Rethinking College Admissions with Jennifer Ledwith

Episode Transcript
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Richard Dodds (00:00):
This is Still Talking Black, a show about
discussing issues aboutblackness from a black point of
view.
I'm your host, richard Dodds,and this is episode one of
season two.
I am so happy to be back andgiving new episodes to everyone.
As some of you can see, newepisodes of season two are going
to be available on YouTube, butif you like the audio version

(00:22):
only, don't worry, it'll stillbe available on Apple Podcasts,
spotify or wherever you get yourpodcast from.
On this episode, I'm joined byJennifer Legweth of Scholar
Ready.
We discussed the best ways toget your kids into college, how
they need to prepare, and shetried to do it by spending as
least money as possible.
Without any further ado.

(00:43):
Here we go.

Jennifer Ledwith (00:45):
Hi, I'm Jennifer Legweth of Scholar
Ready and I make grown men cry.
For the past 18 or 19 years, Ihave prepared students for PSAT,
SAT, ACT and state standardizedexams.
I've also helped students toimprove their literacy and their
math skills in the classroom.
The reason I say I make grownmen cry is because I have had

(01:07):
fathers and, of course, I workclose with mothers as well, and
what's notable is that I'vewatched grown men witness their
children achieve milestonesacademically that they did not
believe that they could achieve,and when they did, they cried.
So, among all the wonderfulthings that I do for my students

(01:28):
, I make grown men cry.
How you doing, Richard.

Hey, I was not expecting to grow man cry.
I was like where you going withthis?
Like why are you making grown?

men cry.

What are you doing?
I was like that just caught meoff guard.

I'm like bro, I was like why is she making
grown men cry?
What is she?

doing?
What is she doing over there?

When my books.
What can I do with a book?
Are you throwing books at meand making them cry?
Absolutely not.

Oh man.
So when we start to think aboutlike school readiness, like
when kids are graduating fromhigh school and they're
preparing, what are some of thethings that we're not doing to
prepare our kids properly to beready to go on to that next
level, whatever that next levelmight be?

So we have to think about whatever that next
level may be after high school,whether it's going straight into
the military, going into theworkforce, going to college or
going to a trade school.
We have to remember that thesethat a degree or a trade
certificate or experience in themilitary, or even just that

(02:45):
first job out of high schoolthose are tools.
We have to remember that thoseare tools, are components of a
larger plan and what we need todo is sit down and think about
well, what's the end goal here?
What career are you interestedin?
When you talk with kids, askthem what careers are they

(03:05):
interested in, and expose themto different careers and map out
a journey to get there.

Do you think kids at that age really know what
they want to do?
Like, for instance, like when Iwas, when I was getting ready
to go to college, like one, Iwas pretty much prepped like you
are going to college when yougraduate from high school, that
wasn't really even an option, itwas like a foregone conclusion.
But the other thing is that,like my parents, like because of
the things I like to do, it waspretty much thought that all

(03:35):
right, you're going to be anengineering, you're going to be
a computer engineer.
And I was in school for multipleyears to be a computer engineer
until I was like, no, this isnot, this is not what I want to
do.
So, like at that age, you knowlike you barely know who you are
at that age Like how can welike help prepare our kids for
like a choice that you knowthat's a, that's a big choice.

(03:56):
Like trying to figure out whatyou want to do for the rest of
your life at A-Z.

I would say it's important to expose
students to, to differentcareers.
For example, if so, with youhaving with with your parents
expecting you to have, wantingexpecting you to become a
computer engineer, and then youpursued that, and you pursued it
like weren't you years intothat degree.

I was.
I was years into that.
I was almost had that degree.
I should probably go finish it.
That's how close I was.

See, yeah, yeah, and I think what would be
beneficial is to to if, if youknow that engine, if, if
engineering is on the horizon,or if your folks believe that or
parents believe thatengineering or whatever career
is on their students horizon,they should have them go and
participate in like a, you know,maybe like a summer computer

(04:49):
engineer engineering camp or anengineering camp, have them
shadow and engineer during theday to have a, to get a feel for
it.
Another thing is you have thesein various high schools.
I know, at least in Texas,where I am, we have career and
technical education high schoolsand programs that are very

(05:09):
robust.
For example, I have a studentwho wants to pursue a career in
medicine and she is actuallytaking a class to learn to
become an EMT.
And that's look, when she goesthrough that program, either
she's going to really reallylike it or she's she's not going
to or she's not going to likeit.

(05:29):
I think I mean, even if peoplewant to become teachers, they
need to go and, you know,experience the classroom and
experience kids in the classroom.
I remember someone I had acolleague who was the head of a
college of education and she wasor the department of a college
of education and her interns.
One of the interns said I don'tlike children and I'm like,

(05:50):
well, if you're, if you're, ifyou're trying to be a teacher,
you you have okay.
So then this is where I mean,hopefully she decided not to
pursue education and she wentand did something else.
But I think it's important toif they, if students have an
inkling, if kids have an inklingof something they'd like to
study, put them on a program toto help them to understand that

(06:12):
they want to do it.
I know I had a friend who'svery good and often when we have
students, when we see studentswho are really good at math,
parents will steer them towardengineering.
And I had a friend of minewho's whose parents you know,
said okay, well, you likeengineering, go do a summer
program.
And he said that's the bestthing he ever did, because he

(06:33):
realized that he did not likeengineering.
And and he actually went tocollege and studied finance and
he, you know, he worked as aportfolio analyst for some time
and and that that's what we haveto do.
We have to really expose people, because that that's serious,
like if you especially somedegrees.
And that's why it's important tohave a plan, because when you

(06:54):
think about like, for example,dentistry, dentistry you know
people should shadow dentistsand and go to a summer program
and and get experience, thatthere are missions, trips where
students can work in medicalclinics and it's there.
You don't have to leave, youdon't have to go to, you know,
puerto Rico or the DominicanRepublic to do those things

(07:18):
there are.
There are volunteeropportunities stateside that
will allow a student to see whatit's like to be a dentist.
And when they and then they cansay, okay, well, oh well, oh,
this is what it's like to be adentist.
Okay, well, I really like this.
Or they may say, oh, I don'tlike this because, if you,
because if you, you know,because if you go to dental

(07:39):
school and you rack up, you knowwhat is it like?
100s of thousands of dollarsand student loan debt, how are
you going to pay that off?
But be a dentist?
So, so that that's what I think.
I think we really have to getfigure out ways to expose
students to the practicalitiesof the careers that interest
them.

