past and present societal sensitivities and priorities, Matthew offers an engaging comparison. We also tackle some heavy issues, including generational trauma experienced by Black people, its impact on everyday life, and the powerful concept of Black joy as a form of resilience and resistance.
About Matthew Speamer:
Speamer became the CUE Community Fellow with Homewood Children’s Village in March 2022. He works with the nonprofit to provide educational services and learning support for youth and their families in Homewood. The first project he worked on was Learn and Earn, a summer youth employment initiative. Speamer coordinated with parents and organizations across Pittsburgh’s East End to ensure meaningful experiences for students. “The kids loved it, working a job and learning something they’re interested in,” Speamer said of the Learn and Earn program. “I think the parents would agree that it was a great experience.” Now he is initiating a pilot of the Village Learning Hub, which will provide an equitable support system for families who are homeschooling. Speamer says working with youth is what drives him in his work to improve urban education. “Kids have that light within them, and I think we should nurture and support that,” he says. “If we can do that the right way, generationally speaking, we can make the world a better place.”
Show Credits:
Richard Dodds (Host/Producer): @Doddsism
Show Music: @IAmTheDjBlue
Podcast Website: StillTalkingBlack.com
Still Talking Black is a production of Crowned Culture Media LLC. All rights reserved.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Still Talking Black, a show where we discuss
issues affecting blackness froma black point of view.
I'm your host, richard Dyes,and, as some of you can see,
this is the second time aroundStill on the camera, still on
YouTube, and if you haven't ifyou haven't checked me out on
YouTube, please check us out.
You can find it at YouTube, atStill Talking Black, and all of
(00:20):
the episodes from season twowill be posted on there, as well
as the other podcast selections.
So Apple Podcasts, spotify,wherever you listen to your
podcast, you can listen to itthere.
But if you want to see mybeautiful face, you can find me
on YouTube.
So on this episode, I'm joinedby Matthew Spiemer.
He's an educator, he also is acomedian, and we talk about a
(00:42):
various amount of things dealingwith the black youth how we can
help change the perspective ofhow some people see them, how we
can help raise them in a properway, give them the education
that they need in order tosucceed in this world, and how
some celebrities and sports andmusic affect the way that people
see the black community, aswell as the way we see ourselves
(01:03):
.
So, without further ado, Goodevening.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My name is Matthew Spiemer, elevator pitch.
I am an aspiring stand-upcomedian.
I do improv once a week amongstthe private group and then we
go on YouTube once a month.
I am in the risk-taking phaseof my life and I pride myself on
(01:27):
being an educator, specificallywith black and brown kids.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
That's something you said.
You're in a risk-taking part ofyour life.
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Meaning.
I feel that my 20s werechallenging and it put me in a
very reserved space and I didn'twant to take any chances.
I didn't want to take any risks, just stay in that comfort zone
.
And then, the older you get,the more it's like oh wait a
second, we only have so muchtime, right.
(01:58):
But we should chase what wewant, dump that imposter
syndrome and go after the thingswe enjoy, and for me, that's
being with my family, that'sbeing with my kids, that's
stand-up comedy, it'sentertainment, it's the things
that I love doing Education,helping kids.
It's what I'm doing.
(02:20):
It's what I'm doing with thisportion of my life, this chapter
.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So what was growing up like for you?
I know we talked about yourbackground a little bit before.
What was growing up like foryou?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I lived in a predominantly white neighborhood
.
I was raised in a Jewishhousehold.
My family was middle class, myfather being African-American
and my mother being white.
There's challenges.
I think that I was by racialbackground.
When it was, there was a littlebit more of a stigma attached
(02:59):
to it compared to now where it'sideal, where we all kind of
start to look the same anyways.
So there were challengesracially, spiritually, but I by
no means had a difficultchildhood or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Was it hard for you finding your identity as a child
Like I didn't me, like you know, I grew up in.
Both of my parents are blackand I feel like I was lost, like
especially being in America.
Was it hard for you growing upbeing by racial or how did?
You find your identity throughlife.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It changed.
Growing up, I would say,through elementary school, I
didn't have very many blackfriends, even though I went to a
primary black school.
It wasn't until about middleschool where it was like, oh
snap, like I have a lot incommon with these people other
than the fact that they justlook like me, like we collected
(04:01):
the same sneakers, we watchedthe same stuff on television, we
watched wrestling, we calledeach other about wrestling every
night.
And as I got older I found moreand more that I was connecting
with really more on the blackside than the white side.
But it's not something that Iever really kept track of until
(04:23):
college.
And when you get to college youreally kind of figure out how
people are and how you arearound them.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
That's always.
That always interests me, justbecause it took me so long to
get comfortable in my own skin.
I remember my mom always toldme that not to judge a book by
color, by its cover, but shealways has taught me to make
sure that my cover matches thecontent, because people don't
always take the time to readyour book.
Right?
When you talk about being aneducator especially the black
(04:53):
and brown kids what does it mean?
Changing the perception thatpeople like when they see our
youth?
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
What it means to me is when you see a bunch of black
kids, I think society like justrunning around jumping and
playing.
I think there's a large portionof society that's going to sit
there and tell you the troublemaking or they're up to no good
or whatever, and it's likethey're just doing the same
thing any other kid would.
Right, and for me, we had someprogramming this summer called
(05:22):
Learn and Earn, where we took 11students and we brought them
into a gaming workspace.
We taught them how to designgames, both analog and digital.
And like I'm not going to frontlike trying to get a bunch of
boys to settle down at oneo'clock in the afternoon in the
summer is difficult, right, butthat's all it is.
(05:42):
It's difficult, it doesn't haveto be.
You know what I mean.
It doesn't have to start thisgreat racial divide.
So I love it and I love that Ican express to these youth that
you know, it doesn't matter howthey see you, it's how you
(06:04):
perceive yourself and how yourepresent yourself.
I think, as long as you'rerepresenting yourself with
respect, pride, a sense of honorand you're not hurting anybody,
I just do you, and that's a bigperception issue here in the US
.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Sometimes I worry that perception is almost as big
of a problem as racism, or itmight just be two things like
intertwined together, justbecause you treat people
differently based on how youperceive them.
And so like, if I see a bear,I'm gonna be way more on guard
seeing a bear than if I saw likemaybe, a German Shepherd, or
(06:41):
even like a smaller dog, sure,so what things do you think we
can do to help, like, start tochange culture?
Just because you know TrayvonMartin was in a hoodie, I wonder
if he had been not blackwalking in that same hoodie,
will he have been stillconsidered a problem?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I think both of us know that it wouldn't be the
same conversation and it's asclose to a fact as you can be
without being a fact.
And when it comes to perception, I think we just have to
normalize what people classifyas troubling behavior and it's
(07:28):
not even troubling is not theright word because that makes it
sound negative but normalizethe behavior of young kids that
just happened to be black orbrown and once that's normalized
, it's like oh wait, a second,they're just like any other kid.
Yeah you know what I mean.
It's the perception is based ona generation, multi
(07:48):
generational mental divide.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, it makes me whenever I think about this kind
of perception problem, I alwaysthink about like the trope of
the angry black woman and it'slike I hear people say like what
woman doesn't get angry?
Why does it have to be an angryblack woman, when every woman,
every person, period, man, woman, black, white or other they get
angry?
So it's like trying to shiftthose perspectives is like such
(08:15):
a big thing and I know that likeour movies and our music don't
always paint the best picture ofus.
What role do you feel likemusic and movies play and
shaping the perspective andinfluence in our youth?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
So growing up, my favorite group was Bone Duds and
Harmony because they're verylike I feel like I'm very
spiritually aligned with whatthey rap, slash, sing about, and
we're living in a time nowwhere a group like the Migos is
compared to Bone Duds andHarmony and not to take anything
(08:55):
away from that group, but it'skind of like it's such a 180
from speak content-wise and youknow there is a lot of content
that's put out there thatperpetuates stereotypes and
that's awful and more often thannot there's usually some kind
of hate keeper or you know, Ihate to say white man or woman
(09:18):
on top directing these thingsand it's probably really
difficult to turn down.
You know, some $500,000 advanceif you need the money, right.
But I also think that there isa social responsibility to
understand that the content thatyou're putting out it's
(09:40):
sometimes it's not helpful.
You know what I mean.
We live in a time where there'slike people that look up to
future and I'm just thinking tomyself, just like I just like
like yo, when did this?
And not to take away from hismusic, it's not, it's just not
for me, but it's just such anegative connotation like no
matter how you spend it, so yeah, but you're making millions off
(10:03):
of this, so it's like somethinghas to give.
But we've reached a time in theindustry where it doesn't take
a lot of creativity to put musicout.
I could, if I wanted to.
I could open my open on my FLstudio and produce something
right now and put it out onSpotify.
And now I'm a musician.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
You said FL studio.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Right, right, that's exactly I'm aging myself.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
And it's kind of great to think about one of my
favorite rappers like of thepast you know, maybe Decade or
whatnot is probably gonna beRick Ross and I've listened to a
ton, a ton of his albums and itwas one album like.
Every time his album comes outI would go and listen to it.
Go and listen to it, it got to apoint where it was a new album
(10:52):
that had came out and I went tolisten to it and I mean this is
like his 10th album, right?
He's been in the game for awhile, he's been rich for a
while, you know you talk aboutlike his house was the set of
coming to America too.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Which is not a very good movie, by the way.
No, I digress.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
This might be like that might be an unpopular
opinion, but no, I did not likethat movie either.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I hated every second of that movie.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Let it rest.
Why didn't we just leave it atone?
That would have been fine, butanyway, not to the, because I
just threw salt on the legacy ofthe first one.
I know we like going off gear alittle bit, but but anyway,
when we're talking about RickRoss, he has written, so he's
done so many albums, done somuch stuff and to get on an
album where, like it's like his10th album, he has money, he has
(11:41):
cars, he has houses, that hehas achievements and he's still
talking about selling drugs andthe same type of things that
he's been talking about foryears and years and years, it's
like how many times one can Ihear you talk about drugs?
And then, two, how many timeslike he's been caught in so many
lies.
He was a correctional officerand all of the stuff that he's
talking.
(12:01):
So it's like I mean for a hiphop, like for me growing up,
when you think about hip hop.
Hip hop is supposed to be thetruth of the people, right?
Yeah, so if, if hip hop is thetruth and you getting caught on
lies, not, not even this andRick Ross, because he probably
ain't even the most like the,the one who's done it the most.
There's so many.
All of them do it, like all ofthem do it he's up there but
(12:24):
it's like a lot, a lot of themdo it, they, they perpetrate
this personality, they that theyaren't or they aren't anymore,
and it's just like I couldn'teven listen to the music anymore
, just because it just seemedlike if you're still really
living our lifestyle, I don'tknow how you're living the other
lifestyle that you have goingon as well, and it just was so
discouraging because it's onlyso much of that kind of message
(12:48):
you can take in as an educatedblack person.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, and I wonder if it was Teflon Don.
I wonder if that's the albumyou're talking about.
But I think Rick Ross is one ofthose examples where people
just accept him as a character,almost like professional
wrestling and I think that Ithink he feeds off of that.
(13:12):
Honestly, I think he's wellaware of his place within within
rap and what's wild is when hefirst hit the scene, when Porta
Miami first hit the scene, I waslike yo, this dude's amazing.
And he wasn't.
He wasn't really talking aboutselling drugs back then he was
talking about having money andall that, but like, not not the
drugs so much.
But I think it's just acceptedthat he's a character.
(13:33):
It's kind of like how the NBAused to be sports, right but,
now it's more like entertainment.
Yeah, it's kind of like how hiphop is now.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I agree, I didn't.
I never even thought about itas a character.
I think the thing that isdiscouraging to me when we think
about these Adele rappersbecause you know, like when we
were young, like rappers werelike in their 30s and now like
weird, like once you startgetting older than rappers that
they're hot, now you kind oflook at it like whoa, but you
see them.
It's like I don't thinkeverybody knows that.
(14:04):
All of these rappers talkingabout murder and killing people
and drugs and killing people andmurders we're done it.
But you know what I mean allthese rappers talking about all
of this stuff.
I don't think that all the kidsknow that, that a lot of them
could be capping.
You know what I mean?
Like that's not even the truth,that they're being characters,
that they're trying to be to fitan image that they never really
(14:26):
live up to.