Yeah, that's a good point, and yeah, and I
never had the opportunity.
I don't even think that, thatnever even crossed my mind.
Even now, like oh go shadowsome engineers.
You know see, if you can dothat type of stuff, I don't.
I don't know how many of thoseopportunities already readily
available.
I feel, like to the people thatthey usually are.
That kind of stuff, especiallyfor those kind of careers that

(08:21):
it is readily available for,that usually don't look like us.
Yeah, unfortunately so it's kindof like we're trying to figure
it out as we go.
which is kind of unfortunate,but I hope, as we as a community
continue to grow is a lot ofblack engineers and scientists
and like if we can start to beable to get people in and just
that way of thinking, likethat's just something I never

(08:43):
even thought about, but likecolleges, like so expensive.
Now you know what I mean.
And the thing is is that whenyou think, when I think about
college, like I, almost at acertain point I have a hard time
like recommending college tohigh school and high school
students, especially whenthey're unsure of what they're
trying to do.
And then, even with that, it'slike some parents prepare their

(09:05):
kids to go into a field thatthey may not love but will pay
the bills, you know what I meanso it's like a.
It's like a disconnect.
Do you go for something thatyou might not like but it's
going to get you financiallywhere you want to go?
Or do you pay the same amountof money sometimes like, like

(09:27):
our close amount of money to dosomething where you're not even
going to make the amount ofmoney that you pay to get the
degree you know?
Like what is that?
What does that job?

So it's kind of like, you know, if there's
not, how can?
It's like, well, can we reallyrecommend someone spending
$100,000 on an education andthey might come out making you
know a small fraction of that intheir first few years of their
career.
So I think that goes to, andthere are a couple of books that

(09:58):
I've read about applying tocollege, and there's one by Ron
Lieber and I think it's calledwhat you'll pay for the price,
or what you'll pay for college.
And then there's this otherbook by these two brothers about
and I can't I wish I would havebrought it in my office with me
but it's about advising AfricanAmerican families on helping

(10:21):
their, helping their, their,their children plan for college
and what one of the things thatthey both have in common is.
People have to ask Well, why areyou going to college?
Why are you going to college?
And I think what reallyunderscores, what should really
underscore the conversation.
So here are the questions likewhy are you going to college?

(10:41):
Are you going to collegebecause you're trying to get a
well paying job?
Are you going to collegebecause you want to make
connections?
Are you going to collegebecause it's a social thing and
it'll you know it because itlooks good like it looks good,
you know.
You know, oh, you know your sonhas a degree in this from such
and such colleges.
That's why the is that why thestudent is going to college?

(11:02):
Or is a student just reallygoing to college just to really
just stretch his or her academichorizons?
The, so I mean.
So everybody had.
Or maybe there's some otherreason why the family is
interested in pursuing theirkiddo pursuing a college
education.
But one thing I learned a longtime ago so I have a background

(11:25):
in financial planning and thenI've also worked with families
in preparing their kiddos forexams and so forth and tutoring
for nearly 20 years now and onething I've learned is that I
cannot argue with people'svalues.
So, you know, I can look atsome situations and I can say,
well, now, I wouldn't do that,like I would.

(11:47):
Just, you know, I can say, well, no, there's nowhere.
But I but I learned a long timeago I can't argue with people's
values.
So it, I mean you, I mean I'veseen people send their students
to college to major in thingsthat they could have.
You know, they could have goneto college.
Whatever they were doing, theycould have done it more
affordably in their home statesthey could have it's like it's.

(12:11):
I've seen it to where it's achoice between free and $200,000
.
And I've seen them buy pastfree and go to the $200,000.
So for those people, you know,you can't really argue with the
values for with.
For some people, like you know,I mean, how can you really?

(12:32):
I mean because we know thatthere are some professions that
don't require college education,where those professions, people
in those professions, aremaking more money than people
with and with a collegeeducation.
So that's why I say it has tobe part of a plan.
It has to be, you know, thesedegrees, the certifications, the

(12:53):
classes that students taking,these are all tools, a part of a
greater plan.
And if really people justsitting just map it out and
think about it, you know, maybe,maybe, maybe a college
education isn't appropriate forwhat that student is trying to
do.
But there has to be a plan andsometimes people are like you
know, I would say there, youknow, there may be some majors

(13:15):
that aren't.
You know, we think about majorswhere people would think that
they would have, they're goingto make money.
It would be, you know,engineering, business, medicine,
those fields.
But if a student wants topursue a major in, I'm going to
just throw something outjournalism, that or or
philosophy or something likethat.
Students really need to have aplan.

(13:39):
Okay, how are you going to usethat journalism degree?
You'd have internshipsthroughout the summers.
You need to figure out, likeyou know, talk with a student
about okay, if you get ajournalism degree, this is what
your first year is going to looklike as a, let's say, you go.
I have former students who arelocal television anchors for new
stations in in smaller, smallto midsize TV markets and that

(14:03):
pay is it's low, it's low it'slow, it's low, it's low.

Your face said it all.
I was like eh.

It's low starting out, so they need to.
I think it's helpful ifstudents I would never
discourage a student frompursuing a goal I would just say
, okay, well, now this is whatthis looks like.
And like I tell my studentsbecause I've had financial
planning conversations with mystudents and I tell them I say,

(14:34):
hey, you look like you like nicethings.
I know you like nice things andthat's okay.
So you know, based on whatyou're trying to do and you know
, by the way, this is what yourstudent loan payments are going
to look like.
Where do you plan to live?
How do you plan to live?
What do you plan to drive?
And it, I mean it's.

(14:55):
I think that's why I said Ithink it's so important for us
to really, you know, sometimeswe can get so caught up in you
know oh, you got to go to thecollege because everybody else
is going to college.
Well, you have to do whateverybody else is doing or you
don't have to do something justbecause everyone else is doing
it.
We also get caught up in inlike, oh well, if you go to
college, then guaranteed, youknow you're going to have like

(15:20):
your life is going to be likeworry free and you're not going
to ever have to be poor andstruggling, all that which we
know that it's not.

We know that's not guaranteed.
You're not going to beguaranteed a job out of college
anymore.

No, you can't.
So I think it's that's why Ithink it's important for us to
really look at this as okay, hey, maybe maybe a college degree
back in the day was a guarantee,like, hey, if you have this
degree, you can go, at least youcan go, and you know, teach.
Or you can go and do you know,you can go get a job as a, you
know, in a, in a, in a lab.

(15:49):
But things aren't like thatanymore and that's how we have
to really think about stoplooking looking at, look at the
degrees as tools and not and notthe whole plan.
We have to have a whole plan.
We really sit and talk and beintentional about what this all
looks like and really talk aboutwhat the financial aspect looks

(16:11):
like.
And it's really.
I know it's hard to discussfinancial matters with people
who've never paid as much as awater bill, so they don't
understand that like their minds.
They can't wrap their mindsaround like, okay, well, you
have this student loan paymentand it's $800 a month.
They can't.
They can't comprehend that.

(16:32):
So I would advise parents to Idon't know what kind of
conversations parents have aboutmoney.
In my family we grew up havingvery I grew up having very
converse candy conversationswith adults about money.
I remember asking my mother forsomething and she was like
Jennifer.
She said, jennifer, this is howmuch I bring home every two

(16:58):
weeks.
And you know, my mother's asemi-retired math teacher.
At the time she was a wholefull math teacher and of course
I tutored math.
So you know, we're very good,we're both very good at math.
And she was like Jennifer, youknow, and she told me how much
money she was bringing homeevery two weeks.
She told me how much the billswere.