And then you have the youthlooking up.
I mean even like the thing thatthat was like you talk about
sports, like looking at JohnMoran and like seeing him being
at the pinnacle of a basketballcareer, being on the verge of
becoming an icon, and keepgetting caught for the same
thing and now he's going to missout on a bunch of money and a
bunch of opportunities becauseof it, and that's the examples
(14:48):
that we have over on our youth.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You know it's interesting.
Um, I'm actually I just decidedto purchase a pair of his
sneakers, like last week,because I typically refuse to
purchase somebody's signatureshoe if I disagree with their
kind of points of how they live.
But I truly think, like I, hehas no choice but to turn it
(15:15):
around at this juncture.
Um, the only thing because,because I'm of the opinion of
like yo, all right, first time,stupid second time come on, man,
like you can't, like you haveto be, even if you're not doing
anything illegal, which is whateverybody kind of falls on,
right?
Um, it's still stupid, right,and like yo, I don't make that
(15:41):
much money, I'm not, I don'tmake 200 mil and I'm not, I'm
not risking that, uh, for forInstagram.
This, this whole social mediathing is just, it's wild how it
just shapes our lives.
But I, I truly believe thatJabara is going to get it
together, especially since theNBA is kind of looking for a new
face to the league and if hecan really turn it around, he's
(16:03):
young, speaking of being olderthan rappers.
So I look at these basketballplayers and I'm like, oh my gosh
, like you're only like 22 yearsold, right, you make 300
million dollars a year andyou're complaining because you
got to play back to bad games,me, and while I'm like you know,
my, my basement is finished,you know what I mean like that's
a real world problem.
Yeah, um, yeah, I don't knowit's.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It's all tied to social media, which is probably
like the ultimate 2020 in ourhistory yeah, uh, social media
is such a thing, becauseeverything that goes on social
media so curated and like,sometimes like even thinking
about that.
That can be very depressingbecause it shapes the narrative
that everybody's living thisextraordinary life.
(16:46):
And then you're looking at yourpersonal life and it's not
matching up, but the only thingthat you see is just the
highlights, and it's kind of sadyeah, and, and I have to, and I
have to apologize, I meantcatch 22, not 2020, the social
media being the ultimate catch22.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Um, yeah, I'm in the middle of like a weight loss
journey myself and I'm notposting anything until maybe the
beginning of next year.
Nothing, I'm moving to completesilence other than this
conversation, um, because I justdon't want the influence,
either positive or negative, ithas to come from me yeah, so why
, why, why?
(17:26):
Why bring in the more thanlikely negative external?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
why?
Why even open it up for?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
criticism right right and and we're living in these
very passive, aggressive timeswhere people don't address
things anymore.
They leave clues, they leavebreadcrumbs and then they want
you to ask about it.
And it's, it's, it's soindirect and it's just like so
dishonest to communication, butthat that's.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
We have reached the point where that is the norm and
and it's such a, it's such adisservice, and and the world is
so connected.
Now too, you know what I mean.
And it's, and the internet iswritten.
And what did you say?
The internet, net is written,it and stone our ink.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You can't erase it, the internet, forever.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, so it's things that kids are saying and doing
now that could affect them 20years from now, right?
Right and so if we're notcareful, we don't, if we don't
start to cultivate the youth now, then they could do something
now that could be detrimental totheir future.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I'm very nervous for our future.
If I'm being honest with youand myself, I think that, just
as human beings, I think ourvalue system has changed so much
.
You know I don't know if I'm Ithink I mentioned this when you
and I first met.
You know, when they, when theydiscovered water on one of the
moons around Titan, like thatwas like a second page news, but
(18:52):
first page news was KimKardashian on a cover of a
magazine.
Yeah, and that's the norm now,like they just declassified all
that documentation about UFOsand nobody's talking about it.
Um, but that's like those arebig scientific things that can
maybe push us forward, but wedon't.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
We don't think like that, at least collectively and
I think but I think a lot ofthat has to do with what's going
on in the world, like I alwaysthink like the world is is huge,
right, but like everybody livesin their own world and and
there's so many other things,like whenever they're releasing
information about like hey guys,we don't know what this flying
object is, but it's real, andthat's on page seven and people
(19:35):
are talking about what about theeconomy?
What about murder hunters?
What about COVID?
Right about, uh, systemicracism?
What about voters?
Right, right, it's.
It's it's kind of sad that thatgets pushed all the way back,
but it's so many other, I mean,everything is big like that,
especially when you're close toit, everything seems really big
and it's like, as I mean,probably 20 years ago you had to
(19:57):
say, like aliens, oh mygoodness.
Like like flying saucers.
It would have been a big deal,but, right, I think so many
things have happened since thenthat kind of desensitized us to
the to those things, becausethere's so many real things that
are imminent danger, likevoters, rights is imminent.
You know what I mean.
If we don't get the youtheducated and and like mount it
(20:18):
up to go vote, then, like, ourdemocracy is in danger and
that's such a, that's just sucha different take than I feel
like before even talking.
Going back to athletes, Iremember Charles Barkley, his
big thing.
You remember, I don't know you,I don't know if you remember
this, and now I'm aging myself,now he's, he had that commercial
.
I am not your role model, not arole model.
Yeah, so it's like even backthen, like compared to like what
(20:42):
they said about Charles Barkley.
Think about, he's a belovedcharacter, basically a character
on sports tv now, and likecomparing him to like what
people are going through now,it's just.
It's just like been such.
The world has changed so much.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think that that's a .
I think that that's a veryquality argument to my, my, my
want for the science stuff to bebigger.
There are.
There are problems that we facetoday that are absolutely more
immediate.
I think it's the I think it'skind of like the nerd in me that
that wants so much to have likethe unseen be discovered, like
(21:19):
I'm a sucker for that stuff.
So you're, you're, you're athousand percent correct about
that.
You know.
You take what is it?
Where is that?
Michigan, where there's stillno clean drinking water?
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I'm talking about Flint.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Flint right, and you know, I don't even know if they
brought that back theirmunicipal services yet, but for
a time there were none.
And that like I don't know ifyou've ever seen Robocop, but
that basically made Robocop looklike a documentary.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Right, yeah, I'm from Detroit.
Like, oh, I didn't know that.
Okay, I have seen Robocop.
Ok, so you see Robocop.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
OK, all right, so so, but that's the reality now and
it's not being addressed, or notbeing addressed sufficiently.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think some of the scariest things is is that it's
TV shows that I used to watchduring, like you know, 2020.
It was TV shows that I waswatching about, you know, most
political intrigue and differentthings, that about stuff that's
happening like the president'scolluding with Russia, and this
was TV and it got to a pointwhere the government stuff that
(22:24):
was happening in the governmentin the world was mirroring too
closely to stuff that I thoughtwas so far fetched that it could
never happen.
It was one of the scariestthings ever.
And it kind of read.
It kind of likerecontextualizes everything that
you think about, because it'slike these things that people
wrote as fiction and not evenjust regular fiction.
It's like far fetched fiction,this can never happen.
And then it happens and it'slike wow, like this is mirroring
(22:48):
the things that we said cannever happen, as far fetched.
It makes you just really thinkabout the way you see the world
going forward.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I think the scariest example of that was a film
called Idiocracy.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I heard that film.
I haven't I haven't seen itthough.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
It's so.
It is so close to where we arenow and actually the, the other
movie with Leonardo DiCaprio,the, the don't look up, but
that's more like a satire thatit was.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
So on point.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Right Right.
There were very few things inthat movie where I was like that
seems extreme.
We, we, you know, we're livingthat now.
And that's what makes me scaredfor the future, because I don't
see it how I pray it does, butI don't see it improving, at
least within a generation.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, you want to have hope, I think after.
I think like Obama beingpresident for eight years and
then not being president anymore.
And then what followed was verysobering, because when he ran
on hope and he won, it was likewow, things are really different
now, things are going to change, we're going to be moving
forward.
And then we just was like no,just kidding Psych, it is not.
(23:58):
We're not moving forward, we're, we're going all the way back.
But I mean still, even withObama, I think it's beautiful,
like just recontextualizing on ayouth Me even being an adult
when he won, it just was likewow, like I can see it now, like
a black man being president,that is incredible.
(24:19):
It's something that you neverthought was.
That's like one of those thingsI mean in the same sense, kind
of it's like one of those thingsthat was far fetched.
We had seen it on TV, we hadseen in movies.
Morgan Freeman had been thepresident before I'm a new
Morgan Freeman right, but it'sseen in real life, just made it
so much real and made it sodifferent.
And then, finally, because whenwe started talking about like
(24:42):
you don't have to tell a blackperson what they can be and what
their limitations are, youdon't have to verbally say it
because the world consistentlyshows them every day, and so to
see that that window broken wasbeautiful.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I think also, I think seeing the Obamas together as a
family unit, I think thatinspired a lot of hope, even
outside of the presidency,because that's something to
strive for right.
I consider that legitimate, alegitimate example of being a
(25:19):
world model.
But we were lucky because thatwas a mainstream example.
It took the office of thepresident for black people to
see hope I hate to call it hopebut for the world to see oh,
wait a sec, we can do this.
(25:39):
So when they left office, Ithink that there was just like
this big piece of what we lookedup to and what we strive for
that was just taken away, takenaway from the public eye.
And yeah, of course they'restill there and of course
they're still doing great things, but they're not front and
center anymore.
So now we kind of revert backto role models more centered
(26:01):
around the entertainmentindustry, which is no good.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
No, because I mean, like you said, a lot of them are
characters, exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'm embarrassed because outside of, like Neil
deGrasse Tyson, I can't reallythink of any, but I'll follow
closely.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
that happens to be black, yeah, that's a fair point
, that is a fair point.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Or at least let me rephrase outside of my
profession, my personalinterests are very few Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I love that you're talking about science, because
that's one of the things that Ilove growing up as a kid and I
know you work in severaldifferent things.
I know you're a part of anonprofit called Homewood.
Homewood's your top.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, so what are some of the things that you're
doing at Homewood?
We talked about it before, butnot on air.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
So it was like what's going on there?
So we did the summer programmingwhich was called Learning in
there, and that's what I wasexplaining to you before.
That was a gaming work site.
Moving into the school year Iwill be moving into a different
position.
I'll be a middle school programmanager at a high school called
Westinghouse, for sixth toeighth grade, and between now
(27:12):
and, I think, the end ofSeptember, we're being tasked
with creating programming tomake these kids as academically
successful as possible, but alsodoing so in a very intentional
way.
The way the state has theseguidelines set up is so bare
minimum.
It's so set up for them to justdo just well enough to pass
(27:34):
standardized testing so theschool can get its funding, and
then let's ship the youthsomewhere else and let them be
somebody else's problem.
So I know a lot of myprogramming is going to be
centered around entrepreneurialspirit, just chasing your dreams
, and a big, big piece of it ifI can design it the right way is
(27:55):
getting over that impostersyndrome that I know faces all
of us, because we have a societytelling us to your point what
we can and cannot do.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, we definitely do.
Just to put it so far, peopleare unfamiliar with Homewood.
What's the full title?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Homewood Children's Village.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Can you explain what it is and what this mission is?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Sure.
So it is a non-profit based inHomewood in Pittsburgh,
pennsylvania, and we serve theyouth in that immediate area,
actually youth families, friends, whoever counterparts.
We improve their lives, if iteven needs it, educationally
speaking, economically speaking,mentally, emotionally.
(28:41):
We offer many differentservices, kind of centered
around support.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
So why do you think it's so important to start with
a single neighborhood, toconcentrate on one area?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, because you have to start with what's in
front of you, like right, to getto the big picture.
You still have to take thosesteps and Homewood, speaking of
perception, doesn't have a verygood perception, but to me
that's BS, because I'm in andout of Homewood every day and I
(29:16):
felt nothing but support.
You know what I mean.
So I take it personal when youknow someone says, well, I'm not
going through there and ofcourse there's unsafe places
everywhere, right, but you knowI take that stuff personal, what
you know when neighborhoods areseen a specific way.
So you know what this is.
(29:39):
This is where fate has broughtme.
I'm in a position where I can,I have some creative freedom
over the programming that I do,which is something that I've
been striving for for a verylong time.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, I kind of think about the way that America has
made a lot of other countriesfeel unsafe and, like you know,
kind of like as a as a growingup, you know like nowhere is
safe.
Nowhere is safe.
This country is bad.
Africa as a whole is bad.
Like all of all of Africa isbad.
It's like no good places inAfrica.
And you know, before, like theinternet really started, you
(30:14):
know the game traction, youdidn't necessarily know what to
believe and now you look at itand it doesn't even make sense
for the rest of the world to allbe bad, except for America.
Right, just because it's likeI'm from, I grew up in Detroit
and the thing is like, likepeople think about Detroit, oh,
you made it out, how'd you makeit out of Detroit safe?
Why?
Because that's a reputation.
(30:35):
But you know, just like anyother city like I mean, I can go
down to Miami and if I go offthe wrong path, like Miami gonna
look just like Detroit and bejust as dangerous as places in
every big city that aredangerous and just like the
world.
So like whenever you can take alike an area and change it,
recontextualize it and say likehey, look at this, it's not what
(30:56):
you think it is.
I think that's that like thatis just the perfect, the perfect
.
It's just a similar thing.
I said like hey, black people,we are, we, we are many things,
not just one thing.
And like starting aneighborhood, that's beautiful,
trying to change the way thatpeople look at that neighborhood
.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I also enjoy.
You know you talk about lovingscience.
I also enjoy coming in fromthat angle and speaking about
that, because it's not, you know, it's not what the cool kids do
, I guess, or whatever.
But I love coming in talkingabout comic books, video games,
stuff that a lot, of, a lot ofyoung men and men and women
don't aren't comfortable talkingabout because they're scared.
(31:38):
They're.
You know, there will be seen aspecific way, but I come in
there all geeked out, all nerdout and I'm like who cares what?
Who cares what people think?
Follow your passions to like,do the things you love, right.
And I think you know, granted,it's home within the beginning,
(31:58):
but if it ends up just beinghome, what I'm good with that
because that's what I set outfor.
You know, pittsburgh is my home.
Of course that's not the endgoal, but I'm doing good things
and I eat.
You know I sleep peacefully,you know.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
That's awesome, so, as education, the way that we
help influence the youth andmake a better world for them it
doesn't start with education oras there are other other factors
that we got to add into thattoo.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
It starts with education, but it has to be
intentional Education.
As it stands now, it's very,very scattered and very, very,
you know, funding oriented.
I even for myself, like I don'teven think they didn't even
teach me how to balance acheckbook until, like my senior
(32:50):
year, high school, you know,none of my teachers sat me down
to talk to me about credit,credit management or purchasing
properties, things like that,like real world expertise, real
world experiences.
I honestly also think it shouldbe mandatory that our youth
(33:11):
work a retail job at some pointin their life.
Like I think that is how youlearn people skills, what you
know, it's sink or swim in thatarena, right, and we've all
worked jobs we hate.
And I look back sometimes andI'm thinking like yo, I took
three buses to get here to make925 an hour.
(33:32):
I hated this.
And now, whenever I feel likeI'm going to fail at something,
I think back to that and Iremember, like how hard I used
to have it and how I'll neverallow myself to go back to that.
I think that's also why I'm inthis in this phase now, because
(33:53):
my father passed away when I was20, oh, 27, 25 or 27, I can't
remember, and that kind of justlike I'm still real from it.
You never really get over thatright, and that was the hardest
time in my life and now when I'm, when I think I'm going to fail
, I think back to that and Ithink I'll never allow myself to
(34:16):
get like that ever again.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Ever you use that to give you strength, that if you,
if you can survive and getthrough that situation, you can
survive and get through whatyou're going through now.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
That's, that's kind of.
That's an amazing thing to takea loss and use it as a strength
.
I think that's that's beautifulyeah.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I appreciate you saying that I am, you know, my
mom's still alive lesser heart.
My parents put a lot of time,love, effort into into where I
am now.
I'm not going to eat, you knowwhat I mean.
I'd be doing them a disserviceto not not do everything I can.
I have kids looking up to me, Ihave.
I have people around, likearound me.
(35:02):
You know that I love and theylove me.
I'd rather build.
Build from that, knowing thatI'm making my family proud,
making my work, specifically myfather, proud.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Gotcha.
No, that's.
That's great.
It's something about havingthat pride to to build on likes.
For some people, as women youknow are like their mate.
You know what I mean.
Some people is their parentsand I think that I think that's
one of the things that's lost.
You don't see that as much aslike I'm doing this to make my
family proud.
You know what I mean.
Like I feel like part somethings like you got to do for
(35:35):
yourself, but it's like italways.
For me it's always been thatextra motivation.
It's like I want to make my momproud or my dad proud or my
wife proud.
It always gives me that muchmore motivation and strength to
continue on doing what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You know it's wild about that concept.
One of my closest friends putit to me the best way we try so
hard to make our parents proud,but our parents are already
proud of us.
So why do we do that?
Why do we chase that?
And I don't, I don't have ananswer to that.
But if someone asked me well,Matt, what do you do for
yourself?
I don't know.
(36:10):
I don't have a concrete answer,I just don't.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
That's true, that's fair point.
This is like thinking and liketrying to answer that question,
even for myself, is hard, like,probably this is one of the
things.
This podcast is one of thethings I do for myself, but
really not at the same time.
I mean, like I want to learnmore about blackness.
I want to spread, like, theword about blackness, have more
understanding told aboutblackness and as we talk, as we
(36:39):
continue to talk about the youth, one thing that I thought was
important for me is like asseeing how the world has been
the last, like you know, lastfew years, or even the last five
, six years, seeing how theworld has been, one of the
things that's been so importantis media and the way that I mean
not outside of even movies andtelevision the way that, like in
(37:01):
the news, the thing that'ssupposed to really be impartial,
the way that black people areportrayed in the news, even the
way that women are portrayed inthe news, is such a big
difference to the way thatsomeone black is talking about.
Like I always say, it's like theblack person could be the
victim and they'll talk to themlike they're the perpetrator and
(37:22):
it's like I remember, like aninstance where a young man he
had got shot and killed in hisown home about off duty police
officer and they were lookingfor every anything that they
could find to like the, to makeit justified that this black man
was murdered.
It's like, oh, he had weed inthe house and it's like, ooh,
yeah, right, he should have diedbecause of that.
(37:43):
Right now it's just they.
It's so unfair.
You could almost read aheadline, read a crime.
Read a headline.
Read the first couple sentences.
You can tell if that is a blackor white person, who is the
victim or the perpetrator.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Oh, that's, it's easier than that, because it
usually says white cop killsblack youth or black cop kills
white youth.
It's never cop kills youth.
It's flagged to create clicksand cause further division.
It's all intentional and it'ssad.
(38:24):
It's sad because, again, I amdefinitely an optimist by nature
, but I don't see how thischanges as long as we maintain
the just kind of like thecapitalistic nature of of you
know how we are.
I mean, you got to figure ithasn't been.
I remember when we celebratedChristopher Columbus Day, like
(38:47):
in school, right, and it waslike a whole.
You know, we make turkeys andall this.
You know paper turkeys and allthat, and now it's like, oh wait
, a second, it wasn't, it wasn'tso, so, so clean.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Honestly celebrate that Right.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
And that's literally history being rewritten Right.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
In our lifetimes.
In our lifetimes.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I never dreamed of that.
And we're also living in a timewhere, you know, people denied
a Holocaust, people say slaverywas involuntary displacement or
something along those lines.
You talk about Texas, yeah,yeah, so it's.
But this is real.
Like bro, like I laugh at stufflike this because like if I, if
(39:38):
I, if I was speaking aboutgrandparents right now and I was
telling them this, they'd belike no way.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
No way.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
But it's.
But what the irony is is wehave more access to information
now than we ever did.
Yep, but we're somehow dumber.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
And I mean but the there are people who are
systematically trying to takeaway the information, right, the
truth and the history and trick.
They're trying torecontextualize it in a way that
all slavery it wasn't that badand they learned skills and
right, I don't know.
So do you want to be a slave?
Like that would be the questionthat the people saying that is
(40:15):
like all right, so you can be aslave and you can learn some
skills for free, if it's sogreat.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I just I feel like if I was in a bar is some dude
said that to me.
I'm not going to swing on him,I'm not like a, not immediately,
but it's like you know that'san argument, yeah, like I'm
saying something Like that'sthat, that opinion is just, it's
.
It's laughable to me, but it'salso kind of like 50% of the
(40:44):
country, so it's scary.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, I don't know if it's.
I'm hoping it's not 50%, I hope.
I hope it's way too close of50%.
Either way it goes.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I'm exaggerating, but it's in the 40s, I think.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah, I mean, but still that's a crazy amount to
think about.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Crazy amount of people that believe something.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Yeah, um gosh man.
There's so many beautifulthings to talk about in life,
but this, just this, hasn't beena good, um good, couple of
years.
No no, it's been a lot.
It's important to protect yourpeace, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
I mean as black people.
It's a kind of I forget whatyou call it, but it's a
collective.
It's a collective trauma thatwe all carry and it kind of gets
reintroduced with, like moviesthat come out that talk about
slavery, and then all of thenews and everything.
It's like we're constantlygetting beat down as a culture
(41:48):
and it's a toll that it takes onus continuously, every day, to
have to live through it.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, you're talking about that generational trauma
that is almost, almost, it's inour blood.
I mean it really is Literallylike, literally Literally, yeah,
and it's just again.
All I can do is help help thepeople closest to me and the
people that want help, and hopethat that causes some kind of
(42:15):
pay it forward chain and youknow, every positive.
Just keep building on that andhoping for the best, because if
you get bogged down, worryingabout the big picture too much
which is something that I do, Iget anxiety about it a lot
You'll find yourself justworrying.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Nostop.
But I mean I think I think whatyou're doing, you're doing it
the right way, thank you.
I mean you are starting at thebottom.
It's like like what was it backin our day?
It's like the children are ourfuture.
That was, that was the song.
So, the children are our future.
So you're starting with theyouth and you, and if you can
plant that seed in them, thenthey can grow up and they can
(42:52):
start planting seeds at our own.
So I think you're doing it theright way and I think what
you're doing is really, reallyimportant for the community and
the youth as a whole, justbecause one community can help
change the whole world.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
It's.
I appreciate you saying thatit's I don't know.
I love it.
I'm blessed because to me it'snot difficult work, because I
already like doing it, and Ithink kids are.
Kids are just like man, justlike fantastic, because for most
of them the world hasn't jadedthem to the point where
(43:28):
everything's you know soterrible, like they still have
hope.
Speaking of speaking aboutObama and hope like that's kind
of just in the kids at thispoint, like I feel like once you
turn like 30, any hope you have, if you still have it, hang on
to it.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
It's like that.
That two-pot client thatKendrick Lamar put in one of his
songs on his album to PimpleButterfly talked about how you
only have energy till you hitlike 30.
Like he's talking about blackyouth, the man only have energy
till they hit 30 and then it'sover.
You saying that made me thinkabout that.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
It's funny, I'm one of the few that I actually like
Mad City a lot better than toPimple Butterfly.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I probably would agree with you on that.
I think both of them are good.
It took me a while to get intoPimple Butterfly, though.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
His most recent one I really do enjoy, though I
forget what it's called.
Mr Morell and the Big Steps, Ithink yeah, I enjoy that album,
but that's kind of like more inmy vein.
I'm definitely I listen to likeLupe Fiasco.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Kendrick.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
J Cole.
I was a real, real big Joebutton man until he started
podcasting.
Now I just kind of go back andlisten to all his new music
tapes, but I like listening tointrospective music.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
No, I totally get it.
I do, like, prefer J Cole.
He's probably my favorite ofthat generation, sure, even over
Kendrick.
Just because it's hard tolisten to Kendrick's music
repeatedly sometimes, justbecause it puts me in a place.
I don't want to be J Cole.
I feel like he says stuff, buthe also says it in a way that it
doesn't take you to that darkplace sometimes and I feel like
(45:10):
Kendrick, like sometimes he's sogood at putting you in that
mode.
It's like I don't feel likeI've been political all day.
I don't want to listen to musicthat's going to make me more
political, right.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Sometimes you just want to listen to something
that's going to entertain you.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Exactly, and I think that J Cole does a better job of
like tipping that balance.
He's entertaining butinformative and he's getting his
message out.