(17:19):
She said my mortgage is this,the light bill is this, the bill
is this, the car notice is allthat.
And when I heard that and soshe told me that and I was like,
okay, well, that means theanswer is no.

Long answer to get to know.

To know, yes, but I understood why it was no.
And you know I grew up with alot, you know, with women who
were, who own their own homes.
Either they were divorced,widowed or, you know, never had
been married, but they own theirown homes.
And so I would grow up amongwomen who would talk about how

(17:55):
much it would cost to getsomething repaired or have
something maintained or so forthand so forth.
So it was, and my grandfather,you know my grandfather would
encourage me to.
He encouraged my interest inthe stock market.
So I grew up in a family thatwas that talked about money and
was very real about money.
I know everybody else isn'tlike that.

(18:17):
I had to kind of as a.
So I'm a certified financialplanner and so I spent a few
years in an office with a bunchof people who are at financial
advisors and you know we weresitting in the office and just
talk about our finances likeit's nothing.
And so I had to realize that.
I had to like realize, jennifer, you can't just ask people when
you meet them if they have lifeinsurance.
You can't just ask them.

You know so because I'm very that's a big
one too, yeah, especially in ourcommunity.

Yeah, we have to.
We have to be very candid aboutmoney and and who's gone, who's
paying what you know for thatexperience, because a lot of
times parents aren't like.
During the college applicationprocess, parents will tell their
kids oh you know, if you dowell in school, then you know
you can go to whatever collegeyou want to.

(19:05):
And I think these parents makethis promise to their kids.
You know, not having attendedcollege for 30 years or 35 years
and not realizing the cost orat all Huh.

I said or at all, or at all or at all.

And I think they think that because you know
, I think they they, and so theyfeel guilty because it's like
well, you know, we promised youthat you can go to whatever
school you wanted to go to, andso now we have to make that
happen.
I've worked with parents who'vedone that and I've observed
parents.
I had a parent call me one time.
Her daughter did very well onher her entrance exams and she

(19:45):
was like but Jennifer, likeshe's not getting any money.
And I was like well, what doyou mean?
She's not getting any money andany money offered to her.
And she was like, and I said,well, what schools is she
applying to?
And then she said, oh, theCalifornia schools.
And you know, and we're inTexas.
And I was like, well, whatabout the Texas schools?

(20:06):
Oh, they all gave her money.
And I'm like, well, and she was, but we told her that she could
go to college in California ifshe did everything she was
supposed to do.
And I'm just like and so that'skind of like, I mean that's
rough, like how do you tell akid Like I can't do?
And so that's why it's justgood to have conversations, just

(20:29):
from the beginning, like I hada convert, I had a family and
the dad was I mean, the dad wasthe dad was straight up from
from from day one.
He was straight up with hisdaughter from day one.
And you know, she, you know hewas like you're not going to
that school because I don't carewhat you do, but in two years
I'm getting, I'm going to retire.
He was like I don't care whatyou do.

(20:49):
And you know, and she, she, sheattended.
She attended a less expensiveuniversity and you know her loan
.
She may have had a few loans,but in low amounts, but but she
did OK, she came out better.
So I think we have to reallyhave that conversation about

(21:10):
money, about you know who'spaying for what, and just be and
just really think about it.
Because if you and that and thatgoes to your original question
how can, how can we in goodconscience, Ask high school
graduates to go to college whenyou know they may pursue a

(21:34):
degree?
Forget about, are you going togo to the more expensive school
or the less expensive school?
It's your original question isare we going to go to college at
all?
And that's why I think it'simportant to really talk with
them and see what they want todo.
You know, because if you havethem, if they just go to college

(21:55):
because someone told them to goto college, then they're not
going to be serious.
And I mean they can.
And let's say, you know, andmaybe maybe they need to work
for a little while to decidewhat they want to do.
I've seen students, I've seenpeople work for a little while
and then they return, you know,and then they go to school.

(22:15):
When, if they choose to go toschool and and they do well,
they I mean, they're moreserious and they do well.
But we need to.
I would say, if you're going towrite a tuition check, if
anyone is going to go to collegeday one, they need to walk on
campus with a plan.
Now is the plan going to changeAbsolutely?
But you need to have a plan andyou need to talk it out and

(22:39):
think of other ways.
The degree is just a tool.
Are there other tools that canhelp the?
You know, that student reachesher goals?
I mean, and that's why andthat's.
And often I and I know somepeople are like oh well, you
know, my teenager won't tell meanything and they won't talk to
me.
They won't listen to me, findother people in their lives that

(23:04):
they're listening to, like theyare listening to someone and
not their little friends.
But not because they're just aslost.
But I would say the the, nottheir friends, but certainly
their other teachers, mentors,family members that the students

(23:29):
that the kiddos respect.
Have them talk to them to helpthem to find their way.

I think you said a lot in that, answering that
question.
I think one of the biggestthings that you said is like
making a plan and knowing whatyou're gonna do.
What's your degree Causesometimes I feel like we I've
seen people go after theirdegree because they wanna work a
job and then they realize inthe middle of that degree that
the degree that they're gettingis not gonna help you work that

(23:58):
job.
You don't even need this degree.
Even though I had a financialadvisor on it, he was like you
don't need a degree in financeto do this, you just need a
certification.

He's like hold up.

You mean I don't have to, oh man.
So it's so many times, likewhen you say, like, make a plan.
I feel, like in our culture.
Specifically, a lot of thepeople when I was in school, a
lot of people that I've seenwith the plans, did not look
like me.
They had plans down to the T,they knew what they were gonna
do they knew what their degreewas.

(24:29):
They weren't messing around,they weren't going to discover.
They came in to get theirdegree, they graduated, they
worked for this company, thiscompany, this company.
And even you talking about thepeople in the newsroom it's like
the small newsroom, like if youhave a plan, you can work in a
small newsroom for three to fiveyears and then like, all right

(24:50):
now I have something to go pitchto a big network or something,
or learn the skills that I needto be a producer.
Now my pay is going from maybelike 40,000 to 80,000.
It's just like having that plan, just like really pushing in
such a different position.
And I think it's so important totalk about it, like earlier,
especially in our community, andactually have community where

(25:13):
it's like even though, like Ithink I talked about it before
like my parents knew I was goingto college, but they really
didn't know how to prepare me togo to college.

You know what I mean.

Like I didn't really know what to expect.
There wasn't anybody I couldtalk to like, hey, what's
college?
Like you know, what I mean.
It's like you go and you figureit out and that's that kind of
cultural knowledge that we lose,that other like cultures tend
to have to where.
This is what college is like.
I know you're going to getdistracted, I know you're going
to party, but this, this, this,this, this and you want to do
this and we miss a lot of that.