Just kind of like you said,you're doing comedy, improv and
I always think that comedy issuch a great art just because
you can speak so much truth incomedy and people laugh and you
can make people uncomfortable,and it's like the place where
(45:47):
you can make peopleuncomfortable and laugh but also
get a point across and it'sokay to say certain things.
So like I always respect likecomedians and the art, like the
ones that are really good.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I'm still.
I'm definitely growing, but inmy mind, like I have to perceive
myself as if I walk into a room.
I have to be the funniestperson in the room and I've
certainly gone up there andbombed.
I've had jokes that I thoughtwould kill and I would just look
down and people are staring atme and you can feel like the
sweat and you can feel like yourhand getting all sweaty and all
(46:21):
that.
But my sense of humor is alsovery like I'm really.
I'm really realistic about mylife and just kind of like you
know what I expect.
So I joke about that and thatway it's like all right.
Well, if you don't think it'sfunny, I think it's funny, I'm
good with it.
I'm up here laughing, it's fun.
So, yeah, I think my favoritething in the world, other than
(46:45):
my kids, is still laugh.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
And that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's the best.
I mean, it's the best feelinghonestly.
For that, for that moment, andwhen you're laughing, nothing
else matters.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
A friend of mine who I interviewed.
He said on his episode thatBlack Joy is not.
Now I'm going to forget thequote, I can't remember.
It's not revolutionary, butsomething to that point like
like joy is something else and,like a lot of times, black Joy
starts without laugh.
To be able to laugh and topersevere through all of the
(47:16):
things that collectively, as aculture, that we have to go
through, it's like amazing tostill be able to find something
to laugh about.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
It's the mountain that we have to climb just to
gain a little bit of an edge.
Not even equity or equality,just an edge is exhausting, and
to your point.
To be able to find joy afterall of that, that's a strength,
(47:48):
that's damn near a superpower.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
That's the Black superpower.
There we go.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Right, exactly, and again, I'm blessed to be in a
decent situation financially, soI don't have to.
You know I don't.
There are people that have itso much worse than I do, but
they, man, they find joy, theylaugh.
They know they got to wake uptomorrow morning at 6am to catch
(48:16):
that bus, but they still findjoy.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So I love bro.
Like I said, man laughing is myfavorite.
Childish Gambino was anotherartist I was thinking of, that,
I think does a good job ofbalancing politics and
entertainment.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
I think he does that.
He does a great job and withouthis music and his comedy and
with his movies and televisionshows he's like, so multifaceted
and everything that he does helike.
Atlanta is probably one of myall time favorite television
shows because, like, especiallythat last season he got really
deep with some of the stuff thathe like I had to kind of go
(48:54):
back and look at some of theprevious episodes.
They all kind of tied together.
It was kind of crazy how hekind of just tied everything
together.
So like he is a great creator,somebody that like I feel like
we all kind of aspire, aspire tobe like him.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I feel that same way about Jordan Peele.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Oh yeah, jordan Peele , that's another good example.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
I feel that exact same way because his I've never
seen anything from him that Idid not like, nothing, never,
not a key appeal episode, nope,it's one of my favorite films.
Get out, love it, us love it.
He just thinks differently andI love that.
Like when I'm watching thesemovies, I just see characters
(49:34):
like speaking how you and I arespeaking but it calls attention
to it, right, like that's theone thing I can't stand in
entertainment where, justbecause somebody speaks with a
certain dialect or a certainslang.
they always find a reason tocall attention to it in film,
Whereas if you watch somethinglike across the spider verse
like yo, they're just talkingback and forth in Spanish
(49:56):
English.
Whatever they never call it,it's normalized.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Right, I get what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
And that's where we need to be, but we're not.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Now we got a long way and I think about I think we
talked about that before where,like, well, something happens to
the first black, the first this, and that I think the reason
why we still call it out is justbecause we have to pay
attention to it, because it'sbeen such a big disparity for
generations that when it happenswe have to say, hey, this is
still just the first.
(50:26):
You know what I mean.
Like I'm, in certain areas itkind of makes sense just because
this is the first like wake upAmerica, like wake up, like
humanity.
This is just the only the first.
Of all these people who comethrough like think about it.
The first like when he wasrunning for president, it was
the first he's running to be thefirst back black president.
When he won president, he wasthe first multicultural
(50:47):
president.
We changed the presentationbecause he won Right.
So there's a lot of that.
That's like Tiger Woods, yeah,exactly.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
It's like Tiger Woods , it's almost that, it's almost
like if you switched.
So, for example, if a youngblack man, I don't know, I don't
know any other milestones, butwe'll make one up Young black
man first person hired a NASA.
If you flipped it and said itlike literally.
The headline says yo, aboutdamn time you know first black
(51:19):
black person hired at NASA toshow like yo.
It's crazy that it's takingthis long.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Makes sense.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
I think, then I think it would be, it would almost be
more, more impact more of anemphasis on it took this long
right, like you, like you guyssee how crazy it is right that
you ain't never seen nobody withno Tim's on and NASA, you know,
I mean like that's, that'scrazy.
So I think if you, if youswitch it, I think that way it's
(51:49):
negative.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
You want to like recontextualize the way.
I mean that's a that's a fairpoint and like if we can make it
so that we Control more mediaor actually have more media
outlets, things that we can dolike that, then we'll be able to
actually contextualize in theway that makes sense to us.
Instead of you know, fivepeople own it, like all of the
network news television channelsand they all say the same thing
(52:13):
.
You know what I mean.
So it's one other thing that Iwanted to ask you about that we
kind of talked about and Iremember I don't remember
exactly what it was, but it wasa term and I wrote it down and I
was like this is an interestingterm, but I do not remember
what it was.
So I wanted to ask you about it.
You mentioned a term.
It was called a manufacturedconsent manufactured consent.
(52:33):
Can you break that down oh?
Speaker 2 (52:35):
oh man, I wish we had more time.
The idea of manufacturedconsent is at least how I
perceive it is.
A group of people are Giventhis idea that what they're
doing is making some kind ofimpact, mm-hmm, or making some
kind of change, when in realityit's just kind of like a
misdirection, in a way to keepthem busy Thinking that they're
(53:00):
making a change while the statusquo just continues.
I think I think when you and Ispoke, the example I used was
the NBA bubble and you knowthese, these guys.
They were t-shirts with amessage on the back, and that's
a good thing, right, but at theend of the day, they had no
control over what the messagewas.
It still had to be approved bysomebody above and, and if it
(53:25):
were me, if I wanted to makeactual change, I would say
listen, I'm worth $400 millionto this franchise.
I'm not dribbling anotherbasketball.
I will give up my paycheckUntil I see X or Y change, right
, but that doesn't really happen.
So that's why I like when I seea lot of these athletes get
(53:48):
compared to like Muhammad Ali orsomebody like that.
Yeah, it's just like I don'teven understand how you can say
that I.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Think the closest thing I've ever seen to that
where somebody actually spoke up, would and protest it, and you
see how well that went yeah yeahand and and I have mixed
feelings about him.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
I have the utmost respect for what he did, but he
was still.
He was still getting a checkfrom Nike on the back end the
entire time.
So I take a little bit issuewith that, but it took guts for
what he did.
Then.
The irony is is the originalknee was misinterpreted to begin
with.
Yeah, like, and he's yo, helooks like me, like yo, I
(54:28):
thought.
I thought I thought I was like.
Ones were supposed to be likeless threatening you know what I
?
mean, that's what they told me.
And the only thing I don't likeis is that everyone said give
him a shot, give him a shot, buthe was playing trash before
that and nobody talks about that.
Everyone says he's blackball,but he wasn't a good quarterback
(54:51):
at the time to begin with.
So it gave it gave a lot ofthese owners a really good
justification.
They didn't have to, theydidn't have to say race, even
though a lot of it was race.
They could just say I mean,he's not playing well.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
I mean by that time I stopped watching football and I
know he had just been to theSuper Bowl like not that many
seasons ago.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
I was like three and it'd be fair and it'd be fair.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
He was a starting quarterback and he actually did
win a lawsuit against the NFLfor undisclosed amount of money,
right for being black ball.
So like it's a, it's a littlebit.
It's a little bit in that too,so it's something.
But it takes so much courage.
She really speak out.
I mean even like, just talkingabout sports.
He's talking about like, like,think about Kyrie Irving and how
(55:36):
he was victimized, like theythey were, like they talked
Christ so much crap about him.
All he doesn't want to get thevaccine he would like for him.
It was like I don't, I don'tremember if it was religious or
just the way that he felt.
He just basically said, likeI'm not doing this and if I got
to sit out, I'm gonna sit out.
Then you have somebody on theother side and football you have
and Rogers and Rogers said thathe was.
(56:00):
Vaccinated and yeah, and thenlike the way they responded to
him when they because it wasprotocols, the NFL had protocols
.
He's like you don't have to bevaccinated, but if you're
vaccinated you can do this, thisand this, but if you're not,
you can't do any of this stuff.
You can only do this.
And he was participating inthings like he was vaccinated.
It came out that he was notvaccinated and Everybody's like,
(56:24):
okay, yeah, and it's like KyrieIrving is sitting there and
they're like, oh, he's soproblematic, he's, he's a
troublemaker, he's doing this.
And that the way that theyPainted the picture of Kyrie
Irving versus Aaron Rogers is.
It shows how big of a dividethat there is between the way
that Black whether it's anathlete or just a person in
(56:45):
general and white are Portrayedin the media is just incredibly
different.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Look at breath oh.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
Yeah, oh yeah, bro, that's.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
nobody talks about breath bro, I think when all
that stuff happened, I think Imaybe saw one or two stories on
ESPN and that's it.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
It's like maybe NPR I .
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Even, even, even though people perceive Kyrie
Irving as anti-Semitic, I stilldon't think he's anti-Semitic.
I think he was backed upagainst the wall and when he was
forced to make a declarativestatement on whether he was
anti-Semitic or not, felt thathe didn't.
He didn't need to justify, andI'm not mad at him for that.
I've got I still buy his sneaks.
Well, he doesn't.
He.
Nike cut him, but I'm.
He's still the greatest ballhandler in the history of the
(57:32):
league to me.
He, his whole thing was.
I just think that because healready had that stigma attached
to him, he didn't stand achance.
Yeah, they're just.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
Yeah, they're gonna mind up it was just stuff and
stuff on stuff, and I mean likestuff like that.
He's an easy target and youknow, you know well, it's like
you can't.
You don't have to agree witheverything that everybody does,
and maybe it's not the rightthing, maybe, but but still like
I feel like just for that, evenjust that one specific thing,
they treated him completelydifferent than they were
somebody else.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yeah, and and into your point.
Just to repeat because I thinkit bears repeating Aaron Rodgers
lied and he's straight uppeople's health at risk because
one of those mandates was, ifyou're not, if you're not back,
saying all right, cool, werespect that.
But then you got a mask up, hey,mask up.
He lied, he put people at riskand I don't think he paid a fine
(58:25):
.
As a matter of fact, I'm prettysure there was a.
It was.
There was a lot at one pointthat if you lied about being
vaccinated in specificsituations, you actually had to
face a fine or jail time.
Speaker 1 (58:37):
Mm-hmm, I Don't remember that.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
I'll have to get back to you on that, but there's
something along those lines.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
But I don't like he.
I don't feel like he faced anyconsequence.
He, like went on a podcastonline.
I said I didn't say I was.
I said I was Immunized like youwant to know what you like you
alluded to the fact that youwere vaccinated and you did
things To show that you were inthe vaccinated group right.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
That's a lie.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
It's a straight line We'll just call.
Like, if they won't call itwhat it is, we'll call it what
is?
He lied.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
He lied We'll keep it 100.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
That's it.
He lied.
So we we come into the end ofthe interview.
Is there anything, anything,you want to add, anything you'd
like to say, anything like totalk about?
Speaker 2 (59:21):
I you know what, honestly, I just talk about.
You know, live, laugh, love.
That's it.
Stay positive, even if thatnegative creeps in, just keep
pushing.
I've been on a realmotivational kick lately.
I Replace a lot of the BScontent and I replace it with
motivational, positive content.
In slowly but surely it changesyour mindset and I encourage
(59:41):
everybody else to do the same.
Speaker 1 (59:42):
That's awesome, man.
Well, I think it's been a greatconversation.
I appreciate you coming on theshow.