(25:46):
And I just feel like we as acommunity need to work harder
and get in that back andproperly preparing Cause it's
like you've been hearing youtalk about it and I've been at
school for a long time.
It seems like like whoa, likehave a plan, wow, like that's
crazy, like a plan that's great,but yeah, so, like a lot of
that stuff, you said like Itotally, I totally am with you

(26:06):
and a lot of times sometimes youdon't even need a degree and
you go, you spend 60, 70, 80grand on a degree and then you
say, oh, I want to, I want towrite for a blog, and it's like,
oh, you didn't need that degree, huh.

Yeah, I mean it's, yeah, it's, and even if
you and even I would say that apart of the plan, because you
said they were, because youtalked about the advisor who
realized that they didn't haveto study finance, and you talked
about how you know the peopleyou had gone to school with who
don't look like us, had a planand they went in.
They had a plan, they went inand got their degree and move,

(26:44):
move, move.
And then even like, if you dogo work in a newsroom, like,
okay, well, I can stay here forthree to five years and I picked
up these skills and then I canmove on and do this next thing.
That's why it's so important tohave a plan.
But also I would say, you know,if you have a degree, you know,
often people have thesearguments about which is better

(27:04):
a trade or a degree, and why notboth?
Why can't you do both?
Why you know, if you're able todo both, you know, do both.
And so that's why we have toreally, we have to really think
about stuff.
But I think also we have toremember that we have to be
intentional about these things.

(27:25):
That's just thank you, thatjust because we are, just
because our kiddos are going tomaybe a private school or a
school in an affluentneighborhood.
We have to understand thatthat's not enough, like it's not

(27:47):
enough, for sometimes we thinkthat just because that school
name is on that diploma, that,or just because we go to a
school with more resources thanschools that you know, or like a
Title I school, you know,parents might think, okay, well,
they're gonna have it made, allI have to do is just, you know,

(28:08):
drop them off and they're gonnado just as well as their white
counterparts, which is not thecase, because what they don't
realize is that their whitecounterparts are hiring me
because they have these people,have tutors, and they're not
going to tell you and theyprobably have college.

(28:29):
I'm not a college consultant.
I don't advise people ondegrees and schools and so forth
.
I create the conditions to helpthem to be able to realize
those aspirations, but I don'tadvise in that way.
But people have collegeadvisors as well, and so we have
to be very intentional about,very intentional through the

(28:51):
whole educational process.
You know when the child, youknow, starts, you know, before
that child is in kindergarten.
We have to be very intentionalabout you know.
Of course we want to beintentional about school
selection but we want to beintentional about the education
that the student is getting andwhat kind of opportunities that

(29:12):
student might be exposed to.

Yeah, I love that word intentional because I was
speaking about it like actuallyearlier today, thinking about in
my career how it's times whereI haven't been intentional and
just being intentional about theskills that you want to learn
and the things that you takeaway can keep you from working
in the same position for 10years, versus working in a

(29:37):
position for two years and thengetting elevated to another
position and learning what youneed to do there for three years
and then get elevated toanother position.
So I love the intentionality,especially when it comes to that
.
This is a question that you'veheard me ask before.

Okay, okay, and.

I'm very curious to get your take on it.

Okay.

Because I talked about it on another episode when
I bought my house.
Okay, I had to take a class.

Okay.

To learn about mortgages.

Yes.

Now we have 18 year old kids who probably ain't
never had a credit card youtalked about never paying a bill
signing up to possibly take outa student loan that, at the end
of the day, is probably gonnabe as much as the first house I
purchased.

Right right, right right.

So should there be a class for people who are
considering going to college andtake before they get that
student loan?
Should we be putting them inclass?
Because, like back in the day,like we were told, like my dream
was like everything I heardgrowing up you go to school, you
get your degree, you get out,your life is great, you got a

(30:44):
job, you're gonna get paid 20times more than like that's what
I was told Like straight up,like that was the narrative.
Go to school, get an education,get a good job, you get a
pension, you retire, you be thatain't like that, no more.
No, it's not so student loans isas far less of a guarantee.
So, with that risk involved, do18 year old students, before

(31:05):
they sign that student loanpaper, should they need to take
financial classes so that theyproperly understand what they're
doing on?

social.
They need to take classes, notjust financially.
They need to take classes on,you know, the academic demands
and the social demands ofcollege, because all that's
gonna, because if you can getthat academic and that social
piece right, you might not bethere as long as you can save

(31:33):
money.
So, yeah, so to your point,when you buy a house, you had to
take a class.
And you know another thingthat's interesting when we buy
houses, we think about all theprofessionals we have to enlist
to before we can get to thatclosing table.
We have to have an inspector,we have to have a, an appraiser,

(31:53):
they have to have this, youhave to have somebody come out
and do a survey.
A title company is involved.
And then we have the mortgagebroker, the mortgage company, we
have the realtor, I know, andthen the people who teach the
home buying education classes,and I know I missed some other
folks in there.
And you know, to get to that,the closing table, yeah, I think

(32:14):
.
Yeah, when I think about myhome, I'm sure that I'm sure
that I have students whosecollege educations, the cost of
their college educations, areeclipsing what my home costs.
Yeah, we do, we need to have afull, we need to have.
We need, for we need to havehonest conversations and honest

(32:35):
classes with students about whatit takes to go to college and
really about the financialaspect.
There's a I used to we had a.
There's a thing I used toparticipate and even I
participated in Houston calledMoney Live, and at Money Live,
money Live was a real worldmoney simulation and students
would, would you know, choosetheir, their educations, their

(32:59):
loans, the car they were driving, their where they lived, and
that helped them to have anunderstanding of what that money
was like.
Because, from what I'veobserved about my students, many
of my students are very tightwhen it comes to their own money
.
They are, they are willing tospend left and right when it
comes to their student, theirparents' money, but let those

(33:19):
students get a job and they areextra tight with their money and
and that's what we have to.
So, if we were to think aboutwhat that would look like, we
need to have them and in fact, Iparticipated in and I actually
helped write this program for anorganization called Skills for
Living and we it was a realworld program and we had them

(33:43):
choose careers and you know,educations and you know, and
then where they were living.
It was a.
It was a similar thing withMoney Live, but this particular
event was like a was a class, itwas a summer long class and we
also introduced the idea ofincome taxes.
And that's what?
Yeah, we, we need to have that,we need to have them, we need

(34:05):
to have them go through andlearn.
Like you know, begin with theend in mind.
Okay, so, if you say you want topursue this kind of profession,
then then this is what thislooks like financially and okay,
and this is this is.
These are your income taxes.
And after you pay your incometaxes, these are your bills.
And oh, this is the school youwanted to attend.

(34:26):
Okay, so, this is so becauseyou, because you didn't, because
of you know whatever, maybe youhad a scholarship, maybe you
didn't, but this is how much youknow you're going to pay and
this is how, this is what yourlife is going to look like.
We need to have them.
And then we need to say, okay,well, now, what are some things
you can do to improve yourfinancial?