Speaker 2 (59:47):
I appreciate you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (59:49):
Again, I'd like to thank Matthew for coming on the
show.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Matthew, you can find that
information in the show notes.
Still talking black is a crownculture media LLC production.
You can find out more about itat still talking black calm.
New episodes on season two willbe available on YouTube and
your regular podcast sources, sothat's Apple podcast, spotify
(01:00:11):
or whatever else you use.
Season one is still up andavailable.
You can find it on allstreaming platforms.
It's not on YouTube yet, butyou can find it everywhere else.
So please come back next week.
We'll have a brand new guestand a brand new topic, but until
then, keep talking.
This is Still Talking Black, a show where we discuss
issues affecting blackness froma black point of view.
I'm your host, richard Dyes,and, as some of you can see,
this is the second time aroundStill on the camera, still on
YouTube, and if you haven't ifyou haven't checked me out on
YouTube, please check us out.
You can find it at YouTube, atStill Talking Black, and all of
(00:20):
the episodes from season twowill be posted on there, as well
as the other podcast selections.
So Apple Podcasts, spotify,wherever you listen to your
podcast, you can listen to itthere.
But if you want to see mybeautiful face, you can find me
on YouTube.
So on this episode, I'm joinedby Matthew Spiemer.
He's an educator, he also is acomedian, and we talk about a
(00:42):
various amount of things dealingwith the black youth how we can
help change the perspective ofhow some people see them, how we
can help raise them in a properway, give them the education
that they need in order tosucceed in this world, and how
some celebrities and sports andmusic affect the way that people
see the black community, aswell as the way we see ourselves
(01:03):
.
So, without further ado, Goodevening.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My name is Matthew Spiemer, elevator pitch.
I am an aspiring stand-upcomedian.
I do improv once a week amongstthe private group and then we
go on YouTube once a month.
I am in the risk-taking phaseof my life and I pride myself on
(01:27):
being an educator, specificallywith black and brown kids.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
That's something you said.
You're in a risk-taking part ofyour life.
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Meaning.
I feel that my 20s werechallenging and it put me in a
very reserved space and I didn'twant to take any chances.
I didn't want to take any risks, just stay in that comfort zone
.
And then, the older you get,the more it's like oh wait a
second, we only have so muchtime, right.
(01:58):
But we should chase what wewant, dump that imposter
syndrome and go after the thingswe enjoy, and for me, that's
being with my family, that'sbeing with my kids, that's
stand-up comedy, it'sentertainment, it's the things
that I love doing Education,helping kids.
It's what I'm doing.
(02:20):
It's what I'm doing with thisportion of my life, this chapter
.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So what was growing up like for you?
I know we talked about yourbackground a little bit before.
What was growing up like foryou?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I lived in a predominantly white neighborhood
.
I was raised in a Jewishhousehold.
My family was middle class, myfather being African-American
and my mother being white.
There's challenges.
I think that I was by racialbackground.
When it was, there was a littlebit more of a stigma attached
(02:59):
to it compared to now where it'sideal, where we all kind of
start to look the same anyways.
So there were challengesracially, spiritually, but I by
no means had a difficultchildhood or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Was it hard for you finding your identity as a child
Like I didn't me, like you know, I grew up in.
Both of my parents are blackand I feel like I was lost, like
especially being in America.
Was it hard for you growing upbeing by racial or how did?
You find your identity throughlife.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It changed.
Growing up, I would say,through elementary school, I
didn't have very many blackfriends, even though I went to a
primary black school.
It wasn't until about middleschool where it was like, oh
snap, like I have a lot incommon with these people other
than the fact that they justlook like me, like we collected
(04:01):
the same sneakers, we watchedthe same stuff on television, we
watched wrestling, we calledeach other about wrestling every
night.
And as I got older I found moreand more that I was connecting
with really more on the blackside than the white side.
But it's not something that Iever really kept track of until
(04:23):
college.
And when you get to college youreally kind of figure out how
people are and how you arearound them.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
That's always.
That always interests me, justbecause it took me so long to
get comfortable in my own skin.
I remember my mom always toldme that not to judge a book by
color, by its cover, but shealways has taught me to make
sure that my cover matches thecontent, because people don't
always take the time to readyour book.
Right?
When you talk about being aneducator especially the black
(04:53):
and brown kids what does it mean?
Changing the perception thatpeople like when they see our
youth?
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
What it means to me is when you see a bunch of black
kids, I think society like justrunning around jumping and
playing.
I think there's a large portionof society that's going to sit
there and tell you the troublemaking or they're up to no good
or whatever, and it's likethey're just doing the same
thing any other kid would.
Right, and for me, we had someprogramming this summer called
(05:22):
Learn and Earn, where we took 11students and we brought them
into a gaming workspace.
We taught them how to designgames, both analog and digital.
And like I'm not going to frontlike trying to get a bunch of
boys to settle down at oneo'clock in the afternoon in the
summer is difficult, right, butthat's all it is.
(05:42):
It's difficult, it doesn't haveto be.
You know what I mean.
It doesn't have to start thisgreat racial divide.
So I love it and I love that Ican express to these youth that
you know, it doesn't matter howthey see you, it's how you
(06:04):
perceive yourself and how yourepresent yourself.
I think, as long as you'rerepresenting yourself with
respect, pride, a sense of honorand you're not hurting anybody,
I just do you, and that's a bigperception issue here in the US
.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Sometimes I worry that perception is almost as big
of a problem as racism, or itmight just be two things like
intertwined together, justbecause you treat people
differently based on how youperceive them.
And so like, if I see a bear,I'm gonna be way more on guard
seeing a bear than if I saw likemaybe, a German Shepherd, or
(06:41):
even like a smaller dog, sure,so what things do you think we
can do to help, like, start tochange culture?
Just because you know TrayvonMartin was in a hoodie, I wonder
if he had been not blackwalking in that same hoodie,
will he have been stillconsidered a problem?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I think both of us know that it wouldn't be the
same conversation and it's asclose to a fact as you can be
without being a fact.
And when it comes to perception, I think we just have to
normalize what people classifyas troubling behavior and it's
(07:28):
not even troubling is not theright word because that makes it
sound negative but normalizethe behavior of young kids that
just happened to be black orbrown and once that's normalized
, it's like oh wait, a second,they're just like any other kid.
Yeah you know what I mean.
It's the perception is based ona generation, multi
(07:48):
generational mental divide.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, it makes me whenever I think about this kind
of perception problem, I alwaysthink about like the trope of
the angry black woman and it'slike I hear people say like what
woman doesn't get angry?
Why does it have to be an angryblack woman, when every woman,
every person, period, man, woman, black, white or other they get
angry?
So it's like trying to shiftthose perspectives is like such
(08:15):
a big thing and I know that likeour movies and our music don't
always paint the best picture ofus.
What role do you feel likemusic and movies play and
shaping the perspective andinfluence in our youth?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
So growing up, my favorite group was Bone Duds and
Harmony because they're verylike I feel like I'm very
spiritually aligned with whatthey rap, slash, sing about, and
we're living in a time nowwhere a group like the Migos is
compared to Bone Duds andHarmony and not to take anything
(08:55):
away from that group, but it'skind of like it's such a 180
from speak content-wise and youknow there is a lot of content
that's put out there thatperpetuates stereotypes and
that's awful and more often thannot there's usually some kind
of hate keeper or you know, Ihate to say white man or woman
(09:18):
on top directing these thingsand it's probably really
difficult to turn down.
You know, some $500,000 advanceif you need the money, right.
But I also think that there isa social responsibility to
understand that the content thatyou're putting out it's
(09:40):
sometimes it's not helpful.
You know what I mean.
We live in a time where there'slike people that look up to
future and I'm just thinking tomyself, just like I just like
like yo, when did this?
And not to take away from hismusic, it's not, it's just not
for me, but it's just such anegative connotation like no
matter how you spend it, so yeah, but you're making millions off
(10:03):
of this, so it's like somethinghas to give.
But we've reached a time in theindustry where it doesn't take
a lot of creativity to put musicout.
I could, if I wanted to.
I could open my open on my FLstudio and produce something
right now and put it out onSpotify.
And now I'm a musician.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
You said FL studio.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Right, right, that's exactly I'm aging myself.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
And it's kind of great to think about one of my
favorite rappers like of thepast you know, maybe Decade or
whatnot is probably gonna beRick Ross and I've listened to a
ton, a ton of his albums and itwas one album like.
Every time his album comes outI would go and listen to it.
Go and listen to it, it got to apoint where it was a new album
(10:52):
that had came out and I went tolisten to it and I mean this is
like his 10th album, right?
He's been in the game for awhile, he's been rich for a
while, you know you talk aboutlike his house was the set of
coming to America too.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Which is not a very good movie, by the way.
No, I digress.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
This might be like that might be an unpopular
opinion, but no, I did not likethat movie either.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I hated every second of that movie.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Let it rest.
Why didn't we just leave it atone?
That would have been fine, butanyway, not to the, because I
just threw salt on the legacy ofthe first one.
I know we like going off gear alittle bit, but but anyway,
when we're talking about RickRoss, he has written, so he's
done so many albums, done somuch stuff and to get on an
album where, like it's like his10th album, he has money, he has
(11:41):
cars, he has houses, that hehas achievements and he's still
talking about selling drugs andthe same type of things that
he's been talking about foryears and years and years, it's
like how many times one can Ihear you talk about drugs?
And then, two, how many timeslike he's been caught in so many
lies.
He was a correctional officerand all of the stuff that he's
talking.
(12:01):
So it's like I mean for a hiphop, like for me growing up,
when you think about hip hop.
Hip hop is supposed to be thetruth of the people, right?
Yeah, so if, if hip hop is thetruth and you getting caught on
lies, not, not even this andRick Ross, because he probably
ain't even the most like the,the one who's done it the most.
There's so many.
All of them do it, like all ofthem do it he's up there but
(12:24):
it's like a lot, a lot of themdo it, they, they perpetrate
this personality, they that theyaren't or they aren't anymore,
and it's just like I couldn'teven listen to the music anymore
, just because it just seemedlike if you're still really
living our lifestyle, I don'tknow how you're living the other
lifestyle that you have goingon as well, and it just was so
discouraging because it's onlyso much of that kind of message
(12:48):
you can take in as an educatedblack person.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, and I wonder if it was Teflon Don.
I wonder if that's the albumyou're talking about.
But I think Rick Ross is one ofthose examples where people
just accept him as a character,almost like professional
wrestling and I think that Ithink he feeds off of that.
(13:12):
Honestly, I think he's wellaware of his place within within
rap and what's wild is when hefirst hit the scene, when Porta
Miami first hit the scene, I waslike yo, this dude's amazing.
And he wasn't.
He wasn't really talking aboutselling drugs back then he was
talking about having money andall that, but like, not not the
drugs so much.
But I think it's just acceptedthat he's a character.
(13:33):
It's kind of like how the NBAused to be sports, right but,
now it's more like entertainment.
Yeah, it's kind of like how hiphop is now.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I agree, I didn't.
I never even thought about itas a character.
I think the thing that isdiscouraging to me when we think
about these Adele rappersbecause you know, like when we
were young, like rappers werelike in their 30s and now like
weird, like once you startgetting older than rappers that
they're hot, now you kind oflook at it like whoa, but you
see them.
It's like I don't thinkeverybody knows that.
(14:04):
All of these rappers talkingabout murder and killing people
and drugs and killing people andmurders we're done it.
But you know what I mean allthese rappers talking about all
of this stuff.
I don't think that all the kidsknow that, that a lot of them
could be capping.
You know what I mean?
Like that's not even the truth,that they're being characters,
that they're trying to be to fitan image that they never really
(14:26):
live up to.
And then you have the youthlooking up.
I mean even like the thing thatthat was like you talk about
sports, like looking at JohnMoran and like seeing him being
at the pinnacle of a basketballcareer, being on the verge of
becoming an icon, and keepgetting caught for the same
thing and now he's going to missout on a bunch of money and a
bunch of opportunities becauseof it, and that's the examples
(14:48):
that we have over on our youth.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You know it's interesting.
Um, I'm actually I just decidedto purchase a pair of his
sneakers, like last week,because I typically refuse to
purchase somebody's signatureshoe if I disagree with their
kind of points of how they live.
But I truly think, like I, hehas no choice but to turn it
(15:15):
around at this juncture.
Um, the only thing because,because I'm of the opinion of
like yo, all right, first time,stupid second time come on, man,
like you can't, like you haveto be, even if you're not doing
anything illegal, which is whateverybody kind of falls on,
right?
Um, it's still stupid, right,and like yo, I don't make that
(15:41):
much money, I'm not, I don'tmake 200 mil and I'm not, I'm
not risking that, uh, for forInstagram.
This, this whole social mediathing is just, it's wild how it
just shapes our lives.
But I, I truly believe thatJabara is going to get it
together, especially since theNBA is kind of looking for a new
face to the league and if hecan really turn it around, he's
(16:03):
young, speaking of being olderthan rappers.
So I look at these basketballplayers and I'm like, oh my gosh
, like you're only like 22 yearsold, right, you make 300
million dollars a year andyou're complaining because you
got to play back to bad games,me, and while I'm like you know,
my, my basement is finished,you know what I mean like that's
a real world problem.
Yeah, um, yeah, I don't knowit's.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It's all tied to social media, which is probably
like the ultimate 2020 in ourhistory yeah, uh, social media
is such a thing, becauseeverything that goes on social
media so curated and like,sometimes like even thinking
about that.
That can be very depressingbecause it shapes the narrative
that everybody's living thisextraordinary life.
(16:46):
And then you're looking at yourpersonal life and it's not
matching up, but the only thingthat you see is just the
highlights, and it's kind of sadyeah, and, and I have to, and I
have to apologize, I meantcatch 22, not 2020, the social
media being the ultimate catch22.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Um, yeah, I'm in the middle of like a weight loss
journey myself and I'm notposting anything until maybe the
beginning of next year.
Nothing, I'm moving to completesilence other than this
conversation, um, because I justdon't want the influence,
either positive or negative, ithas to come from me yeah, so why
, why, why?
(17:26):
Why bring in the more thanlikely negative external?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
why?
Why even open it up for?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
criticism right right and and we're living in these
very passive, aggressive timeswhere people don't address
things anymore.
They leave clues, they leavebreadcrumbs and then they want
you to ask about it.
And it's, it's, it's soindirect and it's just like so
dishonest to communication, butthat that's.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
We have reached the point where that is the norm and
and it's such a, it's such adisservice, and and the world is
so connected.
Now too, you know what I mean.
And it's, and the internet iswritten.
And what did you say?
The internet, net is written,it and stone our ink.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
You can't erase it, the internet, forever.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, so it's things that kids are saying and doing
now that could affect them 20years from now, right?
Right and so if we're notcareful, we don't, if we don't
start to cultivate the youth now, then they could do something
now that could be detrimental totheir future.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I'm very nervous for our future.
If I'm being honest with youand myself, I think that, just
as human beings, I think ourvalue system has changed so much
.
You know I don't know if I'm Ithink I mentioned this when you
and I first met.
You know, when they, when theydiscovered water on one of the
moons around Titan, like thatwas like a second page news, but
(18:52):
first page news was KimKardashian on a cover of a
magazine.
Yeah, and that's the norm now,like they just declassified all
that documentation about UFOsand nobody's talking about it.
Um, but that's like those arebig scientific things that can
maybe push us forward, but wedon't.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
We don't think like that, at least collectively and
I think but I think a lot ofthat has to do with what's going
on in the world, like I alwaysthink like the world is is huge,
right, but like everybody livesin their own world and and
there's so many other things,like whenever they're releasing
information about like hey guys,we don't know what this flying
object is, but it's real, andthat's on page seven and people
(19:35):
are talking about what about theeconomy?
What about murder hunters?
What about COVID?
Right about, uh, systemicracism?
What about voters?
Right, right, it's.
It's it's kind of sad that thatgets pushed all the way back,
but it's so many other, I mean,everything is big like that,
especially when you're close toit, everything seems really big
and it's like, as I mean,probably 20 years ago you had to
(19:57):
say, like aliens, oh mygoodness.
Like like flying saucers.
It would have been a big deal,but, right, I think so many
things have happened since thenthat kind of desensitized us to
the to those things, becausethere's so many real things that
are imminent danger, likevoters, rights is imminent.
You know what I mean.
If we don't get the youtheducated and and like mount it
(20:18):
up to go vote, then, like, ourdemocracy is in danger and
that's such a, that's just sucha different take than I feel
like before even talking.
Going back to athletes, Iremember Charles Barkley, his
big thing.
You remember, I don't know you,I don't know if you remember
this, and now I'm aging myself,now he's, he had that commercial
.
I am not your role model, not arole model.
Yeah, so it's like even backthen, like compared to like what
(20:42):
they said about Charles Barkley.
Think about, he's a belovedcharacter, basically a character
on sports tv now, and likecomparing him to like what
people are going through now,it's just.
It's just like been such.
The world has changed so much.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think that that's a .
I think that that's a veryquality argument to my, my, my
want for the science stuff to bebigger.
There are.
There are problems that we facetoday that are absolutely more
immediate.
I think it's the I think it'skind of like the nerd in me that
that wants so much to have likethe unseen be discovered, like
(21:19):
I'm a sucker for that stuff.
So you're, you're, you're athousand percent correct about
that.
You know.
You take what is it?
Where is that?
Michigan, where there's stillno clean drinking water?
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I'm talking about Flint.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Flint right, and you know, I don't even know if they
brought that back theirmunicipal services yet, but for
a time there were none.
And that like I don't know ifyou've ever seen Robocop, but
that basically made Robocop looklike a documentary.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Right, yeah, I'm from Detroit.
Like, oh, I didn't know that.
Okay, I have seen Robocop.
Ok, so you see Robocop.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
OK, all right, so so, but that's the reality now and
it's not being addressed, or notbeing addressed sufficiently.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think some of the scariest things is is that it's
TV shows that I used to watchduring, like you know, 2020.
It was TV shows that I waswatching about, you know, most
political intrigue and differentthings, that about stuff that's
happening like the president'scolluding with Russia, and this
was TV and it got to a pointwhere the government stuff that
(22:24):
was happening in the governmentin the world was mirroring too
closely to stuff that I thoughtwas so far fetched that it could
never happen.
It was one of the scariestthings ever.
And it kind of read.
It kind of likerecontextualizes everything that
you think about, because it'slike these things that people
wrote as fiction and not evenjust regular fiction.
It's like far fetched fiction,this can never happen.
And then it happens and it'slike wow, like this is mirroring
(22:48):
the things that we said cannever happen, as far fetched.
It makes you just really thinkabout the way you see the world
going forward.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I think the scariest example of that was a film
called Idiocracy.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I heard that film.
I haven't I haven't seen itthough.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
It's so.
It is so close to where we arenow and actually the, the other
movie with Leonardo DiCaprio,the, the don't look up, but
that's more like a satire thatit was.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
So on point.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Right Right.
There were very few things inthat movie where I was like that
seems extreme.
We, we, you know, we're livingthat now.
And that's what makes me scaredfor the future, because I don't
see it how I pray it does, butI don't see it improving, at
least within a generation.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, you want to have hope, I think after.
I think like Obama beingpresident for eight years and
then not being president anymore.
And then what followed was verysobering, because when he ran
on hope and he won, it was likewow, things are really different
now, things are going to change, we're going to be moving
forward.
And then we just was like no,just kidding Psych, it is not.
(23:58):
We're not moving forward, we're, we're going all the way back.
But I mean still, even withObama, I think it's beautiful,
like just recontextualizing on ayouth Me even being an adult
when he won, it just was likewow, like I can see it now, like
a black man being president,that is incredible.
(24:19):
It's something that you neverthought was.
That's like one of those thingsI mean in the same sense, kind
of it's like one of those thingsthat was far fetched.
We had seen it on TV, we hadseen in movies.
Morgan Freeman had been thepresident before I'm a new
Morgan Freeman right, but it'sseen in real life, just made it
so much real and made it sodifferent.
And then, finally, because whenwe started talking about like
(24:42):
you don't have to tell a blackperson what they can be and what
their limitations are, youdon't have to verbally say it
because the world consistentlyshows them every day, and so to
see that that window broken wasbeautiful.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I think also, I think seeing the Obamas together as a
family unit, I think thatinspired a lot of hope, even
outside of the presidency,because that's something to
strive for right.
I consider that legitimate, alegitimate example of being a
(25:19):
world model.
But we were lucky because thatwas a mainstream example.
It took the office of thepresident for black people to
see hope I hate to call it hopebut for the world to see oh,
wait a sec, we can do this.
(25:39):
So when they left office, Ithink that there was just like
this big piece of what we lookedup to and what we strive for
that was just taken away, takenaway from the public eye.
And yeah, of course they'restill there and of course
they're still doing great things, but they're not front and
center anymore.
So now we kind of revert backto role models more centered
(26:01):
around the entertainmentindustry, which is no good.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
No, because I mean, like you said, a lot of them are
characters, exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'm embarrassed because outside of, like Neil
deGrasse Tyson, I can't reallythink of any, but I'll follow
closely.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
that happens to be black, yeah, that's a fair point
, that is a fair point.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Or at least let me rephrase outside of my
profession, my personalinterests are very few Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I love that you're talking about science, because
that's one of the things that Ilove growing up as a kid and I
know you work in severaldifferent things.
I know you're a part of anonprofit called Homewood.
Homewood's your top.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, so what are some of the things that you're
doing at Homewood?
We talked about it before, butnot on air.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
So it was like what's going on there?
So we did the summer programmingwhich was called Learning in
there, and that's what I wasexplaining to you before.
That was a gaming work site.
Moving into the school year Iwill be moving into a different
position.
I'll be a middle school programmanager at a high school called
Westinghouse, for sixth toeighth grade, and between now
(27:12):
and, I think, the end ofSeptember, we're being tasked
with creating programming tomake these kids as academically
successful as possible, but alsodoing so in a very intentional
way.
The way the state has theseguidelines set up is so bare
minimum.
It's so set up for them to justdo just well enough to pass
(27:34):
standardized testing so theschool can get its funding, and
then let's ship the youthsomewhere else and let them be
somebody else's problem.
So I know a lot of myprogramming is going to be
centered around entrepreneurialspirit, just chasing your dreams
, and a big, big piece of it ifI can design it the right way is
(27:55):
getting over that impostersyndrome that I know faces all
of us, because we have a societytelling us to your point what
we can and cannot do.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, we definitely do.
Just to put it so far, peopleare unfamiliar with Homewood.
What's the full title?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Homewood Children's Village.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Can you explain what it is and what this mission is?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Sure.
So it is a non-profit based inHomewood in Pittsburgh,
pennsylvania, and we serve theyouth in that immediate area,
actually youth families, friends, whoever counterparts.
We improve their lives, if iteven needs it, educationally
speaking, economically speaking,mentally, emotionally.
(28:41):
We offer many differentservices, kind of centered
around support.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
So why do you think it's so important to start with
a single neighborhood, toconcentrate on one area?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, because you have to start with what's in
front of you, like right, to getto the big picture.
You still have to take thosesteps and Homewood, speaking of
perception, doesn't have a verygood perception, but to me
that's BS, because I'm in andout of Homewood every day and I
(29:16):
felt nothing but support.
You know what I mean.
So I take it personal when youknow someone says, well, I'm not
going through there and ofcourse there's unsafe places
everywhere, right, but you knowI take that stuff personal, what
you know when neighborhoods areseen a specific way.
So you know what this is.
(29:39):
This is where fate has broughtme.
I'm in a position where I can,I have some creative freedom
over the programming that I do,which is something that I've
been striving for for a verylong time.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, I kind of think about the way that America has
made a lot of other countriesfeel unsafe and, like you know,
kind of like as a as a growingup, you know like nowhere is
safe.
Nowhere is safe.
This country is bad.
Africa as a whole is bad.
Like all of all of Africa isbad.
It's like no good places inAfrica.
And you know, before, like theinternet really started, you
(30:14):
know the game traction, youdidn't necessarily know what to
believe and now you look at itand it doesn't even make sense
for the rest of the world to allbe bad, except for America.
Right, just because it's likeI'm from, I grew up in Detroit
and the thing is like, likepeople think about Detroit, oh,
you made it out, how'd you makeit out of Detroit safe?
Why?
Because that's a reputation.