(34:47):
What are some things you can doat age 15 to help improve your
life?
When you're a 25 years of ageand you know, then I think
that's when we need to talk withthem about okay, well, here's
some things you can do if youwant to go to college to defray
the cost of college.
There's, you know, there's dualcredit.
There are advanced placementclasses.
There are, you know, there arescholarships.

(35:10):
Okay, so what do you have to doto get these scholarships?
And so we have people, you know, because what I'm having a hard
time with this summer is, oreven just I would say, like you
know, post COVID or not post,you know, the onset of the COVID
pandemic what I'm having.
I am struggling with helping mystudents to understand that what

(35:31):
has helped them to besuccessful in high school will
not help them to be successfulin college, because their grades
do not reflect what they reallyknow.
And there have been studiesthat say that.
You know, we know, we know thatwe have in America, we have, a
small percentage of students whoare reading at or above grade

(35:55):
level.
We have a small percentage ofstudents.
It's not even I don't.
I have to look at the numbers.
You can look at the theAmerica's report card and pull
those numbers, but I know inTexas it's like maybe, maybe,
maybe, 20%, maybe, or maybe it'slow, it's it's 90 and 50%
reading above, at or above gradelevel.

(36:18):
Same thing with math.
They're not where they shouldbe with math.
The class of the current classthat I think it's class of 2026,
maybe in Texas Over half ofthem.
When they took the US history,the state exam for their US

(36:39):
history in the eighth grade,over half of them failed that
exam.
So, yeah, so, and so we knowthese numbers, but no parent
believes that their child is inthat number, and so there's this
big disconnect when they getready to take these.
Scott, look, we talk aboutfinances and a big way to help

(37:03):
pay for college.
A big way is still, theseschools are still giving money
based on test scores.
They're still they're givingmoney based on class-ranked GPA
activities.
Things are kind of a littlemore holistic now, but these
schools are still relying onthese test scores, and I mean
the thing is, the tests have notchanged, but the students have

(37:24):
changed, and it's taking longerto prepare students for exams.
It's taking longer and it'staking more examples.
It's just taking more toprepare them.
So we really need to, richard,we really need to get real with

(37:45):
what are the financial demandsand then what are the academic
requirements, because you can goto college and if you're like a
great reader, you can doanything.
You can get a scholarship andthen you may not be able to pay
for everything, but you won'thave as much as due loans At the
.
Consequently, students who youhave, students who are starting

(38:07):
college who are not academicallyprepared and their schools are
not being honest with them aboutthe lack of preparedness, and
so the students will go tocollege and then they may not
complete their degree and sothey graduate with I mean, they
leave with all their studentloan debt, but they don't have a

(38:28):
certificate or a degree, sothey're going to have to go get
a low wage job and they have alow wage job, low wage job, but
they have like a mountain ofstudent loan debt.
What is?
this so we have to be very so.
We have to look at and we'replanning for college.
Yes, there should be a class onwhat the finances look like,
absolutely.
There also needs to be a classon what are the academic

(38:50):
requirements.
And then also there needs to bea class on, like you know, your
social life and yoursocialization, because many
students, you know, haven't gonethrough the pandemic and so
much of their lives centeraround social media that they
have a hard time, they strugglewith interpersonal skills and

(39:12):
that's such a big part ofcollege and somebody needs to
teach them those things.
We can't get mad at students fornot knowing what they haven't
been taught, and so we really.
So when you talk about, hey, weneed to have a class that you
know, hey, when you buy thathouse, you have all these
professionals.
When you go to college, youneed to have all these

(39:33):
professionals, not just yourparents, not just your parents
as a God, because if you teenshey, if there were anything like
me, I wouldn't try and listento my mama when I was their age.
Okay, even though my mother wentto college, and right.
So you know we have to, we needto think about, we need to
think about a plan financially,we need to think about a plan

(39:55):
like academically, you know likesocially and you know
interpersonally.
And then we also and whatshould drive that plan?
What should drive thatinstruction is why are you going
to college?
What do you want to do withyour life after high school?
Because it may not even benecessary to go to college.

Yeah, I remember I had someone, an ex's mother.
She wanted me to go back andget a master's degree, just for,
like, like, continue education.
You could also network.
I'm like I can network for notpaying $120,000 to go get a
master's degree.
Like, I guarantee you it'sotherwise a network, but once
you have that money, once youhave your why, you know that you

(40:42):
want to go to school.
Now it's a little bit harder,right for minorities to get into
school because you know theSupreme Court just struck down
affirmative action.
What are some things that ourkids can do to help increase
their chances of getting into agood school?

What are?

their options now .

So when they think about a good school, you
have to think about ask why isthe school good and for whom is
the school good?
And you know.
So when we talk about sosometimes you know people will
look at schools and they'll say,oh well, you know, this school
is number one based on US NewsWorld Report, this school is a

(41:23):
top eight school and it's like,okay, well now, why is it a top
eight school?
Okay, well, it's because it hasit's very selective, it has a
low acceptance rate.
It also may have a large number, a great amount of alumni
giving.
It may also have, you know,students.
The students in that class mayhave a certain, although

(41:47):
students may have really highstatistics like high GPA, high
class rank, high test scores, sothat those schools may be
ranked, you know, in somethinglike US News and World Report,
number five or number 10, or youknow they're ranked highly
because of things that havenothing to do with why that
student wants to go to college.
So when we talk about a goodschool or a top school, you need

(42:09):
to think about why is thisschool good for me?
So that's number one.
So we talk about studentsgetting into top schools.
We really need to.
You know I mean so, especiallywith the affirmative action
being struck down.
So affirmative action, as faras I understand, hadn't been

(42:30):
administered Like when we thinkof affirmative action, people of
color getting special, gettingmore preferential treatment in
the admissions process it hasn'tbeen in effect in like
California in a while.
I don't think it's been ineffect at the university from
which I graduated or even someof these schools in Texas.

(42:52):
So it's not.
I mean, let's be clear, this isa sweeping case and it's going
to affect large numbers ofstudents and it's even going to
spill into corporate America andyou know other aspects of our
society that's been spilled intocorporate America already.
Oh wow, what have you?

seen Law firms, like I've seen some law firms
get pushed back because ofprograms that they have that are
selected for minorities andthey're saying like, no, that's
not right, you can't do that,you can't.
So it's starting it's alreadystarting to spill in.

Oh, wow, so in a while.
So we have to make sure.
So because of that, whoo.

That's a lot right.

It is a lot.
And I would say well, you know,black people should go to go to
law school and start their ownlaw firms.
But I fully recognize thatentrepreneurship is not for
everyone.

It is not for everybody.
That's very true.
It is not for everyone.

It is not for everyone, so when people House
of culture.
Yeah, it's not yeah.
And when people say, you know,we got to own our own businesses
and I'm like, yeah, but it'snot for everyone.
No matter what your culturalbackground is, it's not for
everyone.
I would say that we talk aboutgetting into good schools.

(44:16):
We have to think of studentsagain.
They need to go back to thatplan.
What is the school that's goingto help me to reach my goals
and start researching early?
What are their requirements?
What are these schools lookingfor?
And really, I mean I would saythe easy I would say if parents
don't know, or if students don'tknow exactly what they want to

(44:36):
do, or parents are like, well, Idon't know what my child wants
to do, what they can do thatwill help them to be successful,
no matter what they decide, youknow now or later on, is that
they are strong readers.
They, if you can read, you cando anything.
If you can read, you can doanything.

If they banned the books we should be reading,
but that's a whole nother story.
That's a whole, nother story.

But you know what's so crazy?
You know there is.
I mean book banning, of course,is an issue Like I couldn't
imagine not being it, becausethose books that are on that
list are books that I've readwhen I was a kid.
But the thing is many of ourkids don't understand what

(45:26):
they're reading period andparents have to.
You know, if you can, if yourstudent, no matter what your
student decides if they can read, they can do anything.
So when it comes to gettinginto a good college or the
college that is good for them,they need to look at the

(45:47):
requirements and they need toresearch like okay, well, how
much is this going to cost?
How do we pay for this?
Are there scholarships?
Are there ways to you know howcan we make this happen?
And really, you know, schoolsare still looking at, so we look
at schools.
Schools are still considering aclass rank.

(46:07):
They're considering grade pointaverage.
They're also considering therigor of a student's coursework.
Don't get it twisted.
Everybody knows that a numberone in the, you know, the
student who graduates at the topof his or her class at one
school can have a radicallydifferent educational experience

(46:31):
from a valedictorian at anotherschool.
And we have to make sure thatstudents have to take, like,
take rigorous courses.
And you know, look, thesecolleges know what high schools
are offering these high schoolsknow these colleges know which

(46:53):
high schools are producingstudents who are academically
prepared for college.
If you want to know, if youwant to know what schools
produce students ready forcollege, go to their college
nights.
Look at the colleges that arethere at the college nights.
I had a friend who's a recruitertell me this.
We went to this.

(47:14):
I was volunteering as an alumnato help recruit for my
university and that's what hetold me.
He said look at the school.
And we were at this one school.
It's a medical, it's a medicalmagnet school here in Houston
area or here in Houston, andmultiple Ivy League schools were

(47:35):
there striving to recruit.
And then, but then you haveother schools, like I've been to
other college fairs in areasthat are, you know, affluent and
public schools, and I'm lookingat these schools and they're
not Ivy League schools.
And you know, in fact and I'mnot casting aspersions on the
military, but there was amilitary there, not military

(47:57):
academies, which that's a wholenothing.
Oh, getting into the militaryacademies, that's like having an
Ivy League education.
It's, it's the, it's the rigorof the school.
So students need to.
So how do students get into topcolleges?
They need to take, they need totake as rigorous of a course

(48:18):
load as they can take.
They need to get the highestgrades they can get and have a
class highest class rate theycan get.
Now here's the thing you stillhave.
There still has to be a balance.
There still has to be a balance.
Students need to be able to be,they need to be able to be kids
and enjoy school and enjoy theirlives and their families and
their friends.
So I'm not a, I'm not abeliever in students taking,

(48:41):
like all, advanced classes.
I think that's too much, butsome students can handle it.
I think students need to takewhat they can handle.
So you have.
So you have the classes, thegrades, the class rank.
Students also need to preparefor PSAT, sat, act, and they
need to take those examsseriously.
That's a component of collegeadmissions and college

(49:03):
scholarships.
So that's the academic bucket.
Then we go to the activitiesbucket with leadership.
Students need to have, you know, participate in activities
where they can take the lead incertain experience, certain
clubs, certain activities, andthen they also should be doing

(49:24):
community service, and if theycan work, that'd be great as
well.

Yeah, it's a lot of stuff that you got to do in
order to get ready for collegeand when I graduated from high
school, I applied to one college.
I kind of like, just I'm goingto one school and one school
only and like in retrospect Iwas probably really, really dumb
.
I knew my grades were good andI knew I had like that last year

(49:50):
of school I was like, oh crap,I like I need to join some clubs
and stuff to.
And I kind of knew that and Iwas, but I kind of really just
threw my cards on the table LikeI just want to go to this one
school.
Thankfully I got in, but youknow that's that's probably not
the best way to go about it.
And, to be honest, the nextthing I wanted to ask you about
if I was to, if I was goinggoing back to being 18 years old

(50:13):
again and I was consideringgoing to college, something that
I did not consider.
And I didn't even go on a tourbecause a lot of people I had I
had seen people go on the tour,so I would have considered that
HBCU.
I really didn't understand thesignificance of HBCUs when I was
considering colleges.
And now especially witheverything that's going on.

(50:34):
What do kids need to understand?
And considering the HBCU Allright.

So I'm glad you asked that we have a.
I'm working with a colleague toput on a, a market missions
event, and we're going to inviteHBCU so historically Black
College and universities.
We're going to inviterepresentatives from those
universities and we're alsogoing to invite representatives
from PWIs or predominantly whiteinstitutions.
Our students need to understandthat HBCUs have a.

(51:05):
There's a rich tradition,tradition of a rich culture in
eight from HBCUs.
I did not go to an HBCU.
I graduated from a PWI.
But if it had not been forHBCUs I would not have graduated
from a PWI.
Because because my, mygrandparents graduated from
HBCUs, my mother, my aunts, someof my relatives graduated from

(51:29):
HBCUs and I mean, in fact, thefirst time we ever went on a
college campus and had someonemove in it was at an HBCU.
So it was.
But but I do know that if Ihadn't, I do know that if it
wasn't for the foundations thatand the educations that they got

(51:49):
from those HBCUs, I wouldn'thave gone to.
I wouldn't have gone to, Iwouldn't have, I wouldn't have
gone to college because you know, I had, you know, at HBC.
I would say that students needto look into a Black, students
need to look into HBCUs and lookat what they have to offer.

(52:11):
Again, think about what do youwant to major in, what do you
want to study?
Because those professors, youknow, when I went to a PWI now
let me be clear I had I hadprofessors who cared about me,
but I don't feel like I had aprofessor who cared about me
until maybe my, maybe my second,maybe the end of my second year

(52:33):
in college.
But you know, my sister startedout at an HBCU and she missed
class one day and the professorwas like where were you?
Where were you, ms Ledwin?
We missed you.
You know, I never, I never gotthat at my.
I knew I can't even imaginethat.