(30:35):
But you know, just like anyother city like I mean, I can go
down to Miami and if I go offthe wrong path, like Miami gonna
look just like Detroit and bejust as dangerous as places in
every big city that aredangerous and just like the
world.
So like whenever you can take alike an area and change it,
recontextualize it and say likehey, look at this, it's not what
(30:56):
you think it is.
I think that's that like thatis just the perfect, the perfect
.
It's just a similar thing.
I said like hey, black people,we are, we, we are many things,
not just one thing.
And like starting aneighborhood, that's beautiful,
trying to change the way thatpeople look at that neighborhood
.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I also enjoy.
You know you talk about lovingscience.
I also enjoy coming in fromthat angle and speaking about
that, because it's not, you know, it's not what the cool kids do
, I guess, or whatever.
But I love coming in talkingabout comic books, video games,
stuff that a lot, of, a lot ofyoung men and men and women
don't aren't comfortable talkingabout because they're scared.
(31:38):
They're.
You know, there will be seen aspecific way, but I come in
there all geeked out, all nerdout and I'm like who cares what?
Who cares what people think?
Follow your passions to like,do the things you love, right.
And I think you know, granted,it's home within the beginning,
(31:58):
but if it ends up just beinghome, what I'm good with that
because that's what I set outfor.
You know, pittsburgh is my home.
Of course that's not the endgoal, but I'm doing good things
and I eat.
You know I sleep peacefully,you know.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
That's awesome, so, as education, the way that we
help influence the youth andmake a better world for them it
doesn't start with education oras there are other other factors
that we got to add into thattoo.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
It starts with education, but it has to be
intentional Education.
As it stands now, it's very,very scattered and very, very,
you know, funding oriented.
I even for myself, like I don'teven think they didn't even
teach me how to balance acheckbook until, like my senior
(32:50):
year, high school, you know,none of my teachers sat me down
to talk to me about credit,credit management or purchasing
properties, things like that,like real world expertise, real
world experiences.
I honestly also think it shouldbe mandatory that our youth
(33:11):
work a retail job at some pointin their life.
Like I think that is how youlearn people skills, what you
know, it's sink or swim in thatarena, right, and we've all
worked jobs we hate.
And I look back sometimes andI'm thinking like yo, I took
three buses to get here to make925 an hour.
(33:32):
I hated this.
And now, whenever I feel likeI'm going to fail at something,
I think back to that and Iremember, like how hard I used
to have it and how I'll neverallow myself to go back to that.
I think that's also why I'm inthis in this phase now, because
(33:53):
my father passed away when I was20, oh, 27, 25 or 27, I can't
remember, and that kind of justlike I'm still real from it.
You never really get over thatright, and that was the hardest
time in my life and now when I'm, when I think I'm going to fail
, I think back to that and Ithink I'll never allow myself to
(34:16):
get like that ever again.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Ever you use that to give you strength, that if you,
if you can survive and getthrough that situation, you can
survive and get through whatyou're going through now.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
That's, that's kind of.
That's an amazing thing to takea loss and use it as a strength
.
I think that's that's beautifulyeah.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I appreciate you saying that I am, you know, my
mom's still alive lesser heart.
My parents put a lot of time,love, effort into into where I
am now.
I'm not going to eat, you knowwhat I mean.
I'd be doing them a disserviceto not not do everything I can.
I have kids looking up to me, Ihave.
I have people around, likearound me.
(35:02):
You know that I love and theylove me.
I'd rather build.
Build from that, knowing thatI'm making my family proud,
making my work, specifically myfather, proud.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Gotcha.
No, that's.
That's great.
It's something about havingthat pride to to build on likes.
For some people, as women youknow are like their mate.
You know what I mean.
Some people is their parentsand I think that I think that's
one of the things that's lost.
You don't see that as much aslike I'm doing this to make my
family proud.
You know what I mean.
Like I feel like part somethings like you got to do for
(35:35):
yourself, but it's like italways.
For me it's always been thatextra motivation.
It's like I want to make my momproud or my dad proud or my
wife proud.
It always gives me that muchmore motivation and strength to
continue on doing what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You know it's wild about that concept.
One of my closest friends putit to me the best way we try so
hard to make our parents proud,but our parents are already
proud of us.
So why do we do that?
Why do we chase that?
And I don't, I don't have ananswer to that.
But if someone asked me well,Matt, what do you do for
yourself?
I don't know.
(36:10):
I don't have a concrete answer,I just don't.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
That's true, that's fair point.
This is like thinking and liketrying to answer that question,
even for myself, is hard, like,probably this is one of the
things.
This podcast is one of thethings I do for myself, but
really not at the same time.
I mean, like I want to learnmore about blackness.
I want to spread, like, theword about blackness, have more
understanding told aboutblackness and as we talk, as we
(36:39):
continue to talk about the youth, one thing that I thought was
important for me is like asseeing how the world has been
the last, like you know, lastfew years, or even the last five
, six years, seeing how theworld has been, one of the
things that's been so importantis media and the way that I mean
not outside of even movies andtelevision the way that, like in
(37:01):
the news, the thing that'ssupposed to really be impartial,
the way that black people areportrayed in the news, even the
way that women are portrayed inthe news, is such a big
difference to the way thatsomeone black is talking about.
Like I always say, it's like theblack person could be the
victim and they'll talk to themlike they're the perpetrator and
(37:22):
it's like I remember, like aninstance where a young man he
had got shot and killed in hisown home about off duty police
officer and they were lookingfor every anything that they
could find to like the, to makeit justified that this black man
was murdered.
It's like, oh, he had weed inthe house and it's like, ooh,
yeah, right, he should have diedbecause of that.
(37:43):
Right now it's just they.
It's so unfair.
You could almost read aheadline, read a crime.
Read a headline.
Read the first couple sentences.
You can tell if that is a blackor white person, who is the
victim or the perpetrator.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Oh, that's, it's easier than that, because it
usually says white cop killsblack youth or black cop kills
white youth.
It's never cop kills youth.
It's flagged to create clicksand cause further division.
It's all intentional and it'ssad.
(38:24):
It's sad because, again, I amdefinitely an optimist by nature
, but I don't see how thischanges as long as we maintain
the just kind of like thecapitalistic nature of of you
know how we are.
I mean, you got to figure ithasn't been.
I remember when we celebratedChristopher Columbus Day, like
(38:47):
in school, right, and it waslike a whole.
You know, we make turkeys andall this.
You know paper turkeys and allthat, and now it's like, oh wait
, a second, it wasn't, it wasn'tso, so, so clean.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Honestly celebrate that Right.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
And that's literally history being rewritten Right.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
In our lifetimes.
In our lifetimes.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I never dreamed of that.
And we're also living in a timewhere, you know, people denied
a Holocaust, people say slaverywas involuntary displacement or
something along those lines.
You talk about Texas, yeah,yeah, so it's.
But this is real.
Like bro, like I laugh at stufflike this because like if I, if
(39:38):
I, if I was speaking aboutgrandparents right now and I was
telling them this, they'd belike no way.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
No way.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
But it's.
But what the irony is is wehave more access to information
now than we ever did.
Yep, but we're somehow dumber.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
And I mean but the there are people who are
systematically trying to takeaway the information, right, the
truth and the history and trick.
They're trying torecontextualize it in a way that
all slavery it wasn't that badand they learned skills and
right, I don't know.
So do you want to be a slave?
Like that would be the questionthat the people saying that is
(40:15):
like all right, so you can be aslave and you can learn some
skills for free, if it's sogreat.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I just I feel like if I was in a bar is some dude
said that to me.
I'm not going to swing on him,I'm not like a, not immediately,
but it's like you know that'san argument, yeah, like I'm
saying something Like that'sthat, that opinion is just, it's
.
It's laughable to me, but it'salso kind of like 50% of the
(40:44):
country, so it's scary.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, I don't know if it's.
I'm hoping it's not 50%, I hope.
I hope it's way too close of50%.
Either way it goes.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I'm exaggerating, but it's in the 40s, I think.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah, I mean, but still that's a crazy amount to
think about.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Crazy amount of people that believe something.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Yeah, um gosh man.
There's so many beautifulthings to talk about in life,
but this, just this, hasn't beena good, um good, couple of
years.
No no, it's been a lot.
It's important to protect yourpeace, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
I mean as black people.
It's a kind of I forget whatyou call it, but it's a
collective.
It's a collective trauma thatwe all carry and it kind of gets
reintroduced with, like moviesthat come out that talk about
slavery, and then all of thenews and everything.
It's like we're constantlygetting beat down as a culture
(41:48):
and it's a toll that it takes onus continuously, every day, to
have to live through it.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, you're talking about that generational trauma
that is almost, almost, it's inour blood.
I mean it really is Literallylike, literally Literally, yeah,
and it's just again.
All I can do is help help thepeople closest to me and the
people that want help, and hopethat that causes some kind of
(42:15):
pay it forward chain and youknow, every positive.
Just keep building on that andhoping for the best, because if
you get bogged down, worryingabout the big picture too much
which is something that I do, Iget anxiety about it a lot
You'll find yourself justworrying.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Nostop.
But I mean I think I think whatyou're doing, you're doing it
the right way, thank you.
I mean you are starting at thebottom.
It's like like what was it backin our day?
It's like the children are ourfuture.
That was, that was the song.
So, the children are our future.
So you're starting with theyouth and you, and if you can
plant that seed in them, thenthey can grow up and they can
(42:52):
start planting seeds at our own.
So I think you're doing it theright way and I think what
you're doing is really, reallyimportant for the community and
the youth as a whole, justbecause one community can help
change the whole world.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
It's.
I appreciate you saying thatit's I don't know.
I love it.
I'm blessed because to me it'snot difficult work, because I
already like doing it, and Ithink kids are.
Kids are just like man, justlike fantastic, because for most
of them the world hasn't jadedthem to the point where
(43:28):
everything's you know soterrible, like they still have
hope.
Speaking of speaking aboutObama and hope like that's kind
of just in the kids at thispoint, like I feel like once you
turn like 30, any hope you have, if you still have it, hang on
to it.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
It's like that.
That two-pot client thatKendrick Lamar put in one of his
songs on his album to PimpleButterfly talked about how you
only have energy till you hitlike 30.
Like he's talking about blackyouth, the man only have energy
till they hit 30 and then it'sover.
You saying that made me thinkabout that.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
It's funny, I'm one of the few that I actually like
Mad City a lot better than toPimple Butterfly.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I probably would agree with you on that.
I think both of them are good.
It took me a while to get intoPimple Butterfly, though.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
His most recent one I really do enjoy, though I
forget what it's called.
Mr Morell and the Big Steps, Ithink yeah, I enjoy that album,
but that's kind of like more inmy vein.
I'm definitely I listen to likeLupe Fiasco.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Kendrick.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
J Cole.
I was a real, real big Joebutton man until he started
podcasting.
Now I just kind of go back andlisten to all his new music
tapes, but I like listening tointrospective music.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
No, I totally get it.
I do, like, prefer J Cole.
He's probably my favorite ofthat generation, sure, even over
Kendrick.
Just because it's hard tolisten to Kendrick's music
repeatedly sometimes, justbecause it puts me in a place.
I don't want to be J Cole.
I feel like he says stuff, buthe also says it in a way that it
doesn't take you to that darkplace sometimes and I feel like
(45:10):
Kendrick, like sometimes he's sogood at putting you in that
mode.
It's like I don't feel likeI've been political all day.
I don't want to listen to musicthat's going to make me more
political, right.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Sometimes you just want to listen to something
that's going to entertain you.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Exactly, and I think that J Cole does a better job of
like tipping that balance.
He's entertaining butinformative and he's getting his
message out.
Just kind of like you said,you're doing comedy, improv and
I always think that comedy issuch a great art just because
you can speak so much truth incomedy and people laugh and you
can make people uncomfortable,and it's like the place where
(45:47):
you can make peopleuncomfortable and laugh but also
get a point across and it'sokay to say certain things.
So like I always respect likecomedians and the art, like the
ones that are really good.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I'm still.
I'm definitely growing, but inmy mind, like I have to perceive
myself as if I walk into a room.
I have to be the funniestperson in the room and I've
certainly gone up there andbombed.
I've had jokes that I thoughtwould kill and I would just look
down and people are staring atme and you can feel like the
sweat and you can feel like yourhand getting all sweaty and all
(46:21):
that.
But my sense of humor is alsovery like I'm really.
I'm really realistic about mylife and just kind of like you
know what I expect.
So I joke about that and thatway it's like all right.
Well, if you don't think it'sfunny, I think it's funny, I'm
good with it.
I'm up here laughing, it's fun.
So, yeah, I think my favoritething in the world, other than
(46:45):
my kids, is still laugh.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
And that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's the best.
I mean, it's the best feelinghonestly.
For that, for that moment, andwhen you're laughing, nothing
else matters.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
A friend of mine who I interviewed.
He said on his episode thatBlack Joy is not.
Now I'm going to forget thequote, I can't remember.
It's not revolutionary, butsomething to that point like
like joy is something else and,like a lot of times, black Joy
starts without laugh.
To be able to laugh and topersevere through all of the
(47:16):
things that collectively, as aculture, that we have to go
through, it's like amazing tostill be able to find something
to laugh about.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
It's the mountain that we have to climb just to
gain a little bit of an edge.
Not even equity or equality,just an edge is exhausting, and
to your point.
To be able to find joy afterall of that, that's a strength,
(47:48):
that's damn near a superpower.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
That's the Black superpower.
There we go.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Right, exactly, and again, I'm blessed to be in a
decent situation financially, soI don't have to.
You know I don't.
There are people that have itso much worse than I do, but
they, man, they find joy, theylaugh.
They know they got to wake uptomorrow morning at 6am to catch
(48:16):
that bus, but they still findjoy.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So I love bro.
Like I said, man laughing is myfavorite.
Childish Gambino was anotherartist I was thinking of, that,
I think does a good job ofbalancing politics and
entertainment.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
I think he does that.
He does a great job and withouthis music and his comedy and
with his movies and televisionshows he's like, so multifaceted
and everything that he does helike.
Atlanta is probably one of myall time favorite television
shows because, like, especiallythat last season he got really
deep with some of the stuff thathe like I had to kind of go
(48:54):
back and look at some of theprevious episodes.
They all kind of tied together.
It was kind of crazy how hekind of just tied everything
together.
So like he is a great creator,somebody that like I feel like
we all kind of aspire, aspire tobe like him.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I feel that same way about Jordan Peele.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Oh yeah, jordan Peele , that's another good example.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
I feel that exact same way because his I've never
seen anything from him that Idid not like, nothing, never,
not a key appeal episode, nope,it's one of my favorite films.
Get out, love it, us love it.
He just thinks differently andI love that.
Like when I'm watching thesemovies, I just see characters
(49:34):
like speaking how you and I arespeaking but it calls attention
to it, right, like that's theone thing I can't stand in
entertainment where, justbecause somebody speaks with a
certain dialect or a certainslang.
they always find a reason tocall attention to it in film,
Whereas if you watch somethinglike across the spider verse
like yo, they're just talkingback and forth in Spanish
(49:56):
English.
Whatever they never call it,it's normalized.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Right, I get what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
And that's where we need to be, but we're not.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Now we got a long way and I think about I think we
talked about that before where,like, well, something happens to
the first black, the first this, and that I think the reason
why we still call it out is justbecause we have to pay
attention to it, because it'sbeen such a big disparity for
generations that when it happenswe have to say, hey, this is
still just the first.
(50:26):
You know what I mean.
Like I'm, in certain areas itkind of makes sense just because
this is the first like wake upAmerica, like wake up, like
humanity.
This is just the only the first.
Of all these people who comethrough like think about it.
The first like when he wasrunning for president, it was
the first he's running to be thefirst back black president.
When he won president, he wasthe first multicultural
(50:47):
president.
We changed the presentationbecause he won Right.
So there's a lot of that.
That's like Tiger Woods, yeah,exactly.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
It's like Tiger Woods , it's almost that, it's almost
like if you switched.
So, for example, if a youngblack man, I don't know, I don't
know any other milestones, butwe'll make one up Young black
man first person hired a NASA.
If you flipped it and said itlike literally.
The headline says yo, aboutdamn time you know first black
(51:19):
black person hired at NASA toshow like yo.
It's crazy that it's takingthis long.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Makes sense.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
I think, then I think it would be, it would almost be
more, more impact more of anemphasis on it took this long
right, like you, like you guyssee how crazy it is right that
you ain't never seen nobody withno Tim's on and NASA, you know,
I mean like that's, that'scrazy.
So I think if you, if youswitch it, I think that way it's
(51:49):
negative.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
You want to like recontextualize the way.
I mean that's a that's a fairpoint and like if we can make it
so that we Control more mediaor actually have more media
outlets, things that we can dolike that, then we'll be able to
actually contextualize in theway that makes sense to us.
Instead of you know, fivepeople own it, like all of the
network news television channelsand they all say the same thing
(52:13):
.
You know what I mean.
So it's one other thing that Iwanted to ask you about that we
kind of talked about and Iremember I don't remember
exactly what it was, but it wasa term and I wrote it down and I
was like this is an interestingterm, but I do not remember
what it was.
So I wanted to ask you about it.
You mentioned a term.
It was called a manufacturedconsent manufactured consent.
(52:33):
Can you break that down oh?
Speaker 2 (52:35):
oh man, I wish we had more time.
The idea of manufacturedconsent is at least how I
perceive it is.
A group of people are Giventhis idea that what they're
doing is making some kind ofimpact, mm-hmm, or making some
kind of change, when in realityit's just kind of like a
misdirection, in a way to keepthem busy Thinking that they're
(53:00):
making a change while the statusquo just continues.
I think I think when you and Ispoke, the example I used was
the NBA bubble and you knowthese, these guys.
They were t-shirts with amessage on the back, and that's
a good thing, right, but at theend of the day, they had no
control over what the messagewas.
It still had to be approved bysomebody above and, and if it
(53:25):
were me, if I wanted to makeactual change, I would say
listen, I'm worth $400 millionto this franchise.
I'm not dribbling anotherbasketball.
I will give up my paycheckUntil I see X or Y change, right
, but that doesn't really happen.
So that's why I like when I seea lot of these athletes get
(53:48):
compared to like Muhammad Ali orsomebody like that.
Yeah, it's just like I don'teven understand how you can say
that I.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Think the closest thing I've ever seen to that
where somebody actually spoke up, would and protest it, and you
see how well that went yeah yeahand and and I have mixed
feelings about him.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
I have the utmost respect for what he did, but he
was still.
He was still getting a checkfrom Nike on the back end the
entire time.
So I take a little bit issuewith that, but it took guts for
what he did.
Then.
The irony is is the originalknee was misinterpreted to begin
with.
Yeah, like, and he's yo, helooks like me, like yo, I
(54:28):
thought.
I thought I thought I was like.
Ones were supposed to be likeless threatening you know what I
?
mean, that's what they told me.
And the only thing I don't likeis is that everyone said give
him a shot, give him a shot, buthe was playing trash before
that and nobody talks about that.
Everyone says he's blackball,but he wasn't a good quarterback
(54:51):
at the time to begin with.
So it gave it gave a lot ofthese owners a really good
justification.
They didn't have to, theydidn't have to say race, even
though a lot of it was race.
They could just say I mean,he's not playing well.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
I mean by that time I stopped watching football and I
know he had just been to theSuper Bowl like not that many
seasons ago.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
I was like three and it'd be fair and it'd be fair.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
He was a starting quarterback and he actually did
win a lawsuit against the NFLfor undisclosed amount of money,
right for being black ball.
So like it's a, it's a littlebit.
It's a little bit in that too,so it's something.
But it takes so much courage.
She really speak out.
I mean even like, just talkingabout sports.
He's talking about like, like,think about Kyrie Irving and how
(55:36):
he was victimized, like theythey were, like they talked
Christ so much crap about him.
All he doesn't want to get thevaccine he would like for him.
It was like I don't, I don'tremember if it was religious or
just the way that he felt.
He just basically said, likeI'm not doing this and if I got
to sit out, I'm gonna sit out.
Then you have somebody on theother side and football you have
and Rogers and Rogers said thathe was.
(56:00):
Vaccinated and yeah, and thenlike the way they responded to
him when they because it wasprotocols, the NFL had protocols
.
He's like you don't have to bevaccinated, but if you're
vaccinated you can do this, thisand this, but if you're not,
you can't do any of this stuff.
You can only do this.
And he was participating inthings like he was vaccinated.
It came out that he was notvaccinated and Everybody's like,
(56:24):
okay, yeah, and it's like KyrieIrving is sitting there and
they're like, oh, he's soproblematic, he's, he's a
troublemaker, he's doing this.
And that the way that theyPainted the picture of Kyrie
Irving versus Aaron Rogers is.
It shows how big of a dividethat there is between the way
that Black whether it's anathlete or just a person in
(56:45):
general and white are Portrayedin the media is just incredibly
different.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Look at breath oh.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
Yeah, oh yeah, bro, that's.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
nobody talks about breath bro, I think when all
that stuff happened, I think Imaybe saw one or two stories on
ESPN and that's it.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
It's like maybe NPR I .
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Even, even, even though people perceive Kyrie
Irving as anti-Semitic, I stilldon't think he's anti-Semitic.
I think he was backed upagainst the wall and when he was
forced to make a declarativestatement on whether he was
anti-Semitic or not, felt thathe didn't.
He didn't need to justify, andI'm not mad at him for that.
I've got I still buy his sneaks.
Well, he doesn't.
He.
Nike cut him, but I'm.
He's still the greatest ballhandler in the history of the
(57:32):
league to me.
He, his whole thing was.
I just think that because healready had that stigma attached
to him, he didn't stand achance.
Yeah, they're just.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
Yeah, they're gonna mind up it was just stuff and
stuff on stuff, and I mean likestuff like that.
He's an easy target and youknow, you know well, it's like
you can't.
You don't have to agree witheverything that everybody does,
and maybe it's not the rightthing, maybe, but but still like
I feel like just for that, evenjust that one specific thing,
they treated him completelydifferent than they were
somebody else.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yeah, and and into your point.
Just to repeat because I thinkit bears repeating Aaron Rodgers
lied and he's straight uppeople's health at risk because
one of those mandates was, ifyou're not, if you're not back,
saying all right, cool, werespect that.
But then you got a mask up, hey,mask up.
He lied, he put people at riskand I don't think he paid a fine
(58:25):
.
As a matter of fact, I'm prettysure there was a.
It was.
There was a lot at one pointthat if you lied about being
vaccinated in specificsituations, you actually had to
face a fine or jail time.
Speaker 1 (58:37):
Mm-hmm, I Don't remember that.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
I'll have to get back to you on that, but there's
something along those lines.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
But I don't like he.
I don't feel like he faced anyconsequence.
He, like went on a podcastonline.
I said I didn't say I was.
I said I was Immunized like youwant to know what you like you
alluded to the fact that youwere vaccinated and you did
things To show that you were inthe vaccinated group right.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
That's a lie.
Speaker 1 (59:05):
It's a straight line We'll just call.
Like, if they won't call itwhat it is, we'll call it what
is?
He lied.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
He lied We'll keep it 100.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
That's it.
He lied.
So we we come into the end ofthe interview.
Is there anything, anything,you want to add, anything you'd
like to say, anything like totalk about?
Speaker 2 (59:21):
I you know what, honestly, I just talk about.
You know, live, laugh, love.
That's it.
Stay positive, even if thatnegative creeps in, just keep
pushing.
I've been on a realmotivational kick lately.
I Replace a lot of the BScontent and I replace it with
motivational, positive content.
In slowly but surely it changesyour mindset and I encourage
(59:41):
everybody else to do the same.
Speaker 1 (59:42):
That's awesome, man.
Well, I think it's been a greatconversation.
I appreciate you coming on theshow.
Speaker 2 (59:47):
I appreciate you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (59:49):
Again, I'd like to thank Matthew for coming on the
show.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Matthew, you can find that
information in the show notes.
Still talking black is a crownculture media LLC production.
You can find out more about itat still talking black calm.
New episodes on season two willbe available on YouTube and
your regular podcast sources, sothat's Apple podcast, spotify
(01:00:11):
or whatever else you use.
Season one is still up andavailable.
You can find it on allstreaming platforms.
It's not on YouTube yet, butyou can find it everywhere else.
So please come back next week.
We'll have a brand new guestand a brand new topic, but until
then, keep talking.
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