Like at college, someone saying like you weren't
here, that's what?
How?
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

So it's a.
It's a sometimes people youknow I'll say that I'll talk
about Xavier.
Xavier has a program.
Tiny Xavier University in NewOrleans is number one.
It is the number one college inproducing, in sending African
American students to medicalschool and they are so, again,

(53:20):
intentional the word of the dayis intentional.
Xavier is so intentional abouthelping those students.
You know, maybe they have someacademic gaps and they help
those students.
You know, hang on until theycan hold on and ultimately, you

(53:40):
know, they're able to besuccessful.
They have programs.
I mean HBCUs are thoseprofessors are there and they
want you to be successful.
So they're, they have programsto help the students be
successful.
When you go to these PWIs,particularly large PWIs, you
know we have weed out coursesand and they will tell you like,
if you can't get a job, youcan't get a job.

(54:00):
We have weed out courses andthey will tell you like, if you
can't make it in, you know,whatever it is biology one or
calculus or what have you, youknow.
Then you know this STEM fieldisn't for you.
And I just remember at my PWIwe had students who were top.
They went to a specializedengineering high school and they

(54:24):
went to.
I think it was like seven ofthem that started with me and
only one of them graduated witha degree in engineering and that
and that young lady actuallywent on to pursue a degree in
law, so she's actually a lawyernow.

That's such a shift.

It is, but we had.
But I went to high school withpeople who were, you know,
average students and they wentand studied engineering at I
know at least one HBCU andthey're practicing engineers now
and it's so, it's so I wouldsay that HBCUs are, aside from
the you know like it's just like.
You know it's just black,everything which is which is

(55:04):
awesome, it's beautiful.
Yes, they that the the academicaspect is.
You know there is a there is.
The environment is morenurturing.
Now I mean, yes, is that?
Yes, is the?
Are some?
Are there some administrativeissues?
Yes, are there someadministrative issues that

(55:25):
students are going to experienceat an HBCU that they probably
won't experience at an PWI,probably, but yeah, maybe.
But I would say I would tellthem to give HBCUs a serious
look, because they want you tobe successful and you know, when
those college, when thosecompanies come to recruit at an

(55:46):
HBCU, they are looking for tohire African American Applicants
, the graduates.
But if you go, when you go toPWI, those recruiters are not
going there to recruit AfricanAmericans.
Because I remember having job.
I remember having a jobinterview and you know it was
over the phone and this isbefore social media and

(56:06):
everything.
And and you know, you know wehave a, you know it was on the
phone, my white voice and thepre interview.
And then I showed up to theinterview and I have always
looked like this.
I have always been black andtheir faces just dropped their
faces dropped when I walked inthere.
So I don't think that your youknow applicants are going to

(56:30):
experience that at a P at anHBCU, because those corporations
know who they're looking for.
So I would definitely say lookat the HBCUs when they have
college tours, go see thecollege tours.
Sometimes my students get hungup with oh this campus is like

(56:53):
you know, it's not as shiny like, the dorms aren't as new, and
da da, da da.
I get that.
But you know, really, look atwhat, look look at the academics
, look at the supports for thestudents, because that's going
to make a bigger difference thanwhether you know you're,
whether you have a brand new,you know recreational center on

(57:15):
campus.

Yeah, my the school that I finished my degree
in my bachelor's degree in whenI left a lot of that money that
I was paying went to newfacilities and it looks like a
completely different school.
Now I didn't get to enjoy anyof that stuff, but that's a.
That's a whole other subject,but I went to a PWI.
And the thing that I doappreciate about being at a PWI
is that I mean, I don't.

(57:42):
I don't know if it would even beconsidered a PWI.
It was just a melting pot.
It was like a little bit ofeverything there, and, as
someone who grew up around adifferent, a lot of different
cultures.
I think that's a really goodthing.
I didn't think about it as muchbecause I was like I'm used to
this, like it's differentcultures, yeah, yeah, but.

(58:04):
But I think for a second Iwonder where the balance is,
just because, like, I've talkedto people and I had never, had
never crossed my mind to, I wasinterviewing somebody and he
said he went to college and forthe first time it was like a mix
of people and he was like hehad never really been around
white people.
I never thought about that froma black point of view, like not
being around white peoplebecause everybody.

(58:27):
So, yeah, like thinking aboutgoing to like a PWI if you've
never been.
Like being able to interactwith the rest of like what other
parts of society looks likelearning how to move, learning
how things work.
I think that's very important.
But at the same time, like I'msaying like if I could go back
in history, I don't know, Iwould probably be on a drum line

(58:49):
or something.
I'd be at the halftime shows,like I don't know.
I hope, when I have kids andthey ready to go to school, that
one of them want to go to aHBCU.
So I could just be like yeah,baby, you know.
Just be proud, Like yeah, let'sdo it.
Like you living daddy's dreamnow.

And their friends gonna be like.
Their friends gonna be like.
Is that your dad?

I'm gonna have the shirt on, like the big
sweatshirt like yeah.
I'm here like proud HBCU dad,like that's gonna be me, that
could be my future.
I don't know.

Yeah, it's, yeah, I think that's awesome, I
think I think we, I think theyneed to explore it, even though,
even if, even though they now,you do have some people who who
look down on, you do have folkswho look down on HBCUs.
You have black people look downon HBCUs thinking, oh, those
are just party schools and da dada, every school can be a party
school.

(59:46):
Every school is a party school,every school is a party school
and you know, I often find thatpeople who look down on HBCUs
they probably didn't go tocollege, so I would be.

I mean.

Jennifer Ledwith (01:00:00):
I mean that's what I observed with, because
the black people I know who whenI'm in the south, so the many
of the black people I know whoare educated were educated at
HBCUs, so so I think they'reworth.
I think it's worth looking atthem and again going back to
what that family values, whatthat family wants from a college

(01:00:21):
education, and just going,because sometimes students get
so you know, it's easy forstudents to get so caught up in
what their neighbor is doinglike people will call me and
they'll say, oh well, you know,I want you to.
You know, prepare Johnny forthis test.
And I'm like, oh well, how'dyou find out about me?
Oh well, the neighbor, you knowyou prepare the neighbor for
the test and he scored this andso I'm expecting the same for

(01:00:42):
Johnny.
And then I work with Johnny andI'm like I'm like.
Johnny is not.
Johnny is.
Johnny is not giving everythingthat he needs to give.
You know, like the neighbor didso and I saw I say that to say
that people have to be honestabout what they want, not what

(01:01:03):
you, not what your neighborwants, like what.
So a lot of times in schoolswhen you have students who go to
you, have black kids who go toschools that are predominantly
it's not a lot of us there, theymay be the only ones there,

(01:01:29):
they may have.
A lot of times they'll be like,ooh, why do you want to go to
that school?
And da, da, da.
And they have to be very strongwithin themselves and say, well
, there's value in going toschool with people who look like
me.
I mean, I'm not saying thatthey should rule out a PWI, but
I'm saying that they have to goback to okay, what's the plan?

(01:01:52):
Why do we want to go to collegeand adhere to that and not
worry about what everybody elseis doing?

Richard Dodds (01:02:04):
I think that's so well said.
You just really everythingyou've taken from a holistic
point of view.
Before we close this down, Iwant to talk a little bit about
your company, scholar.

Ready.

What made you start that?

Okay, so I graduated, from the time I was a
junior in high school to thetime I was a junior in college.
I was a junior for over 30scholarships and I graduated
from college.
Consequently, I graduated fromcollege with only $1,000 in
student loan debt.
Yeah, my education at the time.

(01:02:41):
Thank you the sticker price.
So I was an out of statestudent because I was like I'm
getting away.
I was like I've been going tothe same school with these same
people for 12 years.
I want to get away.
And you know, as soon as Ibought a house, I bought a house
right behind my own middleschool.

I was like I'm going to get away.
There you go oh there you go.
I'm going to say when.

A way to come back.
I miss you guys.
It's not that good over there.

When a way to come back.

And we, and so I said, and I knew I wanted to
go away.
I knew the only way I was goingto be able to go away to school
is if I'd apply for a scholar.
I earned scholarships becausemy mother made at the time.
She was a single parent and shemade too much money to qualify
for and she wasn't getting childsupport, and she made too much

(01:03:32):
money to qualify for financialaid and not enough money to
write two checks to collegebecause I have a twin sister and
so I you know, so I applied.
I had.
What worked for me is that I am, first of all, I'm incredibly
persistent.
I am incredibly persistent,very persistent.
I'm very persistent and I wouldwrite essays and I'm a very good

(01:03:57):
writer, but I work at it.
And also I had good test scores, and so I just applied, and
applied, and applied, and myparents didn't pay for me to go
to school.
I don't have, I didn't have anathletic scholarship.
I am more math league thanathlete any day of the week.
And so I graduated with only$1,000 and soon loan debt.

(01:04:20):
And look, richard, the reason Igot, the reason I had student
loan debt, is because I wantedto buy plane tickets and not,
and not even.
It wasn't even related tofinding a job.
I had a boyfriend and I wantedto.
I wanted to, I wanted to fly.
I was done riding a bus, so sothat's why.
I had $1,000.
I tell my students not to dothat, but hey.

I hope it was worth it.

It was worth it.
In, in, in, in, in life lessons.
It was worth it.
It was worth it.
Okay, all right, it was worthit in that aspect.
But, and you know, when I Ithought I didn't realize how odd
that was to graduate, to havean education with a price of

(01:05:10):
$64,000 and graduate with only,and not even needing students.
I need those loans, so, and soI decided to start a company to
help my students to to do thesame thing.
I did, so I, I started with.
I started, I said I want tohelp students write essays.
And then what I realized is thatbut then, you know, I told my

(01:05:31):
auntie, I'm starting a business,I'm, I'm, you know, I'm going
to be tutoring and I'm going tobe preparing students for
college.
And all she heard was tutoring.
And she told her co-workersdaughter.
She said, or she, she told herco-worker oh, my little niece is
tutoring, you need help withmath?
Oh yeah, call my niece.
I had never, never, planned ontutoring math, never.

(01:05:52):
But I've been doing algebra.
At that point, I have beendoing every algebra every year
of my life since I startedtaking algebra and I tutored her
and she did really well.
She was one of the few studentsin her freshman class to pass
her state math assessment thatyear and so I just started
working more with math.
And then I started realizingthat my students, I started

(01:06:16):
realizing that exams were agateway to scholarships.
It was a gateway for me, so Iput started preparing students
for exams and then eventuallythe essay writing business
started coming and in my essaywriting class I'm so proud of my
students from the essay writingclass, my students.
I had two students to graduatein 2021 and they're on four
rides to a school here inHouston full academic rides.

(01:06:40):
I've had other students getthrough.
I've had students score perfectscores on the math sections of
the SAT.
One of those students is atFordham University in New York
on a full ride.
Her sister, who I tutored inmath, is at Princeton.
I prepared her for I preparedboth of them for math SAT.
So I've been able to.
It's just so and it's, you know, it's it's.

(01:07:05):
The work is hard and it'sgetting harder because they
don't have what they needbecause of the learning
disreference from COVID, andit's also hard because I'm
having to explain to them.
You know they're like MsJennifer, I don't understand.
They really do not understand,like why just showing up and

(01:07:28):
breathing is not enough and Ihave to push them, and I have to
push them harder and I have tohold their hands a little more,
because they're used to justlike showing up and being polite
and breathing and getting agrade.
And I'm like now look, yourparents have hired me to do a
job, they've hired me to producesome results.

(01:07:51):
So we have, we have to do thisuntil it's done.
But then you know, and sometimesI'll get to at the end of a
very long stretch of workingwith students, like maybe the
end of a semester or somethingand I'll say I'm a certified
financial planner, maybe Ishould just do more of that.

(01:08:11):
And then I get these phonecalls and they're like Ms
Jennifer, I got this scholarship.
Ms Jennifer, I got this testscore.
And I'm like all right, I'll doit again.

And so here I am, you're stuck.

And here I am like 18, 19 years in and it's
just, it's so gratifying.
It's very hard work I work with.
I started working with middleschool students and helping them
with their literacy and theirmath skills because I look at
what works for, I look at whatworked for me, I look at what

(01:08:45):
worked for my students who wereable to, who are doing well, and
the main thing is that we'reall readers, we're strong
readers and if you can read, youcan do anything.
And that's where I am in mycareer.
I'm striving to push these kidsto be better readers and better

(01:09:08):
writers.
Because even when you know, likeyou said, you go to college,
get your degree life is going towork out.
I mean, it's going to work outthe lies, the lies, the lies,
and you know people well meaninglies.
And but you know, richard, thething about reading is that when

(01:09:29):
students can read and absorband understand information for
themselves, they can do thingsthat people told them that they
couldn't do.
And I know that that's been mycase and I know I've experienced
that before.
And you know what's the pointof an education, why you know,

(01:09:51):
parents want most parents wanttheir children to do better than
they did, and, as black people,I would think that that would
be about attaining a greaterdegree of freedom, and the
freedom comes through reading,because when you can read, you

(01:10:14):
can do anything.

That's so beautiful.
I really enjoyed talking to you.
Thank you for everything You'rewelcome, thank you.

Thank you for having me.
It's still talking black.

Again, I would like to thank Jennifer for
coming on the show.
If you'd like to find out moreinformation about her or her
company, scholar Ready, thatinformation will be available in
the show notes.
Still Talking Black is a CrownCulture and Media LFC production
.
If you want to find out moreabout the show, you can find
that at stilltalkingblackcom.
New episodes will be availableon streaming on YouTube, apple

(01:10:51):
Podcasts and Spotify or whereveryou get your podcast from.
Channel one is still up andavailable on any of the
streaming podcast platforms thatthey were previously.
I'm planning on coming out withthese weekly, so I hope to see
you right here, wherever youlisten, wherever you watch, next
week.
Until then, keep talking.

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